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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2020-09-22 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: September 22, 2020 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building – Aupuni Center Conference Room 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:30 pm. Stanley Mendes, District 1 – here Kean Umeda, District 2 – here Vacant - District 3 Naniloa Pogline, District 4 - here Abraham Antonio, District 5 - here Grayson Hashida - District 6 - here Vacant – District 7 Vacant – District 8 George Donev, District 9 - present Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Joe Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel Barbara Kossow, Deputy Managing Director Nancy Pisicchio, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim GUESTS: a. Terrence Noda, member of the Hawai’i Island Na Ala Hele Advisory Council, active hunter, and ATV Instructor will lead discussion on hunter trails and access, and would like to hear the concerns from the public on the matter. b. Kanalu Sproat, West Hawai’i DOFAW Biologist, will give us information on the latest eradication efforts. c. Gerard De Lima will give us a field report and observations from the point of view of a hunter and gatherer. CALL TO ORDER: (6:30P) NP: I’d like to call this meeting to order at 6:30p. OK first we’ll take roll call. Stanley Mendes, District 1 – here; Kean Umeda, District 2 – here; Abraham Antonio District 5 – here; Grayson Hashida District 6 – here; and George Donev District 9 - present. Thank you very much. OK. Welcome everybody, it seems like a miracle we can have this meeting. Thank you everybody – all the commissioners and thank you 1 to the County staff – you guys are awesome and thank you also for Joe Kamelamela our legal representative who’s standing in for Malia Hall. Is this correct Joe? JK: \[Unclear\] APPROVAL OF MINUTES NP: Are you going to be permanent with us or? Just… Thank you so much for being here. OK. So first of all we’ll do the approval of the minutes. Did everyone have a chance to check on the minutes? Any comments? Anybody want to move to approve the minutes from February 11 – a long time ago – last meeting. SM: I move… NP: Stanley moves to approve the minutes. Anybody want to second? GD: Donev, District 9, second. FINANCIAL REPORT NP: All in favor say aye. \[The ayes have it\] OK. The financial report – I did not see one so I’d like to defer that… ?: \[Unclear\] STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC NP: What was that? Let’s see, we do have some people out in the public that are joining in our meeting and so at this time I want to ask anyone in the public wishing to comment on agenda items - but also to take note that during the entire meeting you’re allowed to comment on the agenda items - but anybody want to say anything at this time? OK. Steve Hurt… So if you could come over here cause the speaker is here and it just picks up – ah, let’s see, we should have a chair for him. SH: Steve Hurt with Big Island Bird Hunters. Basically, I want to thank everybody that worked to draft the letter that’s going to Suzanne Case and et al, however, I’d like to throw this in and ask if that letter be reframed until you could think about this. If I was to receive that – it’s just another sheep these guys are complaining about and it gets thrown in the waste basket. I would suggest the data to go with that: what the palila count used to be; what it is now; how it’s declined; the number of the sheep when it started; what the number is now showing the decline in them and pictures – most importantly – of the same area 40 years ago and where it is now - show something that’s vital – that was then and this is now. Perhaps that’s another way to put ammunition behind the letter that you’ve got – otherwise… NP: Put the facts… SH: Put the facts and show the pictures – raw data – that comes from whatever source – I know before Tom Lodge had a lot of information – he might be an excellent source to bring it up somewhere near current and that would make a much larger impact on those that will see ‘cause it’s just not the head of DLNR. The copy list that you’ve got is 2 significant enough to where someone in that chain hopefully says, whoa, let’s take another look at this and go back and assess it in a much deeper manner other than a straight line fold without blinders and see what the picture is really like, what the benefit or loss is of having a reduction or a loss; step down and let some of the sheep numbers come back or what are you gonna do to restore the forest to the way it was because one of the things that came out in a study by the Smithsonian Institute – the two authors were Olson and James – showed that there used to be flightless birds with mandibles – this is through skeletons that they found – that grazed just like goats and sheep. If you take the goats and sheep that are up there now – you’ve got the next California/Oregon fire ready to happen and that’s stated in the letter also – that that would be why – what else are you gonna do to keep that forest alive and it’s dying right now. We all know that. NP: Exactly. SH: So that’s what I’d like to impart to this body. To go forward more boldly with your letter, documentation and proof. NP: Thank you that’s really some good points. SH: Anybody have any questions? NP: Or any other comments? SH: OK. Thank you. PRESENTATION Terrence Noda, member of the Hawai’i Island Na Ala Hele Advisory Council, active hunter, and ATV Instructor – will lead discussion on hunter trails and access, and would like to hear the concerns from the public on the matter. NP: Thank you very much. Any other comments from the public? All right, so we can move on to our presentation. This is Terrance Noda – a member of the Hawai’i Island Na Ala Hele Advisory Council, active hunter and AGB instructor. He will lead us into discussion on hunter trails and access. Many hunters and fishermen are concerned about access, access preservation and maintenance. I would like to know if there’s a fair amount of attention being given to hunter and fishermen access - what the hunters \[unclear\] to fight for their access when there’s unexplainable closures, anyway, Terrance is an expert on many levels and he’s here on his own account and so I would just give you the floor. JK: \[Unclear\] NP: That would be good, thank you, Joe… TN: OK. As far as access, a lot of time people have a misconception that when you ask for access or you’re requesting access into an area the complication becomes that of the regulating body to find you access – but often times that’s not the case. So we’re kind of the advisory council there listen to the public and 3 we basically represent user-groups on that council. However, we’re strictly advisory – similar to your council and a lot of items people come with a mindset that if they ask for access it will be granted. But a lot of times it’s multiple type access… NP: A long journey… TN: Right. So before people come and ask for access a lot of times it’s beneficial if people do their homework – they have to basically find an old government road and see if that road or trail access falls within the realm of the program and then see whether or not the access has been fenced off or occupied by somebody else. So lot of times KSB, for example, has a lot of land that used to be – how would you say - an easement would go through that land – since then they’ve fenced off those locations because… NP: Isn’t there some sort of protection for the public where if an axis is being used casually, informally, or whatever for so long historically, isn’t there some sort of protection that it would be preserved> TN: Not necessarily because, again, we go back to the legal challenges that we’re often faced with and even for me - when I want to access a certain area - one of the prudent things is that it’s a recognized access – so has the program – for example, DLNR, or whatever venue you’re going there for hunting or fishing – is that a true, recognized public access? NP: Yeah, but I thought that, well, maybe it only goes for 4-wheel vehicles - if an access has been used by 4-wheeled vehicles for 100 years or something like that – it has to remain a public access… It’s an act from the 1800s or something? TN: The 1892 – the Queen’s Act – The Highway Act of 1892 – that’s something that Na Ala Hele also… NP: But that doesn’t go for trails - that only goes for 4-wheel vehicles? TN: No, that goes also for trails, but, again, it’s up to the program manager often times as well as the program itself to determine whether or not that trail is actually where it was originally earmarked to be. NP: Yeah, for example, like Old Government Road down along the ocean from HPP to Shipman Hilo – that was horse and buggy but, yet, they still bouldered it off. TN: I’m not sure exactly where you’re talking about… NP: Old Government – it’s a Na Ala Hele Trail – it goes to Shipman Beach – Keaau Beach… 4 TN: Well, again, if there’s a trail that you’re interested in or want to have Na Ala Hele look at - the proper venue is to bring it to the council. NP: But even up in Puu Makaala – they actually took the accesses that were ancient accesses and barred it all off from the hunters and turned it into actually the place where they used to put their fences – so, I guess, that… TN: It’s multi-folded because there are so many different trails throughout – even though they’re under the Queen’s Act of 1892. First off – there’s got to be money often times to survey for the metes and bounds of… NP: I see, so it has to be proven… TN: Right. And so they’ll go through vast inventory searches and then come to find out somebody purchased the piece of property there where the trail used to be or is no longer there so it becomes very complicated. NP: So basically accesses have not been protected by government entities… TN: I don’t think there is a government entity that protects all access… NP: Unfortunately. TN: So, again, if there’s a trail, a specific trail for an access – the council is a public meeting and anyone is welcome to provide public testimony and if somebody from a vested interest in – they’ll research it \[unclear\] but again it goes back to – so unfortunately people have to do some of their own homework. NP: Get at attorney… TN: And, no, and just prove to the \[unclear\] this existed – a clear shot \[unclear\] trail because of budget limitations… NP: If anybody has a comment on this… DF: Yeah, I do. Nani, this Don. NP: I think we lost you… DF: No. There’s a lot of interference… Real estate law has a thing called adverse possession where if you use land that is not yours for I think it’s 20 years – you have a right to go to court and claim ownership. And when I worked for Alexander and Baldwin they would expand their cane fields onto neighboring properties and then go and claim adverse possession and that was not a nice thing to do but if something has been historically used – you can go to court and 5 have that issue resolved. So I don’t know if that applies to government land or not but that’s with private lands. NP: Yeah, thank you. Right. I know that there has been complaints about the Narnia Falls access getting shut down by the DLNR and people are really upset about that. The public’s used it to go to Narnia Falls and then hunters – that’s also a hunting access – it’s been barred off recently and the explanation for that is that it was never a legal access and in fact it’s state land that’s leased land and so that’s it, um, we cannot go there any longer even though people have been using that and going there forever. My question is, maybe, um, Terrence, you might know something of this. So if there’s state land and the state land is leased – isn’t there any kind of protection for public access in state land that’s been leased that should be established or could have been established? TN: Then it goes back to the program manager and the DLNR. So even though access has been granted before - often times I found they can just take it away and somebody possibly complained about it – but in the past I worked with one of the foresters for the program to secure agreement for Ainapo Trail, which currently runs through a leased area, and negotiations were made and access was granted by a combination… NP: So it does happen… TN: For Ainapo Trail. So that goes up to the slopes of Mauna Loa through the ranch. NP: Were there a group of people that perpetuated that or insisted on it or… TN: I believe a lot of the hunters… NP: Pushed for that? TN: ….made comments to… NP: So possibly, if a group of people got together and pressed that maybe – even after the fact… TN: Well, it’s always beneficial to hear from the public… NP: If they got organized and said, look, we want public access and this is state land – arrange for state land access, lease land – so there’s hope. And, of course, I was hoping fishermen would be here – the fishing access issues have been really a thing, um, but unfortunately they didn’t show up tonight. Coastal access, also, is an issue, but… TN: Yeah, so, \[unclear\] at Council meetings there’s always a portion for public testimony as you have testified in the past and their testimony as well as Steve 6 Hurt’s testimony and Tom Lodge was instrumental in getting some of the recent \[unclear\]. NP: That leads to another one of my questions that maybe Steve Hurts might have more to say on that palila trail that’s going in so part of the question for hunters is then, OK, well, they’re making this fancy trail for hikers but what about the access for hunters are one, for example, improvements on accesses for hunters, um, is there a fair balance in that – improving access not only for hikers but also for hunters. TN: Yeah, well, again – can’t fix anything that we don’t know is broken so… NP: Yeah. So the hunters there too would have to maybe come – request to come to a Na Ala Hele meeting and they would say, hey, what about our one – it’s very hard to traverse and then they could just draw attention to it – that would be the best thing? TN: They could do that or they could, yes, get ahold of one of the council members and as you know – the council members would then – like here – air the concerns… NP: Well, yeah, I have gotten comments from hunters, that, yeah, up to the Palila Trail the road’s really nice – after that it’s just – it gets bad after that and so I have had complaints about that but OK. Well, thank you. Anybody else have any comments or questions or? AA: Yeah, Abraham – District 5. NP: OK. Abraham go ahead. AA: Yeah, just, um, where and how often do you guys have your guys’ meetings and how can we find out about your guys’ meetings? TN: The meetings are posted on the state site – I can get Nani that information. NP: Can we get on an email list? TN: Um, you can also contact the program manager at the local office here at DLNR. AA: So my question – I can barely hear you guys – I going try unmute for a little while… NP: What did you say, Abraham, you can’t hardly hear us?- AA: My question and I could barely hear you guys – it was all static… 7 NP: You want to repeat that? TN: So we generally meet every other month. The next meeting is coming up in November – I don’t have that date with me but you’re welcome to contact Nani and I’ll get her that date. AA: Yeah, I can’t really hear – it’s breaking up so I’ll just get the information from Nani later. NP: Yeah, right, he was just giving you contact information. Can you hear me better or is it just all of us you’re having a hard time hearing? AA: Just this particular time it’s everybody just kind of sporadic but before that was perfectly fine. NP: OK. We’ll hope for the best. All right, then, thank you so much Terrence – unless anybody else has anything else to say? I’m sorry Steve Hurt – I didn’t see you \[unclear\]. Hold on there Terrence. SH: OK. Hope this \[unclear\] you folks… NP: You can remove your mask for speaking please – so that it’ll come clear. SH: Um, as far as the one Na Ala Hele Trail that they’re trying to turn into a program trail on Mauna Kea – that one I’m aware fairly much of what’s going on and we’re basically trying to call to task the Na Ala Hele Program trails to follow its own administrative rules and that is basically requiring that they have in there is no matter where one of the program trails go – no matter whether it’s through private – public, state, federal – whatever laws are the most strict – the laws that have to be abided by - by the users of Na Ala Hele trail and that’s what we’re saying – where season’s going on – that one program trail \[unclear\] goes right through the center of hunting – so we’re basically saying – anyone that’s in there has to follow the same rules the hunters have to do when they’re in there. Blaze orange – and that goes for hikers, photographers, and anybody that just wants to go as an observer. If we’re hunting, people with us as observers have to obey the blaze orange. NP: So is that going to be with the AG? Terrence? TN: Yeah, the council did approve the last – at our last meeting for our working group to submit a letter. SH: This is where testimony – the hunting groups and the fishing groups – where with these trails matter to them they need to speak up at these meetings because that’s what helps get this though otherwise what they had originally was just – we’re just advising everybody to wear bright clothing and that doesn’t work. Blaze 8 orange has got to be the rule of the land because that’s what’s in the administrative rules. NP: A safety issue, for sure… SH: Absolutely. Same as somebody walking through in camouflage ‘cause they want to take pictures – you can’t see ‘em you don’t even notice ‘em if you’re swinging your gun. Who’s gonna get hurt? Are they allowing someone to get hurt or making a big issue that we can’t have hunting in there? No. Follow the rules. NP: Casualty waiting to happen. SH: Yeah. It’s better for \[unclear\] and it has manners. Chair probably knows – I couldn’t get through on the last meeting- I could hear everything going on but they asked three times – we have somebody on the phone – they gave my correct phone number, I could hear – but I could not talk. The code that I was given, whether it was correct or not, to get in was… NP: The new world of technical problems. SH: So, anyway, that’s why this meeting – I wanted to sit in on it – there’s no electronics involved in what we’re doing here at the table so I wanted to make sure \[unclear\] step up to the plate and assist when you can. NP: Thank you Steve. That’s good. All right, unless there’s any other comments or questions? Thank you so much Terrence. We are moving on to our west Hawai’i DOFAW Biologist, Kanalu Sprout – are you there Kanalu? Kanalu Sproat, West Hawai’i DOFAW Biologist, will give us information on the latest eradication efforts KS: Aloha. NP: Thank you so much for coming, I really appreciate it. So Kanalu’s gonna give us an update on the latest eradication efforts by the DLNR. I wanted this information for our later agenda item 7A. So it’s gonna all tie in so thank you Kanalu. Go ahead. KS: Hey, yeah, no problem. Sorry if my camera’s a little shaky, I’m on the phone and I don’t have a tripod or anything so, hopefully I don’t get anybody motion sick. So we have had this year – so I was only asked to update for basically the last six months to a year. NP: Yeah, thank you, yeah, six months… Since COVID… 9 KS: So I’ll just give you numbers. If you have questions about the numbers I share – just ask. So we had area operations to remove animals in February 14 and 15, during that time we removed 46 total sheep… NP: Sheep? KS: Yeah, sheep. NP: From what area? KS: On Mauna Kea. So the first day - so generally what we do is we break it up by day. So the first day is normally kind of from Kilohana over to Hale Pohaku – kind of that area – so the south part of the mountain and then the second day we go on the other side to Puu Mali and kind of the northern portion of the mountain. So for the first day on that southern part of the mountain it was 33 total animals removed and for the second day it was 13. In February it was 46 sheep removed. We do a salvage operation where we’re on the ground and the guys shooting trying to gather as many sheep as they can and bring ‘em to people who have called – the public that have called in for a permit to salvage so on this – during this time in February we only salvaged 9 sheep. So it was five on the southern part of the mountain and four on the northern part of the mountain. So that was for February 29. NP: So that was February 14, 15 and 29… KS: February 14, 15, yeah, and then we went again in August 18, 19 and 20. So that was three days. We did the first day on the southern part of the mountain, the second day on the northern part and then the third day we came back to the southern part of the mountain. So I’ll just give you information by day. The first day we shot 22 males, 23 females and 2 juveniles for a total of 47 sheep. The second day it was 9 males, 20 females and 3 juveniles for a total of 32 sheep. And on the third day it was 8 males, 20 females, no juveniles for a total of 28 sheep removed. So for the whole – for all three days together it was 107 sheep removed and then salvaged – we salvaged 64 animals across those three days. And then we went again just earlier this month – we had – it was two days – so the first day on the southern part of the mountain – on that day we shot – sorry it was September 9 – we shot 17 males, 20 females and 4 juveniles – for a total of 41 sheep. And on the second day it was 3 males, 9 females, no juveniles for a total of 12 sheep. And so the total sheep taken in September was 53 and total salvaged was 30. So for the year – in the three operations that we removed animals there were 206 sheep taken with 103 salvaged. So that’s my update. NP: OK. Were there eradication efforts anywhere else besides Mauna Kea? KS: No. 10 NP: Not in Puuwaawaa in the fenced areas? KS: Not eradication, um, we fenced – no, not eradication. We fenced \[unclear\] unit, actually that was almost a year ago. But that Aiea fenced unit we pushed – it was over 50 sheep that we pushed out of the fence and so into the hunting area. NP: That was the Helehele, how do you say that area? KS: Aiea – this is almost a year ago – but that was the Aiea fence unit which is right below the Poohoohoo Reservoir… We pushed out like over 50 sheep and there was one sheep that remained and we did use staff time to get rid of that one sheep that was left. And then they did just finish recently closing up a fence unit on the puu itself – they pushed out – I don’t remember the number – I think it was 30 something sheep that they pushed out but there’s still maybe 20 in there. We’re not planning on using staff time to eradicate those animals – right now we’re just trying to push the rest out into the hunting area. NP: Are you following any of those sheep that you’re pushing out as far as how well they’re doing survival wise… KS: I don’t know if any of those sheep had collars on them but in general, no, I mean, we just push ‘em out of the area and they’re not marked or anything and so… NP: Some see their health decline… KS: We really have no way of knowing that because they’re not marked and so we can’t go back and say oh that sheep was in there and is not in there anymore… NP: Yeah… KS: But we’re removing them from the fence live and then into the hunting area. SM: Kanalu…? KS: Yeah. SM: ….Stanley. How come you guys cannot utilize the hunters in those areas? KS: Which areas? SM: In the fence. KS: Right now we’re moving them out live into the hunting area. We had one sheep that we… SM: No, I understand that… 11 KS: ….\[unclear\] to remove so… I don’t… SM: \[Unclear\] KS: Sorry? SM: The other section that you guys had push out and get still get sheep inside, um, why the hunters cannot go in… KS: So you guys want to come in and push ‘em out – like walk ‘em out the way we’re trying to walk ‘em out? SM: No, you guys – why can’t the hunters go in and hunt it – that’s my… KS: We’re not removing them using lethal methods – we’re pushing them out into the hunting area where they can be hunted by hunters so I don’t understand the question. DF: Can I interrupt – this is Don, um, the only sheep that you can take in the normal hunting areas is non-typical rams, so they’re not being eradicated. SM: So before you – if you cannot push the rest out you gonna let the hunters go in and hunt ‘em or you going staff hunting? KS: Yeah, so if we’re unsuccessful at removing the last – I think it’s like 20 something sheep, we’re not gonna go to staff first – we’ll try – we’ll go public first – but I was just talking to the guy out there and he thinks we can do it – we can walk them out of the fence before we get to that point, but, yeah, we’re not planning on using staff for removal, I mean, unless it was like one sheep or something like that – what we did up at that other one but not for that larger group, no… SM: OK. NP: So Kanalu – after all the sheep are pushed out and then the grasses grow – then they go in there with weed whackers, herbicide, control \[unclear\] where they’re pushed out of this fenced in area? KS: So the fenced units are intended to be restoration areas where they… NP: Yeah… KS: …..plant and restore back to native forest. And so getting the grass down they would be using manual control and maybe herbicide but, yeah, the area – that’s the reason they’re removing the animals is because when they do their out- 12 plantings those animals will then go eat the fresh young plants right? And so they’re trying to stop that from happening. NP: Any other questions for Kanalu? Comments? KS: If that’s OK I’ll just make on comment that you know you mentioned R1 earlier and we did – so every year we do try to touch it up and fix as much as we can before the bird season starts because, you know, it’s a larger road – it goes around the whole mountain, but just so you know we do have a bulldozer up there right now and our operators will be working on that road before the opening of bird season. NP: Oh, that’s good news, thank you, that’s great. KS: Good. I’m glad I could bring some good news. NP: Yeah, thank you. BL: Hey, Brian Ley. I’ve got a question for you… I heard a lot of grumbling that the eradication helicopters were also shooting pigs and other ungulates besides just sheep on Mauna Kea. Is there any truth to that? KS: I can’t speak anything to that – I don’t think they are – so other ungulates that they can shoot would be goats, if there are goats, and that was part of the court order - so we remove sheep and goats. As far as pigs, I don’t think so. I’m never in the helicopter – I’m never part of the operations. It’s not something that is reported. I don’t think they’re doing that, but, I mean, if you guys have – I guess if there’s any kind of proof or anything – video or whatever, maybe it can be brought to our attention but I don’t think so. BL: OK. I just heard some grumbling and I wanted to clarify it at a public level and stuff like that – what about the cattle salvage that was going on by somewhere – I remember a couple of people were in on them – was that considered an eradication when they were doing the meat harvest on the cattle. KS: You know, I guess that would be a type – an eradication – and so I apologize. I don’t have information on that. That’s something that the East Hawai’i Wildlife Section kind of heads with the Forestry guys and I think that was out by Keanakolu, but yeah, I’m sorry, I don’t have any information on that right now. NP: Thank you. Any other questions or comments for Kanalu out there anywhere? All right, well, then thank you Kanalu so much for showing up. KS: Yeah, you’re welcome. 13 Gerard De Lima will give us a field report and observations from the point of view of a hunter and gatherer. NP: You’re always been there for us, I appreciate it. OK, so, um, we have next Gerard De Lima. He’s gonna give us sort of field report and observations from the point of view of a hunter and gatherer and um, also Gerard has applied for District 3 Commissioner and we’re hoping the best for him – that he might come on board with us, um, so thank you so much for being here with us. GD: You guys can hear me? Thank you guys for letting me come in tonight. So \[unclear\] pandemic and a lot of the people are relying on the animals off the mountain. What I’m seeing is the top no more animals, Hawaiian Homes is eradicating and removing cattle, you guys fencing off, I mean, there’s a lot of projects going on right now – move the animals off the Islands. The problem with that – as one rancher – when the animals is go in they going start touching our personal animals. It’s happening already. Parker Ranch going get hit hard. Parker Ranch going get hit hard pretty soon – as soon as DLNR locked off Mana Road and stuff but people’s ranches going get… NP: You talking poaching… GD: Oh, yeah, guarantee… These people got to feed their families by the state removing the animals off the land you’re taking away food from the people – taking away food from the people that is on state lands now you going make those people that is relying on that food go after people like me and my pastures and \[unclear\]. I haven’t hunt outside my pasture in years because I don’t want to deal with anybody else. I try to stay on my own place and, I mean, when I go cruise the mountain and I seen the top – no more sheep already, I mean, the grass is tall above the fence – right below the fence is bollohead – the mamane trees is dead, the koa trees is dead, actually, the koa trees is still being salvaged by DLNR and still being sold out of Keanakolu forest, um, and elsewhere on that mountain along with the plans with DHHL of doing the same thing, you know, we all cried conservation – everybody cried conservation – but you cannot conserve nothing if not going to have the people around, you know, everything is conservation but yet you plan on cutting down the koa trees 100 years from now. You know, we going kill all the animals, plant trees, but yet we going cut all those trees down, right, we cannot be saying everything is in conservation for reforestation if you still going keep cutting down the trees. Cannot kill all the animals that saved that mountain. If it wasn’t for the sheep on that mountain – the place burn down guarantee. The sheep is the only thing that’s eating the gorse on Mana Road on Mauna Kea, you know, there’s the overhand and the over reach of the state entities going cause one adverse reaction to the mountain. The animals live in fear – one helicopter fly past they run, right? You guys shoot ewes leave the babies behind to starve to death. The cattle that’s being killed on Mauna Kea they’re being roped, chased, whatever – caught. And the babies are left behind to die, you know, and this is – I had a conversation with 14 William Aila about this and he said that’s part of the eradication efforts – they don’t care. You get some sick people – sorry… You guys can let animals die and he told me that the big ranchers let these animals die because nobody buys them because they don’t have feed so they going let them go. I get $150,000 worth of animals in my pasture that go to people – to feed people, right. Now that’s my personal animals. The state can shoot all the ones on the mountains – fence off areas all over this Island and just kill animals in the name of saving one tree. But how many invasive species have we allowed to come into Hawaii. NP: Excuse me, so, Kanalu – can you tell me something about that. You said that on the harvesting – the eradication on Mauna Kea there was – were a lot of the babies left unshot and slow to starve to death – they don’t shoot – they don’t capture all the babies and the babies are left without a mother and starve to death? KS: That probably happens. The goal of our operation is to remove all of the animals and then unfortunately some of them starve to death… NP: I just noticed on your count – the count of juveniles that are killed are really few and the count of the female sheep is really large – so I would assume that that is what Gerard is saying is true – is what I’m just checking on – is that what he’s saying is true? KS: Yeah, I think that’s a good assumption – that some young animals get left without their mother and that they’re likely to starve to death. NP: OK. Gerard, I just wanted to verify your information. Go ahead. GD: I appreciate that. Um yeah, it’s a sad state when we can allow this to happen. I \[unclear\] trap the sheep up in the mountain. I got dragged around, weeks on weeks. I see you smile braddah. ‘Cause I did, I spent a lot of time on the phone with a lot of people – only to get just dragged down. COVID came nobody said nothing – end, fly and shoot. And 50% of that 50% wasn’t consumable. KS: I don’t know you gotta ask the guys that… GD: .50 Cal rounds through sheep, braddah, 50% is inconsumable – you hit one sheep in the shoulder with one 22 it’s gone. You know how it works, Brah… KS: Um-hum. NP: You have to cut away the bad meat… GD: Yeah, but, if you trap one animal you get 100% of the animal. I mean, if your eradication efforts are to remove an animal and you plan on, I mean, you giving the numbers – 50% of what you guys shot was consumed or brought out to be 15 consumed. But 50% of that – so 25% of what you guys in actually – 25% of what you guys went kill was only consumed. So 75% waste. That’s a lot of waste, especially one time when people are starving. 60% of this island is unemployed and we’re just leaving ‘em for the dogs on the mountain. You know, the palila bird, the numbers going down – why? Cause you get cats up there. The sheep never did make one decline on the palila bird. It was the feral cats that they like go up in the mountain and nobody trap. The dogs that is up there that nobody do nothing about. You got to talk about predators – that’s the only way something going die is you get one predator, right or if the state creates one predator like, hey, \[unclear\] like hey, killing all the sheep – so one palila bird – they guys going shoot the palila bird – every time they see one they going shoot ‘em – why? ‘Cause that bird right there is taking food away from their family, right, so you create a target when you do target species protecting, right, we get protection for everybody but not for the Hawaiian people. Get invasive species on this Island – invasive species on this Island get more protection than the Hawaiian people. Not endangered species. But… NP: Can you talk a little bit about Hawaiian homelands and what you know about the eradication efforts on Hawaiian Homelands… GD: I don’t know too much on the efforts. I know that they removing a lot of animals. NP: Cause we don’t ever hear about that so much… GD: I think they’re in the vicinity of some 200+ cattle went to Honolulu already from this Island. They say it goes to the beneficiaries but not all the beneficiaries have gotten it – that’s a whole ‘nother different meeting from this, but, um, I know the state guys was taking cattle out of Keanakolu for their own personal gains. I know something about hunters from Honolulu coming up to Mauna Kea and shooting cattle and I also heard some stuff about state guys shooting cattle and only taking the back straps cause that’s all they wanted for take. Um, you know, it’s kind of one dangerous world we live in right now and a lot – they’re going have repercussions from this – you know the sheep in the long run – that sheep on Mauna Kea on DHHL - that sheep run every day from people. Every day it’s gun fires – it’s madness up there. You don’t know where bullets are going, you don’t know what direction people shooting and the sheep is always \[unclear\] so the sheep are always frightened so when you actually do catch one sheep the animals is full of adrenaline, um, and I’m pretty sure there’s gonna be long term effects on the reproduction systems of the sheep being high stressed all the time. NP: Yeah… GD: Sheep that would be normally giving birth to two a year will drop down to one and then your animal numbers will start dropping down even lower. NP: So no refuge for the animals. 16 GD: Yeah, right now there’s none. The sheep is always on the run, the cattle’s always on the run. I think DLNR is going up this coming weekend and being Mana Road – something like that – you never heard anything Kanalu? KS: No, I’m sorry, I haven’t heard anything about that. GD: Something about one memorandum of agreement or something between the state, Department of Hawaiian Homes and DLNR to enforce something on the roads. KS: Yeah, I haven’t heard anything about that. If it’s enforcement – that would be Enforcement – a different division than us… GD: Yeah… But it’s all the same guys, ah, all the same hand, different fingers… KS: Different fingers. ?: \[Unclear\] District 5 – isn’t Mana Road a county road? ?: Sure is… GD: That’s another one, too. Nobody wants to claim ownership. They claim ownership they claim liability. That’s why you see the only good section is up to the federal – up to the bird sanctuary – ‘cause that’s the federal guys – they don’t want to put the money in for infrastructure. ?: I can barely hear. ?: The road is county but actually nobody wants to claim ownership cause of jurisdiction reasons and liability reasons. NP: Did you catch that? Are you guys hearing over there? ?: Sporadically. ?: Oh boy… NP: OK. Well does anybody have any more comments on the subject? Anybody want to put in their two cents about it? ?: I have more but I can barely hear the response so I guess I’ll get in touch with him later or talk to you Nani about it. NP: OK. I guess you’re the only one really having trouble. Well, hang in there. OK. Thank you Gerard we always appreciate live report from hunter/boots on the 17 ground experience which you’re observing, which you’re noticing, what you’re worried about, concerns, really appreciate it. Thanks so much. OK. So I guess we’ll keep moving right along… For Old Business our bills that were in the Legislature – unfortunately the word is that our bills – because of COVID – are gonna go back to square zero for the next Legislative season which is a big disappointment cause we worked so hard to push our bills but the good news is that the same legislators that sponsored our bills – that introduced our bills – we can directly straight back to them again and we don’t have to give them all the info – all the ground work has been done – so good news there and also to be positive – there were some directions our bills were going in especially SB2417 where the wording was getting changed as it does in the Legislature so now we can take it back to the wording we wanted so that’s something positive about it so I’m saying as of our next Legislative season long live our bills SB2417 which was a really great bill. It had almost made it all the way through – which was so heart breaking but that requires the Department of Land and Natural Resources to recognize that our game animals, game birds provide a food source and requires DLNR to update its rules and policies to integrate the local hunting and fishing into any food security and sustainability strategies, um, so, ah, hopefully this bill will fly through the next legislative season. It had had a lot of legislative support, um, so hopefully all the legislative support is still there and there was SCR 62 that would have – we requested DLNR updated stats and statistics related to the palila decline on Mauna Kea and to conduct further investigation into what really is causing their decline since there is no sheep and it’s still declining. That’s a really important bill. Kai Kahele sponsored this bill. He is behind it. Hopefully, he will again, and then our other bill – SCR 138 – the PHCP of Puuwaawaa and Puuanahulu would be completed – that would allow game animals to co-exist with endangered species and so I’m hoping this next year with these bills will continue on in their fight so that’s Old Business there and let’s see – then so we’ll move on to New Business. I trust that you had a chance to read the letter… OLD BUSINESS Report of the status of our bills in the Legislature, and discuss new strategies. ?: Excuse me Nani… I think Todd has some stuff on the legislative part unless you want to… OH, yes, Todd, speak up. Todd is an expert at the Legislature. TY: Hi, this is Todd Yukatake I’m with the Choy Farms Coalition and I take care of the legislative business as far as farm and hunting bills so I did put in a link in the written chat window – there’s a link that someone shared a few seconds ago… That’s a list of all the farm bills and hunting bills that were introduced this year in the Legislature, their status and also links to them if you want to look up – maybe I can show it myself here – let’s see if I can do that – all right here – can everyone see this spreadsheet? OK. Yeah. You can all access this by just clicking on the link. If you just click this link for each bill you can actually bring up 18 the status of it like this… Just so you can look it up yourself. You can look at the text of the bill here but just clicking – you’ve got committee reports – summaries of what happened in the hearings and you can read everyone’s testimony right here on the bottom right. And, of course, there’s the status list how it went through the legislature – which hearings it went through and which ones it passed. Getting back to this list – most of the bills died – which is normal – but more of them died this year COVID suspended the Legislature in March 16 and then after that they only went through priority bills for the year. As far as gun bills that passed that affect hunting- one of ‘em is this gun violence commission HB 2744 – what that is - is there’s gonna be a committee/commission of about a dozen people like Prosecutor’s Office, Police Departments, Gun Control Group, also a gun rights group – so in that committee they’re going to develop legislation or bills to recommend to the legislature to pass so they could – it would affect – firearm bills – it would affect firearms that’s used in hunting so that’s something to be aware of. There’s also SB3054 that passed. If you take a firearm out of state permanently – you have to report that to the police department within 5 days or you get $100.00 fine. As far as some of these other bills here – you’ll see a lot of these come back next year. Let’s see – important ones as far as hunting goes – ammunition verification for purchases SB2635 – makes it a little more difficult for you to buy ammunition if you show registration forms – you can only buy the calibers on your registration forms – so if you have a group of hunters going hunting and one person has to go to a store and buy ammunition – they might not be able to buy everyone’s ammunition – that’s how it affects hunting – other things – HB1600 – that’s a very important one – you cannot loan firearms to other people. So, you know, hunting rifles you cannot loan to your friends – you cannot – you might not be able to loan firearms to minors too – like your son or something to go hunting with his other friends, stuff like that – it might affect that so… Repeal provision to loan firearms – let’s see – other things – just real quickly – I think those were the main ones as far as hunting was concerned. There were like 40 something firearm bills this year. Yeah, I think that’s all the farm related ones and then as far as hunting – the pro hunting ones – like you said recognize game birds and mammals as a sustainable food source – that almost made it all the way through… NP: Yeah, didn’t it, I know… TY: Yeah, so it passed all the important committees and it was stopped because of COVID. NP: Yup. TY: So I think if next year you introduce that it will go through. The other two bills – the resolutions SCR138 and 62 – that didn’t pass because normally resolutions are introduced halfway through the session, which is normal, and that’s when COVID hit – so that’s why they didn’t get anywhere along with probably like a hundred others like those. Bills that did pass – there was one for forfeiture of 19 animal parts for hunting offenses SB2188 – that’s like for poaching like ivory tusks. Before it was just a fine and prison sentence but now the law enforcement can confiscate those illegal products now but that could affect even poachers poaching illegally on other people’s private lands and stuff like that if they’re caught – you know they get the fine and stuff but they get their products taken away. Everything else died here. The other one of note – there’s a lot of – removing bag limits for game animals – there were several bills like that – looks like it got a bunch of support and it might have gone through if it wasn’t for COVID too – so you’ll probably be seeing those next year also. There were like about four or five bills like that. The other one that almost made it through HB1921 requires written permission when hunting on private lands – that’s for hunting guides and also hunters so if you – like you hunt on your friend’s private land – you have to get written permission from them and submit that to the DLNR before you go hunting and that’s, of course, to combat poaching and if the criminals were on private land and when they’re caught they claim they were hunting so that’s to avoid those too. Those are all the important ones – you’ll see those again next year – a few others here might be of interest – HB1689 – prohibits sale of animal fur products – that’s like fur products for clothing but it excludes leather products. A few other bills here like HB2753 youth bill and SB2061 right here – those were federal grants programs that could be given to groups that promote outdoor activities for children so those could, you know, might be able to get those for like hunting programs like Hunter Ed programs, stuff like that. Those were progressing well until COVID hit. Are there any questions? Yeah, so I suggest you go through a lot of these bills ‘cause they’re going to be coming up again next year and resubmit the ones you submitted previously. Session starts in January 2021. NP: Wow, Todd, thank you so much, that was very thorough and you’re a computer wizard obviously. Hey, there is a question for you from Brian Ley. BL: Brian Ley – question – Ruderman had one – they were trying to do a single shot shotgun for bird hunting – did that one just die a miserable death or is that still on the table? TY: It died. Let me see which bill. SB2464 – require a single shot long guns for bird hunting. Let me check the status here. Did not go anywhere. Didn’t get any hearings. BL: Good. Thank you. NP: Wow. We know who to ask. TY: Yeah, so I’ll get a list like this up next year also. I think I go through all like 3,000 bills to identify the hunting and fire arm bills in there. ?: Can you guys hear me? I got a question. 20 NP: State your name. NB: My name is Nikolai Barca. NP: Oh, Hi. Hi Nikolai. NB: Hey. A question for Todd. Is it normal to see bills trying to make hunting rules like removing bag limits or mandating like single shot shotguns? TY: Um, as far as these bills go – yeah, you see bills like this every – or similar bills to it every year. As far as the big bag limits – I don’t believe they had that last year. They had a bunch of eradication bills last year for like deer on Maui but I don’t think they had 8 bills removing bag limits last year that I can remember. NB: Yeah, that was a surprise when I saw that… TY: Yeah, but there were several on there – similar ones… NB: Thank you. KS: Ay, Nicholai, this is Kanalu. I’ve never seen that – I’ve only been with DLNR six years – that’s the first time I’ve seen any bill trying to go – so that bill was trying to change the Chapter 183D Hawaii Revised Statutes – so it was trying to remove the Division’s ability to set bag limits. That’s the first time that I’ve ever seen that. NB: Thank you. DF: Hey, this is Don Fujimoto. Kanalu, isn’t this kind of a push from the administrators at DLNR to have us kind of eradicate the animals? KS: \[Unclear\] I can only say that we don’t have any hunting areas where the goal is to maintain any level of population and so all of the hunting areas, any management or \[unclear\] for game mammals – the goal is always to reduce the numbers to, yeah, and, so – I cannot say that that’s because they want to eradicate everything – I cannot say that. I just will say that our hunting – the goals in our hunting areas – are always to reduce the number of animals. DF: Thank you. RK: Chair, this is Ryan Kohatsu. May I share something about these bills \[unclear\]. NP: Yes. 21 RK: OK. This might be a little useful because maybe the state employees can’t mention it but I didn’t speak with Chair Yamane of the Water and Land about these bills and I did have an exchange with Nicole Lowen as well. It wasn’t directly stated by them but if I had to make a guess where they were sourced – some of them were sourced by a guy around here – a \[unclear\] environmentalist guy – he was just concerned about Mauna Kea and all of that and some of it was forced because of the goats on the road in Kona. So both representatives that had introduced this bill had felt that removing bag limits would help those ends – a little bit of other stuff that may be useful to know – the public might want to know – is the DOFAW administrator did ask all of the biologists on all the islands what they felt about that issue and it is my understanding that a lot of the biologists disagreed – we shouldn’t be removing bag limits because this is a way that we manage our game and take and \[unclear\] a hunting program system but later DOFAW administrator David Smith went and testified and this is on public record at the \[unclear\] that in his capacity as the administrator speaking on behalf of the DLNR at that point that they support the removing of the bag limits perhaps against some of the communications of the biologists that handle the hunting. So it’s just something I thought maybe the public would like to know – some of these - a little bit of back story and maybe stuff not everybody talks about. NP: Thank you, Ryan. Any other comments on the subject? KS: Howzit. This is Kanalu, if I can make just one more comment. NP: Sure, thank you… KS: I also spoke to Representative Lowen about that bill removing bag limits and just shared with her some of my thoughts and so I would encourage everybody to contact, especially the authors of those bills – and let them know what they think about it, um, she had some thoughts about why she drafted the bill the way she did – and I explained to her why I didn’t think it would solve the problem that she was trying to address and she was very amenable to, you know, at least talking story with me and I opened her eyes to some things so I would just encourage everybody – pay attention to the bills and make contact with lots of people in committee and those representatives. NP: Good advice. Things that hunters can do to make a difference. Thank you. It gives hunters something actually to do – they need to understand how they can make a difference. Thank you Kanalu, that’s really great. TY: And this is Todd Yukatake, um, yeah, another thing the hunters should do is submit testimony for these bills when there’s a hearing – the more testimony supporting or opposing the measures the better and makes it more likely that it will be passed or killed for hunters. 22 NP: Yeah. Thank you, Todd. Yeah, so many hunters they’d just rather be out hunting – they don’t want to be on t heir computers but… They need to. They need to step up to the plate and thank you for encouraging that. Appreciate it. SM: Stanley – District 1. Two years ago when we was down at the Legislature, um, Lowen was one of them concerned about the goats all over Kona. And I made her aware that these goats is not part of the state – it’s on private land. DLNR cannot do anything for this for hunting. You gotta get landowners permission to go hunt these animals and I got the feeling where because we don’t have that degree on the back of our name or on the front of our name – eh, she didn’t want to hear the comment. So, yeah, I tried to get her to understand that it’s not the public’s goats it’s on private property. NEW BUSINESS Review, discuss, and vote on an advisory letter to the DLNR on the value of our game resources in the near future NP: Yeah, good point. Thank you, Stanley. Any other comments, questions – we got these guys up here – any other questions, comments? All right then, we’ll move on to New Business. We’re composing a letter that will be from GMAC to the DLNR, um, advisory letter, it’s our duty to – we were nominated by the public on the ballot to be advisory to federal, state and county and so we’re composing a letter to the DLNR with our advice to contest the federal eradication mandate for Mauna Kea and reevaluate the wild game eradication agenda in all state game management areas. Since the game has been diminished for the purpose of native forest reforestation – everybody seems to \[unclear\] it’s a growing problem of invasive grasses, weeds. We’ve got diseased native vegetation as well adding to the fire fuel so we’re saying let’s reevaluate the situation especially since sheep and goat have proven to not have been the problem – the culprit – for which they’ve been made. We’re asking for a balance instead of game and native forestation that they might even complement each other rather than have this eradication agenda – not only for the sake of reducing fire fuel problems but also because the time we’re living in with COVID – we have uncertain shipments – the grocery store shelves are looking kind of empty some days – the prices are going up – the cost of imports – we can see it – it’s written on the wall – we’re going to be paying a lot more for food in the new future, um, so we should have more local food resources and certainly in the past game has supplied the local food resource in hard times and generally in all times and so we’re asking for a balance, a return to consider that need right now rather than – that’s why we had the eradication report to show that that eradication report has been \[unclear\]. We’re having this disaster of a pandemic affecting our economy – causing joblessness and it seems very illogical and so I hope all of you have had a chance to read this letter and so I would like to ask the Commissioners right now if they have any thoughts about the letter, any comments, anything they’d like to subtract from it or add to it. We also had a great comment from Steve Hurt – he 23 made some really good suggestion for our letter, um, so, I’d like to ask all the commissioners if they have any further thoughts about it or even \[unclear\] or the public too that might have a comment… AA: Abraham – District 5. I read the letter. Sounds good for me. NP: Thank you. AA: I support Steve’s comments – maybe you can get in contact with \[unclear\] and get those pictures and if anybody \[unclear\] and Ryan might have some newer pictures or even Brian Ley and put all that together and send ‘tm with this letter. I think that will be more strong like Steve said. NP: Thank you. So if there aren’t any other comments about the letter, oh, go ahead Terrence please. TN: I guess \[unclear\] public testimony. NP: OH, yes, I’m sorry. Right. Terrence did have a comment and I’d forgotten. You want to try speak and see if you come in loud enough. Terence has a comment on our letter which I really appreciate. TN: Thanks, Nani. Well, first off I applaud your efforts for putting together this letter. And I now understand what your goal was. I didn’t understand it by just reading the letter. One of the things that, I guess, and Kanalu can probably validate is contesting the eradication just based on what the state decision is will not have very much effect on the overall eradication because it’s from Judge King’s order and it’s a federal order. For the, I guess, the recovery plan for palila – one of the things that you may consider or want to consider drafting into your letter and which his possibly a double edged sword as well – is the overall safety and security of the user groups that go up to Mauna Kea and Steve kind of touched on the fact of the fire load up there – I go up there bird hunting all the time and when I’m bird hunting there a lot of the access roads are closed – they’re no longer \[unclear\] like R4 or R5 that can get you off the mountain safely should that area catch fire. And so that is one of my major concerns and possibly you want to consider putting that into your letter. NP: Are R4 and R5 are overgrown – is that why? TN: Well, just the whole area is overgrown and especially the Kaohe lease area – it’s really bad – so, and the observations of cats, rats, and other rodents there are true observations because majority of the time when I go bird hunting, that’s what my dog puts up – there’s not very many bird species because the habitat is gone – with the cattle – when they removed all the cattle slowly the bird species started to diminish as well as increasing the opening of Wednesdays and Thursdays for bird hunting has increased the strain on the in bird population. 24 There’s other things that should be considered because ultimately I’ve heard biologists – I used to speak with a lot of biologists ‘cause I was a wildlife biologist myself and I heard comments, especially from those from different conservation groups that it’s easier to manage a closed area. So with that being said, you know, I’m not surprised that the bills that were being put forth through the Legislature to increase bag limits as a means of reducing the number of hunt able species – once it’s gone then you don’t have to worry about access for hunters. NP: Yeah… TN: Again, with this letter I, um, you know, you mention a lot about invasive grasses, weeds and diseased vegetation, however, you know, one thing I would ask for is what is the current palila recovery plan and what is their wild fire plan and what are the routes of exit, again, a double edged sword because DLNR can easily say well, we can’t manage it – we’re gonna close it and I’m not sure if Kanalu would be able to comment on that or not but, um, that’s one of the things that I think they should consider in your opportunity to draft a letter because your letter will hold a lot of merit when it goes before any group because it came through a council that was voted on and approved by the people. So you have a good opportunity like the same council I sit on – we often have good opportunities to get questions answered but I applaud your effort. NP: Well, I suppose, right, we’re not naïve – we know our letter will probably have no effect but we’re establishing a paper trail so did we in fact have these concerns and if our concerns become more and more valid the fact that we gave our advice faithfully and we had pointed these things out and nothing was done – so that’s more the goal that I have realistically, but thank you, the point of safety and security \[unclear\]. TN: It’s the overall safety of \[unclear\] because what happens if there’s a fire? And I’ve been \[unclear\] at one of the state airports and just the breeze coming by and I wasn’t even in the area of the fire it severely damaged some vehicles. NP: Not to mention smoke inhalation. TN: Right, that as well, so… Because the fire load is so great and we’re walking – a dog is actually walking on dead grass and it’s really bad and the whole thing is when the fire starts as behind Mauna Kea was evident – when they start trying to bull doze and build fire breaks – the fire will a lot of times – it’ll try to cover the fire and that causes the fire to go underground and it comes out some place else. So you cause more devastation and if you look at that are currently behind the park, um, they look like they tried to do some plantings but the top soil is gone. NP: Yeah… 25 TN: So there’s nothing there so, you know, I think one thing important to point out to whoever Suzanne Case or whoever this letter is going to – is your efforts are to possibly, you know, create they part of the court order or abide by the court order by having suitable habitat for the palila because of the fire load there that is basically gonna destroy all the mamane trees… NP: If, in fact, it is about the palila and the mamane… TN: Right, but that’s what the court order is… NP: That’s right, right, but for their protection. TN: Right. So to reduce down the fire load and people can disagree but up there, right now, it’s all invasive species. Majority of that area, especially Kaohe lease area is all invasive species so the only way to control invasive species is with often times an invasive species so, and it’s – and the last time –and it’s something we contested with even our program manager – the area’s listed as a game management area, so if it’s listed as a game management area what is the plan to manage the species in that area versus just eradication? NP: It’s always what we’ve asked for is management, actually, a good game management plan but we’ve not had much luck. And rather than just an eradication plan – a game management plan – it seems a reasonable request. TN: There should be plans for everything. There should be a fire management plan, there should be a wildlife recovery plan, a palila recovery plan, and those plans need to be adhered to so if somebody – whoever’s the program manager – needs to look at that and, you know, this idea of herbiciding around just the mamane tree – it’s not going to prevent that mamane tree from being extinct should a fire go through there. NP: Thank you, very much, Terrence. That’s very helpful, very education information. NT: Thank you. NP: All right. So in order to send a letter we need all the commissioners to vote on it so, um, I’d like to ask at this time if there are no other comments… RK: Chair, this is Ryan Kohatsu… May I just make a quick comment? NP: Go ahead, please do… RK: This is just a suggestion, maybe something to think about for your letter – one of them would be and maybe you need legal counsel on this – but one of them would be, you know, the actions taken are due to a federal court order – so given that order and given the history of the program of trying to get to zero to meet the 26 mandate – it may seem unrealistic that the state would be able to meet that mandate – in one sense they would always be in violation of it – so perhaps there is some kind of legal recourse where you are unable to meet an unrealistic mandate and perhaps some kind of appeal or whatever legal thing there is there, you know, they’ll always be in violation of it \[unclear\] realistic to get to zero kind of thing – that may be one, you know, a legal angle of this – maybe something you want to look into. The other thing I have is the cost angle, um, you know, these things cost a lot of money to shoot and as the numbers diminish – each sheep to kill goes up in dollar value of that fund – so that may be a statistic you may want to look into as they reduce and low numbers – say you only kill ten a flight – what did each of those 10 cost for that flight and then adding on to the appeal maybe some kind of legal \[unclear\] advisory is would be, you know, we can’t meet it, we’ll always be in violation of the order, well, what is the alternative? Shall we propose a reasonable alternative plan that reduces the cost when these diminishing returns for eradications happen. So, ah, hopefully that makes some sense. It’s just a suggestion real quick. I don’t want to go in too deep but, ah, before you wrap it up there. NP: Yeah, no, it just seems to me after 40 years the federal government should – they should require and update of information on the success of this – on the new statistics that are coming up – thank you, Ryan, there’s all these great statistics that the DLNR can take – it seems to me there must be a way they can take this information back to the federal court and contest it or at least update them on this information so they could re-evaluate the court order, I mean, it doesn’t make sense anymore after 40 years so it seems to me there must be a way if they were really \[unclear\]. TF: Nani, I got a question for Kanalu. This is Tom Fujimoto. You know Ryan brings up a really good point – what is the cost of doing the eradication – the flights and the hunters and everything? KS: \[Unclear\] So, I was ready for that question. In February, the cost for flying was $19,845. We flew in June but we didn’t eradicate in June – we put callers out in June to – for the next – so that the next time we went out we could find more animals – that cost was $12,015 dollars. In August, we charged two different POs so one of them was $12, 015 and the other one was $13,692 dollars so – so far – and we have not gotten the invoice for September yet, so I don’t have those numbers but for February, June and August the total for the year is $57,567 dollars. ?: \[Unclear\] you guys \[unclear\] animals. \[Unclear\]. NP: Thank you. All right. Did that answer your question Don? DF: Yeah, it did, thank you. 27 RK: Nani, what I meant by all that was say the numbers get super low and you only kill like 5 a flight, does that become a threshold that \[unclear\] funds under a court order mandate – so therefore the state may want \[unclear\] the other financial responsibilities of the state as well. NP: Yeah, thank you, Ryan. That’s a very interesting point of view there – a strategy – thank you. On that note I would like to introduce Ike Yoshida – he’s our former commissioner for GMAC. Ike, would you go ahead and… IY: No, I just wanted to bring this up. You always got to go back to the spirit and letter of the law. So, um, I think in the Mauna Kea situation, you know, I hate to say it this way, but I think the environmentalists has the state on a stick because, um, you know, the judge’s decision as written, um, puts the state I believe in a bad place because they could have gone with a consent decree and ended the situation then and there, but they decided to agree on – I don’t know what the legal terms are here but they sort of left it open so at any time in the future, if say the environmental interests are unhappy with what happens up there – there is always the possibility of going back to court so – which brings back another point – and this might be a little confusing but seems to me that we have come to these meetings many, many times now – we never go back to the law and by that I mean what is the letter and the spirit of our laws and if you look at the Hawaii State Constitution it talks about the management of our natural resources and included in that natural resource verbiage is the idea that our game mammals would be managed as well but what has happened in the State of Hawaii is that we have ignored that and our policies – and therefore our statutes and our rules – all provide for this basically the ignoring of the management of our animals – so until such time as we get the land board and the DLNR to begin to carry out the letter and the spirit of our laws we gonna sit around the table and talk story and that’s what we’ve done for what? Five, ten years now. And all of these points that all you guys made today – we’ve heard ‘em – but it goes nowhere and, you know, we can get angry at the staff but they’re basically carrying out the policy that is set somewhere and to be the letter – it’s a good letter – but it should go back to the letter and spirit of our constitution and talk about the policy cause we handle policy and the policy we have is to eradicate our animals and that’s the wrong policy because it’s not managing the natural resource so that’s my point and I’m sorry to confuse all you guys… NP: Thank you, Ike - Ike knows the whole story from way back. OK, so, um, maybe just with a few adjustments on this letter – I would like to make a motion that we send this letter and all the cc. JK: \[Unclear\] somebody else… NP: I’m sorry. \[Unclear\] JK: Somebody else \[unclear\] 28 NP: Oh, I’m sorry. That’s right. Would somebody or our commissioners make a motion that we send this letter? SM: I make a motion that we send this letter with \[unclear\] what Steve said with all that inside \[unclear\]. NP: That was Stanley Mendes made the motion anybody want to second the motion? Kean: Second. ?: Can you repeat Stanley’s motion? NP: Stanley Mendes made a motion to send the letter with the inclusion of what Steve Hurt had to say in his testimony and his comments to the letter – as well as there were a few other comments – we have our notes – including making a security issue as Terence Noda had mentioned making it also about a security/safety issue – I like that in there – so just some minor adjustments and so Kean’s second and so all in favor say aye. \[The ayes have it\] JK: Roll call… NP: OK. JK: Like call a name… NP: Joe says we need to be sure that we got all the ayes so I’m gonna do a roll call because of the static – Stanley Mendes-District 1 SM: For… NP: Kean Umeda – District 2? KU: Aye. NP: Abraham Antonio-District 5? AA: Aye. NP: Grayson Hashida-District 6: GH: Aye. NP: George Donev – District 9? GD: \[Unclear\] 29 NP: OK so were they all ayes? Did we hear all ayes? Yes? ?: Yes. NP: OK. Thank you very much. OK, um, the next thing is we have a print out from Ryan Kohatsu – on a game management plan – I really like it because it’s just a no-brainer and it’s a graft – so simply – did all of you have an opportunity to see – did you not see this? It was an attachment. ?: Oh, OK, yeah, I did see it. Discuss a “Game Management Plan” designed by our previous State GMAC Representative, Ryan Kohatsu NP: OK. And I asked Ryan as a comment from the public if he would like to talk about his game management plan here. RK: Yeah, let me explain that so – the intention of me building that wasn’t for commission or anything – the intention of that was purely on my social media stuff – so now not serving on the State Game Management Advisory Commission I’m going to kind of push myself just toward putting out information that I think is useful and maybe relevant for the public at large. That piece of – that communication – that content is purely – is more from a philosophy of how I feel we need to approach game management as a hunting community having seen the obstacles and struggles politically and socially and then all of that so – basically it goes with a where, what, how, why and in the spirit of the state last when, but, um, that piece of paper you have addresses the where first and, of course, there’s the other things to talk about – what, how, why, when – but that is the where so, you know, basically it just says areas that we should be able to keep animals – the lowest hanging fruit areas – places that don’t have – maybe don’t have any native species – don’t have any endangered species or maybe a very, very relative low ecological native species value – we should be able to keep animals there and up until this point – everything that I have tried to do and more specifically say at Puuwaawaa, which is a working cattle ranch, some of those areas are the prime places to keep ‘em – it’s lantana, fountain grass, lava rocks, hardly any dirt, really, so erosion’s not even the deal, um, you know, and a lot of the native species in the most sensitive areas have been fenced off already. So it’s a classic example of a place where you should be able to keep animals once the other areas are protected but you seem to get obstruction in just keeping ‘em in those areas and this also includes Puuanahulu which anybody in Big Island knows is probably 90% fountain grass, so, um, if we can’t – if you want to look at a political angle, you know, attacking what is reasonable it makes more sense – if you can’t even keep them in those areas having the environmental argument – taking care of them, you know, we don’t even have a starting point, so, um, one of the things on the State Game Management 30 Advisory Commission if you guys read the charter language and maybe you can push this at the representatives that will be there next – I don’t know who’s selected – I’m not aware of it is – if you look on there is says – they can suggest areas for game enhancement or something like that – to the tune of that – so, ah, maybe that person can carry that forth, but, ah, just basically almost so simple… NP: Yeah, exactly. That’s what I like about it. It’s so simple – it doesn’t have to be so complicated and the only thing I’m thinking might be added in here is that there would be for the game animal an incidental take license for – in case in the lands that are, you know, they might find some little thing, you know, they go, oh, no, no – there’s a native species here… RK: Well, it’s just to make a simple argument for your game management, so, you know… Some of the other places that have been talked about – there exist native species sensitivities – so if you kind of remove that – like go to places that don’t even have that \[unclear\] there – why would an environmentalist or someone that has environmental decision making power – why would they want to oppose you at that point – cause their argument doesn’t hold water at that point and if they still oppose you then it’s probably that they don’t like hunting at all… NP: Exactly… RK: ….which I can say has been the sentiment that I’ve run into, so, um, as a hunting community I just feel like if they can rally behind things that are easier wins – so to speak for lack of a better term – maybe that’ll put their energy into something that’s fruitful \[unclear\] lot of waving your arms and emotion for not a whole lot of gain or not much good argument. NP: Yeah, thank you. May I ask your permission to include this with our letter as an attachment? RK: Um, yeah, you could but know that – when you when you talk about Mauna Kea that’s – I don’t feel – to the content that I gave you – I don’t feel my content would accurately describe Mauna Kea. NP: I see. No, no, the letter is \[unclear\] state land - all GMAs – the letter is about all GMAs… RK: OK, yeah, so all GMAs that, yeah, should have some kind of land policy, right? What is it? Is the land… NP: Yeah… RK: ….\[unclear\] native species or is the land policy mixed use or… 31 NP: To me this is a policy – I agree with you – it’s excellent policy. If you would let us use this as an attachment, um, and I would like to ask if we could make a motion to include it with our letter? Yes? RK: Yes. NP: Thank you so much. So would anyone like to make a motion that we include this game management plan with our letter? AA: Abraham-District 5 – I make a motion to \[unclear\] the letter. NP: Thank you, Abraham. Anybody want to second? SM: Second… NP: Stanly Mendes second. All in favor? Joe says we need to do a roll call again. \[The ayes have it\] JK: So make the record clear. Motion is approved with six \[unclear\]… Elections NP: Yes, perfect. Thank you, Joe. And thank you, Ryan. And did anyone have any comments as I neglected to pause for any comments from the public so far, OK, so, um, great. So I guess then we’ll move right along because we’re running out of time. So my term is coming to an end with GMAC. My term ends December and in December will be the last meeting of my term so if anybody out there knows anyone in District 4 who would like to apply for my district I would really appreciate spreading the word for me, um, and on that note I would like to ask Joe if he would help us with elections. First of all, I would like to ask if among the commissioners if anyone’s interested in the position of chair or if anyone has recommendations for chair? If not, I have recommendation. I would like to recommend Abraham Antonio for chair. Would you like to take a vote on that for me? Would you like to help me with elections? ?: Can somebody unmute my mic I cannot hear what’s going on… JK: You know, you can have somebody else or… NP: OK. Well, Malia did it for us the last time that’s why… JK: Yeah, OK. NP: OK. JK: \[Unclear\] 32 NP: Can I ask somebody? JK: Yeah, so somebody can make the motion… Somebody else can make the motion. NP: That we have a vote… Kean, would you like to \[unclear\]… ?: \[Unclear\] NP: And so you ask who would vote for Abraham. OK, Stanley you vote for Abraham. Kean votes for Abraham. Grayson votes for Abraham, George votes for Abraham. Wow, Abraham – it looks like you’re the chair. Can you hear me? You there? AA: No, I cannot hear. NP: Congratulations. So on that… JK: \[Unclear\] ?: So that’s chair after you leave? NP: As of the end of my term…. JK: So for the record – let it be noted that… ?: I’m sorry – can my Mike be muted I cannot hear. JK: I’m sorry if you cannot hear but for the record five ayes. The motions has been approved. NP: OK. And there were five. JK: Yes. NP: So on that – so now we don’t have a vice chair cause Abraham was our vice chair. So would anybody like to recommend someone for vice chair – anyone want to volunteer as vice chair? IF not, I would like to recommend Stanley Mendes as vice chair, um, so want to make a motion… ?: I’ll make a motion. \[Unclear\] NP: OK. So Kean do you want to vote for Stanley for vice chair? Aye. Abraham? Aye. Grayson? Yes. George? Aye. So that’s five. 33 JK: So for the record it was five ayes. The motion approved. COMMITTEE REPORTS NP: Great. Motion approved. Perfect. Thank you, Joe. We’re making really good progress tonight so then we can \[unclear\] if there are any committee reports at this time? REPORTS BY DISTRICT: NP: And then any reports by district? If not, if there aren’t any more comments or questions from the public then… SM: Stanley-District 1 – I’m trying to get rule change for Puuanahulu for \[unclear\]… NP: That’s a committee report. SM: I’ve been talking to \[unclear\] in Honolulu. NP: Can you explain a little more? SM: I want to extend the season for Puuanahulu from March through July. NP: Want to ask Kanalu about that? SM: I asked him… NP: Oh so… SM: Have to go through a rule change, so… NP: Oh, so, Stanley has put in a request that there be a rule change for an extension of the hunting season in Puuwaawaa, Puuanahulu… ADJOURMENT ?: Somebody got to make the motion… NP: Oh, that’s right. I forgot… Anybody want to make a motion that we adjourn the meeting… ?: \[Unclear\] adjourn the meeting at 8:27p… NP: OK. OK. We’re good now, we’re good… ?: \[Unclear\] 34 JK: Take a vote… NP: Oh… JK: \[Unclear\] \[They ayes have it\] 35