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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RDC 2011-11-30.tif2011 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 12th Session Wednesday, November 3 0, 2011 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 CALL TO ORDER: CHR. SIRACUSA: Today is Wednesday, November 30, 2011, and this is the 12th session of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission. Welcome aboard. I will start with the roll call. ATTENDANCE: Present: Mr. Joseph Carvalho, Commissioner Mr. Patrick Kahawaiola` a, Commissioner Mr. Craig "Bo" Kahui, Commissioner (10:10 a. m. Kona) Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Commissioner Mr. Jeffrey Melrose, Commissioner Mr. Mike Middlesworth, Commissioner Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Ms. Valerie Poindexter, Commissioner Ms. Linda Ugalde, Commissioner Also Present: Michael Udovic, Deputy Corporation Counsel Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator Cori Saiki, Elections Assistant Shyla Ayau, Elections Clerk Nora Avenue, Committees Section Staff Maile David, Legislative Specialist Dave Hirt, Legislative Assistant, Waimea Barbara Lively, Legislative Assistant, Pahoa Leslie "Lali" Robinson, Council Aide in Kona Karen Eoff, Secretary STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS CHR. SIRACUSA: Testimony is limited to three minutes. Thank you. Our first testifier is Margaret Wille, representing herself. MARGARET WILLE (At this time Margaret Wille came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. WILLE: Hi. Margaret Wille, and I was really assuming that we could have three minutes for the different subjects. I actually have quite a bit on the last narrative. But, I will move right along. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let me just say that if you want to save time, you can just mention anything orally that was not in you written testimony. In that way you can cover more ground. That's just a suggestion. MS. WILLE: I did submit written testimony and I will refer to that and try to just run through. Let me just say, I agreed with Chair Siracusa's revisions that she incorporated in her submission, and I submitted a few little minor nuances that I added. What I sent in is actually her revisions with mine added into that dealing with boundary 8 and 9 districts. Let me also say that I agree with James Weatherford and Scott Stoddard's submissions in terms of Kea` au and Pahoa and putting those in the two districts. I added, on Mauna Lani, just two things on District 9 that I think should be corrected. Mauna area community is somewhat split; there are two small areas that are designated on their plan with 14 and 21 residences that really should be incorporated into District 9; and the community prefers District 9. On the western portion of Saddle Road - -this is the second one - -I think Brenda Ford requested to put Saddle Road in all of the western section, District 8. I think that is fine, but the Waiki`i community should stay in District 9 and there isn't a road connectivity problem there. If you go in, you will see that jeep road. That community prefers to be in District 9; there were two people who spoke to me. I agree with here that Pohakuloa Base, which is on the western side of Saddle Road, should stay in District 8 and not be in District 2. I don't think that is appropriate. On Kealakekua Bay, if you recall, Chuck Flaherty had testified to see if we could put the conservation area into District 6, provided that it didn't include shoreline park; Hokulia's Shoreline Park. Unfortunately, that census block is all one entity, so there are pros and cons there. There aren't any houses in that area of Hokulia, but it is there golf course and sort of their park area. If I was a resident there, I would be concerned about having that area all cut off and moved into another district. So, there are pros and cons; I would probably go with leaving in District 7 with that community. And I don't think it's a bad thing for there to be two representatives dealing with Kealakekua Bay Park problems. So, there is no population on that end. 2 I agree with the re- naming. I think that is important. I think Commissioner Middlesworth has pointed this out repeatedly; so that we don't get into misunderstandings, I put my suggestions in there. Since Map _40, which has long been revised, but was sort of the base template that I worked from, I wrote what my thoughts were, and what went into that; such as switching the mauka portion of Mauna Kea from District 1 over to District 2, which I thought would be good to have it with the University and not splitting any community down the middle, looking at overall regional issues of fairness and not just individual communities, getting into the whole issue of not having a lop sided plan, or at least the appearance of a lop sided plan that would undermine the intent of having an independent Hamakua district. So, I did submit a separate sheet just on what my thoughts are and what went into that original template for when you are working on the narrative issue. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you and thank you for your consistent hard work on this process. I would like, for the record, to acknowledge that our District 8 Commissioner has arrived and he is sitting there in Kona. MR. KAHUI: Thank you, Madam Chairman, I appreciate that. Mahalo. CHR. SIRACUSA: Our next testifier is Pete Lindsey, representing Hawaii Construction Laborers' Union, Local 368. PETE LINDSEY (At this time Pete Lindsey, Field Representative Hawai` i Construction Laborers' Union Local 368, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. LINDSEY: Aloha members of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission. My name is Pete Lindsey, and I am the Big Island Field Representative for the Hawaii Construction Laborers' Union, Local 368. On behalf of our 500 Big Island members, and retirees, especially the 150 plus that live in the Hilo area, I am testifying in support of the proposed change to the boundary of District 2 and 3 in the 2011, 11. 10, Hawaii County Redistricting Draft Plan. These proposed changes will create districts which will be similar to the existing district, which we believe has been good for both districts. The proposed change would result in District 2 maintaining a rural and residential character. District 3 would maintain a transportation, light industrial, commercial, and educational character. Instead of being split as it is in the present draft. The proposed changes would mean that the waterfront area of downtown Hilo, Banyan Tree area, major light industrial or major commercial Hilo Airport, Hilo Landfield, and U.H. Hilo will be in the same district. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you for coming in. Our next testifier is Joyce Folena, representing herself. JOYCE FOLENA (At this time Joyce Folena came forward to address members of the Commission.) 3 MS. FOLENA: Good morning, Chairwoman Siracusa, and all members of this Commission. Thank you for your work. I would like to definitely support Communication 53, and I'm understanding that any and all tweaking or changes will be non - substantive to the numbers. There won't be any last minute, let's wang, bang and do it a different way. That's my understanding and I trust that is what is going to happen today. I thank you again for giving our Puna district, our boundaries of Puna, the two voting districts that we legally deserve by Federal Law. In the 2012 elections, two Puna County Council Representatives will have their residences in Puna; that is very important to us. In Communication 53. 1 . the changes to Kea` au; I'm curious about that. I'm sorry I don't have a computer, but I know there is a little dingle dangle there. There is a bizarre shape with District 3 into District 4, and I believe that needs to be corrected. I don't know what it represents, but there definitely are some street lines in that little dingle dangle, or whatever you want to call that thing. Communication 54, renaming the new council districts; yes, please do, very clearly and very distinctly so that everybody can understand when they review the minutes. Anyone that is interested in this process, would be definitely understanding what district they are in and why they are in it, because there will be changes from what is happening today. I also must applaud -- without getting too sticky about it -- Brenda Ford, because it is my very, very strong feeling that unless we had Brenda Ford doing what she is doing for the past ten or eleven years, I think we wouldn't have had this beautiful Commission today; and we certainly would have been behind the eight ball as Puna residents. So, thank you, Brenda Ford, and thank you Rene. Much credit is due to Ms. Siracusa, who has worked for us untiringly for I don't know how many years. I have known Rene for 20 some years, and that lady works her butt off. Bye -bye, thanks. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you for your support, you are going to make me turn red. Our next testifier is Gregory T. Smith. Then we will go on to Pahoa, I see there are some testifiers there. GREGORY SMITH (At this time Gregory Smith came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. SMITH: Good morning Commissioners; and I'll just make it really quick. Number one, I really appreciate the work. So far, it looks like a great plan. This can be a very unforgiving process. I went through such things on the mainland before, and it could be very, very contentious. But in any case, it looks very good and I suppose it will be just mopping up a few details. Nonetheless, I do support the commentary of Communications 53.1 and 54. I support that and get it done. Thank you all for your great work, it was really outstanding, and I again state that I hope that the Council can take a lesson from all of this. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Greg. We now move to Pahoa. 12 MS. LIVELY: Thank you. Good morning, Madam Chair. This morning we have two testifiers. The first is James Weatherford, he is commenting on Redistricting and representing himself. JAMES WEATHERFORD (At this time James Weatherford came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. WEATHERFORD: Aloha Commission. I put in a written testimony that you have just regarding some modifications to the boundaries between District 4 and 5, as well as between District 4 and 3; specifically that testimony and the little snapshots should cover the issue that earlier testifier raised about the little piece of Kea` au stuck down from District 3. So, it essentially puts all of the central Pahoa Village in District 5, the core of Kea` au Village in District 4, and meets all other criteria the Commission has been working on. Please have a look at it, and I can't thank you enough for your wok throughout all these months. Aloha. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, James. And now - -- Excuse me, Bo? MR. KAHUI: We just wanted to inform the Chairman and the Commissioners that we have one testifier in Kona. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, we will take them after our next testifier in Pahoa. Thank you, it doesn't show up on the screen that there is someone else there. MS. LIVELY: Thank you Madam Chair. Next we have Patrice MacDonald, and she is commenting on Kea`au's boundaries and she is representing Hawaiian Acres. PATRICE MACDONALD (At this time Patrice MacDonald came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. MACDONALD: Hello, Commissioners. I really want to thank you for all the hard work you have done. My one concern --I think you have done an excellent job despite the software problem - -is the boundary of Kea`au that you have with urban Hilo. I'm wondering if there is a way to correct that at all, because that is actually our existing District 6's original town center. That is pretty much divided now into District 3. My only other comment was technicalities of some of your maps do not reflect very important roads that are existing. When I looked at the maps, they seemed to be from 1957. I don't know if that will have a future repercussion, or not, but, thank you so much for your hard work. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Patrice. Just to let you know, the changes to Kea` au are on the agenda for today, and also, we had nothing to do with the software maps; but those discrepancies have been noted, and will be included in our final report. So, thank you for noticing that. Do we have another testifier in Pahoa? If not, we can move on to Kona. 5 MR. KAHUI: Thank you, Madam Chairman. We have before you, Cheryl King. CHERYL KING (At this time Cheryl King came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. KING: Good morning, Commissioners. Thank you for being here and for all of your efforts. I had one comment on Communication 55.1. I was sent a list of potential topics for the final report, and I wondered if you might not want to include the possibility of definite support set out for you ten years from now when the new Commission begins. It seems like at first there was a lot of confusion regarding who you would go to for help and for training, so I thought that might be in order. Last, I want to extend a special thank you to Karen Eoff, the Commission Secretary. I feel like she has perhaps been the glue that held this Commission together. She has helped make this whole process transparent by her transcribing and posting the endless meeting minutes, and the endless hearing that were held. Through her efforts, we were very much able to keep up on what was going on if we wanted to. She was very timely in her responses, if we emailed and if we had a question, and I appreciate her efforts very much as well as all the other support staff that I know contributed to this effort. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Cheryl, and the Commission does agree with you on all of those points by the way. We appreciate the staff, and especially Karen. Those points that you referred to, by the way, that's just a starting point. But there will be recommendations on all of those, so that would address your first item. Does anyone else want to testify from anywhere? No? Then we will move on to approval of minutes. APPROVAL OF MINUTES CHR. SIRACUSA: Approval of minutes of November 10, 2011. Mr. Kahui moved to approve the minutes of the November 10, 2011 Hawaii County Redistricting Commission meeting. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde CHR. SIRACUSA: Any discussion? The motion to approve the minutes of the November 10, 2011 Hawaii County Redistricting Commission meeting was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. 0 ORDER OF THE DAY / NEW BUSINESS COMM. 53: FINALIZATION OF COMMISSION'S REDISTRICTING PLAN From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 23, 2011, requesting the Commission's review, discussion and finalization of Redistricting Plan for the County of Hawaii. and COMM. 53.1: From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 23, 2011, transmitting a map showing changes to Kea'au. and COMM. 53.2: From Royce Jones, Hawaii- Pacific Islands Region Manager, ESRI, dated November 11, 2011, transmitting revised map correcting minor contiguity errors in Commission's Draft Plan. and COMM. 53.3: From Brenda Ford, dated November 23, 2011, transmitting suggested revisions to Commission's Draft Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have three points under this Communication. What is the pleasure of the Commission; would you like to take them all sort of jump around, or do you want to take them one at a time? One at a time, folks. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I have a map that I submitted earlier, and another one that I submitted this morning. I would for us to look at. CHR. SIRACUSA: We can do all of that, yes. So, let's start with the ones that are on the agenda then, if that is okay with everyone. That would be 53.1 and that has to do with the changes to Kea` au. Shyla, could you come up please? This was inspired by what Joyce referred to as the little dingle dangle that was hanging down in Kea` au; and since then, as the Commission has read from James Weatherford's and Scott Stoddard's communications, it was pointed out to us that there was another way to address that, and to also address the issue of - -- Before I start, I should say, I need a motion to close file. Mr. Kanuha moved to close file on COMM. 53. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. CHR. SIRACUSA: To address that problem, but also the fact that in our Final Draft Plan, we have Kea` au divided and we also have Pahoa Village divided. This would address those two issues so that both those towns would not be divided, and each town would go into one or the other districts. So, let's look at how we can do that, if that's okay with everybody. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This is Rene's Plan. 7 CHR. SIRACUSA: This is 53.1. We might want to go to (1) first, and show that dingle dangle as a point of reference, and then move over to (2) and see my original suggestion for addressing that. Then take a look at the Weatherford /Stoddard suggestion for that same area. Can you zoom in, Shyla, to that interface centered around Kea` au? Right where it says District 3, that little dingle dangle there. That is the part where a lot of Kea` au is in District 3. Yet, if you look at the numbers of District 4 and District 5, they both would allow a little more population; and District 3 would not be under, if we took some population away from it. So now let's look at Final Draft Plan amended (2) to see how I originally thought we might address that. Zoom in; not it's the same one. Go to "open local." We had it backwards. Okay, we'll look at all of those, then we will have some basis for making a decision. Zoom, zoom. Okay, this one puts the bypass and a good portion of Kea`au into District 4. Now, it could still be better. Let's take a look at Mike's now. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Before we get away from there; I'm the representative from District 3, which means that this community is my concern as Honoka`a was Val's concern, and Puako was Joe's concern. The reason that that earlier map had Kea` au in District 3 was because the Village of Kea` au is not terribly populated, but the business interests and the landowners in that area feel much closer to Hilo than they do to Puna and to the residential subdivisions. They would much prefer to stay connected to Hilo because they are principally businesses. It is not a big residential area, it is not going to grow in terms of population, and as I say, they feel that their connection is to Hilo. That is their community of interest, so to speak; just as Puako's community of interest is North Kona, I mean North Kohala. But that was the reason that I had tried to keep Kea` au within one of the Hilo districts for all of this time. And, as I say, I feel strongly about it because a number of those people feel strongly about it, and that was the reason it was there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. I don't - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let me say this; it does not belong to Puna. These places do not belong to a judicial district. They are not the property of a judicial district. They are the property of the people who live there, and if the people who live in a community have a choice, then I think that we should honor that choice. CHR. SIRACUSA: I agree with that, although we haven't had anyone from Kea` au come and testify. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You have not had anyone from Kea`au come in and testify either way. CHR. SIRACUSA: That is right; either way. Okay, should we look now at the plan, the alternate way of dealing with this that was submitted by James Weatherford and Scott Stoddard. Do we only have screen shots of that one, Karen? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I think it is the last one on the list. 0 MS. POINDEXTER: No, that is Margaret's one. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, can you drop down to Pahoa while we are doing this. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have the hard copies here. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If she goes down to Pahoa, she can make the changes if we tell her. CHR. SIRACUSA: What this does is move the line dividing District 4 and District 5 that in our current version goes right down the middle of the main street in Pahoa, and moves it over to the bypass. There is 178 people in that area, and that way it all becomes District 5, and everything to the right of the bypass stays in District 4. And the idea was that by making that shift, then Kea` au could go into District 4. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Can you make those changes on the map, Shyla, so we can see them? CHR. SIRACUSA: Take everything that is in between the lines of the bypass and put it into District 5. Then, up on top. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That makes District 5 too big. CHR. SIRACUSA: But we are going to change that when we get up to Kea` au; that is what his plan is that he is presenting to us as a suggestion. So, let's take a look at that and see how It works. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It doesn't work. Putting Kea`au in District 4 does not change the numbers for 5. CHR. SIRACUSA: Basically, you look at the bypass that is in District 4; the Kea` au bypass, and move all of that into District 5. No, no, I'm sorry, 5 has to shed. Is James overt ere in Pa oa? MR. WEATHERFORD: I am; thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Can you clarify that for us, please? MR. WEATHERFORD: Yes I can, thank you; and thank you for looking at it. To offset the change you just made in Pahoa, you need to go down to Kamaili Road. For District 4, if you go look at the south end, the opposite end from Kea`au, down towards Opihikau. CHR. SIRACUSA: That was the one that didn't come out when you tried to send it to me. MR. WEATHERFORD: Yeah, I apologize. I really apologize to the Commission for not being able to work on this more. I have actually been working myself lately. 9 CHR. SIRACUSA: I thought that the change came in Kea` au. MR. WEATHERFORD: Actually, there is no change in Kea`au for District 5, only for District 3. If you go down to-- -Right now, Leilani, Malama Ki boundary, the south one, if you take in Kamaili Road, that long sweeping arc through there; if you bring that into District 4, it takes it out of District 5; that puts the numbers back okay. District 4 is still able to absorb from District 3, up by Kea` au. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's do that, Shyla, and see what it looks like. That is one humongous census block. Down below there too, right? MR. WEATHERFORD: Nothing below that line, no. No, have a look at the coastal side though to see if you picked it up there, if you could, please. There are people who live on each side of Kamaili Road; and this was actually discussed at an earlier Commission meeting, and Mr. Melrose pointed that out. When I looked at it, I just thought those were fewer people that are in Pahoa, and it is much easier to notify those fewer people, and clearly it has been pointed out that splitting the commercial area in Pahoa has its own problems. CHR. SIRACUSA: District 5 still has too many at this point. The population in District 5 is 21,516. MR. WEATHERFORD: Okay, if you look - - -As I recall, the deviation would be about 4.95 %. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's take a look at the deviation. No, it's too much; 5.15 %. MR. WEATHERFORD: Okay, well, I managed to pick up enough on there; I have emailed the Plan, but I can't do anything at this point. I had the .plan file on one of the emal s. CHR. SIRACUSA: Those little ones you are circling with your cursor, Shyla - -- MR. WEATHERFORD: That is Sea View; there are several hundred people there. think you will find that it bumps 4 over. CHR. SIRACUSA: District 4 is too much now. It doesn't appear to work, James. MR. WEATHERFORD: The file I sent did. I'll just have to relinquish at this point. But on the .plan that I sent in, it worked so - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, Karen says she is going to try and get that file sent here. So, don't go away James. In the meantime, does the Commission want to move on and then table this and then come back to it after the file is sent over? 10 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let's go ahead and look at the one that I submitted this morning; which is the first one on her list. This one resolves the Kealakekua Bay problem; it does keep the subdivision whole and deals with the park thing. I'm just giving you a little narrative while we are waiting. I would resolve the question about the Saddle Road by moving District 2 up that way. This also does some minor tweaking in the District 2 and 3 boundary in order to eliminate that little fishhook that we had in the earlier plan. Okay, there is the west side, District 7 and 6; Dru, you guys will have to look at that. MR. KANUHA: Okay, it pretty much keeps most of Hokulia in one. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It throws most of Hokulia into District 6; whether that matters or not, I don't know. MR. KANUHA: No, it doesn't matter. What matters is the testimony that was provided by a few - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Can you move down a little, Shyla, to show us Kealakekua Bay? MR. KANUHA: The testimony that was provided wanted to keep Kealakekua Bay in one district, District 6, because they didn't want to split it. MR. MELROSE: What I took from the testimony, which I think we got from Brenda, and she was referring to it in relationship to State Parks kuleana; and frankly, I don't see a nexus in that at all, in terms of who represents the district and what the State Park does. I just don't think those two things are linked. If it makes a difference, then let's change it. If it doesn't. I don't feel motivated to fix that problem. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I don't either. MR. KANUHA: I think it's fine. We dealt with the big issues already and this isn't a big issue. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I don't care about the park issues particularly either; but I do think we ought to keep the subdivision in one district, which is what this does. That is really what we are talking about. MR. MELROSE: Is that the total population of Hokulia today? MR. KANUHA: Yes, it's an undeveloped subdivision. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I drove through it a couple of weeks ago. It is pretty sad. CHR. SIRACUSA: They have had a few legal problems. Okay, so does that mean this part of Mike's plan is approved? 11 MR. MELROSE: How does Bo feel? Are you following the conversation about what we are doing with that piece of South Kona? MR. KAHUI: Yes, I am. Frankly, I really don't have an opinion because that park is between District 6 and 7. I am so far north of that boundary; I don't have any particular preference. But in relation to parks, I did mention to Dru Kanuha that the Old Airport, Makaeo Park, is in District 7, and it would have been my personal preference, although I when I asked my constituents, they didn't have any opinion; but it would be my personal preference to put that park, Old A, into District 8. The rationale to that was that the Kona CDP identifies the park as one of those key elements. What spun out of the Kimura International Charette that was held three years ago was the establishment of the Kealakehe Regional Park, which is in District 8. So when you are talking about parks, I see that nexus, as you might coin Jeff, so for me, in relation to parks, that would seem more appropriate than what is happening between District 7 and District 6 with respect to the Kealakekua State Park. MR. KANUHA : Thanks Bo. I think we are done with this boundary. Can we move up to the 7 and 8 boundary? With this, it does incorporate the Old Airport Park, which I thought was always considered part of Kailua, and that district. When you talk about the Kealakehe Regional Park, you can see, if you zoom out a little bit, if it is going to be associated with Old Airport - - -Try going a little bit up north, Shyla. Kealakehe is close to Honokohau, and that regional park would be, to me, a vital part of District 8, while also having the Old Airport part of District 7. That was my thinking; to have two separate - - -If it so happens, when that Kealakehe Regional Park does come out, it would be good to have one representative representing that one, and one representative representing Old Airport Park. MR. KAHUI: Under that notion, we support that. We have two Kona representatives representing the west side, so I just wanted to share that for the record. If my constituents come back and say, "Hey what happened here?" More importantly, I think, it was a conversation we had, and something we have done with collaboration and approval. So, I support that as well, thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is there any other discussion on this particular part of the map? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, I do, and not particularly on the map itself, but on the language that has been used while discussing it. One of it was about the relevance of the CDP, and why this community should or should not be split. My only concern is that when Volcano acquiesced to all what happened to keep other communities within their CDP, Volcano is now thrown out of its CDP. So I wish we would continue to do the work of the Commission to redraw the lines as opposed to a lot of credence to CDP's; because CDP's is an ordinance off to and by itself. What we are doing as Commissioners here with the redistricting has got to deal with the census. So, I would like to make sure that we do that; not split, stay within the 4.99% for the whole thing so we don't get caught into wanting to help a community based on how they are doing in their CDP. But I want 12 the record to reflect, but I want the record to reflect that Volcano is no longer part of the Puna CDP, which they were actively part of. CHR. SIRACUSA: Actually Pat, they are part of the Puna CDP, and that is in the Ordinance. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: It's in the Ordinance, but they would be in another district. CHR. SIRACUSA: They will be in another district, but are part of the CDP. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That is why I want to make clear; they are now in another district. So they would, conceivably, if it was the Ordinance that said Puna, they are not in Puna. I just need that to be clear. MS. POINDEXTER: I agree with Pat, and I think what Pat is trying to say is that we cannot use the CDP as a reference point to make a point on why the lines should start moving. Because everybody is going our CDP, our CDP; but if you look at what happened with Waimea, and by White Road, they were not working with Hamakua and Honoka` a on a CDP, they are not in the Waimea District 9, they are in District 1. See, we cannot use the CDP as a reason to try to change the lines any more because other communities have suffered. MR. KAHUI: I support Pat as well as Val regarding that. I only brought that up because there was some relevance and nexus to that. But I support Dru's analysis and his understanding. We got two Kona representatives that might be good, and I currently support the way the map is currently. So thank you Pat and Val for expressing those notions, that it's really not about the CDP and please forgive me for having brought that notion up. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Your apology is not necessary, bra. MS. POINDEXTER: Your apology is not necessary. CHR. SIRACUSA: I just want to clarify one thing Bo. You say you support it the way it is. Are you referring to the way it is on the map right here, the way Mike did it? Or, are you talking about the way it is when we did the final draft plan? MR. KAHUI: I support the way it is currently, right now between District 8 and District 7. MR. KANUHA: This boundary wasn't changed. CHR. SIRACUSA: I just wanted to clarify that for myself. Joe, did you want to say something? MR. CARVALHO: Can we move up to between District 8 and 9 now? 13 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Move over to the Saddle? MR. CARVALHO: Okay, let's go over to the Saddle. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, off to the Saddle we go. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I know there was a suggestion to move the Saddle into District 9, but I think that would make a strange looking District 9. So, what I did was to take that area and continue District 2 on up that way so that 2 runs all the way to the mountain anyway. There aren't any people there, and there is no issue of throwing people into a different district. MR. MELROSE: Shyla, can you move up and give us a little sense of Waiki`i. I like that boundary, it if fine with me. I just want to make sure it doesn't affect Waiki`i. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It doesn't affect Waiki`i at all. MR. CARVALHO: That looks good for me. MR. MELROSE: That's okay. Can we take a look at Mauna Lani and see what we can do there. MR. CARVALHO: There are a couple of census blocks we can move back into District 9. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You cannot. There is one that is too big, and it just goes bang. CHR. SIRACUSA: Excuse me, are Royce Jones' little tweaks to those little contiguity things already incorporated? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I think so. I went through and already did all those. CHR. SIRACUSA: We don't have to go through all those. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I went through and checked every district for those contiguity issues. MR. KANUHA: Well, there is a 14 and 21 that you can move. MR. CARVALHO: That's the one I was talking about. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Their concern is to go down to the road further south to catch the rest of their golf course. But you can't do that because that census block is too large, and you end up taking half of the Waikoloa King's Course. 14 MR. CARVALHO: That would be it. Like Mike said, you can't take the next block. You can try and see what happens and then undo afterwards. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That's what happens. It takes a lot of Waikoloa. So you have got to chose. Who do we split, Waikoloa or Mauna Lani? There are fewer full time residents at Mauna Lani. MR. KANUHA: I agree with just putting those two census blocks into District 9. MR. MELROSE: I appreciate the owners concern there; if we can do what we cant there. The lady that who testified knew that this wasn't going to work well by lines, and so if we can do something like this, this is fine with me; but I think this is all we can do, frankly. MR. CARVALHO: I think that's the best we can do. MR. KAHUI: This is Bo from Kona. I totally agree with that notion. She did testify; it was obvious that she also reviewed -- -When we did the revision, she knew that the census block was going to really skew, I think, the population. What we are trying to do is serve the community of interest, but this is one that we probably cannot meet. MR. MELROSE: Shyla, can I see the district numbers again just to make sure what that looks like for District 8 and 9? Okay. CHR. SIRACUSA: So we are good there. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Look at the change in Districts 2 and 3. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, while we are up here did we want to look at some of the Brenda Ford suggested revisions? Or is that what we have been doing? Okay, so let's go to Districts 2 and 3 then. Karen, have you been able to get that email? MS. EOFF: We'll have it in about ten minutes. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, ten more minutes. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I shifted the 2 and 3 boundaries a little bit to eliminate that tail that we had earlier. That is essentially what I did. So it runs down Komohana. MR. MELROSE: I don't have a problem with that alignment. For me, I think we had talked about, in the broad scale; that we would try to keep a mauka /mauai orientation where we could. I think that is a valuable thing. I think that just is a perception that what do you represent. I represent a piece of the island, not a piece, but a tract; that actually represents our orientation. I think there is value in that. I think just from a downtown perspective, this keeps the whole of the downtown in one place. I like that. There are some old traditional terminologies for the way these two districts come to the ocean; three districts actually, the Hilo Paliku, the Hilo of the upright cliffs that goes all the way to 15 Laupahoehoe, which includes both rural south Hilo and north Hilo districts, and the Hilo One of the beach, and the Hilo Hanakahi of the Panaewa, Keaukaha area. I like the poetry in that. That stays intact with this. I like the mauka /mauai piece of it. I think this boundary makes sense to me; I don't have a problem with it. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What about you, Patrick? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would like to see the boundary between District 2 and 3 so I can get an idea of the streets. I would like to get closer to look at the streets that are being part of - - -We did talk about Kanoelehua, right? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This moved the boundary a little bit west; that is all it did. MR. MELROSE: Go up and give us a little bit more of the bottom of the map. So it keeps the Waiakea Houselots in one block. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: The line that is coming here, what street is that? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Lanikaula. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Oh, okay, Lanikaula. MR. MELROSE: Then it goes up by the University on Lanikaula. CHR. SIRACUSA: Then it moves to the west. MR. MELROSE: Is it Mililani Street? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Click on "Display Lines," Shyla. Then the color will go away and then they can see the streets better. If you really want to see it, go up and turn off the census block feature over on the left. Click on that one, now you can see all the streets without all the color. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: And the roofs too. MR. MELROSE: What are the numbers now between Districts 2 and 3? We really can't add more to 3. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Not really, because there are too many people in each of those census blocks. MR. MELROSE: How close is that to the what the old line was? We didn't grow a lot in Hilo; I don't know that we need to change a lot. One district had to slide away, but if we could hold the districts in some sense of what they used to be - -- 16 CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, you had three districts before and now you are going down to two, so that is going to definitely - -- MR. MELROSE: So where was the boundary between those in the past? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Shyla, could we go now down to the coast? I am looking to see how it encompasses the land down in Shipman. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This goes down to Kea`au Road; to the road that goes down to Shipman. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: The property north of that is all Shipman's property. CHR. SIRACUSA: That little white roof down, there, that is Shipman property, that is Haena. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And that is the impression of the landowner as we spoke earlier, why I would be adamant also. Just for the record, I just want to restate that at the onset I did not believe that we should be over the line that delineated Papa' i Bay from Puna, but I would beg to differ ma'am. Maybe people from Kea` au didn't show up to testify, but they sure called. Commissioners got called from people who did not testify, about how they wanted things to be. I received several calls from people in Hilo when we turned Hilo in a different direction. But everybody knew I did that based on the numbers. We needed to put the numbers in there. CHR. SIRACUSA: I did not receive any calls from people in Kea` au, neither up or down. But I'm glad to hear they were out there somewhere. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Those are the changes that I made on the draft plan; to correct the Saddle Road, and what I did over on the west side, and the District 2, District 3 boundary. It leaves Kea` au in District 3. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, for the time being, if everyone agrees to the changes thus far, then we can leave it right here from the moment, until we get James' plan, and I think we need another five minutes to get that plan up on the software. MR. CARVALHO: There is one more plan we should look at. Besides that plan that is coming in, I would like to see what Margaret has. RECESS: At 11:10 a.m. the Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 11:20 a.m. 17 CHR. SIRACUSA: I am reconvening the meeting because I have been notified that that software is now up. Shyla, can we have a look at it? Or, do we want to finish what we were doing over ere? MR. KANUHA: Can we just save this and move it over for a later discussion? CHR. SIRACUSA: Just call it "Untitled F for now; keep it simple. Shyla; "Untitled Lplan. Okay, we were going to look at Margaret's suggestion. MR. KANUHA: Can you go back and look at the James Weatherford one? That's the one we wanted to look at after the - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's have a look at this and see how it was handled down in Pahoa. Just to remind us, that the bypass is now the boundary in this one. So District 5 has all of Pahoa, and District 4 doesn't. Should we go down and look at the Opihikau part of it that James was talking about, before we go up to Kea` au? Okay; Shyla; okay that is Kamaili Road. The numbers are okay right now. Let's slide up a little bit -- -That is one of those census block things, there are a lot more numbers there. MR. MELROSE: Madam Chair, can you explain a little bit why we are exploring that at Pahoa; what do you think are the driving issues that make us need to make the change in Pahoa, as opposed to leaving it the way it is? I think the town has - - -Is it a voting location for voting? Or is it a- - -What is the driver on that? CHR. SIRACUSA: Actually, the locations for voting are the same whether the bypass or the Pahoa Village Road is used, as long as it is in District 5. If it is in District 4, that creates voting location problems. The idea, I think, behind what James and others have been telling us, is that, just like other communities have come forward and said, "Don't divide us," that even though Pahoa doesn't have a very large population, it is more of a commercial village center, still there is that feeling about what do you mean you are cutting Pahoa right down the middle of the main road. And if we are doing that to Kea` au also, then that is two communities in Puna that are both centers. So, what this plan does, as I understand it, is trying to do is give one major commercial area to District 4 and give the other one to District 5, without dividing. MS. POINDEXTER: But Kea`au, actually, wouldn't mind being part of Hilo, so that - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: That is what some people are saying. And yet, other people are saying, "Hey, traditionally Kea` au has always been the gateway to Puna." In this case, it would be the gateway to both Puna's. MS. POINDEXTER: But the people we heard from, from what Mike said, was people actually in Kea` au. W MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, for the record, I'll state, for the record, I was told. I was told, I was contacted by Kea` au people to say they would rather prefer to stay in Hilo. So, they contacted me, after I moved the line over into Haena; before that, no contact. When I had agreed that this is where we would move the line in 3, to Haena, I was contacted, and was told by people from Kea` au that. I don't know about anyone else, but I was contacted. For the record, I was contacted. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, and I am certainly not questioning that you were. So, let's finish with this and take a look at the whole thing before we go any further. This little part down here, with the 48, 49, 6, 10; that bothers me; that is a dis- continuity. MR. MELROSE: No, that is a census data color, that's not a district color. CHR. SIRACUSA: Oh, okay, alright. Then let's head north on 130, and take a look at how Kea` au is handled. Can you move it so we can see the bypass? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: One thing, in this part of it, now that we have gotten to this point, that troubles me, is that it appears that we have completely abandoned the notion of taking into account growth. And we are going to be in a position, I would guess, of being criticized roundly, five years from now, when Paradise Park and Leilani Estates, and some of those other subdivisions fill up, and that District 4 then becomes as overpopulated as it was before this redistricting. This plan puts both of those districts, 4 and 5, right on the edge for population; and that concerns me. I understand the feelings about including as much of Puna in two districts as we possibly can, but I also worry that the next Commission is going to be in exactly the same boat that we've been in; because these districts are going to be over populated by quite a bit; because this is where the growth is going to come. There is nothing we can really do about it except to recognize that and at some point in our discussions of all of this, in the end, make it clear why we did that. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, then I would, for the record, like to help clarify that. That is, that in ten years in time, we are going to have to re -draw the lines anyway, based on whatever the growth is then. We have it within our power to, where we have conflicting criteria - -and we have a lot of those that we have come across from time to time - -to make the decision where we are going to prioritize; which criteria we are going to take over which other criteria. And so, we have heard, roundly, from communities on both sides of Hilo, both the Hamakua side and the Puna side, that they really want to max themselves out, and have as little of Hilo input into their districts as possible; as few people from their districts in Hilo, as possible. There are historical reasons for this feeling, and I understand them. And let's hope that those reasons do not continue into the future, but we have no control over that. What we do have control over, is listening to what people want; and they have told us loud and clear, max out as much as you can for Puna, so that the fewest number of people as possible will be in Hilo, and therefore be unrepresented, quote, quote, by a Hilo councilperson. So, that's why we are looking at those kind of numbers. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What was the reaction 10 years ago, Patrick, with the - -- 19 MR. KAHAWAI OLA `A : The reaction was almost the same, with different people making - -- Especially the part of Kea` au. Because prior to that, I think, they were working on the previous ten years of people being represented by a Hilo district. At that particular point in time, and I can't speak for the people that were in District 3; so ten years prior, this has been 20 years at least, that District 3 always included parts of what is now Puna; Kurtistown, Mountain View, those places. This time around, the people in Puna wanted to include Kurtistown, Mountain View, as being part of Puna. So, with the bodies that they had, that were there, they could have. As I said, as we went around the island, again, I need to make sure everybody understands the reason that it happened, I was adamant about staying on the Puna border, because of those historical things you were talking about. That has nothing to do with the judicial districts; it has to do with an island district. As a Hawaiian, the islands were split that way. There is a Puna district and there is a Hilo district. So, that is why I was adamant to stay there. But, after we went to see how it would be to move the coastline, and I was able to say okay, we'll move the coastline because of the relationship of the whole coastline with the culture, we were of that culture, in Keaukaha. For the record, maybe I should change the, get all of you to understand. Keaukaha, all of my life, has been spelled wrong, wrong. If you go look in the Library of Congress, when Kuhio created the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, Keaukaha is called Kea` aukaha. Kea` aukaha; and I can bring you the Federal record. The point I am trying to make there is with that research under my belt, is one of the reasons I went as far as I wanted to with Kea` au. Not only because the landowner, and people in Kea` au called and said, "We have always been part of, yeah, we are Puna, but we have always been part of the legislative districts of Hilo." That is because they were the same plantation people that when the plantation closed, their kids moved to Waiakea Houselots, Waikea Homesteads, because of no work now in Ola` a. They moved to those places in Hilo, but had continuity back to Kea` au. So, that's why, when the Kea` au people kept saying - -the older people in Kea` au, which is the town on either side of the Volcano Highway, back there, those plantation homes -- expressed they would like to continue to be part of Hilo. That is why I was adamant that we encompass Kea` au into Hilo; not to take away the identity, because they are always going to be Ola` a; they are always going to be the same place, except legislatively. That's the way they want it to be. That's the way they felt comfortable; having it all these years. But, to answer your question, Mike, ten years ago, it was that. It has always been part. There was no vocal talk about I want to be part of Puna, where all the people that came out to speak from Fern Forest, Zendo, for coming out and saying, I was born in Fern Forest, I want to be here, that's part of Puna. So the numbers showed that he was probably right. The growth was there, they should be into Puna. So, I again, only say, Kea` au is where it is at, why I wanted it to be there, is for that reason. People expressed it, just like how Waikoloa came out to express; that, and the landowners, so I am saying there was no body, I will give this to everybody else, with the exception of Hilo. Hilo, we had three people show up; and three people said don't split us, and we didn't. Maybe the rest of Hilo has apathy set in. Maybe they just thought well, it's going to be there. But that is not what this thing was about. It was about here's some numbers, we got to put into nine 20 holes; and we did it. So, that is my only reason for doing that, and expressing how it should be done, how it should be done, and why, if we are going to continue to say if it's good there in Waimea, good there in Waikoloa, good there in Puna, then these people who expressed to me, maybe they didn't come out here vocally and sit out here to say it, then I think it's important for me to at least express their concerns to the rest of you and why I think it should have stayed where it is. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Patrick, for expressing your manao. Does anyone else want to say something? MR. MELROSE: I just want to revisit that issue of the high growth areas that Mike raised. In the Ordinance, Section 2(b) it says, "...if practicable " - -and practicable is not preferable, it's practical - - "... documented high growth areas shall be drawn to receive the most negative council district deviation percentages in the Final Plan." So, I think that is what the guidance is by law, for us to follow. As it relates to the two Kona districts that are growing fast, both of those were at the low end of the deviation. Hilo, which is growing, but not growing fast, has quite high deviations, partly because this pressure to hold it in, but I think that this Puna district, which we know, by far, and claimed by everybody that came in and talked to us about Puna, is the fastest growing district in the State. We have the right to use our discretion in this circumstance, by the term, "if practicable," but if practicable isn't practical, I think we ought to be- - -This still is a piece of the law, and we need to be mindful of it and we ought to be careful about that this district is not going to be well represented ten years from now on a one person, one vote principal, and that is just the way it's going to be. I hear Puna, but I'm not really going to fight for the end piece of this. I think we should keep those numbers reasonably limited. I'm just going to go off of the Ordinance as the basis for that conversation. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. Needless to say, I am in strong disagreement with you, and we can agree to disagree. MS. POINDEXTER: I want to agree with what Patrick and what Mike was saying about that whole piece of Kea` au being kept in Hilo. From what I have heard, I'm in agreement with them. I could argue, I could argue for the people of Lakeland who were calling me, that didn't show up too, and were saying Waimea was Waimea for generations; Waikoloa is a development years down the road, but yet Waikoloa got their voice heard, and now they cut Waimea off, you know, part of it. So, we could make that argument, we could keep on going forever with this. So I think that little portion of Kea` au, which has voiced that they are okay with being in Hilo, and stay in Hilo, we should honor that. It is not going to make a difference for the Puna people. It is not that big, so it's not a big disruption. The reason why I let go of the Waimea issue is because it would drastically change a lot of places. Like Linda, who had to give up being boisterous on Volcano, we all gave up. Waimea gave up a big portion, and they are going to struggle another ten years. They struggled for ten years already they said, without representation. They are going to struggle another ten years, unless they have a leader in that area; so that is 20 years. Then you have Volcano, who gave it up, and who is going to now have to handle it 21 for 10 years. So, the small portion of Kea` au, and for Puna, now to be able to get what they wanted, I think that is very reasonable. So that is my opinion, thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Puna already gave up its mauka /makai orientation, which was the preferable configuration, but that was because we couldn't get it to work because we were honoring Paradise Park's request not to divide them; if we could have divided Paradise Park, no problem. So, is the Commission now saying that you do not want the Weatherford plan? If that is the case, maybe someone should make a motion about that, one way or another, and we know what we move on to. MR. KANUHA: Well, Madam Chair, our original plan wasn't the Weatherford Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: No, it wasn't. MR. KANUHA : That was just a testimony. CHR. SIRACUSA: So, should we go back to what we titled Untitled.plan and take a look at that again and see how it handles Kea` au? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There might be a way to make a change in Pahoa on that plan if we look at it. So let's take a look and see. CHR. SIRACUSA: There were 178 people that would have to come out of District 4 and go into 5 and that would have increased the numbers in 5 to be too many by about 30 or so. By itself, just to change to change the Pahoa line from the middle of the town to the bypass would not have been practical unless some other tweaking was done elsewhere. While we are at it, Mike could you come up please, and answer a question? MICHAEL UDOVIC (At this time Mike Udovic, Deputy Corporation Counsel, came forward to address members of the Commission.) CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Jeff has been making a case for the criterion in the Ordinance that we go for the allowance for growth, and that Puna should not be maxed out on its numbers. Can we be - - -Are we in trouble if we max out the numbers of the two Puna districts based on the criteria that Jeff was reading? MR. UDOVIC: I think that is kind of an unfair question because, quite frankly, as long as you don't deviate from the 4.99% and you have reasons for making your decision, then it's acceptable, quite frankly. And a lot of the testimony you have heard, quite frankly, has been that you want to keep communities contiguous, and that kind of thing. It is also wise to be mindful of all the criteria, including the population deviance. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. MR. UDOVIC: If I answered your question. 22 MS. POINDEXTER: In a round about way; the lawyers answer. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It sounds like we have to deal with this in our Final Report, and explain why we did what we did. CHR. SIRACUSA: Exactly; and we have to do that with all of our decisions, anyway. Thank goodness we have good transcripts that we can go back and refer to. Okay, there is Pahoa, and we can see where this one shows the boundary on Pahoa Village Road. The bypass is in 4, and the communities in District 5 have access to that part of Pahoa, which includes the High School, the Community Center, which are both polling places. Now, let's go up and see how this handles Kea`au. Mike, you said you have a problem with this little dingle dangle, or no problem with the dingle dangle? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, I don't have a problem with this. The problem I had was between District 2 and 3, not the Kea` au business. What this does is essentially put the Village portion of Kea` au into 3, which is what Patrick and I have been talking about. CHR. SIRACUSA: So, Patrick, you are saying that you like it like this, or do you feel that that little dingle dangle has a contiguity problem? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Well, it's a contiguity problem only because the people there are asking for it, along with the landowner. So that's my only -- -It's not contiguity - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Compactness, I meant compactness. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: There is one road going in anyways, so - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: I am concerned about the road connectivity thing here. I do not believe that red line that divides the 75, 22, 45, and separates those out; I do not believe that line represents a street. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It's Highway 11. CHR. SIRACUSA: You can go down to the traffic light and then you can take a left and go around the school to - -- Right, and I'm trying to figure out how to get to these lots in District 4. Where is the road that gets to them without leaving the district? Oh, okay, those are uninhabited, so that's why they are a different color. If we took up the right hand side of the bypass, and put it into 4; there are no numbers in there, but I think it would make it a little more - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can't do that because this is a census block from here up to here. CHR. SIRACUSA: Oh, that is all one census block? Oh, that is one of the weird ones. 23 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That's one of the weird ones. MR. KANUHA: Madam Chair, I have a question about this. You see right below District 3 there is a whole bunch of numbers. Can they get to District 4 without having to go through District 3? CHR. SIRACUSA: That is what I'm trying to figure out. That doesn't look like a road. Is that a road there, that little line there? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That is Railroad Avenue, but that is not a road there. CHR. SIRACUSA: It's not a road, right? MR. KANUHA: Or, can you put that whole census block into District 3? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It's 120 people. MR. KANUHA: That's my question; can they get to District 4? CHR. SIRACUSA: That's why I thought that the east side of the bypass could go into District 4. But then I realized that if you look at it, it's one humongous census block. Just click on it for a minute, Shyla, so people can see. That is one strangely shaped census block. That is why some of the stuff we are looking at is creating such problems for us. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, go up the bypass where it says Ulupono Street, and pull that down. Those two census blocks there above Milo Road have no people in them, but Kea` au Road goes down to Railroad Avenue there. That one, those two, put those in District 4. That will give you access. No, it doesn't do it. CHR. SIRACUSA: It doesn't really give you access. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Undo that. CHR. SIRACUSA: The only way you could really do it is to do that strange configuration and add all of those small numbers. MR. KANUHA: Could more of District 3 go into District 2? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: A little bit, but - -- MR. KANUHA: You only need 100 people. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: But it's hard to get 100 people because of the size of those census blocks. 24 MR. MELROSE: Madam Chair, I would like to suggest that we have been around - - -We have been beating a couple of old horses here. What I would like to suggest is that we go back to the plan that Mike submitted-- - CHR. SIRACUSA: That is what we are on. MR. MELROSE: Is this Mike's plan right now? Okay, so - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: We are just looking at the Kea`au portion of it. Everything else has been tweaked. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The rest of it seems fine. CHR. SIRACUSA: If you need 100, there is that one block in 3 that says 96. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: But that is one block in a subdivision. There are two blocks over to the left. One that says 101 and the one next to it has nobody in it. Where is that, Jeff? Oh, but we are trying to go the other way. Go up a little bit. MR. KANUHA: This is all with the intent to keep Kea` au in the Hilo District 3, right? MR. MELROSE: You need to take the 33 and 82. Those two pieces are on either side of Manono Street. Take those two if that's what you need. It's not an unusual boundary. On Manono Street, you make the turn a little bit differently. That makes sense to me. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, the numbers work there. Let's go back and look at Kea`au now. MR. MELROSE: Will this pick up the 8 V2 Mile Camp? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let's make sure that it does. CHR. SIRACUSA: The numbers are okay there. Maybe there are no people living there as far as road connectivity. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: In that large block where the District 4 sign is, runs down to Paradise Park and has the north side of Shower on it. So, you can't do anything with that. CHR. SIRACUSA: That is one of the areas where the software is bad, because it doesn't show those cross streets coming off of Shower, and it doesn't define a line on the northern boundary of HPP over there. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That is one of the bullet points you had recommendations for. CHR. SIRACUSA: Exactly; for the Census Bureau; for the future. 25 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We can do it this way. MR. MELROSE: Can I call the question on this, are we ready? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We don't have motion. MR. MELROSE: We have a motion to close file, but we should do, what we are actually looking to do is to actually make a motion to accept the map as drawn currently to be the Final Map. CHR. SIRACUSA: We just want to make sure we have all our road connectivity stuff. MR. MELROSE: That's a good one, I'm glad you caught that. That was a good point. I think that was a good catch, and but I'm not sure, I think we have been around the rest of it. So anyway. MR. KAHUI: Hello, this is Commissioner Kahui here. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, Bo. MR. KAHUI: Forgive me, I did receive a call from one of our constituents, making reference, and I would like to reference Communication 53.7 by Margaret Wille. I'm not sure if we are at that stage yet. That also makes reference to 53.2, Communication 53.2 by Royce Jones, and then Communication 53.3 by Brenda Ford, with respect to the Waiki`i area. I only raise this because I would like to take a couple minutes to revisit that and see if it is plausible for us to make that small correction. If not, then I would support this map, or the previous map. We have gone to two maps today, and I'm not sure which map I am supporting. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. Bo, one thing; I asked earlier if Royce Jones' communication, where he corrected the minor contiguity errors, if that was already incorporated in this, and I was told that yes, it is. So we don't have to go there on that point. MR. KAHUI: I thank you so much. We didn't have an opportunity to look at that on this map so I - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, can do that in just a minute by looking at the review and check feature. MR. KAHUI: If we could do that, just out of -- -And then if that correction was made, then I would support this map, with respect to that revision. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, can you go up by Waiki`i? That is where he is talking about I think. 26 MR. KAHUI: Yes, that is correct. We are looking at the Jeep Road that keeps that Waiki`i Ranch, I think, into District 9. Again, it had to do with connectivity, with respect to the point made by Chairman Rene. Then, of course, with respect to the practicality of it all, relating to Jeff s comment earlier, I think that makes a lot of sense. MR. MELROSE: I don't know that I understand your concern. Does this map miss the point? Waiki`i is still in District 9. MR. KAHUI: Is Waiki`i in District 9? CHR. SIRACUSA: There it is. MR. KAHUI: I just wanted to confirm that. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: It is in 9. Did we already confirm that Royce Jones' contiguity things are corrected here? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Just go to review and click on check integrity and see what you get. MR. KAHUI: I appreciate the moment, because we hadn't had an opportunity to do this. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, that means that we go it there. MR. KAHUI: Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: What we never looked at was that map that starts off with my last name and then says M.Wille. So we should really look at that before we make our final motion. That's the one we never looked at. Zoom, Zoom. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What does it change besides the Kea`au? CHR. SIRACUSA: It is in her testimony. MR. CARVALHO: Maybe we can have Margaret come up and explain. MARGARET WILLE (At this time Margaret Wille came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. WILLE: With respect to Kea`au, it was to include Kea`au in District 4, which there was a great deal of public testimony on. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What are the changes other than Kea`au? MS. WILLE: Other than Kea`au, if you go over to Saddle Road, the difference with Commissioner Middlesworth's map, it would allow a portion of the Saddle Road area to 27 be within District 8, but you could do District 9 as well. But rather than having District 2, Hilo, encompass basically all of Saddle Road; and yes, I do understand that there is not population there, but I also think in terms of the County Council, there is a lot of respect for say infrastructure issues. Here it is Pohakuloa Base. So trying to sort of balance out that whole mauka area, Saddle Road, so that a portion of it would be included in a Hilo district, and a portion of it would be in District 8. So that was really the primary one. It also did the change for Mauna Lani. So other than supporting what Rene's plan does and making sure those numbers are correct over in the Puna area, that's all. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Commissioners. Mr. Melrose moved to adopt the revised Plan, Untitled l .plan as the 2011 County of Hawaii Reapportionment Commission's Final Plan. Seconded by Mr. Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? MR. KANUHA: For myself, I understand the reason to adopt it now, but I would definitely like to make sure and look at the District 7 boundary a final time, before I say yes to the Final Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: Both north and south, Shyla. MR. CARVALHO: One other point is, is we are going to adopt anything, I think we should have all of the Commissioners present. MS. UGALDE: Valerie has gone to do our lunch pick -up. I would strongly suggest that at some point very soon that we take a break for lunch and then come back and make the final vote. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I would like to look at what Dru was saying. We can conduct that, and then maybe withhold the final vote until after lunch. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let's look at Dru's. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, let's look at Dru's. MR. KANUHA: Sorry, I know we have already looked at it a million times, but I just want to make sure. Zoom in a little bit more. MR. MELROSE: Can you take off the population numbers? MR. KANUHA: And go towards the boundary. W MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Click on "display lines" and get rid of the color; and the "display locks," click that off. MR. KANUHA: Right below there, that boundary, can you zoom in right below there? It doesn't split a community. I am good with that, Shyla. Can you go into Kailua town real fast? Just for my sanity. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I'm not sure it will help. MR. KANUHA: Pull up towards the mountain. That follows the Waiaha Stream bed. Are we considering the mountain tops? MR. CARVALHO: Jeff, I know you have a problem with Pohakuloa staying in District 8; if there is a reason we should put it into District 2; or else maybe we can just leave it in District 8. CHR. SIRACUSA: There is nobody there, right? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I just ran 2 up that way for continuity. MR. KANUHA: Shyla, zoom into the top of Hualalai. MR. KAHUI: The Waiki`i constituents want to be in District 9. That was my point earlier regarding Royce Jones' and Brenda Ford's suggestion and I am in support of that, and I think that is the case on this map, and I support the map. I do want to note that I do support the map in its current form, with respect to District 8 north and south boundaries. Mahalo. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Bo. Is there any more discussion? MR. MELROSE: Can you move down, he wants to look at the summit of Hualalai. MR. KANUHA: See Hualalai in the top left? Would it be bad if you put those three census blocks into District 7? I know there are no people in there, and we are probably wasting time, but - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You want Hualalai in 7? MR. KANUHA: Half of Hualalai; for the watershed reason. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Does Bo care? MR. CARVALHO: I was instructed to ask a question of the staff, our Elections Staff. Is there going to be any problems, or is there an easier way to draw the boundary lines up in the mountains? Do you guys -- -Pat? 29 PATRICIA NAKAMOTO (At this time Patricia Nakamoto, Elections Supervisor, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. NAKAMOTO: It would be helpful if when you are drawing the lines, you follow some identifiable feature for the description. For example - -and Cori can probably explain this better - -there is an area where we are off of Saddle Road, and if we followed Saddle Road, then that would make the description a lot clearer. There may be people, who some day want to go and look where these boundaries are, and the descriptions - -if you folks have had a chance to look at the metes and bounds - -they are meaningless. They talk about tiger lines that have like about 10 digits in them. So if you follow some landmark; like Dru mentioned the watershed boundary. There is an area that following Saddle Road would make it easier. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Pohakuloa, you cannot. The census blocks are so strange, that you cannot follow the road. MS. NAKAMOTO: Anyways, if you folks would like, Cori can come up and show you the area that she is referring to on Saddle Road. MR. CARVALHO: Thank you, Pat. MR. KANUHA: I wanted to move back to Hualalai to put those three census blocks into District 7, to follow the watershed boundaries of the Waiaha watershed in Kona. MR. KAHUI: Was that going to affect District 8? This is Commissioner Kahui. MR. KANUHA: In population, no. It does put half of the summit of Hualalai into District 7 and half in District 8. MR. KAHUI: Okay, but are we moving further east then, or are we holding the eastern boundary? We cannot see the screen at this time. MR. KANUHA: It's just the three census blocks. MR. KAHUI: We have the screen now. MR. KANUHA: Just the three on the very southern; those three. That's all; Bo, what do you think? MR. KAHUI: Well, respectfully, we like water too. MR. KANUHA: Well, you get the summit of Hualalai. MR. KAHUI: Well, it doesn't rain up there. But, you know, I would prefer the previous map, and trying to keep some of that watershed. As you know, water is a big issue for us 30 in Kona, both north and south Kona. We currently have major, major developments throughout Kona, and water development is a serious issue. Having to take this watershed area out of our district, might become problematic for our district representative to seek the kind of resources, if not anything else, resources to make that happen. So, respectfully, I would support the plan that I previously accepted, and I would again ask that we go back and put those three census blocks back into District 8. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Bo. Dru, how committed are you to that? MR. KANUHA: I was just following the watershed boundaries. With this boundary it creates, it is part of that Waiaha boundary of the Kailua region. So that is the only reasoning why I wanted to include part of the summit, not all of the summit. Most of the summit is in District 8, it was just creating little bit more of that watershed. CHR. SIRACUSA: How about two out of three? MR. MELROSE: I think we are talking poetry, not resources here. Poetry works; we have one moment to be poetic, so that's what he was trying to do, not to be resource grabbing. MR. KANUHA: For clarification in describing this boundary, it would have an easier time describing that it is part of the Waiaha watershed for District 7, as a boundary between 7 and 8, and including a small portion of the summit of Hualalai. CHR. SIRACUSA: What about a compromise where you have got those three census blocks; what about separating out two of them? Would that work? MR. KAHUI: This is Commissioner Kahui again. Could we just take out, undo the last one and see where we are at? Can we take a look at- - -Zoom out and see how that looks. Dru, how does that look to you? MR. KANUHA: Well, that's the reason why I changed it; because it didn't look good. MR. KAHUI: I think, again, I would go back, I guess, to the original census block identification for this area. I guess, again, I feel that watershed area; looking at how water has become a very valuable resource for all of our communities. I think this speaks loudly for your community as well. I would approve the original map, going back, taking out those three add ons to District 8. CHR. SIRACUSA: That's the one we are looking at now. MR. KAHUI: That's correct; so going back to the original. So undo, undo two more times. CHR. SIRACUSA: That is undone already. 31 MR. KAHUI: Oh, that is undone? Okay, my apologies, then yes, then respectfully, I support this one and would adopt this one. MR. KANUHA: You guys can call the question, but I think including that into the Kona watershed, into the Kailua /Waiaha watershed, is important to District 7. MR. CARVALHO: Can we take a look at Pohakuloa Base? I wanted to move PTA Base back into District 8 with Bo, where it always was. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It is in District 2 because I moved the boundary down to the old Saddle Road because it's a much straighter line on the census blocks. CHR. SIRACUSA: Microphones please. MS. POINDEXTER: What is putting it back in there going to do? MR. MELROSE: Madam Chair, call the question. CHR. SIRACUSA: We are calling the question? Okay. All in favor of this map that we have been working on that was identified first as Untitled l .plan, and is now titled Final Plan. MR. CARVALHO: You know, Val, you were gone for about a V2 hour there. MS. POINDEXTER: I was picking up your lunch, so be quiet. MR. CARVALHO: Maybe we should just save this, and then come back. Because she needs to be briefed, I think. MS. POINDEXTER: Can we take a break for lunch, and then come back and then just summarize and then do the vote; because I know I missed a portion. I'm so sorry. MR. MELROSE: What I would like us to do is I would like us to get through this vote before the end of lunch. Then we come back and we have one task and that is what does the report look like. I would rather spend the time at this moment just to repeat what you missed, then I would be to break up and then come back. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, can you just summarize what I missed? CHR. SIRACUSA: It didn't affect your area at all. MR. MELROSE: And I think we used Mike's map that fixed the Mauna Lani issue. You saw the little conversation on the Pohakuloa; we went around on that. MS. POINDEXTER: What about the Kea` au thing. I left when the Kea` au thing. What happened with the Kea` au? 32 MR. MELROSE: What we did with Kea`au is we made a small adjustment in the Hilo area and picked up a piece of what is called 8 and V2 Mile Camp, which would have otherwise had a connectivity issue associated with it. So we fixed it from a connectivity issue point of view, and we took two blocks of the Waiakea Houselots to make that difference. So it still follows down Manono and takes a turn. It is a logical, kind of easy to track boundary. MS. POINDEXTER: When I left we were going to go up to take some from there. CHR. SIRACUSA: There is still that little piece sticking down, but Patrick and Mike have both assured us that they have received phone calls from people who actually live in Kea` au, as opposed to people from outside Kea` au who have feelings about it one way or the other, saying that they wanted to be in 3. MS. POINDEXTER: So the numbers are okay? Okay, good. MS. UGALDE: Did we need any question about Bo's preference as opposed to Dru's? MR. KANUHA: My concern, right now, is how it currently is, is that District 8 currently takes the whole watershed, the whole summit of Hualalai and District 7 is -- -That whole area from Kailua to Honalo, is still north Kona; which uses Hualalai as it's watershed. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: What if you took the two smaller blocks. CHR. SIRACUSA: That's what I was saying before. MR. KANUHA : That is fine. CHR. SIRACUSA: Those two smaller ones, Shyla; try to put those into 7. MS. POINDEXTER: Bo, are you there? MR. KAHUI: Yes, I'm here. MS. POINDEXTER: Did you hear what Dru was suggesting? CHR. SIRACUSA: How does that look to you, Bo? MR. MELROSE: He already said he would rather have it back. MR. KAHUI: Maybe if he wanted to take the upper region watershed area. CHR. SIRACUSA: You mean do it the other way around? MR. KAHUI: Go further mauka; let's see what that does. 33 MR. KANUHA: It just looks so ugly. MR. KAHUI: Okay, undo that. I guess, respectfully for both, we are going to need District 7 and District 8 work together to look at these watersheds in a collaborative effort, unified, so that things can happen for both districts. I don't intend to hoard the water, but having it in our - -- Following this district line helps us to maybe promote the development of water resources that really is impacting the growth of going north of Palani all the way up past the airport into Waikoloa. So, our water needs are so huge that when you look south of us, currently the land use planning and the planning for south Kona may not have some development, but not to the scale we are seeing in north Kona. MR. KANUHA: wasn't doing it to say District 8 needs more water, and District 7 needs more water; I was just doing it so that in the description we can follow that District 7 goes up to the summit of Hualalai, follows the Waiaha boundary; you know there is very easily descriptive words we could use in describing this district. MR. KAHUI: Are the current descriptions -- -Maybe the girl could come up. MR. KAHUI: To me, it looks like it goes up 3/4 of the way to Hualalai and can somebody describe how you would describe this boundary? CHR. SIRACUSA: The census blocks have identification numbers, so could it be done that way in terms of descriptions? MS. NAKAMOTO: We would need to look at what the metes and bounds says. We would have to take what the metes and bounds provide us, but from what we have looked at so far, a lot of the information that we see in the metes and bounds with the draft plan refers basically to tiger lines, and tiger lines, the average person would not be able to distinguish. I'm not even sure on a topo map if they would be able to find where that line is following. MR. KANUHA: Another point I was trying to make is if people do look at this they go, why did you not incorporate part of this watershed into this district? And I know that will happen, so that is the only reason why I need to incorporate a portion of Hualalai, which does cover a whole bunch of this Kailua urban region into that district. MS. POINDEXTER: I agree with you Dru. CHR. SIRACUSA: We are still left with the issue of the strangely shaped census blocks which we cannot get around and which we have bumped heads with over and over again. So we get back to that two out of three, which may not be the most elegant and poetic way of doing it, but put the two big ones in one or the other and the two small ones into one or the other; it's a matter of - -- 34 MR. KAHUI: Madam Chair, if I might. I think I have the same concern, if not rationale, as Commissioner Kanuha has for his district. They are going to ask me how come I never - - -I might add, consistently, throughout this whole process, this has been the boundary that we have been working with for some time now, throughout all the maps. And now, I think, to re -draw this particular boundary with respect to the water resources and the watershed, and the Waiaha water boundary; I think, for me, it's problematic. So, I think all of north and south Kona would benefit from both the collaboration of District 7 and District 8 to make those huge decisions about those water developments in that region in District 8. So, I will defer to the Commission and I would support this particular map as we view it right now. If the Commission decides to move that boundary, I will support that as well. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let me ask our professional planner a question. When you look at the typo map, what do you see in terms of the sharing of the watershed? MR. MELROSE: I think that what Dru is suggesting is a reasonable proposal because if you dropped water on any one of those districts, it would flow into group 7, not to 8. That is just the way the topo falls. And half of the summit and all of the water that flows into 8, if it was just going to go downhill, is preserved with what Dru says. So I appreciate what Bo is trying to make, but I think if you really look at the maps themselves, all of that area is going to go into 7 anyway, and it doesn't take away any of the resource from 8, and I would just add that we are really here about voting districts, not watersheds. So this is a little bit of poetry and simple geography, and I would suggest that what Dru is suggesting is a reasonable request. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Okay, let's do that. MS. POINDEXTER: I agree. CHR. SIRACUSA: I need a motion. MR. KAHUI: Before you move to that, then we would entertain the idea of having the two smaller of the three imported into 7. CHR. SIRACUSA: That configuration that is on the screen now? MR. KAHUI: Can we zoom out so we can take a look at it? Dru, are you okay now with that? MR. KANUHA : It's the same thing. MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, so we looked at that; can we look at what Dru's suggestion is? This is Bo's suggestion; can we look at Dru's? CHR. SIRACUSA: And remember, folks, compromise is a big part of what we are doing here. 35 MS. POINDEXTER: Right; so I would like to make a motion to accept the way it's drawn, and we see it right now on the screen. MR. KAHUI: There is a motion on the floor, Madam Chair. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes there is. And unless someone calls the question, we have to discuss it. MR. KAHUI: We called the question twice before this. CHR. SIRACUSA: I'm sorry, I'm getting confused. MS. POINDEXTER: Can I move to make an amendment? CHR. SIRACUSA: Just a second, our Corporation Counsel wants to say something. MR. UDOVIC : You have to be very specific about what motion you are doing. "It" doesn't describe anything. I keep telling my students at the University that. You need to describe what, specifically, you are asking to do; or which of two different proposals you are going to adopt. MS. POINDEXTER: So, could I make a motion to amend? CHR. SIRACUSA: We had a motion on the floor already. MR. CARVALHO: Ask Karen what the motion was. CHR. SIRACUSA: Karen, can you read that for us? MS. EOFF: Mr. Melrose had a motion to accept the revised plan that you folks have been working on as the Final Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: Then Dru said he wanted to take a last little look at the District 7 boundaries. MS. POINDEXTER: Can you withdraw your motion, Jeff? MS. EOFF: We were in discussion. CHR. SIRACUSA: We were in discussion, so if we are going to make any changes to that motion in terms of the map, then it has to be as a friendly amendment, I believe. Mike is nodding, so that is correct. MR. KANUHA: Can I make an amendment to the original motion to approve this plan? To approve Untitled l .plan? 36 Mr. Kanuha moved to amend Untitled I .plan by changing the Boundary of District 7, adding three census blocks and incorporating part of the summit of Hualalai into District 7. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: Kahui. Absent: None. CHR. SIRACUSA: Now we come to the main motion, which was originally made Mr. Melrose, which was to approve Untitled l .plan as our Final Plan. Do we need any more discussion, or is somebody going to call the question? MR. KAHUI: I would just like to go on the record, Madam Chair, that District 8, myself, Commissioner Kahui, have reservations about this map and the last minute changes to the southern boundary with respect to this. I wanted this to be noted for the record. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Bo. The motion to approve Untitled l .plan, as amended, as the 2011 Reapportionment Commission's Final Plan was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: Kahui. Absent: None. RECESS: At 12:40 p.m. the Chair called for a lunch recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 1:50 p.m. CHR. SIRACUSA: Are we ready, Nora? Okay, the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission is now called back to order again, and we are up to Communication 54, the Re- naming of the New Council Districts. 37 COMM. 54: RE- NAMING OF NEW COUNCIL DISTRICTS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 23, 2011, recommending that the County Elections Office re -name the new Council districts for the purpose of avoiding /mitigating public confusion. CHR. SIRACUSA: I do want to say that it has been pointed out to me that it is not our job to make a recommendation like that; and it is not their job; they don't name council districts, they refer to them as the numbers. So, unless someone else has something to say -- -Mike, you had something to say. MICHAEL UDOVIC (At this time Mike Udovic, Deputy Corporation Counsel, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MR. UDOVIC: I got a communication; I spoke to the Elections Office yesterday. We had a meeting and we talked about this. What they did is they went through the entire island and they went district by district, and listed all of the communities which are in each particular district. That communication may well have been provided to you; if not, it will be. It has all the different communities. For example; District 1 includes Hamakua, portions of Waimea, Waipio, Kukuihaile, Honoka`a etc. It goes on and on and explains that, which is really what the districts are. So, you could even recommend that when the districts are referred to in the plan that these communities are listed as being comprising the districts. That might be a wise way of doing it. CHR. SIRACUSA: My original thought was that suddenly there are two Puna districts, and how do you distinguish between them? But, it appears that that's a non issue here for us, so what I would do is just ask for a motion to close file and then-- - Mr. Melrose moved to close file on COMM. 54. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is there any discussion, or can we just take the vote? MR. MELROSE: I would like to make one comment. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MR. MELROSE: I think that maybe the way to approach this is in our recommendations and our Final Report, that we urge the County; whether it is through the Elections Office or the Council, to be more specific when we talk about districts. The clumping only makes it harder for the next generation of Commissioners to divide a district. The Hamakua District is the best example of a district that only 6,500 of the residents, yet we call the entire district that, and everybody gets into the habit of referring to it as that, and it's not. It's rural south Hilo, north Hilo; which you could call Hilo Paliku, and Hamakua. And when we call it Hamakua, it's as if everybody is part of it, and they're not. I think that distinction makes it a more useful way, and would allow us people to think about changes in the future. NEOO CHR. SIRACUSA: That sort of thing was what I had in mind when I wrote the communication, because I was thinking in terms of say, it had been mentioned, for example, that Volcano community felt left out because it was always called Ka`u. And South Kona had mentioned, at the Yano Hall meeting, that they felt left out because it is called Ka`u, and not Ka`u slash South Kona. So those were the sort of things that I had in mind when I wrote that communication, but I think you are right, and I think these issues can be referred to in our final narrative. We don't really have to do anything about it at this point. So, unless someone else has something to say, I would just ask for the vote on this. MR. MELROSE: Call the question. The motion to close file on Comm. 54 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. CHR. SIRACUSA: Communication 55. COMM. 55: DISCUSSION REGARDING FINAL REPORT From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 23, 2011, regarding the preparation and filing of the Commission's Final Report to the County Clerk. COMM. 55.1: From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 23, 2011, transmitting potential topics for Final Narrative Report. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do I would like to preface this by saying that, of course, I didn't put in here that we have to explain all the reasons and what criteria we used for adopting these final lines. That is a given, that we have to do that. It is also a given that we have to make some recommendations. So with that said, I need a motion to close file. Mr. Kahui moved to close file on COMM. 55. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde. CHR. SIRACUSA: Then I just wanted to ask the Commissioners to - - -You know, you have been sitting here a long time listening to everything people had to say, not only members of the public, but other Commissioners, and you have some ideas about what you would like to see in the Final Report. You may have some ideas about recommendations that the Commission should make in the Final Report. Mike Udovic and I will be working on the Final Report, and it would be very helpful is you would email the two of us any thoughts you had on the subject, so we could work them into the Report, which we will then submit a draft to you at our next meeting. 39 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Question. MR. UDOVIC: Madam Chair; prior to the next meeting. CHR. SIRACUSA: Prior to the next meeting, right; so we can discuss it at the next meeting. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I have a question, Mike. Can we cc everybody else? MR. UDOVIC: No. No. Let's not do that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: So everybody is going to be sending the same thing. MR. UDOVIC: Well, I don't have any alternative. I mean, you know, I don't make these laws up. But I don't think it's a good idea that we get to this late moment; that we do that. You can submit them to the Chair, then there is only one person communication. CHR. SIRACUSA: If there are duplicates, I'll recognize them. MR. UDOVIC: What I intend to do is - - -If you look at - -I don't know if you have a copy of the legislation in front of you, but the Final Plan, Article VI of Ordinance 11 -29, talks about the Final Plan and the criteria for that. So we will be following that particular, basically, in total, and then recommendations that you make and any deviations or things that you think should be considered. I intend to go over to Kona next week, and start working with Karen on this, because she has all the minutes there. Then we will work something up and submit it to Rene, and then we will submit it to all the members of the Commission and then make any suggestions. I told Karen to be present with her trusty word processing equipment and we will get a Final Draft Plan at the final meeting, and the approval will be signed probably by the Chairperson and perhaps the Vice Chairperson; and submit it to the - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Now, basically, there are certain things that the rules require go into this Final Report; but we could add other things to the Final Report, other than those, if we feel that it would be helpful say, to future Commissions, or to County Administration, or whatever; is that correct? MR. UDOVIC: It doesn't say you are restricted to these things, it just has to include these things; then it said any other data used by the Commission in it's deliberations. And I don't think it is unwise to make some recommendations; to consider them, or if they will, but we should do it anyways, because it is your process. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, I think we have all learned a lot from this process, and we may very well have some things that we think would help future Commissions to do their job better. So, um - - -Any body else have something to say about this subject? M MR. MELROSE: Yes, just to make a distinction. I think what we are saying is, we will write a Final Report that gets submitted to the County Clerk. So, if there is a recommendation in there that is focused on the County Council, to have them - - -I mean, I can think of a couple of things. One is there is a piece of the Ordinance that I think that's related to somehow and Alternative Plan that has a less conforming number to "shall" be what we do. I think that is an inappropriate thing, given what we have learned about doing this process, and I don't know if the Council has any more clout than the Clerk's Office when it comes to working with the Elections, excuse me, with the Census Bureau, to say, our census tracts are ridiculous. MR. UDOVIC: Well, it wouldn't hurt, Mr. Melrose, to - - -It doesn't say you can't send it to the Chair of the Council, but it might be a wise idea to file it with the Clerk and send a copy to the Chair as well. MR. MELROSE: And then the Mayor; put a cc on it, so it gets around. CHR. SIRACUSA: And speaking of the census, I have already clicked on some of the strangely configured census blocks and then clicked on identify, and taken down that number. And I think it might help; maybe we could get them to move on it, if we actually provided them with the identification numbers of some of the census blocks that we found so problematic, instead of leaving it up to them to figure out what on earth we are talking about. And so, I would urge all of you, if you are so inclined, to go back to those particular census blocks. You know, the big fingers sticking up in the middle of the island and some of the ones that go along the coast and divide certain areas, that sort of thing. And get those identification numbers, and include it to me in your email. And then I would include it in the list of recommendations that we would ask Council or Administration to make to the Census Bureau. MR. UDOVIC: I would ask, quite frankly, that we try to get this done as soon as possible because we are going to try and give ourselves a date to get a draft copy out, probably by the middle of the month, I would think, and then we will have to get a meeting to look at the Final Report, after that. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, the sooner you folks can send any recommendations to me or anything you think should be in the report; and I don't care if it's duplicating, I can work that out. Just like none of us wanted to come up against the December 31 St deadline, and still not have a plan. We still have a deadline, and the sooner we can take care of this and not dig in to anybody's Christmas holiday; I'm looking at Pat there. MR. UDOVIC: I understand that the Council Room is available on the 21St, 22nd and 23rd of December. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, that is another agenda item, so let's finish with this one right now, Mike, and that said, if any one else has any comments they want to make about that topic, and then we can take the vote to close file for this and move on to our scheduling and adjournment. So, should I call the question? 41 The motion to close file on COMM. 55 and COMM. 55.1 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. MR. MELROSE: Madam Chair, I am going to excuse myself and you let me know when the time is for the next gathering. Is that alright? CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, Jeff, and Happy Birthday, once again. He's got a cake waiting for him. Do we have any Unfinished Business? I don't think so. Reports? No; Referrals for Executive Session? No. ANNOUNCEMENTS COMM. 56: SCHEDULING ADDITIONAL REDISTRICTING COMMISSION MEEETINGS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated November 23, 2011, to discuss the date, time, and location for additional Commission meetings. CHR. SIRACUSA: Mike, you are on. MR. UDOVIC : Like I said, I think that the Council Room is available I believe the 21 st, 22nd, and 23rd of December. So I would think that would give us sufficient time to have your comments in to Rene and for Karen and I and Maile to start working on the original Draft Report, to send it to Rene and then we will incorporate your comments. CHR. SIRACUSA: If I recall, from looking at the calendar that Karen showed me earlier, the Council Room was going to be used on the 21st and the 22nd and would be available-- - Oh, it's going to be used the 201h and 21 st so it will be available on the 22nd or the 23rd The 22nd is a Thursday, and the 23rd is Friday. Do you folks think you could get everything to me prior to the 15th? Prior to? That would be really helpful. And that way I could send it out ahead of time so you could look at it before the - -- MR. UDOVIC : Mr. Kahui also needs to - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Bo, would you be able to get your comments and recommendations in to me prior to the 15th of December? MR. KAHUI: We will try to get some comments in by that time. 42 CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, the sooner the better, because the sooner gives me time to work on that draft to present to us at our next meeting. We are trying not to schedule any meetings between Christmas and New Years. It is a tight squeeze, but if everybody cooperates - - -I am asking everyone's kokua. So what will it be folks, the 22nd or the 23rd` Thursday, or Friday? MS. UGALDE: Thursday. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Thursday. MR. KAHUI: Yes, the 22nd would be fine, and if I am correct, at that time -- -Have we adopted this map as the Final Plan? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, we have. MR. KAHUI: Okay. Thursday is a good day for me. Having said that, I would like to go on record as saying that with respect to the Plan, I did vote against the amendment. Pardon me if I'm back - tracking, but for the record, we have to be sort of unanimous in this decision. While we disagree on the amendment, we would support the full plan in itself and in its entirety. Thank you. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Thank you Bo. Mahalo. MS. POINDEXTER: Can I make a motion for reconsideration on the vote that was taken for the Final Plan? MR. UDOVIC : For Mr. Kahui. MS. POINDEXTER: Mr. Kahui wants to reconsider. Ms. Poindexter moved to reconsider the vote taken on the Final Plan. Seconded by Mr. Kahawaiola` a. CHR. SIRACUSA: Bo, we have a motion on the floor that has been seconded to reconsider the motion to approve the Final Plan so that you can amend your vote if you chose to do so. MR. KAHUI: And that was, yes, to recognize the Plan as a whole, so that this body would put out a plan as a unified body, based upon all of the discussions through all of these months. Now, having said that, yes, on that notion alone, reserving my right to the amendment with respect to the earlier motion. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: In that case, I will call the question. The motion to reconsider the previous vote 43 taken to approve the Final Plan was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. CHR. SIRACUSA: Motion carries, thank you. MR. CARVALHO: Dru, you have the certificate for Bo don't you? CHR. SIRACUSA: Bo, at lunchtime we made some presentations, and so Bo had asked me, since he couldn't be here in person, to relay to the staff, his deep gratitude and appreciation for all the help they have rendered the Commission during this entire exercise. Bo, do you want to say it yourself? MR. KAHUI: I wasn't at the luncheon party, so, with that said, I do want to recognize Karen, and the rest of the staff for all their contributions to this effort. I think without them, we wouldn't have gotten this far. It's true, it is a team effort; I think recognizing my change of my vote for the Plan as a whole, is a team effort. And on that notion, we thank the team, we thank the staff, and as well as all the Commissioners in the pursuit of getting this redistricting done. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Now, did we have a motion on the floor for having our next meeting on the 22nd or did we vote on that already? I'm losing track. Mr. Kahui moved to schedule the next meeting of the Redistricting Commission on Thursday, December 22, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. in Hilo. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Melrose. CHR. SIRACUSA: At this point, we have exhausted our agenda. I have a question in the back. don't know if that is appropriate. I will now entertain a motion to adjourn the meeting. No? MR. UDOVIC : You still need to call the question on the reconsideration. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, let's backtrack, folks. EVA MR. KANUHA: That means we're missing the vote for Jeff. CHR. SIRACUSA: It's okay, we still have a quorum. I need a motion to reconsider - -- MS. POINDEXTER: We had that motion. MR. UDOVIC : Now we need to vote on adoption of the Final Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, somebody make that motion. Ms. Poindexter moved to adopt the current Redistricting Plan as the Commission's Final Plan. Seconded by Mr. Kahawaiola` a and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Melrose. ADJOURNMENT CHR. SIRACUSA: Now, the motion to adjourn. There being no further business, at 2:30 p.m., Ms. Ugalde moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kahui and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kahui, Kanuha, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Melrose. CHR. SIRACUSA: Motion carries; thank you, everybody. Respectfully Submitted, 45 Karen Eoff, Secretary Approved on December 16, 2011: Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Hawaii County Redistricting Commission HO