Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016-02-22 Game Managemetn Advisory Commission Minutes Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: Monday, February 22, 2016 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building — Council Chambers I. CALL TO ORDER: Meeting was called to order at 6:31 pm. II. ROLL CALL: Per Bobby Command: Willie-Joe Camara, District 1 — absent and excused Dwayne "Ike" Yoshina, District 2 — here Ryan Kohatsu — here Naniloa Poglen - here (w Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 - here Kenneth "Kalani" DeCoito, District 6 — here District 7 Mark C. Bartell — District 8 — here Jonathan Bertsch — here District 9 Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Belinda Castillo-Hall, Corporation Counsel B. Command, Deputy Planning Director GUESTS: Jeno Enocencio Mike Amado Mike Robinson Leonard Tanaka III. Announcements and Introductions: TL: OK. This evening we do have some — Jeno Enocensio is here, Mike Amando is here, um, they're gonna do a presentation with us along with Tony Sylvester, ah, Mike Robinson, and I believe Leonard Tanaka who 1 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 was on the schedule, ah, is off-island, I believe, this evening. Can we go — have you guys looked at the minutes or our minutes from last... Any comment on the minutes as of November... OK, um, you folks have had an opportunity to look at the minutes — any discussion on the minutes? Any discussion? OK. Any call to approve the minutes? IV. Approval of Minutes: ?: I call to approve... This is Mark, I call to approve. Ike: Second... TL: All right, all in favor? [The ayes have it] TL: OK. All right, so they're accepted. Also, we have a memorandum here, um, does the Corporation Counsel want to address that memorandum for us? BC: OK. This was issued February 5, 2016, by Corporation Counsel —the Corporation Counsel — Molly Stebbins — reminding employees and campaigners during the election season what the restrictions are for all county offices and employees because the officers of this commission are considered officers and board members and employees, you would fall under—these rules would be applicable to you as well. So it's a guideline, um, and they suggest if in doubt you can call the Corporation Counsel office and present your questions. TL: You're telling me I got to quit Gregor, then, right? BC: Just cannot talk to him about — at work. TL: OK. Does anybody have any questions of this memorandum? And basically we shouldn't be out there soliciting for... ?: Oh, wonderful... V. Budget Report: TL: OK. Thank you. OK. Let's move on to the budget report. All in favor of accepting the budget report? Any discussion on it? Anyone move to accept. Ike: This is Ike, I move to accept. 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 NP: Second. TL: OK. Moved and seconded. All in favor? [The ayes have it] VI. Public Testimony on agenda items: TL: All right. So moving forward. Anybody have public testimony on our agenda this evening? Apparently, not, OK, so, um, actually I'd like to call Jeno, um, [unclear] and, um, Mike Amado, um, Mike is the owner/operator of a mobile slaughterhouse and they're gonna do a presentation this evening of some of the aspects of this and how it can benefit ranchers in this county and what have you. We have a gentleman here from Montana that has a couple questions for you on that as well, so... OK. ?: I'm not actually not the owner. TL: Oh, OK. ?: I'm the president of Hawaii Island Meat which is the cooperative that is the owner and operator of [unclear— not speaking in mic] TL: Got you... ?: The actual owner of the unit is Big Island Resource Conservation Development—this council — and they lease it to us and that asset will over time convert to ownership of the coop itself, but as a publicly funded project, ah, we have to maintain that relationship with a non-profit and have this as an asset that's available for public usage. TL: OK. Sorry about that, I stand corrected... ?: No worries. TL: [Not speaking in mic] G: All right. OK. My name's Jeno Enocencio — glad to be here at the Game Management Advisory Committee, um, Council, ah, I got involved with the Hawaii Island Meat Cooperatives maybe about a year and a half— maybe almost two years ago, yeah, and, ah, started putting things together— it was a dream — it was a dream that was started up by— who was this guy— what's his name? ?: Kawika Marquez... 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 ?: Kawika —former president of Big Island Resource and Conservation [unclear] Council VII. Discussion: 1. Jeno Enocencio, Board Member of Meat Slaughter unit of the Hawaii Island Meat Corporation in promotion of a Mobile Slaughter Unit for the benefit of Ranchers, Farmers, and Political Divisions such as DHHL. JE: And his dream was basically to accommodate a lot of the small producers of meat, ah, you know, whether it be sheep, goats, pigs, ah, cattle and, you know, try to alleviate some of the tensions between the producers and the big time ranchers and stuff like that and try to accommodate the — with this mobile slaughter unit. And we got a video presentation —well not a video presentation — it's a slide show— Powerpoint—there's some video involved here — but maybe Mike would like to give a little bit background before we start that. MA: Yeah, so, um, so basically, as I alluded to before, this is a public project— it's been completely funded by grants that have come from either USDA or Hawaii Department of Agriculture, um, and quite a few other county grants that we've received as well, so, we've been pretty successful in actually being able to present a very compelling business case for this. So on the funding part —there's a very heightened sense of obligation back to the community—that this is a service that has to be put in place for usage of the community— which set up a coop structure that owns and manages the unit and members of the community are able to buy into the coop — it's a very low investment to come in and it's also refundable if they chose to leave the coop at any point. So the effective cost of being a member of the coop on an annual basis is $100 bucks and with that it's —the whole intention behind this is the promotion of small scale livestock agriculture on the island —getting agricultural lands back into active production and enabling this at a sufficiently low entry point so that beginning farmers, 4-H students — can actually have a chance at being able to raise a few animals — understand — begin to learn the business and then over time begin to start developing into larger operations if they so chose to go down that path. It also is an entry point for members of the community who are already in ranching but want to do specialty types of products that are very hard for the larger facilities to handle because, um, many of the certifications require a complete segregation from all other processing. So with a unit like this we're actually able to accommodate a lot of that and provide a path to market that simply doesn't exist for most of the smaller scale producers that are on the island. So we've had several years of planning — putting together a very detailed feasibility study for this. I've worked with the UH Agro-business incubator program to come up w ith a 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 detailed business case and based on all of that came up with the entire (W financial picture that has been sufficiently compelling that has enabled us to receive all the grant awards that ultimately bought and paid for and got the unit on to the island. Currently, we're in the process of going through our initial training so we've hired a selected group of butchers that are going to be managing this thing regionally when they thing comes into their region of the island we have butchers in those locations who will actually operate the unit while it's there and we are starting the regulatory approval cycle with USDA to receive our grant of inspection, um, as well as Department of Health for managing any waste products that come out of this. So, um, our targeted startup date at this point is in April and, um, assuming everything goes well with our regulatory approval process which we're planning on being up and running in that time frame. So with that — what we can do is have Gino take you through a —just a quick graphic— and I do mean graphic— this is actually from one of our practice sessions so you will see the process in all its glory in here. So if that's challenging for anybody, please speak up quickly and we'll try and [unclear] hop through that as fast as we can. JE: Yeah, it's really important that we demonstrate and enlighten people that, you know, what this is — it's a meat wagon — it's a mobile slaughter unit and, you know, what we're trying to do is become sustainable here in these islands and be able to make sure and ensure our families, you know, that we're capable of putting food on the table. At the same time become an industry of small producers that might be able, you know, to feed the rest of the state as well as, you know, maybe do some exporting. We don't have any exporting industry or anything like that right now, OK, so, you know, since the plantations went out— so what we're looking at is hopefully being able to put this meat processing together and be able to sustain life in these islands. So I'm gonna go ahead and start on this first slide, ah, Hawaii Island Meat Cooperative — Mobile Slaughter Unit— February 22, 2016 — and it's a presentation to the Hawaii County Game Management Advisory Committee. OK? So the first one we have right here— it's the mobile slaughter unit is a trailer— is it a forty foot? MA: It's 36 foot footprint. JE: Yean, and, ah, it's really a cool unit. As we go through you'll be able to see what I mean by this. OK. Now this is from the back entrance of the mobile slaughter unit —the end part of the trailer— and this is the wash and harvesting section and basically, what we have is the necessary hooks and implements to raise the animal in order to make it easy for processing or "harvesting," you know, we like to call it. OK. Also in the back section of the mobile slaughter unit we have the view of the chill compartment and the harvesting rack or the track. Naturally, when we pull the animal up then it'll be hoisted up onto these rails and then from there it becomes 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 mobile where we can move it around and make it accessible for the butchers to conduct their business. OK? Over here what we have is the mobile slaughter unit side entrance of the chill compartment-- now it gets down pretty cold — about what kind of temperature we're looking at? MA: Oh, that'll take things into the freezing realm very easily... JE: Yeah. MA: But the standard for USDA's requirements it has to be chilled from live carcass temperature down to below 45 degrees within a 24 hours period and the system in here will achieve that in about a 13 to 14 hour period so it's sized to ensure that we will never miss that target. ?: Yeah. JE: Um, then we have the mobile slaughter unit's side entrance to utility, water, back, back-up generator, um, you know I had this revised — did you put in the new one, ah, slide, that I sent you? ?: [Not speaking in mic] JE: What's that? Kona... OK. Well anyway, on this, on the slide itself, we also have hot water, not only cold water, and we also have, um, let's see, batteries, if in case the generator doesn't work and stuff like that so, it's, you know, it's pretty well equipped, OK? MA: This unit is intended to be operated in remote conditions and fully self- sufficient for two days of processing. So it has all its water, fuel, everything necessary to accomplish that goal. JE: OK. We had a blessing — this was over in Kealakekua and in Captain Cook, um, the dedication was given by Kahu Akaka and, ah, it was really a spiritual, very, very spiritual event that day, upon dedicating this unit because it made it quite promising future for a lot of the producers, OK? And then we had a celebration — a new venture for Hawaii Island Meat Producers — right here we have David Fuertes and his wife, Carol, and they put together the pig and the pua'a and just enjoyed —well when the [unclear] was delicious, OK? And then we had a — during that day—we also had a membership drive and it, ah, as Mike explained, basically membership drive was, you know, to get members involved in this and then, you know, back us up on this venture and you explained a little bit about it but there was also the stock that they could purchase? MA: Yup, yup. 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 JE: OK, um, so this is us —the directors, the officers and partners. Then we (W have the MSU over in Kamuela —this is where we had the training — blessings on the —to the trainer— his name is Jim — I forget what his last name was... MA: Wairinga... JE: Wairinga? MA: Yeah. JE: Yeah, that's... MA: We're actually been working with experienced operators of these units. Jim and Bruce Dunlop are — they ride the Island Road Food Coop in Washington State —this was the first organization that was able to successfully have one of these units built and approved by the USDA and they've been in operation for 13 years now, um, once we started talking with them we actually realized that they had a very similar operating model to what we have here. They work off the coast, um, Lopez Island, Bainbridge Island, there are several islands that are off the coast of Washington State and they have to put their unit on a ferry and go to these locations and process remotely and then come back to a home base that is on the mainland. So it had so many similar characteristics and when we started talking about the various problems that we would encounter they were like, yeah, we can help you with that and so we actually hired them as consultants to come over here and help us do the initial calibration and training of the unit as well and that's what these pictures are showing today. JE: Then what we have is the pua'a —first harvest animal was the— our pua'a — it was respectfully treated and taken and making the way for the harvest. MSU rear entrance what we see is the pua'a being taken up by hoist and then this — the wash and harvesting section and the trainees receiving — what you call guidance and direction by Jim —what was that again? MA: Waiwringer... JE: Waiwringer... OK. You know, at times pronouncing my name, you know, so we're even, OK. Um, then we went through process, well, the trainers went to the process of, you know, cutting and skinning the animal and then after that— cleanliness is really, really important, you know, on an operation like this, you know, you're gonna have flies, you're gonna have, you know, different types of insects coming around and stuff like that, you know, but taking care of the floor, taking care of the equipment and making sure it's washed out is really, really important. Sanitation is key, 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 OK, then what they'll do is inspect the organs, OK, for any abnormalities, and then the saw blade is inspected and the carcass is split through the vertebrae, so what we have is a half pua'a and it goes directly into the chill. Now, you know, a lot of folks would say— what, you skinned the pig? And, you know, most locals, OK, they like, you know, if you're gonna have a pig for kalua pig or leong chong and stuff like that— you've gotta have the skin. So we're working on that, yeah, as far as getting the... MA: Yeah... That's one of the advantages of this very small — relatively speaking, piece of equipment— is the adaptability to serve very unique market segments and so we have the ability to do both whole pig in skin as well as a split and cut-into a retail package type of product that most consumers would be typically finding in a grocery store environment. JE: Then, oh, oh —what happened here — [technical difficulties] —the one sent you today... Ah, yesterday. Yeah, I sent you the last one and that was to, you know, do away with the other two that I had sent that was just basically to test and then I sent the final, yeah, I sent both of you folks the final. You didn't get it? Ah? Well, anyway... MA: OK. JE: Yeah, OK. So... MA: No worries, we can explain this very easily. JE: This is the same process that we use for the pipi. OK. We had a pipi, almost, it weighed about 800 pounds or something? MA: Yeah, it was bit smaller— eight, nine hundred pound range. JE: Yeah, and, ah, so we did that one and then ah, so, you know, like anything it was treated humanely, um, you know, one of the things about this type of a firearm that they use — it's a... What is it called? MA: It's a — it's a specialized piece of equipment— it's called a captible [sp?] stun gun —which isn't in and of itself all that specialized, but because of— we have a very high focus on humane animal handling, and, in fact, by virtue of this first training event through we received a recommendation from the animal welfare approved organization to receive that certification so, um, basically, all of our techniques and our equipment have to be oriented toward the least invasive and intrusive and stress-inducing technologies that are available and so the stun gun is actually very— an impressive piece of equipment— extremely heavy and it makes about as much noise when it's in operation as one of those little cap guns that kids play with — it's a very light pop even though it's a 25 caliber charge and, 8 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 um, watching it operation, I mean, I come from a cattle ranching family (W that's done this for well over seven generations and there's a bit of brutality that's always inherent in that process and this was impressively lacking that. The animals are in a calm state, just waiting, they literally just put captive bolt, pull the trigger and it just drops — silent— nothing going on. It's really impressive and I was like "wow" this is the way this entire industry should operate... NP: Yeah... MA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it's just — it's a piece of equipment— it's manufactured in the UK and it's tailored to working in this environment under the requirements of AWA. TL: [Not speaking in mic] JE: What's that again? TL: [Not speaking in mic] JE: Ah, you know, it doesn't have the second half. MA: Yeah, it looks like you're missing... JE: Yeah, the —this was the original test that I had sent to you folks, ah, but the one I sent you on Sunday, you know, to make sure that the videos and all that stuff worked — is not here. But, that's OK, like I said, you know, it's basically the same, except the cattle, the pipi was little bit more intrusive as far as getting into the bowels, you know, and insuring and then checking, you know, that head, the inspector comes in and they have to removed the head and then put it in a certain section where the inspector comes and checks the head for whatever abnormalities there might be and then the —we also pull out the liver and check that out and any part of the inners or organs that might be — have any form of this abnormalities — let's keep it at that. And then from there if they gut and then, you know, it's the skinning process is done like halfway before they gut and everything and it— the animal is actually laid on a cradle bed and that cradle bed is really, you know, it's like, jezz, you know, I wish we had something like this when we go out into the field, yeah, but it made it really convenient, you know, to get around the animal and stuff and then it was hoisted up and then they went with the saw and cut it right down — half— and then quartered it and chunk! Right into the chill. Really fast, really fast. How many heads of cattle could we possibly do a day? MA: The capacity on the unit is between eight and ten head of cattle per day, (W ah, for sheep and goats, ah, between twenty and thirty and hogs — if we're 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 doing the skinned and split hog —those are about 15. If we're doing a whole pig and skin, um, when we have the scalding and de-hairing equipment— our capacity goes up to about 30, and then our chilling and refrigeration compartment has the capacity—the storage capacity for two full days of processing. TL: You're selling the shares to folks, you know, $100 a year, whatever it is — that entitles them to what? MA: Well the actual membership fee is $100. The investment in the coop, ah, which is a separate fee is basically a $500 buy-in. It entitles them to a single share of stock and that's actually the maximum anyone can own — is on share, one person — and it represents their voting power in the cooperative, um, and what that entitles them to is priority scheduling — so they in advance let us know what their processing needs —when they're gonna have animals ready to harvest and then they get built into the schedule before anyone else who would be a non-member. They also get to work on committees that determine the type of meat products that we're ultimately going to be marketing — so we have genetic improvement programs that we're working on with the producers of the various species as well as looking at marketing segments— like if we have a customer that is looking for kosher [unclear], um, part of the function of the coop is to pull together the required parties to actually design the entire vertically integrated process or raising that animal through processing it and having it packaged and ready for sale, um, and because some of the standards associated with this are pretty strict it's actually a kind of a challenging thing to do but, so it gets some entry into this participative process that enables us to serve markets that otherwise would be virtually impossible for a small producer to get involved in and then the other thing that the ownership of that share of stock does is, it entitles them to a --what's called a patronage dividend — so the — our charter for the coop is that we don't—we offer our services to members at cost— non-members who want to use the service — this unit or any of our services — are going to pay the standard schedule rate plus a 25% up charge. And then, from the patronage dividend perspective — what they're entitled to is any profits that are generated from the operation of the coop itself are then redistributed back to the, um, member owners of the stock in the coop and, um, we - our business case projections are that by year 2 and half, three — somewhere in that time frame—will be at full capacity spinning off about an excess of$300,000 a year in excess cash that would be going back to the coop members. JE: Petty good, eh, for this little thing. TL: Yeah, it is. 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 Ike: So I have a question... (W MA: Yes. Ike: So if people were interested in knowing more about this —who would they contact? MA: Ah, we have a website — it's Hawaii IslandMeat.com. Ike: OK. MA: And they can enter their email address and then we also have contact information in there as well, so there's a phone number in there and if they call that they'll talk to me. Ike: Thank you. JE: Now our, our drive — I mean, this is just the first phase or, well, just a part of what we're actually doing or wanting to do. We're also looking for a chilling facility... MA: Yeah... JE: ....and cut and wrap, ah, now, and I think once we get into that area and (W harvesting a lot of the meats for the producers and stuff, I think then we'll be more viable and more active in processing this meat and getting 'em out to market, um, I, you know, from what I see here, especially with local folks and, you know, small producers and stuff like that, that have specialty meats an stuff, I mean, think about exporting — if Kobe beef is such recognized, you know, in Japan, for, you know, just really nothing except you know grazing volcanic grass and stuff— I can only imagine, you know, Mauna Kea, you know, brand meats, you know, that kind of stuff and how much people would be even more impressed and want to purchase it. You know, this is creating jobs, you know, it's helping folks to have a market for their animals and stuff and it'll be something that they can extensively, you know, grow out of that even further, ah, so, you know, the potential behind this is overwhelming, yeah, but, you know, it's great, it's great, I mean, it's huge, you see, and I'm hoping one of these days when we start getting back into the chicken industry that we might be able to have a processor for chickens, yeah, and egg production and stuff, you see, so, you know, it's dreams but it's stuff that's coming to reality and it's all basically because of guys like Mike and, ah, you know, folks from the Kohala Center and other people have put their hands in this stew and, you know, made a it mix and it tastes great. So, what we're looking at right now is to further promote this, ah, we've talked to Mike, ah, Robinson, he's (W Department of Hawaiian Homes Land and Leonard Tanaka — because 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 they've been harvesting or having round-ups at Mauna Kea on their sheep over at the Humu'ula and so what we wanted to do was see if maybe we can kinda like partner with them and then, you know, do the next harvest, you know, it'd be great for training and the meats is gonna be there and anyway, maybe Mike would want to come up and maybe give his — if that's OK? TL: Yeah... MR: [Not speaking in mic] JE: OK. So anyway, that's where we're at right now. It's a great project—we look forward to serving the community at whatever capacity that we can and get this baby going and, you know... NP: I'd like to say thank you. Whoa. I feel so glad to hear about this— it's really awesome — wonderful project. I'm so encouraged and impressed... JE: Thanks. NP: Yeah, I hope GMAC can encourage this in whatever way we can and I just had couple questions, um, so do you have to have a USDA inspector on site every time when you're doing a harvest? MA: It depends. If the intent for that processing run is for retail sale... NP: Then? MA: ....then, yes, you need USDA inspection. NP: Yeah, that probably drives up the cost to have that guy there every time... MA: No, actually, it doesn't. NP: Not too bad? MA: There's no cost involved. NP: Oh, cause that's their job. MA: It's a requirement of the... NP: So they have to... MA: ....of our food distribution... 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W NP: ....they have to accommodate you... MA: ....environment, so... NP: Oh, well, that's... MA: Since they put the requirement in place they also put the resource in place to do the inspection... NP: So they look at the animal before you kill it and... MA: There's a pre-slaughter inspection and... NP: So then people feel confident that the meat is A-OK. MA: Yeah, and it's kind of interesting, if you look at this model — because it— this is technically the highest level of inspection that you can possibly have in meat production... NP: Yeah. MA: And the reason is because the guy is standing in this small compartment watching every last step of the process where if you look at what— how it's done in a larger facilities — they're doing spot checks — they're watching (W each processing station and doing... NP: Yeah, a tall order... MA: And, yeah, so they leave one processing station and go to the next or this is the only place where you're gonna see a 100% audit of every step of the process being done under the eyes of the USDA inspector. NP: Yeah. And I also wanted to thank you that being humane is really important, um, because, you know, that, you go to where the animal is and they don't have the stress of getting loaded on the truck and... MA: Yeah... NP: ....and, ah, keep them really calm and then, yeah, that stunt gun, that's so good —that makes me feel really good about— if I was eating the meat. MA: Yeah. NP: Yeah. So, um, do you use the stun gun on big cows to or? (W MA: Yeah, yeah. 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 NP: That works on a big — you don't have to use a 22 which probably works pretty good... MA: No, There will be a firearm as part of the equipment set as a back-up device if anything goes wrong, but, ah, basically, the USDA's requirement is one shot and you drop that animal. If you don't, they can shut us down. NP: Yeah. MA: So that has to be a learned capability and that's why we have these practice runs and, um, it's actually not a very daunting challenge. NP: Yeah. MA: With the right tools and a bit of guidance that was provided to the, um, our butchers that we've hired, they're actually quite good at it and like I said — it was just impressive to see that, that process could be that humane. NP: Yeah. Really, I mean, I just have two more questions, really quick. MA: No worries. NP: There's a lady back here that has a question also. So, if you had just one cow, you know, really small kind, you guys would go? MA: No, not one cow. It has to be... NP: It has to be of a minimum? MA: Basically, for us to —for the economics to work we have to have a full processing [unclear]... NP: Full day.... MA: Full day of processing capacity wherever we move that... NP: Three cows... MA: For cows it's between eight and ten... NP: Eight and ten... MA: Yeah, so if you don't have that then what we also have is collector sites where we have days that we'll schedule where people can bring their animals... 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W NP: Bring — everybody comes together. Oh, that's how... MA: Yeah. And those are located, again, regionally, so that those transit distances are short and we're not... NP: Oh, perfect... MA: We're trying to avoid inducing as little — or introducing as little stress as possible to these animals, knowing that that transport is not ideal but unfortunately economics drives that piece of it. NP: Yeah, but at least it's short, yeah, the last question I have is for the guts... MA: Yeah. NP: Are you having any plan to compost that for the farmers? MA: Yeah. NP: I think you can, right? And... MA: Yeah, we have a couple... NP: Recycle it... MA: ....there's a couple of options that we have there. The first thing to point out is our waste stream on this is extremely small, um, and it's primarily we've been working with the Kona Raw Pet Foods Coop and they pretty much want to buy almost everything that we can provide them — so there's very little... NP: Oh, so, yeah... MA: ....there's heads and hooves and a few other bits and pieces — brain tissue and central nervous system tissue that can't be put into the distribution stream that has to get disposed of and so we have a few options with that: one is onsite composting —we've worked with the Department of Health — put together a template — they've tentatively looked at it and said, OK, all we have to do now is marry this to each specific site and grant an approval for that and then another option is that there are potentially a biodigester that is gonna be coming on line that we've provided input... NP: Good... 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: ....into that or if those two options don't work for whatever the circumstances are then just taking them to a waste disposal facility. NP: Mm... Last... MA: So, we've got back-up for that so that we know we always have a pathway to address this and keep this operation as clean and as minimally like problem creating as possible... NP: Yeah, good job... MA: ....it's not the cleanest thing in the world, I mean, it's a slaughter processing so that you do have an effluence stream that comes from it. NP: Yeah, yeah, right. Anyway, thank you very much. Very impressive. MA: Thank you. NP: There is a lady - that you had a question? SV: [Not speaking in mic] TL: Excuse me, ma'am. Can you come up here so we can hear you and record it? Oh, there we go... SV: Yeah, I wanted to know... TL: Yeah, you're good... SV: ....Sharron Vanata, um, I have a little ranch up on the slopes of Mauna Kea and I'd like to know if I pay you my $100 fee plus my $500 how many of us ranchers do you need? MA: Our break even for this project is thirty— thirty members — which is a very low number. We've had well over 70 interested parties prior to start up — we start up regardless because the funding that we've received actually covers us for our first 18 to 2 years of operations, so, in April we'll be up and running regardless of the number of members. Currently, our membership is a bit under 20 — and we're looking a fifteen to twenty range — but it's also a challenge for a lot of the small ranchers to commit their money to it because it is a $600 output and until they actually have a service that they can use it's like most of them are saying, "I'll just wait." So we know that once we get up and running we're gonna have a whole load of people that are going to paying and joining. SV: Yeah, I think most of us will just wait... 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W MA: Yeah... SV: ....we'll just shoot the cow— do our jerk meat and sausage... MA: Yeah... SV: So this... ?: How many have you got? SV: Right now I got 15. 1 had 45 but Freddy Nobriga stole thirty. I would have done back flips when he died... MA: Yeah... KD: I get couple questions on this. Now earlier— I understand about this membership cost $100, then the buy-in start $500 but after that you said there's a standard charge for non-members and members. MA: Yeah. KD: So basically, after that $600 — members still going have to be charged for use of the facility? MA: Yes, yeah, and the — there's a schedule of slaughter prices that are associated with each species and, um, one of our commitments back to Department of Agriculture — is that we wouldn't under cut or over price the other two facilities on the island that did the processing — so basically, the fees are at parody with those other two facilities. KD: But no chill, though, like for cattle you gotta at least chill 'em one to two weeks, yeah? MA: Yeah, that, that will actually be part of the service structure. Um, we just, that piece is following our start-up operations. So initially we're gonna have to work with partners to provide that service, but that will become part of our longer term strategy, um, and we're trying to advance that very quickly, like within the next three months... KD: Roughly, how much would a member pay versus a non-member? MA: Ah, the non-members' prices are just 25% higher than what the membership fees are. KD: Throw one price at me. 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: Well, ah, the only one that I know off the top of my... KD: I'm trying to do the math on this, you know, what I mean? MA: ...yeah, I only happen to know off the top of my head the sheep processing number just because I was talking with a producer who was inquiring about that and it's about $50.00 per head. TL: I just wanted to — I don't mean to step in but I thought I heard you say that fifty— that wasn't percent—that was dollars, when you said fifty earlier for the member? MA: Ah, fifty... TL: Yeah, I thought I heard you say that members — you had 500 buy in and $100 a year... MA: Yup... TL ....and then your cost was 50% of the regular price — is what I thought I heard you say. MA: No, no. There's just a standard price and then up charge of 25% for a non- member. TL: On top of it— so it's $50, for example, plus 25%? MA: Yeah, yeah. So it'd be $62.50 if it were a non-member looking for a processing for a sheep, roughly, I think the number is just slightly higher than $50 but... JE: It's pretty worth it because when you consider the fact that USDA is gonna be there and give the stamp of approval and you're gonna be marketing it to a retail outlet or if you're gonna be selling wholesale —from there wherever it goes it's up to you and stuff but if it goes to retail like Whole Foods and stuff like that —they demand, you know, quality meats. So, as far as standards and stuff, you know, there's a protocol that they have to follow-through to but, you know, I wish it could be cheaper, you know, but you know you gotta look at the facts of life as far as what they're gonna up it and everything else and, you know, you get good quality meat up there— what you raise and then being processed the right way and then, you know, so it's all setting the standards, you know, what, if you're gonna get quality meats and stuff like that and the, you know, the people out there — the consumers — gonna be purchasing these animals, you know, it's gonna be quality stuff so, you know, that's what expected. 18 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W TL: Speaking of Freddy Nobriga and... [Unclear] cattle for, ah, you know, fundraisers and stuff like that... JE: Yeah... TL: Does that require USDA as well or can that just be— how does that work? JE: I don't think, you know, if you go and get pipi up, you know, maybe, ah, maybe DHHL can explain that and stuff like that, but, you know, I believe they're basically giving away their meats, you know, to the homesteaders, you see, so as far as, and they know where it's coming from, you see, it's not something that— like, you know, OK, we're getting this meat from, you know, some place that, you know, and rustle all this cattle and stuff and now just go and sell 'em out into the market, you know, it's nothing like that, you know, there's a —what do you call it—there's a track— not a track record —what is it that they call, um, a process, but it's all —what you call — dated or you know where the meat came from, yeah, kinda like documenting it and stuff like that— like, in other words, you got lot numbers, right, OK, so if a farmer has certain eggs that he purchased, ah, you know, he raised and stuff like that and it goes up to the market and stuff like —there's lot numbers, you see, but you know where that eggs came from — same-same like this, you know. You're gonna know where the animal comes from. You're gonna know how it was processed, how it was taken care of, you're gonna know that it was one shot, one kill, you know, and you're gonna know that it was stress free, you see, you're gonna know that it was humanely done and respected as an animal that's gonna be put on your family's table. So we got to look at quality, you know, we gotta look at all those things and it becomes protocol, you know, there's no steps missing —that's why if you — I wish I had that other part with the pipi because right after the pig, the pua'a, was taken care of, it was total wash down and sanitation. Every animal that we go through — that's not just, OK, the one sheep, OK, we got a whole bunch of thirty sheeps and stuff, OK, well no need clean 'em because it's thirty sheeps — no way! After each animal harvested, it's washed down, OK, because you don't know, you know, what the animals might have. I mean, the inspector's there to look at the outside but when we get into the inside — there might be a different story, you see? So, but, it's inspected, so there's a process. TL: So when we're speaking of like game, for example, is that a viable — does it have to be alive when it gets to you? It has to, right? JE: Ah, yes... 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: If it's under USDA inspection, yes, because there has to be a —what's called an "anti-mortum" inspection, um, cause they're basically looking for any signs of neurological disease and that can only be observed when the animal's alive and then after slaughter then those animals would then be opened up and they'd look at organs — look at brain tissue — and make determinations if there's anything that's undesirable there. TL: I mean, this is just off the top of my head question... MA: Um-hum. TL: ...you know, they're not bringing down 30 or 40 sheep anymore, I don't think, but, you know, like on an eradication, for example, which, you know, they may be moving into, ah, private lands and other things going on which some of [unclear] that Tony's gonna [unclear] if he's still here, um, later on, um, so those animals can just be brought down to you and, ah, I mean, they'd be dead already but, um... MA: And that would be under the classification of an exempt slaughter— cause not all slaughter has to be inspected by USDA. In fact, there's species that don't require it. But if it's gonna be introduced into retail sales and that's pretty much your trigger for requiring the USDA inspection — so under exempt we can process anything —feral — they can be brought in after killed and then the skin eviscerated, slaughtered, any cleaning necessary — all that stuff done. TL: Oh, interesting... KD: I get, you know, I know there's some pros in there and some cons for this... ?: Just like when we first started up with GMAC, ah? BC: Pros and cons... KD: Yeah, see, no, my concern is OK, small scale, you guys talk about small scale, so you get auntie here, you know, as elderly as she is, she get maybe one two head, she like cut and wrap. It would be more advisable for her to see one of the local ones that one just cut and wrap already and slaughter versus the price you going pay for buy-in and the fee she going pay but it doesn't include the— her cut and wrap. JE: Well, that's, that's for her own, yeah? KD: Yeah, but, that's what I'm saying, so if this is one community thing and if this is one small scale thing, but it looks like your non-profit going coop, 20 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 going cooperative where the profit thing and so auntie guys like this —with (W one small scale — elderly people —just like house meat— so she cannot call you up for, "Eh, can you just slaughter my two cows since I one member I bought in." "Oh, no, auntie, we cannot and let alone we cannot chill 'em, we're not going cut and wrap for you. So soon we pau you gotta come and grab 'em." And so that part of contradicting yourself and saying "small scale" but then the cattle is ten, it's like oh! Wait, wait, wait, wait. She only like slaughter maybe one or two. So that's a small scale, that's a community thing. MA: Um-hum. KD: I cannot see this being a small thing, a community thing, but say ten heads minimum on cattle. JE: Well it's not — it's not something that we would actually go out like if she lives over in Ka'u and stuff like that and take the whole unit all the way down to Ka'u for two heads of cattle. KD: Oh, no, trust me. In Ka'u we would do that as one favor for her. JE: Yeah. Oh, see, that's good too. (W KD: We work on Monday... JE: You know, basically... KD: I lookin' at like people out here. Like they don't, they're not capable of doing things like that, but they like raise 'em small scale because the price of beef is expensive and price of pork is expensive... JE: Sure, yeah... KD: You know, they going buy 'em wean off, they going raise 'em at home, but now, uncle no can carry that beef, you know, so maybe he can get one nephew or something for help him or auntie can get one nephew or son- in-law come help her—just take 'em down — hey, I went buy into this, but, oh, auntie, we not gonna accept 'em because you need ten heads... MA: Um-hum. KD: ....not one. MA: Yeah. (W KD: So you see what I'm saying? 21 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: Yeah, and... KD: It's like you contradicting —to me it's one contradicting on being one member— buying into one stuff— but, yet, you know small scale. You looking at one big profit scale, so what's the difference between Kulana, J and J and you guys? Well... JE: Well, you know, the thing about it is, you know, we've got to look at cost feasibility too, yeah, I mean, if she or a whole bunch of other people call us up and say, "Oh, you know, we get one two heads and stuff like that." Eh, we set a schedule. When you can bring 'em, everybody can bring theirs at a certain location and stuff like that—that makes it feasible. You see what I mean? But if, if you're gonna go just one or two heads then we gotta get the butchers and the manager and come out and stuff and start up everything and then get the air conditioning and all that stuff, well, that's big bucks —that's a lot of money. KD: So, so, what does the member have then? The member can go through the training? JE: To what training? KD: To all this slaughter training — it has to be certified butchers... JE: Well, yeah. KD: The butchers going get paid for it. JE: Our butchers get paid. MA: Yeah. The intent behind this project is it's an economic incentive program and that's why the USDA and the Department of Ag funded it is because they see that this is a way to now start incentivizing the retention of livestock producers on the island, because right now—you look at it—the only ones that really operate profitably are the very large ranchers and they're the ones that the processes at Kulana or Hawaii Beef Producers are tailored to. It's very difficult for those facilities to actually take their process and do something custom for a smaller producer, but the intent of the project itself is really to promote people who want to get into livestock production and become a legitimate ongoing business that they have lower barriers to entry— not no barriers to entry— cause there's a cost associated with providing this service and the objective of the department [sounds like vag] was not to provide it at near zero or zero cost— it's as realistic a cost profile as possible at the lowest possible point. 22 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 TL: You mentioned that basically this is a scheduling issue for small — like the, (W my neighbor, for example, has three head of cattle right now... MA: Yeah. TL: And the guy right behind my house has, you know, several sheep... MA: Yup. TL: ....as well. So what they would do — if they were members, let's say, right... MA: Um-hum. TL: ....and they would call you up and say, "When is your next opening for my area?" And you'd have, I mean, how often would you like say in Puna or, I mean, how frequently could you do this with the right number of people participating. MA: Yeah. Our, our objective is that we will be in each region of the island —we basically broke it up into four quadrants — north, south, east, west— roughly— at least twice a month. And so, based on demand from the producers — we've hired a manager and she basically does the logistics and scheduling and so aggregation of all the demand from the producers (W — they tell us when they'll have animals ready for processing, um, and then we'll collect those and say, OK, we have enough sheep to make a sheep processing day on the north region. TL: Can you mix animals? MA: What's that? TL: Can you mix animals — like, you know, you get couple cattle, I get one goat, you know... MA: Um-hum, ah, yes... TL: ....can all meet the same day, if we can... MA: Yeah, because of the small scale of this, it's very easy to do a full sanitation process and then start from what would basically be a start up day operation that you would see in any other facility. TL: Interesting. Any other questions, Ike do you have one? (W Ike: Just, you know, conceptually you're talking a cooperative model, yeah? 23 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: Um-hum. Ike: So, you know, for me I can go with that. I think we should have more co- ops, rather than less. So I want to thank you for pursuing the idea. I wish you much success. MA: Thank you. Ike: And I'll probably try to find you on the Web. MA: OK. Ike: But I am challenged on computers, so... MA: OK... TL: You had a question? RS: I just had a comment, you know, my name is Rick Shaning, I'm from Montana originally— I live Hakalau now and been working — I can use my stage voice can't I? [Takes the mic] OK. Anyway, the whole idea in my sense of coop is to help someone who wants to raise their own meat for themselves. That's my idea... MA: Um-hum... RS: ....and in Montana what we have done is a poultry co-op... MA: Yeah. RS: So you have the scalder, you have the plucker, you have the [sounds like cones] to put your chickens in, you know, and so, and, um, the bagging facility, so when you bag 'em after you chill 'em and what we do is we — you join the coop and then — it's fifty bucks — and then when you set your schedule and the day you're gonna be butchering your fifty or, 100 chickens and then you pick up the equipment, bring it to your house or your barn — wherever you're gonna do it— and, um, process your meat for yourself. And, ah, your mobile facility is great piece of equipment, but, um, for me, 1 get to a point where I'm gonna have half a dozen sheep, um, I'm gonna want to butcher 'em myself, but it would be nice to use your facility so I can chill 'em, you know, that's what's hard around here. MA: Um-hum. 24 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 RS: Montana — you just hang 'em in the barn — no matter what time of year it is (W it's cold and will chill, I mean, seriously, that's the way it is and, ah, so see it's a great opportunity, but like this gentleman was talking about, you know, who's gonna cut and wrap still — you gotta pay someone to do that, you know, and so it seems like to buy into your coop from the get go as a producer— I'm kinda wondering what I'm gonna get for my money, you know, as opposed to — I don't know if there's any other mobile slaughter units out here. MA: No. RS: There's not. MA: There's not... RS: OK. So... Where I come from there is. MA: Yeah. RS: Yeah, they go out and they do it for ya. But anyway, that was my idea of a coop — using your equipment and facility for our own meat— not so much for retail. MA: Yeah. RS: Thank you. JE: Not so much for retail... RS: Right—for our own self. JE: What we're looking at is really we want to get people's produce — I mean, ah, the producers, meat producers —for them to get into the retail market. RS: And I understand that, yeah. JE: You see? And, and become a viable entity in that respect— it's supplying food for this island — not necessarily just their own —which is good — can, you know, but like what, ah, Mr. DeCoito was saying that if there's families that can accommodate each other and stuff like that—well, maybe that's not what this is for. This is basically - your business getting out there into the market and having good meat out there to put on the table... RS: Yeah. JE: ....for consumers. 25 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 RS: My wife and I used to do about 800 chickens a year. JE: Oh... RS: And so we were getting 'em out in the farmer's market —that's how we were doing it and, um, anyway, but I understand your process and what you guys are trying to do and, ah, I just I wanted to make some comments, that's all. MA: Thank you very much. JE: Thank you. KD: I like add to this too. Like I understand what you said and it's what I was saying, but how, how you going generate one market when to subside this big industry, especially like with cattle or piggeries that a lot of the super markets all contract them out— so you panhandling 'em on the side of the street— labeled... JE: Well, you know, when you look at me basically... MA: I'm not, I'm not following your question — can you repeat that? KD: If you was to slaughter, say, ten pigs, ten cattle... MA: Yeah... KD: ....to sell — to the market— under your own label... MA: Yeah. KD: So you would actually go out there and hustle, right? MA: Yeah, we, in fact we have consumers, um, some of them are retail markets that are coming to us already asking —they're looking for specialty product and that's really the market this is intended to serve. So it's something that's not typically available through the provisioners... KD: [Unclear] like organically grown and not hormones and stuff like that... MA: Yup, yup, yup... KD: ....I understand... MA: Or local or you name whatever the thing is... 26 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W KD: How are they gonna be competitive — see — in businesses, especially with meats and vegetables and everything else — it's supply and demand. MA: Um-hum. KD: If I come up to you and tell you and I tell you I need say 2,000 pounds of meat... MA: Yeah... KD: ....can you guarantee me that? MA: Um-hum. KD: Not every time... So a lot of these small time ranchers they just taking 'em in for market— rather in Honokaa and just slaughter 'em or send 'em mainland. MA: Um-hum. KD: Because the price per pound. MA: Um-hum. KD: You know what I'm sayings — I'm just trying to help you out on this one — I, feel like how he's saying... MA: Yeah. KD: And I feel what auntie's saying. I mean, the, the, the vast way of doing this I thought was going to be positive but what is the difference between me going to J and J or Kulana and just say, eh, you know, what I got one, two pig, cattle. Cut and wrap for me, eh? MA: The, the biggest challenge to those facilities... KD: You know what I mean, versus, yeah, I going have to bag, seal 'em, you know, whatever, label 'em, get 'em certified, try find one market for 'em, but then only to say KTA or wherevers tells me, you cannot supply my demand. But the bigger guys can... MA: Yeah, yeah. KD: You know what I'm saying? So... (W 27 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: So, so, something that's a subtlety in this business model is there's actually several different service offerings, um, the first two tiers of service — the lowest tier is just fee-for-slaughter, so the animal's slaughtered, skinned, eviscerated, chilled and then those — either the halves or quarters are given back to the producer of that animal. The next tier of service up is a fee for slaughter service plus cut-wrap — so same process, slaughter, skin, evisceration, chilled, then those process halves and quarters are cut- wrapped into retail packaging — although they're not technically eligible for retail sale if it's just going back to the producer and they don't have [sounds like HASA Plan] and their own other stuff in place. KD: See, I guess my presumptions was real great. I thought this was going to be for more — like wild, like wild cattle that needs to be taken out—that the hunters and everybody could utilize... MA: Um-hum... KD: ....um, you know, certain places up Mauna Kea, whatever, with the sheep, instead of dropping 'em and eradicating `um, we have this facilities to ensure that, eh, maybe, instead of do it that way— aerial eradication, which is not right —we can kinda get one process going with this facility— this portable facility— where we can get `em out to homeless people or people that need... MA: Yeah... KD: ....subside their income for meat and stuff. MA: Um-hum. KD: Then I look at it as one non-profit —then I look at it as a community-based project where a lot of people just, OK, I get, maybe I get pile pile— meaning I get some sheep, I get some pig, I get some beef— so whole families can come—here we can give 'em out instead of just eradicating `em and leaving them there. MA: Yeah. KD: That's was my intent I thought this was for. TL: That is possible, right? MA: That is possible and in fact that's what we had spoken with Mike Robinson about... TL Right... 28 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: Is doing something like that. TL: OK. JE: You know, you know, this is an investment, OK, so it's not a gimme. This, this just didn't just fall out of the air. This is an investment that a feasibility study had to be done. Numbers had to be worked. The concept had to be proven and we had to do a lot of research — not before me —these guys were, you know, involved heavily in research, you know, in developing this, this project and the thing about it is, is that the state expects a return on their investment. Now, we're not gonna say we're gonna go up there and only, you know, take care of all the sheep and then, you know, give it to the homeless. Who's gonna pay the butchers, who's gonna pay the manager, who's gonna buy the gas? Who's gonna pay for the air conditioning, the back-up generator and all that stuff? Who's gonna pay the transportation costs? OK? So now, we try to see what we can do to accommodate the small —the local folks — OK? If we can get, if they get only one or two pipi and stuff like that OK, you know what, get other people so they make it feasibly cost efficient for us to do business and keep this thing in operation, because if it's only gonna be... TL: Well, that's your collection area idea, right? JE: Yeah, if it's only... KD: And that's, and that's the concept that I really listening to and everything coming out from you is business. See? I don't look 'em as one business — you came up here with the whole — this was one community thing. I no see community— if I going charge the community on our non-profit— see where I'm getting at? JE: Well, I understand, Mr. DeCoito, let me ask you something — how would you run this thing. Give me an idea as to how you would run this... KD: ....because it was a federal grant, county grants to get this mobilizing, right? Get members involved [unclear] local hunters that can pay the $100 and be a part of that membership. When they get this kind stuff like this, eh, we all can utilize this thing, you know, like how we was talking about all this eradication, eradication. Why eradicate 'em and leave 'em dead? Why don't we feed the people with 'em. See, we get plenty. I not saying homeless, but I get plenty people that work and cannot make ends meet. Like, see, lot of times government says oh, go back to your resources. The reason why Ka'u no feel 'em and that's why I tell people this — is Ka'u been living the resources all their life. It's when outsiders come in and say this is what gotta be. No, no, no, no. no. We know how for, we know how 29 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 for survive. How I was looking at this is how about Hilo Town, how about Honoka'a —where people work and they rent or their mortgage is expensive — how they can subside for this —well, you know what, get wild pipi over here. What? Yeah! The local hunters we need to come out there — hunt the game — and in return we have this mobile team funded by federal, funded by the county— that can subsidize your income —for feed your family. Guess what? Now nor more — not too much on the EBT card — so the state going kinda dig this, ah? That's how I was looking at 'em, but what if you start coming bigger and bigger than you going be one other J and J. You're going be one other Kulana. So same thing! And I gotta go market my beef. I gotta go market my own cattle. I no can see this, you know. I cannot. I really thought this was going be one basic for hunters — that hunters can come like — come with one — say and tell these guys at Mauna Kea or Pohakuloa that, eh, you know what, instead of eradicate — I get a bunch of 50 members, hunters, that we need to come and hunt— we need to take some meat— but the rest can go cut and wrap for families that they know— so rather— you — you get nieces or you get nephews — eh, you know what, we going kill about 100 heads today—we going start processing 'em — I going give you pau [sounds like pile] — I go give you — bring your cooler, yeah, you go take care, make sure your mother get, make sure your grandfather get— that kind — that's community. That's non-profit. JE: OK. That's nice too, but what I'm asking you, what I'm asking you is how you gonna pay the butchers, how you're gonna pay for the gas, how you're gonna pay for the air conditioning, how you're gonna pay for all the transportation and what— how you're gonna pay? KD: And that's what I'm trying to get at. JE: That's why the whole idea behind this is to, is to become sustainable. We've become sustainable as a business, but we also accommodating those people that don't have the chance. Like if you get small heads of cattle and stuff like that and you're able to get into J and J and Kulana then you know somebody— because a lot of these folks don't know nobody— so when they're trying to make appointment to get into that facility and stuff, whoa it's months down the road. No! We need our pipi for the party. We need the kalua pig —we want to do that. KD: But, you know, you just stated that I cannot kill one pipi. I gotta kill ten pipi. JE: No, I said, if everybody can get together at a certain location at a certain time... 30 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 KD: I don't know— he no more — he probably— his cattle not ready— her cattle not ready— but I ready for my party! Auntie's ready for her— but now she gotta go hustle her friends — but her friend's not ready. JE: Well, we're basically here... KD: I'm not trying to be negative... JE: Naw, naw, I understand... KD: I trying to make this thing work... But I don't see it working and pay the gas and pay this — what is the federal grant for? What is the county grants for? How can GMAC help you get that funding for get the grants? How can GMAC get the funding through county, since county is actually funding you this. How? MA: The grants that have been provided so far— is that... [Went to mic] Oh, OK—the grants that have been provided so far— they are infrastructure investment grants — so they're actually paying for buying this equipment and integrating it into the meat processing and distribution infrastructure for the island and then the operational costs are what we've been — is part of our charter is that—that is what our service fee schedule has to cover— so our objective is not to make a profit — but to provide those services (W back to the members at or near cost. TL: We're gonna have to move on here, but, one of the things that I think that GMAC can possibly help you with here... MA: Um-hum. TL: ....is, you know, the state under 183D is responsible for distribution of game... MA: Yeah. TL: ....and, um, you know, to satisfy, you know, Kalani's thing about the eradications that are going on... MA: Um-hum TL: ....often times these are conducted by the state and, you know, the state is spending, I mean, we just saw a bill —they want $10 million dollars and there are people asking for$50 million for evasive species and all of this kind of stuff and they're not giving any money to the public for any of this kind of stuff. (W 31 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MA: Yeah. TL: And that's an area that the state needs to startyou know, taking � Y � 9 responsibility for. MA: Um-hum. TL: And this is an area that we can help promote — this is, eh, look, we've got this situation, we're doing this eradication, you know, why not set aside some of this money for the people, since you're taking the game from them in the first place—that's an area that I think that we can be helpful... MA: Yeah. That's exactly the way to look at it. The state and the federal government have now bought the equipment that enables a level of service... TL: Well the federal government are the enablers for all this stuff... MA: Yeah. And they're also spending a lot of money on these other programs so why don't you take a couple of thousand dollars — cover the operational cost of this thing for one day... TL: Yeah. MA: ....and then the hunting can occur, the processing can occur and then the distribution of those meat products go back to the community... TL: And everybody gets paid... NP: Yeah. KD: That's the research I was trying to get at— but I no like tell you guys that research part but that's the research you should be doing in coming to us with GMAC can propose to DLNR or propose to county that, eh, you know, we advise that this is one good program — it's a community based program that needs the funding because it's a process to feed the community. Don't sell it as a profit gaining... You're not going to win this one. Ike: I would think as far as part of your cooperative... MA: Um-hum... IKE: ....that at some point down the road as a program element of this co-op... MA: Um-hum. 32 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W Ike: You might be able to incorporate some of these ideas into your business model, yeah? MA: Yeah, we've been actively discussing it... Ike: OK. MA: .... that's why we're here today and why we had the initiating conversation with Mike. Ike: So, so I don't think it's an exclusive — a mutually exclusive kind of thing — conceptually, um, what he's talking about can fit into a cooperative model, yeah? MA: Um-hum. Ike: Yeah. Thank you. MA: Yeah, We just have to honor our obligation which is to make good on the commitments we made to the Department of Ag —that if they purchased us equipment that we can keep it in operation, um, and the stuff that we're talking about it outside of operation is — OK, so what are the community (W services and benefits this can provide. NP: Yeah, maybe when you're up and running and doing really well and then you can remember what Kalani said and branch out further in those kind of ideas. MA: That is the intention. NP: Yeah. MA: This is that we have to get up and running... NP: Yeah. MA: And unfortunately... NP: Give you a chance... MA: Yeah, there's an economic component of that, that has to be paid attention to... JE: You know one of the things — one of things that I'm involved in at our (W ranch, at Kalala Ranch at Victory Gardens — is training the newest 33 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 ranchers and farmers— that's why we have 4-H, that's why we have scouting, OK, and the thing about it is —we have prime agricultural lands from Hilo —fifty miles of prime agricultural lands from Hilo all the way to Waimea and what are we doing about it? Nothing. You going get rich guys coming in and start buying up the land and not ocean view properties, OK, what we're trying to do here is basically this — and this is why I jumped into this because this tool, this tool is gonna help the meat industry, the production industry— the food industry—we can become self-sustainable people here instead of always just having imports, imports, imports. We need to be sustaining and at the same time be able to export stuff out and at the same time create more jobs — now— this might look like a profiteering type of project, which I don't really see because I, you know, the dividends and stuff is taken care of and it goes back to the investors and stuff and we're here to help people and I can see where it's gonna help me a lot, you know, where eventually we'll have more cattle and there's a reason now to use the land, you know, and use up -- create new ranchers and farmers — not till we have a big industry of meat producers and my goal — I'd like to really see the chicken industry back here on these islands —the chicken and the pig industry especially: we're raising our own pork, raising our own eggs, you know, have meat birds and stuff like that and, and just flood the market and let everybody eat and enjoy local made produce. TL: [Unclear] for everybody, right? JE: Yeah, well, that's the whole idea, yeah? TL: That's right. JE: Feed the people! TL: Ah, yeah, we're gonna have to move on — I have to get my computer and ah... JE: OK. MA: OK. TL: We'd like to follow-up on this with you so we can talk about how we can approach DLNR and some of our legislators about this because, you know, what Kalani is talking about, I think, is a wholesome approach to this too... MA: Yeah... 34 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 TL: ....and they're the ones that are killing all the game — if we can do (W something with it instead of leaving `em to rot... JE: Hey, we're working on this since we started up Pig Hunters of Hawaii. Yeah, remember? TL: Yeah, exactly, twenty-five years ago... JE: You see, so, we know about all that stuff—we fought real hard. TL: Yeah, we've got a lot of background. JE: Yeah. MA: Thanks a lot, Tom. JE: Mahalo everybody. NP: Thank you. TL: Hey, Michael, you ah... MR: You're ready? (W TL: Yes, sir. MR: We're ready. Ah... TL: Do you have a program for us as well? MR: No. I think it paused...Aloha while she's bringing up my Powerpoint, I'm Mike Robinson, I work for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, Land Management Division based here in Hilo, and, ah, I'm the forester of Natural Resource Manager for the Department Land Management Division and I'm responsible for the what we're calling the Aina Mauna lands up on Mauna Kea. It's 56,000 contiguous acres, about 27% of our trust lands and I'd like to share with you this evening a little bit of update on our demonstration game management project we've been working on up there. OK, as I mentioned this was a land management division project and the program is called the Aina Mauna Legacy Program — basically this is a 100 year program —takes us a while to overcome some of the deficiencies that land has up there like gorse — but basically put that land back in the (W productivity that it was in about 150 — 200 years ago. Some folks may not 35 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 clearly understand what the difference is when we say the state, ah, there are many state agencies —we're one of them. Department of Land and Natural Resources is the largest land owner in the state and, ah, we're the third largest landowner in the state, next to Kamehameha Schools is second, but we have a very focused group of constituents —we call them beneficiaries — it's a trust that was set up — DHHL was the results of a federal law passed in 1921 to basically put native Hawaiians back on the land. The mission there is outlined in bold where I thought we could accomplish easiest under land management division, which his to manage the land effectively, but also to develop self-sufficient and healthy communities and the way we try to do that is getting — involving our beneficiaries as best we can — sometimes it takes a little longer than you would expect but the ultimate goal is a community that can live on it's own, be self-sufficient and be healthy in the process. And, of course, Aina Hoopolopolo [sp?] from the land we flourish — that's a basic Hawaiian cultural aspect—that the land —without the land — you don't have much to go with. My goal tonight is to update GMAC about our feral sheep management project, which is really called a demonstration game management project—we started in 2012 —from direction from one of our former commissioners — the idea was that we have feral animals up there —we'd like to manage them — not eradicate them — and because we're gonna start with a particular species — the sheep — but maybe what we learn from that project could extend into other feral animals such as pigs. When we talk about Aina Mauna, again, that's two ahupua'a up there — Humu'ula, which I'm sure many are familiar with, ah, Kemakolu/Mana Road runs right through the middle of Humu'ula and then the Pi'ihonua — they call Pi'ihonua mauka —which used to be the old Doc Stanley place before we took it back in the early 90s. I'm sure many of you have seen a lot more sheep than this on the side of Saddle Road, but the idea with this is to begin managing our sheep on the mountain. Anytime you want to do something, you sort of plan you work, you work your plan and then you adapt as necessary because anybody's that's had to go through planning and working, you know you run into things unexpected — and that's where the adaptation is important. As originally proposed, we had hoped to do recreational hunting in the area and, ah, when we brought an advisor group together in 2012, primarily beneficiaries, um, hunting was felt that would be a key way to help manage the populations of sheep that are up there and so, because of the proximity of the road, obviously we want to do archery only— but we - one of the key things was to bring out children, our youth, our keiki's back into the hunting fold, teach 'em skills and more importantly from these old timer hunters was teach these young kids some ethics—they way hunting should be done properly. Obviously, kids ten to fourteen had to be accompanied by an adult, ah, Big Island beneficiaries — that's who we represent as a trust— we don't represent all Hawaiians —we only represent beneficiaries of the trust—which is 50% blood quantum or higher— but as some of these beneficiaries say, well, what about my wife, 36 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 she's not even Hawaiian, or what about that Japanese guy from Oahu I've (W been hunting with since I was a kid — so we adjusted the plan to say, OK, beneficiaries get first choice, but they can bring a guest of their choice — that would accommodate non-beneficiaries family members and in fact, even a potential, a future beneficiary who's under 18, but because they're under 18 they don't qualify as a beneficiary of the trust yet, ah, they must be on our DHHL list, you can be in theory a beneficiary of the trust— have the 50% blood quantum, but we don't have any ability to prove that unless you go through the Hawaiian Homes bidding process, meaning you have to get signed up on the list, so rather than duplicate that process with this little demonstration project, we ask that you be on our list to qualify for this project and all hunters — beneficiaries— have to take a hunter safety class and have a valid hunter license, OK, we don't want to recreate a wheel — DOFAW, DLNR has a good process in place — safety etc. we want to emulate that and just use that existing process as well. All the beneficiaries would have been entered into a lottery and selected for a particular season and seasons would be about 8 to 15 days and might include two weekends, just to accommodate people's work schedules and that was originally proposed, um, we'd also wanted to do a balanced approach. We were gonna do hunting recreation, ah, we wanted to do restoration, the pu'us up there that are pretty much a bunch of fireweed now, we want to do — seal them off from the existing sheep herds and restore them in the native plants that used to be there. We— there's a great deal of pride as you drive Saddle Road —what a wonderful thing to see these pu'us restoring themselves but also look at the sheep herds in the near vicinity and we would focus on koa and iliahi, which we found some still remaining up there in mamane cause that's what fits that country. And we have to get a crew to do this but we'd also hope that the hunters would give back so not only would you be able to hunt, but if you hunted and were successful you'd give back to the land and volunteer to plant trees and build fences and take care of that reforestation part— and then we had some —we actually had some Ph.D. beneficiaries who want to do research and prove that animals could co-exist with native plants but, um, but the key thing is how many sheep can the land support. Obviously, the whole contested thing on Mauna Kea came because some folks, especially a federal judge, said there were too many sheep up there. We don't want a federal judge making our own decisions so we want to do research what's the appropriate amount of land of, of, sheep that a given area up there can support and then in this particular across from the sheep station. How can the herd be improved? Quit taking the best rams and leaving the pollies [sp?] —we want to improve the genetics — we want to have the best animals in the state, if possible, and, um, and then the research would — I had originally planned to put about— create a couple of paddocks and put 50-100 sheep in them — study them over 10 years — see what they eat, see what they don't eat— maybe put some plants out there and we actually had a goal like can we train these sheep don't eat native 37 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 plants so no more problems with the conservations but that was a long term goal — OK, again, this was as proposed and then we found out that gee, maybe we couldn't implement it as planned. This is a picture of the way it was originally planned, ah, you can see the balance of hunting, of course, had the most acres, but restoration was close behind with some research areas. You can see there on the map there the new Saddle Road alignment and the sheep herd hangs out— I don't know if we have a mouse here that I could point with — no I don't— but anyways, um, along the Saddle Road alignment you can see the pu'us—those kind of circles in the picture. So work your plan and adapt as necessary. We've had to do some adaption, why? Because as a state agency we don't have the ability to manage hunting on our lands. This was just a glitch in the law and quoted the law there and you referred to it earlier, ah, 183D, only DLNR shall manage and administer the wildlife and only they can enforce laws and we found that out in hind sight so we had to adapt this project that we wanted to move forward and the way we adapted it was we turned it into a trapping exercise. Now originally, we thought there were about a thousand sheep... TL: Excuse me, [unclear], can I [unclear] for a second there? Um, when DLNR says that they manage hunting — aren't they talking about hunting for the public? You're talking about only for our captive audience, right? MR: No, no, they, they're entitled under another section of the law to manage all hunting on public lands... TL: OK. MR: ....and we are a public lands, even though we're a separate agency, we're still considered public land. And that's the glitch. So we wanted to and obviously again with Hawaiian values, we wanted to create a perpetual food source— so we wanted to reduce the resident herd — and those animals up there were way too many we felt—they were running across the road and getting hit— again the pu'us are just fireweed now, um, hardly any vegetation left up there —when they hit that area hard they graze it down to nothing and really create a lot of dust so, ah, we felt that we had to take that herd down at 350 animals and again, that was assuming we could fence that area and keep them in that 700 acre parcel that we had outlined on the map — so what we did and do it via live trapping, we'd set up traps, we'd drive groups of sheep into the traps, we'd select and separate animals for removal —take out about 650 of that herd and then retain 350. Now, we also felt that if you volunteered and we don't have money to pay for anybody to come up there and help us —this was all a volunteer effort, um, that if you volunteered and you came up and your blood, sweat and tears went into helping us do this, you would get 70% of the animals to be removed, but we also realized that within our 38 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 communities some people can't do that— they're old, they're ill, they got (W work— whatever— so, at least 30% would be given to our Big Island community associations. OK? And then we would improve the herd genetics in the process and keep the best for breeding and then we'd also approve the generatios [sp?] — if you look at that herd right now—they [unclear] probably 40 — 60, maybe 50-50, males to females cause there's really been no gender management in that herd, in fact, it's probably, ah, well, anyways, and if you read the, um, an appropriate sheep herd — like a feral shepherd management on the mainland — 20% males are very capable of servicing 80% females — you watch those poor females being chased around by seven rams at a time, by the time they Iamb they're so weak the Iambs die, the rams aren't healthy, the females aren't healthy— we want a healthy herd — so we wanted to improve the generatios [sp?], and, of course, we want to involve the communities and piece the keikis in the whole process. But how do we go about doing this? Well, again, we focus on those three goals of reducing the herd. We tried five times to, ah, trap these animals, we had volunteers go up, they set up traps, set up wind fences, ah, we tried twice with on the ground ATVs — people on the ground — we learned how hard it was to get these animals to go where we want them —we've actually had situations — I think you were there that first time and we actually had, ah, probably the only reason we had as many sheep captures as we did cause we had people willing to leap into the air as they jumped over their head and tackled them to hold them down and, ah, so after two tries, again we adapted, and we said, maybe we can do this a little easier and so we hired a helicopter to help us and three [unclear] on the right show the results of our helicopter efforts and you can see the number of volunteers — started out at 17 and it went to 20, dropped to 19 because everybody was getting tired of going up there and chasing sheep but then all of a sudden we started having success — people —the word got out— gee they're really doing this and as a result we had very good capture results and very good participation, um, so totals to date, ah, we've captured 779, which was close to our goal, we've released 108 of those and we estimate we have about 330 left— we were shooting for 350 and we're done for last year, um, distribution, again, 70-30, we gave out just a little over 70% for the volunteers that showed up but the communities showed up and hauled off, ah, pretty close to our goal of 30% and just some pictures of how we gave it away, um, and, and, the comment earlier about how do you give these away— we don't give away meat—the department doesn't give away meat— we give away live animals — so anybody that volunteers, before they set foot on the property, they sign a waiver release saying that they're going on our property— they can't hold us liable if something happens to 'em — then any person that takes an animal — signs up before the animal is taken and says, this is a live, healthy animal and I have — there's no liability to the trust— if I take this live animal I can then do what I want to it— I can give it to auntie — I can kill it on the spot —well however you do it, but then it becomes their 39 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 liabilities, so, obviously, they have to handle the meat properly and, you know, unfortunately, in today's world we got a lot of hunters know how to handle meat—they've been doing it for like 10,000 years but in today's world of lawyers we have to protect ourselves and make sure we don't put anybody at risk, and so that's the way we're doing it, um, and by the way the gentleman on the right is a resident of Milolii, so we've given meat to Milolii, Ka'u, Waimea, Kona, ah, it's a very fair exercise in trying to distribute this meat as fairly as possible to communities and to those who participate. You see the live animals— at the Department of Ag — if the animals, ah, younger than 18 months old, we can give it away live. If it's over 18 months it has to be tracked for disease purposes. Any animal — and we check the teeth and make sure that the animal is an appropriate age — and so any animal that's over 18, ah, gets killed on the spot. Any animal under that we can give away or its decision —they can kill it on the spot. We've also released animals, again, for the genetics of that, ah, we're, in all, again, we're dealing with a hunting community, they like to see the big rams so they tend to like let the rams go and keep we keep the ewes but we're trying to work that down a little bit again to target that 20- 80% ratio, and you can see the average ages there of the animals that we've trapped. This is three examples of the rams we've released, OK? This is the kind of genetics — I think that animal on the left was, ah, 8, 9 months old or something, I mean, I'm a real genetics— I mean, I may be wrong on that baby— maybe 18 months, but still, it's a very, very young animal and the guys when they looked at the teeth on that bugger, were really happy to see that and when you, it's funny, when you let these animals go — they're like jumping the whole way out and they turn around and look at you like, are you serious? You're letting me go? Yeah, no problem — and they disappear. And I've heard people look at that herd recently and say, hey, gee, it's looking pretty good out there. Now we also involve the communities, like I said, and teach the keikis and that last thing —teach the kiekis is real important— because this next slide, ah, in my opinion is something that we probably don't enjoy seeing. This is three Web posts that our volunteers captured —these are individuals that have gone up there at night— the center one — I think there's, ah, there's three ram's heads here and maybe you can't read that, but I'm gonna read it— it says, um, something about three to start the night, or something like that, um, maybe I didn't put that one in there, but these, oh, there, the one on the right, three down to start the night— three ram's heads and then we know as hunters —well, I know the hunters sometimes get on the conservation community for shooting animals and leaving `em —that headless carcass at the bottom is a result of one of the poachers that are out there — and they're calling themselves hunters —they're not hunters — so our hunting community has to get on these guys too, cause we don't have the ability to control that as well as everybody driving Saddle Road, so, as a community, as a hunting community, it, it behooves us to crack down on these kinds of guys that have no clue about what it really means 40 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 to be hunter. And so with that, I want to thank everybody that's been helping with this project, our advisory group has put a lot of time and effort (W into it, our volunteers - absolutely, um, and our community leaders that are helping us move this forward to our commission, which is giving us the green light to try, obviously, our hunting community which we hope will eventually benefit from this effort, ah, while we focus on our lands, hopefully, this can extend to other lands and, ah, and thank you all for the time to come and talk to you. TL: I have a couple of questions for you, um, and I don't know if this is part of what you are interested in getting into, but, we've been hearing various rumors about police at Kipuka Aina Hou, which I understand is Hawaiian Homes as well, right. MR: That's correct. Kipuka Aina Hou is part of Hawaiian Homes... TL: Thirteen, er, ah, fifteen or 18,000 acres... MR: Eleven thousand — slightly over 11,000... TL: OK... Ah what's happening at Kipuka Aina Hou? MR: Well we had another lease to DLNR, ah, from '92 to 2012. The lease expired, ah, they approached us recently and they've been operating the land, ah, in sort of a continuous agreement. They'd like to renew that license with us. Our process is that, ah, if somebody approaches us to license our lands —to use our lands for a long time — we put it infront our commission. But before it goes in front of our commission though, we do beneficiary consultations and this is a recent, oh, I think maybe a couple three years old that, that we're required to invite all of our beneficiaries from that area to parcipate in a meeting such as this, a forum —they listen to the project and then they give us their mana'o back on how they feel about it. We had two beneficiary consultations and meetings last month — one in Waimea — one in Hilo and, ah, the beneficiaries came out and voiced their opinions about renewing that license with DLNR. So the process right now is, ah, our planning division, which manages those beneficiary consultations is in the process of writing that up in a formal way— minutes and so forth —they can then present it to the commission and the commission can choose to make a decision or not. TL: Do you have a timeline on that at all? MR: I don't, um, I know DLNR has asked me, you know, how do we let the hunters know whether it's a go or not go — like I March 1 st, I think, is the beginning of the season up there, ah, I'm not a decision maker and I don't 41 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 know all the legal ramifications but, in my opinion, until a decision is made one way or not— we're still in the status quo — but whether DLNR chooses to go there or not—that's their kuleana to make that decision — so it's — it's sort of an unknown area right now— as it hasn't been the last 20 years — but that's the best I can tell you is we're evaluating their proposal and hopefully a decision will be made. TL: Shortly... MR: As soon as possible, you know, but... TL: Well, ah, coming March 1St, [sounds like Andrea's] —there's been nothing published anywhere that we're aware of, you know, [unclear] so it would just be business as usual until somebody says, you know, or, we're ending this lease and you got 30 days to whatever—that typical —just—those a thirty day month-to-month, right? MR: Ah, well, again, um, we've been operating on our continuous last license and if DLNR, after being at those consultation meetings and hearing the feedback from the beneficiaries, if they choose to continue, as they were under the license — that would be their choice. TL: OK. Anybody else? KD: I get couple. I mean, thank you, that was a good presentation. MR: Thank you, you're welcome, sir. KD: Um, disability, like people that like hunt but, you know, disabled, stuff like that— you guys get plans for that? Like if they could take one ATV in cause they get one hard time walk or they allowed for hunt? You get some kind of plan for that, too? MR: Not right now, but I, 1 mean, I work for this trust because I think that the people I work for, the beneficiaries of the trust, have their feet solidly on the ground, many of them — most of them —the majority of them. And they bring a lot of common sense to the table. They're also an ohana — a family — and they know that they have to accommodate members of their families differently and so, once we get through these hard, initial things of figuring out how to, you know, do it all properly— then I see opportunities to expand it to, you know, like you say ATVs or, I mean, I don't see us building, you know, handicapped access things... KD: No, no. [Unclear] 42 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MR: But certainly, I mean, and I'm hoping that this will be a decision that the (W beneficiaries involved will make, OK, not staff like myself, who is not a beneficiary, I'm not even part-Hawaiian — that, that folks will be empowered enough to make smart decisions about how can we engage as many of our ohana into this opportunity as possible because you — we all know that it can be a very rewarding experience to bring home the bacon — bring home the meat, right? Whether you go to Safeway and unload the groceries from the car because it's with your hard earned dollar you work for all week or whether it's going up on the mountain and chasing after something and bringing it home like that. So, hopefully, somewhere down the road, that will happen, what you just said, if, if, those, if that, if those folks want that to happen. HK: OK. My name is Harry Kalua. I'm a beneficiary of the homestead land, fourth generation, OK, so, I have a big concern and my concern is if you folks look at the media, you folks see what's happening. I really get concerned that's why I go to different meetings and see what they had. get one question to ask Mike. Mike? The community you're talking about is a community in general or you talk to all the beneficiary communities on this whole island — that your presentation that you had tonight. MR: Well, when, yes, the answer is yes. Before we —we had, actually, we had beneficiary consultations, ah, back, I believe, around 2013 — maybe 2014 — ah, and we were prepared to move forward the hunting idea in the (W commission and actually we had, we had on the commission's agenda, June — might have been 2014 — and that's when the AG informed us that we could not hunt our own lands without permission from DLNR—that's when we switched gears and made it a trapping effort. Prior to that—those formal beneficiary consultations — not the one last month — but the ones a couple of years ago in Waimea and Hilo when we had outstanding support for this project— prior to that and that was right when the beneficiary consultation wall was just passed — so I wasn't aware of what we needed to do — I went to every —well, not every— but I went to probably about four or five, maybe even six community association meetings and made a presentation similar to this, ah, Ka'u, Panaewa, Keaaukaha, Waimea, Kona, Kawaihae, OK? And, and made the same presentation. Attendance was, you know, mixed, ah, Waimea had more than Kawaihae, but, but, we felt that we got the same response back, ah, well, we got good response — then we went to beneficiary consultations, again, we got good response. So the communities were aware — have been aware of this project and haven't heard anything negative about how this project's moving forward. I've heard a little bit about the distribution of the meat thing, you know, how come it's 70 — 30, whatever... HK: Yeah, I not going into that. 43 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 MR: Yeah, OK. HK: OK, Mike, I not going into that. OK. I just concerned, because DLNR had 9 9 J done this. You explained about the east and west had the meeting — now it expired in 2012. MR: We're talking Kipuka Aina Hou, right? HK: Yes. MR: Yes, OK. HK: OK. So all of these —they had three areas they had the lease. What three areas —tell everybody here —what three areas they had the lease on? MR: Yeah, ah, the Kipuka Aina Hou is the largest— 11,000 — I think where you get that number 13,000 —they're two more parcels mauka in the Mauna Kea Forest Reserve that are actually our lands but, you know, they built the new fence, ah, most of the way, ah, that fence divides part of our lands and again, that was part of, but it was the old fence line, which is why we agreed to let that new fence go in on the old fence line, because even though that's our lands up mauka — no sense, ah, remaking the fence in a different place — so we just went ahead and put the fence line where it is. Now those other two parcels are about the 1,000, 1,500 acres, I think, that Mr. Kalua is talking about. HK: OK. The reason why I asking all that question — now it tells me, when the lease expired in 2012 — they coming before the commission and the Hawaiian Homes again along with beneficiary consultation —who was responsible, who was liable or the liability from 2012 to 2016? MR: Well, it's my understanding DLNR because the way they explained it to me was that it— it was a continuance of their existing license between the two agencies. Now, I, I've never managed those areas, I have never been responsible for Kikuko Aiona Hour or those make lands... HK: OK. MR: Yve only, I've always focused on the 42,000 acres that was not under license... HK: Sorry for being out of the agenda — Mike, are you the managing person for that whole 56,000 acres up on that Mana legacy? MR: I am, I am when things get heated and people have problems —then all of a sudden I'm responsible for all of it... 44 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W HK: No, no, no, I... MR: But normally I'm responsible, but normally, the last thirteen years I've been with the trust, I've been told to focus on the 42,000 acres because the other piece was under license to DLNR. HK: OK. Mike. That's what I'm saying. You supposed to know everything because number one, you know, I apologize, you know, to everybody here — you getting paid for it. Now, when people like us come by beneficiary, come by and ask questions and want some information — we want honest answers, because we cannot make it right— now you tell the group here, after everything is done on that mountain —who's supposed to be located on the mountain? MR: Eventually, the beneficiaries are supposed to be located on the mountain. HK: Thank you. [Unclear] MR: That's our mission —that's our mission. HK: Thank you — stop right there. DLNR had twenty years — 1992 to 2012 to do whatever they did. If I ask you, you know, you, you can answer me but you write it down. If I ask you, I want to audit that whole property— can (W you tell me from day one when you started the program how the — because I want to know— I want to know why DLNR want 20 more years, you know how old I'm gonna be, Mike? Ha? And I'm on the lease, and I not go cry— I was under this 50 years or 40 years — I not worrying about myself anymore. I worrying about my children, my grandchildren, my great grandchildren. That's what I worrying about. I talking for myself. I not talking for the whole community and if they video me — they get the message — they can call me because I'm here to make things all right. You can build anything on that mountain — 56,000 acres — the next golden question I get for you — how many beneficiary are on the lease as of today? MR: Ah, um, we have, ah, let me explain a little bit more about Hawaiian Homes. About 70% of our lands is what we call unencumbered. Only about 30% of our lands are actual homesteaded and licensed for 99 years to beneficiary leases and usually they're in communities like Keaukaha, Panaewa and on Oahu, for example. OK. 70% is not licensed and as I said 27% is up on Mauna Kea. The reason for that is — when they created the trust we didn't get all the prime lands, OK, we got some pretty junk lands and, and, for example, ah, Holua Piihonua Aina Mauna was under a lease to Parker Ranch from 1902 to 2002. So only in 2002 did we even (W have the right to get that land back and start managing it thirteen years 45 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 ago. Again, I, when I first came on board I got the mission — OK, let's get the homesteaders on the land in some way, shape or form — now I've, I'm a forester, I don't build communities, I don't build roads and [unclear] ah, you know, fireplug, or, you know, water, ah, you know, infrastructure, sidewalks, whatever— so, how can I get beneficiary—well, one of the very first contractors I hired — Duke Kapnoiae —was to help me clean gorse in 2002, 2003, 2004. One of the first koa loggers I hired was —wasn't a beneficiary, but he was from Keaaukaha... HK: No, he's a beneficiary. MR: Pani Ulama? HK: Right. MR: OK. Pani Ulama's a beneficiary— so I got him on that land. So every step on the way we've tried to engage beneficiaries in the process, just like explained with the sheep project. And the Aina Mauna Plan has 1,000 acres set aside for homesteading — it's just that we don't have the money to go up and build it right now... HK: OK, Mike, Mike. MR: But we're trying, we're trying to get beneficiaries... HK: OK. We can go all the way to 2:00 in the morning, but stop right there. I just wanted to prove a point because you had 70 -30 up there. ?: Hum... HK: OK, talking about cattles, talking about everything. I really appreciate if you communicate with everybody and get people ready, because I going tell you right now. There's only one legal person, [sounds like astorial] person, family, is on that mountain. And it's the one that you go off the access road — Mana —that's the Kaniho family over there on the right... ?: Right... HK: And I no go say anything more — so if that family can be on there—then you go do me one favor— go find out how many more can join him along that line so we can go to the lease and get one — if you tell me thirty property— so us 900 acres, 300 acres each — and you tell me we can get 30 people on that property or 20 or whatever it is — I like see the department put 'em on — because they'll never go on there if everybody else going do what they want to do up there. So you finish what you're supposed to do — you're supposed to give one thorough report of what 46 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 happened — so I requested for the DLNR give one tall report—audit—for (W 20 years what did they do up there. And if it's hunting and everything is in place — it's no problem. All you slides here it works [not speaking in mic] if you do. That's what I'm saying. We cannot talk, we cannot let the years go by without you knowing we in 2017, we stay 2016, so it's really important that all of these [sounds like happy] and that's why I have to say that— just came here —walking around — I saw had one meeting in here — and find out, that sitting, sitting down and I find out it's game management — Mauna Kea! Nobody told us there was going — maybe it was in the media — I don't have newspaper so who tells me. You see what I mean? Communication is the biggest failure, but, I just like you know and I like verybody know and I apologize, I sorry for if I interrupt you what you said but I think it's important that we — the beneficiary— got be start putting on the land. I get no problem when you lease 'em — you should be — one consulting I like you put up there but I going tell you something —that mountain is gold. You telling the bosses nothing but if somebody started the gorse it's gonna be something and I know what get up on that mountain and all I telling you and the people here —that mountain is the gold —they gave us junk land and all — but it's a gold. Thank you. TL: OK. All right, so, thank you. Ike: I have a question, um, Mike, you know, I again, um, ah, acknowledge your efforts to put game management in the mix here, um, as part of the lease (W negotiations for these parcels that were just talked about, ah, and I don't know what those leases look like right now, so, I, 1 may be repeating something that's in the lease already— is there a possibility that there is an emphasis put on, ah, forcing or providing that whoever leases this property include as part of this provisions, ah, the management of game within it or is that gonna be contrary to, um, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and USDA and all of those guys. MR: I'm a little confused by your question. Are you talking Kipuka Aina Hou... Ike; Yes... MR: ....lease, license. And license — it's not gonna be a 65 year lease — it's gonna be like a, maybe, max 20 license... Ike; OK. As part of the license... MR: OK. If it's a — if it's a, um, if it's a license, we can, we have much flexibility in what we can do, OK, um, but as you heard from Mr. Kalua, um, it would be, it would be very improbable that a non-beneficiary would be given access to those lands up there... (W 47 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 Ike: No, no, I'm not talking about me. MR: OK. So.. Ike: I'm talking about the beneficiaries... MR: OK. So we got a beneficiary up there in a license situation, OK? Ike: Um-hum. MR: Yes, we can make licenses do whatever we want them to do... Ike: I'm speaking about these three state licenses —the DLNR licenses... MR: Yes, and, it's, let's say, let's say, let's just make up an idea that they— so a beneficiary came in and said, "I don't want DLNR to get 'em, but I want to get 'em." And they were convinced and they convinced the commission that that was a good place to be for the trust— it would benefit the trust and all the beneficiaries to award them to this particular individual or entity who also was happened to be a beneficiary. And the license terms could include — yes, you have to allow public hunting to occur on that land. Now the decision —well the commission [unclear]... Ike: I'm not there... MR: I'm sorry, I thought you asked that. Go ahead... Ike: What I am asking is — let's say DLNR, ah, is granted a license at Kipuka Aina Hou — as part of that license could DHHL include some provisions in there that says you must do game mammal, um, management? MR: OK. In a, in a trapping situation — live taking — no problem. In a hunting situation — not without DLNR permission. Ike: Yeah, so, since DLNR is going to be the licensee... MR: Assuming they would be the licensee... Ike: Right... MR: Assuming that they would renew the license with DLNR... Ike: Assuming all that... MR: DLNR could continue to do what they've been doing... 48 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 TL: What I think he's asking is can you insist that they do game management? MR: Oh, yeah, yeah. You mean above and beyond the game management levels been doing for the last twenty years? Yeah. Ike: No, you know, they haven't done much, right? MR: No, yeah, I mean, you know, I, I've looked at a lot of our leases and licenses over the years and I come from a background of very strong contractural language and, um, um, I always think that you can improve upon past efforts with experience that you've gained since the last time you wrote something like that and obviously things change as well — so we've learned a lot in the last fifty years... , Ike: So in keeping with this... MR: And we can include those as clauses, yes. Ike: So in keeping with this Aina Hou... MR: Aina Hou... Oh, I'm sorry... Ike: You know, your motto here... MR: Oh. Ike: From the land we flourish... MR: Yes. Ike: So how, how would we, um, impact such a provision in the lease or the license? MR: Well... Ike: How could we as the Game Management Advisory Commission? MR: Well, you know, first of all you could support the effort to manage the animals in a way that maximize the animals on the land without destroying the land, OK? What's the proper carrying capacity of the animals on that piece of property... Ike: So how do we get that message to you guys? MR: Well, you could write a letter to the commission and say, you know, we, we, we like your idea of managing — your demonstration game 49 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 management— and we hope you get to continue that and we hope the beneficiaries agree with our position and they get more involved. That's a great way to support what we're trying to do up there... Ike: So, so, so when the leases or the licenses for Kipuka Aina Hou and the other two parcels come up — how do we make sure that or, or will you sort of assure us that you'll put those provisions in so that we understand that if they are to be used as a game area that game management is in fact practiced up there... MR: Well, OK, that's assuming that our commission decides to renew the license... Ike: Yeah, I, 1... MR: If they decide to renew the license — if they take on the decision after hearing the beneficiary consultations— and they make that decision to renew that license—then, then it becomes a negotiation point where we can negotiate things with DLNR that we feel are important to include that maybe weren't included last time. Ike: So, so how do we make sure that, that, ah, DLNR is apprised of the interest? MR: Make your wishes known to both of us and we can say, hey, guess what the GMAC guys said. We— makes sense to me — makes sense to you? Yeah, fine... Ike: OK... MR: ....let's make a clause that the lawyers are happy with... Ike: Thank you... TL: And our Game Management Commission... MR: OK. Thank you for your time, I appreciate it. NP: Thank you. TL: OK, ah, Mark? MB: Yeah, I'm here, Tom... TL: OK. Um, do you want to say a few words here about some of our efforts that went on with the commission as far as legislative... 50 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 (W 4. Legislative Activities to date. Status of the four major bills GMAC is engaged in. MB: Ah, yeah, ah, sure, I'll start that process. I think the, ah, everybody knows this session is obviously— the session is going — so, um, there's a couple bills that, that, ah, the commission has kinda sponsored and supported and others that are probably, ah, we oppose with lots of vigor and, ah, Tom's got 'em listed here on the agenda, so, if we start with the HB 1041 which was actually, um, is, is moving forward, I believe, I don't know where it stands today, but, um, it actually is a bill that establishes a statewide game commission, um, charter is narrower than GMAC commission — it's focused simply on game and the management of game, um, this advisory commission it was made up, I think, of two members from the Big Island and one from Maui, Molokai, ah, Lanai, ah, Oahu, and Kauai. So, ah, that would constitute the commission, ah, with the um the chair of DLNR as a non-voting member, right, um, the idea behind that bill was, ah, I mean, we're a county commission, right, um, and what you hear a lot of dialogue around here is what is DLNR doing, what are they not doing, what is U.S. Fish & Wildlife doing, um, this, this commission was to actually give advice to the Board of DLNR, um, our thoughts. So it kind of elevated the county commission up one level and fed right into DLNR at the board level with the Chair as a member of this commission, ah, we (W tried that last year, um, it got stopped, um, actually this year we've had lots of rounds of dialogue with the present leadership of DLNR and, ah, actually they're pretty supportive of the bill, um, it, um, made it through Land & Water last year, ah, got stopped at Judiciary, um, we have, are in Judiciary now with some amendments and, um, hopefully, it makes it out of that—we go to Finance and then over to the Senate, so, um, ah, a lot of people put a lot of hard work into that one and I think it is, ah, definitely something that will be highly beneficial to the hunting community of the state, right. HB799, um, is one we oppose, ah, without significant amendment— let me put it that way— 799, um, is actually an attempt by the state to give them an exemption to the current law that exists on the books that allows them to fly and shoot. The way the bill was written, ah, it gave them pretty much free rein to do what and when and how they wanted to, um, which we highly oppose. That bill has actually moved out of Judiciary as well, strong testimony from the hunting community, as well as, a whole bunch of other groups, um, hopefully, that bill gets amended to the point one —one, it doesn't move forward — it gets voted down or number two, it gets amended to the point where the use of a helicopter to manage game or eradicate game is significantly limited to just places like Kahoolawe, right? Where you've got a goat issue and you need to remove the goats from (W Kahoolawe and, um, the way to do it is with the helicopter, um, that ones 51 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 actually moved out of the Judiciary— it's probably in Finance, um, it's ready to pass over to the House — or to the Senate, excuse me. Tom, I'm gonna let you speak on... TL: It's actually gone to the senate... MB: Yeah, it has? OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tom, you're probably more versed on 1754 and where that one stands than I am. So I'll let you take that on... TL: Yeah, 1754 was a apprentice license bill and, ah, this bill got heard, ah, the same day in the house and in the senate, um, in the house in the morning and the senate in the afternoon —there are two versions of the bill —we had agreement with DLNR in this bill and they came in ,and, ah, sort of changed their focus, ah, on it. What the bill does is an apprentice license where, um, Mike was talking about, for example, you know, taking these kids out to go hunting, ah, you can take somebody who hasn't been hunting before — you could introduce to hunting without them having to go through a Hunter Ed course first— as an apprentice. You could, you know, take them out and introduce them to it— whether it be a kid or a spouse or a neighbor, you know, that hadn't been hunting before and wanted to know what was going. You could say, "Yeah, you want to come along?" You could do that and you could renew that license for one year. On the house side, it allowed for an adult to also be an apprentice, um, and on that bill and DLNR fought that vigorously. They didn't want to have anybody over 18 being involved in the apprentice, and the unfortunate thing about that for us is that it's nice to be able to include women in these apprentices. Women control who goes to the football game, they control who goes fishing, you know, it's just an integral part of most families and recreation is part of their kuleana — so we wanted to have, you know, women to be, well, it— somehow, the bill, the house bill got stopped in Finance. It came out of Judiciary and, I'm sorry— it came out of Water& Land and was not heard in Judiciary. Whereas on the senate side, it passed through Water& Land and is now moving over to the JDL or Judiciary in the, on the — now the senate side, ah, DLNR was successful in keeping it limited to H10 through 17 and so — in a one year— a license for one year and then one following. So we're working on that, um, there's also a, um, resolution, a senate concurrent resolution, which is supporting game animals, game birds, fishing resources, ah, in order to promote sustainability, ah, in other words they recognize that our Constitution —this is an interesting bill, actually, they recognize our Constitution, recognize our game animals as a natural resource, ah, in this resolution and they wanted to promote sustainability, food security and to preserve long term local and cultural practices, which, ah, Mike was talking about earlier as well, and, um, so this bill is gonna be heard March 2 and those of you that do testimony on line we encourage you all to that. This is an important— it recognized that game is important. And we have an invasive species bill 52 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 that's out there and Tony's not here —there's an invasive species bill out (W there that says that, um, the department can go into private land, hunting lands, forest areas— anywhere — and if it's a hunting, if it's a deer or something like this that, or a sheep or a goat— they could just walk right in and consider invasive and get rid of it, and, um, so it's a pretty onerous bill. Now, Cliff Tsuji — those of you who know who Cliff is — and Richard Onishi —they killed that bill on the house side but there's still a version of it over on the senate. So if you ever have a chance to thank them for their efforts on the house side it would be greatly appreciated because a very bad bill — very onerous. ?: [Not speaking in mic] TL: I'm sorry? ?: [Not speaking in mic] TL: Ah, you know, I was afraid you were gonna ask... NP: I got it— it's S132799, SD1. TL: Invasive species one? (W NP: Yes. TL: Yeah. NP: Got that? TL: OK, so, that's, um, where we're at, we're looking for support testimony from any and all of you, ah, I know, recognize people in here that have been helpful, ah, so we appreciate all that you've done, you know, on the 799, for example, we had 188 testimony, ah, is overwhelming and is very good. The apprentice license has a lot of support as well, so we appreciate that. Any questions on any of these things, otherwise we should probably move on here — is there any new business. OK, I have one item of new business if nobody else does and that is that next month, ah, you know that our rules and regulations just got reinstated right, and they didn't change anything, we're still as messed up, you know, we have a little more hunting days and everything's back to normal, but, lot of other things that they've neglected. DLNR is gonna open up the rules and regs again so we're gonna be able to go back and start making changes and their idea is to get a committee together of people who are willing to sit down and help, you know, what rules need to be changed as a group — so this is group of regulations that, you know, we'd like to change and I have (W some that I'd like to have changed — caliber restrictions and propellant 53 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 restrictions and things like that, um, archery—those of you who archery— if you have a [sounds like judo point] or whatever in your quiver— that's illegal, I mean, there's a lot of stuff and it doesn't make sense, um, you know, having 1200 foot pounds of muzzle energy in order to go where people are shooting animals with air guns and they have 200 of 'em and they're still dying, so, you know, we have a lot of ridiculous rules, I mean, so they're gonna come here next, ah, on March 22 or 21 st, whatever our next meeting is, ah, and they're gonna bring to us how they want to proceed with that, ah, effort and involve the public with that initially, um, so, I mean, that's my new business issue, ah, anybody have anything else? Any committee reports? Mark? Jonathan? Kalani? Everybody's good? Ike? Ike: Unfinished business... TL: OK. Ike: You know, we talked a few months ago about adopting these rules? TL: Yes. Ike: So I just want to finish that off so we have done that. TL: We're, yeah, we can. If we could work with you prior to that— get some format down first and bring it here —the — and Ike if you want to have someone help you with that— I'd be happy to do that. Ike: OK. TL: So we'll give that to Belinda and... BC: [Not speaking in mic] we are going to mirror, some, um, another advisory commission's rules and then make it specific to this commission. TL: OK. I'd like — I agree with Ike — I think we need to finish this up and come with a framework that we can just look at and get out to our commissioners and more or less have discussion on it and vote on it, OK. All right— so we'll put that on the agenda for next... Mark? Anything? MB: No, I'm good, Tom, thanks... TL: Jonathan... BC: Tom, this Bobby Command, I have one announcement. Ryan Kohatsu has resigned. 54 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 TL: That's correct. BC: So we need to fill hisosition if there's anyone that P � an of you know who Y Y might be interested, please have them fill out a form — it's available on the Mayor's website, or you can ask us and we can get you one. TL: OK. That was District 2, is that correct? BK: Ah, three... TL: Three... BC: Three... TL: Anybody here from District 3? Do you want to move to District 3? ?: [Someone not speaking in mic] TL: Waikea-uka, yeah... ?: [Someone not speaking in mic] TL: No, Tony was and he left, and Ryan was here and he moved... So Waikea-uka, um... OK. Well, we're looking actively, anybody has anybody that you know in District 3, and we'd like to talk to them. We love perspectives. Next meeting date is gonna be March 21St and we're gonna have our minutes, I mean, our rules and DLNR here and it may expand from there. BC: Is the meeting gonna be here? TL: Yes. BC: [Unclear— not speaking in mic] TL: OK. Hang on. We may be in the parking lot. Oh, Mark? You and Jonathan got your books? MB: Yes, sir, we did... TL: Excellent... MB: Thank you... TL: Um, it's fascinating reading, um, actually, ah, if you start getting into it and you can see, ah, there's a lot of stuff that's unsaid in our current rule 55 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes—February 22, 2016 structure and in it some of the things that maybe we can help move along. Good, OK, all right, so 21St we're gonna be here in the County Council room. All right, gentlemen, thank you, Bobby, thank you, ah, lady and gentlemen we're done, we're late... ?: Motion to adjourn... BK: Motion to adjourn... TL: All right, sorry, sorry, sorry. ?: Anybody ah... Ike: Move to adjourn... ?: Second... NP: Second, third... TL: All right, OK, moved and seconded. Vote? Aye? All in favor. [The ayes have it] TL: All right, aloha... VI. TESTIMONY: VII. DISCUSSION 56