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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RDC 2011-11-10.tif2011 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 11th Session Thursday, November 10, 2011 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 CALL TO ORDER: CHR. SIRACUSA: Good morning, this is the eleventh session of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission. Today is Thursday, November 10, 2011. It is 10:00 a.m. and I am calling the meeting to order. ATTENDANCE: Present: Mr. Joseph Carvalho, Commissioner Mr. Patrick Kahawaiola`a, Commissioner Mr. Craig `Bo" Kahui, Commissioner (10:30 a.m. Kona) Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Commissioner Mr. Jeffrey Melrose, Commissioner Mr. Mike Middlesworth, Commissioner Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Ms. Valerie Poindexter, Commissioner Ms. Linda Ugalde, Commissioner Absent: None Also Present: Kyle Chang, Deputy Corporation Counsel Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator Steve "Kawena" Lopez, Deputy County Clerk Cori Saiki, Elections Assistant Shyla Ayau, Senior Elections Clerk Nora Avenue, Administrative Assistant to County Clerk John Henricks, Legislative Specialist Maile David, Legislative Specialist in Kona Manu Hanano, Council Aide in Waimea Lali Robinson, Deputy Executive Assistant to Council Chair Barbara Lively, Legislative Assistant in Pahoa Karen Eoff, Secretary STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS CHR. SIRACUSA: Testimony will be taken only on items on the agenda and will be limited to three minutes per item. So, the first person to sign up is Zendo Kern representing himself. Good morning Zendo. (At this time Zendo Kern came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. KERN: Good morning; and I will be fast. I almost feel that this testimony was written for the previous meeting, but I have to say it. Aloha, my name is Zendo Kern, I was born and raised here on the island. I spent most of my life here in Puna, as you all know. I, as much as anyone else, believe that all of Puna should be in both Council Districts. I hope that the population deviation of the two Puna districts will be maxed out, or even exceeded; exceed the deviations to keep Puna whole; which means keeping both Volcano and Kea`au in Puna. Unfortunately, I don't think that will be possible due to the Charter and Ordinance 11 -29. But, the bottom line is that the Puna district will be better off than it was over the past ten years, so we are going to work on that. I am going to keep this short. This message goes out to everybody; everybody that is listening. Now, I'm going to stand on my soap box of optimism and hope for this wonderful island. I speak to everyone in this room and everyone listening. We need to stop with this discourse and divide that keeps splitting our unity as an island. We need to remember that we are all in the same island; we need to learn how to get along, and we need to learn to compromise. What started out as residents trying to keep their communities together and strong, is turning into greater division and separation of our island as a whole. This will not work for us in the long run. Unfortunately, in old political structure and old political agenda of many years ago, that in my mind no longer exists in the same way, is the basis of much of this conversation that is diluting our unity as an island. We need to remember that we are all on the same island and that the only way for us to become sustainable will be for the people of this island to work together. This infighting is not, and will not, serve the people and general welfare of this island. I feel that we are blessed that we live on such a diverse island, both socially and environmentally. We should be fostering stronger relationships, respect and understanding of our neighboring communities. Without compromise and effective communication, we will all lose, because we will be divided on an island that is as diverse and beautiful as it gets, at a time when positive change and optimism are essential. Let us rise to the challenge and work together to find peace of mind that we are living in a new political era and it is up to us to set the new precedence of island politics for our future generations. I will close with a quote from Henry Ford; "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you are right." I'll repeat that. "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you are right." Mahalo. 2 CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Zendo. Thank you for starting us off on the high road. Our next testifier is Alita Warner, who lives in Hawaiian Acres; and she is representing herself. ALITA WARNER (At this time Alita Warner came forward via videoconference from Kona to address members of the Commission.) MS. WARNER: Good morning Commissioners. I also want to echo Zendo's remarks. I feel like you guys have done a tremendous job. You have had to put up with a whole lot of people coming in and whining, screaming and - - -And I really appreciate the effort and time and energy that you have put in and the civility that you all have brought to the process. I just have a comment about the division in the Puna districts between Volcano being included, or Kea`au being included. I wrote my statement down so I can just zip through it quickly and be done. As a Hawaiian Acres resident, I am sympathetic to Volcano wanting to be included in Puna during the current redistricting process. I am at the far end of my current district, District 6, and I have not even seen my Council representative, since she was elected to office; although I supported her. So I understand the feeling of isolation. However, I feel it is important for Kea`au to be part of the Puna district. The Commission has looked at many overlays in your efforts to define regions; some considered are subdivisions, school district boundaries, shopping and service patterns, and community development plans. In my mind, Kea` au is the gateway to Puna. It is also the central meeting point for Puna residents from Volcano and Kalapana, due to the intersections of Highway 130 and Highway 11. All, if not most, of the CDP Action Plan Committee meetings have all been held in Kea`au. It is central to the district. It has been stated that Kea`au has more in common with Hilo. That is true; Kea`au has many more infrastructure improvements, water, sewage, roadways, and Shipman Industrial Park, than most of the Puna district. It is for these reasons that Kea`au will develop at a faster rate. When I have heard rumors of major retailers coming into the east side of the island, the location always mentioned is Kea` au. If Community Development Plans are a factor in how new zoning districts are decided, Kea`au should be part of the Puna district so there is no disconnect between representation and Puna population. Kea` au may be the furthest that Puna residents will go for services in the not too distant future. The next ten years are critical. To not have Puna representation in the Puna area that is most likely to develop over the next ten years seems like a serious disconnect. For this reason, I support Kea`au being included in the Puna district. Thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you very much. Do we have a testifier in Waimea? MS. HANANO: Yes, good morning and thank you Madam Chair. We actually have eleven testifiers here this morning. My first testifier here this morning is Mike Price, and he is here representing himself. He is speaking in support of Plan _B and opposing Plan _A and commenting. 3 MIKE PRICE (At this time Mike Price came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MR. PRICE: I would like to begin by thanking the Commission; after the last meeting, for their efforts in looking at Plan B, which, you know, a lot of people in this area feel is the fairest approach. Another item: I think it is very important to keep Waikoloa, Waimea, Puako in District 9, keep Hamakua as a separate district. The reasoning behind that is: (1) you know the old ahupua`a system was from the mountain top to the ocean; for myself, I live and work in Waikoloa Village, but I use the beaches and I use the mountains. Our water supply comes off of Mauna Kea, and there's lots of users on the way down the mountain. And I want a representative in our area that understands that. We also have one hospital that most people use. I just came from a dentist office in Waimea. The communities are tied together. Kawaihae Harbor, which will develop in the future is an economic engine in the area; all of this ties together nicely in a community development program. I think it would be a travesty to separate it out at this point. I mean, maybe ten years down the road, fifteen years down the road, population growth will change this picture, but currently, after all the effort that went into the CDP, I think it is important to leave South Koahala and North Kohala as they are; maintain Hamakua, make it fair for Puna, correct the travesty of the past. But I think Plan _B does the best job of this. If you need to tweak it a little bit, so be it. But I think it is very important to pick a plan that is fair to everybody on the island. I try to look beyond my own district. I serve on a county committee and a state committee that deals with transportation issues. I think a lot of people in this discourse and testimony have more or less spoke on their district, but have also stated that they also see this as one island. I think this is good, and I think that the CDP approach and process has really developed this, and I think we need to keep moving on it, but we need to respect these very distinct districts. I thank you, and I wish you the best, and I challenge you to move from politics to fairness; and I think you have. I appreciate it. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you very much. I thank you for your good wishes. Our next testifier -- -Let's take someone else in Waimea as long as we are there. MS. HANANO: Thank you, Madam Chairman, our next testifier is Mr. Bob Green and he is also representing himself and he is making comments. BOB GREEN (At this time Bob Green came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MR. GREEN: Again, thank you very much for listening to me. I talked to you in Waimea and then again in Hilo, so you know me, you know my wishes, you know my background. The one concern that I have right now is, I'm looking at the maps, I'm looking at Plan _A and Plan B; but the one that I really like, with some exceptions, is Plan _B alternate 2. So, when people are talking to you, it is very difficult to see which plan they are talking about. 10 I am talking about Plan _B alternate 2. My concern there is two fold. One is with Hamakua; I am a traditionalist and an historian, and I feel that Hamakua needs to expand more to the mountains where you have moved it to the sea. The second thing is with Puna; the young lady mentioned the fact that Kea`au is the center of Puna. Well, I grew up in Pahoa, in Mountain View, and I think she is absolutely right. I think Pahoa is the center of one portion of Puna, and Kea`au is another. When you separate Kea` au out, I think you are dividing the common interests of a homogeneous grouping. I would like to thank you for your wonderful work, I think the plans get better and better and better, and I am hoping to see you again at the final meeting in which time we can see where we are going. Thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Let's go back to Hilo and call Rich Warshauer. RICK WARSHAUER (At this time Rick Warshauer came forward via to address members of the Commission.) MR. WARSHAUER: Good morning, I really appreciate the job you folks have been doing. I am really glad to see so much community input, albeit in a lot of different forms. I really feel that no matter what the outcome, this is going to be the best ever redistricting, because there has been a lot more consideration of different neighborhoods, different districts' concerns. I realize that you have had to listen to a lot of hysterical blogs, and weekly whims, and people who come misinformed, and there is so much confusion in the different plans, I feel misinformed and not up to date, currently. So, the one thing I am going to address is the position of Volcano versus Kea`au in the plan. The district configuration for Puna that showed Volcano earlier, had a peripheral Puna and a more central core Puna as two separate districts, and Volcano fit quite nicely in that peripheral Puna. Kea`au seems, these days, to be a suburb of Hilo, and I really don't feel that bad about it being included in Hilo because I know the numbers have to balance. But everybody feels that about their own area, so whatever happens, happens. I do want to echo the thoughts of the first speaker; I thought he did a good job, just as you folks are doing. So thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you very much Rick. We now go to Pahoa. MS. LIVELY: Good morning, thank you Chair. We have Toby Hazel. She is going to be commenting on redistricting plans. TOBY HAZEL (At this time Toby Hazel came forward via videoconference from Pahoa to address members of the Commission.) MS. HAZEL: Hi, good morning Chair, and all the other people who have worked so hard on this. I'm not sure I understand all the details, but yes, indeed, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. All these parts, I'm quoting now from the previous speaker, peripheral Puna. Okay, we really do need to keep our communities intact, and I hate to lose either Volcano or Kea`au. Of course, I go through Kea`au more often, and stop there 5 and shop. It's supposed to be the hub for transportation. Someday, I hope to be able to take the bus and go to Kea`au and actually catch a bus and go to Volcano, which I like to do sometimes because there are a lot of neat things that happen up there. I do consider it, as far as the ahapua`a, to be connected with us. I don't really understand all of these line changes and why Hawaii is doing it. I was back in New York for several months, and I am originally from Dutchess County. Since the origination of New York, those lines have not changed very much. Dutchess County has been Dutchess County for my entire lifetime, and even though the population really boomed there and changed when IBM came in, they never changed those districts. Why is that? I don't quite understand the need to do this, and to separate people. I'll just leave it with that; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. One more little note; I need to go up to the North Kohala Hospital, but now, the new rule is, you can't use the Elderly Transportation to go more than 50 miles. That, to me, just doesn't make sense. We have to be able to reach our resources, and have that easily done. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Our next testifier in Hilo is Gregory Smith, representing himself. GREGORY SMITH (At this time Gregory Smith came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. SMITH: Good morning, and aloha. I must start off commending all of you for the great job that you have done so far. I have been involved, this is the third one of these little exercises I been through, and by far, you guys are the best that I have seen. At least you are trying your best to work in a spirit of cooperation and for what is best for the island. I thank you for that. But, again, this process is messy, and back to the bare knuckles of it. I, for one, coming out of Puna, I testified before that I would rather give away Volcano, if anything, because I was rather prejudiced against the treatment that we had of the Hilo - centricness over the past 30 years. Looking at the good work that you have done so far, I would actually have to retract at least one part of my thinking on that and try to get around my prejudices. First I stepped into the Council over 23 years ago with a request to repair the Poho`iki/Pahoa Road in which the County refused because, (guess what ?) they wanted to spend the money here in Hilo. As fishermen we were dragging some 12 million dollars worth of fish out of that landing at the time. We actually had to make a detour of 4.6 miles around Kapoho Road, so we wouldn't break the axles of our trucks and our trailers. So, but looking at the good work that you folks have done, I concede that maybe we should max out both of the Puna districts, and possibly give our overage of part of the neighborhoods in Kea`au who are traditionally both in work and socially, are a little more Hilo- centric, I suppose. But, I mean this is a hard decision for me, because of my past experiences and my prejudices I truly have. On the other hand, I think RenCs plan should be seriously looked at, RS3, with that in mind and tweaking it. But you folks have done very, very well, and at least we are not seeing the blatant gerrymandering that we saw in the last two processes. Thank you so much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Joyce Folena, and then we will go back to Waimea. 0 JOYCE FOLENA (At this time Joyce Folena came forward to address members of the Commission.) CHR. SIRACUSA: Joyce, you filled out two slips, but you are only one person. MS. FOLENA: Yes, I didn't know if I was supposed to split the two plans into two - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: One person, one testimony; one person, one vote. MS. FOLENA: I have to thank Rene Siracusa, the Chairwoman of this Redistricting Commission for her discipline. It is not easy to corral nine people, including yourself. I also thank her for being our Puna representative; I have deep respect for this woman. I fully support Plan_RS3, because it divides the two Puna districts into mauka and makai, which is traditionally the most acceptable way to divide these districts because people from way, way back are saying Puna makai, Puna mauka, and they feel it, and they work it, and they live it. There are different needs, activities, cultural activities, business activities, survival activities. They are different in the mountainous or hill regions as compared to the sea and near sea regions. At no time will I ever, ever tolerate Hilo District 3, or District 2 coming into my Puna geographical area. For these reasons, I commend Rene Siracusa for Plan RS3; RS meaning Rene Siracusa. I also thank everyone for their work, it isn't easy. Everyone wants what they want, everyone has to give; everyone has to take. I am very, very grateful --I have to put this in - -that the teleconferencing came back to Pahoa; because we were told yesterday it was blown out by the storm. It was quite a storm. Thank you one and all. CHR. SIRACUSA: I just wanted to say that Plan _RS3 is not on the table because it had other problems, but we are trying to figure out how to put that configuration, that mauka /makai configuration into the draft plan that we are working on. We will be trying to do that today, if at all possible. MS. FOLENA: You just alerted me to something I had not said. Given the time constraints that we all have, including today; this meeting can't go on until 10 o'clock at night. Because Plan _A and Plan _B have been discussed and have been tossed around with the expert help of Shyla, I request that right now, Rene Siracusa's plan takes precedence in the discussion. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. We have a testifier in Kona, Pete Hoffmann. PETE HOFFMANN (At this time Pete Hoffmann came forward via videoconference from Kona to address members of the Commission.) MR. HOFFMANN: Good morning Rene and members of the Commission, thank you very much for listening to me again. Believe it or not, Commission members, you are almost in the home stretch of this long process. As I have indicated before, and I will do it again, as many times as I see each and every one of you, thank you for the effort that you have put 7 into this so far. You don't need to hear the same thing that I had indicated before, but I would just like to remind you as you push on with the plans that are before the Commission, that the concepts that we talked about before, I think are still important. We look at the idea of what is best for the most number of people in any part of our island. We don't solve a problem, as I see it, by trying to resolve a small issue, and then put a larger community; or a larger portion of the community at risk. Clearly, it has to be whatever is best for the most people. And I realize that that isn't an easy job, but I do salute the efforts that the Commission has taken up to this time. I also indicated in my last testimony, and I want to reiterate it again; there is an idea of a perception on the part of the general residents of this community, this council, this administration; regardless of how we look at it, the credibility that we have in this political process, and redistricting is a political process, regardless of how we try to resolve the issues that are before us. The perception remains in the community that we need to do a better job of making sure that the plans that we put forward are fair; but really represent the best interests of most people on our island. It is our responsibilities either as an elected official, or as an appointed official, to make certain that those perceptions, if they do exist in the community, are at least eliminated or reduced to the best degree possible. I recognize that can't be done in each and every instance, but I do salute the efforts that many members, both in the community as well as on the Commission, have put forward that reduce the perception that there is some type of a process on going that continues, in some way shape or form, to provide redistricting on the basis of the traditional way that it has been done over the past ten, twenty, or thirty years. I ask that you remember, Commissioners, that whatever we do as elected officials or appointed officials, to reduce that perception of unfairness, to reduce the perception that politics plays a most key point in these particular issues. Whatever we can do to eliminate or reduce that, I think is most important for each and every one of us as we look ahead. Please remember, the credibility that we have in County government begins with you for the next ten years. You provide the redistricting efforts, the framework, for how politics will be played out in the County over the next ten years. I recommend that we do whatever is possible to make certain that we have a solid foundation that addresses the best interests of the people of this island in whatever way we can. Reduce that perception, come up with a plan that is at least as fair as you possibly can, and you will be doing not only a great service, as far as the administration is concerned, but for all residents of this island as we move forward. Thank you again for the time and effort and I do appreciate, personally, individually, and on behalf of the residents and constituents in the ninth district, I absolutely give you my best wishes. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Okay, let the record show that Commissioner Kahui arrived at the Kona location at 10:30 a.m. Greetings, Bo. Let's take someone from Waimea. MS. HANANO: Thank you Madam Chair, the next person to testify here is Stephanie Stearns, and she is representing the Waikoloa Senior Center, and she is speaking in support of Plan B, opposing Plan A, and commenting. 0 STEPHANIE STEARNS (At this time Stephanie Stearns came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MS. STEARNS: Good morning, and thank you for your time. I am President of the Waikoloa Senior Center, and a number of the members may well be emailing or faxing you their concerns about Plan _A and their support of Plan _B. Insofar as Plan _B keeps Waikoloa with our South Kohala neighbor, Waimea, which we share many similarities as far as community goes, and we would really like to continue to have one representative to represent our concerns and needs. We feel strongly that by moving us, if you were to move us, into the North Kona district, that those similarities of representation would dissipate. So, whether it is Plan B, or some tweaking of it, my main concern is that communities with like needs and interests remain together; whether it is here or Hamakua, or Puna. I thank you for all your hard work and I look forward to the plan you come up with. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Waimea, how many more testifiers do you have over there? MS. HANANO: We have approximately eight more. CHR. SIRACUSA: You have eight, and we have five more over here, so that is thirteen more testifiers, and one more in Kona. I would ask you folks to please try and get your thoughts across succinctly, so that we can get to work on these maps and not be here `till eleven o'clock at night. Thank you, your kokua would be very much appreciated. I'm not trying to stifle anybody, just asking you to focus in your testimony. Let's have somebody from Kona then. MR. KAHUL Good morning. We have one testifier at this moment; Jennifer Leinhart Tsuji. JENNIFER LEINHART TSUJI (At this time Jennifer Leinhart Tsuji came forward via videoconference from Kona to address members of the Commission.) MS. LEINHART TSUJI: My name is Jennifer Leinhart Tsuji. I had the opportunity and pleasure of testifying in the beginning when there was discussion of splitting Waikoloa, and I think there was a clear, concise opinion from the Waikoloa community, as well as from other people in our district, saying that was an unwelcome and unwanted measure of action. Then I also had the pleasure of testifying in Hilo at your last meeting. I was not able to stick around, but it is my understanding that Plan _40 has been turned into now Plan _B. I would like to continue my testimony in stating that Waikoloa has quite a few unique issues that need to be addressed. A fear that I have of Waikoloa being partnered with Kona rather than with Waimea is that a lot of the issues that we deal with are not going to be recognized due to our smaller population compared to the population level in Kona. We have unique issues such as our donkeys and our side blocks and our over 9 population in the school system. We are heading towards 1,000 strong at Waikoloa Elementary. I understand that there is a lot of political pull and shove that you are hearing in various different testimonies that you have, but I am just here today to say that I beg you and urge you to please vote for Plan—B, recognizing the growth and the development that is occurring in Waikoloa. It is no longer that peaceful Caucasian retirement that everyone thought it was; we have an enormous amount of young families there that are dedicated and committed to watching the Big Island grow all together, and I think that it is necessary that our voices are heard. The only way this is going to happen is if Plan_B is enacted, and we have been placed with the Waimea community. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. We come back to Hilo now, Pete Altomare, representing himself. PETE ALTOMARE (At this time Pete Altomare came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. ALTOMARE: Good morning to the Commission. I appreciate your time and efforts over the last few months. I will be, as the Chair suggests, brief and succinct. Kea`au belongs in Puna. It is a key to Puna, it is a population center in Puna; it will be the center of development in Puna for many years to come. It belongs as a part of Puna, providing benefits for Puna. We had unfortunate incidents back in August of 2011 regarding the Puna Community Development Plan. I don't want to see that repeated; I want Puna residents and representation within Puna. If a choice has to be made between Volcano and Kea`au, I would very strongly support the inclusion of Kea`au within Puna. I think that it is absolutely essential for the integrity of Puna economically, geographically, politically. That is how I look at it. I still have a bitter taste in my mouth as I just said, about what happened in August of 2010, at a public meeting, about the Puna Community Development Plan. It was very interesting to see the participants in that meeting, and what came out of it, and I don't want to repeat that. I want to see Puna as an integral, clean district, with its interests cleanly and strongly represented by two people. That is about it, and hopefully I have left a lot out, but I only got three minutes, and I'll let it go at that. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. I can understand if the other commissioners don't understand what meeting you are alluding to, but I don't even know what meeting you are alluding to. Later; it's probably not pertinent. Let's go to Waimea. MS. HANANO: Thank you. My next testifier is Harlan Kroll, and he is representing himself, and he is speaking in support of Plan B, opposing Plan A, and commenting. HARLAN KROLL (At this time Harlan Kroll came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MR. KROLL: Good morning, I will make my comments brief. I have two concerns with moving Waikoloa Village in with North Kona. I believe it should stay with the ninth district, or South Kohala, because our interests, especially with Waimea, are much more 10 commonly served than with Kona. The other concern I have is with the current CDP. If we are moved to North Kona, what would happen with the current CDP? That took a lot of time and effort to put together, and that process would probably have to start all over again. That is all that I have, and thank you for time you have given me. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Let's take someone else from Waimea please. MS. HANANO: My next testifier is Bette Green. She is representing herself, she is supporting Plan B, opposing Plan A, and commenting. BETTE GREEN (At this time Betty Green came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MS. GREEN: Good morning, it is nice to see you all again. I am still very impressed with the amount of tweaking that you have managed to do from the volumes of plans you had to begin with. You are getting very close, in my opinion. It would be Plan _B with a little additional tweaking; Waikoloa definitely has more ties with Waimea than it does with North Kona, and would like very much to stay in District 9. Again, thank you for your hard work. Mahalo. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Richard Bidleman. RICHARD BIDLEMAN (At this time Richard Bidleman came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. BIDLEMAN: Good morning. You are down to the last race here I think. As you all are aware, myself and some other people, along with your efforts, have spent countless hours manipulating the mapping software. I can certainly appreciate all the effort that has gone into it. What I am hearing today, is that people are in favor of this plan or that plan. What I want to say to you folks today is, and it was actually stated by your Chairman in a previous meeting, no matter what plan that you folks arrive at, it has got to be a compromise. You can't keep everybody happy. I hope that those people who are testifying in favor of this plan or that plan, fully understand that the task that you have ahead of you to compromise. I honestly believe that if you truly develop a compromise, nobody is going to be happy about it. We are all going to have to make some sacrifice here. So this testimony about this plan or that plan, I don't think it serves the best interest of this committee. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Richard. Let's go to Waimea now; we have more testifiers over there so I want to give them more chances. MS. HANANO: My next testifier is Sheldon Meier. He is representing himself, and he is supporting Plan B, opposing Plan _A and commenting. 11 SHELDON MEIER (At this time Sheldon Meier came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MR. MEIER: Good morning. I was listening to everybody, so I really don't have anything new to say except that with the census in 2010, and now I'm thinking of the children in 2020, when they look back; and our kids right now, there are a lot of kids in Waik6loa Village, where I live. A lot of kids are bussed up to Waimea, and the Hawaii Preparatory Academy; I've done a little work with them. So, I am just thinking of the future in 2020, I want them to know that most of us up here are in favor of Plan B, with a little modification to it. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's take one more in Waimea. MS. HANANO: Madam Chair, the next testifier here is Karen Clarkson. She is representing herself, supporting Plan B, opposing Plan A, and commenting. KAREN CLARKSON (At this time Karen Clarkson came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MS. CLARKSON: Thank you, Commissioners, for your hard work and I'm here again to ask you not to consider Plan _A with its division of Hamakua. We are still in the process of working on our CDP, and we have put a lot of effort into that already and to take Honoka`a out of having a council member of that area represent that area, just is not fair. The Council ultimately is the one that upholds the CDP, and if our CDP doesn't reflect our council representation, it could be disastrous to the community. I know Plan _B has been revised and is still in the process of revision, and I believe there are a number of community groups that are working on this and I think that is a great opportunity for you to look at good input from people who are sitting down and really studying this matter and I hope you will really take those into consideration and consider their recommendations. Thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, and we have been listening and considering and taking into consideration all the testimony we have received around the island. Our next testifier in Hilo is Patrice MacDonald. PATRICE MACDONALD (At this Patrice Macdonald came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. MACDONALD: I apologize for getting here late. We, in upper Puna are presently still in District 3 and District 6. From what we have seen, we would prefer Plan B, which does include all of Highway 11, and gives us some of our old Puna back. This is kind of a repeat of our last redistricting, which has a lot in common with our CDP. We spent millions of dollars on our CDP plan, and we were pretty much deleted. We prefer Plan B, I don't know which one is Rene Siracusa's because they don't come through with any 12 name on them. On Plan B, if it took the extra thousand people from District 3 that are closer to Hilo and put them in District 5, as is written on the map, we would prefer this. Don't forget, this is about commonality of people in districts. We would like to keep rural Puna, upper Puna, as it is. Thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's go back to Waimea. How many more do we have? MS. HANANO: Four more total. Our next testifier here is Bill Simonsma. He is representing himself, and he will be speaking in support of Plan—B. BIIL SIMONSMA (At this time Phil Simonsma came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MR. SIMONSMA: Aloha Commission members. I support Plan _B so that we remain part of District 9, and along with the CDP and South Kohala Traffic Committee and what is cohesive. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Let's take one more from Waimea. MS. HANANO: Madam Chair, my next testifier here is Gail Jackson, and she is also representing herself and also speaking in support of Plan—B. GAIL JACKSON (At this time Gail Jackson came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MS. JACKSON: Aloha Commissioners. I was a member of the Waikoloa Community Development Plan focus group. I strongly support Plan B. I think it provides the fairest representation of all our citizens on this island. Waikoloa needs to stay in District 9, and Hamakua should not be split. More than 1,200 people in Waimea, Waikola, Puako, and Kawaihae . contributed to our South Kohala CDP process. We do have the strongest CDP, I think. Please respect both common interests and that effort and mahalo for all your hard work because I really understand you have been working hard. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. We are coming back to Hilo now, and J William Sanborn, who came here from Kamuela. I don't know why you didn't attend from up there, but you are certainly welcome in Hilo. J WILLIAM SANBORN (At this time J. William Sanborn came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. SANBORN: Madam Chair and Commissioners, aloha. My name is J William Bill Sanborn, and I am from Waimea. I am here to just give a little perspective that might be a little different. That is I would like to celebrate how many of these communities have come out here to talk and advocate for themselves. Waimea has probably been a little less 13 noisy as some of the other outlying areas, but I would like to let you know that from a standpoint from myself, I lived in Lakeland for ten years on the preceding ten years when we were part of Waimea. I then moved into town, so I stayed in District 9, and I've been able to observe over the last ten years what a split in a community has done. As the immediate past President of the Waimea Community Association, I am going to be pretty frank about this, and I don't mean any disrespect. I can only remember once when the District 1 council member came up to meetings in Waimea, or sent a representative. That means that from White Road, out to Lakeland, pretty much not a lot of support. I can tell you that when I was in Lakeland, I lived there for thirteen years, our issues were all Waimea- centric, they weren't Hamakua- centric at all. In fact, if you take the geography of Waikoloa and Hamakua, they are about 20 miles away from us, give or take cattle, turkeys and goats. I have presented my full testimony, so I will keep it brief here. I want to let you know that I would prefer to see communities stick together regardless of what district we end up in. I would love for Waimea to be like Kohala and Hawi. There is one way in and one way out; you are not a road stop on the way. So really what happens is you know exactly what your community is and what your boundaries are. Interestingly enough, Puako and Waikoloa align themselves with Waimea, but we have been split for ten years, and I haven't seen any valid testimony from the Council people from either side advocating for Waimea as the mother ship to actually be whole. Thank you very much for the work that you do. Aloha. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's go back to Waimea. MR. KAHUL Madam Chairman, I just wanted to notice you that we have another testifier. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Waimea. MS. HANANO: Thank you. Our testifier here is Jo Kim. She is representing herself. She is also speaking in support of Plan B, opposing Plan _A and commenting along with the registration, I am submitting five sheets of petitions of those also in support of Plan—B. JO KIM (At this time Jo Kim came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MS. KIM: Good morning Commissioners. I am Jo Kim. I reside in Pauilo, rural Hamakua. There are a lot of people who would like to be here today to testify in support of keeping the Hamakua region as a single council district; but they were not able to come. They have signed a petition and I have given it to the Clerk here to present to you. We would like to keep the Hamakua region together. It is very important that rural Hamakua speak with one voice; that we not be enclosed with another district that may not have the same considerations. I don't know the variations of the plans that are being proposed, but the plan that keeps the Hamakua district together, from North Hilo going up through I 14 believe past Waipio, up to Waimanu, or maybe the valley in Hawi, should be kept together as one voting block. Thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Let's go to Kona. MR. KAHUL Madam Chair, and Commissioners, our next testifier here, and by the way we actually have two, but our next testifier is Brenda Ford. CHR. SIRACUSA: Go ahead Brenda. Good morning. (At this time Brenda Ford came forward via videoconference from Kona to address members of the Commission.) MS. FORD: Good morning. Thank your so much for allowing me to speak. I wanted to first thank the Commissioners for the hard work they are doing. It appears to me that all of the Commissioners are doing their very best to create a legal plan; and that is our absolute goal, is to have a plan that is legal, and that will stand up in court. I know that there are communities that want to be in location X with one district, rather than location Y. We all understand the reasons that people feel that they would like to stay as a voting block with their communities of preference. We all understand, as Commissioners and Council members, that it will not be possible to do that for every single community. So, I know you face a very daunting task; a lot of rocks will get thrown, and that is unfortunate, because I have to say, that this Commission, compared to the last one, is like day and night. So, I commend you for the good work that you are doing and I hope that you will continue to do the job that you were put there to do, and to make the decisions that will harm the least people, and benefit the most people. Without any plan being perfect, you are still capable of doing that. Please don't make any attempts to do anything very bizarre at the last minute. Please continue to do the good work that you have been doing. You are a reflection of each of our communities. You each represent your entire district, not just one section of your district. I know that you all understand that, and I know that you have a very tough job, and very difficult decisions to make. But, we need to make sure that the most people are benefited without subjecting anybody to being placed in a district where their vote won't count. Specifically, I would like to say that the southern end of the island is going to be having the worst time because they are so sparsely populated from including Volcano all the way through Ka`u, up to South Kona, and even the mauka areas of South Kona; they are so sparsely populated, that no one can really claim one district in those areas. I hope that everyone that is testifying will consider that those four very distinct areas are probably going to wind up in one district; and we are just going to have to deal with it. We are going to have to do the very best we can to serve those districts, but it is necessary because of the populations, to do something like that. 15 I support keeping Hamakua together, I think that is very important. I am really glad and I really commend you for getting Puna two complete council districts inside of Puna. You are doing a fine job, don't stop now. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Brenda. We have another testifier in Kona, so let's take that person. MR. KAHUL Thank you. We have our last testifier here, Cheryl King. CHERYL KING (At this time Cheryl King came forward via videoconference from Kona to address members of the Commission.) MS. KING: Good morning Commissioners. I believe Plan _B offers the best chance for the development of a fair and equitable plan for the island. Because of the deadlines that have been imposed on the Commission, I hope that you will continue to focus on Plan _B today as you try to incorporate the fixes that were assigned to the Commissioners last week as homework. If that is done, I think you will have an excellent chance of having a good plan at the end of the day to present to the island. I too, say thank you for all your effort, I know it has been a long haul. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Cheryl. Now we come back to Hilo. Stephanie Bath. STEPHANIE BATH (At this time Stephanie Bath came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. BATH: Aloha everybody. It is so reassuring this time around with the open and transparent Redistricting Commission that you are. Thank you so much; what a difference. It is exciting to entertain the idea of having two districts within Puna that encompass completely Puna and that are represented by people that live in Puna. I think that over the 30 some odd years that many of us have been here, we have seen a lot of changes to the district. We didn't have stop lights there in the old days; there were a lot of different things. So I am excited about that idea of having two complete districts in Puna. I do have concerns about the Southern part of the island. Pahala is different form Hawaiian Ocean View Estates. I don't know how to get around that one. Thank you. I would like to make one suggestion, even though it is at the end of the process. There are a lot of people that live on this island that don't have internet access; especially in Puna. To navigate the site and the maps, it is hard for me because the features, the streets are not seen. A lot of us go by streets, not hypothetical lines and colors. So, if you could generate some kind of a real map, or some sort of a zoom thing that has features, I think it would be helpful for those that do have computers and area trying to work with what we have. I know it is late in the process, but that would be a final suggestion; have something in libraries or something. Thank you very much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Stephanie, and for your information, we have nothing to do with the development of the software. 16 MR. MELROSE: One comment, Stephanie. There is a feature in the software that gives you six or seven different base map alternatives including areas that have streets and aerials and a whole range of options. It is in the software, you just have to change the base map. CHR. SIRACUSA: And if you stay, once we start working on the maps, you will see Shyla working on them, you will see how that works. Waimea, do you have two testifiers left? MS. HANANO: Actually, this is my last testifier. George Robertson; he is representing the Puako Community Association, and he will be speaking in support of Plan—B. GEORGE ROBERTSON (At this time George Robertson came forward via videoconference from Waimea to address members of the Commission.) MR. ROBERTSON: Hi folks. You have seen me a number of times. I just want to acknowledge the good work you are doing and particularly the fact that you have left Puako alone for the time being, and please don't tweak us out of where we are. We like Plan B, and Plan _A because we are kept intact with District 9 and we want to stay that way. I just wanted to also acknowledge Margaret Wille, she has done a lot of work on the plans. But she almost gave me a heart attack last week when she said she would be willing to consider splitting Puako down the middle, which freaked me out. So I just want to tell you do not think about that, please. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Is there any one in any of the locations who is now moved to come up and testify, who hasn't done so already? Okay, in that case, that is the end of Statements from the Public. It is now 11:00 a.m. So let's do Approval of the Minutes; that is the next agenda item. APPROVAL OF MINUTES CHR. SIRACUSA: I had gone through the draft of this and just corrected typos. There was nothing really substantive that I noted. Mr. Kahui moved to approve the minutes of the November 3, 2011 meeting of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. 17 RECESS: At 11:00 a.m. the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 11:20 a.m. COMMUNICATIONS COMM. 50: SUPPORT STAFF FOR 2011 REDISTRICTING COMMISSION From County Clerk, Jamae K. K. Kawauchi, dated November 3, 2011, disclosing that Commission Secretary, Karen Eoff, who formerly worked for Council Chair, Dominic Yagong, now works for Council Vice - Chair, K. Angel Pilago as the District 8 Legislative Assistant. The Secretary is to continue to serve as support staff for the 2011 Redistricting Commission. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do I have a motion to close file? Mr. Melrose moved to close file on COMM. 50. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde. CHR. SIRACUSA: It has been moved and seconded to close file, is there any discussion? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Congratulations, Karen. MR. MELROSE: If it's necessary for us to have this notice, that's fine, but Karen is excellent, and we are so glad to have her with us. CHR. SIRACUSA: Totally; she has gone above and beyond and so has the rest of the staff, too. This is on here for Jamae's comfort zone. The motion to close file on COMM. 50 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. IN ORDER OF THE DAY COMM. 51: REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF REDISTRICTING PLANSIMAPS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 3, 2011, requesting the Commission's review and discussion of Redistricting Plans /Maps, and continue to work on the Commission's "Draft Plan." CHR. SIRACUSA: Do I have a motion to close file? Mr. Kahui moved to close file on COMM. 51. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho. CHR. SIRACUSA: Discussion, Jeff. MR. MELROSE: I would just like to call our Corporation Counsel up and ask a question so the Commission knows what our target is here. KYLE CHANG (At this time Kyle Chang, Deputy Corporation Counsel, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. MELROSE: What I am interested in is at the end of this process, whether we finish today, or whether we actually take another meeting, we are going to come up with a plan that we will put out to public hearing. After we have gone to two public hearings, and heard additional testimony, the question for me is, how in concrete is that plan, or we can then go back and take input that we had and make changes accordingly, or is that plan pretty fixed? My concern is that what we end up with today needs to be as close to that target as we can get it, so we need to actually hone it down, and how much flexibility do we have to amend it subsequently? MR. CHANG: Good morning, Madam Chair, and members of the Commission; Kyle Chang, Deputy Corporation Counsel. I have reviewed both the County Code section applicable to the Redistricting Commission as well as your Commission Rules. There is nothing in either of those pieces of legislation that will limit you guys to being able to further tweak after you have come up with your Draft Plan today. Today, the Draft Plan is strictly a draft. You still have flexibility to tweak it or modify it as you will. The ultimate goal being to come up with your Final Plan later this month. CHR. SIRACUSA: And that is the November 30, 2011 deadline, is that correct? MR. CHANG: Yes, I believe that is your self imposed deadline; by Code, your deadline is December 31, 2011. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Kyle. 19 MR. MELROSE: So what I'm hearing is that we don't have flexibility to make changes later on. I still think we ought to be as close as we can, but we do have flexibility to make some changes, without having to recycle public hearing processes, and the like. MR. CHANG: Yes, you do have that flexibility. Again, just from a practical standpoint, as far as time goes, you may not have time to just throw everything out the door and re -start everything completely, but again, if you wanted to do that, you could. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, Mr. Chang, is it your understanding then, that after the second public hearing that we are going to have after this, there is one in Hilo and one in Kona, then there would be until December 31, 2011 that we would have to come up with the Final Plan? MR. CHANG: Per the Code, you need to have your Final Plan by December 31, 2011. As a Commission, you folks have set your deadline to submit everything to the Clerk by the first of December, so really, November 30th. So for you folks, again, that is what you have established for yourselves. So, really, your own internal deadline is November 30th however, the Code says December 31St CHR. SIRACUSA: I just want to clarify something for Patrick. Remember, we have to allow time for Elections Office to do their part drawing up the metes and bounds; and we need to do a final narrative. Our final narrative report has to be completed by December 31St. If we wait until the final hour to do our Final Plan, then we don't have time to do the narrative, because to a large extent, that is going to be explaining and rationalizing all the decisions that we made, that went into the plan itself. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, thank you for that point of clarification. My reason for asking was just to be sure, categorically clear to the public that after the self - imposed deadline, there is no more input; except at those two hearings, one in Hilo and one in Kona. Then, absolutely, it becomes this body who has to do everything, just as you mentioned, the draft, and putting all the other amenities in the final report, so that Final Map can get out there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, that is correct, thank you. MR. KAHUL Madam Chair, I just wanted to make a note that before we take action on Communication 51, that Communication 5 1. 1 to Communication 51.19, all relates to our continued action to move on, to work on these plans. So, I would submit, maybe, to take action on the Communications, those testimonies, before we move further. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. I just got a note from Karen saying that at our November 30th meeting, when we determine the Final Plan, that we will be taking testimony; but that is the last time we will be taking testimony. 20 MR. CHANG: Yes, and that is actually what I wanted to clarify; that at that last meeting, it will be a regular meeting, you will have testimony. At that point, you can, if you so choose, you can tweak your Draft Plan further to create your Final Plan. MR. MELROSE: One last question; that is I believe we have to meet once in December in order to approve the Final submission to the Elections Office. So that means we need to have reviewed and approved the report that Chairwoman Siracusa mentioned. So we will have one meeting in the month of December to having reviewed the report and approved the report. So there is one more meeting in December. CHR. SIRACUSA: We may very well decide to have another meeting, but that won't be where we take public testimony, because the maps will have already been completed, and it would just be to work together on the final report. I'm looking for these communications that Bo was talking about. Bo is asking us to close file on Communication 51 and the related communications so that we can -- -Wait a minute, I am confused about some processing here. We moved to close file on Communication 51; that motion should have been to close file on Communication 51 and all related Communications. Is that what you meant, Bo? MR. KAHUL Yes. In effect, I think what we are doing is we are closing file on all the previous testimonies, so that at least we can consider them in our dialogue. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right. So actually, I will ask the maker of the motion to re -do it. Who did that? Bo it was you who made that motion, yes, to close file? Ms Poindexter moved to close file on COMM. 51. and all related Communications. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho. CHR. SIRACUSA: Now we can go into discussion. Shyla. MR. MELROSE: Do we have a strategy for how we want to approach this? Can we just talk with the Commission? What do we want to take on first? CHR. SIRACUSA: We left off, we were working on Draft Plan—B. MR. KANUHA: We didn't finish Draft Plan B. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, every time we have gone around with these maps, we have always ended up calling it a day before we really finished working on Puna. We can't put it off any more. MS. POINDEXTER: So, can we start with Puna first, and on that map where we left off? I think we worked with the Hamakua Districts 1 and 9. We came to some type of thing. We will go back and look at it again and maybe possibly tweak it, but I think Rene has a good point, and I suggest that we start in the Puna area. 21 Review and Discuss Commission Draft Plan B CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. So we have that on the map right in front of us at the moment. Commissioner Middlesworth is up there with Shyla. I just want to explain something to the other Commissioners. In my map, RS3, I had done a configuration for Puna that was a mauka /makai based configuration. One of the homework assignments for the Commissioners was for me to try to put that, translate that configuration into Draft Plan _B. And when I tried to do it, census block by census block, I came up with a 1,000 resident difference; which should not happen. So, I put a call through to Royce this morning, at ESRI and asked him if that is possible that could happen, and he said it is if the extractions were not migrated to the base map on which Plan _B or Plan _A was. So we looked at that, and that was not the case. The extractions were done on both of those base plan maps; so that is not the problem. So I asked Shyla if she could see if she could play with that and get the same configuration into a mauka /makai configuration into Plan _B. There are some major problems with the way the census blocks are laid out here. Do we need to give you some time here, Shyla? We did see my plan RS3, and it wasn't good for the rest of the island. I had asked the Commissioners if they would be willing to tweak their respective boundaries, but nobody wanted to go there. But that configuration was the one that worked best for Puna; for the two Puna districts. So my homework assignment was to try and see if I could translate that configuration, not the one that is here, but the mauka /makai configuration, on to Draft Plan _B. And I couldn't get the numbers to work, unfortunately. So I asked Shyla to see if she could get it to work, because she is better at this than I am. It would start at Kalapana, down at the very bottom, Shyla; and put that into District 4. MR. MELROSE: I bet you that the problem you came into was that you ended up cutting HPP. Can you get there without cutting one of those big subdivisions? CHR. SIRACUSA: What happened was on one of the maps, the Maku`u Hawaiian Homes, which spans both sides of the Highway, if it goes into District 5, then you can't get from other parts of District 4 to HPP without driving through Maku`u Hawaiian Homelands, which is District 5. There is no other way in. Can we see your numbers now? We are way over. That is the same problem I was having when I tried to do that. MR. MELROSE: So, then you need to transfer back HPP into - - -It needs to go into the brown district; whatever number that is. CHR. SIRACUSA: You are saying to put Hawaiian Paradise Park into District 5? MR. MELROSE: Of course. It is the only way to do it. I'm not sure you can do that and keep the numbers right. That is the challenge. 22 CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's see. Shyla, can you try and put Paradise Park into District 5? That's not going to work, because then District 4 has too few; unless we grab Ainaloa, or something like that to bring up the numbers again. MR. MELROSE: That's the other change, is to move Ainaloa into the lower one. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's try again putting Hawaiian Paradise Park into District 5 and then putting Ainaloa into District 4. Put that into District 5, because that is the Shower Drive portion of Paradise Park there. Now, go down to Ainaloa and put that into - - -Oh, it already is in District 4. It's not going to work. It's not going to work; we tried. The numbers just don't work, so let's go back to Draft Plan—B. Can we zoom in now on the Pahoa area? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let me ask a couple of questions before we start messing around with maps. Can we make some decisions about communities and what we want to do? Are we committed to putting Waikoloa in District 9? Are we committed to splitting certain communities, and not splitting others? If we decide that, it will make drawing the maps a whole lot easier. MS. POINDEXTER: I want to jump in real quick. We heard a lot of testimony about keeping the commonality of communities together. Even with Pete Hoffmann saying we are responsible to change the politics for the next years; and this is a political thing that we are dealing with, we cannot run away from that. But I want to focus back to what Zendo said; working together. So if you keep the common interests of communities together; like I see the Hamakua district not going into Hilo because, from the Wailuku River out, the commonalities there along that coastline is Ag. So, the decision was, do you move into Hilo and disrupt that, or do you move further into Waimea, who has more things in common with that whole area? And I understand one of the testifiers saying that the Councilman from District 1 never came up to Waimea, when Waimea was in it, but now, if we grow Waimea more into it, because we need to grow; I would prefer growing into a place that is more common, which we talked about last week. And we decided moving more into Puanani, which is still the countryside of Waimea. Because, Waimea, once you get into the downtown, and the dry side, then you are talking about very expensive property. They have more in common with Waikoloa and Puako. That is where I am leading, so I want to make sure that we look at the commonalities of the communities and working together, because Waimea can have a strong voice; the people have the power. Now you are going to get more people power in Waimea in District 1; so it forces the District 1 County Council to work with District 9 County Council, and work together. We are responsible for the next ten years of creating that type of politics. And what we have got to pursue is the people power; so I want to say that what we were talking about with District 1 and District 9, about commonalities, I want to go with that. I understand we are going to have to split some communities, but that is just a line; we are not actually really splitting a community. Like what was said earlier, we are going to work together. MR. CARVALHO: Okay, I understand that, Val. We have this whole bunch of people, like you say, that have more common interests; which is true, with the Ag part of it, the country part of Waimea, the east side. But that is Waimea. So we are talking about trying 23 not to split the people, who are the working people, who it was pointed out that this is an old town. We don't want to split them, these people who are working people, who do not come out in force and whipped up by organizers to promote their interests. It would have been - - -You know, I like Waikoloa, because they are okay. But to me they can move to either side. Since they are advocating staying in District 9; alright, maybe I will give them that. We will look at that more seriously. But, we also got to think that there are a whole bunch of people that are not really representing themselves. MS. POINDEXTER: If you look at those people, they are the working people that have more things in common with the people along the Hamakua coastline. Because, Joe, if you go past Puanani, and you go further down, all of those communities are very wealthy communities. Our local people, the working people, cannot afford down there. So, if you are talking about commonalities, Waikoloa, they are a closer part to the Waimea business district, have more in common. If you are going to take all of Waimea, that means we are going to have to split Waikoloa off Then all that Waimea, really, they don't have all things in common. MR. CARVALHO: I can see the lesser of two evils is to go into Waimea instead of taking more from Hilo. Then you have the population of Hamakua; actually Mike pointed out that is going to be 10,000 people that is going to be in the urban area; and they probably have a stronger political base than the Hamakua side. MR. MELROSE: I want to answer your question. I didn't want to get into a specific debate. What we are trying to accomplish here, is we have two alternatives on the table. And the tendency is to want to jump into the middle of a particular issue attention. We have one alternative that is really driven, in large part, by the preservation of Volcano inside the Puna district. As a result, it pushes votes all around the island in a counter clockwise fashion. That is alternative A, and it has the Waikoloa issue; it keeps Waimea together and it cuts Hamakua. What B does, and this is what I think the principle we are trying to do, in order to sharpen our sword on two alternatives, is that a portion of Volcano, a big enough portion of Volcano to be a significant portion, remains in Ka`u. And that Hamakua needs to grow; it grows a little to the south and it grows a little to the north, and you end up splitting Waikoloa. So, the second alternative is really based on a stepping back from the Volcano issue and dealing with the implications of that on the edges of Hilo and Waimea. So we need to get those two alternatives together. We can fight over which direction we want to go ultimately, but the alternative we are creating is that clear alternative. So I don't want to fight over whether we should or shouldn't do that or not, let's just get the alternative right, and then we can look at them all and say okay, where do we come down on it. MS. POINDEXTER: What would your suggestion be then? MR. MELROSE: To answer - -I think this is the question you were asking, Mike? The issue is that basically Plan_B is intending to come up with a solution that has - -- 24 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I wasn't addressing it to either plan. I was addressing it to us, in terms of what we think about splitting communities and which community ought to be split. MR. MELROSE: My point is that we have two alternatives on the table, and those choices, we can clarify those two different choices very clearly in the two alternatives. When we get that done, then we can decide which one do we want to split. But I think we have to take two different approaches to the problem. We have got two on the table, let's just refine those two alternatives, and that's what I hope we do today. CHR. SIRACUSA: Can I ask us to focus, and now look at this map and Shyla, that part between Kalapana and the boundary with District 4; there are not too many people there. I think we can put that into District 4. Can you check that out? That is too many. It just seems so ridiculous to have Kalapana in the same district as upper Puna. You can undo there Shyla, it doesn't work. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Bring up Plan_A and look at the Puna split there. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: May I have a point of personal privilege while Shyla is getting the maps out. I just want - - -I don't know if you wrote down comments while the people were testifying, but there were several that, I want to be sure, that if you agree, keep that in your minds, and I think we can make the process go quicker. One was the ending statement from Zendo Kern. I want all of you to just keep that in the back of your minds, about us being together. If can, can; if no can, no can. That's what I got from his thing. He said he used Henry Ford; I use Verna, because the outcome is the same. If can, can; if no can, no can. Then also, the statement was made, what is best for the most people. So, that is what I think this body is going to have to do; what is made best for the most people. I understand unique issues; I would beg to differ with one individual who said one of the issues was the donkeys in Waikoloa. I was born and raised on this island; the donkeys in Waikoloa were called Kona Nightingales. So, I don't want to change any of that dynamics, that's the dynamics of the donkeys in Waikoloa. It is not a Waikoloa donkey, it is a Kona donkey. It is a Kona Nightingale. So that is not good. And I say that, just to bring humor to this thing. Without it, I worked with these eight people over the last months, and as we reach the end it is beginning to get kind of testy. We are all looking at each other testy. So I want to make sure that we do it. However, if we as a body keep those few things that the public made input on, I think we can get through this project. We have gotten 40 some odd maps down to two that we are kind of seriously working at, with the respect to having to split, so let's go and see what we can do for the most people and if can, can; and if no can, no can. MS. POINDEXTER: I just want to say one thing to Joe. I'm not siding with you; Jeff said I should dance with you. So I am going to dance with you and not going to argue with you. I am going to dance with you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Very good. 25 MR. KAHUL I apologize. I just want to reassure, at least this Commission; I am in full support of keeping communities intact as one of our objectives. Having said that, and having heard the testimony of those that were present at the last several meetings, Puako, it is my preference, and I think wholly represented by the testimony, that Puako and Waikoloa communities stay with District 9. And that would be my ultimate preference, and then if we go south, and Dru and I have kind of in the past discussed how those boundaries will equal out. I think we have got the population base along our boundaries to make that equitable. So, with that said, I just want to again, reiterate that we keep those communities of interest together. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, thank you. We have a map in front of us. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This is Plan—A. I asked her to put it up so we could look at the Puna configuration on this one. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, let's look at that Puna configuration. That would be --- Shyla, if you can zoom in to that interface at the bottom of Leilani. District 4 can use more numbers there. What if you added from the northern most tip and started adding in to District 4? Go upward and to your right. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I'm not sure why you want to do that, Rene. All of Puna is - - -I mean these are two Puna districts. The one with the smaller number is the one that is going to grow the most in the next ten years. CHR. SIRACUSA: We don't know that for sure; that is an assumption. People in Puna would like to see the most number of Puna people in a Puna district. That is what I am trying to do. I'm trying to see if we can max out that number as much as possible. If we take some from District 5, we can still add more to District 4 here. MR. MELROSE: You can do that, but you end up splitting the community of Opihikao, because you have got people in Opihikao living on two sides of that road. But that's the aligning road. The good thing about that straight line is that there really is no population on either side. But this is really more your call. I am more interested in what we do with the Kea`au core, and how we respond to the Kea`au question. CHR. SIRACUSA: What I am trying to do, is if I can take some from down here from District 5 and put them into District 4, that lowers the number in 5 and when we get up towards Kea`au we will have some flexibility to do some moving around. That is what I am trying to do here. Can we see what else we can get in there without overloading? That almost vertical line is Highway 130 and we want to get Kalapana included. Everything else is covered with lava. MR. MELROSE: Are those other little ones at the end populated? 26 CHR. SIRACUSA: No. They were part of Royal Gardens, but Royal Gardens is long gone, buried under several lava flows. There was somebody there, but if you recall the news a couple of months ago, they "ain't there no more ". MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I agree with you, except that those numbers are still the numbers we have got to use. CHR. SIRACUSA: But we are still within our numbers. Our numbers are still okay here. We have reduced the numbers in-- -where it says Old Kalapana Road, where it diverges from Highway 130; if we can get that into District 4 and still have the numbers. There are five people there to put into District 4. Now, get the narrow strip down there, which is the road, into District 4. District 5 has room to grow, so we can see how we can take it towards either Volcano or Kea`au, or what else we are going to do with it. There's Kea`au; so we can take some of these on the west side of the Kea` au Bypass; there are those numbers, where it says, 45, 22, 75. We can take those out of District 3 and put them into District 5. Let's move up Highway 11 towards Volcano, slowly. MR. MELROSE: But now you have split Kea` au town. CHR. SIRACUSA: Everything on one side of the bypass; the other side of the bypass is all ag. MR. MELROSE: You are not on the bypass yet. You still have the makai side; Milo Street, that is still in District 3. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, there's the Bypass, okay. We can handle this right now. Take it all, take that whole area of Kea`au, and put it in District 5. MR. MELROSE: You can take all the way to the shore without having the population change; it's just all ag. It doesn't make any difference; you can do it or not do it. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can tell by the color in the blocks whether there are people in them or not. The darker blue means there are people there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Oh, is that how it works? I was wondering about that; about those color variations. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, you see that diagonal line; that is the Puna boundary. All of that has to go in. That's close enough. CHR. SIRACUSA: It will just be a question of cleaning it up. District 4 is pretty much maxed out. We can add more to District 5; if we go up Highway 11 and see what is happening there. 27 MR. KAHUL Madam Chair, this is Bo. We are just curious; what map are you working with? CHR. SIRACUSA: That is Map A. MR. KAHUL Okay, we were just a little bit confused because we know that the support for Plan_B was there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right, and we will get back to Plan—B. MR. KAHUL Alright. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: What we were trying to do was see if we could get at least Puna right in both of these plans, and then move on around the rest of the island on both maps and see - -- MR. MELROSE: They will be very different on each map. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, they will, but every time we have gone around these maps, we have always ended up passing on Puna, or we came to the end of the meeting and we never really did anything on it. So we are trying to play a little catch up here. MR. KAHUL Thank you. MR. MELROSE: So, are there other areas in Plan _A that we want to spend some time on? I heard you say we can clean up the pieces on that as we go along. CHR. SIRACUSA: I would like to try and get everything done today. MR. MELROSE: I know; I realize that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We can alter A to make the top part of it match B without any difficulty. The problem is getting Puna done to satisfy Rene. And it is easier to do it on this one than it is on the other one. CHR. SIRACUSA: And I'm a tough sell. MS. POINDEXTER: And then transferring that piece into Plan—B? MR. MELROSE: Except that this one has the distinction of -- -They are really quite different in how you treat Puna. You still give them two seats; and I think that's a given. But I think the question is what you do with the excess. This one runs it into Hilo, the other one runs it out the other direction. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Rene is trying to eliminate the excess as much as possible. W CHR. SIRACUSA: Right. And not only that, but I am trying to get, as much as possible, a mauka /makai. But I've pretty much recognized that the way I was trying to do mauka /makai, which is the traditional way that Puna has been divided, is not going to work with these numbers. I have been spending hours and hours with these maps; I have been dreaming these damn maps. And with all the good will in the world, I can't make it happen. MR. MELROSE: Can we move on, and look on this one in Hilo, at the District 2 and 3 interfaces? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Let's finish Puna. MS. POINDEXTER: I think Linda deserves to go into the Volcano area too, because we are always -- -Puna and Volcano was always - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: All of Volcano is in Puna. MS. POINDEXTER: All of Volcano is in this one? Okay. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: But I think there is more of Puna yet to be included. Let's let Rene finish Puna. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, and Volcano is part of Puna; we want it to be, anyways. Let's see, where is the Golf Course? It is included; it is in District 5 now. Is that okay for you, Linda? MS. UGALDE: Yes. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, let's move down Highway 11 towards Kea`au again and see if we can gain some numbers. If we gain some numbers from District 2; does that make sense; some of these communities on the left side, on the north side of Highway 11. MR. MELROSE: Would you take it from the Kea`au approximate side, or the distant side? It would seem to me that you would build it off the Volcano side, the Mountain View side, than the Kurtistown side. Otherwise you have a road connectivity issue, is my concern. CHR. SIRACUSA: The Highway 11 can be used by both. MR. MELROSE: Yes, but if you close it off here at Kea`au, it doesn't get all the way to the next one. CHR. SIRACUSA: No, I don't want to close if off at Kea`au. That little yellow dot up there; we need to clean it up. There is no later, this is the day we have to do everything. We are right here, we might as well do it while we are here, then we don't have to revisit it. MS. POINDEXTER: Showing the love; we are dancing, we're dancing. 29 CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. I like to dance. I like to dance. So let's move along Highway 11. Let's do that little tweaking right there. We are going to move north, I am going to move into Stainback Highway. Patrick, do you want to start? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I want you to finish up Puna. CHR. SIRACUSA: I think we got Puna here. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: There's a lot of Puna still here. CHR. SIRACUSA: But, where do we take it from? MR. MELROSE: That's what I'm suggesting is; you take it from the Volcano side. I know it is a very difficult - - -Go to Kulani Road, or start from that north side and pull it down; see what you can do with it. Go from the south side of the district, down by Volcano, and just move whatever you can. There are some silly districts in there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Too high. MR. MELROSE: Yes, it's a little high. You can pull back, off of Kulani. CHR. SIRACUSA: Take the part by North Kulani Road and put it back into District 2. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, put everything that is Puna in District 5, and then we need to expunge the extras out of Kea`au. It's the most logical way to do it. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It is; the problem comes later on. This does not work. I have done this five or six times; it does not work, because you see what it does to District 2; which means you have got to go way up into Hamakua, then you are going to end up with Waimea being in the Hamakua district, and it just goes right around the island. You cannot put this many people in Puna. CHR. SIRACUSA: Go back to North Kulani Road and take that part to the left of it that you put into District 5 and put it back into District 2. North Kulani connects to Stainback, so there is access there. So it wouldn't change any numbers if we put it into District 2, so there is no need to bother with that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That is the reason that I drew Puna the way that I did on that Plan. It gets you two Puna districts, it includes Volcano, it does not max out the districts because if you max them out, then you screw up everything else. There is a limit to what you can do. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, I recognize that. Let's see what we can do now to District 2 and District 3. 30 MS. POINDEXTER: I would say, for me, I would like to spend a lot of time working on the map that we think is the one we really want to work on. We are using so much time, and I know a lot of people wanted B, and last time we met we - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The bottom of B is a bad map. MS. POINDEXTER: Right, so let's work on the bottom of B. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, let's save this Shyla. MS. POINDEXTER: Why aren't we just working on B? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Because it's easier to change the top of A then it is to change the bottom of B, when you do the map work. I'll show you in a few minutes. Shyla, can you revert back to the original A? CHR. SIRACUSA: Save this one first. MS. POINDEXTER: We should save it as something else. MR. KAHUL Madam Chair, if I might; this is Bo from Kona. I do support Valerie's position. I understand the need to go to Plan _B and work out that. I am hoping that we can get through this exercise, so we can get to B. Thank you. MS. POINDEXTER: We are doing a waltz Bo, right now, smooth. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We are; we are doing a waltz, because drawing these maps, everything you do changes something else. And so, if we can agree on the bottom part of it, changing the top of it is real easy Valerie. Just go back to A as it was, and then go up to the Hamakua area. CHR. SIRACUSA: Are you going to show us how we can fix that? MS. POINDEXTER: Let's make this top of Hamakua area look more like Map B. So take the District 1 and District 9 boundary into Puanani, where we had it last. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Get the census block numbers. You need those when you start messing around up there. MS. POINDEXTER: Then, the other side of District 1 and District 2 is on the Wailulaj River. So we are moving the line further into Waimea; we are putting Honoka`a back in. MR. CARVALHO: Hamakua goes back to Waipio; is that what you are saying? MS. POINDEXTER: Yes, taking all of Honoka`a, Waipio. 31 MR. MELROSE: Is this the place to do this? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It is easier doing it here. Go into Waimea - -- MS. POINDEXTER: Take all of it up until Puanani; past White Road. That way we stay on the Wailuku River between District 1 and 2. CHR. SIRACUSA: Shyla, click on "Display Names" so we can watch the numbers. MS. POINDEXTER: Go further, past Nani Waimea. There we go; you see Iakua Place, where it says 287, try clicking all of that over. MR. CARVALHO: Is that Puanani? MS. POINDEXTER: We are going to take all of this and take from there over, and then we will go back to between District 1 and 2 and take out Hilo. Did we get all of that one? MR. CARVALHO: Shyla, go all the way up to Waipio. MS. POINDEXTER: Then, after this Joe, we will go to Waikoloa and put Waikoloa back in. Take all of that; it's Kukuihaile, Waipio; all the way to the valley. MR. CARVALHO: Now put Waikoloa back in District 9. MS. POINDEXTER: I would suggest, too, later on, that we look at saving this as Plan—C, because if we continue to save it as Plan A, the perception in the community is going to go hey, they took Plan A; which this is totally not Plan _A anymore. CHR. SIRACUSA: It doesn't look like Plan_A anymore. MR. KAHUL This is Bo in Kona. I support Valerie's assertion that this should be named another map. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: I agree. MR. MELROSE: Call it C. MS. POINDEXTER: Hawi is in District 9. You can go up there. It keeps it all together. It is all included; it is all intact. Pololu Valley, it is still in District 9. MR. CARVALHO: Pololu Valley is in District 9. CHR. SIRACUSA: Where is Puako? MR. CARVALHO: Let's go down to the Hilo side. 32 MS. POINDEXTER: Now we got to go and pull out of Hilo. We took more of Waimea, so we are going to move the Hamakua line back. Go back to the river. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: All the way to the river. CHR. SIRACUSA: Sounds like a song title. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We have room for 1,500 people in District 2, and we've got room for maybe about 400 people in District 3. But we've got almost 6,000 extra people in District 1. Now, what are we going to do with them? MS. POINDEXTER: You see Wainuenue Avenue and all that; all that goes back into Hilo and out of Hamakua. CHR. SIRACUSA: Before when we were doing Puna, we had higher numbers in Puna. Did that get saved? District 2 can shed some into District 5. Let's go into the individual subdivisions. Council District 5 doesn't need to get any bigger than that. District 5 is over now. We know we have an overflow from Puna. We know that; we accept that. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Some parts of Puna, Madam Chair, that as I heard it expressed, they are going to be put somewhere else; instead of four different parts of Puna getting put somewhere else. That's the message that I heard. If there is only one place in Puna that has got to go into the Hilo or the Ka`u side, wherever, that's okay; right now you've got three or four places that's going to go. CHR. SIRACUSA: District 4 can do some growing here, and if it takes from District 5, then District 5 can take some from District 2. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Yes, Madam Chair. I believe that is what was the first impression from Commissioner Middlesworth; that the numbers in Puna, were really planned for growth. Rather than shedding for the sake of shedding, we should have been arguing and making sure that most of the people, that we move forward for most of the people and that not diminishing the fact that Puna is going to have two full on districts; two seats. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Look now at District 8. MR. KANUHA: We know there is a need to get more people into District 8, but I think that with this map, currently, there is no reason to - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The only way you can do it is to move Volcano back into District 6, move more of District 2. You make District 6 a lot bigger, just like we always have had and then you are going to have to move north with District 7. You are going to lose most of District 7 into District 8 no matter what we do with the rest of the island, when you draw it this way. 33 MR. KANUHA: I realize that. That's why I'm saying that this configuration in taking more from District 7 into District 8 and 6 into 7, doesn't make sense to me. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This is what you get when you put Waik6loa in with Waimea and keep Honoka`a all in District 1 and do it this way. MR. MELROSE: I just get the sense that we are backing into B; and I don't know why we aren't working off of B. We just seem to be going around in circles. CHR. SIRACUSA: We are going to. MR. MELROSE: We are, but we are just backing into it. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let's go to B and then we'll talk about the problems with B. MS. UGALDE: May I offer a suggestion? If we are going to go from A to B; let's stop for lunch. MR. CARVALHO: Can we save this as Plan_C just in case? Ms. Poindexder moved to save the revised Map as Plan _C. Seconded by Mr. Melrose and carried by carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. RECESS: At 12:45 p.m. the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 1:45 p.m. CHR. SIRACUSA: Recess is over and I am calling the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission back to order again. You can continue eating and multi -task. Eat and plan, eat and plan. We don't have Shyla. Jeff is going to go down and play Shyla for a while. We're going to Draft Plan B. She's prettier, we have to admit she's prettier. It has been suggested to me folks that at this point it might be a good time for us to go around and each of us very, very briefly tell the rest of us what our bottom line is as regards to what we hope to achieve for our districts. 34 MS. UGALDE: I will start because I'm furthest on the left, whatever that means. I talked to a number of people in Volcano and after the newspaper article that came out on the fourth I guess, they all figured there's no way that Volcano is gonna stay in Puna. So, and especially with Waikoloa and Waimea there is no way that Volcano is going to — I'm gonna make everybody's life easy. Do what you have to do, but do not split Volcano down the main highway. It has to be at least Akatsuka's to golf course together on both sides of the road. And that's all I'm asking. Amen. CHR. SIRACUSA: That's very clear, thank you. That would just make a large voting block of Volcano into Ka`u but you would certainly be able then to get the attention of your council person. Okay, Patrick. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, I wasn't even thinking about the voting block, but I do want to commend Commissioner Ugalde because I know she went - - -She did actively go back and seek this input from her community and maybe not knowing that this was going to happen, but I believe what she has done has really has in my mind, it was the essence of some of the testimony; what is best for the whole, but their community really stepped - -based on what she's just represented -- stepped forward to say, "Look, just take us as a unit." And I think we had at points in time, believed that was what we were going to do, instead of splitting we were gonna take communities as a whole and move them somewhere so they could fit into the dynamics of this 21,483. Thank you, thank you Commissioner Ugalde. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes thank you very much. I'm sorry; I really was hoping we could get it to happen but as we all saw from those numbers it's just not going to work. So, at the very least, another benefit of that of course is that Ka`u would not have to creep so far up encroaching on South Kona and those communities up there and might help some of the numbers that you're struggling with between 7 and 8. MR. KANUHA: Madam Chair, Dru Kanuha, District 7. I would also like to say thank you Ms. Ugalde. I also wanted to bring up the point that being from Volcano you really throughout this whole process knew nothing about the South Kona region. Um, saying that, to have a representative to represent both the South Kona and the Volcano interest, you have to have a complete understanding of both — all the areas involved which is really, really difficult. So for myself I had to pretty much step up to be that South Kona representative because of your lack of knowledge of that South Kona area because you're so connected to the Volcano and Puna area. So, I just wanted to say that; I dunno. MS. UGALDE: As long as I don't get lynched we're good. MS. POINDEXTER: First of all I'd like to thank Linda because you have helped all of us make it easier to be able to draw our lines easier you know. Because keeping that and Volcano in the Puna area or district would have pushed everything off again so somebody had to give it up — so, with that said, again thank you. And I'll call you Linda. Dru should have called her aunty or whatever, he's so young. 35 CHR. SIRACUSA: As long as he doesn't call me Tutu. MS. POINDEXTER: But anyway, I'd like to see like I said before, the communities that have the commonalities together which is for district 1 to include more of Waimea versus going into Hilo, crossing the Wailuku River. So, because of the commonalities in those communities, like I stated before earlier. So I don't think I have to go into that again, but that is where I stand and I think it also not forces but encourages the Waimea, which will have a bigger voice now to say hey, our representative in District 1 needs to work hard with our District 9 representative. People have the power. So we're giving Waimea actually more power into the District 1, and we're forcing people to work together and I think we have to foster that and encourage people to speak out about that because the people they do have the power. Anyway that's where I stand and from what I said earlier. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I have two things that I'm concerned about. One is Patrick's concerns about the Hawaiians and the Hawaiian Homelands and that end of it which leads me to say that I am not at all fond of the Districts 2 and 3 on the Plan _B because that combines the vastly rural area where I am and some other people with the downtown and I don't think it's a good way to draw the districts. That's my bottom line. CHR. SIRACUSA: Your bottom line is to keep the rural and the urban segments separate. Is that correct? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The way it is now. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. Dru. MR. KANUHA: The way it's turning out you can see that there is a push for a Kailua Village district itself being in that small area there are 20,000 people. To keep the Village itself intact, based upon the Kailua Village Business Improvement District. I've said this many times, the lines on many of these maps are drawn towards that specific purpose so to keep it that way would be my recommendation. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Jeff Is Bo back? Good. What we're doing Bo is we're going around and each of us is sharing with the others what our bottom line is. You know, where are we going to hold the line when it comes to maybe making sacrifices or what else. So what would it be for you? MR. KAHUL Okay. I appreciate the courtesy. I'm with Dru. I think when you look at that Kailua Village and whether it goes into District 8 or District 7, it's - - -We got two representatives in Kona, that would share that same kind of constituency. So, you know for me I think if we can work the numbers out, great. Secondly, I think when you look at the Kona CDP what's happened with our district, particularly with Kealakehe and Kealaolu and the urbanization of those two ahupua`a, we again look to see to ensure that those urban areas stick together because then they have a common interest as they grow. And then of course, as I've always mentioned, I think out of respect for those northern boundaries, 36 Puako and Waikoloa, I'm convinced that the community has voiced their opinion, they want to be part of Kohala, District 9, and I support that wholeheartedly. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Bo. Jeff MR. MELROSE: Thank you. I think I have two bottom lines. One is that whatever we do doesn't exasperate the tensions that are continually getting in our way politically, island - wide, and so I'm not interested in creating a circumstance that somebody else is going to try and define as a political move because that's certainly not what we're doing and isn't fair to claim on us and I don't want to do that. So, as it relates - - -I think that Plan A, my sense of Plan —A has been that it really probably is ten years from now, we're gonna look at Plan —A and say that's really what's gonna happen next. If Hamakua doesn't grow in population it's gonna have to and continue to infringe on other communities in order to be a district in the future. At some points it will get split. If it doesn't grow it will get split because it can't just keep moving into other communities. So I think that's just a harbinger of the future as far as Hamakua's concerned. I think as far as District 2 is concerned, the river is a good boundary I'm still a little kanalua about missing the Pueo urban core right off the side of the river, would be better in Hilo if it could be that, but I like a mauka /makai orientation and I'm all for maintaining the Pana`ewa/Keaukaha connectivity — maybe Waikea Uka — that that connectivity is the logical seat so that 2 goes up and down to the ocean and then there is a way to keep Keaukaha together with Pana`ewa and additional votes going up Waiakea Uka would be my suggestion. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. I should skip over Patrick because we all know what he's gonna say. Nah, no; go on Patrick. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Thank you madam chair for including me in this discussion. I think what Commissioner Melrose mentioned about we not - -- The perception that can be out there that what we've done or are proposing to do is again somehow politically motivated. I would also want to make sure that that's not the perception that's out there. However, if it is, that's right, so be it, thick skinned and all. But I thought it was a valid opportunity to hear from our community. Today, this morning, we heard from several people. I never thought we would, but we did. We received from the community, which is what I'm really concerned about, all the communities, you know, people were thanking this Commission for the work that they've done, the transparency of it. Is it the Ordinance? Is it the new software? Is it more engaging of communities? Yes, I think if push comes to shove all of that together has made for a different atmosphere of wanting to be truly represented. I think we've all heard the fact that no matter where we went, somebody was somewhere getting or having the opportunity to gravitate to have to either give up something or take someplace else that we're not comfortable with. So I would again want to thank all of you, my spin is just that with - - -I have just one regret that if there are people in our communities that believe what's being done is perceived to them to be Hilo- centric I can't see that because if you remember this young man that came first to our Kea`au -- excuse me-- Pahoa, where he mentioned that we live on an island and as far as native Hawaiians were concerned, we live on Mokupuni o Hawaii, Mokupuni o 37 Keawe which is how we, as native Hawaiians, classify this island, but bearing in mind maybe his little misunderstanding that the island now is not governed by our Ali`i but is governed by a set of laws now. Though as native Hawaiians we may argue about it, it's a different time, it's a different era. As a Hawaiian we never should forget our past, because with that we'll never know how we get forward. So, with that said, I think it's an opportunity for us to move forward the areas that I have wanted to keep together. It's just that there's simple reasons for that. Let me explain so that nobody- -it's a different understanding. Keaukaha is and always will be a community on the ocean. We have 2,000 or so more acres that go around Leleiwi that ties into Puna. We started at Hilo One which is Bay Front and we move towards Puhi and then around Leleiwi to Pawai. So the whole area was just that. It was our icebox. It provided for our families and it still does today. We've got people that live in condos now, that's a different demographic, but they also began to embrace us as people of common interest. So we understand and hope that we can do that. I just have a little different spin on it because the airport, for those of you that don't know, used to belong to us. The lands that the harbors sit on, used to belong to us. We've been the subject of - -- There's no other community on this whole island that's been subjected to having a sewer treatment plant put in your property for the last almost fifty years, taken away to put the sewer plant. So we now have the biggest commercial area on this island that everybody else benefits also along with the native Hawaiians. That's the Prince Kuhio Plaza and every other commercial area you see in that area there. But we're also diverse in having residential and homesteads. So, that's what I have been adamantly trying to keep together so that we can move forward with this process in a way that will benefit the whole island as a whole and I think again, I need to go back to Commissioner Ugalde's representation right at the beginning; it sure is going to make it easier to find a solution, to reach a solution so everybody be satisfied. With that madam Chair, thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Patrick. Gee I thought it was just going to be a couple of lines, but you got very poetic and very moving statement. Okay, Joe. MR. CARVALHO: Thank you madam chair. I wanna let you guys know that this has been a very educational process for me and the Commission is a very good bunch of people to work with. Everybody's sincere and we all want to do the right thing of our districts, however, we can compromise when we know we need to, to make it fair for everybody on the island. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you and now it's my turn. I first of all want to thank all of the commissioners and I want to thank all the members of the public and staff who helped move the whole process through and provide input. For me I said from day one that my highest priority was getting two full complete districts for Puna and I think no matter what else happens that's gonna happen and I think I have everybody's support on that. My next second priority was try to get Volcano into Puna mauka but the way we've been working with the numbers it really doesn't look like that's gonna happen and so I yield to the inevitable on that one. But I think my highest priority is to make sure that whatever we M come up with is the fairest we can possibly do for the island as a whole and to minimize any hardships or supposed harm to anyone and keep the amount of harm very small as possible. As I told Nancy last week, if we're gonna have a sacrificial lamb I want it to be a very teensie, teensie lamb. So, with that I think we can get back now. Now that we know where we all stand, I would like to get back Shyla to — we're moving on to Plan —B and we're gonna start looking at that. MR. KAHUL I would want to know which Plan —B we're working on. Mike's recent revision 1.11? MR. MELROSE: All we have is the one that's formally in front of us --- B. MS. POINDEXTER: The one that we finished last week. CHR. SIRACUSA: Eleven -One — November 1St. That's the one we saved as Plan B. MR. KAHUL Okay, alright. Thank you. MR. MELROSE: Can I suggest — I'd like to go to the frontage of Hilo to start on this conversation. Can we do this? Can you go down in on Hilo. I wanna make a suggestion here. There's some very good traditional boundaries here that I think we should use. Hilo is really in three parts traditionally. Hilo Paliku, Hilo One, and Hilo Hanakahi. Hilo Paliku is the upright cliffs from the river North. Hilo One, from the river along the sand beach, and Hilo Hanakahi from the edge of the Wailoa River out to Pana`ewa. So I'd like to let 1 be the Hilo Paliku district that goes out to the cliff, and then to move back all that is in Keaukaha and to the airport and to the Naniloa area, the hotels, all should be part of Hilo Hanakahi and so we need to switch these a bit so that there's a Hilo One that comes right down Wailoa Park, right down the Wailoa River — is that about right? Somewhere in that area. We can figure out where that boundary goes. So let's start on the — let's get all of that Pana`ewa, excuse me, all of the Keaukaha /airport area, get that into District 3. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Jeff, can we get everything east of Kanoelehua all the way down to the northern boundary of Paradise Park? MR. MELROSE: Let's start there and see where the boundaries - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: And Shyla, can you click on "display names" so as we move along we can see how the numbers are changing. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Have you got the population blocks? Yeah. When you get closer in they will show. MR. KAHUL Madam chair; just out of curiosity, we know that were some revisions made to the Plan B, alternate 1.11 underscore 6 as I believe, is that different from the plan that's already presented up front and are we moving into that same direction to the alternate 1.11. 39 CHR. SIRACUSA: Actually it is different, I'm looking at the printout of it here Bo, and as we move along we can compare the two and discuss the differences between the two versions. MR. KAHUL Are we then to assume that this is the plan to which we're gonna work on with hopes to come to an agreement? CHR. SIRACUSA: It appears to be that way, yes. All things being equal; as long as we can make it work. MR. KAHUL Yes. And I just hate to think that we move on to another plan. Let's stick to one plan; if this is the one, then I'm wanting to work with that. Okay thank you so much. MR. MELROSE: You're building 3, not 2. You want to put in 3. So take all of Keaukaha. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Everything East of Kanoelehua. MR. MELROSE: Okay so just pull out a minute `cause I think, I want to see the top side of D2 just to know if there's anything - - -We can make all the adjustments here at the bottom but as long as the upper portion is alright. How come it's so narrow in there? What did we - - -I would come up that whole - -let's just broaden it out for looks in some ways but take from the Kaumana ahupua`a- -you see where it says Kaumana ahupua`a; just put all that into 2 now. It just makes it broader; there's not much population. You can do it up higher all in there. Take it all, it will go way up, but that's alright. MS. POINDEXTER: Jeff the one by Pi`ihonua can't we just stretch that out a little bit so that it doesn't look like it's just going in? MR. MELROSE: Oh yes, we can go right up above Pi`ihonua Camp; okay that's good. CHR. SIRACUSA: There's nothing there and the numbers don't change. MR. MELROSE: Then back down to the river. You can clean that little piece too; take all of it. Now back to the river. See how it looks; you can take it up where the D1 is, that whole area above it, it won't make any difference, there's nothing. Exactly; Shyla, clean up that little edge. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This is not what I was talking about when I was talking about the way the districts are now. You're running two long districts out and that's not what we're talking about. When I said what my bottom line is, one is that to have that central District 3 like we've had in the past which comes all the way down the highway. MR. KAHAWAIOLAA: Excuse me, Commissioner Middlesworth, Kanoelehua all the way till - -- .N MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Go all the way down to the top of Paradise Park. Everything east of that line is District 3 and District 2 is the big district that includes part of town and Waiakea Uka and all of the stuff just as it does now. MR. MELROSE: So you're bottom line includes Kea`au in 3? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If we need the overflow. MR. MELROSE: Right now you don't? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Right now we don't because we're stretching out so far to the west. MR. MELROSE: But there's no - - -We didn't take any of the population, we just cleaned it up. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Well no. You got 3 stretching all the way up. MR. MELROSE: The difference, from my perspective I don't know exactly how to interpret what you're doing, but it would be to now make the adjustment between - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This is my district right there. It goes from Hilo out to the west. MR. MELROSE: No, no. Your district is not 2. CHR. SIRACUSA: Mike, as you speak to Jeff please do it into the mic so that we have it on the record. MR. MELROSE: Your district is 4 which is - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I'm not talking about the numbers Jeff, I'm talking about the physical district. MR. MELROSE: Okay, my thought was that we - - -My suggestion is that we use that traditional definition of the beginning of those two districts that you have one that comes up from the beach, one that comes up from the Pana`ewa area and one that comes up from the Hanakahi, One and Paliku. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I think it would be a lot better for the Hilo people to keep the districts similar in shape whether we change the numbers or not. But keep people in the same geographic district that they've always been in. In other words, you've got a district that includes mostly downtown which is now District 4, Patrick's district, and my District 3 which extends west and includes part of Puna and on out. MR. KAHAWAIOLAA: Oh chair, I think I understand the logic behind Commissioner Middlesworth's scenario he just raised. I'm sorry if I caused the confusion by using, 41 excuse me, traditional place names in areas of Hilo Paliku, Hilo One and Hilo Hanakahi. In actuality, what Mr. Middlesworth speaks about, Hilo Hanakahi is the back part of Hilo coming up, except from the coastline. So I would defer to his suggestion right now how he'd like to have the lines drawn because again, I'm hearing the overflow of Puna would more than likely I don't think Commissioner Ugalde's representation is going to really-- - We still short someplace yet. MR. MELROSE: I don't think so. I think it's very close. I think you could take all of Puna in 5 and 4, the rest of it. And you could leave two long districts, one with - - -My suggestion is still to use Keaukaha/Pana`ewa and Waikea Uka as the basis of 3. But 3 is your district so, your call. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I guess what I think you know when we talk about communities of interest and what we're doing and all this stuff is that District 3 as it exists now is much more of a rural district than what you're drawing here. You're putting a huge amount of urban Hilo into that district. MR. MELROSE: I split it. I split the urban and the rural between the two. CHR. SIRACUSA: Jeff please speak into the mic. MR. MELROSE: There's a split between -- -Both seats have urban, both seats have rural, both seats have mauka /makai connectivity, both have Waikea flows as part of that ahupua`a of Waiakea. That's basically what that boundary is; is the ahupua`a of Waiakea. They go you know; both districts have an urban core, one is kind of the shopping center /industrial area, one is the old town and the government center. That doesn't seem odd to me. Living mauka in 2, that up and down Kaimana /Waianuenue whatever the way you get into town it's a mauka /makai link. You can come in multiple different ways to do that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I'm not quarreling with that Jeff What I'm quarreling with is that you are changing to a great extent the character of these two districts. We now have a district that is essentially the most urban part of Hilo and we have a district that I'm in that is more rural than it is urban. MR. MELROSE: And that district went to Puna. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, that district did not go to Puna. I'm in 3, I'm not in 4. The way it was up until now is you had an urban district that ran down along essentially down along Kanoelehua down in to Puna. MR. MELROSE: The benefits of it are? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I don't know what the benefits of it are, I'm just telling you that's the way it was and that's what people are used to. And now we're gonna split it so that we're taking -- -We're changing it. Now, you don't want to change Hamakua, you 42 don't want to change some of these other things, I don't want to change this district so much. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, why don't you lead Shyla to put - - -Why don't you do that and let's see what that looks like? And then we will have seen both ways of doing it and then we can take it from there. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Everything east of the highway down to - -- MR. MELROSE: I like the way this one looks and if I were to do — I'm really glad you're gonna do it. I want to end this process of if I were to do this I'd expand D5 and D4 up to the Puna boundary and I'd let those two long districts connect a mauka /makai urban/rural mix. That would be the District I would do. So, keep that in your mind guys, now let's go look at his option and we can make a choice. MR. KANUHA: Could you do what you wanted to do and maybe save it? MR. MELROSE: Then I would say we're over in 3 and the way to get back on it is to pull part of the Puna, just shift that back into Puna. It doesn't need to be in the Hilo district. Both of those two got room. The other thing is that we could make some adjustments between D2 and 3, I take the area above the highway 130, above Kea`au and put it into 5. Huina Road and that area. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right, I have no problem with that one. MR. KAHAWAIOLAA: We still tweaking what Commissioner Melrose is doing? MR. MELROSE: Yes. Then you can vote it the other way. Either way. CHR. SIRACUSA: And then we have two to look at and compare. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Okay. Thank you. MR. MELROSE: I want a 130. So where the D3 is, that whole area can go up to the — no not the 75, where D3 is. There. All of that, everything on that side goes to 5. Yes. Yeah, all of it up to the Puna boundary. You could use North Road is fine. That's about the extent you can take out of that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Is North Road a good road at all? Do you know? MR. MELROSE: It doesn't -- -It's not really a drivable road, I think portions of it is drivable but — MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There's some access problems. 43 MR. MELROSE: Just take that one out. Yeah, but you don't have to drive through it. There's no population. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You have to go to- - -Well there is some population back up there. You'd almost have to go to Stainback in order to get access. MR. MELROSE: Yeah okay. Alright. So, we can make an adjustment around 5 and 4 — we're still working on the Hilo side of that. So, then just bring me in between 2 and 3, the boundary between 2 and 3. That road at current is where? That's the Kanoelehua; that's the Puainako. So I would take the - - -How do you get to that? Probably I'd take the corner off of it, about University. You know where Kawili is. Just take that corner and that should about bring us to parity. Right there at the bottom. We're building 3. Alright, I'm sorry. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You gotta take those three blocks underneath. MR. MELROSE: Yeah take the three blocks underneath it. Yeah. Okay you're within range. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, yeah. The numbers are okay now. Mr. Melrose moved to save the revised version of Plan —B as Plan_B 1. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. CHR. SIRACUSA: But we were gonna go look at the other; at Mike's rendition of Hilo. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can just use this one. Doesn't matter. Okay. Expand 2, everything west of the highway and see what we get. Come down Kanoelehua bringing District 2 down along the highway. Where do we get? Yeah. Just come the road for now and then you can pick all that up easier later. One person. Those two lower census blocks, might as well put in 5. There's only one person in one and two in the other. Okay, now, make the rest of it; yeah all that stuff into 2 and then we'll go back up by the University and take more back into 3. Okay. Now, first go up to the top up by the Bay Front and take all that downtown into 3. MR. MELROSE: I like a much better mauka/makai route. Then you have a Hilo One representative and a Hilo Hanakahi. .. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let's see what we get. You don't want to get too much now, I think. It's gonna go too much. It backed off too much. Go across Waianuenue, you see where Waianuenue is? That red line at the - -- Something's going wrong. There, now it's back. But it's still screwy. Something's wrong with it. Gotta wait a minute for it to settle down I think. Try to select something and see what happens. I don't know where all those red lines came from. CHR. SIRACUSA: You know Mike it sorta strikes me just now glancing over it, the map of the current council districts that Jeff and Patrick are looking at, that Hilo right now has 3 districts, but it will only have 2 and so you can't - - -And Puna will have two instead of one. So you can't really follow the traditional previous district lines because it's a different number of districts. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, but I'm not saying to follow them specifically Rene, but the idea is to get an "urban" district in Hilo just as we have an "urban" district in Kona. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. Gotcha. MR. MELROSE: We're so much bigger of a city though. We can have two. MR. KANUHA: But it's not really an urban — I mean it is an urban core for sure in the town Kailua but it also extends mauka to encompass all of mauka Holualoa area which is a more rural and the whole mauka /makai connection; the ahupua`a. CHR. SIRACUSA: Carry on Mike. This is yours; go for it. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We don't know. It's not -- -it's got all these screwy red lines and things and we're not sure it's working and I don't think it is. I think you may end up having to close it and reopen it and see what happens. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, let's take a little recess while Shyla un- stresses and while we get this little technical difficulty worked out. RECESS: At 2:40 p.m. the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 2:57 p.m. MR. MELROSE: Okay um, just go down and look at Pueo just briefly. I don't know how many real votes there are and you can split it and still leave it kind of - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There's a fairly easy way to get that populace area of Pueo into District 2. 45 MR. MELROSE: Okay. Gotta be makai of Wainaku Street. Go makai of Wainaku, is that what you're saying? Mike, makai of Wainaku Street? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The other side of the river. Makai of Wainaku. MR. MELROSE: So you can still drive up and go up Kaiwiki, whatever. Okay. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Right, right. MR. MELROSE: That's a lot but um it's gonna blow out; well that's alright, we can adjust it. MS. POINDEXTER: No because we can go more into Waimea. MR. MELROSE: We can go little more into Waimea but we also need to adjust 2. Yeah. Just that, out to Pukihae Stream. Yeah, to Pukihae Stream where the 113 /106 - - -No, the other way. Yeah. The front piece. And just go from there and that; keep going. I think what they're saying is the 113/154, 45, 143. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, not that long one. There you go. MR. MELROSE: Now pull back cause we gotta look at the difference between 2 and 3; both of which are now high. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yeah they're both high. What do we get then? Yeah go down towards Puna. We still have -- -Over there, up toward Stainback Highway; yeah I guess it's not gonna work. MR. MELROSE: Before I walk away from this one, I wanna make one suggestion; go back between 2 and 3. You see where we jog in for uh between 2 and 3. I wanna turn that back to 3 and then take the jog from the top down. So, you know just from -- -That piece should go back into 3 but I want to take - - -I wanna connect it from the lower edge down from mauka /makai so it doesn't jut out but is consistent with the upper portion of that. Okay. Now go up to 176 and 640 mauka of Komohana; right there. Yeah take that. Oh I'm still high though, I don't need to add more. No need more, I'm sorry. Take that out. And we need to shed out of 3, gotta go back to Puna I think cause there's still some -- -Yeah that Kea`au area. Not the Kea`au area but above. No that's not gonna help. I think, as I've played with this before it's really - - -I like the idea of having Pueo but I don't think we can do it. I think it doesn't work. Just back up a couple and we'll take out the Pueo out and I'll leave that they way it is. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Give Pueo back to Valerie. We gotta throw some from 3 into 2. MR. MELROSE: Okay. So go back to where I was looking at right at the upper portion. Above Komohana. So mauka of Komohana, 176, that area. Yeah. Maybe too much. Well EN clean up the corner, clean up the 41 and then come back and turn back the 5. Gosh darn it. Look at the way that subdivision is. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Look at those census blocks the way they are. MR. MELROSE: Yeah ridiculous. Okay. So surrender the corner then. You know the Komohana corner, 41 and 106, let that go back to 3. That should make it, that and 640 and 176. Yeah there you go. And 176. Okay. 3 is still a little high. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Another 150 people out of 3. MR. KANUHA: Can some of 3 go into the Puna, what's that, 4 or 5? There, 4 MR. MELROSE: Try above the road; above 11. Is there any population there? On the left side of the road, left side of the highway, is there anything there? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No. MR. KANUHA: Are we adding to 5 or to 4? MR. MELROSE: We're adding to 5. Five's okay. MR. KANUHA: I thought we were adding to 4. MR. MELROSE: Well we can add to 5 too, it doesn't make - - -5 still got space there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Can't add much more to 5. MR. MELROSE: 3 is still a little high. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Excuse me madam chair, if we stay right where we were and 3, the higher part of 3 that's alongside Shipman, and put that back into 4, no right up here on the line up here to the highway, Railroad Avenue, this diagonal, right where D3 is now and that diagonal line back into 4. That's Puna but it hasn't changed any numbers because there's nothing there. MR. MELROSE: So you gotta take Kea`au town. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can't do that Shyla. MS. POINDEXTER: Why can't you do that? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can't leave-- - MR. KANUHA: If you take the town it's gonna add another what - - -Can you zoom into the town Shyla and see what's the population in the blocks? 47 CHR. SIRACUSA: Wait a second, you've got an island that has to - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: We're just looking at it ma'am. 1301 Oh it's Highway 130. CHR. SIRACUSA: It's the Bypass running straight up and down there. MR. KANUHA: So there's about 500, 550 people? Yeah that's why. Just try and put that whole thing into 4. CHR. SIRACUSA: Four is a little bit over now isn't it? MR. KANUHA: Can you pull up the districts? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It takes 4 over. MR. KANUHA: But not by that much. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: But 4 is over by -- -It's about 10/12 votes, 10/12 people over. CHR. SIRACUSA: But you can put them into 5. Where it says 43; right there. Oh, 45. Excuse me. I didn't have my glasses on. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: It splits the town. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Go back and undo all of that Kea`au stuff and let's look at - - -Go further out where 3 and 5 come together. Too much. Okay. Now go out and look to the left and see where - -- What's along Stainback Highway? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Bushes. Contaminated land. MR. MELROSE: Go back and maybe if we see a bigger piece it just might give us better idea what our options are. CHR. SIRACUSA: What happens in that little piece of 3 that sticks into 6 there? Where does Stainback end anyway? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Stainback ends at Milani; the driveway into Milani Prison. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We can put a few from 3 back into 2 and do it that way. CHR. SIRACUSA: Numbers -wise we could. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Go back up to 3 and 2 where we have all those jogs. What do we got there? To your left there; that's too many people. What's the block with the 176. Where is that Jeff? MR. MELROSE: Yeah. But you look the way it is, it just cuts the middle of a subdivision. It's along Komohana. It's just such an ugly boundary for the residents. It doesn't make sense. MR. KANUHA: I had a question of why couldn't 5 grab some of 3? You know like in that little arm part. Oh, not 5 but 4. See right inside there? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It makes 4 too big. MR. KANUHA: No but we grab that whole section. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well one big chunk of it has nobody in it. The Bypass. That's all Ag. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The problem is this. You see where the 339 people are? That crosses the Bypass. It's not a clean census block and so it crosses over the Bypass and then you lose your connectivity stuff I mean it's that kind of an issue too. MR. MELROSE: Yeah. There are too many votes there huh? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Too many people, yeah. It's these crazy shapes. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well we have a couple of places where communities are on two sides of the road and you lose connectivity when you try to keep them together. MR. MELROSE: Madam Chair. I'm a little concerned that Bo said he was going to go at 3:30 p.m., and I'd like to run on that side to make sure he gets what you need Bo on your side and you can get your Kona stuff thinking and let's get back to this ponder later. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. I have no problem with that. Let's do that and accommodate Bo. MR. KAHUL I appreciate that. I think you know when looking at the overall island plan I think Mike's revision kinda hits it on the nose with respect to Plan B, Alternate Plan 1.11 underscore 6. But, and I appreciate the opportunity to now revisit our section. I'd like to look at the north end real quick, and to consider the implication if we put Puak6 in. If Puak6 is in? I can't tell from the map so if we can just move closer into that district. Yeah, so Puak6 is in District 9 correct? Alright, and then the Waikoloa Villages, if in fact it's in District 9, I think we would have hit two of my three biggest concerns. Are we okay with that, Joe? MR. CARVALHO: Yes. Waikoloa. I'm working on that -- we are assuming that Waikoloa will be with 9 and also Puak6. MR. MELROSE: Bo, 8 now has Waiki`i which is neither here nor there really. It's not a big number but um that's a new change just to keep you abreast of that. MR. KAHUL Yeah and we would yield to the Commission as a whole to move Waiki`i in either District 9 or keep it in District 8 in order to make the numbers work. Because - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It has to stay in 8. MS. POINDEXTER: Why does it have to stay in 8? CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Bo. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: To make the numbers work. MR. KAHUL Yeah okay. So having said that then, we would keep it in 8 at this time to make the numbers work. MR. MELROSE: That's right. Let's revisit that but let's make sure your other lines are okay. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yeah. Cause 8 is low. MR. CARVALHO: Bo, I just — I would rather have that one in 8. I don't think there's that big of a population. We can look at it later. MARGARET WIL,LE: Yeah. They worked on that last time and it doesn't work. It should stay in 8. That's exactly what they worked on. MR. KAHUL If I might just make a comment though. We did in a previous attempt to move Waiki`i out, it didn't help our numbers. But I would be resigned to the Commission as a whole and with the support of Joe and Dru to move the district or that Waiki`i community in either 9 or 8 that best suits - -again we're not - -and as much as we're trying to accommodate communities of interest this is one situation where we might be resigned to saying okay, we may have to look at the numbers and try to make that work, for the whole island. This is a whole island issue I think. MS. POINDEXTER: Bo? MR. KAHUL Secondly, I - -- MS. POINDEXTER: Oh. Go ahead. MR. KAHUL Yeah? MS. POINDEXTER: I would just want to remind Margaret Wille that this is a conversation for the Commission now and the public had their time earlier so her comments - -- 50 MR. KAHUL Understood. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. Thank you. MR. KAHUL Understood, understood. And you know we do have members of the public here and you know they are voicing their concerns, but I'm voicing as a commissioner, I'm voicing my concerns. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. But I just want to remind you `cause here someone here in the audience also wanted to voice their concern and we did not allow it because it's the commissioners now discussion. It's not for them to be inputting. There were several people asking, "Well can I give you a handwritten note" or "can I say something ?" and we didn't accept that. So we would want the same for Kona to respect that also please. MR. KAHUL Duly noted. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you Val. MR. KANUHA: And Bo, this is Dru too. Every time she does say something to you we can all hear it on the Hilo side. Just an FYI. MR. KAHUL Okay. Thank you. MR. MELROSE: So can I - - -Are you gonna move on down to the lower side of that district? MR. KAHUL I would like to now look at the southern boundary between Dru and I you know. Once again, Dru and I have this belief that we have two seats in Kona. North Kona and South Kona, District 7 and 8. So, I think when you look at the business district in District 7 I'm okay with that. When we look at the new urbanization of Kealakehe and Kealaolu it should be in District 8 as it is right now. And then when we go and have that mauka /makai connection, I'm really happy with the way this map has turned out. I'd like to yield to Dru at this time to see if the numbers look good as well as whether these boundaries are appropriate for our, both our districts. MR. KANUHA: This is Dru. Yep. I mean we worked on this the last time and we did-- - How it's appropriate right now and how it looks in the north part of Kailua and in the business district then making that part of District 7 was okay with me. Shyla, could you move towards the place where it takes out that neighborhood? I just wanted to look at it a little bit more closer to make sure that... if that boundary is alright. Because it does follow Hualalai Road. That neighborhood is part of town. Town as in Kailua town, but for that boundary to happen and to make the numbers keep it the way they are, it seems a pretty good line between District 7 and District 8. I'm really fine with how this boundary is looking. 51 MR. MELROSE: What is that little end there down by the 77? Is that a - - -You know, at the very corner? MR. KANUHA: Oh yeah. Take a look at that 77. Go a little up. The hook. You might want to add that in. MR. MELROSE: Well that's the Regency right? Yeah that's good. MR. KANUHA: Yeah that is the Regency. That's the retirement; not retirement, but CHR. SIRACUSA: Well the numbers are still okay on both sides. MR. KANUHA: It's a good — MR. KAHUL Again I think - - -I comment that keeping the Kona business district in one or the district 7 or 8 makes a lot of sense and um then at this point I would yield to the other commissioners and then also with respect to Dru I appreciate your input and as far as I'm concerned I think we're settled on our districts. Globally I think that when you look at it we got two seats in Kona. They represent the business district and we represent an urban sort of expansion district. And then of course eliminating, not eliminating but moving Puak6 and also Waikoloa to 9 helps to keep the fabric of our communities of interest intact. Thank you. MR. KANUHA: Thank you Bo, this is Dru again. Both 7 and 8, District 7 and District 8 both encompass now North Kona — what is North Kona. District 6 encompasses all of South Kona into that Ka`u /Volcano district. Just to let everybody know that — the boundary between 6 and 7 is like a — pretty much close to a South Kona/North Kona boundary. Well not that whole thing but the actual boundary between where people live. CHR. SIRACUSA: Did you want to do any jiggling around there - where all the squiggles are? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Can't because of the census blocks. MR. MELROSE: What do the overall numbers look like now? We have 3 a little high. CHR. SIRACUSA: 3 is high. MR. MELROSE: 5. 2 and 3. CHR. SIRACUSA: 3 is high and everything else is within an acceptable range. MR. MELROSE: So our low, or just take a look at that though. Our growth regions are really 4 and 5. Between them we could actually balance - - -I don't know if you could balance out 4 or 5. But then uh, put it back up please. And then the North Kona district is 52 8 and that's low and that's where it should be. 7, yeah I guess that should be low. District I is low. Okay. MR. KANUHA: Well in this particular map District 7 didn't really have much room to play between 6 and 8 because all of `em were low so I couldn't really move the lines either way without impacting the other district surrounding District 7. But saying that, these lines that are within District 7 are to me feel reasonable. MR. MELROSE: Okay. And that kinda squiggly line down there at the end around Kealakekua, is there something we could do to uh --- There's one protrusion in there. Is that just an empty road? CHR. SIRACUSA: I was wondering if we could neaten that up without major affecting the numbers. MR. KANUHA: It would affect the numbers pretty much. MR. MELROSE: What about that little thing that hangs down there in the middle. Is that just a roadway? MR. KANUHA: It's one of those census blocks that if you add it, it will go all the way up here. MR. MELROSE: Sure? No. Look. It's got a - - -Try it. MR. KANUHA: Okay, I'll show you. Shyla can you add that bottom one into 6. Not that. Oh that? Oh. I thought you were talking about that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There's nobody in there. MR. KANUHA: No. There's nobody in there. CHR. SIRACUSA: It just looks neater in our compactness. MR. MELROSE: Yes, right. And if you go up to the top there's also a little piece there that you can clean up. MS. POINDEXTER: Nice lines. MR. MELROSE: Just one. MR. KANUHA: Yeah. Let's just keep on going on the boundary to make sure. MR. MELROSE: 3 is the only one that looks high. We can actually adjust that. MR. KANUHA: Yeah that's good. No, just leave it. 53 MR. MELROSE: Give us the district boundaries one more time. So it's just 3 we have to do a 3 and 2 or 3 and 4 adjustment. See, one and nine you could actually both, well there's some range in them. You could readjust that boundary if you wanted to. MR. CARVALHO: That's right. 1 and 9; yeah. MR. MELROSE: So I think you should take over and do one and 9 and see what you can do in 1 and 9. MR. CARVALHO: Okay. Val, let's go up to 1 and 9. MS. POINDEXTER: Before we go up to 1 and 9 I think we should look at Linda Ugalde's area, the district, if it's cutting, not splitting Volcano before we get up to that area. She already-- - MR. MELROSE: Is that right. Right there Linda it looks like you get Akatsuka? MS. UGALDE: Yeah, okay. CHR. SIRACUSA: I think what we need to do though is just look at the makai side of Highway 11 over there and see if there's anybody living over there that should be in with Volcano. MR. MELROSE: Makai side of Highway 11. CHR. SIRACUSA: The census block population. MR. MELROSE: There? That's Kahaolea. CHR. SIRACUSA: Oh so there's nobody in Kahaolea. I just wanted to double check that. MR. MELROSE: Okay. Doesn't have to be bigger. Just as a thought. The bigger you make it now, the more vote you have in the Volcano. The more clout you get in the Ka`u district. So you can hold it because you don't want to make it any bigger but if you do make it - -- MS. UGALDE: But this is all National Park but - -- MR. MELROSE: No. I'm saying you could grow it some. You could grow it into Puna. You could add to the Volcano presence. MS. UGALDE: Oh I see what you're saying. We can go down, it would just depend where to stop yeah? As long as it's both sides of the road. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have however had testimony from Fern Forest people and they - -- 54 MR. MELROSE: Go in right close to it to make sure cause I think that splits down Royal Hawaiian Subdivision so just -- -What does it do to houses on two sides or - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: That's Fern Forest. We don't want to chop pieces off of Fern Forest. MR. MELROSE: If you go in close does that - - -Oh okay. So that's Royal Hawaiian Boulevard, is that what it's called? And that's a known boundary for the community. Is there a subdivision boundary there? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MS. UGALDE: I think Fern Forest boundary and Royal Hawaiian Estates. MR. MELROSE: Okay. MR. MELROSE: Anybody from Puna have a different view on that? Is that the boundary between those two? MR. CARVALHO: Shyla can we go up to Waiki`i. I just want to see the population there. Verify it. MR. MELROSE: You know my sense is Waiki`i by its nature is really a satellite of Waimea; if you can get there without undoing the numbers. MR. CARVALHO: Let's take a look what happened to District 8. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah, `cause it will affect District 8 and then we can pull from - -- MR. KANUHA: Not from District 7. MS. POINDEXTER: Not pull from 7 but what I'm saying is - -- MR. MELROSE: That's good. CHR. SIRACUSA: We can always undo. You're still okay number wise. MR. KAHUL Aloha this is Bo. MR. MELROSE: Is that alright Bo? MR. KAHUL I haven't left yet so as you guys look at those -- -That district boundary I just want to ensure that if we do move Waiki`i and I'm in support of that to 9, just because we tried to work the numbers out, are we okay with the numbers? MR. MELROSE: Yes. It's okay, yeah. 55 CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. And we weren't trying to do anything behind your back Bo. MR. KAHUL No, no, no, no. I know that. CHR. SIRACUSA: We weren't waiting till you left and then change everything. MR. KAHUL I just wanted to let -- -And I've given the Commission that point that you could. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla. That last thing you put in there have no people in `em so you can take them back out. MR. MELROSE: Thank you Bo. MR. KAHUL So I'm in support of you know just getting to the right apportionment for the island as a whole and if in fact putting Waiki`i with Waimea based on its communities of interest I support that just as long as we again, our North Kona district 8 is you know, it meets its deviation and so on. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Alright. Thank you and we hear you loud and clear on that. MR. MELROSE: I would just leave that line the way it is. That's actually the first and second increment of Waiki`i is in that district and nobody's living there yet, or maybe there's one new house going into it but, I would clean up the edge there see where it kinda sticks up around where Saddle Road comes down to the other highway, there is a straight line there that you can take and just to clean it up; down to the intersection of Saddle Road and the Mamalahoa Highway. Yeah, just clean - - -See the straight line right there, come to the straight line. CHR. SIRACUSA: The numbers still work. MR. CARVALHO: Shyla could we move up to Puako? Go down closer. Go to the Kona side; both sides of the road. Okay, right there. MR. MELROSE: Just for the sake of description you could actually take the Mauna Lani Drive piece and put it into 9, yeah just north of that so you can describe it "going down Mauna Lani Drive." MR. CARVALHO: Right. It looks better. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We need to get that little piece in there. MR. MELROSE: On the ocean? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, the one right along the highway. 56 MR. MELROSE: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. MR. CARVALHO: So D8 looks good yet on the numbers right? MR. MELROSE: Yes. MR. CARVALHO: Okay let's go up to Waimea, and close -up on Mamalahoa Highway. MR. MELROSE: You can keep back all the Hawaiian Homes in that area. You could take back; go back out a little bit. We are splitting uh - -- Is that Pu`ukapu? MR. CARVALHO: That's Pu`ukapu, yeah. MR. MELROSE: Yeah but we gotta look at are we splitting Puukapu? CHR. SIRACUSA: Valerie if you're gonna speak, please turn your mic on. MS. POINDEXTER: So we gotta move out of - - -We gotta take little bit more of Waimea cause I wanted to - - -I think this one is on White Road eh? MR. CARVALHO: No, that's on Pu`unani now. It's in the gulch that splits .... MS. POINDEXTER: You sure it's on Pu`unani? I thought it's on White Road. Here's White Road. It's White Road. MR. MELROSE: Oh on that side of the road. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. So if we go into - -- Remember I wanted to go further into where Pu`unani is and that two little small little areas. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: On the south side of the highway. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. So we gotta get - - -If you scroll little further down but no I mean, yeah if we pull `em down. There we go. Pulling Pu`unani and that Iokua Place and then there's a small - - -I was just going to push in this whole block right there, in — into — oh no we stay at twenty already. Oh, we're okay. Oh okay, we're okay, we're at twenty. MR. MELROSE: Waimea could - - -I wouldn't do that. MR. CARVALHO: I wouldn't do that. MR. MELROSE: Because actually right now you're on a gulch line and not a street that you split down the street. You split down a gulch line. You could recover some, Waimea could recover some, 9 could recover a little bit more - -- 57 MR. CARVALHO: I would say we could almost go back to White Road. MR. MELROSE: Uh, not on that side of the road. MR. KAHUL I support that. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah but, I was - - -I know that um they're supporting - - -I know Waikoloa wants that also, however, like I was saying if we wanna strengthen Waimea's voice if they were concerned about Waimea not having a voice for the last ten years because it was Lakeland and a little bit of that people, I was wanting to grow Waimea a little bit more so they would have a stronger voice. And they're all in that like I said the commonality. They're the rural people. They're the countryside and the rural people are in that area. MR. CARVALHO: I see that we are splitting even more, splitting Waimea even more and now I would imagine they gonna really have a voice after this commission. Seeing what has gone on, how Waikoloa really spoke up. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah but Waikoloa spoke up for them to come into Waimea to be able to split Waimea. Now, we heard this morning from Mr. Sanderson that you know Waimea's people who have not been able to come out is because they are the working class and they are not here to voice their opinion so he came to advocate on their behalf that they wanted to be more of Waimea. Put Lakeland and all them back into Waimea which would have split Waikoloa. Right? MR. CARVALHO: Right, right. I agree. MS. POINDEXTER: So what I was suggesting is that because they felt that Lakeland and that small little piece of the outskirts of Waimea that was thrown into District 1 for the last ten years had no voice. And the power is in the number of people. So if you strengthen Waimea they have more power or say in District 1 versus leaving it as a status quo where for ten years they're complaining they had no representation. That's - - -I don't know if you understand my point. MR. CARVALHO: I, no I'm getting your point. Okay I understand you have been, you saying that the people on that side have more in common with the Hamakua people. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. MR. CARVALHO: But what I am saying is I'd like to see Waimea stay as much together as possible. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. m MR. CARVALHO: And hopefully from this lesson on advocating, they would speak up again for the next redistricting or they would at least go to their representative councilman and speak up. MS. POINDEXTER: But their councilman was District 1. So they couldn't go to Pete Hoffman who advocated strongly on behalf of his area which is Waikoloa and up that way. So what I heard this morning from Sanderson, oh Sanborn, Sanborn, what -- -Those people are the working class people that are not able to come to our meetings and cannot afford to do what Waikoloa did to come out on a work day and be able to come and testify and come in numbers, and they are our working class people. They don't have a voice. MR. CARVALHO: Well. Okay I understand that Val. And it's not only because that they are working class people. I mean you know they could easily sent in a hundred emails if they were organized and you know, got together they could have done at least email testimony. Or have a representative - -- MS. POINDEXTER: Right. But what I'm saying is they're so small, that little outskirts of Waimea, it's hard to have them organize as a small little part of Waimea to come and help organize. I didn't see all of Waimea the Waimea Community Association people over there advocating for all of their Waimea and their CDP people. The CDP plan which they talk so highly about and says that it has an important role in this redistricting was okay to throw out the outskirts of Waimea. All I'm saying is they are saying they need a voice. I'm saying take a little bit more so that they have a stronger voice. Because who's gonna now advocate on their behalf or do the community organizing like Waikoloa did. Waikoloa had people in their district that were well - groomed, very well - groomed in organizing, community organizing. The poor - - -The people out there on the outskirts, those rural people, they didn't have that benefit of having people in their community to know how to do community organizing so their voice could be heard. We heard that for ten years they struggled without any representation. So that's just my point. I'm looking at the - - -For everybody. And how could we make that voice stronger for them. CHR. SIRACUSA: How many people are we talking about in Lakeland? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Well, it's not just Lakeland; it's a fair amount of Waimea. It's almost as many people as are in Honoka`a. MR. CARVALHO: It's about 2,000 I believe. 2,036 people. You know Val I cannot see how moving them to District 1 is gonna make - -- You're saying they're gonna be more organized or they're gonna have more voice, a stronger voice if we have more people, but you know, you can just, you know, there's 8,000 people in Waikoloa and how much of them came out? Eighty? You know, so if you get two or three people advocating for an area, speak for an area, they could. MS. POINDEXTER: Well it hasn't happened for ten years. That's what I'm hearing from the Waimea people. You know. We're doing the tango right now. We talked about dancing. Right now it's a love /hate; you know the dance, the tango. We'll get to the waltz 59 in a minute. But, I'm advocating on actually, believe it or not, I'm advocating for those people in Waimea who are on the outskirts because they for ten years said they had no representation. And I know that the number of people creates the power and how you can organize. The amount of people that speak up and when you give them Pu`unani and all, you have -- right - -what I'm saying is the representative - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, Valerie. You're saying and you're saying. Let's see what you, how you want it on the map. Guide Shyla. Let's see what you want on the map. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. I would say take up to Pu`unani. CHR. SIRACUSA: And then we can look at it and see if it's viable. MR. CARVALHO: That's what you want right there. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No. The ones below the highway, Shyla. Below the highway. That's a residential subdivision. MR. KANUHA: That's a residential subdivision. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: And below the highway you've got rural. MS. POINDEXTER: I wanna grow Waimea's representation in District 1. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What I find ironic about this is that I got all kinds of static for wanting to take a little bit of Honoka`a into District 9. Now you're taking more people out of Waimea than live in Honoka`a. Now I don't get it. MS. POINDEXTER: I'm talking about what Waimea's people were saying about the injustice of them not having a voice. And all I'm doing is trying to strengthen their voice. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You know, but all I'm saying is what I'm hearing from this morning's testimony and from calls that I have gotten from people in Lakeland, from the testimony we heard in Waimea. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair? MR. CARVALHO: I heard the same thing. But you and I have a different approach. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Uh, madam Chair, can I - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Are we waltzing yet? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair can I have a - - -Can I direct a question to Valerie? M CHR. SIRACUSA: Please. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Val, you're trying to grow the voice of Waimea into District 1. Is that correct? MS. POINDEXTER: Yes. I'm trying to grow more people that they could have a voice and forces District 1 representative and District 9 representative to work together; because for the past ten years they have not been working together. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: 1 and 9 you say have not been working together. Okay, I just needed that, you know, I needed that analogy made because that's how I'm hearing you say District 9 representative has been - -- MS. POINDEXTER: Has not helped; he has not um, well maybe with the CDP plan or whatever he did but - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A Am I to understand that was uh, Councilman Hoffman? MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah. District 1 said they had no representation. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And then District 1 was uh? MS. POINDEXTER: I mean the Lakeland area; the outskirts of Waimea said they had no representation from the District 1 County Council person. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: This was County Council Yagong. MS. POINDEXTER: Yes. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And the other representative was uh, Hoffman? MS. POINDEXTER: Hoffman. So - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And we're gonna grow them into the same areas right now? MS. POINDEXTER: And force them to work together. When Hoffman said this morning that we have the responsibility of changing how politics are done for the next ten years, I just don't want the outskirts of Waimea again to be status quo and not have the same representation. I mean - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And that could be based on uh? MS. POINDEXTER: Based on what they were saying. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: New council district during the votes? 61 MR. MELROSE: Madam, madam. CHR. SIRACUSA: Excuse me. I just wanna say that there's another way of looking at what you're trying to do Val and here I am playing devil's advocate and that is that you're trying to get more District 9 people to go into District 1 and become disenfranchised. MS. POINDEXTER: If you talk about disenfranchised Waimea has been Waimea for generations. Waikoloa was a development that happened. But Waikoloa was okay to come in to Waimea to cut part of Waimea off MR. KAHUL Aloha this is Bo. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes Bo please, give us some input. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: You still here? MR. KAHUL Yes I'm still here. I'm listening to the conversation, I am about to depart but before I do I think we go back to all of our comments made at the beginning of the stage, the stage to establish this new map about what the consensus was and what is our priorities. And so for me, I think uh, and between myself, District 9, and District 7, District 8 is comfortable with the western sort of boundaries that have been established by this map. But as we, as you proceed on and as much as I was supposed to leave I am a little concerned about how now we've deviated from some of the earlier statements made by each commissioner about what was important about the whole island as a whole. So, I leave with you the idea that um, if we could you know, work together on these boundaries that I think was well established at the time we began this process today and hopefully we can come to terms between these new District 9 and 1, that will help their districts both politically and economically and socially, as well as through its own communities of interest. So, I appreciate that, I apologize I have to leave and I shall see you at the next meeting. Any questions? CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Thank you Bo. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. So for now, I'm gonna waltz. Okay. I'm gonna do this waltz for you because we still have time to; this is gonna be a draft anyway, okay? Because I wanna hear - -this is still gonna be a draft when we go out to the - -to give this to the people. We still have time to tweak it after that. We go out to the public, correct? Correct? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MR. CARVALHO: I understand this to be the final draft. MS. POINDEXTER: This will be the final draft. CHR. SIRACUSA: But still a draft. 62 MS. POINDEXTER: Right. Okay, so - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Because when we go out to the public hearings we will then come back and take input on whatever plan we put before the public and do any final tweaking. And our final, final drop dead date is November 30tH MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. So this is what I'm willing to do. I'm willing to waltz with you now. Okay? I'm willing to leave the thing at White Road until I hear from the people in Waimea how they feel for the next ten years. Because I'm not only - - -My job here is not only advocating for District 1 and being - - -And hogging and putting Honoka`a and giving them - - -But looking at what is in the best interest because I hear that they need representation from the District 1 person. But, their voices are not being heard. So right now I'll waltz with you and I would wanna go to the district, between District 1 and 2 and look at that boundary again, please. MR. MELROSE: Wait, wait, wait, wait. You expanded, I wanna make sure we're fixed on this because we did go to Pu`unani and you can see by this image how really that splits up this subdivision pretty oddly. If you're gonna get in then you gotta go back to where we were before which was up at - - -Up a stream. MS. POINDEXTER: Right. You mean by-- -Yeah, take off.... MR. MELROSE: It's not White Road though. White Road is still a mile to the other side. This is up Pu`unani Subdivision. MS. POINDEXTER: I would say take out Pu`unani right now, subdivision. MR. MELROSE: Can you take it all out? You can take those; that's where we were when we started. Now if you're gonna take it out you gotta go pick up about three. Yeah, you can do that. You can go back. You can go back to White Road. MS. POINDEXTER: Yeah and I'm okay with doing that until I hear from the Waimea people also on that side. Because like they said, they've struggled for ten years. Okay. So then go to the boundary between 1 and 2 and I'd like to- - -Back to the river to make sure that it's - -- MR. MELROSE: That's where it is. MS. POINDEXTER: It is still on the river? MR. MELROSE: It's on the river where we were but it's not to White Road. If you want to get to White Road you gotta go - -- MS. POINDEXTER: Oh, oh, okay. But I wanna put back the one between 1 and 9 to White Road so that right now. 63 MR. MELROSE: Oh yeah, we can. Can we? MS. POINDEXTER: Can we? MR. MELROSE: I dunno. MS. POINDEXTER: If we can, I dunno; going drop the numbers. Because my thing is - -- MR. MELROSE: Go back to the highway Shyla. MS. POINDEXTER: Because my thing is, I'm not gonna go into Hilo when the commonalities are more moving into Waimea. MR. MELROSE: Yeah. Right. Okay, so. MR. CARVALHO: That's a good point. I agree with you; definitely. MS. POINDEXTER: Thank you. We're waltzing now. MR. MELROSE: I think it's an awful lot to go back to White Road cause that's - -- You're over a thousand votes and you will be under represented in D1. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Right. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay. MR. MELROSE: So I think that's as far as, that's about where you go. Or, you can come back in to the next; even 520. It's just going to cut you down low so - -- MS. POINDEXTER: Can we see the district? MR. MELROSE: Try. Just run that line straight up, pick up those three little pyramids there; the three purple ones. No out in the orange. Go back to 9. That's what you're saying right? Take that straight line, yeah. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Might go over. MR. MELROSE: What do the numbers look like? MS. POINDEXTER: And that's where the problem is. Because now 1 is too small, and I gotta go crawl into Hilo. That's not what we wanna do. MR. CARVALHO: We definitely don't want that. MR. MELROSE: Okay, take it back. Just take it back. One more. Alright. That's where we were. Any interest in taking those little 24, 12, 14 and 30 just to create a stage step rather than a - -- MR. CARVALHO: A giant leap? MR. MELROSE: Yeah, and that little cut -away there. MR. CARVALHO: Yeah. Let's do that. MR. MELROSE: 24, 12, 16 and 30. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Those are rural areas rather than residential. MR. MELROSE: Yeah. Right. And they're kinda --- That's the one Shyla. Yeah. That's Hawaiian Homes. Okay. You wanna go back to the other side? We still good? Back to Hilo. We need to adjust; it's 3 that we need to make an adjustment on right? MR. KANUHA: 3 is high. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: How do you get into Pi`ihonua? MR. MELROSE: It's a - - -We took care of that. It's one of those clean -up issues, but you know, the summit of Mauka Kea is actually part of the moku of Hamakua and it just - - -In this, because there's no population in it, I would just feel better to me that the summit portion of Mauna Kea was part of the Hamakua region cause it's part of that district. But right now we took the summit and turned it into part of the Hilo area. Not that it's a big deal. So Mike the difference here between 2 and 3, we've gotta drop about - - -How many votes to get out of - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What's in that shoulder? CHR. SIRACUSA: Just a little over a hundred has to be shed from 3. So, we could go into 2. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, up in the shoulder in the residential area - -- MR. MELROSE: What's the shoulder? CHR. SIRACUSA: Please Mike. The mic Mike. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I'm sorry. Up to the left, right above where you are, right in that area there. Zoom in on that. Let's look at those. MR. MELROSE: That's tricky. See how the census tracts don't follow population though. 65 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: They sure don't. MR. MELROSE: I would say a way to ease this out is to take - - -Go along the Waiakea Houselots; and you know right now we're losing Kalaniana`ole as a - - -I mean Kekdanao`a as the boundary. Yeah, just move to like, not to Manono but to one of those streets in - -- Just take a line. I don't think you have to go that far. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Look at that. Let's see. MR. MELROSE: We gotta do it the other way. We have to take - - -2 has to take 3. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Right. MR. MELROSE: Okay. So, if it's at the - - -We already got Naniloa huh? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Do we? Yeah. MR. MELROSE: Okay. Where's a hundred now? There's no population on that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, there's no population there. MR. MELROSE: Go up, yeah, a little more, some more. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It's only underneath that you get any people. MR. MELROSE: So we came up Puainako right? What can we do along Puainako? A little higher Shyla. No the other way. What is that? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What's that jog there? MR. MELROSE: It's in the district. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That's Puainako. MR. MELROSE: Okay, keep going out on that boundary and we're just looking for a hundred votes right? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: A hundred people. MR. MELROSE: A hundred residents. Keep following the boundary. Is there a unit, a clean unit somewhere? Keep going. CHR. SIRACUSA: What about that little corner there on the far left? MR. MELROSE: There's ten of it. That's Kawailani, right? Where Kawailani makes the turn? Is that... is that Puainako? .. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That's Hukalau. Yeah, you can take - -- MR. MELROSE: Go some more. Oh we've got 716 in there. That's a monster. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: They're big. That's the problem. Come down. Well wait a minute, Shyla, right where the hand is, drill in right there. Now, move it up a little. No the other way, yeah. CHR. SIRACUSA: 1073 and 261. MR. MELROSE: That's a drainage way isn't it? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There's a block there with two people and then right below it is another block with 112. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Excuse me. You know uh — Kaneki, you're coming around the turn right? Kaneki off of Kupulau? It's in another district but the only way to get to it is to come off of Kupulau. Is that what we want to do? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yeah. Up there. MR. MELROSE: At least take the 10. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Take the 10, start with that. Now drop down where that ragged edge is where the 2 are. You can take those. Now then, that's Ainaola. You can take-- - You see the block with the 112? MR. MELROSE: Looking closely cause I bet you that's a funny --- Waiakea Uka Park? It doesn't really split anybody up does it? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No. That's where the church is, New Hope. It's in that block. Click on that one, the one with the 112 where the thing is; right there. Well that does the numbers. MR. MELROSE: That does the numbers. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can't take that other one cause its got 800 people in it. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. The numbers work. MR. MELROSE: The only other way to do that would be to go back up to near the Naniloa and I think there's a - - -Oh, that's an idea too, yeah. But there's not many at Naniloa. Go to Naniloa. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No residents. No people there. 67 MR. MELROSE: There's some there. MR. KAHAWAIOLA` A: But you gotta take the - -- MR. MELROSE: See that? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Oh yeah. MR. MELROSE: But it's a funny one. It goes all the way down the harbor. But is not a - -- You could hit that 140. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The one that says 148? MR. MELROSE: And then it goes all the way to the harbor. And then you could take-- - What is that; there's another one in the corner in the industrial. Let's see what that looks like. Well then, pick up the other one because there's a little piece in there that's industrial. It's just the harbor. And then pick up the corner on Verna's and then I think we got it. It just cleans it up. So now we're on Kalaniana`ole and I'd come back to the harbor and take where the gas tanks are. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Go over and look; move everything over to the left there. Yeah, that one; that piece right there. That's the oil companies. MR. MELROSE: We can go back and take out that kind of odd piece in the back of Waiakea. Let's go back to where you were in Waiakea. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That's ugly. Can we take that part off there, back to the - -where you were at a - -you know I'm looking, there's a couple condos in here right? MR. MELROSE: That's where the number we were looking for. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That's the condo. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yeah. That's the ones down by where Bay Clinic used to be. Those are those rental units. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right, that two -story building. Not the tall one further down. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Is that alright Patrick? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: It could be because of the configuration in uh- -where now - -one side's the harbor. The green side where that long strip is, that's the breakwater. So the harbor is on the left and the harbor is also on the right. MR. MELROSE: The purple is the breakwater, the green is the pier. .: MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: The green's the pier but there's also a pier on the other side too. I mean that's Palikai on the other side. That's DOT. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If you take the piece on the other side of the breakwater and you take the beach park, there aren't any people in there. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That's too far. I would prefer if the - - -and the only reason I say it is because the harbor connects the community. You know, it connects the community down here. MR. MELROSE: This isn't gonna stop that but it's a "look" issue and I defer to you on that topic. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would prefer that the original that you had back to Kanoelehua, the top of Kanoelehua, come around the 76 station. Then if you took the Banyan side that you had. Yeah. I'd prefer - - -I think we good. MR. MELROSE: I can live with that. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And then the only other portion would be the satisfaction of the Kea`au side. Kea`au and between 4 and 3. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, so let's head down into that direction then. We're moving into the home stretch folks. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I think we ought to take the unpopulated area there in 4 into 3. The macadamia nut. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Yeah. Then you don't have this thing of looking like you really throwing Kea`au out somewhere. MR. MELROSE: In other words pull it up to the boundary of HPP? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Well yeah. Because you don't split it but you — you know we've come to that. MR. MELROSE: It looks alright. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Can you take 3 down to the northern boundary of HPP. You gotta leave that one block on the left side there because there are people in it. CHR. SIRACUSA: Alright. Shower is that line but the cross streets aren't shown on the map and they go a little further and they do have people. Shyla, that little cluster; yeah that little cluster can go into 3. .• MR. MELROSE: That's an Ag field yeah? CHR. SIRACUSA: Just for neatening it up yeah? No, that's over. Okay. Undo. So 3 has to shed. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: 3 is back over. MR. MELROSE: How did that happen? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There's people in that. CHR. SIRACUSA: Cause when we took it all the way up to the Puna boundary there, we went too far there. MR. MELROSE: Can you just go down that edge of HPP in a way we can see if there's-- - Maybe it's out at Kalole Point that that population shows up. CHR. SIRACUSA: If you look where Shower is you see there are little houses along there even though the street lines don't extend and that's very misleading. That definitely has to be in 4. MR. MELROSE: So go down to Kalole Point. Is that - - -No it's not. Okay. Don't know where they came from. Where did that 49 come from? Well, you could back off 49 into 79 and you know. It doesn't make any sense that there's population there. Well you know, there are some people down in Haena right? I know Shipman, but there's also some family homes. I mean some old caretaker homes and other people who live at Haena. CHR. SIRACUSA: That's the Shipman compound. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, before you save it, take out those two blocks that have 49 and 79. Put them back in 4 and see what happens. CHR. SIRACUSA: No, put it into 4 Shyla. MR. MELROSE: Are the numbers alright? CHR. SIRACUSA: No, 3 is high. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: No, but I'm looking where it's coming out. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What did we take that had so many people in it? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yeah, right there. MR. MELROSE: That's a half mile camp or 8 mile camp. In don't know which is. 70 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There are 3 of 4 small census blocks there, right where it says D3. Why don't we go up and use Kea`au Road as the - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: As the break. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Break. See where Kea`au Road is there Shyla? MR. MELROSE: The camp's still there, the houses still there. When the plantation let go they sold it to the hui, and then the hui subdivided; the camps actually survived. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: The break between 3 and 4. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Take those blocks with the people in them to the left. MR. MELROSE: You gotta get the rest of that camp though. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Kea`au Road is out to Haena right? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yeah. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Okay, let's go out to there. Yeah. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That's a good natural boundary. MR. KAHAWAIOLAA: Yeah. MR. MELROSE: You gotta take the rest of the camp Shyla. The little 8 -1/2 mile camp; Polokea. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There's two people there. MR. MELROSE: That's two. Go figure. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Who lives out there? MR. MELROSE: There's two little pieces right there. Yeah. right there. Are we right yet? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: There's four, yep. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Bingo. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Right there. 71 CHR. SIRACUSA: The numbers work now. Oh, we lost our connection. Okay, we're gonna take a recess. RECESS: At 4:10 p.m. the Chair called for a recess. RECONVENE The meeting was reconvened at 4:15 p.m. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, everyone take their places. I feel like the teacher here; alright students, take your places. MR. MELROSE: Are we going to take one more pass at this? CHR. SIRACUSA: We never got down to the bottom of Puna on this one, so I just want to take a quick look there and see how that Highway 130 boundary lines up in terms of road connectivity. MR. MELROSE: Just think about that line as it comes down in to Kalapana. Right now Kalapana is on both sides of it and if you pull it in a little bit, Kalapana stays as a whole. If you just follow the road, then I think you end up splitting it a bit. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's look and see how that works out. The road, I think doesn't go all the way there. Let's look at that closer. Let's start from Kalapana. It's not following the road all the way. MR. MELROSE: Okay, I remember that. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's see the boundary with District 4. MR. MELROSE: Malama Ki. CHR. SIRACUSA: Malama Ki is the forest reserve. MR. MELROSE: Malama Ki to Leilani Estates, that is a nice clean boundary. CHR. SIRACUSA: And Kalapana is on the other side, right? How far over is it? All of those parcels there, on the left of District 5, don't exist any more. That was Royal Gardens, they have all been covered with lava. Let's move up 130 towards Pahoa, I want to see what the configuration is there. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You have got some real connectivity issues there. CHR. SIRACUSA: That is what I am concerned about. 72 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Everything to the left of the Bypass ought to be in District 5. CHR. SIRACUSA: Where it says North Ka`ohe Homestead Road, a little further down; that doesn't exist anymore. That was gated off and became overgrown; so that doesn't even exist anymore. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: If you do it, is there numbers in there, would it still be zero? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. I could come down Ka`ohe Homestead Road right there and as long as we are looking at Pahoa Village Road. I guess that would work, although it would be better if didn't divide up Pahoa that way and take it up to the Bypass. MR. MELROSE: That's a lot though; the numbers are going to - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: And that will make District 5 too big. CHR. SIRACUSA: See where the hand is, Shyla; take it up a little bit higher. Move to the left, that little corner there; can you put that into District 5? That is where the school is. You took too much. Just that little corner piece. Those two right there, because the school is a potential polling place, and if we can get out to the school, then we can get within our district and do what we have to do. At that point, that will work. MR. MELROSE: Are you splitting Pahoa through the middle of town? CHR. SIRACUSA: No, that is the edge of town. MR. MELROSE: Is there another image you can look at? CHR. SIRACUSA: It gives both District 4 and 5 accesses to town. MR. MELROSE: Don't you need to bring that 20 into District 5? CHR. SIRACUSA: Otherwise you can't get to other places in the district. That road has to divide both sides, otherwise it doesn't work for connectivity. A little further up, that is Maku`u, Hawaiian Homes; and that straddles Highway 130 on both sides. There is a problem there because if it stays in - - -if it is all in District 4, then people in District 5 and lower Puna cannot access the rest of District 5; there is no connectivity. But if you put it all in District 5, then District 4 people can't get to HPP without going out of their district. The only way to resolve that issue there, is to divide Maku`u, Hawaiian Homes. That is a problem. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would think that it is going to take at least ten years before the mauka side of the road is developed. There is a potential of 980 lots, but right now -- -That is at the farm lots, that's makai of it; I'm talking about mauka. 73 CHR. SIRACUSA: I'm talking about mauka. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: With all the other dividing that we have done, I'm not sure that this one is a very big deal. CHR. SIRACUSA: No, it is not, so I would take those two, 12 and 6, and put them into District 5. MR. MELROSE: They are in 5. CHR. SIRACUSA: The colors are really throwing me off So they are in District 5; and we have connectivity on both sides of Highway 130. MR. MELROSE: Follow that boundary along 130, go back towards Kea`au and make sure that we- - -When we did do the issue of getting HPP - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: That's the Pohaku Circle where it sticks out a little bit there. MR. MELROSE: Are we there yet? CHR. SIRACUSA: We're there. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would like to follow the Kea`au Bypass Road. CHR. SIRACUSA: Can we see the little district thing to make sure that we got all our numbers - - -The little district box up on top. We are within our deviations all the way around. MR. MELROSE: We used it liberally; the deviations. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does any body want to make a motion? Mr. Kanuha moved to save this revised Map as Commission's Final Draft Plan. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. CHR. SIRACUSA: We are almost at the very end of this whole thing, so we are now ready to take the vote on closing Communication 51 and all related communications. 74 The motion to close file on COMM. 51 and all related Communications regarding the creation of the Commission's Draft Plan was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, — Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. UNFINISHED BUSINESS CHR. SIRACUSA: We are now on Unfinished Business. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, if I may, just for a point of personal privilege if I can just get a better look at what is on the map now. We can do it after, maybe I could go to your office or something, but I would like to get a good look. CHR. SIRACUSA: In the meantime, we have no Reports, we have no Referrals for Executive Session. ANNOUNCEMENTS COMM. 52: DATES AND TIMES FOR REDISTRICTING COMMISSION MEETINGS AND PUBLIC HEARINGS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 3, 2011, to discuss the date, time, and location of upcoming regular meetings and public hearings. Ms. Ugalde moved to close file on COMM. 52. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho. CHR. SIRACUSA: What I would like to do is share something. The Commission has to decide if we want those public hearings teleconferenced. I should think that we would, and we have a quote from Jeff Haun if we do. So we have to determine that officially. MS. POINDEXTER: I would say yes because that was why I was willing to waltz with Joe. I want to see if we can hear from the people in Waimea, and if we have the meeting just here or in Kona, they would have to be driving either way. If they could go to Pete's office, or wherever, to teleconference in, that will give them their voice. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. 75 MR. CARVALHO: I agree; thank you Val. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, all in favor of teleconference. It is going to cost $750, which includes tax, for up to three hours of meeting time to teleconference. MR. MELROSE: I think we should split up all the money we saved for not spending the budget. CHR. SIRACUSA: Now, the dates and times for Redistricting Commission meetings. The public hearings have already been scheduled, unless anyone thinks we should change those meetings. MR. MELROSE: Let me just ask the question to Pat. What you said was, that you could make the deadline if you send this off right now to Royce, he can produce maps for you in a week and be back, so we have visuals at this point. We need to have the visuals available. MS. NAKAMOTO: Yes, we needed to get a file sent to Esri today, and he will be able to send the PDF file to us on November 17, 2011. Then we will have the maps printed here in time for our first public hearing on November 21, 2011. MR. MELROSE: So we have the time to do it. Okay. CHR. SIRACUSA: So that is doable. We are on track with our timeline. MS. NAKAMOTO: Yes. MR. MELROSE: Are the notice issues taken care of too? Do we have adequate time to provide the notice? CHR. SIRACUSA: Karen? MS. EOFF: If I submit the public notice to the newspaper on Monday, it will be in next Friday's newspaper. MR. MELROSE: Is that sufficient notice? MS. EOFF: Unless you think I should give it to them tomorrow. They said they don't take Veteran's Day off, so I could submit it tomorrow and get it in Thursday's paper. MR. MELROSE: The sooner the better. MS. EOFF: Okay, I'll try for Thursday's paper. It will read something like this, but I am going to mention that the large maps would be available and that videoconference will be available. 76 CHR. SIRACUSA: Very good. Have we scheduled our next meeting after the public hearings yet? MR. MELROSE: Yes, November 30, 2011. CHR. SIRACUSA: Alright, then we can take the vote on closing file. ADJOURNMENT The motion to close file on COMM. 52 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. There being no further business, at 4:20 p.m., Ms. Ugalde moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: Motion carries. Thank you very much Commissioners. And I would like to say a very big mahalo to Shyla and Cori. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would like to give the staff and everybody in Elections a big thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: We are adjourned. 77 Respectfiilly Submitted, Karen Eoff, Secretary Approved on November 30, 2011: Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Hawaii County Redistricting Commission m