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WATANABE: Cause I’m not sure you want to make that call on the fly. Does that satisfy <br />you? <br />IWASHITA: Sorry I made work for you, Ivan. <br />WATANABE: I beg your pardon? <br />IWASHITA: Just apologies to Ivan on the record. <br />WOODWARD: Mr. Chairman? <br />WATANABE: Yes, Mr. Woodward. <br />WOODWARD: If I might have one question. If we change the language on this, do we <br />have to bring it back here again? I mean it has to go to Kona. If we change the language does it <br />have to come back here? <br />WATANABE: It may, yeah. It may if the language is, I would say, substantive, a <br />substantive change. It sounds like it may not really be a substantive change, if anything. <br />WOODWARD: Thank you. <br />WATANABE: And, again, I’m not sure that it would even come about at this point. I <br />would leave it up to the experts. <br />WOODWARD: That would be Mr. Torigoe’s call, I would think. <br />ALAMEDA: Mr. Chair? <br />WATANABE: Yes, Mr. Alameda. <br />ALAMEDA: Just one final thought on my end. So if the Board of Appeals, how many <br />members on the Board of Appeals? <br />YUEN: Seven. <br />ALAMEDA: Okay. And if their job primarily is to keep the Director in check from <br />running amok, they wouldn’t consider this action on the Director’s part as part of running amok, <br />or would they embrace this action on your part, Mr. Director? <br />YUEN: Well, the Board of Appeals still has jurisdiction over the violation. So if <br />they think it’s not a violation, they can reverse the violation; and then there’s no violation and <br />there’s no fine. The person can also appeal, for example, the amount of the fine. They typically <br />appeal the whole idea of the violation. But the Board of Appeals can modify the Director’s <br />decision if, again, following the standard of review. If they find that it’s arbitrary, capricious, <br />violates the law, a clearly erroneous decision, they can reverse or modify the Director’s decision. <br />This doesn’t take away that power from the Board of Appeals. All it does is if the Board of <br />Appeals actually sustains the Director’s decision then the person who has done the violation, if <br /> EXHIBIT D <br />5 <br /> <br />