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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-07-02 TISHIMARU PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 2, 2004 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of ISHIMARU, LLC (SPP 04-009) was called to order at 2:10 p.m. in the County Building, Councilroom - Room 201, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Second Vice-Chairman Hannah Springer presiding. PRESENT:Hannah Springer ABSENT & EXCUSED: Fred Galdones C. Kimo AlamedaEarl Fujikawa Bill GrahamBill Thibadeau Jeffrey McCall Francis Smith Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher J. Yuen, Planning Director Norman Hayashi, Planning Program Manager PhyllisFujimoto,StaffPlanner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner Kelly Gomes representing Ex-officio Member Bruce McClure And approximately 12 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: ISHIMARU, LLC (SPP 04-009) Special Permit to allow the establishment of a quarry and related uses, including a crushing, concrete batching, and asphalt concrete plant on approximately 12 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural district. The property is located approximately 4,000 feet makai of the Hawaii Belt Highway (State Highway 11), in the vicinity of Naalehu Village, Kahilipali Iki, Ka'u, Hawaii, TMK: 9-5-7: portion of 29. SPRINGER:I€d like to call this meeting of the Hawaii County Planning Commission back to order. We are now on Agenda Item 3. The Applicant is Ishimaru, LLC (SPP 04-009). This is a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a quarry and related uses, including a crushing, concrete batching and asphalt concrete plant on approximately 12 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural district. The property is located approximately 4,000 feet makai of the Hawaii Belt Highway (State Highway 11), in the vicinity of Naalehu Village, Kahilipali Iki, Ka u, Hawaii, TMK: 9-5-7:portion of 29. Mr. Hayashi? HAYASHI:Thank you, Madam Chair. According to the location map, the subject property is indicated by this red dot. It is situated approximately 4,000 feet from the Hawaii Belt Highway, which would run, this would be towards the Hilo direction, and this would be towards Kona. Naalehu Village is situated at this location and EXHIBIT B Waiohinu Village is located here. The Discovery Harbor Subdivision, as well as the golf course, is located in this general vicinity, which would be west of the subject property. The Applicant intends to utilize a 12-acre portion of the property, of a larger property, for the proposed quarry. This would be the entire property; and the Applicant intends to utilize approximately 12 acres of that property for its quarry operation, which would include quarry and batching of materials, construction materials. This particular property was part of a previous Special Permit. There was a Special Permit that was granted back in 1972 for 25 acres of the subject property of which this particular 12-acre portion is a part of. That was for a quarry that was granted, again, back in June of 1972. That quarry permit existed until 1992, at which time the Applicant decided to abandon that permit since at that time there was a lack of demand for the quarry materials. The Planning Director is recommending approval of the subject request, subject to severalconditions.Arethereanyquestionsatthistime? SPRINGER:Commissioners?Norman,seeingnone,thankyouforthat presentation. At this time, I€d like to invite the Applicant€s representative forward. At this time, the representative and the six members of the public who have signed up to testify, if you can please raise your right hands to take your oath; and at the time of your testimony we€ll be asking for your names and addresses. If you can raise your right hands, please. Do you swear to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. SPRINGER:Thank you all. Starting with you, Mr. Fuke, if we could have your name and address, please? FUKE:Sure. Good afternoon, Madam Chair. My name is Sidney Fuke, I€m a planning consultant. I€m here assisting a long-time friend of mine, Tommy Ishimaru, on this application. Mr. Ishimaru is also here in the audience as well. He has had a chance to review the staff€s Background Report and the Recommendation, and found them to be accurate and acceptable. I would like to note, however, just more, there was an error in my report. Like I had indicated that there was one storage tank, water storage tank, on the property. In fact, Mr. Ishimaru corrected me and said there are actually two storage tanks on the property which can accommodate up to 14,000 gallons of water that was used when he originally had the operating quarry and the crushing site in that area. Aside from that, I think, you know, the report is rather complete; and, so, if there are any questions that the Commissioners may have, I€d be more than willing to respond. 2 SPRINGER:Mr. Fuke, what is the capacity then of those two water tanks? FUKE:Each of the water tanks holds 7,000 gallons. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, any questions of Mr. Fuke? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Fuke, you can step back. FUKE:Sure. SPRINGER:I€d like to invite the, we have seven people who signed up. We have seats at the table for five. So if the first five of you could come forward. I have Mr., or I have Kyle Soares, Bob Jacobson, Robert Graham, Wolfgang Morschl. Do we have enough seats for everybody, Norman? HAYASHI:Yes. SPRINGER:Dr.KurtSchulzandRobertTaylor.Ithinkthere€sroomfor everybody at the table. Mr. Jacobson, if we can begin with you, if you could please read your or give us your name and address for the record, and pass the microphone to your right; and we€ll begin testimony at the far end of the table. JACOBSON:Okay, I€m Councilman Bob Jacobson. My address is P.O. Box 900, Kurtistown. My actual physical address is 16-1672 Apeapea Road in Hawaiian Acres. MORSCHL:I€m Wolfgang Morschl. I live in the Discovery Harbor Subdivision. SPRINGER:Thank you. Do you have an address other than that? MORSCHL:Yes. P.O. Box 982, Naalehu, Hawaii. SPRINGER:Thank you. SOARES:Kyle Soares. My address is P.O. Box 778, Pahala, Hawaii. R. GRAHAM:Robert Graham. I live in Naalehu, Post Office Box 890. SPRINGER:Thank you. SCHULZ:I€m Dr. Kurt Schulz, and I reside at Discovery Harbor, Post Office Box 869. SPRINGER:Thank you, sir. 3 TAYLOR:I€m Robert Taylor with Taylor Built Construction Co., Inc., P.O. Box 149, Naalehu, Hawaii. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Taylor, we€ll begin testimony with you, please. TAYLOR:Okay. I€m in favor of this proposed usage as a quarry. We€ve been fighting in getting aggregates for years out in the Ka u district. We have to travel to Hilo and Kona. The price ends up being very expensive, the trucking, the wear and tear on the vehicle, the waste of fuel. The customers complain about how high the prices are based on Hilo and Kona. Lately, we€ve had a serious problem with availability. We€ve had to wait up to four weeks to get a load of concrete because of how busy Hilo and Kona is. And so, I, you know, it just seems to me we live in the biggest area, you know, on the island and the resources are there and it€s foolish not to be able to get them right in ourownarea.Sothat€swhereIstandonit. SPRINGER:Thankyou,Mr.Taylor.Commissioners,doyouhaveany questions for the testifier? Thank you. Dr. Schulz? SCHULZ:Yes. While I sympathize with Mr. Taylor€s business interest and the Applicant€s, and I€m not against per se against the project as such but as a physician concerned about health, mine and the public€s health, which I fought for about over 50 years in my life. As you could read up today in the big feature of the West Hawaii paper, I have a whole page on my background, in case you want to know who I am. So I have always been fighting for the interest of the public. So how can I not be here? It€s obvious. When you look at the map and you see where we live and the others, Mark Twain and Green Acres, you€ll see that this is direct in the path of the trade winds. We get the whole fallout, not only from, I€m not talking about dust because we get dust from the macadamia nut farms as well. All our, when our winds are out, everything€s covered with brown dust when they work their fields, the macadamia nut farms. But this is a matter entirely different. I€m talking about the asphalt, primarily, carcinogenic as it is; and there€s no doubt about it. I am very familiar with toxicology; and, as such, that is all I have to say concerning just this little bit that I€ve said. I don€t need to say anymore. Thank you. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, any questions for Dr. Schulz? Commissioner Graham? B. GRAHAM:Dr. Schulz, you€re concerned about the health effects being down- wind from this. Do you have any suggestions as to anything that this Applicant could do if he would operate a quarry, but in a responsible way, so that it would diminish any kind of health problems that would come your direction? SCHULZ:On such a short distance, I cannot see, I mean, any possibilities of getting around this pollution. I cannot, it€s too close. It€s a couple of miles. 4 B. GRAHAM:What€s the vegetation like between the quarry and your place? SCHULZ:Just brush. B. GRAHAM:Low brush? SCHULZ:Yes, what you callit the Christmas berries, in between us. B. GRAHAM:Okay. Thank you. SPRINGER:Thank you, sir. Mr. Graham? R. GRAHAM:Thank you. I moved to Ka u approximately in 1993 and I didn€t envision a quarry in my back yard. We have a problem with stagnant air sometimes that ithitsusdowntherewithoutthewinds.AsyouknowKa uisknownastheareaofthe makanis that has the wind. This is something like two miles from our house that would directly, I can look down over to this to the left and it would be blowing right into my front deck. Also, there€s a health factor along with the noise factor. Along with the fact here that also my grandfather in California was a homesteader before that had a lease on a quarry that he leased out as a quarry. He was upset at the fact at the time that there was quite a noise pollution, people moved into that area, and he had to have the thing shut down to these people. So I know only too well what a quarry will present. If there was a quarry to begin with in the area, I know I wouldn€t have moved there, along with a lot of other people. For one thing it€s an eyesore and it€s a detriment to people€s health. Thank you so much. SPRINGER:You€re welcome. Commissioners, any questions or comments? I have a question for you, Mr. Graham. R. GRAHAM:Sure. SPRINGER:It has been indicated in the Background Report that there was a quarry operating here previously. Were you aware of that at all when -? R. GRAHAM:It wasn€t in operation at the time when I€ve been there. I don€t know how long back -. SPRINGER:I think 1992 is what our Background Report says. R. GRAHAM:I came in 1993 to this place, since I -. SPRINGER:Thank you, sir. R. GRAHAM:Thank you. SPRINGER:Mr. Soares? 5 SOARES:Good afternoon, Commission members. In light of, he was just mentioning in regards to the past activity as a quarry there. We€re looking at the permit that was issued in 1972. It€s 32 years ago, expired in 1992. I know Mr. Ishimaru quite well. I live in the district of Ka u, I bought cattle from him, I€ve been on his land. And unless I€m blind and ignorant, I didn€t notice any type of quarry, type of facility. Environmental impacts within this area, from a practice like this, in 2004 and tomorrow, is not comparable to the past. I think my eyes in front of the head isto look forward and not to look back. I€m kind of curious and concerned of the fact that in the beginning and at the outset of this that the Planning Director has already givenhis approval for this, provided us with due process. In looking at that map there, Mr. Yuen, if you could kind of tell me in 1972 in comparisonwhenitwasfirstissuedto2004wherewearenowpresentlydiscussingthis? My family also owns 110 acres probably within the same amount of distance between his quarry, potential quarry site and the highway. So I€m about 3,500 feet, 4,000 feet away from that. We have one residence there. We have just acquired 91acres there, which is agriculture. And Ag is our bag, and that€s what we€re going to do. But I€m concerned that in the beginning process of this meeting announcing by this gentleman here that it has been recommended to be approved by the Planning Director. So I€m looking at what has been presented to us, we have a permit started in 1972, knowing the current populace of homes and proposed homes that are going up now are in the area, understanding some of the acquisitional transitions of Discovery Harbor by Hawaiian Homes, and the target by developers and contractors to prey off of the opportunity in the district of Ka u, which is the largest district in the State of Hawaii. So in looking at this proposal, I€m a we‚ kind of guy. I know Mr. Ishimaru, he has a predominant role in the district of Ka u, he has played in the past. But I don€t think that this is a proposal that should be passed or should be considered in an area of two sizes of Oahu, is the district of Ka u. And we€re going to put a quarry in 2004, or 05 we€re coming around to, basing on our knowledge on the facts of 1972. And already we have a recommendation of approval, I find that astounding beyond belief. And a lot of times, with all due respect to you folks€ role, your expertise and your knowledge, I€m not here to be your friend. I€m here to base everything I decide on on the facts, and the facts only. And that quarry, as you can see where the red dot is sitting is adjacent to Green Sands. You got an Ag-1 area down below which is 500 acres. We€re building 500 one-acre lots, another 3,500 feet Kona of that. All the prevailing winds will constantly blow all of that stuff. When I hear the word quarry,‚ I get a little nervous because I grew up in Honolulu, watched East Hawaii get ruined, watched Kapaa Quarry turn into Shay Stadium. If we care anything about our environment in a fundamental, basic moralistic way, we need to take ten steps back before we take even one forward on this kind of stuff. Because like Bob said, and I sympathize with what he said, I don€t mind paying the extra money. I got 6 20 miles of roads on my ranch. I got 2,500 acres. I€ll pay the extra money for concrete. That€s why I moved to Ka u from Hawaii Kai. They had a man named Henry J. Kaiser. They talk about him being a genius. The man is like, to him -. You know, so when we start to look at this kind of proposal, the main need for it is it€s not so much as finding it as filling it. We€re looking for developments to take these materials and we utilizing them more. The Hawaiian Homes bought 84 lots in Discovery Harbor, they€re going to build homes there. They€re going to need concrete for their foundations, they€re going to need gravel for underneath the foundations. I need stuff for my house, which I€m working on right now. I got roads that I€m working on right now. I work with Soil Conservation, Farm Service Agency, these other avenues. I€m a member of the Rural Community Development. But in 2004, going into 2005, this present quarry, if the quarry is down at the bottom tip ofSouthPointRoad,Imightconsiderit.Butwhereit€ssittinghererightnowisa concern to me, and we all have nothing to gain by having it being there because it€s an adverse impact on my neighbors and the people of Ka u. And, you know, it€s an agricultural area. You know, I€m a person that likes to perpetuate agriculture. Both the County and the State have an obligation to perpetuate agriculture. The matters that are received from the County continuously has an attack on agricultural lands to rezone for some odd reason. I understand some of the bigger pictures with the retirement funds and all these things, that you need to put our County share of our monies, that they have to go in that. So, gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, looking at how can we derive revenues so that we can meet these demands, I would think that these kinds of projects are conclusive to our current in 2004 and tomorrow, this quarry should not be here. And this is going to be headlines because it is indeed a health problem. And when we start talking about drilling, we€re talking about Naalehu School with trucks running with 40 tons, 30 tons, something goes wrong, the kids are crossing the street and they get killed. Then how are we going to feel if we let something like this go? From coming out of Tommy€s pasture, coming, heading towards Pahala, you€re looking and approaching one hazardous area on the highway already. And I€m interested to find out what the State Department of Transportation€s input, input is going to be on this. Because I think it should go to Land Use Commission, to the State level. We€re talking about environmental impact statements, current environmental impact statements, not based on 1972, not based on 1992. We€re talking about today, what problems could this proposal be at the current time, not when the first similar use a permit was acquired in 1972. I was only 10 years old then. But I thank you for your time in letting me testify. I ask for your patience in having a small part of your brain to have a room of understanding of where I€m coming from. Ag is my bag. The district of Ka u has been an agricultural area. And this kind of stuff being put in agricultural areas under the State Agricultural Land Use District is not appropriate at all. So I thank you again for your time very much. 7 SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Soares. Commissioners, you have any questions for the testifier? Mr. Planning Director, I have a question for you following Mr. Soares€ comments. We have a May 25, 2004 letter from the State Land Use Commission Executive Officer, Anthony Ching, and he poses some questions. Among them, what is the status of the 25 acres that was abandoned in 1992, and how does, as Mr. Soares queried, the site of the quarry that functioned for those 20 years before the population became as dense there as it is now, how did that factor into your recommendation, for changes in population density, for example? YUEN:Well, the Discovery Harbor Subdivision was there during the period of time of this previous quarry operation. There are certainly more homes in Discovery Harbor than there were -. I have to say that Discovery Harbor did not play a great role in our thoughts about this application being a good two miles distant. So, frankly, Discovery Harbor is quite a ways away from this quarry site. SPRINGER:I mean, Mr. Yuen, also, on that transmittal, there€s a question as to whetherallthetemporarysupportfacilitiesandequipmentweremovedfromtheareaand the land graded to blend in the surrounding area as required. YUEN:That I don€t know. SPRINGER:Okay. So I€ll ask that of the Applicant€s representative. YUEN:Yes. SPRINGER:Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Soares. SOARES:Could I address a small bit of -. In your asking about returning the land to similar terrains and stuff, so do we have a protocol for these kinds of practices for anybody to inspect whether or not they€re following up on those kinds of recommendations? Do you folks have a protocol like that? From the County to follow up, you having a terracing system for water, you know, runoff and stuff like that, you know, the quarry areas that were abandoned or in the future? SPRINGER:Yeah, the query that I was citing came from Tony Ching of the Land Use Commission, and the letter was addressed to Mr. Yuen . SOARES:In other words -. SPRINGER:And that was per condition of the previous application permit. SOARES:Okay, so he€s, the gentleman from the State Land Use Commission inquiry asking whether or not terracing has been done and returning the land to its natural state, you don€t know if that has been done, correct, Mr. Yuen? YUEN:I don€t know. Norman, do we have any information that? 8 HAYASHI:We did receive a response from Mr. Fuke regarding that particular question. And according to his letter, that€s also part of the exhibit, part of the packet that was handed out to you; it did state that all of the equipment has been removed and the land has been graded. SOARES:So that should be public record that there€s some kind of documentation that that occurred and the inspection of -? HAYASHI:Well, this is the letter that we received as part of this record, so that is documentation to that effect. SOARES:And that€s from Mr. Fuke? HAYASHI:That€scorrect. SOARES:AndMr.FukeistheplannerfortheApplicant? HAYASHI:That€stheplanningconsultant,he€stheplanningconsultantfor Mr. Ishimaru. SOARES:For the Applicant. What I€m saying is the County records attributes to the fact that that was done? That should be public record. It should be on file, if you have a file that says that -. HAYASHI:If there is such a letter in the previous record, then it should be in file. Whether there is or not, I€m not sure. SPRINGER:Yeah, Mr. Soares, the letter is dated June 21, 2004; and it€s part of the record of this hearing. SOARES:Okay. Terrific. Thank you. SPRINGER:You€re welcome. Commissioners? Okay. Mr. Morschl? MORSCHL:Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this. I€m somewhat of a new person out here at this. I picked up the Good News of Ka u and that€s where I read this. I got here a little bit late. I didn€t see the newspapers, I didn€t particularly see the newspaper carry this. That was a concern. I€m sure it was and it may have been my oversight, but living in Discovery Harbor, one of the things that€s a selling point out here is the good air, for everyone that lives out there, to the point where people who have problems come there, okay, with asthma or with various types of allergies to get away from air that€s well worse, possibly in Hilo, or a little bit worse in Kona. I don€t think, I think once you mess with that, or once you disturb that, it€s pretty hard to reverse it. You know, if you€re going to put this thing in here that€s going to put clouds of dust in the air, if you going to put chemicals, and put other things in the air, unless somebody is aware 9 that, gee, Discovery Harbor is two miles down the road, they couldn€t possibly have a problem with this. I don€t know, has anybody taken any test samples two miles down the road to see what it looked like, if it€s within environmental limits? Is there an environmental study that details this, the toxicology of this thing, and what it can cause? Or how about the cattle that graze closer to this particular environment, are they affected? You know, I don€t know what type of equipment he plans on putting in there. Cause I haven€t, this is the first one of these that I€ve been to, so I don€t know if he even discussed that with you folks, if they use scrubbers. Okay? They claim things are being gouged out rather than being put in the air. Again, I don€t know, that€s why I€m asking. Hopefully, the next time I€m going to be a little more prepared than I am right now, but it€s -. Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, being down wind from something that is continually producing bad air in pure air or whatever, eventually can lead to harm, unless there are a lot of steps taken to prevent that. And what I€m hopeful for is that you folks askforthosestepstobetakenbeforeyouvoteonthistomakesurethatthepeoplethat are living down there, which are increasing by quite a bit, we€ve got about 17 homes under construction right now. And that€s, it€s going up, every month, there€s new building going on; and that€s just in our subdivision. And with Hawaiian Home Lands building out there, it€s going to be even a greater population problem. Okay? There€s going to be increase in traffic, there€s no doubt about it. In putting these huge trucks in there, moving matter around in there is going to make a larger problem, not a smaller one. Thank you. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Morschl. Are there any questions from the Commissioners for the testifier? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:I guess maybe a question I just thought after the Planning Commission€s prior, excuse me, the Planning Director€s prior comment about the two miles and all that, I think somebody who does not know the area well, like myself, two miles sounds like a long ways. However, you know, I€m impressed that you guys came a long ways to talk about this. So you€re not going to be coming a long ways if there€s nothing there, that€s, announced anything -. The only thing I can think of in a comparable thing is like up where I live like in Waimea where there€s a whole concrete plant there, the West Hawaii Concrete, and I would guess that€s roughly about two miles upwind from the road that runs from Waimea to Kona on the mauka side. And, you know, I can see some good plumes coming from that West Hawaii Concrete, but I can€t say I really felt the effects of it all out on the highway. So I don€t have any concluding sense to what I€m saying here. I€m just sort of trying to bring up these issues as I see them and maybe if somebody does know the area real well we€d be looking at that, kind of like that, just for your consideration. Thank you. SPRINGER:Mr. Morschl? MORSCHL:May I respond? The grade that it€s on, you can see that the quarry that they€re going to build, you can see that from our subdivision because it€s all downhill. Whatever plumes come up, whatever dust comes up, we€re going to get 10 because that€s where the trades work. The only time we€re not going to get it is if we have Kona winds come in. GRAHAM:Who€s downhill ofwho? MORSCHL:Pardon me? GRAHAM:You€re downhill of the quarry or the quarry is downhill of you? MORSCHL:We are down wind, down wind of the quarry. The wind blows up ƒ GRAHAM:Oh, I thought you said downhill, I€m sorry. PUBLIC:Anddownhill. MORSCHL:Anddownhill.We€reactuallyatahigherelevationthanthe quarry is. GRAHAM:I see. And straight down wind from the quarry. MORSCHL:Right. We have this other, you know, Green Sands which is going to be right next to it. So is Mark Twain. And they€re both going through growing spurts right now. And, unfortunately, we€ve talked to those folks there and some of them had difficulty, they had no knowledge of this, you know. When we get back, we€re going to make them aware of what€s going on. We will. SPRINGER:And, Mr. Morschl, when the Applicant€s representative comes back to the table, we€ll have an opportunity to discuss some of the concerns that both yourself and the other testifiers have raised. Thank you. MORSCHL:Thank you. SPRINGER:You€re welcome. Mr. Jacobson? JACOBSON:Thank you all for allowing me this time right here. I€m not trying to simply tell you what to do. And I€m real glad I was able to speak last because I think all the gentlemen at the table here have said very truthful items. I think that each of them had their own good points starting with Bob Taylor. There€s a real need for aggregate and cement mix out there that I don€t think anybody can deny. But as with what some of the other gentlemen have said that things have changed a lot since 1972 -. In fact, for my own satisfaction I was doing some research last week, before I knew this was coming forward, from American Cancer Society. They recently released a study that cited through other studies of cement plants around the world where they had studies, longitudinal ones that covered a great long time. They studied 11 children€s development and the effects on children in relationship to cement plants and rock-crushing plants. And you think, oh, okay, well, the natural things, you don€t see big clouds of junk blowing to people, that the problem was there€s particles causing some problems for these kids. And the result of those three separate studies show that kids who live within three miles of these plants had a higher, much higher rate of lung cancer. Because this is pesticide particles, they€re small, you can€t see them, they€re almost microscopic in nature. They€re so small that if you, the whole room is filled with them you probably wouldn€t be able to see them because they€re really very small. There€d have to be a huge concentration to be visible; and these are the things that are getting to the small areas of the lungs. And I€m speaking on my expertise as a registered nurse. I worked on restorative/intensive care treatment to Mayo Clinic, I had to handle a lot of people with lung disease and asbestosis, silicosis, a lot of people would come with long- term damage. So it slowly accreted in their lungs, and nobody knew where they necessarily got it from, until maybe 30 years later they€re sick and asked in the last 30 yearsdoyouknowwhereyoulived. Well,therearestudies,andthat€swhythey€rereallylandmarkedstudiesintermsofthe cement plants and rock-crushing plants, is because nobody has ever really had the chance to do this type of study. It takes 20-30 years to get this kind of information out. And they€ve just been released. I was reading a American Society cite that these particles are a side effect of these rock-crushing and cement-type plants, that they€re real, it suggests, certified. Back in €72, nobody had any idea about this. Some people were starting to get some ideas that maybe we should study it. But these studies didn€t get started until the late 80s. So, it already indicates damage that you get from this. I feel that this location is very bad. We certainly do need a cement plant, we need to have access for gravel. There€s going to be growth there whether people like it, whether I like it or not. And to accommodate that we certainly will be seeing some sort of cement and rock-crushing plant out there. It€s a matter of where. I think in that site it€s just asking for trouble. As an elected representative, I have to go back to the Constitution and look at the charters that I have to take care of the health and welfare of the people of Hawaii. I think that given what we know now and given the location of this plant, this is an ill-considered move, in my opinion. And I think that what you might want to do before we move any further forward with this is to ask the, if you€re going to pass this, ask for a public hearing in Ka u so those people who are immediately impacted can have some comment on it. Because I had three phone calls this morning from people who didn€t know much about this. I have to say I€m really ill-prepared for this. I did not get the chance to read the report on it. I€m just relying on information I€ve gotten from other sources about rock- crushing. I just luckily happened to come into it. I didn€t even research it for this reason. I just care about people€s lungs and their health; and it€s just a professional component of my life so I couldn€t ignore that. I don€t know, also, given this and since I didn€t read the report, I don€t know what the archaeology of the area is. It does deeply concern me, cause this is one of the most deeply, thickly populated areas of the island, pre-contact. So there€s a lot of stuff in there. Perhaps that has been taken care of, but I really hope that if it€s not in this report, 12 and I will get a chance to read it after this meeting, I hope that they have considered this, cause it€s of major, major importance. And it€s going to take on a greater importance in the future in where we handle native burials and the archaeology, because we don€t want to destroy the value of area. Part of the value of the area is that there€s something really intact, there€s something really good. And I don€t think that the people that have been moving here really have a concept of what they€re living into or what they see. People who have been living here their whole lives, they have a long history, clearly have an idea of what€s there and have a great deal of respect for it. But I think people moving in need to raise their conscientiousness so we know what they have before we lose it. And I just do appreciate your time. Has there been a TIAR done on this at all? And Sidney can answer that later, I don€t need answers from you right away. YUEN:No.Butthere€sanestimatethereofaboutfivetrucksadaythat use the site. JACOBSON:So it€s not substantial. And if there€s current archaeological work on the area, that€d be good, too. I think that€s about all I have for now. I have to put something in writing, but I appreciate your time. Thank you all. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, are there any questions for Mr. Jacobson? Mr. Smith? SMITH:Yes, I have a question. In your statement you said the concrete plant, sorry, cement plant or aggregates. Is that correct, using what is out there -? JACOBSON:It says cement plants and rock-crushing. Things that handle these types of rock tend to generate asbestos-like particles. So asbestos can come, it€s not asbestos per se but just tiny little particles are like asbestos. It can come from rock- crushing and handling in the cement preparation. SMITH:I don€t understand your statement. That study that you said, is it a cement plant or concrete batching plant, crushing? I think concrete batching and a cement plant, I think, is two different animals. That€s why I€m trying to understand -. JACOBSON:Well, a lot of these things are happening in all the same locations, that€s why some of the studies show that -. SMITH:I don€t think so. Concrete, cement is made in a different way. I don€t think they make cement there. JACOBSON:Well, see, rock-crushing does produce this, same things as does cement batching and cement mixing plants. All those things will produce these fibers. SMITH:Perhaps if we have a hard copy of the study -. 13 JACOBSON:I€ll try and hunt it out. I was actually, I was looking for it this morning and I€ll try to -. I found it off an American Cancer Societysite, and we€ll try to give -. SMITH:Well, it gets me quite confused because cement and concrete aggregates are two different animals. So I need to have that clarified. JACOBSON:I€ll do what I can to produce that study. SMITH:Thank you. JACOBSON:I regret I don€t have it today. SPRINGER:Thankyou.Mr.Jacobson,youtalkabouttheneedofsuchlanduse in the district of Ka u. Do you haveany alternative sites in mind? JACOBSON:Well, hopefully, it€ll be at some distance from populated areas. I would not want to put it in an area where we having more subdivisions, or much less where subdivisions currently exist. There€s a bit of open space. I€m not going to try and tell you where they have to have it. The landowners may -. But I think at least five to six miles away from anybody, because these small particles tend to migrate very easily and nobody knows what they€re like. Hopefully, they would be down wind from where large concentrations of people are, because the wind is very prevalent in Ka u. It just never stops. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. That opinion that you€re holding about the distance is based on this American Cancer Society report? JACOBSON:Yeah, that was new to me. I only recently read this. I had no idea it was that kind of distances that were involved; and it shocked me. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, any questions for the testifier? JACOBSON:And I will try to provide the report that I read to the Commissioners. I think that€s a perfectly reasonable request. SPRINGER:Thank you. Dr. Schulz, are you, would you like to make a comment? SCHULZ:I would like to add to Mr. Jacobson, what he said about the asbestos. There are studies available, but we€re not aware of this type of rock. I have no idea of what kind of rock you€re talking about here in this quarry. But definitely what you€re saying is correct. There are studies from, as far as asbestos related to rock- crushing, there are studies available. 14 SPRINGER:Thank you for -. SCHULZ:In addition to the cancer causing situation there, I mean, I thought we didn€t have to discuss that matter. It€s common knowledge that asphalt or tar trucks are carcinogenic, everybody knows that. So we don€t have to doubt that at all. And this is the main thing, not so much the rock crushing but the asphalt using, unless they have certain measurements that would cut down like, what they call it, washers or whatever the, from the exhaust from the black smoke that comes up. I€m not familiar with the technology thing. And, so, as a former director of a cancer clinic, I can assure you that this is impossible what we€re talking about. You would have a tremendous impact of the public if this comes about. None of us knew anything about this till yesterday, most of us. So we€re not prepared actually to come here. We just, yesterday, we saw by accident in this calendar,andIdrummedupourresidentsoftheassociationhere.AndMr.Morschlsaid, hey, what€s going on? So we are the only ones that in a hurry could come here. It should have been put out to the large public, and you would have seen how many people would have been here. SPRINGER:Yes, there is notification that occurs in the public newspapers about the -. SCHULZ:In the newspapers? SPRINGER:Yes, about the Hawaii County Planning Commission meetings on a regular basis. But we understand your concern that has been reiterated by many of you, that there was an issue of notification and there may have been more people here otherwise. I think if the Commissioners have no questions to the testifiers seated here, if the Applicant€s representative can go back to the table, we€ll have a chance to discuss their response to some of those concerns. What -. MORSCHL:I have some -. SPRINGER:I€m sorry, we need to have some order here. Those people who have signed up to testify are those who have been recognized now. And, Mr. Morschl, if you have one brief comment -. MORSCHL:Is there a way to get a copy of the report that you folks have so we have the same education -? SPRINGER:Is that possible, Norman? HAYASHI:Sure. MORSCHL:Thank you so much. 15 SPRINGER:You€re welcome, thank you. Thank you, testifiers all. Mr. Taylor, do you have -? TAYLOR:Yeah, I wanted to add a couple of quick things. The trucks that everybody is talking about that would be leaving the area, those trucks arenow coming into the area and they€re coming longer distances through hazardousroads. So as far as that impact goes, I don€t think it€ll be any different. The type of rock they€re talking about being crushed is being crushed on a daily basis in Discovery Harbor as all those lots are being cleared and prepared for homes. So everybody is getting a good taste of that rock on a regular basis right now, anyway, because that€s development; and, you know, that is there. And I live in the Mark Twain Estates Subdivision, and our air comes from that area. And down wind we have Naalehu Dairy, we have the volcano, we have quite a bit of stuff that comes; and the air seems to stay pretty clean. And, so, anyway, I just wanted to add that those impacts are all on a regular basis. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Taylor. TAYLOR:Thank you. SPRINGER:You€re welcome. Mr. Fuke, if -? FUKE:If I can ask Mr. Harlan to testify. SPRINGER:You haven€t signed up so you were not on my list, as we indicated at the desk here; and if you can just come on up, we can take your name for the record. HARLAN:You want me to sign? SPRINGER:Yes. Right there. HARLAN:Okay. SPRINGER:Then we€ll have a clear record of your name. HARLAN:All right. SPRINGERCan you raise your right hand, please. Do you swear to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? HARLAN:I do. SPRINGER:Thank you. Can you please give your name and your address into the record? HARLAN:My name is Charles Harlan; and my address is P.O. Box 4088, Kailua-Kona 96745. 16 SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Harlan. You may begin your testimony now. HARLAN:Okay. All I wanted to say is if you look outside right now, within probably three-quarters of a mile here there€s two asphalt plants and probably three crushers going on right now on Railroad Avenue. And there€s 100,000 people here, and I don€t think crushing brings up asbestos anyway in for your lungs. Asbestos comes from other material, it doesn€t come from blue rock, not that I know of, anyway; and I€ve been around it for a long, long, long time, and there€s many people being around aggregates for a long time. And I just think it€s a good idea to have it, have a source down there to eliminate the transportation and make the public, that will have a lot cheaper product instead of paying coming from Hilo or Kona. I mean, cause people are moving down there because there€snootherplacetomoveto,andthelandisaffordable;andIthinkitwouldbeabig benefit. And actually if you walk outside right now, you can walk almost all the way to Railroad Avenue and you can€t hear a crusher run. So this noise thing, you know, it€s not going to create what these people think it€s going to create. Cause in Kailua-Kona, right across from the harbor, there€s two crushing operations right below the school, I mean, within a half a mile of the school, which I don€t know, I€m pretty sure you guys are aware of that, and it does not affect. I mean, it does not affect the kids at school. I don€t see them falling over. That€s all I have. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Harlan. I think the comment was they were asbestos-like, the testimony was not that asbestos was generated but that they were asbestos-like particles, so -. HARLAN:Yeah, I don€t even think in concrete, cause concrete is not made here. It€s made in, it€s, it used to be made in Oahu, they don€t even make it in Oahu anymore. They€re make it someplace, ship it to Oahu and it€s shipped over here in bulk. When you buy concrete you buy it, it€s not made in the United States even. SPRINGER:Thank you. Thank you for filling out the form. Commissioners, are there any questions of Mr. Harlan? Thank you, sir. Mr. Fuke, there were a number of issues raised and I€m wondering if you€re prepared to address them. FUKE:Well, I€ll address them, but whether in your eyes or the public comment€s side, whether they€ve been complete become another matter. First, in terms of the compliance with the Land Use Commission€s condition, as the staff had indicated, I did provide a letter. I think maybe it was too late to be included in part of your packet, and I apologize for that. But the equipment, with the exception of the water tanks, were removed; and the water tank actually has some multiple purpose because Mr. Ishimaru has some agricultural activities in the lower side which he uses on a part-time, you know, he uses his tanks on an as-needed basis to provide added irrigation for his agricultural crops in that area. 17 I think that as the testifiers have indicated, whether you like it or not, I think, you know, like the Ka u area is growing like the rest of theisland. Some of us have some misgivings over the rate of growth. But, nonetheless, you know, this is, what he€s proposing is a kind of use that does, not necessarily would be directly growth induced as much as more growth accommodation. Because you have like many of those substandard lots in that area or you have lots of already existing subdivided lots in the area, you know, it€s easier for people to just buy a lot and then move into that area, whether it€s those 11,000 one-acre sized lots at Hawaiian Ocean View, or there€s thousands of other lots in Discovery Harbor in the Green Sands Subdivision and the other areas. For newly or unsubdivided properties it becomes increasingly difficult to get further subdivision because of the water limitation and perhaps like zoning questions. I think that a couple of the other testifiers noted, and particularly this gentleman and Mr. Taylor, have indicated like, you know, they are in the business of providing material and,youknow,tothecommunityand,ofcourse,nothavingthelatestsourceofmaterial there provide some, you know, added cost to that. And it€s not so much the material cost as much as it is transportation cost, transportation cost not only to the actual consumer, but perhaps like the general public. Because they€re going to have to utilize roadways that are public, you know, whether the material comes in from Hilo, or from the Kona side, or Kawaihae, or the South Kohala area. So I think there is clearly a demand. People talked about whether, you know, there are alternatives. Perhaps there are alternatives. I think we must be mindful of the fact that for the most part when we do have a quarry, it becomes very resource-based, you know, resource-oriented. It€s not, like certain agricultural use you can have only certain areas that would grow certain types of crop. Likewise with the quarry, you€re looking for material. So it€s not like, you know, you can go up to, for example, like where he has to farm, proposes his project and expect to have like a quarry operation over there. You know, it€s pretty much like resource based. Because this area was formerly used as a quarry, the material is already proven that there is that resource in that area. This is not to say that there would not be any impacts, you know, to the surrounding area, whether it€s environmental or otherwise. I think that because there is always the potential for impacts, you do have appropriate regulations that the developer must comply with, or the operator must comply with, prior to and also during the operations of the quarry. There are, like the machines will have to be certified, you have to get like your air quality permit. There€s also like noise regulations, dust control measures that would have to be constantly monitored. Your staff€s proposed conditions also provide some added mitigation relative to how you address the dust control measures. The other points that were brought up, I think one of which was answered by the Planning Director in terms of like the traffic, they actually read, projected, the Applicant projects maybe like five, maybe at the most, like six or seven types of round trip of activity, you know, depending on the volume of demand that they may have in that area. 18 In terms of the archaeological aspects, I had submitted a statement from former Professor William Bonk who did the survey of that area which was then subsequently accepted and further confirmed by, today, by the State Historic Preservation Office as being no historic properties being affected. No additional archaeological study was done since the study that was done by Professor Bonk. The size of the quarry, contrary to what has being alluded to, is not really, you know, although the request is for like 12 acres, the 12 acres is really intended to be an area that you would need to provide all of the functions if, you know, as requested, you know, like quarry material doing your crushing, doing your concrete batching plant and doing your asphalt treating area. But the so-called the whole‚ in my mind would not, you know, approximate like 12 acres but the area that you€re going to utilize possibly would be around that in size. It certainly would not be the size of the quarry that, the quarry pit you see right now here in Hilo in the industrial area. I would like to kind of suggest, you know, as added mitigation -. I know that the doctor mentionedsomethingaboutliketheasphaltplantandthenthatmaybe,mayhavesome carcinogenic relationship. Well, I€m not a doctor, I don€t profess to even have some elementary knowledge of medicine or toxicology. But if the asphalt plant is of concern, the Applicant is willing to delete that portion, you know, from the scope of the application. I note also that the Land Use Commission when it approved the permit and then subsequently granted amendments, the Commission, the Land Use Commission did require an additional condition and I€d like to read this. It reads that, If it is determined that adverse effects such as noise, dust or indiscriminate excavation is taking place, the Planning Commission shall have the authority to require the Applicant to cease and desist the quarry operation.‚ If that is the kind of condition that the Commission would wish to have as an added condition to further address the kind of potential concerns that the public may, you know, may have raised, the public has raised, the Applicant would have no objections to such a condition. I think that€s pretty much all. I mean, if there are other questions -. SPRINGER:Mr. Fuke, could you repeat for me what you were willing to withdraw? FUKE:The asphalt batching plant. The crushing operation and the concrete batching plant are very essential components of the project and, of course, they are related to the quarry. SPRINGER:Thank you. Mr. Director, can you respond for our benefit to Mr. Fuke€s willingness to add that condition and withdraw the asphalt batching? YUEN:Well, I have no problem with the condition on adverse impact. The asphalt batching is not something that the Department is asking be withdrawn. What 19 I though what might be useful, could you give us a very graphic description of whata concrete batching plant and an asphalt,and I think it was asking for an asphalt concrete batching plant. What are both of those are in as simple terms as possible? FUKE:Madam Chair, if I could just step back and request Mr. Harlan. Mr. Harlan is very conversant in that area and I€d like to defer that question. He was the gentleman who was just over here. SPRINGER:Yes. Mr. Harlan, if you could come forward and help us out. HARLAN:Okay. What was the question? YUEN:What exactly happens in a concrete batching plant such as Mr. Ishimaru is proposing? HARLAN:Okay. A concrete batching plant is a, for that size of area, would probablywarrantatwo-truckoperation;andit€stwobinsandasilo.Andyoudumpsand in one bin, you dump the aggregate in the other bin, and your silo, holds your concrete. You back your truck up underneath it and it drops in your truck. You add the water, spins around and you€re gone with your mud. YUEN:Okay. So it€s simply where they mix the concrete -? HARLAN:It mixes the concrete, it would fit within this room. YUEN:But it€s simply where you mix cement, sand, gravel and water? HARLAN:What it is is three different departments, I mean, compartments that hold the stuff that you put a little bit of this in, a little bit of that in, a little bit of this in into your truck, add the water and go. It€s a holding, it€s a separator, basically. YUEN:Okay. And then an asphalt batching plant? HARLAN:An asphalt batching plant basically -. YUEN:An asphalt concrete batching plant as proposed here, yeah. HARLAN:Well, okay, that€s a concrete plant what we just talked about. YUEN:Yes, all right. HARLAN:Now, then there€s an asphalt plant. YUEN:All right. HARLAN:It is not a concrete asphalt plant, it€s just an asphalt plant. 20 YUEN:Okay. Well, our application called it an asphalt concrete batching plant. HARLAN:Right. Well, it wasn€t exactly, the wording wasn€texactly right. YUEN:All right. Okay. Explain that. HARLAN:An asphalt plant is similar to the same thing. It has got three bins to it and a burner. But to do asphalt, it would be maybe once or twice a year at the very most because you just wouldn€t fire up an asphalt plant unless there was a job warrant big enough to do it. YUEN:Is it different? Is it much different? You see these ready-mix trucks,odd-mixtrucksontheroadwherethere-. HARLAN:Okay.Yeah,wehaveoneofthosenowthatmix,thatsitsonthe truck now that mixes the concrete fresh right on the job, which is the same thing. You got half the truck hold sand, the other half holds rock and you got a water tank up front to hold the water and you have a small compartment to hold the cement. And the cement is powder, what it is, and it mixes it together. It€s the same thing as a concrete batch plant but it€s sitting on the truck. YUEN:No, what I mean with asphalt. You see these, I don€t know what you call them but I think that you got those hot-mix machines. I mean, when the State€s doing it, they€re doing an asphalt job on the road and they€re laying asphalt -. HARLAN:Well, that€s the lay-down machine. YUEN:Okay. HARLAN:Yeah, that€s not what we -. YUEN:Okay. And then the asphalt plant melts -. HARLAN:It heats, what the asphalt plant does, it heats the oil up that sticks to the rock that makes, and you put the sand and the rock in the oil and it goes through a heater. It heats it up so it becomes hot so it adheres together, kind of like making a cake or something. You know, you put a little flour in, I mean, a little shortening in to kind of hold everything together; and that€s what that plant does. YUEN:Okay. Thanks. HARLAN:And right on Railroad Avenue, there€s three asphalt plants. And there€s like, I think, three concrete plants and three crushers sitting within like a mile of where we are right now. 21 YUEN:Okay, thank you. FUKE:So like how do you transport that asphalt -? HARLAN:The asphalt gets transported in trucks that, like a dump truck or a semi-dump truck. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Harlan. Commissioners, do you have any questions for Mr. Harlan on crushing plants, concrete batching plant or asphalt plants? SMITH:Madam Chair? SPRINGER:Yes, Commissioner Smith? SMITH:Since we€ve got a knowledgeable person there, tell us the differencebetweenaconcreteplantandanaggregateplantoraconcrete-. HARLAN:Acrusher? SMITH:Yeah. HARLAN:Okay, the concrete plant, what that does is it mixes concrete. A crusher makes big rocks into small rocks. SMITH:A cement plant. HARLAN:Your daughter should know that. SMITH:A cement plant is what I€m trying to get at a definition out of -. HARLAN:I think she has worked around there. But a crusher takes, it€s like a squeezer, it takes something big and makes it small. SMITH:I understand that. I€m looking for a definition of a cement plant versus a concrete batching plant. HARLAN:Oh, well, I just, that€s what I -. FUKE:No, no, no. He€s asking what is a cement plant? YUEN:He€s asking about a cement manufacturing plant like -. HARLAN:Oh, I don€t know. I don€t make cement. They make it out of rock somehow. 22 SMITH:Okay. If I€m correct, no concrete, I mean, cement willbe manufactured at the site? HARLAN:Oh, no, no. I think it comes out of Hong Kong or -. SMITH:That€s what I€m worried about because -. HARLAN:Oh, no, they don€t even make it in Oahu anymore. SMITH:Cement is a different animal. It is very fine, and it can carry further than two miles. HARLAN:Yes, cement is a completely different animal. They used to make it in Portland or there used to be Portland Cement who used to make it and they used to bargeitovertoOahu.Theyevenstoppeddoingthat.ItcomesfromHongKongorsome place -. SMITH:Thank you very much. SPRINGER:Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for the question, Commissioner Smith. Is there anything else for Mr. Harlan? Thank you, sir. HARLAN:Thank you. SPRINGER:Question for Mr. Fuke. Commissioner Graham? B. GRAHAM:Mr. Fuke, I know one of your strong points in the community over the years has been going out with an outreach and kind of working with the community to find what the concerns are and how they can be helped or dealt with. In this case it seems like the benefits are, really, to the Ka u area, of not having to bring in high-priced concrete and all, but the detriments are also right in that area. So it seems like it€s a good place to try and have the community work it out since they€re the beneficiaries, as well as any who might suffer from adverse effects. Do you see any future in having some kind of public get-together down there to discuss this in Ka u? And if we put this off a month or something so that afterwards we could kind of find out how that went, or does that not seem too productive to you? FUKE:Well, consensus building is always productive. It€ll entail time. And to that extent, can I have one minute to discuss with the Applicant? SPRINGER:Members, why don€t we take a five-minute recess while Mr. Fuke confers with his -. SMITH:I have another question for Mr. Fuke. He probably could confer with his client, too. 23 SPRINGER:Okay. SMITH:Item 4, Quarrying activity shall be limited to the hours of 5 to 8 p.m.‚ I don€t think I can go along with that, too late. FUKE:The Applicant would have no objections to limiting it from 6 a.m. to 5 p.m. SMITH:Sounds good. SPRINGER:Five-minute recess. RECESSEDThe Chair called a short recess at 3:16 p.m. RECONVENEDThe meeting reconvened at 3:25 p.m. SPRINGER:I€d like to call the Hawaii County Planning Commission meeting back to order at this time. Mr. Fuke, you€ve had a chance to confer with your client as a follow-up to the comments made by Commissioner Graham. What say you? FUKE:Okay. Sure. What say you. Madam Chair, I discussed it with the Applicant and he believes that if the Planning Commission wants to share additional testimony then perhaps the Commission should kind of like conduct its own hearing. If you have your own, if you have another public hearing, probably, I think the type of testimony that you would hear or comments coming in would probably be generally no different than what was shared today, in a sense that you would have people making the same kind of concerns; and you would have others that maybe they€re saying that it€s needed because it would help reduce the cost of construction or whatever have you. And Ithink,youknow,youprobablywouldendupwherewearetodayandtheCommission would still have to make a decision. If you look at, you know, what the Director has proposed, what we have suggested as added mitigation, I don€t know what additional mitigation that can be offered with the exception of one other that I€d like to read. But over and beyond that, you know, if you€re looking at the deletion of the request to have the asphalt plant, limiting the hours of operation from 6 to 5, having the, including the clause that would allow the Planning Commission to conduct its own investigation and terminate, if there are, any legitimate complaints on the operation, which, I think to a large extent they would address the concerns raised by members of the community. And the other ones that we know that they€ll have to ascertain, Department of Health permits, issued relative to prior operation, also, and, also, during the operation of the activity, you know, relative to air quality standards, noise and related mitigation. I stumbled across another condition that the Land Use Commission had required when they approved the initial one, you know, and we would have no objection to having that condition, also, thrown into the mix and, if you agree, that the Applicant obtain the 24 required approvals from the State Department of Health priorto construction and operation of the facilities. So I think that although that may be redundant I think it provides like an added opportunity for the Commission to revoke the permit in the event none of these permits were secured and they just kind of operate, you know. Likewise, like howyou have, although it€s a requirement that you have a Plan Approval and, if they don€t do any Plan Approval and they start operating, well, by putting this condition in this Plan Approval requirement then it gives the Commission, I think, added leverage, or added authority to revoke the permit, you know. So I believe that when we put all of these things into consideration and whether there would be any added value behind having a public hearing be it conducted by the Applicant or by the Planning Commission, you know, still would be, I guess, questionable. SPRINGER:Mr.Graham,CommissionerGraham,doyouhaveanyfollow-up on that? B. GRAHAM:I can certainly understand the sensibility on that, that it€s very likely that it could go that way. On the other hand, I also feel like the permit condition, although it can be revoked if, you know, it has undesirable impacts on the neighbors is just also asking for difficulties. Because I can sure picture neighbors not liking the sounds, and maybe seeing some clouds blowing through the area and send in some pictures and say they want a hearing to revoke it. And, you know, it could kind of maintain an adversarial atmosphere. So I don€t know. And the other piece of information that I kind of was thinking was when we did go and look at the map there and I looked at how far that red dot is from those black lines which Norman informs me are Mark Twain, Green Sands, whatever, it is less than a mile. So it€s closer than the two miles we€re talking about. So I don€t want to -. It seems like a difficult situation. And I shouldn€t feel like I can tell the people who drive up here from there that, hey, you guys are worried about nothing, cause I don€t feel confident of that at all. But it certainly is a value to the community and it feels like Mr. Fuke is willing to make a lot of considerations to try to mitigate it. So that€s all I know. Thank you. SPRINGER:Any other discussion? Commissioner Alameda? ALAMEDA:A question for Mr. Fuke, if I may. Thank you. You mentioned about the monitoring of the dust control, the noise and the potential inadequate excavation. Who will be doing that monitoring? FUKE:The primary responsibility still would rest with the State Department of Health because that€s the State Department of Health permit. But, nonetheless, I would believe that since this is a Planning Commission, if the permit is issued, would be like a Planning Commission permit; and I think that the County would 25 also have the direct authority as well. I mean, but I would defer toboth the Planning Director and your legal counsel on that. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen? YUEN:If we got a dust complaint, we would sendit to the Department of Health because they have a specific regulation on dust control. Now, if they were cited for a violation then we would consider that to also be a violation of the Special Permit; and so we would look at and give a, well, we could also cite them. Once it€s determined there€s a violation under the Department of Health rule then we would also cite them for violation of the Special Permit. SPRINGER:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Thankyou.Onemorequestion.Inthereportitshowedthat, Mr. Fuke, that there was a previous quarry back then? FUKE:Correct. The initial quarry permit was issued back in 1972. And there were, you know, because it was like for a fixed period of time, then they went in for subsequent time extensions, and then the last one terminated in 1992. However, any active activity within that area, according to the Applicant, occurred in the late 1980s. ALAMEDA:In the 1980s? FUKE:Yeah. ALAMEDA:And the type of operation back then, was it the same proposed type of operation as now? FUKE:There€s the over added, well, the permit was for the same; but at that time all they had was just the quarrying and the rock-crushing operation. They did not have any concrete batching plant, which is what they€re proposing now. ALAMEDA:Thank you. SPRINGER:Any other questions from the Commissioners? I have a question, Mr. Fuke. With regard to noise and particulate matter traveling across the landscape, Mr. Harlan has described to us the circumstances here in Hilo. Is the topography sufficiently different out in Ka u that we can use conditions in Hilo to predict or anticipate behavior of noise and particulate matter out in Ka u? FUKE:Well, I€m not a noise expert so I won€t be able to comment on that. But just my reading of that is that it€s a function of like your, your wind pattern; and so, you know, we have the predominant trade wind over here so it kind of like moves into that, kind of like direction. And, likewise, the predominant trade pattern in this particular area would take it, you know, during the day, daytime will take it towards the Discovery 26 Harbor area, you know, would move from Hilo towards, I mean,you know, Hilo direction back towards like the Kona area. SPRINGER:And some would travel inthe same way that the particles do? FUKE:Correct. SPRINGER:Thank you. As in the previous matter,the Commissioners, we discussed our concerns and whether we felt positive or negative about the matter before us. And this is something that I€m having difficulty grappling with, is that given the lay of the land and the prevailing wind conditions, I€m having a hard time giving, feeling wholehearted approval at this time. But I am interested in hearing comments from the rest of you on your disposition at this time, or any other questions that you have either for the Applicant or theDirector. FUKE:Madam Chair, if I could just -. SPRINGER:Mr. Fuke. FUKE:Kind of like interject, and this is why like it gets back again to CommissionerGraham€squestionaboutlikehavingtheApplicantgooutand,youknow, do the public testimony. Because it€s like, maybe like, you know, you€re going on a field trip, you maybe have a greater level of sensitivity of the issue, unlike the Applicant conducting a meeting and then, you know, sharing that report with you. So -. SPRINGER:Thank you for that comment, Mr. Fuke, and your sensitivity. Commissioners? Commissioner Graham, I€m sorry, McCall. MCCALL:As a resident of Ka u, I do see the points. I think there€s always going to be the people who don€t, I mean, I€m not sure I would want to have this quarry, you know, right next to my farm, either; but it needs to go somewhere. There, perhaps, are areas of Ka u that could be far more isolated from residences. But, you know, Ka u, this could be outside Pahala, could be outside Naalehu, it could be, you know -. I think that a quarry is needed in Ka u. I mean, there are a number of scratch quarries that the plantation has made, you know. I mean, they€ve got probably a dozen at least in the area. Whether some of them may have been permitted, I think a lot of them probably weren€t. I guess my, you know, my general feeling probably the winds are more prevalent in Ka u than they are here in Hilo. There probably is more, I don€t know, I€m probably testifying here which I shouldn€t be doing; but I apologize for that. But, you know, it seems to me there may be more chance of dust from this going to the Green Sands Subdivision and Discovery Harbor. But we do, also, we have the Department of Health regulations that are supposed to be complied with. If this quarry does become a health hazard, residents do have the option of complaining to the Department of Health; and we would have the option of taking the permit away if that€s the case. 27 I do think that, you know, I do, again, think that Ka u really needsa good quarry. I think that what this is going to do is this is going to alleviate traffic problems. You€re not going to have concrete trucks coming from Hilo and concrete trucks coming from, you know, on the narrow road by Milolii and around there. I think this is going to, you know, produce less traffic. So I€m in favor of this application, as I see it, at this point, I think, with the provision that we, that, I don€t know, if we make a provision with the Department of Health having the option of citing them if there€s a problem, so -. SPRINGER:Thank you, Commissioner McCall. Other Commissioners? ALAMEDA:Sure. I can add -. SPRINGER:Commissioner Alameda? ALAMEDA:KindofmythoughtprocessasI€mbeginningtothinkaboutthis situation. I think, you know, in addition to the conditions that the Applicant will be making, not to mention other conditions like the removal of the asphalt and the time operation adjustments as well as the Department of Health kind of regulation, oversight, if you will, I€m feeling a little bit better about it and I have less reservations, if you will. So it€s kind of where I€m at. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioner Graham, do you have any comments, or Commissioner Smith? SMITH:No. I turn to my colleagues€ statement. SPRINGERThank you. Commissioner Graham? B. GRAHAM:I just, all I wanted to add, I know the trade winds are pretty steady down there and they€re often strong. I wish there was a way to sort of, say, you know, that you guys wouldn€t operate on certain days when the trades are really strong but, you know, in a place like that it€s real hard to muster that kind of stuff. You know, without the strong trade winds, I think the problem would be minimal, at worst. But the trade winds are there a lot so -. And looking at the Waimea plant and I look at the plume that comes from that, and if I€m thinking, you know, their closest places is less than half the distance to the highway, I can certainly envision the plume going that far certain days. That€s all. But maybe it€s pretty narrow at the end of that plume, I don€t quite know what it is. But just looking from coming over Saddle Road, you can see the plume and it€s blowing hard. Thanks. SPRINGER:So you continue to have reservations? GRAHAM:Well, I continue, yeah, I continue to have concerns with these folks came all the way up here about a problem, which I can see has some basis and substance. On the other hand, I don€t have a, you know, I€m not a, a middle kind of guy; but I don€t 28 have a strong thing like no way you guys are going to pass this over my head, youknow. I don€t have that attitude, either, so that€s all. SPRINGER:Okay. Thank you. Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Would it be out of order to ask a couple of questions of, I believe, Mr. Harlan, I believe it is? I don€t know, he seems to be our resident expert on -. SPRINGER:Mr. Fuke, do you have any reservations, concerns with Mr. Harlan coming before us? FUKE:No, no. SPRINGER:Okay. Mr. Harlan, if you could return to the table, please. MCCALL:I guess, I had a couple of questions. One, some references are madetothequarryinWaimea.Areyoufamiliarwithit? HARLAN:Yeah,that€sWestHawaiiConcrete. MCCALL:Okay.Iguessmyquestionsare,numberone,couldyoucompare, say, in magnitude what the size of, you know, how much material do you think would be crushed here versus Waimea? HARLAN:Okay, that€s a good question. West Hawaii Concrete is probably 60 to 1 what this one would be. And what you see the dust up there, which I€ve seen is the road going back to the quarry, it€s not actually the crusher. It€s the road going back to the quarry is what you see, cause it€s a dirt road. And when you see the trucks at 35-40 miles an hour going on that dirt road for, it€s four miles to be exact, you€ll see the dust come up. It€s not from the crusher. Crushers don€t really make dust. I mean, they got it so sophisticated now that you put a spray bar on it, I mean, the crusher itself only makes dust when you start it up in the morning. You€ll get a quick dust from the belt sitting overnight, and then it is gone. We crush every day now. And I€ve never had a complaint, ever, and I don€t even have water where we crush now. This facility has water, which is one good point about doing it there, it does have water. There are other sites around but they don€t have the water; and this does have water. But the dust cloud that you see up there, number one, there is two quarries up there. West Hawaii Concrete has a quarry, plus there is a soil quarry right next door to it, Deloitte€s Soil Quarry; and they both share the same road where they probably do 100 to 150 loads a day, and this one will do maybe five to six loads a day. I mean, there€s no comparison, cause if they are really huge, this one will be really small. MCCALL:Because they service in this area -? 29 HARLAN:Well, cause they service all of Waimea, all of Kona; and this will just service Naalehu. And, well, they won€t even service all the way to Hilo because you can€t compete, cause you got crushers right here in Hilo. But it will service from up till like Milolii or Kona Paradise to, by the mac nut farm down there. That€s probably the area it will service in there. SPRINGER:Mr. McCall, follow-up? MCCALL:Okay. No, that€s enough for me. Thank you very much. SPRINGER:Thanks, again, Mr. Harlan. Commissioners, any additional questions or comments? FUKE:Madam Chair, in response to Commissioner Graham€s, I don€t know,Iwasjustkindofthinkingaboutit-.ButthewayIunderstandit,likeforthe crushing operation, you€ll have the water system and you€ll also, the way that they operate, the crushing, you know, they€ll do maybe like about two or maybe three weeks or maybe at a month but, you know, in a steady period; and then they assemble the crushed rocks all in one area. And the crushing then, operation, then ceases and then from there then they just kind of utilize and just take out the material as needed. So if you want to have like a condition that would require all activity to cease during winds, you know, when winds are in excess of normal trade winds then, you know, it€s really like not a problem. The operation is such that, you know, they don€t have to operate like every day. So -. SPRINGER:Commissioners? Thank you, Mr. Fuke. I was going to ask about that if there was a possibility of stopping work given certain weather conditions. FUKE:Conditions, yeah. SPRINGER:Okay, and you are in -? FUKE:We have no problem. But I was just having some difficulty trying to structure the language, but the intent was there, yeah. SPRINGER:Right, and where the trigger would be. Thank you. I€m sorry, Director Yuen. YUEN:Have you done Special Permit applications for other quarries? I kind of remember now. FUKE:I don€t remember. YUEN:I was just trying to, my impression was that we had done permit applications, just trying to get a handle on the noise situation, that we have had quarries 30 that were considerably closer to residences for some Special Permits. AndI€m just having trouble remembering the areas. FUKE:Maybe staff could help. YUEN:Wasn€t there one in the Keaau area, a quarry? HAYASHI:Yeah, Puna Rock is makai side of Keaau town. That was a Special Permit. YUEN:Yes. And there€s a camp, there was an actual, a plantation camp within a half a mile, I think, of that quarry. HAYASHI:I believe that€s the Milo Street camp and that probably is about less thanamile,Iwouldsuspect. YUEN:Yes.WeputinthatsameconditionthatMr.Fukeistalkingabout should unforeseen problems arise that the permit can be revoked. HAYASHI:I€m not familiar as to whether we did include such a condition. YUEN:I think we did that. Did we have any follow-up? We didn€t even have follow-up problems with that quarry, did we? HAYASHI:No. Not to my knowledge. I don€t believe we had received any kind of complaints. FUKE:I was going to suggest, you know, maybe something along this line that the proposed use shall operate only during normal trade winds.‚ SPRINGER:Thank you for that. And would that then be tied to National Weather Service? FUKE:Correct. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, we have before us now, maybe just so we can help to collect our thoughts, as it stands now, the Applicant is willing to withdraw the asphalt batching request, adhere to all Department of Health permits, both as discussed to the context of this application and also in the previous permit, that the hours of operation have now been amended to be between 6 a.m. and 5 p.m. And we have just discussed a condition that indicates work should occur only under normal trade conditions keeping with National Weather Service reporting. Do I have that correct, Mr. Fuke? FUKE:The proposed quarry shall operate only during normal trade wind conditions as determined by the National Weather Service. 31 SPRINGER:Okay. Thank you. Commissioners, any discussion? MCCALL:Yeah. SPRINGER:Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Maybe, actually, on the trade wind thing, I€m trying to think if there would be a better way to do it. I mean, what we actually, Kona winds would actually be better time than the wind blowing the other direction. If we could just say, I don€t know, trade winds of less than 15 miles per hour‚ or something like that might, or would that, you know, would that -? I€m trying to get, that might be, because, actually, you know, when you have -. SPRINGER:Yes. MCCALL:Youknow,likemostofthisyearwehaven€thadtradewindsand would, things would be fine. But, I mean, that would actually be more, be better to do it, if you just don€t have trade winds, trade winds of less than some, it would seem to me it€d make more sense to me. SPRINGER:My understanding then is what you€re describing, Mr. McCall, is it€s the Kona winds that would be blowing noise and particulate matter towards the subdivisions? MCCALL:No, no, strong trades would blow it towards the subdivision. So I€m saying if we could have either, if the, I think the ideal times to use the quarry, you know, would be when the trade winds are not too strong, you know, so if we had something, if, you know, say, less than 20-mile per hour trade winds. You know, so to cease using the plant if trade winds are stronger than, say, 20 miles per hour. Or, I don€t know, something like that. I don€t know what would, what would work. I mean, cause I don€t want to, cause if we say only during normal trade winds,‚ we could go, you could have six months out of the year, like during the winter, when the trades aren€t here that he can€t run the plant. So -. SPRINGER:While we€re thinking on that, Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Yeah, I wanted to speak to that. It seems like the way, if you want to try to structure it in a way would be Weather Bureau€s small craft warnings, if there are small craft warnings due to strong trade winds, that would be the time you wouldn€t -. Small craft or gale warnings, yeah -. You wouldn€t want to try to measure the wind speeds and stuff like that. FUKE:Okay, it€s great. GRAHAM:If that would work for you. 32 FUKE:That would work. GRAHAM:Okay. MCCALL:Sounds good. FUKE:Very definable. SPRINGER:Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Director, do you have any comments on this line of reasoning to have this climate trigger, automatic trigger? YUEN:I think the small craft warnings or gale warnings is a good idea because it€s a good deal more objective -. SPRINGER:Okay. YUEN:Than just saying normal -. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, do you have anything more either questionsorcommentsonthismatter? SMITH:Madam Chair? SPRINGER:Sir? SMITH:Madam Chair? SPRINGER:Sir. SMITH:Suggest that we do these warnings that are localized. They should make reference to the location. SPRINGER:Make reference to, I€m sorry? SMITH:The area, the Ka u area. MCCALL:Oh, gale warnings in the Ka u area, is that it? SPRINGER:I€m not sure if there€s that specificity with National Weather Service -. SMITH:Yes, there is. They are usually localized, either south shore, north shore, east shore -. 33 FUKE:So then it would read that The project shall notoperate whenever there is a small craft warning in the Ka u district?‚ SMITH:I think they make reference also to areas exposed to trades,which would be that area. SPRINGER:So it€s south-facing shores -? MCCALL:But if he said in the Ka u area, that would probably, that would, you know, if it€s exposed to trades and you figure that that would cover it. So -. SMITH:The area where it€s exposed to normal trades. SPRINGER:Mr. Director? YUEN:And I think we would say that crusher would not operate -. SMITH:Yeah. SPRINGER:So question for my clarification, Commissioner Smith, it might not beareferencetoKa udistrictspecificallybuttocertainthatfacingshore? SMITH:At times they refer to the normal trades which all the testimony indicates is more towards the subdivision. SPRINGER:Mr. Fuke, are you on track? FUKE:Whichever way would be suitable, I mean, yeah. SMITH:Sometimes they make reference to south shores and then, you know, you€re totally not exposed to it. So -. FUKE:But if you have like, you know, just for clarity sake, if you have a small craft warning whether exposed to south wind, or by the trades, or whatever, but if it€s, any time you have like a small craft warning that affects any portion of the Ka u district, then during that time all crushing operation would cease. SMITH:Yeah, that would be great, I think. SPRINGER:Mr. Director, can you, will the staff be able to craft the appropriate language? YUEN:Yes. SPRINGER:Okay. For that and the other, the other items which we discussed, the DOH permits, the hours of operation and so forth? 34 YUEN:Yes. SPRINGER:Thank you. SMITH:Clarification. I assume this will not hinder the batching operations. Is that correct? FUKE:No, the Applicant is willing to give up the asphalt concrete portion but then still retain the concrete batching. SMITH:I€m talking about the concrete batching. FUKE:Yeah, the concrete batching is an essential component of this request. SMITH:Thisisinreferencetothequarryingoperation,Imean,the crushing, right? SPRINGER:The weather condition, yeah. MCCALL:Yeah. FUKE:Correct, yeah. SMITH:Okay. Thank you very much. SPRINGER:You€re welcome. Commissioners, is there any further discussion or questions of staff, or the Applicant, or Mr. Harlan? Is anyone prepared to make a motion on this matter then? MCCALL:I€ll make a stab at it. SPRINGER:Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Yes. In the matter of Ishimaru LLC Special Permit Application, SP 04-009, I move that we grant the Special Permit to establish a quarry and related uses, including a crushing and a concrete batching plant on approximately 12 acres of State Land Use Agricultural District, with the assorted amendments that hopefully the staff has on hand. SPRINGER:So with the Background Report, the Findings ƒ MCCALL:And Background Report and the Findings. 35 SPRINGER:And the amendments which have been discussed today; and those amendments include the withdrawal of the asphalt batching, adherence to all Department of Health permitting requirements, hours of operation amended to be 6 a.m. to 5 p.m. and the National Weather Service trigger on whether or not to operate under adverse conditions. MCCALL:Sounds good. SPRINGER:Is that it, Norman? HAYASHI:There was one other condition suggested by the Applicant€s representative, and that was a previous condition that the Land Use Commission imposed regarding the Planning Commission conducting its own investigation as to whether there are any violations or, I guess, violations, and that the Commission could terminate the permit.Idon€tknowifthat€swhatisalsoincludedinthemotion. SPRINGER:Norman,withregardtothatpreviousLUCcondition,who administers that condition? HAYASHI:That would be the Department on behalf of the Planning Commission, but we will be consulting with the Department of Health if it€s a dust problem or noise problem. SPRINGER:Yes, thank you for that, Norman. I do have that on my, now that you mentioned it, on my list. Sidney, is that still on the table then? FUKE:That€s right. That€s identified as Condition 11 of the Land Use Commission approval, Land Use Commission€s permit. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioner McCall, is that acceptable to you? MCCALL:That sounds good. SPRINGER:Commissioner McCall has made the motion. Is there a second? SMITH:Second. SPRINGER:Thank you, Commissioner Smith. Is there any discussion on this matter? Commissioner Graham? B. GRAHAM:I certainly feel much more comfortable with it after this. And the only other consideration I was going say is that the small craft warning issue does come up several times during the course of a day. You know, like there€ll be a 5 a.m. report, and 11 a.m. report, and an evening report; and also there could be little ticky-tacky issues involved with that. So I don€t know about actually trying to specify everything, but I think the intent is clear. And to me it would be a violation if it was going on for the 36 whole day or something and actually continued work. But if he misses one warning, didn€t catch the 11 o€clock warning or something, that doesn€t feel to me like that€s reason to jump down the Applicant€s throat. So I just want to put that in as an understanding. SPRINGER:Thank you. Any further discussion? Norman, I think we€re ready to vote. HAYASHI:Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Aye. HAYASHI:Commissioner Smith? SMITH:Aye. HAYASHI:CommissionerAlameda? ALAMEDA:Aye. HAYASHI:CommissionerGraham? GRAHAM:Aye. HAYASHI:Chair Springer? SPRINGER:Yes. HAYASHI:Madam Chair, motion carries. SPRINGER:Thank you. FUKE:Thank you very much. SPRINGER:Thank you, community members from Ka€u, who came to this meeting, and Mr. Fuke, as always. And you€ll be notified in writing of today€s decision. The discussion ended at 4 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary 37 38