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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-07-20 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawai’i Minutes Meeting Date: July 20, 2021 Place: Mayor’s Hilo Office 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:01pm. District 1 - Stanley Mendes, Present, in person District 2 - Kean Umeda, Present, in person District 3 – Rhon Leomana Turalde, Present via Zoom District 4 – Brian Ley – Present, in person District 5 - Abraham Antonio, Present, in person District 6 - Grayson Hashida – Present via Zoom District 7 - Vacant District 8 – Cortney Okumura – Present via Zoom District 9 - George Donev, Present via Zoom Quorum Established GUESTS: Kanalu Sproat, DOFAW Wildlife Biologist, Hawaii Island STAFF: Sinclair Salas-Ferguson, Attorney, Corp Counsel (Zoom – Kona Office) Pomai Bartolome, Executive Assistant to Mayor Roth Barett Otani, Executive Assistant to Mayor Roth Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist Mayor’s Kona Office 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Action: Cortney Okumura motioned to approve the May 18, 2021 minutes. Seconded by Stanley Mendes. Motion carried unanimously. Action: Brian Ley motioned to approve June 15, 2021 minutes. Seconded by Cortney Okumura. Motion carried unanimously. 3. FINANCIAL REPORT: Deferred. 1 4. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: Chair Abraham Antonio, welcomes anyone that may want to say something regarding an agenda item may do so anytime throughout the meeting. 5. PRESENTATION: a. West Hawai’i DOFAW Wildlife Biologist Kanalu Sprout will explain fire break expansion plans. Kanalu – I do not have too much of a presentation myself. I would just review really quick I’ve already presented this to you guys’ couple years ago. I actually did a site visit with Teresa (Nakama, former GMAC member) up into the area. I just do a quick review of what we are planning on doing as far as, road break, firebreak, and road expansion, in the Palila critical habitat area for fire protection. As a quick note: the fires they are fighting right now, started in PTA, moved up into the GMA, but the fire breaks we are maintaining in the firebreak 1 and especially firebreak 3 the one that kind of go around past that water unit, goes down to the other water unit at the bottom near the Daniel Inouye highway. That firebreak stopped the fire from going further up the mountain. That is one that we already maintain pretty well. Even though we plan to expand it with the rest of them. That mountain would be burning pretty hard if it wasn’t for those firebreak. We’re just planning on to expanding out about 10 meters from the existing road. Rosen firebreaks taking vegetation down. We’ve had comments from the Fish and Wildlife Service asking us not to cut like heritage trees, like older more matured Mamane, so I’m going to incorporate them into the proposal. But other than those larger mamane trees, we are going to take the vegetation down to nothing, very short. That’s all the way up to R-1 all the way to where it connects to the skyline, and all of the other R-13, R-14, and Firebreak 1 - Firebreak 3, so we’re just expanding cutting everything down, and widening to about 10 meters (30 ft.) So, I can take any questions. Abraham – Kanalu, you presented this in May 14, 2019. But the thing is now we have new members now from back then. Kanalu – When they sent you the letter, did they not give you a copy of the plan? Abraham – Yeah, we shared it at the last meeting to everybody. 2 Kanalu – So you guys, have any questions, like more details that you want from me, I can answer? Kean, District 2 – Kanalu, in your statement did you say you going to take down the grass to basically nothing? Or you just going to cut the grass. Kanalu – We are cutting the vegetation down. We are not going to make just dirt- but we are going to make it very short, we are going to use a brush hog, and mulch everything down to very short. Kean- How long will that take in your assessment including what you are using? Kanalu – We, honestly, I don’t know exactly how long that will take. We have a very small window that we can work with because of the different uses on the mountain. So really we looking at a month before the game bird season, where we are going to be available to do the work. It’s probably, it’s going to take a few years for us to get to the point where all of that roads are expanded the way we want it to, couple years. Kean – You answered my questions. Stanley – District 1. This is an ongoing thing, you guys going to maintain the Rosen firebreak all the time, or is this just one time? Kanalu – The biggest, what we claiming for the exemption, is to expand it. But once it is open up, then we will maintain. Yes. Stanley – thank you. Sinclair – I just want to ask - Somebody – I hear some background noise, if you are not speaking could you please mute your microphone? Brian – Kanalu, you guys have any plans on doing anything on the real thick dead vegetation up there? Kanalu – The thick Naio? Brian – Yes, I didn’t want to miss pronounce it. The dead Naio and thick grass. In certain areas it’s just a firebomb waiting to happen. I mean it jumps the highway that was a fire break, so it jumped from PTA into the game management, so you know we got lucky today, but it does not mean we will get lucky tomorrow. 3 Kanalu - Yeah nothing that I am aware of as far as active going in to try and reduce those field loads, right now we are just trying for now open up these field breaks to stop anything from spreading. But that is something we can discuss but it’s not something we haven’t discussed about it. Brian - No other discussion about opening and getting some sheep in there and to do a really good job on fire prevention, like we’ve heard before on that you know the fires will do a lot more damage than a sheep would ever do, and you know we have been over this a thousand times on the sheep has no barren on the Palila population or the Palila population will go up instead of going down in relationship to the sheep population on Mauna Kea. Kanalu - Until that court order is lifted our hands are kind of bound. So we have to get rid of the sheep. Brian - ok you guys have no idea of you guys actually filing suit and say look, we have scientific evidence this is detrimental to the Palila bird even if we don’t get a fire the smoke inhalation is going to cause irreparable to the bird’s lungs if it doesn’t kill them from smoke inhalation even the fire doesn’t get there. Kanalu - I am not aware of any plans for us, my agency or our lawyers to try and stop that or reverse that ruling or ask for them to say enough already. I am not aware of anything like that. Brian – Okay I appreciate that thank you sir Kanalu – Yeah, no problem Nani (Pogline) – I have a question from the public Abraham - Go ahead Nani Nani – Thank You, Nani here, so Kanalu the wide fire breaks mulching disturbing ground like that, does that derail at all or anyone about storm erosion opening up to for storm erosion? Kanalu – Yeah that’s why we are not planning on taking it down to bare minimal soil and just allow for you know shorter vegetation which maintain it short, so we did a trial run, maybe three years ago now, where we did take it down and then used herbicides to get rid of the vegetation completely and that was just on the 4 short section of the road. And we decided that we don’t think that was the best route to go. Nani – So you are not going to be using herbicides? Kanalu – No Nani – But maybe in Pu’uawa’awa’a, they do use herbicides on the fire breaks, don’t they? Kanalu – We do use herbicides in some areas, but we wouldn’t use it to the degree that it would get rid of all the vegetation so just to kind of knock some stuff down, make some of our maintenance a little bit easier but to do it in a level where we are getting rid of everything down to mineral soil is not the plan. Nani – Don’t you have to have some sort of take permit to cut through, you know you have certain amount of native vegetation, I’m sure you are having to destroy. Kanalu – So you need a take permit if you are going to be taking endangered species but with this plan because there is existing fire break on roads, we are trying to claim an exemption to the environmental compliance process. One of our exemption is specifically, we are allowed to do this type of work on existing roads and fire breaks, so… Nani – Yes, so that’s how you have an exemption? Got it, we have always wished the animals could have a take permit exemption also, but anyway that is just some other subject. Okay well thank you so much. Kanalu – Okay thanks Nani Jason – Can you guys hear me? Abraham – Yeah, just state your name Jason – Kanalu, Jason here, how’s it-Aloha. Kanalu – Hey Jason Jason – How’s it, Aloha, hey just a quick question, on what you just said earlier the maintenance you said possibly using mulching technique machinery possibility. I notice a few months ago some goats were used in Pu’uwa’awa’a like 5 a little test, test section that they did for heavily grazing I guess some few low cut grasses, would that approach be used also on Mauna Kea? Kanalu - That’s something that we are I mean that’s the reason why we did that on Pu’uwa’awa’a, to see if it would be effective, it was effective, but it did have a high cost, it was about a thousand dollars an acre. That’s kind of why it’s prohibitive. It’s something we will consider probably until we address that lawsuit that ruling, we probably wouldn’t use it. But that is why we did it at Pu’uwa’awa’a, to at least get some information on how viable it would be. It was effective but like I said it cost quite a bit of money. Jason – I see, okay… always good to use the cheapest resources the biggest bang for the buck, you know. Awesome, thank You. Abraham – Hey Kanalu, Abraham, district 5 - Kanalu – How’s it. Abraham - So you guys did a walk through survey couple times, are you going to be doing another walk through survey to make sure you guys no hit no endangered species plants, animals whatever you know. Right? Kanalu – So they did the walk through survey for plants already and then we would still be doing a similar survey especially surveying the trees for any bats or Palila while the machinery is there. So yes, we will be doing some more surveys as the project goes forward Abraham – Great- That one is in this letter I got from Dave Smith, he basically admitted that the fire fused is because of the removal of sheep and goats and also you know several years more of precipitation that’s pretty much why we get more fuel loads up there. Kanalu- Yea you hold the animals; the grass is going to grow. Abraham - So with you guys knowing that, don’t they think that you guys should go back and look and investigate more about reintroducing the sheep or even going back and looking into the lawsuit, like common sense kind. Kanalu: You would have to talk the lawyers, the administration that is a discussion, I have not been a part of. 6 Abraham - Right, so how willingly you think he would be to come down and talk story. Kanalu – Oh I don’t know, I cannot talk for… Abraham - Oh you know some of the other guys are not here anymore you know, we get new faces so maybe he will come down and talk story, via zoom or whatever. Kanalu – I don’t know about it, I cannot speak for him I’m sorry but you know it is common sense if you remove animals you increase of fuel load and so we are doing the best that we can legally and within kind of the parameters we are allowed to work with is to increase or to expand the firebreak from and keep it from spreading. Abraham - Or just reintroduce the sheep and goats again that would be the best. Kanalu – Legally, we are not allowed do that. Abraham - Any other questions for Kanalu from the public or any other commissioners? Okay Thanks Kanalu Kanalu – All right, Thank you guys Brian - All right. Thankyou sir, it’s always a pleasure. 6. OLD BUSINESS a. Discussion on fire break expansion. Abraham - At this point, Courtney did you have a chance to find that firebreak letter? Courtney – I did, sorry about that I just forwarded you, Sinclair and Barbara the corrected version. Abraham – Would you mind reading it to everyone and then we can just make a motion to approve it and have it sent? Courtney – Sure 7 Abraham - Is that alright Barbara? Courtney – Is that okay Barbara and Sinclair? Abraham – Yup Barbara says it good. Courtney – Okay, all right so the subject is the review of the Department of the Land and Natural Resources, Division of Natural Forestry Wildlife Proposed Actions, so the County of Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission has discussed your proposal requesting an exemption from environmental compliance to dispose of hazardous fuels and maintain firebreak roads within Palila bird’s critical habitat. The Commission here by submit its report if of the proposed action within Kaohe game management area and the Mauna Kea forest reserve. Abraham – Any comments on the letter? Sinclair can you did you take a real quick look at the letter? Did you have any comments? Sinclair – My internet email for whatever reason, is not working on my computer in Kona, I did review it, a while ago, but can you just state in laymen’s terms what the substance of the letter is? Courtney - just basically that we are supporting the proposed action as recommended in their letter that they sent. Sinclair – OK and that’s what I remember. So that sounds fine to me, I mean if approved that. Oh, I got a copy here from Barbara (reads letter to self) OK I mean that’s a good letter. I like it. Abraham – OK. Do any of the members want to make a motion to approve this letter? Action: Brian Ley, District 4 – made a motion that we accept the fire break letter and move forward with it. Seconded by Leomana Turalde, District 3. Motion carried with five ayes and two noes from S. Mendes and K. Umeda. Barbara – Chair Abraham, the letter will be mailed out on the County letterhead after it is reviewed and approved. 8 b. Discuss the Predator Trapping Program. Kanalu – What would you like me to talk about? Abraham- Our friend Richard Hoeflinger had some comments on it, and I know you guys had a meeting with him so would like to brush us up on that? While I look for his email. Kanalu - Sure we had a sit down with Dick he had express his concerns, about the trapping that if there was any level of incidental take of other, I guest, none target take of game birds rather than what our targets is of mongoose and cats. I presented our game bird survey that we did with the hunting public, assist us with their dogs the preliminary result of those the population of Erckels on the mountain was somewhere of 7,000 – 14,000. And so, I wasn’t stressing out too much eleven (11) Erckels in a year being taken by accident in the traps. In the end, I guess the end results of our meeting was would I committed to Dick that I would explore if there are other ways that we can trap to minimize that take of Erckels while still being effective taking of taking of 90 cats and 70 mongooses something like that with a total of 150 cats and mongoose together and 11 Ecrkels, so for me I mean, we don’t live in a perfect world, in a perfect world, we would kill no Erckels. But because we think we have 7,000 to 14,000 Erckles. Plus, we were hunting Erckles. Last year somewhere about 2,500 -3,000 Erckels were being harvested. Honestly, I wouldn’t be stressing out too much of the 11 Erckles being taken in our traps. But I did commit to explore option that we might have to minimize that number of Erckels being taken in traps. I talk to the coordinator for the Mauna Kea Forest restoration program his name is Kala AhSing, we were kicking around the idea of some of the traps moving them up into the trees, getting them off the ground, which would definitely, reduce our take of Erckels, but also reduce our take of cats. Cats are super wary, and I think this was done in the past. We’re thinking trying something like that, and just take a subset of our traps and see what effects of the take cats and take of Erckles. I had some conversation with some other biologist, about things that we can do but, we haven’t come up with any other solutions then that yet, but I am, we are working on it. Stanley – Kanalu, get all that PVC pipes up there…you guys not using that anymore? 9 Kanalu- So that PVC pipe was a project long before I was here, and they use the diphacinone bait, that was fish flavored or fish smelling to kill mongoose. I mean for trapping our main target is cats. We do get mongoose as well. But we feel cats are the biggest treat to game birds and the trapping is also for the Palila protection as for other native bird protection. Our main target are cats. Also, it’s good to get rid of mongoose as well. That diphacinone would not be something that would target cats at all. That was a project… And that bait doesn’t exist anymore. They don’t make that fish flavor, smelling scented diphacinone bait any more. It’s not really an option. Stanley – So what is attracting the game bird to the traps? Kanalu- We use a couple different type of baits. The main one that Maunakea Forestry Division uses is cat food mixed up with some type of oil or fish oil or something like that. Just dry cat food mixes up with that and we use also canned sardines. Stanley – You guys know what traps the Erckels go in? Kanalu – It’s pretty random and we have already 700 traps in the mountain now. The time I presented we had two months ago, with 600 traps. 600 traps in the mountain and 11 Erckles. It was pretty random where the Erckles were being trapped. Stanley – It isn’t one bait or another just the luck of the draw. Kanalu – 600 traps, 11 Erckles yeah, just luck of the draw like you said. Stanley – Thank you. Brian – Is there any special trapping season? I know you guys are supposed to dismantle the traps between September and bird season, but the rest of the season you guys run that? Kanalu – We pretty much start putting out the trap after the bird season in February. And we take them down pretty much in August. To get ready they run dogs. They do their run dog permit, pretty much from February to August. We do some live trapping and continue trapping inside the water units as we have time to check and close. And, mostly we close them between September through the end of January. 10 Brian – I was always kind of leery side of trapping in the watering area? That seems you drawing in the cats into feeding frenzy kind of thing, bringing the birds in, luring the cats in. You guys had any issues with tying to trap in the watering zones? Kanalu – We have much higher success rates of catching the cats near the water units. Probably more, something could look into more would be, how the water units affect the distribution of those predators. That’s where the birds are, that’s where the water is and the cats need water like everything else. It helps them spread throughout the area. That is something we haven’t looked at, but we could look at. Brain – Probably more the water is attracting the birds, then it is the cat bait traps attracting the cats. Thank you sir. Kanalu – No problem Abraham – Any other questions from the public or commissioners? Thanks again Kanalu. Kanalu – All right - Thank you, guys. Abraham – Okay announcements. New Business – I’m turning this over to Brian. He pretty much has taken the lead on this Pittman-Robertson thing. I’m turning over to Brian right now. 7. NEW BUSINESS a. Discuss a GMAC disclosure request of Pittman-Robertson spending in Hawai’i Island, based on the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Brian – I was talking with the representatives in Honolulu trying to find out how the 8.4 million dollars of the Pittman-Robertson fund were being spent. I couldn’t get a clear answer, I got, its’ too complicated for you. It’s difficult, yada, yada, yada. My only suggestion is that we file a Freedom of Information Act. (FOIA) to the State DLNR asking what they spent 8.4 million dollars on that is the taxed revenue by sportsman and that money is earmarked for conservation and it should not be used to eradicate sheep or anything else detrimental, that the Fish and Wildlife that we have in Hawaii. They had a 5-year plan that they were going 11 to build waters, food plots, I called them on it, and they took the site down. They said it was just an idea, and they had no plans on doing that. My opinion that it was smoke and mirror kind of thing that we were going to do all these wonderful things with the money, and nothing was done with it. I know that the majority of it is revenue to pay for our wonderful biologists like Kanalu’s pay and salaries, everything else like that. I just want to know, are they doing anything that’s helping the wildlife in Hawaii? And that is why I put forward the motion that we do a Freedom of Information Act on how they are spending the Pittman- Robertson Act in DNLR in Honolulu. That’s it for me. Abraham – So basically what are you asking? Brian – I am asking to put forth a motion that GMAC as a GMAC County thing file a Freedom of Information Act with the State Department of DNLR requesting what they spent the Pittman Robertson funds on. And they said it would take them about six months for them to do it if we filed a Freedom of Information Act. Abraham – Sinclair, how do we go about to make a motion to move forward with this or is this something we move forward with? ? – Somebody needs to second it. Kean – I second the motion Abraham – Nobody made a motion yet. Brian – I made the motion. Kean – I seconded it. Sinclair – So I think you should redo the motion and be a bit more specific with the year. So you wanting to know for what year are you asking that they provide information on what the money was spent. Brian – Well since 2020 was just relatively recent, I guess 2019, Freedom of Information Act on what they spent on the year 2019 of the Pittman Robertson Funds, where they were allocated. 12 Sinclair – My suggestion, make a motion, second it, discuss it. If the board decide to vote that, I can work with somebody to work on that and if there’s issues with it that we’re bring it back to the board. Action: Brian Ley, District 4 - I make a motion that we file a Freedom of Information Act(FOIA) for the year 2019, with the Department of DNLR in regards to how they spend the Pittman Robertson funds for the year 2019. And they said it would take them about six months for them to do it if we filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Seconded by: Kean Umeda, District 2 Motion carried unanimously. Abraham – Barbara - Brian made a motion, Kean seconded it. All in favor –Any discussion on that topic? Everyone Aye. Barbara all in favor Sinclair – One more thing on that, Brian we may have to work on this a little bit. Do you have my contact information? Brian – I can probably get from Barbara or Barbara can give you my contact information. Sinclair – Okay just email me and we can work on that. Brian – Okay, I appreciate that sir. Abraham – with that we will add Kean. So it’s going to be Kean and Brian working with Sinclair. I can share Sinclair contact information with you guys. Abraham – Jason Omick, do you have any comments? Jason Omick- Yeah actually, I was going to try stop you guys from before you are going through that. We don’t have any problem in sharing our expenditure information at all. It just that it hasn’t been clear what you guys actually want. The years or any of that stuff. We have reports, I build the budget every year we can see where all the money goes. It doesn’t go to eradicate animals or anything like that. It is based on the proposal submitted to Fish and Wildlife Service and that is double checked like, I don’t know, many, many times. I can work with you guys if 13 you like to view our proposals. Look at our financial and performance reports, and that shows what we do with those monies and where they go. Personnel it supports, the activities on the ground. The only part that takes a little bit of time, we all have P-cards. When you run a P-card through a transaction – it says First Hawaiian Bank, I can see what branch is spending that money, but I would have connected with each biologist to look at their P-card activity to see how those funds are spent. Of course you know, we have a general idea they are buying tires for their truck, or buying new sprayers, herbicides or whatever they are doing. That information is totally available. I talked to Brian awhile back and I couldn’t really get an idea of what he wanted. Does he want for Hawaii Island, all the islands? What activities, we have 38 different projects in our grant. All this stuff is public information. He did reach out to the U S Fish and Wildlife Services my counterpart there was wondering why I didn’t provide the information. It’s our right to do that or you guys can do a FOIA. That’s up to you guys. I was going to ask them, the Fish and Wildlife Service can we provide the actual financial report that we send to you guys? He said, yes. I relayed that information. We don’t have any problems providing you. You know, one we don’t get 8 million dollars, you can see what each State gets in the announcement from the Fish and Wildlife Service, sorry, it’s Department of Interior. You know, let’s say this coming Fiscal Year, generally Fiscal Year 2021 Hawaii was given 2.682 million, Hunter Ed was given 1.3 million. Out 2.682 million, half of that goes to non-game, half goes to game. So really the hunting program only actually really utilize about 2 million - 2.5 million out of the portion we receive. We have never seen 8 million dollars in 15 years I’ve worked here. This dollar amount does go up a little bit every year and sometime it fluctuates and goes down. What I was telling Brian previously we get 2.5 million bucks, a million goes for salaries, and the rest goes to operation and overhead. In my new budget FYI 2022, starting in September because we changed our grants to the Federal Fiscal year. The operation for the whole entire state is 650,000 for operation only. We can break that down into details on each of things are spent. How they are spent, why we decide, how we decide how we are going to spend the money on. But mainly it is for routine maintenance, we are doing fence checks, we are buying signs, fixing check stations, monitoring guzzlers, there’s a slew of different things. We’ve done a lot of research on the Island Maui, Oahu, we just finish ungulate distribution models on the island Kauai. This money goes into a lot of different pots for research and maintenance type of projects. You guys want to give me a list on what you guys want to see? I can give you the proposal and you can ask questions on that and I can provide financial information on that. You know 14 you can give me a list of items of what you’d like to see. I can just go down the list and try to address whatever I can. I mean, this process does take some time and after talking to my administrator the Fish and Wildlife service the people that manage these grants, it’s all open information and we have no problem in sharing. Abraham – Thanks Jason, I guest at this time, just work together with Brian, Kean and Sinclair. Then they can come back with a report at our next meeting or another meeting in the future. Jason – I think the starting point, is to just look at what we are proposing what we are going to do with the money and what is going to be implemented on the ground from there. Like I told Brian in the past, we may ask for 10 grand to do something, we don’t ever get to that project, because there’re lots of other things that is going on, so that money goes back into the pot. It goes back to the Feds; it really never comes to us in the beginning. None of this money actually comes to the department, we actually request it from the Feds as we spend it. It’s not like they ship over 4 million bucks; we just start spending it. We have to demonstrate 25% match on this, even though we are spending Federal money, we still have to, the State has to come up with about 7-8 hundred thousand dollars to even use that money. We have all that information, I think if we look at the proposal and we can kind of start from there. Abraham – Okay, sounds good. Jason since we have you on the phone, hold on Nani. We got another representative from Kona, Teresa Nakama, she put her application for State GMAC. Did you take a look at her application and do you know status of her application? Jason – Well, I don’t actually review the State GMAC commission member information that goes straight to the Governor and he makes his selection, I do get inquires, from folks if they can join the GMAC and I recommend they look at the Board and Commission website and submit their application. Abraham – You can do that on your guys own. Brian – We can discuss again. I don’t know… I just pulled up the Pittman Robinson thing. It says for Hawaii, the fishing received $3,697,000 and for the animals $3,678,000 for a grand total $7,376,044. 15 Jason – I guess if you are including aquatic resources which is not my program or division you would be correct on that. Brian – I’m just saying this is where I pull up the numbers. This is where I get the numbers is off the website. Jason – I don’t review another division budget from the Department of Interior. But you probably be right on that I would say they probably get a few million dollars so that make it around 7, 5 8… Brian – Okay we will table this one and we’ll see what we can discuss. Jason – Email me, and I will work with you. I have no problem with that. I think the last time we talked; I was transition into this position. Try get all the papers and documents from the past coordinator. I’m ready to work with you on that if you would like. Brian – Always willing to work. Jason – What other questions you have? Abraham – Nani (Pogline) Nani – Can I ask a questions? Abraham – Yes ma’am Nani – This is Nani from the public. Jason did you say a portion of the Pittman- Robertson fund is used for fencing? Jason – No, I did not say that. Nani – Fencing repair, it seems maintenance. Jason – Money for maintenance, yes, fencing that needs to maintain, could be maintain with this money yes. 16 Nani – Yeah so in a way that is sort of for eradication, just saying. Jason – No has nothing to do with eradication. Nani – Fence off certain areas, for eradication, just curious. Jason – That is not something that we do with these funds. We would have to report on that. I’ve never reported on that. Teresa – Abraham? Abraham – Yeah, Teresa go ahead Teresa – Can I get clarification from Jason as to who looks at the application for the State GMAC? We were informed Jason was the one that, go to guy for our application how about some clarification. Jason - Sure, Jason Omick DOFAW, No, I do not look at the application that is submitted to the Governor for his approval. An application that is submitted, you can walk through the process yourself. You are submitting the application to the Board and Commission office, what the Governor does with that is over my head. So they are reviewing the application and based on qualification of the member, once that is decided. I give the oath of office. All I do is manage the commission, and members, steward relationship with everyone and work together as a team. I help them with their minutes, help them draft plans, kind of bunch of things. I don’t review applications that are coming from the governor selecting a GMAC member. Teresa – Abraham Teresa, can we find out what the process is? Abraham – I guess you just have to call the mayor’s office, sorry, call the governor’s office. Jason – You can talk to the board and commission office. I think they may be a good step because that is where all the applications is submitted. As you recently saw, there was a bill HB663 trying to move that application process into the hands 17 of the legislature. That bill got veto, I think not too long ago. To me everything is going to the governor for his decision. Abraham -Did you get your question answered Teresa? Teresa- No, it still didn’t give us the process so, we just have to look into it. Abraham- Yea you just have to call the boards and commissions office and see what they say. Thanks Teresa. 8. ANNOUNCEMENTS: Abraham – ok Announcements, hey Kanalu, you still there? Kanalu- Yeah Abraham- sorry to bother you but give a brief announcement on the live goat salvage at Puuhonua o’ Honaunau? Kanalu- I guess, I can review really quick what’s happening over there. Abraham- Yeah, because we have a big audience tonight. Kanalu - The Park reached out to us to assist with removal of goats from the Puuhonua O’ Honaunau National Historic Park. I guess their rules don’t allow them to give animals away in a live capacity but we do have a memorandum of understanding between our two agencies that allows us to assist them with the management of the goats and big mammals, and because we can assist them they asked us to basically help them distribute goats that they are going to trap to the public. So, as a result of that we developed that we will just do a lottery. Last time I checked we had 25 applicants. So the park will be doing the trapping and were just handing the goats off to members of the public who come and meet the criteria that we set, which is trailer size and taking a certain number of goats, so the deadline for that application is tomorrow and then we are going to do that th draw next week Wednesday and then on August 11 we’re giving the goats away. They anticipate somewhere around 500-700 goats around there, maybe a little more than 700. Any questions or thoughts on that? Abraham: Does anyone have any questions or comments for Kanalu on it? 18 Leomana - Aloha, Leomana, District 3. Aloha, I just wanted to ask where I can find that application, I have a pretty big following on social media, so I can put things like this out, and this is the kind of stuff I like to help with. Kanalu- Ok, we have it on our website. If you go to, might be easier, let me go look for it. If you go to DOFAW, just google DOFAW and you go to the first link for the Division of Forestry and Wildlife. Leomana- They say, find it there or something? I can figure it out. Kanalu - Yeah you got to go Wildlife, I think you go to hunting, on the hunting tab, go down to special permits. Jason – I can help you Kanalu. Kanalu – Oh yeah, here you go, that’s the guy that put it on the internet. Jason – All hunting management, I post on the internet and I put it on mobile app, I share it through mail chimp to about 8,000 hunters. And usually this goes to couple different places and if you just google DOFAW, and get to our main site and click on recreation under the recreation tab, you’ll have hunting, once you get to the hunting page you can scroll down, and look at hunting information and there is a tab with a pheasant and just click announcement and you’ll see goat salvage under the June 20, 2021 announcement. In that announcement there is a link to the special permit there. Leomana – Okay right on. Mahalo. Abraham: Any more questions or comments for Kanalu? Just a reminder that when you guys speak you have to state your name for the recording because our secretary has to break it down and put it as our minutes so please state your name, thank you. Thanks Kanalu again and I think that’s the last time I going bother you unless you like chime in later on. Kanalu- k Shoots. Abraham- Jason, the other announcement I get you just touched on it and Barret can you punch up that picture that I asked you to do. Jason can you talk to us about the new app that was launched on July, 1st. Jason- Yeah sure, do you guys have questions on the top of your head or? 19 Abraham – I got some comments actually, after you do just a brief presentation about it. Jason- Ok, basically this app, I don’t know if you used it on your phone yet but. Abraham - Yeah I used it. Jason - We did a couple surveys back in 2017-2018. And we’ve been getting a lot of feedback from the public that they want electronic check-in and harvest reporting information and you know that regular way we collecting harvest, it has a little bias to it and some non-compliance so to be able to get a better set of data from harvest information and hunter trips verses success and whatnot. We’re going to try and utilizing the mobile app to capture this data. It’s a convenience to the hunter. You can check-in from your truck before you hike to your unit, and you don’t have to hike to go to the check station if you don’t need to. So just providing the little levels of convenience. As we were developing it, this app we unfolded that we could put all the trails system, all the wild life sanctuary’s, national reserves, forest reserves and everything. So, I basically spend a year cataloging all DLNR assets, land holdings and what they are, catalog them and put them into this app. So, in this app you can check into the unit. We do have hunting areas like Lanai or State Pu’uwa’awa’a where we have man check stations, where we, I’ll probably just continue to do that manually. I am working on Lanai to make them completely electronic, but there are some places that will still have a manual check-in. And people can still manually check-in, you know you don’t have to use the app. But with this app you’re able to check into places even if you’re offline. This app works offline, and you can see where you’re traveling in your hunting maps and recreational maps on this app, to a few feet, so you’ll know if you’re out of bounds. So yeah, it just gives people a sense of security just knowing where you’re at. And we can ask different questions, like when people are checking in, I can ask like are you hunting with dogs? Do you have an assistant with you? Just to get a little more data but the bottom line is we’re going to have information that is easier to analyze. And look at the trends of these check stations. So yeah, it has night mode, you can use it at night, you can use it offline, and DOFAW asks you for your check-in you can just show them your phone. Just kind of an ease of providing information. There’s information on trails, the topography the transitions, eventually, we will be collecting usage data like when trails are busy and when they aren’t. Hunters can log into their app and see 20 all their check-ins and everything they’ve harvest and where they going. They can see their successful areas. This is only for their eyes only, but the app is kind of social too. If I’m on Mauna Kea and your guys are hiking on Mauna Loa we could take pictures and share it. If you shoot a goat, you can take a picture and send it to me, stuff like that. Eventually we will have trail check-in and check-outs so in case people get lost whatever, we have a little safety measure to look back on and see if they checked out. So it’s kind of a social app, but more so it’s a way for us to collect hunter/harvest data. And there’s a whole - another layer of the whole trail system, basically, its Na Ala Hele in your pocket. All the trial systems there, you can click on each one and you can see where there is a giant gulley and you just want to stop there, you can kind of watch your app and know that the mountain cliff is right there, so don’t go down there. I don’t have a lot of Geo fencing and stuff like that, meaning if you’re approaching a giant cliff your phone will beep at you or say hey, something like telling you your about to fall off a cliff. But maybe one day we will be able to add some of those things in there. But eventually this app will, I’m trying to get state parks to join also, there information is in there too but their trails are not. And other divisions that we have to add their information in here too but right now it’s mainly molded for DOFAW and the department lands and having that way to check-in and check-out. I would just say, download the app and take a look and spin around. You have to register yourself in there to check-in, if you don’t check-out by a certain time in the evening, it will remind you to check out. So make sure you fulfill your duties of checking in and checking out. Right now I’m kind of just messing with how the hunter/ harvest data comes through. Everything is on Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) right now, so I’m writing a code to push that into Hawaii Time. And situate the information that we are getting so I can analyze it a little easier. But yeah it’s kind of just an outdoor recreational app. And the main thing I’m using it for is the hunter check-in and check-out information. Abraham - Thanks Jason. I used the app since it started, since I found out actually st July 1 and in the beginning like Jason said with the paper check in a lot of the hunters don’t want to check in cause then they going find out where you hunting and whatever, that’s the story. So, with this new app you can check-in right before you leave your house to guarantee you get check-in because some places, and Jason, I’ve been couple places already, that it works offline, but on the check- in part it doesn’t work offline. I got to find service and check-in again, and then 21 I’m good to go. But some places it doesn’t check-in offline, even though it is still active online. You can totally walk into the forest with no service and it will give you a pin point where you’re at. So, I support the app, this app is good. Jason –Awesome, this is Jason again DOFAW, I think -if the app is up and running and you go out of self-service, you should still be able to check-in. As you know with any new technology like this, we have to test it and you know we’ve been testing it since the beginning of July. I think about 3,000 people have downloaded this app already, which is a lot. We will start seeing some little things accrue that we will have to fix them. So, you know we’re working hard with the developers and making sure this is going to be exactly what we want. I would say in the next 6 months we will probably have everything kind of worked out the way we want it. I want to integrate tags and permits in here too. I’m working with a vendor right now to have, so we can have all of our tags and permits electronic. You can just go online and purchase your tags, you can print them off at home and attach it to your game animal with a plastic tags and a rubber band. Eventually maybe, we will mail tags to folks and stuff like that, but you pay on line. And so that service is almost ready. So there’s going to be a portal eventually on the Go Hunt website where you can go apply for your lottery, buy your tags, and buy your special permits that are on Kauai, Pu’uwa’awa’a or wherever and you’ll have your own profile so you can look at all your information, hunter education, your license, your tags, permits, all that good stuff. So, hopefully we can get that over to the app 2, right now, it is on the Hunt Go website, but we will have links on the app that you can go and view all the information too. What I’m trying to do is just get all of our permits, and any hunting need…I just want to make all of that electronic where people can view their information at a later time. Abraham – Right, like you said, the app already gives a lot of resources to, not only to hunters, but, if your hiker and it has a family oriented trails. It has fishing areas, if you ride dirt bike there are dirt bike areas. There is a whole bunch of things on this app. This app is pretty - very informative in just its infant stages. I can just imagine what’s going to happen in the next 6 months with this thing. Jason – Yeah, I’m excited kind to see where it’s going to go. I think a lot of other divisions will buy in on it. We can fill up a lot more information in there. We want to kind of make this DLNR official outdoor recreation app. I’m going to keep pushing that way. But like I said the first step was to get all the DOFAW stuff in 22 here, this is really built for hunters from the get go. You know the fact that we already had a trail website. I was able to utilize that information to put it in here. I would say once the Division of Aquatics jumps on, we can put their information in there. We will constantly build out on this thing. Abraham – Yeah, in the beginning when I first started with GMAC, this is kind of what I was pushing for, some kind of mapping kind thing. This pretty much suppressing it as of right now, and couple months ago or few meetings back. Brian was asking about mapping and introducing new hunters to areas, I feel this app is good enough for that. Go ahead Jason Jason – I was going to say, there are hunting maps embedded in here, and you have to look at them, they are going to be interactive here soon. They are not super interactive here now. Of course, the recreational maps that you see are all interactive and you can touch and everything. But if you go to the Kaohe game management area, and click on that area, if you scroll through the information area you are going to see map options, and the second map options is hunting maps, and if click on that it actually throws a dark line around the hunting unit. Eventually this map system will be interactive too where you can click around and see the names of all different hunting units. I’m still trying to roll that out at the moment. Right now you can see the safety areas, closed areas, you can see your hunting unit, you see boundary marker. But you can’t click on anything else on around the Island. Eventually that will be interactive probably in another month or two and you’ll have interactive recreational map and interactive hunting map. Abraham – Right on, thanks, anybody else any commissioners or public, have any questions or comments for Jason? – okay right on. Thanks Jason Leomana – District 3 Abraham – Go ahead Leomana - Aloha Jason, I just got two questions the first one. If this is I guest for the whole entire State, how can I get some of our kids involve with the media and art on the app? So I know you guys, might have some background media photo’s, whatever the background are, I just wanted to see if I can get some of the Big 23 Island kids involved with the Big Island maybe application or anything to do with our Island. The second is, sorry I forgot my second question, sorry, I was reading off my notes. Jason – It’s okay, Jason Omick DLNR DOFAW, I do have an outreach section here with our division that is assisting with a lot of media stuff that is going on here, we have events, we have experience in all these different things. You can actually hike trails; you can build trail experiences, where you hike from one trail to another, you can see, you can virtual hike the trail. You can work with me or with Josh Atwood, is the gentleman that runs our education and outreach section for DOFAW, work with you in getting information into the app for your Island. Leomana – Shoots, right on thank you. I just realize my first important question was. How does the GPS tracking, I know you said, it can tell you where you are in the hunting map? But what about the tracking, does it track me as I go hunting in my whole area or who has access to that information? Jason – Well, like any app that you download on your phone, that information has to go somewhere. The only information I’m gathering is when you check-in or check-out at a hunter check station. So, that Challenge, I can’t see where your phone is going. You know when you’re using the app, it’s only when you do a Challenge. So you check-in a hunter check station, I can actually see your coordinates, not me but the developers, they can see your coordinates. When I download the hunter check station information, I can see the coordinates and the time you checked in. Because if you tried to check-in, I heard this comment earlier, “I can check-in when I’m at home and I can check-out when I get back home.” That is not going to work. The app knows that you’re not close to Kaohe. If you are going hunting at Kaohe. It will know you are not there. Once you get pretty close to Kaohe, you can check. Of course we want to know how long you are in the field and your success. We don’t want you to check-in and sit there and talk for 2 hours then go hunting, because, we are losing that time it took you 4 hours to get that Francolin instead of 2 hours. Really you should be checking in when you are ready to go hunt and check-out when you’re done. The phone works just like any iPhone or android off of a satellite, you don’t need cell phone connectivity to be where you’re at. As long as there is a satellite floating up on top you’re going to see where you are at. 24 Leomana – Okay right on, Mahalo! Abraham – Leomana, as you go on the app, later on, get like one community page yeah Jason, where you can add photo’s on to the map area. I’ve already tried putting some out on that thing. Jason – Yeah you are talking social side of the app, yeah, you can take photos and upload them. I’m seeing a lot of people taking a bunch of different photos and up loading them to the app. I see one today with the fire in Pu’ukeke. Over there by PTA, so people can share information ask questions, and we will try to address them. I look at every day, here is a goat, Clayton Kubo on Kauai. Hunters can post information if they like. Try to be reasonable. There is a social aspect to this, you can share your outing with people. People will go, “oh wow, I didn’t know there was a trail there.” What this is going to do is spread people out. You know, people during COVID, we are trying to understand how many people are on trails. Where they’re going, you know how do we limit? We don’t want to close the trails. But we want people to space themselves and limit. This will capture some information, people will be checking in the trails, they will start seeing the analytics of that. On the other hand, it will spread people out. They will see trails they have not been there before, and they will go venture there, instead of the same trail. It kind of creates a safety measure for people to. Just like spreading people in the hunting area. Abraham – Thanks Jason. Any other comments or questions for Jason? Another announcement. Due to the recent fire up at Mauna Kea. Brian can you read the letter? Brian – Sure, Brian Ley District 4. Hawaii County Game Management Advisory Commission th July 20 2021. Hawaii County Mayor Mitch Roth 25 Aupuni Street, 25 Hilo HI 96720. Re: The Mauna Kea Wildfires, Dear Honorable Mayor Mitch Roth Hawaii County Game Management Advisory Commission would like to offer advice to the Mayor in response to the recent large and threatening wildfires on Mauna Kea, endangering Palila critical habitat, game management areas, the Hawaii county parks and surrounding communities. The State has long continued to eradicate game animals on Mauna Kea to fill in an obsolete federal mandate regardless of the resulting scientific data. The mandate was based on the assumption that wild sheep’s were the cause of the Palila population’s decline. Now we know that before sheep eradication the Palila camp was near seven thousand and long after sheep eradication the Palila population continues falling, falling to less than one thousand. Hawaii Wildlife Oncologist are acknowledging that the dangers of wildfires exceed any detrimental grazing mammal cause in native habitant, it is also well established fact that grazing sheep and goat effectively control the buildup of grass and weeds fire fuel as applied in California, such buildups on Mauna Kea are so tall and dense it is difficult to transverse recently these grass and weed fires fuels offered flame that nearly destroyed Palila critical habitat prime game management areas and threatened nearby County park lands and communities despite these mounting dangers, the DLNR continue to routinely eradicate the very few remaining fire preventing sheep population on Mauna Kea. Due to these recent developments, the Hawaii County Game Management Advisory Commission would like to advice the Mayor to file a lawsuit against the State of Hawaii for endangering Hawaii’s native species, game resources and the surrounding communities. Mahalo nui for your attention, Abraham Antonio GMAC Chair 26 Abraham- So basically we are asking the Mayor to file a lawsuit against the State in regards to, what this letter is about. Can I have a motion to move this letter forward? Sinclair – Chair, Sinclair. Abraham – Yeah, Sinclair. Sinclair – A few concerns, number one this wasn’t on the agenda, to be, who drafted this letter, is the question I have too, was that you Abraham? You got somebody else? Abraham – A member of the public. Brian – Well I, Brian Ley - District 4, I suggested it to somebody with the recent fire that almost took out the Palila habitant that since we have the meeting tonight, let see if we can get a letter, we talk to Mitch Roth when he was a candidate, about doing this and he said that it was a feasible idea, that the County has sued the State before in the past about Ariel eradications. And you know it’s something that was done before in the past like I said it has become a fire hazard, I have friends who live in the surrounding areas that are terrified of these fires. And like we said, you know, a good wind and we are seeing communities get wiped out. California is a classic example of what happens when uncontrolled fuel loads just left until somebody throws a match to it. Sinclair – The concern I have about this, is number one, it wasn’t posted on the agenda, the second concern I have just looking at this letter is asking us to sue the State, the context of the letter, it seem to me, to show that, the Feds are somehow involved in this, management of an endangered species, so I think before this, I think we need to put this on the agenda and even before that, I have to, I can work with someone to look into the background on this because I think there is more to it, more going on here, I’m not sure anyone, I don’t know what is going on with the Palila habitat, but that is why I’m saying it sounds like the Feds are involved and it sounds like from what I heard, the Feds are directing the State to do certain actions. Abraham – True, okay we are moving on to a… 27 Brian – Well, like they said the State file suit, they said they could but they are not. We are just trying to push the State into filing suit to the federal government it’s kind of a domino effect. The County sues the States, the State file suit against the Feds, saying that this is no longer an issue and it is detrimental the critical habitat area and to the community and the animals that they are supposed to be taking care of. Like we said if a fire goes out, ninety percent of the Palila population was direct line, if it jumped that fire line like Kanalu said then we would not be having this discussion the Pailia would be extinct. Sinclair – I appreciate that information, if Chair wants to put that on the next agenda, we can talk about it then. Abraham – Yeah, we will put it on our next agenda, we get a little bit more background on this and then we can move forward. Okay. Commission report by district. Is there any Commissioners with any report? 9. COMMISSIONERS REPORT BY DISTRICT: Abraham, District 5, I get one report. So, up in a couple of the hunting check-in station, one is up on Steinbeck, they just upgraded the check-in station box there which looks good, if you check-in, if you check-in manually, you get one double stack, so once you check-in, you can put your completed form down into the other one and nobody can have access to it and they pretty much did the same thing up in the check-in station at Volcano, so that’s good. Any other commissioners have anything to report? Leomana you have anything to report. Leomana - Aloha, I guess I really don’t understand what you want the report refers to? Abraham – Just pretty much, you can report on whatever is happening in your area, like I see in your social media Instagram that you guys did, who is that the 28 County or State did some cutting of the Ironwood trees or whatever. It’s whatever you feel. Leomana – I’ve got a lot to report. Abraham - Whatever is happening in your district you can make a report on, it doesn’t only have to do with hunting, remember now, we not only take care of hunters, we take care of hunters, fisherman gatherers, anybody who uses our Forrest and resources. That goes also for Courtney, George, Kean, Grayson, Brian, and Stanley, this comes under commissioner’s report. Leomana – All right, thank you for that. Getting to that Ironwood trees. We have our property down Onekahakaha Beach, which 3 acres is actually fishpond. I did my research over the past 3 years that is the only big pond of its size that is accessible to the ocean wildlife, in Keaukaha, every pond down there was either blocked off, or personally owned. One of the projects I’m in charge of is, I’m trying to get all of the invasive killing all the Ironwood trees, and taking them down in the area. Because their rooting system somehow disrupt our water system, and start to promote this limu growth which chokes up all the food for the native fish. So that is a project for me and two of my friends, in trying to I guest to regenerate the natural wildlife. We have so much Micronesian coming into our property and just fishing all the fish and the turtle out of our ponds. This is one of the things we are trying to combat and bring the wildlife back. Another one is this past two week, I’ve been going down Waiuli Beach Park every chance I get, trying to get the tourist and or new community people who live in the community come down and disrupt the turtles, all the wildlife that comes up the beach over there. So I’ve been counting an average of about 5 turtles, right in front of Waiuli pond. Every day I see about, every time I past I count about 20 people over there, kind of, not disrupting the animals, but just going into the area where they come to sleep on top of the rocks and I’ve being paying attention to that and taking notes. Just today by Waiuli Beach for some reason the water is all green down the coast to Leleiwi. I’ve been trying to look at that as well. Anyway, that is what I have to report so far. Mahalo Abraham – Right on, Thanks Leomana. Courtney you got any district report. 29 Courtney – I was just curious, if anyone else has heard. I saw, I was trying to find the news article and I can’t find it any longer. But one of the first meeting I attended we were discussing the death that happed at Kailua Pier. When we were having discussion about the closure. I guess the coroner had ruled that the death of the man who passed away there was accidental, sorry, caused by medical reasons, was not due to a murder, as was reported through media outlet. So he did in fact pass away due to medical condition, according to the coroner. Abraham – Did you speak with Jerome (Nickerson, DLNR, Boating and Ocean Division) lately, to see what is the status on the closure (Kailua pier) Courtney – I haven’t followed up with Jerome, but I will go ahead and do that and be able to report back to you folks at our next meeting. Abraham – Right on thanks Courtney. George you got any reports for your district? Grayson you have any report for your district? Grayson – No, negative. 10.COMMITTEE REPORTS: None. Abraham – One last announcement. He already spoke earlier tonight and he is our State GMAC. Jason Sanborn, do you want to introduce yourself? You’re muted, you have to unmute yourself. Jason – Aloha, Jason Sanborn here Abraham – How’s it, Jason. Jason Sanborn- You guys can hear me? Abraham - Yeah, perfectly fine. Jason Sanborn –Okay sorry, this is like my first zoom meeting, I wanna just listen in tonight, just trying to familiarize myself and I look to just to helping the community and helping our current I guess, issues that we are facing. Aloha in welcoming me and look forward to work with everybody. 30 Abraham – Right on Jason. Is there a way we can get your contact information, maybe you can email it to Barbara and Barbara can pass it along and then we can have better communication? Jason Sanborn – Absolutely, no problem, I can email Barbara Abraham – Right on Thanks. In the future you can give us updates in your guys’ State meeting. Jason Omick, isn’t there a meeting coming up you would like us know about? Jason Omick – Hi this Jason DLNR DOFAW- On July 22, 2021, from 5 to 7 in the evening, so on Thursday, our next meeting will be held. Abraham – Is there some way we can get on an email list or something, how can we get notification of that the State GMAC meeting for the public? Is it public oriented? Can the public be there? Jason Omick– Yeah, if you every go to the Hawaii State Calendar and just type in Game Management Commission. Information on every meeting will show up, I do, we do post these announcements in different places, because of Covid there are some things we can’t really do because of the Sunshine Act. But we do post this information on the State calendar because that is definitely necessary and part of the Sunshine Law, so you can go there, but I can get your information and every time we have a meeting, I can send you guys an email on that. We usually have about 4 or 5 a year. It’s not on a regular quarterly bases, more of a need and availability of everyone, so our next meeting will be July 22 from 5 to 7 and it will be on Zoom and if you go to the State calendar, the agenda is there with the link to the Zoom meeting. Abraham – Okay, State GMAC meetings Jason Omick– Yes sir Abraham – Okay right on, Thanks. Last and final thing for me tonight is I like to apologize for last month’s meeting. I was kind of pushing it, rushing it, because I 31 thought the meeting was supposed to be done by 7:30. I was corrected and meetings are actually done at 8 o’clock. From 6 to 8, so but tonight we were moving a little through everything and guess what could we make a motion to adjourn at 7:30? Dexter Egdamin- Abraham? Excuse me Abraham – oh, one more, Yes Dexter Dexter – How’s it going? This is Dexter, Abraham, last meeting I asked about the hunting list. And why we were asked about the GE (General Excise) then and someone said they were going to find out about that list. Has anything, have anyone found out any about that list? Abraham – Oh well we never found out anything about that list but Teresa Nakama is in the audience and I don’t think we can talk about it, because bumby I get scolding, because it’s not on the agenda, but you know what Dexter, I will get back to you by next meeting. I’ve got to ask Sinclair something, before I bring Teresa involved in this, that’s way. Dexter, I’ll get back to you. Dexter – Okay, Yeah no problem, thank you. Abraham – Sorry about that, Is there a motion to adjourn the meeting? 11. Adjournment: (7:31pm) Action: Stanley Mendes moved to adjourn. Seconded by Brian Ley. Motion passed unanimously. Next Meeting: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary 32