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Home My WebLink About2023_01_17 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes (DRAFT) Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawai’i Minutes (DRAFT 2) Meeting Date: January 17, 2023 Time: 2:00 pm to 4:00 pm Primary Location: Remote Meeting via Zoom Public Location: 25 Aupuni St., Puna Conference Room, Ste. #1501, Hilo HI, 96720 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: The meeting was called to order at 2:02 pm. District 1 - Robert Duerr, Present, in person District 2 - Kean Umeda, Excused District 3 - Rhon Leomana Turalde, in person District 4 – Brian Ley – Present, Excused District 5 - Abraham Antonio, Present, in person District 6 – Austin Griffey – Present, via Zoom District 7 – Natalie Reynolds – Present, Via Zoom District 8 – Cortney Okumura – Excused District 9 - George Donev, Excused Quorum Established (Total of 5) STAFF: Sylvia Wan, Deputy Attorney, Corporation Counsel, in person. Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist, OOM, via Zoom. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: December 13, 2022 Action: Motion made R. Duerr to approve December 13, 2022, minutes as circulated. Seconded by L. Turalde. Motion carried unanimously by poll voice vote. 3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: AA: Any statements from the public on agenda items? We have no people in the public meeting room and I don’t see anybody raising their hands in the Chats. 4. COMMISSIONER REPORT BY DISTRICT: AA: Commissioner Reports by District. District – 1, Robert Duerr? RD: I met with County Council Chair, Heather Kimball. We discussed a problem that she’s having in District – 1, which is nuisance pigs and she’s interested in exploring ways to deal with it and maybe get grants and so she’s very open, she’s gonna have another meeting in March and 2) also Dexter Egdamin approached me on an issue about handicapped hunters and perhaps it would be – at some time have Dexter on the agenda to kind of go over this – he had some 1 concerns on handicapped hunting and then also hunting for youth. And the other thing, too, CIP funds, legislation’s gonna be introduced by Richard Onishi for Wailoa River improvements. So, that’s in the process and then also Representative Nicole Lowen is gonna re-introduce the bill that she had last year which was to audit the Division of Boating and Ocean Recreation – where their funds and the performance. Also, when I talked to Heather Kimball about Pepeekeo – she said they’re in the process of working out a deal with land exchange with the owner of Pepeekeo – Hank Correa – and so they’re in the process now and it looks like it’s gonna happen and they’re working that out and also Heather Kimball’s very, very concerned about access in District – 1 which includes Waipio Valley, Laupahoehoe, Hakalau, Kolekole and also Pepeekeo. That’s all I have for District – 1. SW: Just a point of clarification – when you’re talking about access – access to what? RD: Access to hunting, fishing and gathering… For Waipio, the access for gatherers, fishers and hunters. SW: OK. Is there a specific access point that you’re talking about or just in general access? RD: All those areas currently have access problems. SW: Thank you. AA: Abraham Antonio – \[unclear\]. \[Unclear\] looking into where District – 2, we should be covering that type of issues as well. RD: OK. AA: Stanley Mendes whose term is expiring and so we have that \[unclear\] covering the handicapped \[unclear\]. As far as the accesses I think we going talk maybe more about the Laupahoehoe later on. RD: Right, OK. AA: And then as far as the other ones going coming up later. RD: OK. Great. AA: District – 2, absent. District – 3, Leomana? LT: Aloha, Leomana, District 3 – just wanted to remind everybody the boundaries of District – 3, I had to look this up today again because if you guys Google any political boundaries in Hawaii they’re all different so just a reminder District – 3 is from Keaukaha to Kaloli – that’s all in HPP – that’s one direction and the opposite direction is the Oceanside of Panaewa all the way up to Kulani, and District – 3 is bounded – the Hilo Forest Reserve, the Waiakea Forest Reserve the Olaa Forest Reserve, the Panaewa rainforest, upper Waiakea Reserve Forest, Puu Makaala, Area Reserve and all the coastlines from Wailoa River all the way to Shipman Beach which is Kanaena. And that’s in District – 3, so in District – 3, \[unclear\] game animals like always pigs is always the biggest nuisance especially in HPP in the residential areas and also in the back of Panaewa due 2 to fencing of private property. This is always gonna be a concern in our area I think and even the Chair Abraham said he’s got \[unclear\] calls for pigs. I’m sorry, and yet another one I don’t know if the pigeons are considered wild game because they were brought here as a food source and so I don’t know if that’s under our jurisdiction or not but there’s a huge influx of pigeons in Hilo area in our District – 3, with the zebra pigeons and also that colorful ones – I don’t really know the name of ‘em but they’re that ones that hang out on top of the poles and stuff – they’re becoming a big nuisance downtown popping all over the sidewalks all over the cars and just causing a mess. Some updates on District – 3 since 2014 - 60% of the ohia forest has died and decreased in population – this caused no iiwi to be in District 3. The last place the iiwi was seen was in upper Kulani in the back of the Ainahou Reserve. There’s gonna be a harbor extension – they’ve already been working on the harbor extension coming towards Coconut Island and Reed’s Bay area. They’re in the process of extending it – I know the plans they said something about submarine base at one point and then now, according to the director at \[unclear\] it’s just – he didn’t say anything just more shipping containers and more area for the barges to come in. The last two months there were 2 million gallons of raw sewage released into Keaukaha – Keaukaha is the only beach access for humans on the East side of the Island – so we have 2 million gallons of raw sewage in Keaukaha and the closest beach to the raw sewage ley and distribution is only Kahakaha Beach which is the beach that houses all of our babies, all of our keikis and so there was 2 shutdowns last year and I’m expecting 4 shutdowns this year of the beach itself due to bacteria warnings and I only talk about these situations because it has to do with a lot of the fish population in the area. Keaukaha houses all the fishponds for all the brackish water fish and all of the fishponds in Keaukaha are closed off because they’re private property and there’s only two ponds open to the open ocean leaving the aholehole, the mullet, the wo’owo’o spawning area, spawning grounds in the brackish water. At the end of Keaukaha in King’s Landing behind the airport – the military is acquiring more land - wasn’t able to talk to any of the military personnel to see what they’re doing but I do know from going to the Hawaiian Homes meetings the last three months on You Tube on their lives that the Hawaiian Homes Commission said they’re turning King’s Landing area in to some sort of area reserve and the future plans for King’s Landing is to be turned into a tourist walking park so they want to build like a tourist destination that you go walking into the park, into the ponds back there. These ponds are the only ponds accessible to the ocean for all of the fish to spawn and that’s what’s gonna happen to King’s Landing area up until the military boundary line behind the airport. And then, like you were talking about access into all of our forest reserve areas – because last month they had all the road closures and I know they bull dozed a couple more miles of forest – firebreaks – cause of the lava and then DLNR on our last meeting last month even they are concerned that it was done behind Kulani – from upper Kulani going all the way to Mauna Loa Access Road that they bull dozed for firebreaks. So that’s another access point into District – 3 from the top from Mauna Loa Access Road and also from Volcano into all of our forest reserves for the top area. And that is it for me, thank you. AA: The King’s Landing expanded \[unclear\] the community know about that \[unclear\]. Abraham, District – 5. LT: Leomana, District – 3, in the DHHL meetings there’s no like – you can only observe what they talk about there’s no commentary so I think the Pipio Wana’s daughter was leading that project cause there were people living back there plus all of the uncles back there that I know – they all moved out and I guess they came into some agreement where they’re trying to turn that area 3 into a reserve of some sort so the military cannot take it. Some political battle \[unclear\] but, I mean, I got all of that off of last month’s Hawaiian Homes meeting. AA: Abraham, District 5. For me I just concerned about you know with the construction that’s gonna be happening up there and if that’s one vital spawning ponds… LT: Yeah, or even like the tourist destination, yeah, like… AA: Just all the pressure coming in, yeah? LT: Yeah. AA: Go holoholo nighttime and go gather nighttime sometimes once in a while back there \[unclear\] stress on the public go back there. LT: And just people swimming in the ponds and taking the fish out and creating bigger trails for more access… AA: Right… LT: Even all of our \[unclear\] in, you know, in Hilo – over population of tourists the past two months \[unclear\] then, I’m not too sure what’s gonna happen \[unclear\] I did watch the Hawaiian Homes meeting \[unclear\]. AA: I guess just keep an eye on that \[unclear\] cause \[unclear\] one very strong \[unclear\] and the same thing as the all that sewage water – I know that they updating the facility so hopefully they’re updating it for the better but there’s something that we can look into as well. LT: Yeah, as far as sewage water right up Onekahakaha Beach – if you guys go into Keaukaha only Onekahakaha Beach there’s the main pump station right there on the property. AA: Yeah. LT: And I think it’s the highest point in Keaukaha right at that hill and that’s why they have the generator there but everyday \[unclear\] two generators to just… AA: \[Unclear\] LT: Yeah, they just, you know, help the pumps out. Cause every time is breaks – our property’s right there – I see it all in the water and then they shut down Onekahakaha Beach. AA: And then as far as District – 3 they also expanding – fixing the Stainback Road \[unclear\] District – 2, ah? LT: Oh, yeah… AA: They digging the side of the road and then they’re making easier access for \[unclear\]. 4 LT: OK, that’s what they’re, yeah. RD: Leomana? Robert Duerr, District – 1. The harbor – Pier 3 had a mitigation package when they took coral and they never put it into place so they were gonna put buoys \[unclear\] and they never implemented it. It’s been very difficult to track it down. One thing to watch is going to Pier 4 – are they going to destroy coral and will there be a mitigation package and what will it be? And another critical thing there is that Reed’s Bay currently has no access facilities for boats so in that expansion of Pier 4 – will there be any access for canoes? A couple of traditional Hawaiian canoes \[unclear\] moored there but no place to get to the shore. LT: Yeah. AA: And you can’t find out what’s wrong – why \[unclear\] so close – is that part of that expansion or is it just a security concern. Cause they closed it from COVID and it hasn’t even opened up yet. RD: Leomana – Robert Duerr. Question – where did you get the numbers as it’s 2 million gallons released in… LT: Leomana, District – 3, that was on the news. I think it’s on Big Island News Now and they just did a report on it and then linked it back to Hawaii News Now. AA: District – 5, Abraham Antonio. Yeah, my district same as every other district – pretty much influxes of pigs, my household member Matt \[unclear\] gets \[unclear\] social media posts with my number on it which my number is on the State trapping list so it’s technically a public thing but surprisingly with it being on social media my phone has not rang off the hook as I thought it would but just over the weekend I got three sows \[unclear\] down at Opihikala got another one down there but \[unclear\]. Ah, just before our meeting I had another phone call so after this I gotta go up in Paradise Park and set another trap there – so there’s a lot of trapping going on – so if anybody else is willing to be a trapper just go on the – get your contact information to me or contact DOFAW and get on their public trapper list. There are some people on social media claiming that they’re insured and licensed but per talking to DOFAW and even county officials there’s no license like maybe they can get some kind of insurance policy for that but there’s no license to be a trapper so you can just buy yourself a trap and you’re a trapper. But just be careful, if you guys \[unclear\] pig is \[unclear\] there are different sizes, different characteristics in each pig, they are dangerous – if you don’t know what you’re doing do not attempt it. Ah, District – 6? Austin? AG: District – 6, Austin Griffey here. I’ve been noticing a lot of sick pigs in my district. The last three pigs I caught in the last 2 days – both were infected with some kind of parasite or tenderloin infested with pus and parasites as well – upper esophagus parasites, so I’d say more than 80% of the pigs I’ve been catching in the last six months have all been infected with the same parasite or disease. I’ve also caught a pig with this herpes virus which is this white beadies – like little tiny white pus balls inside of the knee – I just want everybody to be aware of it that you need – if you’re gonna be killing pigs – you need to look at the intestines and examine the pig before you digest it. There’s – I have a few things I can show on –I’m not too savvy with this technical stuff but I will try and send it to Barbara – it’s a whole documentary or basically it’s saying all the virus – stating all the viruses that are out there and what to look for – and it’s the worms – the type of 5 worms that are in them as well. Cause it can be harmful to humans, I mean, we can all catch trichinosis from these pigs and stuff like that. I, myself, I got some – a bucket of wormer and I feed pigs at my own property and I’m starting to throw out some wormers out there to try and knock down this worm issue cause the thing that they do is they poop it out on the ground and if it’s in direct sunlight it can die within 24 hours from the sunlight – the parasite can – but if it’s mostly in the shaded areas like where the pigs are another animal or a bird or any mongoose – the worms can be transferred to them and, we need to definitely get this under control cause majority of our pigs over here are really sick on this side of the Island. The whole Milolii area is getting pretty bad. Almost every pig I catch now is not edible to me, I mean, for me my family that pig has to be perfect for me to feed it to my family and we gotta teach guys what to look for, for sure, ‘cause I even pulled out one liver that was literally 16 inches long – looked like one tongue – not – it was really abnormal and it’s \[unclear\] for sure. But other than that – everything else is good. There is – I would say – there is somewhat an epidemic on this Island of these crazy cat ladies feeding all these cats everywhere – these feral cat problems. We gotta somehow stop that cause those cats are making our places smell like a litter box – they’re turning our clean KTA shopping center or Long’s Drugs into one litter box and the cats are not only spreading these worms and stuff like these pigs are but there’s also other diseases they carry as well and I don’t see how it’s legal that these ladies can go and feed these cats at these sites and stuff like that. They’re also attacking our bird population and it’s gonna get worse for sure so… That’s all I have for District – 6. SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. Commissioner Griffey you can provide that handout to Barbara – you can make sure it’s disseminated at next month’s meeting and if you want to have more time talking about it you can talk to either the Chair or Barbara about adding it as an agenda item. AG: OK. Thank you. LT: Leomana, District – 3. I just wanted to ask if you can share that also on top of social media I think we can have a big impact quickly on the Big Island if we just round up all of the people that we know – rally together on social media – we can all go Kau and hunt, go South Kona and hunt – and kind of tackle this as a community and then for the cat lady – it’s illegal to feed wild animals in Hawaii. Tell her straight to her face. AG: They’re pretty crazy if you confront ‘em like that – that’s for sure. AA: District – 5. So, Austin, we had this worm problems brought up to the Commission before and actually I brought it up from before I even was a Commissioner. We had the west side biologist at the time – which was Joey Mello. What I did at that time, working with him and talking with him and even while on the Commission in my beginning years was – collect samples when you kill anything – the pigs, the goats – collect you guys’ samples and get it to the USDA. They actually do samples, I mean, they go check it out and see what’s – how healthy is the game – like for brucellosis and trichinosis and everything else. As far as the worms, they claim that it’s just one outburst – like a yearly thing – like not sure exactly what time of the year or whatever that all happens because where I hunt sporadically sometimes the pigs get one high influx with worms and then later on in the year it’s kinda all gone. So good thing that you feeding the ones 6 that’s around you that wormer – but I tried to get something like that for them as well, you know, advise them to but they’re like, how you going worm the forest… AG: Right, that’s how I was thinking of some kind of pig station for feeding them wormer to try and keep our animals healthy, I mean, cause it’s gonna pass on to every other animal or two and I did take some photos of what I found in the last two pigs. One – I shot two pigs in my yard the other night when I came home from the rodeo and one was – the tall tale is the gut no like pull – you already know the gut’s not pulling something’s wrong – the tenderloin is attached to it cause the worms and everything is scarred and was holding it together so the whole tenderloin went rip open pus shooting out – worms everywhere and it stinked. And then the other one’s had tumors on top of the esophagus. It was weird like big tumors like – I guess what I researched it was – the eggs of the worms – the hook worms and the round worms. AA: Abraham, District – 5. So, yeah, it just comes out from like the – kidney worms come out and they just kind cruise up behind the tenderloins so where anybody in the public – once your dispatch ‘em and you take it out and you test it and stuff or when you’re deboning ‘em – once you take out the back tenderloins you going see like – you can see the worms like it’s kind of long – not – maybe like an inch and a half long and the majority of the time they’re like black and white or kind of like tannish, greyish looking worms, kind of like they’re ringed, they’re ringed around they’re not striped they’re kind of like ringed. AG: Right. Another thing too is when you – as soon as you cut it open, and you go to pull the gut out – you can see that intestines, and there’s a white spots in the intestines like round like almost like air soft bee bees. AA: Right. AG: You can see the white spots in the intestines and you’re gonna smell like a gut – like a bowel smell cause the worms kind of leave scar tissue and the intestines leak so the pig almost going septic so that’s another reason why it’s not good to eat those kind of pigs as well and then the liver has these white spots too and a lot of scar tissue as well – that’s another sign right there to look for. NR: Natalie, District – 7. In regards, to the worm issue that you guys are having in your district – so far, we have not or I have not seen it in District – 7 from pigs or cows so thankfully that hasn’t hit here. The feral cat issue is definitely a big problem for us over here, especially in my neighborhood. But do you think this is something that’s like going to be going from district to districts with the worms. AG: We gotta make sure people aren’t dumping their sick pigs in hunting areas. NR: Yeah. AG: That’s how it’s gonna transfer. We take one dead pig and I go drive to the next district over and throw ‘em in somebody’s yard and a pig’s gonna go eat it – it’s gonna spread like wildfire. I would recommend, bury the pig if you can – which a lot of people are not gonna do – but most pigs are not in lava fields so if you’re gonna dump a carcass go drive to one lava field and throw ‘em in the lava field and throw lava rocks on top of it – stack it – cause it’s gonna dry out and 7 cure it – in the sun, the hot sun, it’s gonna kill all the worms in the lava. We don’t want carcasses all over our lava flows but if we can dump ‘em – but we’re not supposed to dump carcasses in the dumpster either so, I mean, what do we do. But I personally dump my pigs on my own property, but I live on a lava field it kinda works for me – I have the machine, I did the hole, and then I… That’s the best way to keep it under control. AA: OK. Thanks, Austin. RD: Nice one. LT: Mahalo. AA: District – 7, Natalie? NR: Aloha, Natalie Reynolds, District – 7. I am currently working on the manta rays tabling it for this month – reaching out to DOBOR to have them try and speak and then hopefully wrap everything up and present it to you guys by April. 5. OLD BUSINESS: a. GMAC Quarterly Report to Mayor Roth and County Council. AA: The report did not make it out in time within the 7 days, tabled this item till next month. 6. NEW BUSINESS: a. Commissioner open discussion on hunting/fishing State and Federal funding. AA: We need a motion to have a discussion about this issue. LT: Leomana, District – 3, I’d like to make a motion to have a discussion on the federal funding for hunting and fishing. AA: \[Unclear\] Sylvia? SW: Ah, not quite. The motion can’t be – so the motion has to be for a particular direction and for a particular action to be taken so before we get into the motion though, I’ll give a little preference so – my understanding is that this particular agenda item is being offered by Commissioner Duerr, District – 1. I did have a talk with him about what was proposed on the agenda item. My suggestion for the Commission is that based off of that discussion is potentially having GMAC – if you’re willing to – ask DLNR to present on what funds – I’m sorry – what were the two funds? AA: Abraham, District – 5. Pittman-Robinson and Dingle-Johnson. SW: Yes, present on those… 8 RD: There’s also other funds which includes boating special fund – includes highway tax rebate fund to boaters and the off-highway vehicle fund. SW: OK. So, it would appear, that the better motion – if you’re going to follow my suggestion – would be a motion for GMAC to contact DLNR to speak about these the funds. RD: A point well taken. I think we have a motion on the table… SW: We don’t have any motion right now. RD: I’d like to make a motion. I’d like to make a motion that we request – that we pursue inventory account and audit records for hunter/fisher and gatherer public funds – it will fill the public’s right to know. LT: Leomana, District 3, I’d like to second that motion. AA: Open for discussion. SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. As far as that particular motion the initial motion another copy of Commissioner Duerr’s proposal? ?: \[Unclear\] SW: So the request to inventory account and audit records for hunter/fisher and gatherer public funds – just those particular items appear to be outside of the powers and authorities of GMAC which is to advise – sorry – I brought up the Charter on my phone – however, you can – that’s why the suggestion is that you – you have to bring it back to the county and you effect on the county – so my understanding after speaking to you Mr. Duerr was that these particular funds are federal funds and they are dispatched to the State through our DLNR is that correct? RD: Right. They’re through grants. SW: Through grants… RD: And then from DLNR it comes to Hawaii County. SW: So, it would appear, that if you want to gather this type of information the agency that should be contacted should be DLNR. RD: No, ah, no, the funds are actually federal funds, and the federal funds have audit requirements that are conducted on a regular basis – once every three years – once every 5 years… SW: Ok, and so what’s the point of the audit records to the county? RD: The point of the audit records to the county is so that we can see what funds are available in the state and then contract what funds are coming to the County of Hawaii. SW: OK. So then why wouldn’t you just ask the state agency that has those funds how much funds are coming to the county from the federal government. 9 RD: We would ask both – you see that would be in the process of inventory. So, the first thing we would do is find out what funds are available, and then what we would do is we would see to like say finding funds that are coming from DLNR for example and then go to the federal funding sources and then get their records. And then what we’re gonna do is quite frankly we’re gonna match – we’re gonna check and balance. So the first thing we want to do is find out how much money is coming to the State of Hawaii, how much money comes to the County and how it’s being used. SW: OK. And again, how is that related back to what GMAC does – which is advise the county, state and federal agencies regarding matters relating to preservation, subsistence hunting/fishing as well as protecting traditional cultural gathering rights? RD: Well, what we just – how that would help – for example, when District – 6 brought up a problem of sick animals which may in fact affect public health – right – the first question that would be asked – was the Wildlife Division of DOFAW – do they have a biologist that’s on this? 1) do they have a plan that states – they know how many animals are in District – 6, they know the conditions of those animals, and that there’s a problem – what is the problem, what is the solution? Quite frankly, Corporation Counsel, there is no plan. There is no plan – there is no game management plan – so hunters and fishers and gatherers have been asking for years for a plan to address just this issue. SW: I understand but your request to obtain an inventory account of the records won’t give you that information. The information you’re asking is… RD: We want to know – we’re following the money. What we would like to do is understand what are the funds? We want to understand what are the funds and quite frankly we want to do – we want to do it as a public commission. SW: OK. Well then you would better be suited to talk to our local arm which is DLNR… RD: Sorry, Corporation Counsel – you’re not a member of this Commission – you know the Commission – you’re here to advise – if you – I received your note today but quite frankly if it’s the county’s position that we do not ask for public records… SW: That’s not the county’s position. RD: OK. Great. Then… SW: But what I’m saying is that your particular item that you’re seeking which is to inventory account and audit records is outside of your authority as outlined in GMAC. AG: Austin Griffey here, District – 6. Isn’t one thing we get to do is investigate? SW: So, you can gather information so that you can – so the first portion – to pursue an understanding that is naturally a part of what you guys do because you have to pursue an understanding in order to advise but the going further to inventory account and audit – that is 10 beyond, that is definitely beyond. So, I’m not saying you can get information in order to pursue an understanding but… RD: Great. That’s what we want, we want information. SW: But your request for information has to be in this particular pocket – which is under Section 9- 9.3, 6-9.3 of the Hawaii County Charter. Right, so it’s got to come back to the county, it’s got to be county specific and it’s gotta be related specifically to game management preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing as well as protecting traditional and cultural… AA: Yes, Abraham, District – 5. So that’s exactly what it is. We want to investigate the funding that’s coming to the County of Hawaii and that funding is specifically making sure that it’s being used for hunting and fishing and not using it for invasive species or endangered species which it’s not supposed to be used for – it’s only supposed to be used for protecting our game and… SW: I can’t answer the question as it supposed to be used for because you have to look at the various authorities for the grants, but I do think that you, I do think that there is an avenue forward in that – this Commission – you ask for documents from DLNR but because you want to maintain a good working relationship with DLNR… AA: Yes… SW: ….what I would suggest is that you first ask them to present to GMAC as to their use of fundings for our county and then that can be your avenue forward. RD: And then how about calling the Fish & Wildlife. Can we request audits? SW: You cannot request audits. RD: Why – that’s a public record. Why can’t we request public records that are generated by hunting and fishing tax licenses in federal trust funds. SW: You can request documents, that’s fine. RD: Would that be a document that we could request? SW: You can request documents, but it has to be again – you have to be able to narrow it to what the Commission does within the Charter – so you have to have a specific purpose. RD: Conservation… SW: You have to have a specific purpose that is enlisted in to why you’re asking for a particular document – to what end? RD: We don’t know that yet. We want to count the money. Money has been spent, it has been audited – we’d like to see the audits and we’d like to see the records. That’s all we’re asking for. We’re making no decisions on how this is affecting the county or how the future can be better for the county fishers, hunters and gatherers. 11 AG: Then we can advise them where to better spend their money. SW: That’s the thing though – you cannot dictate where they spend their money. It’s more of if there’s a problem you can give them a solution - that’s advice. AA: There you g find the problem first. SW: Well, that’s what I’m saying is that your guys needs to \[unclear\] a problem that you can address. RD: Thank you, that’s exactly what we want to do. ?: Investigate to get in first. SW: You need to break it down. LT: The problem is we don’t have data on the finances of the overall system and the system from the Department of Land and Natural Resources has 100% been corrupt up until today. So, we’re missing the financial data… SW: They do publish financials yearly on their website. LT: OK. SW: So, I think that that should be your first avenue is to look at those financials and then figure out from there. AA: OK. Abraham, District – 5. So can, instead may I make a motion to create a PIG to investigate… SW: It sounds like you should identify what funds you want to look at first. RD: Inventory is the first – these are, these are steps. First thing we want to do is inventory. What funds are out there? SW: OK. So then why don’t you create the PIG first for the inventory. AA: There you go… NR: Natalie, District – 7, sorry, I’ll pause. Yes, Abraham. AA: Then have a motion… RD: No, no, what, what – OK, go ahead. AA: ….to find out the inventory of the funding of the Pittman-Robinson fund and Dingle Johnson, boating, recreation and other \[unclear\]. SW: Those three, fine. 12 RD: I’d like to make… Abraham maybe \[unclear\]. Maybe what we do is to look to any funds that benefit hunters, fishers and gatherers that are county, state or federal – that we get an inventory of what those funds are – of what those accounts are. SW: That’s a bit too broad. So you can break it down to funds that are issued to the state, to the county – so you can say I want to find an accounting of the funds that are being used in the county. RD: You know, Chair… Pursuant to the conversation that I had with corporation counsel, I’d like to table this motion. I’d like to take where we are with this – she’s on the record with her understanding – she’s clearly trying to, you know, we’ll have minutes here that – of this meeting – I’d like to take these minutes and this place where we’re at and I’d like to get an opinion from the Office of Information Practice and I’d like the Office of Information Practice to also run this issue in front of the Attorney General’s office to get an opinion on just where our Commission stands with seeking the records of public funds that are generated for the benefit of citizens or hunter/fisher/and gatherer – I’d like to table this and I’d like to bring this up for an opinion in the Office of Information Practice going on to the Attorney General. SW: I never said that you couldn’t request records. You’re creating a PIG – your PIG needs to be specific in order to comply with Sunshine – there needs to be parameters. That’s what we’re setting up is the parameters of your PIG. RD: Great. I think \[unclear\]. AA: So again, let’s just make a PIG to start this investigation for the funding for Pittman-Robinson and Dingle- Johnson and the boating special fund. RD: And off highway OHV – off highway vehicles. AA: Yes… So that before we do anything, before we go any further, so… can someone make a motion cause I asked for a motion, I not making it myself. The motion – I’m asking for a motion to pursue the understanding inventory for Pittman-Robinson Fund, Dingle-Johnson, Off Road Highway Fuel and the Boating Special funds. Action: L. Turalde motioned to create (PIG) an understanding of the Pittman-Robinson grants, Dingle- Johnson, grants, Boating Special Fund, and Off Highways Vehicle Fund as it relates to our County. Seconded by A. Griffey. Motion carried by unanimously by poll voice vote. LT: Leomana, District – 3, I’d like to make a motion to create an understanding of the Pittman- Robinson grants, and the other three that the Chair has mentioned. SW: Off Roading… LT: Off Roading, \[unclear\]… SW: Dingle-Johnson… 13 LT: Dingle Johnson… Sorry, I was… AG: Hopefully, funny he’s not watching… SW: And as it relates to the county… LT: As it relates to the county… Thank you. AG: Austin Griffey, District – 6. I’d like to second that motion. AA: \[Unclear\] OK. Roll call vote. LT: Leomana, District – 3, aye… AA: District – 2, absent; District – 4, absent; District – 5, here, aye… District – 6, Austin Griffey? AG: Aye. AA: District – 7, Natalie Reynolds? NR: Aye. AA: District – 9, absent. Five ayes, no nayes. Motion carries. So at this time we need to create a Chair for that PIG. Anybody want to step up and be the Chair? Robert Duerr is the Chair, and we need 3 Commissioners. AG: \[Unclear\] as well, District – 6, Austin Griffey. AA: Is that a total of 3 or? SW: You got three. AA: OK. Any members from the public want to join in – public I see Dexter and Sam Song. That’s five. OK. NR: Natalie, District – 7. Did you get enough? AA: And even if we didn’t, I think Brian will jump in and, I would have jumped in on this one – so, but we’re looking at three Commissioners per rules. And then two public members and Natalie you’re no longer a public member \[unclear\]. NR: I’ll just be a representative. 7. COMMITTEE REPORTS: a. Laupahoehoe Boat Ramp & Seawall 14 RD: OK. Teresa has a contacted the Army Corps. I heard from Maurice Messina who said there’s really no new movement on it – though he did say that Mayor Roth – this is a priority for him and then Teresa reached out to Army Corps and she may be able to fill us in on that. She’s on this Committee. TN: OK. I called the Army Corps of Engineers and spoke to Paul Harrow and he in turn who’s the project manager for all the projects on Oahu – he in turn informed me that Lindsay Plannerstill is th the person that’s in charge of the Laupahoehoe Ramp that they’re gonna start on the 18 and th 19 they have a meeting with the various parties here on the Big Island and hopefully whoever Mayor Mitch Roth has assigned to that project will be present and that’s when they’re gonna give us an update. There is a website and I’ll share it with Barbara that we can go into and that comes from Amy Bugala who is their PR person and she’ll be here on the Island also getting information and the update of what’s going on – when they’re starting of the improvement to Laupahoehoe Boat Ramp. Other than that – these are our contacts – they have no information thth to give us unless the meeting starts on the 18 and 19 and from there on will be hopefully – I thth also gave them contacts for - to the news station so that meeting on the 18 and 19 can be publicized and give us more information. Other than that – that’s all they could give me for now. AA: Thanks, Teresa, Abraham, District -5. Is there a way that either you or Bob or someone from you guys’ PIG could be included in that meeting and then come back and give us a report on that meeting? TN: Robert could attend. Cause the meeting is gonna be at Laupahoehoe at the boat ramp. AA: Ah, you and Robert is in contact with each other so just – I guess just give him the contact of that person or maybe you contact that person and make sure they have Robert’s information so they can contact and he can be invited or whatever to that meeting. thth TN: Right, the meeting is gonna be on the 18 and 19 of this month. That is tomorrow and Thursday. That’s their visit with the group of the Honolulu District and Pacific Ocean Division that is scheduled to meet with the Mayor’s staff, Lee Lord, Managing Director at 1:00 pm on th January 19 and that comes from Amy Phillips of the Public’s Affair. AA: OK. Thanks, Teresa. TN: Yeah. So, maybe we can ask Lee Lord to give us an update after their meeting, you know, if we can’t attend because it seems like only the top brass are meeting. We’d have to ask if we could attend. I would have to contact Lee Lord… SW: As to whether or not this is open to the public. TN: I have to ask. I don’t know. RD: Ah, Maurice gave me – what I could do is, you know, where it’s a county meeting – if he thinks it’s appropriate or he wants to just, you know, get us a report from it and he can figure out what’s \[unclear\]. 15 TN: Right. So, Amy Phillips is their Public Relations person and she will be at that meeting and she said she would give us an update after the meeting also. So Lindsey Plannerstill is the person that’s in charge of the project of the Boat Ramp there and she also – I have her contact number and everything and she said she would give us an update also in case none of us attend the meeting. AA: OK. Thanks, Teresa. RD: Thanks, Teresa. SW: Do we know what the meeting is called? Do they have a title for the meeting? AA: Teresa – Abraham, District – 5. Teresa did they have a title for that meeting? Or is it just Laupahoehoe Boat – Seawall, Boat Ramp meeting? TN: OK. Can you hear me? AA: Yes. TN: All he said is Laupahoehoe Harbor Boat Ramp. AA: Thank you. TN: OK. Thank you. Oh, I’m sorry. What I did and I asked Lindsey is for the Project Manager’s name – contact number of the project site – scope of the project at Laupahoehoe – length of the project and target completion date and is there – I asked them is there a website that can be shared with public on the updates of the project, and she said all those questions can be answered so waiting to hear from them. Thank you. b. Laynet Rules & Regulations AA: Thank you. Moving on to 7b. Laynet Rules and Regulations. RD: Now, you know, ah, Chair? Representative Duerr. Now didn’t we like finish that up with a letter – did the letter ever go out? SW: I, um, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. My understanding is is that this particular PIG had been completed at the last meeting with the submission of Mr. Duerr’s letter as it was approved by the Commission, so I think this is an error. AA: OK. \[Unclear\] sign that letter? SW: It’s provided to the Mayor’s Office and they, yeah, they’ll do what \[unclear\] outcome. It’s subject to – so I’m not sure \[unclear\]. AA: I guess, Barbara, if you can check up on that letter and recommendation. 16 c. Legislative AA: OK. Ah, Legislative, ah, we’ve so far and it’s not been introduced yet but, ah, we have, ah, it doesn’t even have a number or anything yet it’s just a… HB related to… SW: Ah, HB number… ?: Yeah. SW: OK. AA: Do you guys have that HB number? It’s basically about game management in the public hunting areas – we going be looking into this one. It’s being introduced by Mark Nakashima – District – 1, representative. You guys all read this HB? Any discussion on this one? RD: Ah, Chair. Did Mark give you any feedbacks on this? AA: Ah, he just was asking more about – he kinda asked about our input on this particular potential bill – that’s why we have it – it was passed down through his office. RD: Right. And this bill came from where? AA: From Mark – this came from Rep. Mark Nakashima. RD: So, but I mean - who introduced it? Who was the…? AA: On this one - I’m not sure. SW: So, it appears that – you say he’s a House Representative? So, it appears that he’s asking for an affirmative response from GMAC so this would be appropriate for you guys to devise a letter… AA: Yes. SW: ….in response to send back to him specifically. AG: Abraham, Austin, District – 6, what is that bill there that you’re talking about? I never got it. AA: It was in the email packet. If it’s not in the email packet it’s gonna be on the County website under the Game Management folder for this meeting. AG: OK. RD: You know, Chair, District – 1, Duerr – in talking – for example how this all pulls together with funding in relationship to the County – in talking with Chair Kimball of the County Chair Kimball one thing she was wondering is in dealing with nuisance animals would it be possible for the County, for example, to buy traps and have them deployed? AA: OK. No. 17 RD: What I told her was what the Chair told us at the beginning that this is a very – experts only – but one thing that could possibly happen is that game cameras could possibly be provided by the County to persons who suspected that they had problem pigs. Those game cameras could be then put in place and then the populations of game mammals would be able to be tracked and inventoried and then at that point when there’s a problem that could be put over into a bigger issue. SW: I’m sorry Mr. Duerr but we are way off topic on the agenda item, um, because what you had just proposed – although… RD: \[Unclear\] I’m just saying this is what a game management plan does. SW: I understand but, I mean, we’re not, right now we’re talking about House Bill number question mark which would amend 183 d. of the Hawaii Revised statutes. RD: OK. And how doesn’t it apply? SW: Because this is talking about… RD: Game Management plans… SW: About, yes, but this – what you’re talking about is not this specific bill or the contents of this bill. RD: Exactly, but why this bill is needed because we don’t have a bill – one – we don’t have an inventory of populations of game animals and two we can’t pinpoint problem areas and three we can’t solve solutions. AA: OK. Abraham, District – 5. So, far we had in the past that meeting was not recorded – we had Melissa Price and we can bring her back and she’s from the university and they were investigating or looking into, right, Leomana? LT: Yeah. AA: The populations of what you’re asking for like they already worked on Kauai, Oahu – they’re actually here now – that’s pretty much what we said – so that question is being… RD: \[Unclear\] AA: …. looking into that so we can bring her back because that meeting was not recorded and this is still kinda off so that’s kinda like \[unclear\]… AG: Austin here – District – 6, so what we’re trying to prove is that the numbers have not risen in the palila birds since their eradication efforts to knock down the sheep. AA: We not on that one yet, um… AG: That’s what the bill is, right, though, with the palila birds? Is we’re trying to stop the eradication? 18 AA: Also, for this bill we need – we pushing this bill – we support this bill because of the simple fact that the State of Hawaii – the only state that does not have a game management plan so this is like the beginning to getting that game management plan because without a game management plan this is, and this is not just here – but let’s look at Maui and Lanai and Molokai – with flocks of deer and flocks of pigs that we’re having here on the Island of Hawaii and even on Oahu so this is why we need to support this game management or this beginning of this game management plan process through the legislature. SW: Well, ah, so at this point in time you have before you a draft bill… AA: Yes… SW: ….provided by a representative – the question before you is comments so at this point in time GMAC could review the contents of what is being proposed and can provide advice as to areas within this particular bill as to what can be strengthened, what might work, what might work better. That is open to discussion right now before you. AA: Yes, that’s open to discussion from - from the – to the Commissioners. SW: And it sounds like perhaps the Commissioners need more time to review this \[unclear\]. AG: I’ve read it – I’m in full support of it – Austin, District – 6. I think we need to start cracking down on this, for sure, if we can. AA: Yeah, because he’s gonna be introducing this bill probably or maybe it might even be introduced already with a number, I’m not sure, but we can have a letter drafted up because last day – opening day is tomorrow and the last day for bills is January 20, which is Friday… SW: To be introduced… AA: Yeah, the last day for bills to be introduced is January… SW: So, um, I understand if you want to entertain a motion about being in support of the bill, it’s just that I’m sure that it would be more beneficial for the representative if he could know more specifics as to items that you are particularly in support of or not in support of or otherwise… AA: OK. We already have \[unclear\] Natalie support OK so… SW: Do you want me to read it? AA: Go ahead. Thank you very much. SW: I just figured you might want a break. AG: You don’t want to read the bill to us? AA: Ah, I’m gonna have my corporation counsel it makes it official. 19 SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan – I will be reading into the record a bill for an act – this is proposed legislation that is yet to be introduced, I mean, relating to hunting and being enacted by the legislature of the State of Hawaii. SECTION 1. Chapter 183D, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part I to be appropriately designated and to read as follows: “§183D – Game management areas; public hunting areas; plan. (a) The department shall develop a comprehensive plan for the management of game management areas and public hunting areas. The plan shall be in accordance with the principles and goals established in section 183D-2 (3) and shall provide for: (1) The monitoring of game mammals and game bird populations to ensure the populations are at levels sufficient for hunting; (2) Habitat improvements for game mammals and game birds to ensure those species have sufficient food, water, and refuge; (3) The preservation of game management areas; provided that the plans shall ensure that whenever existing lands in game management areas are removed or fenced off for conservation or other purposes, alternative lands of equivalent quality are added to the State’s inventory of game management area lands; (4) Where appropriate, the use of grazing and browsing game mammals for the purpose of grass and weed control that benefits native ecosystems; (5) The establishment or expansion of youth and adult programs to promote hunting; (6) The establishment or expansion of programs to inform the public on the proper handling and preparation of wild-caught meat; (7) Increased access to game management areas and public hunting areas, including through the addition of available parking; (8) Increased availability of and greater access to meat inspection sites and slaughter units for wild-caught meat, including sites for certified public hunters pursuant to section 183D -; and (9) The establishment of incentives for local businesses to market wild game meat. (b) The department shall post the game management plan on its website and shall submit a copy of the plan to the legislature no later than twenty days prior to the convening of the regular session of 2025. The department shall update the game management plan at least once every five years thereafter and shall submit a copy of the revised plan to the legislature no later than twenty days prior to the convening of the regular session of 2030 and every fifth regular session thereafter.” 20 SECTION 2. Chapter 183D, Hawaii Revised Statutes, is amended by adding a new section to part II to be appropriately designated and to read as follows: “§183D- Certified public hunter program; feral pig control. (a) The board shall establish a certified public hunter program, which shall: (1) Establish a process to certify licensed hunters having the expertise to safely and humanely control the population of feral pigs on private property and in residential areas; provided that the board shall establish requirements and procedures for certification by rule; (2) Maintain a registry of certified public hunters; (3) Facilitate the connection of certified public hunters with private landowners who wish to remove feral pigs from their property; (4) Authorize certified public hunters to take, catch, pursue, or kill feral pigs on the property of private landowners pursuant to paragraph (3); (5) Implement ways to subsidize or supplement the costs of certified public hunters participating in the program; and (6) Recommend and implement habitat improvements in game management areas to draw feral pigs out of residential areas for purposes of hunting. (b) Notwithstanding chapter 134 to the contrary, a certified public hunter acting under the authority of subsection (a) (4) may use a licensed firearm solely for the purpose of safely and humanely dispatching trapped wild pigs; provided that the board shall adopt rules to regulate the use of firearms under this subsection. (c) The board may adopt rules pursuant to chapter 91 necessary to implement this section. (d) As used in this section, “certified public hunter” means a hunter who is certified pursuant to subsection (a) (1).” SECTION 3. The department of land and natural resources shall submit a report to the legislature no later than twenty days prior to the convening of the regular session of 2024 that includes: (1) A summary of the department’s progress in creating the plan for the management of game management areas and public hunting areas; (2) A summary of the board’s progress in establishing a certified hunter program; 21 (3) Findings and recommendations, including any proposed legislation, to: (A) Subsidize or supplement the costs of certified public hunters participating in the certified hunter program; (B) Increase the availability of and access to meat inspection sites and slaughter units for wild-caught meat; (C) Create incentives for local businesses to market wild game meat; SW: And that appears to be the end of the bill’s verbiage. AA: Abraham, District – 5. With that being said… RD: Isn’t there a page 6? SW: Ah, so the rest is just talking about the title or general… \[Unclear\] DE: Abraham, excuse me. Dexter – get page 6 and two more pages. AA: Get page 6 and page 7 but like corporation counsel just said that’s just… SW: It’s a report title and a description – it’s not the actual text of the bill. AA: It’s just like political \[unclear\] SW: Did I miss? Oh, I’m missing that page… Thank you, sorry, I will continue reading then. After subsection C there is subsection D: (D) Establish or expand youth and adult programs that promote hunting; (E) Instruct the public on the proper handling and preparation of wild-caught meat; and (F) Increase access to game management and public hunting areas, including through the addition of available parking; and (4) Any other findings, recommendations, and proposed legislation. SECTION 4. There is appropriated out of the general revenues of the State of Hawaii the sum of $______ or so much thereof as may be necessary for fiscal year 2023-2024 and the same sum or so much thereof as may be necessary for fiscal year 2024-2025 to establish a certified public hunter program pursuant to section 2 of this Act. 22 The sums appropriated shall be expended by the department of land and natural resources for the purposes of this Act. SECTION 5. New statutory material is underscored. SECTION 6. This Act shall take effect on July 1, 2023. AA: Thank you very much for reading. SW: Well, I mean, just letting me know what I missed. AA: Abraham, District – 5. I personally have a problem with Section A… \[SECTION 1.\] (4) Where appropriate, the use of grazing and browsing game mammals for the purpose of grass and weed control that benefits native ecosystems;” So with Act 315 a sustainability bill that last year got passed, um, if DLNR comes back and says that bill is good but it’s kinda not that good because of that word “where appropriate” comes in – let’s just say if it’s a critical habitat then the game animals wouldn’t be an appropriate area for them, right? It’s kinda like up Mauna Kea that they say that the sheep and the goats are not appropriate for that area because of the palila bird, right, so just because that word “appropriate” I don’t really support that word. AG: Got to get rid of that word. AA: Other than that we’re, you know, just all throughout this bill they’re saying they’re just saying feral game this feral pig that, um, as per a game management plan I don’t want it to be feral… AG: Feral… AA: ….I don’t just want it to be this is just like a pure attack on pigs again like everything else. This game management plan cannot be just an attack on pigs – it’s got to be for all game animals – it’s a game management plan – it’s not an attack of feral pigs \[unclear\] control the population of feral pigs \[unclear\]. LT: Leomana, District – 3. I agree with what Chair is saying because the last year when we went to Oahu to talk to, you know, all these politicians from around the state – they had – the people who call in – usually call in about feral pigs. In the city that’s all they have – feral pigs – and the people who have a lot of money they grumble the most and so I agree – we should have, you know, I mean highlight feral pigs because that’s the most of all the people’s issues but we need… AA: Oh, it’s not necessary to highlight the feral – this bill is for a game management plant – this is not one bill for manage feral pigs. 23 LT: Um-hum… AA: This is like to manage all of them… LT: Yeah. AA: ….so sheep, goats, deer, pigs, fish, birds – all game animals. LT: Do you want to take out specific animals… AA: Oh, just take out “feral pig” and put… LT: Game animals… AA: ….in game mammals. SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. So, I understand what you’re saying – it sounds like you’re just taking issue with SECTION 2 of the bill where it’s talking about Certified public hunter program, feral pig control? Because it does not appear that SECTION 1 specifically as I’m browsing it doesn’t specifically talk about feral pigs it’s only under the section of Certified public hunter program – is there a way that you could suggest that might better it? RD: Yeah, one way to – this actually there’s two bills here. Essentially, the game management plan is the strategic overview. And the Certified public hunter is a tactic in the program and then quite frankly it gets in trouble on line 6 \[SECTION 1.\] where it says, “a comprehensive plan for the management of game management areas and public hunting areas,” but then it goes on to talk a later – so you’re only dealing with – unless it’s a game management area or public hunting area we’ve got no kuleana. LT: \[Unclear\] control. RD: Yeah, yeah, so you’re then into a certified public hunting program which is in residential neighborhoods. So that needs to be cleaned up of like and you simply can clean it up by just go to management of game… SW: I’m sorry, what page are you on? RD: On page 1, number 6. SW: OK. AA: Management - Game management areas; public hunting areas; plan. RD: I guess I would just eliminate Game management areas - for the management of game animals in public hunting areas, you know… AA: Yeah… 24 LT: Cause we’re not \[unclear\] to the management areas anyway, right? We’re Game Management Advisory Commission – on game – not geo location, right, so we’re not just a game management area – we’re a Commission that advises on all game in Hawaii \[unclear\]. SW: Well, yeah, that’s correct – that’s our mission, however, they’re trying to use the term over a specific area. According to this particular bill – they’re talking about game animal management areas – so it sounds like they’re trying to talk about specific areas that are delineated for this particular purpose in the bill. AA: Right. So, there’s other like Mauna Kea… ?: Yeah. AA: \[Unclear\] they actually changed that other one and made it a conservation area. There’s other GMAs on the in this county ordinance that state. \[Unclear\] I know \[unclear\] GMA that was turned to conservation. So that’s within our, actually, that’s – it’s within the game management area – so we’re an advisory to the game management… SW: Areas \[unclear\]. AA: \[Unclear\] great… SW: As long as \[unclear\] AA: OK. Yeah. \[Unclear\] but you guys \[unclear\] and then that’s what corporation counsel says \[unclear\] county council because this bill – this one handle the palila one – but the palila one is just this Island specific and it’s a resolution but this does just not affect the County of Hawaii – this affects the State of Hawaii. LT: OK. Yeah. AA: So you guys got to keep that in mind as well. NR: Natalie… AA: That’s why I’m saying not just pigs – they just like emphasizing feral pig \[unclear\]. LT: And that’s not even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is right now deer and goats. AA: It’s all – no it’s just all game management, I mean, all game mammals is the problem because we do not have – the State of Hawaii doesn’t have a game management plan. AG: Eh, Abraham, Austin… NR: Natalie… AG: Oh, she can go first. Go ahead Natalie. NR: No you go Austin. 25 AG: On page 2, number 9 \[SECTION 1.\] I don’t really agree with that: The establishment of incentives for local businesses to market wild game meat. I think that’s gonna open up a lot of people starting to try and catch animals to sell to the public and it’s gonna eliminate a lot of the food source itself – I’m – for me I’m not one to sell things that can be caught. Cause it’s wild game, you know, it’s not meant for sale. AA: I think that part comes under – Abraham, District – 5, it comes under where like they say our freezers are full already and, you know, full of deer and full of \[unclear\] – there’s nothing else to do with it, right, because, you know, Maui is having this problem that everybody’s ice boxes is full so what you going do with the rest of the meat? You going just dig a hole and bury ‘em? AG: No, but the thing with Maui is they’re knocking down all the numbers and they’re gonna sell ‘em and then they’re gonna sell out and then they’re not going to have any more animals because it’s a never ending – they’re not re-releasing animals they’re just killing, killing, killing, killing to where it’s extinct – they’re just gone. AA: You’re right. But that’s where the game management comes in and that’s where your rules come in and that’s where the game take come in on bag limits and stuff, right? So, it’s all part of the game management or just general rules, hunting rules itself. AG: Cause, I know I would be pissed if I seen a guy that I know locally selling meat in my neighborhood going around and catching pigs and taking food off, of my table and selling ‘em – that’s how I would… AA: You basically had that already when you guys had the goat round up down at Honaunau and then had some of the guys grabbing he goats from down there and sending ‘em off to Oahu, so… AG: Yeah, I don’t agree with that either – the selling of the wild animals period. AA: Right. AG: If you’re gonna sell it you have to own the property – you have to own the animal. You cannot go on public land and catch pigs and sell ‘em. That’s not right. AA: Yeah. AG: Cause then we gonna have guys going Mauna Kea and shooting ten sheep and making longanisa sausage and selling ‘em on the side of the road and then we’re all going be going hunting – where’s all our sheep at? Cause I see it already. AA: Well, if you know they doing that already and, um, other than that, you know, same thing with the cattle – I know get guys, you know, cattle rustling out in Kau I heard recently and making hamburger and selling so that’s like one big thing and get plenty guys going up on DHHL land up on Mauna Kea, I mean, if using the resource as a sustainable resource like you really using it to provide for your family but if you’re going out and you’re selling it then that’s, that’s a whole different thing in itself, but you’re still kind of supporting your family… 26 AG: Cause if we open up that legal lane to where we can sell wild animals we going get this influx of mainlanders coming over here and catching all our animals just for sale – cause that’s what happened to the guy on Maui – Maui Nui Venison. Those guys is just killing everything and selling ‘em all over the whole world and they taking food out of people’s mouths, I mean, and then they get the contract for hunt one certain area that many people used to be able to go hunt and then since they got the contract, now the homeowner’s getting paid money so those guys cannot go hunt there anymore because they not gonna pay. That’s definitely one big issue. AA: Move to Natalie real quick cause we got like half an hour more and we still get couple more things so Natalie… I see you Dexter, hold on. NR: Natalie, District – 7, I just wanted to say was it re-evaluate every five years for the population? SW: Yeah. NR: I don’t agree with that – I think it should be re-evaluated every year by a biologist because five years is too expensive. LT: Leomana, District – 3. I don’t agree – I kinda agree with what you’re saying it should be re- evaluated – I don’t agree with the biologist part – the biologist they don’t – I’d rather have Austin over here \[unclear\] biologist don’t really know anything about the land and the animals. But I agree that it should be sooner than five years because the natural cycles is of animals – they react than five years – the migration of animals across our lands happen in days and lands and private properties they put up fences everyday – they’ve fenced off all of the mountains within a couple of months and so I agree they shouldn’t take five years to look over these plans cause in two years… ‘ AA: Two years should be sufficient… LT: Two years could be sufficient enough I think because the \[unclear\] rates of all of our wild game, you know, the pigs repopulate the fastest and I guess according to the wild – the pig experts – we should go according to how the pigs repopulate in the wild. AG: Austin, District – 6, here… The thing with the animals is their migration is lunar so it happens same month, same time every year, so one month you could have a thousand animals inside this unit and the next month there could be five animals in this unit. So if they’re fencing off the areas, which they are, then they cannot migrate – the migrational pattern gets messed up. Some of the private properties that I used to get to hunt before – that border national park got fenced off so now the animals cannot come in there – they got trapped in that area – killed off – so it’s definitely lunar, it should be every two years at the minimum, I think, so we can off balance that one-year rotation to see what new animals are coming into the area. NR: \[Unclear\] two years \[unclear\] too much and I think that’s \[unclear\]. AA: Yeah, go ahead Dexter. SW: Oh, sorry… 27 NR: You need to unmute yourself… AA: Hold on Dexter, hold on… DE: Oh, no. Oh, no. AA: How you doing? DE: OK. I wanted to say like how Austin was saying about selling of the meat – before you guys go ahead and approve this check the HRS statutes because there is a law – a hunting law – that no wild game removed from game management areas may be offered for sale. So you need to clear that off too before you go ahead and propose this. Just a reminder if you guys forgot, yeah? Thank you. AA: Thank you. RD: Chair – quite frankly you’re got two bills here and the first bill – I agree with Austin – I think quite frankly from 4 to 9 can all be struck. Those were all programs that would be dictated by a game management plan. And then… SW: I’m sorry. Just for clarification – I think that’s what they’re saying is these points \[SECTION 1.\] (a) (1) thru (9) is points that are going to be included in the game management plan. RD: Notwithstanding, if you strike \[SECTION 1.\] from (4) to (9) - that you keep (b) and SECTION 2 and then Certified Public Hunter Program – it’s a separate bill. And quite frankly the other note is that feral pig should not be feral pig – it should be puaa. The name of the animal is puaa and it needs to respect of the traditions and the culture and the Kamapuaa was a demi-god, respected. So that’s basically my two cents on this. AA: Real quick, but back to the whole pig thing – with this plan – I don’t think they should be calling it feral pig, puaa, or anything. That wording right there should just state “game.” RD: Right. You’re right. \[Unclear\] certified public hunting… AA: \[Unclear\] RD: Your Certified Public Hunter Program is basically looking, you know, game managers that could on to nuisance areas and take nuisance pigs out. SW: OK. So, um, you’re saying it should not be feral pig it should be “game animals?” AA: Yeah. SW: All right. So it sounds like you’re coming to a consensus as to what you guys agree on so if you’re going to provide input to this particular legislator it would be good to devise what is your consensus and assign somebody to write the letter proposed. But right now… 28 AG: Do we need to make a motion? SW: Yeah. So, it sounds like you guys need to make a motion as to build your consensus. I’m just gonna give you what I’m hearing. You guys can divide your motion. Based on your discussion from what I’m hearing there appears to be a consensus around subsection – SECTION 1. – it could be a separate bill from SECTION 2. That, um, I’m not sure if there is a consensus under SECTION 1. numbers (4) - (9), whether that should or should not be a part of the game management plan – that’s something for you to discuss. There does appear to be a consensus that under SECTION 1. (b) that the game management plan should be at least every 2 years… AA: Yeah… SW: …. that is more in line with game populations and then as for SECTION 2. regarding feral pig control you would prefer it not be just centered on feral pigs but on game animals. I’m turning it back to the Commission for a motion. AA: OK. RD: Should it be nuisance game animals on private property for the certified public program? AA: A motion? AG: That’s a lot to say for a motion. Um, Austin Griffey, District – 6, can I make a motion to draft a letter giving our concerns about this bill and some alterations we would like to make to this bill or do I have to specifically say which. SW: You can do the motion to draft the letter and then you can discuss it on to what (unclear). RD: OK. I’ll second the motion to draft the letter. AA: So, discussion again. So, my only discussion is the problem – it still comes down to the problem that we talked about before. We have this meeting tonight. It’s basically looking for a faster way to skip some processes which you going tell me no but I still going ask the question anyway because… AG: When does the bill go through? AA: Because we’re doing this whole process right now. The last day to file is on Friday for them to put it in on Friday. SW: Yes, but just because he files it doesn’t mean he can’t amend it. AA: OK. SW: That’s what I’m saying – you can still draft them – even if he files this in 3 days… AA: Yeah? 29 SW: He can still amend this… AA: So but that’s the problem that I’m having and I’m pretty sure everyone else is like is this process is so long but since you say that he can amend it then OK. But, so, we just gotta – we going draft one letter to this guy – we also need to draft a letter to the Mayor per our findings because, you know, we’re our \[unclear\] Mayor. So, um, what we support and what we don’t support on this particular bill then we can go back and re-amend it and we gotta look at it again and re-write everything all over again. SW: Yeah, but the bill might be amended to not only include your input… AA: But everybody else’s… SW: But everybody else’s input and so you might differ on suggestions. AA: Yeah, OK. SW: Yes, yes. Now your letter to this particular representative can be more or less the same as your letter to the Mayor. AA: OK. Continue. RD: \[Unclear\] or a second which is to draft a letter – so just simply draft a letter. So, discussion over – can we call for a vote? AA: Is the discussion over – anybody else? SW: So, I think the discussion is what is the contents of your letter. RD: I think one, do we get the letter? Or we’re just going consensus now. So, do we have consensus to do a letter? AA: Yeah. SW: Yes, right now you’re building consensus on what is in the letter. RD: So, the letter would be – is this two separate bills. Is this game management and certified hunter bill – it’s two separate bills or is it just one bill? SW: So, I think – instead of pose, a question what is it you’re saying – you as GMAC are advising this particular representative that you need to separate it into two bills. RD: Correct. SW: So affirmative statement. AA: So, we are advising to \[unclear\] this particular bill up into two separate bills. We’re also advising the take out of “feral pigs” and put in “game…” 30 SW: Animals… AA: Game mammals… AG: Game mammals… SW: Mammals… AA: Mammals. We’re also advising for them to take a look per Dexter about if it’s still illegal or legal to sell wild game meat per Dexter and Austin. AG: Take out… AA: Go back… SW: You, um, on subsection (b) of SECTION 1. you were talking about changing… LT: The purpose of grass or grazing control to benefit, yeah, that one. AA: Right, right, right. LT: Yeah, that one and then \[unclear\] youth for \[unclear\] programs. It’s just – a lot of money’s \[unclear\] greater access and the last one was incentives. I didn’t get the definition of incentives – to me a big word but we should \[unclear\] I support that. SW: So, I think that’s the thing you should vote on is do you sub motion of this particular letter contents – is there a consensus to strike under \[SECTION 1.\] sub-section (a) (4) through (9)? ‘Cause I heard two voices for that but I don’t know if the entire Commission approves of that. Or rather… RD: To just make a motion on that? SW: That’s what I’m saying. LT: Yeah, a vote… RD: Yeah, I’d like to make a motion that in section 1 we strike four to nine. LT: Leomana, District – 3, I second that motion. NR: Did we just loose Austin? SW: I’m sorry I did miss that – we lost Austin. So we lost… That must be him. AG: Sorry guys, my phone died. I’m back on. ?: We just did a roll call vote… 31 AA: At least he still came in while the meeting was still happening… SW: Can you restate the motion \[unclear\] seconded… RD: Yeah, the motion is to take in Section 1 to strike four through nine on the game management side of the… LT: I second that motion and we’re just waiting for a roll call vote. AA: Any discussion? Seeing none… Roll call vote District – 1? Action: R. Duerr made a motion for the letter that in Section 1 we strike items four to nine. Seconded by L. Turalde. Motion carried unanimously by poll voice vote. ?: Aye. AA: District – 2, absent. District – 3? LT: Aye. AA: District – 4, absent. District – 5, aye. District – 6? AG: Aye. Yes, please. AA: District – 7? NR: Aye. AA: Five ayes no ayes… RD: What we have is advised to split the bill into two bills, 2) to add 2 years review of the game management plans. Delete federal – OK – on the second bill on the… SW: So we’re still under SECTION 1. (a) you’re deleting (4) – (9). Under SECTOPM, sorry, ah, SECTION 1. but subsection (b)… ?: (b)… SW: You’re changing five years to 2 years and then now under SECTION 2. which is proposing to be the separate bill – what are you doing? RD: Changing “feral pig” to “game animals.” SW: So you want to put that up – because you changed the verbiage you want to put that up to a vote? RD: One other thing too is it mentions the board which usually in these kind of discussions is the Land Board… 32 AA: Land Board…. RD: Right, but it’s never really specified but it’s just so… SW: I wouldn’t know until I looked specifically at §183D to know… AA: \[Unclear\] when you talk about the \[unclear\] the Board of Land and Natural Resources… SW: OK. RD: Split to two… AA: We don’t need to put a vote on that. RD: No. SW: Have you reached consensus on – cause you said you wanted to change “feral pigs” but… LT: Game mammals… AG: Game animals… SW: Game mammals… AA: Yeah. SW: OK. AG: Where it says appropriate too as well… SW: Where appropriate? AA: Yeah, that’s been struck down from second 4 to second 9. We just doing the game mammals things but everybody needs to be in consensus so if you support that and Natalie supports that because us three support that. AG: OK, yeah, I support that. Strike ‘em down. SW: OK. RD: Do we make a motion? LT: Just to clarify. Every time they put feral pig in all of our stuff from now on? SW: \[Unclear\] LT: Yeah, for the rest of this bill… 33 AA: Yeah. LT: OK. SW: OK. Action: R. Duerr motioned to split the bill into two separate bills that would include the game management plan and the Certified Public Hunter Program control as another bill. In addition, add 2-year review for the game management plan, delete all “feral pig” and add “game animals” to “game mammals” to that wording. Motion seconded by L. Turalde. Motion carried unanimously by voice poll vote. RD: So, make a motion to advise to split the bill into separate bills that which would include the game management plan as one bill and the Certified Public Hunter Program animal control \[unclear\] strike – Certified Public Hunter Program control as another bill. The second item is to add 2-year review for the game management plan, the third item is to delete all “feral pig” and add “game animals” to “game mammals” to that wording. And that’s what I have. AA: Roll call vote – District – 1, Robert Duerr. RD: Aye. SW: Well, you need a second. LT: Leomana – District 3, I second… NR: I second that motion… AA: Any discussion? Not seeing any – District – 1. RD: Aye. AA: ….absent. District – 3. LT: Aye. AA: District – 4, is absent. District – 5, aye. District – 6? AG: Aye. AA: District – 7? NR: Aye. AA: \[Unclear\] ?: Pass. 34 NR: Pass. AA: Voting passes. Five ayes, \[unclear\]. SW: Who’s gonna write your letter? AA: Robert Duerr RD: \[Unclear\] AG: Thank you. AA: The palila bill… SW: It’s a resolution. AA: Resolution, sorry. Requesting the Department of Land and Natural Resources to provide updated statistics and facts relating to the decline of palila on Mauna Kea and investigate the factors causing the decline of the palila population. What, where areas. SW: What’s that? AA: Where \[unclear\]. SW: I’m lost where you’re at. RD: It’s like donkey. Where as… AA: \[Unclear\] SW: I’m sorry, Chair. We have about 12 minutes left in this meeting. Would you like to move this one as it’s only a resolution to the next meeting? d. Manta Ray. (Tabled) e. Puuanahulu/Puuwaawaa Administrative Rules Change committee report. (Tabled) AA: Well, we get 12 minutes so the Puuanahulu/Puuwaawaa Administrative Rule Change – that one – nobody’s here from that committee to do that. I think maybe Natalie but she’s not the Chair and so other than that the Manta Ray Committee – Natalie can you do it real quick – a committee report on your manta ray thing. NR: I can just table that for next month. That’s totally fine or I would like to make a motion to table that for next month. SW: You might as well make that motion to table d. and e. 35 Action: N. Reynolds made a motion to table agenda item 7, d and e to next month. Seconded by L. Turalde. Motion carried unanimously by poll voice vote. NR: I’d like to make motion to table section d. and e. to next month. LT: I second that motion, Leomana, District – 3. AA: Discussion? None. Robert Duerr? RD: On what, tabling? AA: Tabling to next month… RD: Yeah, yeah. Aye. AA: District – 2, absent. District – 3, Leomana? LT: Aye. AA: District – 4, absent. District – 5, aye. District – 6, Austin? AG: Aye. AA: District – 7, Natalie? NR: Aye. AA: District 8 & 9 are absent. Five ayes, no nayes, motion passes. RD: Back track, though we don’t have time to review it – can we make a motion that we see that it has merit because we didn’t have time for her to make comment on it or is that enough – the fact that we just deferred it? With just deferred it without finding any… SW: No, I’m sorry. Just point of order, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. They jumped ahead on the agenda and now I believe they’re coming back just to make sure… AA: We get ten minutes. SW: Do you want me to read it? I’ll try to do it fast: WHERE AS, the palila bird is a rare and critically endangered species of honeycreeper that can only be found on certain slopes of Mauna Kea in the County of Hawaii; and WHEREAS, the palila has a close ecological relationship with the native mamane tree and it relies on those trees for food and nesting; and WHEREAS, in 1979, a lawsuit was filed against the Department of Land and Natural Resources, alleging that the Department was “taking” palila for purposes of the federal Endangered Species Act by maintaining sheep and goats in the palila’s critical habitat, which included all of Mauna Kea from an elevation of six thousand feet to ten thousand feet; and 36 WHEREAS, between 1979 and 1999, the United States District Court confirmed a mandate that the Department of Land and Natural Resources eradicate sheep and goats from the palila’s critical habitat; and WHEREAS, during that time, millions of dollars were spent on construction of fences and the eradication of sheep to comply with the order of the United States District Court; and WHEREAS, more than twenty-five thousand sheep have been eradicated, with fewer than three hundred remaining as of 2022; and WHEREAS, while efforts are made to salvage sheep meat, only about forty percent is typically recovered, leaving about sixty percent to rot or feed feral cats and mongoose, which are themselves a threat to the palila population; and WHEREAS, despite the eradication of sheep and restoration of mamane forests, only an estimated six hundred seventy-eight palila were counted in 2021; and WHEREAS, the routine cost of sheep eradication is expensive: in October 2022, $8,844.50 was spent to eradicate fifty-nine sheep; and WHEREAS, due to the court mandate, thousands of residents have lost access to an important source of subsistence hunting on Mauna Kea; and WHEREAS, the drastic reduction in sheep, combined with the recovery of vegetation on Mauna Kea, has resulted in an increase of vegetative fuel loads; and WHEREAS, wildfires on the slopes of Mauna Kea represent the most significant threat to palila and their habitat; and WHEREAS, recent fires have resulted in the destruction of approximately two hundred fifty acres of palila critical habitat; and WHEREAS, due to the threat of fire, the Board of Land and Natural Resources has proposed a fuel break expansion project on Mauna Kea, which will remove thirty-five acres of mature mamane, which is another example of costs resulting from the United States District Court’s mandate; and WHEREAS, despite the best efforts over the last forty years, the population of palila continues to be critically endangered; and WHEREAS, further investigations must be conducted to determine why current efforts have not resulted in recovery of the palila, and to identify new strategies to preserve this species; now, therefore, BE IT RESOLVED by the House of Representatives of the Thirty-second Legislature of the State of Hawaii, Regular Session of 2023, the Senate concurring, that the Department of Land and Natural Resources provide updated statistics and facts relating to the decline of palila on Mauna Kea; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Department of Land and Natural Resources investigate factors resulting in the decline of palila for purposes of recommending updated 37 strategies to preserve this species and updating the United States District Court’s sheep and goat eradication mandate; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Department of Land and Natural Resources is requested to submit a report of its findings and recommendations, including any proposed legislation, to the Legislature no later than twenty days prior to the convening of the Regular Session of 2024; and BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a certified copy of this Concurrent Resolution be transmitted to the Chairperson of the Board of Land and Natural Resources. AA: Abraham, District – 5. So this particular resolution – I read through the whole things, I supported it - I mean, I support it. SW: I think you need a motion Chair. Action: R. Duerr made a motion that the Game Management Advisory Commission supports this resolution regarding the palila bird. Seconded by L. Turalde. Motion carried unanimously by poll voice vote. RD: I’d like to make a motion that the Game Management Advisory Commission supports this resolution on palila. LT: I’d like to second that motion. Leomana – District 3. AA: Any discussion? I support this bill – I read the whole thing. We and other prior Commissioners – this is pretty much the reason why this Commission was formed was because of this particular problem in the County of Hawaii and not just to protect the palila bird but also to protect the sheep \[unclear\] says that the sheep decline is not the reason – maybe at one time when back in the day when the sheep herd was like 50,000 or something, then, yeah, they probably had a reason of the palila decline but now that the sheep is like 300 and the birds only make 200 there’s no – and the birds are still on the decline they really need to go back and investigate this again and just stop killing out game resource up there. LT: Leomana, District – 3. I think for all the Commissioners if you’re not an avid hunter and you haven’t been living on this Island – even for the residents – and you don’t play a part in this – you gotta understand it’s the biggest controversy and if you do ever hit the Big Island in the State of Hawaii because of this issue they fenced off all of our mountains – three different layers – we had to eradicated thousands of animals that we just shoot and kill and we leave them there and as a native Hawaiian and I’m as a hunter and as a human I don’t agree with jus shooting things to kill it and leave it there – that’s disrespectful and I support this resolution because it’s the biggest problem we face, all of us, in this room – the management of the land and it kinda seems like – so this is the end of it, the birds are gonna go – so after the birds go this is a free for all – the land has nothing protecting it – there’s no native animals on the land after the palila is gone there’s no reason for conservation to even exist because the plants are gonna go itself – when the animals go the plants go and after the animals and the plants are gone this 38 place is gonna turn like Oahu, like Maui – it’s already going in that direction, so, ah, that’s my idea, mana’o on the palila. AA: Any other discussion? AG: I’d like to say something. Mauna Kea forest is sick right now – the forest is unhealthy. I feel the palila birds have moved on to healthier forests due to the eradication of our sheep. You take out the animals the forest will not sustain itself. The overgrowth of weeds have smothered the mamane and the naio. You can see that they are completely dying from the inside out as if their heart is broken. So we need to work on making our forests healthy in order for the animals to be healthy as well so it’s all – it’s like our universe – if one thing goes out of rhythm or out of sync it all falls apart. NR: Natalie, District – 7. As a family that hunts and fishes, we actually teach our children you only shoot to kill, you know, to defend yourself or what you’re gonna eat. Other than that it should, you know, we don’t believe in shooting and leaving the animals there. I think the other rules was like educating yourself and doing that is moving forward for like a better place. I just don’t understand why people would just shoot and leave it there – even if you’re just trying to do that \[unclear\]. AA: OK. Thank you, Natalie. Roll call vote. District – 1? RD: Aye. AA: District – 2, absent; District – 3? LT: Aye. AA: District – 4, absent; District – 5, aye. District – 6? AG: Aye. AA: Seven? NR: Aye. AA: Eight and nine absent. SW: Five in favor… AA: Five in favor, motion passes. SW: OK. AA: Announcements… SW: Do you want to add this to the other letter? The support of this? Is this by the same Congress person? 39 AA: Yeah. NR: You have one minute left. 8. ANNOUNCEMENTS: AA: So notice of Public Hearing for GMAC Proposed Adoption of Rules – tentative schedules for February 21, 2023, at 2:00 pm. AG: All right. AA: Is that all? SW: Yeah, that’s all. I was just saying to clean it up you could do a quick motion to add this to the letter that Robert’s already doing. Action: L. Turalde made a motion to add the resolution letter regarding the palila bird to the letter that Commissioner Duerr will be writing. Seconded by R. Duerr. Motion carried unanimously by poll voice vote. LT: Leomana, District – 3. I’d like to clean up some stuff and make a motion to add the resolution letter to the letter that Mr. Duerr will be writing. RD: I second it. AA: Discussion? Seeing none. District – 1? RD: Aye. AA: District – 2, absent; District – 3? LT: Aye. AA: District – 4, absent. District – 5, aye. District – 6? AG: Aye. AA: District – 7, Natalie? NR: Aye. AA: Districts 8 and 9 absent. Five ayes, no nayes, the motion passes. SW: Yup, you’re done. LT: Second that motion… 40 AA: Any discussion? Seeing none – all in favor. \[The ayes have it\] AG: Thank you, guys, great talk. AA: Right on, Austin. I’ll stay in touch. AG: Sounds good. Aloha. 9. ADJOURNMENT: This meeting adjourned at 4:00 pm. Next Meeting: February 21, 2023. Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow, Secretary 41