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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-12-17 Redistricting Commission minutes (10th Session) 2021 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION I Oh Session Friday, December 17, 2021 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 ATTENDANCE: Present: Ms. Lehuanani Ah Nee, Commissioner (via Zoom) Mr. `Rina Akamu, Commissioner(via Zoom) Ms. Stephanie Bath, Commissioner Mr. James Hustace, Vice Chairperson Mr. Bronsten-Glenn Kossow, Chairperson Mr. Stephen Lopez, Commissioner Mr. Meizhu Lui, Commissioner(via Zoom) Mr. Dwayne Yoshina, Commissioner Also Present: Debbie Ka`ahanui-Hoyohoy, Elections Assistant Diana Mellon-Lacey, Deputy Corporation Counsel Dennis Kauka Jr., Legislative Specialist/ Secretary CALL TO ORDER: KOSSOW: Aloha and welcome to the 10h Session of the County of Hawaii Redistricting Commission. Today is Friday, December 17'', 2021. My name is Bronsten Kossow and I'm the Chairperson. First, I'd like to go through an announcement. Because of the Coronavirus COVID-19 emergency and State and Federal guidance on large meetings or gatherings and pursuant to the Mayor's proclamations regarding COVID-19, the Redistricting Commission meetings are currently not open to the public to attend in- person until further notice. Members of the public may view or provide oral testimony via the Zoom platform by requesting for this information as noticed on the posted agendas. Thank you for your understanding. Calling this meeting to order. The time is 9:44 a.m. ROLL CALL KOSSOW: Mr. Kauka,please call the roll. KAUKA: Commissioner Lui, (Chair Kossow says excused), Commissioner Yoshina, "Here, in Hilo," Commissioner Ah Nee, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Yadao, (Chair Kossow says excused), Commissioner Bath, "Present, Hilo Chambers," Commissioner Akamu, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Lopez, "Present, Kona Chambers," Commissioner Hustace, "Present, Kona Chambers," Chair Kossow, "Here, Kona." Thank you, Chair. You have seven members in attendance. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. As a reminder, during the meeting, we are working with Commissioners in multiple locations. The audio of the meeting is being recorded so as much as possible, let's try to avoid overtalk as that will make it difficult to later transcribe in the minutes. Please keep your microphones on mute unless you are speaking. And we ask that for members of the public who are tuned in as well. Commissioners in either Chamber, your microphone can be activated by pressing the button at the base. I won't be able to recognize you if the audio is not coming through so be sure to check if that's on first when speaking. Since I'm presiding from Kona, Commissioners here with me, please turn on your light on and get my attention to be recognized. For those in Hilo or on Zoom, please speak out your name if you need to be recognized, and I will do my best to navigate the conversation. After I recognize you, please state your name for the recording transcription and proceed. If you don't state your name first, I will interrupt you to clarify who is speaking on the minutes. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS KOSSOW: Mr. Kauka, we'll head over to any public testimony that is available. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. Our first testifier is Mr. Jacob Aki from Common Cause Hawaii. Mr. Aki, you may unmute yourself. You'll have three minutes. 2 JACOB AKI AKL Aloha. Thank you Chair, Vice Chair, and members of the Reapportionment Commission. My name is Jacob Aki on behalf of Common Cause. We did submit written testimony ahead of today's hearing. But we did want to highlight just a few things from our written testimony. First, given the large number of testifiers at the December 14'h and December 16'h hearings, Common Cause encourages the Commission, and we are confident that you folks will be considering the public testimonies as you folks work to revise the redistricting maps. There were a larger number of testimony regarding the Hawaiian Homestead areas in Hilo, Pana`ewa, as well as other sections on the west side. So, we hope that those comments and those testimony from the public will be taken into consideration as you folks deliberate on the maps. Secondly, we did testify on this previously but, we would recommend that Charter Section 3-17(e) be changed to revise the Commission's public hearing process. While we appreciate the Charter's mandate to hold at least one public hearing in each of the nine council districts prior to a draft coming out, we believe that that these hearings should not be conducted in each of the nine districts until a draft plan has been created and approved by the Commission. So, we hope that as you folks also think about final recommendations, that this recommendation be considered. That's all the testimony that we have for today, Chair. I am here if there are any questions. Thank you. KAUKA: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Aki. Chair, our only other testifier is Ms. Brenda Ford. Ms. Ford, if you have any comments to offer now, but I know Ms. Ford has also indicated she may want to provide testimony during other parts of the agenda. Ms. Ford? BRENDA FORD FORD: Thank you very much. I would prefer to testify at the end or during the proceeding, should anybody have questions for me. But I'd prefer to talk at the end as far as my personal testimony. I do suggest though, as I'd suggested last Tuesday night, that you clean up the east side. Pana`ewa Hawaiian Homelands needs to be straightened out. I do not think it's necessary to split Hawaiian Paradise Park. I submitted a plan that shows that it could be done without doing that. The west side of my plan is disgusting, and I think we need to work on that. But your plan that is up for the draft, I think has a very good start, but I think you can clean it up a whole lot more. Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Ford, this is Bronsten. Would you be available throughout the whole meeting? FORD: I will, Mr. Bronsten. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. KAUKA: Chair, that completes our testifiers at this time. 3 APPROVAL OF MINUTES October 28, 2021 6th session KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. We're going to move over to the approval of the minutes. Can I get a motion to approve? (During this time, Mr. Kauka confirmed that Commissioner Lui logged into the Zoom room. Commissioner Lui informed the Commission that she will be leaving the meeting momentarily.) Mr. Hustace moved to approve the minutes of the October 28, 2021, meeting. Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. The motion to approve the minutes of the October 28, 2021 meeting was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Akamu, Bath, Lopez, Lui, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Motion carries. NEW BUSINESS KOSSOW: Alright, hop over to new business. New business number 1, Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: New Business: 1. Final Redistricting Plan On November 29, 2021, as a reconvening of its November 23, 2021 —8h session, the Commission approved its draft redistricting plan by vote. Pursuant to Hawaii County Charter Section 3-17(e), public hearings on the draft plan were then conducted on December 14 and December 16, 2021. During its December 9, 2021 —9h session, the Commission postponed discussion of further considerations to its draft redistricting plan. The Commission may consider any adjustments and approval of a final plan. Hawaii County Charter Section 3-17(d) requires the Commission to file a redistricting plan by December 31. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Commissioners, first of all, thank you everybody for those who came out to the public hearings and got to listen to the public. And big mahalo to the public for coming out. We really got to hear how they would like to see their 4 communities. And so, going into this final redistricting plan, I would like to—We have a couple of proposals. We have one from Mr. Hustace. We have a map by Mr. Lopez. But I also, based off of the testimony that we received, I would also like to additionally add the working draft number 1, and Ms. Ford's map. Now that I know Ms. Ford is on, we can also talk to her about that map. This is just going to be a presentation. There's not going to be any changes. You may ask questions and discussions through, as we look into these maps in the first part. And then we can go back to our regular working draft. Alright? So, this portion would just be the presentation and I'll start with Mr. Hustace. And then we'll go to Mr. Lopez. LUL Can I just put in something before I have to sign off for a while? It's Commissioner Lui. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I feel like the intent of doing this is to have fair representation as seen from the eyes of the public. Given that, I feel like we should get more (indiscernible, audio breaking up) possible, but to make the public as happy—(indiscernible, audio breaking up). KOSSOW: I'm sorry, Ms. Lui, we kind of lost you and you were breaking up a little bit. Do you mind repeating that? LUL (Indiscernible, audio breaking up)—or under each district. Let's be creative with maybe going to those numbers, as opposed to trying to get it, you know, under two or whatever. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Okay. Does anybody else want to comment on this? (No response.) Okay, Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I just want to echo your sentiments too. I want to mahalo you, Chair, the commissioners, the testifiers that came out this week, and as well as our staff that supported us during this period. I did a lot of thinking. Received a lot of phone calls, emails, this week. And looking at the map of what we proposed, it really validates my previous thoughts about change being hard for people. I did submit a map, and I will project it up on the screen here. It doesn't tackle some of the testimony and some of the issues that we brought up early on. I can dive into those very specifically here on the screen. But the map really revisits, and it almost goes back to what we currently live in, in our current district lines and boundaries with slight changes around the edge. So, I'm going to put that up on the screen here. If I may, Chair? KOSSOW: Go ahead. HUSTACE: As the Chair mentioned, this is just proposing ideas and kind of talking and having discussion about this. BATH: Commissioner Bath. 5 KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Did you say you had this submitted? That we could look on this on our computers? HUSTACE: That's correct, Ms. Bath. I submitted this one after hearing testimony, primarily from Tuesday evening. I didn't have enough time last night, after our meeting, to add any other changes after that. So, welcome other thoughts on that. So, this map is called, when I submitted it, it had a different title, and I think Mr. Jones changed the title, and it did lose my description on there, unfortunately. So, if you go into Shared PlansIt should be under Shared Plans, let me see. I'm not seeing it there though . Yes, it is there, it's called, COH CoH Draft Plan - JH 4. Then the description says, submitted by myself on the 15''. BATH: Got it. Thank you. HUSTACE: So, that wasn't the name of the title, and that wasn't my description, unfortunately. But that is the map I'll be kind of proposing here. That make sense? It's this one here, it's called COH CoH Draft Plan - JH 4. Okay. So, I do have that up on the screen. As it was submitted, it's a read-only file. So, any other changes, we'll have to save the map again. It's not perfect. The map that we proposed, so not this one but the one that people testified on, was not perfect. I wasn't that happy with it either. I don't think all the commissioners were sold on it. And even this map here that proposes other changes, I think there are other edits that could be made. So, I would like to start by saying that this map does not, like I said, it revisits a lot of the district, the current district lines, so I'll put that up on the screen as well. So, the yellow hash mark lines you see there, are the current boundary lines. And it really moves the districts back as close as possible to those district lines where reasonable. Now this map doesn't, this proposal does not take into consideration some of the areas and some of the testimony received. So, for example and unfortunately, in the testimony in the public hearings, I don't think people saw the effect that one change made on the east side of the island caused a cascade effect across the island. So, we had received testimony. We had numerous discussions about the line for District 2 along Honoli`i Stream. And that change, for the sake of the testimony we received, really caused a cascade effect around the island. And it moved, as you know, District 1 further into Waimea. Waimea had to move further south. And the testifiers really were focused on their district, and that's completely understandable. We each really know our area well and what works and what doesn't work. But that one change, it did ruffle a lot of feathers. And I don't they were looking at that particular area, they were looking how it affected their area. I think what Commissioner Lui was saying, is that we're trying not to ruffle as many feathers as possible and try to make slight changes. And we had this conversation before in many of our previous meetings about making small, little changes where possible. So, this map pushesSo, I can start here in the Hilo area. It does bring back that line to Wailuku River. It seemed to have caused the most cascade effect by moving that line. I welcome other thoughts on this. I did push Hilo closer to Kanoelehua for a more contiguous shape 6 in that area. But it still maintains its shape for the most part and goes up into the center of the island. And it does encapsulate P6hakuloa Training Area. But as you can see, and as you zoom in on your maps, and you see the maps,this does follow the district lines that people are very familiar with, that they are comfortable with, and just makes slight changes around the edge. So, that kind of reverts back there. So, it kind of keeps—and I'll revisit the north side of the island in a little bit. But, for a lot of the testimony we received on Tuesday night, about the proposed map, this one here brings Kalaoa back in to District 8. So, all of Kalaoa, everything north of Kaiminani, is back into District 8. And there's a very clearI know it's a jagged line, but it's a very clear line that breaks 8 and 9. It would just be on the north side of the Pu`u Anahulu area. So, that's where the clear line is on this proposed. That line does shift down. You can see the yellow line. That is the current one. And this map shows this one a little bit further south here. And it's not really much of a change in that area, but it is maybe a cleaner line, and welcome to thoughts on that. We've had—and moving into the urban core of Kona, we had—and I do need to change the color of the ocean out here to be more yellow to match its land counterpart. But this does incorporate most of—and thank you, Chair, for submitting the business district plan for Kona. I know the current map goes a little bit further along Old A's, old Kona airport. This map proposed here, brings back Kona Bay and Alii Drive into Council 7 as we've heard testimony on. Now moving just a little further south, this is where it does change a bit. In trying to get those numbers for Council 6, and at least bringing them back a little bit, that Council 6 took Kealakekua. Now that being said, because it shifted further into Kona, and we had conversations and testimony about that. About Ka`u district being more aligned with the Kona side and some of the water sheds and so forth, and the mountain ranges. That allowed to give Council 5 most of its current boundary and more back. So, this area outside Glenwood, if I'm not mistaken, this area here, could go back into Council 5 as the previous commission wasn't able to do. There could be some slight changes around here, like this area could go back into Council 5. As you see the current boundary and it crosses over. Now as our commissioner from Puna said that trying to keep all of Council 4 together, and Kalapana and Kapoho. Welcome to some thoughts about Wao Kele O Puna Forest Reserve and shifting that again to give Pahoa its two council members. That's a possibility. I'd have to look at the numbers again. And HPP, it is split. This is a change that needs to be made here, and we need to talk about this as a possibility about they'd have to cross back into another district to get back into the district. So, we need to make a slight change there. And then lastly, going back around, this brings Pana`ewa back into Council 3. So, Pana`ewa, Keaukaha, are all in one district. The last thing I want to say about this, and I'll bring up the numbers here so you can see the deviations. They're pushing it a little bit on some areas, but giving Council I primarily, and if we could give Council I a little bit more wiggle room too, as well as Council 6, these areas are very rural areas, communities are spread out. So, it may be best to keep them at a negative count just for the reason of representation. So, that individuals are more connected with that representative, and that council member. That they're not, you know, we're not putting too many in those rural spread-out areas. But rather, they are actually a little bit more overrepresented. It's a counterintuitive when it's a negative number. When it's a negative number, those individuals would be a little bit more overrepresented. Their ratio to their council member is greater. So,just wanted to put that out there. Thank you, Chair. 7 KOSSOW: Questions and discussion. YOSHINA: Chair, this is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I have a question. Because we have public comment about, I think from one person who said that Wainaku being in Council 2, this is the proposed plan. He was very happy with that. I'm okay with the idea of going back to Wailuku River, but I would also like to consider a little movement of that northward to include that person who said that they are happy to see that Wainaku was in Council 2 now. Because for the last reapportionment, he was in Hamakua, and he said he felt no connection with Hamakua. So, I'm not certain where that would be, but if we could maybe jog that line north a little bit, I could live with that. And the second question I have for Mr. Hustace is, if we go to Wailuku River, does that put all of Pi`ihonua into one district? That's all I have. I yield. HUSTACE: Sorry, Mr. Yoshina. Could you restate that question? Sorry, I lost the one word you said there. Which community? YOSHINA: Pi`ihonua. HUSTACE: Oh, Pi`ihonua. So, Pi`ihonua in the map, and I'll put it up on the screen here. Pi`ihonua is currently, like as of where our maps are now, is in Council 2, and this would maintain that. YOSHINA: Okay, but you know, Pi`ihonua has some people on the north side of Wailuku River, and some on the south side of the river. The reason I liked Honoli`i was that it included that whole area into Council 2. And we had comments on that, written andI don't know if they came to the public hearing, but we have written statements about keeping both Pi`ihonua together. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Yeah, this one, as I mentioned, this doesn't—it brought us back to the Wailuku River and it doesn't take into consideration the testimony received about Wainaku. This census block causes problems here though, unfortunately. YOSHINA: Yeah. I understand that, but if there's some way of including all of Pi`ihonua into one district, that would meet some of the requirements that I have. And by the way, that's the reason why I asked for movement of that boundary line. A little northward to maybe Wainaku Stream or Kaiwiki Stream or something like that. And I understand about the boundary lines, but the block boundaries. But if we did that, then I think I, you know, I would be in agreement. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Like I said, this map isn't perfect for me either. So, I'm going to jump to—I forgot to talk about where the boundary is for 1 and 9. Yeah, this doesn't take into consideration that part of Pi`ihonua. And I would like to see some 8 possible changes. There's this one census block that really prohibits some change and we have to deal with that. It's this really terrible block. And I'm not happy about this either. We had—There is no way for us to put all of Waimea, all of North Kohala, and all of Waikoloa Village in one district. The numbers are too great. So, somewhere, somehow, Waimea has to be split. And I don't think some of the testifiers understood that. So, it has to be split. And I'm not happy with this change. It brings back part of 9 back towards the original line. It does have to take some of it to give Council 1 just a little bit more edge. But these census blocks here along the edge have a lot of people and would skew that number a bit more. But we can tinker with a little bit. The reason and impetus for this east side of Waimea,just as Mr. Yoshina said for those individuals that live in Wainaku area, they felt that maybe they didn't feel represented. It's the same case for east Waimea. These people live on the edge of Council 1. There's a big distance between Waimea and Honoka`a, the next town over. And so, this edge of Waimea, they kind of feel left out. They always have felt left out in this east side of Waimea. And so the impetus for pushing further into Waimea was to give them greater representation and a stronger voting voice there. And, I'm happy to go back to some of these, where people are more comfortable. What people have been used to for ten years. It doesn't take into account some of the bigger changes that maybe need to be made and rethought about. And change is hard for people. Bigger changes are hard for people. Thank you. YOSHINA: So, James, this is Dwayne again. I appreciate the work done. Constructurally [sic], it's a good idea. And I can go out and talk to these guys, but Pi`ihonua is one area that we need to remember. And on the south side of District 2, I'm not sure what the numbers would be. I think we're over now. It would be a plus percentage over now. So, I was going to suggest that we might be able to move some of the areas on the south side of District 2, from 3 into 2 to make more room for Pana`ewa, but I guess you took care of that. So far, I'm good. Thank you. HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. KOSSOW: Any further discussion for Mr. Hustace? BATH: Stephanie Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: James, I am really appreciative of the work you put into this. This was very thoughtfully done. And the fact that you did it in such a short period of time, taking into consideration the testimonies, I cannot thank you enough for your work. I've only just started to overlay the different testimonies. If I may, I'd like to give you some input into your product here. As far as Wao Kele O Puna being put back into District 5, I think that it's fine where it is. The fact that it's labeled District 4 doesn't change its access or the spirit that it has on the Fern Acres and Hawaiian Acres communities primarily. So, I think that it's fine to keep it in there. I'd like to suggest putting Kaloli Point, I believe it's two-hundred and four(204)residents in Hawaiian Paradise Park, back into Paradise Park. Because the Kaloli Point community was split up. And I don't think it'll change the name 9 significantly, and it'll ease the—what the trauma of the change for HPP. I don't know any other way to do this without taking some of HPP and splitting it, unfortunately. So, that would be my recommendation down there. Upper Puna, I think that this is reasonable. I'd like to hear Ka`u's thoughts on it. Volcano Village and those subdivisions were hoping to go back in upper Puna, but as I've explained to the people I've spoken with, if each district gives a little from the top and the bottom, we can do this. And I think that this is reasonable for now,provided that Ka`u is okay with it. I have a concern for Hamakua because they're getting some urban from the south, and then they're getting some of Waimea and that area. But I think there's really no other way to do it unless anybody else has a thought on it. Everybody's giving and this is what I was seeking to have a unity, and you've captured this. At least for Districts 3, District 4, District 5, and District 6, that I know better than the northern western Hawaiian districts. So, I want to thank you for this and just make the suggestions and the tweaks that I have. Mahalo. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. YOSHINA: Chair, this is Dwayne. I have a question. KOSSOW: Go ahead, Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Mr. Hustace, at the end of our last work session, I had suggested the movement of some of District 2 into District 3. Does this map reflect that? Or what was this map before that? You know, the mauka area of Haihai Street, I think. HUSTACE: This map was generated after Tuesday's testimony, so it was pretty recent. Part of Haihai Street remains in Seat 3, but some of it shifted into Seat 3 as well. YOSHINA: You know, I would request that that revision I had made, or suggested, be put back into District 2. Since we're already plus on District 2. I think one side of Haihai is in District 3, and the other side should all be in District 2. HUSTACE: In this one here, most of it is in Seat 3. And then with this map, both Seat 2 and Seat 3 are in the positive. Just around five percent over. YOSHINA: Right. Okay so, let me check on that and get back to you,just to make sure that I have not forgotten some people. Thank you. HUSTACE: Thank you. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. 10 BATH: Just one more thing that I noticed. If you go to the border between District 5 and District 3, Stainback Highway, there are three census blocks, actually there are four census blocks, three of them are zeros. I think that it would be appropriate to move those into District 5 because there's discussion about the Stainback Highway as being a redundancy route. So, I think that would make more sense than having it at North Road. Anyway, yeah move it from North Road to Stainback Highway. Just those three blocks. HUSTACE: Okay. I'll take a note of that. Thank you, Commissioner. BATH: Okay. I yield. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? AH NEE: Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee. AH NEE: I just want to agree with Commissioner Bath about the potential of Stainback Highway being in District 5,just looking at the urban contour and the suburban contour of that space. So, I do want to support that. I yield. KOSSOW: Mahalo, Ms. Ah Nee. Any other discussion? (No response.) Thank you, Mr. Hustace, for introducing this map and having us discuss it with it. We're going to move over to Mr. Lopez's map. I'll pass it over to Mr. Lopez. You just want to wait until Mr. Hustace posts it on top of the Zoom platform here. I'm sorry. What was the name of—the title of your map? LOPEZ: Draft Plan Fix Kalaoa and KVBID. KOSSOW: Thank you. HUSTACE: Okay, Mr. Lopez. I've shared your map. It's called, Draft Plan Fix Kalaoa and KVBID. So, this is the map that Mr. Lopez has shared with everyone. Did you submit this one, Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Yes, I did. On Thursday, waiting for all public testimony to be completed so as not to bias any conversation. The message was loud and clear. Well, I call it the vocal minority. Because of the tens of thousands of people that are involved in this, I would say, maybe a half dozen in District 8 really came out and voiced their concerns. So, I applaud them for that. The two issues were Kalaoa and the Kailua Village Business Improvement District(KVBID). So, what I did in addressing those concerns, was move Kalaoa from District 9 into District 8. Which is what they loudly wanted. That created a census block move of about just under sixteen hundred (1,600)people. So, that blew the numbers all to hell. Some of the testimony said, by doing these two changes, you would introduce some small changes around the island. Well, that clearly communicates to me, there's a lack of understanding of what we're trying to do. And I have to give them credit 11 because they don't know all the details that we know. All the parameters that we operate under. So, they can just speak viscerally and request things, but these are not small changes as it impacts our maps. So, looking at my map there, you can see I put Kalaoa all in District 8. Then I got a copy of the Kailua Village Business Improvement District, which begins just behind Kona Commons, or right where the border of Queen Lili`uokalani Park is, and goes up to the courthouse, and clear down to the resort area of where Walua Road branches out. Many of you don't know what I'm talking about, and that's the same thing I feel, obviously when we're talking about things on the east side, I'm not familiar. And I'm not presumptuous enough to be able to tell you how your district lines should be. I compliment Mr. Hustace, because he has a much greater knowledge of these neighborhoods across the island than I do, but I can't go there. So, I can only offer District 8 and hope that individually, you as Commissioners, are addressing the needs of your communities. So, looking at this map, you see the upper area. The Kailua Village Business Improvement District is a line not associated with census blocks. It is a line of business, where the business district is bordered. But, when you go and move the Business District into District 7, which is what was requested, you move census blocks, as you know. So, that's why these areas are much bigger than really the Business District is. And it proceeds down what I try to do, and I've tried to do all along, is protect the urban core, the traditional core, of Kailua in District 8. Which is where the seat of the west side is. I didn't want District 8 to become a bedroom community, as I saw on the map we just looked at. And it really goes back to the same map, same appearance, that Chair Kossow introduced which I had objected to, taking the heart of Kailua-Kona out and making us a bedroom community. So, I see we've gone back to that in the last map, and I'm trying to maintain that aspect. It goes to many of the conversations and many of the testimony about keeping people together in common interests and common needs and common accessibility and so on. So, I offer this map as a consideration to address the two points that came out. One, keep Kalaoa together because the southern border of that Kalaoa area is where the dividing line was in our draft plan, between District 9 and District 8. And it put them in District 9. Well understandably, the population of that census block is primarily in the south. So, to put which end and their proximity to Kailua town, is much stronger than their relationship to Waimea. So, it made perfect sense. Although, it killed our deviations, it makes perfect sense to put them in District 8. Likewise, the Business Improvement District is presently under the leadership of District 7. And so, it didn't make sense to break that up into District 8 and District 7. So, I agree with that change also. And that's the purpose of my focus in this area of the island to address those concerns. And I ask you to consider this as you progress through the final map. Now what it does do, this one, it increased the deviation in District 8 from a minus 0.89 to a plus 3.79. Which, you know, we're still acceptable range. For D7, it went from a minus 4.99 I believe, to a plus 6.53. So, I have to leave it to District 7 to understand what changes they may want to make. And District 9 got nuked. It went from a deviation of, I don't remember what it was, acceptable. And now it's at minus fourteen (14)percent. But in looking at this, I thought, well, maybe this gives room for District 9 to recover those parts of Waimea that the public really wants to see kept in 9. And the domino effect, of course, we all deal with, it's going to extend around the island. But it may also give District 6 the ability to bring Volcano back over to the Puna side and alleviate. From what I understand, the problem was District 6 is 12 representation across two hours of distance. So, again, I offer this map, again strictly focused on the testimony for District 8, my district, how it affects District 7, and perhaps yield some flexibility for the other districts with the changes in deviation. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. If I can just comment. I do thank you for your compromise too. In the draft plan you brought, you did take a hit bringing District 9 into Kalaoa. And then some of the other changes that we had made. So, I really, really appreciate that. As for the testimony that we received regarding the Business Improvement District, I do agree with that since the council member does primarily sit on that board. There was a Communications that I sent out to everybody that included the map if you want to take a little bit more of a look into that. I think that is probably the, one of the best things we can do to accommodate it, based off of the deviations. And it sucks that based off of the census blocks, obviously. `Cause now, you know, it climbs up into the—What is that area called? Is that Lili`uokalani? Is that Lili`uokalani area on the mauka portion? LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Talking away from the microphone.) KOSSOW: Subdivision. LOPEZ: Well, it's a children's park. KOSSOW: Yes. Okay. LOPEZ: Right behind the Ross. KOSSOW: Right, right, right. So, when you drive up through Henry Street, to the top right, this big census block right there, going up Palani Road, is like one portion of it that's absolutely nothing. And then a neighborhood on the far top part. And that connects down and then the bottom portion is in the Business Improvement District. So, I understand why you put that in there. Yeah, this part is going to be very difficult for us, I think. Mr. Hustace, if you can scroll down. Yeah, that's Nani Kailua. Yeah, this one is going to be very difficult,just in general. But I would like to work with you on that to see how we can do that. And of course, it's going to affect District 9, Mr. Hustace. And it's going to affect Mr. Akamu. So, I think it's going to—Mr. Akamu's district is probably going to head more northward. And then Mr. Hustace's is probably going to head more towards Waimea, I'm thinking at least. LOPEZ: So, to your comment about that upper right area. Just to clarify, the Business District down to the south of that point, it goes into that census block. So, either you don't include that in the KVBID, or you include it in District 7. So, you don't have a choice if you're going to include the Business District as, in District 7. It's got to go. KOSSOW: Yeah, it's a tough one too. 13 LOPEZ: Oh yeah! I mean, I don't like the map. That's an ugly map. But, trying to satisfy the powers that be. HUSTACE: Chair, question. KOSSOW: Go ahead, Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: This is a question for Mr. Lopez and you, Chair. In a case like this, with this large census block that touches down on its mauka portionI'm sorry, makai portion in the Business District, and then more residential up on the mauka area, is this a census block that would be worth adding to our irregular block list for submission to State Elections and Census Bureau? KOSSOW: Yeah, I think so. Mostly because one portion of it is like all business, and the other portion is all homes. HUSTACE: Okay, thank you. LOPEZ: In looking at that map, I don't—Can you zoom in? Because I don't see any streets inside there, like subdivisions, homes. I see the number. There they are, up at the north end. So, there's where our population is. So, there's a lot of just empty land between that and where the Business District zone comes in. So, to answer your question, Mr. Hustace, yes, I agree. This is ugly. KOSSOW: I wonder if taking the bottom portion of Ane Keohokalole Highway, where that one hundred and sixty-one (16 1) is, would make it just clean it up a little bit. But then we get into sort of a deviation issue. LOPEZ: Well, certainly. I just submitted it for consideration. You want to play with it, great. My concern is maintaining the urban core around Kailua-Kona, instead of making it a bedroom community. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Is there any other questions for Mr. Lopez's map here? (No response.) LOPEZ: I yield. KOSSOW: Okay. If we can go over to Brenda Ford's map. I know that there was some public testimony. Actually, maybe, I guess I forgot. I should ask the Commission whether or not they would like to proceed. `Cause these are the only two maps that were introduced from this past week. So, we can look at some other maps or we can go back to the regular working draft and start making some moves there. So, I would open that up for discussion. And I'm good with whatever the Commission wants to do. Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Personally, I'd like to work on developing the final map, and not revisit history over and over and over. There's some good data in there, and we may draw from that in 14 our discussion. But to go and review those maps, two or three others, it's just—it's killing me. Let's just get this fixed. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Is there any other discussion for this? BATH: Chair, Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, go ahead. BATH: I was wanting some of the other Commissioners thoughts on the two maps that had been presented, that might not have given any at this point if they're willing to do that. I yield. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. What two maps are you referring to? BATH: Hustace map from this morning. The two that we just discussed. The Lopez and the Hustace maps. KOSSOW: Right. You wanted to hear more from that? BATH: I wanted to hear from any of the other Commissioners that might have thoughts on it if they're yeah. KOSSOW: I see. I see. Thank you. Thank you for that. BATH: I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: Thank you, Chair. I also appreciate Commissioner Hustace's work on this map. I think it's a really good compromise. For myself,just thinking how we can include some of those upper Puna communities back into Council District 5. So, I'm glad that we're able to work on that. I know from the last Redistricting Commission, that was something that came out of the folks from that area. So, I'm glad that we were able to do that. I'm okay with pushing into south Kona more. So, I'm okay with the changes that's been presented so far. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Any other discussion? (No response.) Without hearing any, I'm going to move over to our working draft. Mr. Hustace, do you mind pulling that up? HUSTACE: Number one, Chair? KOSSOW: Whatever the—Our current HUSTACE: The current proposed one? 15 KOSSOW: Current proposed. Yeah, we should be able to work on HUSTACE: You want to work from that one? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: So,just to be clear, the map that I showed this morning was built off of that one. KOSSOW: It was built. Okay. HUSTACE: It was built off of that one, but we can definitely go back for the sake of clarity, can really build off of one (indiscernible; overtalk with Chair Kossow). KOSSOW: I think, and maybe Ms. Mellon-Lacey can clarify this for myself, but since it is the draft and it is something that we voted on, we should work on that one. Work on that, and then use your map as a guidance if that's what the Commission wants to. HUSTACE: You got it, Chair. No problem. I can put up the proposed draft plan then. KOSSOW: Thank you. HUSTACE: So, this is the draft proposed plan up on the screen. As we recall, it's the same as Working Doc 1-4. MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Is that Ms. Bath? MELLON-LACEY: No, this is Diana Mellon-Lacey. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey, thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Looking at the Code, it's not real prescriptive about how you proceed to amend or change the map after the public hearings. So, it's not a lot of guidance to offer you there. I mean it says, this is in 36-8(c) of the Code, Any alternate plan submitted for consideration that the commission has not formally rejected for just cause during public hearings shall continue to be considered by the commission for the remaining public hearings and meetings until a final plan is selected. So, I don't think you're prohibited from going back to earlier versions if they're helpful in pressing ahead to reach a final product. But as the Code stands, it doesn't really give a lot of direction. 16 KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. Just for clarity too, would we have to create a motion if we wanted to work on let's say, Mr. Hustace or Mr. Lopez's map? Would we have to table the current draft based off of the previous meetings as we voted on that map? MELLON-LACEY: Well, I think that it's important to refer to the current—and this is just my opinion because this is not in the Code, but in order to enable the public to follow the changes that you're making, I think it's important to refer to the draft that was presented at the pubic hearings, and then show how the new changes that you want to make will affect that map. I don't see another way where the public could follow what you're doing if you went to a completely different map. But that's my opinion. I don't have something here that really gives us a guideline. But I think it is important that the public can track the changes you're making. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. Okay. Mr. Lopez, do you have something? LOPEZ: I have to agree with that sentiment because there is no further public hearings, there's no further opportunities for the public to view maps, other than what they might see on the website. So, to interject something completely different at them now would be bad. So, I have to agree with that sentiment. Keep what we have that's been viewed and modify that to fit the needs and particularly demonstrate how we are employing much of the valid testimony that was given to us. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you for that, Mr. Lopez. Is there any other discussion? (No response.) Okay, we'll go to the working draft. Excuse me, the draft prior to the yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. HUSTACE: Okay. So, up on the screen, Chair, I have Working Doc 1-4, which is the same as the proposed draft plan. Which the public was able to see,just tab between these. This is the same one, the Redistricting Commission Draft Plan, is the same as Working Doc 1-4. That was just a progression for the public to follow. So, we went from 1, 1-2, 1- 3, 1-4, and then 1-4 became the Commission Draft Plan. So, here on the editing software, I have that map up here. From here, we can make the changes based upon previous discussion and testimony. Chair, I'll leave it up to you where you want kind of dive in first. LOPEZ: Question. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: This says read-only. Are we going to be able to work on this and keep it? HUSTACE: So, Mr. Lopez, I will—as soon as I make any sort of edits, I can retitle it and save it as new file. LOPEZ: Okay, it would be a new file. Thank you. 17 HUSTACE: I welcome any thoughts on a title. LOPEZ: Yeah, okay. Thank you. So, we'll save whatever work we do here. Okay. KOSSOW: I think let's start with the border between District 3 and 5, based on the conversations that we've had yesterday and the public that came out. If Ms. Ah Nee is available, maybe if you can give us clear guidance of what you want to see for this map to ensure that's the deviation and how far back Pana`ewa could go. AH NEE: Aloha, Chair, Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee, go ahead. Thank you. AH NEE: Mahalo again for allowing me to participate in this redistricting. I do see the concerns of the district that I preside in. And I thinkI'm very thankful that we have had people who come testify and actually come with solutions. `Cause a lot of times being the youngest and the newest to the table as a commissioner, there's still a lot that I had to learn. So, I think one of the solutions that was offered, that we may be able to kind of put into practice right now, is moving that Pana`ewa boundary out to where the Shipman - Mac Nut Road is and try to see where those numbers lie. HUSTACE: Chair, is it permissible for me to make these changes? KOSSOW: Go ahead, yeah. Thank you. HUSTACE: Okay. So, this is Macadamia Road here. Unfortunately, there's a census block on the ocean that is monstrous but. So, we can make that switch there. There's also a clear line at Kea`au Road too, if that's a possibility. But we can always go back. So, there's the changes there at Macadamia Road, and putting Pana`ewa in one contiguous group there. KOSSOW: Can you read off the deviation? HUSTACE: So, currently, this is off of the proposed draft plan, made those changes. So, Council 3 is 7.96 percent over. So, that's a positive gain of one thousand seven hundred and seventy (1,770). It's neighboring community Council 5 is negative 3.65. Which is negative eight hundred and twelve (812) individuals. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee, do you have any other comments for this? For District 3? FORD: Mr. Chairman, may I just interrupt for a second? We have a problem. The screen that you're showing and working on right now, is one and a half by two inches on my screen. Is there some reason that it is not expanded fully? 18 KOSSOW: I'm not sure what that issue is. Maybe it's a Zoom problem. You might have to open that up onto FORD: Okay. Let me try. I'll get out of here right now. AH NEE: Chair, Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee. AH NEE: Thank you for going through that process. I remember one of the solutions offered from the public was looking at that Haihai cut off and seeing if those Puna of Haihai was considerably in the more development state of District 5. Is that going to help in the deviations? I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, do you have any comments on District 5 going into Haihai? BATH: Yeah, thank you for asking. Haihai doesn't really represent upper Puna. I heard those testimonies and appreciated them, however I'm not sure that the testifiers understood that Haihai does not have substandard subdivisions. They do have the cul-de- sacs and things that they spoke of. I wonder if maybe the testifiers were aligning more with the Kea`au Ag Lots. But Haihai definitely wouldn't be wise because it would give us numbers that we don't need, and it would deprive us of the census blocks that we do need to have voice. So, I would think that that might not be such a good idea. I really like Mr. Hustace's map with a couple of tweaks. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: One question I have is, does this revision put Pana`ewa and Keaukaha together? I think that was a request made. KOSSOW: Thank you for the question, Mr. Yoshina. This is the current working draft that we previously had. And the request from Ms. Ah Nee was to kind of come up with an idea of where the line should go. And so, currently this places Pana`ewa into Council District 3. YOSHINA: Does it also include Keaukaha? KOSSOW: That is correct. YOSHINA: So, all of Keaukaha and Pana`ewa, DHHL lands or communities, are now in District 3? KOSSOW: That is correct. Yes. 19 YOSHINA: Okay. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Could I ask for a small concession here, or a request? KOSSOW: Yes. YOSHINA: At the previous meeting, I had requested that a block, I don't know the numbers here, but upper Haihai. We put them into Council 3. I would like to ask that they be put back into Council 2. KOSSOW: I'm sorry, Mr. Yoshina. Can you speak up to the mic? To summarize, you wanted YOSHINA: At our last work session, I asked that, and I don't know the census block numbers, but if you go up Haihai Street, there was a rectangular block that I requested be put into Council 3. But I would ask that that be put back into Council 2. I think yeah, those that have been highlighted in yellow. Right. Can you put that in 2? Yeah, thank you. I think that population shift will help Council 3 a little bit or gives a little bit more wiggle room. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. So, the deviation now for Council 2 is 11.6 percent, at two thousand five hundred and seventy-nine (2,579). Council District 3 is negative 6.2, at negative one thousand three hundred and seventy-eight(1,378). It sounds like—My thinking is that we have to take some of Council 2 in order for Council 3 to get into part of HPP. So, to allow Council 5 to get into upper Puna. Does anybody have objections to that? HUSTACE: No, Chair. And to go back to some of the discussion we had before, and with Commissioner Bath, we have to push Council 5 further south, so. Council 3 needs to take more of Council 5 in this current map here. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Go ahead, Ms. Bath. BATH: James, since you have your map more in your mind, can you overlay what you proposed onto this map? I yield. HUSTACE: Unfortunately, I don't know if I can. I can switch back and forth between them. That's probably the best I can do. So, let me save this one and then we can open up the other one. KOSSOW: You know what you could do, is you can log in into another, like you can have two. 20 HUSTACE: Will it not kick me out of one of the sessions? KOSSOW: No. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: Well, I've been doing it the whole time so. HUSTACE: Okay, I will do that. KOSSOW: Since we're heading over to 11 o'clock, I'm going to call for a five-minute recess. Come back here about 11:03. HUSTACE: Chair,just one thing. Could we save that file before I open up another one, just in case? KOSSOW: Yeah. Go right ahead. HUSTACE: Is there a title that you'd prefer? KOSSOW: Working Draft 1-5. HUSTACE: Alright. KOSSOW: Thank you. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Calling the meeting back into order. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Just a thought. It's nothing that has to be. I'm wondering if we canIf the other Commissioners would be okay with us taking James' map for Districts 3, 4, 5, and 6, for now, and then focusing onI'm concerned about that Improvement District in Kona, and trying to work that in. To me, that's the big issue. So, if we can maybe, for purposes of discussion, adopt James' last map, and then tweak that Improvement District, which seems to be a pretty big issue. I didn't know if that would save some time and wanted to hear what the other Commissioners thought about that. Just a thought. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Why don't you go ahead and make that into a motion? Mr. Hustace would have to make areadjust the map that we were just working on. Just because that's the working draft map. So, it would just take him some time to add this on 21 to the map. So, why don't you go ahead and make into the motion. And then also be careful of the word adopt. BATH: Oh, thank you. Okay. I move that we work off of Mr. Hustace's most current map that's been shared, whatever the number or the name of that is. And we use that as our current working map. That we, for purposes of the working—wait. Can you scratch that? That's too wordy. I move that we work off of Mr. Hustace's most recent submitted map and make the adjustments that are needed particularly with the Improvement District in Kailua Village. KOSSOW: Alright, there's a motion. Is there a second? YOSHINA: I seconded it. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. Motion's on the table. Any discussion? Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: That's completely contradictory to what we discussed going into this if we want to minimize the change of the appearance of a map to the public. That the public saw the draft plan. That's the one we need to fix, and we need to demonstrate how their testimony was taken to address that matter. So, I would have to disagree with this motion, to produce a new map, very different from what we have. Just for semblance of continuity. YOSHINA: So,point of clarification,please. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Isn't the draft that we're working on the draft that we approved or adopted? KOSSOW: Prior to working on it this morning, that draft is the draft that went to the public hearings. YOSHINA: Right. So, isn't that or wasn't that Mr. Hustace's map? KOSSOW: No, Mr. Hustace's map was something else. BATH: Chair? Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Hold on one second. Mr. Yoshina still has the floor. YOSHINA: I yield. I'm a little bit confused here. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Ms. Bath? 22 BATH: Sorry about that, Dwayne. I understood that Corp Counsel told us that we had some—at least I understood that Corp Counsel said that we had some flexibility on how we move forward from here. Perhaps I misunderstood her. KOSSOW: I was under the impression that we would have to work on the draft map. And if you wanted to have Mr. Hustace's map on there, he would have to fix the current draft map. BATH: Thank you for that clarification. I'd like to withdraw my motion. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Bath. BATH: I'd like to make a new motion. I don't know if it's necessary or not. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, go ahead with your motion. BATH: I move that Mr. Hustace take some time to overlay what he has created onto the working draft map. KOSSOW: Motion's on the table. Is there a second? YOSHINA: I'll second that. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. Any discussion? Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: We've been sitting here for ten weeks, or ten sessions. We keep going over the same turf. Let's go back and revisit this. Let's go back and revisit that. While I don't disagree with some of the sentiment about the positive nature of Mr. Hustace's map, to give him time to overlay is going to add some time to this session. It's already December 17'h—I 8h. We have December 21". And we better get moving folks or we're going to be here New Year's Eve. Going over the same questions. The same let's look at this, let's look at that. Please, I suggest that we just buckle down, take the draft map plan, apply the testimony to it, and we can look at various options as presented by Mr. Hustace's map, and then my map that came out after the draft plan. But to try to overlay or integrate without due process of the testimony I think is the wrong thing. A waste of time. Thank you. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? BATH: Yeah. Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: So, I didn't think that we were starting over. I really appreciated James' work, and his consideration of the testimonies. Because heI thought he did such a fair and thoughtful job, that if we take his fair and thoughtful job and apply it to the draft, I think 23 that it will actually save us time. Because it's incorporating all of the testimonies in a fair and reasonable way. So, to me, I mean, it was a gift to me this morning to see that map. I could not believe what a product it was in such a short amount of time. And I am confident that James can overlay. When I say overlay, take what he put and present it to this Commission in the draft plan that we're speaking of. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other discussion? Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: Mahalo, Chair. I think I understand what Commissioner Bath is attempting to do. And I understand what Commissioner Lopez is also referring to in terms of, you know, we got to get moving on this. Just in terms of District 6, I would like to adjust our working draft map to accept the changes on the Puna-Volcano side for what he did for Ka`u. So, I would just like to see those changes reflected on our working draft. Not going back and readopting or rehashing. But our working draft doesn't have those adjustments yet and I would like to see that for Ka`u as we move forward. So, I do think if Mr. Hustace can go and make those changes in Ka`u, it would help us move that along a bit quicker. So, I think if we can adopt some of the changes, it will get our working draft to a place where we can keep moving it forward. So, that's my thoughts. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Mr. Lopez, and then Mr. Yoshina. LOPEZ: Thank you, Commissioner Akamu. That's exactly why I introduced that map that I did. It was only for my area, District 8. I wanted to fix the draft plan map for the testimony that came in for District 8. And it did affect District 7. So, that's the perspective. Let's fix the map we've got. And each of you know what you need to accomplish and let's adjust the map that way. Mr. Hustace's input is valuable. I think we can refer to it if you like what he did for your district. But again, let's focus on fixing the draft map plan. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I think that was my understanding of Commissioner Bath's motion. Is that we were working on the draft, and she wanted to see the overlays of our suggestions on that map. So, I don't see where we have a disagreement here. It's just maybe a misunderstanding of what is being tried, or what is being attempted with the request. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you. Perhaps it's maybe the language of it. Maybe it just has Mr. Hustace completing, you know, doing the whole changes, versus going around and all of us kind of saying, "Well, actually no", you know? So, maybe it's the language of the motion. BATH: I withdraw the motion. KOSSOW: Motion withdrawn. 24 BATH: As District 5, I would like to adopt for District 5, what Mr. Hustace has, with the tweak to the Stainback Highway that I had previously discussed. And also, for District 4, the Kaloli Point inclusion. I think it was the census block that had two hundred (200) and something people in it, for now. KOSSOW: Okay. Motion's on the table. Is there a second? BATH: Oh, that wasn't a motion. That was just me. KOSSOW: Oh, I'm sorry. I was under the impression it was. BATH: No. It's just what I would like to do. I yield. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I think we'll just go back to the working draft that we currently have. HUSTACE: So, Chair, up on the screen is a working draft of the fifth iteration of our Working Doc 1. So, this is 1-5. Which is based off of, 1-5 comes after 1-4. Which 1-4 is the plan, the proposed plan. KOSSOW: Okay. Ms. Bath, your recommendation is to utilize Mr. Hustace's map plan for Council District 5. Is that correct? BATH: That is correct. With the one tweak. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. So, Mr. Hustace, go ahead and adjust Council District 5 to the map that you introduced this morning. Thank you. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. So, the map I have up on the screen is Working Doc 1-5. And the second one, where the colors are a little bit different, this is the proposed plan I had from this morning after hearing all the testimony. So, I'm going to be moving the changes that you see here for Council 5 to reflect what is on the draft plan here. With the suggestion from Commissioner Bath about Stainback, which is this section over here. If you can see that. It's aboveSo, the yellow hash line is the current as of today, and then this is the area up to Stainback. So, I will make those changes. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map projected onto the screen.) KOSSOW: Thank you for joining us, Ms. Lui. Let the record show Ms. Lui is here. HUSTACE: Just to be clear, the tricky thing with the proposals here, Chair, this may not hold up with residents if they're coming down Kea`au Bypass Road. If they're already in District 3, they would be crossing over District 4 to get back into District 3. Does that make sense? If you're coming down the Pahoa Road, and if you wanted to get into these areas, you'd be crossing . I don't know. It's a point of contention because you'd be using a shared road between the districts. So, it could go either way. But, let me just add Ms. Bath's other suggestion for the Point out here. So, right now it's all in 4. I could 25 leave it like that for right now so we can see the numbers. And then, we may have to make some shifts right now. So, right now, 4 is really high. LOPEZ: James. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: I'll go to Mr. Lopez, and then to Ms. Bath. LOPEZ: This is the draft map that we're modifying. So, for me, could you eliminate the current district line. That's what the yellow hash is, right? HUSTACE: You got it. LOPEZ: It's confusing. Thank you. HUSTACE: No problem. It just helps me, but that's all. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez, you yield? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Bath, thank you. BATH: I think that instead of adding that whole triangle HPP part, can you reverse what you just did? Would it be possible for you to back hit that? HUSTACE: Well, some of that was already in 4, so I have toIf you can be specific on which parts. BATH: Yeah. Kaloli Point, there's a census block that's two hundred(200) and something people, right up on the point of Kaloli. I believe that you could include that without taking that whole section of HPP and adding it. `Cause that's going to throw everything off. HUSTACE: If you don't mind, I can refer to the proposed one and I'll just make it—the slight changes as you mentioned. And we can readjust accordingly. So, this is the proposed. It only goes a couple blocks back, but we'll be focused on that. Okay. (Pause) So, Kaloli Point there, Commissioner Bath, is part of 4 now. BATH: That's correct. Thank you. I yield. HUSTACE: And I'll just keep following your guidance, Commissioner Bath, on the other end of Council 5, and moving some of these communities back into Council 5. BATH: Okay. 26 HUSTACE: I'll just be switching back and forth again. (Indiscernible.) BATH: Okay. Go on up towards the Park. Yeah. (Pause.) Okay. Can you zoom in there? I think it would be nice if we could have some more of that back. But did you include that next block? HUSTACE: Yes. BATH: Okay. Go ahead and include that one then. It would be nice to take a little bit more but, I don't know that we'll be able to. So, let's just go with that for now. HUSTACE: Commissioner Bath, I welcome your thoughts on this area here. I'm not familiar with this area. It is marked for DHHL. BATH: Yeah, that's Hawaiian homes land. There's a block in there. So, I would actually yield to District 3 Commissioner on that. HUSTACE: I can leave it for now because I didn't include it in my proposal. Yeah. So, we can leave it there for now. I'll zoom out so you can see the Council 5 seat. It puts Council 5 at a positive of 3.71. That's a positive deviation of eight hundred and twenty- five (825) individuals. And with this current version, with these changes, Council 4 is 1.83 percent positive, with four hundred(400) over. Four hundred (400)positive gain. We will have to tackle Council 3 `cause they've gained a bit more, but we can come back to that. BATH: I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Anybody have any questions for Mr. Hustace regarding this iteration for upper Puna and lower Puna? If not, we'll go into Council District 3 and Council District 2. (No response.) Okay. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. Is there some sort of guidance? I welcome guidance from our fellow commissioners here too. Because in this case, Council 3 is 10.62 percent over, which is two thousand three hundred and sixty-two (2,362). Since we moved it further south, that means Council 2 will have to move further south as well. That's my guess. YOSHINA: This is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Mr. Hustace, how much of a deviation am I positive now? HUSTACE: Both Council's 2 and 3 are positive. Both, over ten percent positive. YOSHINA: Okay. Thank you. 27 KOSSOW: So, in this iteration, Council 2 needs to go a little bit more into Council 3. And then, Council 1 needs to go into Council 2. Is that correct? HUSTACE: Yes. KOSSOW: Okay. Anybody have a starting point they want to have a discussion on or have Mr. Hustace change? YOSHINA: Mr. Hustace, this is Dwayne again. The northern boundary of Council 2, is that the Wailuku River boundary now? HUSTACE: No, it's based off of our draft plan. So that's at Honoli`i. YOSHINA: Okay. Well, that's really . We need to hear from Council District 1. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Ms. Lui is on the call so she can. Ms. Lui, do you mind unmuting yourself. I think I can hear you (indiscernible). Sorry about that. LUL No, no problem. Yeah. I think if weI think I really agreed what you said earlier, Commissioner Yoshina, which is to move it down from Honoli`i. But if we could even keep it, you know, a little bit north of Wailuku, that would be great. If we absolutely have to go back to the river because of the numbers, then I guess we have to. People are used to that. I actually feel worse about Pi`ihonua than I do about Wainaku. Because that was the community that was being split. It wasn't just an identity issue. Yeah, but I don't know if there's another good breaking point. If maybe like closer to Pauka`a. I don't know. Dwayne, help me here too. YOSHINA: I had suggested either Kaiwiki or Kaiwiki Stream or Wainaku Stream, but I'm not certain where the census block boundaries are on those. I do remember that when we tried to use Wainaku Stream, it was really an uglyIt was not pleasant to look at. But I don't really care about the way it looks. LUL Right, right. Agreed. YOSHINA: Okay. So, if you can find Wainaku Stream or Kaiwiki Stream. LUL Which is in-between. YOSHINA: Yeah, and it would split a block, a census block, I think. HUSTACE: Sorry, I'm just looking for like a clear break on the coast there for the stream. I see Pukihae Stream, where one of the census blocks run along. And some of these aren't marked on the map. There's another one here that looks,just based upon its shape, looks like a stream census block. I see a couple roads that could be potential as well. M5'ili, that's off of Honoli`i, so. 28 KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, I have a question. If there was an issue with like a mauka- makai—`Cause right now the census block is based off of mauka-makai, the connectivity between, let's say if we decided to take Council District 2 and leave the makai portion into 2, and then the one portion up in the mauka side. Will there be an issue with connectivity? HUSTACE: Possibly. As we've talked about, there's one census block and I can kind of pick it out here. This census block is going to cause some problems for us. Because it touches Honoli`i, and then it borders Pi`ihonua. So, we have to find a way to work around it somehow. KOSSOW: Yeah. So, that's why I was thinking of—Well, I guess that defeats the purpose if it goes all the way down that side. But, if there was a road on the mauka side, would that be an issue, if you had the more makai portions in the District 2, and then the mauka portions in District 1? But I don't think that's going to be realistic. HUSTACE: It's possible. It may look really bizarre and ugly but, we can try and do something like that. LUL I mean, it's the census block that's ugly. It's not our work. YOSHINA: Yeah, and we can use this as justification anyway. Because it's not ourIt is the Census Bureau that forced that. LUL Yeah, so working with what we have, it may have to be ugly. YOSHINA: And I don't think there's population up there. LUL Yeah. YOSHINA: Frankly. LUL I think that's a good idea. If we take that, does it go into Pi`ihonua, or does it just border on it? HUSTACE: I really would defer to you, Commissioners. Because where the boundary of Pi`ihonua is and what roads. This census block, this one that's really odd, I think there are people that live in it. There are seventy-nine (79)people. So, it might be part of Pi`ihonua. But I'm not sure where that line is. LUL I don't think it is but maybe, Dwayne, you know. I thought Pi`ihonua was a little bit closer to the Wailuku River. At least the camps. YOSHINA: Yeah. I don't know for sure. Okay. 29 LUL Commissioner Ah Nee, do you have any idea about that? YOSHINA: I believe that there's a DHHL property above Pi`ihonua. But I don't know where that is begins and ends. LUL Well, let's take it for 1 and see what happens. HUSTACE: So, if I'm traveling south towards Hilo, I'm coming through Council 1, you want me to push this Council 1 a little bit further south then? To some of these other boundaries. LUL Right. HUSTACE: Okay. Is there some direction I could go? Any sort of guidance you could give me? We can try and stay away from pushing it all the way to Wailuku first, and then see what other areas are possible. LUL Yeah, if we just keep going south a little at a time, we'll see how far we have to go. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map projected onto the screen.) HUSTACE: Okay. So, Kaiwiki Road's going up here. So, there are homes up above Kaiwiki. Still a positive of nine percent for Council 2. LUL Can you take a few more of those mauka ones? HUSTACE: So, eight percent there. Let's see. Could take up to Kaiwiki Road as a possibility. So, that would put Council 2 at seven percent. YOSHINA: Can you find Wainaku Stream on the map? HUSTACE: This map doesn't have a name. I don't see Wainaku Stream, but I'm guessing it's this one here. It's south of Wainaku. Is that correct? YOSHINA: Yeah. It's . HUSTACE: Yeah, it's not labeled on the map, Commissioner Yoshina. But I think it's this one. It's just north of Clem Akina Park. Is that correct? YOSHINA: Yeah, I think that's it. Could you draw a line there? HUSTACE: Sure. So, I can move the boundary there, to Wainaku Stream then. Let's see what that looks like. Okay, so I think that's—Actually it says it's a totally different stream. Up mauka it says it's Pukihae Stream. YOSHINA: Okay. 30 LUL So, that's okay. HUSTACE: But that's just south of Wainaku. That puts Council 2 at five percent over. So, a more reasonable number there. YOSHINA: Yeah. I'm good with that. HUSTACE: Okay. So, if we leave it there, as you can see, we still have this one tricky census block that wraps mauka and goes back up to Honoli`i, and I'm not sure. We could throw that all in 1 or keep it in 2. I don't know if it has a connectivity issue or not. LUL Let's leave it for now and see what we need to do up at that top. HUSTACE: Okay. Thank you. KOSSOW: Alright. Thank you, Commissioners. Let's go over to between the Districts of 2and 3. HUSTACE: Alright, Chair. So, I'm showing kind of that more core of Hilo, between 2 and 3. Once again, 2 is at five percent, and 3 is at ten percent. So, we either have to balance it out a little bit by giving 2 a little bit more. And we could even look at some of these census blocks I missed down here in HPP and give that to 3 or give some to 4 rather. Yeah, 4. KOSSOW: Yeah. Perhaps we do that with HPP first. And then we'll go over to some parts that we discussed with Mr. Yoshina. HUSTACE: Okay. So, one of the things that Mr. Yoshina said was to put more of the mauka area of Haihai Street back into Council 2. So, that was the change we made before we had a break. They're back in 2. But if there are other changes in Hilo that we could make, to try and smooth it out a little bit more, I think this is a possibility. And maybe change some of the oddities that are along Manono Street or Kawili Street, is possible. KOSSOW: Yeah, let's start with HPP first. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: And then we can come back and kind of see where it needs to change the deviation. HUSTACE: You got it. KOSSOW: Thank you. 31 HUSTACE: Once again as a reminder, 4 is in . Commissioner Bath, I did just so you're—and you can see on the map there, the couple blocks that jump over Pahoa Road that I guess are a part of HPP there, all of HPP. Is that okay? BATH: Yes. HUSTACE: Okay. So, I'm just moving, basically, one census block at a time here, Chair. Just to try and bring the numbers down a little bit. For example, if I went all the way to Railroad, it would put 4 at 7.5, which might be a little too high, if we consider where we have to spread population. But we could leave it there like that. I'm not certain about this street, along Shower. But it does balance 3 there. I know there's this big chunk out of HPP in the makai area though. KOSSOW: So, we have to subtract from Council 4, right? HUSTACE: Maybe. It just depends onIt has to stay within, what number was it again? Five nine, right? KOSSOW: Five point nine (5.9). Oh look, Santa's here! Interesting. (Laughter.) HUSTACE: Five point nine nine (5.99), Chair? KOSSOW: Five point nine nine (5.99). HUSTACE: Okay. LUL What does District 5 have again? It's not on the screen. What was the deviation for 5, now? HUSTACE: Five (5) is at 3.71. LUL Ah. Okay. So, you could still move a little of 4 into 5. HUSTACE: That's possible too. It is possible, yeah. Just to smooth it a little bit. Let's see. LUL Four(4) and 5 work so closely together, I think. Don't they, Stephanie? BATH: I'm sorry. I got distracted by Santa Clause. (Laughter.) What did you say? LUL No, I was saying, you know, the boundaries between 4 and 5 are probably less critical than between you know, 3 and 5, or something like that. `Cause it's upper and lower Puna. Is that true, or no? BATH: Well, Highway 1-11 (sic) is sort of the breaking point between upper and lower Puna. But it's actually Orchidland and that area down there, like with Kea`au, that whole 32 border along 130, really is not really the upper Puna that I was concerned about's voice. It's almost like a middle Puna. And so, there's some flexibility down here. You know, tweaking in this area. I wish commissioner from District 4 was here. What are you suggesting doing? LUL Just moving a little bit more of 4 into 5 because of the numbers. If you take a little bit more of HPP right there, where the arrow is now, for example. BATH: So, I wouldn't move any of 4 into 5. `Cause then their voice is going to be in three areas instead of two. The only reason those four census blocks, that are kind of in District 5 are with District 4, is because those four blocks are actually HPP. And so, their voice is with HPP. I wouldn't move—There's really nothing more to move into District 5. I mean, what were you looking at? I'm not clear on what you . LUL Well,just that 4 was over, but now it's 3, so. BATH: I'm just trying to keep in mind connectivity here, right now. What are our numbers now? HUSTACE: Three (3) is at 7.87, and 4 is at 4.95. So, somehow need to unload a little bit from Council 3. BATH: What are the population numbers that go with that? HUSTACE: Council 3 is at 7.87 positive, which is one thousand seven hundred and forty-nine (1,749). And Council 4 is 4.59 positive,which is one thousand and twenty (1,020). LUL So, 4 can be okay the way it is. Three's (3's) got to shift, and there's no room to shift into 2. HUSTACE: Just a little bit. So, on the proposed map I had earlier, that's why I had moved the border back down to Wailuku. So that, 2 could take more of 3, and really smooth the numbers out. I know I was trying to keep Pi`ihonua together. LUL Yeah. BATH: Chair, what is five (5)? What are the numbers on 5 now? HUSTACE: Commissioner Bath, 5 is 3.71 percent positive, which is eight hundred and twenty-five (825). BATH: Give me a minute here. We might be able to take some out of 3. LUL When I look at Council 6 though, aye yai yai. 33 HUSTACE: Yeah, we'll have to tackle that one next here. BATH: Chair. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: James, I'm wondering—What was James'? What did he do there in Kea`au town? He gaveoh, I think this is what he did here. I'm wondering if James can look at his plan and move some thing out of 3 into 5. It's going to be kind of hard though because that's like downtown Kea`au. YOSHINA: Commissioner Hustace, this is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: This iteration on the map now, does that include those two blocks or block areas that we moved from 3 to 2 earlier? HUSTACE: Along Haihai Street, Mr. Yoshina? YOSHINA: Yes. HUSTACE: Yes. YOSHINA: Oh, okay. 10-4. HUSTACE: So, there are a couple blocks in there. There's quite a large population there, along Haihai. YOSHINA: Right. So, we moved that back into 2,right? HUSTACE: It is in 2, correct. YOSHINA: Okay. And with that we have five over? HUSTACE: Yes, five percent. Yes, one thousand one hundred and fourteen (1,114). YOSHINA: Okay, thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: One of the strong repeated testimony had to do with Hawaiian Homelands. And I haven't heard us discussing any of that yet. Although, I see there's some up there in the top corner of 3. Are we addressing that in these things? 34 KOSSOW: Yeah, Mr. Lopez, I think I can answer that. So, the first part of what we did here was add Pana`ewa. Which was originally in 5 in our draft, and we put that into 3. So, Pana`ewa and Keaukaha, which is right there, is all together. So, that addresses that from the public hearings. LOPEZ: Thank you. I see it. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, what did you do in your map, for 3? That made it into an acceptable deviation? HUSTACE: The map up on the screen is from my proposal this morning. That pushes into part of HPP but once again . And then, this area along Stainback doesn't really change much of the deviation. It's low population and very, very few in this area. But what made the change possible and doable was bringing the line back down to Wailuku River. So that 2 could take more of 3 and help with that larger positive gain. That was the only way I could make it happen and work. I haven't really tinkered beyond that. KOSSOW: Thank you. HUSTACE: Would it be possible to put a pause on the east side of the island and move to the west? KOSSOW: Sure. Maybe let's go to Council 9. HUSTACE: How about we start in Kona? KOSSOW: We could start in Kona. LOPEZ: Have you saved this recently? HUSTACE: I will save it right now. KOSSOW: That would not be fun. Thank you for that suggestion, Mr. Lopez. HUSTACE: Alright so, if you don't mind, we'll go to the other side here of Council 6 and 7. If that's okay? And bring Council 6 back into some relatively normal ground here. So, I welcome some feedback on this area, with your experience, Mr. Akamu, and Chair Kossow. KOSSOW: Can you put the old map? I just want to see where that line was. HUSTACE: The 2011 one? KOSSOW: The 2011 one, yes. HUSTACE: Yes. I can do that. 35 KOSSOW: Go ahead and scroll into the borderline in the middle. You see how it kind lips in there? Yeah, okay. So, from the one forty-five (145) down, we can adjust it to Council District 6. I don't know if you can see that one forty-five (145), but. HUSTACE: Chair, if you don't mind, I'll also take the ocean here on the outside. I know there's no one out there, but just to consistency. So, one forty-five (145) here,just right outside of Kealakekua? KOSSOW: Yeah. I believe—It's not splitting a community. It's kind of barren going across there. But the hard part is, one portion of the houses is on the top part. And then the bottom part's all ag lots. HUSTACE: I'll put it up until that area? KOSSOW: Go past the one forty-five (145), sorry. You're splitting into the HUSTACE: Take this one here? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. And then? KOSSOW: And then the top part, where the Hokuakano Road is. HUSTACE: That large census block there? KOSSOW: Yeah, this is the hospital area. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: What is that at? HUSTACE: So, that puts Council 6 at negative 5.43. Which is under one thousand two hundred and seven (1,207). So, still within parameters. KOSSOW: Okay. Okay. That mauka portion HUSTACE: Up on the right-hand side? KOSSOW: That road will be connected to 6. So, that nine people block in that census block should probably go intoActually, let me do some research and then get back to you on that one. 36 HUSTACE: Okay. Some of the work that—the stuff I proposed this morning, and I think we heard testimony from even Ms. Ford about more of these mauka areas and their connectivity. So, should we be tackling that a little later? Or . KOSSOW: So, technically, the road kind of comes through the mauka side of Kainaliu. So, I believe this is the cut offline between the two. If you can zoom in towards Kealakekua? Head into Kona town a little bit more. There's the split there. So, it's mauka of that. HUSTACE: So, should these stay in 6? I mean, maybe they're more of Hualalai. KOSSOW: I would suggest putting that into 7. HUSTACE: Okay. KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: It's such a large block up there too. I'll see what this does and see what continuity we have here. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez, you have a question? LOPEZ: Yes. In this exercise dealing with District 6, are we going to try to address the Volcano issue? We're focusing on one side of it, but there's testimony about the width and bring about alleviating that. Are we trying to adjust that at all? KOSSOW: Can we go back to the Volcano area? I forgot what we did. LUL Hello. Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Hold on one second. Mr. Lopez, do you yield? LOPEZ: Oh yes. I see that it's still in District 6. My question was, are we trying to address that? KOSSOW: Okay. Okay. Ms. Lui. LUL I guess I kind of feel, and maybe Commissioner Akamu can speak to it too. I kind of feel like this is a district where we could make a good argument as to why it has to go more than negative 5.99. We've heard repeated testimony that this is just way too big of an area for one person to represent well to represent all of the areas of it well. So, I would be okay with, you know, coming in with a map that made that a larger deviation than 5.99 and making an argument for it. And let people rebut us. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. What's the current deviation for 6? 37 HUSTACE: So currently, it is actually negative 5.51. So, it's riding that line right there. So, we wouldn't have to face any sort of challenges, but LUL But, if we put it back into 7, I don't know. That was just a thought. Six (6) is the one that I would say we could really make an argument for. So yeah anyway, wondering what Commissioner Akamu thinks. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: I think what we have in the Volcano Village area is okay for now. They have been part of Ka`u, and I know it's a numbers game. If we can, add them on and make them green. I would support that, but that really is going to affect more of what's happening on the Kona side too and needing to expand more towards Kona. So, I think this is a compromise. We were able to get this extra Alii Anela subdivision area into Council District 5. So, at least for that community, they'll be more aligned with 5. But we still have like Jade, Pearl, and all of those areas in the Volcano Village area still in Ka`u. I'm okay with that because,just traditional boundary lines, that area at the golf course is traditionally in Ka`u. But Volcano Village specifically, is still in the `Ola`a, Puna side. So, that could switch to green. But again, it's about trying to balance it and compromise it the effects on the west side. So, I think where we are now is okay. And we can continue to work on the Kona side, Mr. Kossow's district. So, I'm okay with this as it is on this draft. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. And that is a good stopping point to call for a recess for lunch. We're going to do forty-five (45) minutes. And we'll see you at 12:45. And we'll discuss finishing Council's 6, 7, 8, 9, and 1. And then complete Council 3. Correct? Yeah. Okay. We'll recess for now. See you at 12:45. Thank you. (Forty-five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Calling the meeting back into order. I hope everybody had a good lunch. We left off on working the Working Draft. Mr. Hustace, if you can go ahead and pull that back up. Mr. Kauka, would you be able to call the roll? Just to make sure everybody's here. KAUKA: Certainly. Thank you. Commissioner Lui, (No response). Chair, I don't see that she's rejoined the Zoom room yet. Commissioner Yoshina, "Here," Commissioner Ah Nee, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Yadao is not present. Commissioner Bath, "Hilo Chambers," Commissioner Akamu, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Lopez, "Present, Kona Chambers," Commissioner Kossow, "Here," Commissioner Hustace, "Present. I'm still in Kona." Thank you, Chair. There are seven commissioners currently back after reconvening from recess. KOSSOW: Okay, awesome. Thank you very much. We were discussing between 5 and 6, with Volcano Village. And then, we were also discussing 6 and 7, right on that line. As of 38 right now, the deviation numbers for 5 and 6 are good. Correct? Okay. Then let's go over to Mr. Lopez's district. And let's have a discussion about that. LOPEZ: Okay, let me open that. This map you see, is what we submitted in the draft plan. This is the one that—Two issues came out of this one, the Kalaoa, and the Kailua Village Business Improvement District. Now, I've been thinking about this. And I reacted to the testimony, and I submitted a potential change. As I think more and more, one of the comments that somebody made to me was that you gotta take all the input, look at it, and do what you think is best for the island wide. So, I'm going to preach a little heresy here and see what happens. The predominance—Well, actually, all but one person that I heard regarding the Kailua Village Business Improvement District, were all legislators, current or past. So, I have to ask myself, one, am I going to allow myself to be swayed because they have some standing, if you will. Although, they testify as either past, which is private citizens, or current, and to me, they're not private citizens. There's a vested interest. And some of the comments, I actually bordered on gerrymandering. We could be accused of gerrymandering if we listened because of some of the comments I heard. I'm going to ask if anybody here can state why we have to tie the Kailua Village Business Improvement District into our redistricting plan. It's a Business District. It's designed to manage the growth and progress of the business area within Kailua-Kona. They derive tax benefit. They derive benefits from it. There's monies paid into a fund, contributions to keep that quarter upscale or improved, and address problems within the commercial aspect of that district. Those lines have nothing to do with redistricting or census blocks. Yet, in trying to put the forced issue of that district into redistricting, we consume much more population because of the census blocks overlay, and we go beyond the district boundaries. One comment I had that I have to really consider is that somebody said, well, the council member who has the Business District has a good handle on that. And I don't deny on that. That's a good rationale. That's a good reason. But how does that enter into redistricting? So, unless I have some really strong input, why the Business District should impact redistricting effort, I'm gong to take the position—as I was advised, do your job that I think I should disregard the Business Improvement District requirement as it pertains to Redistricting Commission. And with that, I open it up to anybody who has a—Maybe even, anybody. Is there a reason why that should be considered? Given that of all the testimony we received, I'm guessing maybe there were six, and except for one, they were all politicians. Anybody have a comment on that aspect before I proceed? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I'm not that familiar with the Business Improvement District. So, I kind of lean on you and Chair Kossow on that, Mr. Lopez. But really, I put a question back to you. In considering the Business Improvement District in urban core of Kona, would it be better to have two council members sit on that board? And build those discussions and help with the development there? Thank you. 39 KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Perhaps. But I was actually in Council staff when that District was developed. And for a time, I did sit on that District as arepresenting my council member. Okay, so. And I think that's continued to be the case. As soon as I say this, I'll be wrong but, the council member doesn't sit on it, other than have a seat there. They appoint somebody to sit there for them. And to have two council seats would be a big deal to affect the County Charter. So, while it's a consideration, I don't think it's a necessary, personally. I think that the Business Improvement District runs pretty much autonomously. It has its own board. Its own president. Its own body. And is hardly directed by the Council. They receive the feedback. They keep an up and touch of it. If there are needs, there's coordination. But there's not a close hand shaking of personal bodies. That's my best understanding of how it came to be; What it was,when I was there. And if it's changed, I'm just not aware. KOSSOW: To add, if I remember correctly from the bylaws, you're only supposed to have two members from the County. So, one of them just so happens to be a council member, and then the other one's usually from the Mayor's Office or the Planning Department. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay, okay. I believe Brenda Ford is on and she raised her hand. So, I know that she has some time under her testimony. Ms. Ford, you can unmute yourself. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (part 2) BRENDA FORD FORD: (No response.) LOPEZ: May I remind the Chair that I did not yield? I'm just entering discussion about the business of the value of KVBID affecting the Redistricting Commission. And that's the discussion I was looking for before I go to my map. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. Okay. LOPEZ: Okay. Just to clarify. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Let's head over to Ms. Ford if she has anything on testimony. FORD: I do. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Ford. Go ahead. FORD: I happen to agree with Mr. Lopez. I am a former council member but never was a politician. And I did testify in favor of putting the Business Improvement District(BID) into one district. However, Mr. Lopez has proven that it doesn't work when you've got 40 redistricting going on. And so, I would yield to his opinion on removing the BID completely from this process. And I thank him for putting up his map showing how the BID would influence redistricting, and I agree. It should come out. It shouldn't be considered. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ford, for your testimony. NEW BUSINESS (part 2) KOSSOW: Is there any discussion regarding Mr. Lopez? Mr. Lopez posed a question. (No response.) Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: With that and thank you for that input. If there's no other consideration then, I would like to go to this map here and revisit the—Right now, it's at negative one seventy-nine. I do think we need to address the Kalaoa issue. It's a hard nut to swallow because of the numbers. But why should—Again, keeping continuity. Where people live and practice and commune. I would still say that we need to take that fourteen hundred and fifty (1,450) census block and put it intoActually, the fifteen seventy-two (1,572) and put it into District 8. Which is going to nuke District 9 but, there was strong enough consideration that we should do that portion. That one, right there. Yes. Okay. And then all the purple there (indiscernible). And so, with that, what do our numbers look like now? Well, now you see we're way over. So, we have to give up something here. Let's scroll down a little bit. What's that? Over to the right. What's that block of six hundred and thirty-two (632)? Yeah, that one over there. Let's trying moving that into District 7. `Cause I don't have a boundary with 9 at this point. Or, unless I took those three zeros We took all those zeros and put`em in 9. We could put the six thirty-two (632) in 9. But who are we affecting? KOSSOW: Can I ask a question, Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: Are you suggesting to put that mauka portion of H6lualoa into 7? LOPEZ: That portion? Well, I was trying to alleviate the problem that I created with District 9. So, who am I affecting? If I put this census block with six thirty-two (632), who am I affecting if I put it in 9? And does it make more sense to put it in 7? KOSSOW: (Indiscernible.) You said 9. Is it 8? LOPEZ: Yeah. KOSSOW: Yeah, okay. 41 LOPEZ: Well, you'd have to put the other zeros in 9 because we have to have contiguous boundaries but. HUSTACE: Chair, if I may? LOPEZ: Go ahead. HUSTACE: I just think—Well because it presents the same issue as the Kalaoa area because of its distance from Waimea and the Waik6loa area. LOPEZ: Yeah, it is. Yeah. HUSTACE: So, I think we just have to focus on 7 and 8, along this line here. And smooth it out because right now, 7 is short by twenty (20)percent. So, we just have to kind of LOPEZ: Okay. So, let's focus on that first. HUSTACE: Yeah, between 7 and 8. LOPEZ: I agree with you. HUSTACE: Okay. LOPEZ: Okay. So, let's put that census block, six thirty-two (632) into 7. HUSTACE: So, you prefer more of the mauka areas then? LOPEZ: Yes. HUSTACE: Okay. LOPEZ: At this point, trying to. HUSTACE: Okay. Yeah, we're just testing things out here then. LOPEZ: Uh-huh. HUSTACE: Alright. This was, I think, on the list of irregular blocks as well. Look, you see a subdivision over here. Subdivision here. Subdivision on Old Government. Like, it's a problem census block. LOPEZ: Oh, yeah. It's brutal. KOSSOW: If we're putting that into 7, you probably can get it all the way to the junction. Which I think was, Mr. Childs' suggestion. 42 LOPEZ: Yes, it was. The Mamalahoa to up where Hina Lina Road is, yeah. Where do we see that? HUSTACE: By Kaloko, over here. LOPEZ: Right at Palani Road. See where Palani Road is? Go straight down. Right there. Those census blocks—Well, it's only a couple there. Take all those, yeah. HUSTACE: Is there—Just a question for the Chair and Commissioner Lopez. Is there an issue with the mauka makai areas? Like, are we creating more of a south Kona, mauka north Kona? Is that an issue? Rather than dividing closer to the Bay area. LOPEZ: Because of the numbers of population, I would say this is the preferred approach to me. So, where are we now? HUSTACE: So still, Council 7 is sixteen (16)percent under. Which is three thousand two hundred LOPEZ: Alright. So, let's start working up from the down HUSTACE: Down here? LOPEZ: Yeah. Let's start working up from there. HUSTACE: Okay. LOPEZ: Hugging the boundary with 7, that we just made. See what we can gain there. No, I wouldn't do that one. There's too much population there. Okay. Take out that. The three sixty-four (364),please restore it. HUSTACE: Take that one out? LOPEZ: Three sixty-four(364), please restore it to District 8. HUSTACE: Okay. It does split that Aloha Kona Drive. Is that what that is? LOPEZ: Well, but it's Nani Kailua. Yeah, go to Nani Kailua, which is the boundary. Which to me, is the logical boundary. HUSTACE: Oh, that is theOh, all of those there. I see. It does go run right down Nani Kailua. Is that the current one? KOSSOW: No. LOPEZ: Okay. 43 HUSTACE: So, if that Nani Kailua LOPEZ: But that's a you know. That is one neighborhood. Even though Nani Kailua is a street that dead ends right up at the top there. Those three blocks, those three I would leave in District 8. Because they're all one neighborhood. The one thirty-three (133), the one sixteen (116), and the one thirty (130), yeah. Put `em all in District 8. HUSTACE: But 7 still needs more though. LOPEZ: Well, yeah, but we're going to go the other way. Where is Hina Lani? Is that down here at that— HUSTACE: hatHUSTACE: No, that's further north. LOPEZ: No, not Hina Lani. Excuse me. Hualalai. KOSSOW: Hualalai is right below that. Yeah. LOPEZ: Okay. So, could we take that entire census block there? KOSSOW: You want to the take Pines into 7? LOPEZ: Yeah. KOSSOW: Okay. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map projected onto the screen.) Yeah, you might want to add that one little census block. LOPEZ: Yeah, that's right. KOSSOW: That's the Regency. LOPEZ: Now where are we? We're still HUSTACE: So, let's see. Seven (7) is at negative nine, which is negative two thousand (2,000) and 8 is over—(Indiscernible; Commissioner Lopez is talking into the microphone at the same time.) LOPEZ: Too much. Too much deviation. Geez, Louise. Can you zoom out so we can see it? HUSTACE: Yeah. LOPEZ: What's that? Zoom in now. `Cause there was an area that had the—What's that area that has those wiggly lines? 44 HUSTACE and KOSSOW: That's Kaloko Drive. LOPEZ: That's Kaloko? HUSTACE: Yeah. LOPEZ: Can we take that? HUSTACE: It's a tricky one because it's a really weird census block. Here we go. LOPEZ: Yeah, but it is a nice border. You got the Mamalahoa. Or if you took it all the way, including the six thirty-seven (637), and the thirty-nine (39). That's just because it's got to be HUSTACE: Yeah, for the top. LOPEZ: Yeah. Now where are we? Okay. HUSTACE: So, 7 is at negative four, and 8 is at negative three and a half. LOPEZ: The numbers work for me. (Indiscernible). Oh, we can't do that. HUSTACE: No, I know. Yeah, it's (indiscernible). LOPEZ: So, I ask Mr. Kossow how he feels about District 7 with those changes. It keeps the District 8 more makai side. It keeps the Kailua-Kona focus in District 8. To me, it's a cleaner cut-off. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just wanted to ask, why does Council 9 have to go so far down south? And it's got—Can we take some of that in `cause we're going to have to go back around to Waimea? LOPEZ: We did that because, well, to balance the numbers in the first draft. LUL Right. But it just seems like a really long stretch all the way down below Kona, all the way up to Hawl. LOPEZ: Oh, agreed. Well, we don't have a place to put it that needs numbers, other than District 1. Right? So, maybe if we hugged, if we went up higher—I don't know how to answer your questions. LUL It's a District 9 question. 45 LOPEZ: Yeah, okay. Yeah. So, I'd go back to—Before we go to District 9, I'd go back to Mr. Kossow. `Cause I want him to feel that it's acceptable to him, or comfortable, or if he has any disagreement with me on this suggestion. KOSSOW: I think I have to think about this one. It is a very Numbers wise it works, right? LOPEZ: Yeah. KOSSOW: And I appreciate that. And the connectivity works because it connects, sort of, the Holualoa Road, the Old Mamalahoa, into that district. I guess my only concern would be that few census blocks on the bottom of Kaloko. Ensuring that the main road would be the dividing point between kind of that mauka part of Kona, all the way to Kalaoa. And then that southern portion would be,you know, Council District 8-1 mean not southern, the makai-est portion would be Council District 8. LOPEZ: So, that's the Mamalahoa? KOSSOW: I believe that's the new Mamalahoa. LOPEZ: Highway 190? KOSSOW: Yeah. LOPEZ: Okay. KOSSOW: I think that's doable. I'm just having a little bit of a difficulty if Kaloko is too far. LOPEZ: Oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, think about it. We can come back. KOSSOW: Yeah. Absolutely. LOPEZ: So, at this point if we want to move on to District 9, I yield. HUSTACE: Chair and Commissioner Lopez, because Kalaoa kind of goes on both sides of the highway, right? It's like, mauka Kalaoa, makai Kalaoa? Or is this dividing Kalaoa here? KOSSOW: Not necessarily. They're not in one subdivision, so. Go ahead, Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: It's all wooded, and there's a large golf course in there. And some large properties. There's not a lot of residential, except until you get down here. Where that ninety (90) is. There's a lot of 46 KOSSOW: Yeah. It's primarily ranch land. There is some homes within the area, but they're primarily ranchers. Yeah, Hu`ehu`e, Alani, and some of the other ranches within that top portion of Kalaoa. And then, when you go down, you start heading into the `O`oma area, which is more connectivity too. The OTEC, for example, would be considered one congruent area. HUSTACE: So, is it an odd trade off to do the mauka area versus more of the Kona area here? KOSSOW: Well, you kind of split—If you go down into the area, you'll split communities, and I think that's what Mr. Lopez is kind of worried about here. LOPEZ: Yeah. Thank you. KOSSOW: But, if you do it on the mauka portions, at least you keep the communities pretty congruent, minus the bottom of Kaloko, which is something that Mr. Lopez and I will have to talk about. But, yeah. HUSTACE: Thanks. I'm just trying to think about this as well and learn more from you. In particular, these Nani Kailua areas, if that goes one way or the other, up to Hiona Street. I'm just trying to see if there are other ideas here. KOSSOW: Yeah, if you have any, let us know. HUSTACE: Can I make some suggestions? LOPEZ: In the interest of time, I would say, give Mr. Kossow a chance to consider this and let's move on to District 9. That's my suggestion. KOSSOW: Yeah. That'd be great for me. Could you save it? HUSTACE: Yeah. I will save it. If we're talking about 9 here, I think, you know, what Commissioner Lui said here, we probably don't want to go too far south. Especially with the shape that it's in right now. There'd be some changes here. This boundary line, right outside of Pu`u Nanisorry, Pu`u Anahulu area, would be a good kind of breaking point between the Kona region and the kind of upper South Kohala areas. Since because there's not a lot of population in here, there's just resort area, it could be part of the Kona areas. That'd be my suggestion. I'm not sure about the Pu`u Anahulu area. They could probably go either way. They probably travel to Kona more often. We're likely going to have to push more of 9 into Hamakua. `Cause right now Hamakua is in the positive. District 9 is in a negative by a bit. LUL That makes sense. LOPEZ: Is there opportunity in Hamakua to be absorbed by District 9? 47 HUSTACE: Well, we'd bring back some more of the Waimea area into the core there. So, we can start there. LOPEZ: And there's a lot of testimony about that. KOSSOW: What is the current Council 1 deviation? HUSTACE: Two point six (2.6) over, which is five seventy-eight(578). KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. HUSTACE: And Council 9 is 10.68 negative. Which is two thousand three hundred seventy-five (2,375). So right now, and this is one of the thoughts I had early on when we were talking about splitting Waimea, there's some interesting—The one we had it on for the proposed map may not have been the best. This is Waik6loa Stream, that runs up mauka. That's always a good breaking point, but I know there's testimony of, "This is too much of Waimea,", you know. But there already is the eastern side of Waimea that's cut out. So,just trying to give them more of a voice in the discussion. And there's some weird lines here, which we can try. LUL James? HUSTACE: Yes. LUL There's also some Hawaiian Homeland folks who identify more with Kawaihae. HUSTACE: Yes, that's correct, Commissioner. There's Kuhi6 Village here, is one from the Homestead areas. And then, Pu`u Kapu, which is just branching off of that. But that Pu`u Kapu goes—You can kind of the shaded gray area here. That's all Pu`u Kapu, and it has an interesting shape. `Cause it goes from the to the very east end of the town. LUL So, it may be that maybe some of those need to go into 9. HUSTACE: This whole land here outside the airport is planned for future development too, so it will change for the next commission, that's for sure. LUL Yikes. HUSTACE: So, this is the Pu`u Kapu area. You might want to have them all in the same district, in my personal opinion. You don't want to pack it. That's trying to keep that voice together. LUL Yeah, I agree with that. I think you got one little, tiny spot too. But you didn't grab HUSTACE: Along Kahilu Road, yeah. 48 LUL —out there. There it is. HUSTACE: Then, this goes out—all the fire roads out here. I think the original line is at—part of it's along Mealani Road, if I'm not mistaken, yeah. LUL I think Bronsten's original map had it at Kamamalu, moved up from White Road. Which also seemed like a good idea. HUSTACE: Oh. Kamamalu further into town then? Further into Waimea? KOSSOW: Yeah, that's what we did. LUL Yeah, I mean, that's just a possibility if we need to do numbers. HUSTACE: Alright, let me just adjust the other connectivity issues over here, up along old Saddle. Because some of these individuals here—There's a census block of eleven (11). They all associate with mostly Waimea, but also across the road here, the Waiki`i area. LUL James? HUSTACE: Yes. LUL I mean, I heard more from people in Wainaku, the area close to Hilo and of course, and Waimea, than I did from Hamakua itself. In a way, since they aren't living in those areas, shouldn't have as much to say as to which way it goes. However, I think it is a fairly poor, very rural area that's quite different from most other areas of the island. And people do feel that they have not gotten attention in terms of some of the recreational facilities, repairs, and highways, and things like that, that they need. So, I'm just suggesting too, that if we go into a negative,people don't mind that. Because Waimea and Hilo are so different. HUSTACE: Thank you. So, right now, pushing further into Hamakua has dropped Hamakua and Council 1 into negative eight(8). It's eighteen hundred (1,800), so we're going to have to—You know, that was based upon my proposals to push. As far as you pushed Waimea and Council 9 into Council 1, Council 1 has to push more into Hilo. That was kind of the tradeoff, right? LUL Yeah. If we could take a little bit more of Waimea. HUSTACE: For which district, Commissioner? LUL For 1. If we took a little bit more of 1, then maybe we could leave the boundary where it is now. Which is not Honoli`i, but farther south at whatever stream it was that we tried to figure out there. 49 HUSTACE: Yeah. I just don't—There's just a hard—There's some hard lines here in Waimea about. This is Mana Road. This is an entry point into Pu`u Kapu Homestead. As well as Kamamalu over here. So, Kamamalu, Mana Road, and then this census block is really large. So, I just wish I could. I don't know where to break some of these here. `Cause this is part of DHHL over here as well. LUL So, that should probably go back into 9 as well. HUSTACE: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting because it wasn't. I just put the yellow line up there that wasn't previously there, in the 2011 plan. That they had broken that off there. LUL Yeah. HUSTACE: And followed along Mana Road, for the most part here. So, like this one here. Which is zero right now. They basically followed Mana Road, up to the mauna. LOPEZ: What's the north of that area where you're HUSTACE: I'm sorry. Which one, Commissioner? LOPEZ: In District 9. You're focusing there. What's north of there? HUSTACE: That's all ravines. These are all the valleys. LOPEZ: Okay. So, there's nothing there except that thirty-two (32). That's nothing you can take from District 9 now. HUSTACE: No, these are all very hard geographical barriers. LOPEZ: Alright. Thank you. LUL Is there any part of Waimea, James, that you think would be more reasonable to move? HUSTACE: Um... You see the yellow line there, that's where it currently was. So, we've already given part of Mokuloa Subdivision, the rest of Pu`u Nani, up to the stream there, and then we've pushed into Mana. LOPEZ: What's in that three thirty-five (335) census block? HUSTACE: Three thirty-five (335) ... LOPEZ: Right there. 50 HUSTACE: Yeah. This is one I put on my census blocks to reevaluate because you have different subdivisions coming out from the Belt Road that go up mauka. So, these are And then, this census block stretches all the way into the center of town. You can see this is where the three roads come together. And then you have subdivisions jutting out along the highway. So, this census block needs to be redrawn. `Cause it goes to the core of Waimea and it has residences on the east end of it. I mean this is all commercial. This all right here is commercial, right here. This whole stretch is commercial. No one lives there. These are the churches of Waimea, and these are all residences. And yet, it's this one large block. LUL Yeah. HUSTACE: Let me pause it there for now because anyway, these hard barriers with the gulches, the valleys, the wa`a—Just not sure about the southern end so much either. Just that it's pushing that far south into Kona. I know they need some of the numbers, but they can give a little bit now that they're in the positive, for Council 9. Because I know that, see right now, 7 and 8 are still negative. So, it could give just to smooth that out a little bit more. The population isn't that great in some of these areas. It's all resort and coastal. So, for an example, we could propose that these, all of Kuki`o switches over. LOPEZ: Is that Waikoloa Village? HUSTACE: No, that's Pu`u Anahulu. Pu`u Lani Ranch, in that area. Yeah, so that's all — I think that's a pretty good line there to break between the Kona districts and 9. It does shift from where it was in the past. But it takes to the testimony. We had a lot of early testimony about Waikoloa Village, and the connectivity to the Waikoloa Beach. You see the yellow line there; it took residents that were in the beach resort away from their counterparts in the Waikoloa Beach and Village area. So, they should be put back together. LUL Right. HUSTACE: I think that's a pretty straight line dividing the Kona districts to . LUL And Council 9, as just pointed out is going to be one of the ones that grows a lot in the next like five years. HUSTACE: Well, you know, if you were watching the Leeward Planning Commission meetings, there's the Kumu Hou Project that's on the books. And then there are some Park Ranch lands that are slated for development too. So, Council 9 will be growing and has seen a steady growth through the years. I can leave it there for now. Let me see. The tricky thing we still have an issue with 1 though, for sure. And trying to figure out where. LUL One (1) is at a negative eight, so we just need to not that bad. 51 HUSTACE: Just want to try and get closer. See if we can get to that. If you mind, we can just swap back and forth. KOSSOW: District 2? HUSTACE: Yeah, District 2 is a Hilo district. So, we drew that. Today we drew the line at—yeah. LUL Is there anything in 2 mauka that is available for grabbing? HUSTACE: It's this weird census block here. LUL Yeah. That's not good. If you keep going up,there's nothing. It just goes into the Reserves. HUSTACE: Yeah, nothing. It's all mountain. Mountain, yup. It's just the sheep station up there. That's all. YOSHINA: So, James? Question from Dwayne. HUSTACE: Yes, Commissioner. YOSHINA: What is that yellow line in there now? HUSTACE: Oh, sorry. I can take that off. That's the 2011 map. YOSHINA: Okay. So, 2011, where was the southern boundary of District P HUSTACE: Wailuku River. YOSHINA: Okay. So, if we went back to Wailuku River, which, you know, is difficult for me anyway, would that add to District P How many? HUSTACE: Let me give you—What I will do is I'll add `em back into District 1, and I'll give you the numbers now, and I'll give you the numbers after. If that's okay? YOSHINA: Okay. HUSTACE: So, let me save it now and then I can make an edit. Then I can undo it,just so we know what's going on here. So, right now, with the changes that we made to the western edge of Council 1 in the Waimea area, Council 1 currently sits at negative 8.45. Which is negative 1,878. And Council 2 is at 5.01 positive. Which is 1,114. That's where it is right now, and I'll make the adjustment so we can see what it looks like. So, if we did push it back to Wailuku, this is what it would look like. So, if we did push it, Council 1 would be negative 2.01. Which is negative 447. And Council 2 would be negative 1.43. 52 Which is negative 317. And if we did that, we could take from Council 3 and put into 2 to reduce 3 down from where it is. That's just a proposal. YOSHINA: Is there some way to include the Pi`ihonua community as one? Into a single population base? HUSTACE: My question back to you Commissioner is, I don't really know where that northern boundary of Pi`ihonua is. And where it currently is, based upon the 2011 map, they drew the line at Wailuku, right? So, is that the northern boundary of Pi`ihonua? Or does Pi`ihonua go up to `Amauulu even? YOSHINA: See part of the problem with Pi`ihonua is the old plantation camps have been divided. And so, if we could somehow includeI forget the camp numbers, but I think it was 2, 3, 4, into a single population base, then it's okay. Because beyond that is what they call `Amauulu yeah. So, if there's someway to include the relatively small number of people in Pi`ihonua, I don't know the camp numbers but, if we could push them into District 2, then my lynching won't be as painful. LUL Yeah, I agree with that too. If we can find it, it doesn't look like there's all that many people. It would mean that Council 1 had just a slightly less of a negative deviation—Council 2. So, it wouldn't give you as much room to push into 3 but, yeah. But at least 1 and 2 are okay in terms of the deviations. And you could take more of 3 and put into 2 at that rate too. YOSHINA: Although I have to deal with Wainaku community, I think that might be okay. LUL Yeah. We're used to being screwed. (Laughter.) HUSTACE: This census block—You know, I think, `cause I'm looking at it closely here. So, I'm trying to work along this road called `Amauulu Road. So, you go across Wailuku, the next road over is `Amauulu and you said Pi`ihonua is more mauka. LUL Yes. Opposite the river. YOSHINA: `Amauulu Road might be a good dividing line. HUSTACE: And so just to be clear, I've gone up across Wailuku, across `Amauulu. So, anything between `Amauulu and Wailuku has now been put into Council 2. I'll just be clear, once again we have this weird block. Because there's some mauka portions here and this one block up here, that has the snake tendrils that drops down into Honoli`i and above Wailuku, and through Pi`ihonua, spans this whole area. So, there's roads and probably people living along `Amauulu, up along `Awehi Stream. But if you also go further over towards the Honoli`i side, there's also Kaiwiki Road. And I don't know if people live in up there. This census block shows that there's seventy-nine (79)people that live there in this tendril census block. 53 LUL I don't know if those areSo, are you saying you think those might be DHHL land? HUSTACE: I could only guess on that, Commissioner. I'm not sure. LUL Yeah, yeah. Go ahead, Dwayne. YOSHINA: I think the mauka areas of Pi`ihonua are DHHL. HUSTACE: Okay. YOSHINA: That was LUL But not really—There's not really communities of people there. YOSHINA: No, not—They haven't built yet. LUL Right, right. So, I would be okay with that being in either one. If there's a split there, that seems like it's okay. YOSHINA: Okay. HUSTACE: Well, I welcome some thoughts from the other commissioners on this too. Because if this makes sense to you, between—if you see what I'm trying to do here. LUL Between 1 and 2. HUSTACE: Yeah, between 1 and 2. So, you have thisI know I have all of these highlighted. Let me get rid of the other yellow line here so it's not too confusing. But this little thin yellow line is that census block that's causing some issues. And on the left hand—like this little push out up mauka, residences up there. And then there are roads. You can see some of the roads here. So, I'm assuming people live in this vicinity, along these areas. But then, if you go up by above mauka of Honoli`i Stream, there's roads up here too. So, this census block has tied mauka Honoli`i with mauka Pi`ihonua. I'm not sure what is the best way. If it needs to be in 2, so it's all—It'd probably be the better way that way, so it's all with Pi`ihonua. That'd be my guess. LUL Right. What does that do when you do it that way? Is that still what you've got now, negative point three... HUSTACE: Yeah. Three four six (3.46), negative seven seventy (770). And Council 2 is positive point zero three (03), which is six people. YOSHINA: Yeah. I could live with that. 54 HUSTACE: Okay. LUL Yeah. HUSTACE: So, we also need to take a little bit from 2 and 3, this border here then, to try and balance it a little bit as well. Just to bring down Council 3's number below six percent. LUL Yeah, so there's room to do that. We've got eight percent to work with, in terms of switching things around. YOSHINA: So, I'd like to hear from Commissioner from Council District 3. KOSSOW: Hold on one second. Mr. Hustace actually still has the floor through this conversation. So, do you yield? HUSTACE: Yeah. I mean, thank you, Chair. I'm still not sold on the Waimea area. I have some concern about that, but we can come back to that. It's looking pretty good. It does give a little bit more people in east Waimea some companionship comradery with their neighbors. So, more of a vote and that may impact Hamakua a little bit more. For me, it's not possible to get all of Waimea. Not just for me, it's for the number's sake. And I don't think we've had testimony. It makes me a little upset to say this, but it doesn't make sense and it's not possible based on the numbers, to have all of Waimea, all of North Kohala, and all of Waikoloa together. The numbers—I've tried that on maps, and I welcome people to look at those maps that I've submitted. But it doesn't work. The numbers are too great, and so it's based upon where we can find that common ground in dividing part of Waimea with considering that we're forgetting part of Waimea. So, I'm not completely sold on where the lines are, but we can talk about it a little bit more. But the southern boundary I'm happy with. It keeps with the testimony we had about Waikoloa Beach Resort. It keeps them all together with Waikoloa. It's a clear line. We still have to tinker a little bit with the south in the Kona area. But it's a clear line that should have been done previously. It's an interesting clear line from mauka. Okay. I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL James, now Council 1, with the negative 3, it does give a little bit of room to Waimea to take a little bit more out of 1. Because we've got another 0.2 deviation that we can go, but it's only what a hundred something people though. HUSTACE: Yeah. So,just kind of these things bordering Mana Road would be my guess in this area. And this road over here. Let's see if I can highlight it. This road is—Let me zoom in actually. It might be a little bit easier to see. This is Mealani Road. It kind of connects part of DHHL and these areas here. It's not really a—It's not a usable road. It's a maybe deemed for emergency use in the future. But some of these in the area could be 55 possible. Or this one here so. Let me think on it and we can come back there. Thank you. I'll yield again. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, you actually still have the floor so if you want to go ahead and yield. LUL I yield too. KOSSOW: Thank you. Any further discussion? Before we go over to 2 and 3. (No response.) Okay. Let's head over to the border between 2 and 3. YOSHINA: Yeah, so Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne. I think I'd like to hear from the District 3 Commissioner. AH NEE: Aloha, Chair. Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Aloha, Ms. Ah Nee. Mr. Yoshina, do you go ahead and yield? YOSHINA: I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you. Sorry for this process. Ms. Ah Nee, go ahead. AH NEE: Aloha, Chair. I think if, could we just work on maybe taking a look at some of the blocks in Hilo that is just at that border of District 2 and 3. Just to see how we could help with those lines. I'm not going to be able to satisfy everybody. I understand that but I think if we can do it in a working manner, maybe we can see where those numbers can start to even out a little bit. I don't mind working in the Manono block as well. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ah Nee. Mr. Hustace just let me know that it's about five hundred (500) individuals we need in order to balance out District 2 and District 3. So, Mr. Yoshina or Ms. Ah Nee, do you guys have any preference on the area? YOSHINA: This is Dwayne. We can try look at that Manono block area. Is that up now? I'm sorry, you know, my eyesight is bad. HUSTACE: So, Chair, it's these. Let me turn on the current boundary lines so you see where it is. The current boundary line actually cuts up away from Manono. So, we could—There are two blocks here along Manono that aren't in it. So, we could at least start there. Other suggestions would be along Kawili Street, along the university. Because the university split right here. So,putting that all in District 2. And just hugging Kawili Street is a possibility and moving these over. There's some larger blocks in here too. Like this one is five hundred and sixty-six (566). Are those students? AH NEE: Chair, Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee. 56 AH NEE: I believe that is University Heights. So, they come off of Mohouli. I believe that might be University Heights. It could be the dorms, but I don't think—It's kind of hard to argue that they would be permanent residents. But I'm thinking those who might have taken the census got plopped into that block there. I yield. KOSSOW: Can you zoom into that? Is there a street on the mauka portion of that census block? Go back down to the yeah, that five hundred (500). HUSTACE: Kumukoa and Lanikaula. KOSSOW: Okay. The five seventy-one (571), I believe, is the University Heights. So, yeah that would be the university, right? HUSTACE: Yup. Would it be possible to put—Because of that one switch with the—get all of the university there then? The grounds here. I mean it's zero population. YOSHINA: Yeah, that would be good with me. HUSTACE: So, then it would switch there. So, it goes almost the full length of Manono, where it hits Kawili Street. Then goes up Lanikaula, down to Kapiolani. Is that what it is? Then once again to Kawili. And then it really hugs the campus down the edge. It evens the numbers out there. Council 2, with these changes, I'll zoom out so you can see it. Council 2 is at positive three point two (3.2), which is seven hundred and twelve (712). And Council 3 is positive four point six nine (4.69), which is a thousand and forty-three (1,043). So, both fall within the parameters. YOSHINA: Okay, that's good with me. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, maybe give us an update on the deviations for the council districts. HUSTACE: For the entirety? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. So, currently, Council 1 is negative three point four six (3.46). Which is, at negative 3.46, which is negative seven seventy (770). Council 2 is positive three point two (3.2). Which is a positive seven hundred and twelve (712). Council 3 is positive four point six nine (4.69). That's one thousand and forty-three (1,043). Council 4 is a positive of four point five nine (4.59)percent. For a total of one thousand and twenty (1,020). Council 5 is a positive three point seven one (3.71). Which is a positive of eight hundred and twenty-five (825) individuals. Council 6 is negative five point five one (5.51)percent. That's negative one thousand two hundred twenty-six (1,226)people. Council 7 is negative four point one (4.1), for negative nine hundred and eleven (911). Council 8 is negative one point two one (1.21), for negative two seventy 57 (270). And Council 9 is negative one point eight nine (1.89), for a total negative of negative four twenty-one (421). KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Anybody want to look at a district before I ask Mr. Hustace to go back to the Kona side? (No response.) Okay, back to the Kona side. Can you zoom in to—Mr. Lopez, I have a couple questions. I think the Nani Kailua area, if you can scroll into that portion there, that census block at that 374, I would like to keep that in 8. And the reason for it is, I kind of want to use Wai`aha Stream as the boundary between 8 and 7. And then I would like toIf you can go back out and then head over to Kaloko. Right on the bottom portion here, I would put that portion, that bottom part, this right here, into Council District 7. `Cause there's really no road that runs through that portion. Yeah, you have the Old Government Road, but the main road would be the main thing. Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Are you asking? KOSSOW: Yeah. LOPEZ: I'd be very happy with that. You're following a major artery, and you're keeping the boundary with 7 in that mauka side of the highway. That would be fine. KOSSOW: Okay. And then the other portion was Wai`aha Stream, would be theI was trying to think about what would be a good boundary line—What's a good way to physically see the difference between 7 and 8. And I think Wai`aha Stream is LOPEZ: You'd have to do that first. KOSSOW: Yeah. If you can go ahead and do the Kaloko first. Thank you. Put all of that into 7. That's going to be the mauka portion of this road here. LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Talking away from the microphone.) KOSSOW: It would be best if it goes all the way. `Cause that whole area is one community, I think. And then, if we go back down towards Nani Kailua, that census block is very odd. Because one portion of it goes all the way to Hualalai Road, but there's that one street that is a part of Nani Kailua. And I want to keep that all together. So, if we can put that into 8. The big one three seventy-four (374). Okay, and then Wai`aha Stream, you kind of see that on the top there. You see that? Yeah, so everything north of that, those four census blocks, can go up to 8. And then this big one, on the mauka side of it, how many is that? HUSTACE: Just you would cut the connectivity to Kaloko though. KOSSOW: Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. This is correct then. Sorry. I was following the Stream going up. Okay, go ahead and zoom back into Nani Kailua. Okay, yeah. Is that okay with Mr. Lopez? 58 LOPEZ: I'm very happy with that solution. Thank you. KOSSOW: Okay. Mr. Hustace, would you mind adding that three hundred and seventy- four(374), and then there's that one hundred and ten (110), into your census block irregularities? HUSTACE: Okay. Let me make a note of this. Could you tell me which one? I have to go to a different to do that, so. KOSSOW: Oh, okay. So, it's that 374 on the bottom right next to Nani Kailua, on the bottom part of Nani Kailua. HUSTACE: This one here? KOSSOW: Yeah, that's the one. HUSTACE: I'm just going to describe it, Chair. And then when I go back to that map, I can add it in. If that's okay? KOSSOW: Yeah, that's fine. Thank you. Now that I look at it again, it's a little weird because the Stream actually cuts right through this census block. And there's a road that connects all the way to the bottom. So, it doesn't I don't understand how come it didn't get split. HUSTACE: Okay. So, I just made a note of that. Was there another one, Chair? KOSSOW: Yeah. If you go a little bit more north of this,just a little bit. This one right here, 110. HUSTACE: This one here, Chair? KOSSOW: Yeah. So, there's houses on the bottom part, then it goes agriculture all the way through. But you can kind of see there's a subdivision on the mauka portion. So, that probably needs to get split. HUSTACE: (Pause.) Okay. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. And then, I just want to kind of look at a bird's eye view of the boundaries between 7 and 8. Just so I can get an understanding. Okay, yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. The other one I wanted to talk to Mr. Lopez about is up on the northern portion. Well, they're both all north now. If you go all the way over here, now, I don't know if this is going to be a little bit weird to adjust. We talk about the mauka portions in Kona. Does that ring true for like parts of Pu`u Anahulu? But I understand that 8 would be more better representation for the people of Pu`u Anahulu and Pu`u Wa`awa`a area. 59 LOPEZ: Would you might be able to rephrase the question? KOSSOW: Oh, I'm sorry. My concern is, we're doing the mauka portion of downtown Kona. And so, you'd want that to be same going all the way into Pu`u Wa`awa`a and Pu`u Anahulu. LOPEZ: I don't see the need that I would have to keep that in District 8. If it makes sense to 7 or 9. I don't—It's all right at Hawaii Belt Road, yeah. I would suggest 9 because they probably have more of an affinity to Waimea than 7, but. I'm open. KOSSOW: My thinking, even when it comes to getting up to the summit of Hualalai, I think we want to keep in that one district. And I remember we used to go through Kalaoa to get up there. So, I think that's fine the way it is. I'm just a little worried about, you know,just the connectivity with that. Is that one census block? If you, can you scroll down towards the road here. Yeah. Oh, is it twenty-seven (27)people within that area? LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Talking away from the microphone.) KOSSOW: Okay. And then where is Pu`u Wa`awa`a on this map? Right there. Okay. HUSTACE: Pu`u is right here, yeah. And then Pu`u Anahulu just up the road there. KOSSOW: Okay. Go back south. Can we put those two census blocks, the two zeros into 8? HUSTACE: These here? KOSSOW: Yeah. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map projected onto the screen.) Hmm. That's one whole census block? That hundred and nine (109). LOPEZ: You got two others up there as a five, and a seven, and a twenty-seven (27). Right above that. HUSTACE: Yeah, the 109 there, Chair, it's one of the ones that I marked as irregularity. `Cause it's Pu`u Lani Ranch but it goes all the way up towards the summit. That's a terrible block. I'd just point that out. KOSSOW: I'm okay with this based off of what we have right now. Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: No objection. It would seem that those mauka blocks, that 109 all the way up to that whole thing should beI mean if you wanted to put that in 7, I'd have no issue with that. In fact, that whole section in there—Well, that's way too many. Twenty-four seventy-one (2,471)that'd kill us. Can't do that. HUSTACE: That's just the census blocks groups. So, it's showing 60 LOPEZ: Oh, okay. (Laughter.) HUSTACE: If I zoom out, you can see much larger numbers and it's including all the ones closer. LOPEZ: Forget that. If you wanted—Only because of clear lines and blocks, I would have no issue if you wanted to go all the way up to the Hawaii Belt Road with that. I don't see—Do those people on Pu`u AnahuluThat's like twenty-two (22) miles from downtown Kona. Of course, it's a lot farther for you. KOSSOW: Yeah. Okay. If that census block, where the twenty-seven (27) is, by the road, if that was split into half, that twenty-seven (27) is probably in Pu`u Wa`awa`a, and then some ranchland in between. If had that been split, then I would have gone all the way down to the road. But, being that it isn't, I think what we have is LOPEZ: Yeah. Doesn't make sense to take that and leave the rest of it. KOSSOW: Yeah. LOPEZ: Okay. KOSSOW: Alright. Do we have any other discussion? HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Would it be possible to kind of fix some of the inland census blocks and the continuity and the contiguousness for some of them? KOSSOW: Yeah, absolutely. HUSTACE: Okay. For this purpose, and you know, as the map I proposed this morning was based off of the 2011 lines,just because the work that they did, as well as understanding some of those boundaries. So, without having to do too much more than those, I mean, we can push some of these lines to where they need to be, where there's zero population. And I welcome some thoughts on that as well. For example, these things that are upper, the summit of Mauna Loa, and just the connectivity in here too. I'm not that well-versed in some of the connectivity up into these mauka portions. And there are old trails and so forth, but yeah. Thank you. KOSSOW: Let me do a little bit more research into it. Because I have a map that looks at the Old Jeep Road that goes up into that area. And I believe it starts where we talked about. I believe the line that they created in the last redistricting commission was probably pretty accurately close to it. Let me just take a minute to look at that. 61 HUSTACE: Sure. We can play some music for you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you. (Pause.) Okay. Thank you for your patience. If you can do the original boundary line, I think that should be fine. HUSTACE: Okay, Chair. So, I just turned on the one, the plan from what is current, the 2020, came from 2011 commission work. So, we see that, for example, Council 7 should be in these upper reaches, up here. (Pause.) Although we had conversation, Chair, about PTA and having connectivity to the Hilo side. So,we did keep that as our original plan. If that's okay? KOSSOW: Yup. HUSTACE: Thank you. So, I did follow those original lines there, up on the mauka portions in the center of the island. KOSSOW: Alright. Thank you. Do we have any other discussion for the map? (No response.) Is there anything that's over or under deviation? HUSTACE: Looking pretty good. I still have some thoughts. I want to make some changes in the Waimea area though. KOSSOW: Okay. Go ahead. HUSTACE: I just want to see how it affects our numbers here. For example, pushing Let's see. So, this is Mana Road, pushing to Mealani Road here at least. I just want to see how this works. It still would keep Council 1 under—within parameters. So, I'd be happy with something like that. LUL Yeah. That's fine. HUSTACE: Thank you. Chair, I can read the numbers off if anyone needs or go anywhere if any of the commissioners want to look at things. KOSSOW: Yeah, go ahead. You can go ahead and read those. HUSTACE: Thank you. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. Mr. Lopez, did you have something? LOPEZ: No. I'll come up after this is done. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. Go ahead. 62 HUSTACE: Thanks, Chair. I'm just checking also the ocean ones as well. You know, we may have toI don't know if we have to vote to break these, if we want the line to be very clear out from the ocean. I'm not sure how that works, that part of the process. For example, let me put these so that they're with their assigned council that is adjacent to them. (Pause.) Okay. KOSSOW: After you read the deviation numbers, if you can go ahead and do the connectivity check too. HUSTACE: Okay. You got it. Okay, so here we go. Council 1, with these changes here, Council 1 is negative 5.51. That's a negative one thousand two hundred twenty-six (1,226) individuals. Council 2 is a positive 3.2, for seven hundred and twelve (712) people. Council 3 is positive 4.69, for a positive of one thousand and forty-three (1,043) individuals. Council 4 is 4.59 positive. That's one thousand and twenty (1,020) individuals. Council 5 is a positive of 3.71 percent. That's eight hundred twenty-five (825) individuals positive. Council 6, negative 5.51. That's negative one thousand two hundred twenty-six (1,226) individuals. Council 7 is negative 3.04. That's negative six hundred and seventy-six (676) individuals. Council 8 is negative 2.27 percent, for negative five-o-five (505). And Council 9 is positive 0.16, for thirty-five (35). LUL Meizhu. Hi. Sorry. I just did the total check, and we're 0.02 from the ten percent. So, we're really practically at zero, in terms of the overall deviation. I yield. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: What were the numbers on District 2,please again? The population numbers. I yield. HUSTACE: That's positive 3.2, for a positive of seven hundred and twelve (712). BATH: Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: We've done an exceptional job here, Commissioners. I thank you all for compromises and the real strong teamwork to get here. At this point, I move that we accept this—Well, we table this. That we go off individually and assess if it's acceptable to each of us. And then we come back Tuesday and revisit this with any particular recommendations that individual commissioners may make, and we go from there. And finish the agenda, and adjourn the meeting, at this point. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez, you yield? 63 LOPEZ: (Indiscernible; Talking away from the microphone.) KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Can you give me the—What draft that we're looking at? I mean, that we can find the map at. KOSSOW: No problem. It's called, CoH Working Doc 1-5. HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, you yield? YOSHINA: Yes. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: But the doc isn't I have to share it yet. So, I haven't shared it out yet. KOSSOW: Oh. HUSTACE: So, it will be available. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. HUSTACE: And just soI did flag an integrity test fail though. We're not quite at that ten percent, the maximum deviation. LUL I don't understand that because I did the addition and subtraction. So, I don't really understand that total deviation. How it's arrived at. Can somebody explain? HUSTACE: Yeah. No problem. So, Commissioner Lui, you arrive at that number by taking the lowest deviation. So, in this case, it's negative 5.5 1, and you take the range between that one and the highest one. So, you basically add 4.69 to 5.51. Throw out the negative. Just you want the range between the two. LUL Between the lowest and highest, okay. I didn't understand that. HUSTACE: Yeah. It's interesting. So, you're basically just calculating the range. So, you take 5.5 1, and then you would add 4.69. And so, we're at 10.2 percent. So, we're a little bit outside of parameters in total. So, we need to do a little tinkering still yet on some of the boundaries. LUL Or we could argue for why we're a little over. 64 HUSTACE: That one might be a little harder to do, I think. LUL Yeah. (Indiscernible; Audio cut in and out.) KOSSOW: Okay, everybody, do you guys' yield? Okay, thank you. Ms. Bath. BATH: Just a minute. I lost my thought. Would it be possible—How many people do we need to move? Could you get that number? Can you give us the number of how many we're dealing with, to move, to make that deviation thing go away? Or make it balanced? LUL It's 0.2. So, it's like tiny. I don't know, what, fifty (50) maybe? Hundred(100)? It's not much. BATH: Can we all maybe just now take a look and see what we could give or take to make that complete for today? KOSSOW: So, from my understanding, is that we would have to increase the numbers in 1 and 6. And then we will have to decrease numbers in 3 or 4. Right? Okay. Ms. Bath, you yield? BATH: I do. Thank you. KOSSOW: Okay. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thanks, Chair. Yeah, exactly that. So, the two districts, 1 and 6, they are negative 5.51. Need to gain just a little bit more. And Councils 3 and 4 need to lose just a little bit. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: There was a motion on the floor that never got addressed. I never heard a second. Went off into a tangent. So, I'd like to recall that motion,please? KOSSOW: Okay. Motion's on the table. Is there a second? (No response.) Just to refresh everybody, your motion was to just table LOPEZ: My motion was to table this map and come back Tuesday after we've had a chance to review it and really think about how it affects us individually, and close it out on Tuesday. KOSSOW: Okay. Motion's on the table. Is there a second? (No response.) LOPEZ: Okay. Failed. 65 KOSSOW: Alright. Motion fails. Alright, we'll go back to overall deviation range. I believe Ms. Ford has her hand up. Ms. Ford, if you can unmute your Zoom. You can go ahead. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (part 3) BRENDA FORD FORD: Thank you. You guys have done a phenomenal job for the day. I have to give you credit for that. And I agree with the deviations that obviously, the machine, that computer, came up with. Because I've been sitting here, kind of anxiously going, it's over ten. You don't want to wind up in a lawsuit. So, but you're going to deal with that. And it's better that you deal with it today. So, then you can think about what the real problem is. I have a couple issues. One is, Kailua Village, in my opinion, does not need to be cut in half. And you're doing that. It doesn't seem to me to be reasonable to make the lines the way you've done it. And I'll just leave it at that. The other thing is, over in the area between District 1 and District 2, it's bizarre because of that strange district that you have over there, that census block. It just doesn't make any sense not to add a little bit of the areaI'm losing my train of thought on this one. But you need to work on those. I'm just going to say you need to work on those two areas. One of the reasons that district in 2, that's got seventy-nine (79)persons in it a lot of those. I kept those districts up in the mauka areas together was not only because of jeep trails, but also because of the forest reserves. That's just what I did. It's not absolutely necessary that you consider that. But it's something I did. All the way up into the mauka areas of District 2, you've got jeep roads up there. If you expand your map large enough, you will see those jeep roads up in those areas. And you've just plunked them into a different district. And there's no way to get to those roads unless you come in through District 2 makai area. You can see those district areas if you expand the map enough. I really consider that a serious problem because it's just a problem. I'm not even going to go into why. You guys all know why. So, those two things, and three things, I really think you need to work on the district boundary on 1. And between, hold on—since you pulled down the thing the boundaries on 1 and 6 are 5.51. And 3 and 4 are 4.69 (indiscernible) and 4.59. Those don't need to be adjusted that much to get`em down into a reasonable level. But you need to work on that. And maybe you can think about it over the weekend here. So, those are the things that I'm looking that. I am particularly disturbed by Kailua Village. When I'm telling you, I'm not going to get all wound up about Hawaiian Paradise Park because I've spoke to the issue of not splitting up that subdivision. This is my third time I'm speaking against doing that, and the public comes in and speaks against it, but you're still trying to do it. It would mean a drastic change in your map. I understand that. You can do what you want as long as you are within a total deviation of ten. You can get away with it. And you don't have to do a whole lot of writing to say, well, we cut this thing off because "X," whatever your reason is. I don't find your reasoning to be good enough, but that's a personal opinion. And it would still be legal if you can justify it to your districts. I'm going to yield at that point. I'll see you guys next Tuesday. 66 KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ford. I think we wanted to go over the deviations for 1, 3, 6, and whatever the other one was. Two (2)? HUSTACE: Yes, Chair. So, 1 and 6 are negative 5.51. And 3 and 4 are both in the positive, 4.69 and 4.59. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. BATH: Chair, do we have access to this map that we're working with now, with all the deviations? KOSSOW: Not quite yet. After today, it will be available for you folks. BATH: Okay. `Cause it's kind of hard to HUSTACE: I can share it now, Chair. If that's alright? KOSSOW: Okay. No problem. BATH: I yield. KOSSOW: It will be shared here in just a second. HUSTACE: Just sharing it so that people can see it on their computers. (Pause) Okay, you should be able to see it momentarily, I believe. Thank you. (Pause.) Chair, a possibility is giving a little bit more of 3 to 2. Not much, but something small. Which is tough. We have some nice lines here. KOSSOW: Any suggestions from the Hilo members? BATH: It's Stephanie. Has the map loaded yet? HUSTACE: Yes. It should be shared with you, Commissioner Bath. BATH: And the name is? HUSTACE: The name is CoH Working Doc 1-5. BATH: Thank you. I'll look for it. HUSTACE: Chair, that was just one possibility. Let me think about some other ones here too. So, the possibility is to give—Because Council 3 is at positive 4.69, is to unload that a little bit to its neighboring district. So, either give a little bit to 3 or you give a little bit toNo, 5 is not connected, so we can't do that but. Otherwise, you have to give 1 and 6 just a little bit more. 67 KOSSOW: Can you zoom in right over there? Between the 6 and 7. (Pause.) Can you put that ninety-four(94) and the two hundred and forty-five (245) into Council 6? (Pause) And what does that bring it at? HUSTACE: That brings 6 to negative 3.99. And 7 is negative 4.57. I might have been But the thing is we still have to deal with 1 as well. So, it would only—That's why I was thinking of the two challenges we have, you get rid of the highest high, and you leave the two lows low, I guess. KOSSOW: I see. HUSTACE: That's just one train of thought there. LUL I mean there could be a fairly small piece of Hilo that could be moved from 1 to 2. But those strangeIf there's anything below—What's in the middle of that strange shape? Between 1 and 2. Oh, sorry. You're working on something. HUSTACE: Sorry. I'm just tinkering with the just looking at some possibilities here. LUL Yeah. Go ahead. That's fine. (Pause.) KOSSOW: Well, since we're hitting the 2:30 mark, I'm going to call for a five-minute recess. We'll come back on here at 2:35. Thank you. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Calling the meeting back into order. We were on readjusting the deviation. So, the ones that we need to concentrate on is the deviation for 1 and 2, or 1 and 9. HUSTACE: Somehow, we gotta get Council 1 a little bit, Chair. Or/and 6 and little bit too. KOSSOW: What is 9's deviation? HUSTACE: It's a positive of thirty-five (35)people. KOSSOW: Okay. Maybe let's start on that side. I know that might be a little bit difficult. LUL Commissioner Lui. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I don't think we want to take any more of Waimea from what James' said. So, if we're going to move a little bit more into 1, it probably should come from Hilo. I think 68 there's some smaller parcels down there, census blocks. If that's okay. Yeah, I mean, given that there's that weird shape, if we could just grab a little bit out of, I don't know, some of that area. Maybe in the more mauka, top side. Oh. Huh. I mean even taking it down to 5.09 is going to work, in terms of the ten. HUSTACE: That's correct. Yeah, Commissioner. And then we just have to give a little bit to 6 as well. LUL Yeah. That's cool. HUSTACE: And then the one that, Chair Kossow, you proposed was potentially this grouping there. Did you want to see how that looked, Chair? KOSSOW: That'd be great. Thanks. HUSTACE: Okay. So, with those two quick changes, let me just test the math's here. So, it does pass then, with those two little changes. KOSSOW: Alright. Thanks, everybody. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Do we still need some population from 3 into 2? HUSTACE: No, we don't actually, Commissioner. I think we're okay for right now. YOSHINA: Oh. And so, what do I have to justify on the northern boundary with District P Sorry, I missed that. HUSTACE: No problem. So, our total deviation is 9.78 with those two changes. Giving 6 just a little bit more and giving 1 a little bit more. And I'll go over there, Commissioner Yoshina, so you can see what—the change we made. We did move that weird census block that connects Honoli`i through the Pi`ihonua area. So, that went back into 1. And then just a couple of blocks. It was only about a hundred (100)people, the upper reaches of `Amauulu Road. YOSHINA: Yeah. Okay. HUSTACE: But the lower makai portion of`Amauulu Road is still there, in Council 2. YOSHINA: Okay. Is there a consideration that there is only one road up there? (No response.) I guess not. Okay. Thank you. 69 LUL Well, if we kept the one—Are you concerned about the odd-shaped one, Dwayne? The one that might have DHHL land. Is that the one you're concerned about? YOSHINA: I was trying to—There's that concept of having a road that goes in and out. LUL Uh-huh. Accessibility. YOSHINA: I'm not certain that it's connected on the upper reaches to District 1. LUL Well, it passed the connectivity test so that our ESRI thinks so. (Laughter.) Even if we might not. YOSHINA: Well, that's good. Thank you. HUSTACE: Commissioner, the people driving to the upper reaches there of—would be able to go up `Amauulu Road. It borders 1 and 2 there. So, it divides right down that `Amauulu Road. YOSHINA: Thank you. LUL So, now is it appropriate to move that we keep this for now, and we still have a chance to take another look at it before we come back on Tuesday to make a final decision? Can I move that we put this into our computers and, you know, really look hard at it one last time? Give us a weekend to do that. KOSSOW: Okay. There's a motion to table. Is there a second? BATH: I second. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath seconds. Any discussion? YOSHINA: So,just for my edification, we will be looking at CoH Working Document 1.5? HUSTACE: One dash five (1-5), yes. YOSHINA: 1-5. Okay. Thank you. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? (No response.) Mr. Kauka, call the roll. Ms. Lui moved to table CoH WorkingDoc 1-5 and return to it on Tuesday. Seconded by Ms. Bath. The motion to table CoH WorkingDoc 1-5 and return to it on Tuesday was carried by the following vote: 70 Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Bath, Lopez, Lui, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Yadao. KAUKA: Chair, there are eight ayes. KOSSOW: Okay. The draft has been tabled for the next meeting on the 21st 2. Report Transmitting a Final Plan KOSSOW: I'm going to go ahead and table the Report Transmitting a Final Plan. This was just in the event that we successfully completed the plan. Mr. Kauka, is there any testifiers? KAUKA: No, Chair, that concludes our testifiers. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Lopez? LOPEZ: Yes, pardon me. Is Ms. Ford still on? FORD: Yes, I am. LOPEZ: I just didn't want to close the meeting without expressing my humble apologies for including you in the term politicians. FORD: Thank you so much. (Laughter.) I never have used that term. It makes the shivers go up my spine! Ugh! LOPEZ: I understand. FORD: Thanks, Steve. Bye-bye. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just have a question. I really thank Brenda for sticking with us all through all of this and just being there the whole time. That was really above and beyond the call of duty. I just wondered, is public testimony closed now? KOSSOW: Public testimony is closed. However,people can submit testimony because we do have meetings. So, we had testifiers testify for today's meeting, and they also have time to testify for the meeting on the 21st LUL I see. Okay, thank you. 71 KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Chair, what item of business are we on? KOSSOW: Well, I just tabled Business Number 2, and so we're heading over to announcements. HUSTACE: And I guess I just have a question about the map we just worked on, based off of the draft proposed plan that we built today. So, it's Working Doc 1-5. Can we get this uploaded on the website? The public domain website? KOSSOW: Is Elections available to answer that question? KAUKA: Chair, we have a member of the Elections staff making their way to the microphone. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you very much. KA`AHANUI-HOYOHOY: Hi, this is Debbie. Yes, we'll go ahead and get it up. HUSTACE: Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. MELLON-LACEY: Yes. Just for the record, I want to clarify. Public testimony is never closed. These are open meetings and public testimony can always be taken. And although you've tabled the map, you haven't voted that this is your final map. And so,people can still provide public testimony. And anyone listening, you know, we urge them to do so or to tell their friends because we always have public testimony. KOSSOW: Great. Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis. KOSSOW: Go ahead, Mr. Kauka. KAUKA: We'll also, with the Elections Office working with the publicI'm sorry, to get the CoH Working Doc 1.5 onto the public website—Once it's up there, we'll send a note to our subscribers also. So, that they see the difference between the draft plan and the newest iteration leading into Tuesday's meeting. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Anything else before I move over to announcements? (No response.) Okay. Mr. Kauka, if you want to go ahead and read the announcements. 72 ANNOUNCEMENTS KAUKA: Sure, Chair. Thank you. Just that the next regular meeting of the Commission is scheduled for Tuesday, December 21, 2021, at 9:30 a.m. Again, you can watch archive videos of the Commission's past sessions on our YouTube channel, by searching for COH Redistricting on YouTube. The Commission telephone number is (808) 961-8020, and email is redistrictingcommission@hawaiicounty.gov. That's all the announcements for staff, Chair. KOSSOW: I'll open up the announcements to any of the commissioners. (No response.) ADJOURNMENT KOSSOW: Motion to adjourn? HUSTACE: So moved. KOSSOW: Motioned by Mr. Hustace. YOSHINA: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. All in favor say aye. (Various commissioners say aye.) Any opposed, no? (No response.)Motion carries. Adjourned at 2:48 p.m. Thank you, everybody. Thank you for your patience. We'll see you all on the 21St at 9:30 a.m. Aloha! Respectfully Submitted, � Nicole Bello, support staff to the Commission 73