HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-12-13 Police Commission Regular Minutes HAWAI`I POLICE COMMISSION
SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
DECEMBER 13, 2022
WEST HAWAFI CIVIC CENTER, BUILDING A COUNCIL CHAMBERS
74-5044 ANE KEOHOKALOLE HWY., KAILUA-KONA, HI
CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Vice Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 9:03 a.m.
Present: Thomas Brown, Vice Chair
Dylan Andrion, Commissioner
Pudding Lassiter, Commissioner (arrived at 9:13 a.m.)
Rod Quartararo, Commissioner
Anthony Sur, Commissioner
Denby Toci, Commissioner
Via Zoom: Rick Robinson, Commissioner
Absent: John Bertsch, Chair
Donna Springer, Commissioner
A quorum was present.
Also present: Dakota Frenz, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Charisse Correa, Secretary
STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (Summarized)
• Sheila Colon came before the commission in support of Sherry Bird. She explained
how proud she was of all Ms. Bird's accomplishments. She stated through the years
she rose in ranks and it didn't surprise her. She has all the qualities she would expect a
high-ranking officer to have; honesty, integrity, ethics, and dependability. She shared
that she has called Ms. Bird on numerous occasions with problems or concerns and
she has always been able to advise and direct her to solutions. She stated that Ms.
Bird will be an excellent chief, maybe one of the best.
• Teresa Varley came before the commission in support of Sherry Bird. She stated that
she has known Ms. Bird for over 30 years. Over that time, she watched her rise from a
floor walker to where she is today. She recalled a time when Ms. Bird was a sergeant
and told her that she was going to start on a college degree. She told her, you already
have a job and asked why is she going to exhaust herself. Ms. Bird replied stating that
there's always more to learn. Ms. Varley stated she was not here to speak on who she
is today as a candidate for police chief, she's here to speak on who she's always been.
Ms. Bird has always done her best to be fair regarding her job and she's also that
person with her friends. Ms. Bird hasn't changed her character at all over the years,
whether she's a friend, law enforcement, or an aunt. She stated that Ms. Bird works
hard when nobody's looking, she doesn't even tell anybody she's working that hard.
She stated that Ms. Bird wants what's best for the police department as well as the
community.
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Hank Silva came before the commission. He stated that he's a retired police major for
the Hawaii County Police Department. He served 25 years, then 18 years as a reserve,
then as a federal police officer for a year after that. He stated that he has concerns for
the police department. He has some questions about the methods used in the selection
process and he wants to make sure that the commission covered these in the selection
process. He said if not, you did not do your job properly and stated you may need to
rethink and start over. He asked, did you continue to use old methods of the past for
your pick or did you use modern and intricate methods to get the best results
concerning the abilities of all the current applicants or did you use shortcuts? Were any
professionals consulted during the selection process? He stated this is a police
department with about a $70 million budget of our taxpayers' money. Large companies
and other police departments do it, so why not you? Were the captains and lieutenants
who have experience or previous chiefs consulted or questioned in gathering opinions
about the perspective work ethics of all the applicants? Whom did they feel would be
the best pick for the police department? Were other departments questioned about
their applicants? Were prior administrative accomplishments submitted by the
applicants used in the criteria for the selection? Did you look into their performance
evaluations, letters of commendations, appointments as officers of the month/year,
etc.? What were the biggest cases that they solved? He stated the kind of chief that
the citizens of Hawaii County want is one who is personable, honest, of good character,
fair-minded, has courage, someone who is looked up to, someone who is resourceful,
smarter than most, has prior military service or knows martial arts, is more physically fit
than most and can bench press at least 250 lbs.
Joseph Passmore came before the commission, He stated he's a sergeant with the
Hawaii Police Department. He congratulated all four candidates and stated he has no
doubt that each candidate has merit and he has no ill will towards any of the
candidates, but shared that he is there in support of Sherry Bird. He shared that he met
her 16 years ago when he first became a police officer. She always treated people well.
When he was promoted to sergeant three years ago, he was assigned to the South
Kohala district, where she was the captain. She gave him clear, concise expectations
and she followed up with those expectations, making sure he was on the right track.
When she realized he was on the right track, she allowed him to run his watch. She
didn't micromanage; however, she did check in and made sure that he was doing what
he was supposed to be doing. She is someone who believes in progressive discipline.
He's seen many commanders go straight to 302s for little things that shouldn't be
punishable. She believes in following policies, starting with a verbal reprimand, going
onto a sup doc, then going onto a 302 if needed. She believes in giving officers second
chances. While he was working under her supervision, he had to write performance
improvement plans for officers so they had a chance to improve. When you come to
her with a problem, she will always ask you for a solution, not because she doesn't
know the solution, but because she wants input. One of her sayings is "facts before
acts", always making sure they have their facts before they act. He shared about an
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incident where they had to evacuate Waikoloa Village due to a brush fire. Instead of
barking orders from the office, they set up a mobile incident command center. He was
the sergeant on duty. With her being there, she was able to give him guidance and talk
to the EOC about what was really happening on the ground. He really appreciated her
leadership that day. He stated the commission has a huge endeavor ahead of them,
and he hopes they make the right choice. Sergeant Passmore stated to the applicants,
this isn't a part-time job. Whoever gets this position, he hopes you're ready to lead and
lead the department in the right direction
• Mark Arnold, a police officer with the Hawaii Police Department came before the
commission. He made a statement yesterday and came back today to reaffirm his
support for Paul Applegate. He stated that he really feels he is the best candidate for
the job. Yesterday there was a lot of discussion regarding retention, recruitment, and
morale. He stated retention, recruitment and morale start with the commission because
the decision that they make directly affects every single police officer in this county, as
well as the community. He really hopes the commission selects the right candidate. He
stated they had a problem in their department where administrators are not held to the
same standard as the rank and file. He personally tried to bring complaints to Chairman
Bertsch regarding certain administrators. He was told that the way the system is set up,
it's basically broken and doesn't work. Officer Arnold posed a question to all four
candidates, he asked, do you believe that the general orders apply to all administrators
in the department? If an administrator violates a general order, are you prepared to
investigate it? How would you investigate an administrator that has enough years to
retire, but wants to stick around to be a thorn in your side? He thinks those are very
important questions that need to be asked and needs to be addressed.
• Jeremy Lewis came before the commission. He stated that he's been with the Hawaii
Police Department for 22 years, he's currently the acting lieutenant in Kona Patrol,
spent time in Vice, SEU, CIS, and is currently an active member and team leader of
SRT. He read some of the candidates' resumes and heard them answer some of the
tough questions yesterday. He stated that they all come from very decorated paths, but
he supports Major Bird. He first met her in 2001, he was impressed with her work ethic,
knowledge, and overall demeanor. She would show up every day for work, prepared to
work. She made numerous arrests, and extensive investigations, and consistently
issued citations. Everyone knew who Officer Bird was. He asked to shadow her
because he wanted to learn from the best in Kona at that time. Without hesitation, she
agreed and she was always willing to help him. Several years later he was promoted to
the Area II Vice Section and she was a powerhouse in the office; writing warrants,
making numerous arrests, and recovering drugs. He once again went to her and
learned from her. He worked for her when she became Lieutenant in Vice. She always
held everyone to the standard that she had for herself. She's fair, impartial, and always
thinks with a cool head. She always had an open-door policy and he felt like he could
go to her for anything. Things haven't changed as she climbed the ladder to her current
position of major in Area II. Major Bird makes decisions sometimes that aren't popular,
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but she knows it's the right thing for not only the community but for the police
department. He knows she has what it takes to run the police department and he is
willing to follow her into battle any day.
• John Erickson provided testimony via Zoom and stated as far as the constitution and
the Bill of Rights, in the past, there were issues with some unconstitutional acts coming
down from the Governor's Office and Department of Health. He asks what's more
important, the law of the land or the edicts coming from the Governor's Office. How can
you best protect the people if you are not following the law of the land and standing up
for our rights? He believes our rights are more important to protect than mandates. He
feels we need a police chief that will stand up and use the knowledge that has been
banned. There is a dark cloud coming over our country and the world and he doesn't
want this police chief to jump on board and just follow the orders. He wants this to be
an island of light that will protect our people, our citizens, even if they lose their job.
He's looking for a man or woman who will stand up to the corruption, to the watering
down of our rights and responsibilities as citizens. He also mentioned the overcrowding
of the jails. He stated that he honors God with his life and he hopes the next chief
honors his God, Yeshua, whomever it may be, the God of peace and love. He hopes
the chief honors God more so than edicts from the Governor.
• Justin Gaspar came before the commission. He stated that he's a police officer with the
Hawaii Police Department and has been serving this community for the last 13 years.
He stated that he's here to speak directly to the candidates about the concerns and
requests of the rank and file. A lot of his colleagues told him that if he comes here
today and speaks openly, he would be committing career suicide. He is willing to take
that risk because this is something he believes in. He stated he and his colleagues
would like to see fairness across the board. Anybody who has worked for this
department knows that it's completely two separate worlds between the east side and
the west side. It's several different worlds when you go to each district. Each watch is
run a different way, people are doing things differently, there are no standardized
operations. Another thing that the rank and file would like the candidates and the police
commission to know is the monkey in the room, retention. Why are we not retaining our
officers? He served as a weaponless defense instructor for the department and it's
disheartening. They put in the time, and work, they train well-qualified applicants and
they leave. Officer Gaspar stated that he has looked at pursuing other career
opportunities across the nation, not necessarily for the money or the glitz and glamour
of it, because he loves this job. He stated we are losing qualified applicants because of
the mismanagement that has been happening for decades at the top. He further stated
there's no recall training given to them. The second thing is the schedule. He has been
an officer for 13 years and for 13 years he has heard every reason as to why they can't
get a schedule change. When there are big incidents such as the volcanic eruption in
2018, the TMT protests, Ironman, and the new volcanic eruption, the schedule changes
at will. They're taught that everything is about family, but the schedule shows
otherwise. It's constantly manipulated and never to the benefit of the officers. The next
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thing is the training, being a weaponless defense instructor, he's constantly asked by
officers who are under the gun because they may have used the wrong or
unreasonable amount of force per the department. It's not their fault that they're not
being trained to current trends. A lot of the techniques that they were trained in have
been done away with by this department and now they're being held liable for the
techniques that they used, but they were never given the opportunity to get re-trained.
He stated that they would like to see is a transparent promotion process. They want
transparency and they want change.
• Charles Kable provided testimony via Zoom on behalf of Edward Ignacio's candidacy.
He's the director of the terrorist screening center and has been an FBI agent for 22
years. He made it clear that he was speaking in his personal capacity and not on behalf
of the FBI. He has known Mr. Ignacio for over 22 years. He explained his ability to lead,
stating during his first assignment out of the FBI academy fellow agents bought into his
leadership while operating undercover. His peers at the engineering resource facility in
Quantico Virginia bought into his leadership during his two-plus years leading law
enforcement communication strategies impacting federal, state, and local law
enforcement agencies across the country. While promoted to be the joint terrorism task
force supervisor in the Honolulu field office, he had the buy-in from the special agent in
charge on down because of his ability to effectively engage with other federal agencies.
He's stated he's a local guy that understands the issues in the community, as do the
other candidates, but what separates him from the rest of the pool was his willingness
to leave Hawaii, get different perspectives and experiences, and incorporate them into
his leadership contributions back home in Hawaii. He spoke about Mr. Ignacio's
commitment to Hawaii's law enforcement memorial effort over the last ten years. He
explained that Mr. Ignacio is a board member and fundraiser for the foundation. He
developed numerous strong working relationships, and earned their buy-in to raise
funds to design, erect, and sustain a memorial for fallen officers. He further stated that
it didn't exist before 2016, that was done during his off time, imagine what he can do for
your community as your next chief of police.
• Chad Taniyama came before the commission. He stated that he's been a police officer
for 25 years. He thought long and hard about coming today. Depending on what you
say here, it could affect his career, but if he didn't come forward and tell the truth, he
would regret it later knowing that he let down his brothers and sisters in blue. He
explained that he's at 25 years, he's at the end of his career, and if he feels there's
retaliation, he can punch out, but a younger officer can't, he would have to endure that.
He stated that the Hawaii Police Department has been stuck in the mud for years.
They're held together by band-aids because the upper management has failed. They
failed to look at the future. You talk about training and retention, it's non-existent. The
people who have the influence and the power to make change have not. In 2018, they
paid the ultimate price and there was no change. The candidates here all seem like
nice people, but let's take an honest look. There's an individual who spent a year with
their police department then he transferred and went to a slower and smaller police
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department. We have another candidate whose own officers and union spoke against
him in his last run for chief. Then we have Major Bird, he listened to her testimony
yesterday and read her resume. She has spent a lot of time in Vice, in numerous roles.
She has overseen Area II. She speaks about cooperation with other agencies, but she
has great difficulty dealing with other agencies. He suggested and urged that the
commission looks into it. She speaks of training, but there are only five ranking officers
above her, she has the influence to make a change, but she has not. Why wait to
become chief to make a change? If you really care about the department and want to
make a change, it has to be now. You have the power to make that decision. He stated
there's only one candidate there that will give them a fresh start.
Chair Brown announced that they will soon go into executive session. When they return to
open session, they will bring up the four candidates and advised everyone that they're free
to sit in while the commission questions them.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Commissioner Andrion motioned to meet in executive session for the purpose to ratify
interview questions for the candidates and to consult with the board's attorney on
questions and issues pertaining to the commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities,
and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5 (a)(4). Commissioner Lassiter seconded, with no
discussion, and it carried unanimously. Executive session convened at 10:00 a.m.
Motion to reconvene open session made by Commissioner Lassiter, seconded by
Commissioner Sur, with no discussion and it carried unanimously. Regular session
reconvened at 10:37 a.m.
Recess was called at 10:37 a.m. the meeting reconvened at 10:45 a.m.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
• Selection process for the next Police Chief for the County of Hawaii: All four finalists
came before the commission. Vice Chair Brown announced that the commission will do
it a little differently from yesterday. He stated he will open up the questioning to his
fellow commissioners as well. Some questions will be asked to individual candidates
specifically and some will be asked similarly to yesterday's format, where the question
will apply to every candidate.
• Commissioner Toci had a question for Sherry Bird. She stated we received a Marriot
Hotel receipt for your work at the Ironman and the cost was $1,953.00. Have you filed a
gift disclosure with the Board of Ethics?
➢ Sherry Bird stated as far as that is concerned, she did not file a gift disclosure.
She was operating as a commander of running the police side of those
operations, that is not considered a gift. She was running a major event that
occurred on this side of the island, it occurred over a working period of..., you
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know there was two race dates, but it encompassed all that time in between
meetings, being readily available to respond on-site should a command
decision need to be made. Pre-assessment of security threats for this event.
We expected crowds, this includes spectators, athletes, and their families, etc.
upwards of 20,000 people if not more. You can just imagine the planning that
goes into it. We have athletes from across the world and you can imagine the
threats that they have to be made aware of, we have to be consistently
scanning for and being readily available to deploy our resources should
something major have had happened and a command decision needed to be
made on the spot.
Commissioner Toci asked would that not be a comp room and a violation of
General Order 300?
Sherry Bird stated that she was operating in her official capacity. That was not
a gift, it wasn't a gratuity, and it wasn't something that benefited any decision-
making that she made in the process of acting as the Major of the Hawaii
Police Department.
Commissioner Toci asked because you reside in Kona, would that not have
been ideal to go home, or drive home after the event or your allotted time
there?
Sherry Bird stated the race has times that it starts and ends but that doesn't
mean that her work ends as a commander. What many don't know is that after
hours, after the event is completed, after or even before the event has started
there's still a lot of pre-planning, a lot of post-planning, and planning for the
next event that has gone on. She needed to be able to be there to make those
decisions, those plans, distribute those plans out, and all of that.
Commissioner Toci asked the other candidates if they have ever violated any general
order and if so, what happened and what was it.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated if he ever violated a policy or general order in the
department, it was most likely inadvertently. He explained one particular time
when he worked several days back to back and failed to call in sick for court,
he missed court and he thinks he received written counseling as a result. He
has been subject to several administrative investigations throughout his
career, he thinks they probably all have. None of those investigations resulted
in any findings of any type of sustained allegations.
Commissioner Toci asked if any of those violations affect the community or
other members of the community or other officers. Mr. Moszkowicz stated no,
not to his knowledge.
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➢ Edward Ignacio stated no, not to his knowledge. He has never violated or
been administratively looked at during his time with Hawaii PD, Honolulu PD,
or the FBI.
➢ Paul Applegate stated that he was not the subject of any investigations and he
hasn't violated any policies that he's aware of during his career.
• Commissioner Andrion asked the next question specifically to Benjamin Moszkowicz.
He stated, in your previous run for the police chief of the Honolulu Police Department,
there were officers of the department that testified against you. This raises concerns for
this commission. What is your response to that?
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that to his knowledge most of the testimony that
was provided to the commission in written form was released and is on their
website. It's voluminous, there were about 97 or 98 people who submitted
written testimony on his behalf. He doesn't recall anyone submitting written
testimony against him taking the position. There was one person who came in
and provided verbal testimony in person and he wasn't in support of his
position. This meeting is available online, it's on YouTube and he can provide
the links and copies of the written testimonies. His testimony was focused
against him because his perception was that he lacked patrol experience and
that he only achieved the rank of major and was not an assistant chief.
• Vice Chair Brown had a question specifically for Paul Applegate. He stated
currently, you have a lawsuit against the Kauai Police Department and the Kauai
Police Commission, are there any other legal matters that you have, and would they
affect your performance as chief of police if you were selected for the position in
Hawaii County?
➢ Paul Applegate stated no, there are no other legal matters that are pending
that he's aware of. He can't go into specifics, but he can say that this lawsuit,
in which he's the petitioner of will in no way inhibit his ability to do his job as
chief of police. He further stated that he's a person that will not stand by idly if
someone is discriminated against. Whether it be himself or someone else and
he will take action, as evidenced by what the commission is referring to.
• Commissioner Sur stated this came up from the public. Are all of you vaccinated?
He advised that you do not need to answer if you don't want to. The other question
in relation to this is what are your thoughts on enforcing the rules and requirements
ordered by the governor, in terms of how you handle your employees who refuse
the vaccine?
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➢ Sherry Bird stated she will keep her vaccination status to herself. As far as the
enforcement of the vaccination policy, they didn't have a "get vaccinated or be
terminated" policy for the department. You had choices. If you chose not to be
vaccinated then you would need to submit to the weekly testing. That was the
rules at the time, so departmentally that's what they followed.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that he doesn't feel comfortable discussing this
in a public forum. If you want to talk about it in executive session, that's fine.
He stated that he would like to point out that he oversaw human resources at
the Honolulu Police Department when the city came out with a vaccine
mandate. Their policy was, you get vaccinated by a certain day or else...we
will terminate your employment. He is proud to say that it was a lot of work to
manage all of that human resources information, but of the 2,501 employees,
volunteers, and contractors they only lost two who weren't able to get into
some sort of compliance. There were a lot of discussions and a lot of hard
deadlines imposed on them by the city, but they were able to convince the city
to allow religious or medical exemptions.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he was working for the federal government. They
had no choice and had to get vaccinated for their employment, which came
from a presidential directive. He stated that he is vaccinated. He believes in
people's right to choose if they want to be vaccinated or not. He further stated
that he would support any legislation that comes up and that hopefully if this
comes up again, he would support legislation that gives the people the right to
choose.
➢ Paul Applegate stated that he is vaccinated and as police chief, he would
enforce any lawful order. He would not allow his personal feelings at any time
to interfere with any professional decisions that would have to be made.
Commissioner Andrion had a follow-up question for Mr. Applegate. He stated
there were several testimonies that they heard from members of the public
who felt their constitutional rights were violated by different mandates,
including vaccine and mask mandates. He asked if he would enforce
mandates if they were directed to his department.
Paul Applegate stated yes, those that have been vetted through Corporation
Counsel or legal counsel and have been interpreted as being lawful.
Vice Chair Brown added that the commission isn't just interested in their
vaccination status. They're representing the public because the public in
numerous testimonies, spoke about following the Constitution and Bill of
Rights. He thinks 99% of them were referring to vaccination. They're following
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up on that because it seems to be a big concern with the public who took the
time to come out and speak about this at the meetings.
• Vice Chair Brown had a question specifically for Edward Ignacio. He said reading
your interrogatory answers, you have a very impressive career with the FBI.
However, their concern is that you don't have management experience over a large
number of people, which would occur if you were selected as police chief, which
consists of 500 employees (if all positions are filled). How would you alleviate some
concerns that we may have about your lack of management experience with a large
number of people?
➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he has experience with managing over 300
personnel in his background when he was the acting special agent in charge
for the national security branch in the Honolulu office. However, it was a short
period of time. He explained his management style, he stated you surround
yourself with people that you feel are like-minded and will fill those gaps that
you might not have. You can't teach leadership, you have to learn it. His way
to deal with this would to surround himself with those that have that
administrative knowledge until he can get up to speed. He's a quick learner
and has the ability to adapt.
• Vice Chair Brown had a question for all candidates. He stated this body heard some
disturbing comments, not just from the speakers today, but through emails and
letters that they've received regarding retaliation and people's fears about coming
before this board expressing their views on a preferred candidate or against a
candidate. What would you do to alleviate those concerns of retaliation?
➢ Paul Applegate stated that his philosophy has always been to be fair,
consistent, and always follow policy. When he heard this, he was upset. No
one should be afraid of retaliation for voicing their views. What he would do as
chief is communicate to everyone in unequivocal terms that retaliation will not
be tolerated and will be dealt with in accordance with their policies. Everyone
is to be treated fairly, and everyone's views are to be respected and
encouraged. You cannot move forward as a department if you don't have
people who are willing to say what their grievances are, what they believe can
be changed, and their perception of what's happening. This is the only way
that they can move forward, which is to come together with different views and
hammer out how to make things better.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he agrees with everything that Mr. Applegate has
said. He stated he is the type who likes to learn and adapt. He would go to the
extent of talking to these individuals directly and hearing their concerns. If they
felt compelled to come here and speak to the commission, even in fear of
retaliation, that's a person you would want to know because they seem like
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they're representing the masses or the rest of the workforce. They felt
compelled to come out and talk, that's good, he likes that, he likes to engage.
He doesn't like to talk to people, he likes to talk with people. That is a way
you'll learn about your department. For a new guy coming in, it's important to
actually talk to these guys immediately, engage with them, and show that you
are open.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated It takes a lot of courage, especially at potential
risks to your career depending on who gets the job or having the fear that
retaliation is a real possibility. To him, it's completely unacceptable. When they
went on a break, he went specifically to the two gentlemen who gave
testimony and thanked them. He thanked them for their courage in bringing
forward these important issues that are clearly something that needs to be
addressed in the department. There's absolutely no room for retaliation. The
best way to heal the problems is to bring those issues out into the open and
deal with them directly. If you have a fear of retaliation then that's never going
to happen and things will continue to be stuck in the mud, as stated earlier. It's
not something that would be condoned or accepted under his administration.
➢ Sherry Bird stated she would not promote an atmosphere of retaliating against
anybody. She's a fair person of high integrity and as a leader, you have to take
the negative comments with the positive comments. She accepts the
comments that may not be so nice, but she wants to use that as a learning tool
for how can she do better in her position. Some good points were brought up
and valid points. You can tell the passion and it does take courage to go up
there and speak what they were speaking to. She stated that she truly
appreciates hearing that and them being the voice for others that may not
want to be up there or can't. She doesn't promote or participate in a culture of
retaliating against anyone just because they may have a difference of opinion.
She welcomes suggestions. They can't do the same things they've been doing
the same way. They need to be different, so how do we be different and
capitalize on doing things differently?
• Commissioner Lassiter had a question for all candidates. She asked, how would
you put West and East Hawaii as one? It appears now that we have sections. As a
chief, would you combine and have one big community of 500 officers? When she
listened to some of the testifiers, it was like there were two sides to the island. She
asked how would you do that?
➢ Sherry Bird stated that it does sometimes seem that way because our island
is so big. For organizational purposes, we are divided almost as if we're two
police departments, but operating under one umbrella. When she started
recruit class, she was taught there's the Hilo way then there's the Kona way.
Over time she saw a difference in the way they do things. Generally
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speaking, there has to be a difference in doing things, not taking away from
policy and procedure, but dealing with different audiences, and different
crowds of people. There may be differences in the way we carry out certain
things however, we are one department and as the chief, she would put that
out to the department in her expectations and visions that we are one
department. Seek suggestions from command staff, such as how can we
show unity, instead of being seen as "Area I vs. Area II" or "east vs. west."
Spreading that out in the message, ask commanders how can they improve
in that area, looking for their suggestions, taking those, and putting a plan
into action. Talking to the officers, meeting with them, and expressing our
vision, and our expectations, so that we can all be on the same page and
operate for the most part in the same professional manner.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated as the chief, it's going to be impossible to
change a culture from the top. Whoever gets the job, if they try to impose
something down it's not going to happen. They're going to keep running into
roadblocks. The key for him is to find out what common ground lies between
the two parties. Find the common ground and use that to build. He
guarantees that the officers in Hilo and Kona took the job for the same
reason. They are all type A individuals and they like to complete which can
cause division sometimes. He thinks focusing on unity and common values is
important. He also thinks it's important to identify which best practices work
in one area or the other and based on that starting point of finding those
common values to then impose the standardization where possible. On
Oahu, there are different patrol districts and some things just don't work as
well in Waikiki as it they do in Waianae. That's to be expected, policing is a
little different in those two districts. Whoever gets this job is going to have to
involve the men and women who are on the beat doing the job and get them
to buy into this idea that we're one department and after that, the dominoes
start to fall.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he has a different perspective. He worked as a
federal partner on this island. He saw that happening every single day. As a
federal partner, he tried to do things with the department. It wasn't the
individuals that he was working with, it was the procedures that seems
inconsistent between Area I and Area II. As someone who wanted to help the
community and use his outreach and breadth of experience, it was kind of
frustrating. As stated earlier during one of the testimonies, regarding other
federal partners, they all had that problem, and it was very hard. You want to
do what's right, but sometimes it works better in Kona and sometimes it
works better in Hilo and there's no consistency. Seeing that, he wants
consistency, he wants it to be unified and they have to do that through
leadership and getting on the same page. As chief, he plans on spending at
least one day working out of Kona. He understands Hilo is the base, and he
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gets that, but sometimes just having a presence shows that you're engaged
and you have to have engagement if you want everyone to buy into what
you're going to say.
➢ Paul Applegate stated the Big Island is 4,000 square miles, that's a huge
geographic area to have one central point to manage. He understands why
there's Area I and Area II, that work for their respective areas independently.
However, as chief, he would ask all the members for their input and
encourage input. The people that do the job and are there in the trenches
every day have the answers, it's just that nobody asked them what they
think. As chief, he would ask everyone; civilian staff, sworn officers,
command staff, retirees, and the public what they think. He's not opposed to
some form of reorganization, he doesn't know because he doesn't know
enough yet. Like Mr. Ignacio stated earlier, he would spend part of his week
on the west side. A repeated thing you'll always hear from him is always treat
everyone with fairness, treat them consistently, and follow policy. He would
make sure that both sides have equal access to resources because it's one
department. It would be a collaborative effort to come up with solutions. As
chief, it would be his decision, but he would want that input from all
stakeholders to make that decision.
• Commissioner Quartararo stated one of the ironies that he sees, especially with Mr.
Ignacio and his life history.... He asked Mr. Ignacio what years he was a police
officer. Mr. Ignacio stated from 93-96 he was with the Honolulu PD, he transferred
to Hawaii County PD in 96-2000, then he went into the FBI. He retired from the FBI
on November 30, 2021. Commissioner Quartararo stated had you applied to be a
police officer here again, having served all that time with the FBI, you would be
required to start over in the academy. With all your experience with the FBI for 20
years has got to sit on a shelf for a couple of years until you work your way back as
a police officer. He further stated if you're a police officer on the mainland, you're
given no credit if you want to become a police officer in Hawaii, you've got to start
over. Where are you as far as that sort of thing goes? Commissioner Quartararo
stated that he's been on the commission for almost three years and at every
meeting they're going over the personnel, showing 70-80 officers short. He thinks a
part of the problem is we can't afford ourselves transfers from the mainland
because do you want to take a cut in pay and start over at the bottom when you've
got 10-20 years of experience? He further stated that he keeps hearing about the
Northwest, it's almost like a drain, and the officers are being pulled from there
because they don't have the same prohibitions. He asked Edward Ignacio, where
are you as far as that goes?
➢ Edward Ignacio stated he thinks he understands the question and clarified
he's talking about bringing in talent that has a lot of experience, and currently
you would subject them to go into the academy again.
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Mr. Ignacio stated he feels that's an area that he believes they're losing
recruitment on. You mentioned the Pacific Northwest, since he was a police
officer, they've recruited guys from Honolulu PD because there's a strong
Hawaii-based community there. It's also a lateral, they learn the GOs for a
couple of weeks, go with an FTO, and they're on the street. He stated that he
would be in favor of that, we should recruit from the mainland. There's a lot of
experience out there, we should be looking for guys to come in and fill those
gaps that have experience. He would like to look at the current training
program as it pertains to those individuals that we're recruiting from the
mainland. He would be open to having a shortened academy where they go
over their GOs and procedures. He would take it one step further. If we have
guys from the mainland, he would want them to go through a Hawaiian culture
class, so they can understand the differences of being in Hawaii. Even if you
look at our state, if you're a local from the Big Island, it's a little different from
being a resident of Honolulu. We're very unique here. If we want the officers to
be successful here, they're going to need to understand that.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated in researching the department and trying to think
through possibilities and applying for this position, he did learn that Hawaii
County does have a seven to eight-week lateral transfer program. He knows of
people who used to be beat partners with him in Honolulu who transferred
over to the Big Island. As far as credit and years served, those things do
transfer over because it's a SHOPO position to a SHOPO position. It's an ERS
position to an ERS position. If we're talking about within the state, there is
some flexibility in policy. Such a program does exist. It's seven to eight weeks
of classroom, requalifications based on department standards with use-of-
force options, and learning about the revised ordinance in the Big Island as
opposed to where you came from. The Hawaii Revised Statutes are the same,
so we can boil that down, and following that seven to eight-week period is a
period with an FTO. When he was in Human resources in Honolulu, they were
about to start their very first class of mainland lateral transfers. They
developed a curriculum, worked through HR issues, negotiated with SHOPO,
and determined a pay step that the lateral transfers would enter at. Just as
they were about to notify those candidates, they had gone through an informal
director's interview, interviewed all of them and then the administration in the
department put the brakes on it. It's absolutely something that we should take
a look at. There needs to be an aspect to the lateral type of program that
introduces people to the culture to make sure that they're going to be able to
police in our neighborhoods, in our community the way that our community
members expect.
➢ Sherry Bird stated that she is a supporter. They already accept transfers from
within the State. The difficulty is getting those mainland transfers. She doesn't
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think they're at the state that Honolulu was at, as far as accepting mainland
transfers, but that's something she would definitely look into. As much as
they're capitalizing on their trained officers, she would also like to receive and
look into methods on how we can do that. It would help with their recruitment
as well and hopefully help fast-track some officers so that we can get them out
onto the road where they're needed.
➢ Paul Applegate stated that at the department he's currently at, they don't do
lateral transfers, but they do accept applicants with an abbreviated training
program because of their extensive experience. You have some people with
years and years of law enforcement experience, and very good backgrounds,
so they have an abbreviated course for them to get the Hawaii Laws and
practices in place. He would want to look into doing that here as chief. First
and foremost, as he said earlier, he would want to recruit local talent. Part of
that is having a regularly scheduled recruit class on the west side. We could
use technology such as Zoom at times. As far as lateral in State transfers,
he's in support of that. He thinks people freely move between islands for
various islands, as he did. The laws are all the same, except for departmental
policies and procedures and local ordinances.
Vice Chair Brown stated he thinks what Commissioner Quartararo was getting at was
that several years ago this gentleman who was either the chief or sheriff in Washington
DC arrested or got the DC sniper. He tried to move to Honolulu and started in patrol.
Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that he can share a little bit because he met him when he
came to Honolulu. He applied just like everybody else, went through a background,
went through a full academy, and worked as a patrol officer basically an entry-level
position from the day he started.
• Commissioner Lassiter asked how would you feel about what your salary would be
in this position. Is it an acceptable one?
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated it's a concern, but it's not a concern for him as
an individual. As an applicant for the job, he understood from the job
announcement what his salary would be and he is totally ok with that. His
concern is, how do you choose a deputy chief and convince that person to
follow you and to do all this work? It's a lot more responsibility, it's a lot more
work, it's a lot more public. The salary commission hasn't met since 2017 or
2018 and hasn't adjusted pointed salaries. How do you convince that person
to do that job for a significant cut in pay? He thinks the salary commission
here needs to take a hard look at the fact that assistant chiefs are going to be
making more than the deputy chief. By the end of 2024, by the end of the
contract period in 2024, an assistant chief here will make approximately 34%
more than the deputy chief here. To him, that's a huge issue, it makes it a
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huge impediment to finding the right person. He knows the salary
commission is who sets the salaries and it's not really a negotiation thing, it's
just a matter of getting the right information and the rights facts in front of the
salary commission, so they can adjust salaries. If they haven't done it in four
or five years, SHOPO has received several across-the-board pay increases.
This is something he thinks should be looked at.
➢ Sherry Bird stated she knew the salary when she signed up for the position.
She is perfectly fine with what it is.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated he knew what the salary was when he applied for it.
He agrees with Mr. Moszkowicz's points but wanted to add, what's the
motivation for your soon-to-be leaders to become leaders when your captain
is making more than your chief or major? That creates an area of stagnation
because you'll get to a point, say you're an assistant chief or major, they're
making more than the chief, so why take on the added responsibility? What
makes the chief position more appealing? The candidates sitting before you
are looking at serving their community and the department, that's why they're
sitting here right now. You also could've had some people along the way that
probably would've been great chiefs as well, but they chose not to because it
would be a cut in pay. He thinks this is something that needs to be looked at.
➢ Paul Applegate stated if he gets selected as chief he would take a cut in pay
also. The reason he put in for this position was to serve and do the best that
he can to make a difference. He thinks at some point in the future, something
like a percentage, a certain percentage higher than the highest assistant
chief would be something that would address the issue.
• Commissioner Andrion stated briefly describe your position on HRS 134-3, better
known as Hawaii's newly enacted conceal and carry laws. What challenges police
officer training and administrative processes need to be accessed in implementing
and enforcing?
➢ Paul Applegate stated this is one of those legislations that are enacted and
we have to abide by because it's a constitutional right. It came upon the state
relatively quickly. At his current department, they moved rapidly to adjust and
address the concerns. He stated this is one of those areas of training that
cannot be ignored and would have to be dealt with immediately. The officers
aren't used to walking around and knowing someone is carrying a concealed
firearm on a daily basis, it's not a common occurrence. To have that kind of
specific training is very important so there's no misunderstanding and no
accidents that happen. It would be a definite priority to get this out. Another
component of that would be communicating this to the public, so they
understand what their responsibilities are and what's happening. There are a
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lot of questions and all of those questions have to be vetted through their
counsel. At the same time, preserving everyone's rights.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated after the Supreme Court ruled that the second
amendment right, to conceal carry is something that we should abide by...
there are a lot of misconceptions going on out there and a lot of
inconsistencies. One of the things that we'll hopefully get to is that they codify
a procedure statewide so that each county is not having to deal with it in
different ways or confusing the public. Confusion leads to bad perception,
which leads to people being unhappy. He hopes that we will have a codified
procedure statewide and then it would be ratified by the chiefs at the very
end. A big piece of that is training. They need to train everyone, not just train
citizens on where they can and can't carry their weapons and how they're
going to interact with police. We also need to train our police officers on how
they will interact. It's very uncomfortable in Hawaii, all of a sudden you're
coming across someone that may be carrying a weapon. How do you
interact? To include the public, how will they interact with the officers?
Everyone needs to be on the same page, receive the same training, and the
same message, and be consistent about it. We're not the last State to allow
concealed carry, there are other states out there that have been doing it for
decades, let's look at their processes and maybe learn from their mistakes.
Again, establish learning from best practices and maybe see if we can
implement that here.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated in the news last night was a story about
Honolulu issuing its first ten permits. They haven't gotten any kind of in-
person or other training. Reading the SHOPO forum on Facebook, Hawaii
County officers haven't received any kind of PowerDMS training either.
That's a huge opportunity that's being missed. When we all went through
various academies in Hawaii, we were taught if someone has a gun, that's a
crime, so our training, tactical response, and reactions are all built into that
assumption and we can't necessarily make that assumption anymore. To un-
train that is going to require some tactical and hands-on training. At the same
time, he thinks it's important that the chief promotes the message that this is
a right. It's not something that we have to deal with "unfortunately" any
different than any other right. Once affirmed by the Supreme Court as a
right, it's our responsibility as police officers and as the chief of police for
Hawaii County to protect that right and to make sure that right is
administered equally and fairly. It's also a communication piece to the public.
What the public may or may not realize is there are probably already 400-500
people, law-abiding citizens who are walking around right now on the Big
Island who have a concealed firearm. Every police officer off duty likely has
one, all the officers who are retired; local, federal, those who have LEOSA
permits are also law-abiding citizens who are carrying firearms. It's not a new
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thing, it's just that we're trained to expect that. We're not trained to expect
someone whom we don't recognize as law enforcement.
➢ Sherry Bird stated as far as their county, they have issued concealed carry
weapon permits. She stated her police department has received training.
Can they do more? Of course, they can do more. She would promote
practical, hands-on scenario type of training. They have disseminated
training via their PowerDMS system to the officers. Also engaging with the
community and making them aware that this is what's in place, this is why it's
in place and if they have concerns they're more than welcome to call. They
have a system in place in their computer system, if they're encountering
someone, investigating someone, they can look up their name and there will
be a notification attached to that permit holder's name, so the officer has that
in the back of their minds. Not saying permit holders are criminals or
anything, but for officer safety reasons, that flag comes up. Part of the
training also provides the officers with responses. If you encounter someone
with a permit and they're engaged in criminal activity, here's what you need
to do. They do have training in place, but they could do more and they need
to balance that with protecting individual rights
• Commissioner Lassiter asked if one of you were to be selected as police chief,
would you select another candidate to be your deputy?
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated they kind of touched on that a little bit. He
stated if he were selected he would choose a deputy from within the
department. He thinks that when selecting a deputy chief from within the
ranks of the Hawaii County Police Department, it's important to find someone
who shares your values and whom you can trust to act on your behalf and
someone who can help lead the administration. That being said, he thinks
the question might put the cart before the horse a little bit. It involves
conversations that need to be had that haven't been had. They're on a table
with very well-qualified people and who else better to pick all things being
equal than someone who is equally as well as qualified as you to take the
job?
➢ Sherry Bird stated there's a table full of qualified people here. She doesn't
want to put that cart before the horse. Should she get the position and have
to make that decision, she will definitely consider qualified personnel for that
spot.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated not to echo everyone's sentiments, but he agrees with
them. There are qualified people there and as he said before, he will pick
someone from within the department and there's only one person in the
department there. You need to find someone who is like-minded as you and
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shares the same vision and goals. Those conversations haven't really taken
place with individuals at this table or anywhere else. He's going to have to
wait to say that, but he's always open.
➢ Paul Applegate stated he would definitely select someone from within the
department. There are many qualified individuals. He hasn't had any
conversations with anyone, but he knows reputations and if selected he
would make that decision at that time.
Commissioner Toci stated yesterday SHOPO mentioned Hawaii County has a lot of
grievances, the most in the state. Whether it's from community members or from
officers from within. This may be because of attitude and unethical practices.
Someone requested this question be asked. She asked the candidates do you
believe that the department has lost good officers due to the woke culture. When
officers raise their voices of concerns that are going on in the department, the
department turns a blind eye or a deaf ear. If yes, explain how you would address
this. For example, an officer in an administrative position who holds conversations
with officers that are inappropriate, and sexual in nature that degrades women. How
would you address that? But first of all, do you believe we lost good officers
because complaints have been turned on deaf ears?
➢ Sherry Bird stated she is not aware of losing officers because complaints
haven't been heard. She is personally not aware of that, she's not saying it
hasn't happened. As far as personnel engaging in sexual discrimination or
sexual harassment or behaviors like that is absolutely not tolerated. If an
allegation comes forward of that nature, an investigation will take place. If
through investigation, it's proven that the allegations were true then
appropriate discipline will be carried out. It doesn't matter what rank you are,
it shouldn't matter. That kind of behavior is absolutely not tolerated. We don't
condone it, we don't promote it, and we don't encourage it.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated regardless of your rank, it's not accepted or
tolerated, but if proven, the rank certainly is going to add to whatever
discipline might be administered. People who hold supervisory positions are
held to a higher standard. Specifically, to the question asking if the police
department has lost good people due to folks raising concerns over a blind
eye or deaf ear being turned, while he can't point you to a specific name,
there are a couple of places he would point you to the answer of that
question. He's hoping that when you leave the Hawaii County Police
Department a thorough exit interview is conducted. That's something that
they started in Honolulu. Some people opt not to participate, but the folks that
do provide a lot of good feedback into opportunities to save a potential
resignation or to make improvements in the department. He's hoping there's
some sort of exit interview data somewhere. If not that's certainly a practice
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December 13, 2022
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that would be implemented. Regarding a superior officer engaging in
inappropriate behavior, it's one of those problems that just compounds upon
itself. Is it possible to even conduct an impartial investigation if the culture is
such that a superior officer would engage in that behavior in the first place?
Or might the investigator fear retaliation? In that aspect, he would suggest,
especially for a superior officer, that the investigation be conducted by
someone outside of the police department. Human Resources in Honolulu
has an equal opportunity officer and her staff assists with similar
investigations in Honolulu. If it's a subordinate officer then they have
detectives that can do those investigations. Certainly, we want to make sure
that a fair and impartial investigation occurs not only so that appropriate
action can be taken at the divisional level, as far as reeducation or training,
termination, or suspension, but also the city and county are aware of the
investigation and can take appropriate action as well.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated that the department has been losing good talent.
There's a sweet spot in your career, between your 5t" and 15t" year where at
that time you decided if you're going to be a good patrol officer or sergeant
and stay that course or are you going to elevate yourself and be a leader in
the department? He's been retired for a year and it's been great, he's been
sitting at the coffee shop and people know who he is, they know he was an
FBI guy and he was a police officer. They feel comfortable coming up to him
and talking stories. He heard a lot of concerns from the community. This is
absent of them even knowing that he was eventually going to put in for police
chief. He knows a lot of the officers, he's known them for years and he
worked with them. He heard their grievances and that's one of the reasons
why they're leaving. They feel like they're not being heard. He watched
progressively as young talent spoke to him, expressed that they were
thinking of leaving, and slowly progressively watched them transfer away. It's
sad to see, it's a sad loss. He stated this issue needs to be addressed, it's
something that can be addressed through leadership and training and
making the guys feel like they can be heard. He doesn't know if the message
is lost on the way up the chain or how or why it's not getting to the proper
level, but we need to figure that out. We can't keep losing these talents. We
need to recognize this and deal with it and try to address it, use it, and make
their lives better. Again, it's a quality-of-life thing and a work environment
thing. Regarding inappropriate behavior, that's unacceptable, no matter what
level you are and it will be dealt with swiftly.
➢ Paul Applegate stated he doesn't have any personal first-hand knowledge of
officers leaving this department prematurely for the reasons spoke about.
However, when you have officers leaving the department prematurely when
it's not for personal reasons or anything of those, they feel like they're not
relevant or being treated fairly or the morale is low. It's a leadership issue
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because the police chief is in charge of the department and sets the tone and
standard and the bar of what is acceptable behavior. The chief sets that
accountability to everyone, including himself. If he's selected as chief, he
expects to be held to the highest standard above anyone in the department.
he would hold his commanders to a high standard, the same standard that
he holds officers to. There's no disparity in treatment. There's one standard
for all. It starts at the top and it's a leadership issue. Sexual harassment or
harassment of any kind will not be tolerated and would be dealt with in
accordance with applicable procedures and laws. All procedures will be
followed and those who commit those actions would have their due process,
innocent until proven guilty. That will not be tolerated, it would be
communicated as such, zero tolerance.
• Commissioner Toci stated here on the Big Island we have a history of officers killing
their wives. In the organization that she is in, they assist families with filing
temporary restraining orders. She asked, under your leadership, how would you
address officers' needs for self-care and mental health respite without retaliation or
"red flagging" them, allowing them the necessary tools they need for their wellness
for their self-care? How would you address that under your leadership and support
wellness for them?
➢ Sherry Bird stated under her leadership officer wellness has to be one of
their higher priorities. They're out there, they're seeing things that normally
people wouldn't see in their lifetime, tragic things. As she spoke about
yesterday, policing has evolved. Before you just had tough skin and deal with
whatever you had to deal with and move on to the next. It's much different
nowadays and we recognize that. These events and incidents play a big part
on their mental wellness, things that we had in place already departmentally
is our peer support system. If we know that a brother or sister officer is
experiencing a difficult time, we can call upon our peer support team to reach
out and give that informal counseling, a check on the officer. We also have
the chaplain program. Chaplains are available, they can call on them and
they're able to reach out and communicate as well. There's also the
Employee Assistance Program where employees can remain confidential
and call in to seek counseling, the department doesn't need to know about it.
As chief, she would want to take it to another level and explore wellness
apps. They spoke about innovation, creativity, and using technology. There
are many wellness apps available. Everyone has a phone, so why can't we
explore that and get those programs available for all of our department
personnel so they can have a resource readily available to them and no one
needs to know about it. Also, as chief, promoting not just counseling for
wellness, but also taking care of ourselves such as diet and exercise. She
would like to explore more about making sure our officers remain physically
fit as well. Maybe creating an incentive program, starting off with a voluntary
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physical fitness test or something to that effect to stimulate some ideas for
physical readiness. Mental wellness for our officers and all department
personnel is very important and it's something she would definitely look into.
Commissioner Sur asked if there is a requirement for you guys to keep in good
shape.
Sherry Bird stated they do not have an established physical fitness test that they
have to take every year. They have to go to the county physician and make sure
that they meet physical conditions in that respect. As far as a physical fitness test
they have to take outside of getting hired by the police department going through
recruit class, no.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated under his administration he would create a
wellness unit, which could be staffed by civilians, on a contract basis. It's
important that we establish a wellness unit whose focus solely is on health
and wellness; mentally, physically, spiritually, and emotionally of department
employees and their family members. He has seen signs of depression and
anxiety in department members and family members of department
employees for the last 20 years. The department has gotten a lot better at
identifying and providing supervisors with training. This isn't a one-size-fits-
all, magic bullet fix, it doesn't exist. There's such a wide path and a variety of
situations and conditions. In addition to expanding peer support and finding
more volunteer chaplains and using technology, he thinks developing a
wellness unit that is specifically responsible for that helps it not slide off
someone's priority list. He further shared that the Honolulu Police
Department has a marriage and family counselor who works for the
department. That thought process of finding other resources that are out
there, bringing them in, and having them be department funded.
Commissioner Toci asked if officers have they been dinged for seeking therapy or
counseling.
Benjamin Moszkowicz stated no, but there are certain lines, and if they are crossed
where an employee tells the therapist that they are imminently going to hurt
themselves or someone else then there are red flags of professional care standards
that have to happen. For people who seek counseling from the counselor who don't
cross that line, there's no record. She encourages you to use a fake name when
you go to her. It's built to keep the employer out of the business of the employees,
but at the same providing employees with a resource that they need for help,
direction, and treatment. One of the things that he learned from attending the FBI
academy recently is that there is a whole variety of physical fitness standards and
requirements that are out there. He thinks the time has come for this and all
departments in the state to establish some sort of standard. It's going to require
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collaboration, a long-term plan, communication, and a ramp-up period to get people
whose physical fitness has fallen from when they first started in the department.
Ultimately, as the chief, representative of the department, he's concerned about
people's health, and their physical and mental fitness.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated physical and mental wellness in the workforce is a big
thing. It's not just a perception of how an officer looks in uniform. He comes
from the FBI family, they have a PT test every year and that PT test is based
on standards regarding your age. A 21-year-old just coming into the
department isn't held to the same expectations as a 53-year-old that's
coming toward the twilight of his career. They also take into consideration
injuries that you've sustained throughout your career and other factors. The
FBI took a long time to implement this. It started off as a voluntary thing,
there was trial and error. While it was in the voluntary stage, it was kind of
like a big push to the workforce about taking care of yourself. They both
touched on the different programs and ways you can check on mental
wellness and he agrees wholeheartedly with that. It's something that affects
a lot of things. Not only for their personal life and domestic violence, but how
they interact with the public. If they're not in the right state of mind and are
put in a situation where they have to make a split-second decision, their
mental well-being, and their physical well-being play a part in that decision-
making process.
➢ Paul Applegate stated domestic violence is a tragedy, especially when it
ends up in fatalities. As chief, he will wholeheartedly support the combat of
domestic violence. At his current position, they encourage officers in his unit,
in his bureau to do what they call wellness checks with the EAR It's not
mandatory, but it's highly encouraged. They sell it to the officers, to the
supervisors, who sell it to their personnel. This goes with the department
goals that he would want to have; employee wellness, safety, and resiliency.
Enhance organizational efficiency and increase positive community
engagement. Every year, each unit, all actions go towards accomplishing
these three goals. He would like to encourage all members of the
department, which includes the dispatchers. As far as physical fitness, he
would want to work collectively with SHOPO and HGEA to help improve the
quality of life of employees. It's not only to be productive and healthy
employees now, it's so that they can enjoy their lives after retirement and
have longevity. A 30/30 plan would be proposed. We give you 30 minutes of
our time and you give me 30 minutes of your time and you can work out at
designated facilities such as gyms, a track, or whatever we collectively come
up with. We'll donate 30 minutes of our company time, but they have to sign
in and agree that they're going to give 30 minutes of their time, so it's one
hour, out of three days a week or whatever it is, these are just ideas.
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December 13, 2022
Page 24
• Commissioner Toci said it was previously stated that the Big Island doesn't have
annual recall training. What is annual recall training and why do I feel like we need it
and how would you implement it and would you implement it ASAP?
➢ Sherry Bird stated regarding annual recall training, we do not have an in-
person annual recall training which would include whatever we want to
include in it, basically, but the important training; use of force, and arrest
control techniques, we don't have that. As police chief, that's something she
would be a supporter of and implement that program. It's necessary, often
times they review use of force incidents and in those incidents, the officers
are saying that they haven't had training since recruit class. That is a very
valid concern and it's a concern for her and it's something she would take
proactive action on to implement this annual recall training. There are a lot of
logistics that need to be worked out, as far as instructors, our island, and
managing the overtime that would come with it, but that would be a priority to
put in place under her leadership.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated annual recall training is absolutely a necessity
and is a must. You could use technology to do some of it. Some training can
be accomplished very easily with a slideshow and voiceover presentation
followed by a quiz to make sure you paid attention. Tactical training, physical
assessments, and use of force training cannot be done that way. We could
teach subject matter that way, but not the physical skills. He stated in his
mind this is a very short term and has to happen as quickly as possible, by
February or March. We're going to have to figure out lesson plans and
logistics, but it has to start immediately. You can't wait to get the whole
department's schedule to start something, you need to start very quickly and
knock down that low-hanging fruit, and get some stuff accomplished. Even if
it's twice a year for one day, instead of once a year for two days. There are a
lot of different flavors and varieties of how we can pull folks in and relocate
training from one area to another. All you need is a classroom or dojo to
teach use of force scenario. If the training staff is mobile then we can get it
accomplished even quicker. To him, this is a six to eight-week
implementation after taking office.
Commissioner Toci asked if Honolulu PD does annual recall training. Mr.
Moszkowicz stated yes, both in-person and online.
➢ Edward Ignacio stated recall training is very important. He remembers doing
it when he was in the Honolulu Police Department, it's a great thing. It allows
your officers to not only refresh their training but adjust to current situations
that would come up because things change. For example, concealed carry,
that gives you that opportunity to put that out there and train the guys
immediately without having to schedule extra things. It brings consistency.
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Special Meeting Minutes
December 13, 2022
Page 25
everyone in the department will have the same training and have the same
understanding of what they're supposed to do. That also helps the
supervisors to be better leaders and to better support those decisions. If they
don't understand or as Ms. Bird had mentioned, some of them say " the last
time I was trained it was this..." or "back when I was trained then..." well
now everyone would be on the same page. It also brings good comradery,
you're training with your watch, with your sergeant, everyone is training
together and it builds teams.
➢ Paul Applegate stated annual recall training is very important because police
officers have high liability activity that they do every day and we need to be
current in doing it the right way with the current Supreme Court rulings or
whatever it may be. If not, you bring high liability to the department. The
officer's and citizens' safety could be in jeopardy if officers aren't up to speed
with the current trainings. The barriers to this are scheduling and overtime,
both of which could be overcome. As chief, he would immediately work on
this issue with commanders and make sure that every person that needs to
be trained gets the training that they need.
Commissioner Toci asked if Kauai PD does annual recall training. Mr. Applegate
stated yes, and it is expensive.
Vice Chair Brown stated there were a couple of troubling things they heard today
and in the past when they started the process of hiring the police chief. It was that
the general orders only apply to the rank and file and not to admin. He also heard
that training for existing officers is pretty much non-existent and he has to make
sure that he points out that it's not the recruit training because he has heard nothing
but excellent comments about the recruit training that goes on. He hopes whoever
is selected as chief will at least try to take some steps to try to improve the training
for current officers.
• Commissioner Andrion had a question specifically for Benjamin Moszkowicz. He
stated there have been several public testimonies brought before this commission
on behalf of Major Bird, Mr. Ignacio, and Captain Applegate, in contrast, they have
not received any on your behalf. Because this is a process that involves, relies and
serves on behalf of the public do you see this as problematic? What is your
message to the public and to this commission considering this, especially if you are
selected as the next chief of police?
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that's an excellent question and certainly is
something that needs to be addressed. He's not from here, he was not born
on the Big Island, and he has not worked for the Hawaii County Police
Department. He has developed himself professionally and academically to
the point where he feels he can contribute to the department and he thinks
Hawaii Police Commission
Special Meeting Minutes
December 13, 2022
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he will do an amazing job as the chief. He can also point them to the volumes
of public support that he received when he applied for the Honolulu chief job
six months ago. He intentionally didn't go out and drum up support. Having
learned from the previous process, while he feels like public testimony and
support are important, he also understands that this is not a popularity
contest. Ultimately the decision of who you select will boil down to the eight
of you who are participating in the process. He would hope that they would
look at the total sum picture of their application, interrogatories, etc. He has
an executive-level skillset where he can come in, form collaborations, identify
partners, find solutions that work, and as the CIO basically of this company,
of the Hawaii County Police Department, those are the skills that he brings to
the table.
• Commissioner Andrion had a question for Sherry Bird. He stated he'd like to revisit
the concerns of the commission and members of the public in regard to the
perceived conflict of interest relating to the hotel accommodations you received for
your official duties at the Ironman event. In Hawaii County Code, Code of Ethics,
Section 2-91.4., no officer or employee shall solicit, accept, or receive, directly or
indirectly, any gift, whether in the form of money, service, loan, travel,
entertainment, hospitality, thing, or promise or in any other form, under
circumstances in which it can reasonably be inferred that the gift is intended to
influence the officer or employee in the performance of the officer's or employee's
official duties or is intended as a reward for any official action on the officer's or
employee's part. Question is, do you still stand by your statement that you did not
violate the department's General Order regarding gifts, and secondly with this
perception and the public now realize, would you make any changes in the way
HPD works in connection with the annual Ironman event?
➢ Sherry Bird stated that she would revisit it, but she will stand by her position
that she did not utilize the hotel room or perceive it to be a gift or a reward for
her actions acting in her official capacity working this event to ensure the
public safety. It was by no means in any way influencing any decision that
she made, other than making sure the event ran smoothly and everybody
was protected. She's proud to say that no one got hurt, that was her ultimate
message to the personnel. As far as the hotel room, it was there to use the
restroom, to maybe get a couple of hours of sleep, but definitely, it wasn't
given as a reward for her position, it didn't influence her in any way. She
stated again, it was just part of her official capacity, running the police
operations for the Ironman event.
• Commissioner Andrion stated earlier we heard testimony regarding lack of training
and low retention of officers, due to upper management failing to keep up with
current trends, and current training. Frustration was shared that even in your current
position of influence there have allegedly not been any changes or improvements in
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Special Meeting Minutes
December 13, 2022
Page 27
training made through your leadership. Why would that be perceived? It would
seem that there are officers that are desperate for change and would prefer a police
chief from outside of the "same old same old." What confidence can you give this
commission and grieved officers that things will change once you are chief and/or
would you support the idea that the department would perhaps be better served and
strengthened with a combination of someone with an outside perspective as chief
and someone like yourself as deputy to create a robust wholesome administration?
➢ Sherry Bird stated as she made clear, training is important. She doesn't want
the commission to think that our department doesn't go through training.
They go through a lot of training. Training specific to a position, for instance,
if you're assigned to the Traffic Enforcement Unit, there's a lot of training you
have to go through for that specialized position. Each specialized section
goes through training and on top of that we have reoccurring training, such
as training for their tasers. She spoke about the annual recall training earlier,
it's not in person, but they have annual training online, via PowerDMS,
among other methods. They have a lot of training, as well as roll call training,
training during briefings, and things like that. Can we do better? She said yes
and that is what she will commit to.
Sherry Bird stated as far as the decision-making process, the commission
has a big decision whether you want somebody internally or externally. She
completely respects this process and appreciates having to go through this.
She is an internal candidate and as you go through different positions in your
career, unfortunately sometimes you have to make decisions that's not going
to get the popular vote, but that's why we're in these positions. She will
support whoever their chief is and if asked to serve as a deputy, she will
engage in that conversation. She's always open to ideas and suggestions.
Going back to training as an example. When she was a commander in the
South Kohala district, she saw a need for the "Stop the Bleed" training before
departmentally being moved to tourniquet training. She got in touch with a
trainer with a medical hospital, who volunteered to come and train the South
Kohala district. Also, in the South Kohala district, firearms training, they have
the ability to use the range out there, she's a strong proponent of training.
Firearms training, they have that ability, they have instructors out there and
she is still a supporter and lets the commander know let's make sure to
continue to have these once a month. The firearms instructor goes out there,
he makes the range day available and does excellent training. She made it
available to all of Area II. The range days are sent out and is available to
everybody, manpower permitting. In the area that she's responsible for, they
have instructors trained in various aspects. As the major, it's not necessarily
her responsibility to be the one to go and train personnel. They have
personnel that is instructors, she encourages the commanders to use who
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Special Meeting Minutes
December 13, 2022
Page 28
they have. She stated why can't we train with what we have available to us
right here and right now.
Commissioner Sur had a question for Benjamin Moszkowicz. He stated that he has
a background of having been in school for many years, so he can relate to his
master's and PhD. Because of what he knows and what he had to do to get where
he's at. He asked how do you expect to do a PhD program and be a police chief at
the same time.
➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated he applied and has been accepted into
Gonzaga's leadership PhD program. He's been taking courses. He's taking a
leadership course now and is scheduled for one in the spring. He's scheduled
to start the program in the summer. It's a question of priorities, if he is selected
for this position then it's something he's going to reexamine. He's waited this
long in life to go back to school in the first place. He's certainly willing to delay
earning a PhD until after he retires from the police department. He's a person
who likes to have about a hundred different balls in the air. He works better
when he's doing a bunch of things, but at the same time, being able to know
and prioritize...this job would be a huge time commitment and that's a priority
that would slide ahead of him continuing his academic progress, at least
temporarily.
Vice Chair Brown thanked all candidates and dismissed them for the day.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Commissioner Andrion motioned to meet in executive session to consult with the board's
attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the commission's powers, duties, privileges,
immunities, and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5 (a)(4). Commissioner Lassiter seconded,
with no discussion, and it carried unanimously. Executive session convened at 12:33 p.m.
Motion to reconvene open session made by Commissioner Toci, seconded by
Commissioner Lassiter, with no discussion and it carried unanimously. Regular session
reconvened at 1:56 p.m.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Vice Chair Brown announced the next meeting is scheduled for Friday, December 16,
2022, at 9:00 a.m., at the County Building, Council Chambers, Suite 1401, 25 Aupuni St.,
Hilo, Hawaii. The agenda is posted and he hopes to see everyone there.
ADJOURNMENT
Motion to adjourn was made by Commissioner Quartararo, seconded by Commissioner
Sur, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously, the meeting adjourned at 1:57 p.m.
Hawaii Police Commission
Special Meeting Minutes
December 13, 2022
Page 29
SUBMITTED BY: CHARISSE CORREA, SECRETARY
APPROVED BY: THOMAS BROWN, CHAIR