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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016-11-03 Hearing Transcript - Ohana Ho'opakele GAF ClaimWINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT NOVEMBER 3, 2016 A regularly advertised hearing on the discussion and action on a claim for the release of funds from the Geothermal Asset Fund by OHANA HO`OPAKELE was called to order at 10:45 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Aging and Disability Resource Center Training Room, 1055 Kino`ole Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman Gregory Henkel presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Joseph Clarkson, Donn Dela Cruz, Gregory Henkel, Donald Ikeda, Myles Miyasato, and Raylene Moses. ALSO PRESENT: Duane Kanuha (Planning Director), Malia Ho (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager), Jeff Darrow (Staff Planner), Maija Jackson (Staff Planner), and Sarah Hata-Finley (Commission Secretary). And 11 members from the public in attendance. CLAIMANT: OHANA HO'OPAKELE Discussion and action on a claim for the release of funds from the Geothermal Asset Fund that includes a recommendation from the claims adjuster, for the following community approved geothermal impact mitigation project: Psycho -Social and Community Wellbeing Study in Response to Geothermal Development on the Big Island - $293,760 Funding to conduct a baseline and prospective psycho -social impact assessment on the Big Island of Hawaii in order to identify both past, existing and potential adverse impacts upon Native Hawaiians associated with the development of geothermal energy generation facilities. Note: Five members of the public (Toby Hazel, Dave Kisor, Dana Keawe, Sofia Will, and Robert Petricci), also testified on the Office of the Mayor's claim for the release of funds from the Geothermal Asset Fund for additional funding to supplement the Geothermal Public Health Study - $225, 000, which was scheduled as Item No. 7 on this agenda and continued. HENKEL: Let's come back to order. Numbers 4 and 5 on the agenda have been continued, and no one has signed up to testify, so if there's nobody out there that wants to testify on those two, we'll move on to No. 6, Ohana Ho`opakele. That's the geothermal—there's not a number of anything on that, right? The geothermal asset fund HO: It's a claim. HENKEL: claim. So, let's go right to the presentation. ARAI: Thank you, Mr. EXHIBIT C CLARKSON: Before we begin, when would it be appropriate to move for executive session. ARAI: Allow us to go ahead and CLARKSON: Okay. ARAI: —make the initial introduction and at that point, you can discuss when to go into executive session. I do believe we have people here that would be offering testimony so you can decide whether to receive that testimony first, and then at the conclusion of public testimony, then consider executive session. That way you're able to also consider any testimony that was presented on this particular agenda item. And, before we get into Agenda Item No. 6, for the notification of the Commission and members of the public who are here this morning—thank you very much for attending—Item No. 7 is a claim by the Office of the Mayor for the release of funds from the Geothermal Asset Fund to provide supplemental funding in support of the geothermal public health study for which the Commission issued a previous award in the amount of $750,000. This particular item, while agendized, is being postponed for additional information to be provided to the claim adjuster. That being said, the recommendation of the claim adjuster was not received by the office, and we have nothing to present to you at this moment which is why the request for postponement has been made. So, while we're going to be speaking on Item No. 6 which is the claim by Ohana Ho`opakele, it is my understanding as well that the members of the public can also speak to Agenda Item No. 7 even though it is being postponed, but because it is on the agenda, you can speak to it. And, the Chair will outline the procedures regarding testimony on that particular agenda item as well. So, with that all being said, I will go into a brief presentation on Agenda Item No. 6 with the Claimant being Ohana Ho`opakele. Discussion and action on a claim for the release of funds in the amount of $293,760 from the Geothermal Asset Fund to conduct a psycho -social and community wellbeing study in response to geothermal development on the Big Island. The purpose of the study as presented by the Claimants is to conduct a baseline and prospective psycho -social impact assessment on the Big Island of Hawaii in order to identify both past, existing, and potential adverse impacts upon Native Hawaiians associated with the development of geothermal energy generation facilities. Commission, Planning Commission Rule No. 12 regarding the Geothermal Asset Fund allows the Windward Planning Commission to authorize the payment of money from the Geothermal Asset Fund to Claimants whom the Commission finds have been adversely impacted by activities authorized or unauthorized by Geothermal Resource Permit No. 2 and to authorize payment for community -approved geothermal impact mitigation projects within the District of Puna. EXHIBIT C 2 In accordance with your Rule No. 12, the requested claim was transmitted to the approved claim adjuster, John Mullen & Co., who reviewed the subject claim and recommended that it be granted for the reasons as detailed in their letter dated October 7, 2016, copies of which have been provided to all of the Commissioners as well as the Claimants. Oh I'm sorry—that concludes my brief, very brief presentation on this particular matter. Again, the Commission was presented with the entire claim document that was provided to you electronically as well as hard copy, and then we do have the Director's Background Report only that supplemented that submittal. So, with that, we stand ready to answer any questions that you may have. HENKEL: Thank you, Daryn. Are there any questions from staff? MIYASATO: Chair, I have a question. You know, I agree with the recommendation here. I just have one problem in this recommendation. On Page 3 within this recommendation, it designates Michael Edelstein as the project director and principal investigator, and, you know, this was, I believe this was the reason that this whole application was recalled after it got approved. That it violated the procurement law, and so I would like to get clarification on that. ARAI: In anticipation of any questions regarding the procurement process, a process that has been discussed several times when previous claims have been submitted before the Planning Commission, we did ask a representative from the, of the Department of Finance to be in attendance today, and that gentleman, Steve Wilhelm, is here. So, at your leisure, we can bring him forward. MIYASATO: Chair, would it be all right to bring him forward? HENKEL: Yes. Please come forward. ARAI: And, just to let the Commissioners know, to supplement his testimony, he may be making reference to a purchasing manual, so he was kind enough to go ahead and make copies for all of you, so we'll be distributing it now. HENKEL: Do you, could youI'm going to swear you in. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission? WILHELM: I do. HENKEL: Please state your name and proceed. WILHELM: My name is Steve Wilhelm. HENKEL: Proceed. WILHELM: Basically, I was asked to come here because my boss, the purchasing agent, Jeff Dansdill was originally supposed to be here, and he's out sick today. And, I'mso, I'm kind of EXHIBIT C 3 blind as to what is happening. That was the first I've heard anything about it was this morning. And, so, I'm just here to answer any procurement questions that you might have. MIYASATO: Okay, you know, this application came before us. We approved it prior, and it was brought to our attention that it had violated, that there was a possible violation of the procurement law because a specific individual was named to conduct the study within the approval. So, our decision was recalled, and we're in this attempt now to pass it and following the procurement procedures. I noticed that itMichael Edelstein is again named ahead of time as being the principal investigator and director. What would, does that comply with the procurement process or would we need to award the monetary amount then go through the RFP process. WILHELM: From what I understand, yes, it, we would have to either do an RFP process or use the professional service. The professional service could be done through the department if they have this category of work on their list of professional service, and if Mr. Edelstein and any others have signed up for it. That's one way. Otherwise, it would be the RFP process which would be, need to be followed. MIYASATO: Okay, so as this recommendation stands, we would probably need to just delete that portion of it and the rest— WILHELM: My understanding, yes. Like I said, I haven't followed this, so I don't know how he was selected in the first place. It was just a recommendation. If that was the process, just a recommendation for him to do it and give it to him right off the bat, then, that is a procurement problem. MIYASATO: Okay, so if, if he was the only one on the list for professional services, you still would have to go through that process? WILHELM: You still have to go through the process. MIYASATO: Okay. I would assume maybe he was the only one on this list so they just named him. WILHELM: Could be, but I don't know. MIYASATO: Okay, thank you. That's all. HENKEL: Are there any more questions for Mr. Wilhelm? Okay, you're going to be around, right? In case we have any more questions WILHELM: Yeah, I'll stay around. I'll stick around. HENKEL: Okay, thank you. WILHELM: Sure. EXHIBIT C 4 MIYASATO: Chair, could I HENKEL: Sure, Myles. MIYASATO: Daryn, you know, do you have an answer to that as far as this recommendation and if Dr. Edelstein is all right being named in this recommendation? ARAI: My understanding is that the, the claim by Ohana Ho`opakele is for the award, to ask for the awarding of—award of funds in order to conduct a psycho -social and community well-being study. That is the claim. Now, whether or not Dr. Edelstein, who constructed the scope of the study, would be ultimately the one who is, will conduct the study, that still has to be determined and qualified through the proper procurement process whether it's through an RFP or through a professional services study. My understanding, and maybe the Claimants can elaborate, is that I believe Dr. Edelstein did submit a request to be placed on the professional services list with the Planning Department so that—he will, he could be a consideration in the selection process. MIYASATO: Okay, so you know, I'm just not sure how to make a—it's something a little ahead of ourselves, but if we were to make a motion to accept the recommendations that would just be deleting that one paragraph and we'd be good? ARAI: I'm not exactly sure what paragraph you're speaking of, but I would say the motion should speak directly toward MIYASATO: —The funding ARAI: funding to conduct a psycho -social and community well-being study. MIYASATO: Okay, okay. ARAI: I think that's the best way to direct the motion. MIYASATO: Okay, thank you. HENKEL: Are there any more questions of staff? Then CLARKSON: Yeah, no, Iso, you're saying that we can take the proposal from Dr. Edelstein as a dead document that would specify the scope of work and the approximate costs rather than, as basically a sole source agreement with him. ARAI: That is essentially correct. The Commission should not be in ais not in the position to determine how to award it to a particular individual or entity. The Commission, the task at hand, is to determine whether or not the particular proposal by Ohana Ho`opakele should be offered funds from the Geothermal Asset Fund in order to provide the community mitigation project. EXHIBIT C 5 That is really the extent of the Commission's authority as I see it. And, I hope I have answered your question. And, I should also note that the Department itself does not make a recommendation. We sort of like just manage the paperwork, manage the review process as it should be, and in this particular instance, the claim adjuster has made specific findings and has now offered its recommendation, so any motion, I believe, should speak on whether or not you also accept or not accept the recommendations of your claim adjuster. HENKEL: Any other questions or comments? I kind of feel I'm in that movie, "Ground Hog Day" because we've, we've already addressed the issue and voted, you know, to release the funds, and then there were concerns about procedure that needed to be worked out, and so those have been worked out, right? ARAI: For the purpose of—you know, it depends how you define procedures. Initially, the recommendation back in 2015, the recommendation not only spoke to the procurement process but also spoke to the way the claim was structured. The Applicant, my understanding, has worked with the current claim adjuster, Jim Ferguson I believe is his name, and have addressed whatever concerns he had, and he felt compelled to now recommend that the claim be awarded. And, that is simply articulated in his letter to the Commission. So, that is the most we as a department can speak to. HENKEL: And the rest is up to the County's procurement department. ARAI: Once—if the Commission HENKEL: If it's approved. ARAI: decides to award it, then it becomes—right. That would be the part two of this whole process, and it has always been a part two of the whole process. HENKEL: Okay, so there is no applicant presentation. We can move right to public testimony here, right? Is that correct? ARAI: You do have the Claimants, so in so many words, they are the applicant, so if you have any questions specific to the claim itself or the study, you could ask questions of them. HENKEL: Okay, thank you, so we could have the Claimants come up. ARAI: Sure. HENKEL: And make a presentation and that would be I guess the officers of Ho`opakele. I think as representatives, you know, for Ho`opakele, I don't think you would be allowed to be a testifier also. Does that seem fair to you? To do one or the other? I mean, it's actually, you get more time now then you would as a testifier, anyway, as a presenter. Is that okay? Then—is that okay? EXHIBIT C 6 FUJIYOSHL I'll go back and testify. DEDMAN: Sure, sure. HATA-FINLEY: Use the microphone. HENKEL: Okay, well first, let's raise our hands and get sworn in. FUJIYOSHL No, if, you know, I cannot testify then maybe I'll go back and then testify later. HENKEL: That's fine. ALBERTINL I'll do the same, Pali. DEDMAN: Okay. HENKEL: Okay, would you raise your hand, and do you swear or affirm to tell the truth of this matter now before the Planning Commission? DEDMAN: Yes, I do. HENKEL: Thank you. State your name, where you reside DEDMAN: Palikapu Dedman. HENKEL: And speak— DEDMAN: Fourteen eighty Komohana Street. My presentation today was just to thank you guys for all the hard work, and I know was a lot of headache and for us Hawaiians it's a long time coming. We needed to have our concerns addressed, and this is one way it's being addressed, and I'm glad that we had a Commission to be understanding enough to approve all of this. It's been a long time, and a lot of minds, and a lot of people, and we're still here, not going nowhere so, just wanted this time to thank you guys. That's what it was for. Thank you. HENKEL: Thank you, Palikapu. Oh, I'm sorry. Are there any questions of Mr. Dedman from the Commission? Okay, you're good. Oh, I forgot one. CLARKSON: Yes, I have a question. I just wanted to get something clear in my mind. I take it from the name of your organization, that you see a, Native Hawaiians particularly Pele worshippers, in danger, and that this study would identify who those people are and the magnitude of the danger. What would you suggest would be the way in which that danger or suffering would be alleviated? In other words DEDMAN: —Well, through the study, of course. Right now, everybody's making assumptions, and for a Hawaiian that's been here and come from here, is not confused as you are. Who knows EXHIBIT C 7 who I am—you're the one that's confused so these are the studies that would make you understand who I am and what impacts are and how I live here in Hawaii as a Hawaiian. So, if you're ignorant, this is important for you to approve and agree and read after it's done so you'll understand the psychological impacts of altering theologies of people's beliefs. Nobody alters theologies of Christian, Buddhism, or Muslims, but for Hawaiians, what do you got? We don't have anything. So, a study would show that that's what we need and what is an impact on how our Hawaiians being treated with this spiritual understandings. CLARKSON: No, no, I'mI'm assuming, for the sake of my question, that the impacts are, are published and disclosed, but what would be the next step in your mind in terms of alleviating those impacts. DEDMAN: Well, the next step would be how County and government address issues or impacts because we got data to prove it. We don't have any data. This is what's important. That you get guidelines on how you treat Hawaiians from now on because we got something to show what impacts really are. CLARKSON: Okay. HENKEL: Thank you. Anymore questions for Mr. Dedman? Thank you. Now, we can move to the public testimony portion. I'm going to call your name. As before—some people are signed up to testify for both this number six on the agenda and number seven and you can, while you're up here, instead of calling you up twice, we'll let you go for six minutes, and you can address both issues. Maija over here will be keeping time. You get three minutes per issue. She'll hold up a sign that, you know, for when it's time to wrap it up. Okay, so Toby Hazel, Melinda FisherI'm just going in the order they signed up—Jim Albertini and Cory Harden, please come up. There's four chairs. Would you raise your right hands? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: Yes. HENKEL: Thank you. Please, we'll start with Cory. You got HAZEL: No. I'm Toby. HENKEL: Toby, I'm sorry. Toby, you've got six minutes to address both issues. HAZEL: Wow, that's a whole lot of time for me. HENKEL: Please proceed. Speak directly into the mic. HAZEL: Okay, so I'm Toby Hazel. I live in Nanawale and which is I think a mile and a half from the geothermal, and I bought that house in 1990 just prior to the blowout that happened then where people had to flee their homes in the middle of the night. And, I don't know what I, I actually wasn't in my house that night `cause I was commuting and I worked in Honolulu, EXHIBIT C and I commuted back and forth, but I knew a lot of people that were impacted, and I was told that the evacuation plan at that time was a man standing in front of, that worked for PGV, handing out hundred dollar bills to people so that they could leave and go get a hotel in Hilo. And that was the extent of the plan at that particular time. So, and I also took an interest because here I am living a mile and a half, and everyone kept talking about oh well, if you live a mile away, we're gonna let you get money to relocate. And, I, but then I started to learn about the wind rows, and the wind rows and the direction of the wind and that rows is kind of how it peels off from the plant depending on how the, what the wind is doing that particular time is how it's going to impact you, and at one point, we did have a monitor in Nanawale, but it disappeared. I don't know what happened to it. And, then there was another, a woman that lived just behind Lava Tree Park. She rented a small parcel of her land, and there was a whole megillah of testing and monitors that was set up there, and she got a little bit of rental money for allowing Department of Health to have that, that monitoring. And, then, that disappeared! So, I, you know, it's been a little bit strange kind ofI lived here now here 25 years so I'm kind of watching all of this, and it's led me to become more active and to testify on a variety of things because this stuff really makes people sick. And I think you're gonna hear today from people who were knocked unconscious in their homes with this Iselle Hurricane or whether it was down -classed and it wasn't really a hurricane. Whatever it was, it really hit Puna very, very, you know, in a big way, knocking down all kinds of trees. I actually was sort of semi -trapped in my house because a huge Albizia fell across and blocked the front door, but I was able to get out of there and drive out, you know, through the debris to the side. So, we see now, in this long period of time the kinds of things that can happen, and we've never been able to get this impact study that really shows, and I really want to say today that this, that these health studies need to also take into account children, older people, people who have chronic kinds of illnesses. What's it going to do to them? Cause we, we listen to what this doctor had to say whether you're Hawaiian or not Hawaiian. I mean, these things seem over long periods of time that they're really going to impact people, and, of course, a lot of us can't get, financially get out of our homes now. Never mind, you can't get out because the tree fell on it. We can't get out because, you know, the prices have dropped so low that what are we going to do? We're going to lose part of our whole life saving in our assets? And, again, we have this one mile limitation, but let me tell you, that air, those particulates are not respecting that one - mile limitation, and everything that I've learned about this is that, you know, these heavy particulates go down and lay in low lying areas. They lay for days in certain areas, and how you're gonna blow those off of there unless some big tradewind comes, it's gonna sit there and I don't, you know, I think the first, that first time around, nineties, there were all kinds of dead animals and birds, but you weren't supposed to talk about that. Anyhow, so, here we've got this—this idea that we're gonna have some money and be able to really look at this. I don't know who's going to be chosen, and whether they're really going to be somebody that's well informed scientifically; they're unbiased; and they're not going to start leaning, you know, towards these corporate interests. I mean, we have separation of church and EXHIBIT C 9 State, but we now have separation between government and people. And that's why us people keep coming back because of this kind of outrageous separation where we're not able to get, you know, the safety that we desperately need and with continuously anxiety disorder symptoms. I have them because I don't know what's going to happen next as far as this is all concerned, and I'm outside the zone, so-called zone of being able to be helped. Anyhow, so that's all about all I have to say, I think. I don't know how all this goes with the, between the Commission and the procurement and whether we're actually, I'm going to have to listen to what other people say about whether the investigation although the only last thing. These stupid studies, whatever they say, they have to go to the real estate agents. Those agents are still selling and reselling those homes right on, next to the plant itself. That has to stop. That is ridiculous. Okay, that's it. FISHER: My name is Melinda Fisher, and I own a house about a tenth of a mile right across from the geothermal plant. My husband's a stockbroker. He wants to be here, but he's gotta make money in the market. It's open right now. And, my daughter lives in the house. I bought a safer place up in Mountain View so she could come there in case lava came. So, I have a safer place. She is right across with her husband and her baby. She's nursing her baby. The baby her friends wouldn't even come to her birthday party. I had to have it up at my house, because they're afraid. They really don't know what happened with these last two leaks. It's a mushroom cloud. I hope you have all seen a picture of it. It's on You Tube. It's a giant mushroom cloud that comes out, and it's got hydrogen sulfide gas in it. Well, that kills sewer workers in my hometown of Fairview, Texas. Killed several of `em. Wichita Falls, it killed two of 'em—it's a month apart and Wichita Falls, Texas. If this mushroom cloud, the wind blows itif it comes and lands on your house or my way or this house, and it usually comes downwind. They all go to the plant entrance upwind and get their little monitor readings. This comes down, and you can hear it. It's deafening. It's just like a steam kettle. Can you imagine a steam kettle as big as a plant? And, they can hardly hear `em talk. I had gotten her—after Iselle, that happened when she was five months pregnant. And, then, it leaked. For five days it leaked, and they lied and said they were just cleaning out their pipes. And, you can look on You Tube, and you can look at the Puna Pono Alliance, and you can see the meetings where they're saying oh yeah, we're just cleaning out the tubes and then they go oh, we have it fixed. Five days later, they fix their leak. There's leaks all the time from there, and she evacuates. Nobody covers it. Nobody cares. Nothing is written anywhere. She's evacuated. I talked to the EPA and the guy said well, she's not supposed to evacuate, she's supposed to take cover. Well, what about the pentane? In January, the pentane could explode, and the plant itself is supposed to make the worst case scenario of who that's going to affect? Well, she's a—she's right on Pohoiki Road. She can see the plant. She saw the one at night-time. It was [an] orange mushroom cloud right up above her. It was deafening. She called me on the phone. "Mom, it's happening again!" She gets in her car. She comes, she has to open the gate and then close the gate `cause she has three big dogs. She leaves her husband there because he's afraid people are EXHIBIT C 10 going to rob all their mac nut farm. They won't buy their house out. They'll buy the house out, but not their 12 -acre mac nut farm, and the business associated with it. So, she stands to lose a whole lot. So, she's staying there at her place. She's worried about her husband. Okay, so she has a 15 -minute oxygen mask for herself and one for the baby that goes all the way around the baby. Well, now, the baby's two. She's gonna put that mask—she can teach her to put it on her face. HENKEL: Would you wrap it up, please, Melinda? FISHER: Okay. Well, she wants to put it on her face. Who should teach a child that? Okay, who should have to teach their 2 -year old to do that? And, then my grandbaby, I'm at Safeway, and she wants to go out at Burger King and see the smoke coming out of the top. She thinks poison gas turns into a giant mushroom cloud right up above every building. And, my daughter, she didn't want me telling anyone she's pregnant, but she's on bedrest now, and she can't be here. She's trying to stop having a miscarriage. She gets so upset by all of this stuff, and I would love to email you all my testimony. Thank you. HENKEL: Thank you. Cory, you're next, and you've got—you're signed up for both so you've got six minutes. HARDEN: Yeah, so Cory Harden with Sierra Club, Moku Loa Group. I'm just gonna speak on No. 6. First, I want to thank all you folks for your service on the Commission, and I just hope this study can get going. You all know it's been a really long time, and I just want to say a few things about Edelstein. I was looking at his resume to make sure that what he does is not just environmental stuff but recognized by other places. So, for example, he was project director for a New Jersey board of public utilities grant. He was a member of a team assembled by University of Mississippi to develop guidelines for post - Katrina social science research. He has given presentations at Caldwell University; at the American Association of Colleges and Universities; the New York City Bar Association, one of their conferences; the Eastern Psychological Association; the American Water Works Association. He led a conference organized by the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities, and he has given expert testimony in toxic tort litigation and administrative hearings. So, he's recognized not just by the environmental community but, you know, community as a whole. Thank you. ALBERTINL Aloha, I'm Jim Albertini. I'm the secretary of Ohana Ho`opakele, and also the president of Malu `Rina. And, just for a little bit of background, Malu `Rina was the base for the Big Island Rainforest Group that worked closely with the Pele Defense Fund back in the eighties, so we've been involved in this geothermal for a long time, and my intent today was simply to try and come to say thank you for moving this study forward. And, now I agree with Chairman Henkel that it seems like this "Ground Hog Day" movie or something that we're in a never- ending hole on this for some reason, and I hope that Planning Director Kanuha can clarify. My understanding is that Michael Edelstein is on the approved professional services list, and now EXHIBIT C 11 that the claim's adjuster has approved this study, which was the rub nearly two years ago, that I thought everything was smooth and its go. So, I hope the Commission can find a way to move this study forward. It's 2016. Geothermal was starting in the seventies or early eighties. It's a study late, but late better late than never, and I hope we don't have to be back here two years from now still dealing with some bureaucratic ground hog hole again. So, again, my intent was to say thank you. I am saying thank you, and please move this forward with Michael Edelstein as the lead. Mahalo. HENKEL: Thank you. Do any of the Commissioners have questions for the four testifiers before us right now? Okay, thanks. You may be seated, and we'll call the next four. Dave Kisor, Dana Keawe, Ronald Fujiyoshi, and Gary Harrold. KISOR: This is always so much fun. HENKEL: Would—let's get the legalities out of the way. Would you raise your right hands? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. HENKEL: Okay, please state your name and where you reside, and then proceed. Use the microphone. We'll start with Dave Kisor. He's the first on the list here, and you get six minutes. KISOR: I gotta hand it to you. You actually pronounced my name correctly. Well, and as far as Item 6 is concerned, I go, agree with Palikapu. It's, it's—it's a long time coming. This is Hawaii, and you might imagine Hawaiians would be concerned. All right, that's it. I can't speak for anybody but myself as a mutt, European mutt. So, now Item 7, the only reason we'll having a real problem here is because of what the, what the geothermal plant produces. Not just electricity. What comes out of the ground, what comes out of the ground is hydrogen sulfide, and now, most people don't realize that it's the second most toxic gas known after cyanide. And, it was taken off the hazardous air pollutant list because a number of industries complained. They just whined and sniveled because it would affect their profits. They get sued! So, they had—had the Congress under H. W. Bush remove it. And, they said it was only put on the list as ait was a clerical error. So, the second most toxic gas known was a mistake to be have been put on a hazardous air pollutant list. That's the kind of opposition we're up against, and that's what give the states, individual states the abilities to do their own hydrogen sulfide legislation. And, here we have the hourly weighted average, and that's where you can take a spike of hydrogen sulfide to just might come along and be enough to drop a bull moose in its tracks. And, what they do is after an hour, they recalculate everything out so essentially it would have, mathematically mind you, the hydrogen sulfide content of a fart. And, that's about it. And, they'll look at the, look at the reading and say EXHIBIT C 12 nothing happened. Couldn't possibly have happened because our readings show that it's nothing. And, that's, like I said, that's what we're up against here. And, whenever people go and sniff it, and they find itthere's people in this room right now who are really good at finding it, and they'll confront PGV, and they'll say, "did you have a leak?" "No." And, they'll have to keep going back and forth and back and forth until they finally say, "Oh! Oh yeah, we had a leak." Okay, but, oh, and from what I understand, I was at the last County Council meeting. When a particular Council member, committee member, if you mentioned anything about PGV, he didn't want to hear about it. He only wanted to hear natural disasters. He didn't want to hear anything about a man-made disaster, and that's what we had when Iselle hit. I was at the house, and when you hitI don't know if anybody up here up front has ever experienced the sound of Albizias falling. That crack. Boom! I mean, it's just unnerving. Believe me. I mean, my house is made out of rock. I got the earthbag house in Puna. Yeah, it was probably one of the biggest mistakes I ever made `cause yeah I have to—well, it was made for a desert, not for a rainforest. Go figure. So, anyway, but I had friends whose houses got hit. A buddy of mine, he and his wife, his wife and son, got out of there. He and a friend were trying to, you know, secure the place down and, of course, they were building the house. They have a little shack they're living in, and the house that they're building, of course, it couldn't be insured, and what happened? Two trees hit it and their catchment when "poomp!" And, that was all. You know, it was kind of an interesting time. I went to go see them, see how they were doing. I had to climb over six Albizias to get there. And, if it wasn't for neighbors with chainsaws, nobody would be able, you know, the rescuers that we were experiencing, the ones that came in and, you know, we'll here to save you, they couldn't have gotten in. But, that's, that's it for me. I'll let that go for now. I'll pass it on. HENKEL: Thank you, Dave. Dana Keawe? Dana, you're going for six and seven so you've got six minutes. KEAWE: My name is Dana Keawe. I'm born and raised from Kaimu, Kalapana. I've lived there for five decades of my life. I was there before the geothermal plant was ever built. Just being here is stress for me, okay? And so I support both of these health studies to be done for our community and our Kanaka Maoli that are from there. When you ask about the impacts of how this has affected us, I was there 30 years ago plus when that geothermal plant blew up. I was down in Kaimu, Kalapana miles away, and I heard that explosion and that sound afterward. And, then I walked in those forests afterwards with my cousins who go collect to go gather. There were no birds. There were no animals. There was no sound in the forest surrounding that place after that explosion. So, that it's just, when you talk about the impacts of how that's affected us, you know, that's huge. You know, that it'snobody talks about how this affects are environment down there and our forest and the life in our forest which for us is something sacred and everybody refers to it as the Volcano or Madam Pele or the Goddess Pele. We have called her Tutu Pele all my life. Tutu that's our ohana. And, so just having this geothermal plant all these decades and the EXHIBIT C 13 stress. You can see it in my—you can see it on my face and you can hear it in my voice, and I do not just sit here alone. I speak for many of our families from this area. Geothermal is a desecration to our lands, our people, and our ancestors. Tutu Pele. Nobody mentions this, but I come here to speak for her today. And, I come here to speak for my families that can't be here today. I waited almost two hours for my six minutes. I was there when Iselle happened. I live seven miles away from the geothermal plant. I was one of the people that got sick and passed out the following day. I was there just recently. We had two different gas leaks from that plant. I got sick and nauseous. I threw up on the second leak. And, the newspaper, they put this like there's like he said, you know. There's no "oh, it doesn't impact the people." You know, it does, and our media covers this stuff up. And, so I was here. I testified three years ago to have these studies done, and yes, it was approved. I don't know why I have to sit here again and ask for these studies to be done. They could have been completed already in the last three years. And, I support this beautiful man, Edelstein. He has the credentials to do this study as you heard from one of our testifiers. I recommend him as someone to do the study. I recommend whatever methods are done, the Kilburn methods are utilized in this study. And, there's so much more to say. I don't know where I am in my minutes, but I'm just humbly asking all of you to push this through. Please. You know, have the health studies done. It's been over 30 years, and no one has done any kind of studies on how it's affected our people, our environment, and our Kanaka Maoli and how we believe this geothermal plant being there is such a `eha. It's a hurt for our people, and so please just select this person to do these studies and get this and help our people to be able to create regulations. And, I also want to say that I support buffer zones around the geothermal plant I also support we have a school that's just a few miles away. We have the highest asthma rates. And, there's so much more to say, and these studies are so important. They need to be done. And, so, and if there, you know, the other part that I would like to talk about is evacuation plans for when we have another blowout. When we have, our Tutu Pele comes. You know, I was trapped in my home for a week when Iselle came. You know, the proper evacuation plans are set in place, and the private monitors are put up, you know. How can we trust PGV to do monitoring of the air when they're the very ones that are polluting the air, and they keep saying, "oh, you know, the levels are low," but meanwhile, we are getting sick. And so, you know, this is, I'd like to see our Civil Defense trained in this. Our first response trained in these. I'd like to know what alternative evacuation plans are when we are trapped in our homes and we can't get out. You know, there are so many other issues, and I will stop now because I think I finished my six minutes, but I just want to thank each and every one of you for taking this time to listen to me, and just know that I represent many people. I represent my ohana. I represent Tutu Pele. Mahalo. EXHIBIT C 14 HENKEL: Thank you, Dana. Next is Ronald Fujiyoshi on the list. FUJIYOSHL Aloha. My name is Ronald Fujiyoshi. I'm the treasurer of Ohana Ho`opakele, and I wanted to actually thank the staff of the Planning Department including from the Director on down for their cooperation and the Windward Planning Commission members. I know it's been a long time so there's been some changeover in membership on this, but this is a study that the studies, the psycho -sociological studies a long time coming. And, at first, it wasn't the, there were five organizations that put the proposal forward including Sierra Club, Pele Defense Fund, Malu `Rina, Puna Pono Alliance, and Ohana Ho`opakele, but it didn't quite fit the, the way the request was done. And, so even we—we were gratified that even with the first claims adjuster recommending it not be passed, the Planning Commission unanimously passed it over a year ago. And, here we are more than a, almost a year and a year and a half, even beyond a year and a half later, and it still hasn't been done. So, I'm glad that we finally, it seems that the pieces are together. That, it's—it's there. Now, I think for those of you who are new, the other proposal that was granted was the so-called Adler fund which was the geothermal public health study. And, in that, there was, at the end, there was no Native Hawaiian on that study, and in the last meeting, it was only then that the public of Native Hawaiians came forward and said how much was lacking in that study. And, so members who were on that study were part of the proposal that helped bring this proposal forward saying that it lacked the impact on Native Hawaiians. And, so it's not just a people only think about the health defects of geothermal but they haven't really studied the psycho - sociological impact on what it means to be Native Hawaiian and how it affects you. Now, besides being the treasurer of Ohana Ho`opakele since 2000, I'm also a pastor of the `Ola`a First Hawaiian Church, and I'm a Christian pastor and, you know, I'm part of this because our church in 1993, we had our president of the United Church of Christ come to Hawaii and apologize to the Native Hawaiians for the complicity of our church in the overthrow. At that time in 1993, when I was part of that, we didn't really know the complicity of the church in the overthrow. And, now, we're finding out even more, and so, recently, I found out that the five top people in our church drafted the Bayonet Constitution that forced Kalakaua to give up more of his rights and give it to his all -white advisory group. And, so, we're saying, you know, the church, you know, my church people, you know, because of their racist attitudes, they demeaned the culture that was here and just treated them as pagans, and that kind of impact has gone on up till this point with the banning of the Hawaiian language, rewriting of history of the Hawaiian people so that people grew upI grew up not knowing that history. And, I grew up here in Hawaii. And, so I think we all know that this study is a long coming, and it will help really provide some of the data that we can now move on into the future and correct some of the injustice that was done in the past, so thank you very much for working with us and bringing this proposal forward. Thank you. HENKEL: Thank you. Gary Harrold, you're next. You've got three minutes. EXHIBIT C 15 HARROLD: Yes, thank you. As a lifetime active member of the Sierra Club, both here and in California, I support this, having this study be implemented. It's most important—I've seen this kind of disregard for people of all income levels living near the Richmond Chevron Plant across the bay from San Francisco. It's a toxic neighborhood from this horrible refinery, and the people were just sick and evacuating for years and years and years. This is the same thing. I really don't have much more to say other than I guess you want to know where I live. I live in Hilo. And, that is about it. Thank you for listening. HENKEL: Thank you. Are there any questions from the Commission to the testifiers before us? Thank you. You may be seated. We've got two more signed up to testify. If anybody else is interested, please sign in. Sofia Wilt and Robert Petricci. Would you raise your right hands, and do you swear of affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: Yes. HENKEL: Thank you. Proceed, Sofia. You're first. Three minutesOh, I'm sorry, you've got WILT: —Both, yeah. HENKEL: —six minutes. WILT: Aloha, my name is Sofia Wilt. I live in lower Leilani Estates. I've lived at that residence for about ten years. Lived on the island since 1994. Regarding the first measure number 5. Is that right? Five? HENKEL: Six. WILT: Six? Sorry. Iacross the board, I support all the health studies, and I just want to say regarding the Native Hawaiian health study, I can'tI'm obviously not Native Hawaiian—but, I think there's a very clear trend going on that we should, you know, connect the dots, and we know what's happening in North Dakota right now. We've got native people disenfranchised by an energy company, and this is something that we've seen before, and this is something that needs to stop. And, I think it's a really good opportunity to, you know, get on the right side of history with this one. So, across the board, I support the native peoples' health study. So, for myself, it's a very interesting situation because when I moved into my home ten years ago, I was very athletically active, very, very healthy, and in ten years, my health has declined. I have experienced a number of health problems that I haven't necessarily been able to connect the dots for. And, when I talked to my neighbors, and there's cancers and there's miscarriages, and there's odd pneumonias, and there's all these different things, they, too, aren't able to piece together why they've had these issues. And, so as someone who actually does work in natural health and knows quite a bit about this, one of the things I can tell you is, there's not one doctor that when you go to them is going to EXHIBIT C 16 say, "tell me about the chemicals you've been exposed to. Where do you live? What sort of things might you be exposed to." So, people discount their health issues because they say, "well, my doctor doesn't, doesn't, didn't say anything." Doctors aren't trained to. They don't know anything about that. That's why this health study would be so important is to have someone who has an understanding of environmental illness. Because a quick Google search will tell you hydrogen sulfide, sulfide dioxide, pentane, radon, mercury, arsenic—all these things that we residents are exposed to chronically—are health hazards. It doesn't take much to figure it out, but do we know the concentrations? Do we know? We don't really, really know. So, I think one of the biggest concerns is that just about any other geothermal plant in the world, people are about ten miles away. We have people—there's a woman here whose house is a tenth of a mile away. We're entirely, we're much closer than is normal. And, with that kind of proximity and lack of actual data to tell us what's going on and all these people getting sick, I think it's a no-brainer. I think it absolutely is time. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that I needed to add to it. I think that's it. Thank you so much. HENKEL: Thank you. Robert? Three minutes. PETRICCL Actually, I want to speak on six [seven], too, if I could. HENKEL: Okay. PETRICCL Aloha, Chairman, Commission, thank you for having us here, and I'm representing Puna Pono Alliance, and I have lived in Pohoiki since before any of the geothermal plants, including the experimental plant began to operate so I've seen all of it. I've seen all of the accidents. I've seen all of the developments and changes and things that have happened over the last 35 years that this has been going on. So, there, first, I want to say we—we thank you for supporting the Native Hawaiian cultural impact study, and we hope that gets done right away. For the health study, we've got a lot of concerns about what's coming up here where additional funds are being requested because there were proposals that met the funding requirements and the proposal we believe that didn't meet the funding requirement would be from UH Hilo which would not be a study that we would have confidence in anyway. So, it seems that, you know, you had study applicants that were, would have been supported by the community and felt that were, you know, reliable. And, instead—this goes back to the administration, and the administration has been trying to obstruct this health study since Billy Kenoi got into office. And, I can say that because we got funding for a study passed at the County Council, and he vetoed it, and he set up the Mayor's health study group which I was on for two years, and we did that work. And, then, I found a video recently of Jeff Melrose who was Mr. Kenoi's staff saying that they brought us in specifically to kill the Kilburn study and to keep us close and to keep an eye on us, EXHIBIT C 17 and they are now trying to steer that study, in my opinion, to the University of Hawaii at Manoa, who they've also, the University of Manoa was responsible for HGP -A, which was the original experimental plant that operated without any pollution controls, open vented into the community for eight years, and that made—that was, I never was involved in activism and I never thought I would be, but after that. I had lived there before that plant began to operate, and that plant made me so sick, and I saw so many people in that community that suffered because of that power plant. And, you say, well, how can that happen? You know the State Department of Health and the Civil Defense, they wouldn't let that happen. I think it was everybody really wanted to get off oil, and this—you know, I thought geothermal was a great idea. I thought, you know, get off oil, and then I experienced it. I can tell you. It's a disaster. It's a nightmare. And, but the problem with the State and the County is that they get millions of dollars from geothermal that they do not get from solar, our fish, our forestry, or anything else. It's called mineral royalties. So, the State has a financial interest. The County has a financial interest to seeing this power plant operate, and I believe that we've become a sacrificial community for corporate interests and for, for State funding. And, of course, we need money, and the government wants to have funding sources, and it sounds like a great thing, but you cannot sacrifice whole communities for that. And, people, you know, I've heard, that said that oh, it's all the same people that keep coming and complaining, and that's not true. I've been here for 35 years. I've been before every Council, every Planning Commission, Department of Health for 35 years, and I can tell you hundreds and hundreds of different people have, have come and said these same things. You know, there's no data. There's no monitoring. Why not? You know, if—if this is a safe power plant, and if it's so great, why didn't they put in source monitoring that would actually tell how much is being emitted and then have it modelled. That's what all other industries do. As far as I know, PGV is the only industry in the State of Hawaii that does not have source monitoring. They put three air samplers out in the community, and when they have an accident, if that plume happens to hit one of those, you get some kind of reading. But—but, that's hot gas, and it goes up and it comes down in the community over those that's it. That's, there is no data to determine any of this stuff And, after 35 years, you have to say, how is that possible? How is that possible? So, you know, I think that you need to really dig deep here and say, you know, this has gone on for long enough. Everybody's bent over backwards to help this power plant, and it's time now that we do something to determine, you know—if the power plant is safe, why are they afraid to have real monitoring and real data that would prove that? If it was me, and I really believed I wasn't hurting anybody, I would want that data, and I would have put that data, I would have put that stuff in a long time ago. So, I think there's a real problem there, and I think there's a real problem with the Mayor or whoever the administration coming here and saying we want more money and stalling this thing again and—and, I believe, trying to steer it to a pre-, a pre -determined conclusion that will give them the same results that they want. And, I, you know, I don't want to see that happen. And, the money would then be gone and wasted, and we would still have a community that says we EXHIBIT C 18 have no confidence in this, in this study, and we'd be in the same place we are now with all that money gone. HENKEL: One minute. You still got a minute. PETRICCL Okay. I'm done. Thank you. HENKEL: Thank you. Are there any questions for the witnesses before us? Testifiers I mean? Thank you. You may be seated. So, Palikapu, do you wish to respond to any of that? We gave a previous presenter a chance to respond, to present witnesses or testifiers? DEDMAN (from audience): No, just thanks. HENKEL: Okay, I just wanted to give you that opportunity. In that case, is there anybody else that wants to testify? Then, I would look for a motion to close public testimony. MIYASATO: I make a motion to close public testimony. MOSES: Second. HENKEL: It's been moved and seconded. All in favor, say "aye." COMMISSIONERS: Aye. HENKEL: Opposed? All right. That portion of the agenda item is closed. I would look for a motion to action and discussion. CLARKSON: Actually, I would like to move that the Commission enter into executive session to consult with its attorney regarding questions and issues pertaining to the Commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5. HENKEL: It's been moved to enter executive session to consult the Corp. Counsel. Are there, is there a second? In that case, the motion fails. Is there another motion for action? MIYASATO: Chair, I'd like to make a motion. HENKEL: Go ahead. MIYASATO: I move to grant the release of $293,760 from the Geothermal Asset Fund to Ohana Ho`opakele based on the claim adjuster's recommendation to grant the claim to conduct a psycho -social and community wellbeing study in response to geothermal development on the Big Island. IKEDA: Second. EXHIBIT C 19 HENKEL: It's been moved and seconded. Discussion? I have oneI, you know, I read through Dr. Edelstein's experience and vast knowledge on the subject, and I am, I'm confident in him. Is it correct that he is on the approved list so that we might expedite instead of going to a request for proposal that he could—he's on the list for consideration? Would that speed things up? ARAI: Yes, Dr. Edelstein is on the list in two specific categories. I think one was for environmental studies and the other was for socio-economic studies. So, I think he qualified in two categories. HENKEL: Okay, because I mean this time I'd likeI'd like us to pass it and actually have something done in an expeditious manner. I mean, that's, we haven't voted yet, but that's, that's where I'm at. ARAI: Just to clarify, just because he's identified in two categories, there is still a process to go through to select that, an individual who is qualified in those two categories. So, I just wanted to let you HENKEL: I understand, but I mean, to me but that's more easily done than to ARAI: Possibly HENKEL: put out proposals for everyone. ARAI: Understood. HENKEL: He's already submitted his. Anyway, are there any more, is there any more discussion on the motion to approve? Then, can we do a roll call vote? ARAI: Yes, I can, sure. Okay, Commissioner Miyasato? MIYASATO: Aye. ARAI: Commissioner Ikeda? IKEDA: Aye. ARAI: Commissioner Clarkson? CLARKSON: No. ARAI: Commissioner Dela Cruz? DELA CRUZ: Aye. ARAI: Commissioner Moses? EXHIBIT C 20 MOSES: Aye. ARAI: And Mr. Chairman. HENKEL: Aye. ARAI: Mr. Chairman, motion carries with five aye votes, one nay. HENKEL: Thank you. The discussion ended at 11:53 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary Windward Planning Commission EXHIBIT C 21