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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-12-13 Police Commission Regular Minutes HAWAI`I POLICE COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES DECEMBER 13, 2022 WEST HAWAFI CIVIC CENTER, BUILDING A COUNCIL CHAMBERS 74-5044 ANE KEOHOKALOLE HWY., KAILUA-KONA, HI CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL Vice Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 9:03 a.m. Present: Thomas Brown, Vice Chair Dylan Andrion, Commissioner Pudding Lassiter, Commissioner (arrived at 9:13 a.m.) Rod Quartararo, Commissioner Anthony Sur, Commissioner Denby Toci, Commissioner Via Zoom: Rick Robinson, Commissioner Absent: John Bertsch, Chair Donna Springer, Commissioner A quorum was present. Also present: Dakota Frenz, Deputy Corporation Counsel Charisse Correa, Secretary STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (Summarized) • Sheila Colon came before the commission in support of Sherry Bird. She explained how proud she was of all Ms. Bird's accomplishments. She stated through the years she rose in ranks and it didn't surprise her. She has all the qualities she would expect a high-ranking officer to have; honesty, integrity, ethics, and dependability. She shared that she has called Ms. Bird on numerous occasions with problems or concerns and she has always been able to advise and direct her to solutions. She stated that Ms. Bird will be an excellent chief, maybe one of the best. • Teresa Varley came before the commission in support of Sherry Bird. She stated that she has known Ms. Bird for over 30 years. Over that time, she watched her rise from a floor walker to where she is today. She recalled a time when Ms. Bird was a sergeant and told her that she was going to start on a college degree. She told her, you already have a job and asked why is she going to exhaust herself. Ms. Bird replied stating that there's always more to learn. Ms. Varley stated she was not here to speak on who she is today as a candidate for police chief, she's here to speak on who she's always been. Ms. Bird has always done her best to be fair regarding her job and she's also that person with her friends. Ms. Bird hasn't changed her character at all over the years, whether she's a friend, law enforcement, or an aunt. She stated that Ms. Bird works hard when nobody's looking, she doesn't even tell anybody she's working that hard. She stated that Ms. Bird wants what's best for the police department as well as the community. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 2 Hank Silva came before the commission. He stated that he's a retired police major for the Hawaii County Police Department. He served 25 years, then 18 years as a reserve, then as a federal police officer for a year after that. He stated that he has concerns for the police department. He has some questions about the methods used in the selection process and he wants to make sure that the commission covered these in the selection process. He said if not, you did not do your job properly and stated you may need to rethink and start over. He asked, did you continue to use old methods of the past for your pick or did you use modern and intricate methods to get the best results concerning the abilities of all the current applicants or did you use shortcuts? Were any professionals consulted during the selection process? He stated this is a police department with about a $70 million budget of our taxpayers' money. Large companies and other police departments do it, so why not you? Were the captains and lieutenants who have experience or previous chiefs consulted or questioned in gathering opinions about the perspective work ethics of all the applicants? Whom did they feel would be the best pick for the police department? Were other departments questioned about their applicants? Were prior administrative accomplishments submitted by the applicants used in the criteria for the selection? Did you look into their performance evaluations, letters of commendations, appointments as officers of the month/year, etc.? What were the biggest cases that they solved? He stated the kind of chief that the citizens of Hawaii County want is one who is personable, honest, of good character, fair-minded, has courage, someone who is looked up to, someone who is resourceful, smarter than most, has prior military service or knows martial arts, is more physically fit than most and can bench press at least 250 lbs. Joseph Passmore came before the commission, He stated he's a sergeant with the Hawaii Police Department. He congratulated all four candidates and stated he has no doubt that each candidate has merit and he has no ill will towards any of the candidates, but shared that he is there in support of Sherry Bird. He shared that he met her 16 years ago when he first became a police officer. She always treated people well. When he was promoted to sergeant three years ago, he was assigned to the South Kohala district, where she was the captain. She gave him clear, concise expectations and she followed up with those expectations, making sure he was on the right track. When she realized he was on the right track, she allowed him to run his watch. She didn't micromanage; however, she did check in and made sure that he was doing what he was supposed to be doing. She is someone who believes in progressive discipline. He's seen many commanders go straight to 302s for little things that shouldn't be punishable. She believes in following policies, starting with a verbal reprimand, going onto a sup doc, then going onto a 302 if needed. She believes in giving officers second chances. While he was working under her supervision, he had to write performance improvement plans for officers so they had a chance to improve. When you come to her with a problem, she will always ask you for a solution, not because she doesn't know the solution, but because she wants input. One of her sayings is "facts before acts", always making sure they have their facts before they act. He shared about an Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 3 incident where they had to evacuate Waikoloa Village due to a brush fire. Instead of barking orders from the office, they set up a mobile incident command center. He was the sergeant on duty. With her being there, she was able to give him guidance and talk to the EOC about what was really happening on the ground. He really appreciated her leadership that day. He stated the commission has a huge endeavor ahead of them, and he hopes they make the right choice. Sergeant Passmore stated to the applicants, this isn't a part-time job. Whoever gets this position, he hopes you're ready to lead and lead the department in the right direction • Mark Arnold, a police officer with the Hawaii Police Department came before the commission. He made a statement yesterday and came back today to reaffirm his support for Paul Applegate. He stated that he really feels he is the best candidate for the job. Yesterday there was a lot of discussion regarding retention, recruitment, and morale. He stated retention, recruitment and morale start with the commission because the decision that they make directly affects every single police officer in this county, as well as the community. He really hopes the commission selects the right candidate. He stated they had a problem in their department where administrators are not held to the same standard as the rank and file. He personally tried to bring complaints to Chairman Bertsch regarding certain administrators. He was told that the way the system is set up, it's basically broken and doesn't work. Officer Arnold posed a question to all four candidates, he asked, do you believe that the general orders apply to all administrators in the department? If an administrator violates a general order, are you prepared to investigate it? How would you investigate an administrator that has enough years to retire, but wants to stick around to be a thorn in your side? He thinks those are very important questions that need to be asked and needs to be addressed. • Jeremy Lewis came before the commission. He stated that he's been with the Hawaii Police Department for 22 years, he's currently the acting lieutenant in Kona Patrol, spent time in Vice, SEU, CIS, and is currently an active member and team leader of SRT. He read some of the candidates' resumes and heard them answer some of the tough questions yesterday. He stated that they all come from very decorated paths, but he supports Major Bird. He first met her in 2001, he was impressed with her work ethic, knowledge, and overall demeanor. She would show up every day for work, prepared to work. She made numerous arrests, and extensive investigations, and consistently issued citations. Everyone knew who Officer Bird was. He asked to shadow her because he wanted to learn from the best in Kona at that time. Without hesitation, she agreed and she was always willing to help him. Several years later he was promoted to the Area II Vice Section and she was a powerhouse in the office; writing warrants, making numerous arrests, and recovering drugs. He once again went to her and learned from her. He worked for her when she became Lieutenant in Vice. She always held everyone to the standard that she had for herself. She's fair, impartial, and always thinks with a cool head. She always had an open-door policy and he felt like he could go to her for anything. Things haven't changed as she climbed the ladder to her current position of major in Area II. Major Bird makes decisions sometimes that aren't popular, Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 4 but she knows it's the right thing for not only the community but for the police department. He knows she has what it takes to run the police department and he is willing to follow her into battle any day. • John Erickson provided testimony via Zoom and stated as far as the constitution and the Bill of Rights, in the past, there were issues with some unconstitutional acts coming down from the Governor's Office and Department of Health. He asks what's more important, the law of the land or the edicts coming from the Governor's Office. How can you best protect the people if you are not following the law of the land and standing up for our rights? He believes our rights are more important to protect than mandates. He feels we need a police chief that will stand up and use the knowledge that has been banned. There is a dark cloud coming over our country and the world and he doesn't want this police chief to jump on board and just follow the orders. He wants this to be an island of light that will protect our people, our citizens, even if they lose their job. He's looking for a man or woman who will stand up to the corruption, to the watering down of our rights and responsibilities as citizens. He also mentioned the overcrowding of the jails. He stated that he honors God with his life and he hopes the next chief honors his God, Yeshua, whomever it may be, the God of peace and love. He hopes the chief honors God more so than edicts from the Governor. • Justin Gaspar came before the commission. He stated that he's a police officer with the Hawaii Police Department and has been serving this community for the last 13 years. He stated that he's here to speak directly to the candidates about the concerns and requests of the rank and file. A lot of his colleagues told him that if he comes here today and speaks openly, he would be committing career suicide. He is willing to take that risk because this is something he believes in. He stated he and his colleagues would like to see fairness across the board. Anybody who has worked for this department knows that it's completely two separate worlds between the east side and the west side. It's several different worlds when you go to each district. Each watch is run a different way, people are doing things differently, there are no standardized operations. Another thing that the rank and file would like the candidates and the police commission to know is the monkey in the room, retention. Why are we not retaining our officers? He served as a weaponless defense instructor for the department and it's disheartening. They put in the time, and work, they train well-qualified applicants and they leave. Officer Gaspar stated that he has looked at pursuing other career opportunities across the nation, not necessarily for the money or the glitz and glamour of it, because he loves this job. He stated we are losing qualified applicants because of the mismanagement that has been happening for decades at the top. He further stated there's no recall training given to them. The second thing is the schedule. He has been an officer for 13 years and for 13 years he has heard every reason as to why they can't get a schedule change. When there are big incidents such as the volcanic eruption in 2018, the TMT protests, Ironman, and the new volcanic eruption, the schedule changes at will. They're taught that everything is about family, but the schedule shows otherwise. It's constantly manipulated and never to the benefit of the officers. The next Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 5 thing is the training, being a weaponless defense instructor, he's constantly asked by officers who are under the gun because they may have used the wrong or unreasonable amount of force per the department. It's not their fault that they're not being trained to current trends. A lot of the techniques that they were trained in have been done away with by this department and now they're being held liable for the techniques that they used, but they were never given the opportunity to get re-trained. He stated that they would like to see is a transparent promotion process. They want transparency and they want change. • Charles Kable provided testimony via Zoom on behalf of Edward Ignacio's candidacy. He's the director of the terrorist screening center and has been an FBI agent for 22 years. He made it clear that he was speaking in his personal capacity and not on behalf of the FBI. He has known Mr. Ignacio for over 22 years. He explained his ability to lead, stating during his first assignment out of the FBI academy fellow agents bought into his leadership while operating undercover. His peers at the engineering resource facility in Quantico Virginia bought into his leadership during his two-plus years leading law enforcement communication strategies impacting federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies across the country. While promoted to be the joint terrorism task force supervisor in the Honolulu field office, he had the buy-in from the special agent in charge on down because of his ability to effectively engage with other federal agencies. He's stated he's a local guy that understands the issues in the community, as do the other candidates, but what separates him from the rest of the pool was his willingness to leave Hawaii, get different perspectives and experiences, and incorporate them into his leadership contributions back home in Hawaii. He spoke about Mr. Ignacio's commitment to Hawaii's law enforcement memorial effort over the last ten years. He explained that Mr. Ignacio is a board member and fundraiser for the foundation. He developed numerous strong working relationships, and earned their buy-in to raise funds to design, erect, and sustain a memorial for fallen officers. He further stated that it didn't exist before 2016, that was done during his off time, imagine what he can do for your community as your next chief of police. • Chad Taniyama came before the commission. He stated that he's been a police officer for 25 years. He thought long and hard about coming today. Depending on what you say here, it could affect his career, but if he didn't come forward and tell the truth, he would regret it later knowing that he let down his brothers and sisters in blue. He explained that he's at 25 years, he's at the end of his career, and if he feels there's retaliation, he can punch out, but a younger officer can't, he would have to endure that. He stated that the Hawaii Police Department has been stuck in the mud for years. They're held together by band-aids because the upper management has failed. They failed to look at the future. You talk about training and retention, it's non-existent. The people who have the influence and the power to make change have not. In 2018, they paid the ultimate price and there was no change. The candidates here all seem like nice people, but let's take an honest look. There's an individual who spent a year with their police department then he transferred and went to a slower and smaller police Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 6 department. We have another candidate whose own officers and union spoke against him in his last run for chief. Then we have Major Bird, he listened to her testimony yesterday and read her resume. She has spent a lot of time in Vice, in numerous roles. She has overseen Area II. She speaks about cooperation with other agencies, but she has great difficulty dealing with other agencies. He suggested and urged that the commission looks into it. She speaks of training, but there are only five ranking officers above her, she has the influence to make a change, but she has not. Why wait to become chief to make a change? If you really care about the department and want to make a change, it has to be now. You have the power to make that decision. He stated there's only one candidate there that will give them a fresh start. Chair Brown announced that they will soon go into executive session. When they return to open session, they will bring up the four candidates and advised everyone that they're free to sit in while the commission questions them. EXECUTIVE SESSION Commissioner Andrion motioned to meet in executive session for the purpose to ratify interview questions for the candidates and to consult with the board's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5 (a)(4). Commissioner Lassiter seconded, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously. Executive session convened at 10:00 a.m. Motion to reconvene open session made by Commissioner Lassiter, seconded by Commissioner Sur, with no discussion and it carried unanimously. Regular session reconvened at 10:37 a.m. Recess was called at 10:37 a.m. the meeting reconvened at 10:45 a.m. UNFINISHED BUSINESS • Selection process for the next Police Chief for the County of Hawaii: All four finalists came before the commission. Vice Chair Brown announced that the commission will do it a little differently from yesterday. He stated he will open up the questioning to his fellow commissioners as well. Some questions will be asked to individual candidates specifically and some will be asked similarly to yesterday's format, where the question will apply to every candidate. • Commissioner Toci had a question for Sherry Bird. She stated we received a Marriot Hotel receipt for your work at the Ironman and the cost was $1,953.00. Have you filed a gift disclosure with the Board of Ethics? ➢ Sherry Bird stated as far as that is concerned, she did not file a gift disclosure. She was operating as a commander of running the police side of those operations, that is not considered a gift. She was running a major event that occurred on this side of the island, it occurred over a working period of..., you Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 7 know there was two race dates, but it encompassed all that time in between meetings, being readily available to respond on-site should a command decision need to be made. Pre-assessment of security threats for this event. We expected crowds, this includes spectators, athletes, and their families, etc. upwards of 20,000 people if not more. You can just imagine the planning that goes into it. We have athletes from across the world and you can imagine the threats that they have to be made aware of, we have to be consistently scanning for and being readily available to deploy our resources should something major have had happened and a command decision needed to be made on the spot. Commissioner Toci asked would that not be a comp room and a violation of General Order 300? Sherry Bird stated that she was operating in her official capacity. That was not a gift, it wasn't a gratuity, and it wasn't something that benefited any decision- making that she made in the process of acting as the Major of the Hawaii Police Department. Commissioner Toci asked because you reside in Kona, would that not have been ideal to go home, or drive home after the event or your allotted time there? Sherry Bird stated the race has times that it starts and ends but that doesn't mean that her work ends as a commander. What many don't know is that after hours, after the event is completed, after or even before the event has started there's still a lot of pre-planning, a lot of post-planning, and planning for the next event that has gone on. She needed to be able to be there to make those decisions, those plans, distribute those plans out, and all of that. Commissioner Toci asked the other candidates if they have ever violated any general order and if so, what happened and what was it. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated if he ever violated a policy or general order in the department, it was most likely inadvertently. He explained one particular time when he worked several days back to back and failed to call in sick for court, he missed court and he thinks he received written counseling as a result. He has been subject to several administrative investigations throughout his career, he thinks they probably all have. None of those investigations resulted in any findings of any type of sustained allegations. Commissioner Toci asked if any of those violations affect the community or other members of the community or other officers. Mr. Moszkowicz stated no, not to his knowledge. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 8 ➢ Edward Ignacio stated no, not to his knowledge. He has never violated or been administratively looked at during his time with Hawaii PD, Honolulu PD, or the FBI. ➢ Paul Applegate stated that he was not the subject of any investigations and he hasn't violated any policies that he's aware of during his career. • Commissioner Andrion asked the next question specifically to Benjamin Moszkowicz. He stated, in your previous run for the police chief of the Honolulu Police Department, there were officers of the department that testified against you. This raises concerns for this commission. What is your response to that? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that to his knowledge most of the testimony that was provided to the commission in written form was released and is on their website. It's voluminous, there were about 97 or 98 people who submitted written testimony on his behalf. He doesn't recall anyone submitting written testimony against him taking the position. There was one person who came in and provided verbal testimony in person and he wasn't in support of his position. This meeting is available online, it's on YouTube and he can provide the links and copies of the written testimonies. His testimony was focused against him because his perception was that he lacked patrol experience and that he only achieved the rank of major and was not an assistant chief. • Vice Chair Brown had a question specifically for Paul Applegate. He stated currently, you have a lawsuit against the Kauai Police Department and the Kauai Police Commission, are there any other legal matters that you have, and would they affect your performance as chief of police if you were selected for the position in Hawaii County? ➢ Paul Applegate stated no, there are no other legal matters that are pending that he's aware of. He can't go into specifics, but he can say that this lawsuit, in which he's the petitioner of will in no way inhibit his ability to do his job as chief of police. He further stated that he's a person that will not stand by idly if someone is discriminated against. Whether it be himself or someone else and he will take action, as evidenced by what the commission is referring to. • Commissioner Sur stated this came up from the public. Are all of you vaccinated? He advised that you do not need to answer if you don't want to. The other question in relation to this is what are your thoughts on enforcing the rules and requirements ordered by the governor, in terms of how you handle your employees who refuse the vaccine? Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 9 ➢ Sherry Bird stated she will keep her vaccination status to herself. As far as the enforcement of the vaccination policy, they didn't have a "get vaccinated or be terminated" policy for the department. You had choices. If you chose not to be vaccinated then you would need to submit to the weekly testing. That was the rules at the time, so departmentally that's what they followed. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that he doesn't feel comfortable discussing this in a public forum. If you want to talk about it in executive session, that's fine. He stated that he would like to point out that he oversaw human resources at the Honolulu Police Department when the city came out with a vaccine mandate. Their policy was, you get vaccinated by a certain day or else...we will terminate your employment. He is proud to say that it was a lot of work to manage all of that human resources information, but of the 2,501 employees, volunteers, and contractors they only lost two who weren't able to get into some sort of compliance. There were a lot of discussions and a lot of hard deadlines imposed on them by the city, but they were able to convince the city to allow religious or medical exemptions. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he was working for the federal government. They had no choice and had to get vaccinated for their employment, which came from a presidential directive. He stated that he is vaccinated. He believes in people's right to choose if they want to be vaccinated or not. He further stated that he would support any legislation that comes up and that hopefully if this comes up again, he would support legislation that gives the people the right to choose. ➢ Paul Applegate stated that he is vaccinated and as police chief, he would enforce any lawful order. He would not allow his personal feelings at any time to interfere with any professional decisions that would have to be made. Commissioner Andrion had a follow-up question for Mr. Applegate. He stated there were several testimonies that they heard from members of the public who felt their constitutional rights were violated by different mandates, including vaccine and mask mandates. He asked if he would enforce mandates if they were directed to his department. Paul Applegate stated yes, those that have been vetted through Corporation Counsel or legal counsel and have been interpreted as being lawful. Vice Chair Brown added that the commission isn't just interested in their vaccination status. They're representing the public because the public in numerous testimonies, spoke about following the Constitution and Bill of Rights. He thinks 99% of them were referring to vaccination. They're following Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 10 up on that because it seems to be a big concern with the public who took the time to come out and speak about this at the meetings. • Vice Chair Brown had a question specifically for Edward Ignacio. He said reading your interrogatory answers, you have a very impressive career with the FBI. However, their concern is that you don't have management experience over a large number of people, which would occur if you were selected as police chief, which consists of 500 employees (if all positions are filled). How would you alleviate some concerns that we may have about your lack of management experience with a large number of people? ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he has experience with managing over 300 personnel in his background when he was the acting special agent in charge for the national security branch in the Honolulu office. However, it was a short period of time. He explained his management style, he stated you surround yourself with people that you feel are like-minded and will fill those gaps that you might not have. You can't teach leadership, you have to learn it. His way to deal with this would to surround himself with those that have that administrative knowledge until he can get up to speed. He's a quick learner and has the ability to adapt. • Vice Chair Brown had a question for all candidates. He stated this body heard some disturbing comments, not just from the speakers today, but through emails and letters that they've received regarding retaliation and people's fears about coming before this board expressing their views on a preferred candidate or against a candidate. What would you do to alleviate those concerns of retaliation? ➢ Paul Applegate stated that his philosophy has always been to be fair, consistent, and always follow policy. When he heard this, he was upset. No one should be afraid of retaliation for voicing their views. What he would do as chief is communicate to everyone in unequivocal terms that retaliation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with in accordance with their policies. Everyone is to be treated fairly, and everyone's views are to be respected and encouraged. You cannot move forward as a department if you don't have people who are willing to say what their grievances are, what they believe can be changed, and their perception of what's happening. This is the only way that they can move forward, which is to come together with different views and hammer out how to make things better. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he agrees with everything that Mr. Applegate has said. He stated he is the type who likes to learn and adapt. He would go to the extent of talking to these individuals directly and hearing their concerns. If they felt compelled to come here and speak to the commission, even in fear of retaliation, that's a person you would want to know because they seem like Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 11 they're representing the masses or the rest of the workforce. They felt compelled to come out and talk, that's good, he likes that, he likes to engage. He doesn't like to talk to people, he likes to talk with people. That is a way you'll learn about your department. For a new guy coming in, it's important to actually talk to these guys immediately, engage with them, and show that you are open. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated It takes a lot of courage, especially at potential risks to your career depending on who gets the job or having the fear that retaliation is a real possibility. To him, it's completely unacceptable. When they went on a break, he went specifically to the two gentlemen who gave testimony and thanked them. He thanked them for their courage in bringing forward these important issues that are clearly something that needs to be addressed in the department. There's absolutely no room for retaliation. The best way to heal the problems is to bring those issues out into the open and deal with them directly. If you have a fear of retaliation then that's never going to happen and things will continue to be stuck in the mud, as stated earlier. It's not something that would be condoned or accepted under his administration. ➢ Sherry Bird stated she would not promote an atmosphere of retaliating against anybody. She's a fair person of high integrity and as a leader, you have to take the negative comments with the positive comments. She accepts the comments that may not be so nice, but she wants to use that as a learning tool for how can she do better in her position. Some good points were brought up and valid points. You can tell the passion and it does take courage to go up there and speak what they were speaking to. She stated that she truly appreciates hearing that and them being the voice for others that may not want to be up there or can't. She doesn't promote or participate in a culture of retaliating against anyone just because they may have a difference of opinion. She welcomes suggestions. They can't do the same things they've been doing the same way. They need to be different, so how do we be different and capitalize on doing things differently? • Commissioner Lassiter had a question for all candidates. She asked, how would you put West and East Hawaii as one? It appears now that we have sections. As a chief, would you combine and have one big community of 500 officers? When she listened to some of the testifiers, it was like there were two sides to the island. She asked how would you do that? ➢ Sherry Bird stated that it does sometimes seem that way because our island is so big. For organizational purposes, we are divided almost as if we're two police departments, but operating under one umbrella. When she started recruit class, she was taught there's the Hilo way then there's the Kona way. Over time she saw a difference in the way they do things. Generally Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 12 speaking, there has to be a difference in doing things, not taking away from policy and procedure, but dealing with different audiences, and different crowds of people. There may be differences in the way we carry out certain things however, we are one department and as the chief, she would put that out to the department in her expectations and visions that we are one department. Seek suggestions from command staff, such as how can we show unity, instead of being seen as "Area I vs. Area II" or "east vs. west." Spreading that out in the message, ask commanders how can they improve in that area, looking for their suggestions, taking those, and putting a plan into action. Talking to the officers, meeting with them, and expressing our vision, and our expectations, so that we can all be on the same page and operate for the most part in the same professional manner. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated as the chief, it's going to be impossible to change a culture from the top. Whoever gets the job, if they try to impose something down it's not going to happen. They're going to keep running into roadblocks. The key for him is to find out what common ground lies between the two parties. Find the common ground and use that to build. He guarantees that the officers in Hilo and Kona took the job for the same reason. They are all type A individuals and they like to complete which can cause division sometimes. He thinks focusing on unity and common values is important. He also thinks it's important to identify which best practices work in one area or the other and based on that starting point of finding those common values to then impose the standardization where possible. On Oahu, there are different patrol districts and some things just don't work as well in Waikiki as it they do in Waianae. That's to be expected, policing is a little different in those two districts. Whoever gets this job is going to have to involve the men and women who are on the beat doing the job and get them to buy into this idea that we're one department and after that, the dominoes start to fall. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he has a different perspective. He worked as a federal partner on this island. He saw that happening every single day. As a federal partner, he tried to do things with the department. It wasn't the individuals that he was working with, it was the procedures that seems inconsistent between Area I and Area II. As someone who wanted to help the community and use his outreach and breadth of experience, it was kind of frustrating. As stated earlier during one of the testimonies, regarding other federal partners, they all had that problem, and it was very hard. You want to do what's right, but sometimes it works better in Kona and sometimes it works better in Hilo and there's no consistency. Seeing that, he wants consistency, he wants it to be unified and they have to do that through leadership and getting on the same page. As chief, he plans on spending at least one day working out of Kona. He understands Hilo is the base, and he Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 13 gets that, but sometimes just having a presence shows that you're engaged and you have to have engagement if you want everyone to buy into what you're going to say. ➢ Paul Applegate stated the Big Island is 4,000 square miles, that's a huge geographic area to have one central point to manage. He understands why there's Area I and Area II, that work for their respective areas independently. However, as chief, he would ask all the members for their input and encourage input. The people that do the job and are there in the trenches every day have the answers, it's just that nobody asked them what they think. As chief, he would ask everyone; civilian staff, sworn officers, command staff, retirees, and the public what they think. He's not opposed to some form of reorganization, he doesn't know because he doesn't know enough yet. Like Mr. Ignacio stated earlier, he would spend part of his week on the west side. A repeated thing you'll always hear from him is always treat everyone with fairness, treat them consistently, and follow policy. He would make sure that both sides have equal access to resources because it's one department. It would be a collaborative effort to come up with solutions. As chief, it would be his decision, but he would want that input from all stakeholders to make that decision. • Commissioner Quartararo stated one of the ironies that he sees, especially with Mr. Ignacio and his life history.... He asked Mr. Ignacio what years he was a police officer. Mr. Ignacio stated from 93-96 he was with the Honolulu PD, he transferred to Hawaii County PD in 96-2000, then he went into the FBI. He retired from the FBI on November 30, 2021. Commissioner Quartararo stated had you applied to be a police officer here again, having served all that time with the FBI, you would be required to start over in the academy. With all your experience with the FBI for 20 years has got to sit on a shelf for a couple of years until you work your way back as a police officer. He further stated if you're a police officer on the mainland, you're given no credit if you want to become a police officer in Hawaii, you've got to start over. Where are you as far as that sort of thing goes? Commissioner Quartararo stated that he's been on the commission for almost three years and at every meeting they're going over the personnel, showing 70-80 officers short. He thinks a part of the problem is we can't afford ourselves transfers from the mainland because do you want to take a cut in pay and start over at the bottom when you've got 10-20 years of experience? He further stated that he keeps hearing about the Northwest, it's almost like a drain, and the officers are being pulled from there because they don't have the same prohibitions. He asked Edward Ignacio, where are you as far as that goes? ➢ Edward Ignacio stated he thinks he understands the question and clarified he's talking about bringing in talent that has a lot of experience, and currently you would subject them to go into the academy again. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 14 Mr. Ignacio stated he feels that's an area that he believes they're losing recruitment on. You mentioned the Pacific Northwest, since he was a police officer, they've recruited guys from Honolulu PD because there's a strong Hawaii-based community there. It's also a lateral, they learn the GOs for a couple of weeks, go with an FTO, and they're on the street. He stated that he would be in favor of that, we should recruit from the mainland. There's a lot of experience out there, we should be looking for guys to come in and fill those gaps that have experience. He would like to look at the current training program as it pertains to those individuals that we're recruiting from the mainland. He would be open to having a shortened academy where they go over their GOs and procedures. He would take it one step further. If we have guys from the mainland, he would want them to go through a Hawaiian culture class, so they can understand the differences of being in Hawaii. Even if you look at our state, if you're a local from the Big Island, it's a little different from being a resident of Honolulu. We're very unique here. If we want the officers to be successful here, they're going to need to understand that. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated in researching the department and trying to think through possibilities and applying for this position, he did learn that Hawaii County does have a seven to eight-week lateral transfer program. He knows of people who used to be beat partners with him in Honolulu who transferred over to the Big Island. As far as credit and years served, those things do transfer over because it's a SHOPO position to a SHOPO position. It's an ERS position to an ERS position. If we're talking about within the state, there is some flexibility in policy. Such a program does exist. It's seven to eight weeks of classroom, requalifications based on department standards with use-of- force options, and learning about the revised ordinance in the Big Island as opposed to where you came from. The Hawaii Revised Statutes are the same, so we can boil that down, and following that seven to eight-week period is a period with an FTO. When he was in Human resources in Honolulu, they were about to start their very first class of mainland lateral transfers. They developed a curriculum, worked through HR issues, negotiated with SHOPO, and determined a pay step that the lateral transfers would enter at. Just as they were about to notify those candidates, they had gone through an informal director's interview, interviewed all of them and then the administration in the department put the brakes on it. It's absolutely something that we should take a look at. There needs to be an aspect to the lateral type of program that introduces people to the culture to make sure that they're going to be able to police in our neighborhoods, in our community the way that our community members expect. ➢ Sherry Bird stated that she is a supporter. They already accept transfers from within the State. The difficulty is getting those mainland transfers. She doesn't Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 15 think they're at the state that Honolulu was at, as far as accepting mainland transfers, but that's something she would definitely look into. As much as they're capitalizing on their trained officers, she would also like to receive and look into methods on how we can do that. It would help with their recruitment as well and hopefully help fast-track some officers so that we can get them out onto the road where they're needed. ➢ Paul Applegate stated that at the department he's currently at, they don't do lateral transfers, but they do accept applicants with an abbreviated training program because of their extensive experience. You have some people with years and years of law enforcement experience, and very good backgrounds, so they have an abbreviated course for them to get the Hawaii Laws and practices in place. He would want to look into doing that here as chief. First and foremost, as he said earlier, he would want to recruit local talent. Part of that is having a regularly scheduled recruit class on the west side. We could use technology such as Zoom at times. As far as lateral in State transfers, he's in support of that. He thinks people freely move between islands for various islands, as he did. The laws are all the same, except for departmental policies and procedures and local ordinances. Vice Chair Brown stated he thinks what Commissioner Quartararo was getting at was that several years ago this gentleman who was either the chief or sheriff in Washington DC arrested or got the DC sniper. He tried to move to Honolulu and started in patrol. Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that he can share a little bit because he met him when he came to Honolulu. He applied just like everybody else, went through a background, went through a full academy, and worked as a patrol officer basically an entry-level position from the day he started. • Commissioner Lassiter asked how would you feel about what your salary would be in this position. Is it an acceptable one? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated it's a concern, but it's not a concern for him as an individual. As an applicant for the job, he understood from the job announcement what his salary would be and he is totally ok with that. His concern is, how do you choose a deputy chief and convince that person to follow you and to do all this work? It's a lot more responsibility, it's a lot more work, it's a lot more public. The salary commission hasn't met since 2017 or 2018 and hasn't adjusted pointed salaries. How do you convince that person to do that job for a significant cut in pay? He thinks the salary commission here needs to take a hard look at the fact that assistant chiefs are going to be making more than the deputy chief. By the end of 2024, by the end of the contract period in 2024, an assistant chief here will make approximately 34% more than the deputy chief here. To him, that's a huge issue, it makes it a Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 16 huge impediment to finding the right person. He knows the salary commission is who sets the salaries and it's not really a negotiation thing, it's just a matter of getting the right information and the rights facts in front of the salary commission, so they can adjust salaries. If they haven't done it in four or five years, SHOPO has received several across-the-board pay increases. This is something he thinks should be looked at. ➢ Sherry Bird stated she knew the salary when she signed up for the position. She is perfectly fine with what it is. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated he knew what the salary was when he applied for it. He agrees with Mr. Moszkowicz's points but wanted to add, what's the motivation for your soon-to-be leaders to become leaders when your captain is making more than your chief or major? That creates an area of stagnation because you'll get to a point, say you're an assistant chief or major, they're making more than the chief, so why take on the added responsibility? What makes the chief position more appealing? The candidates sitting before you are looking at serving their community and the department, that's why they're sitting here right now. You also could've had some people along the way that probably would've been great chiefs as well, but they chose not to because it would be a cut in pay. He thinks this is something that needs to be looked at. ➢ Paul Applegate stated if he gets selected as chief he would take a cut in pay also. The reason he put in for this position was to serve and do the best that he can to make a difference. He thinks at some point in the future, something like a percentage, a certain percentage higher than the highest assistant chief would be something that would address the issue. • Commissioner Andrion stated briefly describe your position on HRS 134-3, better known as Hawaii's newly enacted conceal and carry laws. What challenges police officer training and administrative processes need to be accessed in implementing and enforcing? ➢ Paul Applegate stated this is one of those legislations that are enacted and we have to abide by because it's a constitutional right. It came upon the state relatively quickly. At his current department, they moved rapidly to adjust and address the concerns. He stated this is one of those areas of training that cannot be ignored and would have to be dealt with immediately. The officers aren't used to walking around and knowing someone is carrying a concealed firearm on a daily basis, it's not a common occurrence. To have that kind of specific training is very important so there's no misunderstanding and no accidents that happen. It would be a definite priority to get this out. Another component of that would be communicating this to the public, so they understand what their responsibilities are and what's happening. There are a Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 17 lot of questions and all of those questions have to be vetted through their counsel. At the same time, preserving everyone's rights. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated after the Supreme Court ruled that the second amendment right, to conceal carry is something that we should abide by... there are a lot of misconceptions going on out there and a lot of inconsistencies. One of the things that we'll hopefully get to is that they codify a procedure statewide so that each county is not having to deal with it in different ways or confusing the public. Confusion leads to bad perception, which leads to people being unhappy. He hopes that we will have a codified procedure statewide and then it would be ratified by the chiefs at the very end. A big piece of that is training. They need to train everyone, not just train citizens on where they can and can't carry their weapons and how they're going to interact with police. We also need to train our police officers on how they will interact. It's very uncomfortable in Hawaii, all of a sudden you're coming across someone that may be carrying a weapon. How do you interact? To include the public, how will they interact with the officers? Everyone needs to be on the same page, receive the same training, and the same message, and be consistent about it. We're not the last State to allow concealed carry, there are other states out there that have been doing it for decades, let's look at their processes and maybe learn from their mistakes. Again, establish learning from best practices and maybe see if we can implement that here. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated in the news last night was a story about Honolulu issuing its first ten permits. They haven't gotten any kind of in- person or other training. Reading the SHOPO forum on Facebook, Hawaii County officers haven't received any kind of PowerDMS training either. That's a huge opportunity that's being missed. When we all went through various academies in Hawaii, we were taught if someone has a gun, that's a crime, so our training, tactical response, and reactions are all built into that assumption and we can't necessarily make that assumption anymore. To un- train that is going to require some tactical and hands-on training. At the same time, he thinks it's important that the chief promotes the message that this is a right. It's not something that we have to deal with "unfortunately" any different than any other right. Once affirmed by the Supreme Court as a right, it's our responsibility as police officers and as the chief of police for Hawaii County to protect that right and to make sure that right is administered equally and fairly. It's also a communication piece to the public. What the public may or may not realize is there are probably already 400-500 people, law-abiding citizens who are walking around right now on the Big Island who have a concealed firearm. Every police officer off duty likely has one, all the officers who are retired; local, federal, those who have LEOSA permits are also law-abiding citizens who are carrying firearms. It's not a new Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 18 thing, it's just that we're trained to expect that. We're not trained to expect someone whom we don't recognize as law enforcement. ➢ Sherry Bird stated as far as their county, they have issued concealed carry weapon permits. She stated her police department has received training. Can they do more? Of course, they can do more. She would promote practical, hands-on scenario type of training. They have disseminated training via their PowerDMS system to the officers. Also engaging with the community and making them aware that this is what's in place, this is why it's in place and if they have concerns they're more than welcome to call. They have a system in place in their computer system, if they're encountering someone, investigating someone, they can look up their name and there will be a notification attached to that permit holder's name, so the officer has that in the back of their minds. Not saying permit holders are criminals or anything, but for officer safety reasons, that flag comes up. Part of the training also provides the officers with responses. If you encounter someone with a permit and they're engaged in criminal activity, here's what you need to do. They do have training in place, but they could do more and they need to balance that with protecting individual rights • Commissioner Lassiter asked if one of you were to be selected as police chief, would you select another candidate to be your deputy? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated they kind of touched on that a little bit. He stated if he were selected he would choose a deputy from within the department. He thinks that when selecting a deputy chief from within the ranks of the Hawaii County Police Department, it's important to find someone who shares your values and whom you can trust to act on your behalf and someone who can help lead the administration. That being said, he thinks the question might put the cart before the horse a little bit. It involves conversations that need to be had that haven't been had. They're on a table with very well-qualified people and who else better to pick all things being equal than someone who is equally as well as qualified as you to take the job? ➢ Sherry Bird stated there's a table full of qualified people here. She doesn't want to put that cart before the horse. Should she get the position and have to make that decision, she will definitely consider qualified personnel for that spot. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated not to echo everyone's sentiments, but he agrees with them. There are qualified people there and as he said before, he will pick someone from within the department and there's only one person in the department there. You need to find someone who is like-minded as you and Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 19 shares the same vision and goals. Those conversations haven't really taken place with individuals at this table or anywhere else. He's going to have to wait to say that, but he's always open. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he would definitely select someone from within the department. There are many qualified individuals. He hasn't had any conversations with anyone, but he knows reputations and if selected he would make that decision at that time. Commissioner Toci stated yesterday SHOPO mentioned Hawaii County has a lot of grievances, the most in the state. Whether it's from community members or from officers from within. This may be because of attitude and unethical practices. Someone requested this question be asked. She asked the candidates do you believe that the department has lost good officers due to the woke culture. When officers raise their voices of concerns that are going on in the department, the department turns a blind eye or a deaf ear. If yes, explain how you would address this. For example, an officer in an administrative position who holds conversations with officers that are inappropriate, and sexual in nature that degrades women. How would you address that? But first of all, do you believe we lost good officers because complaints have been turned on deaf ears? ➢ Sherry Bird stated she is not aware of losing officers because complaints haven't been heard. She is personally not aware of that, she's not saying it hasn't happened. As far as personnel engaging in sexual discrimination or sexual harassment or behaviors like that is absolutely not tolerated. If an allegation comes forward of that nature, an investigation will take place. If through investigation, it's proven that the allegations were true then appropriate discipline will be carried out. It doesn't matter what rank you are, it shouldn't matter. That kind of behavior is absolutely not tolerated. We don't condone it, we don't promote it, and we don't encourage it. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated regardless of your rank, it's not accepted or tolerated, but if proven, the rank certainly is going to add to whatever discipline might be administered. People who hold supervisory positions are held to a higher standard. Specifically, to the question asking if the police department has lost good people due to folks raising concerns over a blind eye or deaf ear being turned, while he can't point you to a specific name, there are a couple of places he would point you to the answer of that question. He's hoping that when you leave the Hawaii County Police Department a thorough exit interview is conducted. That's something that they started in Honolulu. Some people opt not to participate, but the folks that do provide a lot of good feedback into opportunities to save a potential resignation or to make improvements in the department. He's hoping there's some sort of exit interview data somewhere. If not that's certainly a practice Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 20 that would be implemented. Regarding a superior officer engaging in inappropriate behavior, it's one of those problems that just compounds upon itself. Is it possible to even conduct an impartial investigation if the culture is such that a superior officer would engage in that behavior in the first place? Or might the investigator fear retaliation? In that aspect, he would suggest, especially for a superior officer, that the investigation be conducted by someone outside of the police department. Human Resources in Honolulu has an equal opportunity officer and her staff assists with similar investigations in Honolulu. If it's a subordinate officer then they have detectives that can do those investigations. Certainly, we want to make sure that a fair and impartial investigation occurs not only so that appropriate action can be taken at the divisional level, as far as reeducation or training, termination, or suspension, but also the city and county are aware of the investigation and can take appropriate action as well. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that the department has been losing good talent. There's a sweet spot in your career, between your 5t" and 15t" year where at that time you decided if you're going to be a good patrol officer or sergeant and stay that course or are you going to elevate yourself and be a leader in the department? He's been retired for a year and it's been great, he's been sitting at the coffee shop and people know who he is, they know he was an FBI guy and he was a police officer. They feel comfortable coming up to him and talking stories. He heard a lot of concerns from the community. This is absent of them even knowing that he was eventually going to put in for police chief. He knows a lot of the officers, he's known them for years and he worked with them. He heard their grievances and that's one of the reasons why they're leaving. They feel like they're not being heard. He watched progressively as young talent spoke to him, expressed that they were thinking of leaving, and slowly progressively watched them transfer away. It's sad to see, it's a sad loss. He stated this issue needs to be addressed, it's something that can be addressed through leadership and training and making the guys feel like they can be heard. He doesn't know if the message is lost on the way up the chain or how or why it's not getting to the proper level, but we need to figure that out. We can't keep losing these talents. We need to recognize this and deal with it and try to address it, use it, and make their lives better. Again, it's a quality-of-life thing and a work environment thing. Regarding inappropriate behavior, that's unacceptable, no matter what level you are and it will be dealt with swiftly. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he doesn't have any personal first-hand knowledge of officers leaving this department prematurely for the reasons spoke about. However, when you have officers leaving the department prematurely when it's not for personal reasons or anything of those, they feel like they're not relevant or being treated fairly or the morale is low. It's a leadership issue Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 21 because the police chief is in charge of the department and sets the tone and standard and the bar of what is acceptable behavior. The chief sets that accountability to everyone, including himself. If he's selected as chief, he expects to be held to the highest standard above anyone in the department. he would hold his commanders to a high standard, the same standard that he holds officers to. There's no disparity in treatment. There's one standard for all. It starts at the top and it's a leadership issue. Sexual harassment or harassment of any kind will not be tolerated and would be dealt with in accordance with applicable procedures and laws. All procedures will be followed and those who commit those actions would have their due process, innocent until proven guilty. That will not be tolerated, it would be communicated as such, zero tolerance. • Commissioner Toci stated here on the Big Island we have a history of officers killing their wives. In the organization that she is in, they assist families with filing temporary restraining orders. She asked, under your leadership, how would you address officers' needs for self-care and mental health respite without retaliation or "red flagging" them, allowing them the necessary tools they need for their wellness for their self-care? How would you address that under your leadership and support wellness for them? ➢ Sherry Bird stated under her leadership officer wellness has to be one of their higher priorities. They're out there, they're seeing things that normally people wouldn't see in their lifetime, tragic things. As she spoke about yesterday, policing has evolved. Before you just had tough skin and deal with whatever you had to deal with and move on to the next. It's much different nowadays and we recognize that. These events and incidents play a big part on their mental wellness, things that we had in place already departmentally is our peer support system. If we know that a brother or sister officer is experiencing a difficult time, we can call upon our peer support team to reach out and give that informal counseling, a check on the officer. We also have the chaplain program. Chaplains are available, they can call on them and they're able to reach out and communicate as well. There's also the Employee Assistance Program where employees can remain confidential and call in to seek counseling, the department doesn't need to know about it. As chief, she would want to take it to another level and explore wellness apps. They spoke about innovation, creativity, and using technology. There are many wellness apps available. Everyone has a phone, so why can't we explore that and get those programs available for all of our department personnel so they can have a resource readily available to them and no one needs to know about it. Also, as chief, promoting not just counseling for wellness, but also taking care of ourselves such as diet and exercise. She would like to explore more about making sure our officers remain physically fit as well. Maybe creating an incentive program, starting off with a voluntary Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 22 physical fitness test or something to that effect to stimulate some ideas for physical readiness. Mental wellness for our officers and all department personnel is very important and it's something she would definitely look into. Commissioner Sur asked if there is a requirement for you guys to keep in good shape. Sherry Bird stated they do not have an established physical fitness test that they have to take every year. They have to go to the county physician and make sure that they meet physical conditions in that respect. As far as a physical fitness test they have to take outside of getting hired by the police department going through recruit class, no. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated under his administration he would create a wellness unit, which could be staffed by civilians, on a contract basis. It's important that we establish a wellness unit whose focus solely is on health and wellness; mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally of department employees and their family members. He has seen signs of depression and anxiety in department members and family members of department employees for the last 20 years. The department has gotten a lot better at identifying and providing supervisors with training. This isn't a one-size-fits- all, magic bullet fix, it doesn't exist. There's such a wide path and a variety of situations and conditions. In addition to expanding peer support and finding more volunteer chaplains and using technology, he thinks developing a wellness unit that is specifically responsible for that helps it not slide off someone's priority list. He further shared that the Honolulu Police Department has a marriage and family counselor who works for the department. That thought process of finding other resources that are out there, bringing them in, and having them be department funded. Commissioner Toci asked if officers have they been dinged for seeking therapy or counseling. Benjamin Moszkowicz stated no, but there are certain lines, and if they are crossed where an employee tells the therapist that they are imminently going to hurt themselves or someone else then there are red flags of professional care standards that have to happen. For people who seek counseling from the counselor who don't cross that line, there's no record. She encourages you to use a fake name when you go to her. It's built to keep the employer out of the business of the employees, but at the same providing employees with a resource that they need for help, direction, and treatment. One of the things that he learned from attending the FBI academy recently is that there is a whole variety of physical fitness standards and requirements that are out there. He thinks the time has come for this and all departments in the state to establish some sort of standard. It's going to require Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 23 collaboration, a long-term plan, communication, and a ramp-up period to get people whose physical fitness has fallen from when they first started in the department. Ultimately, as the chief, representative of the department, he's concerned about people's health, and their physical and mental fitness. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated physical and mental wellness in the workforce is a big thing. It's not just a perception of how an officer looks in uniform. He comes from the FBI family, they have a PT test every year and that PT test is based on standards regarding your age. A 21-year-old just coming into the department isn't held to the same expectations as a 53-year-old that's coming toward the twilight of his career. They also take into consideration injuries that you've sustained throughout your career and other factors. The FBI took a long time to implement this. It started off as a voluntary thing, there was trial and error. While it was in the voluntary stage, it was kind of like a big push to the workforce about taking care of yourself. They both touched on the different programs and ways you can check on mental wellness and he agrees wholeheartedly with that. It's something that affects a lot of things. Not only for their personal life and domestic violence, but how they interact with the public. If they're not in the right state of mind and are put in a situation where they have to make a split-second decision, their mental well-being, and their physical well-being play a part in that decision- making process. ➢ Paul Applegate stated domestic violence is a tragedy, especially when it ends up in fatalities. As chief, he will wholeheartedly support the combat of domestic violence. At his current position, they encourage officers in his unit, in his bureau to do what they call wellness checks with the EAR It's not mandatory, but it's highly encouraged. They sell it to the officers, to the supervisors, who sell it to their personnel. This goes with the department goals that he would want to have; employee wellness, safety, and resiliency. Enhance organizational efficiency and increase positive community engagement. Every year, each unit, all actions go towards accomplishing these three goals. He would like to encourage all members of the department, which includes the dispatchers. As far as physical fitness, he would want to work collectively with SHOPO and HGEA to help improve the quality of life of employees. It's not only to be productive and healthy employees now, it's so that they can enjoy their lives after retirement and have longevity. A 30/30 plan would be proposed. We give you 30 minutes of our time and you give me 30 minutes of your time and you can work out at designated facilities such as gyms, a track, or whatever we collectively come up with. We'll donate 30 minutes of our company time, but they have to sign in and agree that they're going to give 30 minutes of their time, so it's one hour, out of three days a week or whatever it is, these are just ideas. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 24 • Commissioner Toci said it was previously stated that the Big Island doesn't have annual recall training. What is annual recall training and why do I feel like we need it and how would you implement it and would you implement it ASAP? ➢ Sherry Bird stated regarding annual recall training, we do not have an in- person annual recall training which would include whatever we want to include in it, basically, but the important training; use of force, and arrest control techniques, we don't have that. As police chief, that's something she would be a supporter of and implement that program. It's necessary, often times they review use of force incidents and in those incidents, the officers are saying that they haven't had training since recruit class. That is a very valid concern and it's a concern for her and it's something she would take proactive action on to implement this annual recall training. There are a lot of logistics that need to be worked out, as far as instructors, our island, and managing the overtime that would come with it, but that would be a priority to put in place under her leadership. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated annual recall training is absolutely a necessity and is a must. You could use technology to do some of it. Some training can be accomplished very easily with a slideshow and voiceover presentation followed by a quiz to make sure you paid attention. Tactical training, physical assessments, and use of force training cannot be done that way. We could teach subject matter that way, but not the physical skills. He stated in his mind this is a very short term and has to happen as quickly as possible, by February or March. We're going to have to figure out lesson plans and logistics, but it has to start immediately. You can't wait to get the whole department's schedule to start something, you need to start very quickly and knock down that low-hanging fruit, and get some stuff accomplished. Even if it's twice a year for one day, instead of once a year for two days. There are a lot of different flavors and varieties of how we can pull folks in and relocate training from one area to another. All you need is a classroom or dojo to teach use of force scenario. If the training staff is mobile then we can get it accomplished even quicker. To him, this is a six to eight-week implementation after taking office. Commissioner Toci asked if Honolulu PD does annual recall training. Mr. Moszkowicz stated yes, both in-person and online. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated recall training is very important. He remembers doing it when he was in the Honolulu Police Department, it's a great thing. It allows your officers to not only refresh their training but adjust to current situations that would come up because things change. For example, concealed carry, that gives you that opportunity to put that out there and train the guys immediately without having to schedule extra things. It brings consistency. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 25 everyone in the department will have the same training and have the same understanding of what they're supposed to do. That also helps the supervisors to be better leaders and to better support those decisions. If they don't understand or as Ms. Bird had mentioned, some of them say " the last time I was trained it was this..." or "back when I was trained then..." well now everyone would be on the same page. It also brings good comradery, you're training with your watch, with your sergeant, everyone is training together and it builds teams. ➢ Paul Applegate stated annual recall training is very important because police officers have high liability activity that they do every day and we need to be current in doing it the right way with the current Supreme Court rulings or whatever it may be. If not, you bring high liability to the department. The officer's and citizens' safety could be in jeopardy if officers aren't up to speed with the current trainings. The barriers to this are scheduling and overtime, both of which could be overcome. As chief, he would immediately work on this issue with commanders and make sure that every person that needs to be trained gets the training that they need. Commissioner Toci asked if Kauai PD does annual recall training. Mr. Applegate stated yes, and it is expensive. Vice Chair Brown stated there were a couple of troubling things they heard today and in the past when they started the process of hiring the police chief. It was that the general orders only apply to the rank and file and not to admin. He also heard that training for existing officers is pretty much non-existent and he has to make sure that he points out that it's not the recruit training because he has heard nothing but excellent comments about the recruit training that goes on. He hopes whoever is selected as chief will at least try to take some steps to try to improve the training for current officers. • Commissioner Andrion had a question specifically for Benjamin Moszkowicz. He stated there have been several public testimonies brought before this commission on behalf of Major Bird, Mr. Ignacio, and Captain Applegate, in contrast, they have not received any on your behalf. Because this is a process that involves, relies and serves on behalf of the public do you see this as problematic? What is your message to the public and to this commission considering this, especially if you are selected as the next chief of police? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that's an excellent question and certainly is something that needs to be addressed. He's not from here, he was not born on the Big Island, and he has not worked for the Hawaii County Police Department. He has developed himself professionally and academically to the point where he feels he can contribute to the department and he thinks Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 26 he will do an amazing job as the chief. He can also point them to the volumes of public support that he received when he applied for the Honolulu chief job six months ago. He intentionally didn't go out and drum up support. Having learned from the previous process, while he feels like public testimony and support are important, he also understands that this is not a popularity contest. Ultimately the decision of who you select will boil down to the eight of you who are participating in the process. He would hope that they would look at the total sum picture of their application, interrogatories, etc. He has an executive-level skillset where he can come in, form collaborations, identify partners, find solutions that work, and as the CIO basically of this company, of the Hawaii County Police Department, those are the skills that he brings to the table. • Commissioner Andrion had a question for Sherry Bird. He stated he'd like to revisit the concerns of the commission and members of the public in regard to the perceived conflict of interest relating to the hotel accommodations you received for your official duties at the Ironman event. In Hawaii County Code, Code of Ethics, Section 2-91.4., no officer or employee shall solicit, accept, or receive, directly or indirectly, any gift, whether in the form of money, service, loan, travel, entertainment, hospitality, thing, or promise or in any other form, under circumstances in which it can reasonably be inferred that the gift is intended to influence the officer or employee in the performance of the officer's or employee's official duties or is intended as a reward for any official action on the officer's or employee's part. Question is, do you still stand by your statement that you did not violate the department's General Order regarding gifts, and secondly with this perception and the public now realize, would you make any changes in the way HPD works in connection with the annual Ironman event? ➢ Sherry Bird stated that she would revisit it, but she will stand by her position that she did not utilize the hotel room or perceive it to be a gift or a reward for her actions acting in her official capacity working this event to ensure the public safety. It was by no means in any way influencing any decision that she made, other than making sure the event ran smoothly and everybody was protected. She's proud to say that no one got hurt, that was her ultimate message to the personnel. As far as the hotel room, it was there to use the restroom, to maybe get a couple of hours of sleep, but definitely, it wasn't given as a reward for her position, it didn't influence her in any way. She stated again, it was just part of her official capacity, running the police operations for the Ironman event. • Commissioner Andrion stated earlier we heard testimony regarding lack of training and low retention of officers, due to upper management failing to keep up with current trends, and current training. Frustration was shared that even in your current position of influence there have allegedly not been any changes or improvements in Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 27 training made through your leadership. Why would that be perceived? It would seem that there are officers that are desperate for change and would prefer a police chief from outside of the "same old same old." What confidence can you give this commission and grieved officers that things will change once you are chief and/or would you support the idea that the department would perhaps be better served and strengthened with a combination of someone with an outside perspective as chief and someone like yourself as deputy to create a robust wholesome administration? ➢ Sherry Bird stated as she made clear, training is important. She doesn't want the commission to think that our department doesn't go through training. They go through a lot of training. Training specific to a position, for instance, if you're assigned to the Traffic Enforcement Unit, there's a lot of training you have to go through for that specialized position. Each specialized section goes through training and on top of that we have reoccurring training, such as training for their tasers. She spoke about the annual recall training earlier, it's not in person, but they have annual training online, via PowerDMS, among other methods. They have a lot of training, as well as roll call training, training during briefings, and things like that. Can we do better? She said yes and that is what she will commit to. Sherry Bird stated as far as the decision-making process, the commission has a big decision whether you want somebody internally or externally. She completely respects this process and appreciates having to go through this. She is an internal candidate and as you go through different positions in your career, unfortunately sometimes you have to make decisions that's not going to get the popular vote, but that's why we're in these positions. She will support whoever their chief is and if asked to serve as a deputy, she will engage in that conversation. She's always open to ideas and suggestions. Going back to training as an example. When she was a commander in the South Kohala district, she saw a need for the "Stop the Bleed" training before departmentally being moved to tourniquet training. She got in touch with a trainer with a medical hospital, who volunteered to come and train the South Kohala district. Also, in the South Kohala district, firearms training, they have the ability to use the range out there, she's a strong proponent of training. Firearms training, they have that ability, they have instructors out there and she is still a supporter and lets the commander know let's make sure to continue to have these once a month. The firearms instructor goes out there, he makes the range day available and does excellent training. She made it available to all of Area II. The range days are sent out and is available to everybody, manpower permitting. In the area that she's responsible for, they have instructors trained in various aspects. As the major, it's not necessarily her responsibility to be the one to go and train personnel. They have personnel that is instructors, she encourages the commanders to use who Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 28 they have. She stated why can't we train with what we have available to us right here and right now. Commissioner Sur had a question for Benjamin Moszkowicz. He stated that he has a background of having been in school for many years, so he can relate to his master's and PhD. Because of what he knows and what he had to do to get where he's at. He asked how do you expect to do a PhD program and be a police chief at the same time. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated he applied and has been accepted into Gonzaga's leadership PhD program. He's been taking courses. He's taking a leadership course now and is scheduled for one in the spring. He's scheduled to start the program in the summer. It's a question of priorities, if he is selected for this position then it's something he's going to reexamine. He's waited this long in life to go back to school in the first place. He's certainly willing to delay earning a PhD until after he retires from the police department. He's a person who likes to have about a hundred different balls in the air. He works better when he's doing a bunch of things, but at the same time, being able to know and prioritize...this job would be a huge time commitment and that's a priority that would slide ahead of him continuing his academic progress, at least temporarily. Vice Chair Brown thanked all candidates and dismissed them for the day. EXECUTIVE SESSION Commissioner Andrion motioned to meet in executive session to consult with the board's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5 (a)(4). Commissioner Lassiter seconded, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously. Executive session convened at 12:33 p.m. Motion to reconvene open session made by Commissioner Toci, seconded by Commissioner Lassiter, with no discussion and it carried unanimously. Regular session reconvened at 1:56 p.m. ANNOUNCEMENTS Vice Chair Brown announced the next meeting is scheduled for Friday, December 16, 2022, at 9:00 a.m., at the County Building, Council Chambers, Suite 1401, 25 Aupuni St., Hilo, Hawaii. The agenda is posted and he hopes to see everyone there. ADJOURNMENT Motion to adjourn was made by Commissioner Quartararo, seconded by Commissioner Sur, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously, the meeting adjourned at 1:57 p.m. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 13, 2022 Page 29 SUBMITTED BY: CHARISSE CORREA, SECRETARY APPROVED BY: THOMAS BROWN, CHAIR