HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-04-15 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes
Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – April 15, 2019
Game Management Advisory Commission
County of Hawaii
Minutes
Meeting Date: April 15, 2019
Time: 6:31 p.m.
Place: Hawaii County Building – Council Chambers
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:31 pm.
Stanley Mendes, District 1 – here
Kean Umeda, District 2 – here
James O’Keefe - District 3 – excused
Naniloa Poglen, District 4 - here
Abraham Antonio, District 5 - here
Grayson Hashida - District 6 - here
Bronsten-Glenn “Kalei” Kossow, District 7 - here
Teresa Nakama, District 8 – here
George Donev, District 9 - here
Quorum established
ALSO PRESENT: Malia Hall, Corporation Counsel
Donna Urban-Higuchi, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim
GUESTS: Terri Napeahi, Pele Defense Fund
Guy Cellier, Hu Honua Bioenergy, Forrester
CALL TO ORDER:
BKK: Aloha, ahiahikakou – welcome to the Game Management Advisory
Commission meeting for Monday, April 15, 2019, it is 6:31p. At this time
please silence your electronic devices – Donna, please call the roll.
DUH: Chair, you have eight present, one absent or maybe excused because Jim
did say that he was teaching a class tonight.
BKK: OK. You can mark him down as excused. Thanks, Donna.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – April 15, 2019
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES – March 19, 2019 meeting.
BKK: I didn’t get that email. Thanks... All right, is there a motion to approve the
minutes?
BKK: Teresa Nakama moved for approval of the March 19, 2019 as submitted.
Seconded by Nani Pogline and carried unanimously by voice vote.
BK: The motion is on the table – from Teresa, seconded by Nani. Is there any
discussion?
BK: Donna on page 26 – there’s the part where the commission discusses about
the committee on feral ungulates and then right in the middle between BKK
and GD – there’s nothing in-between there – so was there a determination of
the vote?
BKK: That’s when we voted on the committee on wild game and it stops right there
– then it goes into our next topic for New Business.
DUH: I’ll have to investigate on that – right now I’m not very clear as to how to
answer that question. I will get back with you folks on that at the next
meeting...
BKK: So the motion’s still on the table and it’s been seconded but I request
that there be an amendment to it to clarify that page 26, um, all I need is
just a second for that and then we can go for a vote...
TN: I second his clarification motion.
BKK: OK. Motion – and seconded... All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Motion
carries.
FINANCIAL REPORT
BKK: Teresa Nakama moved for approval of the Financial report as submitted.
Seconded by George Donev and carried unanimously by voice vote.
STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS
- Statements from the public will be taken throughout the meeting
BKK: At this time I would like to invite anybody from the public who wish to talk –
give about 3 minutes to come up and talk. If anybody wishes to speak on any
of the agenda items they can talk right on this side, um, and just go ahead
and state your name.
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CH: Cory Harden for Sierra Club Hawaii Island Group – brought a letter which I
passed out to all of you talking about how lead was found in the discharge
water from Hu Honua and as you know on November 9 there was a
continuous spurt of dark water coming out of a pipe from Hu Honua going
over the cliff into the ocean and that may have happened on other days too –
went on for hours – workmen got concerned when – and turned it off – later
got in trouble with the supervisor for doing that – so, um, Department of
Health tested it – think they found iron in it – but we got a hold – someone
took a plastic bottle and caught some of the water and we got ahold of some
of that water and sent it to a lab in California and it had some – a couple of
marine scientists at UH read the report and interpreted it for us – and there
were lead levels in the samples ten times higher than acceptable fresh water
levels and two times higher than acceptable marine water levels according to
the Environmental Protection Agency and State Department of Health
standards. As you know, that is a toxic, heavy metal in fresh water and the
ocean – a lot of impacts on fish and vertebrates and seaweeds – not to
mention people – if anyone was fishing in that area around that time I’d be
really concerned. Also, iron levels were found over 10 times the levels
typically reported in the ocean and an ocean scientist said probably caused
the significant browning of the ocean water that witnesses reported and then
there’s less light going into the ocean and the seaweed can’t grow and of
course the fish eat the seaweed and a lot of marine animals depend on it. So
we wrote to Department of Health and the Department of Land and Natural
Resources and asked them to do independent testing of the discharge water
– which I believe is still being stored on the Hu Honua site – we can’t believe
that they didn’t have viable plan for what to do with that discharge water from
when they cleaned out the old boiler – so we’re calling for an independent
testing of that water – our testing was not totally reliable cause the sample
was pretty old and we didn’t have a good chain of custody but it does indicate
a need for further testing – we’re also asking for monitoring by the State of
marine and fresh water systems that could be affected by Hu Honua – we’d
appreciate if you guys would support our request to the Department of Health
and DLNR and we certainly don’t need lead and iron going into the ocean off
Peeked Point so, thank you.
BKK: All right, thank you. Is there anybody else that wants to testify at this time?
OK. And at this time, I apologize, this is not an agenda item – but I just want
to acknowledge some of Donna’s friends that’s in the room in Kona – Donna if
you – go ahead and just take a minute of two and introduce everybody that’s
there.
DUH: Thank you so much, Chair. I’ve invited friends who are here from Japan –
they have a TV show in Japan that demonstrates how to trap pigs and or wild
animals using their own traps. I’d like to call on Leo to do the introduction.
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LU: My name is Leo Uchi, I live in Kona. From Japan, we have Hunter Kunio
Katagari, TV Director Satoshi Soyama, Cameraman Takashi Enomia, and
friend Jeremy King from Kona.
BKK: Thank you for coming in. We do appreciate it. So good to see people from
outside of the United States – who share the same passion as we do.
LEO: So in Japan we have a lot of wild boars and the farmers and even the regular
people got some issues from the wild animals and we heard that Hawaii had
a lot of farming place and had an issue from the wild pigs and he want to
know what is the issue exact issue – how big is the issue and also he wants
to share his own snare – wild trap – to everybody. He can demonstrate that
trap. Thank you.
BKK: Thank you. To answer some of that – part of that question and I think
Abraham probably can talk a little bit more about it because he’s more the –
on the ground person – Abraham did you want to answer that one part of the
question?
AA: It’s a pretty big issue throughout the state. Our trap system – we – the traps
that we use is drop door traps and we also use some snares, um, people
make for themselves their snares with ropes and surgical rubber and the drop
door traps is just made out of two by four fabric \[unclear\] all together with trap
on the inside.
BKK: Thanks, I didn’t mean to put you on the spot there, but, thank you guys for
coming out and as far as the snare goes – it’s a little hard to see you on the
screen so I was wondering if you can give Donna some of the information and
then we can put it into our minutes for the next meeting.
NP: In Japan, are the wild pigs of value? Do people use them as a resource?
Leo: In Japan, many years ago we ate the meat but nowadays we don’t eat much
meat from the mountain \[speaking in Japanese\]
TN: The pigs that you folks snare of use a trap on – are they consumed by the
public or those that catch them – the hunters – are they used as a sustainable
meat product?
Leo: Yeah, hunters will eat the meat everything.
TN: Are there laws in Japan to totally eradicate the wild boards?
Leo: Yes.
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TN: And do the government come in and totally eradicate them and not feed the
public with them and they just kill them and let ‘em lay where they die?
Leo: \[speaking in Japanese\] yes, the Japan government is doing that now with the
hunters.
TN: They’re working with the hunters...they allow the hunters to take the meat that
they’ve killed or they just let ‘em die on the ground and let it rot.
Leo: Some people do that but, most people \[speaking in Japanese\]. Yeah, once a
year ago before that everything was burned or just put in the ground. If the
government works with the hunters they’re not gonna use the meat, they just
put in the ground or just burn it. So if the hunter – they don’t work for the
government – that kind of hunter eat everything.
TN: Thank you. Arigato.
GH: This is Grayson from District 6 – can I ask that you demonstrate the snare?
Leo: \[Speaking in Japanese\] He made this trap – his own trap and why he made
this trap is he’s a cook \[unclear\] because he want to show the respect
because he killed the animal so he want to eat everything and if you want to
eat everything it has to be a good taste, right, so, um, he, um, wire trap – and
catch by hand and then brings to the kitchen – carries to the kitchen and the
animal is come down – he poke the knife in the heart. That’s the best way to
get the good meat \[unclear\]. And now he got to start the demonstration for the
wire trap – wire snare. \[Speaking Japanese\] So this side gonna be on some
tree or some tree roots – like this...
TN: Leo, is that the wire – is that a wire leader?
Leo: It’s a wire – it’s 580 steel wire and he dig a hole and \[speaking in Japanese\]...
Wizk! Wizk! Wizk! So this one – the old trap had some things like this but this
not nothing – this is the part.
TN: Leo, it looks like a humane way to catch a pig as it’s not making the pig suffer.
Leo: Yes, it is. That’s why you want this one.
TN: What is he selling it for?
Leo: One set – the wood and this – the wire – is $150 each.
BKK: Is it a one-time use?
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Leo: Not one time use but, sometimes the wire part – this one – cause the pigs
drag the wire – run around when he get caught – so sometimes the wire go
like this and pig have a tension – this part is gonna be sometimes real bad
you have to replace this part but the other – this part – is nothing to repair –
this one too. It’s not one-time use – you can use long time. Many times.
NP: Why does the Japanese government want to eradicate all the wild pig?
Leo: A lot of farmers, so, ah... \[Speaking in Japanese\] yeah, that’s the reason – the
pigs eat lots of vegetables – the farmer’s vegetables that’s why.
So one year, five hundred million dollars will be for the wild pig for the whole
of Japan, yeah.
TN: He’s talking about agriculture loss?
Leo: Yes.
BKK: Is there any other questions?
AA: Abraham, District 5. Sorry about the pause but, I just, personally I just don’t
think, you know, there’s a lot of loss with pigs and stuff like that – but it’s – I
don’t like saying that they’re a problem because they’re such a valuable
resource for our Island, especially, you know, there’s a lot of people that hunt
in the mountains and in the farms as long as the farms are accessible to the
hunters and they, um, that’s mainly how their – a lot of people that’s their
main food source and some they make smoked meat, they make sausages
amongst other things and they sell ‘em and that’s how they make their income
so personally, I don’t like to say that it’s a problem and that’s basically why I
had that long pause cause I had to figure it out of what really to say. So as far
as that – that’s why – it’s a problem toward the agriculture industry, yeah, we
see it all over, we see it on the mainland, we see it in Japan – see it all over
the world – but everyone seems to forget that’s still a valuable resource
especially for our Island – we get – at times there’s where the ships stop
coming and our shelves go bare if we, you guys all know, if they take away
our game and our resources what is there gonna be left? What is there gonna
be left for the rest of the communities out here if you guys – if the ships stop
coming – that’s what everybody says but nobody can give a valuable answer.
Just last month the shelves were going bare...
TN: This is why we have GMAC – to protect our natural resources. We use our
wild boars, our wild pigs as food for our tables and we want to protect our wild
resources and, um, as much as a problem that they are to private farmers or
private residents we try our best to capture them and use them as much as
we can to feed our families. Thank you.
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GH: This is Grayson from District 6. I had a question for our guest. Japan strikes
me as a country that’s small in land size compared to other hunting nations.
What is Japan doing to improve game management and improve hunting?
Leo: I don’t really understand. What is that again?
GH: What is Japan doing to improve hunting more animals, more hunters, more
places to hunt – is Japan doing anything? Cause that’s our purpose here. Our
purpose, this group, is to improve hunting.
Leo: OK.
GH: So my question is – what do you do in Japan to improve hunting?
Leo: They want to increase the hunters. So, because this is the Japan Hunter Club
and they had a hunter in old Japan but those hunter days kind of old – and
now he try – so different government want to increase the hunters and – well,
teach to the young hunters how to catch a pig by this trap.
GH: Thank you.
BKK: Do we have any questions for our guests? No? All right. Thank you guys so
much for coming over. Leo, if you can, just express our appreciation for them
being here today and we do – we really, really do appreciate that – their
information that they shared but other than that – Teresa – did you have
something?
TN: No, just do mo arigato.
BKK: With that being said I’d like to move on in our agenda item. 5a the history of
GMAC and Wao Kele o Puna is gonna be amended instead of Palikapu we’re
gonna have Terri Napeahi.
TN: I’d like to introduce Terri Napeahi that is part of Pele Defense Fund and has
been the funding force of GMAC and I admire what they’ve done at the very
beginning of putting GMAC together – working hard with former Council
Dominic Yagong and putting all their efforts into this to protect our hunting
and gathering rights so I’d like to introduce Terri Napeahi of Pele Defense
Fund. Mahalo.
PRESENTATION
History of GMAC and Wao Kele o Puna – Terri Napeahi
T: Aloha Mai – aloha – I would first like to thank all of our commissioners on our
Game Management Advisory Commission for allowing Pele Defense Fund to
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be here tonight – giving you some history of the beginning – the birth of your
commission and how it started and I think this is important – I apologize for
Palikapu not being here – he’s away on some other business but I’m here to,
well, to help with this historical information for you. First of all, I wanted to
explain who Pele Defense Fund is – Pele Defense Fund was organized in the
early – in the latter 70s by Mr. Palikapu Dedman who was known for
supporting native rights beginning at Kahoolawe – as they were initiating in
1978-1979 the bombing of Kahoolawe and himself and Emmett Aluli and a lot
of other Hawaiians that found bombing that particular island was not
something wanted to have continue – challenging the federal government
military in trying to stop this initiative. They managed to do that for years – ten
years later they were able to have the military stop in their 80s by promoting
and supporting the idea of traditional, customary practices and the detriment
of bombing an island that was filled with sites – cultural sites – iwi – artifacts –
and this is the initiative that started this group of people – Palikapu Dedman –
at the same time in 1978-1979 – Kau – where he is from – also they, you
know, there were also concerns in Kau and him being there and organizing
the initiative of Kahoolawe saw it important for Hawaiians in that area to also
stand up and challenge. There were several development that was being
done in Kau – one was the rocket launching – several times, in fact, they had
the proposals for rockets to be done in Kau; hotels that were going to be built
on Punaluu Beach and several different issues that also took them to the
geothermal development – that was happening down in Puna. And at that
time with their success and lawsuits promoting traditional, customary
practices and also fighting for their rights set precedent with Pele Defense
Fund in lawsuits that they managed to win. During the time of geothermal it
was an initiative where Pele Defense Fund stood up for their customary
practices with the belief of a deity being disturbed, desecrated and
disrespected and successful in this particular concern – Pele Defense Fund –
one of, in fact, the only organization that was able to in law – Pele Defense
Fund versus Campbell – set precedents in law on their traditional, customary
practices for Wao Kele o Puna. At the time when they first started the initiative
with Pele Defense Fund it started with the community of – of volcano
community – they were the first community that was concerned about the
development near Kahoolea (sp?) and near Volcano National Park – at the
time there was a lawsuit going on – there were court cases going on and they
fought – Pele Defense Fund – and with the community of Volcano while they
were in the courtrooms fighting this issue of desecration of a diety – Tutu Pele
– she decided to blow and at that time – while in the courtroom – Puu Oo vent
was formed and Kahoolei’a where the development was going to be done
actually – was actually the geothermal pad where they were going to be
drilling and that’s where Puu Oo was formed. So fortunately they were, you
know, this all ended with Tutu Pele at the time actually inundating lava in that
entire area and then Wao Kele o Puna started – this is Campbell after drilling
in Kahoolei’a moved – they did a land swap of moving this initiative with one
company – so they swapped a State low-land forest – the only lowland forest
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- for development and to develop geothermal and this swap to Pele Defense
Fund and many community members was illegal to do a land swap and they
fought and there were over 200 people that got arrested during their protests
– also we had kupuna, children, family members that were totally against the
development of geothermal because of 1) the desecration of the deity, 2)
environmental issues – which at that time geothermal was emitting their toxic
emissions into the air and with the fight of the community they were able to
bring the emissions and injecting into the ground but with all of this, um, Pele
Defense Fund set precedence and won this case on the merit of a traditional,
customary practice rights and right now in Wao Kele o Puna they only lowland
forest is the only place that you can go and hunt without DLNR coming to tell
you not to do that because it is a place where you can gather. You can hunt,
you can gather without being cited by any enforcement because of Pele
Defense Fund setting precedence. OK. Now that I’m going to do – explaining
the history of Pele Defense Fund and why we’re talking about GMAC – in
2011 – although there were years in 1990 of hunters’ concern of eradication –
Hamakua – we had several hunters at that time that were fighting the idea of
eradication – also the idea of fencing. This was an ongoing issue for our
hunters at that time. Because Pele Defense Fund was fighting the issue again
in 2011 with the proposal of another geothermal plant with a company called
IDG – community came to Pele Defense Fund’s meeting in the mall at my
gallery – we met in the back – that was pretty neat – where we had a central
place for everybody to meet but the hunters heard about the fact that
geothermal was being challenged at that time by Pele Defense Fund and the
people of Puna and in 2011 – we had Tony Sylvester – I think you know Tony
– Tony Sylvester was concerned about the eradicating – of the aerial shooting
of the sheep on the mountain – at the same time we had Joseph Griffiths,
Ivan Gomes and Danny Rocha who was fighting the issues on fencing in,
near their areas – Puu Makaala – we had fencing in Kau – all of these issues
were something that our hunters wanted to talk about so Joseph Griffiths
along with other hunters decided to have their meeting at Nani Mau Gardens
and came and saw Palikapu Dedman and I as they wanted to learn a little bit
more about how Pele Defense Fund does their challenging with Article 12,
Section 7 – I think – it’s a... I’m gonna read this – this is important – before I
start reading how we developed your commission. Article 12, Section 7, was
done in 1978 – where it states all the native rights of our Hawaii – the host
people – and the use of land. Article 12, Section 7, was at the very end and
this is the first thing that you’ll learn about customary practices. Article 12,
Section 7, says the State reaffirms and shall protect all rights customarily and
traditionally exercised for subsistence, cultural and religious purposes and
possessed by ahupuaa tenants who are descendents of native Hawaiians
who inhabited the Hawaiian Islands prior to 1778. There’s a latter part of it
that says subject to the right of the State of Hawaii state to regulate such
rights – which I believe is DLNR. These rights that our native Hawaiians have
has been very successful in the idea of managing the resources that our
Hawaiians managed to do hundreds of years prior to western contact, even
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after the over throw – our Hawaiians were able to feed over a million
Hawaiians. Now, how was that without having imported goods coming into
Hawaii? They knew the land – they were the land – and this is something that
our legislators and our lawyers and attorneys should understand when we say
we are the land – we were the host people that came to the Islands – we
created a system along with spiritual practices. Does that make any sense to
anyone? What does that mean? It means when you govern your land and its
resources it was protected with the belief of a spiritual practice. That is exactly
what I needed to talk to you about and why GMAC was created this way
because for generations our Hawaiians have had to deal with the depletion of
resources because they were not allowed to practice their culture by
maintaining their resources with the spiritual practice. They did it that way. I
think every culture does that. When the Japanese came into Hawaii as
plantation workers they had very little acculturation. Why? Because even
though they were not from Hawaii and they moved here to work – they
managed to keep their spiritual practices till today. Very little acculturation to
their practices and which was proven in the University of Hawaii to be the
reason why they have the best health in Hawaii. Our plantation ancestors that
came over to work and kept their spiritual practices – they were able to keep
their spiritual practices – brought it with them – even though they did not
come from here. Now, you’re gonna have to understand our Hawaiians – we
live here and we’re not able to practice who we are – because of our
circumstances so in 1978 when our Renaissance leaders – they don’t like to
be called Renaissance because a lot of them are still alive like Palikapu who
fought for these native rights – to be who we are in our own land – we cannot
be who we are in our own land because the laws do not permit us to do that.
When the hunters came to Pele Defense Fund in 2011 they knew that they
needed the help for this because fencing was being done all over this Big
Island – fencing that was being promoted by the several conservation special
interest groups – environmental groups and our – at that time our hunters
were having a very difficult time...
T: When the hunters came to Hawaii – I mean to Pele Defense Fund we had so
many hunters at that time – they actually did some protests in front of the
Department of Land and Natural Resources fighting the eradication and the
aerial shooting and the fencing – so what we did to help them was to teach
them a little bit about the rights of our traditional practices. Why we would call
not hunting but gathering – because it’s gathering your resources. We have
the rights to gather – it is protected – our Hawaiian people have the rights – it
is our right to gather – whether it’s fish or hunting – so at the same time we
had the fishermen who had also their issues in Kaupulehu they had several
closures meaning they were going to go from A to B in Kaupulehu and they
were not going to allow anyone to fish – closed for ten years. It was a ten-
year ban. So at the same time we had fishermen that were coming to our
meetings because they thought the same thing – just like the hunting – how
can you stop us from fishing when it is our right and are we the problem? That
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was a concern. Are the hunters and the fishermen the problem? Are our pipi,
our puaa the problem? When you have fencing you interrupt the migration of
our puaa and they come down to the residential area where we cannot shoot
or hunt so this is a huge concern for our hunters – they got together with one
political leader and his name was Dominic Yagong – I called Dominic with
Palikapu to come to meet us at Papa Mu Gallery with Pele Defense Fund to
write legislation for our hunters and our fishermen and it is Bill 260 and 261 –
the no aerial shooting bill and the verbiage for the Game Management
Advisory Council. So 260 – this is our concern – at the time that Dominic
wrote this he was running for Mayor against Billy Kenoi. It was very political –
and at the time it was a hype – we had council meetings, we pitched a tent
outside in parking lot to feed those so that people could not leave. We were
here at 7:30 in the morning. We had over 100 testifiers and at that time it was
Pele Defense Fund helping the geothermal protestors and the Puna
community and the hunters. We all helped each other at that time testify for
each issues – we managed to pass four legislative bills – those two years –
the most important was the Game Management Advisory Council – at that
time we had to put it on the ballot – we put it on the ballot and we had 39,000
voters voting for a Game Management Advisory Council. Why did we do it for
the County? Because it was for a home rule idea. It was a home rule idea to
be able to have our County support no aerial shooting. It was also County
support where we wanted to be able to have a closer relationship with out
County Council members and our people. It’s hard for our people to go to the
State level to go and testify. It is hard for us to do that – but to have it at our
County level – it was a great idea for home rule – so at that time we added
the verbiage of traditional, customary practices to the Game Management
Advisory Commission verbiage – which we believe should be first and
foremost – your reason for existing and why I’m saying that is because our
Hawaiian people knew how to manage their resources even before western
man with spiritual practices and this is the issue – I know you’ve read that
before but it needs to be front and foremost in your center vision because it’s
going to help you help your hunters, your gatherers and your fishermen – we
don’t like to use the word “hunters” when it comes to using your customary
practices because it is gathering your resources – it is gathering your
resource and you have the right to do that for everyone. So with the close –
with the fishermen – it’s not only hunters – GMAC was not only for the
hunters – it was also for the fishermen. It was for gatherers and that is
something that we wanted to remind all of you is that issue. I’m gonna give
you an example of what happened. We had a hunter that was being
investigated of transporting and replenishing – why can we not replenish our
resources as its being taken? Why not? You put closures and hope that it
comes back together again or why don’t you put replenishment? Replenishing
back to your forest as well as your ocean. Why? Because we do not have a
Game Management Plan for the State of Hawaii. Now that is 2011 – this is
the hunters’ issue from number 1 – from day one – no game management
plan for the State of Hawaii. We are the only state – in Hawaii – without a
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game management plan. Are we gonna let that continue? Well, at the time
the Board of Land and Natural Resources it was Bill Ayla – Chair – that stood
on the opposite side of our hunters and fishermen saying their mandated to
eradicate – they’re mandated to this, they’re mandated to do that. Well, if
you’re mandated to do something without a game management plan then you
will always have your problems. You have your Japanese brothers that are
coming from Japan showing you how to take care of your pigs – it is not about
trapping – it is about the laws that you don’t have in place. It is about the laws
and rules and regulations that’s – that is allowed by our government and the
Department of Land and Natural Resources who are enforcers - they’re not
the managers – there’s a difference – enforcement / managing. Two different
things. If you do not have laws that manage your resources we will always
have this problem. To help our economy – to help our food resources – how
can our hunters and fishermen and people that are ranchers use their
resources if they don’t have opportunity to add value to their resources and
their products. Add value? How do you do that? Game Management Plan –
meaning you work with the Feds to be able to allow your food and resources
– we only have two slaughter houses – you have to have your puaa come
alive – you cannot have it tainted – you cannot have it bloody because it gets
tested. Now all of these is not because we don’t have – we have an
abundance of pigs – it’s because we don’t have a plan as to how we’re gonna
manage our resources – our pigs, our fish – you going take from the ocean –
this is our culture – then you should replace it. Hilo – is damaged. Our
shoreline is damage. We have no fish. I should know – I fished when I was a
little girl here in Hilo. I know where all the fishes are. They’re not there – we
don’t have species anymore. Does the state think about replenishment plans?
No, because East Hawaii is not designated a priority district – what does that
mean? Monies and funding does not come to East Hawaii because we are
not designated by the Feds and environmental special groups like Nature
Conservancy – for resource protection – that is the reason why Pele Defense
Fund worked with the hunters. Hoomu – you can use this verbiage that we
stuck in there with Dominic to help our game management council home rule.
You work closely with the hunters and fishermen – you should allow them to
help you help them – manage it well. DLNR is enforcement. They’re not
managers. That’s their job. And how are you going to do that if you don’t have
a plan? Any questions? No questions for me? There’s a difference – there’s a
difference with practitioner – there’s a difference between practitioners – you
cannot just get one kumu hula just because they pound one ipu – anybody
can do that. On the Board of Land and Natural Resources Mr. Sam Gong
(sp?) I’m sorry – you need someone that understands what the practice is
and that is usually handed down traditionally. Someone that actually practices
the belief of Pele – someone that actually practices the belief of Kanaloa from
the ocean – the person that actually practices in front of their shrines that has
been doing that and know how to do that and they’re not just there
entertaining. You can get anybody to do that. So there’s a difference. If you
gonna find somebody to talk about and called a practitioner – they better be –
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there better be a criteria for that and that is what’s wrong with all of this – at
every level – Board of Land and Natural Resources, DAR, at every level,
NARS, right? They have a traditional customary practices. When we started
pushing this they started to shove people to cover the puka – these guys are
not qualified – so who writes the books for qualification? Who does that? The
very people that \[sound like cheaps or cheats\] the State of Hawaii without a
game management plan. Any questions?
KU: When you said native Hawaiians for their gathering and cultural and spiritual
rights – would that include people that were born and raised here or is it just
exclusive to the Hawaiian...
NP: Well, that’s why you have to read your Article 12, Section 7. It is a law now –
it’s a State Constituion Law – it’s not a rule, it’s not a regulation. And this is
what it says – where did it go – I’ll repeat it again – so anytime that you have
any problems with how this law is used – just pull that out – I’m gonna pull it
up right now. It says, Article 12, Section 7 – OK...
TN: Although the constitutional rights states native Hawaiian it doesn’t mean any
other nationality cannot abide by those laws cause it’s our constitution.
NP: Right...
TN: Because it protects native Hawaiians it also protects the rest of us that want
to exercise our gathering rights...
T: There’s a difference – let me define that, OK? There’s a right for native
Hawaiian and there is the law for conserving your resources – where you can
participate in that – you have to abide by the rules and regulations that are
brought up to you by the State of Hawaii Legislators but this law – it was a
constitution in 1978 that specifically says the State will affirm – oh, my gosh –
reaffirms and shall – can somebody pull it up – somehow this is not... I’m
sorry – this is important – this is really important – Article 12, Section 7, is
misunderstood.
The \[unclear\], yeah, I’m sorry. Oh, here it is, OK, I’ll read it. The State
reaffirms and shall protect all rights, customarily and traditionally exercised for
subsistence, cultural and religious purposes and possessed by ahupuaa
tenants who are descendents of native Hawaiians who inhabited the
Hawaiian Island prior to 1778. I think that’s very, very specific. So, one of the
things that we were going to work on to help our hunters and fishermen and
we can adopt you can go with us – you know what I mean – is the fact that
you allow a Hawaiian their exemptions – why is the State of Hawaii allowing
our native Hawaiians just like the Native Americans to have exemptions. Now
if you – if you had a game management plan like all the other states have
they include that to their game management plan – is the fact that Native
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Americans have a card that says they have the right to gather for subsistence
only – not for commercial use. Why don’t we have that? Now, if the Hawaiian
decides to go over there and start to practice – you can bring your cousins,
your uncles and aunties and a Filipino that are not Hawaiian to be with you -
just take the Hawaiian – you see what I’m saying? Why is it not being done
here? Pele Defense Fund has been working on this exemption for a long time
– why are we not doing that and why is this? Because game management
plan is not available. Manage – not enforce. Enforce is pau already – that’s
penal system. I stood in a courtroom with a lot of the hunters and fishermen
that have violated regulations from fishing with a small net or even a spear –
took his son to show him how to spear in a little pond - DLNR took them to
court. Now, there’s not separate court for our customary practices \[unclear\] to
criminal court, did you know that? Our hunters and fishermen go to criminal
court – they stand with all the criminals – now how does that make me feel as
a Hawaiian – standing there knowing that it is my right and I have to be in
front of judge telling me, you going pay for violating a rule and regulation.
Rule and regulation is different from State Constitution. This is not being
abided by and it should start here and the Game Management Advisory
Council and this is what we’re here for here today. Any more questions.
GD: I think, you’re encouraging us to take multiple steps, here, right? Starting with
creating a game management plan so how would we go about doing that on a
County level?
T: That would be great. We can help you with that. We can help you with that.
When we – this is where you work with your hunters, your fishermen, your
native gatherers to create a home rule plan that will help you partner – not
beef – partner with enforcement – partner with DLNR, with DAR, OHA,
ground level – county level.
NP: For a little history – for years now as GMAC has been in existence we’ve
been fighting and fighting and fighting for a game management plan and
we’ve been hounding the DLNR, we’ve been writing letters, we’ve had so
many testimonies about it – they’re so resistant. So that’s the problem that
we’re having is their resistance to make a game management plan – that’s
the problem.
T: May I ask you a question, Nani? Who is writing this - the people or GMAC?
NP: There’s been different committees wrote different game management plan
proposals – draft plans and then they got changed by the DLNR so they were
unacceptable and so it just kept being unresolved so, in fact, I have them right
here – one of the draft game management plans and there was a committee
of hunters that worked on it really hard, but the DLNR keeps just letting it fall.
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T: This is where you’re gonna need the help of your people – that’s the \[unclear\]
ground level – home rule. You nourish your people – they’re not at the state
level – they’re here – they’re down in Keaukaha – in Puna...
NP: But the DLNR does not want a game management plan...
T: It’s not about what DLNR is...
NP: No, I know…
T: ....OK. It is about what your people are talking about and this is where you
have your people come here and support you. The power of the people in
everything you do – there were 39,000 voters that put you into place – the
same power they had here on the voters’ ballot can do exactly that again. It’s
the people. You need to engage them. That is basically what home rule is.
They’re not flying a plane to the State of Hawaii to go and sell smoke meat –
kalua pig so they can get the plane – they’re here. They need to be in your
rooms – they need to be here and listening to them about the issues and get
them to support you. Do legislation – do a referendum on your ballot like they
did before. I haven’t seen one like that yet. Have you done one since its
inception? Since GMAC’s inception did you do a legislative bill – a
referendum?
NP: HCR 22 – we got that through to value our resources.
T: Nani, the Game Management Plan – is that the initial plan or is that the
revised plan that DLNR had done – the plan you have.
NP: There was an initial and then a DLNR revised plan, which had a lot of
problems in it – as far as, you know...
T: So did the committee meet again and go over the changes that DLNR had
done? Has there been an actual workforce on the management plan?
NP: I’d like to invite Tom up to explain that a little bit.
TN: Of what?
BKK: Before we move on I just want to let everybody know that we are hitting the
45 mark…
T: Did I talk too much? Yes. Well that’s what you get for not putting me up here
a long time ago...
BKK: To answer that question I’ll have Nani or Tom answer that right now.
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TN: Terri, thank you for being here.
T: I’m not here to point fingers, I’m just here to help.
NP: We know that...
TN: I hope you’ll keep meeting with us and keep reminding us...
T: Sure...
TN: And find out a way that we can bring hunters back here cause we’d love to
have them back here.
T: Well, let me tell you – you keep the hunters engaged – they’ll be here. Thank
you. And fishermen.
NP: Thank you.
TN: What is the poster you have – I’m curious.
T: The mission statement from Pele Defense Fund. You can look that online.
TN: OK. Thank you.
T: Peledefensefund.com
5b. Hu Honua Bio Energy - Forester
BKK: Mahalo. All right – presentation 5b we have the Honua Ola Forrester –
Stanley I want to recognize you to do the introduction.
SM: I’m not sure who he is...
BKK: Go ahead and state your name for the record as well, thank you.
GC: Good evening. My name is Guy Cellier and I’m the forester with CN
Renewable Resources and the sister company to Hu Honua is CN
Renewables and I’m their forester – let me know if you can’t hear me – I
enjoyed the last presentation very much, I came to the Big Island in 1996
after working on subsistence issues in Alaska for some years where there is a
very well established hunter-gatherer tradition, of course, many different
species and well regulated. I think the take of deer in 1996, 1995, the year
before I left was 5 deer per person for the year and every year the number
changed and it was a very interesting process – same with salmon and all
sorts of other species. I don’t have a presentation – I’m here to answer
questions. I think I’ve read the minutes of last month’s presentation by Kevin
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Owen about the plant. I think there were some questions that related to the
forestry and the trees and I’m happy to answer those – just one more
background – a piece of information – when I came in 1996 it was to convert
the sugar cane lands on Hamakua and then Kau to plantation forest. So that
was my job. I started a company to do that – I worked with Kamehameha
Schools and then Parker Ranch to do that and it’s primarily those trees that
we’re not harvesting and we’ll be replanting for the plant.
TN: What exactly is your direction of the forestry land that’s being cultivated and
what will happen to that land after cultivation? Is it replanting, renewable –
keep it there, I mean, what are the plans and do you have the problems of
ungulates in your forest area.
GC: I just have to think how to answer that – the, um, plan for the plant – we have
thirty year plan as far as making sure the resource is renewable. The trees on
average will grow 7 years – any planted tree will grow about 7 years
depending on where it is and then be harvested and replanted. So it really
depends on which land we’re talking about. If it’s Kamehameha Schools or
Parker or State or County – depending on where the land is it’s more the
owner that’ll dictate what is – how it is managed and how it’ll be replanted but
for our plant to be sustainable they will be harvesting and then they will be
replanting.
TN: Once again, in your being sustainable harvesting and replanting – are there
problems with ungulates – our wild animals – I mean, is there a problem in
your forest – do you allow hunters to do there, I mean, what are your policy,
rules, regulations.
GC: Again, I think the – it will depend on whose land it is. Kamehameha Schools
have their own set of rules, Parker Ranch have their own set of rules. We
have single use leases to grow trees. What we have done previously on
Hamakua was establish – in the Paauilo area we established a hunting a club
and that worked very well with – meeting with and forming a hunt club that
pretty much self-regulated on the land – we – you know, they don’t do any
damage to the trees so we’re happy to have hunter-gatherers in the forest –
there’s no problem with that and there’s no, um, good reason not to be there
– we don’t build fences – we are quite happy to work with community on
those issues but the land owner – Kamehameha Schools, for example, will
require some – or did in the past – and I assume that’s the same today – that
they would require insurance and so the hunt club – as a club – would have to
carry that insurance.
TN: Private landowners, especially Kamehameha School has a waiver – so it’s
something that can be dealt with, with the hunters and I’m not sure your lease
with Kamehameha School is like or what the verbiage is in there to protect
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themselves from liability – so it’s something that hunters would have to work
with you and Kamehameha Schools...
GC: Right.
TN: Once again, because it may be state lease land – do you know what the
verbiage is on your lease regarding hunting?
GC: We have different leases – we have leases with Kamehameha Schools and
we have – at the moment – with Parker Ranch and no, I don’t have that with
me – no – but it does...
TN: But you do have with state – state lease land?
GC: No, we don’t.
TN: You don’t? It’s just Kamehameha Schools and Parker Ranch...
....so you would have to look at the lease agreement that you have and what
it would say about hunting...
GC: Correct. And as I said, ours is a single purpose lease – which says we are
allowed to plant trees and have no other rights to that – all other rights revert
to the landowner. So that would have to be worked through with both the
landowner and the hunting club and it needs to be a club – in our experience
it has to be a club because Kamehmeha Schools did require insurance of
quite a significant amount so that somewhat prohibited individual hunters on
the land.
NP: I thought that was interesting. So how large are your trees – the babies that
you plant to replace, um, they’re already started and are they – how large are
they when you replant?
GC: It’s just to give you some perspective – when we did the initial planting that all
came through – I was responsible for that and we planted about 10 million
keiki to get the trees done – the seed I have in my possession the improved
seed that we will do the next crop with – it’s – it’ll take about 8 to 10 weeks.
NP: Well, my question is actually – so you said that you encourage wild mammal
– no problem....because they don’t damage the keiki.
GC: Correct.
NP: Well, that’s very interesting. So you don’t need to fence them. How amazing.
Will you please tell the DLNR?
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GC: We’ve had this discussion before...
NP: Our forests are being fenced because they’re saying the wild mammals are
damaging the forests, um, especially with their new plantings so that’s
interesting to me.
GC: Right, we’ve worked with Parker Ranch with grazing and we like the cattle in
the trees because they keep the grass down – so what we see on Parker
Ranch…is an agro-forestry system where you can have the grass, ah, excuse
me, the cattle among the planted trees and you see a lot of pigs in the
gulches and the native forest areas.
NP: Well, that’s interesting cause this is what we’ve been fighting – is that the
game animal are good for the forest... they manage the wild grasses...
remove fire fuel – so that’s very interesting – you’re actually appreciating...
GC: Right.
GD: If I remember correctly last time there were some questions raised about the
toxicity of burning eucalyptus trees in the plant, um, so I have a few questions
regarding that, I guess, is, are you aware of any concerns in burning...
GC: I’m not. The minutes I read talked about the possible toxicity in the albezia
that had been poisoned, so if the albezia’s been poisoned there could be
some remnant chemical that goes in but, um, we would have to test that – we
haven’t got access, we haven’t been invited to use any albezia like that, um,
I’m a scientist – I have a Ph.D. in forestry – my instinct tells me that it would –
that we would not find any trace elements – I think it would be – I think the
tree would have used it up – to be honest – but I would – we would test it if
we were going to get any.
GD: So currently the plant’s plan is to burn eucalyptus in...
GC: That’s what we access to at the moment – we have lease – we have a
Kamehameha Schools lease in Kau and we have the Parker Ranch lease so
that’s our primary focus right now.
GD: Is eucalyptus usually used as a fuel to burn traditionally?
GC: It is. Traditionally it’s one of the highest value papers in the world...
GD: Right. I’m not sure if this is accurate – but I think it was a Chinese company
that was coming and logging here not too long ago – or a Japanese company
that was pulping it but...
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GC: No, I think those logs were actually going for furniture is what I heard, but I
wasn’t involved in that, um, going to China for furniture.
GD: Do you plan on replanting the same eucalyptus or a different species of tree?
GC: It depends very much on where we are – so we’ve, um, there are about 600
different eucalyptus species in their native Australia and it is one of the most
widely planted hardwood species around the world so Brazil has millions of
acres and South Africa, where I’m from, has millions of acres. It’s a very
widely planted and steady tree but it does depend – they vary very much by
elevation and temperature and moisture and things like that so, um, it
becomes a matrix of what – where to plant which tree – but eucalyptus –
because it’s so well known and studied and grows so well – as you can see
outside – that’s definitely where we’re going to start but we’re after with this
particular project we’re after the, you know, the BTUs of the tree – the burning
– the burn ability not so much the look of the table or the structural content.
GD: And so in terms of the transition period between cutting down a tree and
replanting – are you doing clear-cutting and then mass replanting or how
would that process work?
GC: It would be field-by-field so we can - we need to have about 20,000 acres
under cultivation so we need to farm and it’s with type of forestry it’s – and
we’ve done both over the years – we’ve planted millions of koa for
Kamehameha Schools and sandalwood for the Queen Emma Foundation but,
um, with production-plantation forest it’s, it’s field-by-field and as the field is
planted, exuse me, as it’s harvested within three to six months we would be
replanting. Now, some – having said that – some of the areas where we will
harvest – the landowner has to make a decision – so in Paauilo there’s the
potential for an area that is going to go to a community group and not come to
us – in which case they don’t want it to be replanted but where we have
access and the right to replant it will be very quick.
GD: And those 20,000 acres, ah, sorry...
BKK: George – go ahead and finish and then we’ll get him over to Grayson.
GD: Are those 20,000 acres the capacity needed to have a like sustainable
amount of wood coming into the power plant to continue production
continuously?
GC: Yeah, that’s the measurement.
GH: Is fertilizer or herbicides gonna be used?
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GC: There will be probably as we plant – we will likely use a pre-emergent just to
hold the weeds down while the trees get a start but it the trees – most of the
cypric is simply plowing a bed about as big as this table I’m sitting at – a
bedding plow will come and build a mound of earth – in a row – and, um, we
turn the soil, cultivate it and then put down one herbicide and at planting
about a – we always said \[unclear\] it hasn’t changed about a Vienna Sausage
can full of fertilizer and that’s just to give the trees a start. But they will grow
on their own with this – with what’s in the soil – it’s just one...
GH: Are you guys testing the streams during this process?
GC: What stream – I’m not quite – I don’t understand the question that – it would
depend on where the streams are. We’re testing them for? Are you implying
for runoff or what are we testing for?
GH: Possibly runoff. We used to go catch river opae or hoopu in a lot of those
streams and so I’m curious what kind of impact that might have on the
streams?
GC: There are quite strict regulations that we don’t plant up to or through streams
– so in general the trees filter the rain and stop soil runoff, if that’s the answer
– no, we haven’t tested but I don’t see the amount being enough to, you
know, it’s not like a gold course – we don’t apply chemicals like that – it’s a
small amount of fertilizer in the hole that you put the tree into.
GH: Thank you.
TN: I’m not a forester and I don’t understand cultivation and replanting but after
you cut down the trees there’s the stumps to deal with so what happens to the
stumps? Are they just cultivated back into their...
GC: Traditionally what happens with eucalyptus is it’s in that bedding – the soil is
piled back on to the same row and that will smother any regrowth. Now –
eucalyptus have the ability to regrow out of the stumps so that’s almost the
preferred way because if the – if there’s good regrowth than we don’t need to
plant - we don’t need to do anything – we just let it regrow – and it would
grow like a bush – there might be five or ten saplings and we would leave one
or two and just break the rest so it’s a very minimal – there’s no – it’s very –
for us it’s economically good because we don’t have to use any chemicals –
so regrowth is good. Where we only have a few stumps then we would
replant as well, but the stumps – when we have in the past we’ve done –
there was concern some years ago about stumps remaining on the ground
and so we did some experiments where we killed the stump – we did spray it
with a herbicide and the smaller stumps were gone in about two to three
years and the bigger ones were four or five years. And they rot away,
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especially on the Hamakua side – the Kona side would take longer cause it’s
dry but on the wet side they rot away within a few years.
TN: The saplings that you replant, are they about 12 feet high or are they...
GC: About 12 inches.
TN: Twelve inches high...
GC: Quite small – they’ll have root...
TN: And so the ungulates – the pigs – whatever animals may be in the area – they
don’t harm your saplings?
GC: The cattle – we’ve never had a problem with pigs, um, cattle we would like to
keep them out for the first year – that’s what we said with Parker Ranch. The
trees – if we do our job properly – then they’re growing at about a foot a
month – so within six months they’re my head height and at the end the year
they’re twelve foot high and...
TN: And then you would allow cattle to come in...
GC: And then you can have cattle in...
TN: And then they keep the grass down…That’s a great ecosystem of working for
the animals and plants.
GC: Right…Where I’m from – Zulu Land, South Africa – we let, you know, we
were approached after plowing a field to plant eucalyptus by local farmers
who wanted to farm peanuts and that seemed like a good solution because
peanuts are nitrogen fixing, they keep the weeds down and they were getting
about a ton per hectare so about half a ton an acre of peanuts and I always
wanted to do that here but we’ve never quite managed to have the – find a
farmer who – had a peanut farm – to be honest. It would be a nice idea if you
know anybody.
GD: In terms of carbon off-set from the plant and the forest is it a completely net
balanced type system?
GC: You know, we, um, we had consultants from Australia recently and what they
found is ultimately it is – it’s just a matter of time – because we would be
harvesting – the trees we would harvest now on Hamakua are quite big – that
we, you know, we planted them in the late 1990s so they’re twenty years old,
um, and some of them are quite large to twenty some inches big and they’re
holding a lot of carbon. With the sapling we’ll put in are going to be small but
as they grow they will compensate and when we reach a sustainable plateau
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it’ll be neutral. The other part about the carbon is that – if you think about it –
well, I’ll tell you – is that there’s about as much wood above the ground as
there is below the ground so even if you harvest to ground level you’ve got all
the carbon that’s cached it in the roots and that stays and it rots away and
then that becomes nutrients for the next crop. So, if you were to harvest
everything all at once we would be at a – a low level – whatever the word is –
but over time it’ll balance out and then it will be sustainable.
GD: Over time does the soil level also grow as...
GC: Yes. We found – we did studies when we, when I first started because there
was concern about the nutrient levels of the old sugar cane lands and so
much of the top soil had been broken away but we did study it and found that
it was about an inch a year of top soil that was building up – now I don’t think
it just goes on forever – but there is – because the trees – these eucalyptus
lose so many leaves they break down into...
GD: For the transport between the forest and the plant – I’ve heard concerns that
it’s many miles – maybe thirty and it would require like twenty trucks a day –
something...
Could you give us some numbers on that?
GC: It’s between 20 and 30 loads a day so we calculate about 10 trucks
depending on the distance – so if it’s Kau it’s perhaps only two trips a day, if
it’s just outside of Pepeekeo then it’s 3 or 4 trips a day, so, there’s more loads
that can be done – but it is a significant amount of wood that has to move,
um, I live in Waimea so I drive to Hilo and I drive to Kona and around to Hilo
and I had a conversation the other day with Kevin Balog of DeLuz trucking
was amazed at how many trucks he was telling me are on the road so I don’t
think our trucks are going to make – we will use only small contractors – our
only contractors – to do that trucking but I don’t think you’re going to notice a
big shift in what we see, I mean, there is more traffic but as one of the
speakers said earlier that everything, I believe it was Abraham, all our goods
come in on boats and ferries and, you know, that’s how we get all our food for
the most part so – the trucks are there – we will add some but we’re not going
out and buying new trucks. We have bought trailers to – that are specifically
designed to be safe to transport logs, but, um, the trucks are here already and
moving goods everyday to be honest.
TN: This is Teresa. In scheduling your trucks – most of the large transport trucks
that leave from Hilo to the rest of the Island are travelling at 10:00 at night,
12:00 at night, 2:00 in the morning to avoid traffic. Would you consider
moving your trucks when the least amount of traffic is happening because
your traffic into Waimea, as you well know, is, right now, because they’re
fixing the road…especially – and all of our roads are gonna need to be fixed –
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that you’d be flexible enough to take into consider the traffic flow. The other
question I had is part of Grayson’s question because I come from the
Hamakua Coast. I don’t know how many of the gulches constantly run but
those that do run – are the natural resources that we gather the opae, the
small crayfish that we use for subsistence and I was wondering if you take
that into consideration – those gulches that are constantly flow that the
chemical use on the land is not seeping into those waterways. I would
appreciate that if you could come and give us a report that if your finding of
the gulches that are naturally flowing, you know, most of the time, not just
when there’s heavy rains, but most of the time...that some testing be done.
It’d be just a good, you know, partnership that...you can have with use, cause,
you know, it’s our natural resources we want you to protect. Thank you
GC: I will definitely take that back with me. I think that testing can be done fairly
simply but that’s not my expertise but I will definitely look into it. I’m not sure if
how – that was the first part of your question – oh, the hours, um, if I can just
talk to that. The Pepeekeo community, where the plant is, is quite strict about
trucks after hours. So they only want trucks arriving daylight hours, I believe
it’s 6:00 to 6:00. Six am to six pm, so that does confine it a bit so that, you
know, it wouldn’t – to me it would it right – it would make sense if it was done
at night but I think there are restrictions on that, but, I...
NP: Those aren’t really GMAC issues, I think.
BKK: You state in the beginning that you guys had a hunting club.
GC: Not at the moment...
BKK: Not at the moment...
GC: I established and managed all the Hamakua plantations for about twenty
years and in that period we did have a hunting club – all the – the community
had a hunting club. We allowed access onto the land and that worked very
well.
There wasn’t a problem. Any, you know, any unresolved problems in Kau,
um, I talked to quite a few hunters and they go mostly through the plantation
not in the plantation itself, but they go out of Pahala Town and they go
through the plantation up into the forest reserve where there seems to be
much greater hunting, um, and that access in and out has worked quite well,
so it can be on an individual basis and it does have to be, I think, as Teresa
said, um, something that’s worked out with the landowner and ourselves and
the local community.
BKK: I want to open up one last question, so... Anybody? No? OK. Well, thank you
so much for coming in today. I appreciate that.
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Minutes – April 15, 2019
NP: Thank you.
TN: You did give us your contact information?
BKK: Oh, if you just sign-in that’ll be great. Yeah. All right, so moving over to Old
Business.
OLD BUSINESS:
BKK: Without Jim here I would like to table 6a. I would also like to table B & C,
cause I didn’t get any letter updates and I have no updates for our previously
created committees. So without any objection I would like to table 6 a, b, and
c. No objection. OK. Moving over to 7a – Legislative updates...
NEW BUSINESS
7. A. LEGISLATIVE UPDATES
NP: So what’s the difference between Legislative Updates and Government
Relations Bill update?
BKK: Good question.
NP: So can that be one – all the same?
BKK: Yeah, it can be all the same, that’s fine.
NP: OK, um, so, um, with the Legislature – our one remaining bill – all the rest of
our bills have been shelved, which, you know, they can be resurrected next
year so, um, but HB 1325, um, it made it a long ways – wow – one, two,
three, four, five, six committees, um, and now it’s in Senate Judiciary and
Ways and Means and the wording’s been changed all along the way but one
good point about it is that it says in the bill that the State GMAC – that, um,
watershed initiatives have to be approved by the State GMAC and so that’s
really the main thing we’re fighting for so, um, that’s good news and we’ll see
if it makes it this year, um, there was a vote in the Legislature this morning to
reinstate Suzanne Case and Bob Masuda for DLNR and they won the vote so
they’re gonna be remaining until 2022.
BKK: To clarify that – they went through the Senate Committee first and now
they’re gonna go to the session.
NP: Thank you. So that’s all I have to share.
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7. B. SHOOTING RANGE UPDATES
BKK: Thank you. So what we’ll do then is combine 7b with 8d, which is the
Shooting Range Working Group, so, um, Nani that’s you again.
NP: Yeah, so I’d like to introduce Tom Lodge – our former Chair – to give a
presentation on our shooting range development that we’ve been working so
hard – mainly Tom.
TL: Tom Lodge, you know we all the popularity of shooting sports and back in
2016 we talked about gun range at the Commission and in January 2017 we
had a meeting in GMAC – we adopted a resolution for a gun range, which
then went to the County of Hawaii and in August of 2017, the County of
Hawaii adopted Resolution 246-17, which created a working group for a gun
range and that was in August and in November of that year we talked to Bob
Masuda about one of the areas that we were looking at. That was in
November and this is Puu Kaohe, which we’ll talk about here in a minute –
that’s with Deputy Director Masuda. Right after that letter that we sent to him
– the State came out and approved an area – Robert Farrell spoke to the
Commission several times from the DLNR – DOCARE. DOCARE is
responsible for gun ranges or the Hunter Ed program, which is DOCARE.
They approved the 16-Mile, which is not 16-Mile for Hunter Safety so the
Marino \[sp?\] Camp Trail – those of you that hunt up there are familiar with it –
it’s off Saddle Road by 16-Miles. So what came out of that adoption is that we
then went back to the County, wrote letters to each of the County Council and
said, hey, we need to have somebody run this program for the County – so –
a government agency – so what the Council did is they mulled it over. We
wrote a letter – Nani actually wrote this letter to Harry Kim and it was that
letter that stimulated Parks and Rec to take over lead in the gun range. Now
we had follow-up meetings with Parks on April 17 – we had on who was
gonna lead this thing – they left it up to GMAC working group to bird dog this
thing and then they would follow-up with this. We’ve been kinda doing that
ever since, ah, in May we follow-up meetings on the site discussion and we’ll
get in to the original site that we started off with – I wish Jim O’Keefe was
here this evening – he could speak to his outline that he has but we went
through the site and we were looking into the process – we did this on
November 15, with Joey Mello and GMAC – we met with Parks as to where
we go and the feasibility. The feasibility came back to bite us, so to speak,
here shortly. This is the original site – now this is on the military side of Puu
Kaohe and the military actually came to us about this site – and so we were
working in conjunction with the military at that time. And it was pretty – it was
a good site and we had access – everything about that site – there was
nothing really bad about that site – it was potentially available – it’s currently
utilized for exercise – military bought in – no bad – the problem with it is that
for it to be given to the County would require a major renegotiation of the
lease with PTA and they’re coming up with a lease situation right now – they
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weren’t going to go into any kind of renegotiation for anything, so, but, Gordon
Hites (sp?) said, you know, but right across – right over the hill there is a site
that we have currently, which is Puu Kaohe – and this is the site that we have
right here that we’ve looked at – Parks has looked at it and everything about
this thing, in my estimation, there’s no bad with this site. It’s within an hour
from Hilo, Kamuela, Kona, um, and within a mile of the park up there. The
weather is great. There’s about 6 inches of rain each year. The wind is calm,
usually from the east between 8-12 miles an hour. Noise has been an issue
for gun range no matter where you go – Pohakuloa had to address noise as
well – and they addressed it for two things – not only for people and
complaints from noise of which you’ll see here. You know, Waikii Ranch
eighteen miles away in Kona – but the birds and the helicopter flights. That
was their primary thing with noise. As far as the gun range goes – it turns out
that birds will acclimate so even in palila critical habitat shooting isn’t gonna
affect any of the birds up there – they’ll get used to it, so to speak. Mauna
Kea also has amenities, restrooms, trash cans, lockable at night just facilities
there. Perfect area in our opinion. But, we met with DOFAW – GMAC met
with DOFAW also and representatives from the Big Island – Dave Smith was
up here – Dave Smith loves that Puu Kaohe site – he envisioned the State
running it – DLNR – Bob Masuda primarily - said, no, can’t do, not there –
noise. So it got shot down from the State doing it and we’ll get back to what
happened to us here in a minute. But, in the meantime, 16-Mile Marker is
available for shooting – you have to have a hunting license to shoot there –
but is available 7 days a week and you don’t have to have hunter orange and
all that stuff. Now, on April 8 – a couple of days ago – we met with Mayor Kim
– he decided that for cultural reasons, he mentioned, that the County doesn’t
want anything to do with Puu Kaohe. Said they’re more interested in
developing a relationship with the State and 16-Miles and, ah, which, you
know, the only reason, the only problem that we see with 16 Miles is basically
the weather and the distance – Kean can attest to that – it’s not adequate for
a lot of different types of shooting that’s going on – so we miss a lot of
opportunity there so Puu Kaohe or Puuanahulu is still something that should
be on the table for GMAC – now Mayor Kim has assured us – he wants a gun
range – he absolutely says I will get a gun range and I’ll do a gun range – so
the question is where is it gonna be and Puu Kaohe has some issues – if any
of you would like to have that binder that we did on Puu Kaohe, I’d be happy
to forward it to you – just let me have your email address and I’ll get it to you.
16-Miles has some personal safety considerations – several concerns have
been raised – firing line, parking, you know, people driving in front of you
when you’re shooting, I mean, little things that can be handled – rubbish is
another issue that I think that needs, I mean, if we’re gonna shoot someplace
– pick up your opala because if you don’t somebody’s gonna shut it down for
us basically is what’s gonna happen. OK. Now Mayor assured us that he
wants to have a firing range that they want to build on. Puu Kaohe is not
gonna be it unless something changes so we’d like to work on Puu Kaohe –
continue working on it – we’re trying to get a meeting set-up both with Harry
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
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Kim and with Bob Masuda to talk about it – what their issues really are up at
Puu Kaohe – cause noise shouldn’t be one of ‘em. That’s the only thing that
they’ve offered. Critical habitat has been ventured – U.S. Fish & Wildlife
Service has said critical habitat will not impact a gun range and they’re not
gonna step in for a gun range in that area, so that’s Harry Kim saying – now,
Dave Smith – I talked to him last week and Dave Smith, the current
administrator for DOFAW in Honolulu said that Bob Masuda has pretty well
shut down anything to do up on Mauna Kea and they now want to refocus on
Puuanahulu for a gun range and, um, which is OK by me. Now we have Bob
Masuda saying that they’re gonna refocus on Puuanahulu – we have the
Mayor saying I want a gun range – so maybe this is a marriage somewhere
that can happen but that’s basically it – we don’t have a gun range yet – but
we’ve gone a long way towards getting one. I’m open to any questions if
anybody has any. All right, then...
NP: Thanks, Tom. That was a good report.
TL: You were with me every step of the way there so I appreciate that. OK.
BKK: Thanks Tom. All right. Moving over to committee reports. Anything from
Traditional/Customary Practices.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
8.b. TRADITIONAL CUSTOMARY PRACTICES
TN: On our email from Donna there was an attachment and I was wondering if
you would all look at it – it’s the Native Hawaiian Access Rights Project and
it’s interesting reading because tonight Terri talked about traditional practices
and it goes into details of what the Hawaii Coastal Zone Management
Program, Office of the Planning Department, Department of Business,
Economic Development and Tourism – State of Hawaii and if you read upon
it, it helps us understand better what our practices are through the Traditional
Native Customary Rights of Article 12, Section7 and goes into details of how
they want to implement that in our areas from the mountain to the ocean.
Thank you.
BKK: That was emailed to everybody, correct?
TN: Yes. That was emailed to everybody.
BKK: So it’s in the record. OK. Anything from Public Relations and Communications
Committee? Nothing from the Committee on Mauna Kea information and
nothing from the Committee on Wild Game. Do any commissioners have a
report from their District?
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COMMISSIONERS’ REPORTS BY DISTRICT:
NP: From my district – District 4 – Lower Puna – Abraham’s been helping me by
talking to Ian Cole who just walked out, unfortunately to get him to talk to us
about re-establishing access after post lava on public hunting areas in Lower
Puna but we’re hoping to still take a tour of the different public hunting areas
there and talk to DOFAW about re-establishing access for the hunters so
that’s on the table...
GD: I’m still working on the inquiry that we voted on last meeting – I’d like to just
get things together and make sure we ask the right questions and you know
\[unclear\] so I’m still working on that...
AA: So what’s that?
GD: Last meeting there was an inquiry on the Hu Honua project right after their
presentation we, I think as a commission, right, decided that we would like
ask further questions and be in communication with them regarding our
mission and what we can do for the Pepeekao area.
TN: George is referring to our minutes that I moved to have a letter drafted to
inquire as to our impacts of our hunting and fishing that Hu Honua Ola may
have and it was seconded by George so hearing the forester tonight – I think
he’s a good reference and resource for us to inquire our questions regarding
hunting in their forest area. We learned a little bit more tonight by his report
and I guess we can give a more detailed question letter to him that George
and I will be working on. Thank you.
AA: Been working with Ian Cole for a little while. They recently finished clearing up
Tree Planting Road to gain better access for the hunters – the road was
totally encroached. Also, right across the street there’s this other area called
Frog Pond in the Puu Makaala area right below the NARS area and they went
clear right around and they came up through the top and then they supposed
to be working on going into Flume Road and doing the same thing there
cause it’s just – some of the areas are just impassable so they had equipment
in there and they was clearing up the road so... They doing good.
BKK: Any other commissioners’ reports?
KU: The range on the 16-Mile Marker – I was very fortunate this morning to go up
there. They’re working upper range and fine line is moved about 35 yards
forward of where everyone shoots. The angle will be more towards the Hilo
area and the top range will be 50 yards now, instead of the traditional 100 that
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
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we normally shoot. The second phase will be the lower range and that will be
when they have time, so – the range is closed this week, so everyone will
know. Thank you.
ADJOURNMENT
BKK: Anybody else? OK. Is there a motion to close?
BKK: Teresa Nakama moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:32pm. Seconded by
George Donev. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote.
Respectfully submitted by:
Donna Urban-Higuchi
Secretary
ATTEST:
Bronsten “Kalei” Kossow, Chairman
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