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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-08-05 TMIRANDA01 PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI€I HEARING TRANSCRIPT AUGUST 5, 2005 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of MELVIN W. MIRANDA, SR. (SPP 05-009)was called to order at 11:55 a.m. in the County Building, Councilroom - Room 201, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawai€i, with Chairman Fred Galdones presiding from 11:55 a.m. to 12:13 p.m. and Second Vice-Chairman C. Kimo Alameda from 12:13 p.m. to 2:15 p.m. PRESENT: Fred Galdones ABSENT & EXCUSED: Hannah Springer C. Kimo Alameda Bill Graham Andrew Iwashita Jeffrey McCall AllenSalavea Rene Siracusa Rodney Watanabe Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher J. Yuen, Planning Director Norman Hayashi, Planning Program Manager Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 16 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: MELVIN W. MIRANDA, SR. (SPP 05-009) Continued hearing on the application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a contractors base yard on approximately one acre of land situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located along the north (makai) side of the Hawai€i Belt Highway (Highway 19) at approximately 47.5-mile marker, Kapoaula, Hamakua, Hawai€i, Tax Map Key 4-7-7: portion of 55. GALDONES:Commissioners, we are on Agenda Item No. 2. The applicant is MELVIN W. MIRANDA, SR. (SPP 05-009). This is a continued hearing on the application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a contractors base yard on approximately one acre of land situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. Jeff? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could direct the Commissioners attention to the location map on the board. The area of this application is within the Hamakua district of Hawai€i. This white line running in a EXHIBIT B East-West direction across the map is identified as Mamalahoa Highway/Highway 19 which is under the jurisdiction of the State Department of Transportation. The area of this application is identified in red. Just to kind of give you a little bit of reference, this area here is Honokaa town. The area of the application is at approximately the 47.5 mile marker on Mamalahoa Highway. Access to the property is via Parcel 53 which is an access easement; and its identified on the map as a roadway lot that kind of borders the applicants property. The applicant in this case, Melvin W. Miranda, Sr. is requesting to legitimize an operation of an existing contractors yard on 1 acre of land on a 17.293 acre parcel within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The applicant is wanting to provide services to ranchers, farmers, and anyone that is need of trucking-type activities. The applicant hauls livestock, water, ranching materials, aggregate, and containers, as well as other items that are in need of trucking services. The equipment that the applicant owns has been listed withintheapplication.Imnotgoingintogreatdetailidentifyingitall.Butthereisa letter from the applicant that identifies all the different pieces of equipment owned by the applicant. The Planning Director is recommending that the Planning Commission deny this application. The recommendation, the denial recommendation is based on several negative factors. A primary negative factor is the cost of being able to provide a safe access point onto Mamalahoa Highway. The other negative factors could be potentially mitigated through conditions. Id like to point out a portion of the recommendation that we have a typo that wed like to address and then I would like to read that area. This is on page 4 of the recommendation. The last paragraph on sentence two, it begins with the word ‚This.ƒ The word that we would like to include is ‚This would not entirely eliminate.ƒ The word ‚notƒ has been deleted and needs to be inserted in between ‚wouldƒ and ‚entirely.ƒ SIRACUSA:Excuse me could you please clarify where I will find that again. DARROW:Page 4 on the recommendation, the bottom paragraph, sentence two. SIRACUSA:Okay, would you repeat the correction then, again. DARROW:This would be the insertion of the word ‚notƒ in between ‚wouldƒ and ‚entirely.ƒ Ill read the sentence, ‚This would not entirely eliminate safety issues.ƒ If I could read this particular area of the recommendation, it states that ‚The alternative to a denial recommendation would be to recommend approval with a condition that the applicant construct a left-turn pocket and acceleration and deceleration lanes along Mamalahoa Highway. This would not entirely eliminate safety issues because of the potential for fog, and it is not an economically sensible option. The cost of these improvements would be in the range of $300,000 to $500,000. Some of the sites zoned 2EXHIBIT B for light industrial, such as Kawaihae and Garys Automotive area near the Waimea Airport, have not been developed because of the cost of infrastructure. It would be better to have businesses spend the money upgrading such sites rather than improving an agricultural property.ƒ Since our last hearing, weve received several correspondences. One is from Mr. Freddy Rice; hopefully, you folks got a copy of that. If not, it is included in the submittal that weve received today from the applicants representative, Attorney Robert Rodrigues; and that is the second correspondence. It is in response to the Planning Directors recommendation. Are there any questions? GALDONES:Commissioners, any questions of Jeff? Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yeah, okay, in the Background Report, page 4, No. 25, under PUBLICSERVICESANDFACILITIES,Access,itsays‚TheDepartmentofPublic Works commented that access to the property is via Parcel 53, which is a private right-of- way owned by Elwood Ramos.ƒ And I would like to know or if you can tell me if an easement has been granted to the applicant by this Mr. Ramos? DARROW:Yes, it has, Commissioner Siracusa. I believe that information is made part of the record. SIRACUSA:And how wide is this? DARROW:Its a 60-foot right-of-way. As far as the pavement width, it varies. There are some pictures that are, right here, Commissioner McCall, that are being passed around that identify the different pavement widths there. Let me find that information that youre requesting. Theres an Easement A document that has been submitted by the applicant via fax, and this is dated 6/17/2005 and it identifies the easement for Parcel 55. And I believe that additionally there was warranty deed which identifies, okay, Easement A-.IfIcouldlookforthatinformationmorespecifically,thenIllbeabletobringthat to your attention. I do have a copy of the warranty deed and I can go through that. But, thee is the access easement that has been submitted with the -. SIRACUSA:Okay, thank you. Ill take your word for that. I have another question; and that is on that same page, the bottom of that page and the top of the next which is A, it says that ‚In addition, this use would be better located within an industrial area.ƒ And Im wondering are there industrial areas within, say, that -. We usually look at a 5-mile radius, dont we? Because we had come up with some things in the Waimea area where there were no industrial zoned properties within a certain radius, and Im wondering if there is an industrial area around there. DARROW:The closest industrial area from this application that Im aware of are the old camps; and I believe Paauhau camp had an industrial down below where theres the existing site. Theres, unfortunately this map doesnt show those areas on there; but there are specific areas that were relative to the camps that contain the 3EXHIBIT B industrial operations of the sugar cane mills. And, unfortunately, I dont know if those are available to be, you know, they may be actually taken at this time. So the other areas that we looked at are as mentioned in the recommendation. Garys Automotive is industrial as well as Kawaihae; and then recently we had the special permit for Parker Ranch near the Saddle Road junction, that 15-acre parcel there, thats not industrial but it has been allowed for industrial uses under the special permit. SIRACUSA:Thank you. YUEN:As far as zoned areas, there is industrial zoning next to Paauhau camp where the mill was. I dont know if thats available for lease. There is industrial zoning at the Haina power plant in Honokaa. I dont know if theres any available for lease there. We, the Garys Automotive is undeveloped, zoned industrial. There is zoned industrial at Kawaihae. I believe thats also unavailable. We did encourage Parker Ranchtoseekaspecialpermitforanarea,a15-acreareathatwouldaccommodateuses of this sort because of the difficulty of people in this type of business to secure sites; and that was processed and approved by the Commission. And Mr. Miranda was on that site. Unfortunately, he no longer has a lease within that site. GALDONES:Further questions? Commissioner Graham. GRAHAM:Jeff, just a question kind of on the history of the easement thats there right now, and you can pass this to the applicant if you feel it more appropriate. But Im just wondering about the paved access that we see now to the highway. I know the State kind of has a corridor that they own on the highway and all like that. Is there a normal process that one goes through when you have an easement to a State Highway to connect up like that, and did this applicant need to do that, or is this kind of commonly done, what was done or -? Just give me a little background on that, please. DARROW:As far as the applicants dealings with the Department of Transportation, Im unsure about that. But I know they have been working in conjunction with them. But there is a process of being able to get a permitted access onto the Department of Transportations corridor. You have to submit a permit application and theyll either approve it or not approve it. So I -. GRAHAM:So as far as whether this was already done in this case is it was or was not, or -? DARROW:No, it was. There, according to the pictures, it appears that theres an access that was done. This could have been in regards to the easement, easement on Parcel 53. In regards to actual construction, that was done recently where there was asphalt brought to that. Im not sure if that was something that was previously permitted or if thats something that was just done recently from the applicant. That, if we could defer that question to the applicant. GRAHAM:Okay, thank you. 4EXHIBIT B DARROW:Thank you. GALDONES:Any further questions of Jeff? Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA:Is there a full copy of the deed for the property? DARROW:This morning we were able to get a copy of the full deed to the property. We only have one copy at this time. If its okay with the Chairman, if I could pass this around. And, also, what well do is try to get a copy made for the applicants representative. It does also answer the question that Commissioner Siracusa asked in regards to the access easement within this document. So if I could go ahead and pass this around. This will reflect -. Thank you. GALDONES:Jeff,anythingfurther? DARROW:No,notatthistime.Thankyou. GALDONES:Commissioners,anyfurtherquestions?Ifnot,Commissionersand Members of the public, I need to excuse myself because of a conflict in schedule; and I will be turning the chair over to Commissioner Alameda. But before we proceed forward, unfortunately the first hearing that we had, first application, it took much, much longer than we had anticipated it would. And what wed like to ask the public in presenting testimony, I hate to do this, but in the interest of trying to accommodate everybody, I know all of you have been sitting here for a long period of time, at least some of you three hours now, if you could limit your testimonies to three minutes, that would be very much appreciated. And, also, we could expedite it and also try to take care of everybody else without having to sit here much longer than you have to. I would appreciate that, if you would be able to do that, and not to repeat the testimony that somebody had already presented. And, hopefully, well be able to get out of here because we have a long agenda, and get out of here in a timely fashion and trying to accommodate everybody. So if you could do that, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you. ALAMEDA:Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I also had some work obligations this morning but apparently things worked out where I could come in the afternoon and our Commissioner Galdones can now leave. So, we have a little tag team going on. Id like to start by saying is there any more in terms of the background information? DARROW:No, thank you. ALAMEDA:Okay. Applicant, did you get a report of the Departments Recommendation? 5EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:Yes. ALAMEDA:Any questions? MIRANDA:No, not at this time. ALAMEDA:Did you get a chance to get sworn in? MIRANDA:Whats that? ALAMEDA:Did you get sworn -? MIRANDA:No. ALAMEDA:No,okay.Iwouldliketodothatatthistime.Pleaseraiseyour right hand, both of you. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter beforethe Hawai€i Planning Commission? MIRANDA:I do. RODRIGUES:I do. ALAMEDA:Okay. Could you please state your name and address, and you can go ahead, and if you have any comments, additional comments -. MIRANDA:My name is Melvin W. Miranda, Sr. My address is 45-504 Loki Street, Honokaa, Hawai€i. My mailing address is PO Box 3000, Kamuela, HI. RODRIGUES:My name is Robert S. Rodrigues. Im an attorney. My office is 66411 Bucky Hill, Waimea, or Kamuela. Thank you. ALAMEDA:Mr. Rodrigues and Mr. Miranda, I just got a copy of this document. And for the sake of time, would you mind summarizing this for me? RODRIGUES:Yes, in the interest of time. ALAMEDA:Thank you. RODRIGUES:There are 13 exhibits. What we tried to do is take the Department of Plannings recommendation of denial and examined each one of the grounds for the denial. Some of them were easy; some of them were very ambiguous and tough; and some we were even unsuccessful in what I consider a full refutation of what the Director recommended. When you look at the exhibits, I think what you need to focus on in particular is Exhibit 10. Exhibit 10 is a series of photographs, and I wont spend a lot of time because we 6EXHIBIT B have a witness who took the photographs. Exhibit 10 shows pretty much the before and after the warning was letter was sent and the notice of violation and order. In other words, there have some mitigation out there and some good faiths efforts to correct the situation as was seen from the highway. Thats Exhibit 10. Exhibit 11 I believe is a pie chart. We have a witness that prepared that pie chart and brought all of the supporting documents from the office in a brief case. There are about 1000 pages. And the point of that pie chart is to show you what a business which can be considered as an accessory to agricultural activity really looks like according to Act 205, the so-called land use law. And that pie chart will show you that, as near as we can tell, over a 18-month period Miranda Trucking does 61 percent hauling in Ag. And that was computed using trip tickets from the drivers because it shows the mileage, it shows the time it took to haul it, and the cargo and the type of vehicle, 61 percent. Thirty-nine percent is what Miranda Trucking calls non-ag; but there even within that number we couldntunscrambleittothepointwherewhathappensifyoutakeasplitloadtoaranch and you bring in concrete for fence posts but youre also hauling out backhaul trash. So marginally we put that in the 39 percent non-ag. So thats one. And then the other one is the big issue of fairness. And the Commission members hit it right on the head already, and Im really pleased to hear the questions about availability of industrial areas in Waimea, particularly dealing with Parker Ranch. Everybody knows Parker Ranch, everybody loves Parker Ranch. If you get a chance, and Ill summarize my brief history of Miranda Trucking. Its a 20-year old company, 22 years old. For years it was leasing from Parker Ranch at Pukulani Stables; then came Holoholoku; and all of a sudden they didnt want an agricultural hauling company there. That hurt. What didnt hurt so bad was they also had their eye on that land as part of their Trust to expand North Hawaii Community Hospital. Who ate it? Miranda Trucking ate it. But what did Parker Ranch do? Sweat deal, go out to West Hawaii Concrete, thats where you can stay for a grand total of less than four months, two weeks notice youre out of there. Why was the given answer? I dont know. It has nothing to do with zoning or anything like that. The given answer was were going to further develop this property, out Miranda Trucking. Who did Miranda Trucking or Melvin Miranda buy this 17 acres from? Parker Ranch wanted to dump it. He bought it. Where is he to go? Commissioners, I heard you say Kawaihae unavailable, Garys Automotive in Lalamilo undeveloped, Parker Ranch closing everything down. Ranchers are here today, other agricultural dealers like RR Olson are here today. The fire that we have at Lapakahi State Park and Waikoloa, the trucks are not here today because theyre out there fighting it. But thats where Miranda Trucking was for the past week, hauling water so that the homeowners could shoot from their own private water resources. See? So thats the issue. I summarized it. You can read it all if you want to, but youre already there, I can tell. Thanks. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Mr. Rodrigues, could we then submit this for the record, those exhibits? 7EXHIBIT B RODRIGUES:Absolutely, I hoped you would. We, without prejudice to calling our witnesses, are mindful of Commissioner Galdones comment about three minutes, with the exception of one witness which we consider an expert witness, and thats former Councilman Michael Tulang whos here. ALAMEDA:Would you like to call him at this time? RODRIGUES:Pretty much so. I know youre trying to get rid of me, but everybody else should be limited to about three minutes. We can do that, okay? But Mr. Tulang probably will take a little bit longer. Okay? Thank you. ALAMEDA:Question, Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes, I had a question. In the background report, right at the very beginning,itreferstospecialpermittoallowtheestablishmentofacontractorsbase yard. And Im wondering if, Mr. Miranda is being called a contractor, obviously, and I would like to know if he has an APC license or -? RODRIGUES:You know, thats addressed in the memo; and thats one of the finer points. I wrestled with that. In fact, I wrestled Mr. Miranda and his office manager. I said, ‚What the hell is a contractors yard?ƒ I said ‚Youre not Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs where you have a contractors license. Why do you have that?ƒ I said ‚Youre a PUC operator. You have a PUC license.ƒ And the answer was, ‚Well, when we went down to the Planning Department to fill out our application, they didnt know how to classify us so they said contractors yard.ƒ And I said, ‚Well, what do you do?ƒ There go the pie chart. ‚What do you do?ƒ Obviously youre PUC regulated, youre not a contractor. When I think of contractor, I think of a base yard with trucks and retail people coming in and buying lumber, and cement bags, and this and that, and this and that. I dont expect to see four tractors and several cattle trailers and a forklift and a dump loader and thats it. I expect to see something about contracting. Thats not whats there. So this contractors yard thing really I think set this thing up on the wrong foot. It is not the contractors yard that you can think of HPM or anybody else, heavy, Willocks for example. Its not it. SIRACUSA:So then youre saying that just by beginning of the background report was a misnomer which doesnt really accurately describe whats on the ground, that its setting a negative tone for the whole application? Is that my understanding of your -? RODRIGUES:Absolutely, I got the assignment from Mr. Miranda the night before the last hearing, which was 30 days ago, and I saw that thing contractors yard, and I didnt even know what to say the next day in front of this Commission. ALAMEDA:Okay. Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:So, Mr. Miranda, you have a PUC license or -? 8EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:I have a PUC license. Im not a contractor. I dont have any contractors license. I was kind of wondering if the Planning Commission wanted to give our contractors license. If theyd like to give me one, maybe Id get into that business. No, its, truthfully, you know, because Ive been an ag hauler, and thats what I am. MCCALL:Okay, actually, one -. ALAMEDA:Go ahead, Commissioner McCall. MCCALL:Im not sure whether its a question to Mr. Miranda. Just for my information, I think, primarily but in the agricultural industry you can get an exemption to do, if you are supposedly primarily say a farmer you can use your equipment to do hauling without a PUC license? Is that correct? But you choose to get a PUC license, or isthatyourprimary,youareprimarilyahauler? MIRANDA:Youknow,yearsagowhenIstartedmybusinessin82,in83,the first time I went on the pier and pulled a container out for an ag guy I had the PUC jumping down my throat. The wanted to charge me fines. And every, about ten truckers on this island were all against me. And all I wanted to do was earn a living for me and my family. And you know what, for 22 years it has been an up and down roller coaster. Every time I get going and I think nobody is going to bother me, somebody else does. And being, well, a Planning Commission or Planning Department back in 1990 I guess, I had problems when I lived right next to Nani Waimea Street on 5 acres and I had to go through, well, I got letters saying that they wanted to charge me $1,000 a day fine for parking my trucks on my property; and I went days I couldnt sleep. Okay? And I had to go through, get support. Then I had Sandy Schutte, was my attorney representing me; and she researched the thing and finally found that everybody in ag, all the farmers on Maui, all the farmers in Waimea and Volcano, and most of the ranchers were all breaking the law because they couldnt park their equipment on their own land. And that loophole was solved. And I got a special permit to park my trucks on my property on Kahuakea Street, which theres a tow company now called ‚Tow Guys,ƒ they bought the property after I got divorced. Okay, and then I moved to Parker Ranch, the old Parker Ranch; and I rented that space for, I think, nine or almost ten years. And like I said, then they gave it away to the hospital. And because of the Holoholoku development they didnt want a trucking business on that road because they were afraid to get sued by the Community Association. So they asked me if I would like to move out to West Hawaii Concrete; and I did. They had a 5-acre parcel there. I moved there, and I was there four months, well, really I moved there in June, or the end of June and in December they asked me to move. Why? Ill tell you why. Because they rented it to Glover Construction to put up the AC plant and Glover was going to rent the whole 5 acres and they get more money. So they asked me to leave. But cost me over $20,000 to move there. And I just put in the phone and electricity; and I had to go get engineer stamps to put the electricity in. The phone lines were all disconnected. I had to pull strings to get the phone in there. And I just had it, I got the phone and electricity like in September and that cost me over $5,000; and December I had to move out. You know, as a small businessman, its tough. And I said, 9EXHIBIT B you know what, I going move to my own place; and I wasnt ready to move. And within two weeks I had to put in my road and make a parking area that you could see in the black and white pictures in that folder; and thats where I parked everything and I said, you know what, Im not goingto park at Parker Ranch and spend any more money. Im paying the bank for my property, Im going to move to my own property so I dont have to move out gain. And slowly I developed the wholeroad down to the bottom of my property and, which is about 1600 feet off the highway. You cannot even see where Im at. Okay? Its like if you were on the other side of this building and this building was a hill okay, and you tried to look up to Kilauea Street, could you see the street? Well, you couldnt see the street. Well, where my base yard is at, its like looking the same way. I moved everything away from the highway so it doesnt mess with the beautification of ag land; and eventually I plan to build a house, about 800 feet away from the highway. But where I have my yard that I park my trucks at is like 1600 feet away. ALAMEDA:Mr.Miranda,IjustwantedtocheckwithMr.McCallifthat answers your question. MCCALL:Yeah, thank you. ALAMEDA:Okay. Go ahead, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yes. Are you the same Miranda who owns Miranda Country Store that sold farm equipment and feed and stuff like that? MIRANDA:Thats Wayne Miranda who is my cousin. SIRACUSA:Oh, okay. All right, so I had a question about that adverse negative visual impact; and I did see some of the photos that showed a whole lot of equipment, heavy equipment, and stuff like that, just lying around getting rusty and being an eyesore. Youre saying that all of that stuff -, cause we couldnt tell from the photos. It looks nice but you could just be, you know, moving the camera over and shooting at a different direction and showing us the good stuff. I have no way of knowing that, right? So I have to ask the question. Youre saying that you have moved a lot of that stuff and now it is not visible to any of the surrounding properties? MIRANDA:Yes. If you look at Exhibit 10, the picture on the Exhibit 10? SIRACUSA:Yes. MIRANDA:For every colored picture, except for the ones with the horses, the backup to that is one with the equipment. SIRACUSA:The one where you still have the roll of hogwire? 10EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:All the black and white pictures, if you look at the background you can see the trees, the eucalyptus trees, and thehighway and the phone line, the telephone line, its the same exact. We tried to duplicate every picture. SIRACUSA:From the same position, shooting from the same -? MIRANDA:From the same position. Okay, those, the first pictures, I guess, was taken by Mr. Darrow or somebody from the Planning Office. So we looked at the pictures and tried to shoot the same angle. And my daughter Michelle whos in the back here took all of those pictures. SIRACUSA:Thank you. That clarifies what were looking at a lot for me. ALAMEDA:Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Iwashita, did you have a question? IWASHITA:No. ALAMEDA:CommissionerSalavea? SALAVEA:Thankyou,Mr.Miranda.Sothelastpicturedepicting,right before the horse, sorry, not the last picture, the colored picture, right before the horse depicting the trucks and the forklift, thats the current location of all of your operations right now? MIRANDA:Yes. Thats like 1600 feet from the highway. SALAVEA:Okay. So the previous picture to that is where you had stored the equipment previously and now you moved that equipment further inland or off the highway? MIRANDA:Yeah. The area with the equipment on it now is the one acre of land that Im trying to have the special permit for. SALAVEA:Okay, okay. MIRANDA:If you look at the map, the area thats circled in red, this is where the equipment is parked right now. Okay. Previously it was parked up here, next to the highway. But along this whole area is like a big rock ridge that runs all the way down, all the way through the property. From the highway you can see the area that I used to park my equipment on, and this other area where I have a bulldozer right now. And I plan to build my house in that area, so all of that, the bulldozer is going to be moved out of there. SALAVEA:So the red area is the one acre that youre making the special permit for here today? 11EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:Yeah, this is the area; and then the area with the horses is from the red area down to the bottom. SALAVEA:Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. That puts the pictures into better perspective for me. Thank you very much. ALAMEDA:All right, Commissioners, before we, oh, go ahead, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yeah, just to continue so we get the whole picture, theres that narrow area outlined in green. And then do you own the property on either side of that? MIRANDA:No. I just own in, in the blue area. SIRACUSA:Oh,itsblue,okay. MIRANDA:Iownthisblueareafromthehighwaydown.Thisisthe60-foot wide easement that I built the road from here all the way down to the bottom that all existing landowners use. And I told them I dont expect anything in return, I built it for me and for them. SIRACUSA:So then the parcel owners on either side from a certain angle they would be able to see all your equipment and stuff like that, right? MIRANDA:This parcel on this side, nobody can see over this hill. SIRACUSA:Oh, theres an intervening hill? MIRANDA:My boundary runs right on top of the hill. SIRACUSA:Okay. MIRANDA:So even if they came up to their boundary, they couldnt see me from this side. SIRACUSA:Okay. And on the other side? MIRANDA:This parcel here, if you come down from about here, then you can see down the bottom of the hill, from this -. SIRACUSA:And how does that property owner feel about your -? MIRANDA:I think theres a letter of support in there. SIRACUSA:Is, whats the name? 12EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:A Japanese guy from Las Vegas, Mr. Fujinaga. He bought these 167 acres from Parker Ranch. SIRACUSA:Okay. What Im trying to get a handle on here is, since there was a question of visual impacts, Im trying to get a handle on who can see besides you where you have moved those two now. And if the one property owner who can see is in favor, then that knocks out really the concern about adverse negative visual impact. Thats what Im trying to clarify here. MIRANDA:Yeah, well, this property owner here just got a permit, I guess, and built a stonewall and a big, about half an acre of gravel that he plans to, I think, build a warehouse or something. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa, any more questions? SIRACUSA:No. ALAMEDA:Commissioners, before we move forward with the applicants witness,Ijustwanttomakesurethateverybodyisokaywithadmittingtheexhibitsfor the record or if you have any reservations. Okay, so let it be known that its okay to include that as part of the record. Thank you. Mr. Rodrigues, would you like to call your witness? RODRIGUES:Yes. Thank you. I have a brief clarification to Commissioner Siracusa. As to that adjacent property owner on the left-hand side as youre looking at the map, that is Mr. and Mrs. Fujinaga. If you look at our Exhibit 12, the second letter there is their letter of support; and thats the one Mr. Miranda explained to you might have some visual access to that depressed one-acre where he plans to park his vehicles and have light maintenance. SIRACUSA:Thank you. RODRIGUES:Thats Fujinaga. SIRACUSA:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Thank you. RODRIGUES:Our first witness Id like to introduce is former Councilman, retired Army officer, retired teacher, now rancher, Michael Tulang. I dont claim to be an expert in Act 205. My line of work takes me elsewhere in the law. I had to find one. I didnt have to look far. Michael Tulangs background besides having advanced degrees in agriculture from UH Manoa, bachelor of science, I mean, master of science degree, is an agricultural economist. He served with the Federal government most of his working career. He was the former executive director of the Hawaii Association of Conservation 13EXHIBIT B Districts. He was a liaison officer from the Natural Resources Conservation Service where he served many years as a conservation officer. ALAMEDA:Mr. Rodrigues, Im wondering if, sorry to interrupt. Im wondering if Mr. Tulang could giveus his background. RODRIGUES:He will, he will. I say that to thank him for spending the time with us and enlightening us on what 205 really means. So, its yours, Mike. ALAMEDA:Thank you. TULANG:Its almost embarrassing. Thank you, Butch. RODRIGUES:Okay. TULANG:Good afternoon, Chairman Alameda, Members of the Commission, DirectorChrisYuen.Itsnicetobebackbut,boy,youguyshavegottodosomething about the room temperature. ALAMEDA:Could I swear you in, Mr. Tulang? All right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawai€i Planning Commission? TULANG:I do. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Could you state your -? TULANG:My full name is Michael Conrado Tulang. I live at 2273 Piihonua Road. Im a member of the kumiai in my community. ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you. You may proceed. TULANG:Thank you. Thank you for that very generous introduction. Its really nice to be here to testify before the Planning Commission. Yes, my long career with the U.S. Department of Agriculture began as a Watershed Economist; and my specialty was in land use issues. You know, the issues in the 1970s when I launched my career after getting my masters at UH was still the same because society tried to use existing acts and, you know, acts -. At that time it was Act 205 and now it is Hawai€i Revised Statutes, Chapter 205. The issues are still the same. And to see you guys in action is really a gift because that is how we operate as a society, as a democratic society. So my objective here is not to give you a lesson on 205 but to give you some background. Specifically: One, to provide the Commission with some background information of the importance of agricultural trucking services to small agricultural companies in Hawai€i and the Big Islandand the recognition of this fact is embodied in HRS Chapter 205. And, secondly, to provide you with some detailed facts relating to the request for a 14EXHIBIT B special permit, looking at the land parcel itself and looking at what Act 205 addresses and the fact for support, supporting agricultural activities be located in agricultural districts. Okay, Chapter 205 recognizes these support activities to come in. During the last several years its really important as people in agriculture know that there has been a whole slew of agricultural thefts. I know of people that are losing backhoes, tractors, all kinds of equipment. And its really important that we farmers and ranchers really live where we have our equipment. Because a truck rig can run you quarter million dollars; and, you know, somebody can drive off with it. In the last couple of months I just bought a second-hand truck. It cost me $12,000 because it was by necessity. But prior to that in my 11 years as small ranchers we always depended on trucking services; and its no different. Agriculture is a business that requires trucking transportation services. We cannot over-capitalize. We cannot afford tohaveatractorrigsittingatour,inourlot.Wehavetocontractandwedependon people. In livestock hauling, it is a very specialized activity. He is one of the only trucking companies who would take his big rigs into unimproved roads. Theyre not a Mihara, theyre not a Kona Transportation, theyre not HT&T; but theyre the guys that you can identify with dirty truck tires and dented fenders because these are the people that go into the farm areas. They go along Mana Road to pick up cattle that Rancher Freddy Nobriga cant afford to maintain rigs or his neighbors cant maintain rigs, they have to contract with him. Chapter 205 is very specific in trying to encourage this kind of activities. But as I mentioned, within the last several years the whole issue on agricultural theft is hitting us right in the face, that farmers and ranchers want their stuff where they live. And I think thats his purpose, to live and to have his equipment there. One of the last things I did working for the Department was to administer a contract during one of the, the last drought we had on the Big Island. And we had to go through, I wasnt part of the selection committee. We had a selection committee that went through and selected a trucking company that would service people like, youll listen to Freddy Rice as he comes up later on to talk about how this trucking company service him. But one of my last duties with the USDA was to go and get a grant to help alleviate the drought conditions that were in 1985 in South Kohala and some of the North Kona areas. We had to find a trucker that was willing to go in, who had the capacity, was willing to go in on unimproved roads to, who really knew the local area. So what happened was he serviced all the ranchers on Mana Road, including all those farmers along the Hamakua agricultural ditch when they had to close it for repairs. It came at a bad time. It came, the construction had to go on onto the ditch to repair it, but it came during the drought. So he, their trucking company was the only trucking company that would do it. In fact, the story goes that he had gone into a fix, we had to dump his water because his truck was in danger, to lighten his load. But thats the kind of technique that you expect. We as small ranchers look at small specialized trucking services, people who knew cattle, who 15EXHIBIT B have the common sense to park the tractor-trailer under a tree or park it perpendicular to the breeze where the cattle can be accommodated. You know, you dont get this on the regular trucking company, but you get this from specialized trucking services. And we cannot afford to have, to operate truck-tractor rigs. We need guys like him. I mentioned about the drought. The drought doesnt make a difference, I mean, it doesnt differentiate between if youre a farmer, rancher or domestic user. Last night, 3 oclock, they were hauling water down to Waikoloa; and I think this is where the other 39 percent fall in where rural residents without the capacity of piped water depend on catchment. They have to depend on these trucking companies to come in. Three oclock this morning these guys are out there, bringing water to the Waikoloa rural residents. Now I think, I venture to gamble that a lot of the 39 percent is servicing rural communities. They are one of the few trucking companies that would go out in the wildfires to drive on the field roads. Theyre the ones that would go out and take chances. And theyre the onesthatarerequestingaspecialpermittooperateontheirland. IdonotdisagreewiththelandclassificationofthePlanningDepartment,classifyingD. But I just wanted to apprise the Commission on how the ratings are. Class A land is what we dont have, we dont have one acre of that on the Big Island. Class A land is really tillable nice land with water close by. Class B almost meets that with a little slope. Class C would be little rocky but still requiring some irrigation. D is where you cant operate machines. And I know that area where the trucking company is requesting a special permit. Its in Honokaia. I spent my summers there. Our camp site was right on the, not more than 500 meters away from where his coral is; and our guys used to go into the, take hiking trips. So I know that land parcel. That land parcel is also very slopey. And you have to understand that when they did the soil survey, our Department did the soil survey, they did it by reconnaissance, the best they could with documents. Not, sometimes they went on site, but sometimes more often than not they did not. In this case, they went by reconnaissance, and did not -. So little pieces of parcel, like 17-acre pieces of parcels, which couldnt be picked up by the aerial photos was that it were, was classified D. But I noticed also in looking at the Land Study Bureaus recommendation, I mean, classification they classified this land as with a Class, with 30 points out of a possible 100, I mean 31. One less point would bring it into E, in Class E, which means that any fool who wants to develop that for agriculture would be destined for failure. So its just, you know, its just a matter of one point. I just wanted to bring that point. So I guess the point is that this is a very specialized company thats asking to relocate where they live, very much needed in the community, they operate all hours at night, look at their equipment, theyre willing to go on unimproved roads. Id be happy to answer any questions. Thank you very much. IWASHITA:Mr. Chair? ALAMEDA:Thank you, Mr. Tulang. Mr. Iwashita. 16EXHIBIT B IWASHITA:Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tulang, for coming. My view is given what Ive seen in the record and your testimony that Mr. Mirandas use of the property, the only issue that, as an agricultural hauling service, the only issue or the question that I have is -. The Commission in considering this application we look to the Zoning Code. And under Section 25-5-72(c)(16), one of the uses that are allowed by special permit, which is what were considering today, is uses which meet the standards for special permit under Chapter 205, Hawai€i Revised Statutes. And, you know, personally, Im convinced that Mr. Mirandas operation is an agricultural activity or agricultural use thats necessary to support, you know, the diversified agriculture in that community. The Director has recommended denial so there are no conditions or anything as part of the recommendation. My question to you is, one, whether you believe, I just want to confirm that you believe and its your testimony that Mr. Mirandas proposed use or his use of the property to store his, operate his trucking company is a use which meets the standards under Chapter 205. And then my second question would be whether you haveanysuggestionsforconditions,Iguess,forthisspecialpermitthatwouldmeetthe requirements of Chapter 205. TULANG:The answer to your first question is, yes, you know, I fully support it. I think, I failed to mention that one of the conditions that I would like to do is have him, Mr. Miranda, plant more trees; and Id like to suggest native species which, like Koa. That whole region at one time from the edge of Waipio Valley all the way up to Mana Road consisted of a lot of ohia trees and koa trees. If you go back into the old Hawaiian records, it talks about that whole area as being very swampy and supporting a lot of ducks. Its amazing. And, you know, if he starts this transformation of that area back to, and I must mention why all the trees went down. Well, there was an era when there was a proliferation of dairies in that area which required pasteurization, so they cut all the trees down. They cut all the trees down all the way up to Mana Road. And, to me, if he starts this, starts an example, start the natural, the Hawaiian forest revegetation to further mask his operation, I think its a big credit to him. IWASHITA:And my question to Mr. Miranda, is that a condition that you would consider as part of the special permit? MIRANDA:I have one, another guy thats going to testify. ALAMEDA:Could you speak into the mike, Mr. Miranda. Thank you.. MIRANDA:Dwayne Cypriano is going to testify for RR Olsen and hell tell you about trees that he and his 4-H Club planted on my property a couple of months ago as a community beautification project; and theyre all koa trees, but Ill let him talk about it. IWASHITA:No, I just wanted to know if thats a condition that you would find acceptable. So it sounds like the answer is yes. 17EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:Yeah, I had them plant, they planted I think 25 or 30 koa trees; and I plan to plant a lot more. IWASHITA:Sounds like youve been talking to Mr. Tulang before you came here today. MIRANDA:No, not really, not about trees. He just brought that up and caught me off guard and Im thinking you know what, we did this already. So hes like one step slow. IWASHITA:Its not a contest, Mr. Miranda. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yes.Iwantedtoclarifysomethingthatyouweresayingaboutthe ALISH, I guess, the ALISH soil maps, and I didnt know that they did it. A lot of it, the designations is from the air, from aerial inspections. I know on my own property there are places where I have little hills and then the flat area down below is deep soil and tillable, simply because there has been a lot of silting coming down during our heavy rains. I get 200 inches a year. So I know that on the tops of the hills its a lot rockier because soil has washed off; and down at the base its siltier. So I wonder how can they designate a whole large area when there seems to be variations even within one parcel as to whether its tillable or not. TULANG:I appreciate that comment. To look at the property, I walked the whole length of the road to look at the soil profile; and it varies. Someone did it very accurately because its a very stoney area, very shallow soils and very stoney. This is why they stayed out of there. SIRACUSA:So then it really is only suitable for pasture is what youre saying? TULANG:Oh, yeah, thats no doubt in my mind. SIRACUSA:Okay, and that would be for horses, as well as cattle, or other -? TULANG:Sure. SIRACUSA:Smaller grazing animals? TULANG:Right. SIRACUSA:Okay. In the Directors recommendations on page 2, he refers to this as an irreversible non-agricultural use. To me it appears, and Im a farmer, that Mr. Miranda is providing definite needed services to the agricultural community and that its not a nonagricultural use. What I have a question about, and I guess I should direct it to Mr. Yuen, is if this Commission decides to approve and wants to impose conditions, 18EXHIBIT B whats the process? Since there are no conditions here, whats the process whereby Commission, excuse me, conditions would be imposed? I mean, would the Department want to make some standard ones that always seem to go on these applications in addition to anything that the Commission might decide to add? YUEN:We would, there are some standard conditions that we would want to accompany any, rather than just have a complete approval, yes. SIRACUSA:I think the Commissioners would probably feel more comfortable with that, too. Could you give us some idea what those might be or would we have to go back to the drawing board on this? YUEN:Well, we didnt prepare a set -. If you were to look, for example, at the other special permit requests where we do have conditions of approval, just to give youanexample,number5ontheagenda,complywithallstatedconditionsofapproval, final plan approval, we have a fairly standard landscaping, sometimes hours of operation, time extensions, timeframe for complying, and we generally have some kind of access condition. And as you see our primary reason for denial was the access condition that the Department of Transportation would be happy withand, that we also look at as a safety issue, is extremely expensive in this case. But if the Commission, you know, if the Commission clearly wants to approve, then at that point we will, the Department would like to spend a few minutes in preparing some conditions that we would want to have attached to any approval. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Other questions for Mr. Tulang? Commissioner Watanabe. WATANABE:Maybe not so much for Mr. Tulang but this might be directed more to the Director. And I note that, cause Im still concerned about the safety issue. And I note that you said that it would cost anywhere between $300,000 to $600,000. Is there any other way to mitigate that issue? Cause I would tend to agree that large trucks entering a highway where vehicles are normally traveling at high speeds, in addition, you know, you do mention the fact that its typically foggy out there and I think thats common knowledge. So, you know, while traffic might not normally be an issue that we would consider, safety probably should be; and, really, thats my biggest concern there. If you can figure out a way to mitigate that, then I might be more inclined to vote favorably. YUEN:I dont have anything. What we got from the Department of Transportation was a recommendation for the channelized intersection which I take to mean a left-turn pocket and acceleration and deceleration lanes. That is an extremely expensive proposition. Apart from that, I, I dont have any kind of idea besides that. 19EXHIBIT B Its, as, youre right, its not a traffic issue in the sense that theres going to be a traffic tie-up if its strictly a safety question. MIRANDA:If I may address -? ALAMEDA:Sure. MIRANDA:Id like to address that in the way that, you know, I know you folks just approved Parker Ranch out by West Hawaii Concrete with a special permit to make that an industrial area where I was previously. And theyre putting in a fuel dock, Aloha Petroleum is, I think, where all the trucks can go in and fill up fuel. West Hawaii has all these cement trucks, and dump trucks, running in and out of there. And now theyve rented out I dont know how many lots. But youve got people going in and out of there. The entrance from West Hawaii to the State Highway is right there on the turn. And I, youknow,tometheyvegotdeeppockets;andIdontseeanaccelerationlaneor deceleration lane coming in there at all. And then I can go down, you know -. The past couple of months Ive been just looking at every intersection where I think theres a problem. And by Lakeland Subdivision, De Luzs quarry on Ahualoa Road, they just got a special permit. I think they just purchased the property from Parker Ranch and they had to get a special permit. And I dont think they ever put in a turning lane or deceleration lane, and theyre just about a mile above me on the old Mamalahoa highway. Its, my property and their property is like all on the same vein, as the whole ridge runs from, I guess, the slopes of Mauna Kea all the way down to Kukuihaele which is, all the hills are all full of gravel. And its the same area. So, to me, its like Im being the target and maybe they want to use me as an example, but thats how I feel. ALAMEDA:Thank you, Mr. Miranda. IWASHITA:Mr. Chair? ALAMEDA:Mr. Iwashita? IWASHITA:I just wanted to clarify because I dont know about the Parker Ranch special permit approval. Was that approved without requiring any improvements at the intersection with the State Highway? YUEN:I believe that we did not require anything there and I dont believe we got anything from State Highways asking for those improvements. IWASHITA:Thank you. RODRIGUES:I have a comment if I may, sir. We cannot, I live in that area. I live very close to Miranda Trucking. We cannot ignore the safety problems of that stretch of highway. Thats real. So the question becomes, Commissioner, is what you said, how do we fix it. Me, I and my family have been almost run off that road several 20EXHIBIT B times, going to funerals even. Cows come across that road by the golf course. The fog is heavy. One of the things I think we can do right now to prevent the loss of life on that stretch has nothing to do with Miranda Trucking. It has to do with the speed limit. Lot of that is 55 miles an hour where the line of sight is very short; and sometimes its almost as dark as night during the day. If we drop that down to 40-45 miles an hour max, that would go a long way for safety. What is not addressed in the brief and may not be addressed by the witnesses, so I would like the liberty to address it for you, is this, because weve discussed this, what is the impact of Miranda Trucking coming off that easement onto Mamalahoa Highway? You will hear from Michelle Barber who took the pictures that you see in Exhibit 13 a little bit later. Shell explain what that is. None of the pictures you see in Exhibit 13 are Miranda Truckingtrucks.Whenyoulookat,asMr.Mirandasaid,whenyoulookatthecompany itself with four trucks, theres no retail, no backhaul into the property. Theyre not hauling anything back in, they all leave in the early morning hours. They are radio or telephoned dispatched all day long. They dont come back until the day is over. And at the rate theyve been going, they dont come back because of the fires. So you dont have the West Hawaii Concrete situation of trucks in and out, in and out, in and out all day long. You dont have retailers coming in there to buy stuff. The trucks are gone in the morning, theyre gone. So the access problem is not as severe as it may appear. You will hear testimony, I dont want to, I just want to give you a short preview. Mr. Miranda said that he has been looking at intersections. Lets start at an intersection. Lets start at Honokaa, lets start at Texs Drive-In. Everybody knows Texs Drive-In. Theres no such thing as a turning lane there; and thats Texs Drive-In. Thats the one that goes down to Honokaa High School. Theres nothing there. You go out a little bit more towards Mr. Mirandas property and you come to the Mamalahoa Highway where theres a turnoff to the transfer station, there is a small one there. Hardly any traffic there, nobody goes there. The transfer station people come from Honokaa town, they dont come from upon the highway. WATANABE:I understand. Can I ask you a question then? RODRIGUES:Sure. WATANABE:You know, that 60-foot or so easement -? RODRIGUES:Yes. WATANABE:Isnt that right on the crest or very close to the crest of a hill? RODRIGUES:Ill defer to Mr. Miranda because hes the one that uses it every day. 21EXHIBIT B WATANABE:Thats my understanding. And so to some degree, you know, I think the topography contributes to the safety issues, meaning, you know, you cant see over the hill. As he said, Mr. Miranda said,they cant see my trucks cause theyre in the valley. Its same thing, see. I believe your ingress and egress is very close to a hill which contributes, you know. MIRANDA:The entrance into my property I believe its like 900 feet on the side toward Waimea to the turn. SALAVEA:If I may interrupt, if you could show us on the map I think that graphically that could help us understand what youre saying. Thank you, Mr. Miranda. MIRANDA:From my property or the 60-foot easement right here, this is going to Kamuela, its about a 900 feet or 1,000 feet; and from this entrance I can see all the wayuptotheturn,okay,whichisabout900feet.Fromheredownpastmyproperty until the turn which is down here, its like 700 or 800 feet. Its a little bit shorter. But I can see every car coming around this turn before I pull out. The other thing I was going to tell you is my trucks, we only come home to park. Its like when you go home at night you take your car and park it in the garage. Okay, my trucks are coming home empty. They come down the road and usually coming from Waimea way and turn in. When we leave in the morning most of the times, well, all the time were leaving empty. Sometimes the trucks have trailers on it. I leave almost every morning without a trailer. I pull out of here, I pull on the edge of the road if theres a car coming. But by the time I get going and I reach the turn, Im going 55 miles an hour. Im going faster than most of the cars or as fast as all the cars. All the trucks I get get 500 horse power engines in them. Okay, if you like come alongside with your car, you know, the trucks go as fast as your car. So Im not holding up traffic because Im pulling out empty. Its not like West Hawaii Concrete coming in from that Ahualoa Road to where all the trucks pull out loaded all day long. I pull out with four trucks a day. In one week, thats 20 trucks. West Hawaii in one hour I think they get like 60 or 70 trucks. My daughter got pictures. I had her go and sit at the intersection and count trucks and cars for one hour. And shes got all this stuff that she can testify and really show you the facts. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Im not trying to cut off the testimony that theyre proposing but -. ALAMEDA:Yeah, we do have further testimony and we dont want to have the testimony be redundant so -. WATANABE:Yeah, but Im wondering, you know, if were looking at this as potentially not going along with the Directors recommendation then might we want to, is there a method to continue this so everybody can get on the same page? I mean, weve got, not so much that were not going to accept the testimony, but weve got all of this 22EXHIBIT B only today, yeah. And Im sure if the Director has a change of heart then he wants to make sure that he has covered all the conditions. And I dont know, maybe we have to take a field trip there to really get a sense of the safety. I dont know. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe, it sounds like your question is on maybe possible protocol for the Commission and the different avenues we could take. Id like to turn it over to Mr., our counsel, just as a brief, if you could answer that. TORIGOE:Well, its certainly your option. If you feel like you want to continue it and ask the parties and the Planning Department to discuss certain issues you could do that as long as the applicant agrees, you know, to try and do that, put things off. RODRIGUES:As my client considers that situation, may I make a remark? ALAMEDA:Goahead. RODRIGUES:AfterdueconsiderationofthesafetyissueofMamalahoa Highway, Highway 19, being uninitiated in zoning law but being somewhat initiated by my friends in Waimea on ranching operations and farming and industry, I think you will come full circle. Full circle meaning you start with the pinhead, the access road on Mamalahoa Highway, and you go around and around and around in concentric circles until you get to the General Plan where I was at midnight last night. And you look at this General Plan, and the version I was looking at is February 2, 2005, the on-line version, and you see if you read the papers and the General Plan together, weve got a massive transportation problem. Where do you begin to fix it? All right, continuing the circle, Im back to Waimea again. And I read the General Plan pertaining to South Kohala, Waimea, and what I see is what I read in the paper, we are studying that thing to death. Why? Because its complex. When we say West Hawaii, when we compare Miranda Trucking with West Hawaii Concrete, and the lack of a channelization or a pocket lane or this and that, and we talk about Parker Ranch not having to apply for a special permit and all these things, it really looks like the target, the silver bullet is right at Miranda Trucking. And when you sit there at 1 oclock in the morning and you see I cant fix this, I dont know if the Planning Director can fix this, I dont know if the Governor can fix this, but Ill tell you what, dont hang the $600,000 bill on Miranda Trucking to widen the road when, if you ever have a chance to read our brief, you will see that the Directors position is his goal is, the Planning Commission, I mean the Planning Department Director, his goal is to encourage the State to do its thing with the State Highways. How much more can the County do than beg. And in legal language and in civil language thats what our General Plan does, it begs the State to come to the Big Island and not only fix Waimea but everything else. So my plea is if my client agrees to a continuance to study this matter youre going to do the circle trip that I took and come right back and say, all right, we either hang it on Mr. Miranda and not on Parker Ranch and not on the other developers in the area, and not on West Hawaii Concrete, were going to hang it on Mr. Miranda, or were going to say cant get around my arms this rascal, its too big. Thats why I come right back to slow 23EXHIBIT B everybody down, watch your visualizations, even put a blinking yellow light if you have to. But that will help, it may even safe a life. But asking a landowner of 17 acres to put out a half a million bucks is not the answer. Its not even fair and it probably wouldnt pass constitutional muster accounts. ALAMEDA:Can I say something? Thank you. Mr. Rodrigues, Ive been thinking about DOT. Did you guys get a chance to talk to talk to DOT -? RODRIGUES:Mr. Miranda has. ALAMEDA:Like regarding maybe speed limit, tail light, that kind of thing? MIRANDA:I talked to them about speed limit and they tell me, oh, its hard to do. But right above that, not even a mile, theres a 45 mile speed zone; and they told me likemaybewecanbringitdown,butits,Idontknowwhattherightropestopull.And they seem like they kind of knew it and they didnt really want to tell me. Thats my opinion. But I think if it was recommended by you folks or the Planning Committee, I think it really would have some teeth in it and they could move it a mile lower and make it a lot more safe. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Fellow Commissioners, Im looking at the time now and I know you guys might be getting hungry -. IWASHITA:I just have a follow-up on that safety issue. ALAMEDA:Okay, okay. IWASHITA:Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to make sure I understand, Mr. Miranda. What youre saying, what I understood your testimony to be as far as the traffic impact of your operation is that you have four trucks that leave your yard in the morning and those four trucks return always empty. And how many have pulled trailers in that eight runs? MIRANDA:Usually two are pulling trailers and two are bobtailing, sometimes three pulling trailers, just depending on if were hauling water or cattle. IWASHITA:But the trailers are empty. And so as I understand your point that youre trying to make is that the impact of your operation on entering and exiting Mamalahoa Highway is minimal at best? MIRANDA:It is. IWASHITA:Okay. I understand. Thank you. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners, this is my proposal. Im thinking of letting, we have four more testifiers, witnesses, and Im thinking of hearing them out, and 24EXHIBIT B if we can keep our questions real specific if any, and then breaking for a half-hour lunch here, and then picking up from there. What are your thoughts on that? IWASHITA:Sounds good. SALAVEA:Sounds good. ALAMEDA:Could we then move to our second testifier or witness. I have here Mr. Freddy Rice. RODRIGUES:Mr. Rice? Mr. Rice needs no introduction. ALAMEDA:Could he introduce, could he share his own -. RODRIGUES:Iwill. ALAMEDA:Couldyouintroducehimandcouldhesharehisownbackground? RODRIGUES:Yes. ALAMEDA:Okay,thankyou. RODRIGUES:Harold Frederick Rice, Jr. rancher extraordinaire. RICE:Aloha ka kou. ALAMEDA:Aloha. RICE:Freddy Rice, I live in Kamuela, Hawai€i. ALAMEDA:Okay, could I swear you in. Mr. Rice, will you raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawai€i County Planning Commission? RICE:I do. ALAMEDA:Thank you. You may proceed. RICE:Okay. Just to make it short, were very fortunate to have somebody like Melvin available to haul our cattle and our water, do all the things that youve heard, go at extreme hours, difficult roads, very important with the cattle. Its not lumber or something like that. Its live animals and not only does he know how to distribute the weight in the different compartments so that they dont crowd, he helps us load and he helps us unload. If something goes wrong along the trip, we cant follow all the trucks all the time, he knows what to do, how to fix it. Cow manure does happen. 25EXHIBIT B The other thing that Id like to focus on is his location. Hes right in the center of what has become the ranching business. With the sugar going out, Hamakua Coast is really turning into ranching. And where hes located, its more economical than anybody else because hes -. The Paauilo area you have the staging lot for the mainland shipments, you have the slaughter house. Onomea has another staging area. And the cattle, the majority of cattleon this island, take away Kau and Kona, but the majority of the cattle are between Waimea and Hamakua. And where hes located, he charges by the hour. Not only is it more economical for us to have, call him rather than somebody from another area, he can get there quicker and he can make more loads because hes right there. And its very important to us. And I think that if youre going to target Melvin to be the first one to have to put these safety improvements and so forth and so on, youre not only targeting him youre targeting the cattle business too. Thank you. ALAMEDA:Thank you, Mr. Rice. Any specific questions from Commissioners?Thankyou.Youmaybeseated. RODRIGUES:Mr.RicesletterofsupportisinExhibit12. ALAMEDA:Thankyou,Mr.Rodrigues.CouldwecallonDwayneCypriano. RODRIGUES:Mr.Cypriano.Mr.CyprianoisthemanagerforRROlson,itsa ranching supply company in Waimea. I understand he knows something about trees, too. ALAMEDA:Mr. Cypriano, may I swear you in. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawai€i County Planning Commission? CYPRIANO:I do. ALAMEDA:Could you state your legal address. CYPRIANO:Okay, first of all, Id like to say good afternoon to everyone here. My name Dwayne Cypriano. I am the operations manager at RR Olson. I do live in the community of Honokaa, Hawai€i. Id just like to testify on behalf of Mr. Miranda because, again, reiterating what Mr. Rice said without Mr. Miranda the agricultural community would suffer a great loss. He provides a service for us by basically bringing up our containers which includes equipment for the cattle industry as well as the over-all livestock industry and equestrian side for the whole island as well as the State. Without him, quite frankly, I dont know what we would do. And giving him a home base where he can operate out of and feel safe and secure, not knowing, he doesnt have to spend time moving around and finding another location would be a great satisfactory to our company as well as the whole community of Waimea. So also on the second note, being my wife and I being 4-H leaders we do lead a small group of 17 children as well as young adults. He has provided us with a chance to provide a community service where we did plant 28 trees, to be exact, Koa hardwood trees on the property fronting his now baseyard. And thats all I have to say in closing. 26EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Thank you, Mr. Cypriano. Any specific questions, Commissioners? Very good. CYPRIANO:All right. ALAMEDA:Thank you. You may be seated. RODRIGUES:And Mr. Cyprianos letter of support is also in the same Exhibit 12. Next witness is Ms Eva Kuhlmann. Ms. Kuhlmann is the office manager for Miranda. If you look at Exhibit 11, youll see a pie chart. Anybody can make a pie chart. I asked for this pie chart. I wanted to know if Miranda Trucking was really and could prove that it was in the agriculture business or the agricultural support business, so I said prove it. Whatyouhaveinfrontofyouisnotwhatshehas.Whatyouhaveinfrontofyouisthe pie chart. Id like her to spend a few moments testifying as to how she created that pie chart and Id like to show you documents that you can have, inspect or copy that should support that 61 percent versus 39 percent figure. So, Ms. Kuhlmann. KUHLMANN:Hi. ALAMEDA:Ms. Kuhlmann, may I swear you in. KUHLMANN:Yes. ALAMEDA:Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawai€i County Planning Commission? KUHLMANN:Yes. ALAMEDA:Could you state your full name and address, please. KUHLMANN:My name is Eva Kuhlman. Im from Kamuela. ALAMEDA:Okay. Also, Id just like to make a comment. I appreciate the very brief and concise testimonies. If we could continue in that manner, that would be great. Go ahead, you may proceed. KUHLMANN:Okay. The way I got to the percentage was I had to take, I had to go back a year, like 19 months, and compile all the trips that the drivers took, and I sorted it into categories; and thats how I came to the pie chart. IWASHITA:Before you go any further, I just have -. After Mr. Cyprianos testimony, I assumed that his business would be part of ranch and farm supplies, that 21 percent, the hauling thats done for his company. Would that be a correct assumption? 27EXHIBIT B KUHLMANN:Yes, yes. IWASHITA:Okay. And sounds like Mr. Cyprianos business would be a substantial part of that 21 percent. KUHLMANN:Yes, it is. IWASHITA:Okay, thank you. KUHLMANN:Im kind of nervous. Well, anyway, I did about over 2,600 entries to come to this conclusion. IWASHITA:Is that all of the hauls during that period of time, this January 2004 to July 7 -? KUHLMANN:Its all of the hauls in that period of time. And you know that Classl,1percentmilk,Idjustliketonotethatitwas,themilkdeliverywasdonewithin the past five months only. ALAMEDA:Commissioners, any questions of Ms. Kuhlmann? WATANABE:I would take your word for it. I dont think thats the issue. KUHLMANN:Anybody want to inspect the papers? No? WATANABE:I dont really think thats the real issue. KUHLMANN:Okay. ALAMEDA:Thank you. I appreciated your testimony. Finally, Id like to call up, go ahead, Michelle Barber. RODRIGUES:That goes to the issue, that goes back to the safety issue. We wanted our own survey. Like Mr. Miranda said earlier, he ordered his daughter out there. Shes a school teacher at Honokaa School; and theyre not working right now so he gave her a job, go out there and do it. So Ill let her take over from here, okay? ALAMEDA:Ms. Barber, could you raise your right hand, please. Do you affirm or swear to tell the truth now before the Hawai€i County Planning Commission? BARBER:Yes. ALAMEDA:Could you state your legal name and full address. BARBER:Michelle Barber. My address is 45-350 Ohelo, Honokaa, Hawai€i. 28EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you. You may proceed. BARBER:Yes, he gave me the job of counting cars. He said I want you to just go and count cars and trucks in and out at the Lakeland Subdivision and at the West Hawaii Subdivision, West Hawaii Concrete, their in and out area. And I said, well, when do you want me to go, like is there a good time to go? He said pick an hour, just sit there for one hour, any time during the day, and just count how many during that hour. You have a digital camera, take your camera. So there I sat, Tuesday. And I got the pictures that are on -. The first picture thats Exhibit 13 is of what cars are at the Lakeland Subdivision where there is no turn lane. I had two of these but in making 20 colored copies it was taking really long time last night and I just printed one, how cars drive around each other on the shoulder there. And in the morning theres also the Hele On Bus that stops there; and theres people parked, standing on the side of the road where people, you know, they dont completely pull over on the side of the road, but theres no turnlane. ThenextpictureshowsthetruckscomingoutofLakeland,andoneofthepeoplethatwas standing there waiting for a ride even. The next picture is another truck coming out of the Lakeland Subdivision. And the next page will show you the times that trucks went in and out of the Lakeland Subdivision. In one hour, there were eight trucks going either in or out. That would be one whole day at Miranda Trucking. You know, they go out, they come back in. And this was just in one hour. And Id like to note that it was one hour on what I know is a slow day at the De Luz Quarry because there was a fire going down in Waikoloa and they were not hauling to where they usually haul. Below that I have listed how much other traffic there is. Theres cars and trucks in and out of there all day because of the subdivision. So its a busy area and it has the trucks going in and out. The next picture is at the West Hawaii Concrete turnoff. And youll see there that not only is there a hill that goes over but theres a hill and a turn. So when youre coming from Waimea headed towards Kona and trucks are turning left, they dont necessarily see whats even coming over the other end; and theres no turn lane. And, yes, theres traffic. ALAMEDA:Excuse me, can I ask you whats the speed limit there? BARBER:Yes, 55. The next picture shows a truck turning left into that same West Hawaii Concrete and the last page of that exhibit shows the exact times that trucks are in and out of West Hawaii Concrete during that one hour from 11:40 to 12:40. Both of these I kind of went out at a time that I thought is not peak hours. You know more trucks are in and out right at the beginning of the day and I didnt want to come here with information that was skewed. 29EXHIBIT B So when I was at Lakeland, I was at Lakeland from 10 to 11, just in the middle of the day. This one is from 11:40 to 12:40, so the same thing, middle of the day. Its not like everybody is all of a sudden coming back to their base station. This is just regular day traffic; and there are 25 trucks, semi-trucks, cement trucks, all kinds of trucks in and out there in one hour. ALAMEDA:Okay. BARBER:I also tookthe pictures that are in Exhibit 10. And there was some question about if this is the same areaasthe black and white photos. SIRACUSA:That was my question. BARBER:That was your question. So I thought Id go through „ the first blackandwhitepicturethatyouhaveisaclose-upofwhereheusedtohavehistrucks. That corresponds to the fifth colored picture. So if you count, starting from the beginning, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, thats the same angle. And if you look at the tree line, thats how you can tell its the same angle. The next black and white picture is kind of the wide angle of that same area; and that corresponds with the very first colored picture. I used the tree line as my guides, so that I would make sure I was taking the same area that was in the black and white pictures that he gave to me. SIRACUSA:You know, in the black and white pictures, that whole background of tree line is totally faded away so maybe thats why I was having trouble analyzing it and comparing the color with the black and white, because I couldnt see the tree line. BARBER:The second, well, the second picture, thats the wide view. What I used was theres trees and theres like gap in the trees, thats the hill going up, and then theres a whole bunch of trees again on the left side; and thats the same thats on the very first colored picture. You can see it clear there because its probably in color. And the reason that it looks like its washed out is because of the, just clouds. Yesterday it was pouring over there. So that probably, Im assuming, was the case when they took the black and white pictures. But you can see the tree line and the gap and then the trees go on behind the clouds. The third black and white picture is at the top where he used to have them; and that corresponds with the second colored picture. And I used the hills as my background there, the hills and the telephone poles, to know that I was photographing the same area. ALAMEDA:Can I ask Commissioner, excuse me. Can I ask Commissioner Siracusa, since you asked the question, are there any specific questions you have regarding the photos and its relation between the color and the black and white? SIRACUSA:No, not any more, now that she has clarified that. Because in the black and white I couldnt see the backgrounds, you know, so I didnt have a landscaped point of reference. But now I do, especially on the, was it the first colored picture and the 30EXHIBIT B one that corresponds in black and white. Because theres a funny little tree that has a strange thing sticking up in the back. And its obvious when you compare together that thats the same shot. ALAMEDA:Okay, all right. BARBER:You want me to go through the rest or not? ALAMEDA:That would be unnecessary, I think, unless the Commissioners have any specific questions regarding the photos. SIRACUSA:So now we can see that that area has been cleaned up though is the -. BARBER:IalsowantedtosayafterIwaslisteningtotheothers,causeItook some other pictures that I didnt print, cause I didnt know what you guys would be needing, that showed the whole rock ridge that he was talking about; and I didnt know that that was going to be an issue. But if you look at the last colored picture, it kinds of show the slope right below where his worksite is and that continues all the way up the hill. You can see the horses are down low, and then it just climbs; and it climbs like that all the way up to the highway. ALAMEDA:Very good. Thank you, Ms. Barber. Mr. Rodrigues, Id like to ask you if theres any other evidence that youd like to submit for the record at this time. RODRIGUES:Any more evidence -? ALAMEDA:Any other evidence? RODRIGUES:I think Ill just touch on one, maybe one thing right now. ALAMEDA:Please use the microphone so we can -. Thank you. MIRANDA:You know, one of the main reasons of denial from Mr. Yuen was because of the safety. I think that was pretty much the only thing I could get. And I believe that would be taken care of if the speed limit sign was moved down a mile. And on the second thing is like, you know, as far as industrial area to rent, you know, Garys Automotive area is available, you know, that kind of talk. Gary happens to be a good friend of mine; and he sold his business about a year ago. And that area when I got out of college, that was a dairy; and I used to sell feed. My first job was a feed salesman, selling feed to the ranchers and farmers around the island. Anyway, that was a dairy and it existed for many years. Then when they went out of business, Gary started his auto repair business there and ran it for many years without a permit. And then he got so 31EXHIBIT B much trouble from the Planning Department, letters and letters of why he was going to get fined. And he told me he came to five hearings. And last weekend at my grandsons birthday party, he told me, you know, Melvin, he said its a shame. He said I came to the Planning Commission. He said it made me so sad. He said I had tears in my eyes and they wanted to deny me getting a special permit. And he told them, you know what, if you folks dont give me the permit I think Ill go back to Waimea, close the doors, and move back to California. You know, when Gary told me that, I said, Gary, thats tough. He said Melvin they make it so hard for a small business to survive. And now you folks say that area is zoned for industrial, and what he had to go through to get his zoning was unreal. Its good for the next people he sold it to and whoever down the line; but he had to go through an act of Congress. And what happened was, he told me, you know what, he had the lease from Parker Ranch, they wanted to take the land back so they could use it and sell it at a higher price. That was the bottom line. I hate to, you know, I hate to say it but its like what goes around -. And I looked at it and I said, you know what, its the samethingthathappenedtomewhenImovedouttoWestHawaiiConcrete.Theytold me I can stay there forever, you know, however long I wanted to. And I figured I was going to be there a long time. I have my 17 acres, I could raise my horses and cattle there and build a home. I wasnt planning to move my trucks there. I was planning to stay out in West Hawaii where it was dry but after four months they told me to move. Then I said you know what, I had enough being pushed around. And now Im here before you folks. ALAMEDA:Any other testimony? MIRANDA:No. ALAMEDA:Okay, specific questions? Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:No. Im ready to make a motion if thats okay with anybody else. GRAHAM:I thought we were going to do a lunch break here? Is that happening or not? ALAMEDA:Its up to you guys. Lunch break or -? IWASHITA:Im ready to propose a motion myself, actually. I have all the conditions spelled out. SALAVEA:Yeah, Id prefer if we can try and see if we can get through this before we break for lunch. IWASHITA:So Mr. Miranda can get back to his business, hopefully. ALAMEDA:Okay? SIRACUSA:Okay, in the matter of Special Permit Application SPP 05-009, I move that the Planning Commission approve for the following reasons and conditions. 32EXHIBIT B Reason number one, we find that it is not a contractors base yard but rather a base yard that provides agricultural-based support services and therefore is an agricultural use. Reason number two, that there is insufficient daily traffic to warrant traffic concerns. Reason number three, the applicant has already addressed the adverse negative visual impact by moving all the heavy equipment into an area which is not visible from the road or from neighboring properties. And the conditions would be the standard conditions as enumerated by Director Yuen earlier in todays meeting. IWASHITA:I have a friendly amendment before I second. SIRACUSA:Im willing to listen. Alameda:Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA:The motion would be to move that the application for a special managementareausepermitSPP05-009-. ALAMEDA:Special permit. IWASHITA:Im sorry, Im wrong, okay. Thank you. Special Permit SPP 05-009, in order to address the correction, the application would be to allow the establishment of an agricultural trucking base yard, as opposed to a contractors base yard. And the conditions would be as indicated and what would be the normal conditions for approval of a special permit, including review of plans and so forth. SIRACUSA:I will accept that friendly amendment. Would the Director care to say anything before we -? IWASHITA:I second. ALAMEDA:Does the second? IWASHITA:Yes. ALAMEDA:Discussion? Oh, Director Yuen. YUEN:Yeah, just a moment. Were you planning to fuel on site? Were you planning to fuel on site? 33EXHIBIT B MIRANDA:I have a fuel tank on site where I fuel my trucks up. And I have it, a fuel tank on a plastic, hard plastic liner like the kind you use on reservoirs so that if any fuel leaks it will be contained, as kind of with the Fire Department Code. YUEN:I think we would recommend that fuel changes and oil spills be done on a paved area as a condition of approval if they are going to do fueling and oil changes on site. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA:Would that not be part of the normal requirements for handling fuel and so forth by the regulators other than ourselves? Is that, was it yes? MIRANDA:I dont know. WATANABE:He said he didnt know. MIRANDA:I plan, Mr.Yuens question, I plan to build a warehouse or area withacementslabandroofthatIcanworkonthetruckswhereincaseanyoilgets spilled I can take the appropriate methods to soak up the oil like I have done in the past at other areas that Ive been at. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Mr. Miranda, in your prior operation sites you fueled your trucks on those sites? MIRANDA:Yes. IWASHITA:And did you have to have your facility approved and inspected and -? MIRANDA:The Fire Department has Codes, you know, that we follow; and thats the first thing I do with my fuel deal, is to have it up to standards with the Fire Department because theyre the ones that come and check, cause I dont want any fuel spills or fuel leaks. So any fire hazard, thats, cause I can get a big fine for that. IWASHITA:By the Fire Department? MIRANDA:Yes. IWASHITA:Okay, so you have them inspect your facility? MIRANDA:Yes. IWASHITA:Okay, thank you. 34EXHIBIT B YUEN:I would recommend that we have a specific condition that fuel storage, fueling and oil changes take place on a paved surface. SIRACUSA:I have no problem with accepting that as a friendly amendment to the motion if Mr. Iwashita will concur. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Yeah, I second it. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe, you have a question? WATANABE:I have a question for the Director because the Department of Transportationdidhavesomerecommendationswithregardtothechannelingandall that. And its still a State road, right? So, you know, and Im not opposed to helping out a little guy, you know, small business, etc.; and, in fact, thats the only reason why Im still listening. But, you know, are we okay with this? Im not certain about how we go about this. I mean, Im not sure that we can just simply ignore it. YUEN:Well, the Commission has the final power to approve or deny this particular land use and to put whatever conditions you want on it. Our Departmental recommendation remains the same because of the concerns about bringing trucks in and out on a stretch of highway where people are not expecting this. If the Commission goes ahead and approve it with the current conditions without requiring the channnelization, I dont believe that the Department of Transportation has the power to impose that on their own. I could be wrong on this point. But I think that where the landowner has an existing legal access, the Department of Transportation can approve the construction of your driveway; and they have conditions on your driveway access. But I dont believe that they could make the landowner, in this case, that absent our requiring it as a condition that on their own they could make the landowner channelize the intersection. WATANABE:Follow up? ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe, sure. WATANABE:This would be more to Mr. Torigoe. So weve just heard the Director say that the Departments recommendation stands, right? And the Department of Transportations recommendation stands. Whether they have the ability to require channelization or, etc. were not sure. But it may not be here nor there because they all said dont do this, yeah, and we felt sorry for Miranda Trucking so we did and one whole family died. Now whos responsible? IWASHITA:Before Corp. Counsel answers, can I? 35EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA:Im not going to give a legal opinion, but -. I guess my view is that the evidence that we have before us which has, again, what we need to take into consideration is that there is, my view of it is that there is a very nominal, marginal, whatever adjective you want to use, impact of traffic. You know, Mr. Mirandas operation is going to have less traffic than the mortgage company we just approved before this one. So I just dont see it as an issue. ALAMEDA:Counsel? TORIGOE:This may not be the kind of question that you necessarily want to discuss on record, you know, cause -. But basically though you generally have, as far as the,aquasi-judicialimmunityfromsuitsondecisionsthatyoumakeinthiskindof situation. The record, on the record before me I cant really give you any kind of reliable analysis of what would be the outcome should something like that happen. YUEN:Well, if youre asking a question about your personal responsibility for suit, youre not responsible. You look at a set of facts, you make a decision, you weigh it, you make a decision. If there is an unsafe condition on a State Highway the State is responsible. If the private owner is partially at fault for it, then the private owner is partially responsible. The Planning Commission in approving or denying an access is not legally responsible. ALAMEDA:Commissioner or counsel? TORIGOE:No -. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:No. I just wanted to say that I feel that we looked into the issue of sight distance and that seems to be more than adequate. Certainly weve approved things with a lot less sight distance. Fog, nobody can do anything about fog, you know, whether you have sight distance or not. Sometimes you cant see one foot in front of your face. But the sight distance seems to be okay; and the fact that he has got such small, he has only got four vehicles. So with four out, four in, were talking about a really minimal amount of traffic from what I see. So I think that we could say that considering those two facts alone it would appear that we are not, you know, engaging in anything that is going to be a public endangerment. ALAMEDA:Thank you, Commissioner Siracusa. Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Would it be advisable to put that as one of the conditions, the vehicles, the number of vehicles? Or can he tomorrow go out and buy six more? 36EXHIBIT B YUEN:Well, the only, you know, its really up to the Commission. The only limitation on his operations right now is it would be limited to one acre. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe? Let me just summarize where were at. Theres a motion on the floor by Commissioner Siracusa, seconded by Commissioner Iwashita, with some specific conditions as noted. And can we move to discussion? Okay, were in discussion. Go ahead, Commissioner McCall. MCCALL:Well, I will say I would like to do whatever we can for Mr. Miranda. I think this is a good example of something, you know, that should be in an agricultural district. I am somewhat concerned about going completely against a recommendation from the State Department of Transportation. It seems like in my tenure here the one thing we havealwaysdoneis,youknow,ifwegetsomethingfromPublicWorksorsomething from Department of Transportation, we go with what they have. I mean, this, to me is definitely, you know, a step away from that. Given that, I mean, I am inclined at this point to vote in favor of this. But maybe one thing just to take a discussion -. We have put time limits on special permits before, in fact, right in the Waimea area. Something for the other Commissioners and also for the applicant would be if we put a five-year time limit on this, you know, and with the provision or something to the effect saying that, you know, if suitable zoned areas become available within a certain distance, I mean, we could ask him to relocate? ALAMEDA:Commissioner McCall, your question is to the Commissioners? COMMISSIONERS: To the Commissioners and then also to Mr. Miranda. WATANABE:I, you know -. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe. WATANABE:You know, I think that would be kind of unfair to Mr. Miranda. I understand where youre trying to go but, you know, if hes going to put in all these improvements he talked about, he needs more than five years to make full use of those improvements. You dont want to spend all that money; and, actually, I think whats happening with him is hes just tired of being forced to move out. So, you know, hes really looking for something permanent. And I dont really oppose any of it except for the safety issue. I still have some trouble with that, mostly because we have a number of agencies that have told us that you have a safety issue. Now maybe theyre wrong, Im not sure. SIRACUSA:Mr. Chair -. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa. 37EXHIBIT B SIRCUSA:I just wanted to say that having Mr. Miranda move his operation somewhere else in five years, he is going to be building his house on that parcel. And Mr. Tulang made a really good point about the agricultural theft and how its important for Mr. Miranda to live on the site so nobody can sneak past him with his heavy equipment and rip it off. And so moving somewhere else would preclude that and loosen that kind of self-protection. So I would not feel comfortable entertaining that as a friendly amendment. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners, let me just remind you that this is our time for discussion, to put things on the table for each other. So are there any other thoughts? Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just my final, hopefully, my final commentonthesafetyissueandthatis,andtheDOTHighwaysrecommendationsand observations, is I -? You know, we dont know. All we have is that letter; and, you know, they reviewed the application. Im not sure what assumptions DOT is making about the number of vehicles going in and out, and at different times of the day. But the record before us, again, go back to the record before is, is that its four vehicles out in the morning, four vehicles back in the afternoon. And, you know, were limiting his use to one-acre. And I dont know how many trucks you can fit on one acre, but it doesnt seem like it can be that many. And, you know, thats my view, the safety issue has been addressed by the record and DOTs concerns are part of it; but I just dont see a basis now for that concern, or, you know, the requirement for channelization. Its not supported by this record. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Can I -. Oh, Director. YUEN:Can I just jump in? I was asked this question before. I would suggest if the Commissioners are going to vote in favor that the Commission do limit the number of vehicles - you can, you actually can park quite a few trucks on one acre of property, you probably can park 20 or 30 trucks on an acre of property without any difficulty - and that the Commission include a, the permit is limited to Mr. Mirandas business. That is its not a, there are trucking companies that seek places to park their trucks, this is the common issue, and youre not opening an area for Mr. Miranda to lease parking spaces for other peoples trucks. That would be my suggestion on the limitations beyond just saying an acre. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Salavea and then Commissioner Siracusa. SALAVEA:Thank you, Director Yuen. I think thats what some of the concerns we may be hearing, is that if we do support the application and approve the permit, that business could eventually grow; and its a natural evolution of any business, especially when you are successful and hardworking. What would, in my mind, what I was seeing is that with that expansion or, as the Director had pointed out, subletting the space for other vehicles, you do begin to cause more of a public safety hazard if vehicles, 38EXHIBIT B the number of vehicles entering and exiting that area increases over time. I think whats my, I dont have a problem with the four trucks and the way the agricultural operation operates right now, Mr. Miranda. But if it does grow beyond what it currently is, it could pose a public safety hazard on that particular stretch, and not only because of the speed limit but because of the natural slope of the highway fronting your property. I myself drive frequently to Kona, Kohala and I use that road a lot, and son-of-a-gun my truck just rolled down that hill really fast. So its my personal opinion that its a very natural place to. And I observed this often where a lot of people pass in that area because the stretch of road is straighter than the other parts, the big curve, right below you, the hill right above you. So it does become an issue when you increase the amount of trucks; and I would like the Directors recommendation or conditions too; and this isnt to contain business. I dont want to seem like the Commission is here to regulate business. But the big issue at hand is public safety and the slope of the road fronting the property. So, thats what I -. WATANABE:Yeah,butactuallytheirrecommendationwastolimitittohis business and not allow subletting of truck rental stalls, right, Mr. Yuen? YUEN:There are two things. One is that the Commission should put some limit on the number of trucks that his business operates. It wouldnt have to be four. But, otherwise, you know, you do have a potential for a much larger business to be operating completely within the terms of the permit as granted, number one. And number two, that it is for the, that there be a condition that its limited to the operation of his business. Its not an area for other businesses, trucks to be stored and operated out of. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes, as maker of the original motion who has been accepting many friendly amendments to it, I would be willing to accept another friendly amendment that, number one, that no other vehicle, no other commercial vehicles, trucks, be given a home base there, allowed to park at this base yard; and, number two, that Mr. Miranda be limited in the number of trucks that he operates to, to only two more. I think that will just give us, six trucks is still pretty minimal and that it would probably be a long time before he could afford to buy two more trucks anyway, especially if hes building a house. SALAVEA:Could we confer with -. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Salavea. SALAVEA:Could we confer with Mr. Miranda on the Commissions additional conditions? ALAMEDA:Sure, sure. Mr. Miranda? MIRANDA:First of all, to address your concern, Mr. Yuen, I dont plan to sublease to any other outside trucker. I just want to park my trucks there. And I have four trucks running now and at times if the demand gets greater, I dont know if, you 39EXHIBIT B know, I may go to five trucks if I can afford it. Right now the bank and me own the trucks; and the bank and I own the land; and I want to build a house. I onlycan afford so much. But if things went really good, maybe Id buy another truck later on. And limit me to four trucks, if that would be the deal, then itd have to go down, you know. Its like four trucks or five trucks, I dont think Im making a big impact at all on the highway and the safety issue. IWASHITA:Mr. Miranda, Commissioner Siracusa said six. MIRANDA:Six, well, I dont think six because there are a lot of workmans comp and insurance is so high right now, and -. IWASHITA:Oh, six would be the max. MIRANDA:Andis-? SIRACUSA:Thatwouldbethemax.Thatwouldbethemax. MIRANDA:Yeah,anditssohardtogetdriverspassthedrugtest. ALAMEDA:SowhatImhearingisthatsix,thatnumberwouldbeokaywith you? RODRIGUES:Yeah, is there, if I may add, is there a possibility, whatever number, whatever the number the Commission settles on, is there a procedure or a process if the applicant wanted to amend that or reapply, lets say, to go to one more or ask for an exception or something like that? I dont see that as a problem, right? ALAMEDA:Director? YUEN:Its an amendment to the permit. Its like a, its the same process as a new application. It has to go back to the Commission. But its not forbidden, it can be done, yes. ALAMEDA:Any other questions? SIRACUSA:Okay. Did I have a second on that? IWASHITA:Second. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Well, Ive been all quiet on all this one. Yeah, so I want to put forward my feelings. I think the Commission clearly wants to support what youre doing; and I want to support that also. I think its wrong if you all think theres some kind of personal thing going on with the Planning Director or anybody else. We just get this 40EXHIBIT B material in the mail and we read it over real carefully and we come here and, you know, were basically a land use group in these things; and so we try to look at it from land use rules, not from personal things or anything like that. I understand the safety issues that you brought up and those photos so eloquently put forth. When I was driving down this morning there was a semi, there was a two trailer one coming right out of the Lakeland, right as I was going -. It was safe the way they came out, but you could see the situation. The only accident I had 30 years on this island was getting rear ended in making a left- turn into Tex Drive In. So youre certainly right about that. However, I, you know, because unsafe conditions exists it doesnt give me any reason why I feel like I should go in favor of any new unsafe conditions. So I feel like that access to the highway is a real issue and the Planning Director was certainly reasonable to have the level of concern he has. LikeMr.Salavea,Idrivethatroadalot.Ihaveneverbeenhassledbyyourtrucks,sortof felt like there was an unsafe issue; but as Mr. McCall said for me to sort of jump over the Department of Transportation guys and say, well, sorry, were going to approve it any way, I dont feel right doing that. I dont feel right going against the Planning Directors recommendation on, as far safety. Whats new for me today is the fact that youd only bring in four unloaded trucks in and out which makes them more safe than what I thought when I was just reading and coming in. So, you know, I have a sense that maybe theres a safe solution that can be worked out. But I am not prepared to vote in favor of this on a kind of spur of the moment thing here today saying, well, Department of Transportation, well kick them aside, and the Planning Directors recommendation, well kick that aside because we want to support you guys. Im not willing to go along with that. So, you know, Im going to vote no, but I feel like if this thing was put off and the Planning and the Department of Transportation and Mr. Miranda all got together and worked on something, you know, maybe theres something that would pass muster with me. But I also recognize that to cut a speed limit down, I mean, already, Mr. Mehaus 45 mile an hour limit is a humbug for people that are traveling every day. Theres a thousand people on that road every day, you slow them up so somebody can get a few trucks on the road, its a humbug for a lot of people. So I dont see the easy answer. But given that your impact is light, maybe there is an answer. But you know, Im not prepared to just sweep it under the rug and go forward today. So thats my feeling on this. And I say it very honestly, theres no other agenda behind that as I hope you can understand. ALAMEDA:Thank you, Commissioner Graham. Any other specific discussion points before we do a roll call? Very good. Staff? DARROW:Before we begin I have a procedural question for Corp. Counsel, I believe. This is, the way that our voting sheet is worded, it says ‚Approve as 41EXHIBIT B recommended by Panning Director. This is an approval recommendation but the Director has recommended denial. So would I be putting a denial? TORIGOE:No, this would be, it would be, the motion is to approve the application for a special permit. DARROW:With amendments. TORIGOE:Well, based on the reasons stated by the Commission and with the conditions as stated by the Commission. The Planning Director has stated some of those on the record. I dont know if you need to have those more clearly stated. DARROW:If I could clarify those. This would be an approval for an agricultural trucking base yard, is that correct? IWASHITA:Yes. DARROW:Okay. One of the conditions that will be added, including the standardconditionsthatwehaveonthespecialpermit,wouldbethatfuelstorage, fueling, and oil changes would be conducted on a paved area; that the applicant shall be limited to six vehicles, this should be trucks, semi-trucks, okay; and that no, just trying to put this together, the applicant shall not sublease property to any other business. Does that sound like -? YUEN:A better wording, that no vehicle storage for other businesses. DARROW:Thank you very much. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:No. DARROW:Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Aye, with reservations. DARROW:Commissioner Salavea? SALAVEA:Aye. 42EXHIBIT B DARROW:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Aye. DARROW:And Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA:Aye. DARROW:The motion passes six to one. ALAMEDA:Mr. Miranda, Mr. Rodrigues, you will be notified in writing of the Commissions recommendations. Thank you. MIRANDA:Thank you. RODRIGUES:Thank you very much. The discussion ended at 2:15 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura East Hawai€i Secretary 43EXHIBIT B