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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-02-25 Merit Appeals Board MinutesREGULAR SESSION Merit Appeals Board Hilo Council Chambers Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401 Hilo, Hawaii February 25, 2025 (Tuesday) Call to Order (Item 1) The regular meeting of the Merit Appeals Board, County of Hawaii, was called to order at 9:00 a.m. by Chair Gabriella M. Cabanas, at the Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, Hilo, Hawaii, on Tuesday, February 25, 2025. Roll Call — Present Ms. Gabriella M. Cabanas, Chair Ms. Suzi Bond, Vice -Chair Ms. Gay Mathews, Member Also Present Mr. J Yoshimoto, Assistant Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel Ms. Sommer J. Tokihiro, Director, Human Resources Department Mr. James E. Halvorson, Deputy Attorney General, Department of the Attorney General (via Zoom) Mr. Justin C. Lee, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel Ms. Sherilyn K. Tavares, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel Mr. Ted. H. S. Hong, Esquire, Attorney at Law Mr. Lyndon P. K. Turner, Automotive Storekeeper (TA to Construction Equipment Repair Supervisor 11), Public Works Department Mr. Jonah Kaye, Water Safety Officer II, Fire Department Mr. John Kaye, Public Member Mr. Kazuo S. K. L, Todd, Chief, Fire Department Ms. Glynis Yamada, Secretary -Reporter, Human Resources Department Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 Call to Order (Item 1) CHR. CABANAS: Good morning, everyone. The regular meeting of the Merit Appeals Board is called to order on this day, February 25 h, 2025, at 9 a.m. We have quorum with three Board members present. I'm Gabriella Cabanas, Chair of the Merit Appeals Board —along with me is our Vice -Chair, Suzi Bond. MS. BOND: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. And also, Gay Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning, Gay. We also have our Assistant Corporation Counsel, Mr. J Yoshimoto. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Good morning, everyone. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. And Glynis Yamada, our Secretary -Reporter. MS. YAMADA: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. And sitting in the gallery are Mr. Justin Lee, from the Office of the Corporation Counsel; and Ms. Sommer Tokihiro, Director of the Department of Human Resources. Addendum to Agenda (Item 2) CHR. CABANAS: We do have an addendum to the agenda, I've been informed. It is Communication number 25-01.01, submitted by —while we are obtaining the communication numbers from our Secretary -Reporter, I'd like to add present to our meeting today is Mr. Jim Halvorson, our Deputy Attorney General, appearing via Zoom from Oahu. Good morning, Jim. MR. HALVORSON: Good morning, everyone. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. Okay, so going back to the addendum to the agenda, we have two communications submitted by Ted Hong, Esquire. They are Communication number 25-01.01 and 25-02.02—okay, correction. Glynis has corrected the communication number the second one is 25-02.01, from Ted Hong, Esquire. Mr. Hong has a matter at the Third Circuit Court in Hilo, on February 25 h, 2025, at 9 a.m., which is right now. And so, he's asking that these communications be pushed back to the end of the Board's agenda for Mr. Kaye and Mr. Turner. Page 2 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 So, may I have a motion to add these two communications to our agenda? MS. MATHEWS: Move to accept. MS. BOND: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. Also sitting in the Councilroom the Hilo Council Chambers, of the Hawaii County Building, at 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, in Hilo, is Ms. Sherilyn Tavares. Good morning, Sherilyn, thank you for joining us today. Statements from the Public (Item 3) CHR. CABANAS: Are there any "Statements from the Public" on any of the agenda items? Approval of Minutes (Item 4) May 24, 2024; November 26, 2024; And December 16, 2024; January 16, 2025; January 16, 2025 (Closed Session); And January 30, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: If not, I'll move along to the "Approval of Minutes" —and we have six meeting minutes on the agenda. The dates of the meetings are May 24, 2024; November 26, 2024; December 16, 2024; January 16, 2025; January 16, 2025, closed session; and January 30'', 2025. Has the Board members had the opportunity to review the meeting minutes? Any corrections to any of them? Okay, for the January 16, 2025, minutesI just want to raise a question on page 6, January 16, 2025, meeting minutes. This is the closed session, so it'sI think it's a separate tab. Yeah, because it's a closed session. I just wanted to ask MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well, it's closed session. CHR. CABANAS: The meeting minutes yes. Page 3 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MR. YOSHIMOTO: So, you should discuss that in closed session as well. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, okay but my question was just a general one. Mr. Turner's job title is listed as a "Automotive Storekeeper" but he was TA as the Construction Equipment Repair Supervisor II. So, my question is, do we need to notate that or keep it as "Storekeeper" which is his permanent classification during this time period? Mr. Halvorson, what do you suggest —keep it as "Automotive Storekeeper" or reflect it —because he was on TA during this time period. MR. HALVORSON: Do both. CHR. CABANAS: Do both? Okay. MR. HALVORSON: Put down the "Storekeeper" and then in parenthesis "TA to" the other position. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. And I do have another —let's see —is he listed as a "Storekeeper" for all the January 30''I would have to check. I made some tabs as I read through it. MS. MATHEWS: Madam Chair? CHR. CABANAS: Yes? MS. MATHEWS: Could we just make a global correction to all minutes —all six minutes CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. MATHEWS: if this is not showing as you're suggesting? CHR. CABANAS: Yes. So MS. MATHEWS: That way, you're not having to look for it. CHR. CABANAS: Yes. So, can I make aso can I have a motion, please? MS. MATHEWS: So moved that we accept with the correction on the title for all six minutes. CHR. CABANAS: If Mr. Turner's name is listed that we add the "TA" title. MS. MATHEWS: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: In addition to the "Automotive Storekeeper" MS. MATHEWS: Correct. Page 4 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: because he is TA. Okay. MS. MATHEWS: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Is there a second? MS. BOND: I'll second that. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Motion carried for the approval of the meeting minutes and with the addition of Mr. Turner's TA job title where he is listed as "Automotive Storekeeper." Okay, thank you very much. Review of Executive Session Minutes May 24, 2024; November 26, 2024; And January 30, 2025 (Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board anticipates convening one or more executive meetings regarding the above matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4 And 92-5(a)(4), For The Purpose Of Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting) CHR. CABANAS: Now we have the executive session minutes for May 24 h, 2024; November 26'', 2024; and January 30'', 2025. Okay, have you had the opportunity to review the executive session meeting minutes? So, when you're readyI could have a motion made to accept and file the executive session meeting minutes. MS. BOND: So moved. MS. MATHEWS: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. Page 5 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried to accept and file the executive session meeting minutes for the dates listed on the agenda. Director's Report (Item 5) MAB Quarterly Reports: October - December 2024; MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: January 2025; MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: February 2025; Current Vacancies In The County of Hawaii CHR. CABANAS: We are now on the "Director's Report"so, Sommer, if you could come up forward. (At this time, Ms. Sommer J. Tokihiro, Director, Human Resources Department, came forward.) CHR. CABANAS: Good morning, Sommer. MS. TOKIHIRO: Hi, good morning. MAB Quarterly Reports: October - December 2024 CHR. CABANAS: So, today, we're going to do a little catch-up. So, the first thing listed is MAB's Quarterly Report for October through December 2024. Jim, we're going to hear the "Director's Report" so do you want to pause for a while and Glynis will contact you when we're ready for the two Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law? MR. HALVORSON: Sure, that's good for me. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, Glynis will contact you. MR. HALVORSON: Okay. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, thank you very much for standing by. Okay, Sommer, when —do you have any questions, first of all, Board members? Okay, go ahead, Sommer. MS. TOKIHIRO: I barely remember the last quarter, right, after (inaudible) December. I apologize that I haven't been able to attend a couple of meetings due to ongoing collective bargaining negotiations. And so, I believe that that's why this quarterly report is being submitted a little later, but for the first half of the fiscal year, there's a lot happening in HR. I'm happy to Page 6 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 answer questions if you have questions about the quarterly report. But, generally, this is more the summary of all the detail that we're working on each month. In December, we did provide a HR Boot Camp Training to the Mayor's new Cabinet to bring them up to speed on our processes and procedures and provide the opportunity for a meet -and - greet, so that members of the Cabinet would be —come familiar with the different Managers in our divisions, so they know who their points of contact are for the questions that they have —and then the areas of responsibility for each of our divisions. CHR. CABANAS: So, I just noticed that —okay, so for the Police Officer I Recruit recruitment for October through December. So, there's been a change —right —in the process that DHR only administers the written exam and no longer the performance test. MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct. The agility test is being administered by the Police Department. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, has —will the objective change the objective listed because it's only the written exam. So, after the written exam, is the eligible list being established and the performance test being part of their interview and selection process? MS. TOKIHIRO: I would have to clarify at what point that —how they take those agility scores because I believe we establish the eligible list from review of the application and the written examination. And then, that's referred to the department and then as part of their selection process, they administer the agility, and then the other steps in their process. CHR. CABANAS: Right. `Cause the performance test was part of the examination process before the list was established in the past. So MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah —while we were —well, Human Resources was doing the agility. CHR. CABANAS: Right. MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct. CHR. CABANAS: So, now it might be more —what's the word —appropriate maybe, for that component of the agility test, which we call "performance test" vice versa terminology but — would be part of their interview and selection process. `Cause there was never a score to the agility test. It was pass/fail—and then, they get placed on the list in accordance with their written test score. But now, it's changed so I would think that —are there other recruitments that you would have a performance test for? `Cause there's no longer Fire —Fire does their own performance test. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes, no other performance tests that are being administered by the Department of Human Resources. Page 7 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: Yes. You may, kind of, want to look at this MS. TOKIHIRO: Okay. CHR. CABANAS: —for the MS. TOKIHIRO: Noted —I'll talk to Michelle about that. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah —okay. And then, NeoGov doesn't I see there they have an enhancement, so now there's no breakdown of the applications by type of recruitment? MS. TOKIHIRO: I think we're working with —Michelle is working with NeoGov to see if there's new reports that are capturing this information —it may be captured a little bit differently. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TOKIHIRO: But she's working with NeoGov to get more information on how to run the reports to extract the information that we were previously providing CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TOKIHIRO: So, working on that. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Any other —any questions, Board members? If not, do I have a motion to accept and file this MAB Quarterly Report for October through December 2024? We're going to take it separately, all the reports, so —I'll need a motion for this one. MS. MATHEWS: So moved. MS. BOND: I second. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? MS. MATHEWS: I have one quick question. CHR. CABANAS: Yes? MS. MATHEWS: The Vehicle Equipment Report —he's not counting the cat, but the human interactions. Do we have any kind of security cameras or is there any consequence for anybody doing this? I realize that there's —it's hard to keep people in line. I was just wondering if anybody —if there's ever been any consequence for any of these actions? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, at different facilities, there are certain facilities that the County has where there's security cameras where we can readily obtain the footage. That's not the case at all of our various sites. Page 8 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 So, I believe when the incidents occur, if security camera footage is available, they'll review that. And I think if there's a claim to be made, it gets referred to Corporation Counsel for follow-up. MS. MATHEWS: `Cause County's self -insured on all of this, are they not? MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct. MS. MATHEWS: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. December 2024; MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: January 2025; MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: February 2025; Current Vacancies In The County of Hawaii CHR. CABANAS: Moving along to the next report—MAB Divisional —Monthly Divisional Activity Report for the month of January 2025. Okay, let's look at that one. MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: January 2025 MS. TOKIHIRO: In January our Personnel and Organizational Development Division was able to bring in a trainer from Grant Management USA regarding that provided training on how to search for and apply for grants, which was a great training because so many of our departments now are looking at grants and finding more ways to supplement our own funding. So, that was an exciting training for everyone to be —for people to be able to participate in, so that they can get guidance on how to search that out. So, that was exciting in January. We're always looking for ways to supplement training that is provided by the County with other offerings that we don't have available, but that we can bring people in to provide additional information. A lot of our divisions in HR are really busy at this point, working on the new software that's going to replace our current software, which is FRESH or Eden. And so, working on the Human Resources Module, we have meetings every week and they're broken down by these various Page 9 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 modules to address all of the information about all of our positions, all of our employees —work schedules, benefits, collective bargaining agreements, how we're going to enter time and attendance, accrual of vacation and sick leave. So, that's taken —it takes an extraordinary amount of time for the HR staff even amongst all of their other responsibilities. So, I just kind of wanted to give a little shout out to HR for the months, and months, and months of effort that is being put into really building this program. When we were looking for the software, I think I even imagined it in my head that we were going to purchase this program and we're going to input all our information and good to go. And that's not what it is. It's an Oracle software and our Implementor is a company called CherryRoad, and we're, basically, building it. So, we spend a lot of time in these sessions helping the developers to understand what our processes are, to understand current processes, understand workflows because the idea is increased efficiency, of course —and so, we need to make some adaptations as we go through this process. So, that's taken a lot of time but it's supposed to be something that will go live January 2026. So, a lot of divisions in Human Resources are involved in that —actually, all of them because there's some part of it that touches every division. So, they've the whole department has really had to come together to support one another in providing all the information that the company needs —making sure that the information that we're providing is accurate so that we can develop the best system possible. CHR. CABANAS: Does it involve some transfer of data from FRESH to this new software? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes. So, all the information that can be transferred is being transferred. Because technology has changed so much in the last 30 years that we've had FRESH, we there's new information that we need to add to it. So, it'sin order to help it to do all of the things that we would like it to do for efficiency purposes —and so, the things that we're able to extract from FRESH and transfer is that's great. But it's making sure that that data is accurate and then providing the additional data that may be we weren't specifically tracking previously, such as everybody's individual work schedule —my work schedule is 7:45 to 4:30; but someone else in my office could have a work schedule that — where they start at 7 a.m.or our police officers/fire fighters —rotating shifts, et cetera. So, that kind of information that we aren't currently tracking that takes a lot of effort to compile that data. And we, sort of, at this point, have to pick and choose which are the most important features to work on right now and identify those which"Okay, that'll be great to have, but we may need to do that later because we got to push for this January 2026 go live date". MS. BOND: Is that something that you could add once it's already up and running? Page 10 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes. So, that's what we're looking at is that ongoing support as well. So, the Implementor will spend —will be with us for a period of time after the go live, to make sure the system is working well. But, beyond that, making those additional changes, which may be beyond what we're able to do they're going to train us in how to make certain adjustments to the system, if we need to, say, add a job code or add something, right —minor changes. But something as far as, like, work schedules —we'll have to evaluate ongoing support from the company to continue to do that, `cause that's going to be more development than probably we're capable of. So, some things yes, we can add on later, but it may require additional support services. So, we're evaluating with IT as well their ability to support us and provide assistance with the ongoing management and update of the system. CHR. CABANAS: Will this replace the manual processing of the Form 13's the paper. MS. TOKIHIRO: It is intended to. Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, wonderful. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: And so, if that happens, what's the impact on the Transaction's staff? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, they're still going to have to be auditing the information. So, just because it isn't paper, doesn't mean that it won't have to be audited. So, we're still going to the role will be the same, but in a slightly different format. CHR. CABANAS: So, they'll have, like, internal checkpoints? MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct. CHR. CABANAS: So MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah —Approver 1, Approver 2 CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. TOKIHIRO: that sort of CHR. CABANAS: Okay, good. MS. TOKIHIRO: So, that's what we talk about in the workflows and designating who those people are, right —who approves a timesheet versus who approves an invoice for payment — because this is —it's not just a Human Resources software, it also encompasses our Budget and Finance as well. So all linked together. Page 11 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: What about the impact with NeoGov—any transfer of data? MS. TOKIHIRO: No. So, we're going to continue to use NeoGov and it's going to be there was the possibility of implementing an interface between the two programs, but what we found through the Form 13 auditing process is sometimes when people are completing their NeoGov profile, they are not using, at times, their legal name —which we're verifying with, like, their I9, et cetera. And so, rather than have an interface from NeoGov into this new software, we're electing to keep them separate because we need to make sure that what goes into the HR software is the person's legal name and all that correct documentation. So, rather than go into the system and have to correct incorrect information and risk not doing that accurately —we've elected to keep them separate. CHR. CABANAS: Well, refresh my memory —doesn't —don't —doesn't NeoGov require their legal name? The instructions state, right —legal name? MS. TOKIHIRO: It does, but there's nothing that verifies that. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. So, we've had some inconsistencies with —and peopleI'm not saying they don't understand the difference between their legal name, but I think sometimes people can go"No, but I've been married my whole life" or "My driver's license says this" or whatever and it's not technically correct as far as what their legal name is. CHR. CABANAS: What's happening with the radio hiring campaign? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, we reached out to all of the radio stations and got quotes. And so, we were ready to move forward with a radio advertisement. And I reached out to the Mayor's Office to ask if the Mayor would be interested in doing the voice recording because he's very active in social media and promotion. And so, I reached out to the Mayor's Office and we developed a proposed script, but I've been told that he wanted to put it on hold temporarily. I don't know if he's reassessing the script itself. We did a general script to, kind of, just generate interest in coming to our website. So, directing people to our website to look at all of our job openings, mention some of the benefits, and do that as an initial campaign. And our intent was to then do follow-up spots in certain districts that would highlight the jobs —specific job openings in those areas. But the Mayor may want to highlight specific openings now. So, I'm just working with the Mayor's Office and his media team, to see what direction he wants to take that in. Page 12 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TOKIHIRO: So, we'll reconnect and if he doesn't want to do the voice over, then we can have the radio station do that first `cause we do really want to move forward with different avenues of getting the word out. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, `cause this is a good time with Merrie Monarch coming up. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: And we have the global attention for the festival. MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct, yeah. CHR. CABANAS: People start coming to our island as early as —well, Merrie Monarch starts April 20''so as early as end of March —some are already here. I just note that —'cause it says, "Radio Hiring Campaign to begin in January." I didn't hear anything, so I was just wondering. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. So, we are definitely working on that. And then, we also went recently —and met with the team at Na Leo TV to see what types of services they may be able to offer as far as promotion of our Jobs Website. CHR. CABANAS: Anything with television? MS. TOKIHIRO: Beyond Na Leo —no. CHR. CABANAS: No, besides Na Leo. MS. TOKIHIRO: No. No other television spots at this point. MS. BOND: I actually noticed that KHON has started a thing where it's, like, "Job of the Week" —or "Job of the Day." And it's, like, they've been doing for different counties. I don't know if you guys are involved in that but you might want to reach out to them and see if we can get "Job of the Day" MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, that would be great. I'll talk to Michelle and have her follow-up with them. MS. BOND: It's one of those early morning thingsI see it go by"Oh, look." MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. Page 13 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: And especially K well, I don't know if KGMB has it for Merrie Monarch this year but Sunrise News, they would have a panel early in the morning interviewing —and maybe they can have the Mayor do a little campaign there. But, yeah, just food for thought. MS. TOKIHIRO: Thank you. MS. MATHEWS: Have you had any challenges because of the changes in the federal administrations DEI approach or grants, etcetera? MS. TOKIHIRO: When we got the initial notice on the halt of —like, the federal funding —we were all, kind of, "Okay, what does this mean" because we do —our Office of Housing and Community Development, those positions are federally funded. So, right now, we're kind of in this "wait and see" approach —waiting to see what is —what the guidance is that comes out because with that first memo there was almost no guidance. So, we weren't sure how that was going to impact us. So, we're anticipating challenges as of right now. We don't have an immediate impact but we're all anxiously awaiting new news and anticipating or trying to anticipate where those areas are for us. So There are some there's just a fewI mean, I wouldn't say "a few" —but the amount of positions that we have that are completely federally funded is not that high. So, but definitely for our Office of Housing and Community Development, that would be a big area. MS. BOND: It seems to me that in a community like ours, diversity is one of the primary things we have, whether we like it or not. So MS. TOKIHIRO: Right. Yes, absolutely. MS. BOND: So it's that's part of what always makes me laugh when I see that. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. MS. BOND: Is that it's like —but, I mean, I've lived —my family has been here for eight generations and we, certainly, aren't the supremacist that — MS. TOKIHIRO: Right. MS. BOND: that the rest of them are. So, it's kind of an interesting thing here, where it's like if you want to go the way he wants to go, it's going to make things really interesting for just about everybody in the County. `Cause we are diverse. You —it —the whole State is diverse. MS. TOKIHIRO: And I feel very lucky that we are so diverse very lucky to live here and enjoy all of the different cultures. MS. BOND: Very true. Page 14 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: I have a question, Sommer. It may not be for the January divisional report but is there a move back in the County for those who work remotely from home to return to the office? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes. So, the Mayor's directive was for people to return to the office. So, there were telecommuting agreements in place. It was a program that we had developed after COVID. But from what I understand, those telecommuting agreements are not being renewed. So, once they expire, then people are to return to the office. CHR. CABANAS: So, can you give me an example, like, what some of the dates might be for these agreements? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, the agreements were done between —it was at the discretion of the department whether or not to offer telecommuting and to whom telecommuting was offered because it was based on operational needs. So, I couldn't tell you specifically what those dates are off the top of my head because those agreements were executed between the department head, and the employee, and then the Mayor. CHR. CABANAS: But they run, like, for several years? MS. TOKIHIRO: Oh, no. It was supposed to be a period of a year. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, I see. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. So, it was a period of a year and then could be renewed. So, even our Alternate Work Schedule Agreement —so we have an agreement with HGEA that would allow employees to work 4/10-hour days instead of a traditional 5-days per week, 8-hours per day schedule. So, that was a pilot program that actually expired November 30'h of 2024. And so, when the Mayor took office, we asked if he would like to continue to offer that as an opportunity because it was well -received, and so he agreed that he wanted that to continue. So, we're offering those agreements they are now a 2-year duration. So, it went from —I believe January 2025 and they'll expire December 31", 2026. And he wanted to put a timeframe on that just so we could continuously re-evaluate and make sure that that's working. But that's been something that a lot of employees have taken advantage of having that flexibility to have an additional day off during the week, whether for childcare or just to be able to get your errands done when all the other businesses are open, right. CHR. CABANAS: And, but those are for what —more professional type positions or Page 15 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. TOKIHIRO: So, HGEA would coverI mean, those professional level but also it could be clerical. But, again, it's based on the operational need of the department. So, if operationally the department is able to offer that and still keep offices open, 5-days a week, 8-hours a day through our normal business hours, then it's at their discretion which employees are able to participate. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, thank you. So, may I have a motion to approve the MAB Divisional Activity Report for January 2025? MS. BOND: So moved. MS. MATHEWS: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: February 2025; Current Vacancies In The County of Hawaii CHR. CABANAS: Next on the agenda is the MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report for February 2025, which we are still in the month of February. MS. TOKIHIRO: Wow, I feel like we finally caught up. CHR. CABANAS: Very interesting information being provided. So, thank you very much. MS. TOKIHIRO: You're welcome. So, for January, the other part, so —well, sorry, this is February. So, we did the grant training, "How to Search for Grants" —and then now it's —we're actually scheduling a training in March for how to —it's a "Grant Writing" course. So, that's exciting to continue on and provide those skills to departments to help them obtain more grants, hopefully. I was pleased that at the end of January, we closed January with only 50 continuous recruitments. And I that's still a lot of recruitments but we were making progress. So, that was definitely positive. Page 16 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 Sorry, Glynis, did you have the additional MS. BOND: This one? MS. TOKIHIRO: Okay, yeah. Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, yes. Yes, we have that. MS. BOND: Can you print it any smaller? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, I know. I should add a couple more columns, right, and then you wouldn't be able to see at all —sorry. SPEAKER: (Inaudible.) MS. TOKIHIRO: Okay, so there's been a lot of CHR. CABANAS: Oh, it's yours MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, I had mine. I have a lot of papers here. MS. BOND: It was in the green folder. CHR. CABANAS: I took it out —strange. I had it out, but then I have so many papers on my tabletop. I'm good. Okay. Thank you for providing this, Sommer. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, there's been a lot of information in the news about County of Hawaii vacancies. And so, I just wanted to, kind of, take this opportunity to provide some clarifications, I guess, because there's a lot of components to vacancies. So, what we did was compile the data over the last several years for comparison purposes (SEE ATT. A). And what you'll see is we've documented the number of vacant positions, the number of filled positions, and then I provided the total number of positions and then, the percentage that I documented is the vacancy percentage. So, in 2020, we had 463 vacancies, which was 16% of the total of all positions. As we move into 2021, it remained at 16%. And then, its increased 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 went from 18% up to current, which is 21 %. You can also see the new positions that have been allocated by fiscal year. So, new positions are created in our budget by County Council or mid -year through resolutions by County Council. But that's, basically, just approving the funding for a position. Page 17 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 The position still needs to be allocated by our Classification and Pay Division. And so, a position doesn't really exist until it's allocated. So, there could be fiscal years —we go back several fiscal years where there were positions that were approved in the budget that still have not yet been allocated. But this year, so far, year-to-date, we've allocated 57 new positions. In 2024, we allocated a total of 101; 2023, there were 66. So, you can see from the numbers that are the number of positions that the County has continues to grow. And so, vacancies have also continued to grow —although they did decrease between 2023 and 2024. And 2024, we had 620 vacant positions as of June 30''. That number is currently 684. The asterisks on below says that we're currently recruiting to fill 194 vacancies. So just because a vacancy exist in a department, doesn't mean the department is recruiting to fill for it — and that could be for a variety of reasons. Sometimes departments may be going through some kind of re-org. and they may elect not to fill positions until they complete that re -organization process; sometimes needs change and they decide that they're not going to fill a position —maybe they originally came to County Council and got approval for an Accountant. And then, by reassessing their operational need, they're like, "Hmm, we don't need that as an Account. We need it as something else" —so they may leave the position vacant to pursue whatever reallocation action. So, it's really at the departments discretion which positions they're going to fill and we're only recruiting for those positions that they come and tell us, "We're ready to fill this vacancy." So; out of all these positions —out of all the vacancies that we have, we're only actually attempting to fill about 200 of them. MS. BOND: So, is there any way to purge all of those ones that are no longerI don't know what the word is"wanted" necessarily? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, so MS. BOND: Yeah, all these inactive ones that are, really, are never going to be filled. That wayI mean, to —it would change —certainly change the numbers. MS. TOKIHIRO: It would. And so, part of —we have an HR Task Force. The Mayor has created a HR Task Force to look at HR issues —and that was part of the discussion at our last meeting was evaluating all the vacancies that we do have and reassessing, from an operational need perspective, are they all needed and what alternatives might be there. So, departments will need to be looking at that. MS. BOND: I have another question that's not on this direct topic —but OSHA, the person in charge is planning on —canning OSHA as a department altogether. Does that, that which to me, just seems (inaudible) whatever. Page 18 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 Would there be some kind of way to keep theI don't know — MS. TOKIHIRO: So, OSHA is the federal safety agency. But in the State, locally, we have HIOSH. So, I think even without OSHA there's —we still have HIOSH. And I believe HIOSH isas long as we maintain regulations set by OSHA, we can be even more strict with our regulations. And so, we are —so we are more closely aligned with HIOSH. MS. BOND: Thank you. MS. TOKIHIRO: You're welcome. CHR. CABANAS: You mentioned the HR Task Force, so who comprises the task force? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, the Mayor has requested representatives from our Planning Department; Environmental Management; Public Works; and then myself, and our Recruitment Manager Michelle Simmons; and our Classification and Pay Manager Jamielyn Martines; Stacie from Recruitment is also on the task force. And the task force also includesI apologize, I forgot to mention the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney —they have people on the task force as Well and the Mayor and the Managing Director. And so, it's really to get ideas —and also I like the discussion because we're able to provide some of these clarifications and help the Mayor and the Managing Director and even the other departments —although they're more familiar with dealing with us on a regular basis. And so, they understand some of these different ways to view this information, right —vacancies versus what we're recruiting for, different options that we may have in looking at minimum qualifications for positions, different ways to attract talent —but also are there ways that we need to look at our processes and see if there's things that could be done differently to expedite things, to make the process faster and less intimidating. We're also working with the Mayor's Office and his media people. We're going to be working on a video about our application, so that we can provide more insights and, hopefully, make that process more user-friendly for people. So, we're looking at creating a video that will be posted on the website that people can use as a guide, while completing the application. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Good that's all good things. I have another question but I forgot what it was. Do you have any other questions, Suzi or Gay? No? Okay. So, can I have a motion to accept and file the MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report for February 2025—and, actually, we touched upon the current vacancies in the County of Hawaii, unless you want to add anything? MS. TOKIHIRO: Oh, I'm sorry, didn't have anything else to add. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, because I think you explained with your sheet. Page 19 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, that was all I intended to cover. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. MS. MATHEWS: So moved. MS. BOND: I'll second. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: So, we're approving the —let me just go back a little bit. MS. BOND: February. CHR. CABANAS: We're approving the February 2025 Monthly Divisional Activity Report and current vacancies in the County of Hawaii —since she included that. Okay. MS. BOND: Right. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. MATHEWS: Is that actually an "approval" or an "acceptance to file?" CHR. CABANAS: "Acceptance to file." MS. MATHEWS: Okay that's what I moved. CHR. CABANAS: So, the motion is an acceptance and file for those two. MS. BOND: Okay. So CHR. CABANAS: She moved, second. MS. BOND: I seconded. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? MS. BOND: No. CHR. CABANAS: If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. Page 20 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Motion carried. MS. TOKIHIRO: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you, Sommer. So, is Ted here? MS. YAMADA: I'll check if he's outside. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Communications (Item 6) CHR. CABANAS: `Cause we don't have any "Communications." New Business (Item 7) CHR. CABANAS: There is no "New Business." Unfinished Business (Item 8) A) Communication No. 25-01, Received February 18, 2025, From Deputy Attorney General James E. Halvorson, Transmitting The "Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order," Concerning The Appeal Hearing Held On November 26, 2024, Regarding Communication No. 24-03, Received On May 1, 2024, From Appellant, Appealing The Following Actions By The County Of Hawai`i's Human Resources Department: Recruitment And Examination, And Classification Or Reclassification Of A Particular Position (Board Action Required: Approval Of The Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order) ) Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board Anticipates Convening One Or More Executive Meetings Regarding The Above Matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) And 92-5(a)(4), For The Purpose Of Evaluating An Officer Or Employee Of The County Of Hawaii, Where The Consideration Of Matters Affecting Privacy Will Be Involved And Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Of The Members Present Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting Page 21 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 B) Communication No. 25-02, Received February 18, 2025, From Deputy Attorney General James E. Halvorson, Transmitting The "Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order," Concerning The Appeal Hearings Held On January 16 And January 30, 2025, Regarding Communication No. 24-14, Received On September 12, 2024, From Appellant, Appealing The Following Action By The Fire Department: Recruitment And Examination (Board Action Required: Approval Of The Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order) Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board Anticipates Convening One Or More Executive Meetings Regarding The Above Matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) And 92-5(s)(4), For The Purpose Of Evaluating An Officer Or Employee Of The County Of Hawaii, Where The Consideration Of Matters Affecting Privacy Will Be Involved And Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Of The Members Present Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting CHR. CABANAS: And we are on Number 8, "Unfinished Business." So, let's take a pause to see if Mr. Hong is here at 9:53 a.m.—let's recess for a few minutes. RECESS: The Chair called for a recess at 9:53 a.m. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 10:33 a.m. in open session. A) Communication No. 25-01, Received February 18, 2025, From Deputy Attorney General James E. Halvorson, Transmitting The "Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order," Concerning The Appeal Hearing Held On November 26, 2024, Regarding Communication No. 24-03, Received On May 1, 2024, From Appellant, Appealing The Following Actions By The County Of Hawai`i's Human Resources Department: Recruitment And Examination, And Classification Or Reclassification Of A Particular Position (Board Action Required: Approval Of The Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order) ) Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board Anticipates Convening One Or More Executive Meetings Regarding The Above Matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) And 92-5(a)(4), For The Purpose Of Evaluating An Officer Or Employee Of The County Of Hawaii, Where The Consideration Of Matters Affecting Privacy Will Be Involved And Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Of The Members Present Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Everybody is back in the Hilo Council Chambers of the Hawaii County Building. So, I just want to say we're back from our recess waiting for our attorneys. And so, present are the three Board membersSuzi Bond, Vice -Chair. MS. BOND: Hello. Page 22 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: Gay Mathews —and I'm Gabriella Cabanas, Chair of the Merit Appeals Board. We have present in the gallery, Mr. Ted Hong, Esquire; our Fire Chief Kazuo Todd; Mr. Lyndon Turner from the Department of Public Works; Mr. Jonah Kaye from the Hawaii Fire Department; Mr. John Kaye; Mr. Justin Lee from the Office of the Corporation Counsel; Ms. Sherilyn Tavares from the Office of the Corporation Counsel; Ms. Sommer Tokihiro from well, the Director of the Department of Human Resources; and Mr. J Yoshimoto, our Assistant Corporation Counsel. We are in an open sessionoh, and our Secretary -Reporter —our wonderful, hard-working Secretary -Reporter, Glynis Yamada; and our Legal Counsel for the appeal hearings for Mr. Lyndon Turner and Mr. Jonah Kaye —Mr. Jim Halvorson, from the Office of the Attorney General in Oahu. So, welcome, everyone. (At this time, Mr. Lyndon P. K. Turner, Automotive Storekeeper (TA to Construction Equipment Repair Supervisor II), Public Works Department, and Mr. Ted H. S. Hong, Legal Counsel for Mr. Turner; and Mr. Justin C. Lee, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel, and Ms. Sommer J. Tokihiro, Director, Human Resources Department, came forward.) CHR. CABANAS: We are now on Number 8 of the agenda our "Unfinished Business." The first Communication number 25-01. Mr. Hong and Mr. Lee, we have received the Finding of Fact and the Conclusion of Law for the case concerning Mr. Lyndon Turner. The Board has received —it's actually a draft and we would like to go into executive session to discuss it. But before we do, I'd like to open it up to the County of Hawaii and to Mr. Hong, if you have any comments or concerns at this juncture because you have reviewed the Finding of Fact, and Conclusion of Law, correct? MR. HONG: That's correct. Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MR. LEE: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. So, I'll start with the County of Hawaii. Mr. Lee, would you like to say anything at this point? MR. LEE: Just that the County whether this was a draft or its final one —was going to object as to its sufficiency and rest on that objection. CHR. CABANAS: You weren't —I'm sorry, you weren't what? MR. LEE: We were going to object as to its sufficiency. CHR. CABANAS: To its sufficiency? MR. LEE: Yes. Page 23 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: You are objecting to his MR. LEE: To the sufficiency of the Findings. CHR. CABANAS: To the sufficiency of the Findings. Okay. And Mr. Hong? MR. HONG: Good morning, Madam Chair, and members of the Board. I wanted to apologize first for my tardiness and to Counsel, and certainly to my clients that I was late because we had an agency appeal before Judge Kubota that he did a very deep dive into the facts of the minutia and took a lot longer than I anticipated. So, I apologize for being late —and I appreciate the Board's patience and everyone's patience. I would note that with respect to my client's appeal, in terms of the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision —we have no objection to that, as proposed. However, in the Order we would suggest that the Board give a date certain with respect to my client's appointment into the position because it's still unclear, based on what my client told me this morning that he has that permanent position. So, we would suggest that the "dull axe" approach, which is putting it right there in the Order saying, "As of this date, he is appointed to that position." CHR. CABANAS: Can you explain further why does Mr. Turner feel that it is unclear? MR. HONG: It's not— CHR. CABANAS: Is something happening that we are unaware of? MR. HONG: His position or the appointment to that position has, actually, not been confirmed by the department. What they're doing is putting him in a temporary position and they keep telling him that, "Oh, yeah, we're going to take care of it." Well, actually, from my perspective, I thought the Board actually took care of it and decided that issue —and now we're being trying to find the best, most appropriate kind wordwe're, kind of, caught in a limbo with respect to the department about actually pulling the trigger and making the position permanent. CHR. CABANAS: I understand. And the reason why the Finding of Fact and Conclusion of Order is important is because it should be addressed there. And so, that's why the Board I'm speaking for the Board as the Chair the Board wants to go into executive session to include further language to the document. The situation is, it's they're waiting for this document in order to effectuate Mr. Turner, off of TA, and putting him back formally into the Construction Equipment Repair Supervisor II position. And so, that's why this is really important. We need to do this today. Page 24 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MR. HONG: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Lee, would you like to comment on anything further? MR. LEE: No. Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, I appreciate your patience, but we need to get this "accurate" is the word I want to use. MR. HONG: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Thank you. And we understand your being tied up in court. Those are matters that are beyond your control. So, thank you. B) Communication No. 25-02, Received February 18, 2025, From Deputy Attorney General James E. Halvorson, Transmitting The "Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order," Concerning The Appeal Hearings Held On January 16 And January 30, 2025, Regarding Communication No. 24-14, Received On September 12, 2024, From Appellant, Appealing The Following Action By The Fire Department: Recruitment And Examination (Board Action Required: Approval Of The Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order) Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board Anticipates Convening One Or More Executive Meetings Regarding The Above Matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) And 92-5(s)(4), For The Purpose Of Evaluating An Officer Or Employee Of The County Of Hawaii, Where The Consideration Of Matters Affecting Privacy Will Be Involved And Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Of The Members Present Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting CHR. CABANAS: There is another communication. The Board wants to entertain the two Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law in executive session. So, the second communication for which you are, Mr. Hong, the attorney for Mr. Jonah Kaye —is Communication Number 25-02. Again, the Fire Chief just entered into the Councilroom. And so, what the Board wants to do is take the Findings of Fact and Conclusion of Law concerning Mr. Turner's appeal and go into executive session. MR. HALVORSON: Wait. CHR. CABANAS: Yes? Page 25 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MR. HALVORSON: Mr. Kaye? CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Kaye —Jonah Kaye. MR. HALVORSON: Yeah, you said "Turner." CHR. CABANAS: Oh, I said "Turner?" Oh, I'm sorry. I need to get my little circuits in my mind —yeah —clear —get the wires straight. I'm sorry. Mr. Jonah Kaye —Mr. Jonah Kaye's appeal into executive session so we can work on the language of the Finding of Fact and Conclusion of Order. Before I do that, though, with the Board, do you have any comments to make, Ms. Tavares, and Mr. Hong? I'll start with Ms. Tavares first. Did you read the Finding of Fact? You did? MS. TAVARES: Yes CHR. CABANAS: And Conclusion of Law? MS. TAVARES: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TAVARES: And the County was going to make the same objection as to the sufficiency of it, but based on your explanation, we'll just wait until CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. TAVARES: you clarify it (inaudible). CHR. CABANAS: We do have concerns and we want to add more language to this document. Mr. Hong? MR. HONG: Thank you. Madam Chair, Members of the Board. Our concern, again, is something similar. My client has not been appointed to the position Water Safety Officer —and, apparently, he's also in limbo. And so, in any Order that the Board issues, we would respectfully ask that there be a date -certain with respect to his appointment. And the other thing that I would like included in the Order is a clear statement from the Board that there should be no retaliation against my client regarding filing his appeal because he's suffering that now and, in fact, my client informs me that the scoring sheet for the interviews is going aro being widely circulated. And my understanding is that's supposed to be confidential. But he's been tell —he's told me that his —some of the other individuals are walking around or circulating through electronic means, the scoring sheet and I don't know how that happens. Page 26 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 And so, again, I really do want a specific instruction or statement that the department cannot retaliate against my client based on his appeal. CHR. CABANAS: I acknowledge your concern, Mr. Hong and Mr. Kaye, the Fire Chief is here. You're correct, the scoring sheet is confidential and should not be circulated. It should be in the hands of the appropriate staff of the Hawaii Fire Department. Fire Chief, do you have any comment to make on that because that is quite a serious statement, actually. So, we have Mr. Kazuo Todd, our Fire Chief, here. (At this time, Mr. Kazuo S. K. L. Todd, Chief, Fire Department, came forward.) MR. TODD: Let's start with the scoring sheet CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. MR. TODD: Good morning. Fire Chief Todd, Hawaii Fire Department. I don't know anything about the scoring sheet. This is the first time I've heard of it. I would question —is it just the scores because that is a pretty, typical thing that guys start calling each other and then someone puts together a list. If it is the actual document for our scoring, I would like to get a copy of that and try to trace it down. We'd start an internal investigation to figure out how that got leaked, but I'm not aware of it until it was just mentioned now, so. CHR. CABANAS: Mm-hmm. Okay, thank you for that. MR. HONG: My client informs it's the scoring sheet. It's names and their scores, but my client's name is somehow redacted. CHR. CABANAS: It's a form with your name redacted? MR. KAYE: Yeah, my name isn't on it. There's only two names on it. I think it originated from the original grievance because the Grievants names are on it. CHR. CABANAS: And it shows the Grievants' names. MR. KAYE: Mm-hmm. CHR. CABANAS: And all the other names redacted, like blackened out? MR. KAYE: Or just not on there. It has Candidate 1, Candidate 2, Candidate 3. Page 27 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MR. TODD: So, that sounds like the sheet we submitted in the internal investigation that went to the Union and DHR. So, it probably didn't come from the Fire Department —and if that sheet is being circulated around, someone who is part of that proceedings got a copy. We can launch an internal investigation in the Fire Department, but my thinking might be that — is because the Union gave one of their members, who was part of that grievance, a copy of that document and then, then that started being sent around. We'll look into our own internal rules and see if we can curtail that. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. We appreciate that. MR. TODD: What was the second question? MR. HONG: We would still like the language regarding no retaliation by the department. CHR. CABANAS: No retaliation. You wanted the date of the WSO III appointment and you wanted a clear statement that there's no retaliation to Mr. Kaye based on this scoring sheet being circulated within the department. MR. HONG: Actually, the retaliation based on his appeal. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, based on his appeal. MR. HONG: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Based on his appeal —got it. Okay, thank you. Thank you for bringing that to the attention of the Fire Chief and he'll look into it. MR. TODD: Yeah. So, would it be possible to ask a question? CHR. CABANAS: Sure, go ahead. MR. TODD: So, I heard as of the last meeting that the intent of the Merit Appeals Board was maybe to overturn the decision from DHR and the Union to cancel our promotional process. Is that correct? CHR. CABANAS: The decision was for the Hawaii Fire Department to take the existing list and to apply the formula for the 5% relatively equal MR. TODD: Okay. CHR. CABANAS: And it's to be done by the Fire Department, not DHR. MR. TODD: So, is Page 28 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: And then, see if there's any change to the scoring, if there's any MR. TODD: I can tell you exactly what will happen. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MR. TODD: Jon —no? MS. TAVARES: I'm going CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Tavares. MS. TAVARES: I'm going to interject— CHR. CABANAS: Okay, go ahead. MS. TAVARES: because this is going beyond the scope of what we were here for CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TAVARES: —and (inaudible) the Fire Chief is now testifying. The Order has not been finalized CHR. CABANAS: Okay, that's fine. MS. TAVARES: —and issued and I don't want to have anything to CHR. CABANAS: Yeah, I understand. MS. TAVARES: to jumble up the (inaudible). CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. He was willing to explain but we will respect the legal advice. But, yes, the decision was to apply the 5% relatively equal formula and see if there's any change in the scoring. And if there's no change, then the Fire Department makes the selection. If there is a change, you can consult with the Director of Human Resources and take it from there. You would have to re-evaluate your process your scoring, if there is a change. So, the Director would have to discuss it with you and I'll leave it at that, because I don't want to get into scoring and all of that. But you apply the 5% relatively equal that should be in your department's Interview and Selection Procedures —and there is a specific formula —and so, then you apply that, and then you see if the four are still at the top or if there's anyone in the relatively equal range, and then you apply the seniority, and you take it from there. Okay. Is that clear it's not clear to you? I think that's something that the Director would help you with, Chief Todd. Page 29 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. TAVARES: I think, maybe that is where the clarification that I was going to be seeking but was going to wait until you were done with your executive session about the sufficiency of the Findings because it's not the DHR Director that applies the 5% CHR. CABANAS: No, it's not. MS. TAVARES: —it's the department. CHR. CABANAS: That's correct. MS. TAVARES: And so CHR. CABANAS: I noted that and we will correct it. MS. TAVARES: Okay. CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. TAVARES: So, he's the one who would essentially need to apply this 5%? CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. TAVARES: And as already has been stated on the record, it's going to change. So, the Board should consider that in finalizing its Order. CHR. CABANAS: Well, we don't have any involvement in what happens after applying the 5% relatively equal, because that's something that rest with the department head, which is the Fire Chief. And, Chief, if you have any questions, I'm sure the Director of Human Resources will be more than happy to help you. She'll guide you along, if there's any question. MR. TODD: I'm familiar with the process. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MR. TODD: I already ran the numbers CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Why don't you leave it at that. MR. HONG: One of my concerns is the definition of "relatively equal." Is that in the CBA or CHR. CABANAS: The "relatively equal" term yes, I think believe is in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The formula is based on procedures that were spelled out by Department of Human Resources. And so, Department of Human Resources should have the formula as well Page 30 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 as the Fire Department —every department in the County should have that. It's not something new. It's —we've been using it from the time I entered the County— 1981. It's not new. MR. HONG: Okay. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. MR. HONG: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TAVARES: And just for final clarification, the Board's intent is that after using the formula and applying the 5% relatively equal language, that the top four on the ranking, is those who are to be promoted? CHR. CABANAS: Yes. And if there are anyone within the relatively equal range, then the department should follow the CBA, Unit 15 contract for WSO's, and see if anyone within that range, apply the seniority —and see where they come in that range. MS. TAVARES: And after that application is done, the top four the Board is saying whomever is at the top 4, are to be promoted? CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. TAVARES: Regardless of, if Mr. Kaye is on that list or not? CHR. CABANAS: The chips fall where they fall. MS. TAVARES: Okay. MR. HONG: Well, I'm already getting an indication that the department's going to skew the scoring so, obviously, my client's not going to be one of the top four —and, if that's the case, then— CHR. CABANAS: Well, it's not skewing the score, Mr. Hong. It's apply the 5% seniority applying the 5% relatively equal. That is something that the County has always followed, we've trained the departments to follow —even when I was working in the County. It's that's not something they're not skewing it. They're following what existed. And that 5% relatively equal still existsright, Ms. Tavares? Ms.or you can ask your client, Ms. Tokihiro. MS. TAVARES: I don't— CHR. CABANAS: It's not 10% like the Union wants. Yeah. MS. TAVARES: I'm sorry, I didn't catch your last Page 31 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: It's not 10%—it's 5%. MS. TAVARES: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. MS. TAVARES: But whether that specific language is in the CBA relative to Water Safety Officers CHR. CABANAS: Not the 5%. The term "relatively equal" may appear in the contract. MS. TAVARES: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Yes. Mm-hmm. MS. TAVARES: The 5% language does not. CHR. CABANAS: Five percent —no. MS. TAVARES: Yeah, I just wanted CHR. CABANAS: Not in the contract —but in Department of Human Resources and the procedures on Interview and Selection Process. MR. HONG: So, my understanding is the Board's going to go into executive session then, hopefully, generate something a little bit more specific? CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MR. HONG: And that'll be subject to another hearing? CHR. CABANAS: Well, that's where we're at right now because the way the two —for your two clients —Mr. Turner and Mr. Kaye —we have to discuss it, but as the Chair and with my HR background that it's not sufficient. MS. TAVARES: We agree. CHR. CABANAS: And for Mr. Kaye's Finding of Fact and Conclusion of Law, it's not written correctly. It's not the responsibility of DHR to do —to apply the relatively equal —it's the responsibility of the Hawaii Fire Department to apply the relatively equal. MR. HONG: Well Page 32 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 CHR. CABANAS: Not only for this, but any other interview that they conduct following CBA's. MR. HONG: I certainly appreciate that. One of the points I did want to make is we weren't appealing on behalf of everybody else that would have been subject to those four positions. CHR. CABANAS: Correct. MR. HONG: We're only —we were only appealing Jonah's— CHR. CABANAS: Correct. MR. HONG: position. So, to the extent that the department now uses that formula to somehow exclude my client from the positionI mean, that's going to be problematic in terms of further litigation. But I'm just thinking—forecasting—so— CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, let's take one step at a time, Mr. Hong. MR. HONG: Right. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Because we really don't know the outcome until after the Hawaii Fire Department applies the relatively equal —okay. At this point, we don't know what the outcome is. MR. HONG: True. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MR. HONG: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: So, if youI know, this is such a long process and I know it's tiring to hear "be patient" but because we, the Board, wants it done correctly as it should be that's what the Fire Department should be doing —apply the relatively equal and see what the outcome is. Questions? Comments? MS. TAVARES: Not at this time. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, I'm going to read the executive session verbiage, for the record. And then, I'll entertain a motion for the Board to go into executive session. The Merit Appeals Board anticipates convening one or more executive meetings regarding the above matters, pursuant to HRS, sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2), and 92-5(a)(4), for the purpose of evaluating an officer or employee of the County of Hawaii, where the consideration of matters affecting privacy will be involved and consulting with the Board's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the Board's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities. A 2/3 vote Page 33 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 of the members present pursuant to HRS, section 92-4, is necessary to hold an executive meeting. Now, before I entertain a motion, parties —County and Mr. HongI'm not sure how long we will be in executive session. So, if you're willing to wait outside or if you want Glynis, our Secretary -Reporter, to call you when we're done, and then we can open up from executive session to open session. So, let —could you kindly let me know what your preference is? MS. TAVARES: Our preference —and I'm speaking for Mr. Lee as well —would be to be able to go back to our office and do some work. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Mr. Hong? MR. HONG: I think I've put in enough steps for me for the day, so I'm going to stay here. CHR. CABANAS: You're going to wait. Why, Ted, you need some exercise. All kidding aside, `cause this is a very serious matter. Thank you for your patience. And so, may I entertain a motion for the Board to go into executive session? MS. MATHEWS: So moved. MS. BOND: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. Thank you all for your patience. So, if we could clear the Hilo Council Chambers at 11 a.m. Thank you, everyone. RECESS: The Chair called for a recess at 11:00 a.m. Page 34 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 12:19 p.m. in open session. A) Communication No. 25-01, Received February 18, 2025, From Deputy Attorney General James E. Halvorson, Transmitting The "Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order," Concerning The Appeal Hearing Held On November 26, 2024, Regarding Communication No. 24-03, Received On May 1, 2024, From Appellant, Appealing The Following Actions By The County Of Hawai`i's Human Resources Department: Recruitment And Examination, And Classification Or Reclassification Of A Particular Position (Board Action Required: Approval Of The Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order) ) Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board Anticipates Convening One Or More Executive Meetings Regarding The Above Matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) And 92-5(a)(4), For The Purpose Of Evaluating An Officer Or Employee Of The County Of Hawaii, Where The Consideration Of Matters Affecting Privacy Will Be Involved And Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Of The Members Present Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting CHR. CABANAS: Thank you, everyone. We are back in open session. SPEAKER: Where are your clients? CHR. CABANAS: Do we have everyone here? MS. MATHEWS: Where are you clients? MR. HONG: Oh, I asked them to —since we're going to have to come back again CHR. CABANAS: Okay, they left. Okay. MR. HONG: (Inaudible.) CHR. CABANAS: Right, it's okay. Okay. MS. BOND: Inaudible —where are the boys? CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. Okay. So, it is now 12:19 and the Merit Appeals Board is back in open session. And just for the record, our three Board members are present —Ms. Suzi Bond, Vice -Chair; Ms. Gay Mathews; and Gabriella Cabanas, Chair. Our Secretary -Reporter, Glynis Yamada; our Assistant Corporation Counsel, J Yoshimoto; our Legal Counsel for the two appeals, Mr. Jim Halvorson, from the Office of the Attorney General. We have our County attorneys from the Office of the Corporation Counsel, Ms. Sherilyn Tavares and Mr. Justin Lee; and we have the Appellant's attorney, Mr. Ted Hong, Esquire. Page 35 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 Okay. So, at this point, I'd like to entertain a motion —and we'll take it separately —for the appeal on Mr. Lyndon Turner —and Mr. Lee is approaching the dais. Okay. So, we are now on the Findings of Fact and Conclusion of Law for Mr. Lyndon Turner. As discussed in our executive session, the Board has made revisions to this document —and it will be re -written by our Legal Counsel, Mr. Jim Halvorson. We have asked him for a revision by March 5 h, which is next week, so that we can agendize this for our next meeting on March 13''. And I hope that meets with your agendas, Mr. Lee and Mr. Hong —and we have taken your concern, Mr. Lee, about sufficiency and we've provided facts into the document —as well as your concerns, Mr. Hong. MR. LEE: I apologize, to the Chair, I have a hearing in Oahu for federal court on the 13'h CHR. CABANAS: Oh, okay. Can you have someone come in your place? MR. LEE: Before the MAB, I think that should be fine. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MR. LEE: Yeah, as long as I get the proposed Order by the 5 h, then I can kind of put my thoughts on it. CHR. CABANAS: You can yes. Okay, very good. Mr. Hong, is that okay with you? MR. HONG: Yes, thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, that would be 9:00, March 13''. And I really appreciate both of youI know this sounds like so much red tape going back and forth but Iwe all know that this is important and for the record —and to give clear direction to the Department of Public Works. MR. HONG: Absolutely. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, may I have a motion to accept the revisions to the Findings of Fact and Conclusion of Law, as discussed in our executive session? MS. MATHEWS: So moved. MS. BOND: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. Page 36 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. Thank you very much. B) Communication No. 25-02, Received February 18, 2025, From Deputy Attorney General James E. Halvorson, Transmitting The "Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order," Concerning The Appeal Hearings Held On January 16 And January 30, 2025, Regarding Communication No. 24-14, Received On September 12, 2024, From Appellant, Appealing The Following Action By The Fire Department: Recruitment And Examination (Board Action Required: Approval Of The Finding Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law; Decision And Order) Executive Session: The Merit Appeals Board Anticipates Convening One Or More Executive Meetings Regarding The Above Matters, Pursuant To HRS Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) And 92-5(s)(4), For The Purpose Of Evaluating An Officer Or Employee Of The County Of Hawaii, Where The Consideration Of Matters Affecting Privacy Will Be Involved And Consulting With The Board's Attorney On Questions And Issues Pertaining To The Board's Powers, Duties, Privileges, Immunities, And Liabilities. A 2/3 Vote Of The Members Present Pursuant To HRS Section 92-4 Is Necessary To Hold An Executive Meeting CHR. CABANAS: And the next one is the Findings of Fact and Conclusion of Order for Mr. Jonah Kaye. Again, same thing —we have revised and corrected the verbiage in the document that the Hawaii Fire Department will apply the relatively equal to the interview scores for the Construction Equipment Repairno, I'm sorry —for the Water too much going through my mind —for theoh, excuse me —for the WSO III recruitment and the interview scores therein. We have considered your concern, Ms. Tavares, on sufficiency and we have provided the facts to the document; and also for you, Mr. Hong, as well. MR. HONG: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: So, we —same deadline. Revisions by March 5 h to our Secretary -Reporter, and it will be agendized on our March 13'', 2025, meeting. You have a question, Ms. Tavares, you want me to repeat? MS. TAVARES: So, you are going to provide us the revisions that you folks are making today by March 5 h? CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. TAVARES: Okay. I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't me that needed to do CHR. CABANAS: No, it will come to Glynis Page 37 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. TAVARES: Okay. CHR. CABANAS: —and we will distribute to the two parties. MS. BOND: Before the 13''. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah, she will email you folks so you folks get to read it. Yeah. MS. TAVARES: Okay. Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah, you're welcome. And, again, thank you for being patient. It's been going back and forth but it's important that we all get it correct. So, may I entertain a motion to approve the revisions as we discussed in our executive session concerning the Findings of Fact and Conclusion of Law for Mr. Jonah Kaye. MS. MATHEWS: So moved. MS. BOND: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas —aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. Okay, so we will see all of you on March 13''. MR. HONG: Very good. Thank you CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. MR. HONG: —for your patience. MS. TAVARES: Thank you. Page 38 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 Announcements (Item 9) CHR. CABANAS: We are still on our agenda. I believe it's "Announcements." Any announcements? Schedule Next Meeting Date (Item 10) The Merit Appeals Board Will Convene Its Next Meeting On Thursday, March 13, 2025, At 9:00 A.M., At The Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, Hilo, HI 96720 CHR. CABANAS: If not, the next Merit Appeals Board meeting will convene on Thursday, March 13, 2025, at 9 a.m. at the Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building, at 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, in Hilo, Hawaii. Mr. Halvorson —Jim, will you be able to attend this meeting? MR. HALVORSON: Yes, I should be available. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, great. And then, we'll wait for your documents to be emailed to Glynis by March 5 h. MR. HALVORSON: Yes, I will make every effort to get that done. CHR. CABANAS: Do you need the transcript from Glynis? MR. HALVORSON: That would be helpful, but I think I took decent notes. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MR HALVORSON: And, if not, like I say —it's half -written already, so I should be okay. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, very good. Thank you, Jim. Have a good week and take care. MR. HALVORSON: Okay, thank you you, too. CHR CABANAS: Okay. Adiournment (Item 11) CHR. CABANAS: So, may I have a motion to adjourn today's meeting? MS. BOND: So moved. Page 39 Merit Appeals Board February 25, 2025 MS. MATHEWS: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Any discussion? We'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Bond. MS. BOND: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas—aye. Three ayes. Motion carried. Meeting is adjourned at 12:28 p.m. Thank you, everyone. 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