HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-02-23 Game Management Advisory Commission MinutesGame Management Advisory Commission
County of Hawai'i
Minutes
Meeting Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2021
Time: 6:30pm
Place: Hawaii County Building, and West Hawaii Civic Center,
Mayor's Conference Rooms - Via WebEx
1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:30pm
Stanley Mendes, District 1— present
Kean Umeda, District 2 — present
Vacant - District 3
Brian Ley, District 4 — present
Abraham Antonio, District 5 - present
Grayson Hashida, District 6 — present
Vacant - District 7
Vacant - District 8
George Donev, District 9 — present
Quorum Established
GUESTS: Maurice Messina, COH Director of Parks & Rec
Richard Hoeflinger, "On Target" Gun Club
Ian Cole, East Hawaii DOFAW Wildlife Biologist
Darren Ogura, DLNR Hunter Education Program
Mike Donnelly, Pohakuloa Training Area Public Affairs Officer
Todd Yukutake, Hawaii Firearms coalition
STAFF: John Mukai, Corporation Counsel
Pomai Bartolome, Executive Assistant to Mayor
Barett Otani, Executive Assistant to Mayor Roth
Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist Mayor's Kona Office
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2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Action: A motion was made by S. Mendes to accept
the January 19, 2021 minutes. Seconded by K. Umeda. Motion, carried
unanimously.
3. FINANCIAL REPORT: Action: A motion was made by B. Ley to accept the
Financial Report. Seconded by K. Umeda. Motion carried unanimously.
4. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC: None
5. PRESENTATION:
a. Maurice Messina, Director of Parks and recreation will provide an update
on COVID procedures at the Trap Range.
b. Richard Hoeflinger of the "On Target" gun club will speak on related
topics.
RH: Well, before I begin this (power -point) presentation I need to say
something. I made this presentation several years ago before this group
and since then I've heard of various and sundry people talking about gun
range here and a gun range there and we're gonna do this and we're gonna
do that and what I have come to conclude is everybody has a definition of
what a gun range is, OK, so I don't know what you think and I want to make
sure you understand. And our objective, as I go through this presentation —
remember what our original objective was — and I'll read it: pursuant to
recognized design standards — develop a safely operated, publically
accessible, multi -venue target shooting facility to meet the express
shooting needs of Hawaii Island residents. And that's what this is about. So
there's all kinds of other people had different ideas in mind like what a
range is — that's ours. So I'm gonna go through this quickly cause I think
you've seen a lot of this stuff before. This presentation was originally given
in 2015 —there has not been much of significance in any regard since then.
Over % million registered firearms in Hawaii county. 1.3 guns per resident.
I'm sure that's substantially higher now with all more recent sales in
firearms. Again, this is — these are all old numbers, you know, five years ago
or so. There's the number of firearms in Hawaii. This is a fact — target
shooting is the fastest growing US participating sport — more people shoot
targets than play soccer, basketball, or [unclear]. We looked at who are the
PA
out shooters? At least here and what we did was take a look at the
demographics of the shooting classes that we put on here on the Island.
OK, so the issue is 90% of Hawaii Island's % million guns are rifles or pistols
and there is no legal, publically accessible rifle and pistol shooting facility on
the Island. That's a fact. So how do we go about this? Well, we spent 12
years — going back to 2015 — research, planning, testing have been
completed and here's some of the highlights. The shooting range was
established in the land management plan for Puuwaawaa and that was the
first time I have seen anything on paper.
There's a lot of talk before then, but that was the first [unclear]. I served on
the council and we made sure that among the things that we were gonna
do at Puuwaawaa it included a shooting facility. In 2004 we started how we
were gonna get about that so we formed a shooting range working group
and that group — there's a list of the participants — I can't image how you
can get any more people in there — we talked to a lot of folks — had a lot of
meetings — and tried to put together a direction in which we wanted to go.
And in 2005 we set out and drew up — put all these requirements on to
paper and came up with this concept of a shooting facility that with the
County and everybody's desires and needs — it turned out that it occupied
about one square mile. So in 2005 we looked at potential range locations —
and in 2005 we selected the Puuanahulu Range [unclear] for a number of
reasons and in that same year we conducted the initial sound test. The
[unclear] design [unclear] there were some of the things that we looked at
— were concerned about — biological and cultural use restrictions are very,
very significant on this island — don't overlook 'em. We looked at things like
how do you get in there — how do you get out — proximity to habitation —
easy way to get a range closed up is to be anywhere near where there's
people and one of the issues there — compatible climatic conditions — very
important if you're going to construct a facility that you're going to try to
attract people's use particularly for competitive shooting — those plans
have to be made months and years in advance — so you don't want it to be
rain or snowing or something else when the day finally comes. And here are
some the shooting range site evaluations that we looked at — and we
settled on Puuanahulu and in 2007 we got the Land Board to approve a
square mile of the GMA for use as a public shooting facility. That's where it
is map wise — next door to the Puuanahulu Landfill. There's some of the
criteria — open landfill has very, very little vegetation — no significant fire
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hazards — we did sight surveys and could find no biological or cultural
concerns — there were a few old trails and we had to address some of our
layouts to make sure we didn't get in 'em. We had an existing access road —
we would be able to control the site access —very important nearby utility
sources form the landfill and the nearest habitation was almost 2 miles
distance and the weather is clear and predictable.
In 2005 we conducted the first sound test — it was done by our shooting
range working group. We got DOFAW involved and we got an individual
from the Department of Health who was familiar with sound measurement
— he brought all the instrumentations. Large caliber rifles —the ones that
make a lot of sound — generated gunfire in two sites — no sound mitigation
— we made no prior announcements of tests — we recorded data at six
sampling locations and two of those were within the resort complex across
the roadway and the gun fire was unmeasurable at the remote locations.
In 2006 we negotiated a use agreement with the landfill through the county
— we could use their entrance to the dump and then we planned to t -off of
that and drive to our facility.
In 2007 as I already mentioned, we received DLNR land use approval — we
looked at some capital improvement funding.
In 2010 the working group was incorporated as a 501.6 non-profit. In 2011
we generated a facilities design requirements manual that put all the
requirements that we had on paper so it was a working blueprint. In 2012
the facility national plan environmental assessment — the contract was
awarded to PBR Hawaii. PBR Hawaii is a large Oahu organization —they do a
lot of big time parks and recreation areas that sort of thing. We held two
informational shooting ranges meetings. And so in 2012 we developed a
[unclear] leadership agreement with DLNR that outlined who was
responsible for everything and we were responsible — when I say we I mean
On -Target was responsible basically for providing all the design criteria and
we would have a major responsibility in the operations of the facility once
we started. 2012 we conducted another sound test that was done by PBR
Hawaii and their sound consultant — we provided assistance again —
[unclear] caliber rifle shotguns — gun fire — three range sites — no sound
mitigation — we invited the resort representatives who witnessed the
testing — data were recorded at six sound sampling locations — four of
which were in the resort complex — once again — gun fire unmeasurable —
we couldn't tell any difference from the background noise. 2014 we formed
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a sound assessment working group — there's all the people that were in
there — notice that the resort facilities played a major part as did Waikoloa
Land which is developing the resort area. People were still unhappy so we
conducted the 311 gunfire sound test —this one was a little bit different in
that it was mostly analytical — it's the same philosophy that was used to do
sound measurements for a proposed raceway over in West Hawaii where
you have a sound and you propagate it over the landscape with all kinds of
different climatic conditions etc. etc. And that sound test was conducted by
PBR Hawaii and a different consultant — large caliber rifle shotgun — gunfire
generated a single range site — we just needed to get the level of gunfire
into the program establishment at level was — we did build a sound
mitigation device to show that we could reduce the sound we generated in
some of our proposed facilities — the gunfire was recorded at the range site
— and then background was later recorded at the facility — they took about
a week going around to different locations in the facility to make the
background noise and all those data were massaged into the data
computer program and the result was — well there are some more of the
criteria — rifle fire projection was within resort background sound — the
resort directed shotgun fire such as the sporting place course where you go
around and fire in different directions when you pointed the shotgun
directly in a westerly — in the direction of the site — the sound exceeded the
lowest background level that was measured at the resort by a small
amount. This was within a courtyard of one of the condos. That's where the
guys looked for the lowest, quietest place in the resort and were slightly
exceeded the background noise — we went back and re -oriented some of
the shotgun facilities so no gunfire was directed at the resort and we
believe that would resolve that problem. This is kind of a busy picture of — I
have copies of this presentation by the way — and if anybody wants one I
can email it to you —just let me know — but this one shows where the three
sound tests — where the sound was generated — where it was measured
basically within the landscape of the area.
OK. What is the complex? It's a world class facility built to existing safety
standards using noise mitigation technology — venues for all shooting
activities — firearm safety and education center — satisfied local needs — it
could be a tourism magnet and generate lots of bucks except the Hawaii
Tourism Authority doesn't want to talk about anything but sandy beaches,
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swaying palm trees and hula girls. That's the Hawaiian brand and shooting
is not the Hawaiian brand.
There's the menus, OK, that's a bunch of stuff — so we accommodated
everyone that we could think of and all those that came to the planning
meetings and provided just about everything anybody needed including a
1,000 yard high power rifle range. And that's what it looks like when we laid
it out — there's a little spur down on the left hand side there and it says
that's a roadway to go into any law enforcement activity. We talked to the
police department over several years through two police chiefs and got
different response from both of them as far as participating in this and in
the end we decided we'll provide you a place and you can go do whatever
you want to do. I was a policeman for six years, I know how cops want to
shoot but that's not how civilians want to do it, OK? Another picture of the
shooting facility range — safety issues — satisfies local recreation day and
provides an economic benefit. It's a good place to provide instruction on
gun safety — we do that at the Hilo all skeet and trap range now — but we're
limited to shot guns. It would be a good place for hunter education field
training — I taught hunter education about three centuries ago - and when
we taught hunter safety education we had field days where we would have
kids climb over fences and all that good stuff — trails all out in the open — I
don't think they do that anymore but anyway it would be a good place to
do it. Structured recreational shooting activities — so we would finally get
some rifle competition — some pistol competition — both static and action
and law enforcement training — as I say there is a place to do that. The
world designed effectively operating shooting facility located in a vacation
rich environment within an amenable year-round climate will attract
competitive shooters from all over the world. I tried to preach that and I
think it just falls on deaf ears. But here's some of the examples — the
benefit of hunting and target shooting is over 110 billion dollars annually.
Look at Camp Perry — Camp Perry — the National Guard training facility
every year provides $20 million dollar benefits to the local Ohio community
— that's where Camp Perry is. And there's another one there —158,000
individuals spent 6 million days target shooting providing 124 million dollars
of revenue to the State of Nebraska. And just here — 75 % of the
participants at the Pacific International Trap Shooting Assn and that's at
Hilo — the 4 -day competition — 75% are island visitors. Visitors spend
money. Some more stuff — Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation — look at
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the numbers — total economic input — 2012 4 million — 2013 5 million — 20
or whatever it is — total of ten days - anyway, you can read it. Those were
some of the sources that we get for to operate — if you're gonna build a
shooting facility you gotta start thinking about how you're gonna operate it.
But there's money available — you got to go after it. There is where we were
and this is again 2015 and it's where we still are today — we supplied some
petitions in the form of local people signing up — we're at a standstill — it's
now more than 12 years. What we need in order to move forward a
commitment for development — strong effective leadership — a long term
funding plan — and ongoing community support. And On -Target, Inc. of
which I no longer am a part — I was the founder and made the place but I've
retired but On -Target will provide expert technical assistance — maintain...
Well, you can read it all... There's what we like to see... Just says On -Target
is the blah, blah, blah, non-profit — there's some of the people in our
organization — a lot of certifications — NRA certification — 2 former police
officers — professional gunsmith — blah, blah, blah — so that's On -Target and
I think the last line is just Board of Directors which is now [unclear]. So
there we are, we're done... Any questions?
AA: Thanks, Richard. Anybody from the public or any commissioners have any
questions for Richard?
TN: This is Teresa from the public. Could I ask a question? Hi... Thank you for all
your folk's efforts — I know you folks all worked hard on On -Target and I
know some of the people there. My question is — when you get the sound
studies — will the facility be a 24/7 facility — open 24 hours?
RH: I don't think so. Maybe some of the venues — I can imagine one or two
venues possibly — but again, there's a number of shooting venues in there -
put up the list — it's not an all contiguous shooting facility. You travel from
one venue to another. If you want to go trap shooting you go here — skeet
shooting you go there — sporting plays here — high power rifles here.
TN: My question was will the facility be open 24 hours?
RH: I would doubt it.
TN: When you did the sound testing — did you do the sound testing from 6 in
the evening to 6 in the morning or any time between that?
RH: All the sound tests were conducted during daytime — when a shooting
facility would be operational.
TN: I guess that's why I'm asking — if the facility is gonna be 24/7 because in the
evening, you know, I could be not too accurate but I believe the wind
direction goes from mountain to ocean from 7 in the morning to 7 at night.
So if the facility was open 24/7 and there was any nighttime shooting — did
you folks do any sound testing at night?
RH: I cannot envision — other than law enforcement — I cannot envision any
nighttime shooting.
AA: So Richard, besides, well, if you know and maybe I should wait until actually
— I actually will wait till after Ian's on - so if nobody else has any questions
or comments for Richard we can move on to Ian Cole...
TY: Sorry — if I could speak — Todd Yukutake — I'm with the Hawaii Firearms
Coalition and I'm also the NRA state training counselor for Hawaii so I
represent all of the instructors for the NRA in Hawaii and, yeah, there's no
good facility for training people how to shoot handguns, which is required
to purchase a hand gun. And some people use private ranges here and
there but we really need a facility on the Big Island to teach handgun use.
I'm assuming a lot of people take the Hunter's Education Class to be able to
buy a handgun, but, you know, that class doesn't teach how to shoot a
handgun and that could be a safety issue so that's why we really need a
range like this. Thank you.
RH: You, I assume, Todd, you're Oahu...
TY: Yeah...
RH: You have a facility. I'm an NRA Range Technical Team Advisor in addition to
a bunch of other things — and I've made a couple trips to Coco Head on
behalf of some problems they had over there with projectiles leaving the
property. But you have a fairly decent facility where you can shoot rifle and
pistol — you have to imagine what it's like for people here who have
absolutely no place — no legal place to do that and frankly don't see — I
gave a 20 year...
TY: I was referring to the Big Island when I was speaking about the range — not
Oahu, yeah? Big Island really needs a pistol range for training...
RH: Todd, I got a question — at Coco Head can you have your instructors that
teach rifle or pistol or shotgun — can they charge a fee on a public range for
the students?
TY: There's a permitting process, you know, just like golf courses, I guess you
have to get a — at county golf courses you have to get a permit to instruct
students there — it's supposed to be the same thing at Koko Head — it's just
no one really does that.
?: Yeah, because I believe you cannot charge a fee on a public range it has to
be basically on a private range like X -Ring I know they give private lessons
there and some of the other indoor ranges but I know the ranges that I
shoot at on Oahu they have no way of charging people for instructions
there to be certified
TY: Like I said, it would be like golf courses — there's a — well don't know if it's a
county law — maybe Honolulu might be — actually I think that's a county law
here where in parks instructors can charge students you know reasonable
fees. You're supposed to have a permit for it and as long as it's related to
the park use —for like golf instructors in Oahu can teach gold students and
charge them a fee at the county golf courses. Would be the same with the
range here — but Hawaii county might be different — I'm not sure about
your laws there...
RH: Maybe I can help. We have — I'm a certified instructor in all shooting
disciplines — as are a number of other folks here — and we've conducted
most of our shooting classes through the Parks and Rec Department. And
we use the shotgun range primarily. But we've also put on the rifle training
classes using areas up in the forest reserves with the approval of the
Division of Forestry and Wildlife, as an example, so if you have a place that
A
will — you can safely do that — that's a way to use that facility to put on a
certification class and we've done that numerous times.
?: And there's a fee exchanging hands?
RH: There was no fee — we've never charged a fee — there's no fees involved in
any instruction we've done. Now other people I can't — they may do that —
On -Target never charged.
?: Correct. Yeah, thank you for that Richard.
AA: Thanks, Richard. George, you had a question?
GD: Yeah, in your presentation you mentioned that there was an amount —
federal commitment, I guess, that was reserved for this and that the state
needed to match the amount. I was wondering what those figures were...
RH: OK. I'm not sure I can answer your question specifically but I can tell you
that there's a million dollars sunk into Puuanahulu and it consists of those
contract fees such as the one that was let to PBR Hawaii and the equivalent
of volunteer service. I went through the numbers and I came up with — at
the time — roughly a million dollars had been sunk in there and it's still
sitting there in the same condition it was in 2015. The monies — I'm not sure
how much — some of it came through state funding — at the time we had a
one representative here that supported our activities - Cindy Evans — when
she was in office — and she was effective in getting some of the money
allocated and then we got finally — dragged hunter education who's
responsible for acquiring Pittman -Robertson (PR) funding. We got some
funding through PR. That redirection that I mentioned in there was when all
of the funding got tied up — or kind of a loss of interest and the PR money
that was originally allocated for the Puuanahulu facility was spent — some
of it — at the Hilo Skeet -Trap Range.
GD: Do you have any financial estimates for how much it might take to
complete the project in totality — to get it operational?
RH: No, I don't and that was where we stalled was we completed an
Environmental Assessment and some people wanted to push on from there
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but my experience having lived through the Super Ferry fiasco told me we
would be best to go to a full EIS and get all the stuff on the table —commit
everybody — there were a lot of misapprehension about this range —
ascertain person in the resort community who had a leadership role there
completely twisted facts — went to the newspapers — claimed the
employees were going to die from raining bullets on the facility with all of
our shooting was to the south and the resorts was to the west — but let me
tell you — today facts don't matter, OK. It's sad.
GD: OK, you don't have a dollar figure...
RH: No.
GD: OK. Thank you.
KM: Aloha, I have a question. My name is Kalana Moore, I don't know anything
about shooting ranges — I think this is a good idea that we do need to have
people proficient in knowing how to shoot, though, I don't have any
problem with that but I was just curious about — the subject of this but not
— toxic waste from the bullets — apparently your presentation showed that
there's a of [unclear] popular activity so I was just wondering how do you
clean up after your industry?
RH: Are you talking about primarily lead recovery?
KM: Yes, and plastics.
RH: OK. Let me give you an answer or I hope I can give you an answer. At the
time we finished designing this facility and started thinking in terms of cost
— I was convinced that one of the major costs were gonna be buying
machine for the skeet and trap range. They're expensive and we needed a
lot of them. But when we got into the design it turned out that the
contracts that we had — the people who were experts recommended that
we bring in film material — a PH neutral film material to lay down for all the
shot gun facilities so that the lead could be recovered. And that's exactly
what they do on the mainland for all there shotgun — or all the new shotgun
facilities —just put in a sandy substrate and they have machines that dig
dredges in that come in and suck all the material off — lead being the
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heaviest it settles out and then they recycle the lead and the price of lead
on the market is somewhere between — the last time I looked — between
50cents — a dollar a pound — I travelled in the course of my NRA training — I
travelled to San Diego, they had 2 trap ranges and they had just done a
cleanup and they mined $60,000 worth of lead from that facility. So that's
money in the ground — now, if you take a facility that exists such as our Hilo
Skeet and Trap Range — I did an estimate and came up with about 120 tons
of lead laying out there over the 40 years it's been in operation and we sat
down with the county and suggested to the county that you might want to
start thinking about that because you're responsible for it and lead laying
around is a classified by the EPA as toxic material. So someday the county is
gonna clean that place up — and it's either gonna be on their initiative or
they're gonna have EPA come in and tell them exactly what to do. When we
discussed this with the county it was just — I think — ah, two more years and
I retire — it kicked the can down the road. So nothing has been done — and
it's gonna be very expensive to clean up there because that's all rock and
there's a lot of cracks — but I can guarantee you — someday somebody is
gonna find a dead fish in Hilo Bay and they're gonna remember somebody
told them there's a shooting range over in Hilo and it got lead — used lead
and that's gonna be the end of that range —the gate will be locked forever
more. So the answer to your question is — you prepare for that and you
make sure that you have remediation plans.
KM: OK. That's what I was hoping to hear in this plan. Thank you.
RH: Yeah, the rifle and pistol ranges are much simpler since the gunfire is
directed more at a centralized location. You go way in and dig in the
backstop and pull all that stuff out and again you recycle it. So that's the
way it's handled.
KM: Thank you.
c. Ian Cole. East Hawai'i DOFAW Wildlife Biologist will discuss State
Shooting Range development issues.
IC: Sorry, I don't have a presentation I thought I learned more listening to Dick
— I don't have much more. I could offer comments but obviously I haven't
been involved in the process of this shooting range historically — sorry
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Abraham — I don't have much to add — basically Dick informed me on a lot
of things...
AA: OK. So basically, my questions would be — where can we go forward with
this on the Forestry side because two years ago- like I told you before — I
was in a meeting with Tom Lodge and Bob Masuda and you know some of
the other guys and everything was a yes — now everything is at a standstill,
but at this point — everything was yes before COVID so can't really blame
COVID so what would be the state's stance on it right now, I mean, maybe
you guys can use COVID as lack of funding — but, what would be the state's
point on this?
IC: Yeah, I think my experience — the only reason the state was involved is
cause they were carving the shooting range of the Puuanahulu GMA,
besides the funding that wasn't coming directly through DOFAW or DLNR —
the historical — when DOFAW per se got involved but the monies was from
Pittman -Robertson — I did ask the PR Hunter Ed folks what had happened in
— to the best of my answer was that the match that had existed prior to
match — what I think was mostly PR money — correct me if I'm wrong —
Pittman -Robertson money — I'd be redirected to Kauai which was more
ready to go [unclear].
AA: OK.
?: [not speaking in mic]
IC: The match...
RH: No, I don't — I remember the year — Cindy Evans asked for an allocation of,
as I remember, was $800,000 dollars to do the two things that I mentioned
before — complete and EIS and to do a time phased real — a cost estimate —
nobody, by the way, expected that this thing was all gonna be — that the
thing I was talking about was gonna get built in one full swoop — but we had
a design that would accommodate all these facilities and the would be — it
was OK [unclear] at least and then it would be built out as funding could
become available. Cindy put that bill in and we — it didn't pass and that was
the year they allocated 1.6 billion dollars to Kauai to build a range — that
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there was no prior work on — which I never could figure out but that's
politics.
AA: Thanks Ian —just hang around in case anybody else got any more questions
on the issue. Hey, George, funding what you guys find out?
GD: I wasn't able to find anything that we don't already know.
AA: OK. Thanks, guys. I guess next we going move on to Maurice Messina is the
Director of Parks & Recreation — he'll give us an update on the trap range...
BK: Excuse me Chair —this is Barbara... I've been texting Maurice, he's on the
Saddle Road right now so he might be out of range — he was gonna pull off
the highway and talk to our group. I don't think now is a good time. Just
hold off till probably the end — he can probably be the last speaker.
d. Darren Ogura of the DLNR Hunter Education program will speak on Phase
2 of the Mile Maker 16 range development, and the acquisition of
funding.
AA: OK. Sounds good. Is Darren Ogura here? OK. Moving down to Mike
Donnelly, Pohakuloa Training Area Public Affairs Officer...
e. Mike Donnelly, Pohakuloa Training Area Public Affairs Officer will talk of
possible public availability of a PTA shooting range.
MD: Good evening everybody. Yeah, so I was invited to this meeting just to
monitor and kind of observe the conversation and, you know, from a
Pohakuloa Training Area perspective, yeah, there's — if you just take away
all the filters — there's certainly potentials for PTA to be in the conversation.
However, as I've heard many times and tonight that things are political —
things are bureaucratic and so Mr. Greg Fleming — our Deputy Garrison
Commander is online as well — this has been run to ground historically — off
the chain — and I will tell you from my perspective this is a senior [unclear]
officer involvement — this has to go all the way back to the Pentagon — so
my thought is because I believe that PTA has a great amount of potential to
be more involved with the community — and this is just one idea and so for
these kinds of things to happen and for me to be an action officer and try to
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carry the flag up to the Pentagon and get some traction is not a smart
strategy. I think that there is a need for this requirement on Hawaii Island
and PTA certainly has the land — we already have the facilities — but to
make that happen you've got to get out legislators, our senators and
representatives involved — push it top down bottom line. That's the only
way it's gonna happen at a federal installation like PTA. Greg, you want to
compliment or tag onto that?
GF: Sure, thanks Mike. I appreciate it and I too have just kind of attending for
situational awareness and Mike, I think captured it pretty accurately. And
I'm glad to see Tom Lodge is on as well. I've spoken before on this issue and
hunting issues before the GMAC in the past 7 years since I've been the
deputy up there and we looked at it pretty hard several years ago when the
attempt failed on the west side and you mentioned that earlier with the
[unclear] gun club or the rifle ranges — and since that time, you know, it's
become even more difficult particularly when you have the environmental
impact statement going on for — [unclear] retention - Army train land
retention and that's ongoing now and in fact one time I think we spoke with
Tom about training areas 210 and 11—which are just north of New Saddle
Road near the state park up there — near [unclear] park — that being a
critical habitat area for the Palila — and that has its own implications even to
get access to that to shoot anything up there would be incompatible with
its use and you have to have the whole thing delisted which is a
tremendous effort to try and get something like that — plus it's part of that
consideration for the various proposed alternatives — part of the EIS that
we're undergoing right now regarding our state leased lands. So it would be
an uphill battle if my [unclear] correct. It won't get solved here locally. That
has to go all the way back to the Pentagon and probably get muddle and
tied up with that discussion at EIS on the — what to do with the state leased
lands — kind of our approaches there are our alternative. So we looked at
before and we even looked at bringing folks on to the installation and
maybe using one of the active ranges turning range 13, which is kind of
right in the center of PTA so it's access issues — bringing on firearms —
munitions that all have to be worked out — we have to use an MWR morale
welfare and recreation type activity which gets no funding, no support from
the Garrison — has to be totally run though its own profits and it has to be
separate from and command [unclear] so it's difficult. I don't want to paint
15
a picture that it's great but Mike points out we already have hunting and
we took that a long way — we first met with Tom Lodge and others from the
hunting community and made that available to hunters to come on to PTA
and actually use bow for our mammals and then shotguns for the upland
game birds. Now we have not gone to any high powered or long rifles — so
as a person who own firearms and I actually lived next to Camp Perry and
grew up there — and attended all the national rifle association
championships — worked there — taught hunter safety back in the '70s,
yeah, I'm very much into wanting to have a rod gun club or some place to
shoot skeet or trap or something like and I'm very supportive but it's a hard
push to get access on the PTA although we may have a space —there is a lot
that has to be done to make that happen — so I don't want to paint a rosy
picture but a more accurate one for you all. So thanks, Mike.
AA: Richard's got a question for you, real quick...
RH: It's not a question — I just wanted to jump in with my own personal
involvement. I've dealt with a couple of commanders at PTA over the years
— Shwedo and Martinez come to mind — there may have been somebody
else and the last time was when Senator — we were directed by one of our
legislators to really try to work with PTA as a facility instead of building
where we proposed. And I spent a day — maybe two days with Sgt. Major
Campbell and we toured PTA —Tom Campbell?
MD: Yes, Tom Campbell... Yup, yup.
RH: We toured PTA and we looked at perhaps that facility you talked about that
was in the middle —it was an area that shooting had occurred in for military
purposes and he was at least suggesting something like that might be
available but the problem with going through the gate and getting into PTA
with firearms is —there's' 2 issues: 1) you have to get every firearm you
bring on PTA pre -registered in order to get it there which makes it very
difficult for somebody that decides on a Monday morning they want to go
shoot; 2) you're at the mercy of the military use of the facility which is the
reason that it's there but you can't do any effective long term planning to
schedule activities such as competitive shooting and trust me — I've been
the president and part of — I've been in competitive shooting my entire life
16
— I've been hunting for 70 years and I've been a competitive shooter for
most of that time — those competitive events are scheduled a year in
advance and if you're at the — you only can get in there when the military's
not using it — that doesn't work — so you don't know when they're gonna be
there or when they're not gonna be there — and PTA in recent years has
seen more use than it has in some of the past years so that's one issue. We
also looked at an area down around the 5 -mile marker. That Tom indicated
to us might be available for some work and set-up as — some sort of a
shooting facility — I'm not sure how much acreage we were talking about
when we drove down there and looked at it — it was quite hilly so there
would be a lot of dozer work for sure to get it to where you could use it.
The advantage of it is — you wouldn't have to go in through the gate. You
could have your own access and access is a big issue. So we did work with
PTA but my personal opinion and from what I heard from you is that may
not be where the focus wants to be just from my perspective.
GF: No, it's — yeah that's a great summary and I was there for that whole time
so I'd probably breech it — I told Tom Campbell to go down and look at that
area which is south of DKI and we have property, believe it or not, on that
south side as you near the 50 -mile marker. It extends off the road about
150 yards — so you could use that as a back -stop but then it — the point of
impact would be likely on state lands —just beyond if you're using long
rifles so — it would be a great place to pull off the road and kind of set-up
but you're right next to the road so there are safety concerns and it makes
it difficult but you know, you're exactly right — so it started with Tubby
Shwedo my boss and then Jake Peterson who followed him, Chris Marquez
and now JR Borce. So I've worked for all those gentlemen and the Sgt.
Majors and been part of this whole process for the past 7 years so, ah, I'm
not saying it's not impossible but I'm gonna tell you it's not easy — and Mike
said it exactly correct — that would from the highest levels within the Army
to get the OK and then running the facility. You cannot use appropriated
funds that means dollars that are allocated — make PTA operational in our
budget. You have to be fully self-supporting and that's hard to do when you
have to pay for the building, the electricity, the parking lot, maintenance of
all that — you have to put in security — again, I'm not saying it's impossible.
The Army makes things possible sometimes, but it would take a heavy pull
to make that all happen — that's for sure.
17
RH: Yeah, Tom Campbell was a great guy, by the way...
GF: He is...
RH: He was a fantastic...
GH: He's a good guy... Yeah.
RH: Yeah, he's a good one. I've remembered who was pushing us to go to PTA it
was Lorraine Inouye.
?: Yeah, Lorraine was — Senator Inouye and also Cindy Evans, of course, we
see her often up there and talk to her about it — she's made a big point — I
know — you mentioned earlier about some funding she gathered for us and
was able to get that for the work being done on the west side and then
Lorraine Inouye was up there — Senator Inouye was up there many times to
talk about it — having a need for that. And then we also talked about
enhancing, you know, cause there was something out there already — the
course is a range — it's kind of off the highway at mile marker 16 up north
side of DKI — I've been out there, used it — it's not much there — but could
you enhance it and make it to be what you want it to be? I don't know. You
look at it...
?: Can I ask a question on that with the Mile Marker 16? Cause I've been told
DLNR's been out there checking hunting permits and it's like it's a gun
range so why are they expecting hunting permits, you know, especially for
retired police officers — we'd like to go shoot and there's no way for us to
shoot on the island unless we get like a star protection agency to come out
from Honolulu and go to Parker Ranch.
?: Yeah, I don't know much more than anything on Mile Marker 16 than I
know where it is and I've been there and used it once. You have to have a
hunting permit —you're right.
KU: Mike and Gregory — I'm a high power commuter — I travel to — oh, sorry, my
name is Kean, District 2 — I travel to Oahu and I shoot at the Puuloa Rifle
Range — that's a naval base, I believe, for me to go and access the base to
get on that thing — I had to go through a pretty extensive background check
and I got a DBIDS card. That DBIDS card allows me to go into the base and
shoot at a facility and compete. I'm not a member of the Puuloa Rifle Club —
I'm just a civilian — you don't have to be a member — but that's how they
got started with a gun club — through competitions and even practices
there. All I do when I get there — everyday that I go and compete we have
to show our rifles to [unclear] they check the rifle and make sure it's with
registration — cause I had to register my rifles and the Sgt. in charge of the
rifle match — definitely he's in charge of all the ranges here in the state. He
asked me why aren't we shooting at Pohakuloa and I said it's never been
open for us. He said, you got the DBIDS card — you can get a gun club
together and try to form something, approach I guess Mike or Greg —
maybe we'd get something done 'cause he said that's a perfect place to
hold some matches or even have practices up there.
GF: No, I've said it's a good point the DBIDS card is for the navy and the marines
— that's their base access patches. They use that card. We would do
something similar — we would honor the DBIDS to a certain extent,
however, you've got to have a place to go. As soon as you leave the
[unclear] area of PTA you're on an active range or training area. So as soon
as you walk off our cantonment you're already on the range — you're
already on a range or a training area and so the folks back in the Pentagon
it's called G3/5/7 or the Operations guys who administrate all of our active
and ranges throughout the Army — they get a little excited about that cause
you know it's really for the Army and the other services to train on — so you
got to compete — we mentioned that earlier — you're constantly competing
so you can't really long term plan anything. I know where the National Rifle
Championships are at Camp Perry every year — so you can't necessarily do
that at PTA — we even have difficulties [unclear] the hunting as Mike knows
and trying to schedule us open up training areas [unclear] compatible use
for hunting and that's even difficult sometimes for us to make that — we
really make an effort to do it but to have a set range — a trap or skeet range
or a long gun range for targetry is difficult. And, you know, the access is just
part of it — a lot of people don't want to kind of go through that — they
don't want to go through an NCIC - through the National Criminal
Investigation Database check and have to go through all of that and have us
have all their records — some people baulk at that but that's what it would
take — no, that's just one of the many issues we have that — yeah, [unclear]
under the DBIDS card.
19
MD: Greg, and I always compliment that by saying that there is no question
there's great potential. As I've mentioned before it has to be Command
supported and it's not necessarily just the Lt. Colonel Borce or Shwedo or
Warline Richardson or any of the previous commanders. I believe that they
all believe that it's a good thing from a community relations perspective
this is a win-win for Hawaii Island if we could make that happen but it has
to be top down driven and that's why I say we have to get our Senators and
Congressmen involved.
RH: I have a Camp Perry story for the gentlemen.
AA: You got to make it quick.
RH: OK. My memory of Camp Perry is driving from our house in Toledo to visit
my aunt in Cleveland. We drive right by Camp Perry. And in those days it
was a prisoner war camp — all of the Italian and German prisoners were
hanging on the chain link fences around Camp Perry.
GF: That is so cool because you drove past my house then. I lived in Port Clinton
and I've got a picture of my mother when she was about 8 years old
standing in front of that fence and her cousin was on the inside. We're
German Americans — third generation so... Sad story for us when you see
your cousin in a prisoner of war camp there at Camp Perry — so it was kind
of a weird thing. I know it well.
AA: Thanks Greg, thanks Mike for the information. Keoni Dela Cruz your
question?
KD: I was talking about the Mile Marker 16, you know, cause I'm a retired
federal officer and there's [unclear] police officers on the Island but we
have to depend on [unclear] sending somebody over from Oahu to have us
host a range and I was told that if you go to Mile Marker 16 you gotta have
a hunting license — I'm not going hunting — I'm going to practice.
KU: Yeah, I can answer that for you. Kean — District 2. From what DLNR tells me
because it's a hunting area and there's no range safety officer — that
hunting license if you look at it covers all liability if you get shot or
20
somebody gets hurt — and that's the only reason why they require a
hunting license.
RH: It is not a hunting area. The Land Board said it took it out of being a Forest
Reserve and turned it in to quote "a shooting range."
KU: Yeah... See that's where the grey area is because it's still considered...
RH: It's not grey at all...
KU: It is... I not gonna get into any arguments but if you want a real good
answer talk to DLNR, DOFAW — I don't know — maybe Ian, can you
elaborate on it...?
AA: Yeah, Abraham, that's why we had Darren Ogura to speak on Mile Marker
16, but he's not here right now so, Ian if you like respond to Keoni's
question that would be great.
IC: OK. I can tell you what I've been told... It is supposed to be an Executive
Ordered out of the Forest Reserve or Restricted Watershed — if that process
hasn't happened it still lies in within Forest Reserve. But it's kind of a moot
point because if you're shooting there, you're already breaking just
randomly shooting you're not following Forest Reserve rules and you're
shooting during the week so it doesn't matter — this is what I've been told
and I don't have a piece of paper to back it up, but the Attorney General
told Darren, I believe, that it's not — you can't enforce having to have a
hunting license — there's nothing to say that you have to have that — so
called DOCARE about it and they said that it's on the rule — and I said well
we just made those rules as a guideline for the range so this is why when
people call and ask me — I direct them to Division of Conservation and
Resource Enforcement because I don't cite people — that's not my job —
[unclear]. I tell 'em to call DOCARE which is our enforcement arm to get the
scoop straight from them 'cause they're the ones who would be citing you
— I personally don't think there's grounds to stand on for the citation but
it's a real pain in the bottom if they take your gun and you have to go back
to get it — I just talked to a gentleman who went through that but not at the
range so I get mixed stories — whether or not they're actually enforcing that
21
or not and I have a conflicted report as to whether or not they can enforce
that, that doesn't help you the day an officer wants to enforce it but what I
do is I send them to DOCARE — the point of contact I was given from the
enforcement arm is Andy Ford he was gonna be the guy kind of involved
with the Mile Marker 16 Range and I just tell people ask him directly what
the scoop is because I've gotten mixed messages — that doesn't help but
that's the best I can do because I don't do the enforcement of the area but
as far as it being taken out by the Land Board as a range — it is but it needs
to actually — if you want to make a push — it has to be executive ordered
out of the Forest Reserve — it's a process that many pieces of land get
caught up in — I don't know where they get hung up — but it happens with a
lot of unencumbered land as well.
?: Ian, so I want to make this kind of clear cause it — Richard said it's not a
designated hunting area anymore. So is it - stay at a hunting area or is that
designated as a range?
IC: Well, the Board intended to designate it as a range — there's map showing a
safety zone behind it defining the parameters of the range — but what I'm
saying is even if the Board did it — it has to be executive ordered out of the
Forest Reserve. So the argument is two -fold — that DOCARE is citing people
cause they don't have a hunting license but that's a weird argument
because technically you're not supposed to be in there with a gun anyway
during the week days if you're claiming that it's a hunting area. Kean — you
got a different response about a little bit about safety — I got a response a
little bit like hunter education [unclear] some level of assurance to
enforcement that they've gone through some training — been a long time
since I went to Hunter Ed but I don't recall handling a firearm very much in
Hunters' Ed — so I don't know if that's a real good — you could get as much
from an NRA beginner's course as you would from — more actually — than
you would from hunter's education so I kind of feel like that's not a very
good reason to require a hunting license. The other reason I was given was
that the sales from licenses where PR generates it's funds — not the only
source of revenue for Pittman -Robertson — the monies that went into
helping to develop the back berms there and that's what I was told —
hunters generate that monies but that's not necessarily true because
ammunition sales, binoculars, other things go into funding Pittman -
Robertson funds so I still am just telling people to just call the Division of
22
Conservation and Resource Enforcement because if I tell you to go up there
without a hunting license cause it doesn't make sense to me — I don't want
you to get cited — so I was told to send people to Andy Ford and you can ask
for him — you guys can try to call the head of DOCARE — I think that's Lino
[Kamakau] still — but I stopped giving out an answer because I feel like I get
multiple answers and it's not really my jurisdiction to enforce so I don't
want to get people in trouble.
AA: OK. Anymore questions or comments for Ian or Mike? No? Sorry, Abraham,
District 5, so Mike on this shooting range issue — I strongly support if it was
to move this thing forward for several reasons — one is in the Legislature
there's a bill that's going through and Todd Yukutake is probably gonna talk
about it in a little bit but it's SB 532 1 think and it's a self-defense law that
they're trying to introduce and with all these people in the state or just on
our island that's acquired all these weapons and like you guys say — they're
not properly trained so if you go back to if someone comes to the point in
time where they actually have to use it — and they don't know how to use it
— they might hurt themselves or some family member before they even
hurt the person that they're intending to hurt that's affecting them.
?: Can I say something on that — for the understanding there of that law for
the self-defense. As you know, we've had several carjacking and other
instances on the Island — a criminal is not going to abide by the law but you
guys on the Commission and those of us that are law abiding citizens that
you know registered our weapons, have training and everything else, but
we're not allowed to carry them to protect ourselves...
AA: Right and that's going back to — you train people. I'm just talking about we
need places for the untrained people because now it's kinda like more
dangerous for them — themselves — in any type of issue or situation.
?: So also too with this self-defense thing and then trying to get a range and
everything would that also fall in line with the Young vs. Hawaii lawsuit
that's going on right now?
AA: Is that the concealed carry one?
?: Oh, yeah... That's open carry...
23
?: It's actually open carry not the concealed carry...
?: Yeah, yeah...
AA: I'm not sure. I think Todd can probably touch up on that when the time
comes — where you can re -ask that question. And then, as far as our
shooting range down at Puuanahulu — so that's my support on the shooting
range issue — the problem that I see with this shooting range issue is the
resorts and even Blue Hawaii Helicopter from what I understand. So maybe
we can have a future meeting and we'll invite them over and we'll see what
their real issue is with it. Also, financing so we're also supposed to have
Darren talk about, I guess, P & R funding — so we're gonna try and get him
to come back on a future date. So it sounds like funding and noise seems to
be the real issue with all this. So we'll look more into it before we continue
on with this issue. So at this time we're going to move on to Todd Yukutake
and he's from Hawaii Firearms Coalition and he's gonna give us the
legislative update.
f. Todd Yukutake of Hawaii Firearms Coalition Legislative Report:
TY: Thank you, I'm Todd Yukutake — I'll be going over the laws — I'll just go back
to the Young case real quick — that's in the 9t" Circuit Court of Appeals —
that would allow you to carry a firearm in public and that could be decided
in as soon as a couple of months to a couple of years from now. And that
could possibly require additional training to do — so that creates more
importance for a proper firearms training area for the Big Island, yeah? And
let me just share my screen — I sent in a link — I put a link in the chat of my
bill tracker for the legislature — on it, it shows all the statuses on the bills.
Can everyone see this? Just checking up?
Group: Yes.
TY: So, these are all the proposed laws for Hawaii for 2021— that's currently in
the legislature. In the left column it says opposed and support — that's our
positions on the bills but there's varying degrees of support and opposing —
in general we're opposed to any additional farm regulations — so if
something is - been opposed we don't necessarily care about like firearm
24
storage — the first one. But I'll go through this list real quickly. Just stop me
if there's any additional questions. On your tracking sheet — there's the
links for all the bills so if you want to read the wording in it — just click on
that link which is right here... OK.
First off we have HB 31— Firearms Stores: This one we're not really
opposed to — basically it changes the age from 16 to 18 where you have to
securely instore your firearm in your home — if you don't give your children
permission to touch them — if you do give your permission to your kids to
handle your firearms when you're not there this doesn't apply — like if they
want to go hunting or firearm shooting in the back — stuff like that. Major
issue I have with firearms storage is — law is — the current penalty right now
— it is a Class C felony if you leave your firearms in your home unsecured
and you don't give your kids permission to touch them — so, it's a little
harsh — maybe it should be a petty misdemeanor but that's current law
right now.
HB 251 — .50 caliber — this could affect some hunters — mainly like the big
game safari hunters — but also if you hunt with a revolver too. This bill
basically says any firearm that can shoot a .50 Cal half-inch or larger bullet —
so that would be like the Safari Rifle if you shoot bison and, you know, big
game — stuff like that. Five hundred Smith & Weston revolvers — that would
be banned under this law. So, we have to get this — the primary reason for
having this ban is — for. 50 Campbell BMG rifles like in the military — they're
afraid you can shoot down an airplane or snipe a person, two miles away
which isn't realistic and usually they're not an issue in the US — no one's
been killed by one of these things here — so at the very least if you want to
oppose this law or just exclude hunting rifles and, revolvers and things like
that.
BL: Quick question — Brian — District 4 — did they change the wording on it
cause the last I heard the .50 Cal and above would outlaw any 410 or
above, I mean, anything above a 410 so... Twenty gage, 12 -gauge shotguns
would be illegal under this and I own a .50 caliber muzzle loader — are they
taking muzzle loaders out of this equation?
TY: They did take it out. It went through one committee in the senate and they
stripped out shotguns and muzzle loaders. Yeah, in the past it was anything
25
over .50 Cal so even your musket could be banned but they excluded those
two items but it's still a [unclear] hunting rifles and revolvers and handguns.
BL: Thank you.
TY: I hope that answered your question. HB 534 — that's the self-defense law
Abraham was referring to — basically it would — if you have to use your
firearm in self-defense — it protects you from criminal and civil liability. So it
would protect you from going to jail — and it would protect the criminal
from suing you for injuring them or killing them. So that's the main thing
and also no duty to retreats — you don't have to give up your item if you get
robbed — stuff like that — but unfortunately it did die today in the Judiciary
Committee so it's dead for the year — we'll see it again next year. So all
these bills in pink —those are dead.
HB 662 — I believe — did GMAC put this in or someone put this in — but
basically restores limited firearms ownership if you are banned from
owning firearms before — in particular misdemeanor offenses for violence
and was it drug use or drug sale — but only at the misdemeanor level — and
it excludes domestic violence. But with this you can own a long gun — so
rifle or shotgun — this has to be passed — approved by a judge — if you've
been clear for at least 10 years of no arrests. And you have to get a hunting
license. Then you can buy a rifle or shotgun and then you can use that for
hunting and target practice. So, that's moving through the legislature. Ah,
that one — I was surprised it was overwhelming support for it in the
legislature so far — one notable exception was one legislator — Kapela — with
Ocean View to Captain Cook — Kailua-Kona area - I think she's the only one
that opposed it. So you might want to give her a call and tell her more
about this bill to get her support but, I think it was like 50 yes votes and she
was the only no vote, I believe on that one so far. OK. Any questions on that
one — that would open up hunting to more people?
AA: No. Keep going...
TY: HB 711— that's the same as the self-defense law. I'm just going to skip over
some of these. HB 889 is notable —this bill is actually redundant. We won a
settlement against the state a few months ago — basically American
Samoans that were not citizens in the US — they have a special thing going
26
on there — they could not own firearms — they were banned — even though
they're kind of part of the US in American Samoa. But, with the settlements
— it was found unconstitutional so American Samoans that are not US
citizens can purchase firearms now. So get that out to all the people that
want to hunt but couldn't buy a firearm before — so that is a state level
settlement with the governor.
890 has to do with the OSAW [Office of Safety and Wellness] law
enforcements — being able to carry firearms. Let me see what else you got
here.
SB 301— a senate bill. That used to be an assault weapons ban bill which
would then — almost every semi-automatic rifle that could take a magazine
— but, we got a lot of support to oppose it so it turned in to just a magazine
ban that holds over 10 rounds. So that could be ar-15 rifles, ar-10s, you
know, some people use those for hunting, although you probably have to
limit the rounds, you know.
What do you call that bill — m1 carbines law - hunters use for pig hunting. If
this passes, they'd have to get rid of A magazines over 10 rounds.
SB 305 — that would be a big one for hunting. Restrictions on lending a
firearm to others. So currently, you can loan a rifle or shotgun to anyone
that's not prohibited, to go hunting — keep at home or take to the mainland
for hunting or firearms schools or whatever — in the state you can loan it
out for 15 days — if they go out of state — they can hold on to that gun for
75 days. What this bill does — is it restricts it to 12 hours — you can only loan
a firearm to someone for up to 12 hours in state or out of state. And they
have to have a firearms permit or already own a firearm — so that was —
that could affect a lot of hunters like, for hunting trips. You loan your
firearm out to your friend or if they want to go to Maui to deer hunt — you
give them your rifle — they have to be back and give it back to you within 12
hours. Also, again, if they don't already have a firearm or they don't have a
firearm permit — you can't give it to them at all. So that's what that bill
does... SB 305...
SB 334 - We do have another self-defense bill — SB 334 — let's say if you
defend yourself against a criminal in an attack and for some reason you
27
injure them or you kill them — if you get arrested — go to trial — but you're
found not guilty due to self-defense — the state will reimburse your legal
fees — which could be tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars — and also
protect you from future civil lawsuits from that criminal or the family. So
that's SB 334...
All these other ones in red are dead right now. And then, I got a few
hunting bills — HB 32 prohibits manufacture or sale of fur products.
Basically, you cannot manufacture clothing from animal products - except
for some exceptions - and sell them. Some of those exceptions are leather
products, taxidermy, dogs and cats — I'm not sure if that's actually a
[unclear] — those types of items you can still sell but this could exclude
things like it you raise rabbits for food and maybe you make clothing out of
their fur — you cannot sell those if this passes. That's HB 32...
HB 663 has a hearing tomorrow in the Judiciary. There's actually three
hearings going on about hunting bills — so that's for the State GMAC
Committee appointments. The only thing that changes this when they're
appointed — or how they're appointed — is the president of the senate and
the house — they'll give the governor a list of nine names and then the
governor has to choose one of those names on that list to be a member of
the GMAC State Committee.
[Unclear] position on these bills. We don't really deal with hunting — I don't
hunt myself — so I'm not sure what kind of position to take on these. HB
1020 authorizes DLNR to adopt and repeal a rule temporarily. Let me pull
this one up - I'm not too familiar on this — but basically they can have a
hearing within 30 days and adopt certain types of rules based on like an
emergency basis — and those are based on — so things that can change with
this is bag limits — size limits — open or closed hunting seasons or gear
restrictions. So I guess that's so they can implement these really quick
within 30 days — they give a 30 day notice and vote on it — and it's — goes
into law within 10 days — but this is for hunting and they have the same
thing for Aquatic too — fishing and stuff. So they can make quick changes
with this.
HB 1021— inter -state wildlife violator compact — basically the state would
join a path with 48 other states and you — let's say you have a hunting
M
violation and get your hunting license revoked — you cannot hunt in any of
those other compact states and the same is true in the reverse. If you lose
your hunting license in one of those states —you cannot hunt in Hawaii. So
that's what 1021 is about.
HB 568 could possibly open up more hunting lands for everyone — on
private hunting lands — what this does is it — there's already an existing law
that reduces liability to landowners if they allow people to use their land
for hiking, fishing, hunting and other activities. I guess it's a weak law so
landowners still don't allow those type of activities on their land in case you
trip and fall and sue them — this bill enhances it — clarifies the wording and
if a person does a frivolous lawsuit against that landowner — that
landowner can recover legal fees from them when they win. So that might
open up more private hunting lands and recreational lands.
I think that's about it and all of these are moving through the legislature
right now — most of these will die — probably only two, three or four out of
each category — hunting and firearms — will actually pass. So most of these
will most likely die and just some deadlines here... One deadline coming up
is March 5 — called first decking. That means the bills have to complete all
of their committees or they're gonna die. So let's say, for example, let me
see which ones you have [unclear] — HB 662 — Restore Firearms Ownership
—that one has to have a finance committee scheduled and completed by
next week Friday — March 5. If it isn't heard in committee by then it dies. So
what you want to do is you want to start contacting the finance
representative — Sylvia Luke, I believe, and tell her to hear this bill to keep it
alive — 662.
Let me see what else is relevant — so that's an important one. Ah, the other
ones you probably want to do is this landowner liability one 568 — needs a
Judiciary Committee hearing by next week Friday — so that's Karl Rhoads.
Yeah, so those are the two bills you probably want to support — a lot of the
others you probably — might want to oppose — but look into the laws more.
But that's all I have for my presentation. I'll be open to any questions.
AA: Any questions or comments for Todd. All right, thanks Todd — a good
presentation.
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TY: OK. You're welcome
AA: OK. We're moving on to Old Business... Barbara — did Maurice get back?
BK: No, he did not. I can text him now.
AA: That's all right. We can table him for next meeting.
BK: OK. Thank you.
6. OLD BUSINESS
a. Commissioner vote on an advisory letter from GMAC regarding the DLNR
Mauna Kea eradication agenda.
AA: For our commissioners — did everybody get the letter via email? (Draft
letter to Gov. Ige) Kean got it. Brian got it. Stanley got it. Grayson, did you
get it? George did you get the letter?
G D: Yes.
AA: You guys all looked over it? So can we have a motion to move it forward for
the Mayor to look over it? Is that how you say it Barbara?
BK: Yes. You just need action from the committee and then we can go ahead
and send it off to our Mayor for consideration.
Action: B. Ley motioned that the advisory letter from GMAC regarding the DLNR
Mauna Kea eradication agenda move to Mayor Roth's office for his
consideration and action. Seconded by S. Mendes. Motion carried
unanimously.
AA: Oh yeah, and then there's some pictures that Nani and Brian took over the
weekend that kind of supports why they should stop the eradication up
there — all the grass and the dead trees around.
BL: The naio trees...
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AA: The naio trees and the mamane...
BL: [Unclear] downloaded...
AA: Is the picture up? OK, moving on then to New Business...
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AA: I guess the State GMAC representative or the Governor's Office asked the
Mayor for representatives — to put representatives in for State GMAC and
for East Hawaii we've got Brian Ley and for West Hawaii we got Teresa
Nakama. Anybody else got anything else to say on that? OK.
Announcements...
8. ANNOUNCEMENTS:
AA: We got a new person coming in — already applied for District 3 — Lehmann
Turalde. Lehmann are you present? No?
OK. As far as Cortney's application — everything is moving forward. She's
gonna be covering District 8. Moving on to Commissioners Reports...
BK: Chair, I believe it's District 7.
AA: I talked to Pomai earlier — she said it was District 8. District 7 gonna be
open.
BK: OK. Thank you.
9. COMMISSIONERS REPORT BY DISTRICT:
AA: No commissioner reports...
10. COMMITTEE REPORTS:
AA: Barbara did you get a chance to email everybody on what committees do
we have?
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BK: It should be right there in your packet — so it was the last thing that was
copied this afternoon. I can read it. I have the Shooting Range: we have
Stanley, Kean, Tom Lodge and Jim O'Keefe.
AA: OK.
BK: Cultural Practices we have Teresa Nakama. For Legislative we have:
Grayson, George, Stanley and Nani. And Mauna Kea Task Force: Stanley
and Nani. Um, Abraham I guess you're on all of the above and then Brian
can decide which ones he's gonna support. I got this list from Nani and I
went through the old files as well. So this is something you can work off of.
Val 9 "N
? [Not speaking in mic]
BL: Can we go back to number 9? Commissioners Report by District?
AA: Yeah.
BL: Brian — District 4. 1 was just gonna say I'm still waiting for the Pittman -
Robertson expenditure budget from the State. We've asked for it for
several weeks and we keep getting a road block and hopefully this week or
next week I'll be able to get it in and Barbara can print it out with the State
expenditures —spending our P&R money on. So hopefully we'll have that
for the next meeting. Thank you.
AA: Ian? Can you help us out with that?
IC: Yeah, I can follow-up. I didn't know you guys had put the request in for that
— I can see where that's at...
AA: Yeah, Brian, I know he asked me about it so I let him go and ask for the
expenditures for it so — like he said — he's hitting a stone wall — we must get
a little more info on that...
IC: Sure. Brian — who've you been contacting just so I know who...
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BL: I've been talking to Jason Omick.
IC: OK
BL: Yeah, he said he was the one that makes all the things to send to the
Wildlife Commission for the budget...
VA 9 "N
IC: OK.
AA: Thanks, Ian.
IC: Just one quick question, Abraham. Is Brian moving to the State GMAC? I
missed the...
BL: I'm gonna be on both.
AA: He was recommended and his application is already in on the State GMAC
and so is Teresa Nakama — her application is already in on for the west side
— so both of them are applicants — so maybe if there's something you can
also do to push them along?
IC: I can try. (Unclear) — and so I'm in the same boat as you — we were told to
hurry up and find folks and then we found folks and then it's been a
stalemate — I guess I can try and figure out where the process stalls but...
BL: The last I heard it was [unclear]...
IC: ....[Unclear].
BL: ....for the Governor to make a decision and then the last I heard is the
Governor called Barbara or Pomaika'i and that's why we ended up on the
board tonight so I don't know what's going on at the state level.
IC: OK. Yeah, I'll try to follow-up. I've been asking Jason about that myself and I
don't really — there's a reaction now — it's obviously a stalemate so I'm not
sure what the — what has to happen — I was figuring that the
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recommendations put forth by us when we get your names are just taken —
I didn't think the Governor did an in personal interview to figure that
process — so I'll try to dig into that.
AA: Yeah, thanks. We get two people here chomping at the bit to get in there
so... You just let us see what that roadblock is and jump over it. OK?
TN: Excuse me. Could I ask Ian a question?
AA: Sure Teresa.
TN: Ian, what is Jason Omick's role with GMAC?
IC: With GMAC? He's a hunter — game administer for the Hunter -Game
Program Administrator at the admin level. So as far as with like...
TN: Have you spoken to him recently?
IC: I mean from time -to -time I speak to him, yeah... I suppose... A lot of emails.
TN: No recently, have you spoken to him recently.
IC: Well, probably in the last couple of weeks...
TN: Anytime during the past two weeks?
IC: Ah, yes.
TN: Cause I've tried and left him messages and he's not returned any of my
requests.
AA: Yeah, he...
IC: About the State GMAC?
TN: Yes. I had some questions. But he's not returning my call.
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IC: OK.
AA: Yeah, Ian, Abraham — I also called and left message and he didn't return the
phone calls either.
IC: OK, that's good to know. Getting a little bit of feedback from the admin side
that county level should be handled [unclear] districts. So you guys should
also — better run it through your State GMAC, which you tried to do —
because you're trying to get on the State GMAC — but I can send an email
off right now and see what's going on.
AA: OK. Thanks, Ian. Anybody want to move for adjournment — would like to
make a motion?
Action: S. Mendes moved to adjourn. Seconded by K. Umeda. Motion carried
unanimously.
Next Meeting is March 23, 2021 at 6:30 PM.
ATTEST:
Abraham Antonio
Chair
Respectfully submitted by,
Barbara Kossow
Secretary
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