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Merit Appeals Board May 23, 2025 <br />And we would also note that the director's decision, in this case, while the Board did find against <br />it —there was no finding that it was frivolous or, basically, out of pocket. So, we would submit <br />that —we would ask the Board to deny the motion. Thank you. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Thank you, Mr. Lee. You have your light on, Mr. Hong, do you want to add <br />on? <br />MR. HONG: Very briefly a rebuttal, please? <br />CHR. CABANAS: Go ahead. <br />MR. HONG: Thank you. So, the rebuttal isagain, the American Rule doesn't apply because <br />when —even when you look at the citation provided by Mr. Lee of the Kamaka Case regarding <br />the Hawaii State Supreme Court, their court rules, their —also statutes there's also case <br />precedent —prior decisions by the Hawaii State Supreme Court or other courts of appeal that <br />would apply. <br />That would apply, again, to litigation, where we're across the street, at the Third Circuit Court or <br />the Courts. But this is not a court, this is not necessarily litigation. This is an appeal of the <br />decision with respect to the Civil Service Director or the department in this case. <br />So, again, it's not the American Rule. And even in the case where Mr. Turner lost and the <br />County asked for fees and costs, we would be litigating that —why the County wouldn't be <br />entitled to it and we're not asking that it's a blank check or you sign a blank check. We're <br />asking you to take a look at our fees and costs and award what you think is appropriate and fair <br />out of that. <br />So, for those reasons, in terms of fundamental fairness, it just doesn't fit in terms of the context <br />of these types of appeals. And the context, to me, is more similar to grievances and arbitrations <br />in the collective bargaining context. And for those reasons, we would ask the Board to grant our <br />motion. Thank you. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Okay, thank you, Mr. Hong. I'm going to allow Mr. Lee to rebut, if he wants <br />to, or you want to add anything else, Mr. Lee? <br />MR. LEE: No, we'll submit on our arguments. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Lee. Okay, Mr. Hong, thank you. <br />Page 16 <br />