2006-01-20 TIbbetson - Laserfiche WebLink

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LINDSEY:I mean are we talking about like burial area B is you know delineated by rock walls and has stone platforms within. It may have been unknown at some point in time but as of March 11, 2003 it was known to Mr. Ibbetson and myself. SIRACUSA:Well, I only mentioned that because at our earlier meeting here it was brought up that burial area B wasnt noticed immediately. If I recall correctly that it was only a little bit later on that it was noticed because it had been so overgrown. So I was wondering, well if that was overgrown maybe there were burials on the property that were even a earlier date that might have been even more overgrown with possibly the stones would you know would have tumbled down and not form such a demarcated area. LINDSEY:It was my understanding that Mr. Ibbetson had been working with members of the church associated with this property. And that the burial areas at the church was aware of had been pointed out during those discussions to him. He never indicated that there wasquestionsfromthechurchmembersofothersitesthattheyhadheardoforknewaboutthat could not be found at that point in time. Now on any property in Hawaii there could be burials that you know pre-date, that are older I guess than the activity thats going. But as far as burials specifically related to the church activities, it was my understanding at the time of my site visit that those had all been identified and there was no question, there was no question about, sites that could not be found. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yeah, Im looking at the conveyance which is exhibit C, which starts know ye by, know all men by these presence and it refers to on line, on line 7, all of that certain place or parcel of ground. And then the third paragraph, to have and to hold the said premises with the appurtenances so that it may be used as a cemetery. And this is relating, referring to all of that parcel to be used as a cemetery. To the said Board of the Hawaiian Evangelical Association, its successors and assigns forever. And so this is relating to I guess the, why Im questioning that Mr. Matsukawa was asking you about whether you would consider the entire parcel or cemetery or only those specific gravesites. Had you seen this document at the point of th your visit? Did you, had you read this document when you visited on March 11 ? LINDSEY:Ive never seen that document. SIRACUSA:Oh so till this day you havent seen that document? LINDSEY:Thats correct. SIRACUSA:Had you seen this document would you have answered Mr. Matsukawas question differently? LINDSEY:No because I think our job is still protecting where we know there are burials, actual burials existing. And while that deed, it sounds like that deed leaves open the potential for using the entire property as a cemetery my primary responsibility is still to protect where those burials actually exist. EXHIBIT B 15