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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCOM 0634.000 2006-2008 ~<v o• ~y Harry Kim ^ Dixie Kaetsu Mnyar ; Mnrtnging Director r ' Barbara Kossow Y. ~ R'o~'di'~~ Deputy Mnnnging Director County of Hawaii 25 Aupuni Street, Room 215 Hilo, Hawaii 96720252 • (808) 961211 • Fax (808) 961!>553 KONA: 75-5706 Kualdni Highway, Sui[e 103 • Kailua-Kona, Hawaii 96740 (808) 329-5226 Fu (808) 326-5663 August 20, 2007 r•..: Honorable Pete Hoffrnann, Chairman and Members of the County Council - 4 County of Hawaii rv 333 Kilauea Avenue Hilo, HI 96720 - .-i Dear Chairman Hoffmann and Members: Change of Zone (REZ 854) f Applicant: RS10 Kalaoa, LLC Request: 5-Year Time Extension to Condition D of Ordinance No. 97 56 Tax Map Key: 7-3-10:37 ~anning Director Initiated Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code) of the Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition, as amended) To Create a "Superstore" Zoning District, Which Would be the Onlv Zoning District Where a "Superstore" Would be Allowed As required by Chapter 4, Sec. 6-4.3(C), Hawaii County Charter, transmitted herewith for the County Council's consideration and action aze the Planning Commission's letters and enclosures regarding the above-referenced requests. Sincerely, Harry Kim Mayor Enclosures Comm, No. ~ 3 cc: Planning Department Ref. Ta ~ n n (4g ~ Ref. Date A~~ 2_~~ ~tv or y._ ~,`y o .~~.w•M' t+~ County of Hawaii PLANNING COMMISSION Aupuni Center • 101 Pauahi S[reet, Suite 3 • Hilo, nawai`i 96720 Phone (808) 961-8288 • Fax (808) 961-8742 August 20, 2007 cs Honorable Pete Hoffmann, Chairman rv and Members of the County Council County of Hawai `i 333 Kilauea Avenue J Hilo, HI 96720 Dear Chairman Hoffinann and Members: Planning Director Initiated Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code) of the Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition, as amended) To Create a "Superstore" Zoning District, Which Would be the Only Zoning District Where a "Superstore" Would be Allowed The Planning Commission at its duly held public hearing on July 20, 2007, considered the Planning Director's request for an amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code) of the Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition, as amended) to create a "superstore" zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a "superstore" would be allowed, and voted to send an unfavorable recommendation to the County Council. We are sending you a copy of the Planning Director's proposed amendment and transcripts of the hearings for your consideration. Should you have questions regazding this matter, please contact the Planning Director at 961-8288. Sincerely, William raham, Chairman Planning Commission Lpdinitia[edsupers[ores0l pc cc: Planning Department-Kona Lincoln Ashida, Esq. Hawai `i County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employer PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JUNE 5, 2007 A regularly advertised hearing on the COUNTY COUNCIL AND PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 25 RELATING TO SUPERSTORES was called to order at 11:19 a.m. in the County of Hawaii, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Chairman William Graham presiding. PRESENT: William Graham (left at 12:07 p.m.) ABSENT & EXCUSED: Takashi Domingo C. Kimo Alameda Alvin Rho Andrew Iwashita Shelly Ogata Rene' Siracusa Rodney Watanabe Rell Woodwazd Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counse] Christopher Yuen, Planning Director Norman Hayashi, Staff Planner Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 33 people from the public in attendance. 5. INITIATOR: COUNTY COUNCIL Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, relating to Retail Establishments. The proposed amendment would not permit "superstores" in any zoning district. "superstore" means a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, offering for sale more than 25,000 different stock keeping units, and dedicating more than 20,000 gross squaze feet of floor azea to the sale of groceries. Sa. INITIATOR: PLANNING DIRECTOR Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, to create a "superstore" zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a "superstore" would be allowed. GRAHAM: Norman, our next item on the agenda, and I think you spoke to me a little bit before, is the, maybe I'll call it the superstore related ordinances; and we have a 5 and a Sa. How should I handle these at this time? Should I start with the 5 and then do the Sa, or join them together, or HAYASHI: Well, you can take it together I would assume. S GRAHAM: Okay. ATTACH: Cottm. 634 Bill 165 4 HAYASHI: Just for your information, as far as both bills, we are proposing or recommending that the Commission continue it again to the Kona meeting and take up action at that time. GRAHAM: All right, thank you. So our next agenda item on our regular agenda is shown as No. 5, the initiator is the County Council; and we have an addendum to our agenda which has a Sa which is a related item initiated by the Planning Director. They are both amendments to Chapter 25 of the Zoning Code in Hawaii County and they both relate to what's called superstores. Item 5 is an amendment to the Zoning Code whereby superstores would not be permitted in any zoning district. And superstores are defined as a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, offering for sale more than 25,000 different stock keeping units, and dedicating more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area to the sale of groceries. Agenda Item Sa initiated by the Planning Director in response to this would create a new zoning district called the superstore zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a superstore is allowed. And I believe the Planning Director gave us a rather thoughtful write-up on this explaining his reasons for making this additional Sa item that he initiates; and just paraphrasing briefly I think he's taking the position that if we are going to remove this superstore capability through the zoning districts on the island it would be appropriate to create a new zoning district such that if the County wished to have superstores somewhere the County Council would have to effectively zone an area specifically for that purpose. And so without the County Council taking that action it would not be allowed. But by doing this he has at least left a legal opportunity for such a zoning district to be created if the County's representatives in the County Council and the Mayor chose to do that. So does that meet your approval as a representation? YUEN: Yes. SIRACUSA: Question, please. GRAHAM: Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA: Since No. 5 was brought already before the public in Kona and is coming here now to this side, it seems to me that we can vote on No. 5. However, Sa did not have a public hearing on the Kona side; and so it seems to me that to lump them together when we can vote on one but not on the other until we get to Kona, that maybe confusing not only for the Commissioners but for members of the public who are here. So it seems to me that we should be taking S first and dealing with that and taking our vote on it; and then take the public heazing on Sa which we will still then have to go back to Kona and have a hearing on that side of the island. GRAHAM: Thank you, Commissioner Siracusa. I'm going to ask Mr. Torigoe in a second here about this. But my understanding is that we did have them both in our possession as Commissioners in Kona, but only the No. 5 was agendized, as you say. And so we got to hear that in two places but we only heard the one in Kona. So that technically now that we're hearing that one also here in Hilo we could vote on it today. But I think our intention and my intention is that we will not take a vote on 5 today, the one initiated by the Council, but we'll take the Commission's vote on the both of them when we return for another Kona hearing. Is that something that we just administratively can do, Mr. Torigoe, or is that a proper way to handle this? 2 TORIGOE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I Chink it's within your discretion to handle it either way. You know, as you noted there have been two hearings on Item 5; and actually even that is more just a matter of policy. It's not something that's required by law that you do that. But your policy and the practice has been to have two hearings on something like this. That has been done for No. 5. It has not been done for Sa at this point. But if the Commission feels like it would be clearer for everybody, you know, one way or the other, I think it's within your discretion to either vote on 5 today and then vote on Sa the next time, or you could put off 5 today also, you know, to the next Kona meeting. GRAHAM: Okay. That's certainly my, my intention is to put off our actual voting on 5 today until the next Kona meeting. But, Commissioner Iwashita, you have any comment on that? IWASHITA: My feeling is that we ought to vote on 5 today; and then we can have the additional hearing on Sa in Kona at our next Kona meeting and vote on Sa at the time. My, it's a procedural My feeling is basically just procedurally because we have two separate proposals. And to me to put them together is not procedurally correct to try and vote on them together. Because, you know, if one supports one measure and then opposes another, then you're going to have a convoluted motion that says we move to approve the ban and we vote to disapprove the added addition of another area. So it becomes convoluted and I think procedurally incorrect. So I think they need to be voted on separately. And so my choice would be to vote on the agendized matter that has been heazd, the ban which had been heard already in Kona and we' 11 hear today. WATANABE: Mr. Chair? GRAHAM: Yes, Commissioner Watanabe. WATANABE: I don't think we're really deciding whether, we're going to combine the voting on 5 and Sa. We're just deciding as to whether we're going to vote on 5 during this meeting. Certainly if the Commission decides to forego on the vote this meeting on No. 5 then we could vote sepazately on both issues in the subsequent Kona meeting. And so I don't think it's an issue of whether we combining both proposals into one decision. And I have no real problem with continuing to the Kona meeting since it's more of a practice as opposed to a rule with regard to, you know, whether we vote after the second meeting or not. And, also, because the two proposals are very, very similar, and I think I also want a little more information too. GRAHAM: Okay. Mr. Yuen? YUEN: Yes. Let me just give more information about why we're recommending that the Commission not vote on the ban today and wait until the Kona meeting. Clearly you will take separate votes on the two items. Somebody might say well I support the ban and I oppose the other, but you have two proposals and you would take separate votes on them. We would not recommend voting on the zoning district bill today simply because it hasn't formally been agendized on both sides of the island. It was available, it was in the materials as an option but it wasn't actually on the agenda. So just as a matter of practice when we have anisland-wide item we want to have it agendized on both sides of the island. So that leads to our recommendation to not vote on the ban today simply because your role here is to make a recommendation to the County Council, and there are two alternatives now really on the same 3 subject, and simply to try to get both alternatives to the Council at the same time, rather than have one go up to the Council after this meeting and the other go up after the next meeting. That's the only reason. GRAHAM: Thank you, Mr. Yuen. We have a lot of people here today. I'd kind of like to get as much public testimony today as we can before we break for lunch since you all have been very patient; and then maybe we can address the formality of what we vote or don't vote on after the lunch. For your information, I have some work I need to do in Hilo today so I will not be chairing the meeting in the afternoon but Commissioner Alameda will; and I'm sure he can deal with that issue at the time. So if it's okay with the Commissioners, I'd like to move to the public testimony now. IWASHITA: Mr. Chair? GRAHAM: Yes, Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: As a matter of record though I think we should proceed on both matters separately as far as taking the testimony because they will be voted on sepazately. So I don't think we should confuse the record or I have a concern that maybe it's not a, you know, significant one. But I feel like, you know, if we mix it up, the record, then it's going to be mixed up. GRAHAM: If I might ask, in that case if there's someone here in the audience or many people who have thoughts about both of these do you feel we need to call them up in two separate instances or could they just speak to the general topic and indicate which of the two they are referring to as they refer? Would that be all right with you? IWASHITA: Sure. GRAHAM: Okay, thanks. So let's go what way. If you would then, I have a list of people here now. I have nine people signed up to give public testimony. And there maybe more of you who would like to; and if you want to please go over and register with Shazon. And I'll call the first three public testifiers up right now. We have three chairs up there. I have Paul Campbell, Melvin Yasutake and Donna Leong. Could the three of you come forward at this time. Thank you. Could you each raise your right hand so I can swear you in please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter today? TESTIFIERS: I do. GRAHAM: Thank you. Since we do have a number of testifiers, we may or may not get through by lunch break; but I would appreciate it if you would hold your testimony to like three minutes or something and just be concise on what you think you'd bring to the table on this. Maybe I'll start with Paul Campbell; and could you just, as you begin your testimony, give your name and address so it's on our record and then speak into the microphone. CAMPBELL: I am Paul Campbell. I live at 13-1342 Malama in Leilani Estates. I am the current chair of the Sierra Club, Moku Loa group, representing about 950 people. We stand with our Hawaiian brothers and sisters in groups Hoomalu Hawaii and Aupuni O Hawaii. We 4 stand in support of their desire for self determination. And since this involves DHH land, and there are some issues around that, I'd like to address that a little bit Where is the social justice in this when people have been waiting for generations to get this DHHL land? hi conjunction with that, I'm referring to the original Act, the United States Act, that formed the backdrop for the GRAHAM: Sir, are you addressing yourself to this particular agenda item we have before us today? CAMPBELL: Yes, I am. We stand, let me state firmly that we stand in favor of the big box store ban. We stand opposed to Sa which is the amendment to the General Plan. GRAHAM: Thank you for the clarification. CAMPBELL: That's a clarification. The original agreement between the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands and the County of Hawaii circles around the original Act which is known as the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act of 1920, amended in July 192E It states firmly in Title 1(a), the purpose, "The Congress of the United States and the State of Hawaii declare that the policy of this Act is to enable native Hawaiians to return to their lands in order to fully support self-sufficiency for native Hawaiians and the self-determination of native Hawaiians in the administration of this Act, and the preservation of the values, traditions, and culture of native Hawaiians." How did we get embroiled by putting these mega stores on Hawaiian Home lands? What would happen if we put up some kupuna housing or student housing for the university? If elderly housing were put there and a better transportation system evolves, it would be a perfect use for that land; and it could go to native Hawaiians in that way. These superstore creators did an end run last time and they're trying to do it this time. The Council and probably this Commission is under the opinion that the County has no jurisdiction over DHHL land. We believe that is in error. We believe it can be challenged, but that's a long- term vision. in the meantime we have, the Sierra Club is doing an educational campaign showing the video, the frontline, it's not a frontline, it's a documentary called "The High Cost of Low Price." There is an excellent article by Dave Smith in this paper. I don't have to reiterate what these superstores do to a local community once they come in. I've talked to the managers and owners of several retail grocery stores and such. They're all pulling their hairs out, concerned about this. And at this point GRAHAM: Could you kind of finish up so we can CAMPBELL: I'll summarize here. GRAHAM: Thank you. CAMPBELL: Kauai just recently passed, last week passed, a big box store ban; and we would like this Council to take it up and also support this big box store ban. It's not appropriate for this island, for this culture, and it would be a travesty to have these big box stores here. Mahalo. GRAHAM: Thank you, Mr. Campbell. Any questions from the Commissioners? 5 SIRACUSA: Yes. GRAHAM: Commissioner Siracusa. SIl2ACUSA: Yeah, one of the members in the audience showed me a green, bright green paper, I see one there also, that has been circulating. And I don't know if the other Commissioners have seen it but it seems to me that people aze under the understanding that this body will make decisions for the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. And so that question about whether the County has control over what happens, I would like to hear a legal opinion on that here. GRAHAM: If I may, Commissioner Siracusa, I don't believe this body has any jurisdiction or any decision making in that regard right now. Would you just like it as a piece of information from the Planning Director? SIRACUSA: Well, what I mean is if the decision to put up a big box store, a superstore, on Hawaiian Home lands is not in our purview, if we have nothing to say about it, then a lot of people aze sitting here and wasting their time. It's only if their big box stores can be banned elsewhere on the island besides Hawaiian Home lands that it becomes relevant. CAMPBELL: Mr. Chairman, may I address that real succinctly? GRAHAM: Hold on a second, please. Mr. Yuen, would you like to speak to that at all? YUEN: Well, the question of County zoning jurisdiction over Hawaiian Home lands is one that actually goes back quite a long ways. The first controversy over that actually was in 1970-1971. And it's a matter that has actually never been definitively litigated. But there have been a number of Corporation Counsel and State Attorney General opinions on the subject. It's clear that the counties have no jurisdiction to prevent the use of Hawaiian Home lands for residential or pastoral purposes, and agricultural purposes, as decided by the Hawaiian Homes Commission. The situation with respect to the Commercial and Industrial leases is not absolutely clear; but there were Corporation Counsel and Attorney General opinions indicating that the County zoning did not apply to those sites. So for that reason the County did not take legal action and interfere with the building of the Wal-Mart Store that is currently in Hilo on Hawaiian Home's site, even though it was not appropriately zoned for that site. In 2002 the County based upon this understanding entered into an MOA with the Department of Hawaiian Home that essentially said that with respect to County zoning that the Hawaiian Home could develop as it wished. Hawaiian Home is supposed to follow their own master plan but that the County would not hold Hawaiian Home to County zoning with respect to all sites, including these Commercial and Industrial sites. So the long and short of it is that to take, for example, the area that's immediately behind Wal-Mart, that's still in ML zone. And actually the Wal-Mart Center if you look on the maps of the County it's in the ML zone. But the County is, if the Hawaiian Homes Commission makes a decision to lease that for a Commercial site, which is not as I mentioned before Retail/Commercial, is not allowed by the zoning, the County will say, yes, you can do that; and the County will then process, for example, building permits, plan approvals and the like for that site. Now Hawaiian Home will according to the MOA follow normal 6 requirements not related to the use of the land. But what I mean is they would follow something like the height limit, the number of parking spaces, handicap stalls, landscaping, and those kinds of requirements that go with the development of the site. That's part of the MOA. But the County would allow Hawaiian Home to make the decision as far as the basic use of the site.. That's the gist of the MOA. GRAHAM: Thank you. SIIZACUSA: Follow-up please? GRAHAM: I'd like to go forward as much as I can with public testimony. SIRACUSA: Okay, just quickly for clarification. GRAHAM: Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA: So the people who are here because they oppose a superstore on Hawaiian Home lands specifically aze taking their concerns to the wrong body then. They should be taking those concerns to DHHL. But people who are against or for superstores in general that's what this hearing is about Is that correct? YUEN: Right. The Hawaiian Home Department based on the decision by the Commission, just to give you an example, has put the site that's right behind the current Wal- Mart up for lease, and Wal-Mart was the bidder and is currently negotiating with Hawaiian Home to put a store on that site. But that's a decision of the Hawaiian Homes Commission, not by any County authority. SIl2ACUSA: Thank you. GRAHAM: Thank you for bringing all this up, Commissioner Siracusa. I do think it's quite relevant. SII2ACUSA: I thought that some of the people out in the audience needed to understand that distinction. GRAHAM: Yes. Let me move on to our next testifier, please. CAMPBELL: Mr. Chairman, I just want to invite you all to the showing of the documentary at the Keaau Community Center Thursday at 7 p.m. Mahalo. GRAHAM: That was Paul Campbell speaking again. Melvin Yasutake, please. Could you start with your name and address and give your testimony. YASUTAKE: Hi. My name is Melvin Yasutake and I live in Kurtistown. I'm representing myself, and my concern was about the traffic around that area. Because I go to the gym in the back by Bacon Universal and some days the traffic is horrendous over there in trying to get out or get in. And if Wal-Mart builds a superstore there it's going to be, I mean, to me it's 7 going to be worse, and you've got Home Depot. And 1 believe that area is not going to be able to handle the crowd around that area. Okay, thank you. GRAHAM: Thank you for your testimony, sir. Any questions? SIRACUSA: Yes. GRAHAM: Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Yes. You oppose the superstore on that site. Do you oppose superstores in general or do you, you know, does it matter to you? Depends on the site specific, your concerns? YASUTAKE: I oppose any superstores. `Cause I travel to the mainland and I see some of them; and the communities, they look devastated to me. SIRACUSA: Thank you for making that clearer. GRAHAM: Thank you, sir. Donna Leong, please. Give your name and address first and then your testimony. LEONG: Aloha kakou. My name is Donna Leong. I live at 60 Komohane Street in Keaukaha. When I take a look at this, the number 5 on your agenda, I am in favor of this proposed amendment which would not permit superstores in any zoning. Now I'm looking at your wording of "in any zoning district." So if we have districts on our island that are already designated, that means in none of the districts? Am I reading this correctly that there would be no superstores? GRAHAM: I believe you are. LEONG: And so I am in favor of it for three reasons. Number one, you know, our mom and pop stores which have really cemented our lifestyle here in Hawaii are gone. When we have a superstore come in, do you have a choice of what to buy as we did with mom and pop stores? You know, you could go to the best crackseed shops and get crackseeds. Can you do that today? Or does it come out of a package that is displayed in 40 other stores or in just the superstores? And so that particular lifestyle is gone. The second also when you talk about economics and you talk about if, you know, we'll be making money or there will be more jobs or that people can climb the economic ladder, when we take a look at that, how far up the ladder do we want to go, or can we be satisfied with the easy living that we have today? If we take a look at superstores, are they to save us money? Are they to give us jobs? Because if it does save us money, where does that money go? Now lazge superstores say that, you know, they'll take care of the local district that they will be in, they'll take care of the environment that they'll be in, and they'll take care of the people. But when you take a look at it as I've seen in other superstores, and the one that we have here is Wa1-Mart, it's that a lot of the entry level jobs are for locals. But when you graduate to the higher levels in that job capacity, they're not. And so how much of that will be benefit our children? 8 The third reason, taking a look at superstores, is that when we see superstores, we're going to see nothing else. And I think that takes away from where we are able to make choices. Choices are gone for us with superstores for that. And superstores, you know, if we had a million and a.half people as Honolulu does, it makes lots and tremendous money. Yeah, but why does Costco sit in Kona instead of Hilo? Cause I consider that a superstore too. Okay, so when you define here exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, you know, that's quite a large store if we want to do that. The other thing I wanted to address is I did not know that there was a Sa that they would be attaching where you, I know that the Planning Department had come up with let's pick a zone then for superstores for that. And I am concerned about that portion because, one, this particular amendment here bans superstores while your Sa creates, creates a situation where they can have superstores. And that's where it concerns me. Because I live on Hawaiian Home lands, and believe it or not I'm building a house after 25 years after I have gotten ahanded-down lease from my grandmother, only now building. So, you know, you can see the time span that it takes to work with Hawaiian Home in order to get someone on there to live. When you take a look at how much property or how much land, I kind of visualize selling land, but we do it all the time and it's just the way of American life for there. But I can see the caring of land which I've been brought up to do. When you take a look at that, then lands that are specifically going or is stated in other laws to rehabilitate an indigenous people, where there's a cloud that we have verses who has jurisdiction over whom or where's the governance You know, we talk about County planning, we talk about Hawaiian Home's jurisdiction. And yet even though if you say no superstores you're going to do it in new zoning, Hawaiian Home can just say, well, we're going to build there anyway. So how much jurisdiction does the County have? And if they do then I as a Hawaiian Homesteader would like the Planning Commission to come in favor with us and say no superstores on Hawaiian Home lands. Thank you. GRAHAM: Thank you, Ms. Leong. Any comments, questions from the Commissioners? All right, I' 11 take the next three testifiers. Thank you for yours. I have James Kim, Terry Crowley and John Yates, III, if you folks would come forward. Could you all raise your right hand, please. And do you swear or affirm to tell the truth before the Planning Commission today on this matter? TESTIFIERS: Yes. I do. GRAHAM: Thank you. Keep in mind, again, we're looking at the two agenda items. Item 5 was initiated by the Council which would effectively ban superstores and Item 5a was initiated by the Planning Director which would give the opportunity for the Council to create a district where they could be allowed if the Council so chose. So you might just be clear in those regards with your testimony. Mr. James Kim, if you would go first, and I'll ask you to give your name and address, and then go ahead with your testimony. KIM: My name is James Kim. I live at in 1184 Puhau Street. I'm against all superstores cause if they were to build a superstore where they want to, have you ever seen the traffic there? I know you guys pass out there. Have you ever tried crossing the street with your kids? It's impossible. So I'm looking at traffic congestion, you know, maybe some accidents happening. So I'm against all superstores. Even somewhere else in another district, I don't think so. That's all I have to say. 9 GRAHAM: Thank you very much for your concise and clear testimony. Terry Crowley next, please. CROWLEY: Yes, sir. GRAHAM: Name and address, please. CROWLEY: My name is Terry Crowley and my address is 227 East Palai Street. Chairman Graham and Commissioners, good morning. My name is Terry Crowley and I'm the store manager for the Hilo Wal-Mart. Thank you for the opportunity to testify against Resolution 21-07 which is Item 5 on the agenda. I helped open the Hilo store as a manager in the mid-1990s, but first came to the islands in 1971 when I began a 24-year in the US Navy as a Naval Officer in the submarine force. My wife is a native Hawaiian. She was born and raised in Keaukaha. We currently live on Department of Hawaiian Home Lands. We have a farm lot down on East Palai. Actually my mother-in-law and my father-in-law, the late John and Mani-, I'm sorry, John and Lani Manuia were one of the original farmers there in Panaewa. All of us want to see the island thrive with smazt growth and planning. Unfortunately that's something that this legislation does not do. Strong community involvement also is important to us. We were pleased to honor Pahoa High and Intermediate School Cynthia McAnish as our store's teacher of the year last year. And we're proud to say that she went on to be named Wal- Mart's 2006 Teacher of the Yeaz for the State of Hawaii. In all Pahoa High School received $11,000 in educational grants from that program. More recently we've tried to help our neighbors, specifically around the Panaewa Park, where they recently had a fire. We've tried to direct work parties to go and help, with our associates; and we've started fund raising activities also to help raise funds to repair the park facilities. We also work with many local suppliers and vendors. The Keaukaha-Panaewa Farmers Association also holds farmers markets there daily; and we've had that ever since the store first opened. This bill would keep us from expanding our local supplier-base with additional farmers and local businesses. So when it comes down to it, we aze against this resolution and urge you to vote against it. Thank you for your time. GRAHAM: Thank you, sir. I'll have John Yates, please. YATES: Okay. Morning Chairman Graham and Commissioners. My name is John Yates. I am a local resident of Kailua-Kona, 73-4400 Holoholo Street. My family has been here in Hawaii for several generations. Some of you might even be familiar with my late great grandfather, Julian R. Yates who was a senator at one time for the island. I just want to make mention that I am a Konawaena graduate. I won't tell you the year, but I am a Konawaenan and am proud to be a Konawaena High School grad. I'm here today to testify against Resolution 21-07. For the past three years I've served as the store manager for the Kailua-Kona Wal-Mart. I want you to know that I enjoy running a store for a company that truly cares about the community that it operates in. Each year we're able to provide thousands of dollars in grants in in-kind donations to various nonprofits across the island. Last year our grants in donations totaled more than $100,000 for our Big Island Community, and that's between the Hilo and Kailua-Kona stores. Among those efforts, you might recall the immediate disaster relief with the Hawaii chapter of the American Red Cross following last October's earthquake 10 where we were helping with local police and also the Red Cross issues. Just this last week we wanted to be the lead store in Hawaii to celebrate the 20`h anniversary of the partnership between the Children's Miracle Network and Wal-Mart. My company also encourages me for community involvement. I'm proud to be considered among the Friends of the Drug Court.. I've also coached numerous youth and adult leagues for both football, basketball and soccer. This legislation does not help our community. It stifles competition and is unfair. Please think of our residents, think of our community, and please vote against this resolution. Thank you for your time. GRAHAM: Thank you for your testimony. Okay, Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: I am aware of some of the philanthropic things that the Wal-Mart company has done. Are you by mentioning this, and the previous testifier also I noticed made a special point of mentioning these donations that you have made, would you continue if this Resolution passed, would you continue to make donations to the community, or are you trying to hint to us that you would cease to do so? KIM: I can't speak for the corporation, but I can just tell you the store that I run would continue and I would feel that they would actually get larger going forward. GRAHAM: Thank you, sir. SIRACUSA: Thank you. GRAHAM: All right. I appreciate your testimony? OGATA: Mr. Chair? I'm sorry, I have a question. , GRAHAM: Oh, excuse me. Go ahead, Shelly. OGATA: And this perhaps maybe addressed to Mr. Crowley as well. Both of you have spoken very highly of some of the benefits of a so-called supercenter to the community. But I would like to hear from both of you what perhaps some of the risks and perhaps some of the adverse effects that could happen to our community as well. GRAHAM: Mr. Yates, you want to address that first? YATES: Well, I'll try the best I can on that one as far as We've got a lot more positives obviously, especially being from the islands and seeing it developed. I remember specifically when I left the islands to go to college thinking what a world there is out there when I finally got there. I said, wow, you can actually buy milk for $3 a gallon or whatever it was back then instead of what the price was when I was growing up. So actually I have a lot more benefits. I can tell you that if we didn't have that I believe grocery prices would not be what they should be today on the island, which, you know, the savings to each household, including to myself with a household of five, is something that I would look forward to personally. I1 GRAHAM: Thank you. Mr. Crowley, do you have any comment on that, too? CROWLEY: I can't give you any specifics as far as risks that are involved; but as we've talked about before, we live in this community and our families grew up in this community.. And as I stated my wife was born and raised here, our families are here. So if there are risks that are involved, we are going to address any of the risks, we'll try to address them as best we can and try and fix whatever is brought to our attention. GRAHAM: My understanding of Commissioner Ogata's question for you was just to give you an opportunity to speak to the issues that other people have testified that aze problems for them, that's all. YATES: Well, I'd like to make one comment on something that was just brought up. One, again, I am the general store manager again so I'm born and raised as local as you can get. So as far as opportunities for locals, it's unlimited. I also want to make mention that I have 13 upper managers where 9 of them are local. So the majority of my staff is from the island here locally and they have a great opportunity to advance as far as they'd like to. GRAHAM: Thank you, sir. CROWLEY: And I would say the same thing. I have 13 and 9 of my 13 aze locals from Hawaii, graduated from Hawaii schools. GRAHAM: Thank you. Any follow-up, Commissioner Ogata? No? OGATA: No. GRAHAM: Thank you both. IWASHITA: Mr. Chair? GRAHAM: Yes, Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for the record, I'm a Hilo High School graduate. My recollection, we used to bust up Kona a lot at football. YATES: Oh, that's not true. IWASHITA: I have a couple, I guess I'd ask for your comment. Part of our material includes articles that talk about, you know, sort of obvious thing to me, that superstores would require a super parking lot, yeah, in order to accommodate the people that you expect to come. And so the claim is that that adversely affects traffic, not just in the area but in the surrounding areas. So do you have any comments about that? That would be one of the, in my mind, an adverse impact of having a superstore that would have a super parking lot and super traffic problems. CROWLEY: I can't speak personally of it. 12 GRAHAM: Mr. Crowley, go ahead, yes. CROWLEY: Yes, I'm sorry. I can't speak personally of it, other than the fact I visited the mainland too and I've been to some of the supercenters that they have there, and their parking lots are not any much bigger than the one that we currently have in Hilo. It depends, you know, obviously on the size of the store. But just for the ones that I've seen they're not much bigger than the parking lots that we have. GRAHAM: Thank you. YATES: Can I also make a comment to that, Chair? GRAHAM: Yes, Mr. Yates. YATES: Okay. If you look at the demographics of our Kona store, right next door is the Safeway. The way I look at it is the traffic, if you go into a supermarket plus the general store that exists today, it benefits if you have one location. In fact, I think there will be less traffic by having to just go to one location. We're right next to each other, we're neighbors, everybody goes to the same location. The rest I can't really speak for. Our market manager had to step out so that would be my comment to that. IWASHITA: The other question I had for both of you is that, you know, one of the things that the Council resolution talks about is that, you know, state-wide we're trying to promote what's called smart growth or, you know, making our communities more pedestrian friendly and so forth. And, I guess, this superstore, super parking lot image that I have doesn't really promote developing more towns like Hilo, and, you know, those developed in a time when there were less cars, obviously. But that's basically the idea that the resolution talks about. How do you see a superstore, you know, adding to? `Cause I don't really see how it can add to the development of a more pedestrian-oriented town. GRAHAM: Mr. Yates? YATES: I have not IWASHITA: More simply put, how many people are going to walk to your store and walk away with bags in their hands and go home? YATES: I have not seen any plans for any type of blueprint for what might be coming or hoping to come. I can just tell you that even based on a statement here that our market manager was going to read Wal-Mart stands ready and willing to sit down at the table with our County leaders and discuss community problems, traffic. I've personally sat down with the Mayor and talked about homeless, drug problems, things that really aren't you know, a direct concern but we do have an impact on that on how we can help. So myself even traffic is a major concern there in Kona. So I don't know if that answers your question but I'm really not prepared to discuss or have any blueprints. I have not seen or been involved in any conversations with that. IWASHITA: Thank you. 13 GRAHAM: Thank you, sir. Anything else from the Commissioners? All right, thank you all for your extended testimony and response to the Commissioners' questions. We're past 12 o'clock and I'm going to need to leave. But would the Commission like to try to finish this agenda before lunch or take a, I guess we're going to take a lunch break. PvVASHITA: How many more testifiers? ALAMEDA: We only have five more. IWASHITA: Five more testifiers. GRAHAM: We have five more testifiers, if we want to just take the testimony then break for lunch and, you know ALAMEDA: Yeah. IWASHITA: Yeah. PUBLIC: Yeah. GRAHAM: All right. Maybe I can pass this over to Commissioner Alameda and he can do that. (Commissioner Graham left the meeting at this time, 12:07 p.m.) ALAMEDA: Hi, ladies and gentlemen, aloha. PUBLIC: Aloha. ALAMEDA: My name is Kimo Alameda. I'll be the facilitator in this meeting. I'm the first vice-chair. And so if I drop dead then Rodney Watanabe will take my place. All right, okay. Okay, let me call up the next testifiers. So we have a Samuel Kaleleiki, all right, Cory Hazden, Kale Gumapac. Let me swear you in. If you can please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. ALAMEDA: Okay, thank you very much. We can start on my faz right. So if you could please state your name and address for the record. You can speak into the mike. That way we can get everything recorded. GUMAPAC: My name is Kale Gumapac and I live in Puna, Paradise Park. ALAMEDA: Go ahead, Kale. You may share your testimony with us. GUMAPAC: You know, this reminds me of an interesting song that was written back in, a few years ago. You know, they paved paradise and put up one parking lot, they paved 14 paradise and they put up one parking ]ot. Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot. Your responsibility, oh, I forget, I represent the Kanaka Council; and the Kanaka Council is made up of all of the leaders from the different Hawaiian organizations throughout this island. It's your responsibility as a Commissioner, Planning Commissioner, to also respect the Constitution of the State of Hawaii. And it's our responsibility to remind you about that responsibility. And the responsibility that I'm talking about is in regards to Article 12, Section 7, "The State reaffirms and shall protect all rights, customarily and traditionally exercised for subsistence, cultural and religious purposes and possessed by ahupua`a tenants who are descendents of native Hawaiians who inhabited the Hawaiian Islands." The Kanaka Council takes the position that all superstores must and should be banned from Hawaii. The superstores are not in keeping with our cultural traditional rights here in Hawaii. The superstores are a threat to the very fabric that we are here today. Let's not kid ourselves. The superstores and Wal-Mart guys make it a practice to find locations where they can usurp all of the existing laws that are now existing to make it easier for the superstores to be built. They have done that on the mainland. They have done it when they have been shut down. And so where do they go? They go to the Indians to have the Indians to go and buy land so that the Indians when they buy the land now they can put it under the reservation and is no longer under the jurisdiction of the County and other bodies. The Wal-Mart attorneys, and E kala mai for the managers here because those aze local boys, they're not back in the main office planning out and understanding how they can make all of these things happen. All of their attorneys, they knew long time ago when they built this Wal-Mart that the superstore was going to be planned. And it was no accident that they went on Hawaiian Home lands, because they knew that the County doesn't have jurisdiction over Hawaiian Home lands. And the issues that you guys are talking about right now as to whether or not you have the jurisdiction or not, they already know that. This is, you guys are just going through a formality to do this kind of stuff. And the Wal-Mart guys back at their home office, they know you guys cannot make the decision. Sothis is why they come onto Hawaiian Home lands. And I oppose that. And I also oppose the superstores because it's a threat to people like us in Puna. Because why? We're going to be forced to drive all the way into Hilo and pay all of that expense and gas in order to just go shopping in Hilo. For what? They're going to save us 10 to 15 cent per item when we pay $3 or $4 per gallon on gas? It's also a threat in the fabric that we make up of the ahupuaa concept that we're trying to push that we have district shopping centers so that each of the districts will be able to sustain the district of Puna, the district of Kau, the district of Hilo, the district of Kona. When you approve these superstores, you guys are forcing all of the people to drive all this way and you're helping to make Wal-Mart more money. They don't caze about what's happening. The donations that they're making to the people over here, that's not even a drop in the bucket. Because Wal-Mart is the biggest corporation in the entire world. And what is a $100,000 to them because they're going to donate? So the Kanaka Council opposes, opposes any development and approval of the superstores, and we will do whatever is necessary to continue to oppose it. ALAMEDA: Thank you, Mr. Gumapac. Any questions? Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA: I just wanted to assure the testifier that the reason I asked that question about that donations was because I wanted to find out if he was sort of threatening us with withdrawal of donations, not just because 1 wanted to say oh, whoopee, Wal-Mart, thank you for 15 all those donations. And I was glad that he was not threatening us with that. But that doesn't mean that I, you know, support that. GUMAPAC: Well, if they decide to add more to the pot, that's good. So that will help our local people even more. But let's keep it small as far as the stores go. IWASHITA: I just, are you taking action with Hawaiian Home lands, too? GUMAPAC: Absolutely. IWASHITA: Okay, thank you. ALAMEDA: Thank you. Ma'am, could you please state your name and address for the record. HARDEN: Cory Harden, 18-4033 Kanahele Place in Mt. View. I urge you to keep superstores off Hawaii Island. I urge you to vote for the amendment to ban superstores and against the amendment for a superstore zoning district. As you know Kauai bans superstores and bans are also proposed on Oahu and Maui. Superstores may cause Wal-Mart affects even if they're not Wal-Marts. I brought some data from the high cost of low prices website which has citations for every point that it makes. It seems fairly credible. I do have two comments based on what the Wal-Mart managers just said. I am real disturbed when you were asked about problems and risks that there might be that you didn't come up with any until we thought about it a while. That makes me concern of, whether you're looking at the effects on the community realistically. And it could raise questions in some people's minds about how forthcoming Wal-Mart is about, you know, some of the downsides. Everything has an upside and a downside. So that was my reaction to what they said. ALAMEDA: Ma'am, if you can just direct your comments to us. HARDEN: Oh, sorry. When I'm insulting someone I like to address them directly. Okay. Also this website said that Wal-Mart does give many donations, but they're apt to be small donations. So you'll see a large number of donations and not realize they're not very big. When Wal-Mart opens sales nearby businesses go down 17 to 61 percent. The effect is worse in rural areas. It takes some time but it does happen. In Hilo we still have lots of downtown businesses opened. They seem to be catering to cruise ship passengers. Is that the kind of town that we want? Average hourly Wal-Mart employee earns about $4,000 less than the Federal annual poverty level for a family of four. Almost half of Wal-Mart Associates children are on Medicaid or not under any health insurance program at all. 16 Wal-Mart has been sued in several states for wage and hour abuses, such as having employees work off the clock and deleting time from payroll records. And if these folks here take issue with anything I say, I'd be happy to hear from them. Wal-Mart is being sued for discrimination against 1.6 million former and current female employees. Wal-Marl instructs its managers to increase numbers of part time employees to keep their costs down. When Wal-Mart comes to an area the wages are apt to go down. WATANABE: Mr. Chair, you know, she's addressing a lot of stuff to Wal-Mart and etc., but it's really a generic type of definition. So I for myself I'd appreciate it if you'd referred to superstores as opposed to Wal-Mart. It's not us against Wal-Mart kind of issue. HARDEN: I'm citing the statistics because Wal-Mart is a very likely candidate. They're planning to, they're thinking seriously of the Hilo site; and the superstore effects, as I said, could be similaz to the Wal-Mart. I'm not assuming that it would all be Wal-Mart. So ALAMEDA: Could you summarized. HARDEN: But I'll finish quickly. Wages tend to go down not, azound the Wal-Mazt in general. Wal-Mart's environmental record is outstanding for violations, $1 million in violations (2005), 22 stores; $3 million for storm water violations in nine states (2004); $1 million for violations (2001), 17 locations. In Pennsylvania they halted all the Wal-Mart construction after water quality violations. And Wal-Mart is apt to leave behind large vacant stores, which is what they're talking about also doing in Hilo. They're going to move to the next one so they're apt to leave these eyesores behind. So basically if you're looking at Wal-Mart effects also in the superstores, I don't think it's something we can afford. ALAMEDA: Thank you, Ms. Hazden. Any questions for Cory? Seeing none, you may be seated. Thank you for your testimony. Yes, sir, Samuel. KALELEIKI: Aloka Ka Kou. ALAMEDA: Aloha. KALELEIKI: My name is Samuel Kaleleiki. I live in Puna, 15-2727 Hinalea Street I am here because of this ad, this ad here. It caught my eye. Thirty thousand plus Hawaiians are still on the list. I was on the list for 25 years. In 2005 just received my parcel. I speak directly to the kanaka maolis here; and I think there's only about 5 or 7 of us here. The rest, look at this picture, look at this total picture of what's going on. This entire room here is going to plan for the kanaka maolis, going to plan all of this happenings on this moku. I am a member of the Kanaka Council. It also states the iwi on this flyer here, when any time you do development you have to dig up the terrain. In that terrain there are iwis of kanaka maolis. The iwi shows ownership of that 17 property, but it's irrelevant. Wal-Mart in Honolulu tools all the iwi of my kupuna in the aina there and put them in containers. They're still in containers. So kanaka maolis I speak to you directly. You need to demand and command and have everyone here who's a citizen of the State of Hawaii read Article 12, especially Section 7 of Article 12. It will tell you as planners what you must do, our officials what you must do. It states there firmly. It states that right there. And this flyer is what brought me here today. I could hardly wait to get here to speak. You may just be planners; but like I said I speak directly to the kanaka maolis which probably this room of 20 people is only about 7 or 8 kanaka maolis. Kanaka maolis, you need to demand and command. Also, I urge kanaka maolis also to learn Article 12 and especially Section 7. You'll be surprised. All the happenings, all the yao yao that's going on, this dog and pony show that's being produced, any time the Council sits and they see a kanaka maoli, you see a smirk. That's the way they grade it, that's the way they're raised. We are the only ones that really know the meaning of aloha. Really know what the meaning of aloha means; and that's love, love for your fellow man. All those others here they spell aloha m-o-n-e-y. We've got the super ferry that's coming here. All those guys in Honolulu going to put their, especially the fishermen, going to fill up their coolers with ice, they're going to come out to om shorelines here, and fish it, go back to the ferry that evening, go back and sell it. So, again, thank you for listening to me. And I hope I can get one kanaka maoli to research or go find Article 12, Section 7, and if you follow me I have a bunch of it in my automobile; and I'll be glad to share it with you, also the planners. So, any questions? Thank you very much. ALAMEDA: Questions? Commissioner Siracusa? SIItACUSA: Yes. I had an opportunity to look at that green paper but I believe that the other Commissioners have not. Would you mind passing, would,it be okay to pass it along? KALELEIKI: I can read it. Yeah, I can read it or I can pass, leave it here. SII2ACUSA: Just pass it along, that would be okay, yeah. ALAMEDA: Staff, Jeff. We'll take a look at it. SIRACUSA: If you have other copies. Thank you so much. ALAMEDA: Thank you, Uncle, thank you for your time today. I appreciate it. Mahalo. Okay, well, we're moving right along. I know our Commissioners are getting hungry but you guys must be more hungry. So we've got two more testifiers. Patrick and Donald, please come forward. You've already heard some of the testimony; and may I ask that you bring something new to the table, or you could say "ditto". But I've got to swear you in first. Uncle Pat, you're already sworn in already, yeah? KAHAWAIOLA`A: Yes. 18 ALAMEDA: Maybe raise your hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. ALAMEDA: Thank you, sir. I'll start on my far right If you can state your name and address, again, I guess for the record, then you may proceed. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Yes. My name is Patrick Kahawaiola`a. I live in Panaewa now. I do and I want to preface this by saying I think the former chairman before he left mentioned when he started this part of the agenda was you had 5 and Sa, but I think he said the Wal-Mart amendment; and I think that's what predicated the fact that everybody else stazted to talk about the superstore as being the Wal-Mart. But it is by no fact, no stretch of the imagination every news article that I have read, it only details about this superstore and who that individual is going to be. The Wal-Mart was the only bidder for the area of land and, therefore, I think it's not inappropriate for all of us to continue to believe that Wal-Mart is the superstore that may be here. Both of your amendments, I would like anyone to correct me if I am wrong, I look at 5 as being a ban and Sa as to create, I mean there's an amendment here to the County Council, excuse me, to the County Zoning Code to ban superstores and the other is to create a special zoning to allow superstores. So, please bear with me, I don't have anything written but I do have this based on the fact that I am an advocate for Hawaiian Home lands. So if this is going to be built on Hawaiian Home lands, if that's what we're talking about, I just need to give some clarification to all of you that the reason that I am here is to let you know that before you, Wal-Mart or anyone else, this is not an anti Wal-Mart thing, this is anti use of Hawaiian Home lands. They're coming before this County Council to ask your permission to rezone the land or zone lands. I think the Director made a statement when was asked by one of the Commissioners is this legal to, if we don't have the jurisdiction why are we talking about it. He gave a long, I thought Mr. Torigoe would answer the question but they gave it to Mr. Yuen or he volunteered. Well, Mr. Yuen is an attorney so he can give his legal opinion, too, but I thought he doesn't represent this Commission. And I think Commissioner Siracusa's request was for a legal opinion and I would loved to have heard it from Mr. Torigoe cause he represents this Commission, not Mr. Yuen. Mr. Yuen is an attorney but he doesn't represent this Commission. And if Mr. Torigoe agrees with Mr.Yuen's assessment of the jurisdiction of the County that they have on these lands, then I would entertain to all of you then why would this County need an MOA? Why do they need an MOA with the Department of Hawaiian Home to say that their zoning does apply or don't apply. If you don't have the right to it then you don't belong. The Department of Hawaiian Home has no business even to come in here and ask you. They have responsibilities to the beneficiaries, and maybe, as Uncle Sam mentioned there's about 5 or 7 of us who aze beneficiaries of the Act. So they have an obligation to the beneficiaries, not to the County of Hawaii. And the reason I raise that question is just that. When, in this case it was Waiakea Center who built the Wal-Mart in that area. When they got the lease they had an obligation under the HRS because the public was going to use that place. It was not built just for Hawaiians. It was for the public to use. So when they have an obligation that the public was going to use the area or use Hawaiian Home lands then they have an obligation to comply with everything that the County says needs to be put in place, everything. 19 That's getting permits, that's going tlu~ough every zoning requirement. Whatever they needed to do they needed to comply. But what has happened is they failed to or the County closed their eyes and allowed it to happen without having to get a permit for grubbing or whatever they needed, electrical and all of that. They didn't need to do that. But the beneficiaries have got to come before this. If I wanted to rezone some Hawaiian Home lands I'd have to come before you, I'd have to get a zoning permit, I'd have to get a plan designed, I've got to go get a building permit, electrical permit. As a beneficiary I've got to go do it. I believe you don't have the right to tell me that. But you do have a right to tell the Department of Hawaiian Home how they use their lands when they invite the general public onto the land. The Act was set aside to make lands available for us to use. We needed to be 50 percent the blood. I'm not going to dispute the blood. That's another great contention among us Hawaiians. But that's what the Act was made to do. Prince Kuhio set that aside, not to be used for Commercial. But when they bring Commercial, I think you have all the rights to argue that; and this is the conflicting reports that we're getting as Hawaiians. When they say even if we have the ban it doesn't apply on Hawaiian Home's. Even if we do have, it doesn't apply on Hawaiian Home. I can go to the Planning Department right now and put in a request to have my home, to build my home, and they will hit it with a stamp that says "Not Applicable." That's all you need to do. Just go there. They'll stamp it "Not Applicable" because it's on Hawaiian Home lands. They don't do that if Mr. Rodillas or somebody up in Kaumana did it. They don't go in there where it says "Not applicable." But in this County the message is "Not Applicable." So that's what I need for all of you to understand. I think the County has an obligation under HRS 171 to look at these lands. I am opposed to this, excuse me, I'm opposed to the amendment that would allow big box stores. So I'm in favor of the ban here. I would be against the creation of a specific area that you're talking because nothing in here addresses Hawaiian Home. So I think maybe you were right, Commissioner Siracusa, about saying that we should go to Hawaiian Home to azgue that. But we can't, we can't go to Hawaiian Home when they come to you. They came to you. It's Hawaiian Home who's going to continue to come to you because, they have an MOA with you, with this County. So I do say I'm against the ban here; and I'm against anything that would create a new zoning on Hawaiian Home lands because you don't have that authority to do that; and you may all want to seek a legal opinion from your legal representation, not Mr. Yuen. Mr. Yuen is the Planning Director, he's not the guy that gives you legal opinions. Thank you. ALAMEDA: Thank you. Any questions? Yes, go ahead. SIRACUSA: Just one for clarification. You say you support the ban and you aze opposed to the amendment Sa on our agenda item. You're opposed to superstores on any Hawaiian Home lands. Are you also then also opposed to superstores, period, not on Hawaiian Home lands? KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would be because, and that's only based on what I've read in the newspaper, because that's the only way we get information anyway, how we get any information. And they only suggested two places that you could have a superstore: One was on Hawaiian Home lands and the other was at Shipman Industrial Park, that's the only two places. And I doubt if Shipman is going to allow a, but they may and the guys in Puna may be happy; I don't know. But anything to deal with Hawaiian Home lands, no, because Hawaiian Home lands should be for pastoral, agricultural and residential. It should not be used for commercial. They have over 60 acres of our land being used there and everybody in Hilo benefits from it. 20 Everybody in Hilo benefits from 60 acres of Hawaiian Home lands being used while our list of waiting applicants grow every day. So yes if they build something for the general public on our lands you should have oversight. For the general public you should have the oversight because I think you, you are the people that should care for the general public. But if it's for me, nah,•stay away. Thank you. ALAMEDA: Thank you. Seeing no further questions, thank you Uncle Pat. Mahalo. All right last but not least, Donald, can you please state your name and address for the record. WESSELS: Donald Wessels. I'm from Pepeekeo. ALAMEDA: All right, go ahead. WESSELS: I've got a statement here. ALAMEDA: Sure. WESSELS: In my research of Wal-Mart I discovered that they aze not a monopoly but a monopsony. A monopsony produces the same economic problems as does a monopoly. While monopoly allows overchazging of customers, a monopsony can dictate underpaying suppliers. SIRACUSA: Would you bring your mike closer to your mouth, please. WESSELS: I'm sorry. This eventually forces the suppliers to cut comers, produce lower wages, poorer working conditions, and outsourcing of production and off-shoring to corporate tax havens. What this means locally is many of the so-called Hawaiian products sold in Wal-Mart aze made in such places as Nicazagua or China. And they don't use Hawaiian suppliers because they can't keep afloat with the low wholesale prices that Wal-Mart dictates. On top of forcing suppliers to move to countries that allow sweatshop labor or close down, they are forcing our small local mom and pop shops out of business, because they can't compete with Wal-Mart's low prices. On Hawaii Island we have local grocery stores, such as KTA, that will be threatened by Wal- Mart's Hilo and Kona superstores. I have been a faithful customer of KTA in Hilo for most of my 18 years of living in Hawaii, Hawaii County. I noticed that many of their employees aze working for them for much of the time that I have been their patron. I'm assuming that the reason the employees stay with KTA, for so long, is that they provide descent wages and benefits. The Wal-Mart supercenters will begin to undercut the prices of local grocery stores forcing them to narrow their profit margins. This will economically pressure local grocers to lower wages and minimize benefits or be forced out of business. As low wages will result ALAMEDA: Donald, sorry to interrupt. Are you going to read the -cause we've got the letter I believe. Fellow Commissioners, did you get WESSELS: I've never sent this. ALAMEDA: That sounds familiar to me. Could you summarize it or is it long? 21 WESSELS: I was about half way. ALAMEDA: Okay, go ahead. WESSELS: What Wal-Mart is doing is, what Wal-Mart is doing and it should be, got me off-line What Wal-Mart is doing is legal, it should not be. I'm here to say that we must end this monopsony process and protect our profits, our wages and our way of life here on the Island of Hawaii. These kinds of economic pressures are degrading the ability of Hawaii citizens to demand a living wage and local retailers and supplies from maintaining a decent profit. In summary, I support the Big Box Ban set forth by the Hawaii County Council. In fact, it doesn't go far enough to right this inherently undemocratic situation. We have a right to demand that companies who do business here be accountable to the citizens of this County. We need to make a living too. I leave you with these questions. How far will the economic squeeze go and who or what will stop it? Will our businesses be pressured to pay us 15 cents per hour to remain profitable while will Hawaii's labor force have to compete for slave wages around the world to have any employment at all? Mahalo. ALAMEDA: All right. Donald, thank you for keeping it concise. Any questions for our testifier? Okey, dokey, seeing none you maybe seated. Thank you for coming today. And thank you to the public for coming. That's what these hearings are for, you know, it's for the public to share with us your opinions, your perspectives, and then for us to think about it, and for us to kind of make a decision. So we appreciate you all coming. We will break for lunch and then we will talk about it more as Fellow Commissioners, but we won't vote on it today or we will talk a little bit about whether or not we're going to vote on part of it. But we'll definitely be taking it up, or half of it, again in Kona. So seeing no, Fellow Commissioners, if there's no objections for us breaking for lunch, I'd like to do that at this time, and come back probably at, let's see, about 1:45. Yeah? Okay. RECESSED The Chair called a recess at 12:35 p.m. RECONVENED The meeting reconvened at 1:54 p.m. ALAMEDA: The Hawaii County Planning Commission now returns to order. Welcome back. We're ready to talk a little bit about how we're going to proceed with this Agenda Item Nos. 5 and Sa. So I would like to turn it over to Norman to give us some lead. Go ahead. HAYASHI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for the Commissioners' information, just some minor problem that we may have is that we had put the County Council's amendment on the superstores as well as the Planning Director's proposed amendment at the next Kona meeting on June 22"d, and this was advertised in the papers on June 2"d. So there maybe some problems if the Commission were to act on the County Council's initiation seeing that we had advertised another hearing out in Kona, or an opportunity for the Kona people to discuss this particular request. But, you know, that's something as far as we're concerned we can, you know, have the newspapers cross that item out. That's not a problem. But just maybe a slight technicality. 22 ALAMEDA: Mr. Torigoe, do you see that as a slight technicality or a big technicality? TORIGOE: Well, once it has been published then you have the problem with like. if there's somebody in Kona who looks at the ad and says, okay, it's coming to Kona, before the Commission votes on it they're going to come back over to Kona and I'll have a chance to testify on it. So in that sense, you know, you probably, since it has been advertised you probably don't want to lull people You know, people who wanted to testify from Kona might have come today if they thought today was the last meeting on Item 5, is what I'm saying. ALAMEDA: Mr. Hayashi, you have anything to respond to what Mr. HAYASHI: No. I'll leave it up to the Commission to decide. ALAMEDA: Okay, I'll go with Commissioner Iwashita and then I'll go with Commissioner Siracusa. Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Given that, you know, I'm always, I would like to think of myself as the great protector of the right to be able to, you know, come out and express your views before this body. So with that disclosure, if it's appropriate I'll move to, you know, continue further hearing on this matter till the next Kona meeting. ALAMEDA: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Iwashita. Let's hear from Commissioner Siracusa first. Commissioner Siracusa? SII2ACUSA: Well, I'll cancel that. Well, I was hoping that, you know, like that we could just vote on one and get it out of the way. Because it's not the last chance because it will go back up to the Council and people will have a chance to testify at the Council, and probably on both sides of the island as well. ALAMEDA: That's true. That's correct. How about on this side? WATANABE: I'm all for just rehearing it at the Kona meeting as publicized. ALAMEDA: Okay. Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD: I agree. ALAMEDA: Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: Agree. ALAMEDA: Okay. Maybe a motion might be the next best step. IWASHITA: I move that we continue this matter to be, both Items 5 and Sa for further hearing at the next Kona meeting as noticed in the paper. WATANABE: Second. 23 ALAMEDA: Okay, motion made by Commissioner Iwashita to continue this to the next hearing in Kona, seconded by Commissioner Watanabe. Discussion? I guess we'll save the discussion for our Kona meeting. Okay. SIRACUSA: I had a question for the Director. And once we vote on this then I don't think I'll be able to ask him, right, because the matter will be closed ALAMEDA: Go ahead. SIRACUSA: Till the next Kona meeting. So, okay, we're talking about a definition of a superstore as a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, offering for sale more than 25,000 different stock keeping units, and dedicating more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area. What if someone decides to build something that is just a tinny bit under? Then it will I mean you could go just two feet under, two stock items under, you know, and then suddenly they will not meet the definition and so they could build it. I mean, I'm concerned about how tight do we want to hold these definitions. ALAMEDA: Okay, hold that question. We're going to get back to that. Commissioner Watanabe, you have something to add? WATANABE: Yeah, comment to Ms. Siracusa's question there. I believe you'll be able to discuss that even if we move, you know, to approve hearing this again in the Kona meeting because that's part of the stuff I expected to discuss today. You know, so I don't think whether we agree to hear it again at the Kona meeting that that precludes you from discussing that when we actually get into the subject. ALAMEDA: So you're saying rather than discuss it now we should just wait till the Kona meeting? WATANABE: I'm suggesting that we call for the vote, yeah, as far as whether we're going to Cause all we had was a motion and a second but no vote. ALAMEDA: Right, right. Commissioner Siracusa, are you okay with calling for the vote and then SII2ACUSA: If we can discuss then after that vote, yes. ALAMEDA: Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE: Well, you know, if you move to continue and it passes then you're going to basically continue iC at that point. So WATANABE: Do I have that wrong then? TORIGOE: What's that? No, I mean, you're saying that when we go to Kona then you can discuss that again, is that what you're saying, or 24 WATANABE: Oh, okay, maybe I had that wrong then. My understanding was we're just agreeing to hear it in Kona again, not that we're going to close this hearing today on that subject. Now maybe I interpreted that wrong. TORIGOE: Well, you know, if you want to entertain more discussion then maybe you can just lay aside this motion for the time being and, you know, entertain a little more discussion. IWASHITA: Without objection. TORIGOE: If there's no objection by anybody. ALAMEDA: Well, we have a motion on the table already, and seconded. So we could either WATANABE: I would withraw my second then. IWASHITA: Without objection. ALAMEDA: Is there any objection to withdrawing the motion so that we could have a "q and a" real quick on this? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: I believe legal counsel's suggestion was that we lay on the table the motion to continue the matter, and then we could have the discussion and bring it off the table, and then vote on it later. And that's, I have no objection to that. ALAMEDA: Mr. Torigoe, was that the TORIGOE: Yeah, that's fine. And if there's no objection by the Commission then you can just do that and have your discussion, and then, you know, bring it up again when you're done. ALAMEDA: Okay, then how do I retrack? v IWASHITA: You don't have to. Multi-level, we're doing multi-track. ALAMEDA: Okay. TORIGOE: Yeah, at this point if none of the Commissioners have any objections to laying the pending motion to continue on the table, then just lay it on the table right now and go ahead with your discussion; and then when you're done with your discussion then call up the motion again. ALAMEDA: All right. So we're in discussion mode. Director? YUEN: Well, okay, so that's done. I was going to answer a question. ALAMEDA: Okay, go ahead. 25 YUEN: The definition, all those nwnbers in the definition came from the Council bill and, yes, if you are 89,999 square feet you are not a supercenter or superstore, so yes. And this is not, I mean, in zoning and in other areas you do draw certain lines. You have a 55 mile an hour speed limit and you do 55 you're okay; and if you do 56 you're speeding. But it is true, and as I said these numbers did come from the Council bill and if you do not fit under all the criteria, then you're not considered a superstore and are not specially regulated under either bill. SIRACUSA: So just to clarify it, all three sets of criteria have to be met? YUEN: That's right. SIRACUSA: And so someone who wants basically a superstore but is willing to fudge a little bit on the numbers, like subtracting one from each set of numbers, then it would not fit the superstore criteria and they could go ahead and YUEN: Right, right. To take the ban bill, for example, actually you wouldn't have to fudge three sets, you just fudge one. If you do not exceed one of those criteria, any one of those criteria, then you're not a superstore under the definition, yes. SIRACUSA: Then I sort of fail to see how any of these, you know, the Council generated bill or your version, would, you know, address the definition of a superstore if all someone has to do is subtract one from any of those dimensions. YUEN: Well, it does apply. There are types of stores that, the Wal-Mart supercenter being one, that typically do exceed all these three classifications. If the bill were passed, say the ban bill were passed, and they came in with a modified version of their store that either devoted less square footage to groceries or had fewer overall the number of stock items or was smaller in the overall size it would not be a superstore, yes. , ALAMEDA: Commissioner Siracusa? SII2ACUSA: Okay, I had another question for the Director. And that is in the event that, in the case of the Director generated version which would set aside a certain zoning category that wouldn't come out of Ag land, for example, would come out of something that's already say Limited Industrial or whatever it is, would Rule 17 still apply or would we have to look at modifying Rule 17 specifically for superstores? YUEN: Good point. You would have to create a modification; or, actually that is a good point and we could in the course of this bill change it so that it said landscaping should be the same as, for example, MCX landscaping requirements. SII2ACUSA: Well, one of my concerns is that, you know, like you look at the KTA or Wal-Mart or by Macy's there, all of those parking lots are just, it reminds me of Lawrence of Arabia when they're standing at the edge of the desert and they say "This is the devil's anvil" and you can see the heat waves arising, you know. We really don't have any kind of, the landscaping, if those parking lots are in conformance then they're not really doing their job in terms of shading and preventing, you know, like that heat escape. Or certainly in terms of they pave so much that there's no opportunity really for rainwater to enter a permeable surface, 26 because there is no permeable surface and none of that water ends up in the aquifer. And it seems like, I mean, it's so hot. There's nothing from the edges of the parcel going through to the entrance of the store. It seems to me like if we're going to have something that's such a huge store which would generate a huge parking lot that we ought to be looking at amending Rule 17 also to put a lot more plantings, tree shading types of plantings in the body of the parking area. ALAMEDA: Commissioner Woodward. WOODWARD: I think the question you brought up about definition is the biggest drawback to this bill. Because from what we've heard and from what I've read you can build a 200,000 square foot store and only have 19,000 square feet in groceries and have as many stock keeping items you wanted, you're still not qualified as a superstore. In any one criteria as long as you fall below that guideline you're not a superstore, even if it's 200,000 square feet or pick a number. So, you know, I think bill is, I don't know I know what they're trying to achieve but I don't think it will do it. ALAMEDA: Other discussion or opinions? Commissioner Watanabe. WATANABE: Yeah. At the last meeting I voiced some concern about whether we were too narrowly defining the superstore. But that said I think I want to go back to the beginning portions of this and I agree with the Director and I agree with his arguments and I agree with what he's trying to do. Now whether any one of these bills has the potential to have the teeth to really accomplish what we're hoping we can accomplish is debatable, and I'm not sure I got the answer for that. But in light of all that's, and inclusive of what has been submitted today, because we just got one from Cades and Schutte that indicated that, well, now what is the difference between a 91,000 square foot superstore versus a 75,000 squaze foot K-Mart and a 20,000 square foot KTA Supermazket that's right next door? And I think, you know, as long as we approach it from a land use issue where we're looking at the concerns about infrastructure and traffic flow, then I think we're in pretty good shape. But I think if we try to regulate commerce with land use laws then I think we're headed down the wrong road. And that's why _ I'm really opposed to the Council's version of it. And I think overall the Director has done a pretty good job with whatever is available to him. ALAMEDA: All right. Any more discussion items before we sign off and revisit this agenda again? Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE: I've got one more agenda item and it's in keeping with this traffic deal. And earlier I had wondered whether there's a difference between say a 90,000-square foot single purpose store versus a 90,000-square foot multi-purpose store, if the traffic differs there, and if we can regulate it just by size rather than regulating it by how many items they keep, and whether there's 20,000 square feet of grocery store space or not, or if that's even a good idea. And I was hoping that maybe the staff could provide us something in the interim before we discuss this again in the Kona meeting. And that's what I was hoping to get. YUEN: We'll look for that. I know that in one of the nationally recognized traffic engineering studies that there is an estimated trip generation for a supercenter, specifically. And we can look at that and see if that's significantly different than other kinds of retail 27 establishments. They are based at least to some extent on actual studies and experiences. So we'll see if we can find that. ALAMEDA: All right. Seeing no further discussion, we have a motion on the table made by Commissioner Iwashita, seconded by Commissioner Watanabe, on continuing this matter to our next meeting in Kona. No discussion? Very good. Staff? HAYASHI: Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Yes. HAYASHI: Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE: Aye. HAYASHI: Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD: Aye. HAYASHL Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: Aye. HAYASHI: Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Aye. HAYASHI: And Chair Alameda? ALAMEDA: Aye. HAYASHI: Motion carries. All right, thank you. Thank you, Fellow Citizens, for showing up today. The discussion ended at 2:20 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary 28 PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 6, 2007 A regularly advertised hearing on the COUNTY COUNCIL AND PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 25 RELATING TO SUPERSTORES was called to order at 2:00 p.m. in the County of Hawaii, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Second Vice-Chairman Rodney Watanabe presiding. PRESENT: Rodney Watanabe ABSENT & EXCUSED: William Graham Takashi Domingo C. Kimo Alameda Alvin Rho Andrew Iwashita Shelly Ogata Rene' Siracusa Rell Woodward Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher Yuen, Planning Director Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 40 people from the public in attendance. INITIATOR: COUNTY COUNCIL Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, relating to Retail Establishments. The proposed amendment would not permit "superstores" in any zoning district. "Superstore" means a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, offering for sale more than 25,000 different stock k eeping units, and dedicating more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area to the sale of groceries. INITIATOR: PLANNING DIRECTOR Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, to create a "superstore" zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a "superstore" would be allowed. WATANABE: This is the second hearing that we're holding on the East side on the superstore ordinance. Couple of things to start off with, some ground rules. Okay, I do have like 21, at this point, people that want to testify on that. You're certainly all welcome to testify. However, because of the large number of people that wish to testify, I'd like you all to cooperate with us and limit your testimony to three minutes each so that we have time to listen to everyone. And, you know, after a while the attention span is gone. Even if you keep on talking we won't hear you anyway. That's the first item. 1 The second item is, you lrnow, it's a rather emotional issue so let's try not to make this a Big Island against Wal-Mari issue. It is an ordinance about a superstore and not about Wal-Mazt. And there's one other item that came up during our last meeting here; and that's in regard to how Hawaiian Home Lands determines their policy and whether, you know, they're going to allow a Wal-Mart or whatever it is to be developed on Hawaiian Home lands; and this is not the venue to azgue that point. We don't have any jurisdiction about how they govern themselves. So I'd appreciate it if we'd stay away from those issues. With that, while it is customary for the Planning Commission to hear items of this nature on both sides of the island, I don't believe it's a requirement in any of our rules. And we did attempt to have a hearing of this nature on the West side. But we were unable to establish a quorum at our last meeting, so that meeting was cancelled. And I've also been informed that we are up against a timeframe. We have 60 days, I believe, to respond; and so for the Commissioners I'm hoping that one way or another, whether it's for or against, that we'll be able to, you know, get together and forward a recommendation to the Council regazding these issues. Yes? SIRACUSA: I just wanted to remind you that before the Kona meeting, the meeting before the Kona meeting, we did take testimony from the public on the superstore issue. WATANABE: Yeah, that's right, you're right. So it's not as though it was completely ignored. So with that, I think I'd like to turn over the mike over to Mr. Yuen so he can explain the proposed amendments. YUEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, Members of the Planning Commission, members of the public. The Planning Commission is here in its role as advising the County Council on changes in the Zoning Code. Unlike most of the things that we look at, which are site specific zoning amendments, these involve changes to the Zoning Law itself, you know, changes of the basic rules of the Zoning Code. The Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the County Council but the County Council makes the final decision. You actually have two recommended bills concerning superstores in front of you. One was initiated by the County Council. Council Member Higa actually drafted the bill and would ban a type of retail outlet that the bill calls a superstore. Essentially that's a grocery store attached to a discount, a retail discount store. Now, and the second bill was something that I put together after reviewing that bill because the Planning Department has to make a recommendation to the Council on any changes that the Council initiates to the Zoning Code. This bill would not ban such stores outright but put them in a special zoning category. So it would be necessazy, and since nothing is zoned for a superstore cun•ently, any site for a superstore would have to be rezoned to become a superstore site. So those are the two options that are in front of the Planning Commission. The third option which would be not to change the Code, and I think it's worth discussing that. Under the present Zoning Code what's called a superstore in these bills would simply be considered another form of retail establishment, and it would be permitted in a commercial zone or an MCX zone, a Mixed Industrial/Commercial zone. So, for example, it could be opened up on any sufficiently large vacant zoned commercial site, like along Henry Street or the Gateway Center in Keaau or Honokohau Business Park. Where you're at with these two is a little bit 2 different, and where the condition is at in terms of the process. Aud let me talk about the process just a little bit. The Council-initiated bill has been heard on both sides of the island, was put on the agenda and heard on both sides of the island already. And on the Council-initiated bill, the Commission has a time deadline to make its recommendation to the Council. If the Commission doesn't have five votes, either as a favorable or unfavorable recommendation on that, it still goes up to the Council, but as an unfavorable recommendation. The deadline will be before the next meeting, so this is your last meeting to act on the Council-initiated bill. The Planning Director-initiated bill was available for public comment when the Council-initiated bill was heard in Kona a month and a half ago. In a way it has been, the people have had the opportunity to see it It was public, people could comment on it. But it actually wasn't put on, we didn't have time to put it on the agenda for that meeting in Kona. So just to be consistent with our practice in the past of having an item that makes an island-wide change heazd formally on both sides of the island, we're recommending that the Planning Commission defer action on the Planning Director-initiated bill until the July 20~h meeting. This will result in the two bills coming up to the Council at different times. The Council controls it own schedule. And the Council can decide whether they want to wait and hear both bills at the same time or if they want to take them out of sequence, because they're coming up out of sequence. But that will be up to the Council. So just to repeat, you know, what the substance of the bill is again, the Council-initiated bill would have a definition for a superstore. It has been crafted so that according to the Council it doesn't apply to more wholesale type outlets like Costco that don't have a very lazge number of individual types of items for sale, but it would apply to the typical Wal-Mart supercenter. The Planning Director-initiated bill would not ban such stores but it would say that the only place you could put them is in a new type of zoning district, so that you would have to rezone an area to have a superstore. It limits the areas that you can have that kind of a superstore to certain existing zoning districts and areas that are designated for either High Density Urban or for IndustriaUCommercial mixed use in the General Plan. And the final thing is if nothing is passed then it would simply be legal to establish a store like this in any Commercial or _ Industrial/Commercial zoned area. A final thing I'd like to say is that there has been a lot of public testimony that is also directed against Big Boxes. None of these bills affect what you would call a typical big box retail outlet like a Home Depot or a Costco. The County of Kauai, I'm not sure if they passed it. Well, the last I saw they were on the verge of passing something like this. I did look at this as a possibility, as an alternative; but on an island here where we have two Wal-Marts, two Home Depots, a Costco and a K-Mazt, it seems like that it would be definitely a case of locking the barn door after the horse had gone away to institute a ban or other serious control on big boxes in general. So, we also have lots new public testimony on this. And there aze lots of people who have signed up, so I'll stop right now and take any questions that the Commissioners may have. WATANABE: Are there any questions for the Director from the Commission? Well, I have a comment, Mr. Yuen. First of all, I want to thank you for the material you sent on the traffic study; and I thought, you know, by having that we could quantify what type of traffic, level of traffic anyway. But now that I have it I don't know what I could do with it aside from saying, yes, supermarkets do generate more traffic. And the reason I brought it up is because initially I thought the definition of superstore was possibly too narrow. But it seems from this 3 report or information that you've provided us it's very difficult to quantify what level of traffic we should be looking at. But it also seems obvious to me that possibly the current definition of superstores is adequate even though there are a lot of ways to get around it. And with that, if there ace no other questions, I guess we'll be open for public testimony. So once again, I'd like to remind you please be concise and keep your testimony to three minutes. And I'll call up the first four people on the list. I have Terrence Lee, David Paulson, Patrick Kahawaiolaa and Doug Arnott. Is Doug Arnott here? PUBLIC: He had to leave. WATANABE: If he's not here, I'll call up the next person then, Scarlett O'Hara Bill. Would you come up, please. Thank you. Okay, would you all raise your right hand so I can swear you in, please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: Yes. WATANABE: Yes, okay. And I'll start from my right, so Patrick you would be up first. And, once again for the record, would you state your name and address prior to providing your testimony. KAHAWAIOLAA: Yes. Good afternoon. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Planning Commission, my name is Patrick Kahawaiolaa. I live at 1260 Lama Road, Panaewa, Hawaii. I am here to give testimony based first on the Planning Director's initiative to amend the Chapter 25, Zoning Code, Hawaii County, to create a superstore zoning district where zoning or superstores would be allowed. I gave testimony at the first hearing that they had, the one before this, and I was in opposition to a superstore. However, I questioned the fact that a rezoning, everything is being talked about a superstore has to do with Hawaiian Home Lands, so it goes without saying. And I'd like to get a clarification at this time, maybe not by the Planning Director which gave you the clarification the last time, but from Mr. Torigoe, the Corporation _ Counsel, as to whether the County has an opportunity or the authority to rezone lands having the status of Hawaiian Home lands. Because what has been said in the papers is this, even if they did a ban in Hawaii County or created this zone, it would not apply to Hawaiian Home Lands. So for purpose of clarification, this Commission needs to understand what can happen. Even if you say there is no ban or there is a ban and they want to do a superstore on Hawaiian Home lands, are they now allowed to circumvent the County's compliance laws and ordinances and build it anyway, which they did with the Waiakea Center? So that's my opposition, my opposition is in favor of a ban, opposition to a superstore and a zoning if it has anything to do with Hawaiian Home lands on this island because we're an island state. We're already talking about developments that have created a lot of problems in the past; and I just hope that this Planning Commission does not continue to do that in the future, because we're now being subjected to all the poor planning that was done, i.e. in Puna, in Hawaiian Paradise Park and those places. I just need to let you know I am advocate for Hawaiian Homes. I believe the Hawaiian Home lands should be used for trust obligations, which was to provide home, housing, pastoral In light of the rhetoric that you may hear from the State of Hawaii and this Department of Hawaiian Homes to say we need to generate income and so therefore we need to lease these lands to 4 corporations, the State of Hawaii made a very generous settlement of $600,000,000 to the Department of Hawaiian Home. And I think that's a heck of a lot of money to put infrastructure on, rather than to go get general leasing. So I would be opposed to it. I leave you with this one caveat, that development in Hilo was allowed to happen again up in the Waiakea Uka area when they wanted to develop there; and how it was developed, it was developed by the County of Hawaii taking 25 acres of Hawaiian Home lands for the flood control. The flood control is there, that's what allowed the upper parts of Hilo to be developed; and that flood control starts at the 4- mile bridge, ascends right through the Department of Hawaiian Home lands, and it's there. Today I'm ashamed to say that the County has not maintained it properly. It's overgrown again. So it will create a problem at the next flood that comes down through that area. But I believe it's time that the County takes a stand. And, well, anyway, the Planning Commission does after being correctly advised by your Corporation Counsel Please don't get me wrong. If you have the right to do it, please by all means go ahead and do it. If you don't have the right to do it, don't do it. And when I say the right, I mean the authority and the jurisdiction to do it based on the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, and all the other opinions that came out that says you couldn't rezone, you couldn't do this. And what is being brought to light in the paper is that they're saying even if you created a ban we're still going to go do it on Hawaiian Homes because you don't have the authority to do it, to stop us anyway. So I think that's an arrogant attitude to take in spite of the fact. And remember, what the Department of Hawaiian Home do does not reflect on the beneficiaries. Hawaiian Home is a State entity, so thank you. WATANABE: I understand your emotion. And, personally, to be honest with you, I think Hawaiian Home lands should be used for the Hawaiians also. However, I think I should allow our counsel to briefly explain to you that, and I think he's going to say this, that we really don't have jurisdiction over them. Okay? KAHAWAIOLAA: Well, I need for them to know. WATANABE: And so with that I'm going to turn it over to counsel. KAHAWAIOLAA: Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. TORIGOE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish that there was a real crystal clear simple answer that can be given to this. I think generally speaking there is no case that really addresses this exactly in Hawaii. What we end up with, I think the best thing we can probably say is that with respect to commercial uses like this it becomes, you know, there's some question. It has not been exactly decided. But I think what we fall back on at this point is that, what it boils down to is that when you trace down what you can trace through the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act and HRS, Chapter 171, that the placement of Commercial and Industrial and such business uses is supposed to be at least consistent with County zoning requirements. And so basically the County has entered into a memorandum of agreement with DHHL which tries to accomplish that. Where there is a pallet of County zoning requirements, DHHL retains the ability to designate what kind of zoning should apply to its lands, and then the County along with DHHL administers that zoning consistent with other County zoning. So that's, I think, the most concise answer I can give you. WATANABE: Thank you. Are there auy other questions from the Commissioners of the testifier? No. 5 KAHAWAIOLAA: Mr. Chairman, may 1 respond just to one thing that Mr. Torigoe said, please. WATANABE: Sure, sure. KAHAWAIOLAA: Excuse me, yes. I understand a Memorandum of Agreement was made. I just need the general public and I need this Commission to understand the MOA is not set in concrete. It can be at the behest of either pazty cancelled with a 180-day notice. The point I'm trying to make is the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act is set in concrete. That's concrete. You need to change it, you need to amend it, which I think they did. They circumvented it by doing an MOU or an MOA. But if you need to change anything, I think one of Hawaii's greatest justices, Justice Richardson, said this, "If you want to change and amend the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, seek the consent of Congress." That's where it lies. So I thank you very much. MOAs doesn't mean anything to native Hawaiians. It alleviates the County maybe from law suits and stuff like that; but, trust me, that is not how you deal with Hawaiian Home Lands. So I thank you very much for that explanation, Mr. Torigoe; and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to give testimony. But I'm for a ban and against any kind of superstores here in Hawaii, especially on Hawaiian Homes. Thank you. WATANABE: Okay, thank you. Scarlett, right? BILL: Hello, I've been in Hawaii WATANABE: Would you state your name and address, please. BILL: Thank you. My name is Scarlett O'Haza Bill. I've lived in Hawaii since 1972. I came by way of Japan. I was an entertainer. My husband and I moved here and had a son at Kapiolani Hospital; and we adopted a daughter who arrived from Korea. This is a beautiful, beautiful island with a wonderful blending of cultures and peoples. And we've loved living in Kona for 27 years. In the last year our revenue has dropped 60 percent because of the choking traffic that has happened over the last 5 years with all of the development on Alii Drive trying to take caze of the sewage system and build communication lines on land that is wet underneath it all the way to Kuakini Highway. It should be a national park, all that azea. There was an argument last week about the heiau right in front of the King Kamehameha, that azea that's all sacred to the Hawaiian people; and no one ever talked about well, bring back the beach, bring back the beach. They instead, they built a big cement pier. We're not sending out cattle any more. But it was there for a revenue, for revenue; and the big bucks they're coming in with a big something that we're going to see that has no air flow, really. If you spent a day with all the zombies, all of our wonderful friends working graveyard shifts in the Wal-Mart and the other big buildings, you would just know what this is doing to the wonderful aloha, Aloha awinala, Aloha ka kahiaka, you know, where is that happening. Where is that happening any longer, the iaos that stop in our trees going up the mountain to Hualalai? I live on the corner of Anini and Hinalani so Pm 73 Anini Street. We've been there 19 years and we see all the traffic that comes up from Costco. So I'm the one that puts the sign on the wall 6 that says "Tranquility Zone." And you're welcome to slop on a Saturday and come in and say prayers for those who axe serving for you in Iraq, or wherever. And it's silent. It's a wonderful time to relax and be in that atmosphere. We think it's a beautiful home; but we'd not be able to live here any longer because of the choking traffic. No one can come into town any longer. No one can find the aloha. Such a shopping village that you're creating there mentally will bring in 20,000 cars easily. That's just inevitable. You don't see it, you live in Hilo. We wanted to go to the meeting and everybody who wanted to be here can't be here because they're working, trying to hang on to their small businesses. You can go to KTA and get wonderful detergent for $4.95, you can't get that in the big, the others. When you walk out half, half the amount of what you spent in a big store you can get in a local store. And that has to be thought about; and if you don't think about it then think about the fact that there's a fire under that dumpster in front of the police station in Kona. They had a fire under that. You know, it has been buried there. And that's what it's going to be when they're moving things like the Dillingham did off the coast in Honolulu. We watched Waipahu drown, we watched how the big building they would put in for the big supercenter that they did there, how you get lost. You can't find your way back to Wahiawa, you can't find yourself to Mililani. You'd get lost for an hour if you drive. It's going to happen like that in five years, would be my forecast from what we've seen. We only had one light, one there at the corner of, like a small Pay For Less, Long's Drug store coming into Kona; and look at it now. And we've been here 27 years. So my fear is that it's, again, planning, that if you can think beyond where we are now and the pressure you're under, my esteem friends who were voted by the people, for the people, of the people, you're going to, the highest minded individuals that we're going to have, you're grand, gentlemen and ladies. And I know you all. I know you, I heaz what you do. But if you look at the plan, look at the slopes that you can put that on. Put that superstore somewhere else, say more centrally located, Waimea area. You know, give them a chance. Just come, come stay at _ my house; and I'll have to give you a shower because you're going to wait in line for a long time. Now we do have a light there because we've had so many people die in accidents coming up Hinalani and going down and not being able to put on the brakes and going on to the Kaahumanu Highway. You can really die in those intersections. Think what it's going to be when you have a big van and you have a big cabin and it's full of stuff that just came in from China that you're going to put in one of those stores? It's not for the people and of the people. For the people and of the people are these small family operations that have generations, like Teshima's Restaurant, and from just shave ice to what she has today, a 100-year birthday, what her family has done for this island. And think of how many we've lost who had to move to the mainland because they can't live in it anymore. You have to have a big truck to be important. Do we need any more? Thank you very much. WATANABE: Thank you. Are there any questions of this testifier? DOMINGO: Question. WATANABE: Go ahead. 7 DOMINGO: Thank you for coming. You said that you have a business? BILL: Yes, sir, 27 years. We are probably one of the very few jewelers on the island who repair and remake everything you have in a broken smoking box. If you're not smoking any more, you have broken chains, you have broken My husband and those who work with him can repair everything and recycle them. DOMINGO: So what you're saying is that you're being impacted by those large stores that have been built? BILL: Yes, we're being impacted by people who give you shoddy merchandize that's going to break. DOMINGO: Or is it because of the stores being there and the traffic that has been generated that in essence then prevents people from coming to your BILL: Prevents, yes, sir. There's no parking DOMINGO: So there's direct and indirect effect on your business? BILL: That's right, that's right. It's a very sad condition for all of them. I look at them and they all look sad, all of these families we've known for years. They're working under great stress because they can get something maybe not the quality of what they would get from these small operations. They just don't get the quality, nor do they get the service. DOMINGO: Yeah, okay. Excuse me. BILL: Yes, sir. DOMINGO: Now you had mentioned that you had other friends who have been here. Are they in business also? BILL: Yes, sir. They're all working as hard as they can. DOMINGO: And they have the same sentiments as you? BILL: Yes. We work seven days a week. Yes, sir, same sentiment. I have a lot of signatures. I'm sure you've received at least 100 from those friends, because we did have a meeting at the Big Island Grill and, I mean, they were totally, all those business friends are real, they're real benefactors like you. They have children and grandchildren and they've worked hard to build a town that's built upon the history and the aloha. DOMINGO: So it would be proper to interpret your presentation to mean that there should be a ban for those BILL: I think this should be banned; and it could be moved to an area that is certainly not going to be choked with just standing in traffic trying to get out of town to go home 8 all the way to Honaunau, and not having, there's no way The traffic is abominable. There's no road length, there was never any plamring with any road length. We did go to Tenerife, Canary Islands with my daughter my Korean daughter married a wonderful person and we saw that they have these rounds where you approach from, each plaza is a round, so you go •in a circle. You never have to stop; and so that the flow of the traffic is always there. It takes more room to built Chat kind of a flow but we have the land on this island to exercise an opportunity to do a better highway planning road, Commission planning, that would probably DOMINGO: Thank you. WATANABE: We might be getting off the subject though, yeah? BILL: Yes. WATANABE: Okay, please. Any other questions? Thank you. I guess you must be Mr. Terrence Lee? LEE: Yes, sir. WATANABE: Would you state your name and address for the record, please. LEE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Terrence Lee. I'm an attorney representing a grass roots coalition that exists statewide that is opposed to superstores in Hawaii. We have submitted extensive written testimony to the Commission and I hope that each Commissioner will carefully study and review the materials we've submitted, pazticulazly the studies that aze attached to the exhibits to our letter that are case studies of how superstores have impacted other communities on the mainland, and particularly the negative impacts on small businesses and local businesses that have existed for 20-30~yeazs. There is one case study, I think, of particular significance; and that has to do with the City of Calexico in California that has a population of approximately 30,000, slightly smaller than Hilo, but I think warrants careful _ consideration by the Commissioners in determining how you're going to decide on what your recommendation is to the Council. Hoomalu Hawaii is opposed to the Planning D'irector's recommended ordinance to establish a particular zoning classification for superstores. We believe that the empirical evidence and studies that exists on the mainland relative to superstores makes it abundantly clear that a superstore in the County of Hawaii is a bad idea. It will create adverse impacts on the community that far surpasses and outweighs the perceived positive impacts, specifically I think, you know, lower prices and goods. To the extent the Commission is considering establishing a superstore classification, Iwould urge the Commission to, at a minimum, require as part of the approval process an economic impact assessment before approving any development of a superstore. I think that is unquestionably the paramount concern with superstores; and I think in a small community like Hilo, in fact, all of our communities, Honolulu being the exception because it is so much larger than all the other neighbor islands But I think at a minimum an economic assessment of what the impact of a superstore will be to the entire community is a critically important consideration. Thank you. WATANABE: Do any of the Commissioners Mr. Woodward? 9 WOODWARD: Yes, sir. As always the devil is in the details. And as an attorney you must realize that unfortunately no matter where your feelings lie this law will not work. The reason for that is the definition. And apart from whether or not Hawaiian Home Lands is autonomous, that's one consideration. But the way the County Council has drafted their provision it says superstore means a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, number one; offering for sale more than 25,000 different stockkeeping units, number two; and dedicating more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area to the sale of groceries. Well, to be a superstore you have to satisfy or violate, depending how you look at it, all of those three criteria. So if Target, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Costco came in and wanted to build a 250,000 square foot building with 80,000 stockkeeping items but they only dedicated 19,000 square feet to groceries, they're not a superstore. So that's the problem I have with this. And this is a question that Commissioner Siracusa brought up at the last meeting, the devil is in the details. The definition is such that anybody can get around it. So I'm afraid, you know, that this is flawed legislation. And regardless of whether or not the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands is autonomous, it's bad law; and I don't see how it can work. LEE: Commissioner Woodward, I think your point is well taken. However, it is the responsibility of the County Council to draft appropriate definitions for a superstore and, you know, I think it is certainly within its authority to redraft the ordinance in such a manner that it can survive any legal challenge, whether it's vague or what have you, whatever legal challenges are appropriate. But I think the primary responsibility of the Planning Commission is, as a matter of public policy, whether it believes superstores are appropriate in the County of Hawaii or not. And I think if you go back to the County Council with a clear message that at least as far as this Commission is concerned, superstores are not appropriate for the County of Hawaii, the Council and its legislative aids and Corporation Counsel's office can draft the legislation in a manner that it will survive legal challenge. I mean it has been done on the mainland, they can borrow legislation from the other municipalities on the mainland,that have been challenged and survived such challenges. So, yes, the devil is in the details; and I believe it is the Council's responsibility to fulfill the challenge of drafting a law that will survive any legal challenge, but it is this Commission's responsibility to determine as a matter of public policy whether superstores are appropriate or not. Thank you. WATANABE: Are there any questions for this testifier? Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA: Yes, it's my recollection that when I raised this question the last time Director Yuen pointed out that the figures given; and these criteria are really a lot less already than what we would normally expect on the mainland for a superstore. Am I remembering that correctly, Director Yuen? YUEN: I didn't come up myself with a number of stockkeeping units, so that part I can't verify. The sizes though, the 90,000 square feet is considerably less than the typical superstore. And although I partially agree with what Commissioner Woodward says in that yes, you can manipulate, a business can choose to manipulate one of these parameters and not be a superstore any anymore, it would wind up not being On the other hand, it would wind up not fitting the actual model of the Wal-Mart superstore any more. In other words, they would have to modify their typical business which is, you now, they have a stock kind of business Chat they put out and they would have to make a considerable modification to that in order not to be a ]0 superstore. You would end up with a large department, retail department store that had a grocery store in it; but you would probably have to cut down the number of individual types of units that, different types of items that you had on the floor. WATANABE: May I make a comment to that I think the Director probably summarized it best when he said we shouldn't use planning rules to legislate economics, you know, and therefore I was hoping that we could find something that was based more around traffic as opposed to what type of store or what type of items we would try to legislate. And based on that and the information he provided, it seems obvious that supermarkets and probably the amount of items that are for sale are trip generators. And based on that I think then you're still focusing in on the amount of traffic that is generated by a particular store, whether it be a Wal-Mart or whatever. And I think if we stick to that then we're being true to what we're empowered to do. I really don't think we're here to legislate the type of stores. LEE: On that particular point, Mr. Chairman, I would bring the Commissioners attention to Exhibit 6 of our written testimony which, I'm sorry Exhibit 5 of our written testimony which is an article entitled "Trip Generation Characteristics of Free-Standing Discount Superstores." WATANABE: Okay, thank you. Are there any further questions for this? Yes, Mr. Rho. RHO: I'm not sure which one I'm looking at because they look exactly the same, but I think it's mentioned in both. It basically starts on page 4 of 10. It's the last bullet; and then it runs to the next page, page 5 of 10. And it ends with, "...is now part of a growing number of dead Wal-Marts littering cities." Can you elaborate on that. LEE: Well, I mean, you know, we are simply paraphrasing the conclusion that this particular author came to in studying the impact that Wal-Mart had on particular communities that it opened a superstore in. But I think the point there is that because the sheer size of a Wal-Mart superstore, or any superstore for that matter, and i['s ability to take advantage of economies of scale and other cost-saving measures that exists when you do business in that magnitude, they're able to offer prices far below what smaller competitors can achieve. You know, it's not uncommon for wholesalers or manufacturers to give volume discounts based on how much you order. The more you order, the cheaper you can buy it for. Therefore, the cheaper you can sell it to your customers and still make a profit. Big Box retailers, superstores operate on extremely thin margins. I mean it's no secret that Costco derives a significant percentage of its profits from its membership fees. When businesses are able to maintain those low prices and stay in business, they inevitably will drive out a business, their weaker competitors. And I think that is the phenomenon that occurred here in this study. I think this study is actually attached in full as Exhibit 4 to our written testimony. But the danger is that once the competitors no longer exists, then what will the superstores do? Well, these are profit-driven organizations. This is apublicly-traded company. Publicly-traded companies' sole master is the stock value that Wall Street will assign to their shares. And what drives the stock price is their return on their invested capital. And so the more profits they can generate the higher the returns. And that's why ultimately it's believed that the perceived cost savings that the consumer will enjoy through a superstore really doesn't exist. 11 WATANABE: Thank you. We have any other questions for this puticular testifier? No? Okay, thank you. I believe David Paulson, would you PAULSON: Correct, David Paulson, I'm here with Mr. Lee. WATANABE: I would need you to state your address though. PAULSON: Excuse me, 3254 Hoolulu Street in Honolulu. WATANABE: Okay. PAULSON: I actually just wanted to address your question. I believe you were talking about the growing number of dead Wal-Marts and you wanted elaboration on that. What happens, and this article was focusing on Wal-Mart's supercenters specifically but it's applicable to the type of business. What will happen is there will be an initial retail store and then very closely to that store they will open a supercenter, close the initial store and it just lays dormant. And so that's the dead Wal-Marts littering the city. It adds to the Urban blight. And that was what I believe, if that was what you were asking. That's what this section was talking about. RHO: I understand that. But I guess, and I understand that profit motive, etc. but when you're speaking, you're speaking as if it hasn't happened yet, that it will happen. I'm not talking about in Hawaii. I'm talking about wherever it's happening now. And I wanted to know whether or not there was any documentation on how many stores that happened to, and the social blight, etc. You know, I wanted to see it in black and white actually. So maybe if you can either point me to the right number PAULSON: It's Exhibit 6, is where these are coming from. RHO: It's six. Okay, thank you. BILL: Is it possible to speak out of turn and give a perfect example in Kona? WATANABE: We did provide with you with your opportunity. And if we did do what you're suggesting, we would actually never get done with this meeting. You know, we understand it's an emotional issue, okay. PAULSON: And essentially I second everything that Mr. Lee has said. And to the extent that we've submitted testimony that I hope you've already reviewed And we do address the issue of zoning and DHHL lands, I understand you don't want to get into that. If you do have questions, I'd be happy to answer, attempt to answer any that you have. WATANABE: Are there any other Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIl2ACUSA: Well, I just wanted to let these two testifiers know that there are very extensive testimony. And, by the way, Commissioner Rho, one of them is for Agenda Item No. 6 and the other one is for Agenda Item No. 7, they were only given to us this morning; and with a full agenda, we have not had time to adequately review them. However, you know, since there will be another Kona meeting at least on the Planning Director's ]Z WATANABE: No. SIRACUSA: No? YUEN: On the Director's bill, yes. WATANABE: Oh, on the Director's bill. Oh, I stand corrected. SIl2ACUSA: Okay, then we will have an opportunity, not to review it for the Council- generated resolution but for the Planning Director's resolution. In the meantime, if you would want to point us specifically to any specific land use focused parts of this so that we can make sure to read them for the next meeting we would be very happy to do so. Well, I'm speaking for myself, I would. PAULSON: Well, the entire testimony relates to land use. The final section has to do with zoning and DHHL lands; and that's going to start on Page 5 of Item 6 agenda and also page 5 of Item 7. WATANABE: Very good. That's it? SIRACUSA: Thank you. WATANABE: Okay, you maybe seated then. Thank you. PAULSON: Thank you. WATANABE: Let me proceed with the next four testifiers. I have Fujii, Bryan Halsey, Terrance Crowley, and Greg Gauthier. Did I pronounce that correctly? Donohue Fujie? FUJII: Fujii. WATANABE: Fujii, sorry. Why don't we once again begin Well, would you all raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. WATANABE: Thank you. Okay, for each of you, would you state your name and address for the record prior to your testimony. And let's begin with you, Donohue. FUJII: Good afternoon, Chairman, Commission Members. My name is Donohue Fujii. I'm with the engineering firm of Austin, Tsutsumi and Associates. We are a civil engineering firm specializing in commercial development and traffic engineering. At this time, I just want to offer some clarification to an ITE General Article that may have been circulated. That's related to the trip generation rates for supercenters. And the article is written by Georgiena Vivian, published in the ITE Journal dated, I think, August 6, 2006. We have reviewed that article and offer the following comments. 13 That article meets publication standards of ITE Journal The article represents a summary of data collected by the autha~ and their conclusions. The article does not indicate whether the article, the author has sent that data to be included in the upcoming versions of the ITE trip generation. I'd like to note that the ITE trip generation reference is the nationally accepted standard guide for calculating vehicular trips, and not the ITE Journal. On the bottom of the, if you look at page 31, beginning page 32 of that article, they list the limitations of that study. The locations only were studied from the south central US and only five sites were studied. Only p.m. counts were taken, no Saturday or daily trips were counted. I do want to point out that the study is also based upon supercenters larger than 200,000 square feet with three of the five having a gas station. All sites had garden centers, grocery, pharmacy, photo center, portrait studio, and a fire and Tube express. Some also had a business center and McDonalds. According to the Journal's publication printed on the front cover, the publication does print a disclaimer. The disclaimer quotes "Opinions expressed herein are those of the author's and do not reflect official ITE or Magazine policy unless so stated." There is no reason for my firm to dispute the accuracy of the trip generation rates documented for those five sites. However, it is in our opinion that the noted trip generation rates are not applicable to the proposed supercenters plan for Hawaii. The most significant reason for that invalidity is that the Hawaii supercenter program does not include gas stations and a fire Tube express use. As most of us know and have experienced, the gas station use, especially discount gas like Costco, are significant trip generators. I also want to touch upon the claim by some supporters of the bill that supercenters will generate 20,000 more vehicles per day. There maybe some stores on the mainland that have generated as much as those 20,000 vehicular trips per day, but we do not expect that kind of level of trips for the proposed centers in Hawaii. I do want to note that 20,000 vehicle trips does not mean 20,000 new vehicles as one vehicle will create two trips. And in Hawaii much of the trips will be further reduced by as much as 20 to 30 percent by way of pass-by trips. Pass-by trips are vehicles that are already on the road system. Thank you. WATANABE: Thank you. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Yes. Are you referring to this green handout that the Commissioners received here which states that this was the Institute of Transportation Engineers, Trip Generation Manual, that these figures came out of that? Is that what FUJII: No. I'm referring to the article shown in the ITE Journal which is named Trip Generation SII2ACUSA: Well, this is from that Journal. FUJII: I'm not sure. I never saw that green sheet, Ma'am. But I'm referring to the article in the ITE Journal dated August 6, 2006 and written by Georgiena Vivian. SIRACUSA: I'm not sure that we even have that. That's why I don't know what you're talking about. 14 FUJII: It's an article that has been circulated by many of the supporters of the bill. SIRACUSA: Okay, okay. It's in this. That's what you're saying? FUJII: I'm not sure where, but SIRACUSA: The previous testifier's. FUJII: Yes, that is the correct article. SIIZACUSA: Okay. I'm wondering, considering what you're saying about it's not relevant to Hawaii necessarily because it was done in the south and different size stores with different types of services being offered, I'm wondering how relevant this would be if we looked at those same parameters. What Planning Department staff sent out to us on the trip generation that Commissioner Watanabe had requested, where do these figures come from? Do they come from stores that are the same size that have the same type, you know, all of those same parameters that this testifier was discussing. Are they just as invalid for this as for that? YUEN: Well, this comes out of a Nationally recognized manual that is normally used in doing, in estimating vehicle trips that would be generated by a particular type of retail use and by the Institute of Transportation and Engineers, they have, and then we attached to iYa description of the type of store that each of these represents. Land Use Code A-13 is a free standing discount superstore. They aze, and then you see the description, it's afree-standing discount store and, which is also described. A free standing discount store is a thing like a Wal- Mart or a K-Mart, with the exception that they also contain afull-service grocery department under the same roof that shares entrances and exits with the discount store azea. Sothis basically describes a Wal-Mart supercenter. I mean, it's the most typical type of retail establishment. Now what the, then what the vehicle generation, the trip generation per thousand foot square gross floor area, you see the comparisons? And we just took the averages. If we want to make it _ a half inch thick we could have given all of the data but, and there's quite a vaziety, you know, between one store and another store, between one super market and another super mazket. There will be quite a variety and there's quite a range. But we took the averages, and you have the averages here. So what this shows as a superstore is very much comparable to what we were talking about in this bill. What it talks about as a supermarket is comparable to your typical Safeway. Shopping center is a shopping center with a bunch of different kinds of stores in it; and the discount store is like a big box retail establishment like a Wal-Mart or a K-Mart. WATANABE: Are there any other questions? SIItACUSA: No. I'll hold up. WATANABE: Anyone else have any questions? Any other Commissioners? So, okay, now Bryan? Is that right? GAUTHIER: Greg, Gregory Gauthie (phonetic). WATANABE: Greg Gauthier? IS GAUTHIER: Gauthier? Well, I say Gauthie (phonetic). You can say Gauthier, I'll respond. WATANABE: Gauthie (phonetic), oh, I'm sorry, Gauthier (phonetic). GAUTHIER: No, no, no. It's okay. They are silent, French, wacky French people. Chairman Watanabe, I don't want to make you perceive that I didn't hear what you said earlier about this just being about trips, so to speak, and I understood this to be the Planning Commission, though I have not read your preamble. I wanted to kind of talk about, use my three minutes to talk about the planning as it impacts the community based upon my perception. Would be WATANABE: Yeah, sure. GAUTHIER: Okay, thank you. Commissioner Chairman Watanabe, Commissioners, mahalo for this. My name is Gregory Gauthier. I represent the ILWU. I believe that it is up to you good community leaders to assist in directing the community choices you preside over to move us as a community,~as a society, forward. One should not just look to a supercenter for jobs with a quantitative tint to their perspective but one should look to it with a vision that includes those jobs which enhance life, community and society. In the example of Wal-Mart- type supercenters, we have seen and heard time and time again that they laugh in the face of living wages, they laugh in the faces of decent medical insurance, they laugh in the face of sick leave benefits, and they laugh in the face of those workers who have sought to bring these basic benefits to enhance the lives of their workers into one of their stores. One might argue, Mr. ILWU rep (that's me) we have the Hawaii Prepaid Health Care Act here in Hawaii. Health care is compulsory. A corporation like Wal-Mart has found ways around this vital act. The Act requires an employee work at least 20 hours each week for four weeks in the prior month to be eligible for health insurance the following month. Some of these corporations believe that it is ethical to schedule workers as many hours as possible for three weeks and reduce the hours to _ below 20 hours in the fourth week so as not to pay the medical premium based upon the Hawaii Prepaid Health Caze Act. This results in underinsured working people who have to tax the already over burden publicly funded medical systems here in Hawaii. How can stores like Foodland, Sack `n Save, and Safeway compete in the mazket that permits this type of abuse? Stores like Foodland, Sack `n Save, and Safeway have crucial benefits such as descent wages, family medical, sick leave, vacations and reasonable methods for employees to air their grievances. These aze some of the most fundamental, crucial, building blocks to supporting the families which build our communities here on the Big Island. I would like to finish by again beseeching you respective volunteers who have given of yourself to sit on this Commission to enhance the lives of the citizens in each of your respective districts. I plead with you to support the enhancement and progression of our Hawaii island by supporting the County Council's amendment to enhance the lives of our communities and denounce the regression that the amendment to create a superstore zoning district would initiate. Mahalo. WATANABE: Thank you. Do we have any questions from the Commissioners? Okay, thank you. Bryan, this time I'm right, okay, Mr. Halsey? 16 HALSEY: Halsey, yes. Good afternoon, Chairman and Commissioners. My name is Bryan Halsey. I'm the market manager. I oversee all the operations for our 8 stores in Wal-Mart here in Hawaii. As Xou know, I've provided testimony against Resolution 21-07 at your Kona meeting on May 24` . I'm here again today to testify against the alternative amendments as drafted by the County's Planning Director. It's simply another way to limit competition on the Big Island and another way to accomplish the end result of Resolution 21-07, this time by creating a separate zoning district with the same square footage in SKU limitations. And I note that there are a lot of definitions for stockkeeping units, SKUs and everything else. That would definitely need to be clarified. Wal-Mart stands ready and willing and able to sit down with community leaders, County leaders to discuss community problems, concerns and find fair solutions that do not restrict free competition and unnecessary burden on the island families. Our goal at Wal-Mart is to be able to serve our communities with the best service and the best quality and selection at our every day low price. After all, that's what the residents of Hawaii deserve. And unlike the gentleman sitting next to me, he was speaking about my company, and he doesn't work for my company. Over 70 percent of the associates here in Hawaii, which we're the fifth largest employer, are fulltime and they're eligible for Kaiser or HMSA We have way more benefits than he listed. We are a good company. Our average pay rate for the State is $12.19 an hour, start rate at the store is $10.00 with experience and you can go way up. We have a lot of good jobs and we do a lot of good for the communities. And I'll be glad to answer any questions that you might have on that. As faz as trip generation, there are a lot different definitions with that. We already have a lot of trips that go, obviously, into Hilo where most of the jobs aze in Hilo. There are approximately 8,000 trips we have a day now at Wal-Mart; and a lot of those are stopping after or before work, during, and it would not increase or double that necessazily. It's just going to make it easier for them as faz as logistically. If you limit it to one area of the island and you're not allowed to build development in other areas of the island, where is it going to be? It's going to be in Hilo. And we're already here in Hilo and we want to do the right thing. And with that I'd like to thank you for you're the opportunity to testify today. Thank you. WATANABE: Thank you. Any other questions for this testifier? Yes. YUEN: I have a question about full time. Do you define full time as 40 hours a week or some other level? HALSEY: We have full time as over 36 hours. Anybody that works over 20 hours a week obviously has opportunity to have HMSA or Kaiser. WATANABE: Thank you. Terrance. CROWLEY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, sorry, good afternoon. My name is Terrance Crowley, I go by Terry. I live at 227 East Palai Street. I'm the store manager for the Hilo Wal-Mart. I testified before, but thank you for the opportunity to testify again against Resolution 21-07 and its alternative. As you may recall, I helped open the Hilo Store. I was an assistant manager there in the mid-1990's. I've actually been Hawaii since the early 70's. My wife is a native Hawaiian. She was born and raised in Keaukaha. And we currently live on DHHL land in Panaewa. I'll be brief and to the point. 17 Wal-Mart is against this resolution. It is anti-competitive and would hurt our island consumers. It will also hurt local suppliers and vendors. You might not know but we're already working with 50 local suppliers and vendors on the Big Island and 487 state-wide. By adding a full line of grocery store, we would need to expand our local supplier base with additional farmers and local businesses. This bill would keep us from doing just that and we urge you to vote against it. And if I could add something else, is that, you know, a lot of times you look at Wal-Mazt and everybody sees us as kind of like this big giant that's on the mainland. But when you think of Wal-Mart with all our workers, we are all basically it's your mother, your farther, your brother, your sister, your aunty and your uncle from here in Hilo that work at Wal-Mart. So we aze part of the community, too, and we'll do whatever we have to do to make it right. Thank you. WATANABE: Thank you. Do we have any questions for this testifier? Okay thank you. You may be seated. You know, we have about I think 11 more testifiers. If it's all right, can we take a 5-minute break, Commissioners? WOODWARD: No. WATANABE: Please? WOODWARD: Okay. RECESSED The Chair called a short recess at 3:10 p.m. RECONVENED The meeting reconvened at 3:20 p.m. WATANABE: Okay, the Planning Commission meeting will come back to order. At this time we'll take this opportunity to call up the next four testifiers. , I have a Richard Ha, Elmer GOROSPE: Gorospe. WATANABE: Gorospe. Is that correct? GOROSPE: Yes. WATANABE: Francis Benevides and Cory Harden. I'm missing one of you. PUBLIC: He stepped out, Francis stepped out. WATANABE: Francis stepped out, okay. Let me circle that. Let's see, Janet Codispoti. PUBLIC Codispoti, she had to leave. WATANABE: She had to leave. She wrote down she submitted testimony. Okay, so that one is done. Anna Ater, okay, thank you. Would you all raise your right hand, please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. 18 WATANABE: Okay, beginning on my far right, would you state your name and address for the record uid then you can proceed with your testimony. GOROSPE: Elmer Gorospe, 2111 Kaumana Drive, Hilo, Hawaii. I live and work in Hilo, have a wife and three children. I know how expensive it is to support growing children and would love to pay less for our food, clothing and other necessities of life. But I would never shop at a superstore. Why you ask? Because a superstore, like Wal-Mart, has been built in many parts of the country, drives out its competition, usually small "mom and pop" stores, and gradually becomes a monopoly. Superstores have made its millions (and billons) by doing that, as well as buying its goods from countries where workers and environmental rights mean next to nothing. I believe in supporting Hawaii-grown stores, like KTA and Foodland, that have been good to Hawaii residents. These stores have been supporting our economy through the good times and bad. We need to support them. But if we allow superstores to come to town, do you think these stores can compete? What about even the smaller stores like Sack `n Save, Safeway, Ace Hardware, etc.? Superstores will eat them alive. I don't think we need a superstore on the Big Island. We're a small community and we should stay that way. And that's why I urge the Planning Commission to reject the Planning Director's proposal to create a superstore zoning district and support the County Council's proposal to ban superstores in any zoning district. Thank you for considering my views and concerns. WATANABE: Thank you. Do any of the Commissioners have any questions for Elmer? None? Thank you. State your name and address, please. HA: I'm Richazd Ha, 421 Lama Street. I'm a farmer. We farm 600 acres in Pepeeko, Hamakua Springs. We have about 90 employees. And what I want to talk about is I'm against the zoning for superstores for the reason that I think it's going to be damaging to small farmers. The larger farmers can qualify and supply the lazge stores. But for, I think it's more important to think about food security. About 70 percent of the food that we eat is imported and we have about 10 days of food in the pipeline. If we get something like bird flu, today the foods would be all gone. But, and it's real important to take care of the small farmers. And stores like KTA and Foodland, they go out of their way to ride the good and the bad with the small farmers. I'm considered a large farmer, and I'm competing with some of the small farmers. But I've noticed over the years that they make a special effort to take care of the small farmers. And it's really important because you don't want to really rely on just a handful of big farmers. And I don't think it's wise to rely on one big superstore. You know, I majored in business, I'm an accounting major. I'm supposed to, you know, I know about competition and fair trade and all that kind of stuff. It's good to talk about that. Unless you live in the middle of the Pacific, you really don't want to not grow your own food. That's all I have to say. WATANABE: Thank you. Commissioner Siracusa? 19 SIRACUSA: I'm a much smaller fu~mer than you. I only have 200 tangerine trees. And years ago when I was younger and could really work that orchard I noticed that some of the larger stores would not even look at buying my produce no matter how good it was because I could not supply them in the numbers that they wanted. And that was like Safeway, you know. And so I understand how the small farmers are really at a disadvantage in terms The larger the grocery store the harder it is to sell your produce to them. And so I definitely appreciate you bringing this particular slant on the subject, because we haven't had that perspective from our previous testifiers. Thank you. WATANABE: Any other questions for this testifier? Thank you. HARDEN: Cory Harden, 18-4033 Kanahele Place in Mt. View. I urge you to vote for the amendment to ban superstore and against the amendment for a superstore zoning district. I urge you to follow Chris Yuen's recommendation to have a hearing on the second one in Kona and to vote there so that Kona folks can be heard. You also are worried about sending a bill on the first issue of the Council that might not be adequate, possibly you could send it with recommendations. I'm sure you all know how to reach your County Council Members also. So I think there are ways to deal with that. You folks are also worried about traffic. I know that intersection up after Wal-Mart and that whole center got built, I didn't used to mind going through it but now I just, I cringe to go through there. I feel like I'm back when I was on the mainland for 25 years. I thought I came home to get away from this and it has followed me. So, and as far as statistics, according to Rachael's Democracy and Health News, larger stores increase traffic. In recent years number of miles Americans drive to shop has almost doubled. Each shopping trip is two miles longer. And shopping trips, the number grew three times as fast as other trips. And big box stores they take up a lot of land. There's one scenario where if you want 200,000 square feet of retail space, if you have a single story superstore and a standard 1,000 parking spaces, that takes 20 acres. But if you have two-story downtown buildings and shared parking, it's more like 4 acres. There's a study saying that we are an extremely over-retailed country in the world, we don't need more _ shopping. The amount of store space per capita has doubled recently in the United States but consumer spending hasn't grown much. So you end up with vacant malls, like the mall we are in right now. Some people have said that amendments are not about Wal-Mart; but you see that the top people in Wal-Mart have taken the time to come. I've read a book called the Wal-Mart Effect; and there were few studies, it shows that the rate of poverty falls more slowly in counties that have a Wal- mart. It comes out to about 7 more families in poverty per county with Wal-Mart. New Wal-Mart store causes four small businesses to close within 5 years. Five years after a Wal-Mart opens some new jobs are gained but some are lost; and the net gain after 5 years is 30 jobs. Two years after Wal-Mart opens three retailers in the County closed. And when Wal-Mart converts a store to a supercenter with groceries, two existing grocery stores closed. If there's a small town near a big town with a Wal-Mart, almost half the total retail sales are lost, almost half of the men's and boys' clothing stores went out of business. In the Wal-Mart town, sales dropped, 5 percent for grocery stores, 14 percent for specialty stores, 18 percent for clothing stores. And service business Cends to drop. It's serious that people, it's so cheap to buy 20 things at Wal-Mart that people just throw the old thing away and then you have the overflowing landfill problem. And also there is a local survey, it was a survey of social indicators which shows that Hawaii County has the lowest personal income and the highest percentage of people on food stamps in the State already. We don't need more bankrupt businesses. We don't need Wal-Mart pushing people into poverty. So I hope you will vote against superstores. WATANABE: Thank you. We have any questions for this testifier? DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman? WATANABE: Mc Domingo. DOMINGO: Ma'am, what's the title of that book? HARDEN: "The Wal-Mart Effect," and it's in the Hilo Library. DOMINGO: And the statistics that you were reading were taken from that book? HARDEN: Most of it, yeah. DOMINGO: I see. HARDEN: Yeah, most of them were. It's a very thoughtfully written book. It explains everything. It goes into the study; and I was impressed with how carefully and thoroughly it was done. DOMINGO: It seems like the effect of a store such as Wal-Mart or other stores just as huge as Wal-Mart has garnered the attention of other places throughout the country and it's inherent problems that we've often heard of. And it seems because of that, they've written that book; and I think it's a red flag for us to look at. If we, like in our case, since we're contemplating adopting the ordinances, I'm glad that you brought that up and it certainly will help me make my decision. I appreciate that. ATER: Anna Ater, 324 Lyman Ave in Hilo. My family and I live in Hilo. I am the unit chairperson for Sack `n Save here in Hilo. I am here today because the ILWU Local 142 is strongly opposed to the expansion proposal by supercenters such as Wal-Mart to develop supercenters here on the Big Island. Hilo has always been a small community that prides itself on its neighborliness. We know and support our neighbors. Among our neighbors are Hawaiian grown stores like Sack `n Save, Foodland and Longs Drugs that have been good to our residents, both for the goods they sell at a fair price and the jobs they provide to local people. When Wal-Mart first came to Hilo there were many who had apprehensions about a big box store coming to our small community. We heard about low prices but we also heard about how Wal-Mart had become the richest corporation in the country by driving out its economic 21 competition, small mom-and-pop stores who could barely eek out a living but contributed to the economy nonetheless. In the years that Wal-Mart has been on the Big Island, some small stores have gone out of business. While Wal-Mart has also provided jobs and low prices for Big Island residents, the jury is still out on whether the net effect has been good for Hawaii or not. But now the Planning Director proposes to develop a supercenter zoning district that will surely kill off most of the competition. While we cannot fault Hilo residents for patronizing supercenters because of the low prices we also do not want to have the economic community taken over by a huge national corporation that may be more concerned about its profits than the impact it will have on the community it is in. We don't need supercenters in Hilo or on the Big Island. The ILWU strongly opposes a supercenter zone and urges that the Hawaii County Planning Commission reject that proposal. Thank you. WATANABE: Thank you. Do we have any questions for this testifier? DOMINGO: Just one comment. You said you represent the ILWU? ADER: Right, at my store. DOMINGO: At your store? ADER: Yes. DOMINGO: I see. Would you be aware of approximately how many members there are in the division? ADER: Both two stores it's 70, about seven zero. DOMINGO: I'm glad that you've taken the initiative to come up and speak ADER: Sorry, I was a nervous wreck. DOMINGO: We appreciate that. Just cool off, calm down. You know, normally when you think of unions, labor unions like that, the concentration is on wages, medical, other benefits; and that's where it stops. As far back as I can recall, the ILWU has played a major part in the growth of our state and effectuating certain social revolutions in the past, which has brought about many changes that all the people in the state benefits. And I appreciate you coming and appreciate the union coming up and making such, taking such a position and a stance. Thank you very much. ADER: Thank you. 22 WATANABE: Okay, lei's go for the next four. I have Craig Nishida, Kale Gumapac, Paul Campbell and Thomas Hilliard. Would you please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. WATANABE: Thank you. Why don't we start with you. NISHIDA: I thank you for letting me speak. My name is Craig Nishida. I live at 91- 2048 Luahoana Street in Ewa Beach. I have testified before the Commission at the Kona meeting. Like I testified at that meeting, my mother is from Kona. And when I was a young boy I always looked forward to summers in Kona because it was so different from Honolulu. It was country and it was a time to run wild and it was great. And why I fly to this island I still enjoy the different pace. It's so laid back, especially here in Hilo, you know. Everything is laid back, including the sidewalks at night. But, you know, it's different. And I want to see the neighbor islands stay that way. You know, I live in Honolulu, and I have all my life, and I love it there. But I always curse the hour and a half drive to go 20 miles to work, you know. And I don't want to see you folks going through stuff like that. I know you talk about traffic here but why don't you try to live in Honolulu some time. Okay, the other thing was I wanted to talk a little bit about what the Wal-Mart representative said about the use of local suppliers. Now I know this is not about Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart is the face of superstores and big box. They are the leader and they're the one that always comes up in any discussion. Wal-Mart has been able to dictate their cost to their suppliers, which is opposite of what had been done before. They're monopolizing the market. And, yeah, they're based in Bettenville, Arkansas but I'll let you folks know their international headquarters is in China, which is their biggest supplier. They're going to take over China. And, you know, I hate to see the local farmers here be dictated how much they can sell their produce to Wal-Mart. And then what are they going to do? Make profit? Either they're going to have to raise the prices to everybody else which will cause all the other businesses to go out of business, or they're going to _ sell to everybody at that cheap price. And guess what? There aren't going to be fazmers any more. That's all I have to say. Thank you. WATANABE: Thank you. Do we have any questions for this speaker? Okay, thank you. Kale. GUMAPAC: Aloha, my name is Kale Gumapac. I represent the Kanaka Council and I am also a former business owner of Northwestem Christmas Trees. And Northwestern Christmas Trees, we were fortunate to have been in business here in Hilo for about 17 years until Wal-Mart came. I am one of the statistics and one of the fall-out of Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart came in, they brought in lots and lots of Christmas trees of which we know, that I know in talking with all of our suppliers from the Pacific Northwest, what the purchasing prices and the predatory practices at Wal-Mart did on these farmers in the Pacific Northwestern Christmas Trees. They bought the Christmas trees at dirt-cheap prices. They brought the Christmas trees here in Hilo, and at that time I was one of the largest Christmas tree importers and retailers in the State. We were bringing in about 40 containers state-wide. But when Wal-Mart showed up, they came in with all of the cheap pricing that they were able to buy from the Christmas trees growers in the Pacific Northwest. They dropped their prices dramatically so that they used that as a lost leader 23 here in Hilo, flooded the market And if you have bought Christmas trees, once you buy a Christmas tree, you're not going to buy another Christrnas tree. And so as a result of that, two straight years we suffered huge losses; and after the second year said that's it. When we lose $50,000 plus a year it's pretty hard as a small business person to sustain those kinds of loses. You need to sustain the amendment to ban the superstores. The changes proposed by Planning Director Chris Yuen to set aside a special zoning district is just as threatening to our society and the lifestyle here in Hawaii as it is anywhere. We have to keep Hawaii Hawaii. We don't want to be another Oahu. We already see all the mistakes that Oahu is making. Your responsibility as Planning Commissioners is to make sure that we can maintain this lifestyle. When the superstores start coming in and you allow this to happen the lifestyles of the people of this island will totally change, will totally change. Because now all of the planning that the Puna Planning Development Committee has put together into trying to make regional areas so that we have regional shopping centers so that the people from Puna can go there will now be forced to come to the superstore. The superstore is a convenience but it's not a convenience for the people. It's a convenience for Wal-Mart. Because that way they can centralize all of their forces and resources and force people to drive in long distances from Puna, from Kau, from Volcano, from Honokaa, as well as in the Hilo area to come. This is totally contrary to the ahupuaa concept, totally contrary to that. And this, we cannot allow this to happen because this will impact our lifestyle. I would also like to remind the Planning Commission on Article 12, Section 7 of the State Constitution that reaffirms the cultural, the traditional and customary impacts of the Kanaka Maoli. This superstore will invariably have a huge negative impact on our farmers, on our lawai`a (fishermen), as well as the people that work around the area. Look at the gas prices, look at what's going to happen if people have got to drive far. Think of the ahupuaa concept so that we can try. The best thing that you can do is to sustain this bill and to get Wal-Mart to build little stores in these different areas. Now if they did that, we can kako`o that, we would support that, okay, if they made it a regional thing. So that if they wanted to be good neighbors this is the way for them to be good neighbors. Because now all the other stores, everybody else can also compete with them. To me, that's the right solution. Mahalo. WATANABE: Thank you. Do we have any questions for this testifier? Yes, Mr. Domingo. DOMINGO: Thank you, Mc Chairman. Kale, I disagree with you on your last statement. What they can do is build a huge warehouse and from that area, every time or when required they can just take it from the warehouse and go to those small little stores and stock it, and you'll face the same problem. GUMAPAC: You're right, right. I forgot about that warehouse. I take that statement back. DOMINGO: Okay, you take that back and I GUMAPAC: I not one Planning Commissioner so I can take that statement back. DOMINGO: You take that back and I agree with your statement. 24 GUMAPAC: Okay, I take it back. DOMINGO: You know, another statement that you made to which I agree is that they force us to travel far distances to go to their store. I think good sound planning dictates now, especially in this very time, in this day and age, where you try to minimize traveling, the use of vehicles to do your business or to go to work and everything. You know, you try to minimize that because of the cost of the fuel and everything else. And that's one of my concerns. Because what it does, it causes us Co have to travel far distances to go do our shopping. And like I said, a good planning practice is to have your village or your town in one area with your markets, your school, etc. within that development where you don't have to travel far to go to school or go to shopping or just to enjoy yourself with the social programs. So I agree with what you said. GUMAPAC: You know, Taka, that's the ideal situation, especially for this island, especially how big the island is. And, again, we need to build communities; and it's necessary not only to build the communities but also to offer a place for the kids to be able to go to, rather than having the kids all being forced to go to this one big huge location, and you never know what's going to happen. And we also have to reinforce the ohana values; and the ohana values is very difficult when you're having to deal with these big superstores. And it becomes so impersonal, very impersonal; and you don't even know who you're dealing with. Whereas if you stay with the ahupuaa concept you know your friends, you know your family, and the people that you're doing business with, you know them. And this is so important when we can see, when we can smell, when we can hear and when we can touch our people. WATANABE: Okay, thank you. CAMPBELL: I am Paul Campbell. I live at 13-1342 Malama in Leilani Estates. I am Chair of the Sierra Club and represent approximately 975 members on this island. Superstores on an island are just bad urban planning, period. We've already established that they've been shown to produce much more traffic than any other type of retail use. Can we handle any more traffic here or in Kona, especially in Kona? And I won't say the "W" word once, I promise. If superstores drive out other businesses as they've been known to do, then everyone has to drive all the way to the superstore to do their shopping, as has been pointed out. They have to drive further, clog up one area. That's poor planning. The whole thing flies in the face of the community development process that we've been in and the establishment of the General Plan. Local businesses, it destroys our sense of place. It destroys our sense of culture, of continuity. People come to the Big Island both to visit and live here because of the rural atmosphere. If the local businesses can't survive, Hawaii Island will lose a great deal of what makes it special. Kauai is on the verge, as Mr. Yuen said, of passing a big box store ban bill, and this is to keep stores or businesses from becoming too centralized; and that's what we're trying to get away from. We're trying to get the community hubs. Since they put the Malama Market and the whole little shopping center near Pahoa, hey, it's wonderful. I come to Hilo maybe twice a month now. Local businesses are owned by local families. Money spent in local stores stays in the economy here. It pays their rent, it pays their mortgage, it pays their food. When only one or two large superstores thrive the money spent here leaves Hawaii, period. I spent most of yesterday calling local farmers from the list I got from HOFA. 1 called several dozen farmers, I talked to them. Thank you Mr. Ha for coming, I really appreciate it. And you 25 should probably receive a lot of testimony from small farmers too, and other small business people. Local businesses contribute a far greater percentage of their profits to local causes. They have a direct connection with the local people. They know the problems and they know what needs to be done. While some of the larger corporations contribute more in dollars they do not give anywhere near the same percentage nor with the same aloha spirit. Where will the workforce come from initially for these supercenters? There aren't enough people already to work here. We already have jobs going crying. Superstores are different from other large retails. Twice the size of existing Wal-Mart, I would say a 260,000 square foot supercenter, full- on supercenter, is the size of the super dome. And I'm not just talking about the football field, I'm talking the whole super dome. Many people on the island that I've talked to don't really have a frame of reference of what these supercenters look like. You go to Las Vegas, Nevada, you see these supercenters with not just parking lots but RV Centers that you can camp and shop at super box stores any day 24/7, you know, you just camp out there. Superstores draw traffic from a much larger radius, as has been pointed out; and so again the concept of centralization is thrown in our face when we're trying to get away from that. In conclusion I would say that Moku Loa Group, Sierrra Club Hawaii, stands in favor of banning big box stores on this island. It is not conducive to our island lifestyle. And we also oppose any legislation that would create special zoning for these stores because that would essentially establish the same situation that we're trying to avoid. Mahalo and aloha. WATANABE: Are there any questions for the testifier? DOMINGO: I'd just like to thank you for the fine planning principles that you've mentioned, we appreciate that. CAMPBELL: Thank you. HILLIARD: My name is Thomas Hilliard. My address is RR2, Box 6258, Pahoa. And I'm coming here just as a citizen and a family man, along-term resident. I've lived here for 34 _ years. I lived in Hilo a very long time ago, 30 years ago. I've seen Hilo go from what it was then, which was very quiet. I think there might have been one stop light. In any case, I've been reading letters in the paper and I noticed some of the letters are saying people want the big box because they're crying about high prices. So I started thinking about that and I realized that the stores that supply us locally, while they may sometimes have prices which are a bit higher, they're not actually really high. People don't understand that. But all of that money that they bring in is then distributed all the way down through our local community because they have their debts to pay, they have all their employees to pay. So, really, I think that the people who want the savings are being very selfish because they're not realizing that actually it's their neighbors they're paying that what they complain about the greater price to. The local business is the heart of Hawaii, really. It's true. And one business I want to mention is KTA. KTA is the most exceptional store I have ever shopped in, the Hilo Store particularly. The people there are absolutely friendly and incredibly helpful. They remodeled the store, as many of you know a couple of years back, and they did a beautiful job. It's clean, it's tidy. They have many, many things for sale. It's nothing like a big box store, but they still have tried to service the community. And I think they're doing an incredible job. And I think that they will grow if we allow them. I understood that they planned 26 to create a store at Shipman Industrial, I had heard that. Maybe I would be wrong. But should, for instance, a big box store be created, I don't think they might, they might not be able to do that. That might shoot them down. That would be, in my opinion, very sad. And I feel very strongly with Mr. Gumapac. I like the things that he says very much. I would say that a lobof what he says really he speaks for where I feel as well. And, also, the tomato fanner, I'm forgetting his name now. WATANABE: Mr. Ha. HILLIARD: Yes. His point is well taken, especially when we consider that if what he says about farmers is true, what about all the other avenues of business? What about the other things that are related in the retail areas as well? So I think that as an island we really are in a position where it's utterly crucial. If the supply were cut from the mainland and we were dealing with the large suppliers, they won't provide us with anything cause they'll be cut off. Whereas, local business people would be able to at least provide us with more. And, more importantly, the dollars would stay here in our community. I really believe this, that the money we spend locally is distributed locally. People buy cars here, their loans are with local banks, etc., etc. And so to sum it up, I'm in favor of Higa's resolution to, or his, effort to ban the big box stores; and I am actually really against any proposition that would allow them, including the zoning effort that Mr. Yuen has suggested. WATANABE: Thank you. HILLIARD: Thank you very much. WATANABE: Do we have any questions for this testifier? No. Well, thank you. Okay. HILLIARD: Bye guys. WATANABE: I have two names. I don't think these people are here. But just for the record, Doug Arnott? I don't believe he's here any more. And Francis Benevides, is he here? PUBLIC: He left. WATANABE: No. Okay, then, we've had quite a bit of testimony. Once again I'd like to entertain a motion to close the public hearing, please, before we go forward. DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the public hearing. SIRACUSA: Second. WATANABE: All those in favor, aye? COMMISSIONERS: Aye. WATANABE: Any opposed? Okay, now I guess we should take this one by one since the Planning Director corrected me and indicated that we will be taking up his version of the 27 amendment to Chapter 25 at our next Kona meeting. So the Chair would entertain a motion on the County Council-initiated amendment to Chapter 25 which bans superstores. SIRACUSA: I'll make that motion. I move that we send a favorable recommendation to the County Council on their resolution to ban superstores. WATANABE: There's a second? DOMINGO: Second. WATANABE: Okay, there's a second. Any discussion on this? Mr. Woodward. WOODWARD: Regardless of where you fall in the emotional spectrum, and this is an emotional issue, as I mentioned before, this is flawed legislation; and it doesn't have a prayer of working as it's drafted. Regardless of the question of autonomy for the Hawaiian Home Lands issue which is where the Wal-Mazt superstore is designed to go, again, as I said, you have to satisfy three criteria to be counted as a superstore, over 90,000 square feet, 25,000 storekeeping items, and 20,000 feet of grocery space. And the loopholes are incredible. So I can't support legislation, that even though, you know, emotionally maybe that's the right thing to do. Legally, this thing doesn't have a prayer. WATANABE: Any other comments from the Commissioners? Mr. Domingo. DOMINGO: I appreciate the fact that Commissioner Woodward had expressed his concern, and perhaps in a way I agree with him. But if we were to send up an approval on this with a notation and even with the transcript of this heazing for the Council, they can look at it and make the necessazy changes to make it comply or to make it enforceable, as we put it, so that there would be, in effect, a ban on all superstores. I don't see that it's a real problem. WATANABE: Thank you. Are there any other Commissioners who'd like to chime in? SIRACUSA: Yes. WATANABE: Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SII2ACUSA: Well, I made the motion so I'd like to explain what I was thinking in terms of making that motion. You know, several of the letters that we got that were in support of superstores said that these are people on low income and they're looking for the lower prices and that we couldn't possibly understand what it was like to live on a limited income. And I read that line, and I though, huh, you know, they're probably making more money than I am. I look for the bazgains because I have a limited income. And superstores are not necessarily cheaper than our local stores. I know for sure that I can buy dog food and cat food, the large sized bags, cheaper at KTA then I can at Wal-Mart. And I'm sure that there's a lot of other products that if you look at, you know, Wal-Mart is not cheaper. And yet even though Wal-Mart is a big box but not a superstore, they still have right now, that bulk buying power of a National chain. And that bulk buying power makes it absolutely impossible for there to be the so-called fair competition and the so-called touted free competition because it's neither fair nor free. It is not a level playing field. 28 There's another issue which is definitely a land use issue which no one but myself seems to have brought up in the past regarding superstores, and that is that superstores require super parking lots. And yet our Landscaping Rule 17 does not address in any way the special needs for landscaping, that would be necessary in order to mitigate the negative impacts of the needs for shade, the needs for greenery to absorb smell from car fumes and clean the air. Our Rule 17 doesn't address that. And so, therefore, we would end up creating concrete deserts, asphalt deserts, with absolutely no permeability. The rain would fall as it does in Hilo, and it would not sink down and go into the water table where it could recharge our aquifer. It would just go down into the storm drains where it would rush out to the ocean, and where all of that petroleum residues from all of those cars would go out into the water. And so I do not believe that superstores are environmentally beneficial or a good land use. Thank you. WATANABE: Thank you. Well, I'm going to chime in. This reminds a lot of when Costco was going to first open up in Kona. And being in finance most of my adult life I was concerned about the small business owners. But, you know, in reality, I see now a lot of the small business owners are buying their inventory from the Costco. I'm a member of Costco but I don't do a lot of shopping at Costco. I still shop at Safeway and some of the smaller stores because I don't like to stand in long lines and I don't necessarily want to buy in huge bulk. So to me it's a matter of choice. Where I have the biggest problem with the proposed legislation from the Council is that it's trying to limit choices. And I think you people, if you don't like the Wal-Mart superstores, don't participate, don't patronize them. They won't come or they won't last. And from the very start I had a real problem with the definition of a superstore and how easy it is to get around that definition. So I really can't vote in support of that bill. So are there any other-? Does anyone else want to make any other comments? Call for the question. Mr. Darrow? DARROW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion before us is to send a favorable recommendation to the Hawaii County Council. With that I'll take the roll. Commissioner Siracusa? SII2ACUSA: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Rho? RHO: Aye. 29 DARROW: Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD: Nay. DARROW And Mr. Chairman? WATANABE: Nay. DARROW: The motion does not pass, four to two. WATANABE: With that, I guess we're going to be discussing the Director's version at the next meeting. The discussion ended at 4:16 p.m. Respectfully submitted, - Sharon M., Nomura, East Hawaii Secretary 30 PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 20, 2007 The following is public testimony provided by JOEL GIMPEL regarding the PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 25 RELATING TO SUPERSTORES at 3:08 p.m. at the Waikoloa Beach Marriott, Naupaka III, 69-275 Waikoloa Drive, Waikoloa, Hawaii, with First-Vice Chairman C. Kimo Alameda presiding. PRESENT: C. Kimo Alameda ABSENT & EXCUSED: William Graham Takashi Domingo Alvin Rho Andrew Iwashita Rodney Watanabe Shelly Ogata Rene' Siracusa Rell Woodward Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Brooks Bancroft, Deputy Corporation Counsel Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 20 people from the public in attendance. INITIATOR: PLANNING DIRECTOR Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, to create a "superstore" zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a "superstore" would be allowed. GIMPEL: And it'll be brief. ALAMEDA: Okay. GIMPEL: Without taking a position on whether superstores ought to be banned or there should be a special zoning for it, my concern is that the ordinance before you and your other ordinance that would have treated them also as -,banning them completely, has a fatal flaw, which makes both of them inapplicable and ineffective. For example, both defined a superstore to mean a business that exceeds 90,000 gross square feet, that offers for sale more than 25,000 different stockkeeping units, and dedicates more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area to grocery sales. That's all well and good. But I can show you very simply with an example that it wouldn't apply to a 500,000-square foot store that has 30,000 different stockkeeping units and exactly 20,000 gross square feet of floor area devoted to grocery sales, because the definition requires that it exceed all three, and that only does two out of three. So it's completely ineffective and too easy to circumvent. Although, personally Ibelieve -and I'm not speaking on behalf of the Kona Traffic Safety Committee; we haven't taken a position on this, this is my own - although I personally believe that the zoning approach would be more appropriate because who is to say, 30 years from now, that no superstores should ever be on this 1 r 1 island I'm not going to say it, and I don't think you can. But the definition, because the devil is in the details, the definition is fatally flawed. So I suggest that this be turned back for redrafting. Perhaps, a definition ought to merely focus on a gross square foot measure, and including some degree of grocery sales, if that's the desire, without specifying a certain amount of feet devoted to the groceries. Thank you for the opportunity to comment, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. ALAMEDA: Any question for Mr. Gimpel? Seeing none WOODWARD: I'd ALAMEDA: You have a question? WOODWARD: I'd just like to make acomment ALAMEDA: Go ahead. GIMPEL: Sure. WOODWARD: That exact point that you brought up was brought up at the last meeting, and that's the only reason that I voted against the absolute ban was it was unenforceable. Because you have to have three criteria, and it's easy to skirt one of them. And as you said, the devil's in the details. And so I applaud you for your testimony, and thank you very much. GIMPEL: Great minds think together. Thank you very much. The discussion ended at 3:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Noriko Sauer West Hawaii Secretary 2 PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 20, 2007 A regularly advertised hearing on the PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED AMENDMENT TO CHAPTER 25 RELATING TO SUPERSTORES was called to order at 3:47 p.m. at the Waikoloa Beach Marriott, Naupaka III, 69-275 Waikoloa Drive, Waikoloa, Hawaii, with First-Vice Chairman C. Kimo Alameda presiding. PRESENT: C. Kimo Alameda ABSENT & EXCUSED: William Graham Takashi Domingo Alvin Rho Andrew Iwashita Rodney Watanabe Shelly Ogata Rene' Siracusa Rell Woodward Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Brooks Bancroft, Deputy Corporation Counsel Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 10 people from the public in attendance. INITIATOR: PLANNING DIRECTOR Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, to create a "superstore" zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a "superstore" would be allowed. ALAMEDA: We aze moving onto the final agenda item for today. It's a actually we don't have Mr. Yuen, so I Dr. Darrow? Will you be Okay. DARROW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. ALAMEDA: All right. Mr. Darrow. DARROW: The last item on the agenda, which may have caused some confusion being that we sent in an addendum to our July 20`n agenda out on a separate page. This was after we had submitted the first agenda. But basically this is the Planning Director's initiative amendment to Chapter 25 to create a Superstore Zoning District, which would be the only Zoning District where a superstore would be allowed. This is in response to the County Council action to ban superstores. At our last hearing, there was a vote on the County Council initiative, which did not pass; it was four votes to two. And therefore, an unfavorable recommendation will be sent to the County Council on that request. The Planning Director's initiated amendment was heard at the last Kona, but it was not agendized. This time it's been agendized, and therefore it's been published for East Hawaii and West Hawaii. And I guess that's basically it. We did take 1 quite a bit of testimony at our Hilo meeting, and it looks like we've got quite a bit of testimony for today. ALAMEDA: Thank you. So is that the presentation supposedly by the Director? Can we move on to DARROW: Our Director has left the building. ALAMEDA: All right. Well, we've heard this presentation already, and I think we can move forward to testimony, if there is no objection or if you have maybe questions for Mr. Darrow. Seeing none, I'd like to call up DARROW: I can ALAMEDA: Yes, go ahead. DARROW: Just real quickly. Just in response to it appears some of the reasons why the County Council bill did not pass, that was the concern that the definition could somehow be flawed. And the Director's initiative is in response to that, so that if there is a request for a superstore, a superstore would have to be placed in a Superstore District, and to do that you would have to go for a change of zone; and so that particular request would come before the Commission and the Council and be reviewed in great details. So that's as if it gives an opportunity for the public, for the Commission and the Council to be able to act on the particular request to allow a superstore in whatever area it would come in for the request, and then at that time they can look at the infrastructure and whatever other issues that may come in to play regarding the request. ALAMEDA: Ms. Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Based on the questions about the definition that both Commissioner Woodward and I have raised, and members of the public as well, did the Director possibly say anything to you about why he did not change the prepositions that separate the three conditions, namely, you know, instead of "and", you know, make that "or" DARROW: He did not SIRACUSA: Conjunctions, sorry, not prepositions. DARROW: Yeah. That might be something that can be further clarified by the Council, and maybe they could amend their request. SIRACUSA: Because that would address that entire concern. WOODWARD: Mr. Chairman. ALAMEDA: Mr. Woodward. 2 WOODWARD: Yeah, I know that Kauai has an Ordinance in effect now, and it's based purely on square footage. And I don't care what you calla 150,000-square foot store; it's a superstore. I mean if it's a retail outlet, it's a superstore. So I think if you really want to make effective legislation, you need to pick a number and not add the other conditions, which also have to be met, because as we've said, that legislation can easily skirted. DARROW: Yeah, this ALAMEDA: Mr. Darrow? DARROW: I'm sorry. I was just going to mention that this is something that would be on the record for the Council, and hopefully they will take this into consideration. And maybe that might be a proper way to go, especially if the Planning Director's initiative doesn't pass as well. ALAMEDA: Okay. Commissioner Siracusa? SII2ACUSA: Yes, I have one other question. Do you have any indication whether these two forms of the superstore bill will come up at the same time to the Council, or whether the one that failed here will go up first and to be followed later by whatever we decide on today? DARROW: We don't have any indication. There has been a request by the Director, but it's going to be up to the Council. ALAMEDA: Any other questions for Mr. Darrow? Seeing none, we do have testimony. Thank you, Jeff. I'd like to call up Greg Gauthier, Scarlet[ O'Hara Bill and Craig Nishida. Please come forward. Before I swear you in, I'd like to again thank you for coming. I know coming here is like taking off from work or finding babysitters, so I appreciate your time here. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. ALAMEDA: Thank you. I'll start from my far right. Craig, please state your name and address for the record. NISHIDA: Hi, my name is Craig Nishida. Address: 91-2048 Luahoana Street. I've been before you guys a couple of times already about that other amendment. The same type of argument with this. Superstore District would create a huge burden on that area's infrastructure. Putting all of the superstores in one area would encourage people to waste gas to take a round trip to that place, time and money, pollution as well. And another thing is that I know that issue of competition came up that, you know, a bill like the last one would interfere with competition. The large corporations that build superstores, what they do is they under-price until the competition is gone, and then they raise their prices. There is no competition. Small local businesses cannot compete. They cannot dictate to supply what they pay for their products like a big corporation can; they take what's offered. And the last thing that's a flaw in this bill is, just like prisons and landfills, nobody's going to want it in their area. So where are you going to put it? Middle of the volcano might work. Thank you. 3 ALAMEDA: Thank you. Any questions for Craig? All right. I appreciate your testimony. Thanks, again. Greg, would you like to state your name and address for the record? GAUTHIER: Greg Gauthier. I'm just moving this weekend to Wainaku, and I haven't memorized my address. But moving from Waimea, which I do know my address there: P. O. Box 6412, Kamuela, Hawaii 96743. ALAMEDA: Okay, okay. GAUTHIER: I don't Wainaku boy. ALAMEDA: So you don't know your address in Wainaku right now? GAUTHIER: Not yet ALAMEDA: Okay, you can't testify. No, just kidding. All right. Go ahead, go ahead. You can proceed with your testimony. GAUTHIER: Okay. I'm going to read off a letter I addressed to William Graham, but this is for you folks. And I apologize because the bottom half I've been educated since during this meeting in regard to the bottom half. But I'll read it anyways just -you can throw darts at me -just for fun. It's Friday. It is with great respect that I come before you as a citizen of this wonderful County of Hawaii as part of the great democratic process we value. Today, you along with your esteemed fellow volunteers who join you as Planning Commissioners have been asked to review the Amendment to Chapter 25 of the Zoning Code initiated by the Planning Director, which would create a Superstore Zoning District. I humbly request that this Commission not support this amendment. I would like to remind this Commission that on July 6, 2007, the amendment to not permit superstores of a particular size and product ratio in this County was in fact supported by a majority of those present, and this particular amendment seems to scoff at the decisions made on that day. As you recall, both this current amendment and the previously supported amendment to not permit superstores were scheduled to be heard, discussed and - at the time Ibelieved - voted upon on July 6, 2007. How disappointing it must have been for those West Hawaii residents who traveled so very far to Hilo on that day to find out that the this amendment would not be decided on July 6, 2007, and that the issue would be taken up at a later date at a different location. One might have been led to wonder if that is a fair strategy as it was neither originally advertised that way nor voted upon by the Commission. Those West Hawaii residents may not have had to feel forced to travel such a great distance to speak on this issue, if there was a clear choice as to the venue. But this dynamic also leads one to ask what -and maybe I can be clear - the parameters are for this Commission as it relates to the modification of venue as it relates to a previously publicized Commission meeting and vote. Can a Kona or Hilo resident reasonably expect that every previously publicized issue that is to be heard by this Commission might not actually take place on the day it has been advertised as such, or will the Commission take, does the Commission take every issue to both sides of the island before making a decision? 4 And then I have one more sentence before you folks hopefully respond to that. In summation I am opposed to the Superstore District amendment as I believe that it is inconsistent with the Planning Commission's previous majority vote not to permit superstores on July 6, 2007. ALAMEDA: All right. Any questions for Greg? Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Well, it's not exactly a question, but I think there has been some misperception on the part of the general public about coming out to Kona For people's mana`o. And 1 think we should clarify that, so we don't hear the same thing from everybody who comes up; and that is that the first time they had failed to agendize it properly, and there was a Kona meeting, and the other the County initiated resolution was on the agenda but not the Director's one that we're hearing today, and although it was not agendized we did heaz testimony on it. Okay? The second time we had it cancelled. And this happens sometimes because there wasn't a quorum. And we can't do business without a quorum. It's not like we can just sit here, and take testimony, and not make a decision; we can't even take the testimony. And so it wasn't like there was something deliberate or scheme of foot or something like that; it's just the way things happened that some people couldn't make it to Kona. And I was one of them; my car died, I couldn't get here. So that sort of thing happens. As soon as Sharon knows that there is not a quorum, she takes immediate action to cancel. But not everyone finds out in time about that, and we regret that. But that's just, you know, that's life, so ALAMEDA: All right. Any questions for Greg? Thank you, Greg, for your testimony. Appreciate your coming. Ms. Bill? BILL: I want to thank you for allowing me to have something to say again ALAMEDA: Okay, how about BILL: And the wazmth of Mr. Domingo making me feel comfortable. I'd like to say a prayer for Hawaii for all of us ALAMEDA: How about BILL: If you don't mind ALAMEDA: How about you give your name and address for the record first? BILL: My name is Scarlett O'Hara Bill. ALAMEDA: Is your prayer long? BILL: No. ALAMEDA: Okay. Did we get your address? Did we get it? I've got address, yeah? Oh, your address, your home address? BILL: My address? 73-4820 Anini Street, Kailua-Kona. I'm on the corner of Anini and Hina Lani where there have been so many deaths. 5 ALAMEDA: Thank you, Ms. Bill. You can go ahead and proceed. BILL: I would like to think about an unconscionable act of not seeing this island as very specifically different from any other island in the world, in the middle of the largest body of ocean that there is. This is an island that has specific and unusual flora and fauna, unlike any other area in the world. I've talked to those who are involved in ornaments and environmental atmospheric effects at the United Nation. This is a very special island where we saw goats just two days ago, my husband and I, at the little round here nearby, and they were all different, different ages; you can see there is an old man and an old woman and little babies, and they were trying to get across this circle right over near us. And it's a nice circle. And I would like to address circles and windmills for this island, as they have been proposed on Maui. So that we can perhaps have a place that would allow the development that you can see. And you're bombarded by all these people who want to develop. Yes, if we don't, if we don't grow, we fail. We fail our taxes, everything. We're people who live here, and we're trapped on a beautiful island that has incredible resources. And to utilize them wisely, I'd like you to take a look at the carpet. The carpet has windmills. It takes your eyes away from the intensity of the information, and then you realize what a wonderful design they made. That will take the toxins off our island, and they are parallel in the airport in Tenerife, Canary Islands. Canary is ruled by Spain, but they take it away. They take it, so that they can proceed with their huge development It has a same impact as here, but, but triple it's far, far beyond what we can cope with right at this moment. We aze coping with the growth of a superstore. Tenerife has decided to make circles, instead of using lights where we stop and choke for five, five miles almost to the airport, almost eight miles into Kona; we are choked on single-lane highways. They aze using circles. So I would propose that you look at it and the future. And I' m going to make this very short that to say there would be a circle at the airport, the Keahole Airport, which is now called Kona Airport. A circle that would include an exchange going into OTEC and an exchange going to Kona on the Queen Kaahumanu road, an exchange going to the Pines - I don't know the names of that street, someone told me but the Pines that going up mauka that's paralleling Hina Lani at the time - an exchange going so that they come up that circle into Kaiminani and to the agricultural area, so that that would be one circle that would be proposed to be done immediately before any other ideas of designs aze proposed for road design. I propose also windmills to take the toxins away from the airport, so we can grow. The next place that should have the same kind of design -and it would probably have been moved up to Makalapua -would take in Palani Road and Kaiwi and the road to Henry Street, and the road that's emptying in a new development down on Kuakini Highway that if they have a circle in there, maybe it would have to be moved over north of the Lanihau subdivision. $ut to make a circle there, because we have so many deaths. We have so many deaths at Hina Lani, at the Hina Lani/Queen turnoff from Costco. We have so many deaths. We've had so many on the Hina Lani connecting to Palani Road, at our corner and on up. And now we have a choking condition whereby the entire Kailua Village would die, if we, if we do further that we're We've lost 60% of our business, and it has been written, and I have written another letter to tell you about these circles. I'd be happy to submit my view-cam recording of what they are doing in Canary Islands, so we can move to future. We're futuristic. We're the best. We are the best island. And we have an opportunity to change our whole scope from a vision above, and make that so beautiful, so that we would have an animal sanctuary ALAMEDA: All right 6 BILL: We would have our areas for shopping, and we would have appropriate road length to take our children to school ALAMEDA: I got you BILL: Thank you very much. ALAMEDA: I got you. Thank you. Any questions for Ms. Bill. Seeing none, you may be seated. Okay, Fellow Commissioners. Where are we at? SII2ACUSA: Are there more testifiers? ALAMEDA: No more testimony? Commissioner Ogata? Commissioner Ogata, did you have something to shaze? OGATA: No. ALAMEDA: About circles? No? Okay. We are now at the point where we can, I guess, deliberate or make a motion. It's up to you, Fellow Commissioners. What's your pleasure? Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, you know, we've had concert rule discussion on this issue within the Commission and -although maybe some of us were not here - I'm ready to, I'm ready to consider this issue, and be listening to any kind of motions, or I myself would make a motion. ALAMEDA: Okay. Sure. WOODWARD: Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA: Mr. Woodward? WOODWARD: I believe we are up against a wall on this one as far as time, aren't we, Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE: Yes, that's my understanding that you have to make decision one way or the other with five votes today, or it goes up a default negative recommendation. ALAMEDA: Okay. Also can Ijust - I wasn't here at the last meeting, so I don't know - is it appropriate to ask what was the vote? Well, I was there in the past, but Was it a four- two or DOMINGO: You're speaking to Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA: Yes, Mr. Domingo. DOMINGO: You are speaking to the proposal to ban superstores, yeah. 7 ALAMEDA: That's the proposal on the table right now, yeah? DOMINGO: Yeah, it was afour-two decision on that. ALAMEDA: Awesome. DOMINGO: There'll be no majority nothing can happen ALAMEDA: Oh, yeah, yeah, okay. All right. I'm back on track now. Okay. All right, I'm ready to entertain a motion. SIRACUSA: A question. I have a question ALAMEDA: A question, Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Can we amend this resolution, amend the definition of superstores that's in this resolution to delete the conjunctions "and," and replace them with the conjunctions "or"? TORIGOE: Well, the Rule says that you are supposed to transmit the proposed changes in ordinance together with its recommendation. So you can't technically amend it, but you can send it up with, you know, a suggestion or a recommendation that you change the definition in certain way, if you want to. SIRACUSA: Would that have to be as part of the motion then TORIGOE: That's what I would recommend, if you want to do that. SIRACUSA: Whether the motion is for or against? Or would it have to be a separate motion sending a recommendation to the Council that they consider that change when they look at both resolutions, both the County generated one and the Director generated one? TORIGOE: I think depending on what your recommended change is, you know, it could be either way. I mean if you want to send up a recommendation that is positive, but with the recommendation that you change the definition of superstore to XYZ, you can do that. Or if you want to send a negative recommendation, you can say it's negative unless they change the definition as you would recommend. DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman? SIl2ACUSA: Except some of us might feel that it's negative anyway, with or without that, you know TORIGOE: Right, that ALAMEDA: Right. SIRACUSA: That grammatical change, so 8 ALAMEDA: Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, I move for the denial action on the Planning Director's recommendation for a special zoning district for superstores. ALAMEDA: Okay. IWASHITA: Second. SIRACUSA: I'll second. ALAMEDA: All right. So I understand it very clear, Commissioner Domingo, so that means that you're making a motion for a negative recommendation. DOMINGO: Yes, a negative recommendation. ALAMEDA: Okay. And it was seconded by Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: Thank you. ALAMEDA: Okay. Discussion? Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD: I think the biggest problem -well, there are several problems -but the biggest problem is again the question of definition. And I think the only way you're going to make this work is to have a definition based purely on square footage; that's what Kauai has done. You start adding these other conditions that they also have to meet, or violate, depending on how you look at it, to be qualified as a superstore, you're just asking people to get around a regulation. So I would just let the record show I would vote to send a negative recommendation, but I'd like the record to show that the problem I think with both of these regulations that has caused some of us to vote against them has been the problem of definition that's not enforceable. ALAMEDA: Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be voting to send a negative recommendation. And just for the record, you know, I was not able to attend the prior meeting where the four-two vote taking place, and I would have, in that case, voted I would have been No. 5, if I was there. I agree with the concerns that Commissioner, my friend, Rell here has raised as far as definitions. But I would have sent it up and said, this is a good idea, change the definition, make it work better. So that's it. ALAMEDA: Thank you, Commissioner Iwashita. Commissioner Ogata? Okay? I'm going to get you to speak in at least one of these Commission meeting. Just kidding. All right. Well, seeing no further discussion, I think we are ready for a vote here. Mr. Darrow? DARROW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion before us is to send an unfavorable recommendation to the Hawaii County Council on the Planning Director initiated amendment to Chapter 25 regarding superstores. With that I'll take the roll. Commissioner Domingo? 9 DOMINGO: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Yes. DARROW: Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD: Aye. DARROW: And Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA: Aye. DARROW: The motion passes, six to zero. ALAMEDA: Very good. All right. The discussion ended at 4:14 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Noriko Sauer West Hawaii Secretary IO