HomeMy WebLinkAbout03-19-18 Regular Session Minutes HAWAII COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS
MINUTES—REGULAR SESSION
Monday, March 19, 2018
10:03 a.m. to 1:40 p.m.
Hawai`i County Building
25 Aupuni Street
County Council Chambers
Hilo, Hawai`i 96720
Members and Staff Present:
Ku Kahakalau, Chair
Kenneth Goodenow, Vice-Chair
Rick Robinson, Member
Nan Sumner-Mack, Member
J Yoshimoto, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Emily Hirayama, Secretary
1. CALL TO ORDER(10:03 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Aloha Kakahiaka...I would like to hereby called the meeting of the
Board of Ethics for March 19, 2018 to order.
2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (10:05 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: We would like to start with statements from the public on agenda
items. Please give us your name and which agenda item you are
speaking. Testifier Stefan Bochta.
Mr. Bochta: Hello...good morning Stefan Bochta...I am speaking to 4a I think
it is...and this is about Council member...and I felt compelled to
testify today because I have a unique view point that I can give
you...I have been living and breathing the problem with short-term
rentals for the last eight months to the point of
obsession...and...not working with Karen Eoff...met her only
once in fact and so I have I think I have some...some view point to
give you on that aspect and I thought that might be important
because...one of the...items I think the theme is....that Ms. Eoff as
an elected official...doesn't she drive a unique benefit right....or
gain any advantage...compared to the rest of the class of people
affected by the legislation that she's drafting...and...in my opinion
this is not the case and I will say why this is not the case...and
just...I've gotten into this short-term rental problem because in my
neighborhood there's a lot of short-term rentals and we've tried to
find sort of a solution...look at it from various angles and so I've
looked at a lot of the cities on the mainland and...and...tried to
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understand are there any nationwide best practices for short-term
rentals....and...so I looked at fourteen different
cities...and...collected information about the different components
of a rental ordinance so if you were to sit down you say we need to
regulate this cause there's...this is going everywhere...this is most
of the tourist cities on the mainland have that problem now and
that so Ms. Eoff when she went out...originally...she actually
wasn't the first one to draft it was the Mayor's office and I know
this because I first talked to the Mayor's office and they put me in
touch with her so...Roy Takemoto from the Mayor's office drafted
this bill originally it when he presented it at the Rotary club back
in November...and...he then worked with Dru Kanuha and Ms.
Eoff to introduce it...so but anyways...starting back from this
particular bill looking at the fourteen different cities...the...what
are the components that would be in any ordinance...that anybody
could introduce...and...basically what you find if you look at this
is that half of the fourteen communities most of them...that are in
tourist areas...what they tend to do is they limit the number of
short-term rentals by geography...it kind of makes sense if you
think about because...you want to avoid short-term rentals
spreading into residential areas were they compete with
homeowners...and where capitalist flowing in you know...people
are buying up lots and then you have commercial activity
competing with private mortgages you know essentially...cash
buyers competing with you know with private mortgages...so half
of the cities limit either by census track or by zoning...and what
Ms. Eoff is alleged here is that she has a unique benefit...I think
what Mr. Guzman alleges is that she has a unique benefit from the
fact that her unit which is in the Kona Islander Inn...you know
happens to be in a commercial zone which is you know not
regulated and I mean where it's in the bill and the bill language is
as commercial zones you know...I not going to be regulated and
the other areas the residential would be regulated but this is exactly
what half of the cities on the mainland do...and it makes total
sense you know I mean...you wouldn't regulate commercial zones
because you want to push the commercial activity into those zones
you know that's what they're zoned for and so I think there
really...Mr. Guzman is waving a red flag but I don't see anything
there...just stepping back and looking at this from other
communities...give you an example...Charleston limits the
number of rental units to one per lot in a residential neighborhood
but nine in non-residential...so they also restricted in commercial
areas but much...they allow much more...Austin limits non-owner
occupied short-term rentals to three percent of the housing units in
residential districts only there...so again...Ms. Eoff s unit is not in
a residential unit so she'd be okay in Austin...she'd be okay in
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Charleston...half of the cities okay that's...the point I was trying
to make I think Ms. Eoff miss-spoke...she made a mistake but her
property's located in a commercial zone...so almost under any
STR...anybody would draft...it would be permitted...then I also
went to the...Planning Department and to real tax and actually
looked...you may have also done this and so I have this supporting
documents and her unit...she purchased it in 2005...it's the unit
205 in Kona Islander Inn...she's been paying the highest tax rate
in the County since 2005 on it...the so called apartment tax rate
that's actually higher than the commercial tax rate that's a slightly
lower and...it's zoned...75...1 have it here from the Planning
Department and...so by all means...I don't see...any problem with
that you know by...all means...okay so this is...I leave this as
supporting evidence...this is the presentation that Mr. Takemoto
gave to the Rotary club...it has essentially the most important
dimensions of the bill in it...so you can see that this was before the
bill was drafted...I also...yeah I think Mr. Guzman is trying to get
everybody to focus on the accusation rather than the facts and one
of the problem is that in this whole short-term rental areas that so
much capital in it that you know when people have money in the
ground or planning to build something then they become very
defensive around it an so this you see this everywhere you
know...and...one more thing I wanted to say is...I know Karen
Eoff not personally but in a different context and I think we may
want to consider this also...OMA is this big parcel over in Kona
where two thousand three hundred home were gonna go into what
was called OMA beachside villas and I testified at hearing there
against this development I thought it was crazy to take that open
ocean front land away from the community because you know
when you drive from the airport to town that's what you see and
you know not to look like Honolulu and I learned later that Ms.
Eoff was instrumental to get that piece of property into the land
fund and I think people forever be thankful for that so please no
matter what discussion Ms. Eoff she did a huge favor for the
community that's...will take a long time to repay so that's all I
have to say..
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you so much for your testimony...we appreciate it. Maile
David is our next person...same thing if you could please
introduce yourself and then let us know to which item you wish to
testify. Aloha Kakahiaka.
Ms. David: Aloha Kakahiaka Chair Kahakalau and members of the board. I'm
here testifying on....my name is Maile David...I'm a colleague
and Council member and also a friend and I come before this board
to testify in those capacities...and I'm testifying on item 5a...It's
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very unusual sitting here on this side and addressing but it's my
privilege to do so...so I'm going to read my testimony because I
think there's some points that I really want to make that I would
not be able to remember it so...I appear before this honorable body
in support of Council member Eoff as a colleague, community
advocate and friend, for more than 30 years. My testimony will
focus on the duties and responsibilities in our role as the legislative
body of the County, and the exceptional personal and professional
character of Ms. Eoff, and my firm belief that Ms. Eoff should
rightfully be allowed to perform her duties and obligations as a
legislator and found not to be in any conflict of interest. The
Hawai`i County Charter provides that legislative power of the
County shall be vested in the County Council and that its primary
functions shall be legislation. This mandate is separate and distinct
from that of the Administrative Branch. Although Council is
charged to enact policies for the best interest and benefit of the
people, there's always the potential for legislation that comes
before the Council to be controversial to some degree. Given that
reality, we, as legislators must be diligent, honest, and
collaborative in every piece of legislation we propose, to ensure as
best we can, that a proposed law brings balance, fairness and
enhances the quality of life for the people of Hawaii County. The
Hawaii County Charter, Article XIV, Section 14-2, which sets
forth standards that will constitute a conflict of interest. I believe
in this situation, the questions of standard that may have some
applicability could be Sections 14-2(b) and (c). The question is
whether Ms. Eoff is using her position as a Council member, to get
special privileges, consideration, treatment or exemption beyond
what is available to every other person. I say no. Or is her
ownership of a condominium unit incompatible with Ms. Eoff
properly discharging her duties as a Council member? I also say
no. Or does that ownership impair her independent judgment
when performing her official duties? Again the answer would be
no. Therefore in my humble opinion, both standards that could be
a applied to determine a conflict in Ms. Eoff's case, have not been
met. Also, Hawai`i County Code(Chapter 2, Article 15, Sections
2-83(b)(d) and Section 2-84(a)(1) and (3), also contains specific
sections pertaining to the Code of Ethics. I will not address the
Hawaii County Code provisions because those have been fully
addressed by Ms. Eoff in her petition but I totally support her
position on that also. So from a professional and personal
perspective, it is my conviction that Ms. Eoff has been diligent,
honest, and collaborative in every legislation with which she has
been involved, and especially so with the proposed legislation
regarding short-term vacation rentals. I would also note that Rule
11 of our Council Rules of Procedure and Organization, disclosure
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of interest provides that the proper venue and timing for a Council
member to make full disclosure in writing of any potential conflict
of interest is to be made before the Chair of the Council. So
although I've expressed my belief as to Ms. Eoff that there appears
to be no clear and undisputed conflict of interest in my mind, in an
abundance of caution and with sensitivity to public perception, she
has chosen to seek the advice and direction of this board and I
honor her for that. Ms. Eoff has always conducted herself and
performed her duties as a legislator and community advocate in an
honest and lawful manner, always with justice and fairness in
mind. In closing, I respectfully urge the members of this board to
find that no conflict of interest exist with respect to Ms. Eoff and I
really thank you for your time in allowing me to express my
thoughts...Mahalo Nui.
Ms. Kahakalau: Mahalo Nui Council member David...we appreciate it...Roy
Takemoto please...again sir if can introduce yourself and let us
know the agenda item you wish to testify on.
Mr. Takemoto: Roy Takemoto...good morning members of the board...Mayor's
office....I'm here to address agenda item 5a...my name was
mentioned earlier in one of the first testimonies as one who has
worked on this draft bill 108...and I'm here to confirm that that
our office...the Mayor's office has held this vacation rental issue
in high priority and that we started working on this bill from last
year...we sent the letter to your board dated March 14...Nancy
Pisicchio one of the executive assistants drafted the letter...and in
that letter it outlined the Mayor's office role in the developing the
draft bill...so Nancy and I were the ones that did the background
research and defined what a vacation rental is which means...we
narrowed the target of the regulation to single family
dwellings...single family dwellings not condos or apartments...we
wanted to make that single family dwellings where the owner was
not present...so in a hotel or condo...hotel you have someone at
the desk checking people in...this was not the intent of the
bill...the bill was to address single family dwellings that were
being rented on a short-term basis...not in residential that were
primarily residential areas causing problems so that was the target
we wanted to control where theses short-term rentals would be and
direct them to more appropriate locations which would be resort
areas and general commercial...we then requested the Kona
legislators to see if they were interested to introduce it knowing
that Kona is where a lot of these short-term rentals issues were
very controversial and heated...and they consented...and they did
some minor changes but...I would say the bill as introduced we
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would have introduced basically the same thing...without much
substantive difference from as it has been introduced.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you Mr. Takemoto...I appreciate it...Mr. Joseph
Kamelamela please...Aloha Mai.
Mr. Kamelamela: Aloha Chair and members of the Board of Ethics...my name is
Joseph Kamelamela...I'm the Corp. Counsel...County of
Hawaii..I'm going to be speaking on Petition 2018-03...most of
the statement that I'll be making would be...based on the letter that
I just submitted this morning...that's addressed to the board...in
this petition...Council member Karen Eoff...District 8...Vice-
Chair of the Council...Chair of the Planning Committee...requests
a determination of the Board of Ethics as to whether she can
introduce, discuss, or vote on proposed bill 108 that regulates
short-term vacation rentals of residential units in zones not
currently specifically zoned for or designated for hotel and resort
type uses. Bill 108 serves to provide the County with the tools to
allow short-term vacation rental to operate on the island of Hawai`i
and to regulate them and to protect our residential
neighborhoods...because as we have read in the papers you know
there has been a lot of controversy of many of certain areas where
there has been...you know an influx of such...short-term rentals
which actually is taken away you know some rental units that are
needed for people here. Now for the information and reasons that I
will state hereafter, we believe that there's no conflict of interest
that should refrain or recuse Council member Eoff from
deliberating or voting on bill 108. Council member Eoff...true she
owns a unit within the Kona Islander Inn...which is designated for
hotel uses by the Hawai`i County zoning code. Bill 108 will not
change the current zoning for Council member Eoff s unit, but she
would have to register the use of the individual unit as a short-term
vacation rental...and neither will she receive any additional land
use privileges of unit upon passage of bill 108. The reason why
I'm here is so that you know people would have a better
understanding on how the County Council you know....operates
and so the County Council...they determine through it's rules and
order of business on how to you know do legislation...you know
there's public hearings that they go through okay and then so
there's a process and so in accordance with the County Council
rules of procedure and organization of the 2016 -2018 Council
term...it's states that any member of the Council who has a
substantial financial and/or personal interest direct or indirect, in
any action proposed or pending before the Council or a
Committee, shall make full disclosure in writing to the Chairperson
of such interest prior to the taking of any vote thereon as provided
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by Section 14-3(a) of the Hawai`i County Charter...now what I did
was make copies of the pertinent rules that apply here...both rules
10 and 11...now Rule 11, paragraph 1 you know...states that you
have to make full disclosure...now in another portion of that same
rule...any member who has a substantial financial and/or personal
interest directly affected in any action or proposal pending before
the Council or Committee shall refrain from deliberating on said
action and shall be excused from voting on matter thereon...but
it's important to look at the rule further to see what the definition
of substantial is...substantial means an interest which is sufficient
in magnitude to influence one's official action...under the
rules...Council members must vote unless excused by the
Chairperson for stated conflict of interest...Rule 10, paragraph 6 of
the rules states...no member shall refrain from voting unless
excused by the Chairperson for stated conflict of interest...now
pursuant to the chartered rules...any alleged incidental or indirect
financial and/or personal interest is not a basis for a Council
member to refrain from deliberating or voting on a matter so...so
you had heard earlier...Council member David had informed this
body you know as to you know what is businesses...what is work
is and so in rule...you know like this under section 14(a)...you
know all the Hawai`i Charter recognizes is that you know...the
Council members have to operate you know but...but they have
rules so...so looking at section 14-3(a) of the Hawaii County
Charter...it provides that any member of the Council who knows
of a personal interest direct or indirect in any action proposed or
pending before the Council shall disclose such interest prior to the
taking of any votes...so that makes sense you know...you disclose
it...it's out there...and...then they conduct...they conduct the
business and it's up to the Chair as that time to decide you know
whether the person should refrain or recuse him or herself...I have
one example because you know...we had just been...last year
anyways where a Council members have been...deliberating on
increase and decrease both fuel and property taxes...now as we all
know...you know...I'm sure that most of the Council members
own vehicles so you know so they would be taxing
themselves...most of the Council members that I know of you
know have real property so you know again it's either a benefit or
you know a burden to them so doesn't make sense you know in a
situation like that that they don't get to vote or nobody's gonna
vote you know...so these rules recognize also how government
operates in these kinds of situations...now...a failure to disclose a
financial and/or personal interest, direct or indirect, could violate
Section 14-3 of the Hawaii County Code. There's a case that I
cited Hui Malama Aina O Koolau v. Paccarro, 4 Haw. App.
304...that was decided back in 1983 and in that particular case
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there was evidence that a Council member and I didn't want to
name the Council member...for some personal reasons...not that I
know him but a Council member who failed to disclose an indirect
personal interest in zoning proposal because he would have
benefited from the road improvements...so that's a perfect
example of a Council member receiving a direct benefit...but the
court noted that you know such failure to strictly comply with the
disclosure requirement implicitly disqualified the Council member
until he made the required disclosure so...so perhaps if the person
had you know...disclosed it...I'm not too sure what the Chair is...I
mean what the Chair would've done but the Chair could've just
said okay vote...why because well your vote is just one of nine and
from what I know about the voting...this particular situation you
know we had six in favor which is the majority...in this
situation...as I understand from what has been...disclosed and
what I know about the case...there's no substantial financial and/or
personal interest directly benefiting Council member Eoff from her
deliberation or voting on bill 108. So even if Mr. Guzman had
made some allegations of such...interest...you know there's
nothing substantial about it...even if you assume a conflict of
interest...Council member Eoff should be able to deliberate and
vote on bill 108 so long as she disclosed it in writing prior to
deliberation and voting of bill 108...ownership of the rental unit at
Kona Islander Inn...this unit is already zoned for hotel and resort
type uses...bill 108 would now require her to register her unit as a
short-term vacation rental with the Planning Department and
neither does she gain additional land use privileges from the
enactment of bill 108...do you have any further questions or
comments please contact me...I'11 be sitting right over there.
Thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you Mr. Kamelamela...Mahalo...that concludes our
statements from the public on agenda items.
3. APPROVAL OF THE REGULAR SESSION MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 13, 2018.
(10:32 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Our next item on the agenda is the approval of the regular session
minutes of February 13, 2018.
Mr. Goodenow: Madame Chair I move that we approve the minutes.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion?
Mr. Goodenow: I need a second.
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Ms. Kahakalau: A second?
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I'll second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay...any discussion?
Mr. Goodenow: No.
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright all in favor say aye...any opposed? Motion is carried
unanimously.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to approve the minutes. Ms. Sumner-Mack
seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
4. COMMUNICATION
a. Letter from a member of the public dated February 13, 2018 requesting that
the Hawai'i County Board of Ethics conduct an investigation as to whether a
Hawai'i Council Member violated the Hawai'i County Code of Ethics.
(Deferred 10:57 a.m./Back 11:46 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Our next item is communication specifically a letter from member
from the public dated February 13, 2018. So does everybody have
the letter?
Mr. Goodenow: Madame Chair...I would ask that we move this matter until after
Petition 2018-03 since a lot of the...subject matter is the same
perhaps there's additional subject matter but...I ask that we take
that out of order and move it to after 5b...that we take 5b first.
Ms. Kahakalau: Is that a motion?
Mr. Goodenow: Yes.
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay do I hear a second?
Mr. Robinson: Second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion in terms of moving the item?
Mr. Yoshimoto: Madame Chair just real quick since Mr. Guzman wrote the
letter...I don't know if you wanted to ask for his input...I don't
know if he's here or not too as a courtesy...
Mr. Goodenow: Is he here?
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Ms. Kahakalau: Okay.
Mr. Robinson: Oh Mr. Guzman.
Mr. Yoshimoto: It's up to you Madame Chair...
Mr. Goodenow: Would you like to make a comment...we just want to move this.
Mr. Guzman: Since my points regarding the conflict of interest are in the
letter...I think it's very important that those since I didn't get to
speak also perfectly...
Mr. Yoshimoto: You need to get on the mic.
Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Guzman why don't you come up please...
Mr. Goodenow: At this time then...I would like to move that we go into executive
session for the purposes of consulting with our attorney...there's a
matter that has come to my attention that I think we need to discuss
first...and we'll get to you...I hate to do this..sight everyone's
here...it should be very short but if we...I'd like to move into
executive session.
Mr. Yoshimoto: You don't want to hear what he says first?
Mr. Robinson: Yeah...before you...
Mr. Goodenow: Before there's any discussion matter...we should go into executive
session.
Ms. Kahakalau: And what is the reason for executive session?
Mr. Goodenow: To consult with our attorney.
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay...so Mr. Guzman if you can excuse us...we need a second
first and a....
Mr. Robinson: I'll second that.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion? All in favor of going into executive session say
aye...any opposed...so we will go into executive session...that
means everybody has to leave the room and we will try and make
this short...we do appreciate your time...
Mr. Goodenow: Thank you...sorry...I would ask that Mr. Kamelamela be present.
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Ms. Kahakalau: Okay...Mr. Kamelamela if you could come to the front please in
case we have any questions...thank you...Mr. Kamelamela...
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to go into executive session to consult with the
board's attorney. Mr. Robinson seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
10:34 a.m. ** The board entered executive session **
* * * * *
10:51 a.m. ** The board returned to regular session **
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you very much for your patience. We are on agenda item
4...we just went into executive session to consult with our attorney
and I believe our attorney has a statement...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay. Thank you Madame Chair...Madame Chair I wanted to
disclose...my past working relationship with Council member Eoff
and just for the board's and publics information....back in 2008
when I was Council Chair she was a part of our staff...when I was
Council member and then also in 2012 when I was Council Chair
she served as Vice-Chair...to the Council...so in the past we've
had a working relationship...it's always been that way...there are
no financial interest or involvement has never been...I reviewed
the County code in terms of the conflict of interest provision as
well as the fair treatment provision and I don't see any issues there
but I wanted to bring it to the board's attention and to mention it to
the public to make sure that everyone is fully aware of that
situation and of course...let the board proceed how it...wants to...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...we appreciate that...what I'd like to do so referred
from our...counsel in regards to his disclosure about a past
working relationship...Councilman Eoff would it be possible for
you to come up and we just want verify what your opinion is in
regards to the relationship between you and counsel J...counsel
member J Yoshimoto in terms of you know just to get your
perception...if you concur or disagree....
Ms. Eoff: What he stated is accurate.
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright thank you very much...
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Mr. Goodenow: Could we ask you...you have no objection to him serving as our
counsel for this matter?
Ms. Eoff: No.
Mr. Goodenow: Thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you very much...I'd also like to ask Mr. Guzman if you
could please come up and let us know how...you heard the
disclosure and we just would like to get your opinion just on that
piece now then we'll have you come up one more time afterwards
if that's alright..
Mr. Guzman: Inaudible.
Ms. Kahakalau: So you're okay...alright...I really appreciate that...thank you very
much...then counsel any thoughts...
Mr. Robinson: I just thought I would make a motion that there's no...there's no
conflict of interest and we should proceed with the hearing with
Mr. Yoshimoto as our counsel.
Mr. Goodenow: I'll second that.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any more discussion?
Mr. Goodenow: I'll just say we...you know I looked at the fair treatment provision
and the conflict of interest provision of the code and it doesn't
appear to be any conflict...there's no...I'll leave it at that
and...that's all.
Ms. Kahakalau: So if there's no further discussion...I call for the question...all in
favor say aye...alright so we found that there's no conflict of
interest in regards to J advising our Board of Ethics in this
matter...it's always a little bit difficult because we're you know
Hawai`i is small and we all run into each other...I've seen
Councilman Eoff at many functions and you know and we're not
directly related to government for example privately as well and so
we have to just know that as professionals right it's our duty to act
ethically and to you know abide by these codes that are set for
us...Mr. Goodenow.
Mr. Goodenow: Just to throw out there to...I don't think we need to vote on it
but...Ms. Eoff did give me a picture...a print...a very pretty print
that was done by her husband when I left being County clerk and it
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does hang in my house...but...I mean we really haven't had very
much interaction at all...thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...alright so we are going to move to a
communication...the letter from a member of the public dated
February 13, 2018....this letter was submitted my Mr.
Guzman...Mr. Guzman could you please come up one more
time...I really appreciate it...thank you and...just give us your
summary please...
Mr. Guzman: I mean I can give my summary...t hope everyone on the board has
actually read the entire letter...the email exchange...the...article in
Hawai`i Herald-Tribune...February 11, 2018 which discusses
everything detail...my concern of course is that Ms. Eoff does own
a transient vacation rental...I did not know this...I sent her an
email...as in my letter asking about this...because I had evidence
that she had a license for a GE license and TA license but that
mean that she had one...I had no idea...so that's why I asked her
about it...and I asked if would...you know not knowing the details
of it...where it was...or what zone it was in...if she would be
grandfathered in or not...I certainly never said it would be
grandfathered in...I didn't even know she had one honestly...I
suspected she did because she had a TA license...and of course
here response was that I do not have and have never had a rental of
any kind...please stop sending me misinformation...so there was
no misinformation in my communication...and as we know of
course she did have a rental and I think what she'll try to argue is
that she misunderstood what I was asking...I don't know...that
doesn't seem valid to me...so there is a concern...number one she
lied to me as voter in Hawai`i...not only that she didn't have a
vacation rental but she'd never had any rental of any kind which
seems like a very strong statement for someone to make and it
sounded...came across with a great degree of certainty...when she
as someone who is a legislator...and by definition has more power
than just a voter...and has power over me in terms of regulating
many aspects of my life...the work I do...driving...vacation rental
I co-own...all kinds of things...for her to say stop sending
misinformation I found that an intimidating statement and an
attempt on her part to silence me...and I find that...quite
disturbing...it was also discovered...Ms. Nancy Cook-Lauer
discovered that she had no disclosed any income as she's required
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to from this property...she is...my understanding the Vice-Chair of
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the Finance Committee...and a business owner from more than
thirty-five years but apparently...doesn't understand the difference
between income and profit because when she was questioned about
this she said well it had never turned a profit so therefore...I didn't
disclose it...any of the income from it...I know that you know just
having done my taxes...I never profit off of any money I made
from my job...vacation rental...my farming...you know I can't tell
the IRS that well I'm just not going to put it down here because it
wasn't a profit...that wouldn't fly with the IRS and shouldn't fly
with her statement and I think is incumbent on her to provide proof
that she has filed GE taxes...what would be evidence of ever
having more than a thousand income is she ever had a GE or TA
tax filing of a hundred and thirty-four dollars or more in any of the
years that she's been on the Council...if she...if there's evidence
that she's paid more than that...that means that she's taking in
more than a thousand dollars and would be required to have
disclosed that income...she never has...she's also not provided
proof that she has filed her taxes...the statement in the original
article is incorrect...Ms. Cook-Lauer just took her word of her
saying that she had filed the taxes but she didn't actually get any
evidence and...no proof has been provided that she has...so there's
questions not only about whether she should recuse herself or not
but whether if it's appropriate for a Council member to lie to a
member of the public and say that they don't...have never owned
any rental of any kind when they know they have a vacation rental
currently...what is also different...I know the lawyer spoke earlier
that...well you know if you have a car then you couldn't legislate
anything about cars okay...well it's not that you have a car...it's
that if you were renting out your car as a business...then yes if you
were proposing legislation that had to do with car rental businesses
you'd have to recuse yourself..if I was on the Council as a banana
farmer...if I were to pass something that said all...of all other
farmers have to register and pay five hundred dollars a year to run
their farm...except banana farmers...that would be a conflict of
interest because I would be harming the competition...creating
basically a tax that they would have to pay it that I would be
exempted from and that's exactly what's happening with bill
108...is she...is basically adding a burden to the competition that
is outside of these limited resort zones...while she would have to
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register...she...the way the bill is written is that...her being able to
have it as her condo as a vacation rental would continue even if she
sells it...were there's nothing in the bill to allow anybody else that
gets grandfathered in to have one of these things...to pass on the
license to the next person that purchases that property...so that
also...over time...you know the goal is to lower the number of
competing vacation rentals outside of the very exclusive you know
high income not diverse at all resort zones like the one that Ms.
Eoff has a vacation rental in...that...absolutely benefits her as
there is less competition...just like if all if you know my vacation
rental was there and all the other ones in neighborhood went
away...I could charge a lot more...you know if I didn't...if I paid
nothing and they all had to pay five hundred dollars a year...that
would be an unfair advantage for me...so it is an unfair advantage
for Ms. Eoff and unfortunately she has not recused herself from
this process I know that she's taken meetings on this issue even
since she's asked the board to give her a ruling on whether or not
there's a conflict of interest here...I don't know if there's
any...aspects of the Sunshine Law that were violated I only
brought that up because Ms. David expressed concern several
months ago when I was trying to get input from other Council
members before this legislation was even proposed...that Ms.
David didn't feel it was appropriate for her to comment on it
because really no more than two Council members and there were
already two Council members that were discussing it so she did not
want to be part that so...you know I don't know if any other
Council members violated that...I feel like overall that's a minor
issue and not something I'm not especially...personally informed
about...regarding the Sunshine Laws but figured those on the
Ethics Board could take a moment and at least consider...was there
anything that could have violated the Sunshine Laws in this
process...so that's pretty much it... I mean I think it's...you know
there's also of course the issue...should she recuse herself..the
second issue is are there any consequences for her lying to
someone and saying that she's never owned a rental of any kind
and using County funds...County computers to do that...you know
the minor issue of were there any Sunshine Laws violated...but
ultimately...I think the biggest issue is did she fail to disclose
every having more than a thousand dollars income from this
transient vacation rental that she co-owns...that seems very
15
important and I think...honestly I think that's the biggest issue
here...if public officials are required to disclose
income....specifically because there could be conflict of interest in
various matters if they don't do it and then they get called on by
reporters and they insist that...nope they've never had even a
thousand dollars in income on this property in years...I find that
very difficult to believe and records around GE and tax
filings...State and federal income tax filings would show whether
or not that statement is true...as a co-owner of vacation rental...as
I put in my letter...you know even at seventy-nine dollars a
night...we brought in more than a thousand dollars in the first
month so I find it very difficult to believe that in a very high
demand...you know unit at the Kona Islander Inn...that she's
never taken in a thousand dollars in rental income in years...I find
that very difficult to believe so I think it's critical that she explains
that and provides independent verifiable proof to substantiate what
she's saying regarding that....thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you Mr. Guzman...do we have any questions?...Mr.
Goodenow?
Mr. Goodenow: You know it's a little unusual...normally we have petitions
right...petitions are put on the agenda...you sent kind of a
letter...communication asking us to investigate...which...is
fine...my concern though is the Sunshine Law...this is listed as
communication...if we were to say...yeah let's investigate and
let's have a vote on that...would we be precluded from doing that
because of the Sunshine Law would we have to agendize this in a
subsequent meeting...maybe we could make the motion but
couldn't vote...you know and would there be fair notice to...Ms.
Eoff in a sense because even though she's here...she has her own
petition...that does relate to the conflict of interest...but the issue
of the financial disclosure form...really isn't addressed in her
petition necessarily so that's kind of..something additional and if
we were to take action...I'm a little concerned about...proper
notice...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay...you're asking me a question...okay...thank you Mr.
Goodenow...so you make good points...so first of all notice...due
process so...you're right that...Ms. Eoff would have to have
proper notice...enough time to prepare a response right...in terms
of the conflict of interest...we're already here with her petition so
16
we're good with that...but the other issues that Mr. Guzman
raises...technically speaking...legally speaking...she should be
provided appropriate notice...now of course she could...waive that
if she should choose to do so...but on the same token...you know
the board chooses to investigate...the code allows for the board to
petition for an informal advisory so you could do an investigation
on your own...but you're correct there would be some type of
vehicle like a petition moving forward...so the request for
investigation is appropriate today and the board can act upon it by
saying it will agendize for the next time to conduct further
investigation...provide proper notice...or you know Ms. Eoff
could proceed forward but you know there's several issues...and
the most concerning to me would be petition process itself
because...well...you know Mr. Goodenow that...Mr. Guzman
raised a lot of issues and so there significant issues...I don't
know...we should ask Ms. Eoff...yeah.
Mr. Goodenow: Yeah...what I'm thinking maybe after hearing that is...could we
defer action on your request at this point and move to the petition
for Ms. Eoff...handle that issue...conflict...does she have a
conflict...and then we could decide after that...if we want to
independently investigate other issues that are raised in your
letter...does that sound reasonable....would you have an objection
to that if we kind of separated it and just did the conflict....
Mr. Guzman: I don't have...I don't have...may concern about that was that I
wasn't able to say my piece and I don't...has everyone read
this...then that's all I need to know.
Mr. Goodenow: I must say though...on the printing on the emails...
Mr. Guzman: Yeah I know...
Mr. Goodenow: Very hard....especially the one on...the second page...if you have
a cleaner copy...you could just pass around...I could look at it...I
can't really read much of that at all...
Ms. Kahakalau: February 8 one...that one is not readable...
Mr. Guzman: I have my print out copy which you probably need reading glasses
for but...
Ms. Kahakalau: Very small.
17
Mr. Goodenow: Do you mind just passing it around and we could take a look.
Mr. Guzman: You can have all of it if you want.
Mr. Goodenow: But if you don't have an objection then I would....
Mr. Guzman: I don't have an objection...
Mr. Goodenow: That we move that we...table this matter until...
Mr. Guzman: And I was given the same advice by your lawyer to that you know
you were all able to consider an investigation on your own just
based on the letter and that I had the right to petition later if I
wanted to...
Mr. Goodenow: Oh good you talked to Mr. Yoshimoto about that then...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah.
Mr. Goodenow: I move that we table this matter until after item 5b...
Mr. Robinson: Second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Second...any discussion in regards to that...all in favor say
aye...so thank you Mr. Guzman...don't go anywhere...we
appreciate it....
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to table the matter until after item 5b.
Mr. Robinson seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
11:46 a.m. ** Board returned to 4a **
Ms. Kahakalau: I'm assuming we're going back to the agenda 4a...so if you don't
mind just waiting a few more minutes just in case...Mr. Guzman
could you please come up one more time...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Madame Chair you would a motion to remove from the table...
Mr. Goodenow: I move to remove 4a from the table.
Mr. Robinson: Second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay...any discussion...all in favor say aye...alright...so we are
back to your communication so...and I hope you see why it was
kind of important to go that route so I guess what I'm saying if
there are other issues that you feel warrant an investigation then
basically it would be filing that petition...so that we can then
18
actually agenda and move forward...because a letter you know is
not really our...the way that the process works...does that make
sense Mr. Guzman...
Mr. Guzman: It does...yes...I'd like to point out a couple things though in
her...the testimony that she gave that there were a number of
errors on what she said...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay.
Mr. Guzman: Which is unfortunate again but that's seems to be her MO...she
said that her property is not subject to bill 108...and it absolutely
is...she would be required to register it so...that's the truth...she
said that the grandfathering in or having a license to run a transient
vacation rental would transfer with the sale of the property...that is
not true outside of the zones that they're permitted in in this
legislation...so mine...living in an ag zone would not transfer if I
sold that and again that is how it creates an unfair advantage to her
because eventually in other places these would go away so people
would either have to stay in hotels or in vacation rentals like hers
in permitted zones...so when she made that statement...that was
incorrect and she knows it because she's the one introducing the
bill...there is also nothing currently in the bill to guarantee that a
single unit will be grandfathered in...it is incredibly
vague...doesn't say what documentation is going to be
needed...doesn't have...saying anything about an appeals
process...doesn't say anything about how exactly these will be
determined whether or not any of them would be grandfathered
in...so based on legislation that is currently written...there really is
nothing to guarantee that even the single unit will be grandfathered
in...
Ms. Kahakalau: So...I mean those...
Mr. Guzman: One more final thing...she also said basically that hosted
rentals...would not be regulated if somebody lives on the
property...that wouldn't be regulated...well that's not true
either...if someone lives on their property they're allowed to rent
out one room or an Ohana on their property...there are many
people that live on the property but they have multiple units and
they're renting out multiple rooms...that would not be allowed by
bill 108 and she stated the opposite that those people are not going
19
to be regulated and that's simply not true...in fact even those that
have a single room would be regulated because they would be
required to register also...so those are at least three incorrect
statements that she just presented to all of you...my concern to is
that there/she seemed to be getting a green light in all future
counselors are getting a green light that they can simply fail to
disclose income at any time as long at some point they come back
and say well I just forgot...I misunderstood even though I've run a
business for thirty-five years...I don't know what income means
versus profit even though as the Vice-Chair of the Finance
Committee...I don't know what income is versus profit and I
simply misunderstood...so if that's okay...then that's okay and the
board's on record as saying yeah in the future go ahead and hide
whatever you want as long as you come out and disclose it once
you're caught.
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright...I appreciate your comments...I just wanted to let you
know that...if there are...the merits of the bill is not our Kuleana
right now...that's not our responsibility....
Mr. Guzman: Of course not....
Ms. Kahakalau: And I can see that you have issues with the bill...and there is a
process you know for you and others to comment as the rules to
the legislature...
Mr. Guzman: I have a comment....inaudible....
Ms. Kahakalau: Using that process...as far as the...your other concerns about the
financials...if that is a concern...then you need to put that into a
petition and then we can hear that separately...but this was not
the...issue of Petition No. 2018-03 which we just heard...so we
have not made any determination in regards to that because there
has been no petition brought to us so if that's something that you
feel that is concerning to you...then you know that's one
thing...but I'd like to ask Counsel just in terms of the statements
that were just made...to clarify...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay to be clear...the board has the ability to also initiate an
investigation...so the board can do that as well...so based on the
information provided by Mr. Guzman...the board could also
initiate a petition or it could allow Mr. Guzman to do that as
well...so there's two options right I mean...just to be clear...
20
Mr. Goodenow: But there's no...I mean....difference as far as time...if he did his
petition and it went on our next agenda or we did it...and it went
on our next agenda...we're still not gonna....go to the merits of it
today because of...Sunshine law...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Yes...because there are due process notice concerns so it would
not be advisable to proceed today but just to make clear...there are
two options tracks...the difference is that if Mr....if any one files a
petition...then they're a party to the case and then they have a right
to speak...right...but if the board initiates it...then the board can
determine or call whoever it wants to but that may or may not
include Mr. Guzman...so there's some differences in how
you....go ahead...
Mr. Goodenow: So...thank you for that...go advice...Mr. Guzman...having heard
that...I mean...I'm willing to consider filing a petition and the
board doing it but...I think it would be easier on us and you would
also be a party of you filed the petition...
Mr. Guzman: Okay...
Mr. Goodenow: Would you be okay with that if we defer taking action on this and
you go ahead...file your petition and we agendize that...in so
much as it deals with not whether she can vote or not...
Mr. Guzman: Yeah.
Mr. Goodenow: Cause that's been decided...
Mr. Guzman: Right based on her...
Mr. Goodenow: But based on what you concluded with about filing disclosure
statements...anything else you want to include...
Mr. Guzman: Am I able to see what she has provided as far as her income...so
that can be on public record...I mean I think it's...
Mr. Goodenow: That's public record....yes.
Mr. Guzman: Okay is that something I can get access today before I leave?
Mr. Goodenow: Yeah.
Mr. Guzman: Okay...because I'm very curious about....
Ms. Kahakalau: That would be great so...go ahead...
21
Mr. Goodenow: I was going to move that we...
Mr. Robinson: I just want if I could...Mr. Guzman...I listened to the five points
that you made...and the first one about her unit not being subject
to...the second one about not transfer upon sale...the third one
about nothing to demonstrate grandfathering and the fourth one
about where you may have one room or you may have an
Ohana...where you may have more and registering all of
those...those are really the merits of 108 itself..
Mr. Guzman: Those were all things she said to establish that she had no conflict
of interest and those were not...those were all incorrect statements
that she provided to you all in order to state her case that she had
no conflict of interest...
Mr. Robinson: Okay...I understand....
Mr. Guzman: That's why...the merits of them...it's that she just told you...for
several things that are not true...
Mr. Robinson: Okay...alright...
Mr. Goodenow: To follow up on...Mr. Robinson's point though that those
issues...whether you like it not right...we dealt with....
Mr. Guzman: Yeah...
Mr. Goodenow: Because we're saying she can vote...she can do she wants on
that...
•
Mr. Guzman: That's fine...
Mr. Goodenow: It's really the fifth thing that you mentioned that might be a
separate petition...
Mr. Robinson: Right....
Mr. Goodenow: Focus on that...but given that...given the statement that Mr.
Guzman has indicated that he will be filing a petition...
Mr. Guzman: I can make a decision about that yeah...
Mr. Goodenow: Well...I move that we just close...we file communication 4a...
Mr. Robinson: Second.
22
Mr. Goodenow: Cause I mean we're just gonna file it...we're not going to do
anything at this point...
Mr. Guzman: I understand that...
Mr. Goodenow: Alight...
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright...that's the motion...do we have a second...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: Second...
Ms. Kahakalau: Any further discussion in regards to that....alright...
Mr. Guzman: If I can get a copy of her filings that would be great...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yes...okay....then all in favor say aye...any opposed so that
motion is carried...Thank you Mr. Guzman...
Mr. Guzman: Thank you.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to file the communication. Ms. Sumner-Mack
seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
5. NEW BUSINESS (11:12 a.m.)
a. Petition No. 2018-03: Request for an Informal Advisory Opinion from a
County Officer to determine whether there is a conflict of interest by
introducing certain legislation before the Hawai'i County Council.
Ms. Kahakalau: We will move on based on our most recent vote...to 5b...new
business...Petition No. 2018-03...Ms. Eoff could you please come
up...Aloha again...and if you could please summarize your
petition.
Ms. Eoff: Thank you...although I realize Mr. Guzman's communication is a
separate matter...some of his concerns might be addressed during
this discussion if you have questions...
Ms. Kahakalau: I think that was the reason why Mr. Goodenow asked to table the
other one...thank you.
Ms. Eoff: So as you know I'm Karen Eoff...I am the Vice-Chair of the
Council...this is my third term...and previous to serving on the
Council I was a legislative staff in the legislative branch...I also
staffed the Charter Commission and the Redistricting Commission
during that time...and I worked for the previous Councilman in
23
Kona as well....so...yes I personally don't believe that I have
violated any provisions of the Code of Ethics...the County Charter
or our Council Rules up to this point and I am here today to find
out if the Code of Ethics would prevent me from co-sponsoring
this legislation...and or discussing it and voting on it so...that's
why drafted the petition...I took to heart the concerns that were
raised and...as soon as they were raised I did seek some guidance
and felt that my best route would be to come here first...so
withheld at the agreement of the co-sponsor Councilman
Kanuha...we asked to withhold the bill because it was going to go
on the agenda and until such time as I can get a clear way to
proceed...so I brought copies of the memo that I sent to the Chair
of the Council if you would like it...it just explains why I asked to
withhold the bill at that point and time...so I am the Chair of the
Planning Committee which is...I felt the reason I was approached
to take on this legislation knowing that it's very...or could be very
controversial and complex...as stated earlier in public testimony
which I completely concur with...the bill had been worked on by
the administration for almost a year...I had heard about it but I
hadn't had any input in it...I attended a couple of collaborative
meetings with different departments because there was a lot of
back and forth on how this County would like to proceed to
regulate the short-term vacation rentals...and then at one point I
can't remember exactly but it was the end of..towards the end of
last year...that administration actually approached Councilman
Kanuha and I and asked if we would consider being the co-
sponsors...I think they realized that...we would have a better
opportunity to answer questions of the public once the information
was out there because it's very...yes...many people would be
affected and there's many people on both sides of the issue that
have emailed us and called us and we have had meetings with
various stake-holders to try and get what is actual regulated and
what isn't and what the processes are for those currently operating
short-term vacation rentals...the bill itself took a very middle of
the road approach...as far as we recognized the need for vacation
rentals...we recognized that visitors loved to stay in them...but we
also recognized the need to protect neighborhoods and all of the
conflicts that it may cause if it goes unregulated and so the middle
of the road approach was to be able to grandfather in those existing
who have currently been paying their GE and TAT which would
24
be the legal...State law that they would need to be doing if they
can show that...then all the currently operating vacation rentals
whether they are in the neighborhood...whether they're in
residential zoning...or whether they're in ag would have that
process in order to become grandfathered in...and as Mr.
Takemoto said...only would apply to those vacation rentals where
there is no owner on site...so any other type of rental wouldn't be
covered in this bill...and has been stated...my husband and I do
own... a small condo unit at the Islander and...it's already an
allowable use fare...it's not subject to the proposed lqgislation and
I don't believe I have any financial significant financial gain...so
as I said I don't believe I violated any provisions of the Code of
Ethics but I took the concerns to heart and I appreciate your
guidance in this matter...there is some references in the petition
itself that I may not have covered just now...and I'm sure you've
read through that but I did want to address the conflict of interest
that Mr. Guzman has pointed out and as far as our email exchange
which yes was very unfortunate...I was involved in another
meeting when my staff brought me the email because it was very
concerning the way it was written...it was...cc'd to all the Council
members and the Mayor I think and I don't know if the
Prosecuting Attorney...but it was to me it like a global outrage
because it was cc'd to newspapers...and I replied very rapidly on
my IPhone...it was a hastily response which isn't my normal
approach to email exchanges but I did it because it seemed like I
better stop this right now because I don't own a vacation rental that
would require grandfathering in...and my first read of his email to
me was just that...I thought he was accusing me of being in a
conflict of interest because I was working on something that would
grandfather me in like a special privilege...but one more thing I
wanted to address about what...the grandfathering in does...it
actually...and this is something we've been discussing but once
the privilege is granted...in a certain zoning district for instance
the grandfathering in of a short-term vacation rental in a residential
area...that use would run with the land...so we will...in essence be
allowing these to continue in the areas that its been operating...I'm
not sure if I should address the financial disclosure issue...I didn't
mention it my petition but I...and if doesn't in any way...I'm not
trying to address his issue but I kind of feel compelled to clear that
up and I don't know if you would advise me to go ahead with that
25
or not...it wasn't something I did put in my petition...I wasn't...I
don't know why I didn't at that point but I...
Ms. Kahakalau: Can you turn on your microphone...thank you.
Mr. Robinson: I'd like to hear from you about that.
Ms. Eoff: And I don't have an attorney with me and I don't want it to
prejudice anything regarding my...
Mr. Goodenow: It's your choice...I mean technically...we're not...this petition
isn't dealing with that except that you have at this point now made
a disclosure....
Ms. Eoff: Right...
Mr. Goodenow: So it's up to you...we're willing I think to hear anything but we
leave that to you...
Ms. Eoff: Well I feel like it's relevant...and that is that yes and I think the
newspaper...bringing it up to me that why didn't I disclose the
income on my financial disclosures to the clerk's office...I did
disclose the ownership of the property on all of my financial
disclosures...when it came to the part that is...the direction are to
state any income that you received over a thousand dollars...an
income over a thousand dollars...and...yes I do pay GE and TAT
on a much...on a gross income of the condo as well as my
husband's other business...and...but I didn't understand that to
mean gross income...and I...the net income on the condo is less
than a thousand...I also...did that for all the way from 2013...1
mistakenly understood that to mean...that income...I did the same
mistake on my husband's income on our business...I didn't report
the...range of the gross...I reported the range of the net...but we
• do officially pay our all of our federal taxes and our state taxes
appropriately and I did...I know it's not part of this hearing but I
did bring it with me just for the sake of having it...so...after that
became clear...I did bring that up with Corp. Counsel and they
explained to me that yes state law requires all income...gross
income to be reported but our instructions form on our particular
disclosure instructions for the County clerk's office doesn't say
that...it's vague or it could be misunderstood which I
misunderstood it....so as soon as I realized that was an error...I
asked the clerk what is the appropriate corrective action and they
26
said I should submit amended reports so I went back from 2013
and I fixed the proper letter that you put of the range for all of the
income that...my husband and I have as gross income...so...I
wanted to explain that...I don't know what the...any other remedy
is but I did what I was told by the clerk's office...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...and...
Ms. Eoff: There was no intention to not to disclose six years back about a
condo unit that I am currently involved in legislation that might or
might not be in conflict so I think that show that it was just a...an
error on my part but it wasn't in any way connected to this bill or
anything that we're discussing today.
Ms. Kahakalau: So Council member FYI...all of those financial disclosure forms
are in our packet there yeah...
Ms. Eoff: Yeah.
Ms. Kahakalau: I had a...just a quick question...this is just more semantics in
regards to the...your request...it's generally about the conflict of
interest in introducing but...to me...it would also mean in terms of
voting for it right...I just want to make sure that somebody doesn't
come up and...
Ms. Eoff: I know that that's what it says on the...
Ms. Kahakalau: By introducing a certain legislation but it would also be conflict of
interest in terms of voting...
Ms. Eoff: Yes...no it says introducing on your caption...on your
agenda...but in my petition...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay.
Ms. Eoff: I've asked...is there anything that prevents me from introducing,
discussing or voting on it...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay...I'm sorry...
Ms. Eoff: So I wanted to find answers for all of those things...
Ms. Kahakalau: So we're going to note that on our new business...
Ms. Eoff: I noticed that too on the agenda but it didn't say that...
27
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah just to be...we're gonna if that's alright if we can...can we
kind of correct that agenda item...cause it's just important that we
have it correctly so we'll just add that after introducing on the
second line...we'll put the full statement to make sure that there's
no questioning afterwards...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Madame Chair...we don't really have to amend the agenda...we
can basically note it for the record...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay.
Mr. Yoshimoto: All interested parties are aware of that...yeah...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...
Mr. Robinson: Introducing, discussing or voting on...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah...so at this point we're in discussion...
Mr. Goodenow: I have a question...
Ms. Kahakalau: We can also make a motion...
Mr. Goodenow: Can I ask Ms. Eoff a question...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yes go ahead...
Mr. Goodenow: I could make a motion either way but...you know as far as
voting...what are the procedures for a Council member...before a
vote when they disclose a potential conflict...what is the procedure
at the Council level?
Ms. Eoff: Yes our Council rules of procedure state that we are to...if there is
a conflict of interest...we are to write a letter to the Chair and
disclose it out loud to the Council members prior to a vote and then
I believe the Chairman would either excuse you from voting or
there would be a decision you can go ahead and vote.
Mr. Goodenow: So the Chair would decide that...whether you can vote or not...
Ms. Eoff: That's my understanding...
Mr. Goodenow: Because I...I'm just...to clarify that...you know whether you can
vote or not...as far as...it's...I mean we as the Board of Ethics can
say well you're clear to go ahead right but ultimately it's the
28
Council Chair and ultimately the Council itself...its members that
make that decision...is that correct....
Ms. Eoff: That's my understanding...
Mr. Goodenow: Alright...I don't know Mr. Yoshimoto if...you've got a lot of
experience as Council Chair...
Mr. Yoshimoto: That's my recollection so it's different layers right...I mean the
Board of Ethics interprets the code and then the Council rules
address their own procedure...
Mr. Goodenow: So if there was a substantive issue about whether something was a
conflict or not at the Council level...they would discuss
that...alright...so with that being said...I'm going to move
that...we are advisory opinion should be that Council member Eoff
is allowed to introduce and vote...is not precluded from
voting...better put it that way...on...what's the exact language
here...
Mr. Robinson: Bill 108.
•
Mr. Goodenow: Yeah bill 108...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay.
Mr. Goodenow: Whatever the bill is...does it have a bill number yet...
Ms. Eoff: It does but...
Mr. Goodenow: Sorry I should've been more prepared before making my
motion...let me just restate that...I move that we make a
determination that Council member Eoff can...introduce...is not
precluded from introducing, discussing or voting on proposed bill
108...that regulates short-term vacation rentals...
Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto....
Mr. Yoshimoto: I would advise since you know...bills are live documents as
currently drafted....
Mr. Goodenow: Oh as currently drafted....thank you...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Because it could change...if it changes then they'll...yeah...
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright do we have a second....
29
Mr. Goodenow: This is for discussion...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I'll second it....
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay we have a motion and we have second and so...we have any
further discussion....
Mr. Robinson: I have just a few items I'd like to...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yes.
Mr. Robinson: I read Mr. Guzman's presentation carefully...I read your
presentation carefully...and he makes some points that I
understand...like his concern about the five hundred dollar fee for
the STVR as compared to the TVRs resort zone areas I guess
would not be required to do that annual certification...so there
would be an unfair, competitive advantage and I can understand
that...the perception that maybe you would support that as a
way...you mean there's always like perception is not reality...I tell
my wife that all the time but unfortunately she never believes
me...but I mean I can see that...I can see Mr. Guzman's concerns
and then I can see his concern about you know the emails that he
sent and...the responses that he got is no I didn't and then all of a
sudden yes I do...but understand that you've corrected that and
now the amended annual disclosure...annual statement and so I
think that's good there...it's just you know I can see why Mr.
Guzman submitted his concerns to the Ethics board...I see that
clearly and I think...
Ms. Eoff: Yes...I think...like I said it was a hastily wrote email that I replied
because I didn't want the message to go any further that I was
somehow grandfathering myself into a law that I was working on
so I think you know...just to be clear I didn't draft the language of
the law that sets out those details...
Mr. Robinson: Right...
Ms. Eoff: The five hundred dollars...is only because we are going to be
allowing for a non-conforming use certificate to be applied for
and...so other Counties like Kauai charge seven hundred and fifty
a year for that...it's because you're granting a privilege it's not
actually becoming a permitted use...it's just a requirement in order
to regulate it that...it would help supplement the cost of regulating
30
the program and the Planning Department said that that was a
normal fee that they charge for things...but I just wanted to
mention that the bill has to go thru first of all discussion on the
County Council among nine members...it has to be referred to the
Planning Commission...both Planning Commissions...so certain
details like that aren't even set in stone...a lot of the things in the
bill like someone just said are moving targets...it may not even
come out that way...
Mr. Robinson: Right and I can understand that...
Ms. Eoff: It's just a starting point...
Mr. Robinson: Yeah I'm not arguing as to the structure...I just...the perception...
Ms. Eoff: Yeah.
Mr. Robinson: And the perception...I understand why Mr. Guzman but I just
wanted to make that statement...I can see where the perception
may not be the reality of what it's going to be at the end of the day
when the bill's finally done...I guess my point was that...I can
understand why Mr. Guzman had his concerns and he brought
them to the Ethics Board...
Ms. Eoff: Yes.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...Mr. Goodenow....
Mr. Goodenow: To me this is the easiest of the issues presented because the Charter
as pointed out by Mr. Kamelamela makes it quite clear right
...it provides that as long as there's disclosure...you can vote on
anything right...but you have to disclose it before voting...and the
Charter trumps everything else so I mean...because of that...as
long as there's full disclosure you should be able to vote on
anything even if there was a...you an interest...so to me
that's...more simple and I ask that that be incorporated into our
decision right to quote Charter Section 14-3 I believe...which
states any member of the Council who knows of a personal interest
direct or indirect in any action proposed or pending before the
Council shall disclose such interest prior to taking of any vote
thereon...clearly its anticipated that there would be a vote...at
some point...
31
Mr. Robinson: So the amended statements...would address that point that you just
made...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah.
Mr. Goodenow: Yes.
Mr. Robinson: Disclose prior to vote right....
Mr. Goodenow: Right.
Mr. Robinson: So the amended statement...
Mr. Goodenow: And you've amended it now there's still maybe an issue about
whether you should've done your disclosure separately...that's a
separate issue...
Mr. Robinson: Separate issue.
Mr. Goodenow: But on this issue it seems clear to me that you...are okay...I don't
know if there's any other else that has discussion on that point
so...
Ms. Kahakalau: Anything else Mr. Robinson...
Mr. Robinson: No.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any other concerns...yeah I think the five hundred dollars one was
one of those things but my understanding is that that was already in
there when it came from the Planning Department...so it's really
you know...if it was something that you'd put in there...I would
look at that a little bit differently but if it was something that was
drafted and also you know like you said the bill is still gonna go
thru various levels of scrutiny by different people and so if that is
an issue in general...of other people as then it's gonna be taken up
by those people so you know obviously the fact that you...just as
you disclosed to us you would also make that disclosure every time
it comes in front of your commission...the Planning Commission
or any other commission I think that's what is assumed here...but
that's kind of as far as I'm concerned...in this specific...in this
specific matter of the conflict of interest with this specific
legislation...I also do not find there's any conflict of interest but
the disclosure just to be on the safe side is prudent....
32
Mr. Goodenow: I would add to that under the fair treatment section... 2-83(d) it
says right...nothing herein shall be construed to prohibited an
officer from introducing bills and resolutions, serving on
committees or making statements or taking action in the exercise
of the officer's legislative functions. So clearly you're...that's
a...an exception to the fair treatment section and then as far as
conflict of interest...I believe that...
Mr. Robinson: We know what you mean...
Mr. Goodenow: Well okay...
Ms. Eoff: I shouldn't...what I put in here...addressing that...we just listed
it...I just listed that...no officer or employee shall take any official
action directly affecting a business or other undertaking in which
the officer or employee has a substantial financial interest...so I
don't believe that the legislation would be of any substantial
financial interest to me...if you're talking about the registration fee
as being...applied to some and not others...yes that was already
drafted into the bill...it's up for discussion...it was a starting point
that planning was adamant on keeping in because they want have a
mechanism to pay for the program...for regulation and...some
people have said that's too much...some have said that's too
little...you know it's like...that's up for discussion at the time that
the Planning Commission and the County Council reviews all the
details of the bill...but yes I felt like I was acting within my
legislative duties to take this on like I said...I became the Chair of
the Planning Committee this year....this term...and this seemed
like something that someone with...a season legislator would need
to handle because all of the questions and...concerns that had
already been raised and continue to be raised regarding this...it
takes an office and my office has been you know very diligent in
trying to answer questions and...make sure that the bill is in the
presentable form is basically our role since it was given to us...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you Councilman Eoff...go ahead...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I'd like to just ask one question to kind of follow up
because...what I've gotten from my review of the material is that
you're ownership is in a different classification so it's not affected
directly by the bill...
33
Ms. Eoff: Yes which is why I answered his first email the way I did
hastily...I don't believe that what I own is being regulated by
this...it's not being grandfathered in and it's not a dwelling unit in
a residential area which is in my perception what we were tackling
with this bill...my condo is in a resort node...it's operated since 67
as a little mini hotel...I don't advertise it...I don't do anything...I
don't manage it...it's like people call the Islander for reservation
and then they assign them a room...so I look at that as a different
animal and so that's why I replied in a hastily manner...and I'm
sorry for that I know that caused some heartache all the way
around so...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: That's alright...I depend on my CPA for everything...I don't know
anything about taxes but...you know it might bare thinking about
Benjamin Franklin saying it's not enough to do the right
thing...you must be perceived to be doing the right thing...so
maybe it would be nice to be a little bit more clear and cautious...
Ms. Eoff: Exactly...I think I learned a lot from this...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: Thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...Mr. Goodenow or Mr. Robinson...
Mr. Goodenow: As far as conflict of interest in the Council rules...it does state that
you should refrain from deliberating on an action and shall be
excused from voting thereon...but it talks about a substantial and
substantial means an interest which is sufficient in magnitude to
influence ones action and that would be up to the Council...you
know as the bill goes thru the process...right...and let's say it's
amended or what not...you still would disclose that to the Council
right hey I have something of an interest I don't believe it's
substantial and would be up to them to decide that...is that correct?
Ms. Eoff: Yes.
Mr. Goodenow: So I...I feel comfortable with that...I don't know if our Corp.
Counsel wants us...you know you have to draft the informal
advisory opinion and is there any clarification you'd like from
us...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay...yes so in terms of the five hundred dollar fee that's...in
question...I think Mr. Guzman had raised it earlier right...he
34
basically said that because...the short-term vacation rentals that are
in the bill are subject to this fee but those are not...those that are
already in the resort zoning don't have such a fee...so by
application...there's like a...
Mr. Robinson: Unfair advantage...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Unfair advantage...that's what he's saying right and I just want to
make sure...so the board is saying then...that the fact that the bill
was originated from the administration and the details came from
the administration...and it didn't come from the Council
member...then it's okay...is that...help me here because I'm
trying...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah that's my initial thinking and that we don't know if it's
gonna still...it's gonna end up a five hundred dollar or not
right...at this point that's not anything that we can determine
because the bill is still moving yeah but the fact is as far as I'm
concerned the fact that it was created by the department...the fact
that precedence as was mentioned in another...testimony earlier
that this is common practice in other places as well...I think that
those two aspects...the common practice of different designations
having different applications...procedures...and then the second
part that it was a department...those are the primary reason for
myself...
Mr. Goodenow: Could I add to that...I have a question for Ms. Eoff...I mean...so
let's say this bill doesn't exist...or wasn't going to be
introduced...those people that could pay the five hundred in the
bill to get registered...would they...would they be legal...would
they be...
Ms. Eoff: Right now...residential zoning allows for like single use...single
family residential or multi...but we've experienced
this...proliferation of commercial use in residential zoning which
is not exactly illegal because it's not specified directly in the code
but for instance when bed & breakfast became popular years
back...we didn't have anything in the code about that but it
became a commercial use of a residential dwelling unit and so the
County began to regulate it so they required anyone operating a
bed &breakfast which mean you live on the property but you're
using your home or a side of your home for a commercial
35
overnight stays right...we have a bed &breakfast law now and that
must be registered with the Planning Department through a
Planning Commission hearing...you actually get permitted for
that...at that time the short-term use of single family homes on
stand-alone lots became a new popular thing so now have this new
use of residential dwellings where there's no owner on site...so
they're not exactly bed &breakfast...their something else but
they're not really a allowable use in residential areas but they've
been continuing to exist because paying GE and TAT is the only
really legal thing you could do and then if you do that
you're...you've been...I don't how to say it but...it's been hard for
the Planning Department to regulate it...
Mr. Goodenow: I see...
Ms. Eoff: So by defining it...and all the other Counties in the state have
defined the use...it's been a problem on all the other
islands...we're the last ones to try and invoke a program to get a
handle on it...there's some other ramifications of the registration
process that the state is asking us to...adopt a bill like this because
they need to identify for their proposes...collection of GE and
TAT where the...uses are accruing...so what we doing by
grandfathering in and there's a fee for that yearly re-
grandfathering's...it's called a certificate...non-conforming use
certificate...it's because we're now looking at you as a non-
conforming use in an area that's not really designed for it but we're
offering this non-conforming use certificate so you can continue to
operate...we really didn't want to upset this whole industry
because there's a lot of economy that's based on it now here on our
island...so this was the most fair way to do that...to approach
that...
Mr. Robinson: Madame Chair if I may...I think at this point we're arguing more
of the merits of 108 which is not really the charge of the ethics...
Ms. Eoff: Yes so I guess I was getting to the point of the fee for that...
Mr. Robinson: What I'd like us to do instead of arguing the merits of 108 because
that's you know but it's get to the question of..
Mr. Goodenow: The reason I asked that and I put it to you like this...I mean...so I
have a choice...I'm gonna pay the five hundred and be
36
acknowledge as legal entity...or I don't pay the five hundred
dollars...
Mr. Robinson: Then you'd be an illegal entity...
Ms. Eoff: You could continue to operate illegally...
Mr. Goodenow: And that doesn't affect you...you're already in the zoning...you
don't need to worry about that...so it would be something like
well...look you want to be subdivided...you pay five hundred
dollars to get subdivided...just because I own a piece of property
that's already been subdivided doesn't mean I get a benefit...!
mean the real point is you're not really receiving a benefit and I
accept that based on what you've said right....
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright so in that case...
Mr. Goodenow: Sony to me there's no substantial financial interest in that sense
looking at it from that perspective...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you Mr. Goodenow...you made your point...I don't think
anybody here is arguing with that....
Mr. Goodenow: Alright so we could also put in the informal advisory opinion that
we don't not see a substantial financial interest...
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright.
Mr. Goodenow: Thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau: Are you amending your motion or....
Mr. Goodenow: No.
Ms. Kahakalau: You're keeping the motion...can we because it's been quite a
while since it was stated...can we please hear the motion one more
time so we're all clear on what we're voting on...
Mr. Goodenow: I believe my motion was that we issue an informal advisory
opinion that making the determination that Council member Eoff
can introduce, discuss or there's no prohibition on Council member
Eoff of introducing, discussing or voting on proposed bill 108 as
currently drafted...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...
37
Mr. Goodenow: Is that correct?
Ms. Kahakalau: So we have a second and we've also had a discussion so I'm
calling for the question...all in favor say aye...any opposed...so
that motion is carried...thank you very much Ms. Eoff...
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved that Ms. Eoff is able to introduce, discuss or vote
on proposed bill 108 as currently drafted. Ms. Sumner-Mack seconded the motion. All
members voted aye.
6. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (12:04 a.m.)
a. Petition No. 2018-01:Request for an Informal Advisory Opinion from a
County Officer or employee, to determine whether he can start an
engineering firm to serve outer islands. (Closed hearing requested)
Ms. Kahakalau: We're moving on to unfinished business which is Petition No.
2018-02. This is a closed hearing requested...
Mr. Goodenow: So I move that we move into closed session...the petitioner is
here...
Ms. Kahakalau: Is the petitioner here...yes....
Mr. Goodenow: I move that we go into closed session...
Ms. Kahakalau: Second?
Ms. Sumner-Mack: Second.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to go into executive session. Ms. Sumner-Mack
seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
11:55 p.m. The Board took a brief recess.
12:25 p.m. to 12:43 p.m. The Board took agenda item 9 out of order.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to go into executive session. Mr. Robinson
seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
38
12:44 p.m. The Board moved into executive session.
1:31 p.m. The Board returned into regular session.
7. VOTING ON EXECUTIVE SESSION MATTERS
1:32 p.m. a. Review of the executive session minutes of February 13, 2018.
Mr. Robinson: Motion to approve the executive session minutes of February 13.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any...second....
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I'll second....
Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion in regards to the executive minutes...then I call for
the question...all in favor say aye....
Motion and Vote: Mr. Robinson moved to approve the executive session minutes. Sumner-
Mack seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
1:33 p.m. b. Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to
Section 2-91.1(d), Hawaii County Code, by County board and
commission members and designated County employees, where
personal matters will be reviewed.
Ms. Kahakalau: We also reviewed forty-eight confidential financial disclosure
forms and accepted....
Ms. Hirayama: Forty-five.
Ms. Kahakalau: Forty-five of the forty-eight with the three being returned for
review...
Ms. Hirayama: Yes.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you.
8. DISCUSSION REGARDING AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF PRACTICE
AND PROCEDURES OF THE BOARD OF ETHICS (1:34 a.m.)
Mr. Goodenow: Madame Chair...you'll find in the add-on communication...a letter
dated March 12, 2018...it's kind of my fault this matter wasn't on
the agenda...I informed the staff that it was coming but I did say it
wasn't a new agenda item but...technically right as a
communication it have to be agendized...1 didn't make that clear
but I think that was blessing in disguise because you know you get
your packets in the mail when right...not much time so I would
39
like...what I think we should do is...at each meeting I'll present
my letter for the next meeting...so you have a whole month to look
at it...and...that way we'll always be kind of...you know...and the
public will know what we're talking about at the next
meeting....so I did ask though Mr. Yoshimoto at the last meeting
to give us a presentation on Rule 91...I don't know if he...want to
do that now or we should wait until the next meeting...I defer to
Mr. Yoshimoto and the board...next meeting...
Mr. Yoshimoto: It's up to you guys....
Mr. Goodenow: So what I would suggest is if you look at my letter...we're looking
at definitions and just to make it easy...because sometimes...I
mean Rule 1 sometimes the items are found in different areas of
the different codes...I just went through Honolulu, Maui and Kauai
and stuck in...corresponding sections...so for ease of reading...it's
on this chart but you can just read through the codes yourself and
then...the big one I think...for Rule 1 is our definitions and some
of us who've been on the board...have experience you
know...what does...this word mean or it could be clearer...but you
know I ask you to read through the code and think of hypnotical
situations that should be maybe made clearer and so we work on
the definitions and then these other sections in Rulel and then the
other part would be Chapter 91...in those big binders is sent to all
of you...Chapter 91 is in there...in the back section...so if you
would take a look...just kind of read through Chapter 91 and then
our corp. counsel can give us...their input as to what we should
consider...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: That's the big white one yeah...
Mr. Goodenow: Yeah the big whit one...sorry...so you gotta read through Chapter
91...read through the code...think of anything needs definitions
and then we'll pick that up next time...and then we'll be on
schedule just be one month behind...
Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto....
Mr. Yoshimoto: So yeah on that topic...I'm just thinking about definitions
and...okay we'll save it for discussion for next time because I had
some thoughts on definitions and...
Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto you could independently send us communications
right...you're not part of the Sunshine Law....
Mr. Yoshimoto: Oh I am but then...yeah...
40
Mr. Goodenow: I mean you could be serial...like if I told you something then you
told another member...
Mr. Yoshimoto: That would be a serial communication...
Mr. Goodenow: But if you just...said hey this is what I think...and send it to all of
us...you could do that...without it being on the agenda I believe...
Mr. Yoshimoto: We can talk so long as it's not transmitting somebody else's
message serially right...but no I'm good...it's already in our code
where...the definition has already been...repealed in HRS...I'm
looking at 2-91.1...so you know and there's some inconsistencies
so but we can talk about that...
Mr. Goodenow: If you would...join us with your opinions too that would be
great...this is a group effort...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Alrighty....
Ms. Kahakalau: And we do...the rest of the group that is appreciate your efforts
and I think I like the idea of you know getting it and then having a
month to review it kind of...rather than with the packet because
there's all kinds of other things usually that we already have to
review and I do have to say that I appreciate that we do get the
packets in timely manner based on the posting...I've been on many
other boards where we got it if we were lucky you know on the
date that it was due and that makes it really hard...so do appreciate
Emily getting it out as soon as she possibly can which is you know
once it's been agendized etc...so thank you for that...but I also
like Mr. Goodenow's plan to go you know one month at a time and
so our homework is to go through this...these notes regarding Rule
l...just to clarify and also to review Chapter 91 which is in the
back of our white folder that we received...that's for all of us and
then the special homework from Mr. Yoshimoto which he knows
what it is....as a teacher I always wanted to repeat what the
homework is because they can't say they didn't know now...just
kidding...
Mr. Goodenow: He's on notice...So I ask that this March 12 letter be put on the
next agenda under 8...communication...thank you...
Mr. Yoshimoto: And then if you have the next one ready we can also...
Mr. Goodenow: I could put it...I'm not going to do that...at the meeting I'll pass it
out and that can go on the next agenda...
41
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay...
Ms. Kahakalau: So we're always like on a one month cycle kind of
thing...alright...
9. DISCUSSION REGARDING CHANGES TO THE BOARD OF ETHICS
MONTHLY MEETING SCHEDULE. (12:25 p.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Go ahead Vice-Chair Goodenow...can we have your...we're not
doing public testimony at this point anymore but you can...for next
time...
Mr. Robinson: You're welcome to stay though...
Ms. Kahakalau; You're more than welcomed to stay...the procedure only at the
very beginning we do public testimony so you can prepare one for
next time if you would like to...thank you...Vice-Chair Goodenow
you have requested to take something out of order.
Mr. Goodenow: Madame Chair I...would request that we take item 9 out of order
as my reason is that a gentleman from Common Cause...I mean
the League of Women Voters...hand a concern about that and he
very patiently has been waiting and...before going back into
executive session to review all these documents...I'd ask that we
bring it to the floor now...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay this is the meeting schedule....
Mr. Robinson: Number 9 or number 8....
Mr. Goodenow: Yes number 9...
Ms. Kahakalau: Do I hear a second....
Mr. Robinson: I'll second that....
Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion...all in favor say aye...alright so we're moving
number 9 which is the discussion regarding changes to the Board
of Ethics monthly meeting schedule and maybe....yes...
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to take agenda item 9 out of order. Mr. Robinson
seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
Mr. Goodenow: Thank you Madame Chair....Sir I'm sorry I forgot your name but
could you come forward...I'm asking...he relayed something to
me that I thought the board should be aware of...
42
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you....sir if you could please state your name and then its
agenda item 9...
Mr. Collman: My name Armon Collman...I'm a representative of the League of
Women Voters...a newly elected board of director...and I've been
trying to follow the commission and going along with...item 9
here with the scheduling...discussion...one of the things I've been
involved with the league and we have a basically a...ethics
committee oversight committee of which I'm on...and one of the
things that I've been having a problem with for probably a six
months is trying to keep up with the bouncing ball of when you
guys have meetings...I've approached the Mayor's office...and
that you are underneath the Mayor's office but one of the things
that I have notice because I think I and unfortunately very few
other people in the public follow commissions or the Council...one
of the things that I use is a very strong tool to find meetings is the
Council's monthly schedule which also has other commissions on
there...and I've asked the Mayor's office to consider using that
Council agenda or Council calendar...on the website that's
available to the general public...as also a landing spot for your
meetings...it would just be so much easier for the general public to
follow...
Ms. Kahakalau: Well that sounds perfectly reasonable to me actually...and we do
have to tell you that the changes we make are not just because we
want to keep the public in the dark when we're meeting...it's been
so difficult with everybody being so busy that we have to you
know find dates when people can actually make it and also there's
meeting rooms available...but I certainly would have no objection
for it to be on the calendar...right now I have to say it's almost
been a month by month basis in terms of how we're you
know...when we actually meeting and so...the only thing would
be is the timing of it you know do we...but as soon as we know
which would always be at the end of this meeting...almost
always...once in a while something happens in between and
somebody won't be able to make it and we don't a quorum...now
with five people on the board...it's much easier when we had three
people it was very difficult...so I have no problem as far as going
on the calendar...that's just my personal opinion...if anybody else
wants to speak to it...
Mr. Goodenow: I would add...we could I suppose I mean...part of the big problem
right I am the second Wednesday I'm usually in Honolulu for
Campaign Spending so...we always have to change it...I mean we
could though do a bunch of meetings in advance...is that right I
mean...I know we'd have to give Emily some time to make sure
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the room is available but...I mean we could do it for the rest of the
year say and say these are going to be our dates...and then my only
question is do you know about the Mayor's website...the calendar
that he's...being referred to...
Ms. Hirayama: There's a calendar on the County website...but I've been trying to
put dates in there that we might have our meetings and the only
reason why sometimes it's difficult is...that...if we have video
conferencing this is the only room that's available for that...so we
never know from month to month whether we're...we're gonna
need it...so I've go ahead and tried to reserve you know here
because this would be the best place to have all our meetings...but
as far as...I put the dates on the calendar but we've been trying to
put the agenda attached to the dates...but it's not allowing us to put
it on the calendar...I'm you still have access on the County
website when you go into Boards and Commissions...the agenda is
always going to be there...the day that...cause we
have...seven...six to seven days before the meeting to post it
which we do...but as far as putting the agenda on the calendar on
that date we're having issues doing that...
Mr. Collman: I understand there's issues and I've...applaud the Mayor's office
because they have put me on an email schedule so it would be
easier for me but I again I'm looking at the general public as well
as being able to easily access you meetings so...
Ms. Kahakalau: Well as far as planning ahead...you know I don't have a problem
with it but I do know from personally I have a very fluid...flexible
upside down all around kind of a schedule where I can say you
know I can make it now but it wouldn't be anything that I could
say a hundred percent because the way my work works but other
than that...I'm definitely open to at least doing you know for the
rest of the year let's say...which we used to have a tentative...at
least a tentative schedule that would help everybody and if it
should change you know then as soon as possible notifying...the
calendar you know of any changes kind of...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I'm I misunderstanding...I didn't think you were asking to have all
the dates for the rest of the year...on the Mayor's calendar but
just...maybe you know would it have to be...how often do they
post on the Mayor's calendar...how often would you be able to
add to it...
Ms. Hirayama: I can change whenever...just...it's not a problem to change on the
calendar but it would be a problem securing a location...because
there's other departments in the County that may want to use this
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particular room or different locations because I also do training for
our office and we have to reserve Aupuni Center...there's only so
many locations that we can reserve but...because of the fact that
we never know if we need video conferencing...it's always been
kind better choice for us to hold it in this chambers but we can't
hold it in chambers on the same day that Council is having because
they also do all the you know outside locations too...
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay...any other comments...
Mr. Goodenow: I would just ask maybe Madame Chair...work with our secretary
and...try to facilitate...I mean...
Ms. Kahakalau: We've kind of had a regular schedule right that worked around
your calendar...so instead of the...what was it in the rules...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Second Wednesday....so instead of the second Wednesday...we
had a pretty for a while for sure a pretty scheduled...Tuesday
right...second Tuesday...instead so that was kind of the norm until
now and then it was just a matter of people not being able to make
it or not having quorum and things like that...so we would
basically keep it as of right now...unless there's any
changes...we're looking at the second Tuesday of each month...
Mr. Goodenow: Would it be possible though...my concern is well we said that but
Emily...until we suspend the rules and actually vote on a date...we
are supposed to meeting on the second Wednesday...so I could see
maybe Emily...wondering well can I just put on the calendar now
all these Tuesdays...it's not...
Ms. Kahakalau: Could we do a blanket...you know instead of each month we're
gonna say for the rest of the year...the blanket...
Mr. Goodenow: Maybe for the next meeting...not this meeting but the next
meeting...you try and email all of us and we come up with dates
for the rest of the year....you'd have to check with Council...
Ms. Hirayama: Yeah...because I do have a copy of Council scheduling...the
Council puts up the schedule like a year in advance...so the dates
I've been picking is dates that are...trying to keep within that
second week...but it might be either Tuesday or it couldn't be a
Tuesday because if it falls on the day that Council has committee
and council meetings on Tuesdays and Wednesdays which what
they do...then I have to change it either a Monday which why we
have it on Monday or Thursday...so I've gotten tentative dates
which I did put on the calendar...the County calendar...but it still
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needs to be...we still need to you know talk it over during the
meetings in section 9...
Mr. Collman: Who's responsible for that calendar?
Ms. Hirayama: The maintenance of it...it's...each department has code to go in
and put whatever belongs in their departments...so I
have...because it's under Corporation Counsel...then I have access
to put...anybody in our office has access to put stuff on there...the
calendar...
Mr. Collman: So relatively easy to change then...
Ms. Hirayama: Yeah it's not that difficult to change the date...it's just a matter of
if we do decide to change the date...we need to figure out if a
location is available on that date....
Mr. Collman: Thank you...I think that's...I mean it's definitely an internal issues
that you'll have to work out...on a personal note...I am hearing
impaired and the reason for these microphones...is so that others
can be heard and from this vantage point...it's not a problem...but
as I sit out here...if you're speaking from back here...then the
volume goes way down and it's hard for everyone to hear even if
the cameraman talking to him...so I'd implore you to...use
microphone techniques and be up to them please....thank you....
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you we appreciate that...thank you very much and we will
work on the schedule and make sure that you know as far out as
possible that our meetings are stated in the County calendar...
Mr. Collman: One last comment I have to say...I'm...pretty much appalled at
the...lack of interest in government on this island and...sometimes
in know you may only see one person and it may be me or
someone else out here and I just I find that hard to believe...there's
so much that needs to be done in this County and think it's body's
like this that our future and the public should be much more
interested...
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you...
Mr. Goodenow: In regards to agenda item 9...do we have a date....I move that we
suspend the rules...I don't know if we have a date yet...
Mr. Robinson: Always breaking the rules...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I have April 12 on my calendar...
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Mr. Goodenow: Do we have to do it through for May...
Ms. Hirayama: If you would like to...I have the dates...
Mr. Goodenow: We already suspended the rules and set April 12 right...
Ms. Kahakalau: And I just wanted to state that I won't be able to make that
one...just FYI...
Mr. Goodenow: Maybe we should change it....
Ms. Hirayama: Shay won't be able to make that meeting either...
Mr. Yoshimoto: We have three...
Ms. Kahakalau: I can make the Monday but I can't make any other day....
Mr. Goodenow: Monday the 9`h...
Ms. Kahakalau: I can make Monday if the room is available...because you said
Tuesday/Wednesday the room is usually...
Mr. Robinson: I thought we had April....
Ms. Hirayama: Yeah April 12 is what we decided last time...
Ms. Kahakalau: That's fine I'm just saying I won't be able to make it...I think I
mentioned it before....
Ms. Sumner-Mack: Are we changing that....
Mr. Robinson: No...April 12 stays...
Mr. Yoshimoto: We're keeping the three members....you guys okay with that...
Ms. Kahakalau: We did it almost for a whole year...I'm sure we can...it will be
fine...okay do we want to look at April...
Mr. Robinson: You mean May....
Ms. Kahakalau: May I'm sorry yes....
Mr. Robinson: May 15...
Ms. Hirayama: I have May 7`h...
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Mr. Robinson: That works for me...
Ms. Kahakalau: Yes that works...
Mr. Goodenow: What day of the week...
Ms. Kahakalau: Monday...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: May 7th...
Mr. Goodenow: That works for me...Alright I move that we suspend the rules and
set our May meeting for Monday the 7th
Mr. Robinson: Second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any further discussion...all in favor say aye...alright...
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to suspend the rules. Mr. Robinson seconded the
motion. All members voted aye.
Ms. Kahakalau: Do you want to go one more...
Mr. Goodenow: I don't know if you're ready....
Mr. Robinson: Not yet...
Ms. Hirayama: Yes if you want to...
Ms. Kahakalau: If not...that's fine....
Mr. Yoshimoto: We can go one more...you want to go one more...no...up to you
guys...
Mr. Robinson: June...
Ms. Hirayama: Yeah we have June...
Mr. Robinson: Yeah...
Ms. Hirayama: June 12th is a Tuesday...
Mr. Robinson: June 12th is a Tuesday...works for me...I make a motion that we
establish June 12th as a...suspend the rules and do June 12th...
Ms. Sumner-Mack: I'll second.
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Mr. Robinson: Okay
Ms. Kahakalau: Any further discussion...alright all in favor say aye...
Motion and Vote: Mr. Robinson moved suspend the rules and accept June 12th as the next
meeting date. Ms. Sumner-Mack seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
10. ANNOUNCEMENTS (12:42 p.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright...are there any other announcements or...so we have our
meeting scheduled for the 12`h...that remains on the 12th at 10
a.m we do need everybody to be there...the three people that
said they were going to be here and if there is any last minute just
to let Emily know as soon as possible...we'd appreciate that...any
other announcements...
11. ADJOURNMENT (1:40 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: This meeting of the Board of Ethics for the County of Hawai`i is
adjourned at 1:40 let's say...
Respectfully submitted:
tzik OV--tivi(Y\OL
Emily Hir aria, Secretiy
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