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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-10-29 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: October 29, 2019 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building – Council Chambers 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:30 pm. Stanley Mendes, District 1 – here Kean Umeda, District 2 – present James O’Keefe - District 3 – present Naniloa Pogline, District 4 - here Abraham Antonio, District 5 - here Grayson Hashida - District 6 - here District 7 - vacant Teresa Nakama, District 8 – aye George Donev, District 9 - present Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Malia Hall, Corporation Counsel Donna Urban-Higuchi, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim GUESTS: a) Hawai’i County Parks & Recreation Deputy Director Maurice Messina report on alternate ways the Department of Parks & Recreation have been using to treat weeds in Hawai’i County Parks without Pesticides b) East Hawai’i State GMAC Commissioner Ryan Kohatsu Report c) Commissioner James O’Keefe presentation on proposed Puuanahulu Shooting Range NP: I want to thank all the commissioners for coming. They’ve been really good about showing up. Great Commissioners. Thank you, guys. 1 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: September 10, 2019 NP: Teresa Nakama moved for approval of the September 10, 2019 meeting minutes as submitted. Seconded by James O’Keefe and carried unanimously by voice vote. FINANCIAL REPORT: NP: George Donev moved for approval of the October 31, 2019 financial report as submitted. Seconded by George Donev and carried unanimously by voice vote. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: NP; We will accept statements from the public now and/or anytime during the meeting. Anyone have a comment at this time from the public? We’ll move on to our presentation. Mark Crivello – 3C Goat Grazing. MC: Good evening everybody. My name is Mark Crivello with 3C Goat Grazing – just came up tonight to thank you guys all for doing a wonderful job – you guys are all doing a great job – would like to thank the County of Hawaii for giving 3C Goat Grazing opportunities on grazing lands they have – looks like we’re moving forward with eliminating herbicides and doing more environmentally friendly \[unclear\] so I want to thank everybody for the opportunities and seeing what our animals are capable of and as we go on – hopeful 3C Goat Grazing’s animals will get to prove that even our wildlife are capable of doing the same type of work that we do in a large scale. MC: That’s what I wanted to share with you guys – everybody’s doing a wonderful job – I thank everybody for the support and the help everybody’s been giving me and our company so thank you guys so much and thank you guys out there in Kona too. NP Thank you. Goats and sheep used in land management – it’s up and coming – it’s happening all across the nation – more and more for wildfire control – in Spain – goats are called fire fighters – that’s their name. So it’s not just here, so, um, without anymore to do, I would like to welcome up for our first presentation we have Maurice Messina, thank you so much, from Parks & Rec who’s gonna come and share with us – apparently in this month – I’m sure you’re gonna talk about it – Bill 101 has been going through the County to 90% discontinue use of herbicide for land management – I’ll let you continue… 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 PRESENTATION: a. Hawai’i County Parks and Recreation Deputy Director Maurice Messina report on alternate ways the Department of Parks & Recreation have been using to treat weeds in Hawai’i County Parks without Pesticides. NP: Thank you so much for coming. MM: Maurice Messina, Deputy Director of Parks & Recreation. I was asked to come in and talk a little bit about our department and what we’re doing to reduce the use of herbicides in our parks. Start off with a little bit of the budget – we have in about the last five years we have our budget for herbicide use weed management has dropped about 45 percent, um, put that in real numbers, the fiscal year 2014-15 we had budgeted about $54,000 dollars for our vegetation control and for our 2019-2020 budget we put that down to $29,677 dollars. One of the reasons behind that is we’re using – we’re deploying different methods such as trying to bring on board things like what Mark Crivello is doing with 3C Goat Grazing. We are using Friends of the Park Agreements which is kind of like Adopt-a-Highway for our parks and what we do is we bring these guys in who want to adopt as section of our park to take care of it without the use of herbicides. They’ll bring in volunteer groups and we’ll do a Friends of the Park agreement with them and whatever specific area they want to work on we ensure no herbicides are sprayed in that area. We also don’t use herbicides in any of our – near our playground equipment, um, we really, really restrict the use of any herbicides on our ball fields and I think it was Act 45 that was signed by the Governor last year which also speaks about restricting use of herbicides within 100 feet from a public school. So we also make sure that we do that as well. Different things that we’ve tried like at the Honokaa Park Complex where we have the walking track where people walk with their dogs and everything – we don’t use any herbicides on that – we try either burn it with propane or we try to use salt water on it. We’ve tried vinegar on it – we’ve tried whatever we can to basically keep the herbicides away from that, um, we’ve also – we also have people that come in and talk to us about different chemicals that they use that are eco-friendly – pet friendly – family friendly and our park planner and I – what we do is we take those things home and we use ‘em - we try ‘em on our driveways and stuff like that to actually see if they work or not, um, we’re gonna be starting a pilot project with Beyond Pesticides where we’ve identified four of our parks for them to come in and do soil testing – the soil testing isn’t about chemicals in the soil or anything like that – it’s to test the soil and see what is the best way to protect the soil and to build the soil and the grass without using herbicides or pesticides, um, the pilot project we’re gonna be working on are the fields in Waikoloa, Pahoa fields, um, specifically the Pahoa Fields because we used that as a shelter during the lava and the fields got really, really messed up and we’re gonna be using FEMA funds to resurface those fields, dig ‘em up, put sod back down and we figure the best 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 thing to do is have Beyond Pesticides go out there and tell us what our soil is before we actually do the work – that way when we put the soil back down we’ll know how to take care of that without the use of herbicides, um, Hilo Soccer Field #4 – the reason we put that one out there is because it retains a lot water so we want to try areas that are dry – areas that are hard as a rock some places – areas that have a lot of clay in ‘em and the last one is the football field of Old A’s in Kona – so as soon as we can get the proper paperwork through County Council and the resolution gets passed we’ll start working with those guys to have ‘em come and do the pilot project. They’ll also be coming and training our park maintenance workers on how to care for fields without the use of herbicides, um, now all of that does come at a cost so we would need to in our budget we’d have to bring in more staff, more weed eaters, more trucks, more gas – to try to take care of the fields in this manner. We’re still reviewing Bill 101 and we look forward to seeing what the final bill is going to look like before we have much comment on that – but we are working with all the council members and identifying our funding sources and the budgetary increases that we think that we’re gonna incur and are there any questions? TN: Where in your project are you using other than herbicides the grazing of goats and sheep in your test project or pilot project – where are the natural remedy of using goats and sheep? MM: So we did the pilot project with 3C Goat Grazing – we needed to get that pilot project done to 1) see how the animals interacted in a setting to where we had soccer – we had kids around – we had other animals around – it worked out perfectly with 3C Goat Grazing the way they used the sheep and goats and Mark – you can correct me if I’m wrong on this – but goats are kind of picky eaters – sheep from what I understand are more of a grazing stock – I hope I don’t have that backwards – and so once the pilot project was finished we were able to use all o f those perimeters to put together and RFP that is currently right now with the Finance Department and once they get finished reviewing it we’re gonna put out a request for bid for a certain amount of goats for a certain – what we learned is that 3C Goat Grazing can do about an acre in a day and that’s kind of the perimeters that we’re looking at because that means we can get ‘em on a field and get ‘em off of field without shutting the field down too long. Certain areas – like when we put ‘em at Hilo Soccer Field it was the back area where there was a lot of grass growing and they exposed a lot of what the homeless were doing in the area and so we had a lot of trash afterwards and things like that and we didn’t receive one complaint for the week that 3C Goat Grazing was out there – nothing but the most positive comments. I think the Mayor visiting two or three times – a lot of different people came out and saw what it was about so it worked out pretty good. So that’s where we are. As soon as we can get it back from Finance we’re gonna make it public that we’re looking for bids for a certain amount of 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 goats, a certain amount of sheep and so much acres that can be taken care of in a 24 hour period. TN: So how long will the RFP take, is it a 2-month, 3-month, 4-month – what are we talking about? MM: We’re waiting to hear back from Finance on exactly – we don’t want it to take 3 or 4 months we want it to be a little bit quicker than that if possible but I’ll be able to answer that question – I can give you guys a \[unclear\] date once we receive it back from Finance.. TN: That would be great. I would love an update. Thank you. NP: Richard? RH: I have a question on a different subject but it has to do with the Parks & Recreation Department. The skeet trap range was closed somewhere around the end of June and we were told it would be closed for a period of 8 weeks to be rebuilt. It’s now 18 weeks and we have no clue as to what’s going on and when it will open. It turns out it was very poor timing since the game birds hunting season opens this weekend so all the people that want to come down to practice – it’s not a good time to do – let me put it that way – but what’s happening now and when can we expect it’ll be open. MM: I can provide a solid date. I can’t do it right now, um, but what we’re doing is we’re completing some ADA tie-ins at the skeet range right now. So once we built the tower it came up a little bit higher than what we expected because of the levelness of the ground so we’re pouring out slabs to tie it in through ADA right now, um, and I can provide this Commission an update as soon as tomorrow – I just have to go back and speak to my construction guys and what also we can do is we can inform the public via a press release of what’s the status and when we expect to open it back up. RH: Thank you. NP: Great. Thank you. That was a surprise question but the word spread that you were gonna be here so... Thank you for bringing us up-to-date on that. Jim O’Keefe was gonna ask you the same thing so... MM: And I can tell you guys – that once you go out there – once we open it back up you’re gonna be really happy with the work that our construction crew did. It was all in house construction, um, all of our own carpenters did it – we’ve got a whole group of four and so they took care of everything and with our Park Planner and we worked through DPW as well – and once we start working on an ADA issue – once an ADA issue may be identified by our contractors – even if it wasn’t part of the plans – then we have to go out to 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 DCAB and run our plans through them and through DPW and unfortunately, if anybody knows, it does put a little bit extra time in anything when we start having to look at ADA tie-ins. So... That’s the reason for the delay. AA: Our previous meeting we had people from the public that address that issue that the salt actually breaks – that is not good for the soil – so what are you guy already using? MM: We try to use it in areas that we can’t get to like rocky areas and things like that where really soil is not the issue but, um, it became too cost prohibitive to continue using that so we tried it for a little while and then knowing how much salt to put down and what’s the water mixture – but in the areas that we tried it was more rocky areas than anything else of soil issue... AA: So how was it really working? AA: How did the vinegar work out for you guys? MM: We tried with the vinegar – we found this recipe that was vinegar, I believe, Blue Dawn dishwashing liquid and water. It was OK but in areas where animals were around it really messed with their noses, um, it leaves a long, long scent on it, um, when I tried it on my driveway it was the same thing. My animals didn’t like it too much but the issue that we have is no matter what we try everything is still gonna come back – it’s just something that needs to be continued and continued and continued. So what we have to do is identify the solutions that are gonna be a good long term effect, something we can budget for, something we can find readily available cause we have about 162 facilities with about 282 sites throughout the Island. We have almost 550 employees, however, 160 of those employees are in Parks Maintenance and then a still smaller section of that are our park caretakers. For instance, in Puna, we have 17 sites that our park caretakers take care of, yet we only have 9 park caretakers including their supervisor and that’s all the way from Shipman to Isaac Hale up to Volcano for that area so we’re trying to make the most impact that we can with the limited amount of resources we have, which is why I was saying that if this project does expand – Bill 101 does go through and we have to go through zero herbicide use – I believe it was 2023 – then we’re gonna need more manpower to help out with that. We’re also gonna need some assistance from the community in their parks – in their community parks where they area – we’re gonna be asking for help – we’ll be asking for help from the ball teams, we’ll be asking for help from anyone who uses these fields, um, and everybody’s gonna have to understand that a little bit of pokey grass, a little bit of weeds and stuff – they’re still gonna have to make do with it on the fields. NP: Hopefully funds can come from other locations, I mean, I would think, if a bill passes that should mean allocations of funds. 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 MM: We hope so – we didn’t see any funding in the bill. NP: Well, we’re not gonna lie. Our main interest is goats and sheep. So we really appreciate that the County’s willing to have pilot projects and to experiment with goats and sheep because we believe that if they’re properly managed that’s our whole point – if they’re properly managed they can be very beneficial to endangered native species and the whole works – friendly eco- systems, right, right, um, so also we’re really wanting to get behind you – if there’s any way we can help as a Commission, um, with promoting the goat and sheep for land management we’d like to work with on that and we’re hoping to make an example to the state – that’s what we’re really hoping – I’m hoping – that the County will be a great example of a success story using goats and sheep for land management and I had a question – so Mark Crivello had brought this up to me that what are the possibilities of capturing and relocating goats, I guess, particularly sheep probably maybe from troublesome areas where they’re troublesome in Kona mostly and putting them where they might be better suited and could actually – the wild goats and sheep could just be managed in certain way where they could be used for land management. MM: That’s a little bit outside my lane. NP: That’s getting ahead – that’s jumping ahead.\] MM: The zoo does fall under Parks & Recreation but, you know, catching goats and relocating we don’t have that ability right now. NP: Mark can do it for you. Anyway, right. Well thank you so much Maurice I appreciate you coming tonight and we feel very encouraged and supportive. MM: We appreciate the opportunity to get the word out and like we tell everyone, especially the Friends of the Parks – that any idea that they have we’re willing to try anything. We do see the writing on the wall and we can see someday in our society herbicides being at zero use and so any ideas that anyone has they can come to Parks & Rec – they can give us a call – they can shoot us an email and I guarantee we will try it – we’ve tried everything told to us so far. OK. NP: Keep all those names of emails and testifiers – were there over 100 emails and over – over 200 emails and over 100 testifiers at the hearing, right? Yeah. So there’s a lot of support out there. MM: OK. Thank you. b. East Hawaii State GMAC Commissioner Ryan Kohatsu Report 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 NP: Thank you so much. Next we have Ryan Kohatsu - he’s our East Hawaii State GMAC Commissioner and he’s going to bring us maybe a little more up- to-date of what he knows is happening with the State Commission. RK: Good evening Commission. I guess I’ll start with some general stuff about the State GMAC and then, of course, can answer any questions and get more specific. Current Events – don’t quote me on this – I think June is our last meeting because that was when few members had turned out so I believe Molokai and Kauai members turned out – so that was the Chair at the time Lorie Buchanan and what’s the Kauai guy again – I forget his name – and the Kauai turned out – both did not continue their terms so I believe there’s a replacement for Molokai and I’m not aware of a replacement for Kauai yet. Maui never had one show up – they had a guy but he never showed up and then Kona had a couple but I believe Glennon resigned so Kona is also open as well unless that’s been filled – I haven’t been made aware of it – my term terms out 2020 – I think that’s based on the fiscal year so June 30, 2020 – something like that – and then more currently the next meeting is scheduled for November 19 – this happens in Oahu at the DLNR. I believe it’s gonna be in the Land Board but, um, as usual, six days ahead per Sunshine Law they come out with the agenda and all the specifics for that so if Big Island people want to be on Oahu – check that out. One of the things that has always been on the agenda and something I’ve always focused my efforts on has been Puuwaawaa and Puuanahulu – the Habitat Conservation Plan and related incidental take license, um, without too much specifics that’s just been the priority of everything I’ve done and I – it’s the only the effort that the State has ever worked on to try to work with endangered species and native species within areas that people hunt and maintaining non-native animals that are there already for the purposes of hunting so it’s been going on forever. I don’t see any progress – to be honest – I know I’ve met with some members of this Commission in potentially looking at legislation to move this thing forward because the leadership of the DLNR is not gonna move it forward without some kind of motivation so, ah, external motivation – so to speak – so that’s one of the efforts I think the guys on Big Island who like to hunt sheep and goats particularly archery sheep and goat hunters – they should take some priority and focus in and actually every mammal hunter on the Island should take note – should take note of this – because pretty much every hunting area of land probably has endangered species on it and as long as it has endangered species on it those species tend to take precedent over all the others unless some plan or policy allows it to be so – this is the only one the Department’s working on – this is the only one the Department will ever probably work on unless you motivate – unless we motivate them to do others so that’s always been a priority, um, what else – that’d be about it – other than that – since a lot of people turned down a lot of their initiatives kind of died so I guess we start all over again – I know the Oahu members wanted – they were supposed to work on some kind of management system with the 8 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 goats in the Waianae area – I’m not aware of anything happening other than nothing happening so, ah, not aerially shooting ‘em in a certain area and that’d be about it as far as looking at a structure of some kind of policy going forward – the usual treated with contempt and everything else is for the Department leadership more important than the hunting stuff so... Other than that if you guys got specifics or questions I can elaborate on anything there or anything else you want to entertain. NP: So there is gonna be a State GMAC meeting did you say November 19? RK: It’s tentative November 19. NP: If we wanted to ask questions about the State GMAC we could ask you but is there someone else in DLNR we could ask – get an update about what’s happening? RK: Shaya left the DLNR. She used to handle kind of all our scheduling and building the agenda so now Jason Omick is filling in for her duties. ?: \[not speaking in mic\] RK: That’s been asked... RK: The video one... So that’s been asked before to do a video – I requested that when I first started – I kinda gave up asking – like everything else I asked of the Department so, um, you know, the public want to do let’s go do it. I mean, I can ask anything you guys want - it’s just they ain’t gonna do nothing that they don’t want to do so and I’m not talking about the staff guys that you see here, you know, to their defense they only follow their leaders and a lot of time the leadership is pretty – they treat us with contempt again. NP: You can’t apply for another term? RK: I think I can do like a holdover or something like that... NP: That’s it? Because with the County we can – if our term was under two years, right Malia? But the State is different? RK: I think there’s a holdover process but then the senate confirmation happens during the Legislative Session so I think you’d be held over to the next Legislative Session or something like that and then you get confirmed. I’m not entirely sure – something like that. NP: I’m wishing you will. Go ahead, Richard. 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 RH: I sympathize with Ryan but the one thing that I cannot understand for the life of me – is there is no way to contact State GMAC. RK: Right. RH: If I go to the website I see a list of the people that are members of it but there’s no contact information...there was never any contact information for Shaya. RK: Oh, wow. I’ve never seen the website so... RH: Maybe when you go to your meeting you might say why don’t you people put in your contact information. I think you’d get more input that way. You know, how does the average Joe Schmuck get anything sent in. RK: Well, I’m an average Joe Schmuck too, so... RH: We’re all Joe Schmucks... RK: I send in all kinds of stuff to them, also, you know, if everyone were to opine in as well – that’s be great. Maybe I’m just jaded – they’re not gonna listen to me. RH: I’m just suggesting you might get more on the agenda that way. RK: I guess this is going on on an opinion – not so much information – I think what is kind of important is, you know, when legislative thing happens or say even the Commission – it, yeah, it takes time and it kinda sucks that you have to go to Oahu to get these things done but unless they see the Big Island people or they see the folks there – they’re really kinds don’t care about us. So it sucks so I don’t know if public is listening organize funding or whatever you gotta do to find a way there and then really focus your efforts on things you want to see done because without a face to the thing that’s there – they just see me and they’re tired of listening to me so... RH: I served four years on the NARS Commission. I know exactly how the State operates. And you’re right... If you’re not there you’re invisible unfortunately. NP: As far as the County GMAC what we’re hoping is to work with the State GMAC which really hasn’t ever happened yet and, um, so as our East Hawaii representative in the next meeting if you could promote that in 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 communications and maybe even in handling the same issues like our bills that we want... RK: Absolutely... I don’t know how your guys budget works but say you guys came up with a letter or some kind of communication from this County GMAC to the State to the DLNR – it would be of political visibility and value that a member from the body would show up and present that as well …. NP: Oh – that we would show up... RK: Get on the agenda... NP: At least send an email... RK: They want to see your face... NP: I don’t think I can fly to Oahu but... RK: That’s the problem, that’s how they treat everybody on the outer islands – they don’t care about you unless you’re there. NP: What if we wrote up a little thing and maybe you could read it for us? RK: I can totally do it – I’m just telling you I’ve been doing that... NP: Yeah, it’d be better if you showed up. I don’t think the Mayor’s gonna pay our way... c. Commissioner James O’Keefe presentation on proposed Pu’uanahulu Shooting Range JO: I have a question relating back to doing teleconference or a video conference... The University of Hawaii has tremendous facilities for that – they have a number of meeting rooms – classrooms – things – throughout the State... ....that we could – if we could use that – one of their facilities – as a meeting room on Oahu and arrange for the – to be able to have that presence here in Hilo and the other islands. RK: They have the direct capability at the DOFAW office. Between the Land Board office and the DOFAW office they have the capability to teleconference. JO: They have it at the DOFAW...they could do it to DLNR 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 RK: They can. It’s whether they want to do it or not, yeah... They can though. JO: Let’s request... RK: I’ve requested this since the beginning... NP: That’s a great idea... JO: Let’s petition? NP: Petition... RK: The same rules apply though, so, yeah, when you do that if you would ever lose connection for that I believe... JO: Right, the meeting stops. RK: There is a small risk of more things to go wrong... JO: That’s called an early night off for my class at UH. TN: Would a motion be in place that any communication that we have to the State GMAC it be in letter form and maybe if we have it in our budget to send someone over with that communication it’s something that we might want to consider to do a yearly thing to have a show of face because this is what Ryan is telling us – that we should have this intent to be a part of the State GMAC by showing up – so it’s something we need to consider in our budget so we can have, you know, if our budget allows it – that we should send someone with the communication of whether it be House HCR 22 that we need to push forward or the other two bills that we want to address to become bills is something we need to work directly with the State GMAC. Well something to consider as a motion, I think, that we could talk about and then push it through. NP: I’m a little confused on exactly how that motion would read. TN: With any correspondence to the State GMAC – whether it be our lobbying for the bills to go through and we need to support that through State GMAC that we take it out of our budget to send someone to represent those bills to the State GMAC Commission so they can present it to legislation. NP: Right to go – to give testimony in some way. I’m preferring teleconferencing right now as a method. I’d like us to be able to look into that and then – do we need to make a motion for that Malia? 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 MH: Travelling will take prior approvals – let me just start with that – so you would need approval from the Mayor for that so, yes, I think that you should start with teleconferencing as your first option, um, the motion, I mean I – what would the specific action be for the Commission. NP: I don’t think we need a motion we just need to find out some information. MH: Maybe just assign it to a committee. NP: We’ll just put that on hold Teresa? And we’ll make that motion later when we’re clear. TN: It’s just something to think about because what I hear from Ryan is that we need a body over there in order to be heard. If it’s just him communicating it doesn’t mean they take us seriously but if we have a body over there they may take us seriously, especially if we need the two bills that we’re trying to put together and the House – the HCR 22 bill to go through is something that we need to be a presence and yes, you know, let’s do teleconference – Ryan – what do you need from us for them to be serious enough to have a part of your meeting through the teleconference – what will it take for them to take us seriously that we want to be part of your meeting. RK: I guess I’ll request and see where it goes. What would really help is on the agenda items that a heavy Big Island contingent would have such interest in it to want a testifier or be there or listen to it. Um, and let me elaborate something interesting on that – so since my time on the State Game Management Advisory Commission it’s no surprise, I think, to anyone here – the priorities and the way, ah, hunters are on the different islands are very different so in not so many words – I would – the whole reason why you guys have a county GMAC here and the whole reason why even have a state one is because a lot of hunters realize that on the trajectory that we’re going or the way that the DLNR manages game is to just let us kill whatever we can. If we somehow wipe ‘em all out on our own we become eradicators – they don’t care – so it’s kinda, you know, it’s self-defeating toward the hunters’ future or the hunting program future – that’s how Big Island guys think – that’s how maybe Maui and Kauai guys think – but something really interesting is the folks on Oahu generally don’t have as much – I’m talking in real general terms which I hate doing but just hear me out here – the folks on Oahu generally don’t have as much public hunting opportunities so they bite at any possible opportunity they get and in that sense there is no thought toward the resource or how you’re managing game there – they just want to go hunting – they just want – in short – just kill stuff – go get something. Well, the Department resides on Oahu – all the leadership resides on Oahu – all they see is that Oahu – their interests or how they prioritize what they want to do and I would say that, in general, the Big Island hunting community is different from that but they want to treat us the same way, so, I mean, no BS – like literally the 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 verbatim communication I get sometimes from the leadership of the Department is Ryan, how about we just open up all the areas for your guys, you guys go kill what you want – whatever, every day, you know, guns blazing, and you guys would be happier if we do that – literally – like I’m not kidding you guys – it’s literal from the DOFAW administrators so, um, obviously, maybe he’s doing it on purpose – right? He’s not a dumb guy - maybe he’s saying it on purpose just that he knows there’s a few people that would bite on that – but, um, all I’m saying is that’s how it’s viewed on Oahu and having the Big Island interests or that’s showing, that, eh? It’s very different over here or something like that – can’t hurt, you know, \[unclear\] hurt right now but... NP: If they really think that the hunters on the Big Island think like that then they haven’t read any of our emails... they haven’t read any of our letters... they haven’t paid attention to anything we’ve ever said for years and years. RK: Right, even for the folks in the public, you know, in the process of some of these things that we’ve been doing – I noticed that the Oahu leadership – they’ll gravitate toward folks that share the same idea, so, you know, if there’s one guy on Big Island that wants to go be an eradicator – want to go kill whatever they want on the public hunting areas and stuff – just know that that person is gonna – they’re gonna give him a voice and they’re gonna try to push that agenda so,you know...you guys got friends or whatever – let them know that it’s not helping. NP: We’re gonna talk more about that. Would you say your name? GM: My name is Jerrik Medeiros Gracio – I reside in Pepeekeo. Question. When is the GMAC hearing for the State for our Island? Do you guys hold a meeting like this? NP: Only on Oahu. RK: It’s all on Oahu. We did one on Big Island though – I don‘t know when that was. GM: With our GMAC county members here will they be able to help us get back to home rule – to eliminate central Oahu from making our decisions on our hunting and fishing grounds. NP: Home Rule would be good. GM: Would be awesome. You’d probably in charge of it, you know.... RK: DLNR land... 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 GM: DLNR land most of ‘em is DHHL – Hawaiian Homelands – most of them in the Conservation part of it needs to be watched very carefully, right now, it’s not being watched. We’ve got illegal water diversions that is very – look what happened – we get staff on Bayfront now because there’s not enough water in our rivers from this illegal diversions, you know, there’s a lot of issues that DLNR \[unclear\] is making decisions from behind their seats and they’re not coming here and they’re not including corps engineers to come and do environmental assessments. That is the most important thing, you know, so if we can try for 2020 the people that’s running – we all support them in the honua and take that kuleana away from central Oahu and put it right here on the Islands where our voices of our hunters really going be heard. NP: Right – where the bosses are coming from Oahu centric mentality and has nothing to do with us. GM: I mean, they really don’t connect with the land, they really don’t care. For me to see what is really depleting – the resources is being depleting too at the same time, you know, the opae all those stuffs is important. For GMAC to be able to take that away – that’s our constitutional right. They’re raping us of our constitutional right – to be violated everyday because of their decisions over in central Oahu but if possible we should all get on the same page and try to take that home rule and bring it back and let you folks be a big part of making decisions for our Island. NP: I appreciate, any support we can get of working together. Thank you so much. Any other questions for Ryan? Oh, right, right, we’re gonna keep our song and dance that we want game management not a hunting program – we want our resources preserved for the future – to be sure. TN: Ryan what is your contact number? RK: It’s just my whole name – one word – Ryankohatsu@gmail.com NP: If there’s no more questions – all right, thank you so much, Ryan. We really appreciate it. Um, also, ah, I was gonna talk a little later about our bills a little more. So now we have our Jim O’Keefe – he’s gonna do a presentation on the proposed Puuanahulu Shooting Range. JO: Thank you and good evening everybody. This is Jim O’Keefe – District 3 representative. I also wear a second hat – I am a board member and officer of On Target Inc. and the presentation I’m giving tonight about the shooting range comes from our work at On Target Inc. so... But because it’s the best one we have out there I figured I’d start with that. Now, I have a number of slides here. I will attempt not to do death by PowerPoint – but it’s a fairly comprehensive layout here so if we can roll through these and if you can hold 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 your questions until we get through most of them I’ll probably have covered your question throughout there and then we can wrap up at the end on that so... Ah, as this is a bit dated – this is from 2015 – so the numbers are probably a little higher as we go throughout but if you look at the number of firearms there are in the state – how many are purchased each year – a quarter million of those registered in Hawaii County – that’s a lot of firearms. We have about 6,000 a year being purchased and brought in here for people and over 30,000 in the last ten years and why this is important, um, well, we’ll get to it but there’s no legal place for the general public to shoot pistols and rifles and until the shotgun range gets back up – skeet and trap range gets up – not even for shotguns – but the vast majority of firearms purchased in Hawaii are long guns – rifles and handguns – pistols, OK? And if you were to go to the16 Mile Range public range there and you don’t have a hunting license you’ll have your firearms taken away – you’ll have a date in court and you’ll have a record, so, um, let’s see... Um, who goes shooting? We see a large portion of the public ranging in age, gender – our On Target shotgun safety program which we run in concert with the Parks and Rec Department here – we have had close to 200, Richard? Yeah, close to 200 students come through that program and these numbers are from there but it’s fairly typical of the shooting sports. Our oldest student was 79 years old – our youngest was 10 – a third of ‘em have been juniors. A quarter of ‘em been seniors and a third of them women and we’ve had a lot of families, you know, mothers and sons, fathers and daughters go through this so... It’s very, very open to it. Here some pictures of some of the classes we’ve had – some of the other things – the picture in the center middle – that’s actually two pictures so they’re not pointing shotguns at us – just so all you range safety guys know – now, when we say there’s been 12 years of shooting range research, planning and testing, um, that’s four years old information. We’ve been at this for 16 years now and it started in 2003, ah, we formed a working group in 2004. We identified what kind of funding was available for it in 2004. We had people from throughout the community. We had shooters, we had DLNR enforcement, engineering, Hunter Ed, DOFAW, we had representatives from the Police Department. I think we had Coast Guard, didn’t we? One time? One of the federal agencies I thought we had. We had the resort association involved in it, we had businesses, hunting clubs, gun clubs and this is what we started with in 2005 – just the conceptual layout of a range – what it would have. It’s probably a little small to see it but we had a large open archery area, we had trap and skeet sporting plays, pistol, rifle bays there – and we started looking at potential range sites, ah, we reviewed everything we had looked at over the past probably fifteen years with the information we’d had in 2005 we thought Puuanahulu was gonna be the best one – we did a sound test first time out so... And the criteria for picking a range was it has to have enough land size. We have to be able to have ownership of it – in some way or fashion – we have biological, cultural use restrictions – we needed to be able to control access to it. We don’t want people wandering in from the back side while there’s live fire going on – those kinds of things. Being able to get 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 to it by vehicle – getting on and off the highway. We wanted it where it’s not in the middle of the rain belt, you know, we’re getting 230 inches of rain a year or something because that makes for difficult shooting conditions. We wanted to be close to where people could – close enough so people could drive to it – had access to utilities and we had some control over the property – we could secure it against vandalism and theft. This is a list of the places we looked at over the years starting in 1990, um, and there’s quite a few of them and there are reasons that each one of them – one or more reasons where each of the others failed to meet those requirements and many cases there were few things that they met of all that list of requirements we had for the range so, um, this is the one we found that met all of what we considered to be important for establishing a range and there it is. It’s a square mile and its south-west corner is adjacent to the north-east corner of the Puuanahulu landfill and you can see by scale, you know, the distance between there and the Kohala Resort area – the Waikoloa Resort area. And these are some of the benefits of this – it’s basically a barren lava field with no endangered plants that can be identified – no endangered animals that could be identified. We have access through the landfill. We had an agreement back in 2007, I think it was, with Department of Environmental Management for access to it. Malia met with the Department of Environmental Management recently and that approval is still in place – we will be able to do that and right now it’s before the DLNR Board – they’re trying to get it before the Board to get an official easement so that could be going forward. Nearest habitation – nearest houses is 1.7 miles, which is a considerable distance, you know, for a range. We have prevailing clear weather and it’s predictable – it’s not going to rain there. I think the area gets about 10” of rain a year and that’s not only for the shooters that’s for the water table – that’s for the lead management and those things that are very important on a range. We did a sound test in 2005 – we had gun fire at two shooting range sites. We didn’t use any sound mitigation. We didn’t announce it in advance, ah, not for any particular reason but, you know, we wanted to do the sound test and the state participated in this and we recorded sound levels at 6 sampling locations and two of them within the resort complex and the sound of the gun fire was unmeasurable at any of the remote locations. The instruments we had they didn’t measure it at all. NP: Yet, people were saying, “Ah! I can hear it!” JO: We’ll get – we’ll get to some of that – yeah. Well that was 2005. We’ve done three sound tests. This is the first one, ah, in 2006 we got an agreement of principal on the land – access to the landfill – 2007 we got DLNR land use approval for that square mile – for that purpose. In 2008 we identified sources of funding for this that would allow us to move this project forward and in 2010 we actually incorporated On Target as a 501 (c) 3 non-profit organization so that we could accept donations – tax deductable donations for the purpose of doing our education programs and for building the range. In 2011 we did a facility design requirements manual and a facility master plan, which I’ll have 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 a slide coming up a little bit later. We needed to have an environmental assessment. A contract for that was awarded by the state by DLNR to PBR Hawaii, which is a big environmental consultant here – a public works consulting agency and we held two shooting range public information meetings in there that were extremely well attended – standing room only – both of those and those meetings were completely, 100% for the range. We had every shooter in the county, I think showed up for those and it was very supportive so... Let’s see. OK. We spoke with the Board DLNR Board – have an agreement in principal for a curatorship – in other words it will allow On Target as a 501 (c) 3 to help administer and oversee the range, you know, when it comes to fruition. We also decided to do a second test as part of the draft environmental assessment. We needed to do that – it’s part of the environmental assessment – the 2012 sound test was done by Taha Consultants – we came out with large Four Rifles and one Grand Thirty Ought 6 - .50 Cal. BMG. We had shotguns. We went out to where the proposed range locations were fired those again – no announcement to the public but we had representatives from the resort complex present. We recorded data at 6 sampling locations for them in the resort complex and again the gun fire was unmeasurable at any of the remote locations. OK. So after that we heard that the resort association was pushing back on several things – part of it was, you know, they were concerned about safety- they were worried about bullets flying backwards because they didn’t really know in advance what direction the ranges were and when we assured them that no, they don’t do that – only in cartoons – the ranges are pointing uphill away from you, ah, seemed to have mollified that but I think that’s still stuck in the back of the sound issue became a real sticking point for them, even though we’ve done two sound tests and they had passed with flying colors so... We had a sound assessment working group and I may get Richard up to give a little background on that but the upshot was the resort association just dig its heels in and said no we don’t want it – we don’t care what the tests show, you know, they wanted to argue about we measured it and what the two different sound consultants used to verify this and I’ll show some of that in a bit – so we did a third gunfire test – sound test – OK – and with it an analytical sound assessment and you’ll see the models here coming up – this was done by Censeo Consultants, again On Target provided the personnel, the rifles, the ammunition, the shotguns to be able to conduct another sound test. This one we did announce in advance and the public was well represented at the various areas in the resort – golf courses and things – we did it with and without sound mitigations device so that we could give the sound consultant the ability to measure just how much, you know, reducing the amount of sound could be accomplished – fairly simply and inexpensively and what that would mean for the overall result. We recorded the gun fire sound at the range site and then the consultant went and recorded background sound at the resort sites later on and recorded that data was used in the analytical sound assessment. Now the sound assessment is – we took a conservative approach – we assumed worst case conditions – we wanted to use the 18 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 loudest firearms we could bring, which we did, we wanted to caluculate what would happen with downslope winds – in other words towards the resort – we wanted to consider what would happen in temperature inversions, which happen occasionally and helps sound propagate a little further and we wanted to find the quietest places within the resort complex to test this so... We did – when we fired the rifle the sound levels would not project to be heard anywhere in the resort area. When the shot guns were aimed towards the resort they found that that could be detectable and the solution to that was to re-orient all the proposed ranges so that they’re firing away from that and again this is without sound abatement. And that was mainly it. Now – you’ll see here – this is from the last test – these are sound levels that are projected, you know, in the various winds and there are many more slides that the consultant did for this project and what you’ll see is the red circle then it’s a yellow, then it’s a dark green, then there’s a light green and then there’s a fairly light blue. That light blue represents a 35 decibel sound level – you know what 35 decibel sounds like? That’s what would be heard at that last light blue curved line so could it be heard? Well, if there was absolutely no traffic, no helicopters, no motor cycles, no construction and it was the dead of night – sure. But the range wouldn’t be used during the daytime, so... All right, so we’ve had three sound tests in ten years, we’ve gone with industry standard equipment – we couldn’t determine any gun fire noise in the 2005, 2012 tests – we used that sound incorporated in the computer model to predict landscape-wide sound travel and this is very well documented way of measuring sound and we find that the worst case gun fire sound is well within applicable environmental noise standards, OK. Now we did have one reported – one person reported that they heard the gunfire at one of the resort areas and it sounded like dat, dat, dat, dat, dat, dat. Well, none of us were shooting anything that sounded like that in fact, you know, I was the one with the rifle – I would be in jail if I was shooting something like that so not allowed. Turned out it was some construction equipment but that’s how – they were just anticipating the sound, you know, yeah, it’s somewhere on there so one of our board members was present when that was said so it was a point of some humor. All right. So here are the 2005 and 2012 sound test perimeters – the yellow check boxes and the red check boxes are from those sites where we had the pick-ups to try to hear the sound of gun fire and we had one that’s off the map – it’s up at the resort by the gold course – up there by Puuwaawaa and by the Waikoloa Village and throughout the golf course – the resort complex – our sensors couldn’t pick up anything. And this is our vision – this is what we would build towards – how quickly these things can happen is all a matter of you know what funding we can get and what order we do things in – but we would build to existing safety standards – that is an absolute must in any shooting range – use mitigation technology – there’s plenty out there that can cover much of the noise, reduce it significantly. We would have venues for all kinds of shooting activities – certainly one of the most important is safety training – that’s something that is in – people can go in and they can buy a firearm and they’re not required to have training. Pistols 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 you’re required to either have NRA safety training or a hunter end training, which has no real safety training involved in it so there’s a vast majority of people who buy guns that don’t get the kind of supervised training and safety education they should have and this is the kind of place that that can be done. Shooting ranges are huge revenue generators for surrounding communities – I’ve done some research and others in our group have too – the kind of venues we have here are – this is our dream list – this is not something that could happen right away – these are the kinds of things that all the members of the shooting and hunting community have said we would like this – we would like a 3-D archery complex, we would like to have sporting plays – some of our members like to shoot long distance – a thousand yard range would be really nice for those. NP: And you’ve got a square mile... JO: And we have a square mile to do that in so, yes... And that is the proposed layout and this is before we realized that we would have to reorient some of the shotgun field orientations so, if you look on the sporting place course it’s a full circle and we did that to minimize the amount of lead mitigation we have to do. Lead is a recyclable material and where we can keep it in the smallest compact area allows us to recover it very efficiently and inexpensively if, if – so that was why that was chosen but it’s gonna have to be a semi-circle at some point, so, yeah. This is typical – a blueprint of a typical pistol range – it probably doesn’t mean much but on the bottom right corner you’ll see a berm – that’s the backstop – this one here – I think it’s showing – I don’t know if I – I can’t read it here but I think it’s 14 or 15 feet. The standard now is 20 feet. And it’s 44 feet deep, which means if it goes up that much higher it’s gonna be at even a greater footprint and that’s one of the reasons that 16-Mile really can’t get any distance because they’re bordered in, you know, they can’t put up a 120 foot deep backstop because then they’ll have only half a range, so... NP: Right... JO: That’s a side elevation of that same kind of set-up so – but you need those kinds of – you need those backstops to be able to not only provide safety, even though what’s behind it is a mountain – but also to, again, collect the lead so that it can be recovered. That left in place is an environmental hazard – lead that’s mined and recovered is money in the bank. This is up at Saddle Road – up at PTA – they’re using a different kind of backstop here – they actually fill these fabric bags with cinder – it could be filled with sand, soil – they make for much higher backstops and sidewalls without as big a footprint. They also really help the lead recovery because once the \[unclear\] ones shot up within a few years you can just pull them off and then put a fresh one upfront and that becomes your way of recycling the materials. That’s the finish one there. OK. Back to our – there is the overall view of the range area in relation to the highway and the resort area. OK. We talked about – this 20 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 could be used not only personal safety – law enforcement here in Hawaii has one place that they train – that’s a cinder cone up on the Kohala Mountain Road – so that when the cadets – the new recruits have to train, you know, they have to drive from Hilo up there a good 70 miles RT maybe an hour in before it’s time to go back and stay within budget. So they don’t get a lot of training involved so... Our hunters would have a great place to do their new rifles, their new scopes – get ‘em dialed in before they go off to Lanai or Montana or Minnesota, you know, to go for that nice nine-point buck. Ah, there’s a big economic benefit – we’ve seen – I talked to the directors of the Chambers of Commerce in the Camp Perry Ohio area, Cincinnati – that part of the north, you know, Erie’s Post of Ohio and they cumulatively reap 20 million dollars every year from one series of matches that the NRA puts on at Camp Perry – it’s called The Camp Perry National Matches – they get 6,000 visitors annually and they’ve calculated that the bed & breakfasts, you know, the restaurants, the hotels, the camp sites, the local markets gets a $20 million dollar in flux to the community for that. The State of Nebraska – they figure that of their people target shooting there – they gain 124 million dollars in revenue – our Pacific International Trap Association – we have an annual match here – we bring in competitors from Australia, New Zealand, Japan, from Canada, from the West Coast, you know, the States – 75% of the competitors here for that event are from off-island so it brings in a lot of folks to Hilo, you know, it’s a very productive one. As a small business I catered them several years ago – many more than several years ago – and it was a very nice catering contract so I can tell you it’s a big boon to the community. NP: Yeah. Forget TMT. JO: This is one of our other board members is a competitive shooter in the National Sporting Plays Tournaments and their studies and what they’ve done total economic impact of several of these events are in the millions of dollars each one they do. It’s an amazing money-raiser there. Now for funding we have state general funds – we’re gonna need some of those to get moving forward on a range, whether it’s Puuanahulu or we have to do something else the money has to come through the State because they’re the ones that control the purse strings of the Pittman-Robertson Funding. Federal grants are possibly available. Private grants are a good source that we will have available once we have a site moving somewhat forward. We’ve been talking to some of the industry leaders about that and we do have commitments from people that when we’re ready to move they’re ready to make it part of their business strategy. NP: Well, it makes every bit of sense because so much as been put into it already... Why start all over again... JO: Truth, yes, and as a 501 (c) 3 we can accept tax deductable donations and we have – they have funded many of our youth programs, many of our 21 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 training activities have been from some very generous benefactors who have donated to this so that’s something that allows it to continue. Yeah, we’ve had 2500 community members sign a petition in support of the range – we’ve had a 16 year effort. I am please that the Deputy Director of DLNR – Robert Masuda – has put his might and weight back behind this effort to get this project going forward... NP: What has he done? I know he’s very supportive... JO: We are moving to and Malia will help me with this – get the Land Board to get that easement and we’re looking to get some language for the bill to get some funding so – until we get that it’s hard but prior to his involvement it was sort of lackadaisical support with the DLNR but we have an advocate there for that. NP: He made a public or verbal promise that he was very supportive and I was just wondering if that’s playing out in action. JO: Well, with anything with the DLNR it takes time so – and I’ve known Bob for many years, um, and I know he’s a man of his word and some. Yeah, OK. We’re gonna need a long-term funding plan and that’s part of what we have to do but the first thing that we have to do is get our environmental assessment published and that’s where we need the first funding to go there. On Target has been supporting this all along. None of our members get paid anything – it’s a total volunteer organization, ah, we survive on donations and grants from the NRA, which are funded by our annual Friends of the NRA dinner, which is by coincidence this coming Saturday at the Sheraton Keauhou so, um, it’s a big fundraiser for us, for the grants programs that the NRA funds, you know, range development, training programs – those kinds of things – not the politics of it. This is what I’d like to see there, you know, it’s a little bit of walk-up – that’s the Clark County Shooting Complex up in North Las Vegas there so – pretty – and it’s almost dry enough to look like, you know, the west side of the Island but it’s still a little bit off. That’s our dream, OK. A little bit about On Target – it’s just a statement about us and on our board among our membership are leadership really – we have eight N-Eraser 5 Rifle Pistol Shotgun instructors – we have a number of competitive shooters – we have five range safety officers – I am a Chief Range Safety Officer – I train others in range safety. We have a lot of us are First Aid/CPR certified – I also teach new instructors in the shooting sports – we have a professional gun smith and a couple of former police officers on our board – that’s a little bit about On Target and that’s the end of that. Dan would you like to, you know, that’s the Puuanahulu so let me entertain a few questions, you know, whatever you have here about that range and then let me ask our visitor here to talk a little bit about what’s going on at PTA because it fits into this real nicely. 22 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 TN: The area of one mile map that you showed us – who owns the land? JO: That is DLNR and it has been – I don’t know if “deeded” is the right word but it has been reserved for the purpose of the shooting range. TN: What do you mean “reserved?” JO: By the Board of the DLNR – they have approved its use as a shooting range and it’s set aside for that. TN: So is On Target gonna lease the land from the State? JO: On Target is not gonna lease – we have an agreement in principal as a curator for that, you know, and that doesn’t mean that we would be the ones doing it – it means, you know, until somebody else or a county or – no – the state agency steps in – we would be able to help supervise, oversee, help direct the activities there. TN: I’m not understanding. Can you explain to me that again? JO: It’s like the Friends of the Park – we don’t have an official business relationship – we don’t earn anything on that but we support the activity going on at the range under the – so we have to provide liability insurance, we have to have the kind of coverages that would satisfy the state. TN: So you’re saying On Target has the use of the land – not ownership, not lease. JO: We have no ownership or lease... TN: It’s a use... JO: Well, the use is for the public, not for On Target. TN: OK. MH: Teresa – it’s more like they’re the vendor – you know like if you had someone that came on to County land to sell something – it’s more like a vendor – not a lease. JO: But we’re not selling anything. RH: Let me help out a little bit. 23 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 TN: Right.The other question I have is when you did your sound studies – what were the air currents like in that vicinity cause I know Waikoloa to be very windy at times and I know – here in Kona the air currents 7:00 in the morning and 7:00 at night switches direction from ocean to mountain and mountain to ocean. JO: Right. TN: What are the air currents like there and when is the switch of the air current happening in the area and did you folks test that? JO: Yes. The sound tests – the last sound tests the 2015... TN: Not the sound test... JO: Well, let me explain... TN: The air currents... JO: The evaluation included the direction of the wind, the recordings were done at the various complexes, the wind speed, the provocation of sound levels and that was all – you saw the sound provocation map – and there were... TN: What time during the day... JO: ....a number of those that looked at it with winds at various directions, in other words, from the NE, the trades, from the ocean, you know... There were four different directions. TN: Right. But what time during the day was that. JO: No, that’s not how that was done. We didn’t wait for four different changes of wind to do the test – we know what the sound levels are at the source of the gun fire and we know what the sound provocations is with winds in various directions and how that would travel throughout there, um... TN: I guess I’m asking what time of the day was the test done – was it morning, noon, afternoon, evening? RH: It doesn’t matter. You need to understand how sound tests are run. We know what sound we’re gonna create. We use a mathematical to propagate that sound over the landscape which takes into account all the vegetation, the hills, the valleys or whatever – that’s all in the mathematics. 24 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 TN: OK, I understand that because late at night I’m up on Mauna Kea and I can hear the waves crashing on the ocean. So that’s why I ask what time of day – what the air currents were like and maybe that’s something to consider. NP: Maybe we should keep moving along cause we’re pressed for time. So thank you so much Teresa and let’s see, go ahead Richard. RH: I would just like to quickly address that issue of the curatorship. We went before the Land Board and we asked for a document that showed that OnTarget Inc. and the State of Hawaii had a curatorship agreement for the development of a shooting range. The day before the meeting the Attorney General came up and said you can’t really sign a curatorship agreement cause you don’t have anything now. You’ve got to wait until you have a range. So the Board – if you go back to the minutes – the Board agreed in principal that we would move forward with that curatorship agreement when and if the facility got built. GD: Who owns the range itself? Would that be still the County? JO: State of Hawaii – Department of Land and Natural Resources, yes. GD: It’s DLNR land... JO: And it’s fairly typical for government agencies to have memorandums of understanding, memorandums of agreement between different agencies - state and county for instance we have lots of those – in my work. It doesn’t mean that the ownership is changed just who’s using it presently is allowed. NP: But State land is actually public land entrusted to the DLNR... JO: That’s correct, yes... NP: ....they don’t own the land to be sure... JO: Point well taken. GD: So then the range would be completely public in a sense. JO: Yes. It’s planned as a public range, this is not for a private club. NP: State your name again. DP: My name is Dan Peddie – I live up in Volcano. I recently moved from Honolulu. I just retired from Oceanic Cable and I was there 20 years – I was in the marines in Kaneohe and all this – I’ve been to all the ranges all throughout of Honolulu – came here in December and found that there’s 25 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 really no good places to go shooting. I went up to PTA cause I do stop there often – I go shopping at the Exchange – ran into Michael Donnelly who is the Public Affairs Officer there. Explained my situation that I would like to do a range up here for the public because at Schofield Barracks we have one – it’s called the Schofield Rod and Gun Club – as they do in Ewa Beach – they also have a marine corps range there as Kaneohe – so a lot of these military bases do offer rod & gun clubs but there are certain rules and restrictions that come with that. So he said that he believes that his commanding officer would like to do something with the public and he would like and what I’m asking is can we do an exploratory committee to see about going up there – meeting with the colonel and seeing if there’s something that we can go ahead and do. There are some restrictions and the restrictions are if you go \[unclear\] military base, of course, you have to have – the vehicle has to be cleared of everything, your – as far as your vehicle has to have the tags and everything proper done – you’re probably going to have to do a background check on yourself – I don’t know what that costs but that would have to be done as we did at Schofield and so if that’s – if this is all approved and they’re – fine – my goal would be to try to get it once or twice a month – but we can only do it – go to the range up there – when they’re not actually training – so – but as I understand it too – the land is owned by the State and there is a ten year lease left on that. The federal government has only ten years left – the State does – may grant them some more time – I don’t know – or they may take it back – so if they take it back it’s gonna be public land. There is also another range that I don’t know if anybody really knows about it – it’s up at Volcano. At the National Park there’s a range up there that’s for law enforcement and certain people and I would like to explore that a little bit and see if that’s a possibility to do another range up there as well, so... If you have any questions for me I’d try to answer. RH: We met with the past commander at PTA and his Sgt. Major. We met with a previous commander prior to him about the issue of the public using the PTA facility – some of the facilities – you touched on a couple of things about when the public goes there, there are some rather strict rules on how to get but you didn’t mention is you have to register every single firearm you bring on the base. DP: That’s good... RH: So you need to send in advance a long with your background check you have to submit a list with the state registration slip to PTA so they can put your firearms on their registration. The problem with all this – the problem with PTA is you are totally at the mercy of their schedule... DP: Right. 26 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 RH: You cannot forecast when you’re gonna go up there. You’re at the mercy of what is going on at the facility at that time, which is, if you’re a club and you schedule activities that does not work. Shotgun facilities are scheduled like a year in advance – if you’re gonna bring people in to use your facility and put on a whatever it – a high power rifle or a shotgun skeet trap, sporting plate. These are all scheduled years in advance so it doesn’t work if you don’t have control over the schedule. Now there was a plus – if you use the existing facilities you have to go in through the main gate and comply with all the stuff that some of the things you mentioned. We did look at – the Sgt. Major took us down to a location about the 50 mile mark on Saddle Road that he claimed was not useful to the Army and could maybe be a site to build a facility but there’s nothing there now, OK? So when you start talking about building something now – Jim just gave you a pitch on what we did over a 15 year period. There’s a million dollars sunk into this Puuanahulu concept – a million – and we haven’t even touched a scrap of dirt yet, OK? So think about it. It’s not an easy thing to do. DP: That is true. Some of the things he mentioned is true. As I understand it, though, there are four or five months of down time – where nobody’s using the range so, um, it’s, what I’d like to do is if we can approach them and try to create a very similar type gun club – it’s called – call it rod & gun club just like we had at Schofield and follow the same rules – I mean, not trying to reinvent the wheel here – we just want to be able to have a place that we can go and shoot, ah, it would most likely be on weekends and, ah, like you said, it would have to go through the gate, which to me is not that big of a deal – as long as all your paperwork is done and cleared it shouldn’t be a problem – it’s only if you don’t want to do a background check or your cars aren’t registered and so on and so forth – that may be a problem. If your weapons are registered – again it shouldn’t be a problem so I’m not seeing that much of a big issue. I just think it’s an alternative, um, not, I think this range that they want to do is treat – I wish we could do something like that but in the meantime there is that possibility that was can, you know, sit down, talk to them and possibly use this range cause their ranges if they’re not being used for four or five months they’re some of the best ranges in the Islands, I mean, I don’t know if you guys have been up there or not but the ranges are really, really good and you can shoot 1,000 yards if you had to. You can go out and get yourself a really good high powered rifle if you want to site in – you can do that – not any other place on the Island can you do that. That’s my thoughts. JO: Yeah. I think... TN: I just need the person’s name and his contact number. DP: My name is Daniel Peddie and it’s Peddie – my wife does work for the County so I got nothing to hide – she works at the legal department but I can give you my email if you want – will be Daniel.hawaii@yahoo.com. 27 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 JO: Yeah, Daniel, I think your presentation it gives an option for some people... ....and it is something that I know there are several people here that would probably take advantage of it. It’s not necessarily a solution for the whole general public... but I am an all the above kind of guy. DP Right. MC: Mark Crivello – 3C Goat Grazing – question with this PTA stuff like that – cause, um, I’m all for gun range and practicing shooting – is there – I know there’s rules and regulatiosn – what would be like the age bracket – like are children allowed cause... DP: That is something that I don’t know – I - like I said – I just had an hour meeting with the Public Affairs Officer. I told him what I wanted to do – I explained to him before I went up there that I wanted to have a meeting – had a meeting – I gave him my pitch – he thought it was a great idea – he thought it would be good for the public – but he also said that the commander wants to do more public things... MC: Right. DP: So he thinks it’s a good idea – but as far as myself – I don’t want to do the thing by myself – I want other people to help me put together a rod & gun club – if that’s what it takes – we can use the same sample that they have over at Schofield and over at Schofield they had to be 18 – they could be 16 with a parent – but that was the rules over there because it’s a federal installation there are certain rules regarding that. MC: Right, right, and, um, that’s where I would see a little – that slight problem is just due to the age – I’d really like the whole public aspect where you can take your five year-old daughter or son and have an instructor there to show them gun safety – you know what I mean – it’s not just one shooting range – you’re showing your kids safety on guns cause, of course, it’s always the human behind the gun that is the dangerous one – not the gun... So I had the question – what would be like the range cause I would like to see young kids able to go to the facilities and instructors and parents teaching them the safeties and the right ways to use the guns. DP: I agree with that – my only thing is we got to sit down with them and try to see if that’s gonna even work for them. After we get them to possibly agree with what we’re trying to do then we can say look, well what would the ages be? And if the commanders says the age is gonna be this – then that’s fine. I mean, we would have to just abide by whatever he is gonna tell usl. So I’m 28 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 not opposing – I believe in having kids there and letting them learn early to properly use a weapon – I fully agree with that... MC: Yes... DP: My brother has 200 acres on the mainland and his kids been out there since they were five years old – nothing wrong with that. Do it correctly, do it early. But I would not be able to make those rules – that would be up to the commanding officer of PTA. MC: Right and that’s why I asked that cause I know how difficult it is to get into these facilities and not like a little kid can go get a background check, yeah? Cannot just go to the office and get a TWIC card on that but I really love the idea of what you guys are promoting with these gun ranges – keep up the great effort you guys – that’s the only question I had was on the ages. Thank you. NP: We’d like to keep all the options open and working and keep negotiating but, um, the idea is a public user-friendly, multi-purpose shooting range – that’s the idea – and Puuanahulu looks to me like the best case scenario for that. JO: Well, it’s the best we’ve been able to identify and it’s not from want of looking and when I say we’ve been looking at ranges, I think the earliest ones we evaluated were in 1990 – I’ve actually been looking since 1975... NP: I can’t believe the amount of work that’s gone into it... I just can’t believe – with volunteers doing this amount of work... ....it’s just phenomenal. I mean, how impressive. JO: Thank you, I’ll get in touch with you though... Are you going to the NRA dinner? DP: I just found out about it today so I gotta find out my schedule, so, I’d like consider it, though... NP: Thank you so much. I don’t think a leaf has been left unturned. Really great job. All right, so under Old Business, um, just a short report on the legislative agenda, um, that we’re working on. OLD BUSINESS: 29 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 a. Legislative Agenda Discussion NP: ....there’s mainly two bills – one Ryan Kohatsu is behind strongly and that is requiring the DLNR to complete the Habitat Conservation Plan – the HCP for Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa – so we’ve been meeting with legislators, um, so, and then the other one was legislation instructing the DLNR to reassess current overall facts and statistics on mamane recovery and persistent palila decline – we would like the truth to come out from under the rug in that – so it’s something that we feel legislation – what is it for? You know? To update mandates based on falicies, how ‘bout? It seems worthy to me... And, then, also we were wanting HCR 22 that’s a resolution to have a little more strength to it – to have some actual effect – because it’s ineffective as a resolution right now even though we fought for it and won it, um, all right, so we met with Richard Onishi and, um, Ike Yoshina and, um, Abraham Antonio and myself – what was your take on that Abraham? AA: He said he would like to help but, ah, like, I think personally is like, um, most legislators and public officials they want to hold another meeting with more public – with the public and see how much more votes they can acquire and then he would say – oh, yeah, then I’ll help you guys. I need more people than just three people at a meeting that’s basically what... NP: He wouldn’t commit to help us... He did give us some clues – he said, um, it’s, we have to have such perfect strategy with the legislative session with our bills but he didn’t tell us what that was, so... So that was a little discouraging, um, but then we met with Kai Kahele, um, Senator Kai Kahele’s staff with the bills we’d like to push and that was with Ryan Kohatsu and Stanley Mendes was there and myself and that was really a lot more encouraging and promising. Do you have anything to say about that Stanley – your take on that? SM: He was saying that he was going to get back to the senator and other representatives to write the bill for us and proposing for the legislators Sounded well – whether he can get it done we’ll see... NP: He said to talk to a few more legislators and then get back to them because they don’t want to step on each other’s toes or something to that effect but, um, it was very promising and the staff we met with for Kai Kahele was actually his bill writer – so, ah, we got to talk to the actual person who’d be writing it up. So that was really promising and then, ah, we have a meeting st coming up with Lorraine Inouye – November 21 at 9:30 and as Richard – would you like to share about that Richard? She’s actually could be another ace in the hole. 30 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 RH: I gave you a copy of an email I got today. I wrote a piece on the current situation on Mauna Kea access into Hale Pohaku and, um, since Senator Inouye was the only person in the Legislature I have heard take a position on that matter – it’s deafening silence from everybody else – I sent her a copy of that blurb and then she indicated that she had already was working on making arrangements to meet with you guys and with the state GMAC and that that would be on the agenda. NP: That’s Starbucks and Kilauea Avenue if anyone wants to meet there with us – give us your support. RH: I should mention that Senator Inouye is the Chairperson for the Senate Transportation Committee... NP: Right. And I just want to thank Ryan Kohatsu, again, for meeting with us with Kai Kahele’s staff because I think our influence there was a lot to do with that he was there as a State GMAC representative, so, um, hopefully, we’ll get the ball rolling. All right... I just want to go over a really quick thing for the – our committees. I’d really like to get our committees up and working and, ah, so... To get everybody functioning well and going forward to have a legislative committee and I had sent these out – I was hoping to get hard copies but I don’t know what happened, um, anyway, I was hoping to have volunteers for committees and, um, I’m not sure if I want to get too much into this tonight because there’s some other issues. I think I’ll just put this on the shelf, ah, right now, um, because we’re running out of time and I wanted to be sure we had time for the New Business. NEW BUSINESS: a. Discussions on Bird Hunting Season and Access Issues for Pu’uhuluhulu hunting check-in station and Hale Pohaku Unit A NP: ...so that is a discussion on bird hunting season and active issues for Puuhuluhulu hunting check-in station and Hale Pohaku Unit A, um, so, um, Mark Crivello and I – we went up to the protest site and, um, ah, we talked to the people up there and because, ah, there was a misconception that they were the ones that will be prohibiting public access up into the Mauna Kea area – but, in fact, they’re very supportive of hunters and, um, and game and they said they would never stop public access there and so, um, they walked me up the road a little bit and it was a DOCARE road block so in fact, who’s blocking access to Mauna Kea at this time is DOCARE – the DLNR enforcement agency there. So we got to that truth and then, so, um, letters have been written about it and I wrote one to Bob Masuda about it and he said he – so the suggestion was that the road block – just move it up six miles – just move it up more toward the visitors’ center – there’s nothing in-between – the public is no threat to the TMT site – why can’t they just move the road 31 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 block up so the hunters can go on November 2 on bird hunting season? So I asked a very direct question to Bob Masuda – Deputy Chair of DLNR but instead of answering me he said I have appointed people for you to negotiate with or talk to – those are the people you talk to. So in other words he’s I’m not talking to you. I’m just saying... But, so, apparently that the two Wildlife Biologists – Kanalu Sproat and Ian Cole – and they don’t seem to know much of anything and, um, so the only answers I got for the hunters for November 2 bird hunting season is that they either can go into Kilohana and go clear around the world to get to the hunting site or they can go to Puu Mali on Waimea and hit Mana Road and spend the day getting there that way and then if they’re stuck in the dark you can’t camp – sorry – it’s prohibited. I’m sorry – go ahead Richard... RH: \[Unclear – not speaking in mic\] DLNR. NP: And they couldn’t make it tonight. I did call and ask them to come tonight and they said that they weren’t able to make it. So, there you go... RH: I wouldn’t take that for an answer. ?: \[Not speaking in mic\] NP: We’ve been working on it for a month at least. RH: The answer we’re getting about – well there’s no – does everybody understand it’s the state that’s blocking access to the mountain. They’re essentially cut off access to the East side of the mountain – the whole east side of the mountain – to suggest that we could just go in at Kilohana on the west side – drive 35 miles over a road that may or may not be washed out – turn around when we get to Hale Pohaku and hope you get out before night leaves no time to do anything. It’s an all day travel going in from Kilohana over to Hale Pohaku and back at best – all day. So that’s just BS. These people – I don’t think they’ve ever been on the road. NP: Kanalu Sproat did say they will have a new map so that you can find your way. RH: The notice for the hunting season – some garbage in there said you could get a nice map at DLNR – your friendly DLNR office – well, I went down to our friendly DLNR office and asked for one of those nice maps – you know what they handed me? The same damn thing that’s in the hunting rules – those little blobs that say this is a hunting area – good grief. NP: Anyway, he said there’ll be a mailbox check in at Puu Mali and that’s all bad news for the hunters – I guess this is pretty much half the area of hunting, um, only thing we can say is just keep helping us petition the DLNR – we’ve been 32 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 doing our best and, ah, getting nowhere – we’re just getting shut down and, um, denied any explanation of whatsoever of why they can’t move the roadblock up just six miles – it’s so unreasonable that they can’t even give us an inch of cooperation or so, um, it’s very frustrating... TN: Did we write a letter or correspondence to DLNR with the approval of the Mayor to ask for hunting access? Have we taken that route? NP: I do correspond with the Mayor but don’t get much correspondence back so and time was of an essence on this particular – so I wrote a letter of inquiry without going through that process as... TN: Could you send a letter – could you send a correspondence? Could you send a letter to the Mayor to request for access? Because if he’s working for the Governor to gain access and his 80 page plan – there should be something about hunting up in that area. NP: The Mayor explained that he doesn’t have power with the state. MC: Mark Crivello 3C Goat Grazing – everybody know here that, um, everybody’s been working really hard trying to get the access up to the mountain so it’s an easy way in easy way out for the hunters and it’s the right way for the hunters to go and been trying very hard. I’m gonna say this one straight up – shame on DLNR because what I keep on hearing – they’re blaming the public – they’re not taking responsibility for doing the shut down – they’re making everybody else look bad and go hide behind closed doors. What, um, what I would think would be a good suggestion is like how Nani mentioned this – everybody – all the hunters form together and it’s about DLNR – I think they should actually go to the governor because everybody’s just – it’s this person that person – DLNR doesn’t even belong at the post they’re at – they belong at the 9,000 foot elevation and if they’re at that specific spot they’re supposed to be at – the hunters all can have an easy access going in and out. MC: So it’s no sense fighting with the DLNR because they will just tell you oh it’s the kupuna – it’s not the kupuna – it’s them just not taking responsibility and to me it has to – it should actually go up to the governor – the governor’s position already cause the governor has the last say of that. SM: I was told today that the governor is the one shutting it down... MC: Yes... SM: Not DLNR... He get the – DLNR get their marching orders from Ige and Ige is the one shutting ‘em down. 33 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 MC: Correct. RH: I wrote a letter – these are not emails – I write and put ‘em in the mail – I put a stamp on ‘em – I have sent letters to the governor – to all of the area legislators and to DLNR. Would you like to hear the letter I got back in response to the copy I sent to Governor Ige? It came from Suzanne Case who is the Chairperson of DLNR. Thank you for your letter of September 23. We acknowledge that due to the Mauna Kea TMT protestors blocking the road inconvenience has resulted to all including hunters wishing to use Mauna Kea Access Road. Nonetheless, all Hawaii Island hunting areas remain open during their regular hunting season per HRS 13-122. While Mauna Kea Access Road itself is closed because there are people protesting in the roads – other roads used to access hunting areas remain open. Which ones? DOFAW will provide an alternate check station at Taka’s Cabin next to the Gil Kahele Recreation Area – hunters will be able to check in at the Kauhane Check Station above Hilo. Puu Mali will also be open for the public to access Unit A from Mana Road from Waimea. Suzanne Case. This is just – this is nuts. MC: I gotta say, it’s very shameful on the governor like that cause they keep on passing the buck and when you go up there the road is wide open and all the protestors or protectors – lost my terminology on that one, um, they’re all for the hunters. A hunter person for the hunters and have no problems with the hunters going up there to do their gathering. So, um, this is just a little input I wanted to... Thanks... NP: That letter from Suzanne Case sounds like they want us to hate the protestors so... Or they’re called the Mauna Kea protectors more respectably. TN: Can you draft a letter to the Governor asking for the access so we have in our records their response? NP: Yes, We will keep trying. I think that they’re just waiting it out is what they’re doing. TN: No. I’m asking for a correspondence to be drafted – to get approval from the Mayor to be sent to the Governor. NP: OK. We’ll work on that... 34 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 COMMITTEE REPORTS: NP: Thank you, Teresa, we’ll work on that – that’s a good idea, Thank you. Wow. So that’s where it stands. We’re just about out of time. I just wanted to quickly Commissioners report by district – so the, the – I’m sorry – Committee Reports – we forgot Committee Reports – I’m skipping ahead too quickly. Ah, Committee Reports – Teresa you wanted to quickly explain the Coastal Management – we got the copies here but I guess you didn’t get any copies over there. TN: Can we save it for our next meeting. NP: OK. Let’s shelf that. TN: I have another project that was just asked of me to do a bird hunting, ungulate hunting, fishing, and invasive Nile Tilapia fishing at Wailoa State Park tournament for next year and so I’ll be drafting a template of this proposal so that everyone in the Commission can be a part of this. This my short report. Thank you. NP: Thank you. I just wanted to read really quick Roberts Rules of Order for Committees, um, so we’re doing the Committee Reports right now but, ah, and we adopted Roberts’ Rules of Order so, ah, it’s one or more persons elected or appointed to consider, study, investigate or take action on assigned matters. So Teresa is the Traditional, Customary Practices and Coastal Issues and so she’s – I appreciate her activities there. And so we have the Government Relationships Legislative Committee and so right now I’m thinking it’s Grayson and Stanley and Abraham that are on the Legislative Committee? I’m sorry – Grayson are you there? GH: Yes, I am. NP: Thank you. So does that sound good for the three of you to be on that committee and there’s, yeah, Teresa’s committee – it would be nice if somebody else was on there – the Shooting Range Working Group – so that’s a tight committee – thank you so much Jim – and then GMAC public hunting lands following the Game Management Plan and Public Hunting Lands following the Game Management Plan. Ah, so I’d still like all of you to think of who would like to be on that committee and then the State GMAC Communications and Report and I’m hoping George would consider that but he’s busy with school work. GD: Yes, I would... I wouldn’t be opposed... NP: Oh, awesome... 35 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – October 29, 2019 COMMISIONERS’ REPORTS BY DISTRICT: NP: If there’s any other committee reports, um, at this time? All right. So our Commissioners’ Report by district? Got to say it, got to ask it. All right then, our next meeting is December 10. ADJOURNMENT: Next meeting December 10, 2019 NP: James O’Keefe moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:29pm. Seconded by George Donev. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Respectfully submitted by: Donna Urban-Higuchi Secretary ATTEST: Nani Pogline, Chairperson 36