2008-09-03 Board of Ethics Minutes Regular Session

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NICHOLSON The whole thing seems minor now that I've heard the different sides of it. And if we find this in violation, I guess I'm thinking of the larger picture —to what extent are we really restricting free dialog with council members. And on the other hand then, I'm thinking, right, it really was not fair, courteous, and impartial, which is why I did support the motion. CHAIR: I really don't think we'd be sitting here today if Councilwoman Naeole said these exact same words in the public hearing for the West Hawai `i Civic Center. I think —I think by doing it outside of the public is when the courteousness becomes jeopardized, and— LUM: - -I think that that's what bothers me, because if it were in the heat of the moment, as it were, in the back and forth, then —when you have a back and forth conversation, you can tamp things down and ramp them up and it goes back and forth, but when it's a message, you have it there and you can't respond, and the person leaving the message can't respond, you know —it doesn't work very well, I think. And I keep thinking ifI listen to a message, and I'd be impressed if my councilmember called me, or councilmember called me —but then ifI heard a message that really kind of gets into you, arrogant and pushy is pretty strong stuff. And I'm sure Mrs. Naeole wishes that that sentence were not in her phone call. Once it's out there, it's out there. So I do like to have the words in it, because I also think the rest of the message is okay. CHAIR: You'd like to have the— L UM: - -I would like to have the original way. I prefer it the way I originally stated it, because I think it limits what we're talking about to very specific kind of language and doesn't really —to me it doesn't really say, well wait, you can't call her and talk about —I don't agree with you and I wish you would do this and that, but I was specific in the motion because I think it's just that part that is difficult. CHAIR: Okay. NICHOLSON: And —I mean, the Code of Ethics doesn't really apply to whether you're in a council meeting or a public hearing or talking to someone individually, so I'm a little concerned that we are —that we're making a distinction that this didn't happen in public, maybe in the heat of a discussion versus in private, because it doesn't really matter. It is a public official acting in their capacity, so- LUM: - -Ms. Edwards should have filed a petition. CHAIR: Well, I don't think we're specifying that in our motion. The reason why I brought it up is —I think the way words get conveyed in certain environments can come off different ways. But- LUM: So you're saying in the public record, as an opinion, that it might be misinterpreted? 13