2005-06-17 KPC REZ04-033 SMA04-009

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YUEN:If I can rephrase your question youre asking if the cumulative effect of the SMA permits would be such that traffic would get so bad that public access to the shoreline, which depends upon Alii Drive in this area would be affected to a degree that we would say this is something that the SMA law was meant to cover. And I think its theoretically its possible and thats why in previous discussions on this Ive said traffic- although traffic per say is not an SMA issue that if it rises to the extent that it interferes with the ability of the public to get to the ocean to enjoy the public recreational resources and the like that yes theoretically you could take traffic into account. As to whether the SMA permits on existing zoned property that we have approved or are pending have been of a scale that really make things that much worse on Alii Drive I dont think that thats true. And I dont think that, at least what Im aware of pending along Alii Drive on the zoned, already zoned but needs SMA side is that significant. We have 19 here, additional if this goes through, the change of zone goes through. We had a dozen from the Huggett - Soto application that we saw earlier. Trying to dredge my memory here but- we have Kona Alii rezone which I think was- was that an SMA? You know the one Im talking about thatwasanother.Butthatwas,thathad,thatwasalreadyzonedforsomethinganditwas,Idont remember what the additional was there. Weve had another rezone. We had the Lehua Lani rezone along Alii Drive which ended up with 58 I think was the total. Were, there are some vacant, theres some properties along Alii Drive that are, that have been zoned before and are, all they need is SMA permits. I dont think its to that extent that the, that these actions are going to make Alii Drive intolerable. Theres more detail on this. The Applicant does have a TIAR which talks about the existing conditions on Alii Drive and their- how much their additional 20 units, 19 units, how much difference that would make. Thats certainly more technical and professional than what Im saying to you. But, I also should mention that we have tried to in this application to accommodate a road that is- for this immediate area is probably the only thing that provides any help at all. Its the only feasible thing in this immediate area. For the broader picture of Alii Drive we have to have the Alii Parkway to relieve traffic off of Alii Drive. And we also need a couple of mauka-makai type roads. Those are all at various stages of being worked on or having problems but we, thats the only other solution to it. GRAHAM:Well, needless to say you havent totally convinced me by any means. First I mean you said theoretical and you said to the extent that the road conditions going to access the beach becomes intolerable. But I did just read from the Board of Appeals where it said substantial adverse not intolerable and not theoretical but that was what the court said. And you know I was around here in 1975 when the EIS Law went into and I think Coastal Zone Management went in sometime around then and certainly weve had a substantial adverse effect on access along the coastline since that time which has all gone through with SMA permits. And, the only way I can read what youre saying thats sort of even square with what I can see is just reality is that you feel that the rate at which these additional rezonings will add to the problem will be equally matched by a rate of improved roads mauka-makai or Alii Parkway. Is that your understanding or am I reading too much? YUEN:On the SMA permit side its, its, I dont think the Supreme Court is saying that you can deny an SMA permit simply because it makes traffic get significantly worse. It would have to be something that was, that had significant negative effect on using the road to get to the ocean. And you know, its a little different than saying that there may be some additional delay in people using Alii Drive to get to a County beach park. I think were talking EXHIBIT E 16