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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-09-16 GMAC Minutes Final Draft Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawai'i Minutes Meeting Date: September 16, 2025 Time: 9:00 am - 11:00 am Place: Zoom and In-Person - 25 Aupuni Ctr., Ste. 1501, Hilo HI 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 9:05 am District 1— Robert Duerr, Present, in person District 2 -Taysen Wong-Chong Present, in person District 3— Rhon Leomana Turalde, Present in person District 4— Brian Ley— Present, in person District 5—Vacant District 6—Vacant District 7—Abel Aquino, Present via Zoom District 8—Cortney Okumura — Excused District 9—Justin Ackerman, Present via Zoom Quorum Established with 6 attending and 1 excused. STAFF: Sinclair Salas-Ferguson, Deputy Attorney, Corp Counsel Cody Frenz, Deputy Attorney, Corp Counsel Micah Alameda, Executive Assistant to Mayor Alameda Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist Mayor's Kona Office Jeff Kahakua, ITTech, Kona LT: Housekeep Rules: Please make sure your cell phone is turned off or in silent mode for all of us attending in person. Please remember to speak into the microphone when you speak so that your statements can be recorded and transcribed. Under HRS 92-3 the Sunshine Law, GMAC can remove any person who willfully disrupts the meeting or prevents and compromises the conduct of the meeting. All people appearing before GMAC are reminded to conduct themselves in a courteous manner. For testimony those in person for those who would like to testify please fill out the public registration form right here. For those on Zoom, please put it on the Chat, let us know your name and the agenda item you would like to testify on, and we can allot you that time. Just a reminder, anyone who willfully disrupts our meeting may be kicked out of the meeting. Question from the public, for those on zoom, if you have a question put in the Chat. 1 Just going back to Question, it's something that we are mandatory to answer, if we have extra time, per the Chair and Vice-Chair of the commission we answer questions if we can, that's not something that we normally do. LT: Protocol. Just a reminder if you are a commissioner and you are speaking you have to have your camera's on and if you are a commissioner you have to let us know who else is in the room with you. And if you are by yourself or not? Commissioner Aquino we wanted to know if you're by yourself or not in your office? AA: I am outside my home completely alone. LT: Right on...thank you very much for checking in. And last District 9- Justin Akerman? JA: Yep, unmuted now, I'm home alone and I can hear you. LT: Thank you. PAUSE - MEETING BEING HACKED - IT Tech JEFF KAHAKUA IS TAKING CARE OF IT JK: All right I think I got them....I'll go ahead and unmute everybody... BK: It's not going to happen again? JK: Hilo side go ahead and unmute... RD: The one person who we didn't know is this Jacob character... JK: I got ummm...no worries...inaudible LT: Mahalo for that...sorry for the hacking again. This is what goes on with the digital world. We'll talk about this later. Jumping back to the agenda item #2. 2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: Chair Turalde welcomes anyone that may want to say something regarding an agenda item may do so anytime throughout the meeting. LT: Do we have any interested members from the public that would like to testify on any of our agenda items, we can talk about right now upfront or else before each agenda item comes up you can remind me. JK: I'm sorry Hilo, could you go ahead and re-enable your video please? 2 LT: And if you are in zoom, please raise your hand if you would like to speak and also put your name and agenda item in the comment section. Thank you very much. For all of us in person. No, maika'i. Moving on to agenda #3 3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: • June 17, 2025, Regular Session • July 1, 2025, Special Meeting regarding the General Plan • July 15, 2025, Regular Session Action: A motion was made by B. Ley to accept July 17,July 1, and July 151", 2025, minutes as circulated. Second by R. Duerr. Motion carried unanimously. LT: Thank you very much, discussion about the minutes. Right now, we have three (3) packets in front of us, one from the regular session then we have one from the special meeting regarding the General Plan and then we have our July 15th meeting. Did everybody have a chance to look over that? I think my own opinion about the minutes is maybe, I don't know if aunty has to type it all out or we recorded and we get the captions on it, but reading the minutes, it was kind of...what is it called? It was...not everything that was said is in our minutes. I cannot bring up all of the words, it seems like a summary, and I want to ask you guys if we wanted a little more detailed word for word or is this summary style... BK: Aloha Chair this is Barbara, the only one was the special meeting, everything else was verbatim, so on the special meeting on July 1st, all of you requested verbatim, so I have the rough draft done and I'm clearing that up and I have a senior volunteer because Megan retired, who did the transcribing. You'll get a transcription verbatim for the July 1st special meeting. The June 17t" and July 15t" meeting were from the recording as long as it's recorded it was all typed out; we took out some of the words (cleaned up) that shouldn't be in there. LT: Yea h...Thank you very much. BK: and we cleaned it out and it's verbatim pretty much, okay? LT: Yes, ma'am Thank you very much for clearing that up with me. I was reading the minutes for the special meeting and looking at the other ones And I was kind of... Oh the outline was different but thank you for that clear up. All right, any other discussion. All in favor of all the minutes passing say Aye. The Aye's has it. None opposes, motion carries. It passes. Thank you, guys. Moving on to the next agenda item. 3 4. COMMISSIONERS DISTRICT REPORT: a. Each Commissioner will provide updates and share concerns about their respective districts; Commissioners to decide on whether to add those topics at the next meeting and to invite the public to provide testimonies and presentations at their meeting. Permitted Interaction Groups may be created at this time. There will otherwise be no discussion or voting, which will be reserved for when it is itemized on a future agenda. RD: District 1- 1 don't have much, talking about Wailoa ramp, it's not my district, but I use it a lot. Essentially some items needed to be addressed, most importantly the bathrooms. Seems to be an ongoing push constantly what's happening next, when do we get the inaudible...That's all I have. LT: Thank you very much District 1. Moving on District 2... TC: Taysen Wong Chong, District 2 1 don't have much but, Liliokulani is having a lot of clean up, bridges are back open, I'm pretty sure they will let us know...KC he was the that snipped that ribbon...still hearing reports, I got some pictures back, I know it's out of my area, but Mana road a ram was shot on the side of the road, kinda sad...but ummm..that's about it for me...Nothing really change... LT: Okay, thank you very much District 2. District 3- Leomana Turalde. Just for District 3 couple of the updates...Was bill 51 was about to pass, I dunno on what day it was. Just an easy count this past weekend...I counted about ten (10) pigs at the dump that was being fed, right by the old recycle spot, at the top of Ponohawai, I saw aunty hand feeding the pigs again...That is always a constant thing. I see more pigs and fowl popping up around in District 3, all the way from Keaau in the middle of the town of Keaau all the way to Keaukaha. It's not the egg birds, it's more of the fighting chickens getting loose, so it's not the egg layers. It was a year ago in Keaukaha that the Rhode Island red being released everywhere. I still see public feeding of animals on top of our government properties. That is one thing I've seen this past weekend. Another one was the waste station over by the airport, I drove in the back, and it seems like they have construction fully renovating the wastewater treatment facility in the back of our airport. Something that is still on my mind is the pollution. Maybe you know about this the pollution from our exhaust pipes that go right out in front of Onekahakaha. Something I wanted to do was to talk to our Mayor and County Council and see how we can get that exhaust pipe moved to the back in Puna behind Mauna Loa Mac Nut, where the drop off is closer to shore verses in the middle of the bay of Keaukaha. And that's the update for District 3...thank you very much. Moving on to District 4 BL: Brian Ley District 4— First I want to apologize to the IT guy, if he took it personally, that I was upset with the derogatory hacking once again at our meeting and everything else.... 4 BK: Excuse me Chair, we lost Abel, so I'm going to call him... LT: Okay thank you... BL: All right for District 4 [inaudible] Pohohiki, we're on a roll we were too far ahead, now there are delays on equipment that they had scheduled wasn't available sooner and last time I was over there, they were putting the crane together and they look like they were moving forward...so the. It's going, it's just slow now, we were on a good roll. The inaudible...pigs are doing wonderful well, and as far as the broken water for the goats up in the hunting area mile marker 18, is still broken after a year. Corporate Counsel can I ask you a question? Is there any possible way the county can file suit against the DLNR for not following the law we have passed. They were to provide adequate management for our game animals. Broken water is a bare minimal, and we even can't get that, and we got people complaining about the animals being on the road looking for water and food and the State can't even keep the waters functioning after a year and I would be interested if the County would step in and say this is a State Law you guys need to do your job. As far as that, public access seems to be a big thing, back to that Cell Tower for the Goat turning area has been closed, I think for the whole season which was one of the prime areas lock and loading hunting. I know that the Golf course has been complaining about the goats and everything, I don't know why that has been closed hunting muzzle loading for the goats, when goats seems [inaudible] and we're not having access areas where we can effectively hunt, especially for the handicap...it's easy access, nice terrain...for the handicap hunter...prime location, and the county Kimball your lady talking about [inaudible] to go to Waipio valley, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, for locals and everybody else. It was brought up in a meeting and what she would like to implement. And I know we have had problems with access in the Ka'u area and everything else and we've had meetings every week and I know we need to do something, and if we could do something about public access to hunting areas and everything, with the County and State, because I know the County isn't enforcing these land owners, when they sell the property it isn't being recorded an easement, that they are supposed to supply an easement for the public, either for the shores, or public hunting areas, and everything else like that. You know, access...for everybody on the island is being severely, we need to look into that. And I have three (3) months of notes from these meetings...And we have fire seasons, we were having multiple fires, I reached back out to our lady Jill, talked to our environmental guy and he just blew me off...and I've just come to the conclusion that the County, State, the Federal do nothing for fire management. We do nothing as far as what standard practice as far as the rest of the nation, don't control fires, don't keep fire loads down, we don't do anything... so all the government are hand in hand with all the fires we were having...and when we get another disaster fire like Mauna kea, Waikoloa, and everything else, everyone throws up their hands, and say, "how did this happen?", it's because nobody has done anything for the past ten (10) years that we've been screaming about, we need to do something 5 about fire management. Like I said in the Goat area, it's just so dry, it just ridicules the fountain grass crackling. It's a spark in a good wind and that whole area would be engulfed. We're sitting on a time bomb. And that's enough joy and happiness for me today so thank you all very much. NOTE:In Hawaii, if a property sells with an unrecorded easement, it can be challenging but not impossible to discover the history.An unrecorded easement does not provide public notice, so a new owner may not be legally bound by it unless they had "actual or constructive notice".A comprehensive search will likely require looking beyond the official record and investigating other historical information ?: Kimball...inaudible LT: Okay thank you very much...that was District number 4, moving on to District 7 Mr. Abel Aquino, he's back on here... AA: I am here, I'm disabled by Host LT: Yes sir, I got you AA: Awesome, I just wanted to revisit the July 15t" issues for the Manta permit being uncapped, the cruise ship waste dumping too close to shore and graffiti on the lava rocks. Mostly north of Keahole Airport. If we could put these issues on the next agenda. LT: Just noted that down, is that it? AA: Yes, Possible solution for fire hazards are bucket lines of drones actually, they're getting cheaper to operate, and could be deploy pretty easily, where instead of a single helicopter dumping one bucket at a time, you could have about 5 drones just none stop cycle from the ocean, that's a possibility we could discuss later. LT: Thank you very much. I just want to comment about the graffiti on the lava rocks. I know Ironman is coming up and I was thinking of taking a trip up there during the Ironman to do a little investigation if I can find people doing graffiti or try to find out what the inspiration for people doing that is. AA: I think that's a lot of it, you're right...even some signs would help, you know it might even be like a temporary chalk that actually leaving permanent scars on the pahoehoe. Not so much the a'a, but the pahoehoe. Was really cool back in the days, when everybody would arrange the white coral rocks and do that, but this new school, by using chalk or paint or whatever it is leaving permanent damage. LT: Let's go check that. Thank you very much AA: Thank you 6 LT: Moving on to District 9 Mr. Justin Akerman, is he in here? JA: Yeah, all right, I'm alive...Just had to get unmuted. Nothing much to report. Everything is quiet up here in District 9,just my normal mantra about the range is in pretty good shape. I know it's not my District, but I'm there every week or two. It's in pretty good shape...Just remember propane bottles are not targets, it's my, that's my public service announcement. If you're going to shoot a propane bottle, take it home! LT: Thank you very much... JA: Don't make me do it...and I agree with Abel...Stop painting the rocks, I drive that road, I drive Queen K all the time, living up here, it's disgusting to see lava disgraced like that. NOTE: Graffiti on Hawaii's lava rocks is widely considered disgraceful because it is illegal, culturally disrespectful, and a form of vandalism against a sacred and historic landscape. While some might mistake it for a form of local expression, this practice harms the natural environment and defaces culturally significant sites. Graffiti on Hawaii Island lava rocks take several forms: • Coral graffiti:For many years, people would use white pieces of coral to spell out words or create designs on the black lava fields, particularly along the highway in Waikoloa. Years of community effort and cleanups have reduced this practice. • Painted graffiti:More blatant vandalism with spray paint has been found on rocks in protected areas, including the Mauna Kea Ice Age Natural Area Reserve. • Rock structures and cairns: The building of rock cairns(piles)and other structures from coral and archaeological stone is considered disrespectful and prohibited in national parks LT: Okay Thank you very much...that ends our District updates...Moving on to Agenda 5 Presentations Agenda 5 A Our first presentation is by Bret Nainoa Mossman, DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife (DOFA) Natural Area Reserve System, Hawaii Island Avian Biologist to speak on the "Palila and its Endangered Species Recovery Status and Analysis including analysis of the "Technical Report HCSU-115 2022-2024 Status and Trends of the Palia (Loxioides Bailleui)." Aloha sir, you got the con... 5. PRESENTATION: a. Bret Nainoa Mossman, DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife (DOFAW) Natural Area Reserve System, Hawai'i Island Avian Biologist to speak on the "Palila and its Endangered Species Recovery Status and Analysis including analysis of the "Technical Report HCSU-115 2022—2024 Status and Trends of the Palila (Loxioides Bailleui)." BM: Yep, Aloha everyone, thank you. I'll just go ahead and share my screen, let me know if there's any issues coming through. Let's see, gotta get approval real fast. Here we go, can you folks see my screen, okay? 7 LT: Now we can... BM: Perfect...and is it showing you the presentation and not the notes? LT: Okay, yep, we got it. BM: Okay, perfect...thank you for that introduction Leomana. My name is Brett Nainoa Mossman, and I just moved from the Natural Area Reserve system to the Statewide Forestry Recovery coordinator, but I'm still with the department of forestry and wildlife and I'm coming to you guys from Oahu today, but I'm still based primarily on Hawaii Island. Just a little background about myself, so I was born in Utah, and I grew up hunting and fishing, my family is from couple different islands, but Maui, Oahu and Kauai, are the three (3) where I have ancestry. I moved to Hilo, Panaewa in 2017 for grad school and I currently live in Waimea with my uncle Mike and aunty Bina, and the first native bird I worked on worked on was Palila in 2016. Just a couple of pictures of me as a little kid with some He'e and the first deer that I shot was in High School, here's me more recently I'iwi matching my shirt. So just a little bit of background on the Palila, the Palila is a large Hawaiian honey creeper, their one of largest honey creeper 30 to 40 grams in the wild. They are endemic to the Hawaiian Island. And as you know they have a bright yellow head, and breasts with a gray back, wings, and sides, and they have a black bill and black legs, or black grayish bill and legs. The last finch bill species in the main Hawaiian Islands. We used to have a wide diversity of species of finches here, up to 55 species, and Palila is the last one that has this finch-like bill for eating seeds and fruits. And they feed almost exclusively on Mamane. Over ninety (90%) percent of their diet comes from Mamane, mostly it's the green pod and they also feed on leaf, tips, flowers and all different parts of the plant. They also feed on things like na'e na'e and na'io, but by enlarging mostly on Mamane, which is the most important plant for their diet. The habitat for Palila is mostly found, historically mostly found in three (3) areas, one is called the dry mixed Mamane naia woodland, that's the dominate habitat on Mauna Kea. They are also found in arid Sub-Alpine Mamane Forest and mix mesic dry forest. NOTE:A mesic dry forest describes an ecological community with moderate moisture(mesic)and a significant drought component, often found in tropical and subtropical regions, where trees are adapted to shed leaves to conserve water during dry periods.Another interpretation could be a "dry-mesic"forest, which refers to a forest type that thrives on drier-than-average sites with moderate soil moisture, not fully dry or fully wet As you look at this map, it's basically all the orange area is potential Palila habitat, like the same rainfall pattern that they're typically found. And pretty much they are found around Mauna Kea, and in this orange area and some of the brown area, and some of the light green area, on the leeward side of the Island historically. And here is a betterview of that 8 range map. So here on the left you can see the historical range of Mamane on Hawaii island, and then this is the historic range of Palila, sorry it's a little covered up by the text, but for the most part they are found around Mauna Kea down through the saddle region between Mauna Kea and Hualalai around Hualalai and down the leeward side of Mauna Loa. Pre-historically though however, they were found on Kauai and Oahu, and it's the same species we have today. There was a second species, Palila, that went extinct and that were only found on Kauai. Historically Palila have been only known since western contact, but there is a story Palila recorded in Fornander that talks about the Palila the warrior, it's kind of a mythological story, it goes through the life and history of this warrior his path through the Islands correspond almost exactly to the historical range...to the known fossil range of the Palila. So, we've known about range of these birds for quite some time, even in pre-historic contacts through oral traditions. And so just to give a little more background to,the historic populations transfer Palila has been,were stable up until the early 2000, so from about 1980 all the way to the early 2000, the Palila fluctuated between 3 to 6000 individuals, and this pattern of fluctuation tracked almost perfectly to drought conditions throughout that time period. But then you can see in the early 2000, they kind of take a steep dive down, and that's when we started this period of unprecedent dryness that got most of the year 2007 to 2014 and here you can see the direct impact of that drying. So, from early 2000, when you saw that stable population, by 2005 you have this huge drop in Palila population, and they've been slowly trending down since, where most of the years were around 2005 and 2009, as key points of inflection for the Palila population. NOTE:An inflection point is a point on a curve where its curvature changes,for example,from bending upwards(concave up) to bending downwards(concave down), or vice versa. Since then, they have continued to decline, and this is highlighting that most recent paper that was published. So, in 2022 we had our lowest count of Palila ever recorded, and that was an estimated 545 individuals. In 2003 we had a slight up-tick, with a population of 596, and similarly in 2004, and basically in 2004 numbers we know 1.5 birds per acre within the Palila core habitat. Also, exciting or hopefully looking a little bit better since 2022 we had a very slight increase in the number of detections and in the estimated population. Hopefully the expanded management efforts that have been implemented which we will get to later in this presentation, had hopefully started to turn this around. Oh, yeah, but that's kind of jest of it. If we need to later, we can get into more of the details of this paper, but this is the same methodology that's been used since the 80's to estimate abundance for these species as well as for other species across Hawaii. So, another one that we kind a took a looked at that data, the same data that we collected, over that time period, was published more recently, and this one is using a new methodology that we've been doing. So, all that data from 1980, clear 9 through to 2022 was based on annual, oh sorry...from 1980 all the way to 2024 was based only on the annual surveys that are done typically in January and February. But since 2022, we have started to do quarterly surveys to get a better idea as of where the birds are throughout the year. This paper is looking at the quarterly surveys that are done every January and February and I believe May, August and November, are the four-time period that we do our quarterly survey. So, this paper took that data up and basically try to identify where a Palila hot spot is, so this is kind of the most important...and then, one other thing I will also add is the quarterly data also supported the annual population data and all the numbers were pretty much identical to what they found from the annual survey data. So, this was kind of another way to estimate the population with a smaller sample size. So, according to the quarterly data, what this can show us is where the Palila hotspots are and how they've changed overtime. So, in 2020 you can see, I apologize this is kind of small, they have put a lot of images on one thing, but, basically in 2020 there were two (2) hot spots. One up kind of to the Northeast of Pu'u Mana'o and one (1) down right near the Palila discovery trail, right at kind of by Pu'u La'au. So, since 2020 that hotspot has decreased in size and really concentrated in the Northeast section by Pu'u Mana'o. And...but,just a note to that hotspot didn't change over the last five (5) years, it's pretty much has been that area, since that analysis was looked at. This paper was really good to highlight where the Palila are, possibly important areas on the mountain are for them. This is just to show a little bit more detail into the survey effort that went into estimating these Palila populations for both of these papers, so, from 2022 to 2025, we've surveyed a total of 19 transects and in that time, we've done over 3,000 surveys stations. So that means we've had a biologist at a station surveying these stations for at least six(6) minutes NOTE: Palila (Loxioides bailleui) are critically endangered, finch-billed Hawaiian honeycreepers (family Fringillidae), and the last of the seed specialists in this adaptive radiation remaining within the main Hawaiian Islands. Approximately 2.84 million years ago, palila diverged from the ancestors of the Laysan finch (Telespiza cantans) and Nihoa finch (Telespiza ultima; Lerner et al. 2011), and colonized the dry forests of at least Kauai, Oahu, and the Island of Hawaii (Olson and James 1982, Burney et al. 2001, Banko et al. 2020), based on subfossil and historical evidence.They evolved to feed almost exclusively upon the seed pods of endemic mamane (Sophora chrysophylla;family Fabaceae), which contain compounds toxic to most other species (Banko et al. 2002a). Their dependence on mamane seeds has increased markedly compared to their reconstructed diet showing greater exploitation of caterpillars more than a century ago (Van Houtan et al. 2024). Today, they are found only in subalpine dry forest on the Southwest slope of Mauna Kea, and in that whole time, we detected 663 Palila. And so here is just a little bit more of a breakdown, so in 2022 is when we first started to do the Quarterly survey, so that year we did just 386 stations, which is typical for the annual survey. In 2023 we started doing more of the quarterly survey, we didn't have quite enough biologists to do as many as we would like, so we ended up doing about 880 stations, and in 2024 we were kind of...we 10 were able to finally hit the goal...the number of stations we were hoping to, as we got up to 1,000 stations...a little over 1,000 stations. And in 2025 so far, we surveyed 788 stations. And our next survey is coming up in November. And just too kind to highlight what our thoughts are to be the causes of this Palila decline we've seen over the years, the number one (1) cause seems to be drought. So, they seem to be really tied to the drought index and vegetation index we've been looking at, and one that has been more of a problem historically, is habitat loss. So, a lot of their previous habitat has burned or browsed or converted via ranching and then the other major issues that they are experiencing are predation by nonnative predators, most impactful are feral cats, rats and barn owls maybe playing some effect. One other possible place where they are struggling via competition and this actually primarily with things like introduced yellow jackets ( Vespula pensylvanica), ants and other insect pests that are eating their moth prey, which is really important for them during the breeding season, because they are trying to feed the young Palila a lot of protein. So, this paper was really super helpful as well, this came out, also this year, and this one is looking at across the board, what are the things that seem to be really tying into the Palila population and abundance. This one we're really interested in looking at how drought impacts vegetation health and how that correlated to the Palila population. And so, basically, they did a couple of different things. They looked at the change of the Palila distribution, and they were looking for key population break points. And I kind of mentioned that earlier, but basically what they've seen is Palila have really shifted from this Northern...the Northwestern part of the range into this Northeastern part of the range over the last several years. This particularly occurred between 2005 to 2009 when we had these key inflection points in the Palila populations. And 2005 is really key because it is when we had the steepest rate of Palila decline, so for that year the slope was about 2.25 and so we saw this really hard, hard decline in the Palila numbers starting that year. So, what is this Normalize Difference Vegetation Index (NDVI)? NOTE: A vegetation index (VI) is a numerical value derived from satellite or aerial imagery that quantifies the density, health, and vigor of vegetation by analyzing the light reflected and absorbed by plants. By comparing light reflectance in different spectral bands, especially the red and near-infrared (NIR) regions, Ws help monitor vegetation cover, assess agricultural conditions, and understand ecological dynamics. This is an interesting one, where you can actually use remote imaging, use satellite imaging to basically assess the health of the plants in a given area. So, basically you look at the percentage of NIR and the percentage of Red coloration that is reflected off of plants. NOTE: The "percentage of the NIR formula" refers to the Natural Increase Rate (NIR) formula, which is calculated as the crude birth rate (CBR) minus the crude death rate (CDR), then divided by 10 to express the result as a percentage of the population. 11 NOTE: "Percentage of red coloration" refers to the amount of red in a specific color, typically expressed as a percentage within a color model like IIG.D.(Red Green Blue) or ,IMYM1.G,(Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black) So, basically, as a plant is healthier it has a higher NIR and if a plant is less healthy it would have a lower NIR and it would look redder, that kind of brown affect that you see. And so, basically as you see, when you have a drought, plants are going to browner, and you're not going to have as much vegetation. When you have good water year plants are going to be greener, and that is going to be really strong correlate to the Mamane pod availability and thus the Palila breeding success and population. So, over the last several I guess 2 decades now, in this paper they looked at the NDVI* or that vegetation index...and so,you look at the monthly vegetation health index over the last several years, you can see in the early 2000, there was some fluctuation, but it was overall, there was a little bit of a drought in the early 2000 after the 90's, after the late 1990's and it kind of part...and you got a little bit more water, coming in at the end of 2004 and from 2004 to 2014 it was a continuous decline in plant health. Then in 2014 we got more precipitation up there, and since then it's remained pretty stable. And what seems to be one of the key numbers are, oh yeah sorry, I'm getting a little ahead of myself...so we've had pretty good conditions on the mountain for the last several years. I did pull more recent data, and as we all know it's been very dry this summer and we're getting pretty close to some of the danger level that we saw between 2005 and 2009, 2014..sorry...It's starting to be a little more concerning up there, I'm hoping we get some moisture here. But one thing that's getting interesting is even so if we've had good conditions in early 2000 and 2004 and worst conditions in 2005 and 2009, but you can see this little patch of forest kind of that Northeast section by Mana'o that is still maintain a pretty healthy condition. And that seems to be mostly in response to fog drip. So, a lot of you know spend time on Mauna Kea it would get really misty up certain areas, and this little section right... by Pu'u Mana'o tends to get a lot more cloud cover then the rest of the mountain. So, that's the current theory for why that is proven to be more healthy or proving to have more healthy vegetation, even in really dry conditions and it tracks as well to see that's where the Palila is spending a significate portion of their time, based off our survey data. This kind of show...or tracks drought severity index so, you can see in the late 1990's we were coming out of a drought and in the 2000 we were in a drought and the early 2000 to 2014 were pretty severe drought conditions, and now we kind of hovering just out of drought since 2014 to 2025. 2025 we're dropping back into drought conditions. And then, one other thing, ...I'll highlight later...sorry...Key take away from this paper as vegetation health declined from late 2004 to 2013, the drought prevails in 74% of months from 2000 to 2005 to 2011, excuse me...really, really rough time for the mountain, particularly for Palila. The two worst droughts in the last century here, occurred in 2007...occurred 12 between 2007 and 2014, and they were most severed on leeward Hawaii Island. Because of these massive drought affects the Palila population declined dramatically. Now they are really being hit by these small population dynamics. So, basically if there is any level of predation or anything else that's preventing us from bouncing back now that we've had wetter conditions over these last several years. But with all of this possible drought refugia was located, so, we know this one area seems to be pretty resistant to drought. NOTE: A drought refugium is a localized area that retains higher levels of water or moisture during a drought, providing a habitat for plants and animals when surrounding areas are dry and inhospitable. So, that's really important because, that lines up directly with that previous study where the Palila hotspot was. So not only have we found the Palila hotspot, we also found the area that seems to be the most resistant to drought. So that really highlights the area that's really important one to be conserving in the future. So that brings us to, what is DOFAW doing to reverse the decline of the Palila and what are our future actions and what we would like to get implemented on the mountain. So, the big one that has been in progress for many, many years is forest restoration. So, in 2022 up till September of 2025, these are the number of trees we've replanted. 2022 particularly the Mauna Kea forestry reforestation project planted 31,000 trees, and about 29,000 trees, in 2023...a little over 21,000 in 2024 and so far in 2025 we're up to 18,000 trees planted and the last two years, the planting of trees have sifted a little bit...so most of the efforts were focus on the Pu'u Mali and the Kahoe restoration areas, we're now shifting a lot of restoration effort to that skyline road area, especially by Pu'u Mana'o to try to increase the size of that drought refuge area and hopefully get higher Mamane recruit and survival rates. The other thing that has really expanded over the last few years is predator's control, so, now Mauna Kea Forest Restoration Project and the East Hawaii Wildlife Program are operating over 1,000 cat traps on the mountain, these are in operation in all times, except during dog training season and the bird season. Because a lot of these traps are capable of killing dogs...and we don't want to hinder, or we don't want to have anybody lose their prized hunting dogs...companion in the cat control efforts. We also put in about 1,000 rat and mongoose level traps and this basically covers the whole area of Mamane and Na'io forest below the Palila area. ...below the Palila hotspot in an effort to control rats. And this is mostly to address some of these small population dynamics concerns. You know if we can save just a handful of Palila from getting killed by these nonnative predators it can go a long way in helping the population rebound. So, from 2022 to 2025 Mauna Kea Restoration Project has removed 312 cats from Mauna Kea, 396 mongooses, at least 106 rats, and 251 mice. I say at least for those two species, because the traps we are using for those are self-re-setting traps that just 13 drop the caucus below, we've had a lot of pigs come in and scavenge any of the animals that get caught by those traps, as well as mongoose and other things. Oh yeah, they also catch the mongoose so it kind of works both ways. That's the impact that predator control has had over the last couple of years. Like I said, we're really trying to increase that effort and really maximize targeting the area where Palila are currently found, to try to relieve them, and you can see Palila do spend time on the ground, so even the adult birds can be at risk from cats and other predators. And one of the other things that has been pretty exciting is that has been put on the ground too, is the automatic recording units, or ARU's so, basically what we have done working with Fish and Wildlife and a NOTE: In Hawaii, an Autonomous Recording Unit(ARU) is a self-contained device used for bioacoustics monitoring to record sounds in marine and terrestrial environments. Researchers use them to study and protect wildlife by recording animal vocalizations, tracking populations, and documenting environmental sounds over extended periods. couple of other partners, is place this grid of song meters, which is basically these little devices records bird song and just sound in general across the entire Palila range. So, across these yellow detections, are where the Palila have been heard, since that grid was deployed. So, we're coming up.... Once we hit November, the grid has been deployed for an entire year, and so, it will give us a really good...these recorders record on ten (10) minute intervals, from sunrise to eleven am - (11:00) am. It gives us a much better in dept view of where...of what habitat Palila are using, where they are and that is much, much better than of what we can get from just our annual surveys. So, this will hopefully give us a much better idea of where Pallia's are concentrating and the total area that the Palila are using. Right now, there are a hundred and thirty-four(134) recording units deployed and we service these and replace SD cards every quarter when we do those quarterly Palila surveys. And the nice thing is that we are able to use quarter data like this to do population estimates, so this might be able to give us a real population estimate like every month or every quarter at the very least. Once we really get this process automated and work efficiently. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done to figure those out exactly, fortunately what we are going able to do is correlate those quarterly surveys to the times, when these quarters are out...so we can get a really good comparison between the two (2) methods and hopefully figure out a lot more information about how Palila are using the landscape and when. So, this is getting into our future direction, but we're really hoping to get up there, hopefully in the next few years the cat-proof fence. Now we are targeting a four hundred (400) acre fence and that would be for the folks who are familiar with the area off of R-12 just to try and create one, at least one area where there's going to be zero (0) cats predation on Palila and it's really targeting the area that we found, the most nest in the last few years as well as also going around that drought refugia and Palila hotspot. So, it's nice that we can find using this different methodology, we able to find like this most 14 important area for Palila and can then target that area for more intense predator removal and hopefully predator, like complete predator protection. And the other method that we're looking at expending in the next year or so is rear and release. So, from this methodology we're going to do is collect eggs from wild Palila, because what typically Palila when their egg....they'll readily re-nest, so the idea is we're trying to double their output for one (1) year. So, we can go and collect the egg from the wild nest, bring those into captivity, rear them up until they are like fledging birds and release those back into the wild flock in the same fall period. So, they can integrate with the wild birds and learn strategies, basically the hope is to effectively double the output of all those Palila pairs that we are able to find in the wild nesting. And so, what this is going to entail is the construction of a flight aviary, so it would be about 100 feet by 100 feet aviary, near the Palila discovery trail. Then we'll actually have birds out on the landscape in the aviary, once they have been there for a few weeks following their transition from captivity they actually be release into the wild flock. So, hopefully this will increase the number of Palila, but also bring them back to that area where there are a lot of good resources and restoration and predator control occurring. And just to provide a little bit of an end goal scenario I want to highlight the Palihoa, this is a native finch species that is found on Nihoa, and this one is amazing. They currently live on an Island Nihoa that is about one hundred seventy (170) acres. And on that Island, they have density of birds they have about forty-three (43) birds per acre. So, you can think back Palila was about around two (2) birds per acre in an area where there were no predators, and habitat has been regenerating and it's in pretty...in it's in safe...and they are completely safe from predators...their population could really increase in a relatively small area. So, this gives me a lot of hope for work going on in that Palila refugia area. We can really buckle down on predators and really get that habitat into better conditions, we have a lot of potential for these birds to rebound. Yeah, there is a lot of different things impacting them here on the main Islands that these birds out in the Northwestern aren't dealing with. Also, the big caveat is these Palihoa on Nihoa, they are very generalist, so they'll eat everything from dead seabirds to seabird eggs, to grass seeds to insects. NOTE: Caveat a warning or proviso of specific.s..t lcat�, , „'>, conditions, or limitations. NOTE:Generalist:In environmental science, a generalist is a species with a broad ecological niche, characterized by its ability to adapt to a wide range of environmental conditions, consume diverse food sources, and thrive in various habitats. Where as Palila are really specific to Mamane, so they are never going to quite get to these densities, but historical densities of Palila as many as 4-5 birds per acre. So, hopefully in an area where we are doing intensive management, we can get that...those numbers again. So yeah, that's pretty much everything I have today and I'm sorry that there was a lot of information and I'm happy to take any questions. Yeah, I just 15 appreciate you folks for giving me the opportunity to present on this and appreciate your interest on Palila. LT: Oh, that was a fine presentation...Thank you very much sir for that presentation. That was a lot of information. First Leomana District 3, First, I just wanna say thank you we've been waiting to have you on for the past couple months, sorry for all the road blocks and the stuff that have popped a up...but thank you very much for the presentation. I'm just going to jump into what I've been thinking about and maybe you can talk about this, is the drought factors and in two thousand twenty (2021) we had that really big fire...across the island and I was looking at the Stats and report, I didn't see too much of a disturbance in population count and I wanted to get your opinion or your thoughts on the...how fires that big cannot affect the Palila count so much. BM: Yeah, that one is mostly just based on area. That huge fire, the smoke and everything probably had a negative impact on the birds, unless it destroys the habitat that they are in, it's probably not going to have a big impact on the populations. And so far, surprisingly we have been very lucky the area where Palila is found has been pretty resistant to fire. Even we've had some recent fires nearby that was started by PTA activities that got very close to Palila habitat and burned into some of the critical habitat area, but over the last several years, 2021 it came right up to the boarder of that big Parker Ranch fire came right up to the boarder of the forest reserve, but or by some miracle it didn't go into the forest reserve itself. So that's kind of the main reason why they haven't been impacted because their habitat hasn't been impacted by the most recent fires, however it's always a continuous concern. Historically a lot of their habitat has burnt in the past and Palila probably can never go back to those areas because the canopy is completely gone. So that's why it's super important to protect a lot of these canopy areas and to really control and keep down the fountain grass, and other invasive species that perpetuate fire. LT: Thank you and for my second question, I saw that you put the map up there with the voice recorders and that bottom boundary, is that bottom boundary line on top of the proposed release Pohakuloa land that DLNR has been discussing with the Army or do you have any of the Audio recording Palila recording equipment on the base actually or in the area? BM: Yeah... so that bottom back boundary...I'm trying to think.... I think that just where, unfortunately we don't have enough recorders to cover the entirety of the Palila core habitat right? So, the bottom area, is sort of kind a like...we extended down below where we had the lowest detection of birds, in the last five (5) years. Currently we do not have any recorders in the PTA areas, or the lease lands, that's mostly because we haven't had any detections of the birds for many years. That's definitely something we can look at and put a handful of recorders down to the extent of their range. If we do 16 pick up any birds in PTA, but as far as I know, they haven't been recorded down there since the 1950's and 60's. LT: Thank you very much, sorry just the interruption, but can we let the person in the waiting room, I saw his name up there for a couple of minutes... and I wanted to see if we could get him in, before we continue...... JK: (IT tech) So I messaged him privately and asked him to call the mayor's office just to confirm his identity and I have not heard from him in the past ten (10) minutes TWC: I personally know him; he comes to me from DOFAW office and meetings LT: So, you're going to let this person in? JK Oh they just left the meeting TWC: I was just texting him, but I never like to interrupt the presentation LT: Sorry about that. JK He can try join again [inaudible] LT: Okay, thank you, thank you very much...that situation we got to clear up. Moving forward...Commissioners any discussion? JA Justin District 9 - Brett, I didn't hear you mention anything about the ariel eradication of the ungulates upon Mauna Kea, and Kaohe? BM: That's still on going, that's a court order mandate that DLNR is required to do and basically right now there's quarterly flights that are done to remove sheep from Palila habitat and typically around forty (40) to hundred and twenty (120) animals have been removed per quarter, and that's still all open for public salvage. So, people are welcome to contact I believe in the West Hawaii office to set up anytime they would like to go in and salvage those animals. But still, that's mostly just an effort to reduce the impact of sheep on the Mamane. As you folks know Mamane is a palatable species and sheep tend to have a pretty big impact. And unfortunately, we have been seeing more sheep in that refugia area, I got to know folks up there more recently, but there's a lot of Silver Swords planted, and we've been seeing a lot more herbivore on those Silver Swords. But, in recent years, I think most recently they ended the most recent report they removed a hundred and twenty (120) animals. It was a more grass event than usual and the perimeter fence for Mauna Kea, the last section the negotiation is still happening and that's going through Kukaiau Ranch area so once that's closed there probably less sheep and grass. For right now it's pretty continuous, we're dealing with about forty (40) to a hundred and twenty (120) animals being removed every quarter. 17 BL: Then the next one, you know I hunt Kaohe. Mauna Kea, I'm up hunter's road a lot frequently and I see those cat traps in states of disrepair all the time. Is there a calling number or I don't see any numbers on the cat traps where you can say, hey cat trap number 12 is completely pau, is there a better system for monitoring those? Or reporting that they are done? BM: So...the traps are checked once per month by Medford staff, and we do have issues with vandalism. So potentially you're just encountering traps that are vandalized, and a lot of the traps look pretty gnarly, but they are still effective, so a lot of the [inaudible].... are rusty and beat up...they definitely could use some maintenance every now and then. And usually like right now is the maintenance period and because they're gone in and removed those traps for game dog training, they bring those traps back and do the dips and stuff, to make them more resistant to weather. Oh, yeah, if you do ever see one, know that they are checked once a month, but you're welcome to send me an email if you see something out of the ordinary. I can put my email out in CHAT and you folks can reach out. I'll put my email when the chat opens back up. NOTE: While no specific "DOFAW" staff reporting cat trap vandalism Hawaii pdf" document was found, the Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR) and its Division of Conservation and Resources Enforcement (DOCARE) have clear channels for staff and the public to report illegal activities, including animal cruelty or vandalism. TC: Taysen Wong Chong District 2-just got a few things...I appreciate your time, first of all, I might drill you a little bit,just give you a heads up, it's just a failed department of what I'm saying about that, I've been hunting there since the 80's, I grew up here as well, I continuous see in R-1 a lots of traps to this day, that have been there like two (2) years, that haven't been managed and they still have the poles as well, I have some traps that the grass are like three feet (3') grown through the trap, so I don't understand how the concept of every month being managed and taken care of, because of there the grass takes forever to grow? The biggest problem that I have up Mauna Kea is, how the sheep is always blamed on the grazing, but if we have the effort of watering stations and continuous filled water stations, which force these sheep to graze on top of these Mamane right, that's one of the biggest concerns and effort should be implemented ....Like quarterly you said get about forty (40) to hundred and twenty (120) sheep, we spend about over twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) every quarter on this efforts, when to be honest a lot of hunters, including myself actually got our motivation taken away because of these efforts, because of the fact like, why are we going to go up there and waste our time, not wasting time, but what I mean by this, in the past twenty years (20) you know the decrease of animals, majority is on Hawaiian Homes, ....so...[includible], what I'm trying to say is that, maybe some of those effort, even though it is court ordered, I always hear court order, court order, court order, I understand that, but with the newest data, there can be amendments...I did take a look in different States and to 18 where different situations have been brought up in court orders, into where amendments can be made, especially when I hear certain areas only focus on birds populated right now. Where there can be certain amendment mandates to this ariel shooting. Why not focus on the money effort of the eradications into more into the Palila efforts. How do you guys have that egg situation going on, how you guys going be using more stations, maybe more efforts into the trapping. It seems to me the bigger, what I heard, the bigger problem so far is the drought number one (1) and the predators, that's the second. So, when I hear all that, in the public eye, the sheep are being blamed for all this. So what I'm trying to say is that, maybe in the department, in your folks department if there's a way, because I know there is a way...you guys can bring this effort up with, back into the court, say like hey let me jump off for a little bit...I actually studied environmental science forestry myself. I did work with DLNR in the past on contract situation and visually from what I see on the mountain right... if there is ...if those waters could be taken care of, I can guarantee you that grazing will be at a minimum. I another problem that I have is the so call department that takes care of land, you know last year, when they did the road maintenance, they asked us to be there and they took out some Mamane trees, while widening the roads, and to me when people seen that and heard, was reported back to the office, nothing was done, why?, was it because it was the department? No! to me it's like, we're going to blame the sheep, kill them off, right, but nothing is done to the dry ....??? [inaudible] that is wiped out twenty feet (20") of the road, the Mamane tree that's protected... There tends to be a lot of changes in that situation, I'm all for restoration as well, so to me it's like, again if we are going to restore the forest, if the excavators took out a hundred trees (100) we need to plant two hundred (200) trees, you know what I'm saying? Even with the watershed guys, I talked to the watershed guys, you know about the fencing going on, if they going to cut x-x-number of trees, I actually asked one guy, "Did you guys keep one of the trees you guys cut, the answer was No,"...why is that? So, there are a lot of different efforts that need to be changed as well, including the eradication. I just wanted to point out the situation. BM: Yeah, definitely appreciate all those points, and you know I think, there is definitely room for change you know, it's just trying to navigate the legal process to implement it. One of the other things is that I really want to highlight that you know those are the animals' quarterly eradications have removed, but hunters by far have removed more animals than the quarterly eradication, so we really value your folk's input and contribution to Mauna Kea as well. So, I guess that road widening you are speaking of is actually some of the fire prevention measures that we've been putting in and that what is the fire break expansion so all of that expansion off of the road, is not necessarily to expand the road, but expand the fire break. While it really is unfortunate loose some of those trees, we kind of.... the rationale behind that effort, if we could expand those fire breaks, if there is ever a big fire in the area, hopefully the fire break can stop it, and we 19 end up saving more trees. As you see we're planting tens of thousands more trees per year on Mauna Kea to restore the mountain. We could definitely improve and keep track of any trees that are moved during road maintenance or fire break maintenance that is definitely something we can work on in the department. I can follow up with the branch staff to make sure that that's done. I think there is some wiggle room, and I'm definitely committed to working with you folks to find that, because I think, a lot of things got push a little too far, but it's going to take a lot of work too, bring it back around. I hope that answered most of your questions, and concerns. TC: Yeah, Taysen District 2 again, I just want to...is there like a time frame to, the reason why I ask that question, is because I've been going to meetings like that since I was a kid, when is this going to amend this situation ... [Background talking going on by others in the meeting] BM: I didn't get your whole questions, your kind of breaking up a bit...Just to clarify you're asking, what would be the timeline for working on an amendment like this... TC: The reason why I'm asking is that I'm going to be forty years (40) old, I've been going to meeting like this since I was kid, I would like to see the change in my lifetime, my kids, BM: That's a good question, that has to come from within...it would have to come from basically from you folks, the issue that we are working with is like, if this was completely within State jurisdiction, we can kind of file an amendment at any time, but because this is a Federal court case...it really kind of ties our hands...honestly in an ideal world I would love to see a world where we have hunting units on Mauna Kea, because there are areas that aren't really suitable habitat for Palila, however they all are important areas for watershed right, so that's the other thing we have to consider. It's not just Palila, it's also watershed resources and things of that nature. But I always been of that opinion, we should be trying to get as much as we can out of our public resources, we want people to be able to bird watch, we want people to be able to hunt, we want all of the above right? So, I think that's what I'm committed to working towards. I don't have as much information on the legal side of things. I can reach out to our folks more information from our attorney general, yeah, I'm definitely interested in trying to work with you folks to open up possible units. You know... Jus Pang-Ching has been working to open up some areas for dogs for pig hunting and try to encourage different opportunity, maybe not sheep, yeah..l'm definitely committed as a forestry person and a hunter to try and like make both of these world work together a little bit more, unfortunately I can't get back to you on a timeline until I talk to the legal representatives. CF: Sorry to interrupt real fast kind...This is Cody from crop council, I think some of our commissioners on zoom are unable to do anything, raise hands, unmute, commissioner 20 Aquino was wanting to possible to collaborate, but there's locks,just FYI in here and on zoom, we are aware of the issue. AA: I'm able to speak. Abel commissioner District 7...my video is locked for some reason. Thank you, Brett, your presentation was awesome and comprehensive. LT: We're trying to figure out the legality of having the camera on, but I think we can hear you. We just cannot have a vote...crop council...I don't know.... CF: We have quorum otherwise. LT: We have quorum otherwise without him...okay we good you can continue... AA: I just want to ask a question, is there any research what has causing these droughts? BM: So, it's kind of a natural cycle, but overall Hawaii is getting hotter and drier. Over these last several years, and over the last serval decades, and a lot of that kind of point to the increase in climate warming that we're seeing allover the planet. Hawaii...fortunately has been relatively insulated from some of the most extreme impacts, we've been very fortunate, we haven't had severe storms, but in general the whole world is warming, that's probably going to be impacting the conditions. It's really going to be difficult to assets what's going to be the future, because there's two different papers that have come out...I don't have them off the top of my head, but I can probably look them up for you. But one points up to Mauna Kea getting drier... another one points to Mauna Kea getting wetter... So even amongst the publish resources like that, that have been deployed...available there's disagreement. Really difficult what the long-term trend is going to be. But this is probably the natural cycle in the Pacific. So, in the 1880's, 1890's super bad drought in Ka'u and displaced a bunch of people and a big impact on the birds, and this is kind of the latest iterations, that it is difficult to know what exactly, what's impacting it, some of it there seems to be some change in the cloud cover, so that could be a big impact you know. There's another paper that's looking at a reduction in cloud cover you know...over the next ten (10) —twenty (20) years. That's going to be another impact...we're going to try to figure out means of... different means of assessing it ... getting a better understanding...hopefully as technology gets better, we can get a better idea. But, for right now all we can generally say is the global trends of increasing temperatures are certainly not going to be helping. AA: Any information like Waikea selling our water, things like that kind of affecting our aquafers or maybe that? BM: I don't know any direct ties that kind of thing. Anytime you're impacting water tables, you know you could have some direct impact to total water availability... and that area is all connected... all in one major aquafer. So, it could have an impact, but I'm not aware of any data that shows that. 21 LT: All right all good...Leomana District 3 1 just wanted to close this up. Thank you very much. Hold on, okay... BL: Brian District 4 Thank you for your presentation and everything... Couple of other things, you said the fire wasn't a big issue, but according to your own thing... 2021 we had the Mauna fire and the Palila population decrease 21.8% and the following year it was a 38% decrease, so I think the smoke did have major concern that and the seedlings.... I'm up there all the time, when the sheep are ground... and keeping the grass... and the Mamane seedlings...I have pictures, sheep trails... Mamane saplings... and say like before the extreme excuses sheep go on the Mamane and also, if we open it up get the sheep in there to keep the fire load down, the vegetation that the Mamane trees would going to the grasses that are shallow rooted...sucking all the moisture out of the water...so if we get the sheep in there, we get the fire loads down, things down, the Mamane seeds can germinate on their own...inaudible...as far as the cats... with the fences ... told DLNR getting a pack of hound dogs, remove the feral cats... and look up Ben Lily he was early 1900's, he was with a pack of dogs and wiped out mountain lions in the log Western States, single handily, one man with a pack of dogs... wiping out mountain lions...he and two dogs did a more effective jobs than a thousand (1,000) traps and some fencing, anybody else for that matter... A year ago ... inaudible...one thing I had on the electric grid, did you guys take into effect that they have apps now that play bird songs? If you had that out there and you had some guy with this app playing Palila songs trying to get one to talk back to them, oh my god, this is a miraculous recovery, hearing birds all over the place. The lawsuit thing is old...the last nine (9) months our Judges are jumping up stopping Federal dictates on a whim... so 1 can't see why the State, the sheep aren't the problem, we're wasting money, we're wasting resources, fire is a bigger damage, we need to stop this... oh you know it's a federal mandate... We have lawsuits back in the days... saying Slavery was okay...now we can overturn things... you know this is getting old... Everybody here has been talking, I'm personally disgusted that the fences has ruined PTA, once you guys put these animals in live stocking conditions and then you throw your hands up and say look at the environmental damages, No...you turned them in to live stocking, denied them water and you cry about why we have these environmental damages... you know you can put water up there...you know, concrete and stuff... the sheep have water I know I'm on a rant and we're running out of time...but I just wanted to have my say... I see a lot of things that could be improved....and leave the sheep alone. BM: Unfortunately, the court case and things and we know the sheep does have an impact on the ecosystem...and we are not denying that... I think there are some level of harvest that, or there is some level of animals that can be allowed and you can have regeneration but we still don't really know what that is... but we do know from the history that sheep have a big impact on native ecosystem... in general and especially on the dry ecosystem take thirty (30)—forty (40) years for one tree to reach maturity. 1 22 definitely appreciate any of your comments or concerns and we'll definitely take it into account if you send those in to me. I still don't have; the CHAT is still disable and I can't put my email there... I'll be happy to send it to you folks later... and reach out anytime. LT: All right...thank you sir... Thank you very much...just to close it out, we'll get the CHAT open and you can drop your email and stay in contact...I just wanted to say thank you for your presentation... a lot of the data inside can be used to change what we just discussed...so, I appreciate it a lot and we would definitely have you back with us in the next one or two meetings. BM: Appreciate all of your folks input as well... LT: Mahalo... All right thank you very much for holding that very long presentation... I know we have 45 minutes left. We have been trying to get these presenters over the last five (5) months and anything you guys need to say and get it out right now is the time. Okay, thank you very much...shake it out...we're moving on to Agenda item #5b Ryan Okano, Division of Aquatic Resources (DAR) Department of Land and Natural Resources to speak on the proposed Division of Aquatic Resources Community Project entitled, "Resurrecting the Wailoa Station to Support 'Ama'ama Production to Help Revitalize Fishponds." And, to share an update on various DAR Hawai'i Island community efforts. Aloha sir, welcome... b. Ryan Okano, Division of Aquatic Resources (DAR) Department of Land and Natural Resources to speak on the proposed Division of Aquatic Resources Community Project entitled, "Resurrecting the Wailoa Station to Support 'Ama'ama Production to Help Revitalize Fishponds." And, to share an update on various DAR Hawai'i Island community efforts. RO: Yep, thank you, so I just have a variety of updates... and bring up if you guys have questions, so I am going to take them one by one... I prioritized them so if I go too long you guys just cut me off. Bob Duerr knows me so I can always come back and stuff like that...So the first one I'm going to talk about is stock enhancement so this is something that we have done in the past if you remember...back in the day...we still have a station... down by Wailoa by the old Ironworks, back in the day...we use to grow up mullets and station use to release them back into the ponds... to enhance fishing experience for the people...so we trying to do that again...so, kind of get the station up and running again...oh this first (1St) phase, we get some funds, and we get used to it...not pay anybody to breed fish for us yet, we going to catch fish from the wild, practice growing them out...make sure the station is all good like that the end game is to get somebody to breed fish for us...down by our facility by Puhi bay... that would be the guys for breed for us... we would then grow it out... the phase of growing out is very important, because that increases 23 survivorship, because if we release them too small then they get eaten up... a lot of them don't do as well... so the grow up phase is important, so this station was useful in the past, that's what we plan on doing. In this...as we engage stakeholders one of the concerns that came up with stock enhancement was the genetics of the fish we are using, as well as disease of the fish that we're releasing, so we have worked on the genetic study partners at Hawaii Pacific University looking at Ama Ama genetics. The findings of that were that the Ama Ama throughout the State of Hawaii is pretty much one population. But at the same time if we were to proceed with breeding mullet or paying somebody to breed mullet for us,the goal would be to source the brood stock from the place you would release, in this case it would be Wailoa...the mommies and daddies from there basically. On top of that we have secured Federal earmarked funds... to do Wailoa habitat restoration and here we are trying to take a two-prong approach, one is we're trying to put more fish in there, and by the same time we are trying to improve the habitat. So that habitat improvement consists of removing invasives and the focus is removing California grass...California grass is problematic to the ecology. Many people believe it sucks up nutrient silica that is very important for the limu that the mullet like to eat... that limu that the mullet fisherman use for bait, if you guys are familiar with their style. It's a diatom that they need silica to grow, and the California grass takes a lot of silica to grow, so we're thinking that by removing that California grass it will grow more of this limu food to grow that the mullet like to eat. In addition, it'll create more sun and create more space for the fish themselves. The California grass is also problematic for our partners and State Park, because they drift down, partners for DOBOR it goes all the way to the harbor... it's a big problem this California grass. When it starts coming down the river... a lot of the DLNR agency mobilize and they try to take care of it before it gets out into the bay... So, there are many problems with California grass. So, when we remove California grass. We hope to plant native species such as Akahakai, Aiai and Hala. Those are plants that provide good habitat forthe mullet, especiallythose plants Aiai in particular is a plant that has been documented in photos from that place. So, we are trying to kind of restore it back to what it was...What we think what it was... Yeah, in addition to that restoration we hope to...we going try to asses and figure out if it is appropriate cultural styles of improving habitat like umu (?) or putting out stacks of rocks to create habitat for other species potential for the Aholehole construction. There are some of them down by Richardson in that little pond... there's some umu? in it, it's interesting, we'd like to explore that... by the people down there, if they could help us out... So, that's like habitat restoration... stock enhancement. The next thing I would like to touch on is stakeholder engagement and we've been trying to up our game. Stake holders for the past couple of years, a year and a half about we started this fish working group which Bob is on and among other fisherman we meet monthly to discuss fish issues and fish concerns... I 24 should have opened with this but, our agency is division of aquatic resources. And we manage fish, limu, coral, and even opai everything that's living in the water. We do not manage the water itself... water quality which is how clean the water is ... is generally managed by the department of health. Water quantity, the giving and taking of water in our streams for various uses, that's under the Commission of Water Resource Management and at the same time we acknowledge these things as mentioned about water are very important to things we manage. We don't shy away with discussion with that;and at the same time, we acknowledge the guys who make the rules about that. We are interested in water quality, we are interested in water quantity, we work with Sea worm to do studies as to understand how the giving and taking of water influences the fish, the o'opu and the mullet and stuff like that. Just wanted to touch on that. Yeah,just what our jurisdiction is and at the same time where our interest is and where we see... what we can do to improve the situation of the aquatic resources, other ways instead of just making rules. So, stay in engagement we assemble a fishing working group, but I have engaged other communities, my community is TKO and I have been engaging them trying to develop projects, engaging Keaukaha and we just started to engaging lower Puna a bit more. This is just kind of like the beginning not engaging anybody on Hamakua Moku or Ka'u Moku yet, but we hope to reach to those guys... again backing up...my position is that I'm the lead for East Hawaii... so that's my space East Hawaii, we also have another sister position in West Hawaii same position as me,we divide the Island pretty much in half. So, things I talk about in East Hawaii, but if you guys have questions about West, or Statewide stuff I can do my best to answer, if I cannot answer, I can do my best to find out and get it to you guys. So, on that stakeholder engagement team, there is this effort going on currently on Maui County or Maui Island or the Island of Maui...called the Holumu effort and it's an effort where its stakeholder driven you know where we assemble a group of stakeholders, and they come up pretty much a plan, for what DAR should do. So that's going on Maui so it's being going on pre-covid, so it's being going on for a long time. They have a navigation team, and the navigation team meets and discusses and makes rules, recommendations, and restoration ideas. Looking at the full gambit of tools in our toolbox to better manage the aquatic resources. I mentioned that effort that is happening on Maui Island and it's coming to an end and it's going to be initiated on our Island next. So, that is going to start out with a bunch of six or seven meetings throughout the Island and that's probable going to happen next year sometime, we're hoping before Summer. And that is the initial meetings and we're going to ask for nominations for that Navigating Team... And that's the team that's going to meet and figure out a plan for how we can manage the resources better. So, looking at the stakeholders and looking at the grassroots and the input of the stakeholders and we realize our task is to be big to do it by ourselves, we need the peoples help, so we are trying to get help from the people. 25 And that's it, I will stop there, and if you guys have any questions on the things I mentioned or questions, on the activities and responsibilities of my division go for it. ?? (Public person asking question. He did not state his name). So, I have a question...it might be related...how safe is the Wailoa basin? Question...it might be related...how safe is the Wailoa basin? RO: On the water itself...So I'm not an expert on this, I'll just share, what I hear, what I know and what I think...From what I understand you know there is a lot of history in that space. Like that space was a space of abundance, plenty fish, plenty kalo, growing down there, but after a time period it was heavily industrialized. A lot of people used to live there and stuff like that. People have found arsenic, one of the main things I hear about... and from what I understand the arsenic is still there, but it's buried, it's kind of buried and I think there has been studies done on fish, you know. It all depends on I don't know the exact numbers, if you eat too much you might get sick...arsenic if you don't eat too much, like I said I don't know the numbers. Should be safe... That's what I understand, maybe you can share, but I don't know... ?? (Public person speaking.) I just know stories, at one time they used to tell us stories that those waters are polluted, so don't eat the fish from there. I was just wondering how bad it has migrated into the bay and down Keaukaha way, because the current goes that way and has the State done anything to remedy it? RO: Yeah...That's a challenge when you look at a legacy challenge like that...like a legacy problem...you know, it's been that age of misuse, mismanagement that puts us were we are at. So, solution is going to be super challenging. When I think about that space and you think about arsenic, you could probably dredge it, but could that cause more harm than good? I mean, I don't know. I don't know...I eat the fish in that space... I don't eat a lot, but we catch mullet sometimes we catch too much to eradicate them...we eat some... ?? (Public Person speaking). Plus,you get the drainage from up there that keeps adding more junk and there should be some entity in the State that can try to address this, I mean long term. RO: Yeah... ?? I don't mean to...inaudible, I mean into the future you know.... RO: So, like again like I mentioned early talking about water, quantity issues, water quality falls under the Department of Health... inaudible.... we're interested in that... it's about the fish and the fisherman. The fisherman are the primary stakeholders, and we got to 26 take of that too, ...This space that we're talking about is kind of a gray space and it's hard, but we're not shying away from it... working that space we need support and like ideas and stuff like that too, you know what I mean... How we could improve it... Maybe a comprehensive study...Department of Health to do a full assessment. You know we have partners that plan to install some permanent water quality monitoring stations not going to [inoudible]...but I think it's going to get in the dirt like, like the dirty water, that the sensors can measure that but it's not [inaudible]arsenic. You know turbidity probably is one of the parameters that would be obtainable so, some things are going to happen. ?? Thankyou LT: Leomana District 3 - Mahalo for the presentation... we've waiting for you to come here a long time... I appreciated it and I just got a couple of questions.Just knowing you are part of the Wailoa fisheries... Number 1 is the brown line around Wailoa is that from the County spraying poison, comes up from the water's edge? I notice every once in a while, the whole Wailoa pond is like a poison line that goes all the way back into town goes all the way back to the Green Onion. I was just wondering what kind of pesticide to herbicide they are spraying. RO: My division we spray a little bit in our space. Which is that little space over there and we use a little bit Aquamaster is what it is called. But the whole greater area is State parks they would know more about that. I suspect they spray too, but I don't know what they use frequently when they spray stuff like that. LT: Another question, we were talking about Talapia earlier, last year or the year before they had record sizes in Wailoa Park. What are the fishing rules behind taking out invasive, can I go in there with a spear or a gun or to try and get Talapia out? Or do we leave you guys to figure that out? RO: Yeah and no, you cannot, you got to follow the rules...you cannot, you guys seem to know the rules, these things that are illegal to do in Wailoa, but we've been trying and it's a problem and we have been trying to come up with creative ways, to address these issues. For us Talapia is a big issue, but to us the Konda mullet is a bigger issue. We see it like that as it is an active competition with the stripe mullet AmaAma,the more desirable one. And the problem with the Konda doesn't get big and even if you were to throw net on it the legal eye size of the net is generally too big to catch that Konda mullet. We've been brainstorming some ideas and when others, for example some fishpond caretakers in Keaukaha, they have problems with Konda they call on me and we do eradication for them. And we go out there with our smaller nets and we use to sample and study the estuary, and we catch the Konda mullet, and we give it to them. They cook it up and eat 27 it. That's one approach...What we aspire to do is kind of set up a program and this would need funding and we're always looking for funding trying shop around for ideas and appropriate funding sources and one idea that we had was to this Konda round-up events where we at DAR have about half a dozen nets that are small eye illegal nets, and we will train people on how to identify them. Identify the differences between fish,the way they behave, the way they look and so they can target the appropriate fish. And have these times maybe once a month or couple times a year allow the public to use these nets in a supervise way to help us catch the Konda mullet...you know I'm sure you would throw on the tilapia and we wouldn't be upset about that either. We're kind of trying to figure out ways to engaged and empower the stakeholders, like I said to manage the resources it's a sticky one because you know a lot of people acknowledge that the Konda is a food resource but I have not heard anybody calling us to decrease the size of eyes of the throw net, nobody has told us to do that. So, I recognize the value of that rule, once we start allowing that kind of stuff it's harder for us to control and manage you know what I mean, who is always doing illegal stuff and who is doing the right thing. LT: Ok, pau for now thank you. TC: Taysen Wong Chong District 2 — I kind of have the similar question I want to ask, first question, I remember years ago that's when I first started fishing all my life, even the pandemic time...I had a permit, and I was one of the few that was fishing in Wailoa. I had to go to the State building get the permit and whatever...but this is just one rumor I heard...remember when the pond had choke seaweed, what happened to all that? RO: Awwwe I don't think anybody knows...So, like, I'll say, I probably wasn't here when the pond had choke seaweed...I'm from here, grew up and born in Pepeekeo, I've lived on Oahu, lived on the island of Saipan and I've come back home, within the past two yea rs...and I know when I came back to Hawaii, that was in 2017 around there...They experienced a massive decline of limu State wide...and people couldn't figure out why? What was interesting was good limu, bad limu, invasive limu, all kinds limu in declined. Some people attribute it to climate change, some people attribute it to differences in rain falls, some people attribute it to herbivory (the state or condition of feeding on plants) nobody really knows, it happed throughout the State. TC: I remember after that big flood, I don't know what year was....but that one had wiped out a lot of them...that was just my curious question...My next question was like how Leomana said...I guess you guys already when talk to that...my question was going to be like, would you guys ever....obviously talk story like, individuals right...me I would be like the Talapia, you know... the smaller version of the...is that like the type of Australian mullet? 28 RO: As another nick name they follow... TC: Something like the effort like Training...make it like [inoudible]...how you guys make the tournament for the Tilapia...do it like a family event, and you guys provide the nets...and it could be a fun community event...to where like...you know how we get the moi dive events? Like that stuff...it could be beneficial but a fun event as well...and pololei thing...like it would be a good thing...like you know, especially for that information...inaudible. So, the catchment by Ironworks was it practically mudded? Inaudible.... RO: That's what we are focuses on, we've engaged on, it all depends...on the stakeholders of what they like...I mean so, we've been engaging a lot of people, fishpond guys too...they have great interest in mullets and that what the reason why we've been focusing on mullet...release mullet in Wailoa, we know it's been successful...but we focus on mullet...but people have brought up other potential fish...we not...we wouldn't shy away from it...and we would enter discussion, and we would try to address the concerns. We trying to release moi, about a year ago...and right about then, we got in trouble...I got in trouble for that... TC: To me honestly I was going actually write up...because I remember when I was in high school, I use to go night time fishing a lot...over there right across the catchment...we use to use the ...[inoudible]..I know it's illegal, but the baby Aholehole...that is what they use to bite nighttime...the Moi's... I use to catch like two (2)to three (3) pounds of Moi's over there...and I remember one night we caught --- inaudible----and that was on land...and guarantee we miss like 5-6...oh yeah we caught like three pound Moi's and this is night time by the catchment...so, if I get in trouble like that...I would love to see an abundance of Moi's in the pond you know what I mean....it would be a good thing to see... RO: We were trying to release Moi and then...at first we were going to release right in Hilo bay...oh...everybody going like that...nobody going grumble...there were a few key stakeholders that was bringing in concerns...so at that point we pivoted and we went to place base, so we tried to get permission from Keaukaha, and Pepeekeo to release... TC: I guess because they predatorial ... RO: That was another concern about Moi vs Mullet...that is for sure, there are these concerns...yeah and people was concern about the disease and the genetic of it...a few people in particular raised a ruckus and we did have permission, from Keauhou and Pepeekeo a moment in time to release...but they kind a got cold feet, and then eventually those pack rack who finally pulled out, because the Mullet was coming from them...we were just learning about these things...the goal was ultimately stock enhancement with 29 Mullet and they taught us things and they taught us a lot...about the concerns...major concerns the community had...which is genetics...and disease and we trying to address before we actually pay somebody do mullet for us the pack rack stuff help us release and it's true inaudible. TC: The other one with the rock stacking...you guys starting that? RO: No...we never...we never. TC: You should have been...I think a lot of fish would benefit from the rock stacking honestly... RO: Yea h...that is the kind of stuff we would like to talk to you know...and the fishpond guys who did it...we can learn from them more...something that that you know, stakeholders could help us do...you know what I mean...be cool if you open a rock from your place oh there, you know what I mean...making it more... LT: We were thinking of that...taking a rock and putting it over there to make it sacred like that... TC: I know a few guys...say, why you guys stacking rocks? Just like it's beneficial... RO: We trying to improve the habitat, one thing is to put the fish in there...we got to make the habitat good too. BL: Brian Ley District 4...I just got two questions...one you guys notice anything once they eradicated the mangrove tree forest whether there was a decline in the population or the quality of the water and stuff? Because I know that mangroves took each share of their pollutants out of the water and the roots were like good habitat for juvenile fish like that...did you guys notice any decline in anything since they removed the mangroves and stuff? RO: I know a little bit about mangroves...I don't know too much about mangroves stuff about what happened over here first I start off with that...My mangroves experience going come from stuff from Hei"ea on Oahu...where prior to coming back to Hilo...I lived on Oahu, working for division of aquatics resources my same division...you know-program manager role a little bit higher level...so I was involved in restoration...I was one of the project lead, participated and supported Kako'o Iwi, one of many non-profit in that Ahapua'a of Hei'ea. You know the fishpond, pai'pai' o'hea, they were doing the mangroves manually, so, like 20 years whatever's'...they'll still going cutting the mangroves...but above the bridge...Uncle O'iwi did a took a different approach using heavy equipment and stuff and they pretty much wiped out all the mangroves...Yes, mangroves from a global perspective is a treasure...it facilitates habitat...protect shorelines, it is a carbon sequester, there's a lot of positives to it...but in our Islands the 30 mangroves have not grown...with the organisms it supposed to protect...for example when the mangroves drop its leaves in Hawaii nobody eats it, it creates bad water quality, there is no crabs that eat the mangrove in other places...there not here...They also tend to clog or block conductivity. So, like you know, if a stream was open and flowing, where the o'opu's can go up and go down and the Mullet and Aholehole can go up and down, and we can have all that...the mangroves kind of also blocks it...it also creates and ovicide state, you know make that stink brown mud...and not too much oxygen in the water...it also prevents the limu growing too...the thing like Mullet like to eat. So, there's been a lot of ideas, and thoughts, activities related to mangroves removal, and I think so, that I've learned the most important is at He'ia and I've learned a lot...as they and that is what we are trying to model Wailoa after. That is what I learned... all the things I learned over there...and I'm trying to bring over here. We don't have mangroves, but we have California grass...they also do a lot of increasing the flow, creating corridors, creating habitat, using rocks to create habitat and such. Like I said mangroves is good...where it's native, but I don't think it's a good idea cut over hea... BL: Just remember that Pohiki was the main, all sort of fish and wildlife and everything there...and when they poison it, hurricane came and wiped them all out... it was just a cloak and dagger...it was quite sad seeing a vibrant ecosystem turned into just rocks washing up and down the shore... RO: When you take out, a plant is better than nothing a lot of the time in my mind...So, when you take it out, an invasive you got to put something back...I think that maybe the point, or something they failed, the part they never do...I think...What we are trying to figure out...what kind of plants that is good to replace...invasive plants that are providing a service...you know what I mean, another thing we are working on in my community in Pepeekeo is the Ironwoods on the shore...like it's betterthan nothing...people think there is a better plant than Ironwoods...that is going to sustain the cliff line...Sustain the cliff line is so important, not only for the resources, but people who own the property...you know what I mean...fisherman and the trails...the dirt going fall in the water and make the water dirty, cover the opihi grounds. So, we've been kind of thinking that too, I mean taking out the Ironwoods, putting something there, I mean creating a buffer line behind the Ironwood, then the Ironwood fall and get something else...trying to look at the plants, if you take out the plants you got to put something back. BL: I know that they've done Plantation things, what was replaced.Took out what was worse than what they removed...any possibility of Turtle management? RO: Turtle management BL: You are talking about eating all the limu, maybe we have too many turtles...and is there some reason we can have a slot to keep the population down... 31 RO: You not going to like this answer, it's kind of the same answer from the DOFAW guys...it's a federal thing you know...you know what I mean we would have to work with the Federal government...to open it up and some people say it must be an international thing. You know, I've eaten turtle, even in Palau, they have seasons, and I've eaten turtle...I know other places they don't close it down...they manage it, they have seasons...and back in the day we had size limits on turtle...When you harvest, kind of like when I watch TV...people harvest the gators...you have to get one tag and this and that...stuff like that. We did a management theme in place...back in the day, but the Federal government it's a challenge, it's much harder, but maybe now would be the time...certain administration is good for some things...or it's bad for somethings...you know what I mean [inaudible].... BL: Same thing with Mouflon sheep, we had 10,000 Mouflon sheep, that was way too much...but inaudible...was not the answer...we need...you come in the middle we need a manageable herd...you know the ones...inaudible...you know the turtles are scaping the rocks with their beak because there is nothing to eat...and it's affecting the fish population...that's competing with the native fish...See if that makes sense, but there's nothing that makes sense now days... RO: I think so...a lot of people would support some type of turtle take...but you have seen how the population change...it has increased, and nobody would deny that. BL: See if anybody has anything else... LT: Leomana District 3...Anybody has any questions for Mr. Okano right now? All right no questions.....I just want to say mahalo again for showing up and just a comment on that last one...about eating turtle. I did ask, I talked to a couple of DLNR agents about harvesting turtle under Article 12 Section 7 and we talked to the police chief of DAR, even if you are practicing traditional gathering rights...you will have to, if they caught you in the act they would arrest you...they would jail you and when you would go to court you would still have to prove...in court you were taking it legally...instead of not being harassed. I kind of no like that style, I understand why they do it like that...I don't fill out any paper work, I just go get them as a Hawaiian...but I wanted to bring up the legal status, but if DAR catches you and arrest you and you got to prove your case in court... RO: Yeah,that's how I understand it too. Was messed up because had one time,we was trying to and this is not turtles, but sharks...we was trying to do this thing,we have a special activity permit and we wanted to include cultural purpose in that special activities permit, right now it's for stuff like research, education, management you can do legal stuff, you have a special activity permit you can have small eye lay net...cultural special activity permit including cultural take, sharks we could do it is a State rule...the turtle we couldn't do that, Federal rule to... but the sharks we couldn't do that, but we got push back from I think so was from OHA...by doing that, we disregard the ruling 32 that you brought up and I can see that....[inaudible]....that was kind of weird...we need the space....the shark is managed by us,we don't want...put a rule of no can take...at least we can take shark...we could have some flex with that...like the turtle would be a little bit hard. 6. OLD BUSINESS a. GMAC creates an informational/marketing brochure design markups for Commissioners to consider. Chair Turalde and Commissioner Aquino b. GMAC 2025 First Quarter Report on its activities, Chair Turalde. c. General Plan update status as is currently being discussed by the County Council. Chair Turalde d. Report on the site visit with NARS, DOFAW. GMAC, and hunters of the proposed fencing of Puumakaala Forest from 800 acres. Chair Turalde. e. Firearms rules public update, on rulemaking for the firearms regulations. Chair Turalde LT: Yes,sirthank you very much foryour presentation...hopefully you get[inaudible]...all right we got about eight (8) minutes left...you know we have a lot of agenda items to cover and a lot of it is nonpriority. I'm just going to table from 6 all the way to the end...I did want to bring up under old business agenda item number 6 c which is the General Plan update and Status, so I had Mr. Alan Brown put this out...from the committee chair which is Ashley Kierkiewicz and her evaluation of all of the General Plans...and comparison between each one that came up with all the policy and action items...it's about 200 pages...if you guys want a copy, I will let them know and print you guys out a copy and you want one too uncle and tomorrow is a hearing at 5:00 o'clock you guys can read this one tonight if you guys plan to go to the hearing tomorrow, we'll figure that out...Kona, get'em on zoom...yep this is all four (4) of the General Plan...and going down to agenda item...number 7 B...this one says, the commission to discuss an official letter to Mayors' office asking for extension for commissioners terms...for the number of months that meetings were cancelled due to things we could not control. So, I just wanted to ... First make a motion...can I make a motion? CF: This is Cody, you can make a motion, but I want to point everyone back to the Hawaii County Charter which is Board and Commission...unfortunately no can... MA: (Micah Alameda) -You can hold over....90 days... 33 CF: You can always send a letter to the Mayor...in order to modify the Charter...you got to do a charter amendment...which requires a thing on the ballot...right in a year and half...right because we just had...last year 2024 so in 2026 we going have another...the council votes right...every two years is another charter amendment possibility. The Charter amendment action by council takes a while...so you got to build into it...something you guys want to do...you can do the letter...to ask the mayor to consider a proposal to our Charter amendment or you could bring it up with your local county representative or your council member for your district...but the charter is super clear and it applies to all boards and commission and not just GMAC. So, get choke that never have like my Salary commission we never had meetings but they going term out...however Mr. Alameda has indicating that made a provision when you pau your term so, there is limitation so I would suggest you look at 13-4 the fact sheet for GMAC doesn't say when you guys terms is, it just say when you term out...when you expire...So, I don't know if any of you would fit within the options to when you could re-up with the Mayor's approval...and that's based on if you are filling a term of two years or less...so if that is one of you guys...then you might be able to re-up if not then when you guys term out...you pau..you can holdover for 90 days...providing that your position, your district has not been filled by someone else....so that's the only 90 day leeway that we have under the charter, short of an amendment. So, you guys could do a motion to ask the mayor to consider a charter amendment proposal to council, but he doesn't have the authority unfortunately as much as we would like him to under the charter....eh you can do extra period because you guys never had meeting...unfortunately the charter rules that out????? TWC: Two years less, you can still do the extended term. Can you be re-appointed? CF: Yeah, re-appointed under the charter, if you were serving a term that was no more than that period of time. So, if you were a standard 3 year-4 year, cause those are standard yea h.... TC: So, if you were a 3 year—4 years, you can only do the 90-days before coming back in? CF: Yeah, no can...and you wouldn't be able to just back in right back into GMAC, you gotta take a break. You can get on another Board and Commission...then come back to GMAC TC: You got to stay out for a year yeah? LT: Two years, two years...I think we just went over this with Abraham that's why and so it's about two years (2) Leomana District 3 — I know that there's a charter and the Mayor gotta follow the charter, but this idea was just because we had four (4) meetings cancel on us, not that we didn't have meetings, we were all here and the meetings got cancelled for whatever reason, and we gotta follow the charter and the rules, but this was just to 34 put it out there and let them know that, Hey! We got four (4) meetings cancelled on us. Not, we never had four(4) meetings, that made me frustrated and for a calendar year 12 meetings, that's one quarter gone, that's all of us not getting our say, not having our presentations, and information not being passed and to me that's not okay. So, this letter is, I know it's not going to get us a longer term, but this letter is a way for me to bring it up to the people in charge and complain and say we need to do something different and if we have four(4) meetings cancelled on us, again in the County, we cannot succeed with meetings being cancelled and everybody's here. So, I'm just frustrated and I wanna make a complaint to somebody, and this is my way of bringing it up to the higher ups, Eh!, can you look at this, can you extend us, I know you cannot but do something. So.. CF: You can do a motion to, but you always...you're advisors, you can always draft a letter to the mayor...providing input feedback, concerns, whatever your needs are. You could do that, indicating your frustration with the following, and ask him to consider a charter amendment, to afford, so to cover situations like this. I don't know if that will actually happen right, but there is no harm in asking. RD: To draft that, to make a motion to draft that...to make it and take it to the next meeting? LT: It takes three (3) months, right? So, motion, we bring it back...vote on the final draft... RD: Counsel what ... CF: You could do that...the quicker way would be to provide authority, if you guys know exactly what you want the letter to say in essence...make the subject letter to say and provide authority to a particular member...to draft that proposal...within those parameters, the chair authority to sign, the chair is drafting it, to sign it and send it off to the mayor, with a courtesy blind copy to all members...that would just delay the next hearing and you guys can approve it, you know what I mean? LT: Yes... CF: But you really need to know what the parameters of the letter are, and whoever the author is, then they would stay within those parameters... RD: If we keep it really simple to asking to extend commission terms for a number of months that were cancelled... LT: That's it, that was my letter... RD: That's simple we have a concern 35 CF: Recognize that the charter doesn't currently allow for it...and to consider recommending charter amendments...He can't do that, what you're asking for, the only way to do that would be to amend the charter...so you could bring it to his attention...express the concern and the mechanisms to fix it would be a charter amendment...maybe cover all three (3). Action Item: L. Turalde made a motion to draft a letter to the mayor, and/or Council and the Board and Commissions head, Micha Alameda, to extend commissioners term for the number of months that the meetings were cancelled, suggesting that the mayor's office consider a proposed amendment to Hawaii County Charter Section 13-4 to allow situations such as this. Seconded by R. Duerr. Motion carried unanimously. LT: Leomana District 3: 1 would like to make a motion...to draft a letter to the mayor...to the mayor's office, council and to Mr. Micha Alameda, over here head of Boards and Commission...to discuss...asking to extend commissioners term for the number of months that the meetings were cancelled...to address the issues within the charter ... CF: Suggesting that the mayor's office consider a proposed amendment to Hawaii County Charter Section 13-4 to allow situations such as this... RD: So, it's going to go where it goes...after that... LT: The motion is to have one of the commissioners draft the letter and the chair to sign and send off...ASAP CF: Who's drafting? LT: We gotta make inaudible RD: I'll second that motion...and then discussion. LT: Okay...discussion, who can draft the letter? RD: I can work with counsel, and really simple paragraph LT: We'll sign and send it off...Roll call or all in favor? CF: All in Favor... LT: All in favor say Aye... Aye, any oppose, none seen all pass. Mahalo. RD: Chair, on that item, we're coming to the end of the year, and yourself and Brian...are terming out and another 90 day, moving forward, but still that brings us to a tight...we'II have 5 members on the commission...considering that Courtney's husband is 36 appointed...so we are in need of really good drafting new members...getting new members...pushed...ummm side to that, in the election of the new officers...we can do a permitted interaction group to discuss election of new officers...so that maybe a good idea...to put that together to see like...who wants to do it and what we look to accomplish next year...and we come to...we kind of have a plan before we go into the new year... CF: So, this is my thought...the need for the PIG...you don't need on just to nominate for officers...unless you think there really is ... discontent or disagreements amongst the parties... RD: We could talk amongst ourselves. CF: You could talk individually, so the agenda item for new business...insure you don't violate the spirit of Sunshine call all eight (8) of you...your counter parts...to talk about the same item...for example...the cleanest would be...you add an agenda item to November or December, because you gotta wait for the next year...or January is really the cleanest...and it would be selection or nomination...of chair and vice chair...in for January of 2026. And someone makes a motion...I move that...so and so be appointed as chair...and you have that discussion and just keep going with the motion...until somebody passes...it would violate the spirit of sunshine if you were to call everyone interim, technically it doesn't violate the sunshine law, but it violate the spirit of it, so I don't recommend it but all you need is a motion...to do so and so is chair and so and so is vice chair...either they pass or no pass... RD: We will do this in January. CF: That would be the cleanest....theoretically we do have the amazing Micah Alameda...who controls our nominations...and he is aware who is going to term out...he's always tracking every board and commission in that regard...finding people who want to serve...sometime it's a harder thing...he would be able to indicate either we are going to have somebody lined up to come in...January or whoever is terming out is going to holdover until the spot are filled...It wouldn't make sense to nominated them to be chairing / vice chair....for a short period of time..so they can holdover in the chair position...until someone else comes in and you can hold the election...in March right?....up to you guys,get choke options....it's really what you guys like do... LT: We'll think about it...[inaudible].... CF: The permitted interactive group is so specific...the requirements are pretty stringent...I don't want you guys to create one...if you don't need it... 37 RD: I think the sunshine law does permits an interactive group...separately for a group meeting...to discuss election of officers... CF: You can, but, I just don't want to make sure you utilize it if you don't need it...if you want to I'll work with whoever wants to kind spearhead those motions...to make sure you understand the requirements...the reporting requirements, the deadlines on how all of that works....couple of different options, but I just don't know if you needed for this purpose....I have never seen a PIG just for nominations, it's more like you want to update your rules...that's a big lift, let's do a PIG for that purpose.... RD: In business essentially what you would do, which we are not doing...try to line up what we can accomplish next year, and how do we build those presentations to accomplish that....and we've kind of going month by month...and the process is also a problem...but that being said...well taken it and we can bring it up in January. CF: I think that's a different issue then just a nomination of chair and vice chair....then what are the priorities of GMAC and what are the projected priorities...the topics for 2026...and at the same time that is something that all districts all 9 representatives would want to chime in on....maybe on next month agenda you should add priorities and goals...for GMAC 2026...topics to be addressed for the year...and everybody can chime in and a lot for the year, this would be for January, February, March, April and I think that everybody that represents a district would want the opportunity well this is important to me and my district and that allows everyone to collaborate rather than an all permitted interactive group....just an idea. LT: Maybe we can hold off on that and next month...if it's that big we can...I think it's important to have a year planned...for all of us and we can make a special meeting about it or something... CF: But it's something you can include...Chair on your agenda everyone is force to start thinking about [inaudible] continue it under old business, old business [inaudible] continue under new business and then to old business and continue to collaborate, discuss and decide, if possible, till the end of the year. It would be a work in progress in other words. RD: Finally under new business....we kind of started this with the hack...and thank the fella who was in West Hawaii....they cut that in the butt...was awesome, essentially...we know other groups have been hacked...and maybe like today...the person on zoom had...can be verified....and also a lot of zooms....you don't have the opportunity, the person handling zoom lets you in, open your mic...right so, but it's a bigger issue... 38 CF: Right...so Mr. Alameda and I and my office...have been discussion last month was the Veteran advisory committee that...had a similar hack...like we did in July...the video... there is one clear way to avoid the video in the future and that is in-person meetings....that is the only way to avoid it....even with hypothetically we require everybody to come in, Hi, I'm Cody and I'm here to testify in person....and I just used a faked name....Jennifer Smith right...and I'm going to testify publicly and I get my three (3) minutes...and boom, I spam everyone....and I used a faked name and nobody is going to know....the difference is I'm not Jennifer...the reality is you switch to in-person...and to accommodate everybody got to drive right...Hilo-Kona-Hilo-Kona so...This month we're in Hilo, next month we're in Kona....that way everybody has to drive every other month...Police commission does it, Fire commission does it...choke boards and commission does it...where they alternate locations...so we accommodate everybody RD: Could you do in person and zoom...and no interaction with the audience? CF: We're going to be allowing the zoom participant, what would be the purpose of allowing the zoom? Because the sunshine...there are different rules depending on how the zoom...the hybrid ... [inaudible] RD: It's essentially allowing the public to witness a public display of a public action.... MA: This is Mike Alameda...the executive assistance to the mayor...it would be easy to livestream an in person meeting...right so it's an in person meeting...we livestream it to YouTube....so people behind the wall can just watch....hold us accountable by just watching...that's actually easy...it's the moment we got to run zoom...and it's an open meeting we have to people in...we cannot say, "are you sure your name is John Doe, we got to verify that.......because here in the county council meeting...which is an open meeting...bound by sunshine...people can walk in, you cannot require them to sign in...you can say, Sir are you here to testify?Yeah, can you please sign in? No, I no like...enjoy thank you for being here...you can go in and sit down...when your time comes and you like stand up and testify on an item...and ask is there anymore testimony, yep...me...come sir, sit down....So, they had no way to pre-screen that person walking in...Essentially we got to do that same thing...on line...so we got to share the zoom link....we got to share the password....you can come in and we can pre-screen you...Aloha sir, what's your name...why are you here...I'm here to testify on item four (4a)...great...hang on...we'll let you know...nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger...boom ...Jeff did great...mahalo Jeff...yeah hate crime...someone can file a police report...right now go to HPD and say that happened in this meeting and we can suggest that. But that goes to the police department they would file that...hate report... 39 RD: Micah,...Chair...moving forward on what has been a long discussion...if we were to agree to go to an in person meetings....whether with a YouTube strain...would we be allowed to go back to into the county council room, where we know historically we have had meetings...that were well attended...back to a time where facilitate people to showing up in person.... MA: So, good question...I think...the county council who runs their reservations for their room, I think they would give us a hard time...just because their reservations are already what they consider almost the capacity, they have a hard time for getting us in...by our request. So I think, I don't know how open they would be getting GMAC back into their schedule...we can ask...we don't run that chamber....We run this conference room...we run the Pueo conference room upstairs and that's all the mayor has access to....to that we have to go through the clerk... RD: What do you control in West Hawaii? MA: We control the conference room where aunty Barbara is right now...Hello aunty Barbara...we have Hale G which is downstairs near the pavilion..., but those are the two options...Hale G which is a bigger room than that...and we have that room that is attached to the mayor's office, in West Hawaii. CF: I have been told...for my police commission and salary commission are the ones I had before...that county clerks are no longer going to be authorizing after hours...of usage of council chambers here in Hilo and Kona, However...when I did the firearm which represents the police...the public meeting on the firearm updates...we used council chambers in both...Kona council chambers after hours...I don't know if it's public meetings based on public publications .... I'm not sure how they are allowing, but that would be the county clerk question, but that also beg the question are you guys going to go back to ... are you trying to go back to night time, I know that you guys first started to talk about back in July when I first joined right verses day time right....kind of make a difference whether we are talking day time hearings or night time hearings, because it requires...facilitations from the county clerk's office...to help turn on the equipment...and so night time meetings are a little more problematic...raise the issue of security ... from some time ago...if you stick with daytime, might be easier, that would be something Micah and I would be working on ...with chair and or Barb too....to ask county clerk office .... If we can use council chambers... pending on the schedules...everybody tries to use it because of the equipment... MA: Everybody wants to use that chambers, everybody does...but we get access to these conference rooms. I will say on the night meetings...the mayor is open with it, he just 40 wants to make sure that...the staff is supporting the night meetings are good...so he was thinking we could start like a hybrid....one month we go evening, one month we go daytime,just to get back in the groove... RD: Maybe we do one month per quarter...if that was something regular...people knew they could show up in person...I think they would take advantage of it... MA: Yeah, we could look at that, right....we can ask the clerk if there is no room monthly can we do a quarter meeting...in there...I don't know...we'll ask... CF: The only way to avoid the scammers right is to switch to in person.... because if the livestream.... RD: How does that come down.... MA: So the charter, the county charter...Section 6— 1 .3 item B right...gives full administrative function of all agencies, departments, boards and commission...under the managing director....So, I would consider these livestream...how the agendas are written...the minutes are written...as an administrative function...which would give the managing director control to say, until we can get a solid solution...down, we going full in person meeting...for the x-amount of time...until we have a solution that works for all.... RD: With a YouTube livestream? MA: Yeah... CF: I don't know if it would be YouTube... MA: With a livestream.... CF: With no testifiers— no public participations.... unless they are here in person... MA: Commissioners won't be able to join remotely like all commissioners would have to come in. CF: The moment we have interact...Hilo-Kona... wherever right...if you doing Hilo and Kona, how are you guys communicating among yourselves? That's going to be the interactive [inoudible].....so it has to be everybody shows up in one place the zoom is only people to watch...remotely from home wherever...but they not participating, they want to testify...to come to wherever you guys are...so it is our notice on the agenda...for sunshine purposes...that's going to matter. So, the moment we gonna split...now we got to have somebody to run both Hilo and Kona, to allow testimony and we gotta...have a remote feature...connect because we not going to know...which [inaudible].... 41 MA: Which is what the county council does that's the best example, they run it...so that's why they require the two spots open...staff there, with the live stream... LT: That's where my ideas are coming from watching the county.... CF: That's why people can testify remotely.... RD: If you would do it on zoom, could you limit...to commissions and presenters? CF: No... MA: No, at that moment it is a remote meeting... RD: And does everybody else come in person? CF: No, the moment we have commissioners and the remote hybrid meetings we have to afford the same opportunity to the public...that's why I'm saying you can go back to in person, then all this is avoided....and then we have the livestream for everybody watch, from home wherever... MA: So I will say this, we are looking at solutions....we are looking at zoom webinar...so this is a zoom meetings...standard zoom meetings...send out the meeting ID the password...everybody has the ability to join in...a zoom webinar, the host has more ability to control...the host controls who is muted...who can see who cannot see...all of that...So, we are looking at that...we are also looking returning to in person...and livestreaming it all...all of the boards and commission...you are all force to go back in person...however we are going to livestream as much means as we can...so, 30 plus boards and commissions...in our county...all don't meet in the same place...as right...some meet here, some meet there...like the board of water they meet...in the base yard by the transfer station...it's a reaI...the network is vast....so try and pull it all together...it's going to take time... RD: One simple thing, you haven't worked in radio...you always had the F button...it was a five (5) second delay...if somebody came in that wasn't appropriate...you hit the button and they never get on the air....because you always delayed five (5)... or ten (10) seconds...but in any regard, I'm sure...smart people can figure out...because if we have to travel to Kona, and West Hawaii guys have to travel to us...there goes our ability to get quorums...gonna be comp rise[inoudible]. CF: I would hope not, I would say...sometimes the attorney has to be the bad person right....theocratically when you signed up to be commissioners...if committed...to the dedication of GMAC...that requires, hypotactically everybody should understand the 42 kuleana of going back and forth if the position requires it or we just never mind and we let people do this because nobody wants to drive...[includible].. RD: We can go into PIG to do work and coming together in public .... For less time... you know once a quarter...and committee work pushes our business forward...and you don't need a quorum for a presentation...I'm just thinking out aloud [includible]...I just know time is valuable, it's all new...[includible]...thanks for working it out...thanks for being here...the person that was able to make this meeting pleasurable without putting salt... MA: You know in this situation here; we were actually lucky that Jeff Kahakua was in the room with aunty Barbara...was fast...other boards and commission they are no more this kind...staff support. Every board and commission is so different...I cannot even sleep at night...it's so kapakahi...Mahalo aunty Barbara for getting Jeff there...to nip that in the butt...but the veterans advisory committee...was going on for minutes...because of the tita who was in there...is a secretary you know...who has been working for the county for 30 years...and zoom is not her proficiency, but she is tasked as secretary to manage this board. So, it was on her not to navigate that issue...so it's not a one fix all at this moment. If every board and commission had someone like Jeff Kahakua...let's move forward with zoom...nip it in the butt, press F button...eight (8) seconds he's gone, carry on...but this is government...the sanctity of government...needs to be protected...if going in person is the price we have to pay...this is government Alameda has the authority to protect this government...and if that has to be done, that maybe the recommendation....however we are working on it and it's not the recommendation...now Mahalo Jeff, we're going continue what we see now...until we don't so...we're working on it guys...I'm sorry this happen...this is embarrassing...you know it's embarrassing...[includible]....I'm going to link up with Jeff...what he did today was good right...in the waiting room, kind of screening people right....that was solid right....that's the way to do it...unfortunately he still got through...I'm going to make sure the boards and commission has that kind of support...we just had today... CF: I just don't know if [inaudible].... you're good, I just don't know what we require, I gotta pull...inaudible...the opinion on it...we can require calling the mayor's office to be like, "Hi, I'm so and so a real person [includible]....and just spam us. We want to make sure that we're careful.... RD: Do we shout to OIP and say listen we have this problem...how are you guys dealing with this? CF: You could no harm in asking...anybody [inaudible]. 43 MA: We want to move forward as a county we like to livestream meetings, have commissioners join from home, wherever they are.... Wherever is convenient, I want that...that's the direction we have to go....but if we can't trust the people in this remote world, then we are going to take some steps to just lock it down...but eventually I want this...I like commissioners joint from the districts from wherever you are...booths on the ground, tell us what you are seeing and what you are hearing....this is powerful yea h...my first step is to try to make this work...try to make this remote system work....stronger, more effective...if no can and we do what gotta....you have my word this is what I want for our county....I want us to move in this direction...because we are Big Island...four thousand twenty-eight square miles...(428,000sq miles)and we are growing every day...so we have to have people joining from where they are. I going to try my best...Mahalo for your patience and sorry that this happened again. LT: Yes sir, thank you very much...thank you to the staff...any last words from any of the commissioners before we end our meeting? If I can summarize just this last section....If we can try to move forward once a quarter in the council chambers that will be amazing...we can start with that...on top of mind keep in person meetings...and then try to get the night time meetings back...for our community because most of our community is at work right now...and taking care of business...nothing else needed to be said... CF: Are you guys switching what you guys are going to do next month or status quo just to clarify. LT: We be doing the same thing[inaudible]. MA: We do the same thing...hopefully Jeff will be there...30 days from now we have a better system...we just got approval to purchase a webinar feature...so I'm going to test it out in the next week and a half....and hopefully I can work with auntie Barb and if that's the way we can go then...move forward with zoom webinar...if not we going to move forward with the same system we have right now.... 7. NEW BUSINESS a. The Commission intends to discuss topics for future GMAC agenda presentations. Chair Turalde. b. The Commission to discuss an official letter to mayor asking to extend commissions terms for number of months meetings were cancelled. Chair Turalde 44 c. Kau Forest Reserve Access, discussion and decision-making as to whether or not to support grant of easement for continued public access to the Kau Forest Reserve crossing the mauka portion of Tax Map Key 9-5-008:001 between Makino Road and Haao Springs, as related to the Naalehu Hill Consolidation and Resubdivision, Application No. PL-SUB-2024-000279. Commissioner Duerr d. U.S. Department of the Interior FY 2026-2030 Strategic Draft for Public Comment, discussion and decision-making to consider GMAC's participation to provide comment. 8. ANNOUNCEMENTS: a. Next Meeting: October 21, 2025, at 9:00 a.m. 25 Aupuni Street, Puna Conference Room, 1501, Hilo, HI 96720 9. ADJOURNMNENT: LT: With nothing else needed to be said...all in favor of ending the meeting right in the Puna conference room at 11:08 am .... say Aye, any oppose...none. Thank you, guys, for this amazing meeting and I appreciate it, and this meeting is done.... Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary 45