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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-01-19 Game Management Advisory Commission MinutesGame Management Advisory Commission County of Hawai'i Minutes Meeting Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 Time: 6:30pm Place: Hawai'i County Building, and West Hawaii Civic Center, Mayor's Conference Rooms - Via WebEx 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:30pm Stanley Mendes, District 1— present Kean Umeda, District 2 — present Vacant, District 3 Naniloa Pogline, District 4 — present Abraham Antonio, District 5 - present Grayson Hashida, District 6 — present Vacant, District 7 Vacant, District 8 George Donev, District 9 — present Quorum Established GUESTS: Kanalu Sproat, DLNR West Hawai'i Wildlife Biologist Mark Crivello of 3C Goat Grazing Nelson Rapanot, State GMAC Representative for Molokai STAFF: John Mukai, Corporation Counsel Pomai Bartolome, Executive Assistant to Mayor Barett Otani, Executive Assistant to Mayor Roth Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist Mayor's Kona Office AA: Good evening everybody — let's call this meeting to order — the time right now is 6:30p. First on the agenda is the approval of minutes from December 15, 2020. 1 BK: Chair, Roll Call first. AA: Ok. BK: You all know that we have vacancies in District 3, 7, and 8 and we have District 4 pending Council confirmation regarding Brian Ley. So as far as staff – do we have our new attorney – John Mukai? JM: Yes, here. BK: And then we have Barett Otani, Mayor’s Office. BO: Here… BK: And Pomai – is Pomai attending as well…? AA: No, she’s not here right now. She came... PB: I’m here… BO: Barbara, Pomai is here… BK: OK. So we have three from staff here. OK. Great. So we have quorum. Welcome everyone. Go ahead Chair. AA: Thank you, Barbara. OK, approval of minutes December 15 meeting. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Action: A motion was made by N. Pogline to accept the December 15, 2020 minutes. Seconded by S. Mendes. Motion carried unanimously. 3. FINANCIAL REPORT: Action: A motion was made by S. Mendes to accept the Financial Report. Seconded by K. Umeda. Motion carried unanimously. 4. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC: 2 AA: Are there any statements from the public on tonight’s agenda? OK. Now we’re going on to our presentation from Wildlife West Side Hawaii Kanalu Sproat. He’ll be giving us a report on mutually beneficial game management strategies. So when you’re ready Kanalu you can go ahead. 5. PRESENTATION: a. West Hawaii DOFAW Wildlife Biologist Kanalu Sproat will give a report on mutually beneficial game management strategies KS: Aloha, and thank you for the opportunity to present today – my name is Kanalu Sproat – I’m the Wildlife Manager of the Department of Land and Natural Resources, Division of Forestry and Wildlife on Hawaii Island – I’m the West side of the Island based in Waimea – my presentation today is Can You Have Your Cake and Eat It Too?” Using non-native ungulates to protect threatened and native ecosystems and provide a professional, sustainable hunting program. This is an overview of just how the presentation is going to go – talk story about the history – the primary objective – what we think the threats are to those objectives and how we plan on mitigating and managing for those threats and then our next steps moving forward. The area is approximately 105,000 acres. There’s 3 land designations under DOFAW – there’s the Puuanahulu GMA (approximately 62,000 acres), the Puuwaawaa Forrest Reserve (approximately 40,000 acres) and the Puuwaawaa Forest Bird Sanctuary which is a little more than 3,000 acres. This is a general composition of the vegetative structure right now – it’s highly degraded over – we’ll talk story about why it’s degraded over the years of use – but about 3,000 acres are native forest and native shrub or barren lava and about 75,000 acres are non-native forest cover, non-native shrub and grass. There’s quite a bit of the area has been degraded over time. The reason it’s degraded is because of the historical use as a livestock grazing area for almost 150 years of the area has been a cattle ranch or some sort of livestock ranch and in the 1960s it was – a forty year lease was signed with Dillingham Ranch for the entire 105,000 acres. That lease was transferred over to Mr. Bonnet in 1972 and in 1984 a large section was removed from the lease because of illegal koa harvesting – and then about 3800 acres was set-aside to become the Forest Bird Sanctuary. In 2000 – that lease ended and so when that lease ended the lands eventually were transferred over to 3 DOFAW. At the time, the Puuwaawaa Advisory Council was formed. We started surveys for endangered plants and animals and then finally, 18 years later the Executive Order was signed to create that sanctuary. A year later a draft management plan that was drafted by the Puuwaawaa Advisory Council was taken to the Board of Land and Natural Resources and then finally Puuanahulu was designated as a game management area in 2006. The Puuwaawaa Advisory Council consists of community members, ohanas from the aina, inter-agency members and other users of the area and the Council is designed as consultative organization to us. They drafted a management plan that was approved in concept by the Board of Land and Natural Resources in 2003 to manage in an ahupuaa structure from mauka to makai and they developed 62 integrative objectives to kind of be all encompassing to manage the area for the different uses that took place there. The primary goal of the plan – is to protect and restore the native habitat and protect the fifteen endangered plant species and the one endangered moth that are found there. The main threats that have been identified to achieving those goals are wildlife fire, ungulate depredation and invasive weeds. The majority of the rest of this talk is going to be talking about wildland fire because it is by far the greatest thing is a threat to the perpetuation and preservation of those species and of the forest that remains. As grasses invade – they’re more prone to fire and to carrying fire into the forest and as the forest is lost because of fire the grasses are more capable of reestablishing and so there’s more grass which causes – which is conducive to more fire which removes more of the forest and this is just a vicious cycle and then we see that unfortunately first hand here. This is a picture from the – I think the last 18,000 acre fire we had a couple of years ago in – that started in Waikoloa and went to Puuanahulu. And just to drive home just that the devastating effects of fire – in 1985 there was a board submittal to create a natural area reserve within Puuwaawaa area – it was about 3,000 acres that they wanted to set aside to be – to create a NAR (Natural Area Reserve) and so there are some before and after pictures from the board submittal to now – there was a kauila lama forest – as you can see – there was grass already growing within the forest but there was a fork structure that the State felt was quality enough to create a NAR but unfortunately within a year or two of that board submittal there was fires and all that we pretty much have left is a fountain of – or a sea of fountain grass – so fire- I mean, we see it firsthand there – fire is the greatest threat. 4 And so there have been multiple research projects in the area to address the best ways to manage for that and the best ways that we can protect the forest that remains. Blackmore and Vitousek in 2000 published a paper where they analyzed aerial imagery from almost 50 years – from the 1950s to the 1990s and they qualified the change in forest structure over that time and then they also created a model based on fuel load levels on how fire can and will respond to the different grass types and they basically concluded that even as grazing causes gradual declines in forest cover – however, it protects forests from rapid loss to destructive fires are reducing the ability of grass fuels to carry fire – they also concluded that grazing in drier area reduces the risk of fire not only by controlling the accumulation of fuels but also by controlling the spread of more flammable ground species. Wada et. al. 2017 – they did a cost analysis of what it would of cost to manually control invasive grasses in Puuwaawaa and they concluded that it would be about 4.6 million dollar a year just to go and cut grass, which we all cut grass way too much. And then also Castillo in 2007 – they compared three different treatment types and combinations of those treatment types – they applied herbicide, prescribed berms and grazing in Puuanahulu and they completed that grazing is a very cost effective tool for fuel and management. It’s real simple – get the grasses down and fire’s less likely to spread and using animals to do the work for you is going to be a lot cheaper than paying somebody to do it – contracting it out. And after 2000 when the long term lease ended the grazing didn’t completely phase out – we just stopped that long term lease so we continue to have grazing on an annual access permit basis and so we can see that in those areas where there’s appropriate stocking rate there have been very few fires and then we’ve also recently completed a 5 million dollar CIP project – water improvement project – and because of the good rains in the last couple years we’ve – talking to the rancher – he thinks that we’ve captured and are storing an additional 7 million gallons on top of the 8 million that was already there – whatever it was – but quite a bit of water that we’re storing which will increase our capability to move cattle to different areas, especially below the highway and hopefully as we’ve seen in the other areas minimize the risk of fire. And finally, just across from – so the map shows from 1975 to 2011 – just that there have been fires that have happened in the area historically – but going through our records I was able to find between 2006 – so the last 14 years – 2006 to present – in the areas where we have 5 appropriate stocking rate of cattle – there’ve been only 3 acres worth of fires – cost us about $10,000 to control those fires whereas in all the other areas there’s been about 25,000 that have burned and a million dollars in cost for us to fight those fires. That’s a 1% of the cost in the areas where we have appropriate stocking rates of cattle. So ungulates obviously are still a threat to those endangered plants and to the natural system on a whole – and so the way we found on mitigating for that is to fence as much of the high quality forest as we can and propose approximately 8,000 acres of fences – much of that has already been built and within those fences remove all ungulates – there’s about 80% of the known endangered plants are found within there and then we would mitigate for any of the plants outside of the fences that we would consider taken inside the fences and then finally, I mean, pretty simple within the fences also control for the spread of invasive weeds using manual control. Now getting to the can you have your cake and eat it too? We have a very convincing, in my opinion, case study of ungulates protecting the native system by grazing and keeping fuel loads down but outside of those fences that are proposed like I said – there’s 75,000 acres of highly degraded land that we are already considering anything outside of those fences taken and lost anyways. And so that’s where the question is. Can you have your cake? Can you protect the native systems while also providing a perpetual and sustainable hunting program of species that are a threat to that system? Unfortunately, there are no easy answers and it is something that we are working on internally as an agency and we will continue to hopefully make progress towards finding an answer to that question. Mahalo Nui. If you have any questions you can contact me from my email at the beginning of the presentation. A hui hou. AA: Do any of our members have questions for Kanalu? SM: Stanley from District 1. So when you talk about you fencing the areas where get the most endangered stuff and trees – so the acres where don’t have – that’s where – basically is where we going be able to hunt and the game be in that areas? KS: So when the plan was first put together, you know, twenty years ago and everybody meeting together – yes, that is the idea that they’re going to fence a small portion of the area with the highest quality forest – remove 6 animals from within those fences – and then outside of the fences, in theory, you can have these mammals and manage for that, like I said at the end of the presentation, internally, there are some – we’re not in a consensus yet about that part of it – and so we’re still working towards, I guess, towards finding an acceptable answer to that. But at the beginning – so this is long before I got there, right, I’ve been with DOFAW for about almost 7 years and they’ve been doing this since early 2000s, so in theory, yes, that was the goal, but as administrations change and different managers come in and different understandings about our laws, I guess, take place – it just hasn’t gotten to that point yet, I guess, so that \[unclear\] idea – we’re still trying to figure out if that’s legal and how to make it work. SM: So in those areas could you enhance anything, I mean, plant stuff that the animals would go to instead of going by the endangered plants? KS: Like to lead them away from the plants possibly? SM: Yeah, yeah… KS: Yeah, that’s still part of the discussion about what we’re legally allowed to do or not unfortunately so that was the idea – not necessarily to lead them away, I mean, the whole idea is that you’re going to fence the good forest and then within those fences anything outside that was lost would be replaced within the fences – and next replace I think it’s like 3 to 1. So that was the idea behind the plan but we’re not there yet. SM: Thank you. AA: Kanalu – Abraham – District 5. So how’s you guys replanting program doing now that you guys replanting in some of the fenced areas? KS: What are they doing? AA: No, how,is it doing? KS: Oh, you know, I think Elliott Parsons would be the best person to talk about that cause he kind of leads that project. Some of the areas they’re doing 7 very well. I’m not sure about all of them – I don’t know enough details about all of them but in a couple of the areas they’re doing very well. AA: So in the areas that are doing well – is there a time later in the future that, you know, you guys make enough plants that maybe you can re-establish the game back in those area or just like once you guys get those plants off the list – cause plants grow pretty quick? I suppose… So can you… KS: Oh, I’ll be honest with you – I don’t think that would be an end goal to try and put animals back in the fenced units. It’s more likely, in the long term, that if they are continue to be successful and restore within those fences is good – but that’s like really long term, like 40-50 years. It would be more likely that maybe you would expand your fences outside of that to restore your habitat outside of the fences and so the short answer to that – I don’t think – that’s not part of the plan – I don’t think that would happen to a point where we’ll now let animals back within the fences. AA: Well, is basically the question that you kinda – I was going more towards what you just kind of answered – once you guys get one area that’s growing good and stuff then you guys just will fence more and keep on going. But at one point, let’s say fifty years down the line, like you said, will the fences all be removed or the fences will just going to be stay there in the forest? KS: No, I mean, there should be some sort of maintenance on the fencing where you’re keeping it up to throughout the fifty years and you’re replacing and fixing and keeping the fences… AA: My thing is if the forest is going so good why you going to still need the fence in the forest in the good areas – then you’re expanding more out and more out, you know what I mean? KS: Yeah, yeah, no, I understand what you’re saying – there’s probably going to be after my life is over… AA: Yeah, might still, no worry. So what’s the numbers of the black moth like is that population getting better also or is that population staying down like the palila or what? 8 KS: I don’t know exact numbers, I apologize, I do know that they were recovering – that they were actually considered to be down listed but I think in the last little bit, I don’t know exactly – I think in the last little bit and maybe their recovery has slowed – so they haven’t continued to increase. We have a State entomologist – her name is Cynthia King – she runs that project and would know more details about it but I do know that, like I said, it was increasing for a little while – it was hopeful that maybe we could down, maybe not delist completely but it’s down listed to threatened instead of endangered but we didn’t get to that point yet. AA: So it would be more so the plants being the priority than the moth because the moth is doing well then, right, kinda, you know, getting better. Because threatened and endangered would fall under two different rules, right? KS: \[Unclear\] something we need to consider. AA: Endangered and threatened is two different rules, right? KS: No, they just have different priorities for how they receive funding from the federal government. Basically, same rules – same laws apply – same protections apply – but when we try to receive funding from the federal government to do management they prioritize differently, if that makes sense. AA: Yeah, that makes sense. And as far as like the eradication part of getting all of the ungulates out or whatever – instead of eradication and everybody brought this up to you before – can’t there be a number where it’s more manageable number where you guys can use our resources instead of ungulates to control the grasses or weeds that you guys encountering – instead of taking ‘em all just bring ‘em down to a lower number that can support out gathering. KS: Within the fences – we propose about 8,000 acres worth of fences, right? AA: Yeah. 9 KS: Within the fences we would take the number down to zero and outside of the fences allow for – well, for right now – just let the animals go. Right now we’re not allowed to manage for an increase of game mammals anywhere. AA: Right. KS: The idea from the plan was to get to a point where we could manage for more mammals outside of those fenced units but in the fence zero, outside the fence trying to manage for more, but right now the goal is still in the fence is zero and then outside right now is just kind of maintain the hunting that we have and, yeah, so the short answer is in the fences is the goal is always zero. If there’s animals within the fences, I mean, there’s probably some small numbers that maybe won’t cause that much damage, but it’s not really worth trying to monitor and maintain like two animals or whatever it is. Then it’s easier and you’re going to be more successful in your out plantings and your ability to allow the forest to restore itself with no animals in side. SM: Stanley again. So in the fenced areas after the animals are out – what is the plan to keep the grasses down? KS: Yeah, so, there was only like 2 slides and they probably only took up about 30 seconds but within the fences we’ll still do manual control of weeds so and use some herbicides so weed whacking, hand clip and trim – within the fenced units we do that. For the most part, within those fences we should have already some of the best forest with not as much weed dominance, especially when compared to the outside, but we would still need to do hand clearing and manual (manual removal or manual control – something of that nature) of weeds. SM: Because like that sanctuary above, I mean, it’s all overgrown with fountain grass and all kind weeds in there – banana poka. So I don’t… KS: Yeah, it’s a big project – there’s a lot of facets and definitely takes a lot of effort to try to get it all done. 10 AA: Yeah, so, then it goes back to the cost wise, you know, and then goes back to also instead of zero number just have another low number and then when it’s something you guys can manage the resources in the fenced area versus the cost of going in and maintain with weed whackers and Roundup and all that – what does that cost? KS: Yeah, I think within the fenced units, I mean, once again the fenced units right now is there’s only about I think 4,000 or 4,500 acres that are fenced. So it’s an additional 35 on top of that – compared to the entire area that’s 105,000 acres – because the fenced areas are such a small percentage of the total area – I don’t think it’s unreasonable to remove completely the animals from within those fences and then allow the animals outside the fences. AA: OK. NP: Nani here. Kanalu I want to thank you for the research you’ve been doing \[unclear\] that’s some really great information you put together and I’m excited about any kind of openness there might be to the use of game animals as a tool in fire and weed control. That’s really an encouraging research for me and I want to thank you for your part in it. Thank you so much. KS: You’re welcome. ?: And on your research will you guys be able to use it on other parts of the Island? Or is that just designated to one area? KS: I mean, the cool thing to me is those peer reviewed scientific articles are – I had nothing to do with them and the cool thing about them is that they were all done specifically in the areas that we’re trying to get this management done so it’s pretty cool. Could they use in other areas? Possibly… We’re trying to see if they could be used in this area yet... ?: So this draft habitat conservation plan for Puuwaawaa and Puuanahulu back in 2015 is kinda what you guys basing it off of too or? 11 KS: Yeah, so the HCP was so – the management plan that was drafted by the Puuwaawaa Advisory Council in 2005 that went to the Board and was approved in concept – the HCP was meant to be the compliance documentation so we have – the plan was approved in concept which means OK we like the idea but you need to make sure that you still follow the laws that govern these actions and the main law that we’re trying to make sure we follow is that there can be no take on endangered species and it has been interpreted by administration and by other people in the field that the presence of animals at all on the landscape constitutes the take of those endangered species. So we’re trying to figure out a way to – and that’s why this has taken so long and why it hasn’t progressed I guess to where I hoped it would be as well as other managers before me thought it would get to is because trying to find that, I guess that balance where you know that legal framework that allows us to do that – to have any increase in game and that is proving to be quite a bit of a challenge. GH: Kanalu – this is Grayson. Great presentation. I have a quick question – have you lost any of your fenced areas to fire so far? KS: We had a small fire in one of our fenced units about three years ago and it was like a ¾ acre fire. We got to it quickly. I do know that we’ve had two fires in Puuwaawaa makai and we have two small fences on the makai side of the road that you can see right by the highway and because we maintain a fire break around those fenced units they were saved – they did not burn. So as far as losing – not that I’m aware of – we haven’t lost any – we’ve lost a little bit of acreage in a couple of the units but not the units completely. GH: Another question – do you think that the argument for fire prevention is the best way for game management to move forward with more hunting in \[unclear\] these areas? KS: Is it the best way? I want to say yes, but we haven’t had success using it yet. \[Unclear\]. It seems to me the most logical way, but, yeah, we have a lot of weeds there – it’s been not much success with any argument advocating for game management or an increase in game. 12 GH: You mentioned how the ungulates threatened the native forest – is that more specific to the native plants that they’re able to eat and reach and therefore the larger plants are protected if the animals can’t reach up and eat them – is that basically what you’re saying? KS: The answer to that – so in the immediate from the proximate – whatever it is – \[unclear\] yes, but because they’re eating the understory they’re allowing for grasses to invade – that that allows grasses to then invade into the forest – non-native grasses, right? And non-native grasses are much more fire prone so then that allows the fire to tear into the forest and so it’s just kind of multiple levels going on with that. So it’s kind of – all in – just in general they’re a threat. GH: Thank you so much Kanalu. KS: You’re welcome. AA: Anyone else got questions or comments for Kanalu? BL: Brian Ley here. I got a couple questions. Has anybody ever done any research on game bird spreading native seeds? To find out… I mean has anybody even seen if these game birds are seed spreaders or seed destroyers? KS: I’m not – I’ve not seen anything like that. BL: No reports, nobody’s done any studies whatsoever on this? KS: Not that I’ve seen, I’m sorry, yeah… BL: OK. The other thing, I hunted that area, you know that quite well and I was kind of really disturbed after the last fire that the State went in with D-9s and went through there and just decimated native trees to create all these fire breaks. Seems kind of counter-productive that we’re killing all these game animals so we can put in 30-40’ fire breaks that fill in with weeds and everything else, I mean, big mature ohia trees were just knocked down and 13 pushed off to the side – did you guys figure in how many – what percent of native forest was destroyed for protecting ‘em. KS: I do know that when we send our operators out into the field they are given direction on what to avoid but sometimes that gets lost in translation between managers and operators and I don’t want to throw anybody under the bus because operators they know how to do their job better than I do – and so that is definitely – it is something that we consider and we do have – I guess \[unclear\] where we discuss with our operators, hey, you took out these trees and you should not have or sometimes but we do \[unclear\] accept that sometimes there are going to be – there will be some loss to some of the forest structure in the longer term effort to try to protect it. But I don’t know – I don’t have a number to say, oh, there were this many trees as a percentage removed or lost. BL: One last thing – just to be a pain in the butt, like you know I always am – hey, is there some reason we can’t take the wild cattle that you guys are bound and determined to eradicate and put those in that area that you were going to put commercial cattle so we can hunt ‘em and we can keep the areas open cause I know when you guys lease out to the cattle thing – the hunters kind of get the short end of the stick – which is understandable – I don’t need stampeding cattle, you know, from the dogs and everything, but, I mean, if we’ve got wild cattle why can’t we implement those and use ‘em since you guys are already planning on putting cattle in there and running water – why we couldn’t use wild cattle and hunt ‘em? KS: That’s not a question I \[unclear\] that one of the reasons that we are using cattle and specifically a rancher that can manage the cattle – while they are a larger animal and do more damage to the forest if let loose they’re also easier to contain because the fencing to keep cattle where you want them is a lot cheaper than fencing in goats or sheep or even pigs where you want them. So they’re a little more easy for us to control and move where you want them to move to eat those grasses and keep the fuel loads down. So that’s something I can ask – I don’t think that would happen \[unclear\]. SM: Good luck trying to get the wild cattle… 14 ?: You going to go and catch those cattle and then truck ‘em where you going truck ‘em. AA: OK. Anybody else for Kanalu? NP: I have one last comment. You know, if the development of fire breaks can take native species without a take license couldn’t the game animals – whatever they take – have a take license of some sort? So that any impact… KS: Ah, the… Sorry, sorry… NP: Yeah, it just seems like it would be fair to the animals that they would have a little leeway like the development of fire breaks as leeway to take. KS: The incidental take license is only for endangered species and so when we create our fire breaks we do go out and survey those fire breaks to look for anything that is endangered and avoiding any take of anything endangered. The creation of a fire break, though, falls under and exemption to those rules and so even if by accident we did take an endangered plants because we were creating a fire break we would be exempt and basically, we’re allowed to do that under the exemption… But we’re not allowed to have game mammal management under any exemption. NP: But since they’re valuable in limiting fire fuel maybe in the future there could be a possibility they may have some exemption as well – is my hope. KS: OK. We’re trying to get to something maybe like that… NP: Thank you. AA: Kanalu, last two. Abraham – District 5. Back in 2018 I think or maybe it was even 2019 you guys did a tour of Puuwaawaa. Are you guys planning on doing something like that again maybe after this Coronavirus thing? KS: Like a tour for the public? AA: Yeah, I think you guys had one, right, like a couple years back. 15 KS: We’ve done a couple different ones, mostly that was because we were moving toward trying to get the HCP done and so I know we invited the GMAC a few years ago to come and do a site visit. We invited some other partner agency members to come and do a site visit. We don’t have a plan to do another one but if your GMAC is interested after all this pandemic stuff – we probably could organize something. AA: OK. Sounds good. And the last one was the zero count – so what you guys doing with the resources that you guys catching within the fencing? You guys just throwing ‘em over the fence or you guys just eliminating – dispatching them altogether? KS: So mostly we try to push them out first – so we actually just did finish a small fenced unit right below the reservoir and we did use a helicopter and we pushed out I think between 50-60 sheep from that fenced unit and I think there was like 3 or 4 left and so those last few we did use staff time to go and remove. But for the most part, we are trying to just push them out into the adjoining area that’s not fenced before we do any staff removals. AA: Right on. OK. Thank you, Kanalu, have a good night. KS: No problem. AA: Thanks for all your guys hard work, ah, Kanalu? KS: Sorry, I was asked, I don’t know if it’s not on the agenda maybe I can’t talk about it but somebody did ask me to have numbers ready to just discuss briefly about our trapping on Mauna Kea and bycatch – our predator control on Mauna Kea. Is that something – it’s just real fast I can share numbers if you guys are interested. AA: Ah, yeah, you can share ‘em..maybe we save ‘em for next time Kanalu. KS: OK. I can. So on the next one I’ll just send you guys – it’s like two slides that just has the numbers and then we can talk story about that. 16 b. Mark Crivello of 3C Goat Grazing will give an update on successful pilot programs using goats for invasive weed control in Puuwaawaa fire breaks, and weed clearing at archeological sites on Alii Drive AA: Yeah, sounds good Kanalu. Thank you. Going down the agenda – we get Mark Crivello from 3C Goat Grazing. He’s going to update us on his successful wonderful job that him and his animals are doing. Are you live, Mark? MC: I’m here, how you guys doing? AA: Good. MC: Can you guys hear me? AA: We can hear you – you can go forward… MC: OK. Good evening everybody I’m Mark with 3C Goat Grazing. Just wanted to tell you guys a little bit about the success that we have with the fire breaks with the goats and sheep. Our \[unclear\] was successful – the animals was able to graze that hillside at – it was pretty treacherous – I don’t recommend any man going on top that hill with a weed whacker or anything like that – might break your neck but, um, the animals did a great job grazing on that firebreak. Yeah, then, ah, \[unclear\] on my next project did once again, doing a great job. I wish I could tell you guys more about that one but we’re not really completed with the project yet but – right now they’re just doing an amazing job and I just love seeing that the most instead of herbicides. Sorry, I know that is a quick one like that – anybody got any questions you guys want to ask – about how the project’s doing. AA: Yeah, Abraham – District 5. So that areas is – that’s all within State land or is that County or is that private where you guys was? MC: Oh, I’m sorry about that. That Puu O’o project that is State land – that is a firebreak for the State to help controlling fire going up to Pukalani Subdivision. \[Unclear\] it’s just a County job that we’re doing, yeah, so, sorry about that… 17 AA: Yeah, Kanalu, you get something? KS: Yeah, I get one question Mark, howzit? MC: Eh, howzit, how you’re doing? KS: All right. How many sheep and goats you had inside that fenced unit? MC: Inside that unit right there I had 102 goats and the sheep fluctuated – at the beginning I had, oh, was 140 sheep and then at the end part I downsized it to 76. KS: So how much animals you had within the unit within a day? MC: In a day, well, see what I did was break down the units, of course, just we do the intensive grazing so – it’s about an acre paddock \[unclear\] so we had about 180 head in that range – it varies cause some places was really thick with fountain grass so they were in there about a week, two weeks or so. KS: OK. So about 1-2 weeks per acre and 170-180 animals \[unclear\]… Ten acres \[unclear\] of the area. MC: Yes… Oh, on the top of my head I not too sure. Pretty much they could have \[unclear\] mailbox in \[unclear\]. KS: \[Unclear\] How long were they in there? MC: \[Unclear\] warm up. ?: Almost long enough it look like residency. KS: So three months? MC: Yes. In that range. Sorry, I don’t have… KS: No worry… 18 MC: Cause \[unclear\]. KS: I got one more question. I already know the answer to this question but what was the cost? MC: Oh, I’m sorry, on the top of my head I’m not too sure. KS: \[Unclear\] we pay you? MC: I’m not too sure. KS: OK. MC: \[Unclear\] KS: I think was about $9,000.00 dollars or does that sound way off? MC: \[Unclear\] KS: OK. So about like almost $900 - $1,000 dollars an acre, yeah? MC: Yes. KS: But from reports and from what I’ve seen it looks they did a really good job, yeah? MC: Thank you so much, I appreciate. KS: Roger, OK, thanks, just some questions I had. MC: Right on and thank you and thank you for that awesome presentation you gave… KS: Working on it… AA: Eh, Kanalu, Abraham – thanks for taking all my questions… 19 KS: OK… AA: Yeah, Mark, Brian Ley got a couple questions for you… BL: Hey, Mark, Brian Ley. Hey, I go a question just out of curiosity – have you ever done like a vegetation survey cause I had one goat and what I was doing is I would stake him and see what his preference and after so long, I mean, they had first preference, second preference, third preference and usually to get to where they were eating the native plants was usually there was hardly anything left. Have you ever done anything like that out there on the field to say, this vegetation is taken out first and if we leave them too long then they start on next, cause I know, you know, it’s like going to the buffet table – you go to the good stuff first – and then you work down to the other stuff. Have you ever done anything like that? MC: Um, no, DOFAW studies \[unclear\] how long it takes them to eat it, most \[unclear\] jobs is more like they want \[technical difficulties\] vegetation out so, \[unclear\] graze and pretty much wipe everything out. But with the, how can I say it, we try to utilize different animals in different places due to the vegetation \[unclear\]. BL: OK, ‘cause, yeah, like I know like fountain grass is usually like the last resort if – you know what I’m saying. When there’s other stuff they usually prefer… MC: \[Technical difficulties\] like, of course, like I mentioned they have this – how I like to use my terms is they have their steaks, they have their Vienna sausage so most of the time I do my intensive grazing so they kind of pick their steaks not their Vienna sausage. So with the – how can I put it – yeah, I’m sorry, I never did a study like how you’re asking. BL: OK, yeah, I was just curious and like you say if we had ten goats per acre it would – first thing they would do is get this and then if we moved them they would not touch the other stuff. Just out of curiosity, I’m just always looking at things like that. 20 MC: Well, no, that is – how can I put it – the way you saying it is correct – if you don’t overgraze the place, of course, they may just eat their steaks not their Vienna sausage, which you can – that’s all about the managing of the land. So if I’m working on my pasture with them, of course, I’m not going to over eat the vegetation – I’ll watch exactly how much number of head has to go in that paddock – how long they have to go – even \[unclear\] take cuttings of the grass and do my calculations on how much head I can put into – how much dry matter I have in the field that I want them to eat. BL: OK. Thank you… AA: Anybody else get comments or questions for Mark? NP: I have a comment, Mark. Nani – District 4. I really appreciate that the job you’re doing in creating data – good information about the potential of goats and sheep and exactly what we’re talking about tonight – weed and fire control – and so thank you for the good job you’re doing up there and also, using your goats and sheep to clear steep cliffs where nobody else can – like can’t weed whack – and, of course, you know, nobody wants broad use of herbicide either – so thank you for the work you’re doing – you’re eliminating the use of herbicides with your services and then, of course, your services cost money but then if the wild goat and sheep do it – then they have a good deal, right, on grass and weed control. Thank you, Mark, appreciate you coming on tonight. MC: Oh, you’re welcome and thank you guys, sorry I’m a little unprepared, I wasn’t totally ready for this so I apologize but, yes, and on the same thinking as you, Nani, I would love to see these wild game \[unclear\] jobs that we do – I think it’ll be beneficial for the whole ecosystem, you know, from the forest down to the wild fires and everything, they can help stable out and I hope one day we can see this happen. AA: Ian Cole – you have a question for Mark? IC: Do you have an average rainfall year – what would you anticipate and I know you’ve only started up there at Puuwaawaa but, like your return – how many times a year do you think you would have to go back to keep it 21 maintained. It’s just grazing so it grows back. So, curious if you had a guesstimation for rate of return to get back in there? MC: Thank you for that question. That one is really hard for me to say right now due to I was working in Hilo for many years and it’s my first experience coming out more the west side and I’m getting to learn how the vegetation works on this side and I’m noticing if you guys do have a dry spell to return it would be awhile but once you guys got rain it’s amazing how your grass just blossoms overnight. So, I really can’t answer that one now – I wish I could. IC: Yeah, thanks. I figured it kind of depended on how wet the season was but I didn’t know if you had a ballpark – if you’d done other work in the West Hawaii or whatever. I know fountain grass, when it rains, it grows really dang fast. MC: Yeah, it grows little bit too fast. I would estimate it to be maybe about, oh, if you really want to keep it down I would look at maybe about a 90-day rotation or something. IC: Cool. Thank you. AA: OK. Right on, Mark. MC: You’re welcome… AA: Thanks for your presentation. You want to share with the public your Instagram and Facebook so they can see all the beautiful work that you’re animals have been doing? MC: Yes, please check us out on Facebook, 3C Goat Grazing, and we also have an Instagram page too which is Modern Shepherd. Yeah, please come check us out, you guys can see our projects as they unfold and see the beautiful progress the goats and sheep do. AA: Right on. Thank you. MC: And thank you guys so much for having me. 22 c. State GMAC representative for Molokai, Nelson Rapanot, will speak on the need for improvement in the State GMAC and the game issues on Molokai AA: Thanks, again, for all work that you and your animals do, Mark. OK. Moving on down to the agenda to presentation C – State GMAC Representative Nelson, will speak on the need for the improvements of the State GMAC. NR: Well, first of all – I was – I got put on the GMAC Board and I was told I get information from the hunters, I discuss them with DLNR and we figure solutions to solve these problems and it was nothing what I expected. I mean the first meeting I go to – put me in a chairs they says OK – representative of Molokai and all of sudden we voting on the issues that was there like two years ago – or a year ago – that I have no clue what we’re talking about or what they’re talking about and they want me to vote on this so, I’m thinking like this is kind of crazy – putting somebody in a seat who don’t know no issues of what’s going on and all of sudden you want me to vote on this. So, anyway, the best thing for do was to go with the majority – since, you know, the majority of the guys who was there for the last couple of years – but, I think the GMAC – and I told them this too – I says, the way I’ve been to almost a year now – I’ve been to these meeting with you guys – it seems like you guys using the commissioners as the scape goats to the public. When something goes wrong you’re going say, eh, your commissioners knew about ‘em. They approved the minutes or what have you and then they use da kine to scape goat. And, you know, the, thing is – we go there – I had couple concerns for issues for Molokai. So I voiced my issues, everything – and it says OK, you know what, we’ll send a DLNR to Molokai and then you can go discuss the issues with them and you can solve your problem or find solutions. So, I said, OK, sounds good – that’s about 1 year ago – until today – I received nobody here yet. So, I really, you know, I’ve been talking to Representative DeCoite, Senator English and they really say, you know, your position is really important to – you got a thing there and, you know, um, get used to these guys protocol or whatever you want to call them but – I tell you what – from day 1 till now – if you tell me pull one report on what happened or if anything got solved – I can put ‘em down in one sentence or one answer – nothing. So recently, we’ve been getting a lot deer issues on Molokai – so I called this guy Jason Omick he’s the guy 23 that kind of runs our meetings the GMAC – so I told him, you know, I think the best way for hold this meetings where each commissioner can voice their opinion and get something done if you guys gotta go to each individual island and have your meeting on our island instead of we coming to you guys and I get, I don’t know, eight or nine other commissioners – and really, I’ll tell you the truth – what goes on Big Island, what goes on Kauai or what goes on Maui – I don’t think I should be voting on their issues – that’s their issues – I gotta concentrate a lot on Molokai issues and DLNR got to do the same thing and that’s the reason I kind of suggested that they gotta do ‘em on each individual island and if they cannot accommodate my request maybe it’s time for me to step down because a whole year wasted my time nothing gets done. So some things need to be changed and that was my suggestion. SM: Stanley – District 1 – Nelson… First of all, I think DLNR not supposed to be on that board. This GMAC Commission is for the hunters not, your purpose is to advise them – they not supposed to be running any meeting. The GMAC is supposed to be like we run our meetings here – DLNR is invited like Kanalu was to give us presentations – they don’t run the meeting – we run the meeting so that’s how you guys supposed to run your guys meeting and forget about entertaining the DLNR. You guys supposed to be appointed… NR: They started this thing, that guy Jason Omick that works for DLNR he comes \[unclear\] everybody and kind of tells them how-what we want on the agenda if there’s any specific item on the agenda and they run the meeting… SM: That’s wrong then. NR: Well, \[unclear\] that. I kind of finding this out as we go along. You know, like I said – I get thrown in the seat and all of sudden when voting or stuff that was discussed like two, a year ago – like I don’t even know what they’re talking about, you know, and yeah, so, it’s nothing I thought was going be. SM: You guys not beholden to them. They beholden to you. The State GMAC was created for advising them – not the other way around so the meetings – you guys the ones – like we come up with the agenda here – who we going invite and stuff like that – and it’s what you guys are supposed to be doing – not 24 listening to these guys. So we, we trying to get one legislation going that, um, we take them out of the equation completely. And for you guys – so we going try that this year at the legislature. NR: No, I kind of like you guys layout on your meetings you guys hold the meetings and invite DLNR to come in and say their things and when they’re done, they’re done. But, yeah, our meeting is – as far as I was there the whole year is DLNR pretty much runs the meetings – our Chairman is Stan Ruidas from Lanai, but he’s basically following the lead of DLNR. SM: Yeah, and that’s the thing they are cherry picking who they want in there. We want hunters in there and they cherry picking and putting, um, they say hunter/environmentalists so that’s – hunters, fishermen, gatherers – that’s supposed to be who is on this commission. That was our intent when we bring this up to the legislator to create one State GMAC. So we gotta get ‘em out… NR: Yeah, like I say I’ve been there almost a year. I didn’t know anything more than what I knew when I first went to the meetings except everything is – the minutes – wait – and nothing gets done. So, really, in, as one commissioner, ah, there’s really nothing. I could have stayed home for a whole year or not even be on the commission and the same thing would have been, ah, get accomplished. And I kind of voiced my opinion of that to DLNR. I said, what the hell am I over here for? I got issues – you guys no do nothing about ‘em. You guys said you going do this you going do that – nothing happens so… I don’t really understand why the state wasting their money to pay me for go down and sit in a meeting that nothing gets done. SM: Yeah, well, one time they had one meeting up here on the Big Island and they came with their whole entourage from Honolulu and Dave Smith was the one sitting on that board/commission and all the commissioners voted to accept this thing and he lone vote says, oh, no… And so the whole thing got scrapped because of just so… We’re not there for them, they’re there for us. NR: Yeah, cause, I mean, you know, they say like you hold the meetings all in the DLNR office, you know, if it was for us I think we should be holding our 25 meetings to wherever we desire and they come to our meetings or we invite them to our meetings. SM: Yeah… Should be at least one meeting… NR: Like I said, I wasn’t too aware of the whole procedures so I’m kind of learning as we go along. SNR: Yeah, stick in there though… NP: So Nelson, this is Nani, District 4. So in a State GMAC meeting can you make a motion that say, for example, you would like some sort of action on Molokai on behalf of the deer? In our commission we can make a motion and then all the commissioners vote on it, whether they agree to it and then an action gets established that way. Do they not run the meeting like that? NR: Yeah, you probably could make a motion but like I said, you know, when they get their meetings, you know, you got all the different islands there, so they go through the agenda which really – I told them – this don’t even involve me – I could care less what you guys talking about right now – I concerned about Molokai – so they give you – everybody goes down at the end of the meeting kind of gives their concerns or recommendations to them and they kind of take notes of ‘em and then that’s where it ends – then the next meeting comes – we go over the minutes – we go through the same BS – take minutes again – vote for the minutes – and it just one big circle that nothing gets done – a waste of time – so that’s why I suggested if they can come to individual islands then we can sit down and we can talk to them with no other distractions with only Molokai on their mind – or if they’re Maui – just Maui – and Big Island just Big Island. And I think we can get their attention a lot easier that way and get something done, ah? SM: Yeah. NP: So the Chair, I’m sorry, excuse me… 26 JM: This is John Mukai, sorry, you know, the presentation was to speak on the need for improvements and I get it but I think we’re going a little far, you know, just kind of caution… AA: OK. Thanks, John. Brian, do you have any questions for Nelson because you’re interested in being a State GMAC… BL: Wow, yeah, Nelson, hey, thanks for hanging in there, I feel your pain, I’ve been trying for months to get on the State GMAC Council – it’s supposedly on Ige’s desk waiting for approval – pick somebody, but, hey, I just wanted to say I was going through, I’m kind of not happy with the DLNR as far as the Pittman-Robertson Act. I went through their 5-year plan and they’ve got scheduled 100 bales of hay – I think you need to find out what they’re doing with that 100 bales of hay and if they’ve got it marked down that you need it on Molokai to feed the deer – get the 100 bales of hay. It’s 153 pages of just ridiculous stuff that I think that we need to look into because the Pittman-Robertson money is supposed to be used for game management – not for buying tractors, 4-wheel drives and everything else that they have. I think we really need to look at the DLNR’s aspect as far as I don’t – maybe John could back me up on here but it seems like it is a misappropriation of federal funds cause that’s a special tax money that is earmarked for game management and I see no game management being used. Last year it was $8 million dollars – 3 million for fishing – 5 million for, you know, game animals – and I would like to know where that’s money’s being spent on – so maybe if we can get their attention they might sit up and pay attention if they’re looking at a lawsuit for misappropriation of funds. My two cents worth anyways… NR: No, I been, even like Molokai they got like – they just had approved for a 1.8 million dollar fencing. So when I talk to the DLNR on Maui I say, what is this all about – I haven’t heard this in any meetings or I haven’t heard nothing like this and they keep pointing a finger to someone else that whatever – so I said, you know, over there – Molokai – we all against fencing because all you guys do with the Nature Conservancy is fence and eradicate and that’s cut down the hunting area which DLNR was supposed to help preserve and preserve our resources not fence and kill ‘em off and you know they keep saying well it’s the watershed, the watershed – I said they’re protecting 27 watershed where there’s not even a problem on the East side of the Island. But, you know, that’s the kind stuff where I told them if I’m the GMAC representation for Molokai I feel you guys should inform me of – you guys let me vote on matters two or a year ago – when I come in to see you – you guys should inform me of what’s going on – I said I do this because it’s my passion – you guys doing for you guys getting paid brah – we actually paying you guys. You guys should inform me what’s going on – not just put me in a seat and then if something goes wrong you use me as an escape goat and not – that was one of my things opposed them to but, like I said, I’ll let you do research, like I guess how you did – you know, you get all this information brah - and I’m a working – I no more time for go do all that stuff – I like somebody like them – I told them – somebody like you guys can inform me. That’s their job – that’s the way I look at it. BL: Well, Brian Ley, again. Like I said, you know, I think it’s a shell game and I think if we start saying, where is this money actually coming from, you know, you’re not supposed to be using our resources money that’s a special task for eradicating our game animals – that’s not what the money’s for. We need to find out where this money’s coming from – cause we get the same thing – we can’t have a shooting range cause there’s no money – Pittman- Robertson Act of 8 million dollars allows for shooting ranges – why don’t we have shooting ranges – why don’t we have these things – the money is meant for the sportsmen, you know, your federal money for endangered species comes from something else… AA: Right. BL: Sorry… AA: Yeah, sorry, you going off topic again… BL: I’m on a rampage… Sorry… AA: So, um, as far as improvements – Nelson? Abraham – District 5… As far as improvements for the State GMAC – sounds like communication and, um, being led more by the people instead of the state, right? 28 NR: Right. And that’s the reason why I recommended or basically I told them the best way to get everybody on the same sheet of music is when you guys do a meeting – you do ‘em on Molokai and you guys no more nothing else to do but listen to me and when you go Maui you do the same thing and the different islands. And no distraction from the rest of the board. NP: Ah, Nani here… Nelson, I think your idea is really good and I think if there’s any way we can as a county GMAC over here get behind you, we don’t have a State GMAC representative for East Hawaii yet, it’s an empty seat – so we appreciate you kind of filling us in like this cause Ryan Kohatsu is keeping us updated and his term expired – but I think your idea of having meetings at each island and just dealing with that island at a time would be so much more efficient, actually could get something done – so we hope you can be heard with this idea. I think it’s a really great idea. If there’s any way that we could write a letter to the State GMAC encouraging your idea, anything we can do to help would be great. Yeah, but… NR: Yeah, I think that guy Jason Omick he stopped sending out emails to see if the other commissioners would agree on that and I cannot see how they wouldn’t, you know, it’s going be beneficial for everybody, I think, but who knows… NP: Yeah… It makes good sense. AA: Yeah, maybe we can get a letter going once we communicate just a little bit more then maybe we can draft up the letter but it’s got to be approved by our Mayor and then maybe we can support you little bit more. NR: Oh, yeah, that’d be great. That’d be great. AA: Anybody else got questions or comments for Nelson? NP: I have one more question, Nelson… Would you update us on what’s happening with the deer problem on Molokai – I talked to Godfrey Akaka and – of Native Hawaiian Gathering Rights Ass’n and he said there was some good headway/negotiations going on. Can you update us on that? 29 NR: Yeah, I’ve been talking with State Representative Lynn DeCoite, State Senator English, the Maui DLNR Scott Fritz – his gang – a bunch of the \[unclear\] homeowners which is where the problem is really at with the deer and so me and Godfrey we came up with a bit of – there’s no plans on Molokai or the DLNR – they have no management plan – no nothing – so we came up with a short term plan, a long term plan and, we presented ‘em to Molokai Ranch, DLNR – all the supposedly \[unclear\] players, they’re all for it – they want to know a little bit more details and, in short, I’ll tell you. My plan was – we going concentrate down on the lower part of the Molokai Ranch and Kaluako’i, which is where a lot of the sick – we cannot use that word sick – but a lot of the weak, malnourished deers are. So our proposal or short term plan was to go in the common areas and eradicate or should I say shoot and get rid of all the weak and malnourished deers. That’s it – just the weak ones and we plan to do that with archers or air rifles in the common areas. And once we can push the deers further out to where it’s going to be safe to shot with the rifles then we let the rifle guys take care of that and then – so we asked the state how can we get funded cause it’s really benefiting the west end people, which is the mostly snow birds down there – so it’s basically benefiting them cause if we like shoot one deer or deer for the table we can get ‘em in our back yards – so we trying to get financial assistance. So he says OK – what you need – I said, well, we need bullets, we need arrows, we need gas money, lunch money and, ah, so off the bat, ah, they said that, you know, forget arrows and bullets – that’s probably an impossible \[unclear\] to the state – so I says, OK, why don’t we think outside the box – so then I told him what if we put a bounty a $10.00 bounty on each sick deer – only the sick deer – not the healthy ones running around just the sick deer – we put a $10.00 bounty for every sick deer that you shoot for weak deer that you shoot - you bring the tail in with a picture – and we offer you ten bucks for ‘em. So everybody seemed to approve that plan but the thing now is we just waiting on funds, whether it go come from the state, county, or the West End Ass’n, who we’re really helping. We got the hunters, we got everybody ready to go – we’re just waiting to see if we can get funds. And then another big problem we got – one of the bigger hurdles which me and Godfrey will meet with them I think on Friday is that Western Ass’n, you know, they always \[unclear\] Molokai, you know, they said, you know, we love Molokai, we like the lifestyle, we love you guys over here – then they buy one piece property – then they fence ‘em up and they 30 put no hunting. And I tell them – that’s not the lifestyle we live in where you come in and you buy one big piece property and you fence ‘em and then all of a sudden now we cannot hunt. So anyways, their association is against down in Kaluako’i – it’s all against – no hunting – no discharge of firearms and this is what helps compound the problem when we cannot hunt – we cannot discharge firearms – and now that you folks running to this kid of issues – now you guys reaching out and asking for help and, um, with all that said – they still never give us one OK to go ahead and go with our plan. So it might come to the point where Representative DeCoite and Senator English might have to force their hands into allowing us to do our short term plan. So right now we just kind of in one standstill and waiting for funds and once we get the funds then we can kind of really put more pressure on them. 6. OLD BUSINESS: a. Discuss GMAC Legislative bills. AA: OK. Thanks for the update, Nelson. Thanks for your and Godfrey – all your guys work. Moving on to Old Business… We going discuss legislative bills – we introduced 2 news bills and then we reintroducing one of the bills that went all the way through last year – legislative time – and it hit a stone wall because COVID so we’re going to re-introduce that bill and Nani can update us on the legislative part of it. NP: Nani - District 4. Mark Nakashima, Representative – he’s been very helpful to us and he’s going to reintroduce SB 2417. That bill we introduced last year, and that was a takeoff from HCR 22 – the resolution – we got to a few years back – and so we wanted to turn it into a bill that has more teeth to it and it did very, very well. It got almost to the finish line and then right, COVID shut down the Legislature so it has to be re-introduced all over again but from what we understand – it should have no problem flying through because it had already made it so far and Mark Nakashima’s re-introducing that, so that’s really good news. AA: Abraham – District 5 – Nani can up just update everybody on what that bill is about. 31 NP: Yeah, so that bill establishes that our game resources are a valuable food resource for local sustainability. So, um, and if it had to be recognized in all the departments involved, so, it’s for food security and sustainability – they would be recognized for their value for those things. It’s a really important bill and yeah, it looks like we had great success last year and it’s going to make it this year so… Pretty excited about that. And then we asked to re- introduce HB 1041, which was the bill we originally county GMAC introduced to win the existence of a State Game Management Advisory Commission and, that’s why we are so concerned about the activities in the State GMAC because we’re the mother of it and not very many people realize that and we hate to see it not serving the purpose we were hoping and that we fought so hard for and so in this bill – HB 1041 – we’re hoping that it’s written in such a way that it’ll be a little more autonomous from the DLNR and get back into the hands of actual hunters in control of it – not to be too critical of the DLNR but we would like to see it more functioning for the purpose that it was formed and so the wording is being written up right now – so we just got the draft this afternoon so none of us has had a chance to look at it really well, but, we’re hoping for some feedback – getting it out there so… AA: And that bill doesn’t really have a number but it’s more of – Abraham – District 5 – that’s the bill that Stanley was mentioning with Nelson about the State GMAC members – when the new members get voted in – they get voted in not just put in by DLNR or other means – and then there’s another law – a forgiveness law that Brian was trying to introduce so he can kind of touch up on that – it really kind of got switched around by the original way that Brian wanted it introduced. BL: Yeah, I talked to the attorney and he said due to federal law there was a lot of things that we couldn’t do and he was going to go back and get it where it didn’t involve federal law – where we’re not getting involved in federal law. Basically, the bill we were trying to get was a forgiveness where people that had a bad moment of judgement one night and after five/seven years of keeping, being good – would be allowed to own sporting rifles and muzzle loaders again so we can get people that had indescribable youth - in their older age be able to hunt besides with the bow and arrow and a knife – so 32 that’s what we’re trying to get. We’re hurdling the federal restrictions on gun owners for certain offenses. AA: Anybody got any questions or comments on the legislative bills that are being introduced? No? OK. Moving on to Waipio Pedestrian Access. I think Nani you got an update on that? b. Update on County Council Bill 217, ban on Waipio pedestrian access. NP: No, I don’t. Grayson, did you have any update on that one – I know we didn’t contact you about it… Just wondering in case maybe you’d had word of… My impression is that because of all the testimony against the ban of pedestrian traffic into Waipio they at least put the bill on hold. GH: Nothing from me… NP: Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s what’s happened – it’s at least on hold. Anybody out there know? c. Report on DOFAW Rule Changes: AA: OK. Moving on to DOFAW rule changes – I think this part is not really designated \[unclear\] rule changes but this one just recently got brought up because I guess Stanley and Tom Lodge had a meeting with DOFAW about changing one of the rules about hunting with air rifles so I guess Stanley can kind of touch up on that. SM: This is Stanley – District 1. We met with Ian Cole and Kanalu Sproat to discuss making one air gun season. Tom is supposed to be getting the details to Ian and that’s where we’re at now… And I don’t know all the rules changes that we talked about the last meeting maybe Ian can add… AA: He no stay… They both gone… SM: Oh. Well, without them then… 33 7. NEW BUSINESS: a. Public Shooting Range discussion. AA: Well, moving on to new business. Public Shooting Range discussion. And that’s pretty much same as Mile Marker 16 Shooting Range Clean-up – we going kind of join that two together – I go first – I went up there – well last meeting Kean brought up about the trash and stuff that was up there and the pictures that I seen off of social media, you know, there was a lot trash but I took a spin up there yesterday and it’s pretty much cleaned up – there’s a lot of trash looking because people, you know, they’re practicing shooting clays so because of the orange and black mix-up that maybe what some people taking as like trash but I not sure how they would go about really cleaning up all the clays on the ground – that was like on the upper range and then the lower range there was some trash in there that we picked up but not too much – not like what was in the pictures so people from the community went out and they did a pretty good job of cleaning up that area and I’ll pass the next part on to Kean because he had some suggestions and ideas. b. Mile Marker 16 Shooting Range clean-up: KU: Ah, yeah, the range, this Kean – District 2 – development of the range, I guess, is put on hold because of probably COVID but I’d like to see a little bit more done with the funds that we have – Pittman-Robertson fund – we can – how we develop the range – how we get the two ranges combined into two separate ranges with a berm in the middle of both ends and I’d like to see it done like – if anybody did any kind of competition up at Puuloa – or even Kaneohe – they’re berms are at least 30’ – that and their ranges are right in a housing area and they’ve been doing this for years. Puuloa has 1,000 yard range capability and I’ve never shot 1,000 yards but I’ve shot 600 yards there. I’ve never seen any accidents in all the years that I’ve shot – where a row was discharged and crossed over to the other range while others were shooting. I think that’s something that we should look into – a suggestion was making a – what was it – a pattern range in the middle – the consensus I got from the trap community was negative – they did not want to see that – if there’s any other trap members that would like to see 34 something like that – please let us know. But, yeah, I’d like to see that range developed because that’s the only range we have right now – a public range. That’s pretty much what I have… AA: Any other comments or questions for the public shooting range up at Mile Marker 16? JO: Yeah, James O’Keefe here. Been working on range facilities for a number of years and to echo Brian’s comments too – all that P-R money that’s out there – it’s curious how it’s allocated and how we get it. I think for the next GMAC meeting it might be a good idea to have Andrew Choy from DLNR attend and present what the rules and background is on Pittman-Robertson funding – he’s the one that administers that program for the DLNR and be glad to reach out to Bob Masuda and ask him to attend that and I don’t know if Kean – you probably met with Darren Ogura up 16 mile? KU: Yes. JO: Yeah, he’s been the gentleman tasked by DLNR to make whatever range improvements they can do under their funding limits. They’ve done quite a bit actually and there’s still a lot more to go but I think it’d be good if we could find out what’s available for P-R funding for the range and get that moved toward perhaps getting a better range, you know, as many of you know I’ve worked on the Puuanahulu Public Shooting Range project since 2005. We have environmental assessment that is virtually complete but not published so it’s really hard to get money right now from the Legislature but we should be planning for as things improve a little bit going to them because one of the facets of P-R funding is it’s a matching fund and Andrews can talk a little more about what that is now – I think it’s a lot more beneficial to us – but we have to put the money up first and that means the county or the state or some combination and the federal government reimburses us for that – so there’s a lot of information I think we need to gather to try to rebuild this effort to perhaps move that along – or use monies for 16-Mile or a combination thereof. AA: Sounds good Jim, yeah, so as far as that part – next month’s meeting is going to be pretty much all about shooting so we reached out to Bob 35 Masuda already and he denied showing up – I think he’s passing it on to the local guys but he’s already saying the state does not have any money for that project. So… JO: Yeah, that’s going to be the answer we get, you know, for some years to come. But the P-R funding is still coming in so it’s a matter of where that is going. As Brian said, it’s supposed to be used for activities of sportsmen – hunting, game management, archery, shooting range – those kinds of efforts and it would be good to find out where that money is going right now and where we might be able to get in line for that, so… AA: Right. Abraham – District 5 again. So now with this information – now we’re going to reach out to Andrew and see if he’ll be interested in coming in to next month’s meeting. We also reached out to the Police Chief – he’s going to be at that meeting – not as a presenter but just in case anybody has any questions or comments for him then he can come out and answer it. We’re also trying to get a meeting with the Mayor but, you know, with his current situation we’re not sure if we’re going to be able to make that meeting with him but maybe – I don’t really want to catch him off guard so I don’t really want to invite him to the meeting and then he’s not prepared for it too – that’s why we was trying to get a meeting with him prior – the other side of that is if Grayson and George can do some research about and maybe they can work with you too, Jim, and is where else can we get funding from besides there – I know there’s like NRA and I think one other one is GMA or something… JO: The National Shooting Sports Foundation does a lot of assistance with range development as does the NRA – they’re both basically in the – they will really help you plan it – start how to design it – those kind of things. Money for construction – that’s a much harder task – we might be looking at – well, the suggestions we’ve had over the years is networking with some of the ammunition, firearms manufacturers for some kind of sponsorship, some kind of grant in aid for those kind of things. They do that in ranges across the country – Clark County Shooting Range is a great example of that – if you go down there you’ll find a lot of the ranges have sponsorships where those companies put money forward to help build those up and maintain them, so there’s a lot of avenues for that and like I said – we have to come up with 36 money first to get the P-R matching funds. It was 25 to 75 – I think it’s better than that now but Andrew could give us a better answer on that, I think. AA: Right. I just want to – if I can – even Kean can help them out and see, you know, just research and see what avenues that we can go along and where the extra funding could or can come from. KU: This is Kean – District 2. A while back – I’m not sure if you were shooting up at Hakalau in - the Big Island Gun Club? JO: Yes, I was… KU: I’m not positively sure about the money that was held in the treasury for range development or membership but wasn’t there some kind of money that was set aside? JO: Yeah, the Big Island Gun Club – such as it exists – still has a range acquisition fund. It’s in the tens of thousands, perhaps $30,000 – something along those lines. And that’s not really enough to get an EA or do that but it could be used given membership approval – board approval for a project like that but it wouldn’t go far enough for say Puuanahulu but for some small improvements at say 16-Mile it might be the kind of thing we could do. KU: That would be a good start I would think. JO: Yup. NP: Jim, Nani here… It’s so good to hear your voice – we miss you… JO: Well, thank you, Nani. NP: Yeah. I just wanted to ask if you had some kind of idea – rough figure off the top of your head – how much would it cost to finish – I know so much money has been put into the Puuanahulu Range development – how much more would it take? Do you have a rough idea? 37 JO: Well, the first part is getting through the EA process and hopefully not have to go through an environmental assessment \[unclear\] EIS, ah, all of the studies have been done and I think it could be published without a whole lot more expense, really it exists on DLNR’s website in unpublished form but it has all of the data and everything – I don’t know if anybody else has seen it, I may be able to find a copy of it to share. As far as past that, the construction itself – we were, you know, starting back in 2005 DLNR had offered a lot of in kind assistance for say grading, someone offered to make an access road to the site, the County of Hawaii – Department of Environmental Management had been contacted and was supportive of using the access way from through the Puuanahulu Landfill to get to the upper corner of the landfill to get to the lower corner of the range property. AA: Right on, thanks Jim. So, yeah, don’t forget we’re inviting you to do a small presentation next month too, ah? JO: OK. All right. 8. ANNOUNCEMENTS: AA: OK. Moving on. Announcements. So announcements is Brian Ley might be going into District – 4, he has a confirmation with the County Council tomorrow so Brian do you want to say something? BL: I probably said enough tonight, I probably ruined my chances. AA: OK. NP: Well, I’d like to say something. I think Brian Ley will be a great contribution to GMAC. AA: You’re right. NP: Also, Courtney… AA: I just getting to that, yeah… 38 NP: Oh, sorry, go ahead… AA: Right now, also, there’s Courtney Okamura from the Kohala Center. She’s interested in being a GMAC representative for District 7. So Courtney would you want like to say something. Hi Courtney. NP: Hi, Courtney. CO: Aloha everybody. Thanks so much for the invitation to join today. Yeah, just real quick I was asked by Tom Lodge. I’ve known him for about 10 years and I’m honored to be asked by him to join the Commission and apply and I’ve been a resident of District 7 for, gosh, 15 years now, so I’m looking forward to helping serve our Island and our community in whatever way I can be called to do so. AA: Thank you. So what part are you on in your application? CO: Sorry, what was that? AA: Abraham – District – 5, did you do your application yet? CO: Sorry, District – 7. AA: No, I know, but I’m District – 5. I said, what part of doing your application are you at or are you done? Like what’s your status? CO: Oh, sorry, I submitted the application a few weeks ago but I haven’t heard anything yet. I think I submitted it before the holidays. BK: This is Barbara, I’ll follow up on your application. Thank you. CO: Thank you. NP: Nani here. Thank you, Barbara. AA: Thank you, Barbara, I was just going to ask you that. Thanks, Courtney. Hopefully, we see you get in. 39 CO: Thanks, you guys. NP: We hope so… 9. COMMISSIONERS REPORT BY DISTRICTS: AA: Any commissioners have any reports? No commissioner reports? OK. 10. COMMITTEE REPORTS: AA: Moving down. Committee reports? Any committee reports. No committee reports? Barbara can we get an update on next meeting on what committees we have. Can you have a print out for that? BK: OK. Will do. 11. ADJOURNMENT: Action: N. Pogline motioned to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by K. Umeda. Motion carried unanimously. Next Meeting is February 23, 2021. Meeting adjourned at 8:25pm. Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary ATTEST: Abraham Antonio Chair 40 41