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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-07-15 GOLDING PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 15, 2005 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of GARY & CRISSY GOLDING (SPP 05- was called to order at 9:50 a.m. in the King Kamehameha's Kona Beach Hotel, Ekahi 011) Ballroom, 75-5660 Palani Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii, with Vice Chairperson Hannah Springer presiding. PRESENT:Hannah Springer (left at noon)ABSENT & EXCUSED: Fred Galdones Jeffrey McCallC. Kimo Alameda Rene€ Siracusa AndrewIwashita Allen Salavea William R. Graham (Chairman Pro tem at noon) Rodney H. Watanabe Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Chris Yuen, Deputy Planning Director Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner Kiran Emler representing Department of Public Works And approximately 17 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANTS: GARY & CRISSY GOLDING (SPP 05-011) Application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a mixed use light industrial- commercial project with residential and agricultural facilities for wholesale/retail and office rental space, a hostel with overnight camping, and gathering places for organizations and community groups on 4.07 acres situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located along the mauka side of the Hawaii Belt Road (Highway 11), between Highway 11 and Moana Drive and approximately 790 feet west of the Highway 11 ƒ King Kamehameha Boulevard intersection, Hawaiian Ocean View Estates Subdivision, Kahuku, Ka€u, Hawai i, TMK: 9-2-85: 24 and 30. SPRINGER:We€re now on agenda item number 4. The applicants are Gary and Crissy Golding, Special Permit 05-011. This is an application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a mixed use light industrial-commercial project with residential and agricultural facilities for wholesale/retail and office rental space, a hostel with overnight camping, and gathering places for organizations and community groups on 4.07 acres situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located along the mauka side of the Hawaii Belt Road, Highway 11, between Highway 11 and Moana Drive and approximately 790 feet west of the Highway 11 ƒ King Kamehameha Boulevard intersection, Hawaiian Ocean View Estates Subdivision, Kahuku, Ka€u, Hawaii, TMK: 9-2-85: 24 and 30. Mr. Darrow. EXHIBIT B 1 DARROW:Thank you Madam Chair. If I may direct the Commissioners€ attention to the location map. The area of this application is within the Ka€u District of Hawai i, more specifically in the Hawaiian Ocean View Estates Subdivision. This blue line, blue and white line travelling in a east-west direction is the Hawaii Belt Road, Highway 11. As you can see there have been numerous special permits approved by all the red dots that you see on the map. The area that we€re looking at more specifically for this application is identified in blue. This is located on Highway 11 as well as on Moana Drive. The applicants in this case Gary and Crissy Golding are requesting a special permit to allow the establishment of a mixed use, light industrial commercial project with residential and agricultural facilities for wholesale, retail and office rental space, a hostel with overnight camping and gathering places for organizations and community groups on 4.07 acres of land. According to the applicants the complete project becomes an interactive engagement park for the whole community promoting the concepts of environmentally, responsible commerce and aiding the activities programs and projects designed to help people achieve sustainable environmental health with nature and society. The developmentwillconsistofthefollowing.Therearetwoparcelsidentifiedaslot5aaswellas lot 7a. These have been consolidated. They were 4 parcels now there are 2 parcels. On lot 5a this includes several structures. The applicants are proposing to do this development within phases. Phase 1 will include the applicant€s residence, gallery and store identified by the letter S. This has been identified as phase 1 in the application and it is also addressed in the conditions that phase 1 will be done according to the applicants and will be completed first. Condition that deals with this is Condition number 3. It also states that any additional phases need not be conducted in chronological order, they can be done in any type of order after that. a condition that this particular phase be constructed first. On lot 5a we have building S, which is identified as the applicant€s residence, gallery and store. We have building M which is identified as a catering kitchen, a area for caf± tables, decks for meeting places as well as a restroom and other types of uses. Buildings A and B are proposed by the applicants to be office and meeting space type areas and also rental space type areas within these 2 structures. They also propose a future possible building C, which will also be used- similar types of uses. Looking at lot 7a again we have the structures and areas identified in letters, more importantly structure L1 which is the hostel and lodge area. It is a large structure identified in the application as approximately 7,000 square feet in size. We have structures P1 and P2, which will be used mainly for maintenance type of structures as well as restrooms. L2 is the area identified in the application as containing the hale overnight camping area. Each one of the hales are identified, outlined in purple small hale-type structures there, it looks there€s approximately 12 of them. To my left is a map identifying what they look like as far as elevations and what they appear to be as after they are constructed. The conditions to mention: Condition number 2, similar in the Patrick application, the Planning Director is recommending that the type and scale of the activities and the physical improvements to the properties shall be done in substantial conformance to the description in the application. So again, later in the future if this were to change hands it wouldn€t become something entirely different. I mentioned earlier Condition 3 states that phase 1 shall be constructed first and all other phases can be done in any type of chronological order. Condition 4 limits the size of certain structures as well as the amount of beds within the hostel and lodge area and on the facility, the facility not having more than 40 beds. Condition number 6 states that no commercial retail store is permitted other than the sale of items produced on the premises. Condition number 8 limits the amount of signs, one per roadway frontage. So we have Highway 11 here, there will be one sign allowed here as well as one sign along Moana EXHIBIT B 2 Drive. I should also mention that the next condition, access shall be limited to Moana Drive. Access from the Highway is prohibited. The Director is requesting that a condition be placed in here that has a 10-foot wide planting screen easement and that access again is prohibited. This was also requested by comments from the Department of Transportation. Lastly, Condition number 11 states that the use of amplified devices for speech and music shall be prohibited on the project site. The Planning Director is recommending that the gallery and workspace area and the commercial sale of items produced on the premises associated with the applicant€s residence building S as well as the hostel, lodge, associated gathering facilities and related restrooms and maintenance facilities more specifically buildings L1, M, P1 and P2 be approved by the Planning Commission. The Planning Director is also recommending that the request for additional workspace areas, offices and rental spaces, buildings A, B and the future building C as well as the area the hale overnight camping area identified by L2 be denied by the Planning Commission. We€ve received numerous letters within the application and petitions in support of this project. Are there any questions? SPRINGER:Commissioners any questions for Mr. Darrow? Seeing none. Will the applicantortheirrepresentativepleasecomeforward?GoodMorning.Willtheapplicantand their representative and all those who signed up to testify or wishing to testify please raise your right hands at this time so that I may swear you in. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. SPRINGER:Thank you all. As you provide testimony please state your name, your residence address and then you may proceed. Beginning with you sir on my far left. ROLAND:Good morning everybody. SPRINGER:Good morning. ROLAND:Madam Chairman, this is-? SPRINGER:Your name and address please? ROLAND:Yeah. This is a very important event for us so. I live in Ocean View at King Kam and Coral. My mailing address is 6849 Ocean View. SPRINGER:And you are? ROLAND:And my name is Ralph Roland. SPRINGER:Could you repeat that please? ROLAND:My name is Ralph Roland. SPRINGER: Thank you Mr. Roland. EXHIBIT B 3 GOLDING:Good morning. Gary Golding, PO Box 1107, Naalehu, 96772. SPRINGER:Thank you. Ma€am. GOLDING:Good morning. Crissy Wright Golding. 1107 PO Box, Naalehu, 96772. SPRINGER:Thank you. Have you received the Planning Department€s Background Report and Recommendation? ROLAND:Yes we have. SPRINGER:Do you have any comments to make at this time Mr. Roland? ROLAND:WellI-Iwouldhopewe€dbeabletodiscusssomeoftheitemsinthe recommendation and the background report. Up to the limit of your indulgence. SPRINGER:Please proceed. ROLAND:Okay. If I just take it from the very top and go through it it€d probably be more systematic. In the very first paragraph after approvals building L3 is not identified in either the denial or the approval and I would assume that should be clarified. SPRINGER:Sir could you please tell us what document you€re looking at, what page you€re looking on the document. ROLAND:Oh, okay I€m sorry. This is the recommendation of the Director. SPRINGER:Okay and are you on the first page? ROLAND:I€m on the first page, first paragraph and he identifies the buildings that he is recommending approval for and then proceeds with the ones that he lists that he wants to deny and the L3 which is a pavilion isn€t included in that so just as a point that should be clarified. SPRINGER:Okay, Mr. Director should that be then included in the list? YUEN:L3 is a denial. L3 is the restroom, shower and locker facility for the people staying in the camping area. DARROW:The question was whether or not that was directly related to L2 or if it was something that was placed here in as a general bathroom facility for people on the grounds. So at this time it was going to be requested for clarification if this is an accessory directly to the hale overnight facility or if it was for the overall facility. YUEN:If it fits in with the overall facility aside from the camping area which we are recommending denial then the Department has no problem with that building going in. EXHIBIT B 4 SPRINGER:Mr. Roland? ROLAND:Okay. I understand that. Then we should just follow up that we€re requesting the facility to be an over and out camping as opposed to just day camping. And it seems that the problem with the overnight camping is the hale Hawaiian type structures with grass roofs. And the programs that we would like include and that would utilize the project if we can€t have Hawaiian structures we would still like to have an overnight camping component as part of the operation. And the area is sort of isolated by itself in a very nice spot. And it€s very conducive to overnight camping and I don€t know of any overnight camping facilities that approaches what we want to do or exist but I understand that we would be allowed day camping. So we€re asking for overnight camping in some form or another if we€re not able to build structures there. And I don€t know if that is in the Planning Director€s mind or whether he€s considered that aspect or not. SPRINGER:Mr. Director can you respond to the request by the applicant? YUEN:We looked at the request for camping in the hales and it was pretty clear thatitwasn€tgoingtopassbuildingandfirecoderequirements.Thosekindsofstructuresasa permanent structure for people to stay in overnight. So it was pretty easy to recommend denial of that. I€m not ready to accept a special permit for overnight camping. At this point I€m still recommending denial on strictly an overnight camping area. And it raises a question of what kind of tourist economy you€re going to have. And so that€s and that€s the basic reason for recommending denial at this point. If you were just talking about say having a lawn where people had tents and you would have a facility. I guess you still have a bathroom facility for them but then I would still recommend denial on that. You can still request it I€m just making a recommendation. You can try to make your case to the Commission but that would be my recommendation. SPRINGER:Do you have any follow-up on that Mr. Roland? ROLAND:Okay thank you. Well, we would hope that maybe the Planning Commission would be, have greater latitudes in that regard. Because we€re going to have a lodge where there€ll be various groups coming that will be controlled groups that will be interacting with a National Park and other wilderness areas. And as a matter of economics to make things affordable and available for young people and so forth we would like to on occasion not like an ongoing thing or for something to the public. We would like to have that as an aspect of what we€re doing. And, the site is really quite appropriate for it so it had suggested it to us initially and that grew within our thinking. And so we€re hoping that somehow miraculously we will be able to provide some of that. SPRINGER:Thank you before we continue on through the recommendation sheet, Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes I have some other, I had some confusion about calling these hales permanent structures because it is my understanding that the pili grass has to be changed every EXHIBIT B 5 couple of years; and therefore the question whether it is a permanent structure at all falling under the building code is a big question in my mind. I know that the building code is undergoing revision at this point. I don€t know if the question of hales is included in that as far as the discussion goes. It seems to me that people have been living in them permanently all around the Pacific for a long, long time and doing so quite successfully. And so I really have trouble you know understanding why this should not be allowed especially since we€re looking at overnight camping as opposed to someone residing there on a permanent basis, which they would not be able to do anyway because they would have to be redone every couple of years in any event. So I was wondering if the Director would care to comment on that? SPRINGER:Director Yuen do you have- YUEN:Currently under the building code thatched roofs are permitted only in resort zones. And we haven€t permitted any for human occupancy. There are some thatched roofbuildingsinresortareasthatareguardshacktypebuildingsorcanoeshedsorthatsortof thing. The safety aspect from a fire standpoint of people staying in a thatched building is the same whether it€s a person- a different person every night or one person who lives there continually. It€s probably less safe for a person who just comes once in a while. So, rather than pass a special permit that leads somebody to a dead end on the building code side, we were recommending against that. It will not meet building or fire code for human occupancy. As far as the temporary building- a temporary building. You can get a temporary building permit but it€s only a 30-day, it€s only good for 30 days. So that€s the limit on a temporary building. And this would be as something that is designed to be there permanently even if the roof has to be replaced every couple of years it would still count as a full building. So given and putting aside the question of simply having a camping area where people bring their own tents for example an camp. We would not recommend approving a special permit for people staying in structures that can€t pass fire code. SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa any follow-up? SIRACUSA:But you€re also saying that even if they were to put up little wooden cabins say little one room wooden cabins like they have up at Pohakuloa and places like that you still wouldn€t want to do that because you don€t want to encourage overnight camping at that location is that correct? YUEN:No, we approved the application for a hostel. We didn€t have an application for people- for some kind of minimal cottage. I don€t think we would have a problem with that subject to an overall limit. We€ve been holding a 40-unit limit on special permits for overnight accommodation. We have an application for- we€re dealing with an application for a hostel which was in a building and an application for essentially camping but people staying in these lean to type thatched roof structures that was the application and we denied that part of the application. If we had had an application for- if the hostel had been a bunch of cottages we probably would have approved the cottages subject to an overall limit. SIRACUSA:Thank you. EXHIBIT B 6 SPRINGER:Other Commissioners? YUEN:You know and that€s you know that€s a building that we were talking about them putting up a building that does meet building and fire codes. Itmay be small, it may be simple but it would meet those codes. SPRINGER:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:I just want to address this to Mr. Roland. I€m sort of assuming that you probably coming in front of us and you€re not sure what we€re thinking or where our concerns are and all that. ROLAND:I have not a clue. GRAHAM:So,Iwantedtojustonlyspeakingformyselfjusttrytogiveyoualittle feel for what€s going on so that you can address yourself appropriately and all. It seems like almost all the special permits that we deal with are sort of what I would call more tight. Like the one we just had before about this Morihara Store. In other words they deal with a more specific you know single activity or-. Whereas yours both in terms of scope of what€s going on like a gallery, a catering facility, overnight camping, office space and all. Even though you write in your speaking part here is what it feels to me you know your philosophy and all that stuff you kind of pull it together with your philosophy. To me looking at what€s going in on the ground doesn€t pull together so much for me. It seems like somewhat disparate things and I don€t think there€s anything in the law about special permits that says that€s not okay. I€m just saying it€s very much against the grain of how we usually see special permit requests. And then on the time side where you€re saying well maybe in 10 years we€ll do some more that also will complete parts of it in 10 years, that feels to me more like the you know theoretical what we might like to do kind of stuff. And again that€s a little contrary to what I feel we usually run into where somebody has a specific thing we€re going to do this and we€re ready to do it and all. So I, so my kind of resistant side or uncomfortable on this side with what€s going on has to do with both of those aspects. So I just wanted to put that forward to you so you can keep that in mind as you go forward. SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner Graham. Mr. Roland? ROLAND:Maybe I could address that a little bit. In Ocean View there are a lot people living there that have to commute and they have a lifestyle that is quite different than Kona or Hilo and the community is in the throws of change quite rapid change now. And there€s not really much there that is available to people that want to do things. There€s not any places for people to rent to set up a small shop or a work facility of any kind and there€s no real meeting places. Even though we have a community hall there€s a lot of politics involved there and a lot of controls and restrictions and a lot of people have been alienated for one reason or another. So as a community we don€t have a center, we don€t have a place where we can interact in a positive sense and develop some sort of a consensus where we€re going and how we€re going to go together, because there€s a lot of things at stake and there€s a lot involved on a lot of levels. And the Goldings want to open up their own business and they also want to do something that€s really EXHIBIT B 7 germane and important to the community and where they see some real needs, and we don€t see anybody else about to address any of these needs. And what we€re proposing is really in response to a reality that does exist there. So, if it seemsa little large or a little scattered in its concepts basically we went and talked with the Planning Department about the project when they had acquired 2 acres and were planning to open their own store and do something else for the community at the same time. And, then they found out the next 2 lots were available, and through that process of discussing what we wanted to do we really felt we didn€t have enough space to do it on the 2 acres. And so the Planning Department recommended that once they had completed the purchasing of the other parcels and had done the lot consolidation then we combine it all together and submit it one time. And, it really did make sense to do that and it actually helped us develop a better project. But, in doing all that it€s been 2 years from the very beginning to now to put this all together, and a lot of thought has gone into it. And if you put us in the context of other places and other circumstances and all the code requirements that are usually applied to these situations you won€t be seeing the reality as we see it in the community. You€llbeseeingthevariousaspectsthatyouhavetodealwithlegallyandorappointedtodo. But basically we are asking for the opportunity to develop something that€s really meaningful for the community and it has a lot of different aspects and phases to it because the needs in the community are very diverse and great. So I think if you put us in the right context we€re more understandable. And I think we can jump through a few of the hurdles I think maybe we can surmount the fire department€s requirements. Or we can help evolve within the next 5 years evolve some process where we could actually do the type of structures we would like to see. Cause this would be a beautiful spot for it and people would respond to that and would help the programs that we were going to be running. So we have reasons, they€re not just casual reasons; and I was hoping maybe if we just had the approval of allowing overnight camping in a situation where we would be allowed day camping that didn€t seem like a great stretch to me. And then maybe if you don€t close the door completely on Hawaiian type structures maybe we can deal with this in a reasonable amount of time. That€s about all I can add to that. Thank you. SPRINGER:Commissioners before we go on to Mr. Golding are there any questions for Mr. Roland? YUEN:I€m not sure that Mr. Roland. I think it would be useful if he went through all of the concerns that he has with the recommendations so that you have everything on the table that they might be uncomfortable with. SPRINGER:Okay. Maybe Mr.Golding did you have something that you wanted to interject at this time then? GOLDING, G.:Yes. Just so the Commission understands our location also is, to the south of this area up there is the National Park that just came in and it will be years before they have any facilities for the type of things we€re proposing; and I just wanted to point you that out. That our location and we€ve been talking with the National Park as to let some of our project that also is that directed toward the National Park facilities. GOLDING, C.:And I€d like to say something. EXHIBIT B 8 SPRINGER:Mrs. Golding. GOLDING, C.:Yes. About the camping. One of the reasons that we wanted to make a group type of camping, it would be groups that€s coming in, natural groups, YWCA, YMCA th children. I was raised on Oahu and in 4 grade we came to the Big Island as Hawaiiana and raised money to stay in the Uncle Billy€s hotel or wherever and did hula for Uncle Billy€s. But, there aren€t too many facilities where a group of kids or naturalists are going to come and stay together in a inexpensive way and then experience the land instead of in a cement building. So that was the purpose of doing a in-hostel and then an outside camping just to make it inexpensive for groups to come learn and study. SPRINGER:Thank you ma€am. Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:This would be addressed to either one of you. But in terms of your finances as well as the chronology what portion of this vision you anticipated to build out first, where does the camping fall into that? Was that first or last or in the middle somewhere? GOLDING, G.:Basically our, we were starting off with the store and our residence and the camping is a thing that-. That area that we showed for the camping is all a€a and we tend to keep it that way with little spaces for camping only with trails. So that would be a on going thing duringtheprojectprobablyaswewouldgoon.Itwouldn€tbeathingthat-ourmaingoalisthe main building to get started. WATANABE:So so then- GOLDING, C.:Be toward the end. WATANABE:You possibly would be open to reapplying for it at a later date cause I believe the Director€s recommendations would allow you to proceed with your initial plans right? GOLDING, G.:Well, we did go and our recommendations were to present it all at once to see what we could get and that€s what we€re doing now. SPRINGER:Thank you Mr. Golding. Other Commissioners any questions before we continue on with Mr. Roland? Thank you. Mr. Roland. ROLAND:Yes I think that maybe I€ll just go through it and see if some of the comments that I have here-. On the third page when we get down to item B when you get to the Director€s evaluation it says the desired use will have adverse effects surrounding properties-the desired use would adversely affect surrounding properties. From our point of view in Ocean View it€s hard to see that. There would be far more benefits than any adverse effects and we€re hoping to enhance the property significantly. So there€s not, it€s a relatively undeveloped or sparsely developed area and we would be doing our development in advance of other development and possibly would have a positive influence in the area. But that€s open into interpretation I believe. And then the noise impact aspects, which is further down. We have to EXHIBIT B 9 use amplification here to hear each other. And prior to their acquiring the property there was a Southcoast Bar right adjacent that had burned down and evidently that is going to raise again from the ashes. And we€ll have to contend with whatever noise factors that will create and hopefully we€ll be able to inhibit some of the noise factors that used to be rampant in the neighborhood when they did exist. So, we are planning something that is quite quiet but we want to be in the normal range of a sound activities. We don€t want to not be able to use public address systems in a balanced way. Maybe there€s a way of determining the amount of decibels that we would be permitted to use, because not being able to use electronic equipment to some extent it€d be quite restrictive and inhibit the programs that are planned. We€re not planning rock group concerts or casual entertainment. We will have whatever the community really wants. And we€re pretty good neighbors. And we know a lot of people in the neighborhood and we wouldn€t want to offend those people on any regular basis. So, I don€t know how you would want to address that but I think just shutting the door on public address and so forth seems a bit severe. Do you want me to continue on? Okay. And then we get to the issue of the highway access,whichwouldbeabighurdleforyoutoleapoverwithus.Butwe€rethinkinginfairly long terms and the community is changing quite at a rapid rate and there is nothing there in the community like what we will be providing, and those things that we will be providing are really needed and wanted in the community. We don€t have a township and we don€t have- we have a bedroom community or we have people living and working out of their houses and subsistence exists and we have people doing all kinds of things in Ocean View. And there is no central magnet for interaction. So as the park develops it needs the support of the community and we become more of a gateway community. Our role may evolve to where we would like it to go, which would really be in the public interest. And so at this point we€re just asking don€t close the door on that possibility and let the State Highway determine at the point that they would consider highway access. And in the meantime we would like to be able to have our fire lane go from street to street with a locked gate and leave it that way until we have proved ourselves to be of sufficient importance in serving the community that the highway would entertain some form of access. This is a leap that would take some thinking I€m sure. But we€re thinking in terms of very long term planning; and if you put a restriction on it at this stage the highway is not going to give us access until we are developed and have proved our role in the community. And whether they would give it then or not is still questionable but the possibility does exist. That could evolve and if it does it would be in the public interest to do so. Where now it appears that it does not, so I don€t know if you have to make a determination or not on that matter because the highway is not going to give us access. But if you leave the issue of the fire lane and the future highway access to the Departments that are concerned we will have to conform to what they would require. SPRINGER:Thank you Mr. Roland. Commissioner Siracusa you have some questions at this time? SIRACUSA:Yes. One thing about the highway it€s right, the highway belongs to the State, it€s not our highway. If they say no access then we don€t have any say in that really except to put it as a condition of the permit. So, you€re really trying to convince the wrong body as far as that goes. As far as the noise impact to prohibit the use of amplification devices completely. All right here, we€re using them right now, I€m speaking into an amplification device right and so is Mr. Roland and I was having extreme trouble hearing him or understanding what he was EXHIBIT B 10 saying even with an amplification device-. And possibly if we amend that to say that amplification devices shall be limited to the point where the sound is not heard outside the room. So a lot of times there are meetings going on. I know I have organizations that I go to that has a lot of senior citizens who are hard of hearing and they always have trouble when these groups have to use, the Chair has to use a microphone so those senior citizens can understand what€s going on. So I would like to recommend that instead of prohibiting amplification devices entirely that we just state that the sound from such devices not be so loud as to escape the confines of the room in question that€s being used. Would you have any problems with that Mr. Yuen? YUEN:I- no I don€t. There may be- we can work on a wording for that-. SIRACUSA:Thank you. YUEN:-thataccomplishessomethinglikethat.Thatsaysthisshallnotbeaudible beyond the- unless it€s- audible- can be used unless it€s audible beyond the property line. It really- it doesn€t have to be confined to the room but this is something that€s been a concern for people in neighborhoods of facilities that have special events. SIRACUSA:Yeah and I can see that. I certainly wouldn€t want to have it coming from a neighboring property when I€m trying to get some rest. But I€m looking for a way that we can- that they can have their meetings and at the same time it not disturb anyone else. I had a question for Mr. Roland. What is your affiliation with this? You€re not one of the owners, you€re not a Golding, are you the consultant or the architect or who are you? ROLAND:Well, I got involved in this because I€m a friend of Crissy€s mother. And I have a design, architectural design background and I€ve worked on many major projects in my earlier years. I€m into forced retirement so I€m coming out of retirement to help them with this project and hopefully I will have a place in this as a consequence. So we€re working very closely together and I€ve been through this process before somewhat successfully so I don€t have much experience in it but I am not completely intimidated by it. So, I€m here just to help through, it€s a very complicated process to go through and especially plan for it. And we had to go through this in sort of a fog because the General Plan was up in the air for so long and went through so many different changes and it€s really hard to determine what the latitudes are you know. SIRACUSA:One more thing. I notice that you folks set up a whole display there and I was wondering did you want to point certain things out to us or was that just an exercise in-? ROLAND:Yeah I would like to. I put this up to support the extreme request that we are making. And, the model over here I think if you look at it a lot of these buildings don€t have such a large footprint in the- they, some of them are multi-split level structures. You want me to go over there? DARROW:We can bring it over here. EXHIBIT B 11 ROLAND:Oh, you want to bring it over there? So it€s reverse to this and north would be the other end in reality. But the highway frontage there is a little different. There€s easements and other roadways in that area and the highway is occupying about 45 feet of the 80- foot slough that goes through the area. So there€s a potential down the road as a community actually developes and has a plan, that certain things could be developed and accommodated according to whatever happens around this area. So, the Southcoast Bar property is probably going to get developed very soon. So, on the board in the middle here is a roadway that I was responsible for putting it in Kona that serviced a farm-labor housing and it was funded by the government and 14% grade was the maximum grade that you could have. And so barely on this property was it possible to put a road in connecting to the Belt Highway. But it couldn€t achieve the 14% grade and service the farm below. So the Highway department was accommodating to the point that they waived their rules of perpendicular access to the highway. And we were able to build a road as it went down to extend it so that we could actually achieve a 14% grade. And this was just barely possible. And as a consequence of that experience I realize that the State HighwayDepartmentarealittlebitpragmaticinthefactthatthey€dliketodealwithreal situations and they are sometimes accommodating. And above that is a map showing the highway at that section so you can see that there is some latitude for highway development. And then this big map is just to indicate that we€re really involved in the middle of an area. Very large chunks of land that are owned by the State and the Federal government and large private owners and the need for regional planning of that area is probably a prime opportunity for us all to do something right because you have such great raw materials to work with in this region. And we don€t have to plan the way we€re forced to in Kailua or Hilo because it€s already established. And so we want to set an example that, fix it up a little higher than what is being done. This is an expedient for economics. Very (inaudible) aspect is more social and environmental than economic. So I would hope you€d see the virtue of the project and leave us whatever latitude that€s within your powers to do so that we can actually jump through all the hoops that are going to be necessary. Cause this is going to require dealing with a lot of agencies that have quite strict requirements. And I think we can overcome some of them if we are allowed to do that. SPRINGER:Thank you. Are we at-? ROLAND:And I€d just like to say this other map is- shows all the existing trees and it shows the formations that are actually buffers in reality themselves. And the whole site was designed to existing conditions with the hope of not having to disturb the land very much. It had already been bulldozed in major areas on the first two properties that had been consolidated. The other one is pretty much natural. And we are building in what is now going to be called you know, green building and so we€re trying to do something that doesn€t come in where they bulldoze everything and destroy all the trees. And we€ve gone through a lot of effort to put these buildings together in ways that they create natural spaces and a park-like setting. So basically that€s my take on it. SPRINGER:Thank you for the orientation to your supplemental materials. Commissioner Graham did I see a question there? EXHIBIT B 12 GRAHAM:Yeah I had a little follow-up I think for Commissioner Siracusa when she spoke about the highway. And, I understood what Mr. Roland said a little bit differently than the way I think she took it. I think he was saying we have the County involved which is us and then there€s the State Department of Transportation, and I think what he was saying is if we the County feel like it€s important there not be access to Highway 11 then we could put it in a condition like what we have here recommended. But what he€s saying is if we as the County are not concerned about that where it€s only up to the State he would prefer that we don€t put it in our conditions so that in the future whatever they may negotiate with the State doesn€t become problematic because of some conditions we put in. Is that correct? ROLAND:That€s very correct. Thank you. GRAHAM:So I think that€s the issue we have to feel- look at is, are there real concerns that we have so that we want to put in our own condition about Highway 11. SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner Graham. Mr. Roland I think we left off at Page 4.Isthereanythingelseyou€dliketodirectusto? ROLAND:WellIthinkyeahthatwasonIthinkpage3.Page4.ExcusemeI€m sorry. Page 4 we get into at the very top a 10-foot planting screen easement abutting the highway along mauka side of the site. We don€t really have much of a problem with that. We don€t want to look at the highway anymore than the highway wants to look at us. But that is the one place on the property where we will have sweeping coastal (inaudible) and it doesn€t exist anyplace else on the property and we want to be able to take advantage of that as well. YUEN:I€m sorry I didn€t hear what you just said. ROLAND:We would like to take advantage as well. YUEN:The sentence before that. ROLAND:We don€t have any objection to a 10-foot screen along the highway but we would, we€re a little apprehensive about the commercial zoning requirements that would be required for landscaping because we want to really do a regional landscape that would be the development of what€s appropriate in the woodland aspect and enhance that. And, the way the land is laid out and some of the pallings that are just beyond it actually mitigate a lot of the problems that you would normally be concerned with. And, the property that€s to the west is currently on the market and being offered for sale. And we don€t know who is going in there. We might want to be more buffered from them than they would want to be buffered from us. But we€re country people in the sense that we do work well with neighbors and we are community oriented and we have a resource capability of planting to resolve problems with neighbors. And if we have to offer trees or plants to neighbors to help screen things better and if they are willing to do that we would certainly be willing to do that also. So again we€re asking rather than you impose what would normally be required in a developed area if you look at this more like a place that hasn€t been developed yet that we could do a naturalistic landscaping job EXHIBIT B 13 that would be far superior than the textbooks and the regulation requirements. Again that€s asking for more than most peopleprobably would ask. SPRINGER:Please proceed. ROLAND:Okay. Then the next paragraph after that there€s about water. Drinking water and I guess maybe in our application it wasn€t fully clear. We€re going to be offering bottled water in situations where that€s appropriate. And we€ll also be using hauled potable water that would be also in contained and enclosed in properly lined structures. And, we€re also hoping to fully utilize the rain water and new technologies are just right around the corner where processing of this water might be acceptable to the Health Department. So, I don€t see any real problem with it but I just think that we won€t be getting into a situation nonetheless where we have to have a private water system. We€ll just be hauling water like everybody else does. And I guess when we get further down on the- down toward the bottom, D is a long paragraph but towardthebottomofthatparagraph.Therehasbeenseveralplacesapprovedinthatareafor light industrial use and when the Southcoast Bar and Grill was there it (inaudible) as a possibility someday. And we really put in light industrial to be inclusive to the whole community where people would want to have a small shop if they were environmentally compatible and fit in with the program and situation. Basically they would be artisans or craftsman or people building and making things with recycled products and sculpting and carving and multiple things. There€s a stain glass person that wants to be in there. Then as long as he doesn€t use lead and then some other means of the stain glass that sort of would qualify them you know in our minds. So we€re thinking not as a heavy industrial thing, there must be someway of qualifying that so that we still are able to perform that capacity to the community because there€s a lot of people there that cannot afford large spaces. For instance they would normally be emended (phonetic) once people build industrial buildings. We would like to provide something that (inaudible) benefit the community€s needs, which is small spaces. SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yeah, it seems that you€re addressing the comments in the recommendations that€s sort of the discussion that leads up to the conditions rather than the conditions in themselves. So I€d like out to you that you€re going about it backwards. ROLAND:Am I? Oh, I€m sorry. SIRACUSA:Yes. Furthermore, second of all it€s very hard to hear what you€re saying. I started out very much in support of this proposal after I had read it. And the more you talk the less in favor I am. And part of it is because I can€t understand what you€re saying. ROLAND:I€m sorry-. SIRACUSA:And, so maybe you should stop while you€re ahead. ROLAND:Thank you. Thank you for that I appreciate that. EXHIBIT B 14 SPRINGER:So sir would you care to then go through the conditions? ROLAND:I think we better with that. GOLDING, G.:I think you€re holding it too close. SIRACUSA:I€m sorry for being outright but I felt I really owed it to you to level with you about how you were coming across. ROLAND:Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I don€t know what€s wrong with this microphone. It€s probably me but I can€t find it. Yeah I think we€re starting on page 8 are we? SPRINGER:That€s correct. That€s where the conditions begin. ROLAND:One, two and three we are total agreement with. When we get to 4? GOLDING, G.:Hold it back. ROLAND:When we get to 4 can you hear me there? 4? Right there I think okay. Thestructureshallbelimitedinsizetothesquarefootage.BuildingSshallbenolargerthan 5,000 square feet. We were requesting 4200 square feet and we hope to scale it down in the refinement process of actually doing the plans. So we have ourselves covered and we don€t anticipate needing more square footage. And the same thing is true of Building M and Building L1. We€ve made sure that we asked for enough so we wouldn€t have a problem when we got to the plans of actual construction. And all, there€s some room for refinement and improvement and some-. SPRINGER:So sir, do you have any amendments that you are asking for to Condition number 4? ROLAND:I€m just going to make the point that he€s offering us almost 3,000 square feet more than we€re asking on those 3 buildings and we would certainly like to have it in another building, one of the buildings that he has recommended not approving. SPRINGER:Do you want to respond at this time Director Yuen? YUEN:I guess I didn€t understand the very last sentence that you said again. ROLAND:Okay, I€m sorry I think it€s the microphone? I don€t know- cause I€m-. SPRINGER:Sir it may not be the volume it may be the diction if-. ROLAND:Oh it€s the level? Is this better? Okay? SPRINGER:I think it€s the formation of the words. EXHIBIT B 15 ROLAND:Okay, thank you. SPRINGER:If you could speak more clearly. ROLAND:Okay. The 3 buildings that he is approving or recommending approval for. He is upping the square footage on each one of them to be accommodating I presume and it amounts to almost 3,000 square feet more than we will need and at the same time we are not being afforded the other buildings that we would like. So we would just like to point out the fact we€d rather have another building than being allowed to have more square footage in the three that you are recommending. SPRINGER:Director Yuen? YUEN:Yes,wedidincreasethesquarefootageslightly.Whatwefindisthatvery often people€s plans change and we do want to have a limit but the- we felt we would be comfortable with slightly larger buildings in case the plans did change. On the question of the additional buildings that gets really to the phasing of the project, putting aside the camping question the question of additional-. You have another area for the same types of uses but in a different portion of the property and that was supposed to be a later phase. Our concern about the project is we see a project that€s presented a certain way and there is a certain vision behind the project. We€re quite happy at supporting that. We see a project that is providing work spaces for people in the Ocean View community to do- and we don€t want to simply, we don€t want to characterize it only as arts and crafts. We haven€t done that but it€s with that kind of a focus. On the other hand we are not supporting this as an area for a general light industrial building where you could have say, it could become self storage spaces, baseyards for contractors and the like. And the reason we€re not supporting it for that is that we have an area now in the General Plan for commercial and light industrial uses in Ocean View and this is outside that area. But we see a unique project that is being presented that has a lot of merit and so we€re supporting- we are supporting that but we don€t- we would like to see that project show itself that that€s the way it€s going and then apply for an additional phase. If the project develops as it€s been presented and it is a thriving area of workshops for craftspeople in the Ocean View area I would have no problem with approving a second phase of more of the same. But we would rather not do that right now. So that€s the reason for having the square footage bigger than you even asked for, for the first phase, but not approving the second phase of the light industrial or crafts oriented workshop spaces that is in the phasing of the plan. ROLAND:Well we€ve been so hard pressed to demonstrate that we€re doing arts and crafts if we don€t provide some space for that you know. We can do some of it outdoors but it seems like some structure that allows some qualified aspect that doesn€t get confused as light industrial in the usual sense would really benefit the community. SPRINGER:Mr. Golding do you have some comments to make at this time? GOLDING, G.:Yes I think on the part that was approved there was a little misunderstanding as to the store. We€re not proposing a- the gallery is for local artists to display EXHIBIT B 16 their artwork. It€s not for- and the store, the retail store was for recyclable goods that the community desperately needs such as refrigerators, furniture, more or less household items for the community. It wasn€t a artsy crafts place more or less and that seemed to have been left off in the first section that was approved. And so the whole concept of it was a store for the community and a place for the local artists to display their arts and crafts. And also with the gathering area that we have it would be an ideal place for disaster area. We€d have the second hand; I mean not second hand but the well the recyclable items for the community in case they needed them. So that€s our main goal was to, to get the store with the gallery for the community was our first step. And the rest was also for the community but not necessarily just arts and crafts type items. It would be a rental item, rental stores also; office space and stuff like that. I didn€t know if that was misunderstood. (long pause) I just thought we€re losing the whole concept of our idea for the community here it€s-. SIRACUSA:Excuse me? SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:So you€re saying that the store you€re talking about was Building S? GOLDING, G.:Yes. SIRACUSA:Okay. Would you- we have condition number 6 which says no commercial retail stores permitted other than the sale of items produced on the premises. But you€re talking about used furniture things like that; those are not produced on the premises. GOLDING, G.:Right. SIRACUSA:Would you care to suggest an alternative wording to condition number 6? GOLDING, G.:Well, I think our wording was correct- SIRACUSA:That we could consider? GOLDING, G.:- in our presentation our wording was correct. SPRINGER:Can you direct us to that please in your application? DARROW:Page 11 at the top of the page of the applicant€s application. SPRINGER:Specifics of the request section B? DARROW:In regards to this request. SPRINGER:Is that? DARROW:Correct. Specifics of request first paragraph. EXHIBIT B 17 SIRACUSA:Is that page 1? ROLAND:I think- DARROW:Eleven. ROLAND:It€s item B. SIRACUSA:Okay. Ah! Oh okay yeah I see it, applicants want to open a recycled furniture store selling eclectic collectibles and functional household necessities. And that would be Building S, which according to the Director€s recommendation is recommended for approval. SPRINGER:Commissioner Watanabe? SIRACUSA:So I€m wondering if we should be changing condition number 6 to coincideandreflectthat? SPRINGER:CommissionerWatanabe? WATANABE:MyquestionwouldbefortheDirector.Isuspectyouputonlyasaleof goods produced on the property because of a concern for the scale of the operation is- am I right in that? And my follow up to that would be if that was the case then could we limit the retail space instead and still control scale? SPRINGER:Perhaps let€s take a 5-minute recess while the Director has a chance to read through the application and reconcile any language in the application with the recommendation that needs to be made. RECESSED:The Chair called for a recess at 11:00 a.m. RECONVENED:The meeting reconvened at 11:05 a.m. SPRINGER:I€d like to call this meeting of the Hawaii County Planning Commission back to order and just to do a time check for us. We€re now at 11:05. I have to leave the meeting at 12:00 so that gives us a full 55 minutes to continue on with our discussion. Mr. Torigoe is now checking through the rules to see if we do have any alternatives to Chairmanship should I leave in that we€re lacking our Chair and our second Vice-Chair at this particular meeting. So Mr. Torigoe is looking through the rules to see if we have any guidance in this situation in the rules and in the meanwhile if we could begin our- resume our discussion and try to make the most of this 55 minutes before us. Mr. Roland we were going through the conditions. Perhaps during the break you had a chance to scan the conditions and if there are any that you would like to make specific recommendations to us on or amendments to that would help expedite our discussion at this time. EXHIBIT B 18 ROLAND:Yes and I think I€ll let Gary continue cause my voice is, something€s wrong with it, it€s like a big frog in it or something. But anyway, we€re at 10. They would like to address 10 and then maybe 11 lightly and I think that might be it. We€re open to anything that anybody else would like to ask. SPRINGER:Okay and following your turn at discussion the Planning Director will then take up the issues that you€ve raised. Please proceed Mr. Golding. GOLDING, G.:Okay. Actually I€m on Number 6 with the no commercial retail store is permitted other than the sale of items produced on the premises and that€s what I turned over to-. Number 10 refers to the hours of operation. And, currently it is from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. And, we were asking to amend that since we do have a bar permitted next door. As I understand it that the bar is still, the permit is still active for the bar, restaurant and real estate office directly next door. Limiting us to 7, uh 6:00 p.m. would also limit us due to the area we€re located in. MostpeopleinOceanViewdon€tevengethometillprobablyabout5.Sowe€dhave1hourat night to put on meetings or such. So, we€d like that looked at. SPRINGER:Do you have a specific suggestion? GOLDING, G.:Well we were, we€d like to have 9:30. I think the neighborhood noise is up until 10. That would give us time to evacuate the property and in the timely hour. SIRACUSA:Question. SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yeah, so you€re saying that for example if a group has a meeting there that it would want to- you would want to go on after 6. But would you consider that a business activity or an administrative activity? GOLDING, G.:Neither. It would be for the public. SIRACUSA:You might want to switch what these categories are. Business activities means what you€re doing in the office for example you know all your paperwork and stuff like that. Or maybe that would be the administrative activities I can€t imagine you staying open that late in the office to work on-. So you might want to switch those around. GOLDING, G.:See I think what Mr. Roland- SIRACUSA:Or add in to business activities and meetings and public meetings and make that go on till 9:30. So, you could make a recommendation for specific changes like that and we could put them in and then vote them in as part of the, as part of the approval process. GOLDING, G.:I think some of the problem we€re having here is the fact that this paper was interpretation of what we wrote. And what we wrote on our original presentation is not what€s represented here correctly. EXHIBIT B 19 SIRACUSA:Yeah, I can see that where it says in 10, no public activities that would be meetings for example shall be conducted between the hours of 6:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. I don€t understand what the reasoning is for that. Usually when groups have meetings they have them in the evening after people have come home from work and had dinner and then they go out to their public meetings. SPRINGER:I think what the Planning Director asked to do- SIRACUSA:Yes. SPRINGER:Was to go through the entire. SIRACUSA:I would like the Planning Director to, if he had some specific ideas in mindwhenheputthatin. SPRINGER:Okay.Mr.YuenonNumber10? YUEN:Whydon€twegothrougheverythingandfinishtheirlistofconcernsand then we can go through them one by one. SPRINGER:Mr. Golding. GOLDING, G.:So we would like to have the people be able to have their meetings up until 9:30 at night. SPRINGER:Proceed. IWASHITA:Do you want your store open, I€m sorry. SPRINGER:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Thank you. Do you want your store to be able to be open till 9:30 at night? GOLDING, G.:No, the store would be open till 6:00. IWASHITA:Thank you. ROLAND:The gallery might be open till 9:30. GOLDING, G.:On occasion we might have the gallery open till 6:00 but that wouldn€t- ROLAND:It€d be 9:30. EXHIBIT B 20 GOLDING, G.:I mean 9:30. The store will be split between a store and a gallery. So the gallery could be open a little later if possible. SPRINGER:So we€ll be coming back to a specific discussion of 10. It sounds like there€s still some, some refinement to be made there. GOLDING, G.:Right. SPRINGER:Shall we continue on? GOLDING, G.:Okay. SPRINGER:At Number 11, we€d, Commissioner Siracusa recommended language to the effect of limiting not prohibiting the use of electronic amplification. So is that acceptable? Maywegoonto12? GOLDING,G.:Well,nowedohaveanoutdoorgatheringareaiswhatweweremainly talking about is classes outdoors, hula, cultural events outdoors in our gathering area, which is just directly in front of that. That space right there would be the gathering area for people to gather and watch cultural events at that time. And we were requesting amplification at that time since we€re outdoors. SPRINGER:But I think that the recommendation to limit rather than prohibit amplification is germane whether it€s indoors or outdoors. GOLDING, G.:Okay. SPRINGER:And there may be ways to monitor decibel levels. GOLDING, G.:Right. SPRINGER:And the Director will be coming back to each of these conditions in his response to you. GOLDING, G.:I think we€ve covered it all now. Thank you. SPRINGER:Thank you. Mr. Yuen? YUEN:I€m sticking with my recommendation with respect to the later the second phase. I can€t remember what the phases are but the second aspect of the workshop spaces and the overnight camping. On, starting with then number 5, I€m willing to add a, this is a landscaping, I€m willing to add, recommend adding a condition that says at the very end of that that the, in the alternative the applicant shall submit a master landscaping plan for approval by the Planning Director prior to construction of any of the improvements. GOLDING, G.:We would agree to that. EXHIBIT B 21 YUEN:And the reason for this- the landscaping, the Rule 17 landscaping relies on either you planting, you€re doing a lot of planting or existing woodlands. In this- this is an area that€s rather sparsely vegetated as a normal, the normal situation there and it might not- to do heavy landscaping. We did want to see some screening from the adjacent property but to do heavy landscaping might seem out of place in the overall character of the area. So this would introduce some flexibility to that. For Number 6 - I would say we don€t want this to be a wide open retail situation and it€s a little difficult to understand exactly what the scope is because there€s some statements that are very general in the application and then some statements that are very specific. So, what I€d be willing to recommend is that at the- we would say no commercial retail store is permitted other than the sale of items produced on the premises, and this next part is to accommodate what the applicant had represented in their application, sale of second hand furniture, second hand household goods and collectibles as represented in the application. And this is also as you represented here. In other words you can€t open up a furniture store you can sellsecondhandfurniture.Youtalkedaboutrecyclingwashingmachinesyoucan€topena washing, you can€t open up a store that sells washing machines or new television sets or the like but you can open a store that sells second hand items under this. And I would say for the gallery if I€m understanding you correctly you don€t want it limited to items produced on the premises but for- you would- it would be arts and crafts produced in the Ka€u District? That€s fine you€re saying? GOLDING, G.:Yes YUEN:All right so that would be the final clause, arts and crafts produced in the Ka€u District. I will not budge on our recommendation on number 9, no access to the Hawaii Belt Road. What I find sometimes is that the government agencies get played off against each other. Like the- somebody will, if we don€t, if we say it€s okay with us then the applicant will go to the DOT and say well it€s okay with the County why is it not okay with you. If the DOT says it€s okay with them people will come to us and say the DOT let€s us have access why isn€t it okay with you? We do want to limit access on Highway 11 to the existing intersections. As businesses may develop in Ocean View we€re just going to repeat a problem that we have elsewhere on the island if we have numerous points of access. Now if things change in the future it€s true that you can come back to the Planning Commission and ask for an amendment of this. But I, whether the Department of Transportation for whatever reason does not want to limit access, will let you have access I think from our point of view we the Planning Department would say we want to limit access. Number 10, I would say the hours of operation should be limited between 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. and for business activities. The public I€m not clear on what kinds of public events we€re talking about. That€s the issue. GOLDING, G.:We have actually no places to meet for- currently the Chamber of Commerce meets in a restaurant to discuss their- to have their monthly meetings. The Protea club meets in a church. It goes on like that all these little clubs have no place to meet. We do have a community center but it€s politically controlled in some ways where they don€t let all groups come and whatever. So- YUEN:You€re talking about indoor meetings? EXHIBIT B 22 GOLDING, G.:Indoor meetings yes. YUEN:You€re talking about an indoor meeting area. Then I would say 10-p.m. limit for indoor meetings would be reasonable time. GOLDING, G.:Well, I was referring to outdoor meetings also in our gathering area. YUEN:Then it becomes more of a noise question. GOLDING, G.:Yes it would be. Can I point out to you the area? YUEN:All right go ahead. GOLDING,G.:Whatwehaverighthereisacommercialkitchenwithadeckanda landing that surrounds it. This is all a natural amphitheater type area in here. If this was lawn people could sit on the lawn and enjoy whatever entertainment or whatever activity is going on- on the deck. Also this deck could be an area for the meetings outdoor during the day. They€re usually held during a- around noontime, lunchtime and at the restaurant they supply food. With a catering kitchen they could supply food or make their own food in the catering kitchen and items like that. So, mainly this area here is a natural gathering area and what we€ve seen is generally the winds blow from this direction out over the highway. YUEN:Let me, let me just so the record, this will help our transcript on this. What you€re describing is winds blowing from mauka over the highway. And you€re describing the gathering area as being along the Moana Avenue side of the property no? GOLDING, G.:Actually it€s right in the middle. YUEN:It€s in the middle of the property. All right. GOLDING, G.:These are the 2 streets right here. Moana€s right here and the highway€s right here and the gathering area is right here and it€s down in a puka. YUEN:But you have a neighbor to the immediate property line of that? GOLDING, G.:I have a neighbor right here, which is mauka of Moana. And I have a neighbor right here, which is a, I guess this would be south and I- YUEN:And what do you- you have a vacant lot next to this gathering area? GOLDING, G.:I have, from here, I have approximately 5 lots vacant. There€s no other lots, I mean they€re all vacant along the highway. YUEN:Well but I- you have to understand that we also have to consider the rights of people that move to vacant lots. EXHIBIT B 23 GOLDING, G.:Right I understand yeah. YUEN:And even it€s a vacant lot now we can€t sit here and say well it€s just a vacant lot so we don€t have to worry about the people there. GOLDING, G.:Oh, no. I understand that yeah. YUEN:Okay go ahead. GOLDING, G.:Right here is where the bar was and I don€t know if the permit is still in- valid or not but there€s right here this is a driveway to the highway. There was a bar, restaurant and real estate office here at one- the real estate office wasn€t there it was proposed but the bar burned down and it€s currently for sale. As I understand it the bar is-. The special permit is still in,activeforthem,whoeverbuysthatproperty.That€sthewaythey€representingitonthe market anyway. And my point was with the winds that they blow this way just the sound carries kind of this way. I don€t know if that matters. YUEN:Okay. I€m comfortable with a 10:00 time limit for public events not exceeding once a week because we want to put some kind of limit to the scale here. And all these things are subject to amendment. If it turns out that some day your neighbors are fine with you having more events and it€s something the community wants we- this can be amended at a point in the future. But as far as my recommendation, that would be my recommendation on a time and the frequency of events. And then we€ll cover the noise aspect in the next paragraph. Rather than prohibiting amplification devices we€ll say noise levels shall not exceed 55 dba days and 45 dba nights at the property line. This is the general noise standard in a residential district and we have used this a few times for special permits. If you want an idea 55 dba would be a fairly audible hum, like a hummm, that would be about 55; 45 is pretty quiet. So, that would be, so you would hold to that whether it€s the hula chanters voice or an amplified sound. It€s, if you get complaints then naturally the inclination is going to be that you€re probably exceeding it. So, but let€s put that in. That would be my suggestion on the noise rather than an outright ban on amplification. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen clarification on the hours that constitute daytime and nighttime. Daylight hours or time on the clock? YUEN:Well, day I would say is dawn, sunrise to sunset and rather because it changes you know by season-. For number 11, I would say day is sunrise to sunset and night is after sun- sunset to sunrise. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners we have been discussing amendments to condition 6, 10 and 11. Sorry Conditions 5, 6, 10 and 11. Is there any discussion on those recommended amendments? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:I just want to make it- find out and make it clear on the record whether the applicant agrees with those amendments as discussed by the Director? EXHIBIT B 24 GOLDING, G.:Oh I think those were very good. Thank you. I just had one other thing though that wasn€t on this list was- we had 2 other buildings on our project A & B and I think they were denied. And we didn€t discuss those. YUEN:We continue to recommend denial of A & B at the present time. They€re similar to what you have on your first phase and our recommendation is let€s see how the first phase goes before you come back with the additional buildings. IWASHITA:Madame Chair? Madame Chair? SPRINGER:Mr. Darrow? IWASHITA:No it€s me. SPRINGER:No, I€m sorry. Mr. Iwashita? IWASHITA:I€m glad my voice sounds that tall. I just wanted clarification on L3 the restroomandthatareafromtheapplicant.EarlierIguessthediscussionwasthatifthose facilities were intended to benefit the property other than or other than the camping. If it was intended to benefit or be used by those on the property other than the campers I wanted to clarify that. Or was that L3 intended basically, primarily or solely for the campers on L2? GOLDING, G.:That was solely for the campers. IWASHITA:Okay. I guess one other follow-up on? SPRINGER:Proceed. IWASHITA:-the discussion on A & B. I just wanted to get your under- try to clarify if you understand basically that the concern about A & B and those proposed uses was that it€s in my mind rather speculative at this time. You€re not really planning to do it in the foreseeable future‚, it€s something projected or intended down the road after you do the initial phase 1. So that from the Commission€s perspective and Department€s perspective it€s well when you€re ready to do that come back and see us then. And, whether or not that€s, you understood that and if you did whether that€s an acceptable procedure or a procedure you would accept? GOLDING, G.:What€s interesting about that is that we went to the Planning Department and they wanted it all at once and that€s why this project was expanded another year to get it all inclusive. And now it€s turned out to where we should come back and present it in sections so it€s a little confusing to me. And we can agree to, we have agreed to everything because that€s what we want is mainly to start off with our second-hand store and our gallery for the people and the gathering area. I think. GOLDING, C.:I€d like to say something. EXHIBIT B 25 GOLDING, G.:My wife would like to say something. GOLDING, C.:It€s just on A & B. We have the gathering area that the community can use for meeting and in order to make this an inexpensive type of gathering area we€re willing to put up the buildings. We€re willing to landscape the land, make the grass, everything but we would like it to be sustainable. We€d like those 2 buildings for the community to make something in those buildings. Their own businesses, their own opportunity to do something. Building S was our opportunity to be a mom and pop store that€s what we want to do. The gallery is for local artists; those are other people other than us. But A & B is for the community that€s why we planned around buildings that could be used in a couple of different ways cause we don€t know exactly which people. We€ve been approached by 15 or 20 people that do things in their home and sell it but that was the idea for A & B to make, where they could legally come down and start their own thing. And so if we leave out A & B we€re getting our store, we€ll get our lodge but what about the people that all supported us over 150, 200 people? So I have a little bitofaproblemtosayA&B,wellforgetA&B.Thatisreallyimportanttothecommunity. SPRINGER:CommissionerIwashita? IWASHITA:ThankyouMadameChair.SowhatI€munderstanding,orwhatIheardis that A & B were intended by you to be the public meeting places as well as- GOLDING, C.:No. IWASHITA:No. GOLDING, C.:The public meeting places would be either in the outside area even the art gallery type of area in the store. But A & B would be places where people could make their own business say somebody who makes little Hawaiian jewelry you know carves fish hooks or something. They can carve them at home but where are they going to sell them? You know where are they going to get exposure? Where can they rent a small space to start their own business? IWASHITA:So, what I am hearing now is that A & B is not something really out in the future it€s something that you have had, sounds like lots of expression of interest from many people in the area to rent little spaces where they can make and sell their crafts. GOLDING, C.:Start their own thing. We don€t want to control everything we want an opportunity for other people to do their own thing. As far as in the future phase 1 is the store which we are really behind and we€re really ready and that€s us. Future it could be- IWASHITA:Can you give me an idea then of the types of crafts or products, sort of the range of what people have told you they wanted to do? GOLDING, C.:Well some people carve fishhooks and make Hawaiian jewelry. There was a stained glass person that makes stained glass, sells it at the swap meet, we have a little swap meet. There was somebody who wanted a little section to do a dance studio, dying to teach EXHIBIT B 26 some people dance in the area but there isn€t a structure. So these type of things you know just their homemade things. That€s I think why the light industrial came into actually making something. If it were just plain commercial they wouldn€t make anything, they would just sell something. IWASHITA:So, I guess a concern expressed earlier and obviously you know our zoning kind of laws are very broad. And so you know the concern is if we just say light industrial then you can do everything that€s the 20 or 30 kind of really broad things you can do in there. Special permit process allows us to limit the types of activities so if we were to consider allowing A & B to go through then we would in my mind be limiting to the kinds of activities that you€ve described in your application and today. That would be acceptable and not use a broad light industrial kind of designation. GOLDING, C.:I would think we€d be willing to work on what the individual- what you wouldallowtheindividualusesfor.Butwithoutthebuildingwithoutanokaythatyoucanmake the building we can€t make anything. IWASHITA:No, no I- GOLDING, C.:Okay, I don€t understand that part. IWASHITA:What I€m suggesting is- it is my impression that this was out in the future right? But you€re saying that there€s a need now, that you want to address a present need right? And so I€m, what I€m talking about is the Commission adding another- you know the approval of A & B but limiting the uses. GOLDING, C.:Um, hm. Okay. IWASHITA:To what you€ve described in the application. GOLDING, C.:Yes, cause that€s the point of making the buildings yes. IWASHITA:Okay. Thank you. SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes, as we know from the DLNR application there are a lot of uses that are considered exempted in a mixed-industrial area that we wouldn€t want to see. And, I get the feeling that you wouldn€t want to see it there either. At the same time we understand that you need to make some money to cover the cost of this project. So you need to have some spaces to rent out. When I was reading your application I was especially excited about the idea that you wanted to provide office space to priority to non-profits for office space at a reduced rate. Because as President of a non-profit and being on the Boards of many others I know how hard that is to come by. And if you come by it you have to, usually you can€t afford it. So I like that about it, I like the idea of providing meeting spaces for community groups. Is this the sort of thing that buildings A, B and C were supposed to- or A & B specifically supposed to provide? EXHIBIT B 27 GOLDING, G.:Yes that was our plan. And like my wife pointed out without A & B it€d seem like, cause we€ve been promoting this for maybe a year and a half, it€d seem like what we got our second hand store but the people in the community didn€t get their stores that they€ve been looking for. Because there is really a limited amount of stores currently in that area. SIRACUSA:Yeah, so basically what I€m trying to get at is that if those particular uses that I just mentioned that I liked would be- were planned for buildings A & B? GOLDING, C.:Yes. SIRACUSA:That€s correct. In that case I would you know want to poll the other Commissioners about how they would feel about approving A & B and limiting some of the uses that we were talking about that would normally be exempt in a mixed-industrial. SPRINGER:Commissioner Watanabe if I may before I call on you ask the Director whathisopinionisgiventhedirectionthatthediscussionisgoingnowtoapproveofA&B. YUEN:Wellthisisasimilardiscussionwehadin-houseandtheproblemiswe don€t want-. We were hearing, we hear an application that is- that starts off being very generic, light industrial and office space, which could be just about anything which we are not in favor of. And then, then it starts to, then the application goes into something that is extremely specific and it says, Building A is a single story with a rising roof containing flexible office and shop bay rental spaces for professional and scientific programs and available for crafts or field workshops or projects in this district relating, related to archaeology, biology, seed bank collection, cultural in-depth historical research and providing for a computer use facility‚. Then it goes on to say that service organizations and some non-profits will be preferentially accommodated with a reduced rent subsidy which all other independent businesses would be on a first-come basis for remaining available space. As I said we are not supporting this for a general-purpose office commercial and light-industrial space. And at the same time I don€t want to approve a, rental spaces for professional and scientific programs and available for crafts. You get, then you get into this- it€s, first, it€s really not going to work for them because people are going to come to you who are not necessarily fit within this definition and you€re going to be in the position of having to turn them away. Or the Planning Department is going to have to watch and see exactly who is doing what. This is- there€s another example of this in actually Pahui Plaza, the Ocean View was where they have a business area. And the unfortunate thing there is that it was written up with specific uses and so every time a business wants to come in with a different use it either doesn€t fit or you have to amend the permit. Now that one is a location where we would say now, any office type use, okay go ahead do it what do we care I mean. But the problem is that it was written for a real estate office, a this and a that and so you, anybody else that wants to do a different kind of office it just doesn€t fit the special permit. So, we- having the difficulty we had in nailing this down we just said defer this part of the application. Now, if we were to say-. Well if we were to talk about doing this is Building M, I would be more comfortable about doing this. And, because of this, again this scale issue. EXHIBIT B 28 SIRACUSA:I have another thought then which might be germane to your comments and your concerns and that is I haven€t seen anything in what I€ve read that referred to really light industrial usage. What if the light industrial part was taken out? How would everything else then fall into line? You certainly wouldn€t have to worry about- YUEN:Well the Special Permit request you see the page 1 at the top says Special Permit Request, proposal for mixed use allowing commercial and light industrial in combination with residential and agricultural facilities for establishing wholesale, retail outlets and office rental space and it goes on and on. But the difference here is we think, we agree with the applicant that there is a need for generic office and workshop and in fact light industrial areas in Ocean View. We just don€t feel that you should be scattered throughout the community on a Special Permit basis. We are comfortable with a very specific application for certain types of uses here but not something that is completely wide open. So on the one hand the application as I said starts off very broad and then the descriptive portions become overly specific, I mean unrealisticallyspecific. SPRINGER:Sothat€sa-maybealanguagequestionwhichwithsomeguidancethe applicants could tailor their narrative section to the needs that you€ve described Mr. Yuen is that correct? YUEN:I would be okay with saying that we could approve Building M for commercial kitchen and workshop space and then they have, we have a 5,000 square foot limit for Building M, I€m sorry? SPRINGER:Thank you. YUEN:And just leave it at workshop space, workshop and office spaces and then let it go at that and see how this project develops in the future as to whether we would support an expansion of it. SPRINGER:Thank you. Before we hear from the applicant a couple of the Commissioners have questions, Commissioner Watanabe and Commissioner Salavea. Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Yeah just for clarification you know in your recommendation I think we left out Building L3 as being denied, we want to insert that? YUEN:L3 from what the applicant said is directly part of the commercial camping operation which we are recommending denial so we would also recommend denial of L3. WATANABE:Yeah but in the write up it€s not. SIRACUSA:It doesn€t say. DARROW:Commissioner Watanabe we€re going to add- EXHIBIT B 29 WATANABE:L3 to that? DARROW:The question remained whether or not L3 was accessory to the remainder of the facility or specifically for the campground. WATANABE:Uh huh. DARROW:Now that we€re sure it€s specific to the campground we€ll add it. WATANABE:Insert L3 right after L2. DARROW:Correct. WATANABE:Okay. DARROW:Thank you. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioner Salavea? SALAVEA:Thank you Madame Chair. I€m in support of the concept of the project. I thinkit€sveryusefulandneededbythecommunityespeciallytheideaaboutproviding community meeting space and also areas for I guess small entrepreneurs that type of activities. I do however have a problem of approving I guess the number and size of the buildings only because of my concerns for their uses. In the write up the Director pointed out in my opinion and how I feel it€s so broad based that it could in the future and I€m not saying that this would happen. But I- as one of my responsibilities I have to think of the what ifs‚ and the possibilities of what could happen. And with such broad uses available for those buildings possibly a bidding war for the space. I mean it€s intended to provide community access but as we know premium space, demand, supply and demand can sometimes become a driving force on who gets to use the space so that€s my concern and excuse me this question would be more for Director Yuen. I was thinking in future terms if this property was to ever be conveyed or transferred from the current owners to someone else would the buildings that were or I guess the buildings and their uses approved through Special Permit be applicable? So that we can be, the Commission can be assured that say if we did approve just for argument purposes Buildings A, B that they won€t- they wouldn€t be converted by the next owner into say something more industrial or so a higher use. YUEN:Well the permit and the conditions run with the land. So it€s important that we put what we want in the conditions because otherwise it€s like that saying that good fences make good neighbors, good conditions make for good enforcement because the more clearer that it is the easier it is for both sides to understand and to enforce. SALAVEA:Thank you. And that€s where my concern arises because of the language that the application is written in it is such a broad spectrum of uses that basically to me it looks you know almost anything under the sun can be brought in and qualify for- to use the space. And so, we want to- and that presents a problem for the County and the Planning Department EXHIBIT B 30 because then now its about enforcement and that the Planning Department has to be on top of watching what does go on and I don€t think we want to dedicate our resources in that way. So the better that we tie it up as Commissioner Graham had mentioned earlier the more at ease the Commission would feel about the project. And I think working together with you folks we can come to agreement about what the uses will be and then we€d be assured that it would be in line- the uses would be in line into the future along what the community is asking for and what is applicable or- yeah applicable for the area in terms of use. SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner Salavea. And if I understood the Director correctly he suggested that there may be some commercial activity that could occur in Building M and that€s where our discussion is up to this point. I need to do a time check and some housekeeping for the Planning Commissioners. It€s now 10 to 12; we have 3 members of the public who have signed up to give testimony on this matter. I€m not sure that the discussion has been full and is complete. I need to leave at 12 o€clock or very shortly thereafter. Mr. Torigoe hasconsultedwiththerulesandRobert€sRulesofOrderandMr.Torigoecouldyouperhapsjust give us a description of what our alternative may be at this time? TORIGOE:Thank you Madame Chair. First of all again this is a technically a contested case although there is no formal contested case. It€s technically a contested case because it is a final decision that you will be making and that can be appealed to court. Under contested case Rule 4-5, the presiding officer is the Chairperson of the Commission, one of its members or a hearing officer duly appointed and designated. The rules don€t seem to say how you appoint one of the members. That being the case we would default to Robert€s Rules which states, provides for an appointed Chairman pro tem if the President vacates the Chair during a meeting and no Vice-President is available he can or she can subject to the approval of the assembly appoint a temporary chairman who is called a Chairman Pro tempore. So you know that is I think a procedure that you can use, we wouldn€t want to do it all the time but so the Chairperson I think can appoint someone. Preferably someone who has not spoken, taken a position on the merits of the application and subject to the consensus approval of the Board. SPRINGER:Members you€ve heard the options available to us and that would be to conclude business when I need to excuse myself or that Chairman pro tem is then appointed. We may- knowing this it is our pleasure we may continue to conduct business for the next 10 minutes and see if we can arrive at a decision on this matter. If we decide to do that I would suggest that at 12 o€clock we suspend our discussion and then take up the matter of a pro tem assignment. Is that acceptable to us? TORIGOE:Madame Chair just also I suggest that if you go ahead with that procedure that we would check with the applicant and get on record their concurrence with that. SPRINGER:To the applicant and the colleagues all there at the table you€ve heard a description of our situation and the options available to us. Are you- do you have any discomfort with what we€ve discussed so far? GOLDING, G.:No unless it unbalance the vote in any way. EXHIBIT B 31 SPRINGER:We won€t know until the vote. GOLDING, G.:Okay, we€re fine with it. SPRINGER:Thank you. Then if we could continue with our discussion for the next 10 minutes and maybe we€ll get to a good point of conclusion. Mr. Roland? ROLAND:I would just like to add to this general discussion that Building M is designed to the features of the land and has a function and it wouldn€t be easily accomodate-able into a functional use for crafts and other meetings and so forth. Maybe we could bridge from that building to one of the buildings and make it one building and get the square footage or something. Maybe there€s a way of getting around all this and so that particular structure is (inaudible) one function and it wouldn€t suit the other. SPRINGER:ThankyouMr.Roland.Isthereanyfurtherdiscussiononthismatterthen from either the Commissioners or the Planning Director? Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Yeah notwithstanding Mr. Roland€s comments I would be comfortable with Mr. Yuen€s idea in gen- as a general thing about perhaps allowing Building M to have some, some office or meeting place uses. I am generally uncomfortable with approving 2 other buildings with the idea even if we limited. I€m just somewhat worried about the whole scope of this situation and as Mr. Salavea says what you know notwithstanding what you€re ideas are we can€t control what happens 5 or 10 years from now. If these buildings are built and your plans do not work out while the permit only says they can be used for these things it would be very difficult and I would not want to put a Commissioner 10 years from now in the position of saying no you gotta leave those buildings vacant. It would be very- it would be difficult not to approve- I don€t know auto repair facility or whatever in that, in that same position. And you know if you guys had sold the property there would be no control over it and the permit we give goes with the property not with the owner. So, I€m generally uncomfortable with the full expense of the situation. SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner McCall. Before I call on you Commissioner Watanabe I do have a procedural question based on Commissioner McCall€s testimony. Denial of a portion of this application does not preclude subsequent application does it? Or if it does for what time period? YUEN:One year, it precludes subsequent application for a year unless there are substantial change in circumstances. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioner Watanabe and then the applicants. WATANABE:Yeah, my question is for the applicants. You indicated that Building M is not suitable but do you have any suggestions from the buildings that are being recommended for approval? Meaning P1, P2, L1? EXHIBIT B 32 ROLAND:M is really a very small building. It has a commercial kitchen and bathroom downstairs which is cut into the side of the bank there and a small manager€s quarters above. It€s really not a lot of square footage. All the square footage in that building comes from decks or 2,000 square feet of deck area. And so, the park€s spatial aspect would be adversely affected by trying to put a large building there. But maybe we could tie one of the buildings to it and accommodate everything and you could qualify it in some way or other. Industrial requirements we are creating a problem and we didn€t foresee that. SPRINGER:I think that the Commissioners- WATANABE:My question is yeah- SPRINGER:Question was different. WATANABE:I€msorry,myquestionisofthebuildingsthatarebeingrecommendedfor approval if not M which one would you suggest? GOLDING, G.:I€ll answer that. Building A would be better. Now, does that answer the question? SPRINGER:The question regards buildings L1, P1 and P2. WATANABE:Building A is being denied right? GOLDING, G.:Oh, none of the other buildings would be suitable no. WATANABE:None of the others. GOLDING, G.:And the reason we went with light industrial, commercial is because the red dot next to us is zoned light industrial commercial and that€s what we used as a guide for our Special Use Permit and that€s why we€re asking. We really didn€t want industrial, we€re more on a commercial with limitations would be fine with us. But since our neighbor had it and we are learning the process we went with light industrial commercial. SPRINGER:Before I call upon you Mr. Iwashita. Mr. Yuen hearing the applicant€s understanding and reasons for choosing this particular designation are there other alternatives to them? A better designation choice? YUEN:It becomes this definitional thing where you don€t- we€re being. We€re seeing one picture of the jewelry store, the jewelry manufacturer, the photographer€s gallery, etc. but we don€t have a set descriptive category for that. It€s something we have to invent and I€m sitting here trying to invent that because the picture that you€re-. If you just say light industrial or even to some extent you just say workshop you also, you have the body and fender, the auto painter, the you know a whole range of possible things that people could be doing out of here that we think there€s a place for it but not necessarily scattered throughout every lot in Ocean View. EXHIBIT B 33 SPRINGER:Okay Commissioners we€re right up against 12 o€clock. I see a number of Commissioners would like to speak on this matter it looks like discussion will not conclude in the next couple of minutes also taking into consideration that we have 3 members of the public who have signed up to testify on this matter. What is the pleasure of the Commissioners? Are any of you willing to take the Chairmanship on a temporary basis as a Chairman Pro tem to conclude this discussion and move onto decision making? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:I€m certainly willing to take it on but I did want to indicate that I gotta leave early today too so. I probably can stay till like 2:15 or something like that. SPRINGER:Okay. Thank you Commissioner Graham. Commissioners I would like to then make the appointment of Commissioner Graham. He€s indicated his willingness to serve until 2:15 this afternoon. Are there any objections? COMMISSIONERS:No. SPRINGER:Thank you members. May we take another 5-minute recess while I just turnmynotesovertotheCommissionerincludingthelistofpublictestifiers? RECESSED:TheChaircalledforarecessat12:05p.m. RECONVENED:The meeting reconvened at 12:16 p.m. GRAHAM:I will call the Planning Commission meeting back to order. We are on the agenda item of Gary and Crissy Golding for aSpecial Permit in the Ka€u district. I€m William Graham. I€m going to be the temporary Chair ofthis meeting. And I wanted to let you all know that I€m certainly good till about 2:15 and we generally take a lunch break at some point. But a lunch break would probably put almost an effective end on things so we€re going to run for a little while and then if the Commissioners want to do different then I€ll welcome hearing from them.AndwhereCommissionerSpringerleftmeandmyunderstandingisthattherewere2of our Commissioners here that had comments they wanted to make already pending and after that I€dliketogettothepublictestifierssincethey€vebeenheresolong.Andalwaysasapartofour procedure after the public has testified the applicants get a chance to come back forward again and make any responses to what came up in the public testimony. So we€re going to do that if that€s all right. Okay. Commissioner Watanabe were you pending a comment you€d like to make or a question? WATANABE:Well I, actually I, how should I put this? I didn€t realize we had 3 people from the public that were willing to testify and I thought maybe we were getting to a point where we might be able to entertain a motion. On the other hand right about that juncture they indicated that Building M is not acceptable for the added flexibility the Director had suggested with regard to the types of commercial activities that could occur there. And, in my mind I kind of offered them a way out but it doesn€t seem like any of the other buildings that are being proposed are acceptable either for that type of activity or at least not in their minds. And you know I think maybe we should hear the public testimony from those 3 individuals because they EXHIBIT B 34 have waited very patiently. On the other hand I think maybe, we may need to defer this cause it doesn€t seem like we can really hit a win-win. I don€t know that€s just my opinion. GRAHAM:Thank you. I did have just a few words with the Planning Director in between and he€s been working onhowhe might adjust the conditions, a little bit which may or may not satisfy the applicant in this regard. But maybe as soon as we€re finished with the public testimony he could come forward with that and we€ll see if we€re close or not. WATANABE:I appreciate that. GRAHAM:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Thank you Mr. Chair. I had on this issue of allowing the crafts and those kind of activities, making of them and selling of them as part of the allowable use within the buildingsthatweareindicatingwe€regoingtoapproveandthediscussionthatIguessfromthe applicant€s point of view right now as proposed those buildings that we are, that are being recommended to be approved by the Director do not have sufficient space to meet those uses. My suggestion would be and I€d like to query the applicant as to if we allowed the area of Building M to be expanded to 7500 square feet, 2500 above the present 5000 square feet, and then whether that gives you enough square footage to make adjustment in the plans that you€re going to have to submit to the Director for approval to allow for these activities that are being suggested will amend and allow? Would that be an avenue that sounds acceptable to you? GRAHAM:Go ahead. GOLDING, G.:Yes that will be fine. I think I misunderstood the question earlier. That would be a great solution I believe. IWASHITA:Thank you. GRAHAM:All right then I think we€re at the point, if none of the other Commissioners has anything to be said we can take the public testimony. So maybe you folks could back up now and then you€ll come back afterwards. There€s a swearing in we do on the public testimony and I need to find my script for how to properly do the swearing in here so- hold on just a minute please. I think I have it here so. I believe I have Marsha Cavers, Wayne Stier and David Martinez willing to testify, wanting to testify today. You folks could all come up to the table right now and share the 2 microphones. And let me swear all 3 of you in at first if I could. So first, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. GRAHAM:Thank you. And as I call each one of you, we€d ask you to state your name and your address, your residence address and then you can proceed with your testimony. So could I start with you Marcia, Marcia Cavers? EXHIBIT B 35 CAVERS:My name is Marcia Cavers and I live on Catamaran Lane and we use those numbers so rarely since we don€t have any postal service. 92-8608, I think, Catamaran Lane. And I€ve been living in Ocean View almost 9 years and I wanted to just say that I am extremely excited about this concept being developed by Gary Golding because we are desperate. We have a dirth (phonetic) of places for anything to happen. I have been with the Garden Club and we have struggled to find anyplace to gather. One of the places that has been used has been a local church and there€s like 20, 30 groups fighting for time to meet there. We have met in the open air at our park, which is great for sports, but it€s lousy for a meeting. And we have not had good facilities with our Community Center so we€re hurting for places to gather for our simple clubs. And I€m also a teacher of English as a second language and many times part of that teaching involves performance so that people can really get a chance to do what they€re learning. And so I use theatre in a small scale for any age group and we need a place to do this. And there€s other Hawaiian groups too who have now lost the one place that they had to gather to do Hawaiian performance. So we need places for not only the crafts but other skills to be able to gather. GRAHAM:First I€d like to ask if any of the Commissioners have any questions or feedbackonyourtestimony?Allright,thankyou.Nowwe€llmovetoWayneStieristhat correct? STIER:It€s Stier. GRAHAM:Stier excuse me. STIER:No problem. My name is Wayne Stier. I live on Catamaran at the same number and I cannot tell you what it is. But if you- I could ask her if you want me to. I am a writer and wood carver and an actor. And I have no place to sell my wood but at my garage basically or I could go down to galleries outside of our community, which would rob the community of the fact that we have an artist, several artists there but they have no way, no venue for that. As far as theatres concern I think that the opportunity for writers to have a reader€s theatre to have some reading, do a reading in front of people would be great. We could have bookstores. We could do readings there. As far as a carver€s concern I- it seems to me that if somebody else saw what I was doing and saw how much fun I was having there€d be a lot of people doing some carving. And it€d be ashamed to have that wasted. So, we do need the spaces my wife said. We have the opportunity; we have a lot of people like me. I started a artists group just informally 3 years ago to just see what we had. And I had 10 people at every meeting and every meeting 10 different people. So we have a lot of artists that just haven€t got any place to meet or any reason to get together. And it€s non-sustainable for artists unless you have a venue, non-sustainable for theatre unless you have a venue, for musical groups, non-sustainable. We can€t do it unless we have venues for them to play. And this is the first opportunity I€ve seen in the 9 years that we€ve lived there for this possibility. I am craving it. I need it very much. I hope that you approve it. Thank you. GRAHAM:Thank you Mr. Stier. Any questions from the Commissioners? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Mr. Spier is it? EXHIBIT B 36 GRAHAM:Stier. IWASHITA:Stier. I€m sorry Mr. Stiers. STIER:As in bull. IWASHITA:Thank you. Okay. Which I€m sure you are. Thanks for coming today. I just wanted to ask if you would be one of the intended tenants to do your work in? STIER:Very possibly. Very possibly. I€ve been looking for a gallery and I€d rather do it locally so that other people can get the same energy. It would be wonderful. Yes I would be. IWASHITA:Andofthesoundslikedozensofotherartiststhatyou€vemetintheOcean View community you have a sense of how many of them would be particularly interested in renting these spaces? STIER:It would be real interesting if we have a critical mass of a group thatcould run it as a coop situation. I would hope that we€d have enough artists to supply a gallery and the gallery could do it as a professional on profit basis and not have people trying to sell their own works, worst thing in the world to try to do. So, I would hopefully there€d be enough artists to support a gallery I can tell you that. Whether they would be the people that would be the renters themselves or the supporter, the suppliers of the gallery that would have to be seen. IWASHITA:Thank you. GRAHAM:Commissioner Salavea did you- question? SALAVEA:Yes. I guess, part of your, the last part of your answer kind of is modifying what I€m thinking and I guess I€d like to find out from you what you would see as being. Or if you had any discussions with the Goldings about what would be a fair charge or what would be sustainable for artists of your scale to rent out the spaces and if that discussion had gone on yet and also what would you be able to afford in terms of renting or using, utilizing that space. STIER:I€m an artist not a merchant and I really can€t answer that question. But I would like to offer this and that is that when peoplethink of Ocean View they don€t think of art. Somebody starts up an art gallery in OceanView, that€s not going to make a name for itself they€re going to say Ocean View art? Somebody built it in the wrong spot. After a while they€ll come, some people stop in there and they see thatthe art is of value. Then another person sees that and they build another art gallery right next to it. In a matter of 5 or 10 years this could become an artist center. We€re right next to the Volcano National Park now and if we€re going to be an entry place it would be nice to have, a place where art and culture could be in there. Right now it has no place to rest there€s just nothing, it€s not going to happen there. It€s going to go right on by us to Naalehu or like it does now it goes over to Hilo or comes down here. We EXHIBIT B 37 th don€t have-. Potentially you€re looking at the 4 key metropolitan area in- on this island as far as I can see. You have Waimea up north and Hilo and Kona. You need something down south and Ocean View is the most obvious place for it right now. And so this kind of structure would lead other people to think we don€t have to put up tin houses now. We don€t have to think of rd ourselves as a 3 world country in the Wild West. We can start putting up beautiful buildings and aim at culture. We have to build it ourselves. We don€t have any community except for a sense of place we have to build it ourselves. Why not build it around art about, around community activities. This can present that. I know Gary. I know Gary and Cris and it would be anathema for them to have a car-painting place. But I understand you would have to put the restrictions on the property you can€t put it on the owners cause then the owners when they sell you€d have to set it up again. I understand your consideration. But the need is there; the need is there so much that it can be fulfilled without having to have that heavy industry there. SALAVEA:Thank you and I fully support your statement. And I guess the concern that the majority of the- well speaking for myself and possibly for the other Commissioners is that we want to make sure that the intent of those buildings we understand it correctly to be public and community use and accessed by local artists from the area. And that the use follows along that intention rather than being later on you know diluted by possibly, in my mind I see it assupplyanddemand.Youknowthespacewillbevaluableandwewanttomakesurethatit€s intended for your you know, that use and its going to be- it€s going to be used within that and it stays within that use. So to make sure your concerns are appreciated and written in and thank you. GRAHAM:Just in support of what Commissioner Salavea was saying I just wanted to let you folks know that you know as sitting Commissioners we do hear from actions, from Commission actions of 5 years ago and more where such and such has happened in the meantime so we€re dealing with it. So, we foresee what others may have to deal with in the future. Any rd other questions from other Commissioners? All right then our 3 testifier is David Martinez and would you give your name and address first please? MARTINEZ:My name is Dave Martinez. I€m at 92-8765 Orchid Parkway, Ocean View. I just wanted to say that Gary and Crissy have shared their plan with me. I understand that it€s rare for somebody to want to develop but yet develop a commercial development in a park-like setting so I think this is a unique situation. For me having a community asset down there that is still not just concrete and steal but is trees in a more natural setting is a good asset to the community and it€s something I don€t have to pay for as a taxpayer. So, I commend them on theirvisionandIhopethatyouseefittoworkwiththeminordertofulfillthisvisionbecauseI think it would be a great asset to the community. Thank you very much. GRAHAM:Thank you Dave. Do we have any questions from the Commissioners? Allrightthankyouall3ofyou.Thanksforyourpatience.Sotheapplicantscancomeforward. My inclination- yes, Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Well, why don€t you finish what you were going to say first. EXHIBIT B 38 GRAHAM:My inclination is to say we need to try to focus on the specifics of the matter at hand but also-. And so, probably I would start there with what the Planning Director foresaw as how we could resolve the issues remaining but also if you had any comments you wanted to make to make that arose out of this testimony. It certainly seemed like it was all supportive testimony so I don€t think there€s any particular comments that are suggested but if you had anything to say you€re certainly welcome to do that first. ROLAND:I would just like to say that I think we misunderstood something. If you€re willing to give us more square footage on M in some form or another. Actually M is a very small building with a large deck. It has a small footprint with 2 stories and I think we can expand that building in some way if that helps facilitate things. I think I€d like to hear what you all have to say about that and whatever else you€re proposing. We€re open to almost anything at this point. GRAHAM:Okay.CommissionerSiracusa? SIRACUSA:IwantedtosaythatIlikethisprojectalot.Iliketoseeadevelopment where the developers are thinking out of the box and not- and in terms of aesthetics and not just the bottom line and everything else be dammed. I would like to see it go forward and I would like to see what we can do to help that happen. I still feel that the request to have a light industrial component runs really contrary to what the applicants are envisioning and it also for a lot of us Commissioners I think it opens up a can of worms in terms of what things are allowed in a light industrial area that we wouldn€t want to see there. And so, I€m wondering is there a process where at this point, I€m asking this now of Director Yuen, where we can delete the light industrial component or would the applicant have to go back to the drawing board or what€s the process here? If everyone agrees that that might be the way to go. YUEN:I definitely don€t want to send them back to the drawing board. Here€s my suggestion and this will mean when we redo- if this passes in the form we€ll-. In addition to, the way the permits come out if you look at the recommendation it starts off with a paragraph that talks about what is approved in the special permit. And then it has a bunch of conditions at the end. We will rewrite this slightly and we will add some things to the conditions so let me- my suggestion and let me see if this wording works for the applicant so that in-. We would expand the size of Building M to 7500 square feet I think that was the discussion, which is-. And then we would say that in Buildings S and M the applicants can establish offices, meeting spaces and workshop spaces for crafts persons and artists. Does that work for you as a limitation? ROLAND:Yes that works and retail also, retail sales. YUEN:Well the retail sales you have a gallery and that€s where it€s limited to crafts and art- what did I say? Crafts and-? WATANABE:Art in the district. YUEN:Pardon me? EXHIBIT B 39 WATANABE:You said crafts produced in the Ka€u district. YUEN: Yeah, put crafts and items, craft items produced in the Ka€u district. Crafts and art items produced in the Ka€u district that€s the limitation there. So it€s not somebody, we€re not approving a video rental space; you know the whole range of things that fall under retail. Now people can, people can sell out of their own, out of their own workspaces they could sell what they€re producing and they could also sell that at the gallery. And that€s what I would say is the limitation here. GOLDING, G.:Oh that would be great. I was just; we were just concerned about our recycle store, the second hand. YUEN:Right that€s in there already. GOLDING,G.:That€sintherealready,okaythat€sfine. YUEN:So,soletmespecificallyandI€veamendedsomeconditionsearlierthose would still stand. But what I would- to do this what I would specifically say is this. This would amendments to number 2. The first part, the first, number 2 stands and then it would say in buildings S & M, applicants can establish offices, meeting spaces, and workshop spaces for crafts persons and artists. And then we say, we add to this, architectural details of the buildings may differ from the application. And this is because we€re; this is to make it clear that there€s some leeway in how the buildings are laid out because now we€re talking about a bigger building. And we started off the condition by saying that it had to be in substantial conformance to the application but then we€re contemplating a building that€s a little bit different. So, to make it clear that they€re not stuck with exact design that they came in with. And just in general we wouldn€t do that because people always change with time. I mean people, people change what they€re doing in the middle of building sometimes so those would be the changes to number 2. And then number 4 where it says Building M shall be no larger than 5,000 square feet we would say 7500 square feet. GOLDING, G.:That would be fine with us. GRAHAM:Does that complete what you had Mr. Yuen? YUEN:Yes. GRAHAM:All right. Did you have a response first then I have-. GOLDING, G.:I just had one other thing I didn€t know if we solved number 7 which was the water, bottled water. GRAHAM:Yeah I don€t know if we solved that either I- as I recall your concern was that additional infrastructure or technologies may provide other alternatives for you and you don€t want to be stuck with the specifics here was that correct? EXHIBIT B 40 ROLAND:Well, at this time we would have to comply with the Health Department€s rules for bottled water as it is hauled and stored and we intend to do that. It doesn€t mention it here you know it just says bottled water only so it should say and potable water as approved by the Health Department or something to that nature. YUEN:Well this gets to a little bit of a technical question. I wouldn€t have a problem with saying that you provide either bottled water or trucked water from a potable source or from a public water- trucked in water from a public water system. I- we€ve been putting this conditions on all the overnight facilities like bed and breakfasts that don€t have a connection to a County approved drinking water source. The way you€re wording it I€m not sure will work because the Department of Health has no standards for catchment. They let you use catchment but they have no standards for it. And, our concern with this is maintaining some overall level of quality for people that come to the islands as guests of commercial establishments. We have a visitor economy. It would be very bad if there are stories appear in the mainland papers about peopleinHawaiicomeandstayinabedandbreakfastandgetleptospirosis.Ifyouhavesome kind of proposal in the future that is going to work for the Department of Health and then again we can come in with a amendment to the conditions of approval. This bottled water thing applies, it€s only for overnight guests. ROLAND:Oh that€s fine. Thank you. GRAHAM:Commissioner Siracusa do you have something further? SIRACUSA:Well, I just wanted to say that the way it€s worded, the applicant should provide bottled water for guests‚, it doesn€t say that they cannot also provide water from a catchment tank that has- that€s delivered from potable sources and put in a food-grade liner if the guests choose to avail themselves to that. YUEN:And that€s true for our bed and breakfast as well, which may have a sink. There€s nothing that keeps somebody from drinking out of the sink. SIRACUSA:It doesn€t say only. YUEN:We do haunt them, when people have, are essentially on a catchment or non County system we do- we are putting this in as a standard condition so that it€s there and you know people can, the guests can drink bottled water. There€s no way short of not letting them have plumbing in the unit that we can prevent them from being able to drink the catchment water if that€s what the guests chooses to do. SIRACUSA:If we€re ready I€m willing to make the motion unless anyone else has anything to say? GRAHAM:Commissioner Salavea? SALAVEA:Yes I have, I€m not sure, I think this is more of a comment for the Goldings. I want to commend you for the foresight and the vision to develop this type of facility EXHIBIT B 41 for your area but I would like to-. Well the first part would be a question, has there been any cost estimate for what it would take for the artists, or how much it would cost the artists to rent out those spaces that you designed? GOLDING, G.:No we haven€t done any cost estimates on renting it out. We just did a cost estimate on the overall project so far and-. ROLAND:We anticipate that our square footage cost will be significantly lower than what€s available there now and what it will actually be is very hard to determine. But our intent will be in fact to have smaller spaces and rent that will be affordable and practical for the area. And I think we can do that. SALAVEA:And this is the comment part of what I€m saying is I€d like to encourage you to do whatever is possible to make sure, to ensure that the intent of what we are suggesting inortheconditionsthatwe€remodifyingfortheusageofpublicandtheartisansinthearea remain affordable as much as possible. My greatest, one of my greatest fears in looking at the project is that demand for the space will, by other entities you know that could say oh yeah, I€m associated with an artist and I rent out the space but the usage goes to something else. That€s my fear is that they get squeezed out because of the, I guess the margin that they make is not very significant. And also for the non-profits and the community groups the spirit of what you€re writing and you propose is awesome and we need more of it but sometimes I find the reality and the bottom line factors into what the eventuality use and I want to encourage you to stay true to what you propose. ROLAND:Thank you for those comments. It is sort of difficult but at the same time if that€s your intent you can achieve it. This is something that can be done. SALAVEA:Thank you. GRAHAM:Thank you. Any other Commissioners? GOLDING, G.:I would like to reply on that also. That is our plan to stick with that and I think we can. I know you€re worried about a bidding war on-. With the Pahui Plaza I think that€s intended, is going to be growing soon also. That should alleviate or add more space to a lot of the areas and we should be able to not get into a bidding war and raise our prices sky high. We want to keep it for the people of the community. That€s our goal. GRAHAM:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yeah. First I just wanted to preface my motion by telling Commissioner Salavea that generally speaking artists put their work in the gallery, galleries typically work on a 30 to 40% commission. That€s the way it typically runs and so the artists usually don€t have to rent a space unless it turns out that they€re doing so well and they have to have so much production that they need more space than the gallery can afford to give them because the gallery has to sort of spread out their wall space and their floor space among a whole bunch of other artists. So, if someone€s doing really well in the gallery then that means that they would be able EXHIBIT B 42 then to afford a space of their own. Anyway, if everyone is ready I would like to make a motion. I move that the application for special permit SPP 05-011 be approved based on the Planning Director€s recommendation and proposed conditions including the change to the first paragraph of the Special Permit Application Recommendations, the changes to conditions number 2, 4, 6, 10 and 11 as discussed at this meeting. And 5? Excuse me. And 5, I€m sorry that was the landscaping. Thank you. GRAHAM:Is there a secondforthe motion? SALAVEA:Second. GRAHAM:It€s been moved by Commissioner Siracusa and seconded by Commissioner Salavea for approval here. Can we have any discussion from the Commissioners? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Thank you. I just want to make it clear that the motion also is to include thePlanningDirector€srecommendationthatthe-astothedenialofthebuildingsL2,L3and buildings A, B and C. GRAHAM:Is that your understanding Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:That was my understanding when I referred to the changes in the first paragraph. GRAHAM:And Mr. Salavea? SALAVEA:Yes. GRAHAM:Yes okay. Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:No that was the exact point I was going to bring up. GRAHAM:Okay very good. Jeff is it clear to you that the Commissioners kind of have it all straight here cause there€s been so many changes or is there some clarifications you€d like to make so make sure we€re all agreed? Yeah, if Jeff is comfortable it€s all been delinieted clear and he doesn€t have any he wants to clarify I€m fine with that. DARROW:I€ll be working closely with our Planning Director and Lynette to make sure we€re clear. GRAHAM:Yeah, the balls in the court of the Commissioners right now so they gotta know what they€re voting on yeah? DARROW:Yeah. EXHIBIT B 43 GRAHAM:Okay. Do we have any other discussion on this? All right Jeff go ahead with the roll call then. This is on a motion for approval in part and denial in part in the way expressed by Commissioner Siracusa. DARROW:Thank you Mr. Chair. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Salavea? SALAVEA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Aye. DARROW:CommissionerMcCall? MCCALL:Aye. DARROW:CommissionerWatanabe? WATANABE:Aye. DARROW:And Mr. Chair? GRAHAM:Aye. DARROW:The motion passes 6 to 0. GOLDING, C.:Thank you. GRAHAM:Thank you all for all your efforts and it took a while but I think we got it clear and worked out. ROLAND:This has been very educational. I loved it and it€s very fair for one another. I really appreciate your time. This discussion ended at 12:50 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Lynette Sanemitsu, West Hawai i Secretary EXHIBIT B 44