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thinking? She didn’t think the way the definitions were set up that it would fall on a small business owner in that way, but she would have to double check. That is an important point, she said. Chair Adams said from her reading there are several levels of exclusions and exemptions based on size. The intent of the law was not to bury small companies, but to deal with the larger companies that can afford to incorporate those costs into their operations. Commissioner Olson commented on the importance of engaging the consumer in coming to understand the differentials in cost of packaging, and products in general in terms of their end life disposal. And when you go out and talk to people about it, they really don’t have any idea of the large range for products that seem, when they purchase them, to all be the same. That’s one of those things we are still having discussion about. How do we fully engage the consumer, because there really is no method currently to do that. Rep. Lowen said we want consumers to be aware, and we want people to take individual action to do what they can, but it’s not expected to be a successful approach to assume that individual action is going to solve this problem. We need system reform. The idea that if everyone just recycles, we’re going to solve this waste management problem. Obviously the vast majority of what ends up in our landfill isn’t just what people put in their trash can anyway. So it’s a much bigger question. Individual action to educate is important, but we have to move past thinking of this as a problem that always only falls on the shoulders of people at the very end of the chain of all of this, and rather as the built-in responsibility of the people who are manufacturing products and profiting from selling them. Commissioner Olson said he concurred with all of the above. Commissioner Cardwell thanked Rep. Lowen her comments. This is way beyond individual actions. We can all play a little part in this, but the change has to happen at the top. The change has to happen with the corporations that are making all this stuff that ends up in the landfill, and that is where we are going to see real change. On the topic of the ADF fee being 1.5 cents for the last 27 years, Commissioner Cardwell asked if that is enough money. That needs to be changed, so how does that happen? At what level would that change need to happen for a price increase? 7 Ms. Berrig said there was a bill to increase the amount to 5 cents, but there was something else that piggybackedabout part of the money that had to go to reusable bottle washing, and not just deposit and redemption, which kind of clouded the issue. It could have been a much sweeter, simpler bill, saying hey, it has been 1.5 cents for 27 years, may we at least have a cost of living increase to get it back. Because every quarter,we submit documentation for our recycling to DOH for the full cycle of hauling and recycling, and we are given money back 7 SB 1298 SD1: https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=SB&billnumber=1298&year=2021 11