2024-05-24 Merit Appeals Board Minutes

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Merit Appeals Board May 24, 2024 And there's the (inaudible) judiciary has a binder about 4-inches thick on pro se —how to handle pro se's. It's a real problem in court. Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. I (inaudible) certain things that are beyond our control. MR. WISEMAN: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: And I think the informational sheet serves to help both sides because you heard this morning, the County attorney had questions, and we're not going to go into the merits, which the informational sheet will help both of them both parties. MR. KUNZ: I think if —today was a really great example of how understanding procedures not only the lay person but even counsel —and if there's a matter of semantic issues on this sheet —one, would we not be able to act as guideposts during the process, which I think Ms. Bond, kind of, clarified if we say, "Just tell your story." I think because I have a feeling it would be difficult to get around some of the jargon without us dissecting this another time versus if we understand that we create those guideposts, as needed, and there's five of us that are able to, kind of —should be able to catch that. I'd feel comfortable with that versus if we're always having to re-create the moment. And I get, Gay, your point completely because it isI could read this and go, "What does that mean?" So, I can imagine any layperson having the same difficulty, but I believe it would be our responsibility to set that little groundwork as we go forward with each individual. `Cause I think we already know, certain sections, they're going to get caught and it's really up to us to help clarify it. I think that makes it more fair. Thank you. MR. WISEMAN: Yeah. The (inaudible) state of any layperson coming into a governmental hearing whether it's court, here, or otherwise —is intimidation —absent the constant litigator who just loves to litigate. We had one in the —well, you weren't there, J—but the Ethics was iton the Planning Ethics or something. I mean, there was an appellant there who just appeals everything. She was really a constant litigant. In fact, there's one term called "vexatious" litigator, which I declared one time and they appealed it —and the Circuit Court of Appeals actually affirmed that —and what that means is the court would not accept any filings from that person unless it's approved first. But, again, going backso, someone coming in here —it is intimidation. But I think all of us have that awareness and we try to comfort the people, so —and that's all it's going that's what it's going to take. Yeah. MS. BOND: So, it's almost like we should say or defer giving their opening statement —"my mom made me say this" —kind of a thing. So, I mean, if she really insists that we put it in there, then I guess we should put it in there. But, once again, as soon as you start adding word salad into something that people don't understand, then it defeats the purpose of this. Page 26