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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003-11-21 TCONTINENTAL PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI`I HEARING TRANSCRIPT NOVEMBER 21, 2003 A regularly advertised hearing on the applications of CONTINENTAL PACIFIC, LLC (SLU 03-006/REZ 03-014/SMA 03-009) was called to order at 9:07 a.m. in the County ` Building, Councilroom - Room 201, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Chairman Fred Galdones presiding. PRESENT:Fred GaldonesABSENT & EXCUSED: Francis Smith Earl Fujikawa Bill Graham Florence Kubota Jeffrey McCall Aurelio C. Mina, Jr. Hannah Springer Bill Thibadeau Patricia O'Toole, Esq., Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher J. Yuen, Planning Director Norman Hayashi, Staff Planner Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 20 people from the public in attendance. CONTINENTAL PACIFIC, LLC (SLU 03-006/REZ 03-014/SMA 03-009) a.Application for a State Land Use Boundary Amendment for 3.344 the Agricultural to the Urban District. b.Application for a Change of Zone for 12.640 acres of land from 20,000 square feet (ML-20), General Industrial Î 5 acres (MG-5a), Village Commercial Î 10,000 square feet (CV-10 to RS-20) and Agricultural 20-acre (A-20a) to Single Family Residential Î 20,000 square feet (RS-20) and ML-20 districts. c.Application for a Special Management Area (SMA) Use Permit to development of 11 lots, including portion of a roadway lot, and related improvements. The area involved includes the former Hilo Coast Processing Mill complex and surrounding former sugar cane lands at Pepe`ekeo, South Hilo, Hawai`i, TMK: 2-8-07:portions of 1 and 53. (Hawaiian words done through submittals or phonetically.) EXHIBIT A GALDONES:Commissioners, weÓll be starting with Agenda Item No. 1. Anybody from the public who wishes to testify on any of these agenda items, please sign up the form and submit it to our secretary so we can have you re speakers. Agenda Item No. 1, this is an Applicant, Continental Pacific, LLC. This is SLU 03-006/ REZ 03-014/SMA 03-009. This is a continued hearing on the following applications: a.Application for a State Land Use Boundary Amendment for 3.344 ac from the Agricultural to the Urban District; b.Application for a Change of Zone for 12.640 acres of land from L 20,000 square feet (ML-20), General Industrial Î 5 acres (MG-5a), Village Commercial Î 10,000 square feet (CV-10) and Agricultural 20-acre (A-20a) to Single Family Residential Î 20,000 square feet (RS-20) and ML-20 districts; c.Application for a Special Management Area (SMA) Use Permit to al development of an 11-lot subdivision, including portion of a roadway lot, and related improvements. Norman? HAYASHI:Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good morning, members of the th Planning Commission. The application was heard on October 17, at which time the Applicant requested that the hearing be continued to a subsequent meeting. We had rescheduled the meeting for today. th At the October 17 meeting, we also received a correspondence from Commissioner Kubota indicating that she was recusing herself from this hearing. th Since the hearing, October 17 hearing, we received some correspondences: First was a th correspondence from Stephen Lim, attorney for Continental Pacific, dated November 5 requesting that they amend Lot, this particular lot -. Basically what had happened was th when we went on a site inspection on October 17, they found out that the pins were, or the property was inaccurately surveyed. So theyÓre requesting that this particular area, which is proposed for an Agricultural to a State Land Use Urban District, as well as Agricultural 20-acre to ML-20 zoned district, be increased from 3.4 acres to 4.-plus acres. So they had requested that this portion of the hearing be continued as part of their correspondences, or correspondence. th We also received a letter dated November 14 from the Pepeekeo Community Association requesting, stating several of their concerns and requesting that this application be, again, continued. We also received correspondence from Senator Lorraine Inouye and Representative Dwight Takamine requesting that this hearing be continued in order to allow the residents in the area to iron out some of the concerns that they had with Continental Pacific. 2 And, finally, this morning we received a letter from Claudia Woodward-Rice; and itÓs st dated November 21 regarding this particular application. Are there any questions at this time? GALDONES:Commissioners, any question of Norman? If not, will th Applicant or the representative, please come forward? If thereÓs no member from the, no one representing the Applicant or the representative, then we have a list of people who have signed up to speak. We have a total of eleven. We have five chairs so I will call for five at a time. Could we have Tracey Wise, Corey Harden, Tom Anthony, Peter Ortiz and Thomas Gehweiler. Please step forward and take one of the chairs at the table here. We have one more chair. Tracey, Corey? Corey Harden here? If Corey is not here, Claudia Woodward-Rice. ROHR:Did someone call me? GALDONES:No. I have not called you yet, Ms. Rohr. ROHR:I thought I heard Claudia Rohr Rice. IÓm having a hard time hearing. HARDEN:IÓm Corey Harden. GALDONES:Oh, youÓre Corey? HARDEN:Yes. GALDONES:Okay. Could you please raise your right hands? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. GALDONES:Ms. Harden, you wish to go first? HARDEN:Yes. GALDONES:Okay, could you please state your name, your residence address, and you may begin your testimony. HARDEN:Okay. Corey Harden. I live in the Mountain View area. And IÓm glad to see that Continental Pacific has responded to concerns from the community by doing some planning for foot paths, and shoreline access, and night-time fishing. However, IÓm concerned about this coal ash pile. From reading the minutes it sounds like youÓre not planning to deal with the coal ash pile now. Yo 3 separately. However, you are dealing with public access points which are not totally part of the application but are relevant; and I think that the ash pile is just as relevant as the public access. I donÓt think the County should be encouraging development in that area until the coal ash pile problem is solved. As you know, this pile is 60- to 80,000 tons. From articles I heard in the Island Journal and Environment Hawaii, itÓs permitted only for 40,000 tons; and itÓs growing every day by 16- to 30 tons or more. ItÓs a lot of tons. The ash pile may have been contaminated with industrial chemicals in the past. Runoff from the pile is going into the ocean, which is in violation of the Hilo Coast Power Company discharge permit smother coral and bottom dwelling ocean creatures. The permit to store coal ash requires that the ash be removed, but very little of it has been removed. And the articles I read said that folks have been waiting on promises to recycle the ash for about five years now. And as time goes on it seems to be getting harder and harder to take responsibility for this ash pile. Hilo Coast Power Company refuse to talk to a reporter about Envi Agency fines for the ash pile. Hilo Coast Power Company is a subsidiary of C. Brewer. A reporter who tried to call Brewer Environmental Industries got a company called BEI Hawaii. They said they were no longer related to Brewer Environmental Industries and had no knowledge of the ash pile. Mauna Kea Agribusiness is another subsidiary of C. Brewer. It owns land under the ash pile but it is selling C. BrewerÓs land. Already proceeds from sale of the land may not be accessible to pay for problems. Continental Pacific says it owns the land under the ash but does not own the ash. Hawaiian Rainbow has a lease-to-purchase agreement on land which includes the ash pile, but it says it doesnÓt own the ash either. So everyone seems to be just running away from this ash pile. I think someone needs to take responsibility for it real soon before everyone disappears and the taxpayers are left holding the bag. Continental Pacific says the only way it could buy land in that area was to let the Hilo Coast Power Company keep dumping ash. So Continental Pacific di might be some problems with the pile. I donÓt think the County should encourage any further development in that area until the ash pile problem is solved. The County should require that a significant amount of ash be removed and a plan be in place for continued removal before it c SMA permit. This removal could be done by Continental Pacific o I think it needs to be dealt with. GALDONES:Commissioners, any question of Ms. Harden? Thank you, Ms. Harden. Tracey, could you please state your name, your residence address, and you may begin your testimony. 4 WISE:My name is Tracey Wise. My residence address is 28-2890 Kapehu Place. I first would like to, starting off that IÓll be kind of nervous. This the first th time that I did a testimony so please excuse me. I went to a m with the Pepeekeo Community when I first found out about the gated community that is planning to come around the Kulaimano Subdivision. And some of my concerns is that most of the population in the Kulaimano Subdivision is elderly in age and are on fixed incomes; and I know that based on the information that was provided, properties were sold in the range of $150- to $300,000, based on the acreage that was bought. And my main concern is, is that itÓs an assumption that the houses that are coming up is going to be expensive homes and this will raise the property tax for individuals that are already there. Within the last week, as I went to talk with the neighbors, some of my neighbors range from 65 to older, 93 years old, they didnÓt even know that this development was occurring around them and how it was going to affect them. At this meeting, Mr. Henderson, the younger Henderson, had said that shoreline access was going to be provided for the community. However, heÓs the developer and not the buyer of the parcel; and so thereÓs nothing, at this point, written in the agreement saying that the buyer is going to give a shoreline access. IÓm not sure if any one of you, at this point, has gone down to these gated areas, and itÓs not like how it used to be before. My grandparents have lived in this community all their life, theyÓre the Nueva family. We have gone down to the mill many of times to go fishing, to go ca something that weÓre going to do, be able to do. IÓm emotional about this because IÓve seen a lot of my neighbors lose their property because of plantations closing, property tax going up, mortgage going up; and these elderly people are intimidated to step into the banks to talk about things, intimidated to even show up here. I ask the Planning Commission to give an extension so that we can sit down with Continental Pacific and come up with a working alliance so that both parties can benefit from this development. ÒCause right now I believe that it is not reasonable, because itÓs not affordable housing for the people that live in this community who would like to return and for the people that are presently homeless on the Big Island. I donÓt see that much positives coming out of this right now. And I also urge th guys have to chance to make some appointments with these elderly people that have been there, that have moved in. They were the first people that moved into this community. And for them, 93 years old, to be worrying if theyÓre going to be able to pay for something -. This similar situation happened in Waipio Acres of Oahu when Mililani Town was being developed. I ask you guys to protect the people that are presently there now. Thank you. GALDONES:Thank you, Ms. Wise. Commissioners, any question of Ms. Wise? 5 Sir, please state your name, your residence address and you may begin your testimony. ORTIZ:My name is Peter Ortiz. IÓm from Kalaoa Mauka, Papaikou. I came to this meeting very, initially just out of clear blue sky. And my concern was the actions thatÓs being taken down by the mill for one. IÓve fished all my life, I love to hunt like many other people here. And my main concern about this development down there has a lot to do with the people thatÓs from the area. ThereÓs m family that IÓve talked to that has major concern about the access to the beach for fishing for one. And although you might not see them over here today, a lot of them are at work; and I donÓt think itÓd be a feasible, reason to tell your employer that youÓre going to come to a Planning Commission meeting over some access to the beach. So what IÓm saying is that my concern is with all this development happening down at the beach. And like the young lady said here, you know, this is more catered to a different market of people versus the local people, and not drawing no division there -. But also at the same time, you know, how do you go about rerouting activities of the community people that have been doing it for decades? A lot of people might just look at it as fishing, but for a lot of people fishing is just one option. ThereÓs tremendous reasons why a person would want to go down to the beach, access, especially a place where there arenÓt too much people around, whether itÓd be just to relieve yourself of stress or whatever. But what IÓm saying is when, you know, I live up Kalaoa Mauka; and ever since IÓve been there, IÓve seen gates and fences going up not only on makai side, mauka side as well. It eliminates me from going hunting, as well as m and there has got to be some kind of medium in there, you know. And IÓve heard, you know, different reasons why they want to fence up the area and whatnot, you know. And I donÓt think the burden should be on the public, meaning that if youÓre going to fence off and, you know, eliminate access on the roadways, what are you doing to the people? The people, where do they go? Not all people enjoy going down to town and going down to the mall and finding recreation there. You might think thereÓs only handful of people who go to the beach and want to go to the beach from time-to-tim So what IÓm saying is, itÓs a lot deeper than what you might think; and although the people might not be here representing themselves, thereÓs tremen gated beaches, as well as roadways thatÓs been blocked off and kept from the public; and, you know, I donÓt know the true objective here. You know, like IÓm very alien to a lot of these procedures here. And why I came down here is Òcause IÓm very concerned about this. And I just want to voice my opinion and let this Commission know that IÓm just one person of a whole bunch of people that has tremendous concerns about access to the beach for one; and, basically, thatÓs my, what I came here to ex GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Ortiz. Appreciate your making the time to be here. Commissioners, any questions of Mr. Ortiz? Commissioner Fujikawa? FUJIKAWA:I have a question of the Director. The testifier stated a concern of access to the beach, but we have been taking care of many of these access situations to 6 the beach. Now, how about the developer whoÓs handling any upland, can there can be an access to the upland for the hunters or public? YUEN:If thereÓs a rezoning, the County can put in public access to mountain areas as a condition of the rezoning. Usually for upland areas you wonÓt see it in an SMA permit. Now if they already have the zoning and they donÓt need any permits but theyÓre coming for a subdivision of six lots or more, the County Code says that the Planning Department at the subdivision stage is supposed to look for public access to the mountains if there is State-owned property that you might access. And I think that has only come up one time where we had a subdivision that was, where there was State property above that people might want to get access to. It does not call for us to have access to property thatÓs private that people donÓt have a right to go to once they pass through the subdivision anyway. So thatÓs how upland access is handled. FUJIKAWA:I understand. Thank you. GALDONES:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:IÓd like to ask a similar question, not quite similar but on the same topic to the Planning Director. First of all, we all did go and visit the site a month ago, and we walked around where the access points will be, and all of us got a good look at the land there and what the plans are. So we are kind of informed on that. I noticed on the access, there was one area as you recall, Chris, where the, it will be closed except under a maybe a key arrangement. But thereÓs an alternative access close by which is going to remain open so that itÓs slightly more mauka so the people can go down to the shore from there. And I was just wondering if thereÓs any issue here where I know the Hawaii law is something to the effect that if the road or trail or whatever has been used continuously without objection from the owner for so many years and all that, it sort of essentially assumes a public status. So I was wondering if this particular accessway that is going to be gated and closed, whether thatÓs a determination that the Planning Department makes and tries to look at whether, in fact, that has been used continuously for many years, or whether thatÓs up to individuals to press that case, or whether that really comes into play here. YUEN:Well, what youÓre talking about is prescriptive rights; and under some circumstances long-time public usage for more than 20 years making a private road become available for public use. We look at that, though, as a matter of thatÓs not a part of the County requirement. That would be for somebody to bring a private case for prescriptive rights. And itÓs tricky b for, if the landowner kept it open with the idea of letting the public go back-and-forth for recreational use, then the law does not make that prescriptive. If it is voluntary on the part of the landowner to, that theyÓre being a good guy to let people go use it, then they donÓt, the public doesnÓt get prescriptive rights and the landowner can shut it off later on. So itÓs not an easy call to make, and it depends on what the facts are of a particular situation. 7 GALDONES:Commissioner Springer? SPRINGER:IÓm looking at Condition 3 of the Special Management Area Use Permit, and that refers to a settlement agreement dated April 12 of the third paragraph in that document indicates that ÐWhen open public access to the shoreline will be between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m., seven days a week. Access for night fishing past 6 p.m. will be allowed pursuant to a permit registration sy County of Hawaii.Ñ And I just wanted to offer that to the testifiers as one place where public access is referred to; and that settlement agreement dated April 12, 2002 is between the County of Hawaii and Continental Pacific, LLC, for the Pepeekeo Makai Subdivision. So thank you. GALDONES:Commissioners, any further questions for Mr. Ortiz? If not, sir? State your name and your residence address, and you may begin yo GEHWEILER:My nameÓs Thomas Gehweiler and IÓm from Hakalau Mauka, Box 332, Hakalau, Hawaii. IÓve been here for 25 years and have Landing quite a bit with my family fishing and just enjoying it down there at the tide pools with our kids. My concerns are, I noticed all the subdivisions in Kona and everything they always give public access to top-edge corners where you have trails going to the beach with parking for the public up at the top end. Is there any way that this could be settled where the people have to put parking spaces down along the ocean and use the roads that are there, that have been there and people used them for their lives here, and able to park their car to carry the equipment and to go fishing? If you go down fishing overnight or even during the day, they have an extreme amount of packaging to carry to the beach and, you know, itÓs quite hard to hike down a lengthy trail, starts raining on you, you have to come back with the kids running, get soaking wet. I just donÓt see why these people canÓt be able to have parking for the public down along the beach at several locations instead of one location where you have to walk several miles along the coast to go to these places that we used to go to. And they were speaking how the locals used to be down there. ThatÓs why I really enjoy moving here when we moved here, the local people down there camping, the families having fun. YouÓre taking away, man, youÓre taking it all away. ThatÓs what everybody came to t the aloha. You know, IÓm a haole, man, and I got raised here by a couple of local families, man, and I really love the aina here. And whatÓs happ cry, man. ItÓs really sad. You can grin or whatever you want, man, but, God save this place, man. It isnÓt worth the buck. Just let us go down and enjoy ourselves here again, man, the way it used to be. You know, youÓre just letting these guys come in and take over everything. Hakalau Gulch is a good example. They have every right to close these places off but people have been driving down to these places. The cane company was a good land steward, at least they let people go to these places and enjoy themselves. Now you got all these rich people moving in here, just taking over; and itÓs sad, man. LetÓs put a fence and weÓre Ag, man. You know, I donÓt understand it. Open some roads, let and park by the beach again. God, I want to take my grandchildren down there and enjoy 8 the tide pools. IÓm never going to be able to do that again. You know, IÓm crying at night already, man, wondering what the hell happened here. ItÓs really sad. And another question I had is, are you required to have County roads next to each lot here? How can you subdivide without having County roads going d I thought there was a law that you had to have access to a County easement or something for subdividing properties here on this island. Everywhere you go thereÓs a gate. You know, IÓm sorry, man, I just, you know, itÓs sad that people like him canÓt go down and go fishing. They took away the mountain, too. You canÓt even g anymore. CanÓt go anywhere anymore, hardly. And if you do able to go there, you have to hike in and, God, by the time you get there youÓre tired and you donÓt even want to do anything anymore. ThatÓs all IÓve got to say. IÓm sorry I just wish you people would try to make these people put parking at least by the beach in several locations, not one. I used to like fishing on the far side of Pepeekeo towards Honomu. I go to the access they got now, I have to walk several miles to get over there. ThatÓs crazy, man. ThereÓs roads down there everywhere. I said it to Dwight Takamine when we were putting our waterline in Hakalau, ÐYour next big problem is roads, and donÓt close them off. Leave all these roads be thoroughfares for this island.Ñ And they never did. They gave easement back to the owners; and it has created a big mess, man. You guys really have to start thinking about this. IÓve heard people where they used to go opihi picking and take their ropes and have to go through peopleÓs yards, and they come out and bitch at them about it, man. They donÓt have any right to bitch at us if we want to go down there, none at all; and they are, you know. Get out of my property, man. What are you talking about, man, weÓre going down and go pound opihi. You know, I canÓt even do that no more. ItÓs just getting ridiculous. You know, save this place for the local people, man. ItÓs the island of Hawaii, man and I work plantation, and poison gang say, hey, haole, lucky yo the Big Island of Hawaii is Hawaii. And leave it that way, man. Get these people to open up. They got so much money, read in the paper theyÓre going to make five times their amount of money in their pocket, profit. Whoa, wow, man, thatÓs neat. My kids have to move to the mainland. She married a local boy, they have to go the mainland. TheyÓre in Waikoloa suffering, low housing, income housing; and itÓs even outrageous. Now theyÓre thinking about going to the mainland. They canÓt even afford a place here. Please try to put access closer to the beach for people to enjoy it, man, thatÓs all I came here for. I really appreciate if you people would really try to push laws. You know, just like this man said, thereÓs a lot of people. You know, I went by here, everybody watching the waves at Hilo Bay, man, all my friends that go down fishing down at Pepeekeo. Hey, man, come on down, the meeting here, come on, at appearance, Òcause if you got a couple of thousand people standing here, you guys would have to reject this proposal, man. But everybody has things to do, they canÓt come here 9 oÓclock in the morning. You always put it where people canÓt come and do anything 9 about it. Please, just give us access to the beaches again, man, thatÓs all Hawaii, itÓs their land. Jamaica, man, they said Jamaica, any of you Jamaican? You can g island in Jamaica because you are a Jamaican. It isnÓt true for a Hawaiian, man. The Hawaiian canÓt go anywhere around here. ItÓs their land. Thank you. GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Gehweiler. Commissioners, any questions of Mr. Gehweiler? Mr. Gehweiler, the representative of the Applicant is here. Later on, after all the testimonies are done with, then he will be called upon, and perhaps he will be able to address the concern that you have raised. Sir, could you please state your name, your residence address and you may begin your testimony. ANTHONY:What was the last thing you said? I didnÓt catch the last part of your statement. GALDONES:State your name, your residence address and then you can start your testimony. ANTHONY:Oh, thank you. My name is Tom Anthony. My primary resi is in Leleiwi, but I maintain a house and farm in Kalaoa. IÓm here as the spokesperson for the Hawaiian Kingdom Tribe Union Council. WeÓre especially Ms. Springer read earlier, which is that Continental Pacific must allow shoreline access daily between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m., along with use of the Pepeekeo Mill Road, Old Railroad Road, and the stream, and whatever; and night-time fishing would require a County- issued permit. Lim said plans are in the works to authorize the Pepeekeo Community Association to issue after-hour permits. I donÓt know if itÓs the proper time but we will be asking for a contested case hearing, if one is available. Otherwise, weÓll take it to the court. We are disturbed about this because we recognize the authority g Community Association to issue permits as a condemnation of Native Tenant Rights and Access; and the limited access to the shoreline as also a condemnation of those very same rights. I would like to remind this Council of the PASH case, and that is the Public Access Shoreline Hawaii versus this Commission, and remind them recognize these rights; and we are here to assert all of these rights. The time when Kanaka Mauoli rolled over for this Commission has long since passed. Be aware, we are not going to roll over on this or any other condemnation that this Commission, or the County Council, or the State, or the United States of America proposes for Americans coming here destroying our aina, our rights and everything else that they think that they can get from this Commission. So if this is the proper time, I am requesting a contested case hearing; and weÓll take it from there. Thank you. 10 GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Anthony. ANTHONY:You have questions? Excuse me, are there any questions? OÓTOOLE:No, I just wanted to inform you that under the Commissio that a request for a contested case is supposed to be made seven CommissionÓs first meeting on the matter. ANTHONY:Well, we can take it to the courts if you want. IÓm unfamiliar with the Commission rules. I donÓt believe that this was properly, any notice was given to Native Tenants about this meeting and the condemnation of their rights. So as far as IÓm concerned, none of these hearings over here had sufficient notice to the Native Tenants about the condemnation of their rights. So put a notice in the paper, and weÓll make proper application at that time. Are there any other questions? GALDONES:Commissioners? Thank you, Mr. Anthony. You may be excused. Thank you. I would like to call upon the individuals who have signed up to testify. Claudia Woodward-Rice, Harvey Keliikoa, Elizabeth Logsdon, Kihei Soli Niheu and Claudia Rohr. Could you please raise your right hands, all of you, please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. GALDONES:Okay. Sir, we will begin with you. Please speak into state your name, your residence address and you may begin your t NIHEU:I thought we were going to follow protocol; and it falls in my custom that beauty before age. So if the ladies would allow me to be first, then IÓll be more than happy to start this dog and pony show going. ItÓs all right? GALDONES:Yes. NIHEU:Ohanalei welu kiheaka aheloa. Mai puu kapu mai moku o keawe. For the record, my address is P.O. Box 6575 and I live in the ahupuaa of Puukapu. Commissioner Hannah Springer, aloha mai. My name is Kihei Soli Niheu. I represent the Nuclear Free and Independent Pacific. I sit on the executive board representing Region 6, which encompasses Rapanui and Kapa Aina O Hawaii Nei. We have eight regions throughout this world and our main office is in Suva, Fuji. And since 1975, our purpose and our mission is to restore the rights of indigenous people within their homeland, whether they be in Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia, Philippines, French- occupied Polynesia, Kanaki or New Hebrides. And what we are doing is, right now one of our five-star campaigns is to initiate the process to have Hawaii reinstated or 11 re-inscribed on the list of 24, that is the decolonization, and that we feel that the process taken by the United States of America was not following the rules for U.N. in allowing the citizens and subjects of the Kingdom of Hawaii to once again restore their nation. In regards to this particular subject matter, we feel that before anything is done we must ensure that title belongs to the rightful owner. And my understanding is that in the process of determining title, the rules of the defacto government doesnÓt go back far enough to allow or to find out who the real owners are. So we are concerned in the process of determining who are the real owners of any kinds of requests for development. Second, we are really concerned with the concept of independence out agricultural lands for the purpose of residential lands to allow people who are not from the area to occupy that area, it creates a situation where instead of becoming more independent we become more dependent. And when we become more dependent we depend upon, for example, the shipping companies; and as you wel vulnerable to the shipping process where one company or two companies have a monopoly and they can raise the prices whenever they want to. Thus, once again, itÓs making the true tenants of this islands more dependent rather than independent, much less making those people who care for our islands more dependent than independent. And last, but not least, IÓd like to address the issue of Native Tenants Rights. On every deed, thereÓs a little thing there called the Rights of Native Tenants. And itÓs all then, in the past Native Tenants were never notified with enough time to present their case, much less exercise their rights. But things, as we all well know, is different. In the example of recent times down at, by Honaunau and, of course, Hokulia, the Rights of Native Tenants supersedes the rights of everybody, not even the King of Old who abolished the Rights of Native Tenants. Not even the government or the Kingdom of Hawaii could not abolish the Rights of Native Tenants. So based upon those kinds of concepts, we believe that not even the County, not even the State of Hawaii, nor the government of the United States of America has that right to abolish the Rights of Native Tenants without due process. So, in closing, we are working on right now, working with various groups to ensure, first of all, the Rights of Native Tenants are observed and that people of that particular area do have a right to decide and have a right to continue their lifestyle of which has been in existence from time in memorial. Thank you. GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Niihau. NIHEU:Wait, itÓs not Niihau. Nihau is the island or visiting from. ItÓs Niheu. GALDONES:Excuse me. Niheu. NIHEU:Thank you. 12 GALDONES:Thank you for the correction. Are there any questions, Commissioners? None? Thank you. SPRINGER:Mr. Chairman? GALDONES:Oh, Commissioner Springer. SPRINGER:Mr. Niheu, hene no kau. I have a question. Are you differentiating the Rights of Native Tenants from the rights of the public in general? NIHEU:Well, first of all, on every title deed is subject to the Rights of Native Tenants. But as a Kanaka Maoli I can understand those people who are from the area. And what area is good for the Native Tenants IÓm sure wou people of that area, Òcause we are, like anything else, we always share the aloha for those people who have a feeling for our islands and its history. SPRINGER:Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. GALDONES:MaÓam, please state your name, your residence address a may begin your testimony. WOODWARD- RICE:Good morning, my name is Claudia Woodward-Rice. I live in Honomu. My address is P.O. Box 186. I submitted a letter this repeat whatÓs in there, and many of the other speakers have addressed those issues as well. I want to emphasize one concern that IÓve had for a number of years, and I mentioned it in the letter as well. The Department of Water Supply has been planning a new Honomu well; and I believe the total cost will be over $2 million. Now Honomu is a town. According to the last census, it has about 500 people. The Department of Water Supply doesnÓt have the money to put in wells or water for people in Ocean View and they have thousands of people. IÓm concerned about back-door subsidies. Okay, IÓm not saying that this well is one of them. But the way itÓs paralleled, the C. Brewer putting their property on the market has made me suspicious. IÓm also concerned because Honomu is an example of a one-way in, community. And there are lots of other areas, where when the old cane roads that provided alternate ways for people to get in when we have a lot of landslides down on the highway, when those roads have been closed off weÓre stuck. WeÓre either stuck on the highways, stuck in town or stuck at home and canÓt get out. And this is a public safety problem, and the cost eventually to the County is going to be substantial. At our Village Association meeting recently, we asked our Councilman Fred Holshuh about paving a road that goes over the -. We have a unique situation in Honomu. We have a two-lane bridge for a one-lane road. When that road, once it goes over the two-lane bridge, pretty well stops and goes into gravel and, again, private and gated roads. 13 Now the County, I believe, has title to one of those roads but it wonÓt pave it so that it would be an access route for us. ThereÓs another road up the, whatÓs it called, two-mile road? But at any rate, there are other old cane roads that used to carry plenty of traffic for local people that are deteriorating; and eventually the County is going to be asked to pay the millions of dollars that it would take to pave them and provide access to the folks youÓre getting ready to allow to build there. But I donÓt think youÓre asking the developers to help pay the cost for this infrastructure thatÓs going to be required. And IÓm not in favor of development in the first place. But if it happens, they have to pay their share of the infrastructure and they have to make sure itÓs there, and that weÓre not just squeezed more and more and more. The other thing that has occurred to me is weÓre really the tip of the iceberg, the people that are here today. ThereÓs a lot of concern in the community, and we are coming up on an election year. So I donÓt think that the things that have been discussed as things the community might ask for to, as a sort of as reparations for the damage thatÓs getting ready to be done to these existing communities is even remotely really threatening the life, and the history, and the integrity of a whole district of this island. And so above and beyond all the legal questions, you need to consider that. Thank you very much. GALDONES:Thank you, Ms. Rice. Commissioners, any questions of Ms. Rice? Thank you, maÓam. State your name, your residence address, and testimony. LOGSDON:My name is Elizabeth Logsdon and I live in Honomu on Puako Street. Good morning. I would just like to say ditto to everyone that spoke before me. And my concerns about whatÓs going on in our area are, as the man from Hakalau said, real and true access. Until last September, a year ago, I was walking on canes and crutches and thereÓs no way that I could go to Hakalau beach anymore because they have the gate and I couldnÓt walk. Now I can walk and arenÓt I lucky. But what about the senior citizens and all the others? So by real and true access, I mean where people can actually drive to the beach where they used to park before. And my other concern is real and true use of the ag land for actual agricultural purposes, not just big houses. I mean, how lovely it would be to have 20 fabulous house. But once we donÓt have agricultural land we donÓt have places to grow food; and this coast has soil that is deep and wonderful for growing. Obviously, sugar cane has been grown here forever. So thatÓs a very big concern of mine. And the other concern is affordable ag land for real farmers that will actually farm the land and raise families and sell their products. ThereÓs a lot of agricultural development going on with diversified ag and people are coming up with all kinds of marvelous crops that small farmers can grow, although they usually take about 20 people canÓt afford to buy the land to grow the crops, then itÓs silly. I know someone that lives in an agricultural subdivision on Maui. They have a 2-1/2 acre lot in this agricultural subdivision. When they purchased their home in 1989, it was $435,000. 14 That home on this agricultural lot in Maui just sold for almost how many farmers could afford to spend a million dollars unless youÓre growing heroin or marijuana or something on your land, you know? So my concern is that this new development in our area has, theyÓve gotten this land for pennies on the dollar and theyÓre selling it for maximum amounts of money. And theyÓre not really marketing it to farmers and local people, itÓs all been marketed on the mainland. I have a friend that went down to the, in the Pepeekeo area and was looking for land and she met with someone, I donÓt know who it was, allegedly the owner of the land so maybe, but I donÓt know the personÓs name; and when she parcel of land was and he told her, and her jaw dropped to the ground. He said, ÐOh, I have many people on the mainland willing to pay that kind of mon So, you see, itÓs not being marketed to people that live and work here, itÓs being marketed to people to come here. And I have nothing, no problem with people coming here if they come to be a part of what we are in Hawaii, and not to bring Los Angeles, or New York, or something here. Here, we are Hawaii. WeÓre not about shopping malls and weÓre not about big fancy houses. WeÓre about families and being a part o in growing up on our island, you know, fishing and swimming and hiking and hunting; and those things are being taken away. Another concern I have is that the people came here and bought all this C. Brewer land. I was at a meeting in Papaikou and a man said to me, ÐThereÓs all you people have not done anything with it,Ñ as if we were fools for not having developed the land ourselves. There just has recently been made available to the public; and in that time that it became made available, it was snapped up by all of corporations with very deep pockets, which we donÓt have. So IÓm learning how not to hit people, so I didnÓt punch him for saying that to me. But I really felt like it, because I felt it was an insult to me as a person that lives here and an insult to all of the people around here who have not had a chance to purchase the land. And the other thing is that a lot of these people came and theyÓre telling us whatÓs going to happen with the land. Now, granted, I realize itÓs their private property now and they own it. But theyÓve come into a community where we have had a c We did this from Hilo to Waipio Valley. We have a document with testimony from residents from the whole coast. Nobody has asked to see for the land. Nobody has come to the Honomu Village Association and said, ÐWeÓre planning a subdivision. How can we work with you? How c what goes on in your community?Ñ They just are coming and telling us what theyÓre going to do, and that I donÓt think is fair. If they want to be a part of our community, come talk to us, meet with the people that grew up there, meet with the community. And letÓs try to do something together, instead of just like, this is how itÓs going to be because maybe we have a better idea. And itÓs just a lot of people are moving into the area, they are insulting our ways here; and I just, IÓm a little on the defensive, I admit, because I was born and raised on Oahu and I saw what happened there; and IÓve been to Maui and IÓve seen what happened there. I mean, the roads are so clogged and the houses and the development; and we have an opportunity to take all of this beautiful agricultural land 15 and do something wonderful with it. We have the opportunity right now while itÓs empty before it becomes these massive gated communities to make it be and a part of what goes on here. And thatÓs all IÓm asking, is that we would take this opportunity to do the right thing, and not just the profitable thing. Thank you very much. GALDONES:Thank you, Ms. Logsdon. Commissioners, any questions o Ms. Logsdon? Commissioner Springer? SPRINGER:Thank you. Could you cite the title of that document that you referred to and when it was prepared? LOGSDON:Which? Oh -. SPRINGER:The strategic plan? LOGSDON:I can get you that information. We did it in 2001. Hil Community Development Corporation was the author of it, HHCDC, Hilo-Hamakua Community Development Corporation; and we can get a copy for everyone if theyÓd like to see it. SPRINGER:Thank you. GALDONES:Any further questions? If not, Ms. Rohr? Please state your name, your residence address and you may begin your testimony. ROHR:My name is Claudia Rohr and I live at 369 Nene Street, Hilo. I have just a couple of items to share with you to help your understanding of what weÓre talking about. But, first, IÓm afraid I have to address an issue that I didnÓt realize I had to bring up again. Commissioner Kubota, I thought you excused yourself from this hearing. I didnÓt realize I had to bring it up on each and every meeting or hearing. I have written to the Commission -. GALDONES:Ms. Rohr, hold on. IÓd like to resolve that issue first. KUBOTA:Thank you. Would you please inform her. GALDONES:Yes. Ms. OÓToole, Ms. Kubota had recused herself from decision-making, but IÓm not so sure if she was also recused from the discussion and the deliberation. ROHR:May I please say IÓm hard of hearing and will everybody speak clearly into the microphone and donÓt speak too quickly. Thank you. KUBOTA:Mr. Chair? I speak loudly and clearly so may I tell her what my intentions are? 16 GALDONES:I would like to first to have it cleared by our counsel of what is proper. KUBOTA:All right. Fine. OÓTOOLE:Well, I believe that, I assumed she was just sitting there and not going to participate, or question anyone, or vote. So I believe that she has recused herself from all the proceedings. GALDONES:Ms. Kubota? KUBOTA:Yes. ItÓs clear on the record that I recused myself and recusal means that I shall not participate in deliberation or -. ROHR:Accepted -. KUBOTA:Asking questions -. Excuse me, I have the floor. KUBOTA:Your explanation is accepted. GALDONES:Ms. Rohr? KUBOTA:Excuse me. GALDONES:May I have some order, Ms. Rohr? ROHR:Okay. GALDONES:Ms. Kubota has the floor. You may have your chance to speak. I will allow Ms. Kubota to speak now. ROHR:IÓd like to just dismiss my comment and -. GALDONES:Hold on. Excuse me, Ms. Rohr. You will have your chan speak. ROHR:Okay. GALDONES:Okay. Ms. Kubota, IÓm sorry. KUBOTA:Thank you, Mr. Chair. I recused myself because of the reasons stated in the previous meeting. Although I felt it was against my wishes to do so, I did so because I did not to create atmosphere of impropriety that some people would imagine it to be. So, therefore, when I recused myself, my understanding is, and correct me if IÓm wrong, that I can sit here, not deliberate, not take part in the voting, but I can listen to all of the discussion. I can sit here or there, but this happens to be my seat. But if you prefer 17 that I sit in the audience, I shall do so. And it has been very, very difficult for me not to speak today, but I have kept my silence. GALDONES:Ms. Rohr? ROHR:IÓm sorry that you have to feel that you have to go on at length about this. I feel just as strongly that this was a serious breach. And I do appreciate the fact that you recused yourself; and I would appreciate it if we could keep this down to a minimum. I think youÓve had quite a bit of chance to say how unfair you feel this is, so I would like a chance to say why in more detail IÓve asked you to step aside. I believe your son, Peter Kubota, was required by the standard practice of his profession, which is the legal profession, to write to the Commission, Planning Commission, and notify them that he has participated in this subdivision from the beginning. He was the one, I believe, who suggested to the developer that he use all the camp lots as legal lots of record. Maybe Mr. Yuen could tell us. I believe that the Planning Department is well aware that he was part of all the earlier discussions concerning use of these numerous camp sites as legal lots of record; and thatÓs the very basis from which this subdivision sprung. Is that correct? GALDONES:Ms. Rohr, before Director Yuen addresses the question that you have, the Chair would make a ruling in your request. ROHR:Okay. GALDONES:It is true what Ms. Kubota has stated that wherever she sits in this room, that would be her pleasure; and she has, the chair that sheÓs sitting in right now, thatÓs the chair that has been assigned to her. As far as IÓm concerned, she has recused herself from the deliberations and the participation and the discussions. So she has complied with that recusal. But just so that there is no appearance of any conflict here, just so that we can get on with the discussions, I would ask Ms. Kubota if she could excuse herself from sitting in the chair. She may join the audience and sit out in the audience so that at least thereÓs no taint or some kind of an appearance of some impropriety. And I would appreciate that, Ms. Kubota. KUBOTA:I will comply by your wishes -. GALDONES:Thank you. KUBOTA:Just so that we can proceed. GALDONES:IÓd appreciate it. Thank you. Ms. Rohr? ROHR:Okay. Thank you. IÓd like to concentrate on the little bit of information that IÓd like to pass on to you. Before I start, IÓd just like to say my hope is that out of all these discussions today, the Planning Commission and the developer will come up with a creative solution to all these concerns. I believe it can be done and I 18 think IÓll start thinking about solutions from here on out. Obviously, the community has some concerns; and I think there is a practical solution. IÓd like to share with you the storm water pollution, oh, this is concerning the rezoning of the industrial property which is now part of the Hilo Coast Powe RS zoning. I would just like to share with you the storm water pollution plan and, particularly, a map showing which portion of the property weÓre discussing and how it inter -, how it is interfaced with the electric plantÓs current industrial activities. IÓm just going to give you the whole thing, but thereÓs several maps; and it just gives you a little bit of a visual picture of what weÓre talking about. HeÓs talking about rezoning to residential right amongst the plant activities, and I believe in an area that is part of, that they have to be concerned with storm water runoff. So IÓm just going to offer that up. I canÓt afford to copy it eight times but I brought you the original. Also, IÓm glad that everybody came today, I felt so alone; and I know that everybody else has more standing than I do concerning public access. I think that what everyone is saying about being discouraged from going down there is part of what the State CZM law is addressing, that the public should not be discouraged from using beaches that they have been using historically. And thatÓs where the difficulty comes in because of this negotiated agreement that made all these decisions for us. We didnÓt know this when those hearings were taking place, that this was done in the back weÓre happy that we have the trail and the opportunity to go on arguing about this. I just hope that everybody will understand that the Pepeekeo Community Association is cutting themselves a special situation that the public will not have, and in this case I think that, ultimately, the Hawaiian people have to be held up as the public deserve we all deserve, and nothing less. IÓd like to talk about asset value of the property. And in our SMA laws it does state that there is an accumulated impact. I can address those issues of accumulated impact of this development, and IÓm going to do so now. IÓd like to say that the accumulated impact could be viewed as the fact that the asset value of the greater parcel will be diminished to a point where it may assure that the coal ash will be cleaned up. I brought with me today a map of the property and a listing for the sale of the 779-acre parcel. It was withdrawn from the market in August when these hearings began, but the price that they were asking for the 776 acres was $7,760,000. Assuming that the portion weÓre talking about today is going to be approximately 11 lots and theyÓre currently selling at about, listed at, those oceanfront lots are currently listed at about $395,000 apiece. this hearing heÓll be able to parcel out 1l lots, thatÓs worth about $4 million. That would not be part of the 776 acres but thatÓs still a value heÓll be able to parcel out. I have a map here for you that shows the various smaller parcels that he will be able to sell independently of dealing with the coal ash pile. I believe that the Hawaiian Rainbows group is approximately paying $3 million for the 550 acres, including the coal ash pile. If IÓm wrong, IÓm wrong; but I believe theyÓve been marketing it at $3.5. That 19 means that it barely holds the value of what the cleanup costs would be if they fail to meet their obligations under their State permit. TheyÓre six months away from having to prove that they have removed 30,000 cubic yards. I donÓt believe theyÓve even begun. This means theyÓre going to have to remove 30 trucks worth of as months to meet that deadline. Of course they can try to meet it in other ways, but I donÓt think theyÓll be successful. I think by next June weÓll find out where they stand. If they donÓt manage to recycle it, the State is going to make them haul it to the Kona landfill. That will cost $32 per ton to landfill. ItÓs actually useful at the landfill. TheyÓll use it for cover and other things. We all agree this is useful material. We all wonder why they havenÓt started recycling it, but there must be a reason. I just want to make sure that everyone understands that there is a way that the developer can sell that portion and not have it equal the cleanup cost, and it could be abandoned. I think the developer is not responsible for creating it, and that relief falls on the facility operator, and that we should all clear this up quickly. IÓve asked you, I have written a written complaint last June or May stating that I was requesting public hearings be held for the Special Permit and the revision of SMA 221. I believe I read the Planning CommissionÓs rules and regulations state that you are here to guide the Planning Director, not the other way around; and he did not share my complaint with you. By law, they should have been required to have their public hearings. The Planning Director has acted without authority in this manner; and IÓm asking that you take into consideration that weÓre getting things backwards here. We need to assure that the asset value is there. I think that if you take an action, Continental Pacific can go back to the facility operator, make them take care of this problem, make them put up the bond. They certainly have the money, theyÓve been selling $40 million every year. I think that, at this point, the coal ash has been named as one of the items that is listed as a non-source point pollution in the Hilo Bay and watershed area. ItÓs not proven to be stable, it washes away with the storm water. You cannot just spread it all over as everyone is hoping to do. If you put it on roads, you need, theyÓre going to have to get people to sign off, acknowledging that theyÓre responsible for it not washing into the ocean. What is now a Clean Water Act violation in one location could end up being a non-source pollution violation in our watershed. So itÓs not as easy as, oh, hey, hereÓs all this free material. ItÓs a complicated job finding a way to recycle it in a way that it doesnÓt move around and get into the ocean. I donÓt want argue about the contents of it, and this and that. If you go on the web and read all the studies that were done and present it to Congress, you will find that thereÓs two opinions on everything. But if you look at how the other states are handling coal ash, nobody is handling it the way that this County is handling this pile. And I hope that you understand that thereÓs only two people who can do anything now, itÓs the State and the County. The EPA is not going to go any further. They have no jurisdiction over the solid waste. ItÓs the State and County matter now, and I believe itÓs within your jurisdiction and what your job is about to advise the Planning Director. 20 I do want to say that IÓve talked to Ann over at the State CZM office. SheÓs also an attorney, which is helpful. And I wrote to her and made my complaints concerning this subdivision, and she has agreed to meet with the County Planning Department and go over the general objectives of the CZM laws. She said that itÓs not their place to make comments about permit applications such as this; but, obviously, they have some concerns or they wouldnÓt have asked for a meeting with the Planning Department. She said that Christopher Yuen would not be there; and I feel that itÓs imperative, Chris, that you go because you are the one who is in control, and we all kno do everything out of your office, and nobody else gets to participate in those decisions. So to send somebody else in your place, I think, is unforgivable. I think that you need to go yourself and discuss this and understand what theyÓre saying, because itÓs just a chance for dialogue. And maybe someone from the Planning Commission would like to go and discuss it. She talked about possibly the first week in December. But IÓm hoping that everybody will be creative, solve these problems. I think weÓre really close. I think we can do a good subdivision. I think we need places for people to build homes, people, places for people to farm; and you never know, maybe the prices maybe the subdivider will take a chunk and divide it into affordable parcels or designate part of it affordable. But I hope for the best. Thank you. GALDONES:Thank you. Commissioners, any questions of Ms. Rohr? If not, Harvey Ke -. IÓm not so sure what your last name is, sir. Coul name, your residence address, and you may begin your testimony. KELIIKOA:Yeah, my name is, before I go any further, aloha. My name is Harvey Keliikoa. I reside at KingÓs Landing. My concern today, I want to ask each and every one of you a question. Any of you, besides Hannah Springer, Hawaiian on this board? By the raise of their hands, any of you are Hawaiian, Kanaka Maoli, besides Hannah? MINA:I am. KELIIKOA:I think the rest of you shouldnÓt be here, shouldnÓt even be present. The concerns that we have in regards to Native Tenant Rights, what I just heard from the gentleman, Mr. Anthony, I commend him for his comments for speak Hawaiians, as you folks call it, and for citizens concerning their place of residence in the Hamakua district. I go there before, before being blocked out. Hakalau was the best. I go collect the ili rocks, you know. Now, I canÓt go back down the other side. You, as the Planning Commission, if you guys want to call that, I donÓt think you folks even should be even making decisions for me. You havenÓt consulted with me. of you consent to make decisions for me. You havenÓt asked any and, furthermore, that the developer, Continental Pacific, is unprofessional. They should be here. Where are they? So what are we going to do about this? I guess we canÓt do really much, you making decisions for me, my family, a Kanaka Maoli. ThereÓs only two of them, right here, can 21 speak for my behalf. The rest, none, shouldnÓt even be up there. ThatÓs a concern I have right now, my rights as a Kanaka Maoli. ThatÓs all I have to say. Thank you. GALDONES:Thank you. Any questions? If none, I would like to call on, you may be excused, ladies. Thank you. Dwight Vincent, M. Staszkow? PUBLIC:He just stepped out. HeÓll return. GALDONES:Is Dwight Vincent here? VINCENT:Good morning. IÓm making a -. GALDONES:Could you please raise your right hand? VINCENT:I donÓt make sworn statements, but what I do make is pub protest statements. In order for, to get me, make me take an oath, you have to have authority. I believe there is no authority. Each and every one of you took the oath to support and defend the U.S. Constitution, you nullified your aut contradictions going on. So, if youÓll let me, IÓll make my public statement under protest. GALDONES:You may proceed. VINCENT:Okay. If you look at the history here in Hawaii going back when the missionary families came over, they remained as U.S. citizen they wrote the Bayonete Constitution. In there they secured the right to vote; and, also, before that they was holding public office illegally as foreign nationals. It was a binding treaty between the United States and the Americans here. They later took over by writing the Bayonete Constitution which secured their right to vote in a foreign county, despite the treaty hanging over their head. In 1893, they threw out the Queen for writing a new Constitution to get rid of that 1887. ItÓs in the proclamation that Stanford B. Dole wrote. In 1894, they had to write a new Constitution. They called themselves the Republic of Hawaii. Why? As U.S. citizens, they were not recognized. The Provisional and the Republic was not recognized in the family of nations by treaty, so they were caught in a Catch 22. What do we do? We write a new Constitution which hoo the 1894. The 1887 had treaty signed by King Kalakaua, which was going to expire in 1898. So in 1898, at the time of the expiration of those treaties, they was caught in another Catch 22. What do we do now? TheyÓre not authorized to sign treaties. So what do we do? A joint resolution. A joint resolution has no force and effect of law in a foreign country. United States claimed that, annexed Hawaii to the United States without constitutional authority. They had placed Hawaii under the Northwest Ordinance of 1887; and thatÓs why Hawaii was called the Territory of the United States. California is under the same dilemma. Alaska, Philippines, South Korea, Cuba, Puerto Rico, everywhere felt like dominos under the Northwest Ordinance, which has no force and effect of law because it was superceded by the Constitution. In the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section -. Let me restate that. 22 Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2, which states that Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all need for rules and regulations respecting the Territory. They was referring only to the Northwest Ordinance. Getting rid of those lands. Thomas Jefferson himself realized there was no authority, no legal authority, over those lands, so he proposed three amendments which never passed. And what did he do later on? He purchased Louisiana, realizing there was no authority, not under the Articles of Confederation which it was written under and not under the U.S. Constitution. In the joint resolution of 1898, one of the biggest mistakes they made in the, to do illegal activity was, decided the U.S. Constitution was a controlling law over that document, which was nullified. In the Organic Act 1900, same act, nullified. So in 1959, the Mission Act, same thing, nullified. State Constitution, again, nullified. Why? Because it cited the controlling law as being the U.S. Constitution giving them no authority to do any of those acts. Lot of people say Hawaii is part of the United States. I say, no, look at the American flag, it has 50 stripes, with only 13 stripes. Till today the United States is 13 states. For each state, one star, one stripe. So IÓd have to look at the flag and say thereÓs something wrong. ThereÓs no legal authority here to conduct any business. Land title is in suspension right now because of the Royal Land Patent. The only people that legally issue them is no longer around to transfer. TMKs is not a right to own land. You have no ownership rights. So itÓs all in question. So I think not any one of you have any authority to make any decision, other than to cease and desist. Over 100 years of illegal, what they call, use of patience of power under the guise of the Northwest Ordinance, which has never been attacked yet, never was taken up to the U.S. Supreme Court to be challenged. And I think thatÓs the jurisdiction statement that has to be put into question. Did the United States acquire jurisdiction based on the Northwest Ordinance? I would say, no. So everything here is illegal. The rights of the indigenous people is still intact. Right now thereÓs no legal or authorized government to do any kind of business here; and thereÓs a lot of foreign nationals here that claim to be U.S. citizens. Their citizenship shall be in question. If you look back at those guys that participated with the Republic and the Provisional government, they had the understanding that their taking the oath to those two governments did not terminate their nationality. If they were Americans, they remained as Americans. So, and whatever other foreign nationalities that participated -. So thereÓs a lot of questions that should be, gotta be answered. Over 100 years has gone by, and I think itÓs about time those questions be taken up and get an answer for. So my public statement is made under protest. I reserve all my rights GALDONES:Hold on, Mr. Vincent. Commissioners, any questions of 23 Mr. Vincent? If not, thank you, Mr. Vincent. Is M. Staszkow present and Doreen Keomalu? Please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:Yes. GALDONES:Please state your name, your residence address, and you may begin your testimony. STASZKOW:My name is Captain Retired Michael Ernest Anthony Paahano Staszkow. I live at 28-1683 Akaka Falls Road in Honomu. I teach at Honokaa School, and I took personal leave today to talk to you. Pardon me for being late but it was 10:30 in the paper so when I walked in I was kind of shocked. Here we I certainly do understand the frustrations of my fellow Hawaiians living down in KingÓs Landing. And although, you know, IÓm not a Native Hawaiian, IÓm part Hawaiian. IÓve used the imu rocks at Hakalau for my students at every school that IÓve been because I learned how to kalua one ton at a time from Uncle Papa Awai. Th this. And IÓve only returned to the Department of Education, I would say $150,000 over the time that IÓve been working there. So my purpose here is to share my disgust with LLB and Doc Buyers, to say that they havenÓt treated the County and others of you here with any kind of respect. They havenÓt built in good faith. ThereÓs no such thing as fair faith and credit amongst them. If they were, they would be here. Their only God is money, and thatÓs what they worship; and when theyÓre done worshipping that, then the next God is power. Why are the kids doing ice? ItÓs only a symptom, yeah? I was w Pahoa, six years at Laupahoehoe and now at Honokaa. Part of the problem is access. You know, you get high wind, you catch a good wave. Tonight IÓm going to referee Farrington at Hilo and I wish Hilo all the luck in the world, till I put on a black-and-white uniform. I also wish HPA luck tomorrow in Maui. Those kids get there and represent their schools. You know, I still get high, you know, when I boogie board. But these things that theyÓre telling us, foothpaths and gates, forget about the Hawaiian issue for a second. What about the old Japanese that have worked all their lives, and now they live in Hakalau and Wailea, and they cannot go down there with footpaths to fish. And they catch little fish that I no more time for do, but they got nothing but time on their hands. So on the autumn of their life they canÓt do what they did when they were younger. Nor can they pass on these skills t and my vovo taught me. ItÓs really frustrating that when we get to the point that we say that the Honomu Village Association and Hakalau Village Association are going to open th and will close it, because we want the gates still there. We still think that the people that live in Hakalau should not be subject to noise pollution at night, most of the young kids racing up and down the road. We told them that we would not, another aina -. And as soon as we get close to this, all of a sudden they attack County officials. They donÓt 24 show up at meetings. I mean, I just wish my ancestors would come out of their grave and choke -, or that they would get on the next plane and go back into the sewer that they came out of. Either way I donÓt care. But we have been dealing in good faith. We have followed the rule of law and the Northwest Ordinance. WeÓve done all that. ItÓs stuff I teach. And, finally, you know, when you see it coming, they do this kin donÓt have respect for this body, they donÓt have respect for the County Council. I canÓt understand why we canÓt have access to Hakalau. And I think that part of the problem that we have on this island with our young people is access. You know, the bridge was restored. God bless them, they restored the bridge and everything was good. And as soon as the bridge people left, what, about a month ago, we thought we were going to have a deal where they would at least give us access or cede Hakalau to the County, and they havenÓt. IÓm talking about LLB and Doc Buyers. A sign over there says, ÐOla Namoku.Ñ ItÓs well within the rights of everybody on this island, Hawaiians or not, to have access on the Pacific access shoreline. And shoreline access rules, and not access that means you young, you can get there; if youÓre old, you canÓt. ItÓs not the way we was raised. Right? ItÓs not the way we should treat our kupunas at the autumn of their life. th Tomorrow, we celebrate the 40 anniversary of the death of Jack Kennedy. You know, when I grew up I grew up at the time when we had Jack and Jack, Jack Kennedy and Jack Burns. ThatÓs when I was really a Democrat, before the teacherÓs strike. But, well, IÓm still wild about Harry, anyway. But, you know, we celebrate that and it was a good time to grow up because both men at vision; and they both put it on the line and they both made tough decisions. You know, Jack Burns was an usher at my f Communion; yet, he told the Bishop that a woman had the right to terminate her pregnancy in the first trimester. ThatÓs the kind of leadership we need now, so sorely lacking in the Federal, State and local level, and IÓm not blaming you. IÓm just frustrated. Let me paraphrase a couple of folks in history for me, and the people that want access at Hakalau, the hope goes on, the process still lives, the goal will never diminish, and we will be heard. Do you have any questions for me? GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Staszkow. STASZKOW:Thank you. GALDONESCommissioners, any question of Mr. Staszkow? Thank you. Keomalu? KEOMALU:Good morning. 25 GALDONES:State your name, your residence address and you may beg testimony. KEOMALU:My name is Doreen Keomalu. My address is 28-2960 Kumula Street in Pepeekeo. And in 1986, I was the secretary for the Honomu Village Association and currently IÓm the producer of Hakalau for All Video on Public Access. Okay, the next show for Hakalau for all Part 2 is 1 oÓclock p.m. Monday, t And IÓve been working with Mike on this project since it began, when they closed the gate to do the lead removal on the bridge. And my understanding information was coming from Mike Staszkow. But I was a supporter of having the gate opened and the beach reopened for people to go in and fish, and camp, and swim, and whatever, get exercise. And that has been going on for about a year-and-a-half now, almost two years. I understood that the lead removal job was going to be three years long and itÓll be finished in July, by July, and then it got extended, which I understand anything could happen. But the gate has not been opened. According to the newspaper article, the gate was supposed to be, the gate at Hakalau was supposed to be opened from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m.; and it hasnÓt been opened once for people to go in there. And thatÓs the one thing I wanted to address Òcause weÓd like to go in right away. WeÓve been wanting to go in for a year- and-a-half now. You know, understanding that the job was down there was one thing, but for the past two months theyÓve been gone. So if something could be done about that and on the Pepeekeo Point side. I wanted to address Part C, the Special Management Area application. That area down there, locals call it 23 Flat and itÓs the roadway that goes from the mill area down to the bay area. ItÓs about a mile long, itÓs right on the coastline. That road has also been a, access has been denied to that old cane haul road, too. And as far as resource sub-zones go, where it says to sustain use, people have been fishing down there forever. Since 1986 when I was the secretary for the Honomu Village Association, that was a common area for overnight fishing and camping. Overnight fishing, aama crab catching, mostly all that coastline. I mean, thereÓs no way to get a boat down there or anything unless they come from around and just go out there. But they really did do that, overnight fishing, and camping, and getting crab. And what eventually happened with the development down there is that gates were put up where you canÓt get down there from the main highway. You have to go in through the Hilo Coast mill; and those gates arenÓt always open, either. I donÓt know what theyÓre trying to do, you know, besides, I guess, change the landscape. But when they say that theyÓre applying to do a, including a portion of a roadway lot, I would like to see that coastline cane haul road maintained so that we can go down there and keep on camping and fishing, to be able to go in there and still be able to do that, and to go to Hakalau. And, well, Hakalau has got a big parking area cleared and itÓs still a nice place to go. I tried walking in there. I canÓt do it. I canÓt get in there. And after swiming, I canÓt get back out, itÓs terrible. And IÓm not that old. I see people going in there to do it. The most, the best they do is warabi. But back in the old day, they used to get everything out 26 of there from opai to mullet, to opihis, and everything; and itÓs just too hard to do. And, so, I would like to advocate for vehicular access in both areas. And since 1986, personally, I know people do go out there and fish, camp, both sides. And thatÓs what theyÓve always been doing. And so if could get the gate open in Hakalau, that would be good. And Pepeekeo Point side, as long as they could just, I mean, IÓm not asking them to improve the road, just to leave it open so people can get in there from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., and do the permit process through Pepeekeo Association for overnight camping. I mean, the people I know in the group that IÓm with are more than willing to do a permit process. ThatÓs all. Any questions? GALDONES:Thank you, Ms. Keomalu. Commissioner Springer? SPRINGER:I just have a question for the Director. Since Hakalau has been mentioned by a couple of testifiers, is there any guidance we can offer them as to where they should submit their comments? YUEN:Hakalau is not a part of this application. The gate at Hakalau was put up by Steven Wolf, who owns some of the property down there. connection, the most direct connection I think between Hakalau and this application is that at one time Jere Henderson, who is one of the principals of Continental Pacific, who is the Applicant here, had the Hakalau mill site under contract from C. Brewer. The last I heard is that heÓs not going to buy the Hakalau mill site, so that -. IÓm working on Hakalau. I think Mike knows that; and there had been some ups and downs. IÓm trying to restore, I mean, the goal is to restore vehicular access to Hakalau because it was a very popular place for people to drive down. YouÓd see people there all the time. And itÓs one of the few places along the Hamakua Coast where people can get in and out of the water safely and enjoy the ocean. So IÓve been working on it for a while. I donÓt want to, itÓs not the subject here at this meeting so I donÓt want to go into it blow-by-blow. IÓm still working on some -. I hope that we can get vehicular access restored, though; and that is a project that I am working on apart from, separate from this appl SPRINGER:Thank you. KEOMALU:IÓd like to make an amendment to my minutes, and I reall pronounce the name of the stream that IÓm talking about in Hakalau. Mike, if you could, he did it on the video. What is the name of that stream, Mike, to my minutes. STASZKOW:I forget. I didnÓt bring it with me. KEOMALU:Waioau-something. It was in the newspaper article. I canÓt pronounce it. But thatÓs the name of the stream in question. T like to add into the amendment. If it was filed under a different name, it was filed in the application process under a different name instead of using Hakalau mill. IÓd like to amend it to the proper name for the area. 27 GALDONES:It will be so noted in the records. KEOMALU:Thank you. GALDONES:Any further questions? Otherwise, thank you very much. YouÓre excused. One last testifier, June Rabago? ANTHONY:Mr. Chairman, if I may ask a question. In my haste I didnÓt clarify whether or not -. My request for a contested case hearing, is it denied? GALDONES:Mr. Anthony, later on you may come up so we can put you record. Okay. RABAGO:My name is June Rabago. GALDONES:Could you raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning C RABAGO:Yes. GALDONES:State your name, residence address and you may begin your testimony. RABAGO:My name is June Rabago. I live at 28-2849 Onomea Place i Pepeekeo in the Kulaimano Subdivision. IÓm here as a private ci representing Lorraine Mendoza, who is the president of the Pepeekeo Community Association. She could not be here today. SheÓs on the other side of the island. As a private citizen, I am concerned about this development. I was not aware that it was taking place until I received a flyer at my home from the Pepeekeo Community Association. I am deeply concerned about access, and I mean vehicular access. IÓm concerned about ag lands. The Hamakua coast, the Hilo coast is deep soil. And if we give this away for someone to build a house on and theyÓre not going to be growing anything, I think itÓs a loss to the whole State, not just Hawaii County. I also have personal ties to the ocean. My husband is 53 years old. He was born in the old Pepeekeo Hospital, of course itÓs no longer there. He has fished his entire life on that coast, as well as his father, his brothers, his sisters. My nephew was scattered off of the coast down there by a place called the Old Japanese Graveyard. His ashes are out there. We cannot get there in a vehicle, we have to walk. To me, a vehicular access to the ocean, it should be no question. I donÓt want to make anyone think that IÓm anti-development. I am not anti- development. I believe that change is inevitable. But we need to take care and caution to protect the lands that are there for the use of agriculture, to protect the community. 28 Pepeekeo is a unique community, itÓs made up of lot of people wh plantation. My husband worked for the plantation until they closed. My father-in-law retired from the plantation. My uncle retired from the plantation. TheyÓre used to having that access. And I know that Mr.Yuen said that weÓre not entitled to that road under those rules, but I really think that something should be done to protect that. Now, on behalf of Lorraine Mendoza, she asked me to speak for he today. We would like to stand by the letter that we submitted to you folks, I believe, on th November 14, everyone should have a copy of that letter. And I was under the impression that the developer in this case has already agreed to a delay in this decision. And I was not going to come today, I scheduled other matters, thatÓs why I had leave and come back. So if IÓm mistaken in that, I want to make it very clear to everybody that we feel a delay is necessary. Pepeekeo Community Association, through itÓs President Lorraine Mendoza, is at this time trying to arrange a meeting with the developer, as well as other parties associated with the developer, for them to give us a presentation so everybody can have a clear understanding of what their intentions are. Now I know the developer has made some statements about they have tried to meet with us. But as some of the other testifiers said, many of us have jobs, we cannot be doing things all the time when we have to go to work. And if the developer truly wanted to have a meeting with the people in Pepeekeo, he could have taken the ball in hand, so to speak, and arranged for that meeting. ItÓs not our intention to be confrontational on this, but we really think that more dialogue needs to take place before this permit is acted upon. And thatÓs all I have to say. GALDONES:Thank you, Ms. Rabago. Commissioners, any question of Ms. Rabago? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:June? RABAGO:Yes. GRAHAM:WeÓve had this item before us for several months now. And I know back in September we got a letter from the Pepeekeo Community Association and Lorraine was here and testified; and it was supportive of the project at the time. And, so, now, weÓre getting a letter that we want a continuance and we want to discuss further issues. So I think probably most of us would like to understand a little bit about what has transpired that changed that position; and if there are any particular things that youÓre trying to accomplish with the developer by postponing for another month. RABAGO:Well, I think weÓre actually hoping for more than one month because the developer has told us that any meeting that they would meet with us, the holiday season is upon us and we may not be able to schedule until after the holidays. The things that weÓre trying to accomplish is, well, to speak to your first question about the first letter. As I said, itÓs not a direct opposition of development. ItÓs how the development is implemented and what their big plans are. Someti 29 puzzle and thereÓs a whole lot of pieces missing, you really donÓt know what that puzzle is until you get all the pieces in place. And that is where we are right now, is weÓre trying to see the whole picture. And weÓre concerned about access, weÓre concerned about keeping ag in the community, weÓre concerned about the effect on taxes for the people on fixed income -. WeÓre concerned about access, which is my, of course, pet peeve, but IÓm not saying that thatÓs all. I think thereÓs a lot of unanswered questions that people feel uneasy about. And, also, whether or not access, despite all of these words that weÓve heard about footpaths, etc., how will it be taken care in the future for future generations. And if this property is sold and sold and sold and sold, where is it written, is there a covenant in this property to provide for access for future generations to make sure that people, our grandchildren and their grown grandchildren after that, can have access to the ocean there; and IÓm not talking about a footpath, IÓm talking about vehicular access. If you want me to get personal, it seems to me that these people want to move in next door to me but they want to put a gate to make sure I canÓt get in. Now I donÓt want to be personal, okay, thatÓs my concern. GRAHAM:Yeah, I think the concerns youÓre expressing right now are similar to other concerns weÓre hearing today. But whatÓs striking to me is when we first heard testimony from Lorraine, and she spoke of two yearsÓ negotiating with these people and, we got a signed thing saying that they were in support of this particular request. So is it maybe that there are different people that are now becoming involved that have a different feeling, or is that the original people that put this forth have learned more in the process so theyÓve changed their position? Just so I can understand why that -. RABAGO:I think weÓve learned more, I think thatÓs what to say. I think thereÓs, itÓs all of the above. I think thereÓs more people coming to the community meetings, more people with questions that have not been answered, and weÓve learned more about what the big picture is; and thatÓs our concern. And this SMA permit which was going to be approved, I think, actually, two months ago or last month, is like the last stop. And, so, if we donÓt have time now to speak and learn and understand, itÓs a done deal. ThatÓs my understanding of this situation. GRAHAM:Okay. Thank you. RABAGO:Okay. And, again, one thing I want to add, itÓs my understanding that the developer, from what IÓve heard, is not opposed to giving us a little more time. So if that helps in your decision, thatÓs what I have been told. But, again, itÓs like what you said earlier, when people tell you something, are they really telling you something; and if itÓs not in writing, is it really the truth? I donÓt have it in writing. IÓd like something in black-and-white; and thatÓs what, I think, we donÓt have. GRAHAM:Thank you. GALDONES:Commissioners, any further questions? Thank you, Ms. Rabago. 30 RABAGO:Thank you very much. GALDONES:IÓd like to call on Mr. Anthony. He wanted to make a s before I call for a recess. Mr. Anthony? ANTHONY:IÓd just like to know if my request for a Contested Case hearing, is it denied? GALDONES:Well, the Commission is not in a position, Mr. Anthony, that because we do not have a Petition for a Contested Case Hearing before us. ANTHONY:Do I need to make a Petition? GALDONES:As I know the process, Mr. Anthony, yes. ANTHONY:Okay. Thank you. GALDONES:Okay. Any further discussion? Commissioners, I will c 5-minute recess before I call upon the ApplicantÓs representative to address us. RECESSEDThe Chair called a short recess at 11:02 a.m. RECONVENEDThe meeting reconvened at 11:17 a.m. GALDONES:Will the Hawaii County Planning Commission be back in o WeÓre proceeding with Application No. 1, Continental Pacific, LLC. At this time, I would like to call upon the Applicant or his representative to please step forward. Mr. Lim, please raise you right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? LIM:I do. GALDONES:Mr. Lim, could you please state your name, your residence address? LIM:Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, IÓm Steven Lim from Carlsmith Ball, HiloÓs office. First of all, I guess, as you can see from my address, we have been in discussions with the Pepeekeo Community Association, in contact with Representative Takamine and Senator Inouye, and various other members of the community. We had, I guess, the Legislators had filed a letter about a week ago requesting a continuance of the hearing. And so we discussed it with the clients and we made a decision early on this week and informed all the people that we would be not objecting to the request for a continuance. And, so, as a result, I made the call to tell the clients not to come today, so I hope that you can forgive me for that oversight. It wasnÓt 31 a lack of respect to both the Commission or to the people who came to testify today. You know, if thereÓs anybody to be blamed, you should blame me. We were expecting that it was going to be a relatively short continuance hearing. We didnÓt know that there were going to be a lot of people testifying because we thought the community also was going to hold off till the projected community meeting. WeÓre going to try to hold that as soon as possible. TheyÓre talking about something in December. But, as Ms. Rabago said, there might be for scheduling reasons difficult. WeÓre going to try to make it anytime the community wants to do So, you know, rather than to try to address the many issues that came up today, IÓd ask the Commission that they consider voting on the motion to continue the hearing. I guess in terms of the, you know, what hearing to continue to, does the Commission when they vote have to choose which hearing that they continue it to, if they do? GALDONES:For the record, IÓm not so sure if we can leave this open-ended. I need to get some direction here either from Mr. Yuen or Ms. OÓTo Norman. Can we vote, can the Commission vote on leaving the continuance open- ended? LIM:If the Planning Director knows when the next meeting in Janu is, perhaps we could continue it to that date. IÓm sure that if the community issues are not worked out by then, that we would probably be, you know, see if we can get an agreement from all the parties to try to continue that hearing again. YUEN:Norman, whatÓs our Hilo side meeting in January? th HAYASHI:We have a tentative date on January 8. However, we need to secure the venue, or the place. th YUEN:Okay. Okay. Yes, why donÓt we continue with the January 8. LIM:Again, I guess, in closing, I want to make sure that the com people heard me as, the developers, the Continental Pacific LLC is not here today because I told them not to come. We thought it was going to be a relatively short meeting just to continue the hearing and that weÓve have the substantive discussion later. So it was no intent to disrespect you or the Commission. GALDONES:Thank you. Commissioners, any questions of Mr. Lim? Commissioner Fujikawa? FUJIKAWA:I have a question on, on this particular continue, I see that thereÓs a lot of concern with the community. And can we do it where itÓs open but not to exceed maybe three months, two months, in time period for a hearing? 32 LIM:I guess on the part of the Applicant, we prefer that a date set and, Òcause otherwise, itÓs like you say itÓs open-ended, that we never know when we would come back. I donÓt have authority to agree to an open-ended continuance in any th event. So weÓd like to request that the January 8 hearing be set. I think what that does is it makes any further, you know, continuances subject to the meeting with the community. GALDONES:Mr. Lim, do you think in January, considering that the holidays are forthcoming, that itÓs a realistic date? LIM:I donÓt know. WeÓre pretty much waiting for the community t the day and time for us to show up and make the presentation. S to them. GALDONES:So youÓre okay with January? th LIM:Yes, I have authority to agree to January 8. And, like I said, if we are not able to make the community meeting by then or satisfy the concerns, itÓs my expectation that weÓll be coming to ask you for a continuance. sufficiently ahead of time before the hearing so youÓll know that weÓll not be coming. GALDONES:Commissioners, any further -. Commissioner Mina? MINA:Why donÓt we give them to February then, meeting? GALDONES:ItÓs just that Mr. Lim -. MINA:At least itÓll give them month-and-a-half in order to get pretty much everything finalized. If not, I mean, itÓs going to be open, open, open, open. I mean, thereÓs a lot of concerns in todayÓs testimony, you know. That like, you know, when you buy one book, you look at the book, oh, look good, right? When you start reading the book, you know, itÓs not what you wanted. ItÓs something like that. I mean, youÓve got to buy something that is confirmed, itÓs not going on and on. GALDONES:Mr. Lim? LIM:Like I say, weÓre waiting for the community to confirm it, b th weÓre, I think we tentatively scheduled it for a December 10 community meeting, you know. We donÓt know if theyÓre going to set it or not, but thatÓs what theyÓve told us. So weÓre reserving that date and preparing for that. So it may occur relatively quickly, at least we hope so. GALDONES:Okay. Any further questions, Commissioners? Otherwise, Mr. Lim -. ANTHONY:Can I ask a question? 33 GALDONES:IÓm going to be closing the public testimony, Mr. Anthony. ANTHONY:Can I ask the question? GALDONES:No. Not of the developer. ANTHONY:Well, IÓm objecting to this thing. They didnÓt show up. You should make them start all over again. ThatÓs what I say. You know what I mean? Leaving it open, open and open, when does the appearing for filing a Contested Case hearing start? TheyÓre always stuck behind closed door, and then now they come and say their lawyer made a mistake. ThatÓs their tough luck. They should start again. GALDONES:Okay, Mr. Anthony. Okay, Commissioners, any further questions? Thank you, Mr. Lim. Commissioners, before us is this application from Continental Pacific and there has been a request by the community to have this hearing continued. The Applicants have no objection and they are willing to consider a continuance and, as stated by the developer, they are willing to continue it to the next Hilo meeting in th January, that will be January 8. WhatÓs the wishes of the Commission? SPRINGER:Mr. Chair? GALDONES:Commissioner Springer? SPRINGER:I move that the applications by Continental Pacific, SLU 03-006/ th REZ 03-014/SMA 03-009, be continued until the January 8 meeting of the Hawaii County Planning Commission. MINA:I second. GALDONES:It has been moved by Commissioner Springer, seconded by Commissioner Mina, that the State Land Use Boundary Amendment application (SLU 03-006), Change of Zone application (REZ 03-014), and a Special Management Area Use th Permit (SMA 03-009), be continued to the January 8 meeting. Any further discussion from the Commissioners? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:IÓd just like to also make a request of the Planning Director with regard to coal ash pile. It feels like the linkage with this particular application is not firm th but itÓs also not totally unlinked in my mind. IÓm just wondering if at the January 8 meeting you could provide a little update on whatÓs being done and how things are moving so that we feel like weÓre up to where things are at with that. YUEN:All right, fine. GRAHAM:Thank you. 34 GALDONES:So noted. Any further discussion? Norman? HAYASHI:Mr. Chair, before I do take the roll call, if youÓre ask call vote, I want to make clear that we have not established the exact date for the next Hilo meeting. We need to secure the place. So perhaps if the maker of the motion could amend the motion to say that Ðat the next Hilo meeting in Januar GALDONES:Maker? SPRINGER:So done. MINA:Done. GALDONES:The maker and the seconder are okay with that, Norman. HAYASHI:Commissioner Springer? SPRINGER:Yes. HAYASHI:Commissioner Thibadeau? THIBADEAU:Aye. HAYASHI:Commissioner Fujikawa? FUJIKAWA:Aye. HAYASHI:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Aye. HAYASHI:Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Aye. HAYASHI:Commissioner Mina? MINA:Aye. HAYASHI:Chair? GALDONES:Aye. HAYASHI:Mr. Chair, motion carries. GALDONES:Thank you. 35 The discussion ended at 11:29 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary 36