HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-08-27 TFOULK
LEEWARD PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
AUGUST 27, 2010
WILLIAM C. FOULK (SMA 10-
An advertised contested case hearing on the application of
41)
was called to order at 10:40 a.m. in the King Kamehameha's Kona Beach Hotel, Ballroom I,
75-5660 Palani Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawai‘i, with Chairman Frederic Housel presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Frederic Housel, Brandi Beaudet, Lani Bowman, Geraldine
Giffin, Thomas Hickcox, Wayne Iokepa and Richard Nelson
STAFF PRESENT: Brandon Gonzalez (Deputy Corporation Counsel), Margaret Masunaga
(Deputy Planning Director), Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager), Jeff Darrow (Staff
Planner) and Maija Cottle (Staff Planner)
PARTIES PRESENT: William Foulk (Applicant), Thomas Yeh (Applicants attorney), Don
and Lucy Crumrine as trustee of Martin H. Crumrine Family Trust (Intervenor), Peter Olson
(Attorney for Martin H. Crumrine Family Trust), Ali Ghalamfarsa (Intervenor), BJ Leithead
Todd (Planning Director) and Amy Self (Counsel to the Planning Director)
And approximately 120 people from the public in attendance.
APPLICANT: WILLIAM C. FOULK (SMA 10-41)
Contested Case Hearing on the application for a Special Management Area Use Permit to allow
the construction of a 16-unit, 4-story condominium building and related improvements. The
property is located on the northwest (makai) side of Ali‘i Drive and on the north side of Hlualoa
rd
Bay, Hlualoa 3, North Kona, Hawai‘i, TMK: 7-7-4:25.
HOUSEL: Our next case -. And I’ll ask anyone who just arrived, if you would like to present
public testimony, to please fill out a form, give it to the staff – I want to make sure we
understand everyone who wants to testify. Our next case is, the applicant is William C. Foulk.
This is for an SMA permit, 10-41. This will be a contested case hearing on the application for a
Special Management Area use permit to allow the construction of a 16-unit, four-story
condominium building and related improvements. The property is located on the northwest
rd
(makai) side of Ali‘i Drive on the north side of Hlualoa Bay, Hlualoa 3, North Kona,
Hawai‘i, TMK: 7-7-4-25.
PUBLIC (RUDOLPH): Excuse me, Fred. There’s nearly 60 people with no chairs. Can we do
anything about this? Can we move this table forward?
HOUSEL: I’m not sure that we can. I will ask Mr. Arai to see what he can do about that.
PUBLIC (RUDOLPH): Thank you.
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HOUSEL: Maija, are you going to present? Oh, you are not going to present? Okay.
COTTLE: Mr. Chairman, if the Commission would like me to do a presentation, I did one at the
last hearing, but we can refresh and -.
HOUSEL: Would any of the Commissioners like another presentation? Okay, I guess no.
Thank you.
COTTLE: Okay.
HOUSEL: Okay, I guess if you can give us a short overview -. Would that be possible?
COTTLE: Yes.
OLSON: Mr. Chairperson, Peter Olson for the Crumrine Family Trust. If Ms. Maija is going to
do a presentation, she is a party to this matter and I have a right to cross-examine her before we
start on this matter.
HOUSEL: No, she is not a party.
OLSON: Okay, well, we object to this.
HOUSEL: I’m going to have to overrule that objection, sorry.Maija?
COTTLE: The subject application is an SMA use permit. This is a Special Management Area
use permit, and the applicant is Dr. William Foulk. The subject property is located in the North
Kona District about three miles south of Kailua-Kona, and it’s located along Hlualoa Bay just
on the north edge of the bay. You can see the subject property outlined in black on the slide in
this location. Ali‘i Drive is located on the eastern boundary of the property and runs in a north-
south direction through the middle of the slide here. And then the property is also located along
the shoreline that makes up the western boundary of the property.
This map shows the current zoning of the property, as well as the surrounding properties. You
can see the purple areas are zoned Resort-Hotel and the green areas are zoned Open. The areas
zoned Multi-Family Residential are shown in brown. And this is a close-up view of the
property; again, you can see the subject property outlined in black, the two properties to the north
and south are zoned Resort-Hotel, and then beyond that the properties are zoned Open along the
shoreline. This is the Kona Community Development Plan map, and the subject property is
located right about in this general area where the dot is shown; it’s not located in a Transient
Oriented Development designated area, but it is located within the Kona Urban area.
This is an aerial photo of the property. You can see the two existing dwellings; this is the main
dwelling in the middle of the slide and a second dwelling just north of that. You can also see the
triangle-shape pool out on the lava near the shoreline, and Ali‘i Drive running, again, in a north-
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south direction. There are two dwellings nearby. The Crumrine dwelling is located just to the
north here, and the neighbor, Mr. Ghalamfarsa, his house is located here just to the south. This is
a shoreline photo of the property, just a perspective view looking at all the structures; again, you
have the main dwelling here, the second dwelling just north of that, the triangular shape pool and
the two neighbors’ houses – the one to the north and the one to the south.
The applicant is proposing to develop a 16-unit condominium building and related
improvements, consisting of demolishing the existing dwelling, the guesthouse and the shed, and
removing the existing rock wall that’s located along Ali‘i Drive.They are proposing to construct
a four-story above grade building containing 16 two-bedroom condo units, as well as
constructing 23 underground parking stalls, and landscaping. The existing pool that I showed
earlier and the concrete pool deck, as well as all of the legal rock walls along the shoreline,
within the shoreline setback area, will be retained.
This is a certified shoreline survey of the property. It’s a little difficult to see on the slide, but
you can see the shoreline is shown in red – it’s kind of outlined in red here – and it generally
runs along the location of the existing rock walls and it’ll just follow it along here.
This is the slide of the applicant’s landscape plan, and again – we use the landscape plan rather
than a site plan because the applicant had overlaid flood zone information on the site plan and it
was a little difficult to see – so this is the landscape plan that shows the proposed condominium
building in the middle of the property. Again, you can see the existing triangle-shape pool out
here, as well as a few of the legal, non-conforming rock walls. The purple line on the slide
indicates the location of the 20-foot shoreline setback, so that is the area mauka of which the
structure can be built, but makai of which they cannot build anything new without a shoreline
setback variance.
And this is an elevation of the property. Again, you can see, this is the ocean side here and the
Ali‘i Drive side here, so you’d be looking north from this perspective. And this is a perspective
if you are looking south; you see the ocean on the right side of the slide, Ali‘i Drive would be
located about in this area of elevation on the left side of the slide. This is a view of the proposed
condo building looking mauka, and looking makai. Are there any questions?
HOUSEL: Thank you, Maija.
COTTLE: You’re welcome.
HOUSEL: If we get the lights on -. I’d like to announce that we did open the other side here.
Unfortunately, we’re going to have to try to find some chairs, not enough chairs for a while, so
please bear with us. We appreciate all your patience. Somebody turning the lights on – there we
go, okay. Okay, let me explain our process today: In the Planning Commission Rules 4-20, we
require, which requires public testimony prior to the commencement of the hearing to be taken
on each day of the hearings. That’s it? Okay. So we will start with taking public testimony.
We have – it looks like 15 people, maybe, yeah – 15 people signed up so far. I’ll take you in the
order, I believe, of we got -. Okay, I think we are ready. I’d like to call our first six people.
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Please come up and sit at the table: K. Angel Pilago, Kevin Seiter, Subhadra, Tricia Malanka,
Curren J. H. Meyers and Corbett Roy. Please be seated, and please use the microphones. If you
could please start -. Well, I guess I’ll swear you all in, if you could hold the microphone, please,
and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the
Hawai‘i County Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
HOUSEL: Thank you. I guess we’ll start with you on the far right there. Oops, sorry, I couldn’t
see you.
CORCORAN: Good morning. My name is Subhadra and I’m very much against this project. I
don’t think there is enough room there for this building. I don’t think we want it to be on the
makai side of Ali‘i Drive -.
HOUSEL: I’m sorry, hold on just a minute. Could you give your full name and address, please?
CORCORAN: Yes, I can. Is this on? Can you hear me? My full name is Diane Corcoran. My
address is 77-297 Kalani Way here in Kona, Kailua-Kona. Is that okay?
HOUSEL: Yes, thank you.
CORCORAN: Okay, again, I’m opposed to this project. I think that the main economy here is
still tourism. I don’t think we want to be interrupting our view. I think very few people stand to
gain from doing this, just very few, and I think all of us stand to lose something as we lose the
beauty of this town by putting buildings right up against the ocean.I don’t think that’s
necessary. I don’t think it’s economically wise. I don’t think it’s very kind to the people that
surf there and picnic there and spend time there. It will definitely interrupt the view, if you are
out in the ocean, sitting there, catching a wave or two. I don’t see any reason we don’t have to
consider the surfers and the other people that make use of the ocean here.It would take the view
from them, too. But I think, even more important, more important, we have to consider the
economy. We have to consider what those tourists will see when they drive up and down that
little strip. It’s not a very big strip, is it? And that’s all I really have to say. Thank you so much.
HOUSEL: In the interest of time, because we’ve got a full agenda, please hold your applause, so
we can keep this moving. Thank you. Next.
MALANKA: My name is Tricia Malanka, 77-356 Paulina Place, Kailua-Kona. I’ll keep my
remarks short and sweet. They apply to everyone who has been a party to this – the developer,
the personal, the doctor who wants to make the development and you folks: Just because you
can, it doesn’t mean you should.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Again, please hold your applause, so we can keep this on schedule.
Thank you. Could you give your -?
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SEITER: Good morning, Council (sic) Members. My name is Kevin Seiter. I’ve been
practicing law in Kona for 30 years and I often been on the side representing the coastline, which
I call the silent victim. But I’m glad to be here today not as an advocate for any particular point
of view – I’m sure you’re going to hear a plenty of that – but rather to propose to you a win-win
solution to this problem. And it would start out by denying without prejudice the SMA – and
I’m sure you’re going to hear a plenty of testimony about the legalities or illegalities of the
proposed SMA – because we have a solution at hand and that is I was involved, as some of the
Council (sic) members may have been, with the Hanl’s situation, which is virtually identical to
this, and we were capable of creating a park when no one said it could be done. And I’m sure
Ms. Leithead Todd will recall we were able to do it by putting together a community
organization and make a small miracle happen. We need more parks; we don’t need more
condos. So I think that if this project, if this SMA application is denied without prejudice, give
us some time to meet with the Council members and the appropriate people in the government to
explore this opportunity. I think, again, that we can all come out in a win-win situation;
everybody saves face, and we get something that we need a lot more than a bigger inventory of
condominiums. So I want to thank you for allowing me this opportunity to at least point this out
to you as an alternative to what is going to be expensive protracted litigation, if this thing is
granted. And I don’t say that as a threat or promise – I’m too old to fight that battle anymore; I
say that as, look, we have a way out of this thing, that everybody can benefit from, especially the
community and that’s who really needs to benefit from this. Thank you very much.
HOUSEL: Mr. Seiter, could you state your address, please?
SEITER: Sure, it’s 75-650 Mahi Iulani Place, Kailua-Kona 96740.
HOUSEL: Thank you very much. Please go ahead and use the microphone. Your name and
address, please.
C. ROY: I represent the spirit of my ancestors before me, au hulu kupuna kahiko -.
SAUER: Sir, sir, please hold the microphone -.
HOUSEL: Yeah -.
C. ROY: I’m here to speak -. If you want me to repeat, I’ll repeat myself.
HOUSEL: Could you give your name and address, please?
C. ROY: I will, sir, if you would be patient.
HOUSEL: Sure.
C. ROY: Where did I leave off? Oh, I’m here to represent my kupuna kahiko as a steward of
this land. My name is Corbett Roy, longtime resident of this Kona area. My family has been
here for a few hundred years and we are still considered -. This land down here is pristine,
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historic, and for that reason, we’d like to preserve some of it from being overridden by
condominiums for rentals. However, I’m not here to create a problem; I’m just here to try to
influence you to do the right thing, in my opinion, as a steward of the land. And the right thing
would be to slow down. Slow down. I can’t say it anymore. We are here to protect not only the
land today, but the historic presence of our kupuna kahiko, and that includes Ili Kalkaua,
Keakamahana, Keawekekahi, Alapa‘inui – you name all of them, they resided there and they
worshiped there. So if you take this condominium, you will be destroying part of our heritage.
Thank you very much.
PILAGO: Greetings, Chairperson Housel. My name is Angel Pilago. I reside at 73-1224
Ka‘iminani Drive, here in Kailua. Thank you, Members of the Leeward Planning Commission
for being here this day, Director Todd for putting the meeting together, and Counsel Gonzalez,
thank you all and the staff. This morning I will discuss three precedents that will give you cause
to deny the SMA application, 10-41: One is from a historical precedent, the other one is a legal
precedent, and the third is a community precedent. As you know, I wrote a bill making the
Charter amendment to create two Planning Commissions from which you exist today. You and
we are the same. We here as family and neighbors are here to protect our resources to protect
our people and to make sure our history moves to the future. Out of that there is a historical
precedent. No matter what this applicant says in terms that they can because they have a zoning
precedence to allow for this SMA application, remind you that in the 1995 past Kohanaiki case
that was verified up in the United States in 1997, one of the precepts was that because the native
laws predate western fee-simple laws, both were held by agencies and institutions, such as
yourself, to be on equal footing. What it also says is that we the people who are descendants
from the prehistory contact have precedence. And I need to remind you that you are charged, as
we, to protect our resources and our ‘ina. Again, that is adjudicated in Hawai‘i State Supreme
Court in 1995, again reaffirmed at the United States level in 1997. A follow-up to that was a
Supreme Court case, Ka Pa‘akai O Ka ‘ina in 2000 – that was Four Seasons here – again it was
re-verified, and that created the Legislative Act 50 that the native lands belong in a public trust.
And you are obligated to protect the environmental and cultural resources that allow cultural
practices to continue, or else the history of our people is severely destroyed and diminished,
severely diminished and even destroyed. We ask you to consider these things. So these are the
legal precedents. The historical precedence, again, Hawaiian law predates western law, you
must use that in your recommendation to the Council. That gives you cause and validity to deny
this SMA. The community precedent that Kevin spoke of earlier is that there was a government,
community and private agreement that created Honl’s. You should work to bring about these
kinds of agreement. Again, the people you see here today are (inaudible) in that here we called
are not to compete against you, and you should not insulate the developer; but we are here to
protect our cultural practice, which is surfing, which is fishing, which are religious practices, and
remind you that you are treading on ground, as we are, to protect the civil rights of the people
that are here, that you are purview and responsible to protect.I see amongst your groups, friends
and neighbors, cultural practitioners, all, reach into your heart. Deny SMA 10-41.
HOUSEL: Would you like to proceed, please? State your name and address.
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MEYERS: Yeah, my name is Curren Meyers. I live at 77-6424 Mahelani Street. And I’m
representing myself and the local people over here, all the regular surfers, you know. So I’ve
been surfing there for about 15 years. And enough is enough – enough condos, you know. The
last thing I want to see is, riding the wave, looking at those condos. So, pau, enough. Thank
you.
HOUSEL: Are you going to provide testimony?
PUBLIC ATTENDEE: I just didn’t have a seat.
HOUSEL: Okay. Thank you very much. I’ll call the next six people to testify. Could William
Duncan please come forward? Malia Chaul, Shannon Rudolph, Lorelei Jones, Myrna Thomas
and Kupuna Hannah Reeves, please come to the table and have a seat. Could you please hold the
microphone up? I realize we don’t have enough microphones, but -. Could you raise your right
hand, please? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawai‘i
County Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
HOUSEL: Thank you. We’ll start on my far left here. Would you please give your name and
address?
JONES: My name is Lorelei Jones. I live at 76-6190 Plumeria Road, Kailua-Kona, Hawai‘i. I
oppose the condo because we don’t need any more condos. And if you guys keep putting it up
and let him, permitting them to do it, what is there left for our kids and our grandchildren? And
the tourists come here to see the sight and the shorelines and all this and that; they don’t come to
see the condos. And that’s all I have to say. Thank you.
THOMAS: Good morning. My name is Myrna Thomas. I reside at 73-1139 Oluolu Street in
Kailua-Kona. I’m very deeply opposed to this development. It’s only because we have enough
condos as it is on Ali‘i Drive where there is no public access, hardly. And when we do try to use
the public access, people from their condos will come out as homeowners and try to say to us
that we are trespassing. And all we are trying to do is get the food that we were born and raised
with from our ocean. And if there’s more condos here, our fish won’t taste the same, the food
that we eat won’t taste the same. Because of all the development, all this poison thing that’s
going into our water – that’s making us sick. Way back when, when we were growing up, us
Hawaiian people, my grandmas and their parents, we never heard of cancer, we never heard of
hepatitis, all this kind of stuff. Now that we come down to Kailua, all these buildings are coming
up left and right. Hawai‘i, old Hawaiian kupuna, they are dying left and right because what we
are feeding them from our ocean. So I just want to say no more condos. We want to live longer
than them. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
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RUDOLPH: Aloha. My name is Shannon Rudolph. My address is Post Office Box 243,
Hlualoa 96725. I just want to say thank you for opening up the room, and I hope in the future
when you have contentious applications in front of you, that you plan ahead for more chairs, so it
doesn’t slow things down. Thank you.
I just looked the other day and saw that there were about 402 foreclosures just in town, not even
counting outside of town. There’s already so many empty condos along Ali‘i Drive and other
areas. I just really don’t think this housing is necessary. I don’t think it’s necessary to build
more condos on the shoreline. As our area grows, we are really, really going to need more open
space around town. Because the prices of gas is going up, more people are gong to move here,
and people need these places to stay sane. We need this area to stay open. Thank you.
CHAUL: Aloha. My name is Malia Chaul, 77-6479 Akai Street, Kailua-Kona. As
Commissioners of our Leeward Land Use Commission (sic), it is your responsibility to preserve
and protect Hawai‘i’s lands, and encourage those uses to which the lands are best suited. That
being said, the Kona Coast currently has over 2,200 vacation rental homes and condos at which
the occupancy rates are averaging 50 percent. We clearly do not need any new vacation rental
developments anywhere, let alone on this precious bit of coastline.If the obvious unnecessary
need for vacation rentals isn’t enough, consider the Hlualoa Royal Center. It’s a 28-acre parcel
just south of this proposed development. Thankfully, due to hard work of numerous community
members, like yourselves, these lands have been acquired by the State and Keolonhihi and
Kekealaniwahine are now in State’s possession and our State Historical Park. The reason for
the State’s acquirement of this property is clear: This is a significant archaeological district and
cultural site. This area, along with the proposed development area, along with the rest of the
Kona Coast, and entire coastline of our islands of Hawai‘i were cultural sites. My ancestors
lived here. They worked here. And in respect to Kamoa Bay, they played there. We don’t need
an archaeologist to tell us that. The point is this: Development in our not-so-sleepy Kailua-Kona
is inevitable. I’ve seen building after building go up since I was a keiki, and Kona will continue
to grow long after I’m gone. But my hope, and your responsibility as members of this
community, is to preserve what little we have left, so that our children and our children’s
children have open space to enjoy. I encourage you all members of the community to go to the
Land Use Commission websites and check out the pending petitions. You’d be surprised to see
what plans developers have for our island. Stay informed. Pay attention to the signage fronting
these properties. We need to show up for all the land use meetings where urban zoning and
developmental zoning is the goal. We need to protect our island from unnecessary development.
Mahalo for your time. Thank you for letting me share my mana‘o. And again, this development
is unnecessary and unwanted. The community has voiced its opinion. Please honor it. Mahalo.
REEVES: Aloha. Thank you so much for today and really I appreciate all of you. It is an honor
and privilege to come before you. I am Kupuna Hannah Wahinemaikai o Ka‘ahumanu
Keli‘iulananioleo Kalama(kane) Reeves. I was born and raised in Hawai‘i, for generations
before white men came. I’m connected to Kamehameha I and the high priest. All the people in
here, the Hawaiians, they are connected to me. We are very strong people. We are not going to
give up, from the mountain to the sea, the moku and ili, ahupua‘a on all the islands. I’m letting
everybody know that this is my job, is to protect our people. We need the ocean. We need the
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mountain. We need to take care of our kuleana, all the heiau, all the pu‘u, all the trail, all the
grave, from the top to the bottom. And I can tell you right now, I’m connected to the area.I
have no fear to sit down and talk story. But I want you folks to know that I’m not only in
Hawai‘i; I am on five islands right now, letting everybody know that it’s time for the Hawaiian
people to go home, to go on the land, take care of our ancestors. Now, if you folks are building
up, this is not the place to build; this is the place to give back to the Hawaiian people. It’s time
for them to go home. Because of the United States and the Big Five – they did a lot of damage
to the Hawaiian people for over 200 years. I am standing here for our people. We’ve been in the
islands for over 1,000 years – the moku, all the way to the ahupua‘a, all the way down to the
ocean, 300 miles, and right around the island. Every island belongs to the Hawaiian people. I’m
connected to two kings and all of the kahunas on all the islands. I want you folks to know that
this is really serious because Congress is acting up right now about us. Thank you very much.
HOUSEL: Excuse me. Could you please give your address before you leave?
REEVES: Oh, I thought I wrote it down on the paper.
HOUSEL: Yeah, would it be possible for you to state your address?
REEVES: Yeah.
HOUSEL: Okay, thank you.
REEVES: Thank you.
HOUSEL: Okay. Would you like to proceed?
DUNCAN: It’s tough to follow that. My name is William Duncan, William Kawika Duncan -.
HOUSEL: Closer to the microphone.
DUNCAN: Sorry. My name is William Kawika Duncan. I’ve been fortunate enough, as all of
you have, to live here my entire life. I’ve seen a lot of development in that time. And I realize
that coming here and looking all of you in the eye is the only way to express what the people
want. I have a question for the audience: Is Mr. Foulk in here?
HOUSEL: If you could please give your testimony to the Commission.
DUNCAN: It is to you, sir, sorry, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to point that out because you are
here to represent the people, and here we are. And you will notice who isn’t here. Now, I really
can’t add anything to anything that was said prior to this, to lend any more weight to your
decision, other than to let you know that it resides with you. We trust you – that’s why you are
in your position. And I implore you to look into your heart and look for the answer there. I
think there has been at least one good suggestion today that you can look to as a possible
solution. But beyond that, I don’t see how this is in the best interest of the community that you
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have chosen to serve and said that you would honor that decision. I look to you, as do all of us in
this room. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Could you give your address, please?
DUNCAN: My address, yes, sorry, it’s 75-6152 Plumeria Road.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Commissioners, do you have any questions of the testifiers? Thank you.
Thank you very much. We’ll call the next people who would like to testify: Benjamin Cohn,
Debbie Tanaka, Eugene Schmitz and Nancy Coppola – and we have two more – Kevin Seiter
and Simmy McMichael. Oh, Okay, Kevin already testified, so we will not have him come back.
Is that Irminsul? If you could please pick up the microphone and raise your right hand. I’ll ask
you all at the same time. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the
Planning Commission? Please say aye, if you -.
TESTIFIERS: Aye.
HOUSEL: Thank you. We’ll start on this side. If you would state your name and address,
please, using the microphone.
COHN: Hi, my name is Benjamin Cohn. My address is P. O. Box 368, Hlualoa, Hawai‘i
96725. I was born and raised here in Kona. My father practices law with Kevin Seiter who
testified earlier. What gets me mostly about this is all the pollution that it causes during the
building process and after the building from the sewage and things that run off during people’s,
you know, showering and their bathroom usage. And that’s going to make a lot of people sick.
And those sicknesses are going to reflect when people that are sick, seeing you guys here in the
community, when they say, that’s the guy or that’s the girl who, this is the reason why the
condos are here, if you choose to approve this. And anyone who is involved in the project is
going to be charged with that responsibility of this sickness and so it will rest on you.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
TANAKA: My name is Debbie Tanaka. My address is 77-203 Ho‘owaiwai Place, Kailua-Kona.
I just wanted to come today and voice my opinion because I think we need no more condos on
Ali‘i Drive. We need more open land for our people to be able to go and enjoy the ocean and the
sunsets. And enough development already – there’s plenty other places they can build this, not
on Ali‘i Drive. Thank you.
SCHMITZ: My name is Eugene Schmitz. I reside at 77-158 Mahiehie Street, Kailua-Kona
96740. Unlike probably most of the people here, my wife and I have not lived here very long;
we’ve only been here fulltime about six years. We do live close to Ali‘i Drive, and go up and
down it quite often obviously because of, unfortunately, the lack of mauka-makai connectors.
But we do enjoy the drive very much. I do not surf. I don’t really know very many surfers. It’s
great to see that so many people who have to come to testify that are not directly connected with
surfing. What I do enjoy very much about Ali‘i Drive and what I think serves the community
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very much about the space is a sense of openness. It’s one of the few places in a resort type of
setting like this where, you know, if you are like driving down a canyon that’s closed off on both
sides by buildings, and this development will unnecessarily add way too much of that canyon-
like aspect to Ali‘i Drive. People need to see the ocean, feel the breeze coming from the ocean,
and have that much enjoyment. This development obviously will serve some number of people –
both the people who are selling the property, who are developing the property, the builders, the
construction people, the people who would reside there – it would make them happy; but I think
for every one of those there’s probably at least 100 other people who would be on the downside,
if you will, of this development. And finally, I would like to say that I think I’m a fairly good
reader of, by posture and faces, and please, Commission, no disrespect, if I can ask you to raise
your right hands, and please state for the public here that you are listening to us and have not
already made up your minds on this decision, please.
HOUSEL: I’d like to respond to that. We have a responsibility to hear all the evidence before
we make any decision. So I respect what you say and appreciate that. Thank you very much.
SCHMITZ: Thank you. I’ll take, we’ll take you at your word. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Would you like to state your name and address, please?
MCMICHAEL: Simmy McMichael, 75-5702 Likana Lane, Kailua-Kona. I wasn’t born here,
but it was my goal to live here since I was in high school. I was born and raised on O‘ahu. And
O‘ahu grew madly. I can remember riding horses through Kapi‘olani Park when they had polo
races, dancing at the bandstand, dancing at ho‘olaule‘a down Kalkaua, which is now considered
a little mini Rodeo Drive. My goal was to come to Kona and to raise my family the way Waikk
Beach was. When I moved here back in the early ’70’s, there was no traffic lights, absolutely
none. And if you do this and start here on the ocean, this is what O‘ahu and Maui is fighting –
beach loss, stabilizing. And it clearly shows. And this was written by the Board of Land and
Natural Resources, Integrated Shoreline Policies of beach, and is under jurisdiction of the State,
and it says that they are “faced with chronic erosion and land loss, abutting owners feel their only
relief is to harden the shoreline. Unfortunately, this often results in yet another poor decision to
construct seawalls and revetment. The state becomes involved through enforcement actions
further complicating the situation. This is a vicious vector of coastal erosion: flawed planning
producing poor siting, development threatened by erosion, construction of shoreline hardening
leading to beach loss, loss of public resource, access as well as the beach environment. The
present system is almost entirely reactionary and contentious. Because there has been little to no
planning for long-term shoreline change, the response is always time critical and completely
reactionary every time a property owner or agencies encounters an erosion event and potential
property damage that is apparent.” And let me bring up the Banyan’s Bali Kai situation: They
had a rock wall seawall that was illegally entirely removed. They have not yet since 1995 been
able to get a shoreline certification because it was all falsified. On their 2005 document, it shows
that in 1995 was their last certified shoreline survey. In 2005, they did another survey. So 1995
they had 3.037 acres; now they have 2.73 acres, and they lost 1.64 of shoreline. That place and
all of that area is a high risk for sea level -.
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HOUSEL: Could you please summarize? Are you finished?
MCMICHAEL: Yes. I’m against this condo.
HOUSEL: Thank you very -.
MCMICHAEL: You can’t build there. You’re going to have more seawalls and more hardening
of the ocean and beach loss.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
COPPOLA: Oh, this is mine.
HOUSEL: Please go ahead.
COPPOLA: This makes me nervous. My name is Nancy Coppola. I live at 57-35, 5, I’m sorry I
have stage fright, 75-5730 Aloha Road – anyway, I don’t want to give you my address anyway,
my family is in the mafia. You know, how many years is greed going to destroy this planet? If
you don’t think that earth is being destroyed by greed, then you’ve got your heads in a really
dark place. I came here cause I’m like on the edge of the earth, and I’m going, “Please, God,
there’s got to be one place left. Please, God, there’s got to be one place left.” I didn’t even think
that anybody could be that stupid to want to build that place there in this place. I’m, like, what
you’ve got, where is your head? We are, we are each an expression of the creative genius that
made this whole place. It happened to be a good artist, a good scientist, it can blow itself up
now, and happens to be really good with stuff that has to do with beauty.But it’s trying to get its
brain to work, unlike a male, and it’s trying to get its heart, like the female, to be very brave. So
I think we all need to come together and start living in our own righteousness instead of -. And
we don’t need to be greedy anymore. If you are afraid if you have enough, if your ego is so
wonderful that you need to destroy another beautiful place of the earth, if you feel like you need
more money or more power, then I say you’ve got a huge problem, and you should go some
place where nobody is eating anything but rocks and you ought to live with them cause that’s
what you are bringing down on the rest of the world. And we are women and we are sick of it
and we are not going to put up with it anymore. This is a very powerful day. This is,
astrologically, this is a very powerful day for a positive people. If you are not positive, woo hoo
hoo hoo. You can build the condo there, and maybe a tsunami will hit it and maybe it won’t hit
anything else. And I’m not being funny because a lot of us who sat down for a very long time in
all these churches and all these things – hang us in trees, bury us in bogs and burn us at the stake
– and I’m saying it ain’t going to happen no more. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Okay, we have four more testifiers. And I want to ask anybody else who would like
to testify, to please sign up, so we can get all the testimony completed this morning. I’d like to
call the following people: Irminsul, Janice Palma-Glennie, Mehana Kihoi, and Jerome Kanuha
and Ed Rapoza also. Please use the microphone, and if you could raise your right hand, please.
Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission?
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TESTIFIERS: Yes.
HOUSEL: Everyone said yes? Okay, thank you. You have three minutes. Would you state
your name and address, please?
J. KANUHA: Jerome Kanuha, 96740 Kona – I’m joking – Plumeria Road. First of all, I want to
thank all of you for coming. My brother, Junior, was speaking on behalf of the oppositions and
I’m here to speak on behalf of the surfers, also because there’s nobody here surfing longer at
Lyman’s than me – I don’t think anybody here. Point, getting again, we talk about condos. I
don’t know if anybody paddled the surfboard from Niumalu Beach, it’s called Kanuha Beach, in
Kailua and paddled the surfboard all the way down to Banyan’s – I don’t think anybody here did
that. Well, I did when I was a kid because nobody had cars, so we couldn’t, I had to carry my
surfboard or walk half way, put them by Kona Tiki, drop them, I go back out. To make the story
short is that when I grew up, the only hotel that was built was Kona Tiki – only one. Royal Kona
wasn’t there. Kona Tiki was the only one. Kamoa Point, the whole area there is so significant.
When I was a kid, I used to chase all surfers from Honolulu and tell them we never had surf in
Kona, because I knew that place was a most beautiful site there is. And the Lyman’s, I knew the
old people who used to live at the house used to give me a kaukau when I was a small kid cause I
had to paddle my surfboard back. Again, we are looking at some beautiful site that is so
significant, ocean looking in. Anybody needs to look at the site, needs to get out there, all you
guys, not on the ‘ina, go with me, I get two boats, I’ll take you guys at site. Look it. Now,
imagine to put a condo like Bali Kai in 3,000 square feet, that’s how I look at, 3,000 square feet.
Just imagine to see a condo that big from the ocean looking in. We’re all looking at it wrong
now, you guys, whenever come from the land through ocean, looking from the ocean in. Could
you imagine our kupunas come back from the ocean and they look at this big condo? They’ll
say, “What are we doing?” We are destroying the area. And for me myself, I think it’s
important that you guys think about, go home and moe moe a little while, think about this whole
decision you should make. Again, Kevin Seiter had a great solution. Because I was on that
committee, me and Ed, I’d say, we talked about it two years ago, about purchasing the property
to make it an area where people get to sit down and enjoy watching surfers – they are more
beautiful than anything else, surfers. But again, think, go home, moe moe a little bit, and think
what’s really important in your hearts. And this I say mahalo nui loa.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Could you state your name and address, please?
KIHOI: Mehana Kihoi, 83-5412 Middle Ke‘ei Road, Hnaunau, Hawai‘i. Growing up as a
Hawaiian, I’ve always been taught to respect and to listen to my kupuna. And they’ve spoken.
When Kupuna Roy was up here, if you didn’t feel when he was speaking, I don’t know what to
say, cause I was in my chair and it brought tears to my eyes just seeing how strong he felt about
what this is doing to our ‘ina. Cause they are the last of our perseverance of Hawai‘i, and we
need to listen to them. Cause there is not a lot that’s left, so we need to respect their wishes.
And Kamoa Bay is the last breath of fresh air on Ali‘i Drive. And I want to just give respect to
that. ‘ina mlama ka ‘ina, mlama i kekai, aloha kekahi i kekahi. And building a condo, I
don’t see how it benefits us as a community as Hawaiians. It’s taking care of tourists that come
and go. And it’s not doing anything for our keiki who are going to be here for the rest of their
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lives and their keiki’s lives. So I just want to mlama what we have and take care of one
another. I come with peace and positivity and I thank you for this time. Mahalo.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
PALMA-GLENNIE: Aloha. My name is Janice Palma-Glennie and my address is P. O. Box
4849, Kailua-Kona. And Mahalo for listening to us today. I really appreciate the testimony
that’s gone before me; it’s been very moving.
As the only planning body representing the interest of West Hawai‘i residents, this Commission
must deny the request of this SMA permit. Besides the obvious environmental, cultural and
aesthetic reasons why this complex is inappropriate for the sensitive site, there are also issues of
concurrency as it relates to smart growth. These are more than concepts in our county. They are
now laws through the Kona Community Development Plan. Though this parcel received the
zoning pre-CDP, the community-driven plan mandates sustainability and integrity in land use
planning, and demands that additional high-density development be denied along this corridor
until adequate infrastructure exists to handle it. The mega condo and housing development
approved during the last 25 years has been predicated upon the construction of a far distant, and
unfortunately probably false claim, that a relief road would be built parallel to Ali‘i Drive. This
road was promised to handle the impossibly increasing infrastructure deficit and was used time
and again as an excuse for permitting more and more development along this corridor. This joke
of non-planning has proven an increasing nuisance and danger for residents of the area, and has
spread its poison to recreational users and others who want to use alternative transportation like
biking and walking to minimize the need for motor vehicles. Sadly, but not unusually, this
speculator sees Kona as nothing more than a cash cow – and I just found this out – but even
though that it’s shocking that this is where this talented person whom I’ve known for decades has
chosen to go. I didn’t know that until just now. And Cory must have more money than sense or
his head in the clouds, if he thinks there is an economic need for this development at this time or
if he imagines that it’s the right thing to do. Fortunately, law makers don’t have to follow such a
mistaken lead. This site obviously demands that a scale-down project be built. And to avoid
excessive damage to the shoreline, viewplane, natural airflow, which includes energy use,
cultural and historic resources and infrastructure of the area, nothing more than the existing low-
rise single family residence, if anything, should be built out there. This Commission’s job is to
make choices that protect West Hawai‘i’s community and resources above speculative schemes.
Giving an SMA permit is a choice, not a given, otherwise why go through a permitting process at
all. Will this Commission continue the joke of a legacy of rubberstamping project after project,
even though the County knew the alternative road these plans depend upon had at best been in a
25-year holding pattern and that was ten years ago? Please do your job of community
representation and true land use planning by denying this SMA permit. Mahalo.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
RAPOZA: Good morning, Chairman Housel, Planning Director Leithead Todd and
Commissioners. My name is Ed Rapoza. I live in Kailua-Kona. I have been on the planning
committee for the Community Development Plan as well, and although Janice and I had debated
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on many occasions, this time we are on the same side of the table. I’ve also been involved in
creating what we now know as Honl’s Beach Park. And what I would invite is the opportunity
to meet with the owners of this property to see how we can come up with a positive solution for
all, including the community, as well as the owner, in creating a solution whereby we have
another beach park in that location. I would ask the Commission to perhaps defer action on this
till we can meet with community members and the former committee, meet with the owners, and
see if we can mitigate both their financial needs, as well as community needs. So I would invite
that opportunity and be a part of a committee to head that up. I look forward to your deferral on
this matter. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you, Mr. Rapoza. If you’d like to be seated. Is there any -? Do we have
anyone else? Is Irminsul here? Okay, I guess not. And Mikahala Roy, would you please come
forward? Oh, okay, we’ve got three more here: Malia Kipapa, Leinani Navas-Loa, Toni Owen,
Ulrich Bonne – I guess we’re going to have a full table, if everybody shows up. Please be
seated. Could you use the microphone, and raise your right hand, please? Do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
HOUSEL: Thank you. I guess we’ll start on the left far side here. Could you please state your
name and address?
BONNE: My name is Ulrich Bonne. I live on Laelae Street in Kailua-Kona, Hawai‘i 96740.I
appreciate all the comments I’ve heard this morning and your patience in listening to us. And
my short comment is really more a question than a comment; but I wonder, to what extent in the
spirit of win-win, has it been discussed or considered to use, set aside one percent or two percent
land use funds to acquire this parcel in order to move in the direction of adding this parcel to
open space as many of the community witnesses have testified this morning. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
KIPAPA: Aloha. My name is Malia Kipapa, currently reside here in Kailua-Kona, originally
from Keokaha. I guess, this is in talk about a special use permit for this place, I totally disagree
with it being passed. I feel that in so many ways it’s already violating so much laws. And you
guys probably already heard it through this past testimony that was already given – I just got
here, so I don’t know what was said before I came – but I’m sure you guys already heard it; you
guys don’t need to hear from me again. But I’m just saying that there are so much violations
being done just through this development plans. It just hurts to see that through this example of
development throughout the shoreline of the entire Ali‘i Drive, it just sticks out like a sore thumb
already. So everybody talking is pau already, you know, you cannot really say much, just look.
Observe like our kupuna did, that you guys can see that that’s the desecration of our kupuna’s
iwi and the cultural sites. It’s sore as one Hawaiian to see it with my own eyes. And hopefully,
you guys can see through that, too, if those of you on this board that -. You know, you don’t
need to be Hawaiian to understand that, just an individual that -. If you guys are going to decide
to pass this permit and allow the development to take place, I don’t know how you guys are
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going to be able to sleep at night, knowing that you guys were part of that process, because it’s
detrimental. It’s just the future – we’ve got to think about our keiki and our ohana after we
leave, you know. We cannot think about the here-and-now. We’ve got to think the way our
kupuna thought; they thought way in advance than we have, more than I can even comprehend.
And I keep on repeating kupuna, kupuna, because if it wasn’t for them, we wouldn’t be here
today. And I want to acknowledge them because there is mana, there is mana in this area, and
you know. Because, look across the street, you see any houses over there? No more nothing.
And it’s not only here, it’s the entire Ali‘i Drive, all the ahupua‘a from the bottom all way up to
the mountain, they get iwi all in that area. And I know because some of my kupuna is buried
there. And to be, as a lineal descendant and have ohana that’s buried there, I just speak on behalf
of my kupuna there and the burial sites there that, you know, enough is enough. And we need to,
you know, you guys sit here and you guys are going to make a very big and important decision
and, you know, we have to go with what you guys go by because you guys make the final
decision. But I hope that, you know, you guys can take into, regard everyone’s mana‘o and
thoughts of what they think about this plans being passed. And just mahalo for your folks’ time
and for being here and allowing me to give a testimony. Mahalo.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Excuse me, could you give your address, please?
KIPAPA: I just moved, so I don’t really know my address. I’ll give you my Hilo address but
not my Kona one. But I just moved like two weeks ago, so -.
HOUSEL: Okay, if you could give your Hilo address, that would be good.
KIPAPA: Okay, 179 Krauss Avenue, Hilo, Hawai‘i 96720.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
NAVAS-LOA: Aloha mai kakou. Aloha e n kupuna a me n ‘aumkua a me n mea a pau.
Aloha. My name is Leinani Navas-Loa. I reside at 84-5108 Painted Church Road down in
Hnaunau. And I actually never know I had the testimony today until I went drive by and this
tita went stop me on the side of the road and I went hold signs with her. But anyway, like in any
place that you go to, you know, in Hawai‘i, we’re all fighting for the same thing. I’m a cultural
practitioner. I’m an educator, a Hawaiian educator. I teach young children about the ‘ina,
about the kahakai. And when I heard about this development, I was, like, you’ve got to be
kidding me, because we are all there trying to educate our children for the future and to become
strong leaders; but when they see these kinds of development that’s going up, it kind of makes
them feel like, oh, should we even try to fight? And basically, what my point is is that we need
to keep these wahipana and these sacred places sacred. Do you folks realize the area that you are
in, you folks are in Kekealaniwahine’s complex? And Kekealaniwahine’s complex is not only
where it is that you see on the map; it’s the whole area, and when you disturb her, you disturb the
whole place and the Keolonhihi complex as well. A lot of people, you know, from the
mainland think that, okay, this is your place, this little spot right here; but we are talking about a
whole area. The sacredness of these places need to be protected and need to be kept for our
future generations. So, yes, we are against this development, and we are actually against any
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other development that’s going to go up on Ali‘i Drive, because we need to save this place for
our kamalii and for our future. Mahalo.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
M. ROY: Aloha mai kakou. My name is Mikahala Roy. My address is P. O. Box 596, Kailua-
Kona. And Mr. Rapoza did not give his address, so you might want to ask for his address.
Aloha kakou. I’m a descendant of the ancestors of Kaluaokalani, resident of Kona, and Kahu of
Ahu‘ena Heiau at Kamakahonu. Kamakahonu is the capital of the united Hawaiian Islands, and
this year hui commemorate the bicentennial of the unification under Kamehameha the Great.
My testimony today is in opposition to the SMA application of Dr. Foulk to build a 16-unit
rd
condo in Hlualoa 3. African writer, Ngugi Wa Thiongo said “colonization makes you feel that
your past is one wasteland and it makes you want to distance yourself from that wasteland.”
Colonization is the cause of the voiceless condition of Kanaka. Colonization is the malady that
accounts for the interruption of a way of life, nohona, for Kanaka Maoli, first people of Hawai‘i.
Colonization is to blame when western planning models applied on the continental U.S. are
applied to Pacific Islands and to Pacific Islanders. Such is the case with the KCDP formulated
by planners from Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. For ancestors of Kanaka Maoli living upon this coast
over the past 2,000 years, there were no conflicting philosophies in their lives such as we, their
descendants, have today. They accepted everything that had to do with that which was sacred for
them, and things became sacred because their parents before them, and theirs before them,
practiced the same ceremonies and rituals and recited the same invocations or pule.
I’m about to bring attention to the lore of Kanaka Maoli that spans more than 2,000 years. It is
impossible for America to fathom, let alone understand, the quantity of the following data or its
importance to the Kanaka Maoli. America is 232 years old this year. America is unfamiliar with
the likes of oral traditions and the spirituality of Kanaka Maoli. The U.S. occupation began here
in 1893. They regarded the traditions of Kanaka Maoli as curiosities. Today, our traditions are
seen as commodities to be marketed for tourism.
One of the interesting facts about Kona is the existence of more than 150 ahupua‘a along the
lands north to south. This is due to the high productivity of the land and high populations of
Kanaka Maoli. This is what the Reverend William Ellis found on his examination of our lands in
1823. While writings by famous historians, both Hawaiian and non, are void of mention of a lost
city of Kaluaokalani. Ellis’ account clearly calls attention to his visit to “Kanuaokalani,” the
second heaven.
Likewise, Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian historians are silent on Hale O Pi‘ilani Heiau, qualified
by Dr. Sinoto of the Bishop Museum as the largest Heiau not only in Hawai‘i but in the whole
Pacific. Members of the Hawai‘i Historic Places Review Board in 2003 understood my
testimony that written documentation by Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian scholars, such as
Fornander, Kepelino, for Kaluaokalani are non-existent. And that’s perhaps due to sacred nature
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of both places. They were so sacred, little was spoken of the ritual and care of these ‘ina la‘a,
(sacred lands). These were placed especially -.
HOUSEL: I’m sorry. Could you please summarize?
M. ROY: Surely. I might ask if anyone in the population might want to forfeit their three
minutes to me.
HOUSEL: I’m sorry we can’t do that. So if -.
M. ROY: No?
HOUSEL: You could please summarize, so we can get the next testimony.
M. ROY: You know, for the record, three minutes is highly inadequate, and is considered the
epitome expression of disrespect to a culture that is 2,000 and more years old. I will summarize.
Would you give me about 60 seconds?
HOUSEL: Yes.
M. ROY: Mu was the name by which ancient Hawaiians knew their remote ancestors of Ka Lua.
Ka Lani refers to the heavens, or heavenly. Ka Lua – ancient Hawaiian name for the lost
continent the vast body of which once thrust above the surface of the South Pacific. Ka Lua was
known to the inhabitants of pre-Christian Hawai‘i as “The Empire of the Sun.” It has been
referred to as the Lost Continent of Mu, or Lemuria by European scholars, but the old Hawaiians
knew it by several different names: Lu‘a – throwing of fire, sometimes this word was
pronounced lua, meaning a pit; Ka Lu a – the pit of fire that radiates light, the spring from which
water flows, the pit that sprang from the flame of the sun; Ka Lua O Lani – the pit of Heaven, the
spring of Heaven.
In the late -. Innumerable legends color ancient and modern literature about the Tree of Life and
the Serpent. In the Biblical legend it states that angels wielded swords of fire around the Garden
of Eden, Mu, to prevent the reentry of Adam and Eve. Mu sank into a fiery abyss. The flames
of the fires of the underneath rose and enveloped her body as she went down. Her sinking and
submergence made it impossible for man to return to the land.
In the late nineties, I named a child in relation to a dream I had. The child lives today. This
dream was, it showed glowing tree suspended above what looked like an island. The island was
surrounded by dark water. There was light streaming into this otherwise old, dark scene. The
feeling I had was this was a look upon a very hallowed place. The name given the child was
Kaulana-ke-kupono-o-ke-kai-uli-o-ke-kumula‘au-ola. Translated it means “Famed is the
righteousness in the mysterious waters surrounding the tree of life.”
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We are able to stand in the presence of the Creator when we release all our anger, we release all
our fear, we forgive ourselves, we forgive those who have wronged us, we practice unconditional
love, we practice living in the now in the present moment.
In Hawai‘i, the Heiau respected as most powerful through Kamehameha’s day were those
dedicated to Ku. That practice is true. The human sacrifice and all practices related to human
sacrifice are not true to our practices.
So all the heiau of the Pacific represent the beginning of all religions today. They represent
man’s quest to bring the knowledge of the heavens to the earth.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
M. ROY: Thank you.
OWEN: Hello, I’m -. Switch?
HOUSEL: No switch, yeah. You can use that one, please.
OWEN: Hello. My name is Toni Owen.
HOUSEL: Can you hold that a little closer to your mouth?
OWEN: My name is Toni Owen and my address is P. O. Box 439, Hlualoa 96725. I, too, came
a little bit late, so I’ve only been here for about half an hour and I haven’t heard all the
testimonials; so excuse me, if I am being redundant. I also came from O‘ahu about 20 years ago,
and I came to this island because it was not as populated, and there was a lot more open space.
So and, because of all the permits that they permitted on O‘ahu, I didn’t want to stay on that
island. Anyway, I’m a bike rider that has been riding Ali‘i Drive for 20 years. So I go all the
way up from Kona, from the Old Airport all the way down to the end of the world and come
back, and I do this three to four times a week. So I have seen from another point of view being
on a bike, not being in a car, not walking, not being a surfer although I’m a water person – I go
in the water a lot. And through that drive, through that ride there, which is approximately eight
miles from town to the end of the road and back, there are countless of, there are countless of
condominiums, you can just rattle off the names, there’s got to be 30 or 40 of them, although
there are only three places that I ride past that I can really see the beach from not just a little
pocket but that I can see the beach, and that’s at Honl’s Surf, that’s at Lyman’s and that’s at
Kahalu‘u Beach, and that is it. You know, this place is priceless. Don’t, don’t sell out for, you
know, a condo that we don’t need; that there is a desire in the community to have -. They
haven’t even filled all the condos with the economy the way it is today. They don’t have all
those condos filled – those 40 umpteen condos down on Ali‘i Drive. We don’t need it. But you
know what? We need that open space; we need it for us, we need it for our keiki, we need it for
future generations. Again, it is priceless. And I come from a construction background. I am
unemployed. I would love to have a job. But I would like to have a job building something that
is correct, not building something that is incorrect. And like the previous testimonial, I don’t
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have to say this to you. Just go down there, go ride a bike down there, go drive the car slow, go
walk, go see and feel it. Don’t just look at it from a map. Go down, and go up and down Ali‘i
Drive on a weekday, go at different times of the day, go on a weekend, and you go and see what
it feels like over there. And another thing is Lyman’s is one of the few places that you can take,
that I see all the surfers take their little keiki to middle age to teenagers to the kupuna down
there, you know. Save it. Save it for us, save it for the community and for the world as a whole.
Thank you for listening. Aloha.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Okay, we have two more people that would like to testify: Lori Jean
Kunewa and Anna le Coque. If you could please use the microphone. Yeah, if you could pick
up the microphone, please, and if you could both raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm
to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: Yes.
HOUSEL: Thank you. We’ll start with you. If you’d like to give your name and address,
please.
LE COQUE: My name, Anna le Coque, and I want to say something very short. I think that this
is so stupid and ridiculous. I feel bad for people who have to go through the stress over
something unimaginable. You know what? There should be no buildings on Ali‘i Drive, all
these chicken coops, they should be boardwalk for people, and they can see ocean, gorgeous
ocean. And don’t go by this greed and stupidity. Thank you.
KUNEWA: My name is Lori Jean Kunewa, 75-6081 Ali‘i Drive -.
HOUSEL: If you could hold that a little closer and speak up a little bit. Thank you. Your name
and address, please.
KUNEWA: Lori Jean Kunewa, 75-6081 Ali‘i Drive, Kailua-Kona. I’m here to oppose the
development of this property. I got married on a surfboard in the middle of Hlualoa Bay about
two weeks ago. And my husband cannot be here today because he is working, as I’m sure many
people who oppose to this are. It was the most beautiful day of my life obviously because I got
married, but also because of the spiritual blessings that were bestowed upon us on that day in the
water, and that was witnessed by many of our family and friends who were there. I have a
picture that was taken I wish I had with me today, but it’s taken from the water; it pans all the
way up to the top of the mountain, and it’s mostly green and beautiful. And I’m asking you to
th
oppose this development, so that on my 25 wedding anniversary when I paddle out again with
my husband to celebrate and renew our vows, I can take another picture from out there and it
will look the same – it won’t have a 64-foot condominium complex in the way. So thank you for
your time. And again, I oppose this.
HOUSEL: Thank you. It looks like we have a couple more people: Roy Crytsar and Jeremy
Jaentsch. Could you use the microphone, please? Raise your right hand. Do you swear or
affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission?
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CRYTSAR: Before God, I do.
JAENTSCH: Yes.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Would you like to state your name and address?
JAENTSCH: My name is Jeremy Hawi‘i (phonetic) Jaentsch. My address, 74-5518 Kaiwi
Street, Suite A. And I would just like to voice my opposition to this development on Ali‘i Drive.
We’ve all heard the reasons – surfers are against it, Hawaiian kingdom, Hawaiians everywhere
against it, residents against it. It’s a beautiful beach. We need all we can get because as time
goes on, if there is any more places, they are going to build more developments all over this
island. And even though it’s a big island, it cancels for it – all the greed, like we said earlier.
But it’s all right because only the right is going to stand; if this is not right, it’s not going to
stand. So we don’t really have to worry because time is going to take care of it, and from the
sound of it, it’s not right. Thank you for your time. Aloha.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
CRYTSAR: Aloha ‘auinal. My name is Roy Crytsar. My address, P. O. Box 202, Hlualoa,
Hawai‘i 96725. Anything else I need?
HOUSEL: Yeah, would you like to give your testimony then?
CRYTSAR: I would. I’m definitely opposed to this project. I understand that when individuals
who purchased this property did so, it was because of the beauty of the area. Many people have
spoken about the view and all of that. I don’t – I came late, I’m sorry, I just finished work – I
don’t know how much has been said about the history of this area. On the other side of Hlualoa
Bay is an area known as Keolonhihi. Now, Mr. Kanuha back here certainly can give you much
more, better testimony about this area than myself, but I’ll do my best. Keolonhihi and the
property across the street, Kekealaniwahine, has been traced back 27 generations before
Kamehameha the Great. The reigning queen, Kekealani, was the only queen who was allowed
to order human sacrifices. This area was a training area for the young worriers to learn the
traditional Hawaiian art of lua, the marshal art. This was also the purificationary for the virgins
for the ali‘i. If you look at the point on the other side, Kamoa Point, you’ll notice a pile of rocks,
which was actually a grandstand or a viewing stand for the ali‘i. This was also an area for
growing medicinal herbs. My wife, when she was pregnant with our daughter, walked past one
of these areas, and had been suffering considerable pain, and instantly was healed. This is a
very, very important area for the Hawaiian people. Yeah, I’m haole, but I grew up in Hawai‘i.
My heart is brown. But it doesn’t matter – brown, white or red or what. I’m definitely opposed
to this area, and I thank you very much to oppose it. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to testify today? If you could have
a seat, please. Would you state your name and address, please? Oh, let me, hold off just a
minute, we’ve got another person that would like to -. Could you both please use the
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microphone, and raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter
now before the Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Could you state your name and address, and then give -?
KAVALIAUSKAS: Ursula Kavaliauskas, 78-216 Mkole‘ Street, voter, registered and
property owner. I think your job as the Commission is to hold the line. There are -.
HOUSEL: And your address, please.
KAVALIAUSKAS: Seven-eight-two-one-six Mkole‘ Street.
HOUSEL: Okay, thank you.
KAVALIAUSKAS: Did you get it that time?
HOUSEL: Yeah.
KAVALIAUSKAS: Okay. Can you all hear me? Your job is to hold the line. We have rules.
The reason things are on this Planning Commission’s agenda is because these people do not want
to follow the rules; they want special treatment. They are asking for you to waive some of the
rules, like the setbacks. You should not be coming to this meeting, saying that the developer has
just as much right as we have. He doesn’t. You are asking to trample our rights as neighbors, as
community members, as recreationists; you are asking us to waive our rights and not hold the
line for someone who wants special treatment. You should be coming to this meeting
automatically ready to say no. If you are not ready to say no, you should have a very good
reason. Is there a reason to give up our rights? Is there a reason, is there some benefit to the
community? Is there some benefit to you as individuals? I don’t see why we need to give up our
rights. And I don’t see this is a difficult situation. We have rules. Everybody follows them –
everybody except for people that come here asking for special treatment. It should not be
difficult for you. You should automatically say no unless you find some overriding
consideration that gives him the right to do something that the rest of us don’t have the right to
do. Thank you very much.
KAMAKA: I second, third, fourth everything she says.
HOUSEL: Could you state your name and address, please?
KAMAKA: Sandy Kamaka, 74-5113 Kealakaa Street, Kailua-Kona, Hawai‘i.
HOUSEL: And would you like to present your testimony?
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KAMAKA: Okay. First of all, I oppose to this building of this condominium. And, you know,
we go through this a lot in all this Commission; she is right, this meeting should not even
happen. But I’m, you know, you guys have got to bring up to the community, gives us chance to
bring out our voice, which the people do come here to give you their voice. So you’ve heard
their hearts. You’ve heard everything that they said. And most of all, when we go back to our
culture, that’s important. Keolonhihi, of course, is a big factor down here, playing a big part
and a role in taking, you know, the whole preservation of Hlualoa Bay, the whole Hlualoa
Bay. This whole, especially what Nani was saying, Kekealaniwahine complex, there’s so much
history here. Everything is worth millions to people, and greed, of course, is what everybody is
after – it’s for greed, greed, greed. But to me it looks like trash. If the ocean ever gets a hold of
it – I was born and raised down here on Ali‘i Drive – and also when the waves are humongous
down there, the wave reaches up there, the water splashes in that area where you guys want that
condo area right there. This place is for the Hawaiians, we find it as a place of refuge or place to
go back, you know, and relax. You see how many families coming down here. Now, with that
condominium right in that area – if I could stand up and walk over there – when the waves are
big – I can’t reach – okay, if the waves are big, there is an area that right in front of the
condominium where it’s so serene, you sit in that pond, and the wave hits that wall, that rocks
over there, and splashes into the pond; I wouldn’t want to be down there anymore knowing that
the condominium with how many peoples are behind me now. As is is as is. The person who
sold the property, you know, maybe now they regret selling their property and they, again, it
probably was sold for the best interest of the people, not to build a condominium. We have
enough already. And, you know, enough of the shoreline. This is our breath of fresh air right
here. We were born and raised here. We are here. The people are still here. They are speaking.
So it’s either build it and not listen to the people’s hearts or listen to the people’s hearts and don’t
build it. Mahalo.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
BEAN: Aloha mai. My name is Rolinda Bean, 74-312 Nuhi Place, Kailua-Kona, Hawai‘i.
Hawaiian proverb, “aloha aku, aloha mai” – “aloha aku” means to give love, “aloha mai” is to
receive love. As Hawaiian people we were shared this proverb because we are caretakers of this
land. But you don’t have to be Hawaiian to know that and to learn that. I’m half haole; my
father is from Oakland, California. He’s Hawaiian within his heart. But this message is so
strong. And we cannot stop development; we can only but slow it down. But we can stop
ignorance. How much more money do you need? In West Hawai‘i it’s said that the units, the
two-bedroom units will cost $1,250 to $2,000 a week; we as kama‘ina and residents here cannot
afford that. Who are they going to serve? We cannot afford that. We have to take care of each
other. Aloha aku, aloha mai – Give love, love will be received.Take care of the land. We know
that that’s our kuleana. Take care of the land because the land will take care of us. Take care of
one another because we here as residents here in Kona will take care of each other. And I share
this as an educator. I share this as a resident, as keiki o ka ‘ina. I travel all over the world, and I
take children from Kona traveling with me to Switzerland, Kuikilani, to Italy, Italia, to Japan, to
Aotearoa, to educate them about other cultures and to share our culture. I work for Keauhou
Beach Resort, and we just opened the Cultural Department there. The comments from our hotel
guests is, “This is what we were looking for, we come to Hawai‘i for this, this open air, this
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beautiful place to swim, this beautiful area to learn about the people of Hawai‘i, the culture.”
That is what we are here for. That is our kuleana. Aloha aku, aloha mai. And mahalo ke akua
for blessing us with that, because we know that when we live here, we cannot take all this wealth
with us to the next place. Mlama what you have – take care of what you have. Aloha and thank
you for letting me speak today. And mlama pono and mahalo ke akua.
HOUSEL: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to give testimony today?
Do we have a motion to close the public hearing? (Receiving advice from Counsel,) okay.
Public testimony hearing is now closed. I thought we needed a motion to do that.
GIFFIN: Mr. Chairman, in light of the fact that it appears as if everybody here has had a chance
to testify and, if I am not mistaken, I would like to close public testimony – so, I so move.
BEAUDET: Second.
HOUSEL: Second, Commissioner Beaudet. All in favor?
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
HOUSEL: Opposed? Okay, motion passed. Thank you. We are asking for a recess here. Do
you want five minutes or longer? Okay, we’ll take a five-minute recess. Thank you.
RECESSED The Chair called a recess at 12:18 p.m.
RECONVENED The meeting reconvened at 12:34 p.m.
HOUSEL: We are currently on the item agenda 5, SMA 10-41, so we are going to continue on
that one. We’ve got a few housekeeping items to take care of. Are all the parties present here?
Okay. Could the parties please make your appearances? If you’d like to -.
YEH: Yes, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Planning Commission, my name is Tom Yeh.
Sitting to my left is the applicant, Dr. Cory Foulk. And we are here ready to go. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
SELF: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. My name is Amy Self, Deputy Corporation Counsel, and
I represent the Planning Director, Bobby Jean Leithead Todd, who is to my right.
GHALAMFARSA: My name is Ali Ghalamfarsa. My address is 77-6306 Ali‘i Drive, Kailua-
Kona, Hawai‘i.
OLSON: Good morning, Mr. Chairperson - good afternoon now. Good afternoon, Commission.
Peter Olson on behalf of the Crumrine Family Trust with the trustee, Don Crumrine, here along
with his wife, Lucy, who is present.
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HOUSEL: Thank you. Is there anyone else that -?
YEH: Mr. Chairman, one of the things that we submitted recently was a request for continuance
on the contested case hearing in light of some anticipated input that was going to be coming from
the State Historic Preservation Division. The reason this application was submitted and at least
deemed complete now for the Commission to consider was that on January 26, 2010 – and it’s
part of the record – there was a letter from SHPD indicating that they had previously reviewed
the project and essentially determined that there was a no-significant-effect determination that
allowed this project to proceed forward. Since then, as the Commission may be aware, we have
received a letter, I think partially in response to the intervenor’s request for another review from
the same agency, from State Historic Preservation Division, requesting that an archaeological
inventory survey along with a cultural impact assessment be prepared for the Commission’s
consideration. To some extent, it’s not really the way these kinds of procedures usually flow,
because once you get a no-effect letter, you get to continue forward. At the same time, the
applicant is cognizant in trying to be sensitive to some of the concerns that have been raised by
SHPD. And so for that reason, what we did is we are still asking for a continuance of the
contested case hearing because we believe that in all fairness to all parties, even though we
believe that, from an archaeological inventory standpoint or a cultural impact assessment, that
the applicant can still move forward with its proposal, nevertheless, we should vet those issues
out and then come back to the Commission with that information.
Part of the concern, of course, in this is that it will involve some time issues. At the same time
having heard some of the responses from members of the public today, I think it might be a good
idea for everybody takes some breathing room to consider some of these issues and to the extent
that there is some common ground that can be reached with some of the interest that had been
expressed that we at least try to do that. And I’m not going to say that necessarily we’ll be able
to accomplish that, but at least try to understand some of those issues further. From real practical
standpoint, we’ve had some archaeological assessment going on already. It still does not yet
appear to be that there are going to be any significant finds that will result in any probation of the
development as opposed to data recovery; we’ll find that out once a report’s done. Once our
report’s done, which is probably going to take about a two to three-week period, it then gets
submitted to SHPD for its review. That’s where we may find some time delays because, as it’s
kind of commonly known, SHPD is understaffed for funding purposes. There are some other
issues. And typically, there is a 45-day response period once the AIS or archaeological
inventory survey is submitted. Whether SHPD is able to come back in that 45-day period is a
big question. We would certainly want them to do that as soon as possible and provide their
input. Similarly, on the cultural impact assessment side, that kind of study is not really
something that SHPD, even though it has requested it from a regulatory standpoint, is generally
involved in reviewing, but we do want to be able to provide it that opportunity. Undertaking that
study is kind of a complex set of factors that involves review of archival documents, interviews
with witnesses, understanding some of the cultural issues that are prevalent in that area, and then
putting that together. That itself will probably take more than the archaeological inventory
survey itself, and I’m estimating probably good two, three months perhaps on top of what SHPD
has asked for.
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I raise this not because we felt that it was absolutely necessary to do those things but because it’s
now been raised, and we do want to make sure that we do answer whatever questions or concerns
that have been raised, and try to address them as best as we can, and then bring that information
to this body and allow it to, you know, digest that, and if there are conditions that are
appropriate, adjust those as necessary. We did feel, though, however, that from the standpoint of
this property already been developed, or there is also a set of principles that, you know, Angel
Pilago had mentioned those, but part of the recognition even in the past case and the following
case, Ka Pa‘akai, was that when you deal with already developed property, there is a certain
balance between certain cultural rights and the owner’s -.
OLSON: Respectfully, Mr. Chairman, I would like to object to this. I don’t know where Mr.
Yeh is going in regard -. I think this is his argument. I think we are just trying to have
housekeeping matters here. We’ve agreed to stipulate to continue this hearing, I believe, they
can correct me if I’m wrong, provided that our witness, Junior Kanuha, would be allowed to
testify. And if we want to set a date, which he is trying to get to about how long it’s going to
take, we are amenable to that and we are agreeable to that, and that’s this inventory and this
assessment, was what we asked from the first place. And so I think we can cut to the chase and
set those dates, and then we can proceed with this hearing.
YEH: Yeah, I was only, and I apologize -.
HOUSEL: Okay. I’ll sustain that objection.
YEH: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
HOUSEL: Mr. Yeh, could I ask you a question?
YEH: Certainly.
HOUSEL: If there is a, you know, delay, with the additional assessment, you understand you
would waive any time limits to conclude this hearing?
YEH: Yes, I think that’s certainly fair.
HOUSEL: Okay. What time frame would you expect that this would take?
YEH: Well, if, one of the, we basically have two alternatives that I see is, one is to allow the
applicant to get the feedback from SHPD and then notify staff and indicate that we are now
ready to go, reschedule this; at the same time, you know, if we’re going to set some outside date,
that at least maybe we come back with a status report or something – I would say about a four-
month period would probably be the most appropriate. And the reason I say that is because it
would then put some limits on SHPD to be able to timely respond to what’s been submitted. So
that’s another suggestion.
HOUSEL: Okay. I’d like to ask each of the parties if you could respond to that.
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OLSON: That’s fine. If we set up a status conference or a status meeting, we are amenable to
that. And we appreciate, you know, other counsels’ professional courtesy and having our
witness testify today. That’s fine, so -.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Mr. Ghalamfarsa, would you respond to that?
GHALAMFARSA: I do -. I have no problem with continuance. The only problem that I have
is try to make these communications simple enough that the public like me – I’m not an attorney
– understands clearly. The main concerns that me as a neighbor, me as an architect, and I’m
going to also testify as a witness architect and qualify myself why what’s being proposed does
not comply at all. And I’m just afraid if these deferrals take place, all the community members
and the public cannot be allowed time to hear these major concerns that we all have, and not get
caught up with, you know, certain technicalities that I’m almost, I get lost in it also. So if I could
have a few minutes to state some of my concerns that the public can hear today, if that’s
appropriate at all.
HOUSEL: The question is if you are in agreement with the continuance.
GHALAMFARSA: Yes, I am.
HOUSEL: You are.
GHALAMFARSA: Yes, I am.
HOUSEL: Okay, that will -. Okay, thank you. And I’d like to ask the Planning Director.
SELF: Yes, we have no objection and we are in agreement with the continuance.
HOUSEL: Okay.
(LISTEN FROM HERE)
YEH: Mr. Chair, related to this continuance request, if we are able to accomplish our objective
of getting the comments back from SHPD in a timely manner, then what, you know, we set
something in four months, but if we can move something up earlier than that, we’ll notify the
staff about that. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Okay. We will, you know, deal with that. There are a few things that I do need to
take care of just to be sure we are clear about, just to make sure – I need to read this – at our
previous duly noticed public meeting on this matter, the Commission voted and decided to
conduct this contested case hearing as a whole – that’s the Rule 4-6 (d). There is a presiding
officer, the presiding officer means any commissioner or a hearings officer duly designated as
such, okay, unless otherwise designated the chairperson shall be the presiding officer. Are there
any objections to this arrangement from the parties?
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OLSON: Well, Mr. Chairman, I think we’ve made our previous objection memorialized in a
letter to you folks in regards to having a hearings officer appointed in this matter in regards to
what we perceive as a conflict of interest with the Corporation Counsel representing the
Commission as well as the Planning Department, and I believe we gave those reasons in that
letter. It’s our position that the Planning Department is a party to this. And they have taken a
position recommending that this permit go through, I mean that’s their position. So we’ve made
that objection and I just want to preserve it for the record.
HOUSEL: Right.
GONZALEZ: Okay, what the Chair is trying to do is make it easier for the parties to get matters
taken care of without having to reconvene the whole hearings officer, Commission as a whole.
The rules recognize him as the presiding officer; he is given the power and the authority to grant
continuances on his own, make certain determinations according to the rule. As to the
allegations of a conflict of interest, the Planning Commission is free to follow the
recommendations of the Director or not follow the recommendations of the Director. And along
the lines of the Office of the Corporation Counsel providing legal support to both, in this case, I
am assigned as the Planning Commission as my client; my interests are to ensure that they follow
the procedural matters for this hearing, and also that they conduct this hearing in a fair and
impartial manner for all the parties involved, including taking public testimony. I have not
spoken about this case with Ms. Self from my office – there is a Chinese wall within our office
on this matter. She is assigned to represent the interest of the Planning Director alone. So I
would declare for the record that as the advisor on the procedural matters for the Commission, I
do not see a conflict.
OLSON: Respectfully, we make that objection. We understand your position, and we don’t do
it lightly, just respectfully. Thank you.
GONZALEZ: No problem. Thank you. So as to the matter of the housekeeping things, we are
trying to make it easier for the parties to handle this kind of issues without the whole
Commission having to convene. So are there any objections from the parties that the Chair
assume the presiding officer roles, so he can take care of some of the administrative functions in
having this hearing.
YEH: I have no objections. Tom Yeh.
HOUSEL: Planning Director?
LEITHEAD TODD: I just wanted to make one note here, as I just double checked with staff:
We have two Commissioners whose terms expire in December. They can hold over for 90 days.
So there are some issues that we may -. If we are not able to conclude this matter before the end
of the year, then we are either going to have to have some holdovers, or when new
Commissioners are appointed, then they’ll have to be given the entire record to review before
they can weigh in on the matter.
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HOUSEL: Thank you. Mr. Ghalamfarsa, since you are representing yourself, do you have any
objections to the presiding officer handling this contested case?
GHALAMFARSA: I have no objection in this bit of moving things along.
HOUSEL: Okay. Commissioners, do you have comments? Okay, thank you. Now the – keep
going, get this done – the presiding officer controls the course of hearings, administers oaths,
rules on questions of evidence, holds appropriate conferences before and during hearings, rules
upon all objections or motions which do not involve a final determination of the proceeding,
receives offers of proof, fixes the time for the filing of briefs, disposes of any other matter that
normally and properly arises in the course of a hearing, and takes all other actions authorized by
law that are deemed necessary for the orderly and just conduct of a hearing. Are there any
objections to this arrangement from the parties?
OLSON: No, Mr. Chairman.
GHALAMFARSA: No objections.
YEH: No objections.
SELF: No objections.
HOUSEL: Thank you. The hearings officer means a person or persons duly designated,
authorized by the Commission to conduct proceedings on matters within the jurisdiction of the
Commission for the purposes of taking testimony and to report findings and recommendations to
the Commission. As stated previously, the Commission as a whole will be considered the
hearings officer for this matter. We’ll follow Rule 4. Parties may waive or amend procedures by
stipulation agreement. Once the hearing commences, the parties will be asked if they have any
agreements to waive or amend the procedures – so please be prepared. Parties have the right to
present testimony, cross-examine and present documentary exhibits. Strict Rules of Evidence do
not apply, Rule 4-7; so we don’t have Strict Rules of Evidence. Parties have the right to appeal
the decision to the courts – that’s Rule 4-27 and HRS 91-14. Are there any questions?
Now, we can return to the question of the continuance, now that we’ve gotten our housekeeping
done.
YEH: Mr. Chairman, Tom Yeh, again. You know, in light of the issue of the Commissioners’
tenure, you know, that does pose a real practical problem for us. And the Commissioners having
been on the site, having heard at least the testimony so far, it would obviously be our purpose to
have the same body and members that are sitting here today, determining the questions that are
before it. So I think it might be better to set like a three-month deadline and see where we go
from there. And hopefully, we can satisfy the informational requirements by then. And then
from there, you know, once either the status conference or the continued hearing is set, we set
some, perhaps some new intermediate deadlines for the submission of exhibits, because I suspect
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that there are going to be some additional exhibits that flow from some of these new
informational requirements, so -.
HOUSEL: Mr. Olson?
OLSON: With understanding that there would be a 90-day window after December, that gives
us about seven months. A status conference or some sort of deadline within three to four months
would be fine with us. But we’ll prefer to keep the same Commission members, have them
consider this matter.
HOUSEL: Okay. Mr. Ghalamfarsa?
GHALAMFARSA: Yes, I concur with the same, yes, thank you.
HOUSEL: Okay. And the Planning Director?
SELF: Yes, we agree with the three-month period.
GIFFIN: Mr. Chairman?
HOUSEL: Commissioner Giffin.
GIFFIN: I just have a question. Although I’ve sat in many contested case hearings where the
whole body was involved, I cannot remember; can we at any point during this period go into
executive session?
GONZALEZ: Yes.
HOUSEL: I believe we can.
GIFFIN: Good. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Commissioners, any other questions you have? Okay. Before we vote on the
continuance, are there any witnesses that you would like to present today?
OLSON: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I believe, by stipulation, Mr. Yeh and Ms. Self and Mr.
Ghalamfarsa have been gracious enough to allow our witness, Mr. Clement Junior Kanuha,
testify out of order. And we appreciate their professional courtesy. If we can get it started right
now, that would be fantastic.
HOUSEL: Okay. How long do you expect the testimony to last?
OLSON: Forty-five minutes to one hour at max. That’s direct.
HOUSEL: That’s direct?
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OLSON: Yeah.
HOUSEL: Okay. I think our Commissioners are starting to fade on us, so I think we entertain
hearing, you know, from your witness, if we can take a lunch break and then return. Would that
be acceptable?
OLSON: We can go shorter than that; I can do a half an hour or 15 minutes there, you know.
We want to put him up on the stand as soon as possible, given his current state of health. Yeah, I
can abbreviate it.
HOUSEL: Okay, let’s do that then.
OLSON: And with Mr. Chairperson’s permission, we are going to have Junior Kanuha’s son sit
next to him; he won’t be saying anything but just to sit next to him and support – Mr. Kanuha is
in ailing health -.
HOUSEL: Yeah, hold it a little closer, so we get it on record.
OLSON: With your permission, I’ll ask leave of the Commission for Junior’s son to sit next to
him – C. J. He won’t be speaking but sitting there to support his father. He is ailing, so -.
HOUSEL: Sure. Just for clarification, in taking this witness, are we stipulating that you are
waiving your right to make an opening statement, each of the parties?
OLSON: Yes, I believe so, Mr. Chairman.
HOUSEL: Okay.
YEH: I think we can follow that during the next time, and we’ll probably be issuing a pre-
hearing statement that kind of assists the Commission later on. So, yes, we waive for purposes
of today.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
OLSON: Would you want my witness sworn in, or -?
HOUSEL: Okay, would you raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on
this matter now before the Planning Commission?
C. KANUHA: I do.
HOUSEL: Sorry, let’s do that again, just so we get it on record. If you could hold the
microphone in front of you. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before
the Planning Commission?
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C. KANUHA: I do.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Could you state your name and address, please?
C. KANUHA: My name is Clement Keliipoaimoku Kanuha, Jr. I reside at 73-4387 Kalaoa
Street – actually, the name is Kalaoa Street. We seem to miss the names of all our areas there
because of a change in venues, I guess, through not only the land commission but everybody
else, you know. So let’s try to bring those names back where they belong, then we can continue
of knowing where we are at at this point.
OLSON: Thank you. May I proceed?
HOUSEL: Please proceed. Thank you.
OLSON: So you go by the name, Junior, right?
C. KANUHA: Yes.
OLSON: Okay, can I call you Junior?
C. KANUHA: Yeah, everybody calls me Junior.
OLSON: Okay -.
C. KANUHA: There is another guy – may I interrupt – there is another guy by the name of
Clement. One of these days, I’ll talk to him, because there are seven of them in my family.
OLSON: All right. Now, where are you from?
C. KANUHA: I was born right at Kona Hospital.
OLSON: So you were born and raised in Kona.
C. KANUHA: Born and raised in Kona, grew up right here at Hulihe‘e Palace in this ahupua‘a
over here.
OLSON: And where is your family from?
C. KANUHA: Right from Kailua-Kona.
OLSON: How long has your family been here?
C. KANUHA: All their lives.
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OLSON: How long? How far back in time?
C. KANUHA: We can go back to the 1200’s, if you want to.
OLSON: Okay. Now, do you have any brothers and sisters?
C. KANUHA: I have, there are six of us total siblings.
OLSON: Do you have any kids?
C. KANUHA: I have six boys.
OLSON: And one of them is sitting next to you right now.
C. KANUHA: This is my oldest, C. J. Kanuha – C. J., Clement Junior, because we always get
mixed up when somebody calls for Clement. So I have to ask, “Which one are you looking for,”
you know, and they look at me and sometimes they go, “What do you mean,” I says, “There are
seven Clements. Which one you want? Tell me.”
OLSON: Okay. Now, Junior, you are a native Hawaiian, right?
C. KANUHA: Yes, I am.
OLSON: I know this is a sensitive subject, but speaking the genealogies, your family genealogy
comes from the area -.
C. KANUHA: My family genealogy comes through Keawenui. Hale o Keawe was built by
Kanuha for his father’s father’s father.
OLSON: And where is Hale o Keawe?
C. KANUHA: Hnaunau.
OLSON: Hnaunau. The area, just where we had a site visit earlier this morning, by the site
commonly known as Lyman’s or Kamoa Point, does your genealogy come through there?
C. KANUHA: Yes.
OLSON: And which chiefly line do you come from?
C. KANUHA: Kekealaniwahine Keawenui.
OLSON: Okay. So, now, who was Kekealani?
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C. KANUHA: Kekealani was the highest chiefess, or the only chiefess in the Hawaiian
kingdom.
OLSON: And she was from Kona.
C. KANUHA: Yes, Kona area.
OLSON: Okay. Now, you have been a waterman, right?
C. KANUHA: I retired being a professional diver all my life. So I spent some time in the water.
OLSON: And that’s a native Hawaiian practice as well, right?
C. KANUHA: Exactly.
OLSON: Okay. And you paddle canoes, right?
C. KANUHA: I paddled all my life.
OLSON: And that’s a native Hawaiian practice as well, right?
C. KANUHA: Aye.
OLSON: And what club do you -?
C. KANUHA: Kai ‘Opua Canoe Club.
OLSON: And your grandfather was instrumental in the formation of that -.
C. KANUHA: One of the instrumental people of Kai ‘Opua Canoe Club and the song, “Kai
‘Opua.”
OLSON: And you used to surf, too, right?
C. KANUHA: I surfed there in Kamoa. In fact, if I can just go just a little bit on that. The only
surfer that was there in the ’60’s was a John Peacock and his boys from HPA; they used to come
down on the weekends and that’s the only people that were surfing. And I used to wonder all the
time, “What’s all these people on the side of the road looking at?” There was only one guy out
there, so -.
OLSON: All right. So surfing is a native Hawaiian practice as well, right?
C. KANUHA: Exactly.
OLSON: Okay. Now, you are a fisherman as well as, in addition to diver, right?
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C. KANUHA: Yes.
OLSON: And that’s a native Hawaiian practice as well, right?
C. KANUHA: Exactly.
OLSON: What types of marine life are in the area surrounding Kamoa Point and the area we
commonly call Banyan’s?
C. KANUHA: For those of you that don’t know Kona, and may I say this with respect, Kona
was named the Gold Coast for one reason, not because of the ‘ina; because when they used to
bring in the planes, the DC-3, Aloha and Hawaiian Airlines, the yellow tang, the l‘pala, what
we call that, this place was just full of it, I mean that’s why they called Kona the Gold Coast.
And eventually, through neglect by the State of Hawai‘i with their ruling and not enforcement,
we have lost it all. And we continue to lose that until we the people, and for and by, will step up
and say enough is enough.
OLSON: Okay, kala mai, maybe more specific: You’ve seen turtles in this area I spoke of just in
front of the property we visited today, right?
C. KANUHA: Yes.
OLSON: Have you seen any seals?
C. KANUHA: You know, the last seal was down at, right next to Gates there not too long ago.
OLSON: And that’s the beach just north of the property that we visited today.
C. KANUHA: Just north of the property, yeah.
OLSON: Okay. Obviously, you -. Have you seen any crabs along the shoreline there?
C. KANUHA: Crabs?
OLSON: Crabs, a‘ama crabs.
C. KANUHA: Oh, we eat there all the time.
OLSON: And ‘opihi?
C. KANUHA: ‘Opihi. And yesterday I had a treat by one of the testifiers who went and got me
some wana – ho, that was ‘ono, I tell you.
OLSON: All right. Is there any limu on the rocks in front of the property?
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C. KANUHA: You know, that’s a very touchy subject with the honus. And, yeah, I just come
into something that people can realize. I sit on the Western Fishery Council Advisory Program
in Honolulu. We make the decisions before it goes to the chair on how to preserve and protect
all these areas to sustain the fishery in these areas – the limu and the honus and everything else.
OLSON: Okay. Now, all these things I mentioned, so these are collected as a part of native
Hawaiian customary practice as well, right?
C. KANUHA: Oh, yes, it is.
OLSON: Okay. Now, you are familiar with the area known as Kamoa Point, right?
C. KANUHA: Aye.
OLSON: And you are familiar with the area known as Kekealaniwahine complex, right?
C. KANUHA: Aye.
OLSON: What is Kekealaniwahine complex?
C. KANUHA: Kekealaniwahine complex is a 23-acre medicinal and religious practice area.
OLSON: And this is the same Kekealani that you descend from?
C. KANUHA: Yes.
OLSON: So you are a lineal descendant of Kekealaniwahine?
C. KANUHA: And Keolonhihi, because that’s same families.
OLSON: And that’s, Keolonhihi now, that’s on Kamoa Point, right?
C. KANUHA: Aye.
OLSON: Okay. Now, what are the boundaries that you know of Kekealaniwahine complex?
C. KANUHA: The boundaries of Kekealani comes all the way over to Gates – they call it
Gates now – which is where the monk seal, I guess you asked, and there is a proposal for the new
rock wall extension.
OLSON: So, is it your understanding that, when you speak of Gates, you are talking about the
beach north of the property we visited today?
C. KANUHA: Yes.
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OLSON: So if you go makai of, or across the street, look out to sea, the property we visited
today, along with the Crumrines’ and Mr. Ghalamfarsa’s house are all part of the
Kekealaniwahine complex?
C. KANUHA: Exactly.
OLSON: Okay. Now, what is, could you describe in detail, or generally, what is Keolonhihi?
What is that?
C. KANUHA: Keolonhihi consists of five different complexes. For those of you that have
never been there, make it a point. I mean, when I first went in there nine years ago, taken there
by ke akua, it wasn’t me – woke me up in the morning and took me down there and told me to
get a flashlight and go in. And I’ve surfed there all my life not knowing what this place was
until I went in that morning. And for the past nine years, I’ve been there trying to mlama this
‘ina, trying to clear it up and trying to get educators and practitioners who has that authority job,
to take care of it. Because of my respect for the ‘ina itself, I’m there as the – what, they call it a
landscaper, huh, now – so that’s what I’m there for now. But somebody has to, one day,
somebody has to stand up. And it was through ke akua that I stood up, that brought this
community together to try and clean this place up. Because it’s very historical – that whole
complex all the way down to Keauhou is unbelievable what is there.
OLSON: In the past, in the ancient times, what was Keolonhihi used for?
C. KANUHA: Oh, it’s so many things. If you have to look at the complex and, I mean, there’s
practitioners out there, that they can go through this all day with you on different complexes.
OLSON: Could you give me a couple of examples?
C. KANUHA: Surfing complex. You’ve got a grandstand. You’ve got the washing of the
bones – the iwis. You’ve got a hale pe‘a where the women congregate for the gathering of the
genealogies; this is where they base everything to set the genealogies together, who is that purity
to make this happen.
OLSON: How significant is this Keolonhihi in relation to surfing as we know it?
C. KANUHA: As related to surfing?
OLSON: Yeah.
C. KANUHA: Well, I don’t think we can just look at surfing because there’s five different
complexes in there and you cannot dissect one from the other; you treat every one the same way.
OLSON: Would you say that it’s very significant to surfing?
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C. KANUHA: Oh yeah, yes.
OLSON: Okay. Now, would you say that Kekealaniwahine complex and Keolonhihi complex
are related?
C. KANUHA: Oh yeah.
OLSON: So, they are connected?
C. KANUHA: They are all same families.
OLSON: All right. Now, along Ali‘i Drive, to your knowledge, are you aware of any burials
being discovered during the construction of new roads and/or structures.
C. KANUHA: There’s iwis up on Lako Street, which was done by Mr. Haun and his associates.
There’s iwis right on Gates down on the sand.
OLSON: All right. What are iwi?
C. KANUHA: Iwis are the remains of our ancestors.
OLSON: How important are iwi in the Hawaiian culture?
C. KANUHA: Just like you – you are important to me. The iwi is very important to me. This is
where I came from. So how do we preserve and protect this? How do we continue to preserve
and protect this?
OLSON: Why did the Hawaiians hide iwi?
C. KANUHA: Hawaiians never hide iwi; Hawaiians will put it away to the right place where
they belong. Why hide for?
OLSON: Now, what kind of places that the Hawaiians hide the iwi in?
C. KANUHA: That’s a good question there. Let’s go to, let’s go to City of Refuge – that’s a
good one. A lot of the iwis was moved. They were up on the cliffs of Captain Cook – why?
You always have to ask yourself why do they go to these extremes and put them. Well, you
know, these were the royal people, these were the royal families, you need to preserve them, you
need to put them away where everything is going to be safe. The commoners, differently, they
did what they had to do. And, you know, mauka-makai, always what had to do, if mauka or
something, it interfered with makai – makai, mauka.
OLSON: So, a lot of times they put iwi in caves, right?
C. KANUHA: Yeah.
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OLSON: And the sand?
C. KANUHA: Sand, too.
OLSON: Okay. Now, how is the location of this property that we visited today, that we are here
for today, culturally and historically significant?
C. KANUHA: You know, ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, I tell you, if you guys get a
chance, get a boat and go around this island. Do it, then you’ll see how significant you are to
this ‘ina. I’m very fortunate that I grew up on the ocean. And I can go every island, tell you
what’s on the bottom of that ocean except Kaua‘i – I never went to Kaua‘i, too far for me – but
the rest of the islands, I can tell you every single rock, crevice, cave on every island because we
respected it, we used it as an icebox, I did this as a support of my family all my life.
OLSON: Okay. Now, would you say that this area, this property we were on today, along with
Keolonhihi, Kekealaniwahine complex in Hlualoa city, would you say that they are all
spiritually connected as well?
C. KANUHA: Definitely. If you -. That’s why I say, you know, we all seem to look at the ‘ina
from within and out. Go out on a boat and look at it from out in, and really see your ‘ina
because it changes your mentality – how much mana this ‘ina has. You know, we come from
all different aspects of life and religion but, you know what, it was always open to every single
one of you. But, you know, we need to continue that, what is here, is protecting all this ‘ina.
Whether you are Bill Gates or Paul Allen who lives right next door here, we still have to respect
this ‘ina, because it belongs to the cultural people.
OLSON: How will the building of a 16-unit, four-story condominium affect the historical,
cultural and spiritual integrity of the property we visited today, along with the surrounding
properties?
C. KANUHA: You know, I oppose this project totally because when I see Keolonhihi and I
look across the bay, it brings back everything that I’ve been looking for, because this whole west
side of Hawai‘i ne‘i, moku o Keawe, there’s more heiaus that a lot of you people don’t know
about. It’s covered and there’s only a few people that know about it. We’ve documented a lot of
it without the State knowing, and we have the documentation; it’s put away until it’s ready to
come out to preserve it and protect it. And now I drive down the road and I see all these
applications there, and I’m going, wow, these people don’t even know what’s here and their
applications are up already. I have not seen so much applications in my life than right now.
OLSON: Knowing what we know now today about Keolonhihi, Kekealaniwahine complex in
Hlualoa city, do you think these other developments and condos along Ali‘i Drive on the makai
side would be there today, had we known back then?
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C. KANUHA: You know, if you look at it and, you know – because I love history, I love the
history of Kona – a lot of it, 99.9 percent of all the history in Kona, and development was done
illegally. And I can prove it to you real easy, because you just go to the L.C. Awards and you
look at all of them. You know, how can the commission give the land to his wife when it’s -?
It’s not the right thing, because it was wrong all the way.
OLSON: Thank you. I’ve got no further questions for my witness.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Mr. Yeh, do you have questions of the witness?
YEH: I do. And, Junior, thank you for sharing that with us today. Are you aware that, you
know, for this particular application, there is a proposed access to the shoreline from Ali‘i Drive
that is being proposed?
C. KANUHA: You know, if you look at public access, the condo is the public access anyway; it
doesn’t belong there. The access was always given, the access was always there, but it was
stipulations that was put there by certain commissions, by certain rulings and laws, that
prohibited a lot of people from passing through. But more so, how do we preserve these areas,
you know? It’s like the trail that goes out to Kamoa Point. Kamoa Point is a very big 13-acre
parcel that. And if you understand the boundaries there and you understand where all the
complexes are, you know, it’s, again, respecting the area. And, you know, public access is
western that – that’s all western. I’m supposed to be over here, easy go throw net everyday.
Virginia Isbell puts one thing over here that stopped us from throwing net. Now, is that right?
No, it’s not right. So everybody asks me, “Uncle, can I throw net down Old Airport,” I go,
“Hey, go throw net,” because, you know, that’s their gathering rights. They are not over there to
abuse. Abuse – the abuse came from outside, and it continues to come from outside. You know,
the local people respect – total respect for the ‘ina, total respect for the fishery. But it’s all the
outside. And it was said here on this table today, what they call, greed. You know, we are never
satisfied with 50 cents; we always want the dollar and the dollar half, you know. And that’s sad
that we base all our lives only on one paper thing, certificate, you know, well, you know, we are
in the western world, this is what is here right now, so you know -.
YEH: Well, part of the history of landownership in Hawai‘i, it did change after the Mahele, and
I think you touched on it that, you know, after the Land Commission Awards were issued, then
the ownership, even before the overthrow of the kingdom, became kind of a new concept; but it
is still part of our history and part of our current, you know, current social situation today. But
the idea that I was trying to get at was that in order to allow people better access perhaps to the
ocean, even through this property, to be able to engage in some of the, you know, shoreline
activities that you spoke of, including limu gathering, ‘opihi picking and that kind of thing, at
least it wouldn’t prevent people from doing that kind of activity, and that’s what I was trying to
see if you understood that there was going to be access there.
C. KANUHA: You know, Mr. Yeh, why do we have to look at a narrow strip of land for me to
go down there to gather when I have the whole thing already?
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YEH: I understand but, traditionally, even when this property have been developed for some 50
years, there would still be permission asked to go through that property to get to the shoreline,
wouldn’t there be, under today’s traditions?
OLSON: Mr. Chair, I want to make objection to this line of question as argumentative. It’s also
beyond the scope of my direct examination. And the question was whether Mr. Kanuha had
personal knowledge of their proposal to have, you know, what they call public access to it, and
it’s got beyond that. So that’s my objection.
HOUSEL: Sustained.
YEH: Junior, to go surfing at Lyman’s, to enter into the water -. And when we talk about
surfing at Lyman’s is, surf break that’s at Lyman’s is towards the Kamoa Point side, correct?
C. KANUHA: It comes over.
YEH: Right. And most of the time the people enter, when they enter the water, they go on the
Kamoa Point side, not where the subject property is?
C. KANUHA: Let me make something clear. If you were to go to King Kam restaurant, would
you walk around this whole property to go to King Kam restaurant? You would find the easiest
way to get to King Kam restaurant.
YEH: Correct.
C. KANUHA: It’s only human, thinking that, you know -.
YEH: Right, but I’m just trying to make sure that -.
C. KANUHA: Yeah, but, see, see, the thing is that people don’t understand where the
boundaries are for the State of Hawai‘i park, which is Keolonhihi – nobody knows except a few
of us that is always there working and -. You know, there’s only four ahupua‘a that go three
miles out into the ocean – I don’t know if you are aware of that one – and Hlualoa 4 is one of
them. Go ahead.
YEH: And I apologize because I’m just trying to make sure or clarify that we understand where
surfing takes place in relation to this property and where people usually go in and out of the
water. And I think it’s on the Kamoa Point side, correct?
C. KANUHA: All over.
YEH: Okay, all right, and it depends on surf conditions.
C. KANUHA: Depends on how big the waves are.
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YEH: Right. But this project where it’s going to be is not going to interfere with getting in and
out of the water.
C. KANUHA: Well, you know, it’s, what the picture you see is not the picture that I see – that’s
how simple it is.
YEH: All right. You mentioned in response to Mr. Olson’s question that, I think the question he
asked you that was posed this way is, how did you understand or feel how a project of this nature
would affect the integrity of the area. And so my question is – we have, there are two dwellings
on the property now – is it really the nature, size and scope of the dwelling, or is it any
development at all on the property that you would have an objection to?
C. KANUHA: I would never want to see a condo there, ever, or ever on that side. If I could go
back in time and be the person to stop every development on beachfront, I would stop it, because
it’s not right. Why take away the beauty of Hawai‘i ne‘i by putting one $500,000, $600,000,
$700,000 home to block everybody else out? But more so, the beauty of the shoreline? Why do
you want to do that? Because you don’t see the same thing as I do; you see the dollar sign, you
see what you want to see as a job. But I don’t see that. You know, I came into this world
without money. I have no money. But you know what? I survive every single day with love.
And I can tell you, I can walk through this town and get invited to any place to have lunch, free,
because, why, because they see the same thing that I see. The openness, the preservation of -.
You know, we put so much rules down on this ‘ina and we don’t enforce it. And it’s a saddest
part of our lives that we just look at it as people voting for other people getting into office and
does not do jack shit for us. And we need to get on board to make it happen, so that we can
preserve and protect this. Not just build, no, haole, he like build, go up the mountain, go build,
plenty room in the lava fields. Look Kukio, look how beautiful that place is, huh? But still yet,
they have to put up with the same things as everybody else – people, cars, you know. I worked
at Kona Village when I was 17 years old when we used to fly in there and, you know, the history
down at Ka‘plehu is incredible, if you only look at it. But you have to look at it, because it’s
not the same picture you and I, my brother, see; it’s two different pictures, you know. And not
there to disrespect you on that, but to respect you on what I see, you know.
YEH: Thank you. I have no other questions.
HOUSEL: Thank you, Mr. Yeh. Mr. Ghalamfarsa, do you have questions?
GHALAMFARSA: I have no questions.
HOUSEL: Okay. Planning Director?
SELF: No questions.
HOUSEL: Would you like to redirect?
OLSON: No, Mr. Chairman.
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HOUSEL: Okay, thank you. Commissioners, do you have any questions or comments? So
excuse the witness, thank you very much. Did you have -?
C. KANUHA: May I just say one more thing?
HOUSEL: Please use the microphone.
C. KANUHA: I just want to introduce my son, C. J. Kanuha.
C. J. KANUHA: Aloha guys.
HOUSEL: Aloha.
YEH: Professional surfer, right?
C. KANUHA: Who in his goal and in his life, in the beginning of life, said this to the teachers at
Kealakehe: I want to become who I want to become. He is a professional surfer. He is now a
professional surfer, not by dollar sign, by goal that he shared. And today he’s sharing it with all
the kids down there, giving back what belongs to the kids. And if we all can continue to look at
that and look at the same picture, which is paradise, we can continue our lives by looking at it,
and we can go forward with each other, whether you are on the Commission or you are a lawyer
or your are an engineer. Because I’m with Cory all the time, fighting Cory all the time on a lot
of projects, and he knows me real well. But, you know, we’ve got to do what is right. And what
is right is not the condo, and I’m so sorry, it’s not right. Let us see the ocean, let us feel the
ocean, let us be part of the ocean, because when we turn around, we are part of the ‘ina that is
going on. And if we sustain the ‘ina, we’re going to sustain each other for the rest of our lives.
Again, mahalo nui, Chair and the rest of, to all of you, audience, thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you very much for your testimony. Commissioners, I’d like to ask for your
help. Mr. Olson has objected to the Chair being the presiding officer for this contested case, and
I’d like to see if we can make a determination, if we feel that’s appropriate or if we, which way
we’d like to go forward. So I’d appreciate any input you’d like to make, if indeed the Chair
should continue as the presiding officer or if we should consider a hearings officer.
BEAUDET: Question.
HOUSEL: Yeah.
BEAUDET: What is the objection, or why?
HOUSEL: Mr. Olson, would you care to explain?
OLSON: Thank you. We wrote to the Chairperson a letter in regards to a perceived conflict of
interest in which, it’s more based upon the objection I articulated to Mr. Gonzalez that the
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Corporation Counsel, the Hawai‘i County Corporation Counsel here represents the Planning
Department, Ms. Self is doing that, and Mr. Gonzalez is here representing the Commission. And
our objection to that is that there is a conflict of interest in that under the professional rules of
conduct we can raise that objection and ask that the office representing both these parties be
disqualified. Here the remedy would be that the hearings officer would cure that conflict of
interest, given that they be the ones in charge of this hearing. So there will be a separation
between the Commission and the hearings officer.
HOUSEL: Commissioner Giffin.
GIFFIN: Mr. Chairman, I think that Mr. Olson’s comments and the objection, both of them are
well taken; however, on the process of having the Chair in a contested case hearing where we
take on the contested case hearing in lieu of a hearings officer has been going on for years and
that precedent has been set. And so, although your comments are well taken, I object, and I
really would like to see us continue in this thing with Mr. Housel being the hearings officer on
our behalf.
OLSON: Thank you. And we respect you guys’ position on that. We just have to make the
objection for the record, and we respect it. Thank you.
IOKEPA: Mr. Chair?
HOUSEL: Mr. Iokepa.
IOKEPA: I concur with Commissioner Giffin.
HOUSEL: Commissioner Bowman, did you have a comment?
BOWMAN: I also concur. I think we all have our conscience and we have been duly put on this
commission to be open-minded, and I think our Chair is doing a very good job. Thank you.
HOUSEL: Thank you. Mr. Beaudet?
BEAUDET: I concur.
HOUSEL: Commissioner Hickcox?
HICKCOX: I have no question about integrity of our Chair.
HOUSEL: Thank you.
HICKCOX: Thank you.
NELSON: Concur. I just want to make one comment in my six months on the Commission.
And that is I’ve been very appreciative of our Corp. Counsel in terms of good counsel to you to
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be appropriate in your role as the Chair and following the rules and regulations that have been set
forth.
HOUSEL: Thank you, Commissioner Nelson. I think, Mr. Olson, in light of, you know, our
Commissioners’ expressions, I believe I have to overrule your objection.
OLSON: And that’s fine. And we don’t intend to, our intention was not to impinge upon the
integrity of the Commission; it’s just that we have to raise the objection when we see it and we
do it with all due respect, so -.
HOUSEL: Thank you very much. Are there any other pre-hearing matters that you’d like to
bring up today? Okay, then, Daryn -. (Chair had brief discussion with Mr. Gonzalez.) Mr.
Yeah, sorry to interrupt you.
YEH: Sorry.
HOUSEL: Could I ask you to restate what your proposal is for the continuance, so that the
Commissioners hear it clearly?
YEH: You know, my preference actually is to actually set the date for the contested case hearing
really three months from now, and try to, and we’ll do our darnedest to present the information
as necessary to flesh out the issues that have been raised by then. And we’ll certainly try to
accomplish that. So from a scheduling standpoint -.
HOUSEL: Daryn, when will that be in three months?
ARAI: It will be, roughly three months would be November 24, that will be Leeward.
HOUSEL: Okay. Is that acceptable to you, Mr. Yeh?
YEH: That’s the day before Thanksgiving? Sure.
ARAI: That will probably be a preferred date because the next Leeward after November 24
would be December 31; so I don’t think that would set well with many people.
HOUSEL: I agree. Well, Commissioner Iokepa, you won’t be able to be here?
IOKEPA: Yeah -.
YEH: And if, and I apologize for interrupting, but I think I would like to see us be able to come
back and actually finish things up, which may or may not be accomplishable, but given the
number of witnesses and kind of testimony and evidence involved, it may be good to try to set
two days already. I mean two days in a row might be more efficient. But I’m not sure if that’s
possible.
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OLSON: The two-days-in-a-row suggestion, I think, is a good one, so, if -. I know you guys are
taking time off your regular schedule, so -.
ARAI: So we are looking at November hearing date, November 24, two days in a row.
th
OLSON: In regards to the November 24, my client is going to be out of, unavailable. If we
ndth
could do that before or after the week of the 22 through the 26, so maybe between the week of
ththth
the 15 or the week of the 8 or the 29, we would request. They are going to be out of town
for, Mr. Crumrine’s son is getting married out of State.
HOUSEL: Okay, so that would be the following week?
ththth
OLSON: They are going to be gone between the 18 and the 25, the 26. So respectfully,
we’d ask they not be scheduled then.
HOUSEL: Mr. Ghalamfarsa, would that work for you?
GHALAMFARSA: It does. I’m really flexible.
HOUSEL: Okay. And Planning Director?
YEH: What day are we talking about again?
HOUSEL: I think we are talking the week following -.
YEH: Okay, November 29, then.
HOUSEL: Right.
LEITHEAD TODD: Which is on Monday.
th
IOKEPA: Mr. Chair, I will be gone out of State from the 15 to the first of December.
HOUSEL: Okay. And Commissioner Giffin, do you know what your schedule is?
thth
GIFFIN: I will be gone the week of November 20 through the 29.
HOUSEL: Are there any dates there, Daryn, that we could use?
th
ARAI: If November is very difficult – and my apologies – we could look at December 16,
which is the regular schedule, the Leeward. I apologize I got the dates mixed up, but it looks like
th
we could do something on December 16.
HOUSEL: Are there two days there that we could schedule?
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th
ARAI: I don’t see any conflict on the 15.
GONZALEZ: It’s a Council day.
ARAI: There will be a Council meeting, yeah.
thth
HOUSEL: So December 15 and 16?
th
YEH: Fifteenth and 16 works for me.
HOUSEL: Mr. Olson, would that work?
OLSON: It looks like it’s clear, so that’s fine with us.
thth
HOUSEL: Okay, December 15 and 16 clear? Okay. Mr. Ghalamfarsa?
GHALAMFARSA: It’s clear for me.
HOUSEL: That would work?
GHALAMFARSA: Yes, Mr. Chair, that would work.
HOUSEL: And Planning Director?
SELF: That works for the Planning Director, too.
HOUSEL: Okay. I guess, so we can have a motion to vote on the continuance. If somebody
can help us out and -. Maija or Daryn, could you help us be clear about this continuance?
th
COTTLE: I believe the motion is just to continue the contested case hearing to December 15
th
and 16 at the request of the applicant.
HOUSEL: Okay, good, thank you. Do we have a motion?
BOWMAN: I move, so move.
HOUSEL: Okay, moved by Commissioner Bowman.
NELSON: Second.
HOUSEL: Second, Commissioner Nelson. We can do a voice, all in favor?
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
HOUSEL: Opposed? Motion passes. Thank you very much.
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thth
OLSON: Mr. Chairperson, do we have the time of day for the 15 and the 16?
HOUSEL: Pardon?
OLSON: The time of day?
HOUSEL: Would you prefer an early start?
OLSON: Yes, if that’s okay with everybody else.
COTTLE: We usually start our Leeward meetings at 9:30.
HOUSEL: Nine-thirty?
OLSON: That’s fine, thank you.
GHALAMFARSA: That’s fine.
HOUSEL: Okay, thank you very much.
The discussion ended at 1:43 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Noriko Sauer, Secretary
Leeward Planning Commission
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