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KATO: All Rentals. REPLOGLE: Okay. CLARKSON: I'd Just like to ask whether it's just a thought that occurred tome that projects like this which I think are perfectly fine. But is there any danger that they're going to facilitate the conversion of existing rental properties into short term vacation rentals or in other words, is the reason that people need this housing the fact that they can't find rentals and what is the reason they can't find rentals elsewhere? I'm just curious what the dynamics of the market are. KATO: Well, typically I think you find studies that show that those family's households in the lower incomes are actually paying a high percentage of their income for rent and I think the target really is thirty percent(30%) of your income. For a lot of low-income families, they're paying like 50% of their income for rent and so that I would imagine that people are going to want to move into our project because it's a nice project but it's also more affordable for them. That's what we find with a lot of our seniors. In terms of any other kind of tenure, but to point out that this is State property and the State at this point is not letting the state property be converted to fee. So, if you want to use it at all for residential, we have to use it as a rental. CLARKSON: Thank you. KERN: If I may add to Commissioner's Clarkson's question. As far as the short-term vacation rentals for the non-conforming use certificates on the East side, which is basically all Ham5kua through Hilo through Ka'Ci there's around four-hundred (400) of those in total. If you look at the housing numbers that are needed projected over the next 5 years, they're in the close to 13,000 for affordable housing so it's Just huge and I think,what we've seen is a lack of units, a lack of starts, a lack of housing really being built at any type of level, but the demands still there. So, I think they're really separated from each other on there's obviously a small component with anything related to the use of a home, so the short-term vacation rentals while effects the market. I believe based on the current law that's in place and the fact that we're not doing more of those it's a very, very small percentage and generally those are located in a more different type of location closer to the coast, closer to different more vacation type uses versus kind of that urban core where we can get families living. I also want to underscore Commissioner Lin's point of affordable homes, affordable rentals they affect people that are really close that we know that are serving us that are close friends it's not what we often think of is this kind of outside I see driving by and you've got a bunch of mess in your carport. These are people that serve us, that work with us, that are friends, that are families that we work with. It's a big deal, so I hope that helps a little bit Commissioner Clarkson as far as that nexus of those areas. CLARKSON: No, it does. Just excuse me for my intense interest in this, I was involved in self- helped housing projects in Keaukaha and Pana'ewa back in the late 80's Miloli'i and recently Keaukaha for example, at that time was strictly local family housing. Mostly rental housing and that arca I've been told is novo very high percentage short-teri-n -vacation rental which is forcing 10 EXHIBIT D(DRAFT)