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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-07-06 TSUPERSTORES PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI€I HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 6, 2007 A regularly advertised hearing on the COUNTY COUNCIL AND PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED AMENDMENTS TO CHAPTER 25 RELATING TO SUPERSTORESwas called to order at 2:00 p.m. in the County of Hawaii, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Second Vice-Chairman Rodney Watanabe presiding. PRESENT:Rodney WatanabeABSENT & EXCUSED: William Graham Takashi DomingoC. Kimo Alameda Alvin RhoAndrew Iwashita ShellyOgata Rene Siracusa Rell Woodward Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher Yuen, Planning Director Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 40 people from the public in attendance. INITIATOR: COUNTY COUNCIL Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, relating to Retail Establishments. The proposed amendment would not permit ‚superstoresƒ in any zoning district. ‚Superstoreƒ means a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, offering for sale more than 25,000 different stock k eeping units, and dedicating more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area to the sale of groceries. INITIATOR: PLANNING DIRECTOR Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2005 Edition), as amended, to create a ‚superstoreƒ zoning district, which would be the only zoning district where a ‚superstoreƒ would be allowed. WATANABE:This is the second hearing that were holding on the East side on the superstore ordinance. Couple of things to start off with, some ground rules. Okay, I do have like 21, at this point, people that want to testify on that. Youre certainly all welcome to testify. However, because of the large number of people that wish to testify, Id like you all to cooperate with us and limit your testimony to three minutes each so that we have time to listen to everyone. And, you know, after a while the attention span is gone. Even if you keep on talking we wont hear you anyway. Thats the first item. 1 EXHIBIT B The second item is, you know, its a rather emotional issue so lets try not to make this a Big Island against Wal-Mart issue. It is an ordinance abouta superstore and not about Wal-Mart. And theres one other item that came up during our last meeting here; and thats in regard to how Hawaiian Home Lands determines their policy and whether, you know, theyre going to allow a Wal-Mart or whatever it is to be developed on Hawaiian Home lands; and this is not the venue to argue that point. We dont have any jurisdiction about how they govern themselves. So Id appreciate it if wed stay away from those issues. With that, while it is customary for the Planning Commission to hear items of this nature on both sides of the island, I dont believe its a requirement in any of our rules. And we did attempt to have a hearing of this nature on the West side. But we were unable to establish a quorum at our last meeting, so that meeting was cancelled. And Ive also been informed that we are up against a timeframe. We have 60 days, I believe, to respond; and so for the Commissioners Im hoping that one way or another, whether its for or against,thatwellbeableto,youknow,gettogetherandforwardarecommendationtothe Council regarding these issues. Yes? SIRACUSA:I just wanted to remind you that before the Kona meeting, the meeting before the Kona meeting, we did take testimony from the public on the superstore issue. WATANABE:Yeah, thats right, youre right. So its not as though it was completely ignored. So with that, I think Id like to turn over the mike over to Mr. Yuen so he can explain the proposed amendments. YUEN:Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, Members of the Planning Commission, members of the public. The Planning Commission is here in its role as advising the County Council on changes in the Zoning Code. Unlike most of the things that we look at, which are site specific zoning amendments, these involve changes to the Zoning Law itself, you know, changes of the basic rules of the Zoning Code. The Planning Commission will make a recommendation to the County Council but the County Council makes the final decision. You actually have two recommended bills concerning superstores in front of you. One was initiated by the County Council. Council Member Higa actually drafted the bill and would ban a type of retail outlet that the bill calls a superstore. Essentially thats a grocery store attached to a discount, a retail discount store. Now, and the second bill was something that I put together after reviewing that bill because the Planning Department has to make a recommendation to the Council on any changes that the Council initiates to the Zoning Code. This bill would not ban such stores outright but put them in a special zoning category. So it would be necessary, and since nothing is zoned for a superstore currently, any site for a superstore would have to be rezoned to become a superstore site. So those are the two options that are in front of the Planning Commission. The third option which would be not to change the Code, and I think its worth discussing that. Under the present Zoning Code whats called a superstore in these bills would simply be considered another form of retail establishment, and it would be permitted in a commercial zone or an MCX zone, a Mixed Industrial/Commercial zone. So, for example, it could be opened up on any sufficiently large vacant zoned commercial site, like along Henry Street or the Gateway Center in Keaau or Honokohau Business Park. Where youre at with these two is a little bit 2 EXHIBIT B different, and where the condition is at in terms of the process. And let me talk about the process just a little bit. The Council-initiated bill has been heard on both sides of the island, was put on the agenda and heard on both sides of the island already. And on the Council-initiated bill, the Commission has a time deadline to make its recommendation to the Council. If the Commission doesnt have five votes, either asa favorable or unfavorable recommendation on that, it still goes up to the Council, but as an unfavorable recommendation. The deadline will be before the next meeting, so this is your last meeting to act on the Council-initiated bill. The Planning Director-initiated bill was available for public comment when the Council-initiated bill was heard in Kona a month and a half ago. In a way it has been, the people have had the opportunity to see it. It was public, people could comment on it. But it actually wasnt put on, we didnt have time to put it on the agenda for that meeting in Kona. So just to be consistent with our practice in the past of having an item that makes an island-wide change heard formally on both sides of the island, were recommending that the Planning Commission defer action on th thePlanningDirector-initiatedbilluntiltheJuly20 meeting. This will result in the two bills coming up to the Council at different times. The Council controls it own schedule. And the Council can decide whether they want to wait and hear both bills at the same time or if they want to take them out of sequence, because theyre coming up outofsequence. But that will be up to the Council. So just to repeat, you know, what the substance of the bill is again, the Council-initiated bill would have a definition for a superstore. It has been crafted so that according to the Council it doesnt apply to more wholesale type outlets like Costco that dont have a very large number of individual types of items for sale, but it would apply to the typical Wal-Mart supercenter. The Planning Director-initiated bill would not ban such stores but it would say that the only place you could put them is in a new type of zoning district, so that you would have to rezone an area to haveasuperstore.Itlimitstheareasthatyoucanhavethatkindofasuperstoretocertain existing zoning districts and areas that are designated for either High Density Urban or for Industrial/Commercial mixed use in the General Plan. And the final thing is if nothing is passed then it would simply be legal to establish a store like this in any Commercial or Industrial/Commercial zoned area. A final thing Id like to say is that there has been a lot of public testimony that is also directed against Big Boxes. None of these bills affect what you would call a typical big box retail outlet like a Home Depot or a Costco. The County of Kauai, Im not sure if they passed it. Well, the last I saw they were on the verge of passing something like this. I did look at this as a possibility, as an alternative; but on an island here where we have two Wal-Marts, two Home Depots, a Costco and a K-Mart, it seems like that it would be definitely a case of locking the barn door after the horse had gone away to institute a ban or other serious control on big boxes in general. So, we also have lots new public testimony on this. And there are lots of people who have signed up, so Ill stop right now and take any questions that the Commissioners may have. WATANABE:Are there any questions for the Director from the Commission? Well, I have a comment, Mr. Yuen. First of all, I want to thank you for the material you sent on the traffic study; and I thought, you know, by having that we could quantify what type of traffic, level of traffic anyway. But now that I have it I dont know what I could do with it aside from saying, yes, supermarkets do generate more traffic. And the reason I brought it up is because initially I thought the definition of superstore was possibly too narrow. But it seems from this 3 EXHIBIT B report or information that youve provided us its very difficult to quantify what levelof traffic we should be looking at. But it also seems obvious to me that possibly the current definition of superstores is adequate even though there are a lot of ways to get around it. And with that, if there are no other questions, I guess well be open for public testimony. So once again, Id like to remind you please be concise and keep your testimony to three minutes. And Ill call up the first four people on the list. I have Terrence Lee, David Paulson, Patrick Kahawaiolaa and Doug Arnott. Is Doug Arnott here? PUBLIC:He had to leave. WATANABE:If hes not here, Ill call up the next person then, Scarlett OHara Bill. Would you come up, please. Thank you. Okay, would you all raise your right hand so I can swear you in, please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:Yes. WATANABE:Yes, okay. And Ill start from my right, so Patrick you would be up first. And,onceagainfortherecord,wouldyoustateyournameandaddresspriortoprovidingyour testimony. KAHAWAIOLAA:Yes. Good afternoon. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Planning Commission, my name is Patrick Kahawaiolaa. I live at 1260 Lama Road, Panaewa, Hawaii. I am here to give testimony based first on the Planning Directors initiative to amend the Chapter 25, Zoning Code, Hawaii County, to create a superstore zoning district where zoning or superstores would be allowed. I gave testimony at the first hearing that they had, the one before this, and I was in opposition to a superstore. However, I questioned the fact that a rezoning, everything is being talked about a superstore has to do with Hawaiian Home Lands, so it goes without saying. And Id like to get a clarification at this time, maybe not by the Planning Director which gave you the clarification the last time, but from Mr. Torigoe, the Corporation Counsel, as to whether the County has an opportunity or the authority to rezone lands having the status of Hawaiian Home lands. Because what has been said in the papers is this, even if they did a ban in Hawaii County or created this zone, it would not apply to Hawaiian Home Lands. So for purpose of clarification, this Commission needs to understand what can happen. Even if you say there is no ban or there is a ban and they want to do a superstore on Hawaiian Home lands, are they now allowed to circumvent the Countys compliance laws and ordinances and build it anyway, which they did with the Waiakea Center? So thats my opposition, my opposition is in favor of a ban, opposition to a superstore and a zoning if it has anything to do with Hawaiian Home lands on this island because were an island state. Were already talking about developments that have created a lot of problems in the past; and I just hope that this Planning Commission does not continue to do that in the future, because were now being subjected to all the poor planning that was done, i.e. in Puna, in Hawaiian Paradise Park and those places. I just need to let you know I am advocate for Hawaiian Homes. I believe the Hawaiian Home lands should be used for trust obligations, which was to provide home, housing, pastoral. In light of the rhetoric that you may hear from the State of Hawaii and this Department of Hawaiian Homes to say we need to generate income and so therefore we need to lease these lands to 4 EXHIBIT B corporations, the State of Hawaii made a very generous settlement of $600,000,000 to the Department of Hawaiian Home. And I think thats a heck of a lot of money to put infrastructure on, rather than to go get general leasing. So I would be opposed to it. I leave you with this one caveat, that development in Hilo was allowed to happen again up in the Waiakea Uka area when they wanted to develop there; and how it was developed, it was developed by the County of Hawaii taking 25 acres of Hawaiian Home lands for the flood control. The flood control is there, thats what allowed the upper parts of Hilo to be developed; and that flood control starts at the 4- mile bridge, ascends right through the Department of Hawaiian Home lands, and its there. Today Im ashamed to say that the County has not maintained it properly. Its overgrown again. So it will create a problem at the next flood that comes down through that area. But I believe its time that the County takes a stand. And, well, anyway, the Planning Commission does after being correctly advised by your Corporation Counsel -. Please dont get me wrong. If you have the right to do it, please by all means go ahead and do it. If you dont have the right to do it, dont do it. And when I say the right, I mean the authority and the jurisdiction to do it based on theHawaiianHomesCommissionAct,andalltheotheropinionsthatcameoutthatsaysyou couldnt rezone, you couldnt do this. And what is being brought to light in the paper is that theyre saying even if you created a ban were still going to go do it on Hawaiian Homes because you dont have the authority to do it, to stop us anyway. So I think thats an arrogant attitude to take in spite of the fact. And remember, what the Department of Hawaiian Home do does not reflect on the beneficiaries. Hawaiian Home is a State entity, so thank you. WATANABE:I understand your emotion. And, personally, to be honest with you, I think Hawaiian Home lands should be used for the Hawaiians also. However, I think I should allow our counsel to briefly explain to you that, and I think hes going to say this, that we really dont have jurisdiction over them. Okay? KAHAWAIOLAA:Well, I need for them to know. WATANABE:And so with that Im going to turn it over to counsel. KAHAWAIOLAA:Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. TORIGOE:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wish that there was a real crystal clear simple answer that can be given to this. I think generally speaking there is no case that really addresses this exactly in Hawaii. What we end up with, I think the best thing we can probably say is that with respect to commercial uses like this it becomes, you know, theres some question. It has not been exactly decided. But I think what we fall back on at this point is that, what it boils down to is that when you trace down what you can trace through the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act and HRS, Chapter 171, that the placement of Commercial and Industrial and such business uses is supposed to be at least consistent with County zoning requirements. And so basically the County has entered into a memorandum of agreement with DHHL which tries to accomplish that. Where there is a pallet of County zoning requirements, DHHL retains the ability to designate what kind of zoning should apply to its lands, and then the County along with DHHL administers that zoning consistent with other County zoning. So thats, I think, the most concise answer I can give you. WATANABE:Thank you. Are there any other questions from the Commissioners of the testifier? No. 5 EXHIBIT B KAHAWAIOLAA:Mr. Chairman, may I respond just to one thing that Mr. Torigoe said, please. WATANABE:Sure, sure. KAHAWAIOLAA:Excuse me, yes. I understand a Memorandum of Agreement was made. I just need the general public and I need this Commission to understand the MOA is not set in concrete. It can be at the behest of either party cancelled with a 180-day notice. The point Im trying to make is the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act is set in concrete. Thats concrete. You need to change it, you need to amend it, which I think they did. They circumvented it by doing an MOU or an MOA. But if you need to change anything, I think one of Hawaiis greatest justices, Justice Richardson, said this, ‚If you want to change and amend the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, seek the consent of Congress.ƒ Thats where it lies. So I thank you very much.MOAsdoesntmeananythingtonativeHawaiians.ItalleviatestheCountymaybefrom law suits and stuff like that; but, trust me, that is not how you deal with Hawaiian Home Lands. So I thank you very much for that explanation, Mr. Torigoe; and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to give testimony. But Im for a ban and against any kind of superstores here in Hawaii, especially on Hawaiian Homes. Thank you. WATANABE:Okay, thank you. Scarlett, right? BILL:Hello, Ive been in Hawaii -. WATANABE:Would you state your name and address, please. BILL:Thank you. My name is Scarlett OHara Bill. Ive lived in Hawaii since 1972. I came by way of Japan. I was an entertainer. My husband and I moved here and had a son at Kapiolani Hospital; and we adopted a daughter who arrived from Korea. This is a beautiful, beautiful island with a wonderful blending of cultures and peoples. And weve loved living in Kona for 27 years. In the last year our revenue has dropped 60 percent because of the choking traffic that has happened over the last 5 years with all of the development on Alii Drive trying to take care of the sewage system and build communication lines on land that is wet underneath it all the way to Kuakini Highway. It should be a national park, all that area. There was an argument last week about the heiau right in front of the King Kamehameha, that area thats all sacred to the Hawaiian people; and no one ever talked about well, bring back the beach, bring back the beach. They instead, they built a big cement pier. Were not sending out cattle any more. But it was there for a revenue, for revenue; and the big bucks theyre coming in with a big something that were going to see that has no air flow, really. If you spent a day with all the zombies, all of our wonderful friends working graveyard shifts in the Wal-Mart and the other big buildings, you would just know what this is doing to the wonderful aloha, Aloha awinala, Aloha ka kahiaka, you know, where is that happening. Where is that happening any longer, the iaos that stop in our trees going up the mountain to Hualalai? I live on the corner of Anini and Hinalani so Im 73 Anini Street. Weve been there 19 years and we see all the traffic that comes up from Costco. So Im the one that puts the sign on the wall 6 EXHIBIT B that says ‚Tranquility Zone.ƒ And youre welcome to stop on a Saturday and come in and say prayers for those who are serving for you in Iraq, or wherever. And its silent. Its a wonderful time to relax and be in that atmosphere. We think its a beautiful home; but wed not be able to live here any longer because of the choking traffic. No one can come into town any longer. No one can find the aloha. Such a shopping village that youre creating there mentally will bring in 20,000 cars easily. Thats just inevitable. You dont see it, you live in Hilo. We wanted to go to the meeting and everybody who wanted to be here cant be here because theyre working, trying to hang on to their small businesses. You can go to KTA and get wonderful detergent for $4.95, you cant get that in the big, the others. When you walk out half, half the amount of what you spent in a big store you can get in a local store. And that has to be thought about; and if you dont think about it then think about thefactthattheresafireunderthatdumpsterinfrontofthepolicestationinKona.Theyhada fire under that. You know, it has been buried there. And thats what its going to be when theyre moving things like the Dillingham did off the coast in Honolulu. We watched Waipahu drown, we watched how the big building they would put in for the big supercenter that they did there, how you get lost. You cant find your way back to Wahiawa, you cant find yourself to Mililani. Youd get lost for an hour if you drive. Its going to happen like that in five years, would be my forecast from what weve seen. We only had one light, one there at the corner of, like a small Pay For Less, Longs Drug store coming into Kona; and look at it now. And weve been here 27 years. So my fear is that its, again, planning, that if you can think beyond where we are now and the pressure youre under, my esteem friends who were voted by the people, for the people, of the people, youre going to, the highest minded individuals that were going to have, youre grand, gentlemen and ladies. And I know you all. I know you, I hear what you do. But if you look at the plan, look at the slopes that you can put that on. Put that superstore somewhere else, say more centrally located, Waimea area. You know, give them a chance. Just come, come stay at my house; and Ill have to give you a shower because youre going to wait in line for a long time. Now we do have a light there because weve had so many people die in accidents coming up Hinalani and going down and not being able to put on the brakes and going on to the Kaahumanu Highway. You can really die in those intersections. Think what its going to be when you have a big van and you have a big cabin and its full of stuff that just came in from China that youre going to put in one of those stores? Its not for the people and of the people. For the people and of the people are these small family operations that have generations, like Teshimas Restaurant, and from just shave ice to what she has today, a 100-year birthday, what her family has done for this island. And think of how many weve lost who had to move to the mainland because they cant live in it anymore. You have to have a big truck to be important. Do we need any more? Thank you very much. WATANABE:Thank you. Are there any questions of this testifier? DOMINGO:Question. WATANABE:Go ahead. 7 EXHIBIT B DOMINGO:Thank you for coming. You said that you have a business? BILL:Yes, sir, 27 years. We are probably one of the very few jewelers onthe island who repair and remake everything you have in a broken smoking box. If youre not smoking any more, you have broken chains, you have broken -. My husband and those who work with him can repair everything and recycle them. DOMINGO:So what youre saying is that youre being impacted by those largestores that have been built? BILL:Yes, were being impacted by people who give you shoddy merchandize thats going to break. DOMINGO:Orisitbecauseofthestoresbeingthereandthetrafficthathasbeen generated that in essence then prevents people from coming to your -. BILL:Prevents, yes, sir. Theres no parking -. DOMINGO:So theres direct and indirect effect on your business? BILL:Thats right, thats right. Its a very sad condition for all of them. I look at them and they all look sad, all of these families weve known for years. Theyre working under great stress because they can get something maybe not the quality of what they would get from these small operations. They just dont get the quality, nor do they get the service. DOMINGO:Yeah, okay. Excuse me. BILL:Yes, sir. DOMINGO:Now you had mentioned that you had other friends who have been here. Are they in business also? BILL:Yes, sir. Theyre all working as hard as they can. DOMINGO:And they have the same sentiments as you? BILL:Yes. We work seven days a week. Yes, sir, same sentiment. I have a lot of signatures. Im sure youve received at least 100 from those friends, because we did have a meeting at the Big Island Grill and, I mean, they were totally, all those business friends are real, theyre real benefactors like you. They have children and grandchildren and theyve worked hard to build a town thats built upon the history and the aloha. DOMINGO:So it would be proper to interpret your presentation to mean that there should be a ban for those -? BILL:I think this should be banned; and it could be moved to an area that is certainly not going to be choked with just standing in traffic trying to get out of town to go home 8 EXHIBIT B all the way to Honaunau, and not having, theres no way -. The traffic is abominable. Theres no road length, there was never any planning with any road length. We did go to Tenerife, Canary Islands with my daughter -- my Korean daughter married a wonderful person -- and we saw that they have these rounds where you approach from, each plaza is a round, so you go in a circle. You never have to stop; and so that the flow of the traffic is always there. It takes more room to built that kind of a flow but we have the land on this island to exercise an opportunity to do a better highway planning road, Commission planning, that would probably -. DOMINGO:Thank you. WATANABE:We might be getting off the subject though, yeah? BILL:Yes. WATANABE:Okay,please.Anyotherquestions?Thankyou.Iguessyoumustbe Mr. Terrence Lee? LEE:Yes, sir. WATANABE:Would you state your name and address for the record, please. LEE:Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. Terrence Lee. Im an attorney representing a grass roots coalition that exists statewide that is opposed to superstores in Hawaii. We have submitted extensive written testimony to the Commission and I hope that each Commissioner will carefully study and review the materials weve submitted, particularly the studies that are attached to the exhibits to our letter that are case studies of how superstores have impacted other communities on the mainland, and particularly the negative impacts on small businesses and local businesses that have existed for 20-30 years. There is one case study, I think, of particular significance; and that has to do with the City of Calexico in California that has a population of approximately 30,000, slightly smaller than Hilo, but I think warrants careful consideration by the Commissioners in determining how youre going to decide on what your recommendation is to the Council. Hoomalu Hawaii is opposed to the Planning Directors recommended ordinance to establish a particular zoning classification for superstores. We believe that the empirical evidence and studies that exists on the mainland relative to superstores makes it abundantly clear that a superstore in the County of Hawaii is a bad idea. It will create adverse impacts on the community that far surpasses and outweighs the perceived positive impacts, specifically I think, you know, lower prices and goods. To the extent the Commission is considering establishing a superstore classification, I would urge the Commission to, at a minimum, require as part of the approval process an economic impact assessment before approving any development of a superstore. I think that is unquestionably the paramount concern with superstores; and I think in a small community like Hilo, in fact, all of our communities, Honolulu being the exception because it is so much larger than all the other neighbor islands -. But I think at a minimum an economic assessment of what the impact of a superstore will be to the entire community is a critically important consideration. Thank you. WATANABE:Do any of the Commissioners -? Mr. Woodward? 9 EXHIBIT B WOODWARD:Yes, sir. As always the devil is in the details. And as an attorney you must realize that unfortunately no matter where your feelings lie this law will not work. The reason for that is the definition. And apart from whether or not Hawaiian Home Lands is autonomous, thats one consideration. But the way the County Council has drafted their provision it says superstore means a business exceeding 90,000 gross square feet, number one; offering for sale more than 25,000 different stockkeeping units, number two; and dedicating more than 20,000 gross square feet of floor area to the sale of groceries. Well, to be a superstore you have to satisfy or violate, depending how you look at it, all of those three criteria. So if Target, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Costco came in and wanted to build a 250,000 square foot building with 80,000 stockkeeping items but they only dedicated 19,000 square feet to groceries, theyre not a superstore. So thats the problem I have with this. And this is a question that Commissioner Siracusa brought up at the last meeting, the devil is in the details. The definition is such that anybody can get around it. So Im afraid, you know, that this is flawed legislation. AndregardlessofwhetherornottheDepartmentofHawaiianHomeLandsisautonomous,its bad law; and I dont see how it can work. LEE:Commissioner Woodward, I think your point is well taken. However, it is the responsibility of the County Council to draft appropriate definitions for a superstore and, you know, I think it is certainly within its authority to redraft the ordinance in such a manner that it can survive any legal challenge, whether its vague or what have you, whatever legal challenges are appropriate. But I think the primary responsibility of the Planning Commission is, as a matter of public policy, whether it believes superstores are appropriate in the County of Hawaii or not. And I think if you go back to the County Council with a clear message that at least as far as this Commission is concerned, superstores are not appropriate for the County of Hawaii, the Council and its legislative aids and Corporation Counsels office can draft the legislation in a manner that it will survive legal challenge. I mean it has been done on the mainland, they can borrow legislation from the other municipalities on the mainland that have been challenged and survived such challenges. So, yes, the devil is in the details; and I believe it is the Councils responsibility to fulfill the challenge of drafting a law that will survive any legal challenge, but it is this Commissions responsibility to determine as a matter of public policy whether superstores are appropriate or not. Thank you. WATANABE:Are there any questions for this testifier? Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yes, its my recollection that when I raised this question the last time Director Yuen pointed out that the figures given; and these criteria are really a lot less already than what we would normally expect on the mainland for a superstore. Am I remembering that correctly, Director Yuen? YUEN:I didnt come up myself with a number of stockkeeping units, so that part I cant verify. The sizes though, the 90,000 square feet is considerably less than the typical superstore. And although I partially agree with what Commissioner Woodward says in that yes, you can manipulate, a business can choose to manipulate one of these parameters and not be a superstore any anymore, it would wind up not being -. On the other hand, it would wind up not fitting the actual model of the Wal-Mart superstore any more. In other words, they would have to modify their typical business which is, you now, they have a stock kind of business that they put out and they would have to make a considerable modification to that in order not to be a 10 EXHIBIT B superstore. You would end up with a large department, retail department store that had a grocery store in it; but you would probably have to cut down the number of individual types of units that, different types of items that you had on the floor. WATANABE:May I make a comment to that. I think the Director probably summarized it best when he said we shouldnt use planning rules to legislate economics, you know, and therefore I was hoping that we could find something that was based more around traffic as opposed to what type of store or what type of items we would try to legislate. And based on that and the information he provided, it seems obvious that supermarkets and probably the amount of items that are for sale are trip generators. And based on that I think then youre still focusing in on the amount of traffic that is generated by a particular store, whether it be a Wal-Mart or whatever. And I think if we stick to that then were being true to what were empowered to do. I really dont think were here to legislate the type of stores. LEE:Onthatparticularpoint,Mr.Chairman,IwouldbringtheCommissioners attention to Exhibit 6 of our written testimony which, Im sorry Exhibit 5 of our written testimony which is an article entitled ‚Trip Generation Characteristics of Free-Standing Discount Superstores.ƒ WATANABE:Okay, thank you. Are there any further questions for this? Yes, Mr. Rho. RHO:Im not sure which one Im looking at because they look exactly the same, but I think its mentioned in both. It basically starts on page 4 of 10. Its the last bullet; and then it runs to the next page, page 5 of 10. And it ends with, ‚is now part of a growing number of dead Wal-Marts littering cities.ƒ Can you elaborate on that. LEE:Well, I mean, you know, we are simply paraphrasing the conclusion that this particular author came to in studying the impact that Wal-Mart had on particular communities that it opened a superstore in. But I think the point there is that because the sheer size of a Wal-Mart superstore, or any superstore for that matter, and its ability to take advantage of economies of scale and other cost-saving measures that exists when you do business in that magnitude, theyre able to offer prices far below what smaller competitors can achieve. You know, its not uncommon for wholesalers or manufacturers to give volume discounts based on how much you order. The more you order, the cheaper you can buy it for. Therefore, the cheaper you can sell it to your customers and still make a profit. Big Box retailers, superstores operate on extremely thin margins. I mean its no secret that Costco derives a significant percentage of its profits from its membership fees. When businesses are able to maintain those low prices and stay in business, they inevitably will drive out a business, their weaker competitors. And I think that is the phenomenon that occurred here in this study. I think this study is actually attached in full as Exhibit 4 to our written testimony. But the danger is that once the competitors no longer exists, then what will the superstores do? Well, these are profit-driven organizations. This is a publicly-traded company. Publicly-traded companies sole master is the stock value that Wall Street will assign to their shares. And what drives the stock price is their return on their invested capital. And so the more profits they can generate the higher the returns. And thats why ultimately its believed that the perceived cost savings that the consumer will enjoy through a superstore really doesnt exist. 11 EXHIBIT B WATANABE:Thank you. We have any other questions for this particular testifier? No? Okay, thank you. I believe David Paulson, would you -. PAULSON:Correct, David Paulson, Im here with Mr. Lee. WATANABE:I would need you to state your address though. PAULSON:Excuse me, 3254 Hoolulu Street in Honolulu. WATANABE:Okay. PAULSON:I actually just wanted to address your question. I believe you were talking about the growing number of dead Wal-Marts and you wanted elaboration on that. What happens, and this article was focusing on Wal-Marts supercenters specifically but its applicable tothetypeofbusiness.Whatwillhappenistherewillbeaninitialretailstoreandthenvery closely to that store they will open a supercenter, close the initial store and it just lays dormant. And so thats the dead Wal-Marts littering the city. It adds to the Urban blight. And that was what I believe, if that was what you were asking. Thats what this section was talking about. RHO:I understand that. But I guess, and I understand that profit motive, etc. but when youre speaking, youre speaking as if it hasnt happened yet, that it will happen. Im not talking about in Hawaii. Im talking about wherever its happening now. And I wanted to know whether or not there was any documentation on how many stores that happened to, and the social blight, etc. You know, I wanted to see it in black and white actually. So maybe if you can either point me to the right number -. PAULSON:Its Exhibit 6, is where these are coming from. RHO:Its six. Okay, thank you. BILL:Is it possible to speak out of turn and give a perfect example in Kona? WATANABE:We did provide with you with your opportunity. And if we did do what youre suggesting, we would actually never get done with this meeting. You know, we understand its an emotional issue, okay. PAULSON:And essentially I second everything that Mr. Lee has said. And to the extent that weve submitted testimony that I hope youve already reviewed -. And we do address the issue of zoning and DHHL lands, I understand you dont want to get into that. If you do have questions, Id be happy to answer, attempt to answer any that you have. WATANABE:Are there any other -? Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Well, I just wanted to let these two testifiers know that there are very extensive testimony. And, by the way, Commissioner Rho, one of them is for Agenda Item No. 6 and the other one is for Agenda Item No. 7, they were only given to us this morning; and with a full agenda, we have not had time to adequately review them. However, you know, since there will be another Kona meeting at least on the Planning Directors -. 12 EXHIBIT B WATANABE:No. SIRACUSA:No? YUEN:On the Directors bill, yes. WATANABE:Oh, on the Directors bill. Oh, I stand corrected. SIRACUSA:Okay, then we will have an opportunity, not to review it for the Council- generated resolution but for the Planning Directors resolution. In the meantime, if you would want to point us specifically to any specific land use focused parts of this so that we can make sure to read them for the next meeting we would be very happy to do so. Well, Im speaking for myself, I would. PAULSON:Well, the entire testimony relates to land use. The final section has to do withzoningandDHHLlands;andthatsgoingtostartonPage5ofItem6agendaandalsopage 5 of Item 7. WATANABE:Very good. Thats it? SIRACUSA:Thank you. WATANABE:Okay, you may be seated then. Thank you. PAULSON:Thank you. WATANABE:Let me proceed with the next four testifiers. I have Fujii, Bryan Halsey, Terrance Crowley, and Greg Gauthier. Did I pronounce that correctly? Donohue Fujie? FUJII:Fujii. WATANABE:Fujii, sorry. Why dont we once again begin -. Well, would you all raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. WATANABE:Thank you. Okay, for each of you, would you state your name and address for the record prior to your testimony. And lets begin with you, Donohue. FUJII:Good afternoon, Chairman, Commission Members. My name is Donohue Fujii. Im with the engineering firm of Austin, Tsutsumi and Associates. We are a civil engineering firm specializing in commercial development and traffic engineering. At this time, I just want to offer some clarification to an ITE General Article that may have been circulated. Thats related to the trip generation rates for supercenters. And the article is written by Georgiena Vivian, published in the ITE Journal dated, I think, August 6, 2006. We have reviewed that article and offer the following comments. 13 EXHIBIT B That article meets publication standards of ITE Journal. The article represents a summary of data collected by the author and their conclusions. The article does not indicate whether the article, the author has sent that data to be included in the upcoming versions of the ITE trip generation. Id like to note that the ITE trip generation reference is the nationally accepted standard guide for calculating vehicular trips, and not the ITE Journal. On the bottom of the, if you look at page 31, beginning page 32 of that article, they list the limitations of that study. The locations only were studied from the south central US and only five sites were studied. Only p.m. counts were taken, no Saturday or daily trips were counted. I do want to point out that the study is also based upon supercenters larger than 200,000 square feet with three of the five having a gas station. All sites had garden centers, grocery, pharmacy, photo center, portrait studio, and a tire and lube express. Some also had a business center and McDonalds. According to the Journals publication printed on the front cover, the publication does print a disclaimer. The disclaimer quotes ‚Opinions expressed herein are those of the authors and do not reflect official ITE or Magazine policy unless so stated.ƒ There is no reason for my firm to dispute the accuracy of the trip generation rates documented forthosefivesites.However,itisinouropinionthatthenotedtripgenerationratesarenot applicable to the proposed supercenters plan for Hawaii. The most significant reason for that invalidity is that the Hawaii supercenter program does not include gas stations and a tire lube express use. As most of us know and have experienced, the gas station use, especially discount gas like Costco, are significant trip generators. I also want to touch upon the claim by some supporters of the bill that supercenters will generate 20,000 more vehicles per day. There may be some stores on the mainland that have generated as much as those 20,000 vehicular trips per day, but we do not expect that kind of level of trips for the proposed centers in Hawaii. I do want to note that 20,000 vehicle trips does not mean 20,000 new vehicles as one vehicle will create two trips. And in Hawaii much of the trips will be further reduced by as much as 20 to 30 percent by way of pass-by trips. Pass-by trips are vehicles that are already on the road system. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes. Are you referring to this green handout that the Commissioners received here which states that this was the Institute of Transportation Engineers, Trip Generation Manual, that these figures came out of that? Is that what -? FUJII:No. Im referring to the article shown in the ITE Journal which is named Trip Generation -. SIRACUSA:Well, this is from that Journal. FUJII:Im not sure. I never saw that green sheet, Maam. But Im referring to the article in the ITE Journal dated August 6, 2006 and written by Georgiena Vivian. SIRACUSA:Im not sure that we even have that. Thats why I dont know what youre talking about. 14 EXHIBIT B FUJII:Its an article that has been circulated by many of the supporters of the bill. SIRACUSA:Okay, okay. Its in this. Thats what youre saying? FUJII:Im not sure where, but -. SIRACUSA:The previous testifiers. FUJII:Yes, that is the correct article. SIRACUSA:Okay. Im wondering, considering what youre saying about its not relevant to Hawaii necessarily because it was done in the south and different size stores with different types of services being offered, Im wondering how relevant this would be if we looked atthosesameparameters.WhatPlanningDepartmentstaffsentouttousonthetripgeneration that Commissioner Watanabe had requested, where do these figures come from? Do they come from stores that are the same size that have the same type, you know, all of those same parameters that this testifier was discussing. Are they just as invalid for this as for that? YUEN:Well, this comes out of a Nationally recognized manual that is normally used in doing, in estimating vehicle trips that would be generated by a particular type of retail use and by the Institute of Transportation and Engineers, they have, and then we attached to it a description of the type of store that each of these represents. Land Use Code A-13 is a free standing discount superstore. They are, and then you see the description, its a free-standing discount store and, which is also described. A free standing discount store is a thing like a Wal- Mart or a K-Mart, with the exception that they also contain a full-service grocery department under the same roof that shares entrances and exits with the discount store area. So this basically describes a Wal-Mart supercenter. I mean, its the most typical type of retail establishment. Now what the, then what the vehicle generation, the trip generation per thousand foot square gross floor area, you see the comparisons? And we just took the averages. If we want to make it a half inch thick we could have given all of the data but, and theres quite a variety, you know, between one store and another store, between one super market and another super market. There will be quite a variety and theres quite a range. But we took the averages, and you have the averages here. So what this shows as a superstore is very much comparable to what we were talking about in this bill. What it talks about as a supermarket is comparable to your typical Safeway. Shopping center is a shopping center with a bunch of different kinds of stores in it; and the discount store is like a big box retail establishment like a Wal-Mart or a K-Mart. WATANABE:Are there any other questions? SIRACUSA:No. Ill hold up. WATANABE:Anyone else have any questions? Any other Commissioners? So, okay, now Bryan? Is that right? GAUTHIER:Greg, Gregory Gauthie (phonetic). WATANABE:Greg Gauthier? 15 EXHIBIT B GAUTHIER:Gauthier? Well, I say Gauthie (phonetic). You can say Gauthier, Ill respond. WATANABE:Gauthie (phonetic), oh, Im sorry, Gauthier (phonetic). GAUTHIER:No, no, no. Its okay. They are silent, French, wacky French people. Chairman Watanabe, I dont want to make you perceive that I didnt hear what you said earlier about this just being about trips, so to speak, and I understood this to be the Planning Commission, though I have not read your preamble. I wanted to kind of talk about, use my three minutes to talk about the planning as it impacts the community based upon my perception. Would be -? WATANABE:Yeah, sure. GAUTHIER:Okay, thank you. Commissioner Chairman Watanabe, Commissioners, mahaloforthis.MynameisGregoryGauthier.IrepresenttheILWU.Ibelievethatitisupto you good community leaders to assist in directing the community choices you preside over to move us as a community, as a society, forward. One should not just look to a supercenter for jobs with a quantitative tint to their perspective but one should look to it with a vision that includes those jobs which enhance life, community and society. In the example of Wal-Mart- type supercenters, we have seen and heard time and time again that they laugh in the face of living wages, they laugh in the faces of decent medical insurance, they laugh in the face of sick leave benefits, and they laugh in the face of those workers who have sought to bring these basic benefits to enhance the lives of their workers into one of their stores. One might argue, Mr. ILWU rep (thats me) we have the Hawaii Prepaid Health Care Act here in Hawaii. Health care is compulsory. A corporation like Wal-Mart has found ways around this vital act. The Act requires an employee work at least 20 hours each week for four weeks in the prior month to be eligible for health insurance the following month. Some of these corporations believe that it is ethical to schedule workers as many hours as possible for three weeks and reduce the hours to below 20 hours in the fourth week so as not to pay the medical premium based upon the Hawaii Prepaid Health Care Act. This results in underinsured working people who have to tax the already over burden publicly funded medical systems here in Hawaii. How can stores like Foodland, Sack €n Save, and Safeway compete in the market that permits this type of abuse? Stores like Foodland, Sack €n Save, and Safeway have crucial benefits such as descent wages, family medical, sick leave, vacations and reasonable methods for employees to air their grievances. These are some of the most fundamental, crucial, building blocks to supporting the families which build our communities here on the Big Island. I would like to finish by again beseeching you respective volunteers who have given of yourself to sit on this Commission to enhance the lives of the citizens in each of your respective districts. I plead with you to support the enhancement and progression of our Hawaii island by supporting the County Councils amendment to enhance the lives of our communities and denounce the regression that the amendment to create a superstore zoning district would initiate. Mahalo. WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions from the Commissioners? Okay, thank you. Bryan, this time Im right, okay, Mr. Halsey? 16 EXHIBIT B HALSEY:Halsey, yes. Good afternoon, Chairman and Commissioners. My name is Bryan Halsey. Im the market manager. I oversee all the operations for our 8 stores in Wal-Mart here in Hawaii. As you know, Ive provided testimony against Resolution 21-07 at your Kona th meeting on May 24. Im here again today to testify against the alternative amendments as drafted by the Countys Planning Director. Its simply another way to limit competition on the Big Island and another way to accomplish the end result of Resolution 21-07, this time by creating a separate zoning district with the same square footage in SKU limitations. And I note that there are a lot of definitions for stockkeeping units, SKUs and everything else. That would definitely need to be clarified. Wal-Mart stands ready and willing and able to sit down with community leaders, County leaders to discuss community problems, concerns and find fair solutions that do not restrict free competition and unnecessary burden on the island families. Our goal at Wal-Mart is to be able to serve our communities with the best service and the best quality and selection at our every day low price. After all, thats what the residents of Hawaii deserve. And unlike the gentleman sitting next to me, he was speaking about my company, and he doesnt work for my company. Over 70 percent of the associates here in Hawaii, which were the fifth largest employer, are fulltime and theyre eligible for Kaiser or HMSA -. We have way more benefits than he listed. We are a good company. Our average pay rate for the State is $12.19 an hour, start rate at the store is $10.00 with experience and you can go way up. We have a lot of goodjobsandwedoalotofgoodforthecommunities.AndIllbegladtoansweranyquestions that you might have on that. As far as trip generation, there are a lot different definitions with that. We already have a lot of trips that go, obviously, into Hilo where most of the jobs are in Hilo. There are approximately 8,000 trips we have a day now at Wal-Mart; and a lot of those are stopping after or before work, during, and it would not increase or double that necessarily. Its just going to make it easier for them as far as logistically. If you limit it to one area of the island and youre not allowed to build development in other areas of the island, where is it going to be? Its going to be in Hilo. And were already here in Hilo and we want to do the right thing. And with that Id like to thank you for youre the opportunity to testify today. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Any other questions for this testifier? Yes. YUEN:I have a question about full time. Do you define full time as 40 hours a week or some other level? HALSEY:We have full time as over 36 hours. Anybody that works over 20 hours a week obviously has opportunity to have HMSA or Kaiser. WATANABE:Thank you. Terrance. CROWLEY:Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, sorry, good afternoon. My name is Terrance Crowley, I go by Terry. I live at 227 East Palai Street. Im the store manager for the Hilo Wal-Mart. I testified before, but thank you for the opportunity to testify again against Resolution 21-07 and its alternative. As you may recall, I helped open the Hilo Store. I was an assistant manager there in the mid-1990s. Ive actually been Hawaii since the early 70s. My wife is a native Hawaiian. She was born and raised in Keaukaha. And we currently live on DHHL land in Panaewa. Ill be brief and to the point. 17 EXHIBIT B Wal-Mart is against this resolution. It is anti-competitive and would hurt our island consumers. It will also hurt local suppliers and vendors. You might not know but were already working with 50 local suppliers and vendors on the Big Island and 487 state-wide. By adding a full line of grocery store, we would need to expand our local supplier base with additional farmers and local businesses. This bill would keep us from doing just that and we urge you to vote against it. And if I could add something else, is that, you know, a lot of times you look at Wal-Mart and everybody sees us as kind of like this big giant thats on the mainland. But when you think of Wal-Mart with all our workers, we are all basically its your mother, your farther, your brother, your sister, your aunty and your uncle from here in Hilo that work at Wal-Mart. So we are part of the community, too, and well do whatever we have to do to make it right. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions for this testifier? Okay thank you. You may be seated. You know, we have about I think 11 more testifiers. If its all right, can we takea5-minutebreak,Commissioners? WOODWARD:No. WATANABE:Please? WOODWARD:Okay. RECESSEDThe Chair called a short recess at 3:10 p.m. RECONVENEDThe meeting reconvened at 3:20 p.m. WATANABE:Okay, the Planning Commission meeting will come back to order. At this time well take this opportunity to call up the next four testifiers. I have a Richard Ha, Elmer -. GOROSPE:Gorospe. WATANABE:Gorospe. Is that correct? GOROSPE:Yes. WATANABE:Francis Benevides and Cory Harden. Im missing one of you. PUBLIC:He stepped out, Francis stepped out. WATANABE:Francis stepped out, okay. Let me circle that. Lets see, Janet Codispoti. PUBLICCodispoti, she had to leave. WATANABE:She had to leave. She wrote down she submitted testimony. Okay, so that one is done. Anna Ater, okay, thank you. Would you all raise your right hand, please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. 18 EXHIBIT B WATANABE:Okay, beginning on my far right, would you state your name and address for the record and then you can proceed with your testimony. GOROSPE:Elmer Gorospe, 2111 Kaumana Drive, Hilo, Hawaii. I live and work in Hilo, have a wife and three children. I know how expensive it is to support growing children and would love to pay less for our food, clothing and other necessities of life. But I would never shop at a superstore. Why you ask? Because a superstore, like Wal-Mart, has been built in many parts of the country, drives out its competition, usually small ‚mom and popƒ stores, and gradually becomes a monopoly. Superstores have made its millions (and billons) by doing that, as well as buying its goods from countries where workers and environmental rights mean next to nothing. I believe in supporting Hawaii-grown stores, like KTA and Foodland, that have been good to Hawaii residents. These stores have been supporting our economy through the good times and bad. We need to support them. But if we allow superstores to come to town, do you think these stores can compete? What about even the smaller stores like Sack €n Save, Safeway, Ace Hardware, etc.? Superstores will eat them alive. I dont think we need a superstore on the Big Island. Were a small community and we should stay that way. And thats why I urge the Planning Commission to reject the Planning Directors proposaltocreateasuperstorezoningdistrictandsupporttheCountyCouncilsproposaltoban superstores in any zoning district. Thank you for considering my views and concerns. WATANABE:Thank you. Do any of the Commissioners have any questions for Elmer? None? Thank you. State your name and address, please. HA:Im Richard Ha, 421 Lama Street. Im a farmer. We farm 600 acres in Pepeeko, Hamakua Springs. We have about 90 employees. And what I want to talk about is Im against the zoning for superstores for the reason that I think its going to be damaging to small farmers. The larger farmers can qualify and supply the large stores. But for, I think its more important to think about food security. About 70 percent of the food that we eat is imported and we have about 10 days of food in the pipeline. If we get something like bird flu, today the foods would be all gone. But, and its real important to take care of the small farmers. And stores like KTA and Foodland, they go out of their way to ride the good and the bad with the small farmers. Im considered a large farmer, and Im competing with some of the small farmers. But Ive noticed over the years that they make a special effort to take care of the small farmers. And its really important because you dont want to really rely on just a handful of big farmers. And I dont think its wise to rely on one big superstore. You know, I majored in business, Im an accounting major. Im supposed to, you know, I know about competition and fair trade and all that kind of stuff. Its good to talk about that. Unless you live in the middle of the Pacific, you really dont want to not grow your own food. Thats all I have to say. WATANABE:Thank you. Commissioner Siracusa? 19 EXHIBIT B SIRACUSA:Im a much smaller farmer than you. I only have 200 tangerine trees. And years ago when I was younger and could really work that orchard I noticed that some of the larger stores would not even look at buying my produce no matter how good it was because I could not supply them in the numbers that they wanted. And that was like Safeway, you know. And so I understand how the small farmers are really at a disadvantage in terms -. The larger the grocery store the harder it is to sell your produce to them. And so I definitely appreciate you bringing this particular slant on the subject, because we havent had that perspective from our previous testifiers. Thank you. WATANABE:Any other questions for this testifier? Thank you. HARDEN:Cory Harden, 18-4033 Kanahele Place in Mt. View. I urge you to vote for the amendment to ban superstore and against the amendment for a superstore zoning district. I urge you to follow Chris Yuens recommendation to have a hearing on the second one in Kona andtovotetheresothatKonafolkscanbeheard.Youalsoareworriedaboutsendingabillon the first issue of the Council that might not be adequate, possibly you could send it with recommendations. Im sure you all know how to reach your County Council Members also. So I think there are ways to deal with that. You folks are also worried about traffic. I know that intersection up after Wal-Mart and that whole center got built, I didnt used to mind going through it; but now I just, I cringe to go through there. I feel like Im back when I was on the mainland for 25 years. I thought I came home to get away from this and it has followed me. So, and as far as statistics, according to Rachaels Democracy and Health News, larger stores increase traffic. In recent years number of miles Americans drive to shop has almost doubled. Each shopping trip is two miles longer. And shopping trips, the number grew three times as fast as other trips. And big box stores they take up a lot of land. Theres one scenario where if you want 200,000 square feet of retail space, if you have a single story superstore and a standard 1,000 parking spaces, that takes 20 acres. But if you have two-story downtown buildings and shared parking, its more like 4 acres. Theres a study saying that we are an extremely over-retailed country in the world, we dont need more shopping. The amount of store space per capita has doubled recently in the United States but consumer spending hasnt grown much. So you end up with vacant malls, like the mall we are in right now. Some people have said that amendments are not about Wal-Mart; but you see that the top people in Wal-Mart have taken the time to come. Ive read a book called the Wal-Mart Effect; and there were few studies, it shows that the rate of poverty falls more slowly in counties that have a Wal- mart. It comes out to about 7 more families in poverty per county with Wal-Mart. New Wal-Mart store causes four small businesses to close within 5 years. Five years after a Wal-Mart opens some new jobs are gained but some are lost; and the net gain after 5 years is 30 jobs. Two years after Wal-Mart opens three retailers in the County closed. And when Wal-Mart converts a store to a supercenter with groceries, two existing grocery stores closed. If theres a small town near a big town with a Wal-Mart, almost half the total retail sales are lost, almost half of the mens and boys clothing stores went out of business. In the Wal-Mart town, sales dropped, 5 percent for grocery stores, 14 percent for specialty stores, 18 percent for clothing stores. And service business tends to drop. Its serious that people, its so cheap to buy 20 EXHIBIT B things at Wal-Mart that people just throw the old thing away and then you have the overflowing landfill problem. And also there is a local survey, it was a survey of social indicators which shows that Hawaii County has the lowest personal income and the highest percentage of people on food stamps in the State already. We dont need more bankrupt businesses. We dont need Wal-Mart pushing people into poverty. So I hope you will vote against superstores. WATANABE:Thank you. We have any questions for this testifier? DOMINGO:Mr. Chairman? WATANABE:Mr. Domingo. DOMINGO:Maam,whatsthetitleofthatbook? HARDEN:‚TheWal-MartEffect,ƒanditsintheHiloLibrary. DOMINGO:Andthestatisticsthatyouwerereadingweretakenfromthatbook? HARDEN:Mostofit,yeah. DOMINGO:I see. HARDEN:Yeah, most of them were. Its a very thoughtfully written book. It explains everything. It goes into the study; and I was impressed with how carefully and thoroughly it was done. DOMINGO:It seems like the effect of a store such as Wal-Mart or other stores just as huge as Wal-Mart has garnered the attention of other places throughout the country and its inherent problems that weve often heard of. And it seems because of that, theyve written that book; and I think its a red flag for us to look at. If we, like in our case, since were contemplating adopting the ordinances, Im glad that you brought that up and it certainly will help me make my decision. I appreciate that. ATER:Anna Ater, 324 Lyman Ave in Hilo. My family and I live in Hilo. I am the unit chairperson for Sack €n Save here in Hilo. I am here today because the ILWU Local 142 is strongly opposed to the expansion proposal by supercenters such as Wal-Mart to develop supercenters here on the Big Island. Hilo has always been a small community that prides itself on its neighborliness. We know and support our neighbors. Among our neighbors are Hawaiian grown stores like Sack €n Save, Foodland and Longs Drugs that have been good to our residents, both for the goods they sell at a fair price and the jobs they provide to local people. When Wal-Mart first came to Hilo there were many who had apprehensions about a big box store coming to our small community. We heard about low prices but we also heard about how Wal-Mart had become the richest corporation in the country by driving out its economic 21 EXHIBIT B competition, small mom-and-pop stores who could barely eek out a living but contributed to the economy nonetheless. In the years that Wal-Mart has been on the Big Island, some small stores have gone out of business. While Wal-Mart has also provided jobs and low prices for Big Island residents, the jury is still out on whether the net effect has been good for Hawaii or not. But now the Planning Director proposes to develop a supercenter zoning district that will surely kill off most of the competition. While we cannot fault Hilo residents for patronizing supercenters because of the low prices we also do not want to have the economic community taken over by a huge national corporation that may be more concerned about its profits than the impact it will have on the community it is in. We dont need supercenters in Hilo or on the Big Island. TheILWUstronglyopposesasupercenterzoneandurgesthattheHawaiiCountyPlanning Commission reject that proposal. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions for this testifier? DOMINGO:Just one comment. You said you represent the ILWU? ATER:Right, at my store. DOMINGO:At your store? ATER:Yes. DOMINGO:I see. Would you be aware of approximately how many members there are in the division? ATER:Both two stores its 70, about seven zero. DOMINGO:Im glad that youve taken the initiative to come up and speak -. ATER:Sorry, I was a nervous wreck. DOMINGO:We appreciate that. Just cool off, calm down. You know, normally when you think of unions, labor unions like that, the concentration is on wages, medical, other benefits; and thats where it stops. As far back as I can recall, the ILWU has played a major part in the growth of our state and effectuating certain social revolutions in the past, which has brought about many changes that all the people in the state benefits. And I appreciate you coming and appreciate the union coming up and making such, taking such a position and a stance. Thank you very much. ATER:Thank you. 22 EXHIBIT B WATANABE:Okay, lets go for the next four. I have Craig Nishida, Kale Gumapac, Paul Campbell and Thomas Hilliard. Would you please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. WATANABE:Thank you. Why dont we start with you. NISHIDA:I thank you for letting me speak. My name is Craig Nishida. I live at 91- 2048 Luahoana Street in Ewa Beach. I have testified before the Commission at the Kona meeting. Like I testified at that meeting, my mother is from Kona. And when I was a young boy I always looked forward to summers in Kona because it was so different from Honolulu. It was country and it was a time to run wild and it was great. And why I fly to this island I still enjoy the different pace. Its so laid back, especially here in Hilo, you know. Everything is laid back, includingthesidewalksatnight.But,youknow,itsdifferent.AndIwanttoseetheneighbor islands stay that way. You know, I live in Honolulu, and I have all my life, and I love it there. But I always curse the hour and a half drive to go 20 miles to work, you know. And I dont want to see you folks going through stuff like that. I know you talk about traffic here but why dont you try to live in Honolulu some time. Okay, the other thing was I wanted to talk a little bit about what the Wal-Mart representative said about the use of local suppliers. Now I know this is not about Wal-Mart, but Wal-Mart is the face of superstores and big box. They are the leader and theyre the one that always comes up in any discussion. Wal-Mart has been able to dictate their cost to their suppliers, which is opposite of what had been done before. Theyre monopolizing the market. And, yeah, theyre based in Bettenville, Arkansas but Ill let you folks know their international headquarters is in China, which is their biggest supplier. Theyre going to take over China. And, you know, I hate to see the local farmers here be dictated how much they can sell their produce to Wal-Mart. And then what are they going to do? Make profit? Either theyre going to have to raise the prices to everybody else which will cause all the other businesses to go out of business, or theyre going to sell to everybody at that cheap price. And guess what? There arent going to be farmers any more. Thats all I have to say. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions for this speaker? Okay, thank you. Kale. GUMAPAC:Aloha, my name is Kale Gumapac. I represent the Kanaka Council and I am also a former business owner of Northwestern Christmas Trees. And Northwestern Christmas Trees, we were fortunate to have been in business here in Hilo for about 17 years until Wal-Mart came. I am one of the statistics and one of the fall-out of Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart came in, they brought in lots and lots of Christmas trees of which we know, that I know in talking with all of our suppliers from the Pacific Northwest, what the purchasing prices and the predatory practices at Wal-Mart did on these farmers in the Pacific Northwestern Christmas Trees. They bought the Christmas trees at dirt-cheap prices. They brought the Christmas trees here in Hilo, and at that time I was one of the largest Christmas tree importers and retailers in the State. We were bringing in about 40 containers state-wide. But when Wal-Mart showed up, they came in with all of the cheap pricing that they were able to buy from the Christmas trees growers in the Pacific Northwest. They dropped their prices dramatically so that they used that as a lost leader 23 EXHIBIT B here in Hilo, flooded the market. And if you have bought Christmas trees, once you buy a Christmas tree, youre not going to buy another Christmas tree. And so as a result of that, two straight years we suffered huge losses; and after the second year said thats it. When we lose $50,000 plus a year its pretty hard as a small business person to sustain those kinds of loses. You need to sustain the amendment to ban the superstores. The changes proposed by Planning Director Chris Yuen to set aside a special zoning district is just as threatening to our society and the lifestyle here in Hawaii as it is anywhere. We have to keep Hawaii Hawaii. We dont want to be another Oahu. We already see all the mistakes that Oahu is making. Your responsibility as Planning Commissioners is to make sure that we can maintain this lifestyle. When the superstores start coming in and you allow this to happen the lifestyles of the people of this island will totally change, will totally change. Because now all of the planning that the Puna Planning Development Committee has put together into trying to make regional areas so that we have regional shopping centers so that the people from Puna can go there will now be forced to come tothesuperstore.Thesuperstoreisaconveniencebutitsnotaconvenienceforthepeople.Its a convenience for Wal-Mart. Because that way they can centralize all of their forces and resources and force people to drive in long distances from Puna, from Kau, from Volcano, from Honokaa, as well as in the Hilo area to come. This is totally contrary to the ahupuaa concept, totally contrary to that. And this, we cannot allow this to happen because this will impact our lifestyle. I would also like to remind the Planning Commission on Article 12, Section 7 of the State Constitution that reaffirms the cultural, the traditional and customary impacts of the Kanaka Maoli. This superstore will invariably have a huge negative impact on our farmers, on our lawai€afishermen), as well as the people that work around the area. Look at the gas prices, look ( at whats going to happen if people have got to drive far. Think of the ahupuaa concept so that we can try. The best thing that you can do is to sustain this bill and to get Wal-Mart to build little stores in these different areas. Now if they did that, we can kako€o that, we would support that, okay, if they made it a regional thing. So that if they wanted to be good neighbors this is the way for them to be good neighbors. Because now all the other stores, everybody else can also compete with them. To me, thats the right solution. Mahalo. WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions for this testifier? Yes, Mr. Domingo. DOMINGO:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Kale, I disagree with you on your last statement. What they can do is build a huge warehouse and from that area, every time or when required they can just take it from the warehouse and go to those small little stores and stock it, and youll face the same problem. GUMAPAC:Youre right, right. I forgot about that warehouse. I take that statement back. DOMINGO:Okay, you take that back and I -. GUMAPAC:I not one Planning Commissioner so I can take that statement back. DOMINGO:You take that back and I agree with your statement. 24 EXHIBIT B GUMAPAC:Okay, I take it back. DOMINGO:You know, another statement that you made to which I agree is that they force us to travel far distances to go to theirstore. I think good sound planning dictates now, especially in this very time, in this day and age, where you try to minimize traveling, the use of vehicles to do your business or to go to work and everything. You know, you try to minimize that because of the cost of the fuel and everything else. And thats one of my concerns. Because what it does, it causes us to have to travel far distances to go do our shopping. And like I said, a good planning practice is to have your village or your town in one area with your markets, your school, etc. within that development where you dont have to travel far to go to school or go to shopping or just to enjoy yourself with the social programs. So I agree with what you said. GUMAPAC:You know, Taka, thats the ideal situation, especially for this island, especiallyhowbigtheislandis.And,again,weneedtobuildcommunities;anditsnecessary not only to build the communities but also to offer a place for the kids to be able to go to, rather than having the kids all being forced to go to this one big huge location, and you never know whats going to happen. And we also have to reinforce the ohana values; and the ohana values is very difficult when youre having to deal with these big superstores. And it becomes so impersonal, very impersonal; and you dont even know who youre dealing with. Whereas if you stay with the ahupuaa concept you know your friends, you know your family, and the people that youre doing business with, you know them. And this is so important when we can see, when we can smell, when we can hear and when we can touch our people. WATANABE:Okay, thank you. CAMPBELL:I am Paul Campbell. I live at 13-1342 Malama in Leilani Estates. I am Chair of the Sierra Club and represent approximately 975 members on this island. Superstores on an island are just bad urban planning, period. Weve already established that theyve been shown to produce much more traffic than any other type of retail use. Can we handle any more traffic here or in Kona, especially in Kona? And I wont say the ‚Wƒ word once, I promise. If superstores drive out other businesses as theyve been known to do, then everyone has to drive all the way to the superstore to do their shopping, as has been pointed out. They have to drive further, clog up one area. Thats poor planning. The whole thing flies in the face of the community development process that weve been in and the establishment of the General Plan. Local businesses, it destroys our sense of place. It destroys our sense of culture, of continuity. People come to the Big Island both to visit and live here because of the rural atmosphere. If the local businesses cant survive, Hawaii Island will lose a great deal of what makes it special. Kauai is on the verge, as Mr. Yuen said, of passing a big box store ban bill, and this is to keep stores or businesses from becoming too centralized; and thats what were trying to get away from. Were trying to get the community hubs. Since they put the Malama Market and the whole little shopping center near Pahoa, hey, its wonderful. I come to Hilo maybe twice a month now. Local businesses are owned by local families. Money spent in local stores stays in the economy here. It pays their rent, it pays their mortgage, it pays their food. When only one or two large superstores thrive the money spent here leaves Hawaii, period. I spent most of yesterday calling local farmers from the list I got from HOFA. I called several dozen farmers, I talked to them. Thank you Mr. Ha for coming, I really appreciate it. And you 25 EXHIBIT B should probably receive a lot of testimony from small farmers too, and other small business people. Local businesses contribute a far greater percentage of their profits to local causes. They have a direct connection with the local people. They know the problems and they know what needs to be done. While some of the larger corporations contribute more in dollars they do not give anywhere near the same percentage nor with the same aloha spirit. Where will the workforce come from initially for these supercenters? There arent enough people already to work here. We already have jobs going crying. Superstores are different from other large retails. Twice the size of existing Wal-Mart, I would say a 260,000 square foot supercenter, full- on supercenter, is the size of the super dome. And Im not just talking about the football field, Im talking the whole super dome. Many people on the island that Ive talked to dont really have a frame of reference of what these supercenters look like. You go to Las Vegas, Nevada, you see these supercenters with not just parking lots but RV Centers that you can camp and shop at super box stores any day 24/7, you know, you just camp out there. Superstores draw traffic from a much larger radius, as has been pointed out; and so again the concept of centralization is throwninourfacewhenweretryingtogetawayfromthat. InconclusionIwouldsaythatMokuLoaGroup,SierrraClubHawaii,standsinfavorofbanning big box stores on this island. It is not conducive to our island lifestyle. And we also oppose any legislation that would create special zoning for these stores because that would essentially establish the same situation that were trying to avoid. Mahalo and aloha. WATANABE:Are there any questions for the testifier? DOMINGO:Id just like to thank you for the fine planning principles that youve mentioned, we appreciate that. CAMPBELL:Thank you. HILLIARD:My name is Thomas Hilliard. My address is RR2, Box 6258, Pahoa. And Im coming here just as a citizen and a family man, a long-term resident. Ive lived here for 34 years. I lived in Hilo a very long time ago, 30 years ago. Ive seen Hilo go from what it was then, which was very quiet. I think there might have been one stop light. In any case, Ive been reading letters in the paper and I noticed some of the letters are saying people want the big box because theyre crying about high prices. So I started thinking about that and I realized that the stores that supply us locally, while they may sometimes have prices which are a bit higher, theyre not actually really high. People dont understand that. But all of that money that they bring in is then distributed all the way down through our local community because they have their debts to pay, they have all their employees to pay. So, really, I think that the people who want the savings are being very selfish because theyre not realizing that actually its their neighbors theyre paying that what they complain about the greater price to. The local business is the heart of Hawaii, really. Its true. And one business I want to mention is KTA. KTA is the most exceptional store I have ever shopped in, the Hilo Store particularly. The people there are absolutely friendly and incredibly helpful. They remodeled the store, as many of you know a couple of years back, and they did a beautiful job. Its clean, its tidy. They have many, many things for sale. Its nothing like a big box store, but they still have tried to service the community. And I think theyre doing an incredible job. And I think that they will grow if we allow them. I understood that they planned 26 EXHIBIT B to create a store at Shipman Industrial, I had heard that. Maybe I would be wrong. But should, for instance, a big box store be created, I dont think they might, they might not be able to do that. That might shoot them down. That would be, in my opinion, very sad. And I feel very strongly with Mr. Gumapac. I like the things that he says very much. I would say that a lot of what he says really he speaks for where I feel as well. And, also, the tomato farmer, Im forgetting his name now. WATANABE:Mr. Ha. HILLIARD:Yes. His point is well taken, especially when we consider that if what he says about farmers is true, what about all the other avenues of business? What about the other things that are related in the retail areas as well? So I think that as an island we really are in a position where its utterly crucial. If the supply were cut from the mainland and we were dealing with the large suppliers, they wont provide us with anything cause theyll be cut off. Whereas, localbusinesspeoplewouldbeabletoatleastprovideuswithmore.And,moreimportantly,the dollars would stay here in our community. I really believe this, that the money we spend locally is distributed locally. People buy cars here, their loans are with local banks, etc., etc. And so to sum it up, Im in favor of Higas resolution to, or his effort to ban the big box stores; and I am actually really against any proposition that would allow them, including the zoning effort that Mr. Yuen has suggested. WATANABE:Thank you. HILLIARD:Thank you very much. WATANABE:Do we have any questions for this testifier? No. Well, thank you. Okay. HILLIARD:Bye guys. WATANABE:I have two names. I dont think these people are here. But just for the record, Doug Arnott? I dont believe hes here any more. And Francis Benevides, is he here? PUBLIC:He left. WATANABE:No. Okay, then, weve had quite a bit of testimony. Once again Id like to entertain a motion to close the public hearing, please, before we go forward. DOMINGO:Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the public hearing. SIRACUSA:Second. WATANABE:All those in favor, aye? COMMISSIONERS:Aye. WATANABE:Any opposed? Okay, now I guess we should take this one by one since the Planning Director corrected me and indicated that we will be taking up his version of the 27 EXHIBIT B amendment to Chapter 25 at our next Kona meeting. So the Chair would entertain a motion on the County Council-initiated amendment to Chapter 25 which bans superstores. SIRACUSA:Ill make that motion. I move that we send a favorable recommendation to the County Council on their resolution to ban superstores. WATANABE:Theres a second? DOMINGO:Second. WATANABE:Okay, theres a second. Any discussion on this? Mr. Woodward. WOODWARD:Regardless of where you fall in the emotional spectrum, and this is an emotional issue, as I mentioned before, this is flawed legislation; and it doesnt have a prayer of workingasitsdrafted.RegardlessofthequestionofautonomyfortheHawaiianHomeLands issue which is where the Wal-Mart superstore is designed to go, again, as I said, you have to satisfy three criteria to be counted as a superstore, over 90,000 square feet, 25,000 storekeeping items, and 20,000 feet of grocery space. And the loopholes are incredible. So I cant support legislation, that even though, you know, emotionally maybe thats the right thing to do. Legally, this thing doesnt have a prayer. WATANABE:Any other comments from the Commissioners? Mr. Domingo. DOMINGO:I appreciate the fact that Commissioner Woodward had expressed his concern, and perhaps in a way I agree with him. But if we were to send up an approval on this with a notation and even with the transcript of this hearing for the Council, they can look at it and make the necessary changes to make it comply or to make it enforceable, as we put it, so that there would be, in effect, a ban on all superstores. I dont see that its a real problem. WATANABE:Thank you. Are there any other Commissioners whod like to chime in? SIRACUSA:Yes. WATANABE:Yes, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Well, I made the motion so Id like to explain what I was thinking in terms of making that motion. You know, several of the letters that we got that were in support of superstores said that these are people on low income and theyre looking for the lower prices and that we couldnt possibly understand what it was like to live on a limited income. And I read that line, and I though, huh, you know, theyre probably making more money than I am. I look for the bargains because I have a limited income. And superstores are not necessarily cheaper than our local stores. I know for sure that I can buy dog food and cat food, the large sized bags, cheaper at KTA then I can at Wal-Mart. And Im sure that theres a lot of other products that if you look at, you know, Wal-Mart is not cheaper. And yet even though Wal-Mart is a big box but not a superstore, they still have right now, that bulk buying power of a National chain. And that bulk buying power makes it absolutely impossible for there to be the so-called fair competition and the so-called touted free competition because its neither fair nor free. It is not a level playing field. 28 EXHIBIT B Theres another issue which is definitely a land use issue which no one but myself seems to have brought up in the past regarding superstores, and that is that superstores require super parking lots. And yet our Landscaping Rule 17 does not address in any way the special needs for landscaping, that would be necessary in order to mitigate the negative impacts of the needs for shade, the needs for greenery to absorb smell from car fumes and clean the air. Our Rule 17 doesnt address that. And so, therefore, we would end up creating concrete deserts, asphalt deserts, with absolutely no permeability. The rain would fall as it does in Hilo, and it would not sink down and go into the water table where it could recharge our aquifer. It would just go down into the storm drains where it would rush out to the ocean, and where all of that petroleum residues from all of those cars would go out into the water. And so I do not believe that superstores are environmentally beneficial or a good land use. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Well, Im going to chime in. This reminds a lot of when CostcowasgoingtofirstopenupinKona.AndbeinginfinancemostofmyadultlifeIwas concerned about the small business owners. But, you know, in reality, I see now a lot of the small business owners are buying their inventory from the Costco. Im a member of Costco but I dont do a lot of shopping at Costco. I still shop at Safeway and some of the smaller stores because I dont like to stand in long lines and I dont necessarily want to buy in huge bulk. So to me its a matter of choice. Where I have the biggest problem with the proposed legislation from the Council is that its trying to limit choices. And I think you people, if you dont like the Wal-Mart superstores, dont participate, dont patronize them. They wont come or they wont last. And from the very start I had a real problem with the definition of a superstore and how easy it is to get around that definition. So I really cant vote in support of that bill. So are there any other-? Does anyone else want to make any other comments? Call for the question. Mr. Darrow? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion before us is to send a favorable recommendation to the Hawaii County Council. With that Ill take the roll. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Ogata? OGATA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Rho? RHO:Aye. 29 EXHIBIT B DARROW:Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD:Nay. DARROWAnd Mr. Chairman? WATANABE:Nay. DARROW:The motion does not pass, four to two. WATANABE:With that, I guess were going to be discussing the Directors version at the next meeting. The discussion ended at 4:16 p.m. Respectfully submitted, SharonM.Nomura,EastHawaiiSecretary 30 EXHIBIT B