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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-11-23 Redistricting Commission minutes (8th Session Part 1) 2021 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 8'h Session—Part 1 Tuesday, November 23, 2021 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 ATTENDANCE: Present: Ms. Lehuanani Ah Nee, Commissioner (via Zoom) Mr. `Rina Akamu, Commissioner(via Zoom) Ms. Stephanie Bath, Commissioner (via Zoom) Mr. James Hustace, Vice Chairperson Mr. Bronsten-Glenn Kossow, Chairperson Mr. Stephen Lopez, Commissioner Mr. Meizhu Lui, Commissioner(via Zoom) Ms. Jennifer Yadao, Commissioner Mr. Dwayne Yoshina, Commissioner Also Present: Debbie Ka`ahanui-Hoyohoy, Elections Assistant Diana Mellon-Lacey, Deputy Corporation Counsel Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator Cori Saiki, Elections Program Specialist I Dennis Kauka Jr., Legislative Specialist/ Secretary CALL TO ORDER: KOSSOW: Aloha and welcome to the 8d' Session of the County of Hawaii Redistricting Commission. Today is Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021. My name is Bronsten and I am the Chairperson. First, as an announcement, because of the Coronavirus emergency and State and Federal guidance on large meetings or gatherings and pursuant to the Mayor's proclamation regarding COVID-19, the Redistricting Commission meetings are currently not open to the public to attend in person until further notice. Members of the public may view or provide oral testimony via the Zoom platform by requesting for this information as noticed on our posted agendas. Thank you for your understanding. I'm calling the meeting to order. The time is 9:34 a.m. ROLL CALL KOSSOW: Mr. Kauka, roll call. KAUKA: Commissioner Lui, "Present by Zoom, District 1," Commissioner Yoshina, "Here, in-person," Commissioner Ah Nee, "Present by Zoom, District 3," Commissioner Yadao, "Here, Hilo" Commissioner Bath, "Present, Zoom, for District 5," Commissioner Akamu, "Present via Zoom, District 6" Commissioner Lopez, "Present, District 8, in Kona," Commissioner Hustace, "Present in Kona", Chair Kossow, "Here, in Kona" Thank you, Chair. You have nine members present. KOSSOW: Whoo-hoo! Alright, thank you. As a reminder, during the meeting, we are working with Commissioners in multiple locations. The audio of the meeting is being recorded so as much as possible, let's try to avoid overtalk as that will make it difficult to later transcribe the minutes. Please keep your microphones on mute unless you are speaking. And we ask that for members of the public who are tuned in as well. Commissioners in either Chamber, your microphone can be activated by pressing the button at the base. I won't be able to recognize you if the audio is not coming through so be sure to check if that's on first when speaking. After I recognize you, please state your name for the recording transcription and proceed. If you don't state your name first, we may interrupt to clarify for the speaking of the minutes. Thank you all. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS KOSSOW: Now, for statements from the public. Mr. Kauka? KAUKA: Chair, thank you. We had five members of the public who registered to testify. However, I only see one visitor currently in our Zoom room, but I don't have an identification. May I ask that person to identify themself? (No response.) Chair, I'm not sure if we're having audio difficulties, but there's just one other person with us who's not a commissioner. It might be Ms. Warrington. Ms. Warrington, if you can hear me, you can go ahead and unmute yourself. (No response.) Chair, if you want to proceed, we'll try 2 to work with that individual offline and if other members of the public who registered to testify join us later, I can alert you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Just let us know when testifiers come on. Thank you. KAUKA: Thank you. UNFINISHED BUSINESS KOSSOW: Okay, so we're moving over to unfinished business. Mr. Kauka, unfinished business 1. KAUKA: Thank you. Unfinished Business: 1. Discussion on potential district changes, adjustments, and rational regarding the Commission draft plan and report. Requested by Commissioner Bath, commissioners may discuss, share, and exchange their thoughts and views about their respective and adjacent districts. The Commission continues to develop a draft redistricting map plan for the public to consider before concluding on a final plan. During this portion of the session, Commissioners may engage in dialogue to identify guiding principles or concepts when considering any proposed changes to council district maps, individually present an overview of their districts, and identify key considerations, issues, and approaches relating to the district. (The agenda item is carried over from the November 12'h meeting.) KOSSOW: First of all, thank you, Ms. Bath, for reintroducing this. It is good for our commissioners to get a better understanding of how everybody wants to work, and providing that discussion further. I would like to pass it over to you, if you have any comments on Unfinished Business 1. BATH: Yeah,just having a place for the other commissioners to share any things about their district that might affect the redistricting process. Otherwise, I yield to you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioner Bath. Is there any other commissioners who would like to discuss Unfinished Business 1? (No response.) Aright. We'll just go ahead, and we'll move on to our plans. Because these two items, the alternate and plans submitted by commissioners, are continuous as we work towards deciding on our draft plan. What's labeled on the table, and we can take these up as we focus. Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. Before I read that in, we do have Ms. Shannon Matson, who registered to testify, who's now joined us, if you'd like to take her testimony now. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Please go ahead with the testifier. 3 STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (part 2) KAUKA: Hi, Ms. Matson. If you can hear me, you can unmute yourself and begin your testimony. SHANNON MATSON MATSON: Thank you so much. Apologies for being a little bit late. Yes, I already missed whatever everyone else may have said. I really wanted to thank the staff, first and foremost. Again, mahalo, Commissioners, for all of your hard work doing these maps. But I got a hold of the staff and Royce from the State was able to upload both, James' map number 9, and Bronsten map number 12, into the online app so I could kind of look around them in more detail and see the population numbers. Brenda Ford's has been there since she submitted it. So, I looked at hers originally, and initially, my feeling was that I didn't love her map. And then after spending some time exploring both of the other options, I would like to submit testimony that I strong support Brenda Ford's and I'm hoping that maybe the Commission would be willing to revisit that. I did try to adjust, both James' and Bronsten's. My big problem with it is that I do live on the east side of the island so, I'm very conscious of that fact that HPP is getting split up. As I've heard numerous members of the community say that they don't love that. Unfortunately, when I try to adjust, there's really no easy way to adjust on any different idea that I tried to get better deviation. It just gets worse and worse and worse to try to get HPP altogether. So, I see your struggle. Your struggle is real. Which is partially why I'm now really enjoying Brenda Ford's map. Her map is a 3.5 percent deviation. And after I made a little bit of adjustments to it, and kind of fixed the things that I didn't love, I got hers down to a 2.54. And while lower deviation isn't everything, it's certainly something. And her map, with the adjustments I made, made a lot of sense to me. Overall, I feel her map keeps similar communities together in a really tangible way. I really didn't address her northwest or south parts of the island. I just moved a little bit of stuff around in Puna. And I'm happy to submit my changes that I made to the Commission if you guys want to look at them. I know that the time for submitting public maps has ended. So, I'm not sure if you would be willing to entertain some of the little adjustments I made. After looking at Bronsten's pretty extensively, Chair, I just couldn't make any changes to it without really throwing off the deviations, so I just left it alone. But I did make some changes to James' 9, JH 9. And it was at 6.27 deviation, and my adjustments brought it down to a 4 percent deviation. So, I could submit both of those, like changes that I made, the James 9, and the Brenda Ford's, if anyone was interested in looking at it. I also completely understand if you guys are burnt out on looking at suggestions from the public, and don't want to see those maps in this point and time. But I just wanted to submit testimony that moving forward, my vote would be for Brenda Ford's still, if you guys are willing to look at that again. And if not, I think overall, I think James has better deviation, and then, that map is the one that I see, there are some little tweaks that could be made to make the deviation even better. But overall, I'm still just struggling with the fact that HPP is being split up. I really know that that's not what the community wants. So, I just wanted to put that out there one more time and mahalo you all for your work. And thank you so much for being so accommodating with my schedule. Aloha. 4 KAUKA: Thank you for your testimony, Ms. Matson. We've also been able to confirm, we have a Mrs. Warrington, who is joining us. Aloha, Mrs. Warrington. I'm not sure if you only wanted to observe the meeting, which will be fine. But I wanted to offer you that opportunity now to say so if you wanted to provide your testimony at this time. (No response.) Chair, I think that Ms. Warrington is just listening in. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. We're going to move over to alternate plans. Mr. Kauka, if you want to go ahead and read those into the record. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (part 2) KAUKA: Thank you. Unfinished Business: 2. Alternate Plans. The Commission may review, discuss, and consider any alternate redistricting plans received from the public pursuant to Hawaii County Code Chapter 36, Article 5. And Unfinished Business: 3. Draft plans. The Commission may review, discuss, and consider any redistricting plans submitted by Commissioners and work to develop or decide on its Draft Plan. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. If it's alright, I don't know if the Zoom platform will allow it, but Mr. Hustace wanted to try and share his screen via Zoom platform if that's possible. KAUKA: Chair, sure. If Commissioner Hustace is able to connect to the Zoom from where he is, in order to project his screen, there's no problem with that. We also have staff here who can project on the laptop from our table as well. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you for that. Is there any Commissioners that would like to discuss the alternate plans? That would be Brenda Ford's plan 1220. Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Yes, thank you. I did submit a plan subsequent to the last meeting we had. So, I would like to bring that up during our session today. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Did you send it over to staff at the last meeting, or before the last meeting? LOPEZ: I submitted it up to the County plans, subsequent to the last meeting. KOSSOW: Subsequent. Okay, alright. If staff can go ahead and open up Mr. Lopez's plans. You know what it's called? 5 LOPEZ: Let me look here, quickly. Thank you. (Pause.) It's called COH Kawena D8 Plan 3, submitted on 11-16. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Staff, let me know when you get that. KA`AHANUI-HOYOHOY: It's open. LUL Could you repeat the name it's under? LOPEZ: COH Kawena D8 Plan 3. LUL Oh, okay. I see it. Thanks. BATH: Just to let you know, I'm having trouble bringing up maps today. So, if we could have them zoomed on the screen, that would be helpful. That was Commissioner Bath. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, staff. Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes. It's not too much different than my Plan 2, except that I had to adjust some numbers. My overall goal was to minimize change. Try to keep the integrity of the majority of the district boundaries, while balancing population. Not make anyone too nervous about where they may, or may not, reside change. Protect the integrity of the boards and commissions designations for district attendants or district participation. And I think I pretty well did that. Now, did my deviations? The one that really troubled me that I couldn't get around the census blocks, was District 1. Which has the largest single deviation, 4.75 percent. But other than that, I tried to keep the neighborhoods intact. I tried to keep Waik6loa in one place. I listened to the testimony about the people who wanted to maintain Waik6loa mauka and beach areas. And also, what was brought up regarding the town in Pahoa, and not breaking up Hawaiian Paradise Park any more than absolutely necessary. So, I listed to all that, and again, trying to keep some semblance of normality without shaking up the box too much. So, I believe I accomplished that and submit my map for your consideration. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Is there discussion for Mr. Lopez's map? LUL Can you give us a minute? KOSSOW: No problem, Ms. Lui. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. Thank you. BATH: I'm not having access to the maps, other than through Zoom. Would it be possible if you brought the southeastern area that has Council 4, 5, and a little bit of Ka`u, 6 zoomed in a little bit on it? So I can see what's going on there? (Pause while Commissioner Bath directs staffprojecting the map onto the screen.) Thank you for your efforts on this. What I'm seeing here is that District 5 has become more of a District 4 situation. And the area that you've added in your efforts is very much District 4. That area that we're looking at, the green area, those people polarize towards Pahoa. Their only way in and out of that area is through Highway 130 unless they take the Chain of Craters Road. So, one of the goals that I was thinking to do, is to create districts that would have the Kalapana and all those areas that can't really access District 5, yet they're in District 5, having them into District 4. And in order to do that, unfortunately, HPP will have to be split. But this to me, is totally illogical and doesn't really make sense for District 4, and definitely not for District 5. What's happened here is District 5 is going to have to be represented, the Council person who's representing District 5, is actually going to have to represent District 5 and District 4. Which is sort of happening now, and it's kind of problematic for the people. Did you split Pahoa town, or did you keep it intact together in this? LOPEZ: I believe I kept it intact. BATH: Okay. Can we zoom in on Pahoa town? `Cause it looks like it might be—Pahoa town is actually split in this area. And the problem with that is that the Plan for Pahoa, has two Council people. Oh, I see what you did. Okay, I see what you did here. Alright. So, actually you've moved Pahoa town into District 5, and Pahoa town is District 4, lower Puna's town. Where they do their commerce and shop, a lot of people. And so, to put that into District 5, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But thank you for your efforts. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Yeah, I just want some clarification. Where we supposed to—according to the agenda and my understanding, we were going to discuss two maps as a Commission. And now we have additional information so, how are we approaching this? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, I think we can keep it open for discussion if any Commissioners want to introduce any other maps. That's fine. But we do have two working drafts, and any discussion that comes out of it, then we can implement it into the working drafts. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Is there any further discussion for Mr. Lopez's map? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. 7 HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Lopez, I think when we had testimony from Ms. Ford in the past, and I've been trying to find it on my maps in what she's talking about too, in a sense that, you have to travel through a different district to get to the district you're coming from. I just noticed one here up on Kohala Mountain Road, where you travel through District 1, to get back into District 1. You travel through District 9, basically. There's like a little cut out that goes above Kohala Mountain Road. Some of them are census block issues. So, on the map, it would be on the north side of the island there. I'm not familiar with this area, so maybe a census block issue that lapses over the road, but I can't say for certain. I don't remember here. I think she was speaking to a lot of our maps. I'm struggling to find all in all cases but, where you have to travel between different districts. I'll have to look at that language a little bit more. So, if you could zoom in, I'll just give the example here that I was talking about. If you could zoom in, up north Hawaii, right there between District 9 and 1. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace gave further directors to staffprojecting the map onto the screen.) Yeah, so that little cut out there. Yeah, so it crosses Kohala Mountain Road. I think that was one of the things our testifiers talked about, Ms. Ford in particular, talked about. Just wanted to point that one out. I don't know, there may be other cases too. Like I said, some of our other maps are like that as well. Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Chair, if I may. LOPEZ: May I askoh, sorry. KOSSOW: I'm going to let Mr. Lopez comment, and then, was that Ms. Bath? MELLON-LACEY: No, this is Corporation Counsel Deputy Diana Mellon-Lacey. I just wanted to point out the language that was raised here. It's in Section 36-4 of the Hawaii County Code, number: (11)All parts of each council district shall be contiguous to the council district and be reachable by roads internal to the council district. So, that's the language. KOSSOW: Thank you for that clarification. Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes, I'm just asking for Mr. Hustace to further explain because I don't understand what he's referring to when he deals with that notch. I mean you had a lot of words to say, but I'm trying to filter out how it effects this particular notch. HUSTACE: I'm sorry, you're looking for clarification on how to maybe alleviate that problem? Is that right? LOPEZ: No, I don't see the problem. 8 HUSTACE: Oh. LOPEZ: I'm trying to filter what the problem is. HUSTACE: My best guess would be to put those three census blocks into Council 1 then. LOPEZ: But what is the issue with that, the way it's drawn? That's the point I'm trying to understand. HUSTACE: Yeah, that's what I'm trying to grasp at too, and make sure I understand as well, that because you're traveling out of one district, into another, and back into the one you just came from. That was my understanding from Ms. Ford's testimony. LOPEZ: And where is that on this map? HUSTACE: So, say if you're in Waimea, and you travel up north on Kohala Mountain Road. So,just left of the cursor, you see where the roadI don't know, can you tell where the road is there? So,just left of the cursor. Where it says right there, is that's the road on that boundary line. LOPEZ: Right above—right above that— HUSTACE: hatHUSTACE: Just the left of the green cursor. LOPEZ: Yes, right there? That really? HUSTACE: So, those the pink area there, right? Which is Council District 1 on your map. LOPEZ: Yes. HUSTACE: Is on the eastern side of Kohala Mountain Road. But there are three census blocks that kind ofso, as you're traveling along Kohala Mountain Road, Highway 250 there, you kind of leave District 1, go into District 9, and go back into District 1. So once you go into Kohala Mountain Road. LOPEZ: Okay, I'll take it offline, because I don't see. You're familiar with the road names and with the designations and I'm not. I just see roads. Okay. We can take that offline. So, if there is a violation in this map, I don't see it. Subsequent comments, it's about how people relate in one district versus another district, which is something we have to consider. But given the constraints we're working with, we may or may not be able to accept those kinds of inputs. So, it's a matter of redistricting or spreading the population to fit the restrictions that we're working with. I haven't heard anything that says, this won't work per law, per violation. So, thank you for your feedback. Personally, I just haven't seen it, in what I'm hearing. So, thank you. 9 YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne. I have a question for James. If you were to include those areas, you're talking about in District 1, what would be the population changes, or do you know? Thank you. HUSTACE: Thank you, Commissioner Yoshina. I'm not sure off the top of my head. I can look quickly. It looks like those three census blocks have zero population in them, so it could be an easy switch and fix, to answer your question. YOSHINA: Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Yes, thank you, Chair Kossow. I originally liked you're map, Commissioner Lopez, because it was trying to make as little change as possible. I have since changed my view though. I think partly hearing from some of the folks, like along the Wailuku River. So, I guess at this point, I do not like the fact that, as it stands now, both Hilo and Waimea have parts of those places within District 1. I don't think that's a great idea. And also, I think in your current map, District 1 goes all the way to Kapa`au, which relates much more to Hawi. So, I guess at this point, in terms of just District 1, I think I like James' District 9 map the best and would still think that we should use that and the original too, that we chose, to work off of. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Any other discussion? (No response.) Alright, we'll go ahead andstaff, if you can go ahead and open up Mr. Hustace's. Is it labeled "2_111221"? Did you make that name up? Okay. I was going to say, that's a lot of maps! HUSTACE: Chair, if I may,just some clarification for the Commissioners. KOSSOW: Yeah, Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I was approached by the Elections Office to help with the public website. Where we see—where the public can easily, rather than logging in to the Reapportionment Commission and the mapping software, but rather see the end product of the maps. So, I'm trying to work with them and the GIS team at the County to make it a little bit clearer on that. Right now, there are one from the public, and there are about 15 from the Commissioners. Somewhere around that number, correct? Something like that. At our last meeting, we selected to work, going forward, on two maps, right? On Chair Kossow's map, number 12, and then one of mines, which was titled Number 9. We are trying to make sure that they are labeled appropriately. So, they should be labeled, like Working Draft 1, and Working Draft 2. We wanted to make sure that was clear on the website. Following that, hopefully, my proposal was to have folders on the public software application map. That would have those two maps in distinct folders, and any subsequent iterations would be within those folders. All the other maps should still remain up there, but maybe in another folder called Additional Maps To Be Considered. Just for clarify sake. `Cause right now, if you log on the public site, it just shows them basically, on when they were submitted, or I think maybe actually, alphabetically after 10 the current map. So,just trying to help with that process there as best as I can. Thank you, Chair, for letting me say a few words about that. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Staff, if you can go ahead and open up, it's Working Group Doc 2, right? I noticed you have Draft 11 up, on there. Was that your question, Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. I'll give everybody a minute. KA`AHANUI-HOYOHOY: Can you repeat which one you want open? KOSSOW: It's called 11-12-2021 Meeting Hawaii County Working Group Doc 2. (Chair Kossow proceeded to direct staffprojecting the map onto the screen.) BATH: Chair? Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: (Indiscernible; audio cutting in and out.) I really like the idea of having files or folders of the drafts that we're working on. I think that that really achieves a goal of helping the public to not be too schized out with all these maps. If they know the (indiscernible) that we're looking at. Thank you for doing that. I yield. LUL I just have a question. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Is this the same as James Number 9 from before? KOSSOW: This is the Number 9 one. Yes. LUL Okay, great. Thanks. Would you like me to start with the comments? KOSSOW: Is everybody ready for that? (No response.) I'm going to assume, yes. So, Ms. Lui, go ahead. LUL Okay. In terms of Council 1, which is the only one I know well, I really like what James has done here. He does move the southern boundary as I had hoped, up to the Honoli`i Stream. And that deals with the sort of the identication of some of the folks in south Hilo, closer to Hilo town, with Hilo town. It then allows only two districts within Hilo, as opposed to three. So, I really like that. I also was, when I was tinkering in this in my map, trying to capture Waimea. Which he did. So, I really like that as well. And then, on the western boundary, by moving it all the way to the Saddle Road, which is, there's not a lot of population there. There's one small pocket of population, which is Waiki`i. 11 But that is pretty isolated anyway. I think it was in District 2, in the former map. But it is mostly kind of ranchland, which is very similar to the agricultural concerns of Council 1. So overall, I really liked the way that he drew Council 1. Thanks. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Lui, for your support on that. It was a challenge to find some breaking lines in the Waimea area. This map, I offered up at our last meeting, to be considered because of our lengthy discussion about the Hilo boundary. We've had discussion back and forth about Wailuku, the Wailuku Stream and River there. This one, as you mentioned, pushes that boundary up to the Honoli`i Stream. In other iterations, I've tried to find another different breaking line, but it wasn't as easy. So, this one, based upon our conversation, I offered this one up. I haven't gotten a lot of feedback from people in north Hawaii about this map in particular, where it breaks Waimea. So I am a little nervous about that. When I'm having this conversation with community members and neighbors, and I talk about the process, and how challenging it can be, how sometimes there's this domino effect. You move the boundaries, and it just ripples across the other districts, and you have to shift them all over the place. One of the primeI actually give two examples. I think Commissioner Akamu's district is one of those as well, District 6. But District 1 in particular, is kind of lodged between Hilo and Waimea. The conversation is, do we push Council District 1 further into Hilo, further into Waimea, or a little bit of both? And so, based upon our conversation previously, this one shifts it more towards the Waimea direction. And it does take a bit of Waimea. I mean, right now, Council District 1, if you looked at the current map takes just a very slim edge of Waimea. And that may speak to, you know, diluting representation in that area. So, this gives maybe some of those people in that area, a little bit more representation, or a valid or valued representation. I'm still amenable to some of the changes up along Kohala Mountain Road in the Waimea area. However, there's a census block that is atrocious in that area. But a lot of that is because it's rural. It still shows some population in there, but that was a major part of the issue I've had in trying to find a clear breaking line above Waimea town. I wanted to keep north Hawaii of the island, Haw! and Kapa`au, together. They kind of have similar voting issues, so I wanted to make sure that that was kept together. Some other thoughts on this, there are some weird census blocks that we need to talk about. We need to break some of these census blocks basically, that are out in the ocean. No one lives out there so it's not a problem of course, but for map purposes, those census blocks need to be broken. As you can see, that yellow arm that sneaks up the coast there. I also took into consideration, this was the purpose of categorizing and keeping the maps that are built off of each other, together on the public website. Because after I presented this map, and we discussed a little bit about these things at our last meeting, I did work on another map based off of this one. And it is labeled 9.1, and we can visit that at some point, when the Chair allows. But it takes into consideration some of the concerns that we're seeing from this map, and past discussions about Puna, and also Alii Drive. So, 9.11 think captures some of those other ideas and made some other shifts to 9 itself. This Working Draft 2, that is. Thank you, Chair. I yield. 12 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. I would just like to also comment to, I kind of remember discussion last week. After talking to some people, I think you have currently, Pohakuloa Training Area in Council 8, and agree with Mr. Yoshina, it should probably end up going to a Hilo district. Just because of the connectivity to Pohakuloa from that side. And then, as for, I now see what you're trying to do for Council District 9 to 8. It obviously is a little bit difficult with this census block and trying to go around it. But I do know that this is the north side of Kaiminani. I believe that's an existing road. Is that right, Mr. Lopez? This right here. This is right above Palisades, or north of Palisades. LOPEZ: And you're asking me what? KOSSOW: Is this a existing road? LOPEZ: No, I don't believe so. KOSSOW: It's just a census block. LOPEZ: Yeah. KOSSOW: Okay. Okay, well. I understand what you're trying to accomplish there. And then down there in the southern portion of Council 7, and you know, we heard some testimony from people of south Kona saying that they really belonged in central Kona. This kind of is a middle ground for that, so I appreciate that. Any other discussion for Mr. Hustace's Working Group Doc 2? BATH: Yeah, Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, and then we'll go to Mr. Yoshina. BATH: Thank you. Can we please scroll into Puna? Can we (indiscernible) the data numbers off the screen for a moment? The bottom part where it shows the numbers and the deviations and things. If we can remove that for a minute. LUL It's removed. BATH: It's removed? Okay, I'm seeing it on my screen. Okay, that's great what you just did. So, now can you scroll so that the northern area of District 5 is showing? Thank you. Okay, and then move it over, that's District 4. (At this time, Commissioner Bath proceeded to direct staffprojecting the map onto the screen to view different area of Puna.) Is Pahoa town split in your plan? LUL Looks like it. HUSTACE: The line follows the Pahoa Bypass Road there. 13 BATH: Okay. So one of the things that I don't like that I said with the other plan, is that this plan is putting District 5 more into District 4. District 5 doesn't really belong in lower Puna. I want to emphasize again that the people that are living in that area, they polarized towards being in lower Puna, being in District 4. The children attend, some of the children that you have in District 4, and the children in District 5, will be attending the same school, which is okay. I'm just seeing that, it's just if you scroll down, having that whole area where the lava flow went, that's in lower Puna,put into upper Puna where there's really little or no connectivity, other than Highway 130, is problematic for me. And I think it will be for the public as well. It's really important for me to represent Council 5, and to some degree in this case, Council 4, to make sure that their interests are being met. This is kind of butchering Puna up. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Yeah, Chair Kossow. I want to echo what Commissioner Lui mentioned about her comments on Hamakua and Hilo. I also want to echo your comment about P6hakuloa going into, coming back to east side. I would guess that you would connect it up to Council 3. Is that correct? KOSSOW: Yeah, that's correct. YOSHINA: Okay. And just as a point of information here, if you wanted to give District 1 a little bit more population, perhaps you could consider moving the Honoli`i line back to the Wainaku River, I think it's called. Right outside, right north of the Dodo Mortuary area is a river. I don't know if you can see that. But that would separate `Amauulu and that area, back into Hilo. And it'll keep the Pi`ihonua community together. The other concern I have, and I don't know how we approach this, would be to maintain the integrity of Council District 6 by moving the lines more into Kona. Historically, traditionally, Ka`u was Ka`u. And I understand the point about the population base but, at some point by moving that Council District 6 line into Kona, you're going to dilute the communities: Wai`6hinu and N5'51ehu and Pahala. So, if there is some way of maintaining the integrity of the Ka`u district, the historical integrity of that district, I would be in favor of that. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Any other discussion? BATH: Commissioner Bath. I agree with Dwayne on that one, for sure. The Ka`u. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. I'm sorry, Ms. Bath, go ahead. BATH: No, I yielded. Thank you. KOSSOW: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: The challenge forSo, in the current map we have, both District 1 and District 6 are well under that standard deviation there, six below. So, they have to take 14 population from the two population centers on the island. So, like I said, either Council 1 has to move, take more of Waimea, or more of Hilo, or a little bit of both. It's the same for Council 6. It has to take more of Kona, or more of the Volcano, closer to Hilo side, or a little bit of both. We have to give and take here a little bit. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Any other discussion? LUL This is Commissioner Lui. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just wondered what Commissioner Akamu had to say about that. Because he talked last time about Ka`u as well. In terms of which way to split 6. Thanks. AKAMU: Yeah, this is Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: What I don't like about this map is, I think it includes too much of Mountain View and Eden Roc and all of those areas into Ka`u. I know that's not what the people in those communities want. So, I would support pushing more into south Kona, rather than pushing more into Glenwood and up into Eden Roc, all the way up into Fern Acres. I think that's just a little too far. Also, when I think about Ka`u, traditionally, as Commissioner Yoshina has said, Ka`u is more connected to south Kona. The kupuna would call the area Kona-Ka`u. Also, when you look at the traditional boundaries of Ka`u, it stretches from Volcano. So, above Volcano is the Keauhou Forest, above the Volcano Golf Course. That Keauhou Forest is the same Keauhou that's in south Kona, where the shopping center is. So the traditional boundary goes all the way from Volcano side on the east end, all the way up right over Mauna Loa down to Keauhou on the Kona side. So, Kona is connected to that area traditionally. It was one water shed owned by, or traditionally cared for, by one ali`i. So traditionally, I think pushing it to Kona does maintain a long traditional and ancestrial connection between the two places. So, that's what I would support more. Additionally, I appreciate Commissioner Yoshina's comments. Because splitting Ka`u down the middle would disenfranchise the southern population. Because,just by the small number of people there, banding together is what allows the people there to have a voice through their vote. And traditionally, when we push further into Hilo or Kona, that's where our representatives would come from, rather than from the southern district. But looking everything in totality, there does need to be give and take between all of the districts. And so, I think if we can work towards pushing more into Kona to alleviate trying to take Eden Roc, Glenwood, into Ka`u. I think that would favorable. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Any other discussion? YOSHINA: Yeah, this is Dwayne again. 15 KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I just want to voice my appreciation for that edification. Thanks. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Any further discussion? Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thanks, Chair. We may have to throw out this map altogether then,just to be clear with you. And as you mentioned earlier, there's this domino effect, there's this ripple. So, this map was selected because of its Honoli`i boundary. So, as soon as I moved Hilo up that direction, the Hilo district further in Hamakua, Hamakua shifts counterclockwise. Council District 9 shifts counterclockwise. So, they all shifting down, shifting down counterclockwise. That would push Council 6 into Hilo then. It's just moving everything in a counterclockwise thing, fashion. So, it's this ripple effect. So if we are set on particular boundaries, then we have to acknowledge these other shifts that going to happen. Because Council 1 is pushing into half of Waimea. So that's what happens when you set the boundary at Honoli`i. No one—we aren't all going to be happy on these things and there are going be some shifts and changes here. I understand and I want to represent the people as best as possible for different districts. Though if we set these boundaries, then it's going to have this ripple effect across the whole island. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Any other discussion? LUL Stephanie and I both have our hands up. KOSSOW: Is that Ms. Lui? LUL Yeah, thank you. I don't know if you're able to see my hand raised in the little box on the Zoom screen. Well, I guess I wanted to say that I feel like what we should look at is the total deviations. I think that if some districts have to have a greater deviation, that might be okay. I feel like in terms of representation, I don't know, this may be heretical that the exact numbers are less important than the communities of interest. So, I would just encourage us to think that way, rather than to make the main goal getting the deviation in each district down to the lowest amount. Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah. You know, after the last meeting, I left feeling like we had accomplished a lot and that we were moving forward. And my impression, not that I'm saying that we shouldn't look at other options or other possibilities, but my hope for this meeting was to pick up where we left off the last meeting with that map that we were working on, and then go ahead. `Cause it seemed like we still needed to do some tweaking and moving in Kona. My hope was that we kind of paste it in temporarily in a draft form of what we had achieved in the last meeting. And then gathering opinions and build upon that, rather than redoing what we already came to an agreement with at the last meeting. I don't know if that's doable. I yield. 16 KOSSOW: Commissioner Bath, if I can just give some clarification to that. In the last meeting, we did work on the draft that we all worked on, and then we also added this map onto it. So, that way we can have two actively working drafts, instead of just one. So, for clarification purposes, that was what we decided in the last meeting. Is there any other discussion? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I have to strongly agree with comments made by Commissioner Hustace here. If you start shifting, as some of the comments made, then the whole thing gets thrown off. Again, the domino effect. The census blocks adjoining some of these, majority of these districts, are so large that a slight change just throws everything out of whack. It's important that we listen to the feelings of the community and where people are most comfortable with relationships. But we can't ignore the deviations because that's the legal basis by which we have to operate. So, there's going to be some give and take. From my observation of this map and testimonies, comments rather, that have been given here, this is a very workable map without totally throwing it out and starting with another version. So, I support Mr. Hustace's comments. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Any further discussion? Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I was wondering if we could bring up the iteration I made after this draft. If that's alright, Chair. If it's allowable. KOSSOW: This is 9.1? HUSTACE: That's correct. KOSSOW: Staff, is that available? (No audible response heard; Staffprojected map 9.1 onto the screen.) HUSTACE: And Chair if I may discuss this a little bit? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you. So as I mentioned, in hopes of creating different working drafts, following the first one, like different iterations, I submitted this one here. Taking into consideration the request made for the eastern portion of the island, in the Puna area. As well as, parts of the western side, of particular with Alii Drive. So, if we could start with the Puna area. This is Working Draft 2. This is basically,just manipulating the boundary lines between Council 4 and 5. There were no other changes, so if we just focus on this area. There were no other changes regarding the boundary lines between 6, 3, and 2 nearby. But 4 and 5 just did a switch here. So, Council 5 sweeps all, mostly on the coastal 17 portion, and all the way down Highway 130, out to Kalapana and Kapoho. So, I believe Commissioner Bath, this was your request to keep those communities together. So Council 5 here, it's more of a makai portion here district. Whereas Council 4, you know, is Mountain View, Kurtistown, Kea`au, and then cuts into Hilo a little bit. Hawaiian Paradise Park is split here. I did have to make that sacrifice here for the numbers. There were just too many numbers,population count, in that area. So, I had to split it between 4 and 5. I think, Commissioner Bath, this is what you aiming for, and some of the things we worked on, on the last meeting on a separate map. In trying to keep some of these communities together here. And then, I'll definitely welcome some comments on that. If we could switch over to the other side of the island on the screen. And look at, what I believe Chair Kossow was requesting of a map like this, is to include Alii Drive into one of the districts, and not split between two districts. So, if you zoom in, at the coast there, between Council 7 and 8. I think I got most of your language here, Chair. About putting Alii Drive into Council 7. So, everything mauka of the Belt Road is in Council 8, to a certain point. And then, everything makai is in Council 7. So, Alii Drive's all in Council 7, as I believe was your request. Other than that, after our last meeting, those are the comments that I heard, and I took note of. And so I went back to this map in particular and made those changes. Thank you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to echo that I support Commissioner Lui's comments earlier. I do think that we can possibly look at using the deviation to try balance some of these numbers. Because across all of the maps here, trying to get the lowest deviation possible. That might also allow us to keep some of the communities of interest together, etcetera. And I know that ten percent is the maximum deviation, and if we do deviate anymore, we would have to justify. But perhaps, looking at the areas that are more high growth, versus the areas that are low growth. I could see, for example, District 6 being lower, and District 4 or 5 being higher. Or similarly in other parts of the island. That might help keep certain communities together, rather than trying to get the closest to zero in every single district. So, I do support what Commissioner Lui shared. I also don't think we need to—I don't think any of the maps are perfect. So, I do share Commissioner Bath's sentiment that, after we have this discussion, I do look forward at looking at those two working drafts and really then doing the nitty gritty work of moving. Dealing with the domino effects and really trying to come up with something that's workable and agreeable to everybody. And hopefully we can protect the communities that we are appointed to represent. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Alright. Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Unfortunately, I couldn't be here at the last meeting. But I am curious about the statement that not to split Alii Drive between two districts. I'm asking for the rationale. I mean it's nice and clean, the way it is now on this map. But what was the rationale for not wanting Alii Drive split across two districts? What's the overriding factor there? HUSTACE: He's asking you, Chair. 18 LOPEZ: That was your request, right? KOSSOW: Sorry, go ahead and repeat that. LOPEZ: At least that's what I heard. KOSSOW: Oh, the Alii Drive portion? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. I didn't catch your question. LOPEZ: Okay. KOSSOW: What was the rationale behind that? As far as I know, if we keep all of Alii Drive sort of together, it is part of central Kona, or Kona proper. Actually, central Kona goes all the way to Kainaliu. That's all, technically, a part of central. And then when you go to the new Alii Bypass, which is mauka of Hokuli`a, that Alii Drive connects all the way into there. And there's some future road developments in the lower portion as soon as you get into the Keauhou area. That's going to eventually bring in a new road access throughout that side. So, my goal was just to keep one huge County road inside one district. LOPEZ: Okay. I understand your rationale. I would offer a differing opinion, that those two ends of Alii Drive are extremely oppostie ends of the development spectrum. We got one that's town, and highly populated, a lot of business. And then you got the other end that goes off into presently nowhere. So, what happens there is a shift of District 8 away from the traditional, if you will, business and governmental sector of the district. And brings in a district that has a much more diverse aspect to it, between agricultural or remote, versus highly concentrated urban. Two different perspectives. So, that's my input to this. I understand where you're coming from and on the surface of it, I wouldn't disagree. But having lived here for as long as I have, it's like trying to bring together two very different perspectives. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. I think the other part to it is one that you know, connectivity. We talked about connectivity a lot today. When it comes to the roadways. And then historically too, if you want to, we talked about traditional districts. I know that Council District 8, obviously historically, runs through the northern part of Kona. But it does get a little bit difficult because when we talk about traditional,parts of Miloli`i was part of the most southern part of Kona, in the traditional sense. In this case, because of population growth, I think it would be best if we just split up Kona proper, north Kona, south Kona, into Ka`u. And this is the product that we have. I think my rationale behind it was just to ensure that we have that representative that knows the district, but also has a feel for both business and agriculture as well. `Cause District 8 does have business and agriculture, sun farms, and solar farms, and what not. So yeah, every district is going to 19 have a form of diversity in that aspect. But thank you for your comments, Mr. Lopez. Is there any other discussion? YOSHINA: Yeah, Chair Kossow. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I can agree with this map. I would like to see P6hakuloa joined into Council 3, I think. Because that I believe that Council 3 includes the Keaukaha Military Reserve. And I also would like to see that connectivity up in the Kohala district that Commissioner Hustace talked about, included in a map. Those are my comments. Oh, the other thing is, if there is a need to add a little bit more population to District 1 then, I'd suggest you move the boundary from Honoli`i back down to Wainaku, the Wainaku River area. That's just a small adjustment, I think. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Any other discussion regarding 9.1? Ms. Lui. LUL Just on that point, Mr. Yoshina, I don't think at this point in this map Council District 1 does not need more population. It's actually deviation 1.18 above what it needs. I'm not sure it would make a lot of difference. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. BATH: Chair? Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah. Can we scroll back down into Puna again? Can we focus in on the area where Districts 5, 4, and 6 are, please? And zoom in a little bit,please? (Commissioner Bath proceeded to direct staffprojecting the map onto the screen.) So, my comments here—Can you zoom out? Is the orange area District 4? HUSTACE: Yes. BATH: Okay. So it looks like you've done a swap with you've put District 5 into lower Puna, and turned District 4 into upper Puna. Can you please zoom into the Ka`u section of this map? The northeastern part of Ka`u, please. (Commissioner Bath proceeded to direct staffprojecting the map onto the screen.) Basically, what's happened is Puna's been butchered. It's been swapped out and it's been butchered. The people of—let's see it looks like you've got Fern Forest, Eden Roc you've got all of those which are significant parts of District 5, and you've put them into—Basically you've turned a lot District 5 into Ka`u. And then you've turned the rest of it into lower Puna mostly. I don't see anything that resembles District 5, as I look at the current District 5. District 5 has been split up between District 6, District 4, and then District 5. This is not acceptable. I'm so sorry, but it's just not acceptable. It's just totally butchered Puna. I yield. 20 KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other discussion? HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you. We can definitely shift the numbers between, on this one, between 4 and 6. To try to get Eden Roc, Glenwood, Fern Forest back into that District 4. Let's see, the BATH: If I just may say, you're not putting them back into District 4. You're putting them into District 5 where they belong. What you've done is you've taken you've kind of swapped HUSTACE: Commissioner. Commissioner, the numbers are the numbers. Like, it doesn't matter what is Council 4 or 5. We can talk about that another time. At our last meeting, you talked about keeping Kapoho and all the coastal districts, Kaimu in one district, right? So, I tried to do that here. They are in District 5 in this case. Just to get Hawaiian Beaches, Leilani Estates, all the way to Kalapana and Kapoho all in one. That's what we were talking about, right? BATH: Right. I see. So, what you've done is you've just changed the district numbers. You've just changed their names actually, is what you've done yeah? HUSTACE: Yeah. So, District 4 is more of the Hawaiian Acres area. The number is just the number of how their numbered based upon where you originate it from. Council 5 is that sweeping part along part of Hawaiian Paradise Park, Kapoho, Pahoa, Leilani Estates, and Kalapana, all the way to the edge of the Park. I tried to keep that all together as you requested. BATH: Understood. That's good enough. HUSTACE: The Council 4 and 6, we can try and move those numbers back and forth to find a place where we're more comfortable between 6 and 4. Just in this case that's just Council 4. Don't think about the district number as that's the district you live in right now. That's just a number of district. So, does that make sense? BATH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. HUSTACE: I'd be happy to switch between 4 and 6. And try and move more of Eden Roc, Fern Forest, Glenwood into Council 4 in this case here. And then we could—you'll see the numbers move greatly against 6 here. In this iteration here, Council 4 is negative two under. So, we just need to keep that in mind. Thank you. BATH: This is Stephanie Bath. I appreciate what you've done. That was very consistent with what you're calling District 5. It might just be confusing to the public is what I'm 21 thinking. I'm open to what you're doing. I'm just wondering how we're going to be able to get the numbers right on District 4, if you're putting the Park and all of upper Puna into District 5. I think it's gonna just bring the numbers way up. But I'm open to learning and working with that. And I do like the fact that kept everything in lower Puna, as lower Puna. It was just that the swapping of the names is really confusing for the people that are living here. But thank you so much. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. We're going to do a five-minute recess. We'll convene back here at 10:56. Thank you. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Alright, calling meeting back to order. We're still on Draft 9.1, if I'm reading that correctly. Is there any further discussion regarding 9.1? (No response.) Alright. We're going to go ahead and move over to Bronsten Kossow Draft 12. I didn't see anything that said Working Draft Document. Staff, is that available? I know that we were planning on naming it that. (Pause.) I think that's the one. (Pause while staff worked on projecting the map onto the screen.) I don't know what the difference between Original and 12 is. So, I think we're just going to have to . Yeah, we'll just do that one. The only difference is based off of what I changed around. If you scroll down into between 5, 3, and 4, in HPP. The only difference, the change that I made, was the discussion with Ms. Bath, was to put these four census blocks into District 4. And then also include a few of the census blocks from Council District 3 into Council District 4. So, that's the only difference from this map that's currently up. I'll open it up for discussion. (No response.) I did also add P6hakuloa Training Area, or PTA, into KMR. So, it's going to be in Council District 3, if you want to scroll up there. I know that Mr. Yoshina talked a little bit about that as well. LUL I can start, Commissioner Kossow. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Yeah,just quickly. I see that you put the southern boundary back at the Wainaku River. I think you had it at Waianuenue before. I do so prefer to have it a little bit farther up to get away from the people who do identify as Hilo. I think with the splitting up of Waimea, I had the same issues that you and everybody else has had with trying to decide how much of Waimea to put in 1 versus 9. But I really have to yield to Commissioner Hustace on that, who knows that community better than I do. So, I don't have a lot of comments. I see you've taken more of it in order to add population. Which when I was working on it, I had to do that too. But, yeah, I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Any other discussion? Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: As a discussion, are we prepared to go over to west Hawaii? KOSSOW: Absolutely. 22 LOPEZ: Yeah, okay. I see in this map version that the historic and traditional District 8 has been decimated and garnered off into more just residential area. And we're talking about where people identify, where people congregate, where people feel good about where they're associated. We've lost that in this map. The whole downtown area, the mauka and makai areas surround Kailua-Kona, and down as far as the end of Alii Drive, has just totally been decimated. So, to me this is not workable for the people that are in that proper area. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Any other discussion? BATH: Bath here. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Commissioner Lopez, what would you suggest might remedy that, your concerns for the map? I yield. LOPEZ: Yes, thank you for that question. I would fall back on Mr. Hustace's. The one that you folks picked as the Document 2; I believe. That was a much more workable. It did not infringe on the length of Alii Drive as going off into the southern part, where there's future development. Which I think future commissions can deal with that portion. And it would keep the integrity of Kailua town which has been the hub of District 8 for certainly as long as I've been here, over 25 years. So, this just changes the character. Actually, you're asking me well how to fix it. And I would default back to Mr. Hustace's Document 2 version. Which keeps the integrity of the urban hub, urban loosely defined here, as the integrity of District 8. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez, for clarification, is that Mr. Hustace's 9.1 or the 9.0 map? LOPEZ: There was the one labeled Doc 2. I believe that you wrote it on at the last meeting. I think that's 9.0. KOSSOW: 9.0. Okay, alright. LOPEZ: I believe. Thank you. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I like that Pohakuloa is back in District 3. And I'll go along with what Commissioner Lui pointed out. The District 2 boundary. We can tweak that one back to Honoli`i. That's fine, I think. Although, that would put our deviation way higher, I think. Thank you. 23 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Oh, one more point that I haven't been able to KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: You know that area in Waimea-Kohala? Where that road there's that you have to leave a district to get into the district again, I'd make that correction up there. Thank you. LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just wanted to ask a question of Lehuanani. In all of these maps, you know, there are various Hawaiian Homeland communities. I'm wondering just how she's feeling about any issues around consolidation of representation for Native Hawaiian communities. AH NEE: Aloha. Permission to speak. KOSSOW: Go ahead. AH NEE: Mahalo, Commissioner Lui. I appreciate it. I am still learning, very new to this process. Trying to run these numbers also as we're speaking. So, forgive me for my silence. I am just trying to make sure that I speak with knowledge of what I can garner since my inception here into this Commission. I agree with everyone else. There's not no one perfect map. I do want to say that I think where this particular map, that we're currently looking at, and I believe this is 9—forgive me if I'm wrong on how to read this properly but—this particular map that's up on the screen, as probably one that has caught my attention more than any other so far. Being a part of Council District 3, I didn't want to split Keaukaha and Pana`ewa. Specifically because of that you have these families that within those districts that vote together. And I think that comes out later. I know that this Commission is very—it's only in every ten years so I appreciate that. But looking at where Waimea and that split on the north end on the island. I think having that discussion and just listening to everybody has helped me try to understand where these things fit or don't fit. And so I can see where there would be a bit of an issue on splitting Waimea in half. I, myself, don't agree necessarily with it splitting in half either. But I do understand that these numbers here on the bottom part of the screen, does determine where and when we can fudge a little to the positive or fudge a little to the negative. I think this map, out of all the maps we've covered today, has probably the best lines drawn. If that makes any sense. But I do want to say that I agree with Commissioner Akamu in Ka`u, with the relationships between the families going into south Kona. And that whole distinction of Keauhou mauka in Volcano, is very much related to Keauhou on the west side. It is its own kind of distinct pattern, traditionally and then also with natural markings, and natural boundaries. So, I do definitely agree with that. I also do agree that maybe Eden Roc, as 24 well as upper Mountain View, would lean more to Council 5, than it would to Council 6. Just in mere totality of not going in and out of a district to get to another district with those. I'm still trying to find my way around the rules. And so, forgive me for having to speed up my catch up. But as far as, I think everything that has been shared, this is probably the map that would be most fitting. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ah Nee. Any other discussion? LUL I wondered if you could zoom in to look at the Keaukaha-Pana`ewa area there. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you. So, I think, Ms. Lui, the Pana`ewaSo, with this map here, Working Draft 1, also titled Draft 12 here, Pana`ewa, Keaukaha, and even the Waiakea Homelands are all kind of in the they're in the same, in the same seat here. So, Bronsten did a good job of keeping them here together. The one that I do have concern is actually in the Waimea area where—It's only a portion of it, but it is splitting the Pu`u Kapu Homelands along Mana Road. So there is a split there, and I just don't want to dilute that vote either. It's a weird—so if you zoom up, go up a little bit more. Let's see if I can try and walk you through this here. (Vice Chair Hustace continued to guide staff projecting the map onto the screen.) So, this kind of grayer area here, that's marked as Pu`u Kapu. But it even includes that reservoir up there. Which pushes into a community called Lakeland and out towards Vacationland. There even is a community off of Kipu`upu`u Street there, right at the top of that reservoir. So, it's hard—This is a hard community because we solve our maps, split it at Mealani Road, which is part of that. It also cuts into Pu`u Kapu. So just trying to be cognizant of that too. I mean Mana is a good breakline line for If it wasn't down the middle of a Homeland, it'd be a good breaking line. But it does cut off that community and breaks that community there. So, I struggled to do that, as the Chair did as well with these maps. It's a clear line that wraps around Mauna Kea, but I don't know if it's the best one. I look forward to hearing from those community members about that as well. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. I know that one is a super tough one. I have an aunt that lives in Kamoku, in the Hawaiian Homelands there. And, you know, that's also been in Council 1, but she calls herself a Waimea resident. Any other discussion? BATH: Yeah. Commissioner Hustace KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah. I really like that on this version, Commissioner Lopez's area looks good. I really like that P6hakuloa is in District 3. I think that if that line for Hamakua and Hilo gets corrected, that'll work. I was looking at the numbers on the deviations, and I'm thinking maybe we could just do something with District 7, and District 6, to give them a 25 little bit more representation there. The deviation is, what 4.83 for Ka`u. I didn't know if there was any way we could give them a little bit more of Council 7. And then also if you could zoom up to the Volcano area? KA`AHANUI-HOYOHOY: Can you repeat that? What area did you want me to zoom in to? HUSTACE: Commissioner Bath, that question is for you. BATH: Thank you. Sorry. The District 6-District 5 junction, by Volcano. If you could just zoom in there. And then go a little to Ka`u. I wanted to see the top of District 5 in alignment withI'm sorry. The south part of District 5 in alignment with the Ka`u district, please. Okay, I think that that's workable as well. Can I just see the northern part of District 5, please? (Pause.) Yeah, for now, for purposes of discussion, I think it looks good. Other than the deviations that maybe we can tweak. But this is looking good, this map. I don't know about the Waimea area. I don't know enough about that split. But there's a little bit of a concern there. But I think we can probably work that out. I yield. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? BATH: Oh,just one more thing. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Can we see the northern part of District 5? Just scroll down a little bit. I just want to double check one thing on that,please. And then zoom in on that green. And then scroll down so that we can see the Kea`au area a little bit. (Pause.) I'm sorry. I'm just not able to bring my map up. And then if you can go to Kurtistown. I just wanted to check out the Kurtistown area, specifically to the left of Highway 11. I think that's the North Road area. If you can zoom in there. (Pause.) Okay, now go I'd like to see the above, the northern part,please. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that looks good. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other discussion? (No response.) Alright, I believe we have a testifier. Mr. Kauka, if you want to just allot one minute. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (part 3) KAUKA: Yes. Thank you, Chair. Ms. Matson, I know you're requesting to ask or make a comment. SHANNON MATSON MATSON: Yes, mahalo. This is Shannon Matson, again. Chair, I'm just wondering if you'd be willing to consider switching the colors. It's a pretty easy switch between Council 9, Council 8, and Council 7. Those colors are just so similar, and for those of us 26 with color blindness issues, it would just really help to differentiate, if you would please consider that. Mahalo. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (part 3) KOSSOW: Any other discussion regarding this draft? (No response.) Alright. So, I just kind of want to summarize. So that way when I work on this, I can make the correct decisions on redrawing this map. Also, we could do the redrawing now if we would want to. But for Council District 4, we want to include the four census blocks from Council District 5 inside that part of HPP. And then have it go four or five census blocks down to make sure that the deviation is correct. We're going to have to make a hard decision on Pu`u Kapu, between District 1 and District 9. I hope that maybe in theIs it the December 19th meeting? 14'h meeting?—We can discuss with some of the community members there. Council District 2, try to get it up to Honoli`i or Wainaku. And then between Council 8 and Council 7, to include 8 into some portion of Kona proper, down to at least the University of the Nations area, and Hualalai Road. And then that would also allow Council District 6 to move a little bit more north into Council District 7. Council District 3 seems to be good and proper. Probably got to change up the lines in P6hakuloa Area,just to expand it a little bit more. Other than that, is there—Did I miss anything? Two large fries and a shake? LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I don't know if this is fair to ask, but I think there were pros and cons both in this map and in James' map, the two that we were looking at. I wonder, would it be possible for the two of you to work together and come up with one new draft map for us to consider at the next meeting? That would really move us ahead. Rather than you both working on your own maps. I don't know if that's allowable. KOSSOW: Are you willing to do that? HUSTACE: I'm agreeable to that. I still think we should be presenting the public a couple options though. KOSSOW: I agree. HUSTACE: So that they can see kind of the different directions the Commission's going in. I agree with you, Commissioner Lui, about coming together and figuring out one map. I really appreciate that, and I want to do that. But I also want to present the community an option to look at some different things as well. Thank you. LUL Thank you. That does make sense. I agree with that as well. However, I don't know if we're still trying to get done. Actually,just looking at our time frame, we're really 27 tight. So, if we have two maps and then the community comments, then we only have like two weeks to pull it all together so. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Sort of going along with that idea, is there a way to impose one map on another map? Just to see where the differences are. And then perhaps making the adjustments at those difference points. KOSSOW: From my understanding, Mr. Yoshina, I don't believe so. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. KOSSOW: Do we have any other discussion? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I think given—To answer Mr. Yoshina's question, it could be possible. We'd have to ask Mr. Jones to do some more tech stuff on the map software though. Just like how we are allowed to—One of the layers you can see, you can see the boundary lines. So, if I'm looking at the Chair's map, Working Draft Number 1, I can turn on one of the layers that looks at the current Council map. So it kind of is superimposed that way. I think we just have to ask more of Mr. Jones to do that. If we wanted to create these additional layers of the two working draft maps. I don't know if we're there, at a moment where we're comfortable with both of them to be. The current situation they are, I don't think we're that comfortable, still kind of working some kinks out. Thanks. YOSHINA: Yeah. It seems to me that we are almost in agreement. There's just some small tweaks to bring both maps into congruence. So, if the idea is to create two maps to present to the general public, that's okay with me. But I would think that we're almost to the point where we're in agreement on the maps. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Good summary comments. Thank you, Chair, first for that summarization you did of what the differences might be. I like Ms. Lui's recommendation. Although, I agree that we can't just produce one map. We got to have others. So, here's a what if. We have two maps on the table that you folks agreed were a good starting point to begin the final deliberations. And then we had some agreement today for the two, you gentlemen, the Chair and Vice Chair to work together to bring all this together, all the comments, produce a third map. So maybe, how about those are the three maps that we present to the public? So, in effect, we have it. Just an idea. Thank you. 28 KOSSOW: I think I like that idea. I think we would have to look at—'cause we did vote on two working drafts. My concern would be just to adding another one. Versus just changing the one that we already have, and the deviations, and what not, to fine tune it a little bit more. It might be more of a procedural to add a third working map. But we haven't really identified what that would look like. So, I think that would be the issue with that. But it's a good idea with regards to adding more public input into, more options, I guess. Yeah. LUL Commissioner Kossow. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Well, we do have one more meeting before the public meetings. We could take a look at a version 3 that combines the wonderful thinking of the two of you and approve a third one to present to the public. Which occurs one the following week, and one the week after. The other option is if we present the two, and then have a third one that we discuss on the second, kind of in our back pocket. Hoping that there won't be a lot of public comments that change our point of view dramatically. That that third one might actually be the solution. So, either present it as a third option or just kind of keep it as our own working draft. LOPEZ: Question. Would that then, the public would not be able to, would not see that map, back pocket one? Is that what you're saying? LUL Well, I'm just thinking, yeah, we could go either way. We could make the two that we're working on, their choice, the public ones. But we could have that third one that we're still sort of working on in the background. But I'm fine with having it ready to present to the public as well either way. MELLON-LACEY: Mr. Chair, if I may? LOPEZ: I would just think that the public would need to see whatever we're working on. That we're serious about at that point. Thank you. KOSSOW: Is that Ms. Mellon-Lacey? MELLON-LACEY: Yes. KOSSOW: Go ahead, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. MELLON-LACEY: So, the idea—Thank you, Mr. Chair. What is supposed to happen is, when we go to the final two public meetings, we are supposed to be presenting a—what you consider to be a finalized draft. Not two or three plans. It's one. And then you take input from the public on that plan, and you could come back and tweak it or make some adjustments to it. But it isn't to present two or three plans. It's one plan. 29 LUL Commissioner Kossow? Oh, I'm sorry. Stephanie. KOSSOW: Hold on one second. Ms. Mellon-Lacey, what part of the Code discuss that? Or the Charter? Excuse me. KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis. Ms. Mellon-Lacey is looking through her materials away from the desk. But, I'll also point out, it's in Hawaii County Charter Section 3-17, section (e). I'm sorry. Subsection (e). So, Charter Section 3-17 Subsection (e). And Ms. Mellon-Lacey is agreeing. She's making her way to the table. KOSSOW: Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Sorry, yes. I believe it's the Charter Section and I neglected to bring my Charter today. So, I do apologize. But that has been the thrust of the outline too for the—. That is the reason we had set December 9h as the date to arrive at a final plan. It's not—It's still in draft form, but you don't have the public hearings, the final two, until you have finalized your plan. And then it's a draft final. You would take the input from the public at that time, and you may change it, or you may amend it some. But the idea is it's close to finish. LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL And I think Stephanie's hand is raised as well. Just given that then, I go back to my original suggestion. For you and James to come up with a one plan that we can look at on the 9h. And hopefully be able to tweak well enough to present that one then to the public on the 14'h and 16''. KOSSOW: Okay. Sorry, did you yield? LUL I do. I don't know if I needed to make that in terms of a motion or whatever. But anyway, that's my suggestion. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Bath. BATH: Meizhu just spoke what I was going to say precisely, so I yield. YOSHINA: So, if that's a motion, I would second it. This is Dwayne. (Pause.) Okay, it's not a motion. So, if Meizhu would make it a motion. KOSSOW: Sorry, Mr. Yoshina. Yeah, you're correct. It wasn't a motion. But it can be made a motion. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. 30 LUL Well, if I can make a motion to force more work on the two of you. I don't know how appropriate that is. But my motion is that the Chair and Vice Chair work to bring together the two versions that we've been considering, the two alternate plans, and come up with one united plan that we can consider on the 9h. As the one that we would like to present to the public. KOSSOW: Alright, there's a motion on the table. Is there a second? YOSHINA: Second. KOSSOW: Any discussion? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I was unclear on what the response was from Corp Counsel on what Ms. Bath was saying about how the Charter reads. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey, are you still there? LOPEZ: What I'm asking is, does the Charter say we need one plan, one draft plan, for the public hearings? Or is it the discretion of the Chair? KOSSOW: I believe we need to have one finalized draft and that's the one that's going to be introduced to the public. And then that draft is going to be discussed in the public meetings, as well as being adjusted in the Commission. LOPEZ: Okay. Bottom line, we go to the public hearings with one draft plan. KOSSOW: Correct. LOPEZ: Okay, thank you. I didn't hear that. KOSSOW: Did I get that right, Ms. Mellon-Lacey? MELLON-LACEY: Yes, Chair. I now have a copy of the Charter. So, Section 3-17(e), it's: Upon completion of a draft redistricting plan (and it says a draft), the commission shall hold at least one public hearing in east Hawai`i and one in west Hawai`i. That's the source for this. KOSSOW: Thank you. Any other discussion regarding the motion? 31 HUSTACE: I will be voting no on this. I'm sorry. I think it's really on the entire Commission to put the map together. Thank you. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: It was my understanding that the Chair and Vice Chair were going to tweak that Kona area and present that to the Commission. Was that correct? KOSSOW: I'm not too sure. No. Are you talking about for this meeting right now? BATH: No. I understood that you folks were going to go together, and you were going to look at the map because there were some issues with kind of the west Hawaii, Kona side. And you guys were going to get together and tweak that. Is that correct? KOSSOW: I don't recall. HUSTACE: I took Chair's suggestions at our last meeting and made those edits to Working Draft 2. And that was to incorporate all of Alii Drive into Council 7. I think we've had some discussion back and forth, Mr. Lopez, about that. So, we need to kind of make up our minds and find that good breaking point in the Kona area. But that wasSo, at our last meeting, for clarity, I took Chair's suggestion and made a subsequent iteration of that draft. And so there, you can see between either the labeling's odd, but it's either 9 and 9.1 of the two versions or Working Draft 2 and 9.1. Thank you. BATH: So, the intent of you two getting together outside of the meeting would be to tweak that? The issue that you just spoke about. Not to tweak the whole map, correct? LUL No. HUSTACE: No. I took the Chair's suggestions at our last meeting and then went home and created a map based off of his suggestions, and then submitted it for the Commission. BATH: Correct. So LUL Can I clarify my motion for Ms. Bath? BATH: Yeah. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL The motion was that we take the two alternative plans that we considered today, one by Chair Kossow and one by Vice Chair Hustace, and that the two of them work together to address the concerns that came up in both plans. Because there were positive aspects of both. And I agree with you, Commissioner Hustace, that this is the responsibility of us 32 all. But just as we chose these two drafts to consider today, if on the 9h we could consider one draft that the two of you have some agreement on, that would just move us along a lot quicker. So, that's the substance of my motion. LOPEZ: Question. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, did you yield? LUL Yes, I'm sorry. Yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I guess I'm hearing a different—I'm hearing a different meeting. But I never heard that we approved anything today. We reviewed the original Document 2 version Mr. Hustace presented from the previous meeting approval. We reviewed BK12, whichever it was, that this Commission approved. So, those are the two approved and then we also reviewed and talked about 9.1, right? And then the plan that I submitted which died. It just didn't work. Okay. In a meeting that I'm sitting in, we have two approved plans and one that we discussed today that there was some favor for. And out of that, out of those three plans, Chair Kossow, you just summarized the results of the discussion across multiple areas in the plan. And I believe that was what Ms. Lui was driving to. To get the two of you to formulate a third plan using today's summary, and the two plans that were already approved, plus perhaps the 9.1 recommendations. That's where I'm coming from and what I heard today. LUL Correct. LOPEZ: So, the 9.1 has not been put on the list of approved plans, but that's okay. It doesn't matter. It's what you're going to work on and what your basis is to move forward with the summary you provided, which I thought was very good. Thank you. KOSSOW: Any other discussion regarding the motion? Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I'm just a little concerned that the Chair and I would work on something based upon the comments and feedback here today, based on the two maps, and then any other changes we've made from those. What makes me nervous is that we present one to the Commission at our next meeting, and we have to make more changes after that. Like it doesn't satiate everyone, it doesn't appease everyone on the Commission level, right? So, because we're not doing it here and now with everyone, and making those changes, I worry that bringing a new iteration of like an amalgamation of the two for the next meeting will generate more controversy or concern than I'm hoping to deal with as we approach the end here. MELLON-LACEY: Mr. Chair? This is Diana. I'm a little bit confused here. I know we've had a motion. Was that motion every seconded? 33 KOSSOW: Yes, it was seconded by Mr. Yoshina. MELLON-LACEY: Oh, okay. I wasn't sure he had seconded that motion. So sorry. KOSSOW: Thank you for the clarification. Sorry, go ahead whoever was about to speak. BATH: I'm sorry for stepping on you, Diana. It's Stephanie. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Can you please say the motion again, so that we could hear it all again? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Right. Well, my motion was that the makers of the two alternative plans that we've chose to focus on, come together to address the different issues that we saw in each of the plans. And to come up with a third option that combines the best features of both hopefully, for us to consider on the 9h. BATH: So, my question is KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Just for clarification, which two documents are you referring to? Are you talking about BK12 and Doc 9? Or LUL Yes. BATH: So, BK12 and Doc 9 are the two that I've understood are actively under discussion at this time. The Commission KOSSOW: Let me give some clarification. So, there's two working drafts right now called Working Draft 1 and Working Draft 2. Working Draft 1 is BK12. Working Draft 2 is Hustace 9. Those are the two working draft maps. BATH: Okay. So, my question is, somewhere within this discussion, I understood that there was an issue with the Alii Drive area that needed to be resolved in order to make Doc 9 more presentable. That's what my understanding was. And that's what my understanding of the Chair and Vice Chair getting together outside of this meeting to work on was the intent. That specifically. Am I in error on that? LUL Yes, this is the maker of the motion. Yes, there were a number of concerns raised in terms of both of the plans. BATH: Okay. Thank you. I yield. 34 LUL Which Commissioner Kossow summarized very well, as Commissioner Lopez said. KOSSOW: Okay. So, the discussion's still on the motion. I think I'm inclined to work on this draft in this current session. That might be the best way forward. Because Mr. Hustace, and some other Commissioners, are concerned that the total nine of us, are not going be a part of that discussion. And so, there might be some changes that you folks might not like. But at least if we start this now, and we make these little changes, I think we can get a working draft by the end of today. It's currently almost twelve o'clock. Typically, this meeting is probably going to run to about 1:30 to 2:00. And I think that it's doable if we put our minds to it in regards to creating the final draft here. LOPEZ: Question. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: We have two approved drafts, or two approved possibilities on the table. Which one do we approach? Are we going to do `em both? KOSSOW: I think we should just do them both and see where LOPEZ: Do it separately? KOSSOW: Yeah, absolutely. LOPEZ: Okay, that works. I just didn't understand. Thank you. LUL This is Commissioner Lui. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL If people are willing to work on it today, together, I withdraw my motion. BATH: Commissioner Bath. I support that. KOSSOW: Alright. The motion has been withdrew. I say let's go ahead and get started on building some maps or building the districts. So, I think, staff, I believe somebody added the final Working Draft BK-whatever it is. Document 1, I think it is. I saw it on the site. So, if you can go ahead and open that. That one's going to have the changes in regards to District 5 with the four census blocks that belongs to HPP. If it's not in there oh, I don't see it on there. Oh, go to recent plans. Maybe it's in everyone. Okay. I'm seeing it here so I might have to share it. For now, let's go over to Working Document 2. And how's everybody doing? Do we need to do a break? KA`AHANUI-HOYOHOY: Yes, can we please take a break. 35 KOSSOW: Absolutely. I'm going to call a little bit longer so that way we can have like a little bit of a lunch block here. Let's do thirty minutes. We'll call back at 12:30 here. And then we'll directly to Mr. Hustace's Group Doc 2. (Thirty-minute break.) KOSSOW: Alright, calling the meeting back to order. We left off on Working Group Doc 2. Staff, were you able to receive Working Doc P Just out of curiosity. KA`AHANUI-HOYOHOY: No. KOSSOW: Okay. I'm going to go ahead and look for that. Meanwhile, I'm going to pass it over to Mr. Hustace. Did you want to share your screen? HUSTACE: Sure, if that's appropriate, I can share my screen and we make the edits as we go. KOSSOW: I think, is that doable, Mr. Kauka? KAUKA: Yes, Chair. That should be fine. Just a point of process, and Debbie from Elections can confirm. So, Mr. Hustace will be making any adjustments as the discussion goes, and that can then be preserved if the Commission wants to save that going forward. Is that correct? HUSTACE: I can save it as another file, yes. KAUKA: Okay. That sounds actually a pretty clean way to go forward. KOSSOW: We can call it like, I don't know. I don't want to make it too long of a name. It already is. HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: Working Doc 2 Draft 1, or something like that. HUSTACE: Okay. And Chair, would it be appropriate for meI did create that 9.1 based off of the previous recommendations. Should I build it from that one or starting right from Working Doc 2? KOSSOW: I think it's the same map with corrections that we just talked about, right? HUSTACE: Yes. KOSSOW: So, I think we can just name that the Draft 1 and then we work off of that. That should be fine. As well as the inclusions for that one. 36 HUSTACE: I took into consideration the request from our Commissioners on the east side of the island, in the Puna area. For seats 4 and 5, and then also the Alii Drive on the west side of the island. So, we can either revert those changes and go back to Working Group Doc 2, or take those already made changes and go from there. KOSSOW: Let's go back to the Doc 2, the original. Let's start with the changes for that one. That way we kind know what was changed and stuff so. I know that, for example, Mr. Lopez had liked your Alii Drive in the Doc 1. Maybe let's work on that one. HUSTACE: Sounds good. So, I will pull up. I'm going to share my screen here. I'm going to pull up, this is called 11-12-2021 Meeting Hawaii County Working Group Doc 2. So, this is the one that we've had some discussion about. Let me share my screen. (Pause.) Okay. So, this is what I'm looking at here. And the first change I will make here based upon, I think,positive feedback from fellow Commissioners was on this area, the eastern portion of the island. So, I'm going to start making some changes here. If you don't mind, Commissioners. YOSHINA: You have my okay. HUSTACE: Thank you. (At this time, Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the district boundaries of his Doc that was projected onto the screen.) Sometimes I noticed when I use the square dragging tool, that it grabs, especially if I'm zoomed way out, it grabs census blocks elsewhere on the island. I've noticed some issues with that. Sometimes, you know, some of you have played with this too. I lock that one just for security here, so that I can select all these here. KOSSOW: You do that so seaminglessly. HUSTACE: Okay so, this is part of that conversation whereSo, currently, in this iteration here, Council 5 is all the way down here to Kalapana, and out towards Kapoho and Pahoa town, Leilani Estates. And then part of our discussion, and then what I had in 9.1, was that it takes up part of Hawaiian Paradise Park here, on the more makai portion. Because as you can see from the nubmers here, on the bottom if you can see that, Council 4 is ten thousand over, and Council 5 is eleven thousand under. So, the next step here is to take some swaths of HPP and move it into 5. I think I need to take this part of the subdivison too. (At this time, Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the district boundaries of his Doc that was projected onto the screen.) There's a decent balance between these, 4 and 5, but I welcome some feedback in this area. And then I think the other change that was requested was for Council 3. And pushing Council 3 into PTA. LOPEZ: Question. LUL You missed a couple of tiny little pieces. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. 37 LOPEZ: Well, before we got too far down range here, can we go back to the first change you made, and see if there's discussion on that? For example, I've heard so much about not splitting Hawaiian Paradise Park, but you've introduced it again. So, maybe we need to talk about that before we get all these other changes in here. Would that help? The very first one you did. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map location projected onto the screen.) Okay, so when you—First you put that all in orange, and then you went back and you changed it to blue, so. Is there—For those Commissioners affected by this change, how do you feel about how this looks? (No response.) Okay, accepted. Go on. (Laughter.) Thank you. It's just easier for me to incrementally, than to try to see what you're doing and then come back to talk about everything at one time. For me, that works. Thank you. HUSTACE: No, that's perfect. Sorry, I jumped ahead. So, what I did here is based upon the feedback I received on what I had for 9.1 draft. I basically flipped the two. So, in Council 5 is all the makai portions. From Kapoho, out in this area, all the way down to Kalapana. So, that's in one integrous district. Pahoa's in one district all together. But to get closer to a balance of numbers, I did move into Hawaiian Paradise Park here. BATH: Oh, okay. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: This is Stephanie. Commissioner Bath. I think that there needs to beIt looks like you have Fern Forest in Ka`u. And that was, yeah, that whole area in the bottom left corner. Can you scroll everything up so we don't see Council 3? Okay yeah so, on the area to the south of Highway 11 (Commissioner Bath's audio was breaking up at this point.) HUSTACE: I'm sorry, Ms. Bath. Your reception is not that strong right now, and we can't hear you. BATH: You've got a subdivision that—Can you hear me now? HUSTACE: Still coming in choppy. BATH: Okay, I'll chat. HUSTACE: You're sounding pretty good right there. BATH: Okay. Can you hear me? HUSTACE: Yes. BATH: Can you hear me now? HUSTACE: Yes. 38 BATH: Okay. Fern Forest. Okay, in that area, it's really important to keep Fern Forest and the lower part of what you're calling District 4 intact. It's critical that Fern Forest get moved, remain in that subdivision. And one suggestion would be, there are those four HPP lots that you have in our area. Perhaps moving those into HPP might remedy. You remember where, go down—Let's address the upper Puna part first. Can you see where Fern Forest is? Its southern perimeter is Jungle King Road. (Pause.) Yeah, there you go. Let's see. So, that brings the numbers up. So, my suggestion might be to go to the bottom of what you're calling District 4 now. Oh, wait a minute. Okay, no. So, that—It's still blue. Fern Forest is still blue, that needs to be orange. (Pause.) Okay, now bring it up a little more to the left. That's all Fern Forest. HUSTACE: So, the deviation now pushes that district over seven percent. Just that addition there. Just want to be clear. BATH: Yeah, don't worry. And it's going to be more. Don't worry about that. `Cause this is really important. Fern Forest definitely wants to be in District 5. There was a map that had it in District 5 that we looked at. So, those last few large rectangles. HUSTACE: What's a good—What's a road name there that's a boundary line, Ms. Bath? BATH: Well, it would be—You're taking Jungle King Road. Okay. So, you'd hit on 2531 (At this time, Commissioner Bath's audio cut out) Am I with you? HUSTACE: No, I think we lost you there. BATH: Am I with you? HUSTACE: Yes. BATH: Am I with you now? HUSTACE: Yes. BATH: Okay. So, if you look at—I'm trying to get names for you. Go from the census block that has 38. Do you see those? From the Volcano Highway? What you want to do is, you want to go to the left of where you have it. From the orange and the blue, and start clicking. KOSSOW: Do you want all of that section there? BATH: That whole—Well, wait a minute. You might have already accomplished it. I apologize, I'm not able to bring up the—Can you minimize? Just zoom out. I'm just trying to seeoh, I just lost ya. I lost the screen. AKAMU: Kahauale`a 39 HUSTACE: Mr. Akamu, did you say a particular road name? AKAMU: Yeah, were you have it currently divided, Kahauale`a Road, that's just currently where it's divided right now, currently the council districts. Right where the blue and orange, that's how it is right now. So currently, that Alii Anela subdivision area is currently in the Ka`u part. It's part of that Volcano Village part that's in Ka`u. I just wanted to point that out. HUSTACE: Okay, thank you. AKAMU: You're welcome. BATH: And that's the way it should remain. To have the Fern Forest in District 5. But we're calling it District 4 right now. So, that brings the numbers up. Which means we've got to go back down to Highway 130. And those four, I think it's four—No. There are six lots that were HPP, the ones that are southwest of the highway. (Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map boundaries projected onto the screen.) Yeah, okay that's good. Now how are the numbers? Did the help at all? Not significantly, yeah? HUSTACE: So,just for clarity, this Council 4 in the orange is over eight percent. And Council 5 is looking good. But it has some weird continuous issues I would imagine. The problem right now is with Council 6. BATH: So, weren't we talking about going into south Kona on that before? HUSTACE: Yeah, we can go there. Is there anything else I should be adjusting here though, Commissioners? I have part of HPP BATH: I think maybe you could lock this. Maybe you could lock 4 and 5 for right now. Oh, wait! Four(4) is not looking good. Oh, yeah. Okay. I see. LOPEZ: Question. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: This is for Ms. Bath. Why do we have those four—go up to the right a little bit. Why do we have those four lots in District 5? I mean it just looks so weird. What was the purpose of your change for that? Are those people associated more with the blue than the orange? KOSSOW: I believe that part is HPP. And it goes all the way down the road there. But Ms. Bath, are you still available? (No response.) LOPEZ: That looks better. I don't know if it accomplished 40 HUSTACE: Yeah, if I wanted to keepI know that those four are part of HPP. But this whole, this whole census block here is, if I'm not mistaken, part of HPP as well. So, I'm not sure if moving those four on the southern half of 130, you're giving them the opportunity to switch into Council 5, but not all these other people that live on the north side of HPP here. These census blocks alone, now have pushed Council 5 over three thousand positive. (Indiscernible.) BATH: It's Stephanie. Yeah, I apologize. This morning—Are we looking at Doc 9 right now? KOSSOW: This one is Working Group Doc 2, which is derived from Doc 9. Correct. BATH: Okay. I really apologize. I didn't catch that this morning when the Fern Forest was in Ka`u. I apologize. It looked really good. So yeah, now I just apologize because I did not catch that. And I can see how the numbers are—Would it be possible for us to go into Kona and let me sit on this for a little while? KOSSOW: What was the number in 5? The ending number. Or is that 4? HUSTACE: Sorry, Chair. Which one? KOSSOW: Council 5. What was the ending deviation number? HUSTACE: Deviation—If I put all of HPP—There's one sliver of Hawaiian Paradise Park that I didn't put in. So, if I just say for the purpose of it,put all of Hawaiian Paradise Park into there, we're at fourteen percent. So, the continuity of Hawaiian Paradise Park, with Kapoho, all the way down to Kalapana. Because we've had lengthy conversations about this community. And Commissioner Bath, you attested that these communities all affiliate with each other. So, putting them together, I had to take part of HPP as part of that. But now if you put all of HPP together, we're over fourteen percent positive there. KOSSOW: What is that? Four thousand people? HUSTACE: That's thirty-two— BATH: Yeah. KOSSOW: Okay. Is that— BATH: hatBATH: Right. KOSSOW: Does that—So, with that change right, we would still have to have District 4 move into there. And if we wanted to add more across the entire island, we'll have to go through every single district. 41 HUSTACE: Yes. `Cause it creates this domino effect. Where now we've given this one district thirty-two hundred beyond the number we are aiming for, and I know we have the deviation to give us the break for communities. And give some leeway for communities' size, and area around communities. But now there are thirty-two hundred less, and fewer people, to give to the other districts that may need it. So, in this particular iteration, because of how the proximity to other districts, 5 could only give to 4 here. You know, logically it can't give to 3 or 2, right? It's impossible. So, 5 can only give to 4 here. From my understanding, you can't give to 6. There's no connectivity. So, it has to give to 4 in this case. BATH: Can you scroll into district, where HPP and District 3 match up? HUSTACE: They don't match up in this case. That's part of District 4 that pushes into Kea`au. BATH: I'm sorry. I keep thinking of District 5 as what it—the names are confusing. So, can you look at where District 5, what you're calling District 5, and District 3 are? HUSTACE: Okay, so BATH: I think it's important that we switch those HUSTACE: I think you have to drop the conception about the (indiscernible). BATH: those boxes and make—changes to eventually. HUSTACE: Yeah. So, don't worry about those right now. I do have some concern about this iteration, you know, kind of divides the Pana`ewa Homelands here. So, there may be some issue there too. But this, it maintains Stainback BATH: Can you make it a little smaller so we can see that HPP area? (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map location projected onto the screen.) Okay. I think that what the issue is, is that when the way that it's drawn. Originally, the thought was to give that part of HPP to District I guess it was District—whatever district Keaukaha is. I believe that's District 2. And do it that way. But,what you did was—You know what, I'm going to yield because I think I'm thinking too much time right now. And I don't have the technology right now. Things are not connecting here. Which means I should not Zoom. I have to come in. But I'm taking too much of the Commission's time to try to help me here. You know if it's possible to take that section that's—oh boy. Yeah, I'm going to yield. I just don't have the technology here to do this right now. LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. 42 LUL Just on the Pana`ewa question. It looks like you could move that into, wait a minute, is it District 4? To unite Keaukaha and Pana`ewa without—or wait a minute. Or from 4 to 2, I mean? `Cause Council 2 has too few people anyway. Of course, so does Council 4 for the moment, but at least uniting might help. Hmm, I don't know. I yield. KOSSOW: We would still have to accommodate more in District 4. So, the only place that we have to take some parts of it is HPP, correct? HUSTACE: Yeah, at this point. I mean we didn't start pushing into Council 6. And we've gone this far down Volcano Highway, I am concerned about this other side too, above Mountain View. It's kind of a little lopsided maybe. It's not as a the shape is irregular. But yeah, so I don't know. I'm concerned about some of these areas more mauka of Mountain View. BATH: The Mountain View area itself, to Ihope Road and Stainback Highway, which is northwest of the Volcano Highway, that is the Mountain View community. So, cutting that off and giving it to Ka`u would be problematic. Yeah, that area. But that just adds more numbers to District 4 dash District 5. (Indiscernible) those names at this time. Change the number on those districts. I know that Shannon had mentioned that there was a way to do that. `Cause it would be like, for Kona, talking about District 7 and District 8, and District 8 as District 7. And having a conversation that way. It's really confusing. But I don't know if that's doable now. KOSSOW: We can't change the names of it, but we can change the color of it. If you wanted to change the district, you would have to redo the map all over again. So, in this case, I think for right now, based off what we can see, I think it might be good just to leave it the way it is so that we don't take up too much time flip flopping 4 and 5 around. HUSTACE: So, question for the Commissioners. Where can I give—(Ms. Bath speaking in the background;Audio cutting in and out). Sorry, you cut off there for a second. I didn't hear you, Commissioner Bath. What should I do with some of the population deviation here, between 4 and 6? LOPEZ: May I interject a suggestion? Because Ms. Bath has some real needs to make things the way she'd like them. And we as a Commission are kind of standing back and hitting, missing. So, perhaps we could leave it the way it was introduced and let her go off and design that area on her own. And come back and give us what she'd like to see. BATH: I agree. LOPEZ: Otherwise, we'll be here all night. KOSSOW: Yeah. Let's hold off for 4 and 5 for now. And then Mr. Hustace, let's head over to Kona. 43 HUSTACE: Okay. We're here on the west side now. Chair and Commissioner Lopez, did you have any feelings or thoughts? Did we want to focus on the boundary between 6 and 7? Or did you want to talk about 7 and 8? KOSSOW: I'm good with your 7 and 6. I would like to open up a conversation with 7 and 8. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: Perhaps the best way to go about this, is to do it kind of in the original lines from the previous commission. But if we also include Hualalai Road, it's kind of that road there with that six hundred—five hundred—my eyes are not what they used to be. Okay, you see where the University of the Nations is? Right over there, yeah. So, I think that can go into 8. And then that huge census block, and that smaller ones. Is that too far up, Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: You know, I was, as a compromise, understanding what difficulty we have. I was happy with the way it looked. `Cause it maintained the integrity of Kailua-Kona and surrounding municipalities. And then maintained—didn't fuss around with the Alii Drive issue. KOSSOW: Sorry, Mr. Hustace. LOPEZ: I was happy, as a compromise, with this version. KOSSOW: Can you scroll down into that V section, right below Kuakini Highway? Yeah, right in there. Lunapule. How many people is in there? Two hundred? HUSTACE: That one says 287. LOPEZ: So, three hundred approximately. HUSTACE: Yeah, approximately three hundred between those two census blocks. KOSSOW: Lunapule would be it, make it a little bit more straight. That would help, but it pulls the deviation. Oh no, you're still in deviation. Okay. Would you be okay with that, Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Pardon me? KOSSOW: Would you be okay with that? Bringing the District 8 up to Lunapule. LOPEZ: Would I be okay with that? KOSSOW: Yeah. 44 LOPEZ: Yes. Yeah. We're still within our deviations? Good? KOSSOW: Yeah. We're over two and negative two. Okay. LOPEZ: I'm happy to protect the core, and you've done that with this version. KOSSOW: I'm good with District 6, 7, and 8, on the west side. HUSTACE: Okay. Shall we look at theSo, I just want to be clear on the boundary with 6 here. I did try, and all of Captain Cook is in one, for at least more of the core of Captain Cook. I know there's some large residential areas here. But we have an issue here with 6. It's under four thousand, so we just have to be mindful of that. KOSSOW: If I'm not mistaken, once we readjust 5, we're going to be pushing more towards Kona. So, I think we just gotta.be HUSTACE: Be prepared for that? KOSSOW: Be prepared for that, yeah. So obviously, this side of Kona is going to change, I think. HUSTACE: Okay. So, we'll leave that for now then. Do you mind if I jump to—With Commissioner Yoshina's input, P6hakuloa, well the majority of it at least, that looks There are some weird census block lines here. But majority of it is in P6hakuloa. There is a junction between, kind of, the districts right here, at Old Saddle Road. That might be a good breaking point for the districts. Or, majority of P6hakuloa Training, especially the barracks themselves, and the airfield, are all in Seat 3. YOSHINA: That's good for me. Thank you. HUSTACE: Okay. And do I dare talk about the Waimea area? So, we can start—You know, a lot of the shifted things north because we targeted Honoli`i as the breaking point for Seats 1 and 2. So, this is right along the Honoli`i Stream, and I believe it follows Honoli`i Stream all the way up mauka, to headwaters there, up in the Humu'ulu area. Now, this is all Seat 1, but Seat 1 does push into Waimea here. And I'm curious to see what the public says about something like this, for this particular area. But it does keep the Pu`u Kapu Homeland, which is all here. We can see this Mana Road kind of comes down and it does split the Homeland, Pu`u Kapu that is. Now, so, it's all in 1 (one). It takes the more rural, well even part of the core of Waimea too, but the rural ag focus of Waimea. Including up in Waiki`i area, which is more rural ag, in that Council Seat 1. But it does incorporate parts of, more of a, urban core of Waimea in there as well. So, it does push into Waimea. And it splits at—You know, it's not taking into some of the homes that abut the Kawaihae Road here, and the whole entire core of Waimea. Shopping centers are all in Council 1. Post Office is in Council 1. So, kind of that urban core of Waimea. And if you go along Kawaihae Road, it also split, and then it kind of breaks also 45 here at Kohala Mountain Road, and carries up here. So, this particular census block, which I have concern about, I highlighted it there for you to see. KOSSOW: It's a rhinoceros. HUSTACE: It is awkward. This could be in 1 (one) or the other district. There aren't many residents in these here. So, that one could switch easily. LUL Commissioner Lui. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I don't have any point of view on those nineteen people either way, but I like what you've done. I mean, as you said originally, we had a choice between pushing farther down into Hilo or pushing farther up in Waimea. And I definitely prefer this version. I think it's good. And if I was a Waimea resident, I think I would prefer to be all together. Even though, some people are a little bit more rural than others, but still, it's all one thing as far as I can tell. James, you probably have more insight. HUSTACE: Yeah, it's definitely going to be a point of contention, I think, at the public hearings. You know, we're dividing Waimea. So, there'd be two voices for the Waimea area, two representatives. Some of the reasoning I kind of perceived is, everything, and unfortunately down Kawaihae Road, the Waikoloa Village area, and the coastal areas, this is more of a coastal resort node and hub. Haw! and Kapa`au was kind of an outlier to that, unfortunately. But wanted to make sure that they were together up on the north side of the island. They have very similar voices up there, and requests of elected officials. So, it will be something to take note of when we hear from the public on these here, this particular area. LUL Right. If I can. It seems like the farther you go down Kawaihae Road, the more people might relate to Kawaihae and Waikoloa. But it's just the ones. And it's not that many people at the very top that are separated from the people on the other side of Kawaihae Road there. But it's yeah. HUSTACE: Yeah, it's possible toIt may be possible. Look at the numbers here between 1 and 9. It would be giving more to Council 1, but there are some in this area. Especially, this area here is all farm. This is all Lalamilo. So, that could switch over. There's even Lalamilo Hawaiian Homes here. Which I'm actually surprised there are four residents there because it's not built out. LUL Four. Interesting. HUSTACE: Yeah, that is. That's actually kind of an anomaly, I think. `Cause there are no homes there, unless—no. `Cause it's still on the side of—yeah. There are a lot of streams here that are following—The census blocks are following these streams here. So, you have Waikoloa Stream, a lot of ones that run along Kawaihae Road here, and parallel 46 to Kawaihae Road. Let me just do a quick change, and see what it looks like here, if I just switch them just out of curiosity. (Pause.) LUL I think it might be too many people, yeah. Five. HUSTACE: Yeah, it did push one over five percent now. LUL Right. That's a little steep. Well, I guess I would recommend that we leave it the way it is and just hear from people before we try to massage it any further. If there's strong protest, then we'll have to see what we can do. HUSTACE: Would it be possible to revisit with the Commissioners for our connections to Seat 6 and talk about that a little bit? Where it pushes into it a little bit more, and where we can gain some population back. At this point, Council 4 has to let go of some members as well. LOPEZ: Okay. What was the question again regarding District 6? HUSTACE: Yeah, so, let's see. So, Council 6, is eighteen percent under, in this current iteration, 4,181. And Council 4 in this case is fifteen percent over. LOPEZ: Okay. So, these are the result of the time spent with Ms. Bath today? HUSTACE: Yeah,just the shifting. LOPEZ: But this wasn't the original? Okay. Now I know where we are. Thank you. LUL So, I think, Commissioner Akamu,just in terms of pushing it up into Kona more, you had suggested that. How would that work? Of course, then, that affects 7. AKAMU: Yeah, I guess that's the—The challenge is how do we not incorporate some of this lower part, southern part, of Council 7 without affecting the Alii Drive and the Kailua central? And that's Kawena's area, right? So, I'm stuck between Kawenanah, I'm just kidding. So, I guess that's the push and pull that we have. But, I admit, we have to get numbers from somewhere. So, we might have to grow into that Fern Forest area. (Indiscernible; Audio cutting in and out.) BATH: Yeah so, I have a question on that. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu, go ahead. AKAMU: But at least, if we do put that out, I expect that we will hear more. And I will hope that we can get this, if that becomes part of the draft that we're letting the public view for comments, I'm sure we'll get a lot of comments about that. And that's expected. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. 47 BATH: Yeah, so one of my concerns is for Ka`u and their representation (indiscernible; Audio cutting in and out.) KOSSOW: Sorry, Ms. Bath, you're connection is a little spotty here. BATH: because I know the village, Volcano Village—(Pause.) KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, can you hear us okay? (No response.) Alright. When she comes back online, I'll have her go next. BATH: I'm back. I'm back. KOSSOW: Oh, go ahead. Thank you. Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah, sorry. Yeah so, when I look at District 6, and I see Ka`u's Hawaiian Ocean View, Wai`6hinu, well the whole thing, but it really extends into different neighborhoods and communities. And I think we all, and anyone that kind of knows about Ka`u, is aware of that. And my concern for Ka`u is that, they're going to be getting representation, whoever represents them, is going to be representing south Kona, Hawaiian Ocean View Estates, Na`alehu, Miloli`i, South Point, Pahala, and that's part of it. And then the Volcano. When you do just include Fern Acres then, that's an upper Puna type of a thing. So, the vote for Ka`u is really going to be, and the representation, could come from south Kona. It could come from Fern Forest. And each of those are very, very different. So, the concern about in two areas that(indiscernible; Audio cutting in and out) and those people not being represented in their district, but for Ka`u as well. And I just wanted to put that on the table, especially for the District 6 Commissioner. How you feel about that? AKAMU: I think, because this is for our County Council seat, it becomes especially important for that person to be able to reach out and make connection with all of these different communities. So, I think that would be especially important. But you're right, there are many communities that our council member will have to represent. But probably in all the other council districts as well, there are a diversity of different groups and communities to work with. So, it's definitely a challenge. And I think that is a concern that we share because typically, if you have a representative that is more tied up with a constituent in one particular area, it may prove difficult for others. But I think again, that comes down to having, hopefully, a really good council member for your district also. And looking at the Council District 7, that's an area that maybe we can balance some from that lower part, or the eastern part of that area. But yeah, it's a challenge but I would say that it's not one that is insurmountable. And it's one that we kind of deal with already because for our state representative, the lines is split right down the middle of Ka`u. So, Pahala side has one state rep, and Na`alehua, Wai`6hinu side has another state rep. So, it's something that we deal with already for state legislature. Thank you. I yield. 48 KOSSOW: This is Bronsten. I was thinking, when we decide to move Council District 6 northward, into District 7, the original lines would go to right before Haleki`i Street, which is on your top left there. I know that probably would give you some leeway once we figure out the deviations for 4 and 5. I think that would probably be the max I would push it towards. Mr. Lopez, did you have something? LOPEZ: Yes. We're calling to discussion about District 6, which is valuable. But we've introduced discussion that really hinges back on the problems. We haven't solidified District 4 and 5 yet. And that's what's pushing this discussion over here, I think. So, why don't we solve the problem we've got before we go and try to fix something that we may not need to fix. I mean we're just going round and round and round here. We're talking about different things, but not solving the immediate short-term problem, and that's District 4. KOSSOW: I agree with that, Mr. Lopez. Mostly because every single district that we've gone to so far, it says but we have to wait till 4 and 5 is completed. So, we might have to have a little bit more of a lengthier conversation, if that's alright with everybody, on Council 4 and 5 and trying to figure out what to do with Working Group Doc 2. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Yeah, could I ask for a recess? Short recess, please. KOSSOW: Five-minute recess. YOSHINA: Okay. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Calling meeting back to order. I wanted to change the discussion a little bit, and move over to Working Group Doc 1, if everybody is okay with that. Mostly because the contention with Working Group Doc 2 in regards to District 4, as well as District 5. So, if there's no objections, I'd like to move forward with this one. (No response.) Okay, without hearing any, Mr. Hustace is going to take control on changing up the maps here. So, if we can have maybe discussion in regards to—let's just go in order, maybe start with District 1. LUL Okay. I believe I gave my comments before, and I don't have anything new to add. Again, I would prefer to have the boundary moved up to Honoli`i Stream. Let me say, I just really liked James's as one. And in a way I would just say, could we lock that one, that in, and work from there? Yeah, I don't really want to repeat myself on this one. KOSSOW: Is there a possibility to move Honoli`i Stream on this one? I know that we would have to change something up in District 8 and 9. 49 HUSTACE: Chair, shall we try that then? We'll take a try-it here KOSSOW: Yeah, let's go ahead and try that. HUSTACE: Okay. So, we're going to play with Working Doc 1 here. And, I can turn on, at your request, if you want to see where the current council lines are. So, that's in yellow, highlights the council lines. So, I can leave that on if you want to. Alright. Let's tinker with this. So, I'm going to be moving and adjusting this line for Council 2 up to Honoli`i. YOSHINA: So, James, do it gently now. (Laughter.) HUSTACE: And there were six people living in the park the day they took the census, it looks like. YOSHINA: Okay. HUSTACE: Let me just make sure I'm following Honoli`i Stream here. `Cause there's Kaiwiki Stream, and then Honoli`i, kind of, is on north side of that. LUL Yeah, you're right. HUSTACE: Sorry, I'm just looking up for the headwaters here. It goes as far up as it says, up to Hakalau. So, it's kind of at the yeah, alright. KOSSOW: If I remember correctly, we weren't able to accomplish if we wanted to deviate back a little bit from Honoli`i to Wainaku. It was hard to accomplish that because the census block makes like a weird U-shape, right? From Honoli`i to LUL Yeah. HUSTACE: Yeah. So, let me see if I can find that, Chair. There's a mauka census block. Let's see. I think it'sI don't know if it's that one. KOSSOW: I think that is that one. HUSTACE: This might be it. You see where on the northern boundary of the census block (indiscernible) and then the other side is Wailuku. KOSSOW: Yeah. It will be really difficult to draw back to Wainaku. LUL Yeah. YOSHINA: Okay. So, the only question I have about this is, what does Hilo lose on the south side of that? In other words, the boundary between 2 and 3. Is there any lost there? 50 HUSTACE: Commissioner Yoshina, I haven't made any changes. Are you offering part of Hilo up to Council 3 then? YOSHINA: Oh no, no. I'm just curious. (Laughter.) KOSSOW: I wonder if the original council, took the 2011 council district, you can kind of see it there if that would be the same amount to reduce the deviation. YOSHINA: It looks the same, yeah. Okay. I'm good. Thank you. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. So, Chair, would you like me to adjust it to the current line then and see how that plays? KOSSOW: What is Council District 3 looking like though? That fourteen hundred? HUSTACE: Yeah. LUL Three (3) is also over. HUSTACE: If for some reason, when I loaded this map up, this map already had Council 3 at fourteen hundred over. Was that, from your recollection, right? KOSSOW: No. I think it was below five, but I must have adjusted something before it became a Working Doc. HUSTACE: Okay. Let me try something. I'm going to save this quickly, and just pull up the other 12 you have, and see if there's a difference there. If that's okay, Chair? KOSSOW: Yeah, that's fine. (Pause.) I remember what it was. We were working on District 3 and 4, taking part of HPP, and then I moved things around. So, that's probably why it has the fourteen hundred. HUSTACE: Okay. I'll just open up a previous one and see if there's any line changes there. Okay, let's see. `Cause there was the 12 and the 12 Original. KOSSOW: I believe it was the Original. HUSTACE: Okay. Let me just take a look here. So, here chose just under five percent over. KOSSOW: Yeah, that's what I remember. HUSTACE: Okay. Let me just take a look. (Pause) These are pretty much the same, weren't they? The Original and the 51 LUL Looks like it. KOSSOW: Yeah, looks like it. Yeah, that's it. HUSTACE: So, there must have been some just slight adjustment that put it just a little bit above, closer to six percent then. Okay. I'll return back to the one we were working on. So, shall we propose making some adjustments go back to the current boundary line then? To see how that'll adjust the population count. KOSSOW: And then that would go into Council District 3, correct? HUSTACE: Yes. KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: As you see down here, it will jump it up even more, so we'll have to adjust accordingly. KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Alright. (Pause) At least use this as a starting gage to see where we are then. And then put these into Seat 2 is under a thousand right now. So, we'll take these in this KOSSOW: In that census block. HUSTACE: Is that 370? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: And that one 800? HUSTACE: One hundred there. KOSSOW: Yeah, that's good. HUSTACE: So, that puts us at a reasonable value for Seat 2. Still short five hundred, but we're approaching a better medium, a happy medium there, I think. LUL Could you take a little bit more? Given it used to be in 2 anyway. The little part to the south of that? The yellow. HUSTACE: There's quite a large population in here. Let's see what it does though. 52 LUL Oof. That's a lot, yeah. HUSTACE: So, now it jumped to over, to eleven percent,just that change there. LUL How about just taking half of it? HUSTACE: Let's see. LUL Half to the west, maybe. Although, it doesn't make a lot of sense, right. HUSTACE: I'm trying to see if there's a good like LUL A good dividing line. HUSTACE: Like you see this Alu Street? It doesn't go all the way through, unfortunately. KOSSOW: It kind of does. HUSTACE: Almost, yeah. KOSSOW: That might be a good starting. HUSTACE: Okay. I'll take the western side here. (Pause.) That does take some of the large—eats at the little bit we gave the large amount we gave to Seat 3. (Pause.) Okay. Alright. So, we can kind of go back to that. Seat 2 is an okay place, maybe. But, Seat 1, we're short about three thousand. Shall we move to the western side of Council 1, then? KOSSOW: Uh-huh. HUSTACE: This is what was presented previously. I just start shifting things around in a circle more or less. For starters, we can do all of Pu`u Kapu. And also, original Hawaiian Homes here in Kuhio Village. Along Kamamalu Street there. So, we're stillSorry, Commissioner Lui? LUL No, that's good. Keep on grabbing. HUSTACE: Now, this is an interesting census block that I also have concerns about. It's this one here. LUL Yeah. HUSTACE: This one—When we have our conversations after we submit our maps, we need to have discussions about these. And what to do with these and submit them to the Census. I'll just identify a couple areas here for you. These are subdivisions off of Mamalahoa Highway. And yet, it's all this mauka portion too, that is all—No one lives 53 up here. It's forest and Forest Reserve, and yet it touches residential things all along here. Keaka Kea Place, Waikelehua Place, all in the core of—and it buckles around Church Road. And then yet, it goes all the way to the main intersection of Waimea. This is a problem. So, if I wanted to grab for more numbers, yeah you know, then I'd have to grab the Church Road as well. LUL That's still under, so. HUSTACE: Yeah. Let's see here. This is a future development area in Waimea, out here. This is the community hospital. These are the other shopping centeroh, yeah. So, I should mention that there's another shopping center across the road in this area, so. This is part of a subdivision. We just broke up part of a subdivision. So, you'd have to take the rest of the subdivision, right? LUL Right. And Holoholoku is really, kind of,part of all of that as well. HUSTACE: Exactly. So, this is an interesting census block here too. Because it LUL Yeah, crazy. It goes all the way down to the airport. HUSTACE: So, this is a residential area. This is the Parker Ranch racetrack and the airport. And then it goes out to the Pu`u's out here. Yup. LUL That's a crazy census block too. HUSTACE: This is doable somewhere around here. Unless you want to capture more, but right now we're at four percent under. LUL I mean, in your map James, you did have a little bit more of Waimea. HUSTACE: I did, yeah. I pushed a little bit further. I mean, it's possible, to leave it here and it catches the core of Waimea. Mine was a little bit more extreme, where it goes up Kohala Mountain Road some. LUL Right, right. HUSTACE: And maybe because I was trying to get to a better number for Waimea. LUL Right, right. Well, what do you think in terms of the community of interest? HUSTACE: Tough to say. A lot of these people, and you're familiar with this, Commissioner Lui, that a lot of the residents that live from Pa`auilo, Honoka`a, or even beyond, commute through Waimea to work along the coastal areas. So, they live and vote in one area, but work in another. And this will be much of the same. LUL Yeah. 54 HUSTACE: Yeah, there's a great commute through Waimea every day. LUL Uh-huh. Well, I mean if it's the same, then they're similar in their needs and interests. So, if we took a little bit more, that would probably be okay. Yeah, but they're odd-shaped pieces in here. HUSTACE: Yeah,just trying to make it look halfway decent too. We can even use Old Saddle Road as another breaking line here, as a possibility. So, I just want to give some options here. LUL Right. So far, you haven't reallyoh, there. You finally got a few people. HUSTACE: Yeah, these people just live on the Mauna Kea side of Waiki`i. This is a previous line here, from the current. So, that could be a break point there, or it takes part of this. This is a weird part here. So, maybe Council 2. It's an odd thing because you're already over the summit of Mauna Kea, and you're also on the west side of the island. LUL It's all zero people, so that should just go into 2 probably. HUSTACE: It could. Yeah, it could. Yeah, I can try that for now and see what it looks like. Then it's just more contiguous there. LUL Yeah, it just needs more, yeah. HUSTACE: Okay, so that's a possibility there. So, shall we visit Kona side then? KOSSOW: Did we meet a deviation number for P HUSTACE: So, 1 we're sitting at just under four percent. Negative four percent, 3.99, for Council 1. KOSSOW: Okay. And then what about 9 (indiscernible) ? HUSTACE: Nine? Yeah, so 9 we've lost. So, we're negative ten. KOSSOW: Okay. What if you incorporated parts of(indiscernible)? Oh, I guess that census block is really HUSTACE: This one here? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: Maybe do your map in north Kona. 55 HUSTACE: And push to KOSSOW: Right before Kaiminani. Palisades, yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. So, we'll take these. You made this block, Chair? This one right here, that was your idea? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: (Laughter.) KOSSOW: No, it's your idea. HUSTACE: (Laughter.) No, did you draw this? KOSSOW: Oh, no, no, no. Somebody much smarter than me did. HUSTACE: But as you see, this is what I'm concerned about. It encircles other census blocks. Um, alright. So 9, all the way flush with Kaiminani? KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez, do you think Ahikawa would be the cut off line for this? I think it's the third—There it is, right there. Yeah. HUSTACE: Ahikawa? KOSSOW: Yeah, Ahikawa, yeah. So, that way it's all congruent. HUSTACE: Okay, let's see. Okay. So, that puts Council 9 a little bit over. At about thirteen hundred over. Yeah, this census block here is trouble as well. LUL That could be an argument for grabbing a little bit more of 9 for 1, in the Waimea area. HUSTACE: That's true. That's true. KOSSOW: One (1)was at a negative deviation already, right? LUL It was negative. Right. HUSTACE: That's correct. KOSSOW: Okay. So, what do we have till? Negative five? HUSTACE: Negative four. So, it could be the Waiki`i area is a small addition. Or pushing further down Kawaihae Road in Waimea. 56 KOSSOW: What if you added the Lalamilo into it? HUSTACE: So, yeah, 157 in the large Lalamilo block, and then these each, about another hundred here, in Ahuli Circle. Then it follows along Waikoloa Stream. (Pause.) Still can give some I can—let's see here. LUL In some ways, it might make more sense to take some of those little census blocks north of Lalamilo. On the other hand, it's hard because there are big numbers in some of those. And then you got things all split up. I think I tried to look at that once. HUSTACE: `Cause this one here is 370 there. LUL That's better. Is that okay, James, do you think to cut that off from the part of Waimea, like right above where you got the boundary now? HUSTACE: Hard to say there. You have some more affluent areas here in Waimea. LUL Well in that case, they might be okay with being with Haw! in north Kohala. KOSSOW: Would it be better if went north versus the middle section of HUSTACE: Went north—sorry. KOSSOW: Sorry. The way you had it. Up along the Kohala Mountain Road. HUSTACE: Instead of this Lalamilo area? KOSSOW: Correct. HUSTACE: Okay. Let's try that out. So, take this, on the more mauka portion? KOSSOW: Right, right. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: Similar to what you had. HUSTACE: Even that or what is this stream here? LUL That was the original way I drew it when I was trying to do mine, but I'm not arguing that it's the best. HUSTACE: That's one possibility. I had to go up further, but that is, you know, that's a close number there too. I can leave that there for now. It does kind of kind of help a little 57 bit more. And it puts 9 in a better number here. How do we feel about this boundary line here for our Kona commissioners? LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Speaking away from the microphone.) HUSTACE: Yeah. The tricky thing is this census, the big census block here. And you see how it wraps around all these other small blocks? LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Speaking away from the microphone.) HUSTACE: Yeah. Everything inside of it, has to go one way or the other. But this census block, I mean look at, it goes all the way above Kuki`o. LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Speaking away from the microphone.) HUSTACE: Commissioner Lopez, do you mind turning your—sorry. LOPEZ: Sorry. So, let's repossess that whole section there with District 8 to 9. See what it does to us. HUSTACE: These up here on Ahulani? LOPEZ: Yes. All the way up. HUSTACE: This one here. Just kind of keep an eye on this here. LOPEZ: There's a boundary north of that. Keep going north yeah. To the end of that— HUSTACE: hatHUSTACE: This whole area? LOPEZ: Yeah, that whole area. HUSTACE: It will offset it a bit. Let's see. LOPEZ: That's what I'm looking for. HUSTACE: Yeah, there's quite a number in here. Yeah, so now LOPEZ: We're still under. HUSTACE: Well, now Council 9 is short again. LOPEZ: Oh, yeah. KOSSOW: Try to (indiscernible) or Loloa Drive. We can kind of see that. See Loloa there? 58 LOPEZ: Loloa north. KOSSOW: Let that be the boundary between 9. LOPEZ: Yeah, there you go. What's that do? Nine (9) is back in good shape. I didn't do much. HUSTACE: So, we need to tackle some boundary with 7 and 8 then. LUL Commissioner Lui. Can I interject just for a second? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL What you said about the more affluent part of Waimea being above Kawaihae Road, that made me think that maybe they should stay in 9, and Lalamilo and that area that is more rural, to stay with District 1. And that, I believe, would give, because we wouldn't be taking quite as much, that would give a little bit more numbers to District 9. HUSTACE: Yeah. On both sides of Kawaihae Road you're going to find housing like that. This is a Buster Brown (indiscernible). But also, some of these subdivisions in here as well. They're kind of more or less the same. In terms of that housing LUL Right. But Lalamilo, and going down below that, is more rural. But I'll leave that up to you, James. You know that area better than me. HUSTACE: Yeah. Just trying to see what just trying to keep something. Let me just leave it for a second, and then we'll come back to it if we have to. LUL Okay, sure. I wasn't sure if it would help with numbers for 9 and others. HUSTACE: Yeah, I can try that switch again here in a moment and see how it goes, one way or the other. We can try either side. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Just because I'm curious about this one. There is a DHHL Hawaiian Homes Development right north of Kawaihae. I'm wondering where that is. HUSTACE: Yeah, north of Kawaihae is right here. KOSSOW: It's mauka of it, right? HUSTACE: Yeah, it's all this here. 59 YOSHINA: Okay. So, that's in District 9, is it? HUSTACE: That's correct. That's all of Kailapa. Yeah, this is all Kailapa. This is Hawaiian Homes. They abut them, is Kohala Ranch. So, you have some of the affluent YOSHINA: Okay. Right, right. HUSTACE: This is all of Kailapa subdivision, and Hawaiian Homestead. But they're all in one district there. Yeah. I know we had some testimony about that. KOSSOW: Alright. So, on the Council 8's deficit here, going into Council 7, I'm okay with it going to the original boundary line. Which is right at Hualalai Road. LOPEZ: Yeah, let's try that. That looks like one we just came from. Doesn't it? KOSSOW: Yeah. LOPEZ: Go ahead. HUSTACE: You said Hualalai Road, Chair? KOSSOW: Yeah. So, it's the original boundary line. You can kind of see it there, yeah. HUSTACE: So, all of Nani Kailua? KOSSOW: All of Nani Kailua, Nani Kailua mauka— HUSTACE: Beyond the mauka portions too? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. To kind of match the current lines? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Alright. And then also following down into Kona town? KOSSOW: Yeah, I believe this is the Pines. Yeah, let's go ahead and put that in there too. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: What does that bring us? HUSTACE: So, that puts 8 at 1.7 under. So, we'll need to tackle 7 next. 60 KOSSOW: Okay. Mr. Lopez, do you think if the district went all the way down into the bottom portion of Hualalai Road, `cause I believe that census block goes from the credit union all the way to Hale Halawai. So if we wanted to put that part of Alii Drive into Council 8 LOPEZ: Above University of the Nations? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, go into Hale Halawai. This is down left—no, other way. HUSTACE: Did I miss it? KOSSOW: In downtown. HUSTACE: Oh, downtown. Sorry. Misheard you there. KOSSOW: Keep going up. HUSTACE: It`s right here. KOSSOW: Yeah, that's it right there. So, that would be the boundary line. You see how that census block kind of goes across like that? We could add that in there. LOPEZ: No, the northern portion back in District 8. HUSTACE: So, all of these around the Bay? KOSSOW: That's all in the Bay. LOPEZ: Yes. HUSTACE: Okay. So, I'll put this one into 8, correct? KOSSOW: Correct. And then Hualalai Road, or Hale Halawai, will be the boundary. HUSTACE: Right there? LOPEZ: There. Yes. HUSTACE: And I'll throw the Bay in as well. LOPEZ: Okay. Eight(8) is in good standing. HUSTACE: Looking good there? KOSSOW: Yeah, that looks good to me. 61 HUSTACE: Okay. So, we'll have to move south then, for 7 to gain more? KOSSOW: If you're going to gain in 7, I would start from the Konawaena School. `Cause I did it to an old coffee road as the boundary line between the north part of 7 and 8, or 7 and 6. So, if you want to move a little bit closer, adding in Konawaena, I think that would be a good start on the mauka end. HUSTACE: What was the name? Koa Road, you said? KOSSOW: Go up north a little bit more. Keep going. Right there. So, that road right there, where this boundary line is, so that's Konawaena School. And then that census block is just coffee farms. HUSTACE: This one here? KOSSOW: Yeah. So, we can take all of that, going all the way to the bypass intersection. Which is right there, where your mouse is. HUSTACE: Okay. So, up to this one here? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. Alright. KOSSOW: What is it at now? HUSTACE: Now we're at still under 7.8 percent. LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Speaking away from the microphone.) HUSTACE: Yes. KOSSOW: Then you would have to take that whole subdivision up on the mauka side. HUSTACE: All above here? KOSSOW: Yeah. That's going to be right around a thousand at least. LOPEZ: Now you're 628 under. HUSTACE: There are some mauka residents up here too. Now you're under two percent there. KOSSOW: Okay, perfect. 62 LOPEZ: Could we go back to 8 where the University of the Nations is? I want to refresh my memory here. HUSTACE: Yeah. LOPEZ: Can you expand? I can't read those. Zoom in a little bit. HUSTACE: Zoom in more? LOPEZ: Yes, thank you. And go down some. The other way. Sorry. What area is that 501? KOSSOW: Where do you see that? LOPEZ: Or 6—what is it? To the right. Below where it says Council 7, right up there. KOSSOW: I think that's Hamburger Hill. No, that's like the Mazda dealership, going all the way down to HUSTACE: This one here? KOSSOW: Yeah. But I think it also includes the elderly homes on the Hualalai Road. LOPEZ: And what's to the right of that? Aloha Kona looks like? Oh, that's the highway. That yellow line the highway? KOSSOW: Yeah, Hualalai. And then above that is the highway. LOPEZ: Oh, up there is the highway? KOSSOW: Yeah. LOPEZ: Okay, thank you. Just wanted to refresh. HUSTACE: No problem. Okay. So, 7 is still under a little bit but it's in a better place I'm assuming. Six (6). Shall we move to the east side now? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. So, right now, looking at the east side,just in a general sense here, this whole area, this whole region, Council 3 is fifteen over, Council 5 is just a tiny bit over, 78 citizens, 4 is two hundred over, but 6 is under almost thirty-nine hundred. KOSSOW: I think what you're going to have to do is, your idea of adding, I think in your map, Council 4 went into HPP, right? 63 HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: So, we might want to consider putting Council 5 into where Council 3 is on this map. HUSTACE: Okay. So, it pushes into Hawaiian Paradise Park. KOSSOW: And then you can take some parts of Council 6, and then after we'll have to have that discussion. How that's going to work. HUSTACE: So, I can at least start pushing this to the current line and see. It's not going to give us that too much more, but let's try this. (Pause.) You said push 5 into Paradise Park then? Because I need to take from Council 3. KOSSOW: You need to take from Council 3. So, I think, what do you need? There's like three thousand extra in there? HUSTACE: Yeah. Thirty-five hundred. KOSSOW: So, I think that will be fine. HUSTACE: So, I'm going to start with the four blocks that are hanging over the road there, unfortunately. I know that's part of HPP, but let's keep them all together if possible. KOSSOW: And that doesn't affect Council 3, right? HUSTACE: Council 3 is looking a lot better. It's at two percent over. KOSSOW: That's perfect. HUSTACE: Now, this is the dance we have to play with 6 and 5 here. KOSSOW: Right. Is Ms. Bath still on? (No response.) LUL I think she was having problems with her connection and stuff, so she stepped away for now. KOSSOW: Okay. This goes back to our last map discussion on how far we want to push Council 6 into Council 5 in this map. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Can you bear with me and go back to District 2,please? 64 HUSTACE: Of course. YOSHINA: I want to know where the line is in relations to the airport, the wharf, and Kanoelehua Avenue. HUSTACE: So, I did move it—Because we moved, it shifted north to Honoli`i, I did bring the eastern boundary of Council 2 back to where it is right now. So, the yellow line shows where we are right now. So, it is off of—you know, it's a couple blocks back away from the airport, off of Kanoelehua. YOSHINA: And the wharf is also in District 3? HUSTACE: Yes. That's correct. YOSHINA: And that used to be in District 2 at one time. HUSTACE: Not currently, but it was probably at one point, yes. In our current seat, in our current map, that's all in Seat 3. YOSHINA: And where is the industrial area right now? HUSTACE: The industrial area is all in Seat 3, as it is right now. YOSHINA: Okay. Thank you. HUSTACE: I don't know if you can see the yellow on the screen there, but that shows the current district. YOSHINA: I kind of get lost as it moves more towards the Council 3. I cannot see the contrast there, but that's okay. HUSTACE: I can switch it here. I can switch the color. Let's try like a light blue. I don't know if you can see that there. YOSHINA: Yeah, I can see that better. So,presently, the airport and the wharf are in District 2? LUL Three (3). HUSTACE: They're in 3. YOSHINA: They're in 3 presently. HUSTACE: Yeah. Yeah. 65 YOSHINA: Okay, so they remain in 3? HUSTACE: That's correct. YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL No, I'm good. KOSSOW: Thank you. Okay, so we're going to go over to District 5 and District 6. And how many, we have 3,517, a positive fifteen deviation. HUSTACE: Can you see that there? KOSSOW: Yeah. And then a negative 3,102. So, it's an even three thousand that we need to pick up. HUSTACE: Yeah, or something close to that. Where they get to a closer number under ten percent, yeah. So, we need to make some decision on—and Chair, with your map here, you have some of the more mauka portions just outside Volcano. Could be on Mountain View in Seat 6. So, this was to gain some more population. You can see where the line is there, right? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: That's where it is now, and then this is where you're taking a little bit more towards Hilo to capture some more residents. KOSSOW: Can you scroll up to Mountain View? HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: Now I think, scroll out just a little bit. We're not going to be able to take anything from the mauka side of this or heading right over to Hilo. Because that's going to be—it's still going to be less than three thousand. HUSTACE: Yeah, and the connectivity is an issue probably as well. KOSSOW: Yeah, exactly. And so, I do think that we're going to have to take some from the lower portion of, I guess that's that's not Volcano Village, is it? Going back down? No, that's not. HUSTACE: No. Volcano is all—yeah, we're beyond that already here. Commissioner Akamu, what is the name of the subdivision right here? 66 AKAMU: Alii Anela. That's the road over there. In the blue, yeah in the blue there. HUSTACE: And so, currently they're in Council 6, yes? AKAMU: Yeah, currently Ka`u. And then just in the green, that's the Fern Forest community. Yeah. HUSTACE: And this is where we're going to be having some difficulty in moving this population count into Seat 6. AKAMU: Correct. I think when you click it and turn it blue, it definitely helps balance the numbers. So, I can see why it should be an option that's on the table to consider. And I do understand Commissioner Bath's need to keep that community together. But it is an option to balance the numbers. And I guess you would just maybe split it at Eden Roc. Which is all the little rectangles going up right there. HUSTACE: That's this one right here? AKAMU: Yeah. HUSTACE: Is that Ohia Avenue? Is that correct that I'm seeing? AKAMU: Yeah. So, you could try split it right there, and just keep the Fern Forest group in Ka`u. So, at least now we're down at nine percent. Or negative nine. So, at least we're in the ten percent. But you're right. That's the challenge. That's the easiest way to start moving, is up there. HUSTACE: So, here we are, I'm just curious if we ran a check on this, what it would say. There was some weird continuity issues because of this census block, it follows along a stream, a little waterway. So, it would cut out across, above Eden Roc here. Commissioner Akamu, if someone were to be living in Eden Roc, what is their connectivity to Highway 11? How would they exit and get up to Highway 11? Is that on this one here? Sometimes I can't read the thing there. AKAMU: So, usually they go to South Kopua Road. Which is like one of the main roads to turn into that community down there. That would be, you know, you go, and then that's the road you go up to the main, to get to Highway 11, the main road. HUSTACE: Okay. Just out of curiosity's sake, I want to run a check. Just to see what it says. (Pause.) So, I think it's saying that in culmination it's over the total deviation of ten, that's in both directions. So, we got quite a bit of errors. Just because our numbers We've strayed a little bit but we're still under. The only district that we're—is 5 and 6 still. Where we're still above at five percent one way or the other. KOSSOW: We could offset it by going the opposite direction too. 67 HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: But that might be a little bit more lengthier of time. LUL Plus Council 5's too big so. KOSSOW: Yeah. Even if you brought Council 3 into Kea`au, in its original district. You would still have to offset going up to Council 2, then Council 1, Council 9. HUSTACE: Yeah, and you're shifting it back down. KOSSOW: And then you could yeah, yeah, exactly. But that's why I think it might be the plan that we have to do is that's how we're going to accommodate Council 6, I think. Is to bring it back up to the Kona side. So, we have to start from that side of Council 5 in order to accomplish that. LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Speaking away from the microphone.) KOSSOW: Yeah, we have to . LUL Is Kea`au split here? Or is it I can't. No. Oh, it's good. Okay. Thanks. LOPEZ: Is there any opportunity to take eight hundred to a thousand out of 5 into 4? HUSTACE: Out of which ones, Mr. Lopez? Out of 5 and 4? LOPEZ: Is there any opportunity, yeah. `Cause that's what I'm seeing on the chart. LUL That's true. It could give to 4. Yeah. LOPEZ: Any opportunities there? HUSTACE: Oh, I see. I see. Well, we could try this last portion of Hawaiian Paradise Park over here. And see where this puts us. (Pause.) So, in this case, it only has the back portion of Paradise Park is in 4 all of a sudden now. LOPEZ: The numbers are more palatable. HUSTACE: Yeah. LOPEZ: Now we have to deal with (indiscernible). HUSTACE: And not as many errors there. But if we calculate these up, this is one's still an issue here, Council 6. I think our guidance from Corp Counsel was that if we can defend this through our documentation and language, that it could be possible and doable. It's all on you, Chair. 68 LUL Well, in one consideration, it's just the geographical span of 6 is so huge. Adding more just makes it so hard for the rep. KOSSOW: Can you show the deviation for Council 2? HUSTACE: Council 2? KOSSOW: It's still at about nine hundred, right? HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: The thing I see is, if we did do the idea of going back around the northern side, taking one thousand to give to 6 on the other side, the problem about it is it goes back to where we were in regards to Honoli`i. It goes back to the boundary line for District 9, and the issue we had with Council 8. So, yeah. HUSTACE: If we're really set on Honoli`i as that kind of like, as your starting point more or less, then you're going to see that ripple go either way. Or go back and forth. We've had testimony about that area. We've had Commissioners vouching for this area. That they have more connectivity and interest in the Hilo area. KOSSOW: If we added more, it would actually take it more north, right? HUSTACE: Sorry. KOSSOW: It would take the district more north. LUL District 1, are you talking about? KOSSOW: No. Sorry, I'm talking about Council 2. LUL Oh, 2. HUSTACE: Further north? KOSSOW: Wait, wouldn't it goNo, no, you're right, you're right. Sorry. I got mixed up. HUSTACE: That's okay. LUL I meanoh, never mind. HUSTACE: Chair, are you hoping to ? You know, this one may even look better than the one we had previously. Are we hoping to kind of—Do you want to table this for a 69 discussion on the 9', the meeting on the 9h? Or we have this ready to go for our two public hearings? How far along did you want to be in the process, are you thinking? KOSSOW: The 9h will be a good buffer for us. And if it means to have all of the Commissioners here, then that might be best. I want to make sure that everybody has a voice into the Working Draft. But, there is a little bit more of aWe need to hurry this, hurry it up. I'm sorry. When was the meeting? It's on December 14'h and the 16''? HUSTACE: Yeah, that's correct. KOSSOW: So, the 9hIs Mr. Kauka still there? KAUKA: Chair, yes, I'm here. KOSSOW: Alright. What's the timing that we have? We have to ideally finish the draft by the 9h, correct? KAUKA: I'm glad you brought this up. So, Deputy Corporation Counsel and I were just having a conversation moments ago, sidebar, about this. Let me put it this way, the tentative dates we have for the public hearings are December 14 and 16. The notice for the public hearings would have to be posted six days in advance, which is December 8. The draft plan selected should be a part of that notice. KOSSOW: Of course, right. So, we're going to have to make a decision here today, unless we have a snap meeting next week. Which if we don't come out with a decision today, we're going to have to do it—We're going to have make a consideration for it in a meeting next week. I don't like to make a randomized meeting, but if we have to, then we should. What does the other Commissioners think? YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Yeah, I have a question first. So, right now as the district lines are drawn, we have an issue in District 6. All of the other districts, we can more or lesswe fall within the deviation, or the numbers, right? KOSSOW: Yes. YOSHINA: And District 6 is the one that we would have to defend verbally, in writing? KOSSOW: Theoretically, yes. YOSHINA: Okay. So, my (indiscernible) are, it would be easier for us to write a defense for one district, rather than nine. So, I would think about just accepting the plan. If you want a decision from me now, I would say accept the plan, the draft plan, as it is now. 70 And defend District 6. That's my suggestion. That's not a motion by the way. Just a suggestion. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes. I respectfully disagree. Only because we had the first map, we looked at today. We seemed to focus everything in agreement, except with Ms. Bath on District 4. And she needs time to give us an alternative on how to redesign District 4 and keep her need for HPP intact. So, I'd like to give her that time. Just because we have everything else in place and we do have, I think Mr. Yoshina's suggestion about this map, is also a good one. So, I would suggest that we give Ms. Bath some time and if she can't come up with an alternative, then we decide which of two plans. Right now, I'd rather meet next week and give her that time. She was pretty passionate about it, so I respect that. KOSSOW: So, did you suggest to put a meeting next week? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: Okay. LOPEZ: One, to give Ms. Bath time to design her District 4 need. And the other would be to sit down and really go through both these plans independently. And see which one do we prefer individually, and come together. It gives us a little more time, and I don't mind meeting next week to put this thing to bed. Thank you. I think if we tried to do it now, we may be rushing. I understand the need to rush, but we may not consider everything. Thank you. KOSSOW: Any other discussion regarding this? AKAMU: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: I do agree somewhat with Commissioner Lopez. About possibly adding another meeting,particularly one before the December 8h deadline, when we need to have things finished. I know we do have a meeting scheduled for December 91', which would be the day after we would need to get our plan finished for distribution. So, perhaps we can also consider adjusting that date. And maybe moving it to earlier in the week before the 8h. But I do agree that we probably need at least one more meeting before the 8h to work on finalizing the plans. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Is there anything else? LUL I like Mr. Akamu's suggestion. It's Commissioner Lui. Moving the date of the 91' up because we have to get this out by the 8h to the public. So, we could do it, either next 71 week, or we could do it on Monday or Tuesday of that week. But I don't know if that gives the Election Commission enough time to get it ready, but yeah. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. I think I hear just an overall consensus. So, if I can just have—Mr. Kauka, do you have any information as far as dates and times? KAUKA: Chair, sorry. We were having a discussion with staff. Can you repeat your question? KOSSOW: We're looking at moving the 0 meeting, to accommodate our Commission goal of the 8h filing deadline for us. So, I think we want to try and do that either Monday or Tuesday of December. LUL Commissioner Lui. I just have a question. You said the 8h was the deadline, but the first public meeting is the 14''. So, that's not there's not a week of notice there. KOSSOW: It has to be six days in advance, right? LUL Six day. Six working days? One, two, three. Is it working days or calendar days? KOSSOW: I think it's working days, but I'll have Scott clarify. HUSTACE: It may be different for the public testimony though. I don't know if that's a agendized meeting though. I'm not sure on that. LUL I mean, I just think from the public point of view, if you only found out on the 8h, and it was going to be in your half of the island on the 14'', that wouldn't give you a lot of time to plan to be there. Anyway. HUSTACE: That's true. AKAMU: Chair? LOPEZ: We should already be advertising those dates regardless. HUSTACE: I think we're ready to advertise for the 14'h and 16'h for sure. But, if we're going to shift our meeting on the 9h, I think we need to make a vote on that, or something. LUL Okay. LOPEZ: (Indiscernible) We need to have a meeting on Monday, December 7h. A day that will live in infamy. LUL Sixth(0). 72 LOPEZ: Sixth (6h)? Is it Monday, the 6t'? LUL Monday is the 6t'. LOPEZ: Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. LOPEZ: That's my motion. MELLON-LACEY: What we could do is recess this meeting without formally adjourning, and then resume the meeting on a date that is available. And there's been some talk of the 29', but I'm not sure about that date. Twenty-ninth (20) would work? (Staff responding away from the microphone.) Okay. I think we could do the 29t'. So, if we recess without adjourning, then we wouldn't have to notice again. KOSSOW: Thank you. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I think that's a good idea. So moved. KOSSOW: Okay. I don't think we need a motion. We can just do it based off of the Chair's recommendation. Okay, so is there any discussion regarding the draft? That's still the agenda item. `Cause if not, I'm going to go ahead and table. (No response.) Draft is tabled. NEW BUSINESS KOSSOW: Moving over to New Business. Mr. Kauka, if you want to read into the record New Business 1. KAUKA: New Business: 1. Discussion of public hearings following selection of draft plan Pursuant to Section 3-17(e) of the Hawaii County Charter, the Commission shall hold at least one public hearing in east Hawaii and one in west Hawaii. The Commission previosly adopted a timeline that projected tentative dates of the hearings for December 14 and 16. The Commission may discuss plans for these hearings, including but not limited to, establishing the dates, times, locations, logistics, advertising, and outreach efforts. 73 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. I would like to pass it on to Commissioner Hustace. Since he was the one that introduced this. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I just thought we would have just a moment to talk about this. We have those two dates scheduled. December 14th for west Hawaii and then the 16th for east Hawaii. I know we all probably have the capability of Zoom. I'm not sure to what extent our staff will allow the public in these spaces. I don't know how we're going to be handling that. But I think we'll use virtual technology to connect with people as well. But I also wanted to hear the thoughts from my fellow Commissioners on the times those days are scheduled. As well as having maps available for the public in a physical form, in each of the districts. In some way, some capacity. Whether they are printed, and available at public libraries, or something like that. So, I wanted to put those out there and kind of have a little discussion about this. So, basically about when during those days we should hold these testimonies, to get the most input, these public hearings. And then also having hard copies of maps for the public. Thank you. KOSSOW: Was there an allocation of funds to have it printed out? HUSTACE: I don't know if we've allocated anything for printing purposes. But we have yet to hear on our budget, so I think we do have some financial leverage to make that available for the public. KOSSOW: I think that's a good idea. Get as much information as we can to our community. Yeah. LOPEZ: As to time KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I sat in on, I think, all but two of the district meetings. And most of them, we waited. Waited, waited, waited, and didn't get testimony, most of them. But I would suggest we delay to 6:30 instead of 6:00. Gives people time to get home from work, get the kids adjusted, and maybe come out. I think that half hour would make a big difference in time, the dinner time, and such. Does it, 6:30? LUL Commissioner Lui. I agree with 6:30. That sounds fine. I would just say that we should just activate our ideas about spreading the word and getting the word out. We have a budget for that, so I would hope the Election Commission would make sure that that happens. I do think that the hard copies are good and important. It may be that would be a good thing for us to finish on the 29h, so that there would be time to print and distribute some. I know I went to look at the State maps at my library, and it was very helpful to be able to, even for me, who is used to these maps a little bit, to be able to see a hard copy rather than having to look for it online. So, I definitely feel like hard copies are something that people want. In fact, at the district meeting, the district public hearing for 74 my district,people were wanting to look at maps at that time, and they wanted to see something, you know, a hard copy. Thanks. I yield. LOPEZ: Another thought I had was to the newspaper advertising. I'd like to see a little more space, some color, and maybe a link to the maps that the public can view. To get them interested. And why this is important to them. The information given now isI mean, you have to search for it in the newspapers. It's not front and center as you're turning the pages. My suggestion would be to have a little more impact in our media presentation of the meeting. And a way people can go to the maps before the meeting. NAKAMOTO: Hi, this is Pat Nakamoto, the Elections Program Administrator. KOSSOW: Ms. Nakamoto. NAKAMOTO: Hi. Cori will be here to provide information on your budget, the expenditures up to this point. But there is funding to print maps and do advertising. With guidance from the Commission, as far as like what Mr. Lopez was talking about, if you let us know how we can do it a in half page ad. We can do a full-page ad. We can place the maps in the newspaper also. Depending on the size because if the maps are too small, then it's going to be difficult to see the details in the maps. If you folks want those large maps that was presented at the meeting that our staff took around the islands. We could do large maps. I think they're like three by five, or something like that. Or we could make smaller maps, but then again, the details will not be that visible. We can place them also in libraries in each district. If that's what you folks would like to see. So, all we need is, some guidance, some information telling us what you want. Before we start spending the money in the budget. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Nakamoto. Do you know, off the top of your head, how much a printing for the three by five was, of that map? NAKAMOTO: Off the top of my head, I don't know the exact cost, but I don't think it was very much. It might have been like twenty or thirty dollars, something like that. HUSTACE: I think it would be good at that size, but we have about I would throw a guess out—maybe like fifteen or so libraries on the island that we need to target. Somewhere around there. Is that about a good number? I don't know our library count on the island off the top of my head. So, we'd have to have one of those maps at each of them. NAKAMOTO: Okay. And when we do the final map, after you folks have made your decision, after the two public hearings, we can also create inset maps. We're not going to have time to do that now, I don't think. But that would show the details of where the boundaries intersect with each other. That's something we can think about doing down the road. But we'll look into how many libraries there are. And we'll place a map in each 75 district around the island. And we'll look at printing the larger maps, the three by fives. Would you all folks also want to have smaller maps? I know I mentioned that the detail wouldn't be that clear, but we could have something to hand out to the public, if that's what you folks would like also. HUSTACE: I think that's a good idea. I think we're seeing some nods for that, yeah. KOSSOW: We have twelve libraries. HUSTACE: Twelve libraries? KOSSOW: Yeah. NAKAMOTO: Okay. HUSTACE: I think Chair Kossow is looking it up on the State library site. KOSSOW: Yeah, twelve libraries. HUSTACE: Twelve libraries. LUL That's great, yeah. I don't know how many people are going to show up, but we may not need a whole lot of the smaller handouts. But I think those are helpful. I know just my having one of the old ones was helpful. I liked the idea of printing the map in the newspaper too, as part of the announcement for the public hearings, `cause that could definitely spark people's interest of our proposed map. I yield. NAKAMOTO: Okay. We can find out what the cost for a full-page ad or a half page ad, and then make a decision. KOSSOW: I think we're going to have to put a hold on that here soon. `Cause if we have the meetingI guess we're going to have it—yeah, you still need like a two weeks' notice for the newspaper ad. Sometimes this can be a little bit difficult so. What was the cost for the last one? I know you guys have a Communications here for it. NAKAMOTO: Yeah. Cori will be up to do that a little later. I don't have that information with me right now. KOSSOW: Alright. Thank you. NAKAMOTO: It might be in your folders. LUL Wow. It's just unfortunate our time is so tight. Because if we do get the map out on the 29h, but if we need two weeks to get it to the newspaper, it might not get out in time for the public hearings. And you know, our whole point here is to generate interest and get the public there. So, I'm a little, you know, not so happy about that. 76 YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I have a question. When we do create these final maps, is there a capacity to also label these maps, at least on the major lines? Because my experience is that,people like to know where the line is. KOSSOW: If I remember correctly, the map that was shown at the public hearing—I believe it described what road it went through or what stream it was on, if I'm not mistaken. If we can, we can get some more clarification on that. YOSHINA: Okay. 10-4. KOSSOW: Now before I forget, because the way this conversation kind of started was the time of the hearings. Now I got an overall idea that we wanted to do this at 6:00, versus the 5:30. Is that right? HUSTACE: Six-thirty (6:30) instead of 6:00, I think. Right? KOSSOW: Oh, 6:30. Okay. HUSTACE: Just a little bit later in the evening. I think the Commissioners were amenable to that. Just in hopes of getting people there at the end of the day. KOSSOW: And then, I know this is primarily online. Is there a physical site that we're doing this on? KAUKA: Chair? Excuse me. HUSTACE: Yes, Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: This is Dennis. Yeah so, we do have the Council Chambers reserved for the evening times for both dates. And the idea would also be to,just as we did for the first round of public hearings, have the virtual option island wide as well. KOSSOW: Thank you. HUSTACE: Yeah, Chair, I just wanted to kind of nail down a specific time so that when we publicize this information, it says 6:30. And we have a virtual capability or in person, is that what I'm understanding? KOSSOW: Yes, that's correct. 77 HUSTACE: Okay. But it'd be open to island wide for both of those, given a virtual setting? KOSSOW: Correct. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: Okay, so we got that one point down. The second point was, as we discussed, the outreach and logistical issues. As I understand it, we all kind of agreed on putting printed maps into the libraries. I got that. And then, we're obviously going to have some printed pamphlets at the meeting the public hearing. Was there anything else regarding things that need to be printed for the public? Before we move a little bit more into the logistics on advertisements. HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Maybe also having a printed copy in the physical spaces for those public hearings too. KOSSOW: Yeah, so twelve plus two. HUSTACE: Yeah. So that when, if attendees come in person, that it would be here for them as well. They can review it. KOSSOW: Yeah. The maps were you said it was a three by five? HUSTACE: I think so. Ms. Nakamoto stated three by five. Three feet, five feet. NAKAMOTO: I know it's three feet. I'm not sure exactly. HUSTACE: Three by four maybe? NAKAMOTO: Yeah, maybe three by four. KOSSOW: Three by four. Okay. NAKAMOTO: So, those are the maps that we would have printed, and we would take out to the libraries. What size would you folks want the handouts to be? KOSSOW: Eight and a half by eleven? I think that just basic printing it onto a regular page should be fine. NAKAMOTO: Okay. 78 KOSSOW: And you folks do all the printing in house, correct? NAKAMOTO: We could do the eight and a half by eleven in house. But the larger maps, we would need to take them out to be printed. KOSSOW: Okay. I see, I see. LOPEZ: I just got to suggest that, at the location of the public hearings, we have two maps. For social distancing and also people will gather around to be able to view them. KOSSOW: So, four maps? LOPEZ: Four,please. KOSSOW: So, that would be sixteen maps. LOPEZ: It becomes a concentration point. And be set up before the meetings so that they can look at them before we start. Yeah. HUSTACE: Like outside the Chambers. LOPEZ: Excellent. Right outside there. Take a look at them to their heart's content until they come in. Yeah. KOSSOW: So, twelve public libraries. We're going to do four for public testimony. HUSTACE: And Chair, if I may throw a wrench in there too. To somehow include the current map as well. Maybe not necessarily as a big three by four at the libraries, but on the handout, maybe one side is the map we draft, and then the current map on the backside with the deviations that show the skewness basically. KOSSOW: Oh, I see. So, you want the 2011 Commission map. HUSTACE: Just an idea. Just an idea. Just so that it shows the process we've gone through. LUL I second that idea. KOSSOW: You want into the pamphlet, not necessarily the (indiscernible), right? HUSTACE: Well, you know at the public testimonies, the public hearings we've had, there has been—with the majority of them, there was a three by four of the current map, right? That showed the skew of the population that we're trying to adjust to. So, I think just having that as a resource for viewers, either on the handout, or at the public hearings, gives them that kind of guide of what we're at now, where we have to go. Right now, it shows that skew. So, we have to—we're basicallySo, instead of having to repeat 79 ourselves and defend why we're making the changes, that map shows why we have to make the changes as well. It just gives another resource for that. KOSSOW: Okay. I was just thinking about it. We don't really need four for the public testimony, `cause there's two here and then take the same two over to the Hilo side. So, I'm brining that back down to two and maybe we just do two of the 2011 Commission. HUSTACE: It's just an idea to have that resource there. So, people know that, and be clear that it's marked. This is the 2011 one. This is the 2021 draft. YOSHINA: So, for clarification KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Mr. Hustace, you want the 2011 map with the numbers that accompany that map. And then we will have one map for the present Commission's adopted map. Just one map, right? Not two. `Cause I heard somewhere in this conversation, two. HUSTACE: Yeah, sorry to confuse you. So, if the library sites have one big map of the proposed change. But the handout, on one side has the proposed change, and then on the back side have the 2011 iteration with the deviations that we're trying to adjust for. YOSHINA: Okay. KOSSOW: I guess my main question would be, what is the turnaround time for this? Do we have to make a decision now? Or can we wait to our recessed meeting on the 27h?. NAKAMOTO: For printing the maps, I think waiting till the 27h would be fine. That gives up time before the public hearings. But we would like to get the maps out to the libraries as soon as possible. So, I think that gives us enough time. KOSSOW: Oh, I'm sorry. The 29h, is it? NAKAMOTO: Oh yeah. I think it was the 29h. Yeah, the 29h. KOSSOW: Sorry, about that. NAKAMOTO: So, once that final draft has been adopted, and that's the one we're going to take out on the road, then I think there should be enough time for us to have them printed. KOSSOW: Okay. Would you like us to approve the budget now? Allocation for it now? Or are you going to take it out of the funds that we approved? 80 NAKAMOTO: You know what, I'll go and find out from the printer, how much all of this will cost us. And then by the next meeting, I should have figures for you folks, and then we can make a decision then. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. I appreciate that. Is there any other discussion regarding 1 (one)? (No response.) Okay, we'll go ahead and move on to reports regarding the budget. REPORTS KOSSOW: Mr. Kauka, if you can read that into the record. KAUKA: Update on Commission budget The Commission may receive an update on its budget from support staff, address any questions, and explore options for use of funds. KOSSOW: Thank you. I think I see Cori from Elections in the Hilo Chamber. Cori, can you give us an update? SAIKL Okay. Right now, there is KOSSOW: Oh, could you put your mic just a little bit closer to you? Yeah. SAIKL There. Can you hear me? KOSSOW: A little bit better, yeah. SAIKL How's that? KOSSOW: Perfect. SAIKL Okay right now, we have $72,000 in the budget. That's the balance right now. But we also have some outstanding. We're waiting for an invoice from Pacific Media Group for the month of November advertisements for the November public hearings. And then, I've also contacted the Tribune-Herald and West Hawaii Today, and I got some quotes on that. Well, right now we have the online, you know the banner, on both newspapers. That will be approximately $1,300. And the quotes I got for running the newspapers ads, was going to be $2,200. But from what I've heard, you folks want bigger ads. And did you want full page ads with the map? KOSSOW: I think, Mr. Lopez, you kind of talked about doing maybe a full pager or a half pager with color? 81 LOPEZ: Well, if we're going to include the map, then I think we need the full page. Otherwise, the details just going to be obscured. SAIKL Okay. Well, I got a quote from Tribune-Herald for colored ads. And a quarter page ad that would run for a little over a week. The quote they gave me was going to be, the Hawaii Tribune-Herald, almost$10,000, and West Hawaii Today was $8,431. And that was just a quarter page ad. KOSSOW: That's for a whole week though, right? LOPEZ: Cori, do we need four days? Is that like the minimum quote? SAIKL Well, we just—to publicize the public hearings. So, we thought that we'd put it in from that Sunday, the 12'', December 12'', through Thursday, December 16''. And then it would cover both public hearings. LOPEZ: Oh, I see. It covers both sides that's why. Ouch. HUSTACE: That's 18,000? For four days, two papers. SAIKL Yes, approximately 18,000. HUSTACE: Four days, two papers, quarter page, right? SAIKL No. Originally, what I got from them was maybe two weeks prior. You know, the week before the public hearings, and then the week after. I mean, and the week of the public hearings. That was going to be approximately $18,000. And that's only a quarter page. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. Was there any update regarding the Facebook advertisements at all? SAIKL Okay, that I would need to ask maybe, Dennis. KAUKA: Chair, it's Dennis. We're working with Clerk staff to—are you asking about the public hearings? KOSSOW: Yeah. KAUKA: Yes. That will also be posted as well, as we've been doing so. And they're still working out. They've been in discussion with yourself, and Vice Chair Hustace, on the logistics of boosting and keeping that continuously posted. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Do we have any other questions? Mr. Lopez. 82 LOPEZ: May I make a request to Cori, please. If it'sI hate to put too much on you but, it would be good, I think, for me, maybe for all of us, to know what would be the cost in the newspaper, as we've discussed, of a half page or a full page, both in black and white, and in color. SAIKL Okay. LOPEZ: And then we have a—kind of a, dart board to shoot at. SAIKL Okay. So, either a half page or—We'll I get a quote for half page and a full page. LOPEZ: Both. Yeah, one in color and one just plain black and white. SAIKL Yes. LOPEZ: Thank you. Thank you very much. SAIKL Okay. KOSSOW: Alright. Any other discussion? SAIKL Mr. Lopez, it's Cori again. LOPEZ: Yes. SAIKL What were you thinking about the duration of the ad being in the paper? LOPEZ: Oh, that's a good question. I thought of this, but I didn't verbalize it. Personally, I just think we need to run it the week of the public hearings. Like you said, Sunday through Thursday. SAIKL Sunday through Thursday. Okay. LOPEZ: But I'm not definitive. I'm just giving you, my feedback. Chair, did you agree with that? Sunday through Thursday, the week of the public hearings, instead of two weeks. KOSSOW: Yeah, I think that might be better. Sunday through Thursday. Okay, any other discussion regarding the updated Commission budget? (No response.) We're going to go ahead and move on to announcements. ANNOUNCEMENTS KOSSOW: Mr. Kauka, I'll have you do the announcements. 83 KAUKA: Chair, thank you. So, we should announce that the Commission has decided to—we're going to resume this meeting. Reconvene on Monday, November 29, at 9:30 a.m. The next regular meeting of the Commission, currently scheduled after that, would be Thursday, December 9. And just, we regularly announce that archived videos of past Commission sessions as of the September 23 meeting, are available on the Commission's YouTube channel. Which can be linked to or searching "COH Redistricting" on YouTube. That's all the announcements that staff has, Chair. KOSSOW: Before I head over to recess until the 29h, I would like to congratulate Mr. Akamu for being the Ka`u-Kea`au-Pahoa Complex area finalist. I don't think we need a motion to recess, but I'm just going to say, recess until November 29h at 9:30 a.m. Here at the West Hawaii Civic Center, and the Aupuni Center in Hilo. Thank you guys. Have a great day. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? I have one question just for clarification. KOSSOW: Go ahead. YOSHINA: These maps that we worked on today, are they going to be posted somewhere? KOSSOW: It should be posted online on the ESRI site. YOSHINA: Okay. And so,just for clarification again, what are the titles of these things? `Cause I got all confused here. KOSSOW: I'll pass that over to Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I will submit these maps or see if I can submit them. So that they're available to everyone. Or I think I might be able to share them with everyone. So, it may show up as a shared map. But there was the eleven—They're given by the date, first of all, and there's the Working Doc 1 and the Working Doc 2. So, the ones that we edited today in our meeting, are now titled Working Doc 1-1 and Working Doc 2-1. So, those are the ones that we made our edits to live today. Thank you. YOSHINA: Thank you. KOSSOW: Alright. Thank you everybody. LUL See you Monday. KOSSOW: Happy Thanksgiving! ADJOURNMENT None. 84 Respectfully Submitted, Nicole Bello, support staff to the Commission 85