HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023_08_15 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes
Game Management Advisory Commission
County of Hawai’i
Minutes – Final Draft
Meeting Date: August 15, 2023
Time: 9:00 am to 11:00 pm
Place: Zoom and In-Person site - 25 Aupuni Ctr., Ste. #1501, Hilo HI 96720
Meeting called to order by Chair Abraham Antonio at 9:00 am.
1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL:
District 1 - Robert Duerr, Present in person
District 2 – Vacant
District 3 – Rhon Leomana Turalde - Absent
District 4 – Brian Ley – Present in person
District 5 - Abraham Antonio, Present, in person
District 6 – Austin Griffey, Present, via Zoom
District 7 – Natalie Reynolds, Present, via Zoom
District 8 – Cortney Okumura – Present via Zoom
District 9 – Justin Ackerman – Present via Zoom
Quorum Established with 7 in attendance.
STAFF: Sylvia Wan, Deputy Attorney, Corporation Counsel – in person
Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist – via Zoom
AA: Also, present corporation council Sylvia Wan and commission secretary Barbara Kossow.
Public and those present please be sure your cell phones are on silent mode or turned
off. For all of us that are in attendance be sure to identify yourself and speak loudly and
clearly, so that your statements can be recorded and transcribed under HRS 19-3 of the
Sunshine Law, GMAC may remove any person that physically disrupt the meeting or
prevent or compromise the conduct of the meeting. All person attending this meeting
are to conduct themselves in a courteous manner.
Testimony -
Those in person if you would like to testify, please fill out the public statement
registration form which is right here in orange. Those of you on zoom who would like to
testify on an Agenda item, please provide your name and identify which item you would
like to testify on.
Questions from the public -
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For those who are on zoom and would like to pose a question on group chat or in
person you may write your question on the public statement registration form. Please
note that your question may or may not be asked at the desecration of the chair. Zoom
chat is not recorded and not part of the meeting minutes. The Zoom chat is not for
testimony or discussion. You will be recognized when it is time for submit testimony.
All GMAC members are reminded that they will be recognize when it is appropriate to
ask questions and/or discussion.
May I have a motion to approve the minutes of July 18, 2023?
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Action: Motion made by R. Duerr to approve the July 18, 2023 minutes as circulated.
Seconded by Austin Griffey. Motion carried by poll vote with 6 ayes, no nays and one
absent.
District 1 Robert Duerr - Aye
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent (running late)
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio - Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: None
4. COMMUNICATION: (Taken out of order, see page 6)
a. Dr. Melissa Price, Associate Professor, Department of Natural Resources &
Environmental Management College of Tropical Agriculture & Human Resources,
University of Hawai‘i at Mānoa, Email: “Understanding local pig hunter values and
practices.”
5. COMMISSIONER REPORT BY DISTRICT:
AA: District 1 – Robert Duerr
RD: Robert Duerr, District 1 - at the meeting of Mayor Roth with the Laupahoehoe
community Parks & Rec Maurice Messina said they have in fact found money for the
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Laupahoehoe ramp. So they looking on going forward on it and bottom line we look to
try to see if wecould get some plans CC Engineering is the same people which is doing
Pohiki place thought the State that people could see what the plans looks like.
Wailoa River…
AA: Okay hold on Abraham district 5.
My question with that, Barbara is the Laupahoehoe boat ramp still open or closed down
Barbara is that open or did it close down.
SW: It’s closed.
RD: Do we still have a commission on it? Is there still a committee?
SW: No. You can open a new one, the old one..
RD: I was on the committee; I don’t think it was reported.
SW: I believe there was an oral report given previously, right, it was closed, need to re-open.
AA: Second question. Is just for the Lapauhoehoe Boat Ramp or consisting of the Seawall as
well?
RD: This is just for the ramp. Not sure how it would affect the seawall was it, Nani
Shimabuku who was with Benjamin Reder, right, who said proceed with the ramp
irresectable of what they are doing.
Wailoa River we are having meeting this week with the association how we proceed to
follow up with 2.3 million CIP fund. That’s pretty much it.
SW: Can you clarify for the record which association is having this meeting? What’s the
name?
RD: Wailoa River Reeds Bay Boater User Association 501c3
AA: Thanks Robert. District 2 vacant.
District 3 not seeing any.
BL: District 4, Brian Ley - there was, I don’t know what is going on with the Pohiki boat
launch there was 5.4 million dollars and they were supposedly set aside to start
dredging and was supposed to be completed in 2024 the other day I jumped on google
start date and I found out that money disappear maybe it went to Laupahoehoe boat
Ramp apparently the money is gone and there is no idea when it is going to start we are
back at square one, unless somebody has more information than I have.
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DLNR put up new signs Puna district for hunting area hopefully we can have more
people signing in. DLNR is posting new hunter’s check in Station in the area Hunter
Check in Station that’s a good thing.
AA: District 5 Abraham - again talk on fencing from Steven Bergfeld from department of
forestry and I’ll give the commission a report later.
AA: District 6 Austin Griffey.
AG: Austin Griffey, South Kona Forest reserve they started clearing fence line and started to
fence off. They started erecting their fence on the hop boundary. They started fencing
boarding Yee Hop Ranch working their way down right now.
NARS area they started to cutting their fence line clear as well, other than that
everything is the same.
AA: Abraham District 5, Austin I going be working on mines, maybe next month when you do
your presentation you can have some pictures so people have a better idea of what you
are talking about.
AG: Okay.
AA: People can talk all they like, but if the rest of the commission they do not know the area
or whatever. Better idea of what you are talking about.
AG: It is like an 8-mile hike to get up there unless we can get the keys through the gate to
take pictures is there any way, we can get keys.
AA: I’m not sure you will have reach out to DOFAW and even coordinate even NARS.
AG: I know I can picture through my friend’s property borders theirs and they have been
coming through their property to survey and cut fence lines.
AA: I’m talking about taking pictures of the maps. Taking shots of the map.
AG: Okay Sounds good.
AA: District 7 Natalie.
NR: Natalie Reynolds, District 7 - Aloha and good morning spoke with Dave La Duke he is the
gentlemen that is responsible for Honokohau and Keauhou harbor and launch ramp.
He started very recently, and he is going to check to the powers to be or one of his
colleague that will be coming on in November to talk about what they have going on in
the future, what’s going with the fisheries etc.
Kathrine Harp from the Kohala Center is the lady that is handling reef and sunscreen
education. She is available to come on our October 17, 2023 meeting talk about the
history and what they are doing with progress with local and State legislative with
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Hawaii. She is also starting to work with the Public School on our side of our island, so
that anybody on here that have children attending public schools I have her contact
information they now have resources to go to the school and educate them and help
them out with that.
Additionally, last month President Biden administration recently cut key funding for
schools with hunting, and archery, education and I as parent who support both of those
I would like create PIG ticket to write to our possible DOE / BOE to suggest to keep the
funding at our school because living on an island it is very imperative to have
stewardship and sustainability for our schools for our children and future generation.
AA: That sounds good, and I don’t think, we need to create a PIG ticket.
NR: So, I can just write it?
SW: So, Natalie If you want to put it as an agenda item for next month you can if you want to
do research you can present to GMAC. It can basically…
NR: What is the easy most effective route, just writing a letter and presenting it?
SW: You need to present “the what” more at length of what the issues are and how it
connects back to the agencies that you want GMAC to advise.
NR: Okay-All right,
AA: Go ahead Natalie finish your statement.
NR: So, do I ask to do that right now.
SW: I think you just have.
NR: Okay cool, I’ll handle it. Thank you.
AA: District 8 Cortney-
CO: Aloha everyone good morning. I just wanted to update everyone there is a project
going on at Honokohau Small Boat Harbor it’s called wash down drainage project the
construction was set to begin on July 31, and it is going to be helping the wash down
drainage area. Which is currently full and overflowing and clogged with silt and debris
so there will be a temporary boat wash area that’s going to be across directly the access
road for any of those who use that area frequently it’s directly across of the access road
from the existing boat wash, so you’re probably will need longer hose or extension if
you’re going to be washing your vessel there. Anyway, hopefully they expect this to be
done by September. If you guys have any questions let me know. That’s all I have to
report. Thank you Chair.
AA: Thanks Courtney. Call out of order communication so we got…
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RD: Chair – could I have one question…Mayor’s executive assistance (on Zoom) who is that?
AA: It’s probably Barret Otani. If not, it is going to be Pomai.
RD: Thank you for that.
AA: Commissioner Brian Ley has additional item to his report.
BL: I forgot to mention I don’t know exactly who’s district that is. I took a cruise R1 and
Notice that the State is putting up cat proof fencing…along there I sent an email
requesting how many acres they were planning enclosing and stuff. I was not aware
they were doing anything, until I had got up there and saw the progress. So, I don’t
know whose district that is. Or how many acres they plan enclosing and that we are
going lose for hunting on that. There is a cat proof fence going on up over on Mauna
Kea over on the Hilo side.
AA: That might be District 2 that is vacant. If not Justin Ackerman’s district. District 9 Justin
Ackerman, welcome.
JA: Aloha good morning. Now that I’m getting my feet underneath me and trying to
understand what is happening the avenues I need to dive into and see what is going on.
I’m really just feeling it out right now, I have nothing of interest to say other than that
just trying to figure accepting all recommendation if anyone has any. Thank you.
AA: Now out of order-Communication.
We recently got communication from Dr. Melissa Price from the University of Hawaii
Manoa. Understanding Local Pig Hunters Values and Practices. You guys can find this
on our county GMAC folder under communications.
SW: So, chair I know Chair this is the first communication GMAC has had, so usually we’d
asked for a motion to close file and it can be officially submitted as a part of GMAC File
AA: Do I hear a motion to accept and closed file of communication from Dr. Price?
RD: I make a motion chair to accept and closed file.
BL: I second the motion.
AA: Robert has made a motion to accept and closed file and second by Brian, any discussion,
not seeing any, roll call.
District 1 Robert Duerr - Aye
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio – Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
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District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
AA: All in favor, 7 ayes, no nays, one absent, motion carries.
6. PRESENTATION:
a. Clay Trauernicht, Assistant Specialist, Department of Natural Resources &
Environmental Management to present: “Wild Ungulates seem to like it green:
Unmanaged vs Managed Grazing in Reducing Fire Risk.”
AA: We got Clay I’m sorry I don’t want to butcher your last name. He is the Assistant
Specialist, Department of Natural Resources & Environmental Management to present
“Wild Ungulates seen to like it green Unmanaged Vs Managed Grazing in Reducing Fire
Risk. Last month we had Kanalu Sproat, talking about our wild ungulate and fires, still
going along the same summer time fire, we been having. We still had our big fire out in
Kohala district and big fires out in Maui. Clay, you would like to take over, thank you
and welcome.
CT: Clay Trauernich UH Manoa based on Oahu yeah it has been busy week, to say the least
and pretty devastating I haven’t really had time to be honest to do anything formal
presentation wise. We would like to take over. I don’t have anything formal
presentation wise but I just thought I would show you some of the work we have been
doing on grazing and is includes what was I was asked really focused project Work by a
student I help do a project on the Big Island This is really the first time we looked at kind
of fenced and unfenced areas where you had ungulates excluded areas you still had
seen probably mostly Feral goats maybe some sheep this would have been in and
around Puuwaawaa and that surrounding landscape around there. You know I think this
a big question to comes up a lot when we do these community workshop and often we
are doing field trips after fires talking about how be better prepare the kind of things we
should be doing on the landscape and I know there is lots of controversy to when it
comes to grazing you know folks that really sort of ardently supportive of native Eco-
system conservation tend to wince when I bring up grazing as a tool and they tend to
be, oh, I’ve had People walk out of meeting on this I think clear I need to make it clear
that there is definitely eco system that are not compatible with and there is lot of
evidence to show some of these areas that we want to protect that we want to needs
to be protected from Ungulate impacts with that being said when we start looking at
fire and the scale of fire and scale and really the scale of the landscape which I my sense
is that hunters in particular have a very good sense because of just where you’re going
across the landscape right, to do what you doing. I’m not hunter by the way, I don’t,
yeah, did not do--- I grew up in Long Island in the suburbs, there wasn’t a lot of
opportunity lots of deer some place, to go back I think when you start looking at the
scale, those areas that we are protecting are pretty small at the end of the day they are
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pretty pretty, small, I don’t really, In my opinion I don’t see, I don’t understand the
concept I guest, because I think that there is so much space that we could co-manage
these resources together. With that being said when we start looking at some of
historical changes where they have removed ungulates. I learn most of what I know
about fires maybe some of you guys might have known Miles Nakahara who work with
the division of forestry and wildlife and so I definitely take some of his anecdotes to
heart in the sense that where he had they have seen areas that they fence removed the
wild ungulates and but did no other actions right. Took no other actions to reduced fire
risk and they had burned fires moved through those areas and hammered some of
these kipuka that he had seen over the years. I take that as pretty solid evidence. I’ve
also It has come to my attention by concerned citizens looking at the Summit of Mauna
Kea as an example, and the fuels that have accumulated there as well, so, my line of
argument here is always that especially these dry ecosystems if you are going to do
Ungulate management it needs to be ungulate management in the sense excluding
them needs to be part of the landscape to be more specific. It needs to be tied with fire
mitigation action and I think that’s the news right now and the story right now and it’s
hard to talk about this without getting kind of worked up but we are not doing enough
that we can that we should be and all I have to say I am open to understanding ways in
which wild ungulates can be managed maybe in different ways to reduce that risk and
just another anecdote comes to mind is that I’ve had some real cool conversation for
example with Kualii Camara, I don’t want to get anyone in trouble, but he’s like talking
about his ideas of trying to work with some of the sheep to manage gorse and fires
cause by gorse as an example, he’s got some ideas where you can do drives, strategic
fencing and things like that, so I think there are a lot of ideas out there but I think as it
stand what my students work, well maybe I will start with this and start with targeting
grazing and so we’ve been focusing most of my work that were intersecting with grazing
has been working with folks like Mark Forum At University of Hawaii cooperative
extension specialist grazing management specialist what we’ve been trying to do is
promote the idea that our ranchers have knowledge and the tools available animals are
a tool in the tool box. So the idea there is that ranchers have knowledge with their
cattle around the land and they know when fires is high and they know how to
manipulate stocking densities, right, and so this comes from evidence from across the
mainland, but we do have some state, some evidence from the state showing that when
you target grazing when you manipulate cattle in strategic ways, you can actually knock
down the fuel quantities and then you done, there is some modeling work that has been
done, okay, like, if you have grass that’s grazed verses you have grassland that is un-
grazed, like how does that affect fire behavior, estimated fire behavior, and it’s pretty
conclusive when you reduce the quantities of fuels, that it can actually reduce the
intensity which fire burns and therefore be less destructive and much more manageable
for firefighters. The other important point is that we’re seeing and this is new, the other
import point is that we are seeing , really emerging from some of these incidence that
we’ve seen just in recent years and the one that really comes to mind, the Mana road
fire, that was the second largest that we know of in State history and what the folks at
Parker Ranch for example, saw is that the fires rip across grazed pastures even there,
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right, so I think it is really important for us to keep in mind that this is a tool and it can
create safer conditions for firefighters, but there are limits to when you got 40 – 50
miles an hour winds super-hot dry conditions that grazing might not necessarily affect
the speed as those fire moves across the landscape and so that is like the other
dimension there like the intensity, like how much fuels can be consumed like put off
heat like that release all this energy, but the second piece that’s really important
especially giving the firefighters a chance here is how quickly that fire moves across the
landscape can they get ahead of it, can they get between us and our communities right,
so that’s the problem we saw doing these recent fires. The fires last week by the time
of its ignition, then I don’t care what kind of early warning system of sirens and all these
things, by the time that thing starts and the time it reaches the house, homes in this
case umm it was literally within minutes and so that is where we really need to thinking
it’s probably about. All the strategies that are out there, it’s probably beyond of what, I
can talk about today. So, targeting grazing is something we’ve been advocating for a
long time, but the questions remain what about the feral ungulates? What affect are
these wild animals having on the fuel and that really bring us to this paper that my
student worked on Tim Zu, and again set up for this, he was doing really careful detail
studies of the fuel composition, what kind of vegetation standing - lying, what kind of
grass? All the quantities of fuel that is out there to burn on the landscape and had these
paired plots, one plot on one side of the fence where ungulates were excluded, another
plot inside the fence, where they were wild animals and I can just share the kind of take
home. First, let’s look at a map and you can see where he had all these plots set up you
can kind of see the rain fall, because that’s really what I kind of titled it, “Ungulates like
it Green,” I think that’s really the kind of the take home. Let see if I can share the screen
this, so you guys see that map, look at the sites, you see it okay, these are the sites that
he sampled fuel, he had kind of you know this I think was Pohakuloa, there was some
sites Puwaawaa and he also got to some wetter site this was pretty dry over here, and
this is really important to understand moisture zones and where he is seeing the effect,
right, the ungulates on fuels and where fire is most common this is where again, the
only study we have, take it with a grain of salt. What he really found when he started
looking at, what is the difference of these fuel type, is that, hang on here, okay this is a
little messy here, but what you need here I should have helped with these charts. What
we are looking at, he has sites, these are his sites, right this Dark line, little H’s they look
like little h’s on their side the dark one are the fenced areas and fenced and ungulates
removed and the gray, light gray is where you have ungulates grazing and so what he
found he goes from very dry to moderately dry to wet, pretty wet and kind of in the
middle mesic is like between wet and dry. And so, what we are seeing as we go from
very dry to wet is the difference between the dark that’s the fence area and the light
which is the unfenced area increases. So, in other words what we took from this is the
biggest effect of grazing by wild ungulates this is happening in wetter areas, right so it’s
really where and this makes sense I think and if you are an animal biologist think about
their ecology they like quality forage, cows are no different, right, they really going
where the forage quality which is the best where it’s greener at higher elevation, and
moisture areas. This is why when grazers are talking about use of cattle for fire risk
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reduction. They really are talking – Targeted Grazing – Targeted Grazing right, because if
you let your cattle cruise, they are going to go where the forage is - the best they want
to eat all the candy and they are not going to go hammer the really dry and poor quality
forage and I guest for you guys—for Big Island what we are talking about, we can get
into the species, and that’s Fountain grass, and we kind of all know that like fountain
grass, is not a preferable forage, really low nutrient quality. And so, my interpretation
of this is that is kind of what we’re seeing, these dry and very dry, moderately dry areas
that affect is pretty small. In other words, they’re not really hammering the fuels back
in an effective way and so the catch here is we’re talking about is fire risk on a day, to
day basis and by that, I mean, where are the fires most common? They mostly burning
in these lower elevation drier sites. The other side of that, the flip side that, those
stories that Miles would tell us about, where they were trying to make protection and
those place that were burning, those were up in kind of higher quality habitat. And it
speaks to this anecdotal experience, about, well when you’re in those areas where you
have high quality native forest you probably also in these wetter areas where you’re
going to have higher quality forage, and so again I think you’re also, going to also speaks
to the fact that there would have been this affect, you fence out the area, you remove
the ungulates you are increasing the fuel loads, especially in those wet zones and so if a
fire does occur, which is the case, it’s not that they only occur in these lower drier areas,
they are occurring at higher elevations, unfortunately as well. Impacting our remnant
native forest, which again comes back to me, thinking about and it’s kind of a question
to you all, is, are there ways that we can be more strategic with the managing wild
ungulates? Because again, the grazing footprint is shrinking in Hawaii. Not again, I
haven’t talk about this. The footprint of active ranch land is shrinking, you know a lot of
these operations are on a shoestring budget, they barely making it, breaking even. And
frankly we’re losing a lot of knowledge of how to work with animals on the landscape.
That’s kind of my fear as far as looking at grazing as a tool. And yeah, kind of like, about
to say I don’t think like, I’m not anti-anything, I think, all of these things provide
opportunities, potentially to reduce risk and we’re seeing this week there is this dire
need to use all the tools that are available to us. But I think the lesson here is that it
needs to be more strategic, and in the areas like around our communities primarily
where we see these big fire impacts. Like in Lahaina you would be in this space for
example, right, and then you know the flip side, so uncontrolled population, you run
right other issues, so for example the deer, Axis Deer, when you have just high, high,
high, numbers among animals, you start running into problems, with the erosion, over
grazing right, this is the same thing that happens, if you hammer a place with cattle you
get over grazing which results, not only erosion impacts, but the other problems that
we’ve seen in some of these over grazed pastured, is that grass becomes replaced with
non-palatable species. So all of a sudden you have gazing as a tool, and then if you a
hammer a place, and it gets replaced with something that you can’t actually graze. You
are kind of stuck there. So, That’s what I have to share, I guess the other thing I just do
this really quick if you’re interested into some of the evidence of targeted grazing, we
do have this document here that we, worked on which is just sort about the idea of
grazing as a tool you can find this at https://pacificfireexchange.org
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This is like where try we put out these resources. We need to do something probably on
this research that makes it more accessible to folks, so you’re not staring at these weird
H’s and lots of dots everywhere, but that’s your answer, we kind of look at the extend of
grass lands across the state, the importance of grazing as a tool and just an example
again using targeting grazing how it affects live and dead fuel. The big impact here this
chart here showing how much fuel is out there. Like the quantity grass and to me the
important thing you got to see grazing is that, in this dead area, to me in these graze
areas, the mount of dead vegetation, dead dried up grass is significantly reduced and
the benefit of that, that’s the stuff that is so sensitive during these dry period, dips in
humidity and that’s the stuff that lights up and races across the landscape when we get
these fires. So, I just turn it to you guys if you have questions, comments, criticism,
whatever you want to share back I can stop sharing. So again that’s
pacificfireexchange.org is where we post a lot of these resources. We are always open
to ideas, and you know information needs. So, I’ll stop sharing.
AA: District 2 – Abraham district 2 Thanks again for your information. Can you share that link
to the zoom chat?
SW: Corp Council – You can’t share on the zoom chat, but he can provide the link to Barbara.
AA: District 2 – Cancel that Can you provide - and send the link to Barbara so we can do it as
a communication to the commissioners and she can share the information to the
commissioners?
CT: Yeah, no problem.
AA: Share that the brochure you just did, thanks.
NR: Natalie District 7 - I have a question-With the sheep and the cattle you guys are using for
the grazing do you have in the event of there is a fire, how many animals do you had, do
you have the capability to get those animals out, in the event the fire comes, because if
you have strong winds, like we had for example like we had on Maui they had 70 miles an
hour winds, can you herd cattle that fast to get out to safety or do you just slew another
natural resource?
CT: No that’s it, That’s a great question. I think, it speaks to like, what we are talking about
what people are doing. When I talk about what people are doing, so I’m talking like we
got a couple farmers in Waianae who have these small herd of sheep that were working
try like demonstrated, like look, here something we can do, we finally live up with a big,
the larger herd on the North Shore here, trying to work with her showing her what we
can do, but these are all small scale. There not---we are not doing anything at a scale,
yeah that’s going to make a dent yet. It’s like here are the things, people actually are
taking action, always like local scale things, and so in that context. Yeah like, if you’re just
spot grazing your little paddock and you are surrounded by tons of unmanaged fuels
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around you. This is kind of what we saw Kapu community on Mana Road and the fire
screaming down the hill from then from all this land up mauka. You’ll still in trouble, and
so yeah, evacuating your cattle or your animals at 100 miles an hour winds, is really
difficult. So, what we’re talking about like this has to be on a large scale, full
landscape scale and the like the change that were dealing with grappling with going from
full scale. I can show you maps of sugar cane around Lahaina it’s the whole space around
Lahaina for example, it was all sugar cane, and it gets taken away and so if you’re not
doing something of that same scale, and if you’re dealing with the grasses and the fuels
that are left behind after this after the operation pulled out you know one little manini
spot is not really going, unfortunately do it. But what we are trying to say these guys are
scared, there are worried, they are taking action and this is the example that we need to
do, we need to get them more resources. We need to get people access to water access
to land. I mean wadding in the thick of some heavy-duty political battle here to make
changes that we didn’t make, and this could have been prevented.
AA: District 5 – Abraham District 5 remember this commission mission is for game resources
not cattle.
CT: Good point good point, sorry.
AA: District 5 – Any more questions for Clay just try to stay away from the cattle and stay on
topic of what the commission is for, it’s for our game animals. Any other questions or
comments from the commissioners or public?
RD: District 1 Robert Duerr thank you Clay for your efforts and your work. We really
appreciated.
CT: No problem.
NR District 7 – Natalie District 7 Stanley Mendez has his hand up in the chat.
SW: Corp Counsel – I’m trying to deal with that.
AA: We’re getting it Natalie.
NR: District 7 – Okay.
RD: District 1 - Clay you mentioned that some of the experience you’ve seen on the Big Island
is Environmentalist and anti-pigs, forces don’t want to see ungulates and sheep forces,
don’t want to see ungulates on the landscape at all. Are you seeing a change in that? Are
you seeing a way, that view that they have, that ungulates managed, that they can
actually work in the landscape?
CT: I’m seeing a big change. I think the change so far has been there, like about manage
grazing cattle and so to me it’s like maybe baby steps. I think that the folks what fires
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also kind of showing people allowing them to understand that the footprint of these like
ecosystem that they are trying to work is so relatively small. You know so I think there is
a change happening in the sense. And, because we have hunters coming into the
conservation community, and they are helping people understand there are so many
opportunities to be allies in this. So many opportunities to have shared understanding.
So yeah, I think it is changing, and I think the fire issues has been, then again if there is
any silver lining for this, that been one of them. Then again folks like Miles, I also give him
credit, because he has been the pushing for the need to do these other forms of fuel
management, especially in response to taking these animals out/off the land and he really
laid the ground work for this and, I don’t know if he got to see, some the fruit of that in
his life time, he passed away a few years ago, and so, but I think people are starting to
come around they are realizing that they can’t do this on their own, so it’s changing.
AG: Austin Griffey, District 6 - I think cow and sheep are kind of are really picky animals to be
using for grazing. You would want to use more goats to keep down the fire fuel areas,
because they eat not only grass, they, eat invasive species plants as well, which the cows
and the sheep are really picky, and they only want that fresh growth of grass. I think if
we threw maintaining fire break roads in the mix and control burns before fire seasons, it
might help keep down the fires during fire seasons. So, they don’t just blow up and take
over.
CT: Yeah, that’s a lot, I think that’s really a good point. I think the interest in sheep is coming
up, because a lot of the farmers were working and they have never done animals, because
they’re less pokey at the fences and what I learn too, is that the goats in an agriculture
setting, they are more susceptible to diseases. But yeah, people like the idea of sheep
and goats for the same reason you’re saying. They’ll tackle the haole koa and other crap
that they want to kind of reduce the amount of vegetation they want to reduce.
BL: Brian Ley, District 4 – Going back to the Mauna Fire, I took some pictures on one side of
Parker Ranch and the other side of PTA and you could see the difference. The pasture
burn like you were saying there was a low fuel load so there was minimal damage was
still grass was still green, but once it pop over the fence, and got into the PTA and the
fountain grass, I mean it forced burn to the ground. It is something to talk about erosion
and everything, but we have these big fires, and the range and the erosion is much worst
then the goats and the sheep are doing. In California it is repetitive. You get these fires,
rain comes, then you get the landslides, and everything else which is just worst. We are
taking pennies when we get hundred dollar bills floating away. You know this is
something we need to look into, and like you said, we got these vast fires and the game
animals can’t keep up with it. When you go down new Saddle Road 49-50, when we had
the fires couple years ago, it was just a little area and the goats when there, they kept
the cotton grass in now we got native Hawaiian shrubbery, and the goats aren’t eating,
cutting back and you see the goats in there in between keeping the fountain grass, like
you were saying, they like the new vegetation, and we had control burns instead of ten
thousand acres at a time, we are doing couple hundred acres. Let these animals move in
and keep everything under control. And another thing nobody brings up on these fires,
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once we have these fires. Then we have these non-native plants that goats won’t even
eat moving in and taking over as an example, it’s the, I call them tobacco trees they are
part of the tobacco plant family from south America, they are just taking over
Pu’uwa’awa’a where we had the fire five years ago destroyed massive amounts of Ohia
forest and now we got this, we just got to look in….
SW: Is there a question?
BL: Humm?
SW: Is there a question?
BL: No, I’m just asking are we looking into these things?
SW: Okay..
BL: We talk about this, and we got no …
NR: Natalie District….
BL: We complain about the animals, but we are not providing quality habitat in these scrub
areas.
NR: Natalie District 7
BL: That’s fountain grass ----- Out of me
SW: I’m sorry I think we need to have the presenter have a chance to response.
CT: Just really quick, that spot, many people are pointing out that spot in particular, where
we are getting native plants recovery, I think it is also starting to change people’s
understanding, and we’re asking questions, why is it coming out like that? Also, the
understanding of the compatibility potential between these wild animals that are in
there, and what – how are they are contributing as well as the fire itself, like you know,
how did it burn in that spot in particularly to suddenly get this to this big flush of native
shrub. I know at least folks, I’ve been talking to some folks at Division of Forestry and
Wildlife, very, very interested in what’s going on there and is there something that can
be replicated.
AA: Go ahead Natalie.
NR: Natalei District 7 - When a response to a control burn, but we were talking about that, I
believe we were talking about that a month or a month before that, the reason why we
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are not allowed to do it or we can’t do it, is we’ve do have the resources or the funding
which is a huge problem being on our Island. We don’t have anything for the fireman,
whether it’s the supplies, the training, or just money to do it. And it’s very
heartbreaking especially what everybody experienced over the last week.
CT: It’s complicated, control burning requires all the infrastructures and access to serve as
firebreaks during, even if you didn’t have control burning. It’s really complex, a lot of folks
are also gun shy we’ve have some destructive fire escape, that was set initially that had
escape, one big one, being Makua Valley. So, there is definitely hesitance around that,
although I would say, Maui County is doing it, Kauai County wants to start. Now only for
fuel management and I would say primarily for training purposes that they can better
respond in the future. There is definitely a use there and require a lot more research. I
just want to point out that Stanley still has his hand up.
AA: Stanley if you have a question, you have to pose in the chat.
If you going have a Comment you have 3 minutes – go ahead Stanley
Stanley – ??
SW: I do not know what happen.
CT: Maybe he dropped off ---- He just left.
AA: One more question.
BL: Brian District 1 – Once again Clay, is this situation, invasive grasses burning, depositing
ash and re-growing, is that going to get any better or is it going to get worse.
CT: It’s interesting question, I mean, it’s probably the erosion events after the fire.
So, if you burn, like most of that, which is immediately available for plant consumption,
and all these grasses are adapted to fire. So, they re-sprout immediately also many from
seed after they burn. I think it’s more like question like the intervening event. So, we’ve
seen like, Puwa…Mixing up my watershed…like Kawaihae fire, I think it was 2015, right,
which was immediately followed by these heavy rains, above that just washed
everything down to Pelekane Bay. So, it’s like more so I think, if you just burn and the
grass grows with rains, and burn again, then grass grows and you might be seeing these,
you might be seeing the sort of slow small slight declines in fertility, but I think it’s more
the vulnerability to those larger scale events. So, another example that comes to mind
is on Mauna Kea, there was a really gnarly fire there in 2010, kind of right across the
road from…From… Right up Mauna Kea State Park, burnt out up the mountain, like hit
tree line, essentially …vegetation line and so that was and big wind event came and they
were actually and forest service had plots there were to show, all of a suddenly this
huge crash and nutrient availability after that fire…That is what the attributed to. So,
again it’s this combination, it makes us vulnerable to these other impacts. Not just the
fire itself, but the other stuff that happens after the fire.
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AG: Austin Griffey District 6- but in that area that they had nutrition deficiency there was no
animals in, right?
CT: That’s a good question --- I can’t remember if that 2010, I don’t know if there was control
or not. I don’t know, I can’t speak to that. 2010 it was just kind of Hilo side of the State
Park and like burnt up the mountain. This was before any – I think one of the big fences,
maybe Palila habitat fence that were there. I don’t know, what the status was of the
animals that were there.
AA: Stanley again, you’re going to ask questions, you got questions to ask? You have to put it
in the chat and if you have comments, you have 3 minutes, you can go now.
SM: Stanley – Yes.
CT: I apologize to you guys; I have to run across campus I have a meeting at 10. So, I have to
leave in a few minutes here.
SM: Hello Stanley Mendez – I have two questions, first, I hunt most….
AA: Stanley, if you have questions, you can put it on the Chat.
SM: If I have a statement, I can just say it.
AA: If you have a statement just say it.
SM: No question. I hunt primarily Pu’uanaulu and Pu’uwa’awa’a and all the fences up like the
bird sanctuary and the fencing a lot more Pu’uwa’awa’a, you can see the difference in
those areas where the grasses and invasive have taken over in those fenced area where
no animals is in. So that’s one opinion. The next is If you have places where the animals
can go and get their water, you keep them those animals in the areas where you want to
have the grass is eaten. My observation is where you have watering units and those units
have been turned off or something is wrong with it, the animals will go after the trees in
those areas and eating the bark. Where there is ample water they leave the plants alone
and eat just grasses. Goats and Sheep because there is no water, they basically go for the
young fountain grass and they keep on eating those young fountain grass, so that’s my
observation. Thank you.
CT: I just responded, I think you’re exactly right when you have, and if there’s opportunity
and this the knowledge is with you folks. About how… If you going to manage game.
There is no--- The idea like, I don’t know. I don’t know if any one said this, I’ve heard
people say like, we’re going to get rid, eradicate, to me it’s not possible, the like these +
landscape is so huge they don’t need to be eradicate, because again, these areas, we are
trying like…. keep them out, yeah these areas are pretty small…relatively speaking, but,
yeah. There are ways you can direct, I don’t know how this affect hunting, like, in the
sense of like how the quality of hunting, but you… There are ways you can manipulate
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the movement of these animals I think the evidence from the targeted grazing study
shows that, it’s a tool can be use. I definitely – like, I don’t think that our study removes
it off the table. That graph I was showing where it shows, the bigger difference in the wet
places…that’s like bird sanctuary like that is in those zones, where they its’ higher rain
falls….and probably higher quality forage. That is such an interesting observation when
it’s dry, they’re going for the bark and stuff, even in areas where the ungulates move, we
see the rats do the exact same thing. The rats, suddenly there is no water they are
chewing all the barks on the trees. That’s pretty, again I’m here to provide whatever
information I can. From my perspective everything needs to be there as a tool
potentially as a tool to use and I see our hunters as an allied here. But I do have to run.
Thank you, guys for having me, and if there are any other questions please share email
with the group, I’m happy to help.
AA: Thank you.
NR: Thank you Clay.
CT: Take care.
b. Joshua Pang-Ching, East Hawai’i Wildlife Biologist DLNR Division of Forestry and
Wildlife: Update Kapapala Ranch access.
JPC: Thank you for having me. So, I just have a couple of brief update changes to some
access. This is access through the forest reserve, get mauka to the Kapapala
and Ka’u forest reserve, lands above Kapapala Ranch.
People who have gone there before, will know the older method
where you have to fill out a paper work with the ranch
call the night before or the morning of to get the combination.
The ranch has deployed a quicker and much more streamline process and it started as
of July, 2023. It’s pretty simple, basically you go on the website Kapapala Ranch.com,
you register and if you had a previous registration with the ranch you have
to re-register. So, you register on the website if you intend to go into
the ranch or up through the ranch soon or do it a couple days ahead, you submit the
forms, you get an email response. you’re going to have to submit your ID, take picture
of your current ID, ranch reason information you’re get an email confirmation, when if
everything goes through. From thereonyou are given an access ID. And basically, from
there, the night before or the day before or anytime ahead of the date you intend pass
through the ranch going to the forest reserve, you put in a request, then you get the
day you are going go through, basically you get a code that is texted to your phone or
whatever text information you provide. You get the code, that’s it. Pretty simple,it
helps the ranch out and make it easier for hunter’s and forest users. And it is kinda the
same set up that they had before you request access bu the specific gate you trying to
enter through. The three gate you trying to enter, it’s the Ainapo Gate, Pononui Gate
and the Woodvalley Gate. That’s all I have for the access, if anybody has questions.
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One other Kapapala related thing with access and everything with the ranch the land
transfers for the ranch, the land going to the board at the end of August, I think it is
th
August 28, meeting, so if anybody is interested in attending that, it’s basically the
transfer of the ranch from DLNR to HDOA. There is a section of the ranch that’s being,
set aside and would comeback under the forest reserve. That would allow for more
mammal hunting opportunities out in Ka’u. Amongst other hunting related topics with
the ranch transfer. That’s all I have.
AA: District 5. Can you summarize and send to Barbara and follow in a form of
communications?
JPC: Yes, you kike me to summarize the ranch land transfer topic or the access?
AA: District 5. Just the process going through the gates.
JPC: Yep, I can summarize that. Also, there is good step by step on the website itseld, but I
can provide both as well.
AA: District 5. Okay, thanks.
JPC: You’re welcome.
NR: District 7. When was that meeting?
th
JPC: I believe it is Monday, August 28. They were trying to go get on the board and it should
be on the meeting agenda which has not come out as yet. But I think the Ranch and DLNR
are trying to make it happen at that meeting, August 28, I believe.
NR: Okay, cool, thank you.
JPC: You’re welcome.
SW: Deputy Corporation Council Sylvia Wan, just for clarification of records what’s that
meeting, who is holding that meeting?
JPC: BLNR is holding that meeting, Board of Land & Natural Resource.
SW: Board of Land & Natural Resource meeting?
JPC: Yes.
SW: Oh, okay. Thank you.
BL: District 1. – I want to ask a question. If a hunter is not computer savvy is there an alternate
way. It looks like if you don’t have a phone most text and I don’t know if they are holding
on.
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JCP: That’s a good question. You can do it, most of the registration via phone. I think if they,
as far as the code goes, I think you can just do it on a computer any type of internet access
devise. It looks like if you don’t have a phone that is textable, I think you are sent a code
via email. What I’m reading here is it’s mostly doing text or they might be doing through
email. I’m not sure if the ranch is holding on to their olde system, where you call the ranch
but I can follow up on that.
AG: What about out of state hunters that come in to hunt. Do they follow the same process?
JPC: I believe so. And if they go with a person who is already register, basically just like a
registration for the group, rather than the individual, to get access. Kind like similar
before, where a person calls for access, you know, as far as the hunter, the hunting rules
applies. As for access it’s for vender’s mechanic.
AG: How long does a registration last?
JPC: I read it somewhere, I will follow up on that. I think it’s good for a year. Duration that it
was good for…
AG - They are still doing the camping permits for the cabin as well?
JPC – Yep, I think those are still the same.
AG- Okay -Thanks.
JPC - Yeah - Your welcome.
BL: District 1 Once again, Joshua, once you register, are you a user that registration does it
carries forward for a year or/and how long does a registration last?
JPC: Let me see, I read that somewhere, I think it’s good ---I will follow up on that. I read it
somewhere, they had a lot of information on here, I think it’s good at least year. Cause I
know the previous system they had duration that it was good for…
AG: I know I had mine for 15 years, never did change I never had to update.
JPC: You never had to update.
AG: No.
JPC: It sounds like it’s the same, yeah you just register, and then obviously if any of your
information changes, you have to update. Like if your phone number changes, email
changes with this current system you would have to go on and update that, so are able
to receive the code, accordingly or they have to reach out to you. Say something on their
system changes, you would have to update that.
AA: Thank Joshua thank you for your time.
JPC: Yeah – Your welcome, Thank you for your guys’ time.
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AA: Move on to Section C of Presentation Kanalua Sproat of West Hawaii Wildlife Biologist
DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife West Hawaii Feral Ungulate Management Plan Task
Force.
c. Kanalu Sproat, West Hawai’i Wildlife Biologist DLNR Division of Forestry and
Wildlife - West Hawai’i Feral Ungulate Management Plan Task Force update.
AA: So, Courtney asked for an update last month, but it wasn’t on the agenda, so now it’s on
agenda for this month. Kanalua can you give us an update, about the West Side Ungulate
Management Plan Task Force? Apparently, you guys had a meeting recently last couple
of months or something.
KS: Yeah, no problem, you guys can hear me, okay?
AA: Yeah.
KS: Yes. we met – we met twice this year so far we met in February and we met again in
May. In our last meeting we selected a chair and it became a co-chair, so Kim Kozuma
from Dept of Ag and Regina Sorano from the County are the co-chairs from the task
force. We discussed and outline, for the report that we need to present to the
legislature. And I was thinking I just could read through some bullet points from the
outline that we discussed and and just get you guys comments if you think we’re missing
anything or anything like that so the first part of our, I think I discussed some of these
things with you guys before. In the report, the first part of the report we’re going to talk
about the legislative mandates that dictate what we, what our responsibilities are, as
different agencies are involved with this report. And then, sorry, we also going to talk
about its’ an ungulates report, it’s supposed to be not just for
goats, even if it’s kind of the driving factor. So just kind of give a brief distribution of
each species on this side of the Island. And the issues that we’re discussing are, public
safety, as the goats are encroaching highways, crop damage, and forage competition of
livestock partners, property damage, native forest preservation, conservation and
damage to cultural and archeological sites. Those are the kind main issues we are
looking at as we present this report. Some of the solutions that we’re already
suggesting umm the main one from our agency, the first one is, addressing our short
staffing for DOFAW and wildlife section of the Island. So, we are suggesting to create a
couple of biologist position and technicians position. Since on this side, it’s only myself,
I’m the only biologist and I have two technicians. So were trying to increase that. And
also something we have discussed with you guys several times are the rules change.
The temporary rules change that we’re working on to increase harvesting of goats
specifically, Puwa’awa’a and Punalu’u. some of the other stuff that we are investigating
and we will provide are in the report are cost for fencing along the highways. Especially
the highways we are responsible for so, between the upper road between Waimea and
Kona. Kind of fencing both sides of the road in Punalu’u and Pu’uwa’awa’a. Also, Daniel
K Inouye highway pretty much from the upper road from highway 190 junction to kind
of to the Mauna Kea access road. Get an estimate for cost for fencing in those areas.
That’s’ it’s one solution and we’re going to present this to the legislature hey this is one
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option to keep the animals off the highways and this is what it would cost. Another
thing we’re suggesting is that the rumble strips if they create new roads and if they
update rumble strips, not to have rumble strips that are depressions, because that
catches water and that attracts animals to the side of the road like that. We’ve also
discussed, kind of presenting a way to allow the department of transportation, I don’t
know allow but, if they can keep kind of a buffer of no vegetation between the shoulder
of the highway, probably at least 20 to 30 feet away, again to keep the animals from
encroaching that space. Investigate potential to allow public hunters into some of those
private lands. Something we need to discuss with the landowners. Continue discussing
with PTA to increase their hunting opportunities which we are doing something you
guys know we are doing and just something be part of the report we distribute a list of
hunters and trappers. We give to the public when they ask for assistance. We are also
looking at doing control grazing along kind of in the same corridor where we are looking
putting up fencing, it’s almost the exactly like the first presentation was about, keep the
vegetation down. So, we are already looking, I’ve already found out what that cost
might be. It might be cost prohibitive, and but, what, one more thing. Somebody
suggested that a comprehensive law restricting the feeding of feral animals as a possible
solution. I don’t think we have anything that we have that strictly prohibit that.
Another thing that was suggesting was to look at the potentially, so if we do fence the
highways as we suggest or at least some of the highways providing some of kind of a
crossing corridors somehow, just do research on that what it would cost and what that
would it look like. That’s all I’m looking at my outline over here. Thats the update I
have.
AA: Thanks Kanalu, any questions or comment from the commissioners?
BL: Brian Ley from District 4, Thanks Kanalu its great as always good to see you again, Haven’t
seen you awhile. So, there was no discussion about putting water units or a pristine
habitat to keep the animals off the road? I mean we are supposed to have quality habitat.
When we have quality habitat they’re not going to be wondering to the road if they got
water and good food somewhere else, but that was never discussed, you’re going to go
straight to fencing and more shooting of the animals?
KS: That’s an interesting, short answers, we didn’t discuss that. It’s really interesting because
the road themselves act kind of like a big catchment and the water you know when there’s
rain falls on the road and runs to the side and it creates, there is a lot young growth more
palatable species for grazing for the animals. That attracts the animals into that space
because hunters are not allowed to hunt within a certain distance from the road and it
also creates kind of a safe space for those animals. So no, we did not talk about creating
better habitat elsewhere. I guess we did have a little about water units away from
highways. I guess that is in one form or another habitat. But yeah, road corridors
themselves really presents they kind a create a safe space with more palatable forage
species for them. Most of our discussion was how to remove that forage from the space
and any water from those spaces and how to keep them away from the roads. But, yes
21
we did have a little discussion about drinking water units away from roads, kind of
hopefully entice animals to go there.
BL: Curiosity is there any statistics on how many goats gets hit? Those are rarely, in my
personal opinion, I rarely see goats they seem to be more - little bit more intelligent
than mouflon sheep and the pigs are the ones that create the most traffic along side of
the road. Is there any statistics?
KS: I don’t know, but I do know that the dept. of transportation does respond to road kills
and remove those carcasses from the roadside. They are putting together those numbers
for us, I just haven’t seen them yet. I know that that exists but, I don’t have it yet.
BL: If the department of transportation is doing that is there some way you can find out where
these high impact areas are? Maybe you guys do limited fencing along these high impact
corridors? Instead of fencing everything out.
KS: Yeah, that’s another option for sure, and something we can look into as I present the
information to us. For us we are not trying to fence everything. We are trying kind of like
those are the areas that are high crossing areas. And there are also areas that our agency
has responsibility for. It’s easy for us to be able to do the work there. But yeah, I know
that is a suggestion that we can look in, that is the location where most of the strikes are
and kind of focus there. Good questions and that is our intentions.
AA: Stanley again comments 3 minutes, go ahead.
SW: I asked him to unmute.
AA: Stanley, go ahead.
SM: Okay, my opinion if we put more pressure in our public lands, we are going push the
animals more into private lands. I think the way to go is to try and get the private
landowners to give permission for hunters and DLNR would oversee this. As far as animals
on the highway you have it from the old saddle road to the new saddle road, lots of goats
and pigs there. As far as from the new saddle road to Kona, you’ll see maybe one nanny
with couple kids here and there, some mules on the road. You don’t see, except for the
area around Pu’ulani ranch you don’t see too much in the hunt area you don’t see too
much bids animals. You can tell from see the mess on the highway. I don’t think there’s
problem with the animals in the public area. That’s my opinion.
AA: Thanks Stanley. So that was a good kind of questions. Kanalu what is the, how many
animals are you guys getting coming onto the road in the public hunting areas verse the
private areas? Where is the actual problem, is it more State land or is it more private?
KS: You know good question. So, we have done a couple of roadside surveys. That
something that I started to implement just to try recordings exactly what you’re saying.
I didn’t - I haven’t quantified it yet, but I can say from what we are seeing where most of
the areas we see goats alongside the road. Kind of main hot spots are going to be
Keamoku by the old saddle road junction with highway 190 and that corner down there
22
between there and the Judges house. That’s a big hot spot for goats defiantly close to
the road.
AA: But then again is that private? I know Keamoku is more of the public land, but the Judge’s
house is that more public or private?
KS: One side of the road is public but it’s Department of Defense, and the other side of the
road is private. Then I would say kind near the that stretch between Daniel K. Inouye
and on highway 190 between Daniel K. until mile marker 26 at the end of Pu’uwa’awa’a.
it’s not there are animals alongside of the road, but it’s not consistent, it’s kind of hit
and miss. You’ll get like. And more were I see them are actually closer to the
subdivision. And, also, right after the middle road. I’ll see a bunch of sheep frequently
right after mile marker 16 there is kind of small group of sheep that hang out there and
it’s not as consistence as Keamoku stretch, that always get a big pile of goats or near the
road there. Going down Hinalani been seeing a lot pretty amount of goats in Kona.
Along Queen K. between the airport and town, I will frequently see kind of couple small
groups of goats in that stretch kind of closer to the airport. Any ways, and then on DKI
that stretch that Stanley mentioned this for sure, how I use strictly have animals in that
area…
AG: It seems to me more of the nocturnal animals are the ones that are getting hit by the
cars, like the sheep and the pigs at nighttime. Is it really worth it to spend a couple
million dollars on fence line to save 40 to 50 animals a year from getting hit by a car
verses putting up some signs Animal crossing, drive slow?
KS: That decision is not my decision, we are just presenting I guess possible solutions. I
think you make a good point. The fencing is not so much to save animals. It’s more for
public safety I guess so nobody gets hurt. I do agree that I see most of the road kill when
you get the big moon, when the animals are moving around at night time. I don’t have,
maybe we can match up the data from the department of transportation on their clean
up and stuff. Go check out whatever the moon phase is in. I mean I guess that’s my
own anecdotal evidence. That I notice as well that the animals move around more at
night, when they can see more and their more likely to get hit. Yeah, I think you make a
good point. We’re not… Our report is not to we say do this thing, it’s to say these are
the options are and the cost associated with those options.
AG: Has there been any fatalities that were cause by these animals?
KS: Not that I’m aware of and that’s a good point. Yeah, not that I’m aware of.
AA: Anymore questions or comments for presenter? Not seeing any.
District 5 - Kanalu-some of that stuff are in your meeting sounds pretty good. I guess
your conversation can open up more or discussion about that in the near future.
23
KS: Just so you know our report is due by the beginning at the next legislature session. We’re
trying to draft something in the next month or two, I guess maybe I can share the final
report with you guys, before it goes to legislature.
AA: District 5 - That sounds good. Coming up in our next meeting we will be discussing the
Pittman Robinson Wildlife Restoration Program Game Management Program. It’s a good
one and we’re going be having more discussion about game management and stuff like
that. We will try to have something for KS -
KS: I will not be ready for a final report by next month so.
AA: We’ll try to be ready…
AG: Hey Kanalu Austin District 6 – since we have you on here, is there any updates on that
rifle area next to Pohakuloa turning into archery for you by next month if not the following
month.
KS: I will not be ready for a final report by next month so.
AA: We’ll try to be ready…
AG: Hey Kanalu Austin District 6 – since we have you on here, is there any updates on that
rifle area next to Pohakuloa turning into archery?
SW: I’m sorry but that subject is not on the agenda, it can’t be discussed.
KS: Can I discuss that as part of this. Because it is kind of involved with this report that we are
doing.
SW: It has to be stuck with what is on the agenda
KS: Just tell me yes or no. One thing that I presented was a rule change as part of this report
on the goats, so that he is asking involves with that rule change.
SW: As long as it is connected with your ungulate management plan task force.
KS: Correct.
SW: Yes.
KS: So, you – We had included this ungulate rule changes as part of this goat task report, to
let them know that we are trying to manage animals on the side of the road using that,
part of the rule changes was changing from rifle to archery in that small area, across
from the Gill Kahele recreational area. Our administration it’s kind of up in the air right
now, just that part of the rule changes, is up in the air right now. And our
administration direction was to not change it but to keep it the way it is, but I have been
getting some phone calls from other hunters about it and since I got that direction from
my administration, I been just forwarding those phone calls to them, since we have
been working on this for a while. We have had everybody support I thought most
people support. But I think you guys call our administration and discuss with them, they
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might soften up, and do what we are planning to do. I think our direction they want to
keep it as a normal recreation.
AG: Thank you.
BL: Information on the task force September, muzzle loading season. Are you going to be
selling tags at the check in station or are they going to get their tags on line at the office
before season starts?
(In audible)
KS: Thanks, you guys. If I’m done, I got to run.
AA: Yeah, you, good. Thank you. Moving to new business.
7. NEW BUSINESS:
a. Discussion and Decision Making: regarding presentation by Thomas Gilmore, DOH
Remedial Project Manager, seeking public comment on “Soil Remediation Plan for
Hakalau Beach Park.”
SW: So, I believe the reason why this is put on the agenda. Because the GMAC did not talk
about if they wanted if they wanted to do anything in regards to the presentation GMAC
as an entity wanted to do a letter provide any king support for any of the option and that’s
why it’s on the agenda.
AA: Basically to make a motion to draft up a thank you letter and draft up a letter and to open
up a discussion to support section 5 b.
SW: Technically it should be asking GMAC to have support for a particular opinion, which I
think that GMAC was discussing 5b at the last committee, just never voting on support it
and after GMAC has recommendation to follow up with a secondary motion drafting a
letter.
RD: This is Rober Duerr - Corporation council I got a question.
SW: Okay?
RD: So, a simple thank you letter to a presenter, excuse me a thank you letter to a presenter
was submitted as an agenda item.
SW: Okay that’s not a question.
RD: Excuse me I’m not finish.
SW: Okay.
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RD: Are you saying that agenda item as in fact is not?
SW: This is the agenda item??
RD: Thank you, that’s very clear of you. And quite frankly I’m bringing it up to OIPA. Is that
protocol? Or have you overstep your bounds?
SW: I’m sorry – are you questioning my authority as corporation counsel?
RD: No, what I am questioning is your decision on an agenda item that was submitted that
this is now..
SW: This….
AA: Okay AAAAAAAAAAh
RD: I’ll put it in writing.
(In audible)
SW: You more than welcome………
AA: The public can’t be hearing this kind of conversation so anything else. The discussion of
supporting or whatever your guys’ opinion is on the soil remediation plan that we had last
month. Everybody remember that meeting beside Justin and Brian and Austin, I think?
SW: So, the point is GMAC want to do anything regarding this particular presentation
submitting any kind of letter there needs to be a motion heard in meeting.
AA: Right.
SW: So, this is the opportunity for that motion to be heard.
AA: Can we have a motion to discuss.
SW: You need to come to the conclusion first, so you can what’s the proposal. So, pick your
conclusion. What’s your proposal ?
AA: The proposal is to draft up a letter in support of the soil remediation plan.
SW: Which part?
AA: Section 5 b.
SW: Someone needs to make that motion.
AA: Get a motion? Ok, move on.
b. Discussion and Decision Making: regarding presentation by Kim Kozuma, DVM,
Animal Disease Control Branch, Hawai’i Department of Agriculture, “Presentation
Regarding Diseases in Game Animals.”
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AA: Can we have a motion to open up discussion.
SW: It’s to draft, because you wanted this on the agenda as well because there was a proposal.
AA: To draft a thank you letter to Kim Kozuma.
SW: Yes.
AA: Motion? Nope, moving on.
c. Discussion and Decision Making: Capital Improvement Plans for Wailoa Small Boat
Harbor, presented by Commissioner Robert Duerr.
SW: Do you want to draft a letter for this? Do you want GMAC approval on this? Do you want
them support it? Any particular recommendation?
RD: I make a motion to table this.
SW: Is there any second:
NR: District 7 - I second that motion.
AA: Robert made a motion to table this Section c. Second by Natalie.
SW: Discussion first.
AA: Any discussion…. hearing none.
District 1 Robert Duerr - Aye
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio - Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
AA: All in favor say Aye --- All in favor --- 7 ayes, no nays, one absent, motion passes.
d. Discussion: “Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Program Game
Management Program FY17-FY21,” published by DLNR D ivision of Forestry and
Wildlife, discussion lead by Chair Abraham Antonio.
AA: We are the game management advisory commission for the county of Hawaii, we also
have a Game Management Plan from the State, we as an advisory commission can look
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through at this packet of 109 everybody got it with the game management packet this
month a little bit of homework for you guys next month. Because I’m trying to get a game
management person come in next month so we can have an open so he can present to
us, so we can be a little more educated he does not work for the State, he is from also
from a University if you open up in the section in here and mines is all highlighted in
yellow, I guess you guys can’t see, but Hawaii game management program, budget
schedule, job descriptions, State of Hawaii Game program planning coordination, just go
through the whole thing. Game habitat management. Hawaii County East Hawaii and
West Hawaii. Just go through this and prepare for next month.
SW: So, do you want to table this as well to next month? So GMAC can discuss this? So can
continue this to next month’s agenda.
AA: Can I have a motion to table this?
NR: Natalie District 7 I make a motion to table Section D till next month.
RD: Second.
AA: Any discussion. Hearing none.
AA: All those in favor by voice vote,
District 1 Robert Duerr - Aye
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio - Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
AA: Seven ayes, no nays, one absent motion carries.
8. OLD BUSINESS:
a. GMAC 2023 Second Quarter Report to Mayor Roth and County Council. Commissioner Robert
Duerr
RD: We have a report, essentially it was a little different in the past. It went through the
district, so that the council people who representing the district understands some of
needs of the district. The report concluded a pull out of the presenters during PDF so if
people wanted to dig in the Laupahoehoe issue or the game animal disease issue they
had specifically for county council people.
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SW: Just a point of order, do you want to do a motion to accept your report? We’ve already
entered discussion.
RD: Motion to accept report.
BL: Second.
AA: Robert Duerr made a motion to accept his report Brian Ley made a second any
discussion?
RD: I think our report should get more board base it should go to council but we can also
inform State and Federal officials. I think quite frankly that representative Jill Tokuda
and others in the US Congress would be interested in GMAC and what we are doing and
I think also legislators some of which have been real supporters should also get copies of
reports from GMAC so they understand what’s going on. This can happen in 2 ways,
one way once the report is put into public record, which is this commission, then a
member of the public or member of the press, or a GMAC commissioner not having
being a GMAC official, and stating so, can now let the public and other officials and
other people know as to what is going on.
AA: As per our charter we only send these reports to the mayor and county council. Now at
this time I shall hand over to our Corporation Counsel
SW: Deputy Silva Won Deputy corporation counsel – I just wanted to underscore for the
commission that according to the Charter, just as the chair was stating. This particular
quarterly report is required by the Charter to be provided to the County Council as well
as the mayor because the mayor is overseeing this particular commission. As far as -
Anything that can be considered lobbying, this commission acting as commission --
needs to be weary of since your specifically you’re not specially you’re not allowed to
do. However, is the activity of providing this to county council is specifically outlined in
our charter that is good to go. As far as sharing public information and public things are
on the website. That is open to the public any person has an interest in them they can
go the county website to get this report as well as all other GMAC written reports. The
want to look at the oral reports they’re going to have to review the minutes. But I would
caution the commission doing from trying to direct any grassroots lobbying through
testimony. (In audible)
RD: Doesn’t it state the commission can inform State, Local, and Federal agencies?
SW: Yes, and you do that through your letters.
RD: Would informing, once it goes to the Mayor and County Council, would it be within the
code that the reports could be provided to State?
SW: No, no…
RD: So, you’re saying the reports cannot be provided to State and Federal officials.
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SW: No that’s not what I’m saying, what I am saying this particular report does not have an
avenue to get disseminated wider than the Mayor and the County Council. This
commission can on specific items that determines send its advice to targeted agencies
for a targeted purpose.
AA: So, as a member of the public can share. Let say Jill Tokuda wanted to look into the
things we are doing they just go to the public website. So maybe someone from the
public can say you should look into this, something as simple as that.
SW: The public rights are the public rights, I’m not here to advice the public. My concern is
that the more you repeated here at here in commission of the public rights it can be
viewed as --- in audible???? That’s all my comments.
RD: I’ve got a question. I’m a journalist member of big island press club and a member of
outdoor writer’s association. When this becomes a public record. Do I have the right to
disseminate this to whoever I want to decimate it?
SW: I do not advice Mr. Duerr as a member of the public.
RD: Thank you.
SW: I advise Robert Duerr as commissioner of GMAC. All the advice I provide is your role as
a commissioner. Okay
AA: All in favor of accepting the quarterly report, second quarter…
District 1 Robert Duerr - Aye
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio - Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
AA: Quarterly report accepted, motion passes, 7 ayes, No nays, one absent.
b. Drafted Letter of Gratitude to House Rep. Mark Nakashima for introducing bills of GMAC
interest, Commissioner Leomana Turalde.
AA: Section B Drafted Letter of Gratitude to House Rep Mark Nakashima for introducing bills
of GMAC interest, in 2022- 2023 Commissioner Leomana Turalde – The letter is drafted
Leomana was supposed to make some edits and this has been dragging on and
everybody except Justin has seen the letter, unless Justin you have seen it in our
packets? Here in our packets
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SW: So, again you have to make a motion then have a discussion
AA: So, can I have a motion.
NR: Natalie district 7 - I make a motion to accept the letter.
AG: I second that.
AA: Natalie district 7 made a motion to accept the Mark Nakashima letter Austin second it.
All in favor
SW: Discussion first.
AA: Any discussion – Not seeing any.
SW: Point of order. I believe you asked a question to Mr. Ackerman regarding reading the
letter?
AA: Justin did you get the chance to read the letter.
JA: No, I have not.
SW: Can you read it now.
NR. It was emailed as one of the attachments.
JA: Let me, reading now….
SW: Commission Ackerman can you give us a thumbs up when you’re done reading that?
JA: I actually don’t see that specific letter in the meeting pack in the email, there’s one to
senator Inouye, but not
?? That’s the one.
JA: That’s not how it’s titled in the agenda.
AA: At this time, we’re going to let Sylvia read the letter.
SW: So dated July 31, 2023 which of course will have to be updated address to Senator
Lorraine Inouye
SW: That’s the one that was part of the packet though.
BK: Chair
AA: Yes Barbara,
th
BK: The one from Representative Nakashima is dated May 16 and this is the one that was
presented by Leomana, then he pulled it to say he was going to revise it and turn it
more into an educational letter. I’ve not received that letter.
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SW: Okay - Question then Barbara did you provide the main letter to the packet?
BK: No not the main letter. There is some confusion I was informed it was sent to me in
some kind of App. I don’t have it I’m not doing apps. Leomana has not answered me.
So, I just took a photo of it and sent it to you chair. The May 16, letter is to Represent
Nakashima you want me to read it.
RD: Made a motion to…
SW: Natalie do you withdraw your motion.
NR: Yes mama.
AA: Robert made a motion to table.
BL: Second.
AA: Any discussion? Not seeing any…
District 1 Robert Duerr – Aye
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio - Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
AA: Motion passes,7 ayes, No nays, 1 absent - table section B Old Business till next month.
c. Discussion and Decision Making: Regarding recommendations provided by the Investigative
Committee Report Re: Rules and Regulations Related to Lobster Harvesting and Sale.
AA: We had a report came in from Austin and his investigative group. Does the commission
want to carry and as an advisory to the department of aquatic resources?
AG: Yes.
SW: Austin why don’t you go ahead and make that motion?
AG: Austin Griffey district 6 I would like to make a motion to send a letter of advisory – what
was that division again?
AA: Division of DLNR division of aquatic resources.
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AG: I would like to make a motion to send a letter of advisory to the division of DLNR
Division of Aquatic Resources.
SW: What was your advisory providing?
AG: To shorten lobster season from 8 to 6 months’ bag limit of 10 per person and illegalize
ban the sale of lobsters.
NR: Natalie District 7 second.
AA: Austin made a motion to draft an advisory letter on his proposed regulations NR second
open for discussion
RD: Not to harvest from the same hole and the same season and no spearing and taking of
female lobster.
AG: Yes, we can add that in that too.
AA: The sale of the lobster is you saying private or commercial.
AG: Ban on all sale commercial and private we want no body selling our lobsters. There is
not enough of them out there.
SW: Do you want to make a discussion to support that point?
AG: Yes, I would like to make a discussion on the topic. I believe that pretty much the
quantity of the lobsters is going down is diminishing a lot Just from what I’ve seen the
boats I dive for lobstesr every season. a lot I see divers hitting the same coastal
shoreline night after night. Cause I live on the cliff side where I can see divers. I go out
on my porch 9- 10 pm and I see the lights hitting the same spots once a hole 60 – 70
lobsters down to 2 lobsters down to zero. So, it’s like I see guys on the side of the road
selling them. I spoke a lot of guys in my area, they are against as well it’s always been
an issue in the past. You’ll never see a local on the side of the road selling lobsters. It’s
always a mainlander or somebody who is not from here. To me it’s a stab in the heart.
When I see that on the side of the road. When I go dive lobsters I go dive for my family,
or dive for the kupuna who cannot go harvest lobsters for themselves as well. The
tradition is fading the Kupuna are not really kids growing up that are learning tradition
and being able harvest for themselves for their family as well. So we got spread
awareness and slow down of the taking and selling I know the people cannot all go out
and dive lobster. But there also a lot of other things to eat you can buy at the grocery
store besides lobster. You can buy main lobster at the grocery store; you don’t have to
buy our spiny lobsters the locals use pretty much as a delicacy it’s a treat for us to have.
We don’t want to go and take 50- 60 lobsters and have them rot in the freezer. Cause
when you put a lobster in the freezer it pretty much in my opinion, becomes no good.
Because when a lobster dies, it releases a chemical and makes the meat rot and it’s not
edible any more. So, when you dive lobster you want harvest that lobster it alive and
put them in the pot and eat right away then and there. So, when you commercial it they
just ripping the tails and selling the tails and selling them alive as well. Diminishing the
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population, so when you have something that commercial like that its giving them
incentive to just take and take and they are not replenishing or doing anything to help
replenish sthe areas as well I notice on the whole south Kona shoreline the population is
declining It’s a safe place to dive and it gets pounded by guys from all over the Island so
that’s becoming real scarce I don’t want to see this Island place to become like Oahu
where there is barely anything left.
AA: We need a motion to table this till next month again.
SW: Unless you’re ready to vote this now.
AA: I think it’s open to a broader discussion because I not saying I support the sale of the
lobster. Just because of previous meetings, here and outside that you’re going to have
flak from people that come back and say your affecting my income. Austin may not see
the local selling them, but there is local on this side of the Island that sell them. Not
banning it all together. Bag limit to come to that financial part. When we talk about
selling it becomes a broader conversation.
RD: Chair to the point where Austin had a public investigative group. Public had a chance to
tune in it. He’s made that report he’s got made recommendation. If put the
recommendations that up or down if there more conversation need to have, they let
the public come forward and let them they can comment with this group or comment to
DAR. We are private citizens, nobody is getting paid, we need to move work forward. I
say we bring it up for a vote. There is a motion on the table.
SW: So, if you want more discussion, we should table it. Once you kill a motion you cannot
revive. If you want…
NR: There is the motion on the floor, Austin what you want to do?
AG: We can table it for next month. Cause we are not going to be able to address the letter.
AA: Maybe.
SW: Do want to table or vote?
AG: What is our time frame right now?
AA: After 11:00.
AG: Let’s table it.
AA: Call for the vote.
District 1 Robert Duerr – abstain
District 2 Vacant
District 3 Leomana Turalde – Absent
District 4 Brian Ley - Aye
District 5 Abraham Antonio - Aye
District 6 Austin Griffey – Aye
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District 7 Natalie Reynolds – Aye
District 8 Courtney Okamura – Aye
District 9 Justin Ackerman – Aye
AA: Motion passes to table Old Business item c with 6 ayes, one abstained and one absent.
9. ANNOUNCEMENTS:
Next meeting will be on September 19, 2023, at 9:00 am to 11:00 am at 25 Aupuni St., Hilo.
10. ADJOURNMENT: (11:00 am):
A motion was made by A. Griffey at 11:04 am to adjourn the meeting.
Seconded by N. Reynolds, motion passed unanimously by voice vote.
Respectfully submitted by,
Barbara Kossow
Secretary
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