HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-08-22 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes
Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
Game Management Advisory Commission
County of Hawai’i
Minutes
Meeting Date: Tuesday, August 22, 2017
Time: 6:30 p.m.
Place: Hawai’i County Building – Council Chambers
I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:30 pm.
Willie-Joe Camara, District 1 – here
Dwayne “Ike” Yoshina, District 2 – here
District 3 – O’Keefe - present
Naniloa Poglen, District 4 - here
Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 - here
Kenneth “Kalani” DeCoito, District 6 - vacant
Bronsten-Glen “Kalei” Kossow, District 7 - here
Teresa Nakama, District 8 – here
District 9 - vacant
Quorum established
ALSO PRESENT: Malia Hall, Corporation Counsel
Donna Urban-Higuchi, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Teresa Nakama moved for approval of the July 25, 2017 meeting. Seconded by
Willie-Joe Camara and carried unanimously by voice vote.
GUESTS: Tony Sylvester
Kanalu Sproat, Hawaii DLNR Wildlife Biologist
Steve Bergfield, DLNR, Hawaii Branch Manager
Chairperson Tom Lodge introduced James O’Keefe as a new commissioner
for Council District 3. Jim is currently a Chief Range Safety Officer, an NRA Training
Councilor/Instructor, President, Big Island Gun Club and was a member of On-
Target.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
IV: STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC:
None
V. COMMUNICATIONS:
A. FINANCIAL REPORT:
James O’Keefe moved to accept the Financial Report. Seconded by Dwayne
“Ike” Yoshina and carried unanimously by a voice vote.
B. LEGISLATIVE REPORT: Update on County of Hawaii Gun Range
Progress.
TL: Jon Sabati and Ryan Kohatsu are not present. Both provided statements and
will be read.
WC: Ryan Kohatsu’s statement on State GMAC. Sorry I wrote this really with little
time to dress up edit. Update on the last state GMAC meeting last Thursday.
Commissioner and Vice Chair Buchanan drafted a letter requesting the BLNR
to postpone aerial shooting for Waianae Mountains to seek further community
solutions. Also, a committee was formed containing members of the public
and Oahu commissioners voted on and approved by the commission – do not
know the status of BOD receiving the letter or a response yet. There was an
opportunity for priorities on the agenda - between the first meeting and last I
went around a few hunting communities and picked up a few things being
general consensus and agreements is typically the low-hanging fruit and
easiest to accomplish. I rank these items accordingly. Of course, this is just
my sense – community can change or add:
1) Poaching – every community or individual hunting on public land on Big
Island expresses some level of concern regarding poaching. I have not yet
met somebody – someone legally hunting public land that wants poaching
to increase or stay at sustained levels. Agreement seems easy on this on
so in an effort to curb poaching made a request to publish hunting
violations on the DOFAW hunting – the newsletter. If unable to do this,
perhaps community can request it of district DOCARE managers and
publish it that way. Doing little perceived efforts were not deterring
poaching only undermines the legal hunting of community and stifles
progress in many areas related to hunting or game management.
2) Hunting Rules – find things that the community can agree on. Create an
efficient package for changes and get that done. A big package can take
seven years. He does not see why a small one should take even a year.
One year, three to four things done a year, is better than seven years
maybe getting something done. Does that make sense?
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Minutes – August 22, 2017
3) Hunter Check Station - at tree planting road – some members of the pig
hunting community expressed poaching concerns with this area during the
off-season and also opportunities for volunteers to man during the season
maybe better data might come of that also. So that’s another suggestion.
4) Cooperative Game Management Areas – on other state lease lands. Not
sure of the prospects here and would not want to distract from managing
game on lands we already can public hunt but if there are easy ones to
consider here perhaps we should.
5) Just the thought of this now having gone to Oahu and seen inaccessibility
of the department to the community. I would like to facilitate talk story
sessions with the Big Island hunting community with either myself, all Big
Island Commissioners and DOFAW – if they would like to join in .I just
need a venue so if anybody can throw some ideas out for a meeting.
Future State GMAC Meetings – I will try to teleconference in from DOFAW
Hilo – produce access to this meeting for local Big Island community and
conserve on the budget of my flying wherever we can per the Sunshine
Law public will be notified if we can get this going.
6) This item is not necessarily in order but one that came out of the
commission priorities. Vice Chair Buchanan and others mentioned the
concerns of Big Island hunters – an idea to go area by area and figure out
what we are doing is a serious task but one I think the community needs.
We do not know whether we are coming or going with our public areas.
What is stay and what is to open and to fenced and eradicated in the
future or what can we do nothing with? This is a fundamental core root of
our problem. An area may be designated for game production or perhaps
mixed-use but little to nothing is allowed for game production or mixed-use
pending reviews, assessments, and bureaucratic red tape that seems to
never get done. I am not sure progress in this field can ever be made.
Decisions for priorities from the top are always leaned towards
environmental community causes. I feel our game exists by accident –
hardly by design. I feel hunting exists as this control measure or statutory
obligation – not as a legitimate concern interest group among the public.
This is pretty obvious. Everyone knows this but I wanted to assure the
County GMAC and community this is also echoed at the state level – at
the State GMAC. However, the last thing I want to leave the community
with is communication. I want a venue to hold a regular hunting
community get-together at least for East Hawaii. I know Jon is working on
the same. I’d like some ideas and help from the community on this one.
Thank you. Ryan Kohatsu.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
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NP: A letter from Jon Sabati. Sorry – been so busy getting ready for my wife’s
surgery and meeting with doctors. Please share a message from me that I will
be hosting district meetings in West Hawaii. Dates, times and locations to be
announced once I have secured meeting areas for Waimea, Kailua-Kona,
Kealakekua and Kau. I have been receiving concerns from hunters about a
game management plan for Big Island, habitat improvements and wild fire
prevention in Puuanahulu and needed changes in the hunting rules and
regulations. We will be working to address these concerns and we need
hunter input on other concerns and field reports from hunters. Hunters can
email me at – hard to say – or message me on Facebook – Jon Sabati.
W.H.GMAC. Ryan can share information on the last state commission
meeting. Ryan is doing an excellent job on the board and is a great asset for
the hunters. Tom, Mahalo to you and the Hawaii County Game Management
Advisory Commission for all you do. So if anyone wants these Facebooks
addresses or email addresses – just ask me and I’ll give it to you. Thank you.
DY: Requested that the State GMAC minutes to be sent to the County GMAC.
3. Anthony Sylvester II – Vision for the Creation of State GMAC as
it relates to Game Management for the State of Hawaii
TL: Yes. We will ask them for such tomorrow.
Tony Sylvester II, past Chairman of County Game Management Advisory
Commission was instrumental in putting together the GMAC in 2013.
TS: When Tom asked me to give a talk about GMAC, I went through my old notes
and found interesting information about other Management plans and how it
is being done. I called the state of Montana’s Wildlife Management Plan, and
I thought that’s where we need to be. I just copied a lot of their ideas right
here. I think it’s worthwhile for us to actually go through this cause it’s so
hard to identify or say what we want and everything and when there are
limitations with the departments and things that they can do – especially the
guys on the ground.
It’s interesting working with Kanalu, he’s done a tremendous job trying to
push that forward and that’s a great model so far as game management can
be with all the restrictions. I’d like to go through a successful plan and then if
we listen carefully then we kinda pick out a few of the things of like where
we’re at and maybe focus on some of the things that we really need and I’ll
point out the ones that are really the problems for us here and why it’s hard to
do this – obviously because our animals introduced species so I can’t directly
compare to something from Montana.
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I like the principle of Wildlife management which is based on solid biological
information. It must include management of humans because our activities
affect wildlife. Good wildlife management must benefit plants and other
animals – not just one species of wildlife. When we look at a place to
manage animals – we have to look at all the wildlife there. Good wildlife
managements put animal numbers at a level we can live with – not too many
and not too few. Good wildlife management must balance animal’s numbers
with a habitat – food, shelter, water and space – available for those animals.
That’s always been a big one for me. I raised animals for many years and
that’s the frustrating part because we talk about hunting and we talk about
preservation and so forth, but I have always used the words before that the
animals – they need a sanctuary too – they need someplace where they can
go and rest too – otherwise they’re constantly under hunting pressure,
constantly being eradicated from here and there and there’s no place for our
game animals to take a break too, so, other than some management
strategies by closing certain areas and things like that and then that falls back
to some of Ryan’s concerns with poaching - that these animals don’t get a
chance to rest because people are sneaking in there doing whatever. And
then finally, a good wildlife management must balance conservation, wise use
of the resource – not total preservation non-use of the resource. And that’s
been my biggest thing and it’s on this list and I think that’s what kills us here is
we kinda lose that between conservation and preservation. And I don’t know
what we can do about it – I don’t have an answer for that but interesting are
wildlife management tools – management plans describe the tools that a
wildlife manager will use for keeping wildlife within the current capacity of its
habitat. These plans must be flexible since the wildlife populations, habitat
factor and social tolerances. It’s also important to note that the best wildlife
management plan often uses a combination of all the management tools
available. And I know we talked about it in the past – if it’s dry years or if it’s
wet years, you know, our wildlife managers don’t necessarily have the
opportunity to adjust for things like that and I don’t know how we can help
them with that. To develop a management plan – wildlife managers must
collect good information on habitat and wildlife numbers throughout the year.
Every year they determine the type of tools needed. And that was my
question to Robert Kramer – the State Commissioner there – if on a state
level – that in the past I was able to get like for Mauna kea I could get the
hunter hours and hunter success and so forth – that kind of information is
available but what I’d like to see is the department put something more
comprehensive together – I mean being that we’re losing a lot of areas to
hunting within these 900,000 acres that we have to hunt – whether it’s Kipuka
Ainahou – Mauna Kea – and the species – I would like to see a more
comprehensive report of that. Cause I’m sure that’s changed a lot now – the
amount of people that are hunting versus the success if they’re actually out
there, you know, how much people – I know a lot of people that don’t go
hunting now cause there’s just too few areas and there’s more restrictions
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and things and it’s just no conducive to people working and just saying, “Hey,
I got a day off – I’m gonna go hunt.” You know, you gotta wait, you gotta plan
so it’s more organization for our hunters too. So I’ve seen a lot of people just
back off or they start booking trips elsewhere because they figure, oh, well, if
I’m gonna go through all that, you know, I can go to Montana, Wyoming or
New Zealand of wherever. I think that would help us out a lot. And I think
would help us too when we go to the legislature or when we talk about things
cause we can show that, this is what we’ve been talking about, the numbers
are down, the amount of hunters is down or the hunters are up but the
success is down and so forth. It gives figures and something real in our
hands instead of just everybody talking in different directions about what they
think is happening in particular areas. And I think that’s something that’s
doable by the department – it may cost a little more or have to assign
somebody a little more time to put something like that together but I think that
would be helpful for us all around. The social tolerance is interesting - it’s the
number of animals a landowner or the public will allow in an area. I thought
that was really interesting. We don’t have a lot of landowners, there’s private
land that you can hunt but for us it’s public land but I just thought of social
tolerance – if the environmental community – let’s say they see a bunch of
goats on the down side of Puuanahulu, Puuwaawaa, “Oh, we gotta get these
goats out of here – there’s goats everywhere. This falls right under social
tolerance – if people drive by they don’t really know – they see stuff like that
and they’ll assume that’s a linear. I don’t know how to address, but I think
that really harms us. It really does. When people see stuff like that not
knowing – so how do we educate the public as well on what is and what is not
– the Hawaiian Homes Lands parcels is a classic example of that, yeah,
people see hundreds of sheep and, “Oh, you know, what are you guys
complaining about?” I constantly hear this stuff – just talking casually with
people and I get tired of explaining it already – I just say whatever – OK. So
the next one is in order to properly manage any wildlife – biologists and
managers must have a good understanding of all the animals, research
biologists and the rest of us to learn all we can about animal and
management. And then the objectives include: habitat needs for the individual
species and evaluate the impacts of the variety of land use practices. Study
and explain the population dynamics of wildlife on a varying habitat and
environmental conditions – so I think more stuff like that too to educate the
hunters as well. And I started thinking the other day how we just get a hunting
license and we go hunt and if we don’t pay attention to anything we don’t
know jack. So how do we make hunters pay attention more or understand
more? I mean, I know we take a hunter safety class and that’s it but, I mean,
it should be part of getting our license every year that maybe there’s a
pamphlet that comes with it or there’s something that you have to look
through and answer a few questions, you know, sign it off that you read it and
then you get your hunting license and you can to it on line or whatever – just
so that people kind of have an idea of what’s going on for that hunting year or
whatever. I don’t know if it’s a global but it’s just stuff that I’m throwing out
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there. And then, evaluate the social and the economic values of wildlife and
then, of course, educate other biologists, wildlife resource agencies and
legislatures and the public of the results of the research and the needs of the
animals’ habitat in public. They’re doing this in other states so I’m not thinking
of anything new – how do we get that minutia on that, right? And then,
surveys of the wildlife management areas and so forth – how many animals
were harvested – this all goes under what I was saying – trends in animal
population levels – hunter pressure – harvesting patterns and the biological
information of the animals and something I found interesting too and I know
cause I raise sheep and pigs – but the key to managing many species of
wildlife is to improve the survival or recruitment of their young. And that’s very
important. I think that I try to do that controlling the predator population. And
then wildlife management areas – I think that’s kinda what Ryan is also
talking about too – the cooperative management – the wildlife management
areas provide another tool for wildlife managers – these are lands which are
set aside for the purpose of increasing wildlife numbers by protecting wildlife
in key habitats. And then with that question is I saw – they removed the sign
for Mauna Kea GMA – is that – does anybody know anything about that? The
sign was removed a couple of weeks ago.
\[Discussion\]
TS: Yes, the yellow signs. I passed it for 25 years and I saw it removed the other
day. It’s not a GMA? Or nobody even knows what it is now? Or is that parcel
going to go back to Hawaiian Homes Land.
DY: It’s no longer a GMA. It was changed a few years ago. Remember we had the
discussion?
TS: True - but they were leasing above the cattle guard. That was you guys’ were
still leasing that?
That’s a big bird hunting area. Is that gonna be off of bird hunting then this
season?
S: The area that you’re referring to was part of the Kipuka Ainahou lease and
that was lost when we lost what everybody refers to as Kipuka Ainahou along
Saddle Road. That TMK right at the Mauna Kea Access Road and then the
property from Kanakaleonui south towards Ahinahina. That is also part of that
– that was also part of that lease.
TS: Is it gonna be posted then and stuff for this bird season? I hunt there every
year...
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S: That’s something – that’s a huge area – we can put out a certain number of
signs but it also falls on us as hunters to know where we’re hunting and be –
we hand out maps so that people can identify where they’re at.
TS: The last one is the wildlife’s future and I think that really closes us off really
good. The future of wildlife doesn’t just depend on management programs. It
depends mostly on people. People whether they are hunters, gatherers or not
– need to learn all they can about wildlife and they need to care about
whether it’s managed properly and then here’s a list of things that you can do
to for a brighter future: support programs to maintain and approve wildlife
habitat – this includes knowing how important private lands are in providing
critical habitat and recreational opportunities. Support your state wildlife
agency in its efforts to manage wildlife and people. Also support conservation
activities locally and nationally. Realize that hunting and trapping and
gathering are important management tools used to benefit wildlife populations
and their habitat. Don’t be afraid to tell your friends about these benefits.
When people learn more about a role of hunting and gathering – most often
they support these important roles. Observe the highest ethical standards
while hunting, be willing to encourage other hunters to do the same will help
too – and be willing to contribute money and your skills to help wildlife. If we
all start today there will always be a wildlife for everyone to enjoy. Not to
plagiarize but most of that is from Montana but I thought it as – I enjoyed
reading that so...
DY: All of these things that he talked about emanates from a policy. I think there
was a joint resolution in the legislature – about two years ago? Unless the
spirit of that resolution is put into practice then all of this stuff that he talks
about is just words. So how do you get the resolution and the spirit and the
intent of that resolution to be made policy for the state? That’s where it’s at
right now, you know you have well trained, well intentioned staff – they gotta
get the “follow me” to put it down on the ground and right now and for the past
twenty, thirty years we haven’t had that. And this is not aimed at anyone, it’s
just that our state laws do not speak to the management of wildlife. I think that
the statewide game management advisory commission will do something
about that. We have that resolution and we should do something with it.
TL: I agree with you completely on the resolution – but I did have a question for
Steve or Kanalu. Has the Department in the last year shared that resolution or
the intent of that resolution with you?
WC: Is it possible to add Steve on the agenda to discuss Kipuka Ainahou? A lot of
people don’t understand what happened there first of all – or even know that
anything even happened because it seems like it’s kind of a free-for-all right
now. People are there hunting all the time all the way up and down...
MH: We can put that on the next agenda.
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WC: Can I?
MH: If you ever want to put something on the agenda you can email it to Tom. You
guys are allowed to talk to each other, you know, two at a time, so if it’s
something that you want to put on then we can put that on the next agenda.
DY: This question is for Malia. If the board wants to talk about something we can
vote to put it on the agenda right.
MH: Yes, you can. You mean the current agenda or you mean the next agenda?
DY: The current agenda...I think 2/3 majority?
MH: Let me check on that, you can move on and I’ll come back.
DY: OK.
WC: I’d like to add this on the next meeting. Bird season is coming up – that’s a
huge chunk of pretty good bird hunting.
TS: I know I went to train the dogs too.
WC: Is the training only in Kaohe?
TS: Yeah, but I see a lot of people up there.
WC: Well, that’s DOCARE’s problem, not ours...
TS: OK. I’m assuming they’re training their dogs...
WC: If we can reach out to Steve guys to give us a short presentation on putting
up a map so we can understand where to hunt.
5. Kanalu Sproat, Puuwaawaa/Puuanahulu Habitat Conservation Plan
KS: I’m Kanalu Sproat, Biologist for Division of Forestry and Wildlife – West
Hawaii District.
JM: I’m Joey Mello’s counterpart. I’m not nearly as good looking as him though.
I’m here to give an update on our HCP and some of the changes that we
made – not big changes it’s more just restructuring and the way we’re
handling the game mammal management in the HCP at Puuwaawaa and
Puuanahulu. I also want to take some time to update on the research that
we’ve been doing out there.
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MH: To answer Ike’s question - In the interest of the public, it’s usually – you guys
could vote for a 2/3 vote but I would suggest against that because if there’s
people that want to come – other hunters that want to hear about that and
especially if it’s gonna be informational in the sense of maps and such – then
I would encourage putting it on the next agenda so that the public can have
notice of it.
\[Discussion\]
DY: Yeah, for my edification – can you tell us what the requirements are?
MH: To put something on the agenda?
DY: Yes.
MH: At the meeting, you would have to have a 2/3 vote of the commissioners
present to have a quorum.
KS: Status update for the HCP – November 20, 2015, is when the HCP went to
public review – we came and presented here at that time – Edith and myself –
in January 2016 the environmental assessment that has to accompany the
HCP went for public review as well. So the HCP public review is about a 5
month public review cause it’s a large document and the EA was only a 30
day public review. From April 2016 until now, we’ve been trying to address
the public comments. We didn’t have a lot of comments on either the HCP or
the EA but most – not all – the vast majority of the comments were
supportive, which was good. There were a couple of comments that were
made that we thought we needed to spend a little more time to address – I
think Jim Cogswell – our State Wildlife Manager came and kinda caught us all
by surprise saying that we were going to do an EIS which was after
discussing it with him – that’s not how we decided to go – not an EIS – so we
decided to do a revised environmental assessment. So we’re basically
amending the EA that we already did. The amendment is to include game
mammal management. It wasn’t in the EA at first and so we’re now including
it. We also made some changes – not much – some small changes to the
HCP based on comments. So the HCP went back or just earlier last week we
sent the draft of the HCP to the Endangered Species Recovery Committee
(ESRC) so they have a month to review it before we’re on their agenda on
September 14 so Edith and myself and others from DOFAW will be at the
ESRC to discuss the HCP with them. We anticipate – so the HCP has to be
approved by the ESRC before the board can see it and then the board can
review it and make their decisions based on our comments and the ESRC’s
comments. We are drafting a scope of work for that environmental
assessment – the revisions of the environmental assessment right now – we
hope to have something out in the next couple of weeks to get contractors to
bid on it – and hopefully, by the end of the year – beginning of next year – we
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can have that finished by then and then HCP and the EA together will go the
board for approval. So we’re looking at hopefully spring 2018 to get that done.
Before I get into the management stuff – I would say the biggest change that
we made for game mammal management and the HCP was that we removed
the game mammal management plan from, well, I turned it into more of a plan
and then we took it out of the body of the HCP and included it as an appendix
to the HCP – you guys can stop me and ask me questions whenever you
want. The HCP – the covered activities on the HCP are meant to cover the
actions that we do to create the exclosures where we’re gonna protect and
mitigate for game management outside of those exclosures. So inside of
those exclosures there’s no game mammal management, right? We’re gonna
remove all of the game mammals from there. And everything outside of the
exclosure the HCP basically is an application to the state for a permit to
remove or to take endangered species outside of those exclosures. So the
actions that we do to enhance and improve game outside of the exclosures
doesn’t matter on an endangered species – for endangered species because
that will have been mitigated for inside the exclosures. That’s the reason we
took it out of the main body of the HCP because the HCP is only the actions
within the exclosures. So it’s not in the body but it’s still the appendix in the
appendix to the HCP. That document is also going to be the main source of
the environmental assessment that we are having – that we’re gonna contract
out.
TL: When you say that game management plan is an appendix to this –I’m just
throwing out words here just based on words – it doesn’t sound the focus of
that HCP in Puuanahulu – primarily I guess this is what we’re talking about,
right, not Puuwaawaa?
KS: What do you mean?
TL: I know the HCP covers bot...but are you planning on doing active game
management in Puuwaawaa as well?
KS: Yes, sir.
TL: OK. So when you say “active game management” – what exactly does that
mean to you?
KS: What does active game management mean to me? I can talk about it a little
more when we go over the next part of my...
DY: What is the ratio of land that is outside of the exclosures?
KS: The area is 103,000 acres.
DY: Right.
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KS: Currently, there’s about 4,000 acres of it already fenced. We’re gonna add
about 4,000 to it. So 103,000 acres –should be 8,000 fenced about. So
whatever that ratio is, is pretty small.
TN: What is the reason for fencing?
KS: I wish I knew the numbers off the top of my head – it’s something like there’s
16 endangered plants that are found in Puuwaawaa. I don’t know how many
of them are only found there – and Puuanahulu as well – but there are a few
of them that are only found there – so the reason for fencing is to...
TN: Then what is the ecosystem – the ecology of the area before fencing was
done and what was the numbers of these endangered species and was there
a – I’m looking for the ecology of the balance of the area before fencing went
in.
What I’m looking for is there are fencing areas but what was the area before
its fencing and what is the goal for fencing and has fencing brought back the
life of these endangered species? All these years. I mean, they’ve been
fencing areas for such a long time but has fenced area proven to bring the life
back of these endangered species to a sustainable number?
TL: Excuse me, Teresa, if you don’t mind, when he’s in the process of answering
a question could you let him finish it because I was interested in what he was
saying and I don’t mind people interrupting but let him finish his question
before you ask another one and please try and do them one at a time, if you
don’t mind, cause you had about four questions there and it’s hard to keep
track of them.
TN: OK. All right.
KS: OK. So Edith and Elliot would be the best people to ask about endangered
species specifically – specific questions – cause the things I do is about – for
game – not just game – for wildlife. I can tell you visually from the things that
I’ve seen from the areas that are fenced and that they are doing out planting
and doing restoration work for – there is a visual difference in forest
regeneration and natural plant restoration happening within those exclosures
that’s not happening outside of the exclosures. I cannot, I’m not up-to-date to
be able to quantify that for you – other people can – it’s in the HCP – a lot of it
is – but why are we fencing the areas? So the areas that we’ve selected for
fencing are the areas that are the most pristine native forest habitats where a
lot of these endangered species are so we’re trying to protect what’s already
there – what is still good forest structure – native forest habitat and structures
– that’s why we’re fencing those areas
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TL: Did you get your question answered, Teresa? Discussion
TN: You really don’t want me to answer that do you Tom?
KS: No, no. I want to hear it.
TL: Are we going...
TN: Well, OK, if an area is pristine – why are you fencing it. Were studies made
as to why the area is pristine and why it needs protection if the area is
pristine.
KS: Yeah. That’s a good question. Much of the areas outside of those areas have
been degraded over the years and so we anticipate the \[unclear\] loss and
degradation would continue, which is why we have selected those areas to
protect. I’m not saying that it’s the only way to do it – I think the – what you’re
trying to get to – has value – it’s just the management options that we’ve
chosen.
TL: On those management options – we’ve run into this “pristine” thing before and
there’s – in the NARS – especially in some of the NARS areas where you
have this pristine habitat that you want to fence in to protect – yet, in some of
those areas – animals have been in there for maybe centuries in a couple of
areas that we’re familiar with – and, so, when you’re trying to protect
something that is already pristine – that’s primarily to keep invasives of non-
native from coming into the area mostly – cause the animals don’t seem to
have an impact with that area if it’s still pristine after, you know, animal impact
over years and years and years.
Is the purpose of fencing to keep natives or non-native out?
KS: Yeah, the areas pretty good and we want to try and keep it that way.
Obviously, I agree with what you guys are saying, maybe it doesn’t need the
fencing. I don’t know. To be honest with you – I wasn’t really the one that
decided any of those fences on this project or on any project cause I’m the
young buck here – I don’t know if you can say agree to this or agree to what –
I mean, I agree with you guys that you got that maybe it doesn’t need to be
fenced or maybe it does. The areas that I’ve seen that are fenced – where
animals are not – there’s forest regeneration there. I can’t quantify it – I know
others can – if you want me to have them come back maybe and present it –
sure – but visually I’ve seen it, so... Take that for what it’s worth.
NP: You said first there were 4,000 acres and then 8,000 acres. Are they gonna
fence more?
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
KS: No, I mean, so we proposed – the fences that we have proposed are all that
we have proposed for this plan. I mean, it’s a 25 year plan and if we’re
successful and we’ve fenced the 8,000 and eight years, ten years – whatever
it is and then everything’s so awesome we can manage everything in there
perfectly – maybe after 25 years maybe we’ll try to fence more – but what
we’re trying to fence and manage is a lot already. And so I don’t anticipate
any extra fencing within that 25 year time frame.
TL: Are you gonna get into when you’re gonna start introducing animals to the
area?
KS: Let’s go on with my presentation. In September 2016, we captured a bunch
of sheep across the area – mostly in the mauka section – so mauka of
Mamalahoa Highway – and so 82 sheep that we captured and handled – we
fitted those numbers there – 15 females, 9 males with GPS collars – seven
females, nine males with VHF collars – so those are the numbers – 24 and 16
each – the animals that we put collars on we took blood samples – Willie-Joe
was very helpful with us – we took our blood samples to him and they spun
‘em down for us and we got a lot of data and information from that. We also
did a rump fat measurement using an ultrasound machine – rump fat
thickness is an indication of health – of animal health – so I have some of
those numbers after. We drew blood – we did that – we took a whole bunch of
measurements – so for our blood samples we tested for selenium, calcium,
copper, iron, phosphorous and zinc. And also magnesium. Across the board
– all of the animals were low – so if you can see – I didn’t bring a pointer or
anything – but that graph – everything on the – the two on the left side males
and females were animals that were captured in Puuanahulu and the two on
the right side males and females were captured in Puuwaawaa. Across the
board except magnesium – they were finding magnesium but across the
board all the animals were on the low end of normal or outside of normal for
those other minerals that we tested from. We haven’t done any DNA analysis
yet, we haven’t found anyone that can do it for us. We’re interested in finding
out what type of sheep are there historically – we also – I’m interested – I
don’t know if we can – if the test exists or we’re gonna be able to do it but
there’s a poled gene and I want to know where that – so poled is no horns
right – so I’m interested in finding out where that – what type of gene that is –
if it’s sex limited or if it’s chromosomal – to see what kind of management
actions we can do to lower that gene in that population. And we also did
pregnancy tests with the blood samples.
\[Discussion\]
TL: What are you studying for on the minerals?
KS: Just for animal health.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
TL: So if animal is low in magnesium. What would that mean?
KS: What does it mean? I don’t know. Willie-Joe what does it mean if they’re low
on magnesium.
WC: Most of your mineral analysis from what I understand - it’ll attribute to like low
pregnancies – low reproduction.
KS: I know selenium is a real important one for that.
WC: Yeah. A lot of this stuff goes with repro and not having a good lamb crop this
year or whatever.
TL: Is that something that salt licks and those kind of supplements?
WC: So potentially supplements could be put out.
KS: So the animals that we trapped in Puuwaawaa we used salt licks and mineral
blocks as our bait to bring them in. And those animals were still on the low
end but more normal than the ones that were in Puuanahulu and so next time
we trap they’re probably not gonna use any baits and we’ll see if their blood
levels have changed because of that.
DY: Are these animals healthy or they need vitamins or minerals?
KS: It wouldn’t hurt to add – to supplement their minerals, yeah, which is in the
plan that we wrote.
KS: The GPS collars that we put on are taking four points a day. So we had 24
collars that were GPS collars out there – that map right there – are all of the
individuals that we had collared and all of their points for the year. We used
those points to estimate home range sizes – we used three different methods
for estimating home range – and basically the home range was between 12.7
and 13.35 kilometers. The average distance that they moved within a day was
about 7 kilometers – that’s just an indication of how much stress they’re
getting from needing to move around from whatever it is – whether it’s from
hunting pressure or just to forage or whatever. The home range sizes and I
didn’t write it down here – but the home range sizes in Puuanahulu compared
to Puuwaawaa were a little bit bigger but their average daily movements
stayed the same which is just interesting. Survival – so we had three animals
that died and all three were from predation from wild dogs. With the collars
the individuals were estimate that there’s about a 90% annual survival rate for
adults, which is pretty good for adults. We are doing predator control right
now and have been for about the last year and a half. I don’t have any
numbers to quantify it but there has been a visual increase in lamb production
and recruitment into the population which we’re very excited about and the
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
next part that I’ll talk about – abundance estimation – will help us hopefully
quantify that more on lamb / ewe ratios and recruitment and fecundity and all
of that. We put out this last – in June we put out about 100 cameras randomly
across the mauka section between Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa and they’re
all programmed to take a picture every 15 minutes, I think, and so all the
pictures, all the cameras are programmed to take a picture at the same time,
which is essentially a snap shot of the area. I’m working in conjunction with
Brigham Young University from all of this research in Utah and so they’re
gonna do the statistical analysis for us to help us understand about how many
animals we have in the area. We can use that information not just for sheep
and goats but for anything that we get pictures of – so I’m pretty hopeful for
that – hopefully we’ll have some results on that by the end of the year. We’re
gonna start pulling the cameras out here in the next month or so and we’ll
move them down to the makai section so we can start getting estimates for
that area as well. That’s all I have. All of that ties into the things that we’re
trying to do in the HCP – I’ll take any questions you have – I know you have
questions about when we can start doing certain things, you know, like we
won’t do certain things until the fences are done. So we’ve discussed it and I
think there are some actions that we can do before the eight or ten years is
up – as long as we do it in an area where a fence has gone up. Does that
make sense? So like and in areas that are far enough away from fences –
we’re thinking – I think it’s 1.2 kilometers was kind of a buffer around the area
was what they came up with based on home range sizes and so basically that
same 1 point or 2.4 combination – I forget what it is exactly – but we can do
some actions that far away from proposed exclosures, um, but the biggest
action – the one I’m getting the most kick back from – from our other - my co-
workers – was augmentation – so we intend to bring animals from other areas
and introduce them into Puuwaawaa and Puuanahulu and so that probably
won’t happen until all the fences are in – any kind of addition of animals into
an area – that aren’t animals that are already there or, you know, right now
we can move animals in the area – from one area to another – I mean, that’s
fine – but if I want to bring ‘em in from Hawaiian Homes or something like that
– that probably – that specifically probably won’t happen till all the fences are
in – but other actions that we do – so other – we intend to plant cover plots –
to plant forage and better feed plots – some of those things can happen
before the ten years is up – but that big one that everybody has been so like
wow you want to bring animals in – that won’t happen until the ten years –
until all the fences are in I should say.
TL: What about water?
KS: We’re already doing things with water in there – we already do water guzzler
maintenance and adding more water – we could do that maybe before the ten
years is up.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
TL: What is the point of an HCP if you have to wait five years, eight years, ten
years?
KS: Why would I want to add a whole bunch of animals or improved animals in an
area that just gonna get fenced and then I got to go shoot ‘em all out of that
fence anyways. So why don’t I wait until the fence is up so I don’t – and then I
can put animals into the area.
TL: Well, how long does it take you to put up a fence?
KS: Depends on who’s building it.
TL: That’s exactly right. They put up fences all over the place in no time at all - it
takes ten years to even get this thing done or fifteen years...
KS: No, there’s several fences that you’re trying to build so - if an area has the
fences in already an it was two years – then in that area we start doing some
of the actions – but to do the full sweep of the things we want to do – we can’t
do that until all the fences are in, but, like Henahena fence – when that fence
is up – there’s some things that we can do within that area in a year when the
fence is done – whatever it is – probably with another year out – so we do
have that flexibility...
NP: Well 8,000 acres are going to be fenced?
KS: Four thousand is already fenced. Four thousand more will be fenced.
TN: In your four thousand fenced area, are you saying that there is no – any wild
pigs, goats, sheep in that area anymore?
KS: Yeah. So once the exclosures have been put in then eradication within those
fences will take place. Yes.
TN: In the area that is already fenced – the four thousand acres...
KS: Oh, the four thousand that already exists? Some of them there are no game
but the largest one – the forest bird sanctuary – we do still have pigs in there
and there is active eradication for those pigs in that area.
\[Discussion\]
TN: There are animals still in the fenced area…
KS: Some of the fenced areas, yes...animals are still there.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
TN: And in the proposed mixed four thousand acres – as the fence goes up - you
folks will eradicate the animals out of that area?
KS: Yes.
TN: And will you let the hunters do that?
KS: That’s written in the plan that we wrote. That’s the first option – is use public
hunting, yes.
TL: What about trapping and removal?
KS: Yeah, in some of the areas, we do intend to push the animals out before we
do any kind of eradication, especially that Henahena fence. I’ll go back to this
– maybe I should have gotten that pointer from you there. But if you look at
this map and you see all of those red, purple and blue – are they gonna see
the pointer if I point?
KS: On the left side where there’s all those red and purple and blue dots – that
corner of that forest bird sanctuary fence is – that’s basically an extension of
the forest bird sanctuary that’s gonna be the Henahena fence that’s being
built right now – you see a lot of the sheep like to hang out in that area – so it
is our intent to push as many out as we can before we do any eradications. I
will say that, that will be hard. That’s the largest – about an 800 acre
exposure and so we are planning on doing some pushing with a helicopter –
walking through is not gonna be an easy thing though.
DY: Are you gonna ask for volunteers?
KS: Yeah, yeah.
DY: OK. My understanding was some of these enclosures will have one-way
gates.
KS: Yeah, they already do that on the forest bird sanctuary and it does work, you
know, I know it works there. I don’t know if it works enough because we still
have animals in there but it functions – I should say it functions.
TL: When you talk about introductions – do you have at any point a number or a
carrying capacity or a – what do you expect for that area?
KS: So I should have just opened the plan for you.
TL: Is the plan available online?
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
KS: It will be in September once it goes to the ERSC… But I can email it to all of
you guys. The last time I was here we talked about creating a small working
group to help us draft this plan and stuff and Tony, Colin Onaka, Alan
Nakagawa, and Mark Bartell have been working with me on that plan. I
appreciate their help with that.
KS: Our intent is not to get anywhere near carrying capacity. Biological – if the
populations get to biological carrying capacity we’re in trouble – they’re gonna
start having way too much of a negative effect on the other resources that are
there and so in the plan that we did write – we will be monitoring the habitat
so one of the things that Tony talked about from Montana – we’re gonna be
setting up trans-section monitor habitat every – for the first five years – it’s
gonna be every year. After that it’ll be maybe every other year. We’ll have
trans-sectional. We’ll do vegetation measurements to try to assess how much
impact the animals are having on the area – basically our – what we want to
do is have a no net loss of native habitat based on how many and so I have
no idea how many animals that is – is it a thousand – is it 500 – is it ten
thousand? I don’t know – and so I don’t want to say, oh, we want 5,000
animals – we want to manage the animals based on how they’re affecting the
habitat that’s available to them.
TL: How much of that area you consider native?
KS: I don’t know…Edith ran something for me and I forget the numbers…
TL: The reason why I ask is that Puuanahulu – this is like maybe ten of fifteen
years ago – was designated as a game management area and the reason
why it was designated, we were told, is because it was severely degraded.
KS: Yes...
TL: So being severely degraded how does the native habitat get into the
equation?
KS: Over there? What do you mean?
TL: Well, you brought up native habitat – you said what the impact on native
habitat is. I was under the impression based upon the game management
and the reason for the game management area being there is that the habitat
was severely degraded and what I understand that to mean is that there’s
virtually nothing there but trash.
KS: I wouldn’t say there’s nothing there but trash – it’s mostly non-native
grasslands but there are areas where there’s still some OK forest structures,
especially higher up and so, our goal within environmental assessment is we
need to get a finding of no significant impact and that doesn’t only impact T
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
and E species – that impacts all of the native species. And not just the native
species but the system on a whole – it’s supposed to be, right? I mean,
theoretically. And so, we would like to and intend to manage the animals so
that there’s no loss of native forest outside of the exclosures. That will include
out-plantings and other types of mitigation but that’s how we – that’s how we
want to manage the animals.
TL: The last question that I have is – on the original plan – that he has or if you’ve
read it carefully enough it could be fifteen years before one animal is allowed
in there under the original plan. And you and I have talked about that before
and we had asked that, when you were going to review this that animals be
allowed, which I think is what you said, but, you may even clarify this for me –
that animals are gonna be allowed in there or not eradicated or taken out or
removed throughout this period outside of the exclosures …
KS: Yeah, we’re not doing any kind of extra removals of animals outside of the
exclosures, what I’m saying is that – I want to bring more animals in and
that’s probably not gonna happen until the Phase 1 is done and so what’s
already there and if we can within the laws and our restrictions and
regulations if we can help what’s there already be there it’d be a little better,
ah, maybe an increase a little bit, again, according to whatever our laws are.
We’re not gonna take animals out of the areas outside of the exclosures.
That’s not gonna happen at all. But if I want to do augmentations and trans-
locations from other areas I don’t think that’s gonna happen until Phase 1 is
complete.
TL: What would be the best way to improve populations as they are in
Puuanahulu? Would it be predator control?
KS: That’s what I think. Predator control. Control of poaching. I don’t know if I can
address the comment that Ryan made – he and I have spoken several times
and I would like to also publish names – we’ve had cameras in the area for
our predator control program for over a year and a half now and I think we
had seven convictions last year of people hunting in Puuwaawaa illegally and
so it’s kind of funny, I mean, we had cameras up trying to find dogs and we
were getting other predators – guys that were in there when they weren’t
supposed to be in there which is unexpected but, but, you know, a good side
thing. I think those are the two biggest things would be predators and
poaching.
TL: Have you folks had any discussion with Robert Farrell at all about the
poaching issue yet?
KS: Nope. I don’t know who that is.
TL: DOFAW...
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
KS: Oh, yeah, sorry, I do know who that is. I just don’t know him by name, - not
yet.
TN: Kanalu, in the fenced area – how do you control the overgrowth of weeds and
brushes that are not endemic or indigenous to the area?
KS: That’s written in the HCP. Obviously, in an ideal world we would have the
staffing and the funding to do weeding and other kinds of controls like that.
We got a lot of kickback from Fish & Wildlife Service saying that our
exclosures were not big enough and we tried to keep them as small as
possible because we didn’t want any teamed areas that were mostly fountain
grass or mostly non-native forest and other species like that and so, we, on
our end, I mean, you can say we’re awesome for it or not – whatever you
want to think – but we were actually trying to keep these fences as small – not
necessarily as small but as realistically manageable as possible.
TN: My question was – how do you folks keep it down?
KS: Right.
TN: Is there a method that you folks use is it chemicals? Is it natural?
KS: The crews would go in and hopefully these areas don’t have a lot of weeds
already in them and so the crews would go in and do manual control mostly,
probably can do some spot spraying with a helicopter if we needed to – but a
lot of cutting and herbicide applications – that’s how we intend to manage the
exclosures. But like I said mostly – hopefully these areas are already mostly
native species and so the weed control in there shouldn’t be super labor
intensive – shouldn’t be.
TN: I’m talking about the already 4,000 acres that is already fenced...
KS: OK. The stuff that’s already fenced?
TN: I’m asking what methods do you use to keep the weed control down and if it’s
chemicals and herbicides?
KS: Yes, all the methods I just listed we already do.
TN: And so when you say herbicide what kind of herbicides are you folks using?
KS: It depends on the plant species but we use Glyphosate RoundUp and Garlon
mostly. We also do some pre-emergence but... Mostly those two.
TL: You said there are seven instances of poaching that you caught on camera?
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
KS: Yeah, I think it was six convicted – one we didn’t get the guy – but seven
instances where we got guys hunting in the closed area.
WC: I believe that when word gets out that’s the biggest deterrent and pretty much,
I mean, just like, I was talking about earlier with Kipuka Ainahou, I mean, the
word is out that there’s not law so everybody’s doing what they want to do and
it would probably be beneficial for Puuwaawaa that word does get out that
convictions are being made and eyes are there cause I have never heard of it
and but I hear of the other side of that so...
KS: OK. Yeah. All right.
WC: Probably more than seven...
KS: Yeah, it’s probably more than seven. That’s only the stuff that we saw on our
cameras and we only have like, I mean, now we have 100 cameras but before
we put those out we only had maybe twenty cameras out there and so
obviously there’s other stuff going on that we’re not catching, um, so, yeah, I’ll
work on that.
NP: You were saying that animals travel and you have the sensors and you
thought some of it was from stress from hunters – all the reasons that they’re
fleeing or whatever and Tony was talking about good game management
provides refuge areas and sanctuaries for the animals to rest and breed and
be protected from all of the above. Is there any kind of plan where somehow
you could create that in these areas?
KS: I think we would manage for that using seasons and we already have seasons
there. The season in Puuanahulu is pretty long, but it’s only weekends. We
can’t make more area over there – we have what we have, right, so it’s not – I
think it would just be using seasons and using and maybe limiting hunter
pressure but that would be how we would try to address that. I mean in
Puuwaawaa right now there’s a four week – makai – there’s a four week
archery season where this is the last weekend coming up right now, actually,
and then there’s a three-week mussel over season – so there’s seven weeks
out of the year where those animals are hunted legally, yeah, and weekends
and state holiday only for seven weeks. And, so, the rest of the year they
shouldn’t be hunted legally, so, reduced, yeah, and so in that area we’re
probably OK even in Puuanahulu we’re probably OK. I just – the daily
movement was more of a – the stresses from their environment not
necessarily hunting, sure, but more how much they have to work to get the
forage that they need to.
NP: On the cattle hunt we learned that the cattle were breaking through the fence
or, they created the fences to protect the forest and, you know, why were they
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
going in the forest, well, that came out that it was because they took refuge
there from predators: wild dogs and I don’t know – maybe it could be a thick
forested area could plant for them – I don’t know.
KS: What you’re talking about is really important in the areas where you see them
hanging out with all those dots are all areas where there’s good forest cover –
better forest cover. So creating more cover, yeah, sorry, I should have said
that. You can’t create more space but you can create more cover. So that is
written into the plan.
TL: What are you gonna be using for cover?
KS: It’s in the plan. We wrote in there – Hawaii invasive weeds risk assessment
or something like that. I know the guy that does it, it’s a real in depth literature
review of plants that are not native and what their risk of becoming weeds are
so mostly, we want to use native plants cause then we don’t really have any
restrictions or worries about native plants but the native trees don’t grow as
quickly, right, so anything we want to use that’s not native would fall on that
weed risk assessment as basically as a one or less than a one – meaning that
they’re not – wouldn’t be prone to being to invade an area – so that’s house
we wrote it. I didn’t specifically say I want to use this plant, this plant and this
plant – cause we want to be able to chose, you know, we don’t just restrict
ourselves, so, it’s pretty vague on ;what we decide to use or not.
TL: We had suggested – this is back in 2007 – talking about some of, you know,
rubbish trees just to get cover and I got a universal, oh, no, no can and maybe
you could use kukui nut or something like that which is kind of fast-growing, I
guess, by comparison but...
KS: It’s -from talking to that – his name is Chuck and I don’t remember his last
name but – if the plant is already in the area it’s pretty easy for us to justify
using it but if it’s not like a rubber tree – there’s no rubber trees out there – it
would be harder for us to try to bring something like that in, yeah.
TL: Well, planting in that area, though, you’re not restricted to having to deal
primarily with native – you could...
KS: The way it’s written in the plan – no – I don’t want to be restricted only to them.
Oh, did you print it and bring it? \[Unclear\], cause I gave it to you. Oh,
somebody came prepared, I thought.
WC: Hang on, Teresa.
TS: Oh, I’m sorry, this is Tony Sylvester. I wanted to know what the penalties for
poaching right now - the guys that get caught?
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
KS: I probably should have brought DOCARE but I think the first time offense is
$100.00 dollars about – the second time offense is about $500 – is what the
suggested penalty is – the third time is a thousand – something like that.
KS: OK. Lose a license for a year. OK.
TS: They should lose their drivers’ license – that would wake them up real quick.
JO: On the ranches – the penalty was usually more severe in the past – I worked
on Hualalai Ranch and Gomes Ranch back in the Seventies and Eighties and
Joe Gomes he used to brag that he’d plant a plumeria tree every place he
planted a poacher. You’d be surprised how many plumeria trees were out in
cattle country in the oddest places. Not many poachers left.
TS: OK. And then, I guess for like out-planting, though, when Ike had asked
about, you know, the area size and so forth – it’s roughly what 100,000
acres?
Eight thousand – I think the key though is we’re back to that numbers again
because the remaining habitat for game – what is the quality of that habitat?
And like I’ve been up to the Henahena, in fact, Teresa was with me and Ike a
few years back and Ryan, I believe, and we all went up to that Henahena
parcel and just a lot more moisture...
TN: That’s right...
TS: The grass is greener and so forth. There was a lot of Kikuyu grass, I think, at
that time in there and ohia but – so to plant, I mean to do bulk planting and
things like that it would be kinda difficult in some of those areas unless is
irrigation possible and that’s always very expensive and...
KS: Yes, it’s hard. Thank you for pointing that out.
TS: And cover is very, very important...
KS: Yeah...
TL: So in order to get to his question, though, is irrigation gonna be possible?
KS: I mean, is irrigation possible, I mean, anything is possible but right now we’re
not set up for it right now and we do have a good – we actually have a good
water project on right now where they’re improving our \[unclear\] infrastructure
all the way down from Hale Puila inside the bird sanctuary to the reservoir.
We could definitely access that for things that we need to outside of the
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
exclosures but that’s just one small area so like the Puuanahulu side that
infrastructure doesn’t exist.
TL: You said the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service wanted to have bigger fences.
KS: Uh-huh.
TL: Right. Is this Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) – my understanding was that
with this conservation plan you could now go to the Feds for money. Is that
correct?
KS: What it does is it allows us to comply to our state laws. If we want to go the
FEDs for money, we need to do a biological opinion – it is a – so we’ve had
the conversations with them already and they do know that once this HCP is
done we will then consult with them for a biological opinion so that we can
use federal funding to do the game management actions that we want to do
and they are aware and they, I mean, the personnel changes all the time but
right now the people that we’re talking with, it sounds like they’re on board
with using the HCP as their – basically – as their backbone for the biological
opinion. So all the conclusions and actions that we come out of our HCP with
hopefully, would come out of their biological opinion. So the HCP allows us to
comply with our state laws and then now we can use state funds. Cause right
now there’s kind of a gray area whether we can use state funds to do things
for game management or not. But once we do have the HCP then, yes, we
can use state funds to do game management outside of the exclosures. We
will then need the biological opinion from the Fish & Wildlife Service. I was
just talking to Edith about that this morning and so, um, I told her once we get
the HCP we should approach them, I mean, within the year, maybe two years
– because I think we all see how long it’s taken just the HCP to get written –
so to get a biological opinion is probably gonna take some time too. And as
long as we get that before Phase 1 is done and hopefully sooner than that.
TL: Why did this take this long?
KS: Cause I don’t know what I’m doing... No, ah, why did it take so long – it’s the
first time that this has ever been done and I don’t know if it will ever be done
again – the idea was that it was gonna be a template for future districts in
other areas to be able to manage game like this, but, there’s just so many –
it’s the why did it take so long is the first time it’s ever been done – nobody’s
ever done it like this, I mean, we’re the state asking the state for a permit to
take endangered species, nobody’s ever done that. So that’s why it’s taken so
long.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
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TL: But you’ve had other HCPs done in six months.
KS: But it’s never the state asking the state. We are the state asking ourselves for
a permit to take endangered species. Other HCPs are a private entity that
wants to do some project and so they’re gonna put all this money behind
themselves and they’re gonna do their mitigation and any – an HCP that’s
only gonna take six months is probably – I cannot say that I know – but it’s
probably gonna be some HCP that’s very small. Of this there’s a real large
scale – this – I don’t know but this might be the largest scale HCP that we
have in the state as well. So that’s why it’s taken so long. You can...
TN: In the enclosed areas do you know how much replanting has been done so
far and what is that status?
KS: I don’t know. I would have to ask Elliot or Edith. But, like I said, just visually,
it’s been pretty successful, so, I’m sorry...
TN: When you say “successful” – when you’re saying successful what are you
looking at?
KS: Forest regeneration so - mamane, koa and other native forest species coming
back and growing successfully.
TN: So are you saying the planting of the koas several years back are not at what
height?
KS: Oh, the ones on the hill – on the puu – are – you know how tall those ones
are? They’re thirty or forty feet on the puu and...
TN: And those were planted by the conservationists? Or were those the existing
ones?
KS: No, they were planted – they were not existing – they were, for sure, planted
and all the koa that’s on top of the puu had been planted.
TN: Has the bird population increased in the fenced area?
KS: The native bird population?
TN: The bird population, yes...
KS: I don’t know... Sorry, I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s gone down but I don’t
think it’s necessarily increased either.
TN: OK. Thank you.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
KS: I got to write these questions down so I can go get answers and not say I
don’t know.
TL: Well, we’ll be happy to send you some. Also, I want to thank you. This is kind
of interesting to me. The HCP – I guess what concerns me is that it’s taken so
long and I was under the impression that this was all done by the Feds for the
Feds and that this whole process had to do with applying for federal funds in
order to do game management.
KS: Yes. If we would have – I don’t understand the differences completely but
there’s two types of HCPs – there’s the federal HCP and a state HCP. So we
consulted and requested a state HCP because if we requested a federal HCP
we would not be allowed to use any federal funds. I don’t understand why – I
don’t know any – I just know that’s what it is. And so, sorry it’s taken so long, I
mean...
TL: So will there not be any federal being able to be utilized on state land for
game management or enhancement of game mammals in particular?
KS: For certain activities – no. We do use federal funds PR funds for hunter
access, fire break maintenance and things like that. We already– we do that
now. But for some of the other things – no.
TL: The reason why I bring it up is last year or the year before – we submitted a
bill regarding the – and we were told to look, can you put this aside because
we’re dealing with the commission at that time – on changing the structure of
the Wildlife Revolving Fund and the use of that money. Right now that money
is mandated to be used for, I mean, the first use of that money is to do match
funds with – for federal money. If the Wildlife Revolving Fund is gonna be the
only source of income to take care of this habitat conservation plan then we
probably should be looking at restricting that money to be used for other
projects.
KS: I’ve already had those conversations with our managers and they’re aware
that if I ever wanted to use Wildlife Revolving Funds that I’ve asked them it’s
not money as it’s been used as match for anything – that it stands by itself.
TL: Well, we do have – we did submit a bill to make it more hunter-responsive
and now that there is, you know, a state game management plan or, ah,
commission, uh, they might be an appropriate vehicle to dispense with them
like in the HCP or some other projects because – and the reason why I asked
for water – it’s just hard to do habitat improvement to improve the populations
that are there without money and if this is our only source of money maybe
we ought to be looking at several things – changing the structure of the
Wildlife Revolving Fund and maybe we should be looking at fees that are
higher – I don’t know why we have $10.00 license fee, I just don’t and to go
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
through this tag and all these other things that make up for it – anyway, we’re
going beyond our time here and I appreciate that. Yes, sir?
TS: Could we use that PR money for irrigation then – we have our Pittman-
Robinson Funds – could that be used for irrigation in the areas for hunting?
The water’s not going towards the game – it could be used to help create
cover or find more water cause, I mean, we really need there...
KS: I would have to ask our official wildlife counterparts but that probably, I mean,
we do a little bit of that already – we have our small exclosures that we’re
doing cover plots and we use federal funding for those with the kukui in
Puuanahulu, I mean, they’re small but, yeah, we already used some federal
funding for that so a precedent has already been set...
TL: What about state funding for irrigation?
KS: Yeah, I don’t see a problem...
TN: Would it be possible that we have an opportunity to reseed the Puuanahulu
area and from the last time I’ve been there to date wondering if we could look
at it with our own eyes and see what progress has been done in that area.
Something to ponder about if everybody on board is curious enough to take a
trip up there.
DY: No, this has nothing to do with wildlife. You know, I have this on-going interest
because I grew up in that area in Kona and I was always told that the wiliwili
tree groves in Puuwaawaa area are the only native wiliwili grove in existence.
I’ve been noticing that those trees are kinda disappearing, yeah, along the
road, so I’m wondering what’s happening with those things.
KS: Yeah. There was an insect...Yeah, some wasp or something that’s been
attacking it across the state not just there.
TN: And there was some that was removed to be planted down Four Seasons
next to the rich houses.
KS: That’s different kind wildlife that...
DY: So Teresa, maybe we should reclaim those. I’m only kidding.
TN: If you have thousands of dollars they pay for it.
DY: No, you should claim them as some kind of native Hawaiian relic or
something, I don’t know.
KS: OK. I’m gonna run away.
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Minutes – August 22, 2017
WC: Thank you Kanalu...
TL: OK. I just have a couple of things I wanted to add to this. But, you know,
we’re here talking about game management and basically what does it mean
and we’ve seen game management throughout the state and some other
places. One definition is no game. Another definition that we’ve seen has
been a hunting opportunity in support of eradication – we’ve seen this out in
Puuwaawaa, ah, hunting opportunities available as a result of a program
designed to support sustainability. That’s what we’re hoping is going to be a
part of this HCP here and some of the other areas that we have and I
\[unclear\] to reflect back on briefly here and actually I can’t hardly read that but
the role of the County Game Management Advisory Commission as an
advocate for game management is something that Tony started when he took
position as Chair and it has been a focus of this commission basically from
the day that they were created and we have – you mentioned that HCR Ike –
this HCR and unfortunately . \[Mic off\]
WC: OK. So we’ll just read the HCR 22 supporting Game Mammal, Game Bird,
and Fish Resources in order to Promote Sustainability and Food Security and
to Preserve Longstanding Local and Cultural Practices whereas Hawaii
imports between 85 and 90% of its food and in the event of a natural disaster
or global event that prevents food shipment Hawaii could face a devastating
food shortage and whereas the practices of fishing and hunting have a long
history in the culture of Hawaii and whereas today the availability of fresh,
locally caught fish is a basic expectation in our communities and whereas
policies on conservation and protection of terrestrial and marine resources
should promote the concept of game mammals, game birds, and marine
resources are an integral part of our island culture now therefore be it
th
resolved by the House of Representatives of the 29 Legislature of the State
of Hawaii regular session of 2016 the Senate Concurring that this body urges
the conservation, development and utilization of game mammal, game bird
and fishing resources and be it further resolved that this body recognizes that
pioneered introductions such as the pig and later sustainability introductions
such as goats, sheep and deer are not recognized as game mammal and
game bird resources and should be included among the game management
resources supported to achieve sustainability and food security and be it
further resolved that this body urges state departments to develop and update
their rules and policies to integrate the local hunting and fishing industries into
any food security or sustainability strategies they employ and to preserve,
protect and promote the industries and local cultural practices to nurture them
into viable and sustainable economic nutritional and cultural resources and be
it further resolved that certified copies of this concurrent resolution be
transmitted to the Chairperson of the Board of Agriculture and the
Chairperson of the Board of Land and Natural Resources.
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
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KS: This is Kanalu again. We have corporate meetings for all the wildlife
managers – not just the game but game, non-game a couple times a year and
so when it was going through the session we did read it in that meeting and
discussed it as a group, yeah.
TL: OK. Now the other thing and again we have to thank this gentleman here up
front hiding from us – is we’ve been pushing game management for a long
time and one of the successes that I see that came out of Tony’s efforts is the
fact that we did get a Game Commission statewide actually funded and into
position right now, of which we’ve heard from our two island representatives
– via these two gentlemen or commissioners earlier and so this is one of the
things and game management and I think Kanalu what you’re doing right now
is really important, but, you know, one of the things we talked about game
management, ah, would you care to...
WC: I can... Advocate for game and game management. The goal of a game
manager or wildlife program manager is to advocate for game and game
management. Our position as the goal of game manager and wildlife program
manager is to not push an environmental agenda but to promote, protect and
preserve public hunting. Our position in that a game manager and wildlife
program manager should / need to look at each piece of property with a focus
on integrating game management and resources toward meeting specific
goals representing a long term sustainability model.
TL: One of the things that was a disappointment to us or to me, anyway, I don’t
know if those of you have had a chance to look at that other game
management plan that was sent back to us to look at – but a lot of that game
management plan that came back to us from the state that we’re reviewing
right now was a \[unclear\] for environmentalism and, you know, the purpose of
a game manager in my position is that should be an advocate for our game –
should be an advocate for this HCR, you know, in game sustainability and I’m
just curious if you folks model after that. When you look at a game manager
and I’m talking about Shyla right now, who’s here – she should be and we’re
hoping to have had her here – she’s willing to come back and talk to us about
this but I think to some degree she’s still in tutelage but, you know, a game
manager should be looking at game management. We don’t see a reason for
a game manager, I mean, it’s there – the environmental issues are there as a
product of the HCP but the focus should be on how much game can we have
in an area, if any, and we should be managing that area for game and I’d just
quickly like your thoughts on that. Not that I knew you were going to be here.
WC: And I have a comment on that when he’s done.
SB: This is Steve Bergfield, I believe that Shyla is doing a good job from just
starting and she’s taken on a lot of those roles but I’d also believe that, you
know, there’s a learning curve like you referenced and it doesn’t – especially
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
not being from Hawaii it will take a little bit longer for her to get up to speed
but I’ve been happy with what she’s working on so far especially since the
position was vacant for so long.
TL: Well, and I don’t mean to cut him off but she’s done a lot of things and started
a process of things that haven’t been done here for many, many, many years.
And, you know, she’s an advocate for the newsletter, which I think is really
good, you know, we’re talking earlier about publishing the convictions and so
forth, you know, that’s a great venue or a way to publicize that, as well as,
getting that information out to us so that, you know, like Ryan Kohatsu has his
own Facebook page, we have a Facebook page – if we can contribute to that
to help stop poaching or see if we can – but my man – I’m gonna get to him
here in a second is – when we got that draft back on the Big Island Game
Management Plan – there was an awful lot of DLNR – I mean, I call it a
\[unclear\] piece, but, you know, environmental promotion rather than looking
at, you know, game management, you know, clinically \[unclear\] the other
people are gonna come out and bring reference to the fact that, look, we got
these plans, we’ve got these other things, we’ve got, we do these, you know,
fencing. We have all these other aspects that are there without focusing just
on game and that’s one of the things that, if anything, I can add is that that’s
one thing that I would like to see more of an emphasis on, on the motion,
protection and the education part that we were talking about earlier as well
through the commission and also through the DLNR and especially with this
HCR where the state is saying, you know, hey, we want this game, we want
to promote this game and we want to use it as their sustainability module
and....
KS: Is it OK if I make a comment?
WC: Go ahead, Kanalu...
KS: So I haven’t seen the return draft to you, yet, so I apologize and I’ll get on
that. But the original plan that we got was a slam piece on DLNR and not that
some of the things in there weren’t valid but it was knowing the author – the
main author of that – was so you call it a puff piece and maybe it is now but it
was definitely a slam piece on us and it was not – it was not a management
plan – it was a changing DLNR plan – which is maybe valid but not something
we can control on our level.
TL: I agree with you on the original plan as far as, you know, some of the
comments that were made out of that original plan – and I will get you that
other draft...
KS: Nah, I can get it from Jim, I mean, Jim sent it to you \[unclear\] – the other
draft?
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Minutes – August 22, 2017
TL: He gave me one the night that he was here and he gave me another one to
follow-up on.
KS: I think you sent it to me and I can get it from him too.
TL: OK. I’ll be happy to do that. When I say puff piece – I don’t agree that
anything negative of DLNR should have been there in the manner that you
call it a slam piece. I don’t agree with the fact that it was there and I agree
with you there – by the same token – I don’t agree with, you know,
environmentalist stuff coming into a game management plan when you’re
pushing environmental issues rather than game management issues. That’s
my thing – it should be a clinical...
KS: I agree with you. I just – maybe you could understand that when we as
managers are reading this \[unclear\] document that basically the whole thing is
degrading our agency and I’m not like I’m saying – I’m not saying our agency
is perfect or can’t change – cause it can – but when that’s all we’re reading
you’re gonna get a puff piece in return - I agree with what you’re saying
though – it shouldn’t be a puff piece either and so I agree – I’m just trying to
give a reason – probably why it happened.
DY: I think what we need to do is to understand what we’re saying and ask,
maybe, how do we get the chairperson to sort of push these as policy issues
in a more balanced, equal way? Because seems like that’s where the
direction comes from, right?
?: I think you started the process by establishing a State Game Management
Advisory Council as advisory to the board so that is a big step forward to her
– to our chairperson listening to the voice of the hunting community.
DY: Maybe it would be good if she revisited us again, you know, because she
came when she first started but she hasn’t been back and I know her deputy
came but frankly I thought it was flack catching, right.
?: Yeah, well we have a new first deputy now and I would suggest that maybe
after six months or so after the department understands better the role of the
State Game Management Advisory Council that you write a letter to the
chairperson asking her to come and maybe give her some questions that
want addressed and then she’ll have a better understanding how all that’s
gonna work.
DY: See our problem is we have a re-election coming up so they’ll come and
listen but there’s not much time to pursue this kind of thing, right? And we’ve
had like four years already and we’ve asked the questions and, you know,
frankly the answers we’re getting back is not – we’re not getting direct
answers back – we’re getting indirect answers back and those indirect
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
answers are still weighted, it seems, on one side. And so, you know, and
frankly I’ve been doing this for twenty years, twenty-plus years so, I mean,
there’s got to be a change and I don’t like to get into arguments but it appears
to me like we’re talking to the wall. We keep asking the same questions, we
reasonably ask for changes and you know... Public statements coming out of
DLNR now are predominantly those of the protectionist nature and, you know,
I appreciate those but we also would like to see some balance comments
coming out about game management. So that’s my editorial comment. But I
appreciate what you guys are doing but I understand that it has to start at the
top and when the top comes to one meeting in the very beginning but doesn’t
revisit us, it tells us something, yeah? So maybe she should come visit us
again and don’t send the flack catchers here, cause we know about the flack
catchers, you know, she should come and talk to us and hopefully the
message gets to her. Thank you.
TL: Well, game management...
DY: And thanks for your efforts...
TL: Our game animals should be appreciated by the department and they should
have value, poaching or any of these other things should reflect that value,
you know, what happens with poaching. At one time we had a poaching –
anti-poaching bill, for example, that the fines of that thing went up to $25,000.
And confiscation of vehicles and all of this. DOCARE actually argued against
it because they didn’t want to have a used car lot – to have to deal with it. I
appreciate that part of it – but in many states poaching is a really serious
offense and sometimes you can go to jail for it. I think you can here, too, but I
don’t know that it’s ever – I was in court and $25.00 fine got reduced to
$10.00 – Chillingworth – and so, I mean, you know, the economy’s of people
that are there, too, you know, it’s just people are hunting and they get caught
– I understand that as well, but, I think the promotion, protection and
preservation of our game animals needs to be advocated by the department –
with that I kind of agree with them – Kanalu, I appreciate what you did – I
really – no, it was a good presentation and we’re not giving you a hard time
so don’t...
WC: We’ve, in the past three months meetings – if we look back at what has been
said, what has been argued – I, personally, have a pretty good understanding
on how – on a lot of the challenges that these guys here on the ground have
– just by Mr. Banko’s statements, I mean, we all here have been here long
enough to understand that they have challenges – I think instead of – now I
don’t disagree with anything that anybody has said here tonight – I agree
100% but I think we’ve already beat that horse enough that we’re not getting
anywhere. So I think maybe we should ask these guys what is – truly what it
is that we can do to try and help in accelerating some of these processes, I
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
mean, if you really sat here and listened to what Kanalu had to say tonight –
to me that’s like great – that’s the best start that we’ve had in forty years. So
by only continuing to – I don’t know what the right word is – it’s not ridicule but
to just nitpick at the little things – maybe we should try and figure out how we
can help get this thing done and get it going. I mean, I clearly understand –
there’s 100,000 acres – there’s 4,000 already fenced – 4,000 more – 8,000 –
that’s not even 1% of the whole place. It’s gonna happen whether we like it or
not – let’s get this thing going. I guess, what I’m trying to say is we’re not
getting anywhere – we haven’t gotten anywhere in my whole time here – I’m
almost done with this kind of deals and I see these guys trying and I think I
understand a lot of their obstacles and I think we need to try and help
facilitate this so that it can get done – so we can see what’s gonna happen in
Puuwaawaa. To me that’s the best that we’ve had in our 40 years – I totally
agree – there’s nothing game management in anything right now – but
hopefully that’s what this HCP is gonna do – is gonna give Kanalu and his
guys and, I mean, Steve pretty much and his whole guys – all the people here
on this island to have ways to help sustain some game in Puuwaawaa and,
you know, I understand they’re not going to be able to put out anything real,
you know, introduce – but the bottom line of that if you listened to what he’s
saying is that we’re not gonna be continuing to decimate the population there
– in a roundabout way we can get some water units out there, we can get
some collar – I see all those as pluses and if we continue to only look at the
negatives of this – like building 4,000 acres more of fence – we never going
get anywhere with this and I think honestly it’s really weighing hard on me – I
do agree with everything, I mean, I wish we could have a lot, lot more – but I
am to the point right now where I think we need to be happy with what is
starting to happen and continue that and not try and just cut ‘em down all the
time and, yeah, and that’s my two cents.
DY: I have something – I have not a rebuttal but I have some comments to make.
You know the Puuwaawaa agreement that was started in the 1980s talked
about a balanced, mixed-use area and what I have seen going on in
Puuwaawaa and you guys, you know, this most recent activity in game
management is the biggest thing I’ve seen in a long time, OK, so, I hope I’m
not sounding like I’m critical of that – but what I am interested in pointing out
is that what happened to the idea or the concept of Puuwaawaa being a
mixed-use area – that you had a balanced use of many different kinds in the
area. It seems like that concept that was worked on by many, many different
people is being developed into a monolithic kind of forest reserve or
something, which leaves out a lot of the original ideas for that area. And I
would just like to see balance and we don’t get – I don’t see the balance –
and that’s just one area – I think the whole island should be approached in
that manner where we have a balanced use of our resources and we don’t
seem to have that. I can understand why or at least I can understand the
rationale that’s behind all this but, you know, we have people here and we
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Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting
Minutes – August 22, 2017
gotta take care of the people, so, that’s my comments. I don’t disagree with
what’s going on but, gee, I’d like to see a little bit more balance and, you
know, if you’re gonna do miconia control – do miconia control. And if you’re
gonna do coqui frog control – do the coqui frog control – and If you’re gonna
get big time into endangered species then, then you gotta do it but do it with
some balance – that’s all I’m asking – I mean, you know \[tape cut off\].
6. ORDER OF BUSINESS:
A. OLD BUSINESS
Commission Members Get Together – September 9, 2017 at 11:00 a.m. at
the Kona Bowling Alley, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii.
NEXT MEETING: September 19, 2017
Willie-Jo Camara moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Dwayne “Ike”
Yoshina and carried unanimously by a voice vote.
ADJOURNMENT:
8:57 PM
Respectfully submitted:
Donna Urban-Higuchi
ATTEST:
Thomas H. Lodge, Chairman
35