HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-02-20 Leeward Exh D (AMEND REZ 2004-024 & AMEND REZ 2004-025) LEEWARD PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
FEBRUARY 20, 2020
A regularly advertised hearing on the applications of SUFFOLK INVESTMENT LLC
(AMEND REZ 2004-000024) and PUAA DEVELOPMENT LLC (AMEND REZ
2004-000025) was called to order at 10:30 a.m. in the West Hawaii Civic Center, Community
Center, Building G, 74-5044 Ane Keohokalole Highway, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii, with
Chairperson Nancy Carr Smith presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Nancy Carr Smith, Perry Kealoha, Max Newberg,
Keith F. Unger, Mark Van Pernis and Michael Vitousek
ABSENT AND EXCUSED: Faith "Faye" Yates
ALSO PRESENT: Malia Hall, Esq. (Counsel for the Commission), Michael Yee (Planning
Director), Jeff Darrow (Planning Program Manager), Christian Kay (Planner), Alex Roy
(Planner), Jessica Andrews (Planner) and Noriko Sauer (Commission Secretary)
And approximately 15 people from the public in attendance.
APPLICANT: SUFFOLK INVESTMENT LLC (AMEND REZ 2004-000024)
Application to amend Condition B (Time to Pay Water Deposit), Condition C (Time to Complete
Construction), Amend Condition D (Delete Rental Housing Restriction), Amend Condition E
(Delete Requirement for Supplemental TIAR), Amend Condition F (Roadway Improvements),
Amend Condition H (Location of Spine Road within Project Site), Amend Condition I (Kuakini
Highway Improvements), Amend Condition U (Requirement of a 5-acre School Site &
Improvements), Amend Condition V (Fair Share), Amend Condition X (Affordable Housing
Requirement& Change Housing Program Approving Authority), and Amend Condition Z
(Administrative Time Extension) of Ordinance No. 05-113. Ordinance No. 05-113 reclassified
the 14.872-acre property from Agricultural-5 acres (A-5a)to Multiple-Family Residential-2,500
square foot(RM-2.5) in 2005. The subject property is located west(makai) of Queen
Ka`ahumanu Highway and east(mauka) of Kuakini Highway and the Kahakai Estates
Subdivision, approximately 2,200 feet north of the Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway—Kuakini
Highway intersection, Puapuaaiki 1st, North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 7-5-017:019.
APPLICANT: PUAA DEVELOPMENT LLC (AMEND REZ 2004-000025)
Application to amend Condition B (Time to Pay Water Deposit), Condition C (Time to Complete
Construction), Condition E (Delete Requirement for Supplemental Traffic Study), Condition F
(Roadway Improvements), Condition H (Location of Spine Road), Condition I (Kuakini Highway
Improvements), Condition V (Requirement for a 5-Acre School Site and Improvements), Condition
W (Fair Share Contribution), Condition Y (Affordable Housing Timing), Condition Z (Housing),
and Condition BB (Administrative Time Extension) of Ordinance No. 05-115. Ordinance No.
05-115 reclassified the 14.973-acre property from Agricultural-5 acres (A-5a) to Neighborhood
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Commercial-20,000 square feet(CN-20) in 2005. The subject property is located west(makai) of
Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway and the Pualani Estates Subdivision, and about 1,400 feet north of the
Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway—Kuakini Highway intersection, Puapuaaiki 1st and Puapuaanui 1st
North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 7-5-017:001.
CARR SMITH: Okay, we are going to hear the next two items together, and we'll deal with
them separately.
Agenda Item No. 4, Applicant is Suffolk Investment, LLC. This is AMEND REZ 2004-000024:
Application to amend Condition B, which is the Time to Pay Water Deposit; Condition C is
Time to Complete Construction; amend Condition D, Delete Rental Housing Restriction; amend
Condition E to delete Requirement for Supplemental TIAR; amend Condition F, Roadway
Improvements; amend Condition H, Location of Spine Road within Project Site; amend
Condition I, Kuakini Highway Improvements; amend Condition U, Requirement of a 5-acre
School Site and Improvements; amend Condition V, Fair Share; amend Condition X, Affordable
Housing Requirement and Change Housing Program Approving Authority; and, amend
Condition Z, Administrative Time Extension, of Ordinance No. 05-113. Ordinance No. 05-113
reclassified the 14.872-acre property from Agricultural-5 acres to Multiple-Family Residential-
2,500 square feet. That occurred in 2005. The subject property is located west of Queen
Ka`ahumanu Highway and east of Kuakini Highway and the Kahakai Estates Subdivision,
approximately 2,200 feet north of the Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway—Kuakini Highway
intersection, Puapuaaiki 1st, North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 7-5-017:019.
And the next agenda item is Applicant Puaa Development LLC, AMEND REZ 2004-000025.
This is to, application to amend Condition B, Time to Pay Water Deposit; Condition C, Time to
Complete Construction; Condition E, Delete Requirement for Supplemental Traffic Study;
Condition F, Roadway Improvements; Condition H, Location of Spine Road; Condition I,
Kuakini Highway Improvements; Condition V, Requirement for a 5-Acre School Site and
Improvements; Condition W, Fair Share Contribution; Condition Y, Affordable Housing Timing;
Condition Z, Housing, and, Condition BB, Administrative Time Extension, of Ordinance
No. 05-115. Ordinance No. 05-115 reclassified the 14.973-acre property from Agricultural-
5 acres to Neighborhood Commercial-20,000 square feet in 2005. The subject property is
located west of Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway and the Pualani Estates Subdivision, and about
1,400 feet north of the Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway—Kuakini Highway intersection,
Puapuaaiki 1, or 1st rather, and Puapuaanui 1st, North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 7-5-017:001.
It's a mouthful.
KAY: Great job.
CARR SMITH: Christian, go ahead, please.
KAY: All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. If I can turn your attention to the screen. It's a little
bit unusual that we are holding these presentations for two agenda items as one, but as they are
adjacent properties and were essentially approved as part of the same project, we are going to run
them that way.
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So pardon me the subject properties are situated in the North Kona District of Hawaii Island.
For reference, we've got Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway running generally north-south through
the slide, and Kuakini Highway running below the subject properties here, makai of the subject
properties, north-south as well. For further reference, we've got Pualani Estates Subdivision
here, mauka of the subject properties, as well as Kahakai Estates Subdivision makai.
The existing entitlements in proposed projects for each are as follows:
Suffolk Investment, LLC that was approved under Ordinance No. 05-113 approved on August 5,
2005, to change the zoning from Agricultural-5 acres to Multiple-Family Residential-2.5 for
14.872 acres. The applicant originally proposed a 250-unit market rental housing development, a
300-stall parking lot and a one-plus acre park. The applicant is currently proposing to reduce the
number of rental units to 226 and intends to develop open space and a passive recreation area on
the property.
For the parcel mauka of the Suffolk parcel, Ordinance No. 05-115 was approved on August 5,
2005, to change the zoning from Agricultural-5 acres to Neighborhood Commercial for 14.973
acres. The applicant initially proposed to develop a neighborhood commercial shopping center,
including a 93,600-square foot complex that would house varied commercial uses, such as
financial institutions and office spaces. Also proposed was a 500-plus parking stall parking lot,
with appropriate accessibility requirements. The applicant has currently downsized the project
by reducing the size of the commercial space from 93,600 square feet to 72,600 square feet.
Also included in the current proposal is the inclusion of a transit hub in the form of a public bus
transfer station, as well as the addition of 100 multiple-family residential units.
So here are the applicant's requests. I'll just leave them up on the screen here. The Chair
already kind of mentioned what they were. I need to apologize; we had two planners working on
different applications, so the language of the conditions as they were in your reports are
somewhat different. In reality, most of the conditions that are being requested to change are the
same, with the exception of, in the case of Suffolk Investment, LLC, is Condition D deleting the
rental housing restriction, which essentially said rental housing would be provided for 20 years,
and then for Puaa Investment's, it was Condition Y, which deleted the condition relating to a
housing requirement tied to commercial construction, essentially saying that a certain portion of
housing would need to be completed prior to receiving occupancy for any of the commercial
portion. With the exception of those, the other conditions that are being requested to amend are
essentially the same.
The applicants' reasons for the requests are, according to the applicant, one of the reasons for not
completing the projects within a timely manner is that due to the global economic meltdown that
occurred over a decade ago, securing the required financing to initiate and complete the project
as represented was too difficult to obtain, and thus they decided to prioritize exploring alternative
uses of the properties and exploring sources for construction financing. The applicant believes
that the current economic outlook is amenable, however time is still needed for the applicant to,
applicants to address the various conditions of approval, to incorporate and finalize plans, and to
secure the required financing. According to the applicants, they have worked on compliance for
several conditions, including the conveyance of a five-acre school site for a future school as
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required by the ordinances, but ultimately did not get approved, as they were tied to
infrastructure requirements that never took place. Lastly, although there has been no physical
construction that's occurred on the properties, the applicant states that they've expended a
considerable amount of soft funds, and these include nearly a million dollar spent for more
detailed land use planning in the preparation of infrastructure construction plans for the projects.
The zoning for the subject properties are as follows: For the Puaa Development parcel, it's a
Neighborhood Commercial; and for the Suffolk parcel, it's Multi-Family Residential. Again, for
reference, we've got Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway running north-south through the slide and
Kuakini running north-south through the slide makai of the subject properties. Other zoning in
the area is consistent with Residential zoning, some additional Multiple-Family Residential here
to the north, the Kahakai Estates Subdivision is Single-Family Residential, and then mauka
we've got the Pualani Estates Subdivision, also Single-Family Residential, with some
Commercial as well in the area. The other adjacent properties makai are agriculturally zoned as
well.
The State Land Use Boundary designations for the subject parcels are Urban. In conjunction
with the Change of Zones ordinances that were granted in 2005, the applicants secured State
Land Use Boundary amendments for each of the subject parcels, as each of the parcels was under
15 acres. So the other State Land Use designations in the area are Urban to be consistent with
the residential zoning, and then, that's in red, and then Agricultural in green surrounding the
area.
The General Plan Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide Map designation for the majority of the
subject properties is Urban Expansion in the thatched design. There is a portion of the Puaa
Development parcel that is within Low Density Urban. Medium Density Urban is here to the
north, consistent with the Multiple-Family Residential zoning designation.
The Kona Community Development Plan designates this area within the Kona Urban Area,
which is indicated by this red line surrounding the properties, as well as the Kahului-Puapua`a
Village Neighborhood Transit-Oriented Development circle is encompassing the area for both of
the subject properties.
Here is an aerial photograph of the subject properties. Again, Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway
running generally north-south through the slide, Kuakini Highway here, and you can see the
other residential subdivisions that I mentioned previously. The property is primarily vacant at
this point. There have been some improvements, including a paved roadway that comes from
Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway and runs the length of the properties down to Kuakini Highway
that's consistent with a sewer easement as required by a subdivision, I believe.
Here is the applicant's site plan. Again, this was shown, submitted to us as the Pualani Makai
Master Planned Community and encompasses both properties, with the Puaa Development
property here to the north—you can see the proposed area of the commercial activity, as well as
some multiple-family residential designation, pardon me, developments—and then further
makai, you see the 226-unit multiple-family residential development being proposed for the
Suffolk property. It's showing a proposal for two accesses from the highway, one here to the
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west and then one here to the east, and this is going to be a spine road that connects Kuakini to
Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway. Also showing here are some archaeological sites that were
identified in an archaeological inventory survey approved for the subject development.
Here are some site photos. Such a large land area, difficult to get anything really of worth to
take a photo of, these are just photos from Kuakini Highway looking toward Kailua-Kona, and
here on the top right is a view of the intersection at the Kahakai Estates Subdivision. Bottom left
is a view of Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway looking toward Kailua-Kona. This is at Puapua`anui
Street with the subject property on the right, and here is a view looking the other direction with
the subject property on the left hand side.
The Planning Director is recommending an unfavorable recommendation be forwarded to the
Hawaii County Council for both ordinances for the following reasons: 1) The proposed requests
do not conform with the goals, objectives, and actions of the Kona Community Development
Plan; 2) The proposed request does not conform to the goals, policies, and courses of action for
the Land Use—Commercial Development& Land Use—Multiple-Family elements of the General
Plan; 3) Previous segmentation of this area in securing planning entitlements was inconsistent
with State Law; and, finally, the proposed request will not result in a more appropriate land use
pattern that will further the public necessity and convenience and the general welfare. I'll go
into a little bit more detail for each of these reasons.
The first is non-conformance with the Kona Community Development Plan. The Kona
Community Development Plan was adopted in 2008, about three years after the zoning for the
subject properties was approved. As you know, when we look at amendments to ordinances or
permits, we have to look at the existing plans of the time, so whereas prior, when they got their
zoning, the CDP wasn't in place, it was now, so we looked at that in analyzing the request. The
subject properties are situated within the middle of the Kahului-Puapua`a Village TOD, which,
according to the Plan, are general locations for these areas but are then secured by Project
District. Within the Kona Urban Area, compact, walkable, mixed-use village development is
preferred in the TOD. This is something the Plan calls for that indicates that, that indicates an
actual development preference for those transit-oriented developments that have a more dense
walkable commercial core surrounded by a secondary more residential area and then a greenbelt
area surrounding that. The CDP also identified a mechanism to achieve this preferred
development pattern in the TOD, as it allows, as the Project District allows flexibility in uses and
densities for, and all developed under a master plan. So, basically, under the existing single
district zoning, Multiple-Family and Neighborhood Commercial, because of use requirements
and density requirements and the like under those existing zonings, the preferred development
pattern cannot be achieved through the existing single-district zoning. The applicant has
suggested conditions of approval that could further the TOD concept, but the Director is not
inclined to create a new development process through separate zoning ordinances in the area but
prefers to use the existing community-vetted master planning process recommended in the CDP.
The applicant has represented that a minimum 50-acre land area that's required for Project
District cannot be met because each of these properties are under 15 acres. However, we believe
they can be met by consolidating the surrounding properties that are under joined ownership or
management, which is about 61 acres in the area. This is Planning Department Exhibit No. 4 just
showing the ownership of the parcels in the area; this is a subdivision map that was, the
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subdivision was granted in 2004 that created five lots, four of which were just under 14[sic]
acres and then about a two-acre road lot here by Queen Ka`ahumanu Highway. Each of these
properties, with the exception of the Suffolk property, is owned by Puaa Development. The
Suffolk Investment property, according to DCCA records,their only managing member is Puaa
Development, so there is a connection there. So we believe there will be a possibility of going
through the Project District with sufficient land area.
The proposed request does not conform to the goals, policies, and courses of action of the Land
Use—Commercial Development& Land Use—Multiple-Family elements of the General Plan. The
proposed time extension and amendments do not comply with the General Plan policies around
controls force curbing speculation. The first one is for the Land Use—Commercial Development
section that states, "Controls to prevent speculative practices on commercially zoned lands may
be established." And under the Land Use—Multiple-Family section, it states, "To assure the use
of multiple residential zoned areas and to curb speculation and resale of undeveloped lots only,
the County may impose incremental and conditional zoning, which shall be based on
performance requirements." So for both ordinances, construction was supposed to have been
completed within five years by 2010, if, and 2015, if an administrative time extension has been
requested. As we were doing our research on this, we were unable to find evidence of
administrative time extension for completion of construction. The applicant informed, the
applicants' representative informed me this morning that there were in fact those admin time
extensions granted, and, up to August of 2015, and if he has that information, he can share with
you. Even so, the applicants waited over four years to attempt to revive their stale ordinances
and is currently doing so now to either sell the property or secure a development partner. The
applicant is requesting a time extension to commence construction within ten years and complete
within 20, so the actual request is for commencing construction within five and to complete
within ten; however, they are also asking for the addition of the administrative time extension
condition to be allowed, which would essentially give them, if granted, ten years to start, 20
years to finish. The applicants have not demonstrated to the Director's satisfaction that they
have a plan to complete construction in their requested time frames, nor have they demonstrated
any recent efforts to comply with numerous conditions of approval. We met with the applicants'
representative early on in the process and let them know that we were leaning toward an
unfavorable recommendation and asked them to provide us with a detailed construction schedule
outlining how they could meet the requirements of the ordinances or what they are proposing
within the time frames designated. What they provided us unfortunately was just the name of a
possible development partner from the mainland. So based on that information, we don't
believe they have demonstrated that they can get this done. Secondly, within the last 15 years,
the applicant has had an opportunity to comply with other conditions of approval, other studies,
archaeological, sewer studies and other types of, water improvements and the like, and has not
done so.
Previous segmentation of this area in securing planning entitlements is inconsistent with State
Law. As we mentioned before, Subdivision 7814 was approved in 2004 to create a five-lot
subdivision, in which four or the lots resulted in an area just under 15 acres in size. In 2005,
after the applicants bought the properties, both Puaa Development and Suffolk Investment
applied for and received approval for State Land Use Boundary amendments from Agricultural
to Urban designation for their respective properties. At the time of processing these applications,
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the applicants represented that they were separate entities and under 15 acres; therefore, they
were processed at the County Council and not the State Land Use Commission. The Land Use
Commission commented that they had strong objections to the manner in which the boundary
amendments were being processed. Under HRS 205-3.1, Amendments to District Boundaries,
they believed that both the Village Center, Puaa, and rental housing project were part of the same
Pualani Makai master planned community, which is consistent with the site plan that they
provided to us today, or for these applications, and that permitting was deliberately
incrementalized to evade the jurisdiction of the Land Use Commission. Although the original
2005 boundary amendments were approved in an incrementalized manner, in order to implement
the TOD concept and Project District zoning recommended by the Kona Community
Development Plan, the applicant will be required to seek a State Land Use Boundary
Amendment from the Land Use Commission from Agricultural to Urban district for the
surrounding properties under joint ownership.
And then, finally, the proposed request will not result in a more appropriate land use pattern that
will further the public necessity and convenience and the general welfare. Based on everything
that we've mentioned prior, the Director feels that approving the requested amendments and
retaining the existing zoning would no longer result in an appropriate land use pattern that will
further the public necessity and convenience and the general welfare. As an alternative, the
Director recommends the applicants pursue a State Land Use Boundary Amendment for the
remaining adjacent properties and submit a Change of Zone to a Project District for the
approximately 60-acre area to establish the Kahului-Puapua`a Village Neighborhood
Transit-Oriented Development as recommended by the Kona CDP.
So, based on all of that,the Director is recommending that we,the Commission forward an
unfavorable recommendation to the County Council for amendments to the rezone ordinance
No. 05-113 and the rezone ordinance 05-115.
Since the information was sent to you, today we received two pieces of information, three pieces
of information from the applicants' representative. We handed those out to you earlier. In the
absence of a favorable recommendation from the Department, the applicants themselves offered
a favorable recommendation for the Commission to consider sending up, should you decide you
want to go with a favorable recommendation. Also, there was a set of plans and other
information that the applicant is desiring to walk you through as part of their presentation.
With that, I'm happy to answer any questions that the Commission may have. Thank you.
CARR SMITH: I have a question. Whose documents are these?
KAY: This was handed to us, again, by the applicants' representative
CARR SMITH: These are the applicants' documents.
KAY: Sidney Fuke. Correct, yeah.
CARR SMITH: Okay. I couldn't tell.
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KAY: Sorry.
CARR SMITH: All right. Mr. Van Pernis, do you have a question?
VAN PERNIS: Yes, sorry, I have several questions, because I'm concerned the County has been
deceived in the diction to what it's already analyzed. This was approved in 2004 originally,
right?
KAY: The application came in 2004, the ordinances were approved in August 2005.
VAN PERNIS: All right, so it has been approximately 15 years that they have not met the
requirements they are now seeking to waive. Is that right?
KAY: That's correct. So, with the grated administrative time extension for the time conditions
around construction and payment of water commitments, they would have had, and other time
conditions, they would have had until 2010, pardon me, 2015, to come in and complete
construction and satisfy those time requirements. They didn't come in to apply for the
amendments until late last year.
VAN PERNIS: And the County has no record of the time extension requests.
KAY: We were unable to find time extension requests to complete construction for the Suffolk
rezone ordinance. There was a time extension request for the school site condition; however,
again, according to the applicant, they have those time extension letters here that they can
provide to you.
VAN PERNIS: Now they are seeking up to another 20 years?
KAY: That's correct. So they are asking for a five-year time extension to commence
construction and then a ten-year from the date of the amended ordinance to complete
construction; however, they are also asking for the standard administrative time extension
condition that would allow them up to an additional five years to start and an additional ten years
to complete.
VAN PERNIS: So they are asking for a total of possible 55 years from the original application
to, without any review or additional conditions imposed.
KAY: In their applications, they recommended several amendments to conditions of approval,
as well as indicated that they would comply with others that they weren't asking for amendments
to. So if the Director had recommended a favorable recommendation, we would have included
conditions of approval; we would have done our analysis of their requests and either agreed with
them or made our own recommendations for conditions of approval based on agency comments,
public testimony and the like. Because we have sent up an unfavorable recommendation, we did
not include any conditions of approval.
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VAN PERNIS: When they originally obtained their approval, they got valuable zoning for this
and the master planned area, and they are now, in exchange for the promises, they are now
asking to waive, right?
KAY: There are a few conditions of approval that they are asking to waive that were based on
representations made back then around affordable housing, timing of housing relative to
commercial development and the like, and have provided their justification for that in their
application.
VAN PERNIS: And, have they offered to give anything back from the valuable rezoning they
obtained in 2004 and 2005?
KAY: Not that we've seen. Most of the conditions have been either asking for cleaning up
conditions that have already been complied with or asking for relief from conditions of approval
that were required them to do something, in addition to what's already on the books in terms of
County requirements.
VAN PERNIS: So they get the valuable upzoning, but there is no, their promises are not kept,
and they are looking to eliminate many of them.
KAY: I will let the applicant address that.
CARR SMITH: Any other questions?
VAN PERNIS: Yes, I have several more. Is Mr. Schuler behind all of this development in the
area, these LLCs and Pualani Makai, generally speaking?
CARR SMITH: Let's let the applicant
VAN PERNIS: Well, I'm asking if the County investigated and tied these applications in with
those of Pualani Makai.
KAY: So, Mr. Schuler is the only managing member that DCCA provided for Puaa
Development, and as we stated before, Puaa Development is the only managing member for
Suffolk Investment, so there does seem to be a connection.
VAN PERNIS: And in regards to the five-acre school lot, has the Planning Department
investigated whether or not Holualoa School, which is in the district, has any space for additional
students?
KAY: It's our understanding that a tentative subdivision approval was granted for a five-acre
school site, but again, according to our background report, because the development of the
school was tied to infrastructure improvements that have not taken place yet,that site was
abandoned essentially, and the school went further makai of the project site.
VAN PERNIS: Where is another school?
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KAY: Across the street, is it about, adjacent to Pualani Estates Subdivision, yeah. And that was
the
CARR SMITH: Yes, we had that case.
KAY: Okay, yeah.
CARR SMITH: Okay, can we move along?
VAN PERNIS: And
CARR SMITH: Or do you have any other topics?
VAN PERNIS: Also, are they still proposing 500 parking stalls to go with their reduced
commercial area?
KAY: That's what the application said, and, again, I can let the applicant kind of address that.
VAN PERNIS: Isn't this area the worst traffic congestion on this side of the island?
KAY: I don't know how to address that. There was a traffic impact analysis report that was
submitted as part of the application that addressed traffic performance in the area, as well as
proposed mitigation based on traffic performance.
VAN PERNIS: Did you check that traffic report?
KAY: It was accepted as part of the application. We have not received any final comments
from Department of Transportation or the Department of Public Works.
VAN PERNIS: But you've received some letters, correct?
KAY: Yes, we've got a comment letter from the Department of Public Works relative to the
TIAR.
VAN PERNIS: And some letters from residents of the area?
KAY: I, we have not seen any letters that I'm aware of around traffic issues, or around anything
actually; we haven't received any written comments.
VAN PERNIS: I thought you just handed some.
KAY: Okay, I'm sorry, to this point—no, I'm sorry, the stuff that came out to you today was for
a different agenda item. The public comment today was for a different agenda item.
VAN PERNIS: And, is there any support for this project from anyone other than the applicant?
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KAY: I don't know the answer to that. We didn't receive any letters in support as well. The
Planning Department, the Director is making a recommendation for unfavorable for the reasons
stated prior.
VAN PERNIS: Thank you.
KAY: Thank you.
CARR SMITH: Questions from other Commissioners? [None.] Okay, very good, thank you.
Applicant, come forward, please. Good morning. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear
or affirm to tell the truth before the Leeward Planning Commission?
REPRESENTATIVES: I do.
CARR SMITH: Thank you. One at a time, can you please state your name and your area of
residence and your role here, please?
FUKE: Sure. Good morning, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. My name is Sidney
Fuke. I'm a planning consultant. My address is in Hilo, Hawaii. I've been retained by the
applicants to assist with the processing of these applications.
COOK: Good morning, I'm Brian Cook. I've lived here in Kona for the last 32 years.
VAN BERGEN: Good morning. Ken Van Bergen, Kailua-Kona, I'm here representing Spring
Capital Group who is looking to acquire an interest in this, in these projects to complete
development. I also have been here for 55 years, I might add.
CARR SMITH: Go ahead.
FUKE: Sure,thank you very much, Madam Chair. In the interest of time, as the staff had
indicated, you know, we are just kind of consolidating both applications in the sense that there's
a lot of similar infrastructure obligations, the land use relationship, there is a symbiotic
relationship. I'd like to kind of like do the presentation more from a chronological perspective to
kind of help put the projects in better light, I guess.
Essentially, you know, who are the developers? Essentially, we had Puaa Development. It's a
Hawaii-based LLC, and then the authorization is Mr. Brian Cook. Mr. Cook has done like a
number of projects, smaller projects here on this island, most notably, the Malulani Gardens, you
know, it's a subdivision, as well as a housing project as well. Suffolk Investment, it's a
Denver-based LLC. The principal on that is James Schuler. Schuler, as some of you may know,
is well-known in the housing industry, Schuler Homes. And in 2002 he kind of collaborated and
basically merged with D.R. Horton, one of the larger home builders here in the State of Hawaii.
Schuler was, you know, D.R. Horton and Schuler, was responsible for a lot of the homes that
were constructed at the Pualani Subdivision, which is situated generally mauka of the subject
properties.
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So back in late 2004 and 2005, Puaa and Suffolk had nothing to do with the creation of the
subdivision. It was already there. It was created by a company called Westpro. And then they
acquired, Puaa acquired the properties. So Puaa came in with this idea, largely Brian's idea, to
create like a shopping complex in that particular area. Suffolk, because of Schuler's interest in
housing, also wanted to do a housing project. So basically, they collaborated. They had like this
architect designer, local architect, his name is Michael Riehm, to kind of like do a, you know, do
a master plan for those two projects. So Puaa's plan way back when, as the staff had indicated,
called for, you know, a shopping complex, a 95,000-square foot shopping complex. He also had
proposed a 100-plus-or-minus-unit affordable housing, not affordable, housing project on this
site.
As far as the access, if I can now direct you to Figure 1, so Figure 1 basically shows what the
original project was for Puaa. You can see the 19,000-square foot subdivision, excuse me, the
village commercial area. There was a gas station, and at the Puapua`anui intersection that was
going to be signalized. And there was going to be like a frontage road eventually leading up to
the south end. At the south end it would be like a right-in-right-out kind of movements. These
two intersections at the State highway have already been approved in terms of access location by
the State Department of Transportation. The roadway configuration, as you can see in the Figure
1, you know, it's exactly as how the land was ultimately subdivided, and that right-of-way is a
60-foot wide right-of-way that would eventually connect Kuakini Highway to the Queen
Ka`ahumanu Highway extension.
Suffolk's plan, as you can see in that Figure 2, was essentially to try to create a 250-unit
affordable rental housing, and this was going to be exclusively a rental housing project in that
they were going to have a small little one-plus-or-minus-acre private passive park area. Of
interest, however, what I wanted to point out also, it's found on Figures 1 and 2, you can see
those areas that's outside of the subject property; these are like the archaeological preserved
areas that are not within the subject area but there was an approved archaeological inventory
survey done, and when Mr. Riehm did the overall master plan, he used that as a development
constrain to identify where these features are, you know, kind of like a no-build zone. But this is
just more like for your information.
Now, back in 2005 the Planning Director did recommend that both of these projects be favorably
considered. And what they did recommend at that time was that these properties already had like
50 affordable housing credit assigned to the site, so the Director's recommendation was saying,
look, you know, housing is important, you are not going to use any of the, any of your existing
credit to address the affordable credit requirements, you know, for this project, and also no
in-lieu fee, and whatever obligation you have for housing, it has to be built on site. So the
applicants, both applicants said, yes, we will comply with that requirement.
So the County Council finally approved both zone change in August of 2005. When the Council
considered their request, they said like, oh, maybe you guys want to have like a five-acre, you
know, you want to set aside an area for school since you guys own the property on the makai
side. And so Mr. Cook at that time said, fine, we will dedicate a five-acre site for a school site.
But what the Council's condition required was that, okay, before it gets officially dedicated to
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any school, you have to go out into the community and you check with the DOE, you check with
the community and you ask them, do you want to have a school over here, and if they come back
and say like yes we want, then fine, you know, let's go ahead and implement that concept. So
we checked with the DOE, and the Department of Education said Kahakai Elementary School is
right down the street, we don't need to have like another school. And in the meantime,
Innovations Charter School approached Brian and said that how about like giving the land to us.
So we went to the Council and the Council, this is in 2006, we went back to the County Council,
and the County Council at that point in time said, fine, Innovations is a suitable tenant, you
know, for this area. So when the Council had approved the zone change condition calling for a
five-acre school site on the makai side of this project,they had also required that the developer
also provide the required infrastructure servicing the site the water, sewer line and roadway
system. And it also required, in addition to that, that you construct up to 600,000 dollars of
improvement on that site. So at that time, this is now, bearing in mind, you know, you are in
2005-2006, so the economy was good, so they said, fine, you know, we'll do that. There was a
land conveyance agreement between the developers and the Innovations School, and that was
considered back in 2006 by the County Council. Well, the conveyance never occurred, as the
staff had indicated, you know, because you had to get the land subdivided and in conjunction
with the land getting subdivided, you have to put in all of this infrastructure, you know, the
60-foot wide right-of-way, the roadway, the utility, so on and so forth, so it was never conveyed.
So in the meantime, Innovations said, fine, you know,they moved up the street.
Then, I think you are back again to the year, I guess September 10, 2008. That's when the Kona
Community Development Plan was adopted. And when the Kona Community Development
Plan was adopted—and I just kind of make reference to Figure 3, and it was shown on the staff's
presentation map—if you look at like where the site is, this is really like the bull's eye,
unmistakable that this is a TOD site. And they even had that small little transit hub identified,
and the roadway alignment that takes you from Kuakini Highway to the Queen Ka`ahumanu
Highway extension, that's exactly as how the land is, you know, was subdivided. So, the
premise of the CDP, they took the existing zoning to heart, and then they created this TOD area,
this transit hub area. We also have to understand that, you know, after Puaa and Suffolk had
acquired the property, you know, in 2006-2007, guess what happened in 2008; we had the
biggest depression, the recessions, since the Great Depression. Nothing could have happened.
You know, like so it affected the demand, it affected the financeability of the project. But, in
spite of all of that, what did these guys do? They continued with a lot of the small what you call
like the soft planning cost; they did—and I pointed out to, like, your Figure 4-they worked with
the State, they got the culvert plans approved, they developed these drainage plans, they did the
interior roadway, if you look at Figure 5. Ifsomebody was asking about where the location of
the school was going to be—if you look at the second page of Page 5, you can see where this
new road was coming down where the project was all in, and that was going to be the location of
the school site. And look at Figure 6, the flood control, you know, they did all of these plans.
They paid like in excess of 1.3 million dollars in real property taxes.
Then I take you, now we are up to like 2010-2011. So in 2011, understandably, you know,
nothing happened. So they asked for a time extension, an administrative time extension, and the
planning director at that time reviewed the General Plan—and if you look at the conditions under
which any time extension, whether it's an administrative or County Council-approved time
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extension, you have to assure that they are in conformance to the General Plan. So when the
time extension was granted in September of 2011, the director at that time said that okay, I'll
grant you the time extension, you know, based on the fact that it's consistent with the General
Plan.
Now like, sure, from 2015, 2016, 2017 they are all getting older. It doesn't make sense to apply
for any time extension, if you don't have someone that's really ready, willing and able to do the
development. So in 2018-2019, on comes Spring Capital. They said that,they raised their hand,
they said like we are willing to do it, but you need to get a time extension for us, because without
the entitlements, we can't do it. Ken here is representing the potential developer, Spring Capital
Group, and if you want, you can ask him questions about like who exactly is Spring Capital
Group.
So I turn you now to Figure 8, which is the current master plan. So after they were approached,
Brian, Suffolk and Puaa were approached by Spring Capital as a potential developer, they went
back to the drawing board, had Michael Riehm kind of like take a look at it, and said how can we
massage what was previously approved and expired, to do a project that generally comports to
what the CDP is saying, a TOD type of concept. So they said one of the first things you had to
do is you had to reduce your commercial area because it's too big; you've got to create more like
a walkable area. So that's why the commercial area was reduced from 21, well, was reduced by
over 20,000 square feet. And they said besides you have to put residential uses close to
commercial area. So if you look at this revised master plan, you'll see the residential activities
immediately makai of where the commercial area is going to go. You also see this kind of road
connection or pedestrian connection between the north end and the south end of the Puaa project.
And if you can find that small little bus transit area, that's also reflected on the plan. So to the
extent, you know, that they could, the developer tried to massage the project, revised the project,
so that it can better address the TOD concept of the CDP. And with this, now they are ready to
apply for a time extension, because we can go before this Planning Commission, we can go
before the County Council, and say, yes, we don't have a bogus developer, we have somebody
real that's ready and willing to step up. So, Figures 9 and 10, basically gives you an illustration
of like what is so-called this pedestrian oriented type of project.
The Director is recommending, as the staff had indicated, that, you know, there's a number of
reasons why the project should be denied. One is that it's a speculative entitlement. You know,
he recommends denial because the request would support speculative entitlement for the purpose
of resale. So from the owner's standpoint, we say, okay, aside from the General Plan policies,
which generally talk about speculative practices may be established, there is no specific County
ordinance or regulation that prohibits the sale of real estate or any business for financial gain. I
mean like just, if that's the case, look at the one that you guys just recently recommended for
approval, BNP; they clearly said that they were going to sell the property, if they can get the
downzoning. What's the difference? If, if Puaa and Suffolk were going to speculate, then I
would have to ask myself, like, why didn't they sell the property in 2006 and 2007 before the,
you know, the recession came out in 2008? But, no, they continued to pay the real property
taxes over 1.3 million dollars, they spent nearly a million dollars in construction cost, I mean the
soft cost in preparing all of these plans, and finally, they found a partner. They are happy now.
So to me, it clearly shows that they were not interested in flipping the property. If they were
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interested in flipping the property, they would have done that way back when, not 15 years later.
So I think the operative question is like why the delay, why all this delay. I mentioned some
things already about, you know, they had a global recession in 2008, you know,people who are
involved directly or indirectly in the real estate or any development field would understand that
if you are the banker and you are trying to seek, you want to do a project and the bank thinks
that, oh, you know what,this is the field of dream, the bank is not going to lend you the money,
you know, because the field of dream is that don't worry, people will come; it doesn't work that
way.
Then, even right now, you know, even though he has Spring Group coming in, we know what
happened to the economy when you had things like the SARS back in the mid-2000, and now
we've got the coronavirus, and big firms are beginning to feel like the effects of that, you know,
from a global sense. Nobody can predict what's going to happen globally. But you need to have
some people at least willing to take a chance. Spring Group right now is willing to take that
chance.
The Director is saying that like you've got to recommend denial because the request is not
consistent with the General Plan. So I would say like, well, you know, if you look at the General
Plan and you look at the Charter, and I hate to use a religious metaphor, but the General Plan is
the so-called the bible. The Charter doesn't talk anything about the CDPs. The CDPs are
mentioned in the General Plan itself, the Charter only mentions the General Plan. So the
hierarchy of planning documents, you really have to look at the General Plan. And the General
Plan, Sections 15.1, states that the CDPs are designed to translate the broad General Plan
statements to specific actions as they apply to specific geographical areas. Essentially, the
General Plan is controlling. If there is any conflicts between the General Plan and the CDP, they
say that the General Plan prevails. So, then, you know, in addition to that, I would say like given
that, then if the General Plan, if the time extension was considered in 2011, and if the planning
director at that time had looked at the same document, which is the General Plan was approved
in 2005 the same document we have today, the planning director in 2011 said that, you know,
granting the time extension is fine because you are still consistent with the General Plan. So I
ask: Why today, we have the same General Plan document, and you are saying it's not
consistent. So I guess like if you look at it, the only regulatory change that has occurred since
2010 to where we are right now, are the amendments to the Kona CDP, which happened in 2019.
And the amendments to the CDP made, tried to make the CDP more of a plan than a regulatory
document. And in so doing, you know, they tried to make it a little more flexible and less rigid,
and so they used the terms like "guidelines" or"encourage." So from the applicant's standpoint,
we would say like there's no substantive basis to conclude that the requests are inconsistent with
the General Plan.
Now, if you look at the CDP itself—the Director recommends that you deny because he wants
the project to go through a Project District rezoning application, because the Project District
fixes the location of the TOD, allows flexibility in land use, density, design, so on and so forth.
But it requires a minimum area of 50 acres, and it requires at least two-plus years, plus
considerable funds, to secure State Land Use Commission approval, County Council approval,
master plan approval by the Kona Design Center and Planning Director, over two years. Now, if
you look at the TOD process and this site, the Transit-Oriented site, the CDP clearly, in my
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mind, allows other processing options aside from just going through the Project District. If you
look at the, you know, the figure that shows about where the TODs are established, they show all
of these property lines; these property lines, it's rare, you are going to find like one property that
has more than 50 acres in size. So to be able to effectuate a TOD, or, you know, through a
Project District, you have to get, you have to assemble all of these properties, get all of these
different property owners together, and it becomes an impossible feat. So only two developers
that I know of, and there may be others, I know of two developers that are going through this
TOD process, and it's been a long and laborious process. One is Palamanui and the other one is
Makalapua, and which is, and they are owned by, Makalapua is Lili`uokalani Trust, and
Palamanui, we know Palamanui. But land establish becomes an issue. And so what does the
CDP say? It says like, you know, many parcels do not meet 50 acres, so Section 4.2.2 states that
the establishment of a TOD should be encouraged, as long as the proposed rezoning conforms to
the CDP in terms of general location and concept, the legislative rezoning should be expedited.
So I ask you: Look at the map, isn't this like the TOD area? Even if you look at the Director's
recommendation on Page 6 of his recommendation, he says, "the CDP has already identified the
property and surrounding areas as a Neighborhood TOD, so this does not need to be done
through conditions of[approval of] individual rezone ordinances." So everybody is saying, the
map is saying, the Director is saying, this is a TOD area. So why then do we necessarily need to
go through, you know, project like this, necessarily need to go through a Project District. You
can have it incrementally implemented. And if you go, if you look at other TODs, you are going
to have no other option but to have TODs established only incrementally just purely based on the
parcels. So, in summary, from a locational infrastructure and land use perspective, it's clear that
the area is de facto a Neighborhood TOD. Secondly, the CDP does not mandate a TOD to be
created only through the Project District route and in one application. But you can have multiple
applications, and you can have like individual rezoning.
The other thing that the Director,the reason the Director recommended denial was that it can't,
it's a segmentation review because we bypassed the State Land Use Commission, and the
applicants have interest in other parcels to make up the 50-acre, you know, TOD requirement.
But as I mentioned earlier, first of all, these guys had no responsibility in creating these 14-acre
lots subdivision; they bought the property as is. It was done by Westpro. They just bought the
property. Secondly, it's that like for them now engaging other properties and putting it all into
one package now, you know, it's not economically feasible. It means that when you have like a
50-plus acre property and you are going to do a Project District, the only person that can do it,
the only type of business that can do it, would have to be a large developer; you cannot have
smaller developers like Puaa or Suffolk to be able to do it. Even this project itself, they needed
to get a strong backing like Spring Capitals, you know, to kind of come in. So if you increase
the size of the project, you have a greater potential for these guys, you know, out of necessity
now, having to spin off portions of the property. And, you know, the State Land Use
Commission, for those of you who had directly or indirectly had the experience of going before
the State Land Use Commission, have understanding that how time consuming and costly it can
get. But more than, more that the time consuming and costly, you know the cost aspect, I think I
would have to prevail upon like this body over here to look at yourselves and you ask yourself
like who is a better decision maker for land use matters like this? Should it be the State or
should it be the County? If you have the State, you are lucky if you are going to have two
representatives of, you know, from this island. It's a nine-member commission. So I would
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venture to say that the seven-member commission, the nine Council members that we have, are
in a better position to understand what the land use and community's needs are. If you take it up
to the Land Use Commission hypothetically, you go to the Land Use Commission, you have this
beautiful TOD plan, and for some strange reason, the Land Use Commission denies it, what do
you do? You can't even move. And they are like, bottom line is that I think that I would rather
have this body, the County Council, make important land use community-related decisions at
this level.
So bottom—you know, this is my conclusion, and I'll shut upI think here you have now, here
you have the applicants, you know, Mr. Cook is like 80-plus years, and, you know,they don't
have too long to be able to do like another 15-year time extension or whatever. And you have
like Spring Capital, you know, very strong partner,to come in and to be able to kind of finish up,
you know, to do a project that will do, that will provide much commercial services to an area,
provide much needed affordable housing, not only in terms of for-sale but rental, rental housing,
and they'll be providing much needed road connectivity—everybody talks about the traffic and
all that, you need to have connectivitya new road coming in, traffic lights at the Puapua`a
intersection, and they want to do this all in an area that the CDP clearly calls for and everybody
acknowledges as a TOD area. There are actually two paths to achieve these: One is the path that
the Department is recommending, that you deny this, force the developer to go to the State Land
Use Commission, spend all that amount of money, and not knowing what your outcome is going
to go; and the other option is take the path that we are recommending right now, it's a path that
you can make a decision right here, it's less costly, less time consuming, and you are reserving
the decision, you know, at this level here.
Now, I, because the staff did not provide a proposed recommendation, I did pass out proposed
recommendation for both the Puaa and the Suffolk one generally along, but, you know, along the
line of what I just represented, stated. However, what I did do was I used the recommendation
that the planning director back in 2005 did to justify the initial rezoning and made a few tweaks
to that,particularly, the tweaks relating to the Community Development Plan.
So I'm lost for wordsI guess at this point in time, you know, Madam Chair and Members
of the Commission, if there are questions that you want to direct of me or Mr. Cook or
Mr. Van Bergen, please do feel free to do so.
CARR SMITH: Thank you very much. Ken, could you tell us a bit about Spring Capital,
please?
VAN BERGEN: Sure. So prior to coming to work for the County—am I on? Prior to coming
to work for the County in 2009, I was the development manager at Maryl Group, and Spring was
one of our partners. So I've known this Group for over 15 years. They've been actively
developing in Hawaii for about 20. Currently, they are developing the storage units on Kamanu
Street above Costco. That's one of their local projects. They were, like a lot of people, hurt
pretty bad in 2008, you know, pretty leveraged up some of the resort developments, but they
chose to stay in Hawaii and keep investing, and are currently doing so and looking for other
projects. And so when this opportunity came to them, they were excited about it because it's
kind of right up what they do. I believe you guys were given kind of a syllabus of our projects
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from Spring Capital. We are notoh, I'm sorry, well, can I pass these out or do you want us to
do these? Basically, it's just a list of developments; it's kind of examples of what they've done
throughout the country, most in the West Coast, California, Oregon, but also North Dakota,
Oklahoma, Texas and other areas. They are a very seasoned developer. They are well funded.
When they, you know, folks on a project, it gets done. So unlike a lot of folks that come to
Hawaii looking to do something and fall short, because they don't understand the local
construction or, you know, how things work. And this is real, it's a real project, you know, we
are committed to working with the current owners to develop this project. But it's hinged on this
zoning getting approved, because without the zoning, there is really nothing to develop. It'll go
back to Ag land and sit there for however long.
I'm happy to answer any questions you have. I think they are, projects kind of speak to
themselves.
CARR SMITH: Thank you. Questions, Commissioners?
VAN PERNIS: I have a question
CARR SMITH: Mr. Van Pernis.
VAN PERNIS: of this person and also Mr. Fuke and also Mr. Cook. Should I wait until
Mr. Cook testifies?
CARR SMITH: Mr. Cook, were you planning on testifying?
COOK: Yes, I can.
CARR SMITH: All right, go ahead, please.
COOK: Basically, when the property was acquired back in 2004, we started working with
Michael Riehm to lay out a preliminary master plan to develop the project. And one of the
things that we found out is that the 100-year floodplain ran right through the property. And we
saw that the development of Pualani Estates on the mauka side of the highway, they had, with
their development, they had to construct a gunite concrete channel right at the entry to Pualani
Estates where the traffic light is. As you enter, on the left side, on the north side, there's a gunite
channel there, and then the gunite channel goes down almost to the intersection entering a multi-
throat box culvert that goes across the entry road over to where the little park is there. And then
the State, when they built the highway, they put an eight-foot diameter concrete pipe under the
highway to get the water at the low point, and then it would go over into our property on the
makai side of the highway. The water has never even got to enter that, with all the rains through
all the years; the water has never got in to the gunite channel. And the reason is the water did not
run as the old FEMA map showed it would run. And so what we had to do when we acquired
the property back in 2004 and went in to get the property zoned, we had our civil engineers, we
had to go and work with FEMA and the State, and we had to do what is called a CLOMR where
as you go in and you had, we had to take and do new contours all the way up. So on the north
side of Hualalai Road all the way up almost to Hienaloli Street, we had two-foot contours
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coming all the way down showing the actual flow of the floodplain. And as it came down and
crossed over Hualalai Road, it came in to two properties that we owned right on the highway,
two 14-acre parcels. And basically, we had to come up with a new design to how to get to all the
water and get it into the gunite channel, and then as it got to the highway, we had to design a
culvert crossing. And when the engineers got all the analysis completed, we had to design a
culvert crossing for the highway and multi-plate aluminum culvert that's 20-foot wide, 14.5 feet
high and 135 feet long,just to get that flow of water under the highway. If the 100-year storm
would happen, they said, they indicated that the water would breach over the highway some 400
feet, and probably wipe out the highway. So we had to design that culvert. We then as the
property, or as the floodwaters, enter the Pualani Makai project, we designed a concrete U-shape
channel, 40-foot wide, and it would, for every 50 to 70 feet, it would drop about four feet, which
build a velocity breaker to slow down the flooding waters. And just above Kuakini Highway
where the, we designed a large 2.5-acre retention basin, 25-, 30-foot deep to collect the water and
had barriers on the drop, and that is to take the water down, percolate down, so, anyway, we
designed that, and that takes a couple years to do. It took us almost three years to 2008 to get
things done engineering-wise, and we designed all the roadways, all the utilities, for the whole
project as it was shown on the original plan. Those costs we spent over 2.5 million dollars on
everything to date since we acquired the property.
And, by 2008 when we were ready to move forward, we had all of our designs finished, we had
the State Highway to sign the plans to build the culvert across the highway, which we were going
to pay for, and then unfortunately, the market just crashed on us in 2008, and so we were unable
to go forward, and the only thing we've been able to accomplish since then is just patiently
waiting. The Community Development Plan came in, and then it, it was so much different; when
we had designed it all that, we had spent all that money and had our thing designed, and now
then we would have to change everything, and it just didn't make sense to go forward at that
time. And, and then thankfully, we were able to get Spring Capital to show an interest to come
in. So, you know, when you are developing land as a developer, it's just like, I mean, about
every 20 years I go broke as a developer, because any time you develop something, it, you see
the land that can take you five to seven years to get it from what you bought to something for the
consumer, and the market can be up or can be down. So it's a high-risk business, and,just like
farming is, what do we do, if you do make a profit? We put it into the next project. And that's
what we've been doing.
And, anyway, you know, we tried to do something, we looked what the needs were in the
community. This is right in central West Hawaii. A neighborhood shopping center, you've got
Kahakai down below, you've got Pualani Estates up above, we had to build a 60-foot wide spine
road to connect the two, and we felt like it's an ideal place for a neighborhood shopping center,
affordable rental housing project, charter elementary school, and, you know, we were just trying
to do something to help our community. And we can't control all the factors that are involved.
When the Community Development Plan came out I signed an agreement with Sidney in 2014
to start working on a zoning exchange—and again, and, basically with the Community
Development Plan, it, I don't think there have been many developments since that was adopted
in 2008. And so we need housing, we need affordable housing, we need rental housing, we need
affordable homes, and where better but in central West Hawaii. It would help mitigate not just
the drainage problem but the traffic problem, too,because all those people living there, you've
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got Kahakai below and you've got Pualani Estates and even the homes up in Holualoa, can come
into that shopping center. Anyway, we are just trying to be part of the community, and I guess
that's all I can say for now. Thank you.
CARR SMITH: Thank you very much. Questions, Mr. Van Pernis?
VAN PERNIS: [Inaudible.]
CARR SMITH: Can you use the microphone, please?
VAN PERNIS: Mr. Cook, you've referred to "we"throughout your presentation here. Is that
Mr. Schuler when you say "we?"
COOK: Yes.
VAN PERNIS: Mr. Shuler developed this planned community of Pualani Estates, including this
property, right?
COOK: [Inaudible.]
HALL: Use your microphone.
COOK: Schuler Homes
VAN PERNIS: Well, the entity
COOK: was a, Schuler Homes was a division of D.R. Horton. D.R. Horton bought
VAN PERNIS: When I
COOK: Schuler Homes
VAN PERNIS: referred Schuler
COOK: in 2002.
CARR SMITH: Can, Mr. Van Pernis, please let him answer. Go ahead.
COOK: D.R. Horton bought Schuler Homes in February of 2002. Schuler Homes merged into
D.R. Horton, made them the largest homebuilder in the nation. Jim Schuler individually and
myself were looking at in developing the Pualani Makai property. Jim and I have known each
other since 1977. We signed our first joint venture agreement in December of 1977 on Oahu.
And Jim is, has been very successful, and when we do projects, he puts up the money and I do
the work, and that's been our relationship for 43 years.
CARR SMITH: Thank you.
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VAN PERNIS: Mr. Schuler is behind all of these LLCs. And would you have a role? Puaa,
Suffolk
COOK: Yeah, yes.
VAN PERNIS: So you are just a front man for Mr. Schuler.
COOK: No, sir. I'm a developer, I'm a land developer. Mr. Schuler was a homebuilder.
VAN PERNIS: Have you
COOK: And so I go through
VAN PERNIS: declare bankruptcy?
COOK: I go through the design process in getting a project as far as what we think would be
appropriate for certain community. I mean I have my talents, you have yours, and he has his.
VAN PERNIS: Mr. Schuler pays for all that.
COOK: Yes, I said that he puts up all the money.
VAN PERNIS: Okay. And you've declared bankruptcy.
COOK: I beg your pardon?
VAN PERNIS: You have declared bankruptcy.
COOK: I declared bankruptcy in 1976.
CARR SMITH: Mr. Van Pernis, please keep your comments
COOK: Why so personal?
CARR SMITH: —and your questions on topic, if you can, please.
VAN PERNIS: I think this is on topic. Mr. Schuler—well, let me switch to Mr. Fuke. Did you
represent any Schuler entity in the Pualani development?
COOK: I'm sorry, I'm a little hard of hearing.
FUKE: I guess, before I respond to that, Madam Chair, I guess like my question is that my
understanding is zoning or land use entitlements run with the land, not necessarily with who the
individuals are. Now, having said that, I will answer your question; I have done work with D.R.
Horton, I have not done any work, I've not done any work directly with Mr. Schuler.
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VAN PERNIS: Mr. Cook, are you still using, twelve years later,the 2008 financial meltdown as
an excuse for not developing?
COOK: I'm sorry but I'm having a hard time understanding you.
VAN PERNIS: I'm sorry. Can you hear me?
COOK: Yes, I think so.
VAN PERNIS: Are you using the financial meltdown of twelve years ago as an excuse for not
developing now?
COOK: Have I personally had financial problems?
VAN PERNIS: No. Are the limited partnerships who are the applicants using the financial
meltdown of twelve years ago as an excuse for the delay?
COOK: I'm sorry, I
CARR SMITH: I'm not following, either. And is this a part, Mr. Van Pernis, is this a part of the
application or is this something else?
VITOUSEK: The question I think he is asking is if the development group is using the 2008
financial meltdown as an excuse for not developing now?
COOK: It, it's not an excuse, it's a reality.
CARR SMITH: Okay, do we have other questions?
VAN PERNIS: Yes, I have several more. You admit—well, Mr. Fuke perhaps can answer this
question, or you, Mr. Cook you admit that you are in violation of the present ordinances.
FUKE: I don't even necessarily consider that violation. I know that, you know, it's one of those
kind of like a road-in-limbo's type, you know, you have the zoning, but if you apply for a
building permit, then you won't be able to do it. Regrettably, he still has to be paying the real
property taxes based upon the zoning, though, at over like, over 100,000 dollars a year. So,
but
VAN PERNIS: You were supposed to develop by 2015, correct?
FUKE: I'm sorry?
VAN PERNIS: You are supposed to develop by 2015-
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FUKE: Well, the administrative extension was up until 2015, that is correct. So the request right
now is to request for an extension retroactive to that period.
VAN PERNIS: What penalty is there for not completing construction by 2015?
FUKE: The penalty is that you can't move forward.
VAN PERNIS: What are
FUKE: You can't, you can't do anything. I don't know if there is any fiscal assessment or
whatever have you, you know, unlike other violations like for an SMA or a special, excuse me,
building permit, but to me, I think the major penalty is like you can't move.
VAN PERNIS: The property has been reclassified from Agriculture to Urban, correct?
FUKE: Back in 2005, correct.
VAN PERNIS: So the Planning Director can take this property and rezone it or downzone it to
Agriculture.
FUKE: It would be a separate legislative action to achieve that.
VAN PERNIS: Now, all of the things that you are asking to waive here in these applications
were promises made by the developer in exchange for the valuable upzoning, right?
FUKE: Not all. Some of them was like, you know, for example on the school, that was a
concern raised, and so Mr. Cook at that point in time made the concession to say, you know,
we'll provide it, you know, recognizing that their intent was to do something for the community,
and if the Council at that time felt that a school would be doing something for the community
and if it's something that they could live with
VAN PERNIS: What about the other conditions, other than the school
FUKE: —it's the same thing to have a representation that the 225 or 250, you know, housing
project would be exclusively reserved for rental, that was a commitment that they had made,
that's a commitment that they continue to make today for the Suffolk property.
VAN PERNIS: Is that affordable rental or just rental?
FUKE: It's rental—at that time when the Council had approved it, they wanted to stipulate, you
know, so many percentage be like at 80 percent or 90 percent or whatever have you—what we
are proposing here is that they be kept in rental and let the prevailing housing code prevail and
not to have like special legislation.
VAN PERNIS: And it may be up to 55 years from 2005 before we see the completion of
construction.
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EXHIBIT D
FUKE: I'm sorry?
VAN PERNIS: It may be up to 55 years before we see the completion of the construction you
are asking for.
FUKE: Well, the request right now is to have, you know, beginning like, let's assume beginning
2020 to have like a five-year start construction and a ten-year completion. So, if there is an
administrative extension provision considered, you know, favorably by this body and the
Council, then yes, you'll be looking at ultimately an additional 20 years to complete
construction.
VAN PERNIS: And that would be without the developer or the constructors going in front of
the public in any way.
FUKE: For the administrative extension, correct.
VAN PERNIS: And the public could not provide its input.
FUKE: But they could ask the Planning Director, I guess.
VAN PERNIS: And, have the conditions changed in that area since 2005?
FUKE: What kind of conditions?
VAN PERNIS: Traffic, for instance.
FUKE: And that's the, if you are relating to traffic, and that's why the concurrency provision of
the Zoning Code requires that when you go for a time extension and your projected volume is in
excess of 50, AM/PM peak hour traffic, you need to have an updated traffic study, so that was
done.
VAN PERNIS: Do you know how many subdivisions have been completed in the area of Lako
Street since 2005?
FUKE: Not offhand, I don't have an inventory, no, sir.
VAN PERNIS: Do you have any idea at all? A ballpark number
FUKE: I don't know how relevant that would be, because it would be a guess on my part and
VAN PERNIS: We're careless to avoid there's trouble there. Now, can you answer the
question?
FUKE: I'm sorry?
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EXHIBIT D
VAN PERNIS: Can you answer that question?
FUKE: The specific answer is no, I don't know how many new homes were constructed in that
area, no, sir.
CARR SMITH: Mr. Van Pernis, are you asking that as it relates to traffic or what, what's the
relativity here?
VAN PERNIS: I'm asking a question regarding traffic in that area. Are you still proposing 500
stalls, as the staff indicated, for the commercial area?
FUKE: Well, the commercial, the number of parking stalls is directly tied into what the Zoning
Code says; the Zoning Code says if you have a retail area, then the minimum parking
requirement is 1 stall for every 300 square feet. And if you are going to
VAN PERNIS: What was the staff said, the original construction of commercial area included
500 parking stalls. The staff then said the amount of commercial area was reduced but did not
say whether the number of parking stalls was reduced. Do you know whether it was reduced or
not?
FUKE: Logic would say that the parking would be, the parking would be reduced, because if
you are reducing it by 20,000 square feet, then, you know, mathematically there should have
been a reduction by 20,000 divided by 300. I don't know what the number is.
VAN PERNIS: So the
CARR SMITH: I believe that would be addressed to the planning level as well, not at this
rezoning.
HALL: Sixty-six less stalls.
CARR SMITH: Sorry?
HALL: Sixty-six less stalls.
CARR SMITH: Sixty-six less stalls.
HALL: If my math is right.
VAN PERNIS: May I ask the developer? Excuse me, sir, did you say you had worked with this
group before?
VAN BERGEN: Yes.
VAN PERNIS: And what group was that?
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EXHIBIT D
VAN BERGEN: Spring Capital. Spring Capital Group.
VAN PERNIS: And who, what individuals are Spring Capital Group?
VAN BERGEN: Tom, Tom Connor, the, one of the managing partners is
VAN PERNIS: No, I'm talking about, did you say you dealt with these developers, Mr. Cook
here?
CARR SMITH: Are you asking if Spring Capital has dealt with Mr. Cook?
VAN PERNIS: Is Spring Capital the group you meant worked before?
VAN BERGEN: Met with, no, I represent Spring Capital.
VAN PERNIS: Okay, did I understand you correctly to say that you had worked with these
developers, the developers here in Hawaii?
VAN BERGEN: No, I was referencing more of a personal reference; I started working
personally with Spring Capital back in 2006
VAN PERNIS: Okay.
VAN BERGEN: —and, so just trying to give you guys kind of an idea who they are and my
relationship.
VAN PERNIS: So you haven't dealt with Mr. Cook or Mr. Schuler.
VAN BERGEN: Not professionally, no.
VAN PERNIS: Have you made any commitment to them or any of their entities to develop this
project?
VAN BERGEN: Can you define "commitment?"
VAN PERNIS: Any commitment, any financial commitment.
VAN BERGEN: We are trying to acquire an interest in the property.
VAN PERNIS: Is it in contingent upon anything?
VAN BERGEN: It's contingent upon this rezoning getting approved.
VAN PERNIS: Anything else?
VAN BERGEN: No.
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CARR SMITH: Mr. Van Pernis, I want to make sure we get to the other Commissioners. If you
can
VAN PERNIS: Okay, I'll, I have a question of the Planning Director, but I'll reserve that for
later.
CARR SMITH: All right, very good. Commissioners, any other questions of the applicant?
VITOUSEK: Sure, I mean, I guess my question being that, you know, we are receiving a lot of
information very late in the game, and if in any way it's possible to continue this, if you guys
might be agreeable to that,to a next-month meeting so that we have the opportunity to review the
information that has been submitted to us.
FUKE: Madam Chair, I think that's, it's a totally reasonable request because I think there is a lot
of information out there. The staff provided you with, you know, a couple of inches, and we
provided additional information this morning. So, yes, I think that would be a reasonable
request.
CARR SMITH: So on that topic, so these items that we were given this morning that we haven't
had a chance to look at, so these are addressing your responses to each of the conditions?
FUKE: Yeah, so, you know, I prepared these proposed recommendations for approval in the
absence of, you know, the Planning Director's recommendation. So I used the original reasons
for the recommendation for approval, and I just made some slight editing, the editing being like
the reference to the Kona Community Development Plan, and more critically are the conditions;
the conditions reflect pretty much what we had proposed. Now, I don't know whether the
Director, assuming that he would be, you know, he was going to recommend approval, I don't
know what the Director's position on the conditions would have been.
The only change, I must confess that, in the interest of time, that I did not make change to, you
know, would be the fair share number, but I'm sure that that's an editorial thing that you've got
to just mathematically just change the numbers. But I didn't have time to make the change. But
all of the others are pretty much what we were representing in the beginning.
CARR SMITH: Had the County asked you to provide a timeline that maybe they did not
receive?
FUKE: No, they did, the County did, through Christian, the staff, they asked like what's the
development's time, timetable and all that. All we could just do was just like in generic, you
know, generic term because first of all, you know, understandably, Brian, you know, Puaa and
Suffolk independently, they are not able to do the project as was originally conceived; they need
somebody strong like Spring Capital, you know, to come in. Knowing that there is a number of
regulatory permits they still have to go through, you know, like finishing up the design and
getting all of the necessary approvals by the County, I mean, you know, we can project
realistically maybe like about a two-year window within which before like a first building permit
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EXHIBIT D
application can be filed, and hopefully sooner. But over and beyond that,this kind of generic
information, it was difficult in talking with Ken and also Mr. Cook to final, like, can we provide
them with a little bit more guidelines, you know, specific timetable, but we could not. So staff's
point is accurate, you know; we could not give them any detailed information other than a
generic response.
UNGER: I would recommend, if we do end up postponing this to the next meeting, I really
encourage the applicant to sit back down with the Planning Department and figure out a way to
work through to a favorable recommendation where it's generated from the Planning Director. I
understand your strategy just to give us a visual and a road map of if it was, you know, approved,
this is what the recommendations would look like. But obviously, we don't get a lot of
unfavorable recommendations from the Planning Department. So, again, I would just encourage
you to sit down and try hammer some of these issues out before you get to the Planning
Commission next time, if we go there.
CARR SMITH: Thank you for that.
VITOUSEK: Last one thing I just would hope that we could have like a real quick discussion
about the project in general and how it,the general effect would be. There is a lot of discussion
on the, you know, adherence with regulations and the County plans and whatnot, but just
wondering what you think the effect of the project is going to be on the Community.
VAN BERGEN: Well, I know from Spring Capital's standpoint, it would be a benefit, you
know, that's one of the reasons why we are interested in acquiring the property. We feel it's an
ideal location for something like commercial activity and shopping and so forth for not only
Pualani Estates but other subdivisions in the vicinity. And then the rentable housing, we all
know the huge shortage in Kona, so we'll eventually alleviate some of that by building a nice,
you know, affordable, affordable component of it would be, you know, for affordable
component. But, you know, if you look at the resume I gave you guys, you know,they are very
variously developing multi-family products, and so we are looking forward to bringing that here
to Hawaii.
VITOUSEK: All right, and then, as far as the passage of time, you know,the environment in
that area has changed considerably since 2005, and, you know, whether the developer would be
agreeable with working with the Planning Department to update the conditions and stuff that
would make it more in line with the current need in the area, with traffic, with all of that.
VAN BERGEN: Yes.
VITOUSEK: Okay.
VAN BERGEN: Yes. There is also some discussion,just as an FYI to you, of the remaining
acres below, Parcel 19, of doing maybe 201H or some other affordable housing, strictly
affordable housing components. The developer is very interested in exploring that as well in
addition to this zoning we are trying to get. But, yes, we work very close to with
recommendations from the Planning Department.
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UNGER: And just some background on this Planning Commission, we have brought up several
times now, and we are working through the concept of when a project time extension expires.
And I have to say it's a difficult situation, because it has expired. And so it's something that we
are talking about discussing, but expiration means expiration in most cases. So, so just putting
that out there. And I understand your discussion as to why it was extended etcetera, but at some
point the reason why you are going through all this convincing, I guess, or discussion with the
Planning Commission is that, hey, this thing expired, and now you are trying to make an
argument on why this body here should say, yes, it expired but. And so that's, that's an issue
that we are dealing with, and it's a very serious issue when it comes to projects like this.
VITOUSEK: And on that note that this is a zoning request, not a permit expiration; so it's a
zoning request that's not in compliance with the conditions. So, you know, we had talked
previously about the difference between an SMA Permit who has expired versus a zoning
ordinance that's not in compliance with the conditions. So, you know, in the past when we
reviewed this kind of thing, it has been, is this project something where the easiest path towards
completing the project is retaining the zoning, if the project has the kind of benefit that we
believe is what the community needs, or is it not the kind of project that we think the community
needs, therefore the zoning needs to be amended? So I think that, you know, if we have the
opportunity to make a thorough review of this, because I think this is a very important project to
thoroughly consider, and give us the adequate time that we need to look through the details of it.
CARR SMITH: Yeah, on the topic of expirations of conditions, that's definitely something that
both the Leeward and the Windward Planning Commission, they have been discussing, and the
Planning Department has made some recommendations, and we are working toward that,
because it really puts us in an awkward position to have to deal with these because it doesn't feel
right to us to just automatically extend expired permits or zoning, so that's something we are
working on. I think it's a matter of getting the two Planning Commissions on somewhat of the
same page as well.
I just want to get some clarity just to make sure that I understand this. So the CDP sees these
parcels as a Neighborhood TOD, but if you are talking about a Project District TOD, then that's
the larger combination of the parcels to get it to over 50. Do I have that right? It's complicated
to me.
FUKE: Well, you know, the process is so convoluted, you know, and I had to read it many times
and still then, I'm still confused. But like from, if I can distill my understanding, you know, very
simply, you know, like this area is generically referred to as a Neighborhood TOD area on the
CDP. It's generically referred on the Plan, and then it gets established, if you go through the
zone process, you know,the zoning process. And the CDP says like one of the ways to achieve
that is to go through a Project District zoning; they encourage you to go through, encourage, you
to go through the Project District zoning process because you can get these design flexibilities,
you can get additional densities, mixed uses, so on and so forth, and so they are saying that if you
can do that,then that's the, that's what, the route that they would do, and they would also
promise to expedite the permit because you are doing something that really what the Plan is
saying. On the other hand, the CDP, as I read it, says that if you look at the map and if you look
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EXHIBIT D
at parcels, it's very, it's, you are not going to find too many areas that you are going to have one
50-acre area that that you can kind of come in with a, you know, for a Project District. As I
mentioned earlier, Palamanui and Makalapua, you know, Lili`uokalani Trust. All of other areas,
you know, if you look up on the CDP, it points out a number of these so-called, these circles,
they are all like, you know, fractionalized. So that's why the CDP says you can kind of
incrementally, in my mind, incrementally zone areas, as long as you are mindful that this is an
area that you want to have like a TOD established. So if you zone this area as like maybe
Neighborhood Commercial and a Multiple-Family Residential area, if and when adjoining
property owners come in to have the zoning, then put your CDP-TOD lenses on in terms of how
you review that, because that's going to be already given, and then you see what kind of uses can
complement that to make an effective TOD.
CARR SMITH: That helps, thank you. Mr. Van Pernis.
VAN PERNIS: Yes. Before I ask Mr. Yee my question, I want to point out that we are not here
to guarantee a profit for Mr. Schuler but we are here to represent the interest of the people in
Kona, and that's why I think that when we get a negative recommendation from the Planning
Director, it should be treated very seriously rather than look for some way around it.
Now, Mr. Yee, my question to you is, clearly they are in violation of the ordinance. What is
their penalty or what is your ability to penalize them, considering that they have reclassified the
property Urban? In other words, is there any downside at all?
YEE: So there are many rezones out there that have not accomplished their conditions. I would
generally say we don't actively like track what all those are. We don't have the capacity. So,
many times in reality when an applicant comes back in, we discover something has lapsed.
Would we like to get to the place where we know things are expiring and be able to proactively
pursue property owners for action? That would be ideal, but we are not in that place. So when
an applicant comes in and we discover like something has lapsed, I think our general mindset in
the past has been to, you know, from a planning aspect, is there something of value here that we
want to have, right? You know, there are many times where we've come back to the Planning
Commission to say, yes, we should, you know, offer an extension or let's continue to move
forward. I think that's where some of the members have said we've started to review that
process in terms of when we find something has lapsed, you know, is it an automatic given that
we can just go ahead and continue to give them the entitlements or not, and we are trying to
question how we go about that process. I said, so when we find conditions haven't been met, no,
we don't actively sit there and seek some kind of violation or some kind of penalty for it.
Typically, that's not,just from a philosophical standpoint, that's not why I want to exist us to be
out there to just penalize when people don't want to, haven't done something; it's about trying to
figure out what's the best path forward for the county. So I think that's the best I can answer that
question at this point in time.
VAN PERNIS: So, is that a nice way of saying that these applicants have no penalty or
downside?
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EXHIBIT D
YEE: I think in this process of being here for three years, having them come in front of us to talk
about this, it's certainly a big step from where we were at when I first came aboard. It hasn't
been an automatic by any means. So I'm not sure, saying, by them, having them come back
here, I'm not saying, is penalty enough, but we certainly haven't made it easy for them.
VAN PERNIS: Well, when they got their original approval, they got valuable zoning for the
overall planned community development, and all the items in the application were promised by
the developers, by Mr. Schuler and his organizations. And they are now asking to waive a
number of these conditions. Does the Planning Department have a policy of demanding
something back from what was originally given? Or did they get all the benefits, and now they
waive their promises?
YEE: I don't want to talk about in general terms; I want, on this specific application, I came in
with unfavorable, I mean, I think that says a lot. And I'm sure just me saying unfavorable, you
know, certainly makes them really think about what they have to do. Again, I'm not sure that's
penalty enough, but that's what we are here for. And so within my authority right now to make a
decision, an unfavorable is a pretty big recommendation to put forth to you. And so I appreciate
the conversation, and I think given all the stuff that has been said today, I agree with having to
continue this to have more conversations. I think at this point I'd like Commissioners to be able
to throw out the questions they would like us to try to address so I know what those are as we
pursue conversations with them. That's kind of where I would like to go.
VAN PERNIS: And I think the conversation should include some of the testifiers who may have
something to say about
CARR SMITH: Yeah, yes, thank you. Mr. Darrow, did you have something?
DARROW: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to,there was some discussion touched
upon about our previous presentation that we did regarding time extensions and the difference
between zoning changes as well as permits and the direction that Commissions were heading
towards that. And Mr. Van Pernis himself was a part of that. This is a Change of Zone;
normally, there isn't a, you know, like a violation that's given out or there isn't penalties given
by the Department. The condition is clearly stated in each ordinance that should the applicant
not substantially comply with the conditions therein, the Planning Director can either revert or
bring it to a more appropriate zoning. In this particular case, the Planning Director is
recommending a more appropriate zoning, which is the Project District. But again, there can be
more discussion on that after the meeting through the continuance. But as we move forward, and
as we had mentioned, we will be bringing some rule and code amendment changes, but that's
something to keep in mind that we really, it sounded previously like the Commission wanted,
and the testifiers, that if zoning is appropriate for an area, we should keep the zoning in place; if
something doesn't get developed in a timely manner, then whoever is able to develop in the
future,they come back and they refresh the conditions, and they get upgraded. So it's, but when
you look at permits relating to like a Special Permit or an SMA Permit, that is for a specific
project for a specific timeline, and therefore that really expires; if you don't do that project
within that timeframe, you pretty much are, that's stopped, and you have to come in to refresh
that. Thank you.
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EXHIBIT D
CARR SMITH: Okay, thank you very much. All right, anything else? [None.] All right,thank
you very much, you may be seated. We'll move into public testimony for this agenda item, and I
just have one person on the list: Don Hurzeler. Raise your right hand, thank you. Do you swear
or affirm to tell the truth before the Planning Commission?
HURZELER: I do.
CARR SMITH: Thank you. Can you speak into the mic and
HURZELER: I will.
CARR SMITH: —let us know who you are and where you are from?
HURZELER: I'm Don Hurzeler. I am the vice president of the Heights of Hualalai
Homeowners Association, which is up Puapua`anui right below Hualalai Road, about 30 families
that we represent. And I'll make this very quick because you've had long discussions already.
We fully support the negative recommendation of the Planning Director and think it's well
thought out and well stated, and so nothing further to say on that. We also want to commend the
body here for taking this on as a holistic view rather than looking at these conveniently-sized just
smaller than 15-acre units as separate, looking at them what they are going to look like together;
we thing that's a very wise idea. The information on the school disappearing was news to me,
maybe old news to everybody else, but it was news to me, and so it does bring to my concern the
fact that,to the best of my knowledge, our schools in that area are already at capacity or near
capacity and are challenged as it is, and so what are we going to do with the young folks that
come in to the schools in that area—kind of a new concern for us. But as a resident of that area
and someone who has lived here for quite some time and been coming here since my wife's
grandparents' days who lived here their whole life, and to the honorable gentleman who is the
consultant from Hilo, what has changed was a question that he posed I think rhetorically to
everybody, what has changed? What has changed is the traffic. It is more clogged than my
arteries. I have a, I live up on a hill and can look down and see the traffic, and this is like the
pinch point of this side of the island. It's two lanes there, and I know that there would be
changes made and the like, but they would have to be massive. And I'm not so concerned about
what that causes me. If I want to wander off to Costco or Walmart, it's a few minutes here or
there; it's not like living in Honolulu or Los Angeles, but it is an inconvenience, and we can put
up with some inconvenience. What bothers me is that I sit up on the hill and look down and see
on a daily basis, and here on a daily basis, the emergency traffic that goes along the beltway
down there day in and day out at all hours. And so I'm very concerned about that. We have Fire
Department, and we have Police, and we have most importantly ambulances heading out to the
community hospital that cannot get through. And so that is a major concern.
So that's it. Keep up the good work, and thank you for your considerations.
VAN PERNIS: I have a-
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CARR SMITH: Thank you very much.
VAN PERNIS: I have a question for this testifier.
CARR SMITH: Sure, go ahead.
VAN PERNIS: Do you have an estimate of how many new subdivisions have been built in that
area since 2005?
HURZELER: I certainly do not, but I do know that it has been constant, and that there have
been homes after homes, including my own, built up in that area. And it is a dense area at this
point, and certainly the traffic patterns would show that.
VAN PERNIS: Is it, not including the emergency transportation, is traffic come to a standstill
there in the commute-in and the commute-out?
HURZELER: The traffic—and of course it's a little seasonal, too, winter is certainly worse than
the rest of the year, thank goodness, because we have visitors here that help our economy—but it
is about twice to three times a day horrible. It comes to a screeching halt coming in, going. And
it might be worse one time of day going toward Kona and another time going away, but it is
quite bad. And I feel horror for the people who have to work on a regular basis and drive that
every morning and every evening. It's got to be a major frustration to them.
CARR SMITH: Thank you very much.
HURZELER: Thank you.
CARR SMITH: Any other testifiers? [None.] Commissioners, we are going to have a motion
to close public testimony, please.
VITOUSEK: I move to close public testimony.
UNGER: Second.
CARR SMITH: Mr. Vitousek, seconded by Mr. Unger. All in favor?
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
CARR SMITH: Any opposed? [None.] Thank you, public testimony is closed. All right, we
need a motion of some sort.
VITOUSEK: I'd like to make a motion that we continue this agenda item to the next available
Leeward Planning Commission meeting.
HALL: Items.
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EXHIBIT D
VITOUSEK: Items.
HALL: Yeah.
VITOUSEK: Make a motion that we continue these agenda items to the next available Planning
Commission meeting.
KEALOHA: I'll second.
VAN PERNIS: May I comment?
CARR SMITH: Is that, is that motion clear enough?
KAY: Yes.
VAN PERNIS: I think we may need the consent of the applicants.
HALL: Yeah, they said, they did already.
CARR SMITH: I think they made that clear in their testimony. Any other discussion about this?
All right. Can we have a vote on the motion, please?
HALL: You can do an all-in-favor.
CARR SMITH: Okay. All in favor of the motion?
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
CARR SMITH: Any opposed?
VAN PERNIS: Nay.
CARR SMITH: Okay.
KAY: Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. Motion carries, five to one. And I just extend that to
both ordinances, or both requests, okay?
VITOUSEK: Yes.
KAY: Yeah, motion carries, five to one, for both.
CARR SMITH: Thank you very much.
The discussion ended at 12:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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EXHIBIT D
Noriko Sauer, Secretary
Leeward Planning Commission
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EXHIBIT D