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And, the other thing II should emphasize, too, is that it's the temporal and spatial resolution
<br />that is, is one of the real issues here. The, anything released at PGV could be into the community
<br />within minutes, and so, this model has to be able to resolve those kinds of scales. In other words,
<br />it, it can't be an hourly averaged model. It has to be something that will give us some idea of the
<br />concentration over time, shorter time periods on the order of minutes, and shorter distances on
<br />the order of several hundred meters. So, that's one of the things that we're gonna really look at
<br />real hard is the ability of these models to give us the temporal and spatial resolution that is
<br />required for this particular kind of application.
<br />And the final thing I'd like to say is that, you know, we can do some pre -modelling. We can go
<br />in and determine what conditions are the worst for dispersion. In other words, what conditions
<br />are gonna give us the highest concentrations. And, we can model the heck out of that kind of
<br />situation and then if we are, find ourselves in that sort of a situation, low wind speed, a strong
<br />inversion lid, that sort of thing, then we know that we are in trouble, and we can react based on
<br />what modelling we had done previously. So, that's one of the other things that I probably should
<br />have said earlier.
<br />PETRICCL I'd just like to add that your point is well taken. Basically, PGV is largely self-
<br />regulating at this point. When there's a problem there, the Department of Health calls PGV and
<br />says what's going on. And, so that's, we're gonna have to address that from, in a separate venue,
<br />I think. We are, as Puna Pono Alliance, working on that and have been for quite a while. I hope
<br />that helps clarify it but largely, Department of Health and even EPA delegate a lot of those things
<br />to PGV to be self -reporting, and we need to change that as well.
<br />HENKEL: Mr. Chair?
<br />HEAUKULANL Commissioner Henkel.
<br />HENKEL: Okay, I'm a layman. I'm wondering, is it possible to release inert materials at certain
<br />times under different conditions to kind of map what's going to happen?
<br />BUSINGER: That's a very prescient question, and actually it is part of the proposal. We're
<br />going to release a non-toxic, very easily detectable gas that doesn't occur in nature, and we're
<br />gonna sample it using a special technique called bagged sampling downwind, and that's how
<br />we're going to validate the dispersion models that we, that we're going to run. And, we're going
<br />to run two different dispersion models. One is a HYSPLIT Model which is continually evolving
<br />and improving. It's, it's developed by, in NOAA, within NOAA, and the other model that we're
<br />gonna look at is this CALPUFF Model. So, we're going to have two competing models, and the
<br />CALPUFF Model is really excellent for close -in and very, very high resolution.
<br />This is a state-of-the-art project, but it's definitely something which is doable because there are a
<br />lot of circumstances in which there's pollution that's being released, say—say, a sarin gas that's
<br />being released in a subway tunnel. Any of those kinds of circumstances have, have been
<br />addressed using these kind of models. So, it is something which is doable.
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