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Merit Appeals Board <br />May 23, 2025 <br />CHR. CABANAS: Niel? <br />MR. THOMAS: Up to you. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Do you feel comfortable asking a question to the attorneys? <br />MR. THOMAS: That's fine, yes. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Okay, I will allow it to the attorneys. So, Mr. yeah, which one do you <br />on —for Mr. Kaye? <br />MR. THOMAS: I could go either way, whoever chooses to answer, I suppose. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Well, I can call Mr. Lee and Ms. Tavares up. <br />MR. THOMAS: That's probably the way to do it. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. And let's keep it separate. So, Mr. Kaye is already present, so ask <br />Mr. Kaye first —ask Mr. Hong regarding Mr. Kaye. <br />MR. THOMAS: So, Mr. Kaye, as to the American Rule and its applicability to a proceeding, <br />such as this, an administrative agency proceeding —are there clear precedents both within <br />Hawaii and in other States for the American Rule to be applied, one way or the other? <br />CHR. CABANAS: Who are you asking that to, Mr. Thomas? <br />MR. THOMAS: Oh, I was asking Counsel for Mr. Hong. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Okay, you're asking it to Mr. Hong? <br />MR. THOMAS: To Mr. Hong, yes. <br />CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Okay, proceed, Mr. Hong. <br />MR. HONG: In the context of these proceedings —no. There is no precedent regarding that. <br />There is no case law. There is no statute. There is no rule. <br />MR. THOMAS: So, we're making —we're being asked to make a precedent here that hasn't <br />been seen before but you believe it's within our right to do that, I take it? <br />MR. HONG: It is within your right. What you're being asked to do is to incorporate an entire <br />body of law that applies to cases filed in court —whether it's this court —the Third Circuit Court <br />or the United States Federal Judiciary system. <br />Page 20 <br />