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Mr. Heintz: Your first deputy. <br /> Mr. Roth: And we've done that before for other cases. <br /> Mr. Heintz: Okay. <br /> Mr. Roth: The reason I didn't do it in the very beginning...because this was <br /> such a public matter that...I wanted to be...as fair as possible. I <br /> guess is a...and that's why we did it. <br /> Mr. Heintz: I mean if we assumed and hypothetically...I'll just go on record <br /> that I believe that there is no conflict of interest. And to determine <br /> that there is an appearance of a conflict of interest...involves us <br /> invoking this reasonable man standard or something like that or <br /> reasonable person standard. This traditionally the way it's done. <br /> Then the question becomes...that's why I ask the questions I did <br /> about the...about your wife's employment...about your son's <br /> employment and NexTech. That there a reasonable person would <br /> determine that...that there is no conflict and there's no appearance <br /> of conflict. But the reasonable man or the reasonable person <br /> standard is somewhat notorious because when one gets involved in <br /> the discussion of it...who is the reasonable person? Is it the person <br /> in the back of the Clapham omnibus? Or is it the person on the <br /> street of Downtown Hilo? Or is it the person from Cincinnati? I <br /> mean, I'm trying to think...Ohio is pretty innocuous. But the idea <br /> here is... But the problem with this is ethics is not just a matter of <br /> public opinion. It's not a public opinion contest. The question is <br /> what principle...what reason does a person have. The idea here is <br /> with a reasonable man or person standard is to come up with <br /> something subjective not objective. And you're always going to <br /> have, in the State of Hawaii a 20% of the population for <br /> sure...maybe more...that's going to find an appearance of a <br /> conflict. <br /> Mr. Roth: And just, you know, I guess maybe I should caution in... I don't <br /> know if..anybody else would want to comment on this. I think <br /> the parameters or the decisions that you have are...kind of limited <br /> to really the rules that you have in front of you as far as you know <br /> the conflict in everything too. <br /> Mr. Robinson: You know and if I could, Larry. <br /> Mr. Heintz: Yeah. <br /> 21 <br />