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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-05-03 Hearing Transcript - Cellco Partnership dba Verizon Wireless USE 17-074WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT MAY 3, 2018 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of CELLCO PARTNERSHIP DBA VERIZON WIRELESS (USE 17-000074) was called to order at 9:34 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman Joseph Clarkson presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Gilbert Aguinaldo, Joe Clarkson, Donald Ikeda, Thomas Raffipiy, John Replogle. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Donn Dela Cruz. ALSO PRESENT: Michael Yee (Planning Director), Malia Ho Hall (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Jeff Darrow (Planning Program Manager), Maija Jackson (Planner), Christian Kay (Planner), Shancy Watanabe (Planner), Melissa Dacayanan (Planning Commission Support Technician), and Sarah Hata-Finley (Commission Secretary). And 53 members from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: CELLCO PARTNERSHIP DBA VERIZON WIRELESS (USE 17-000074) Continued hearing on an application for a Use Permit to allow the construction of a new, non - manned telecommunication facility, consisting of a 155 -foot tall steel monopine tower, retaining wall, 6 -foot tall fencing and related facilities within a 1,050 -square foot lease area on a 33,106 - square foot parcel, situated in the County's Agricultural 1 -acre (A -la) zoning district. The subject property is located at 15-1463 21st Avenue, approximately 1,700 feet north of the Kaloli Drive — 21st Avenue intersection, Hawaiian Paradise Park, Kea`au, Puna, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 1-5-038:013. CLARKSON: The second item on the agenda is a continuation of a hearing for the Applicant which is the Cellco Partnership doing business as Verizon Wireless. This is an application for a Use Permit to allow the construction of new, non -manned telecommunication facility, 155 -foot tall steel monopine tower and other pertinent equipment, and Shancy Watanabe will again be making the presentation. WATANABE: Thank you, and good morning. The Applicant is Verizon Wireless. This is for a Use Permit application. This is the location map for the subject property. The subject property is shaded in red and located about just under 1,700 feet from the intersection of Kaloli Drive and 21st Avenue in the Puna District. The Applicant is requesting a Use Permit to construct a new 155 -foot tall steel monopine telecommunication tower and related facilities within a secured 1,050 -square foot portion of a 10V1111.11 1.1 33,106 -square foot parcel situated in the County's Agricultural district. The monopine will be painted to resemble a real pine tree. The facility will be designed to accommodate the co - location of at least two other wireless service providers and will comply with all Federal, State, and County rules and regulations. The objective of this project is to allow Verizon to expand wireless telephone and E-911 services to the majority of the Hawaiian Paradise Park Subdivision by adding this fifth cell site to provide coverage. The Applicant provided this proposed site plan. The lease area is shaded in yellow. The subject property is outlined in red. The Applicant provided this elevation plan. The height of the tower, again, is 155 feet. This is the zoning map. The subject property is in the Agricultural zoning district. The surrounding properties are also zoned the same, A- Ia. This is the State Land Use boundary map. The subject property is in the State Land Use Agricultural district. This is the General Plan Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide Map. The subject property is designated as Rural as are the surrounding properties. This is an aerial photograph of the subject property outlined in red. The proposed lease area is shaded, or outlined in yellow. This is a site photograph of the subject property standing on 21st Avenue in HPP looking directly at the subject property. The photo on the left was taken standing on 21st Avenue looking northwest, and the photo on the right was taken standing on 21st looking southeast. The Planning Director recommends approval with conditions. For this Use Permit, this concludes my presentation, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the Planning Commission may have. IKEDA: Can I ask a question? The question I want to ask is the owner of the property, do they live there? On the property? WATANABE: Right now, there's no structures on this property. IKEDA: Okay, that's what I thought when I looked at. CLARKSON: Any further questions for staff on this? If not, would the Applicant or their representative please come forward? WATANABE: Chair, before you ask your questions, I just wanted to also bring to attention that there were additional testimony that was received both from surrounding property owners and responses from the Applicant. CLARKSON: Everybody got that? Okay. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? MARTIN: I do. CLARKSON: Please introduce yourself, where you're from, and proceed, please. MARTIN: My name is Danette Martin. I live in Kailua-Kona, and I work as a consultant to Verizon Wireless. EXHIBIT B 2 CLARKSON: Go ahead. Please speak into the microphone. MARTIN: Pardon? CLARKSON: Please speak into the microphone. MARTIN: Oh, okay. CLARKSON: If you have nothing to MARTIN: No, I was just giving them an opportunity to read that. Let me, at the last hearing Councilman O'Hara testified, and I also spoke with her after the meeting and she had asked that I look into the possibility of relocating the tower to an area the County was in the process of acquiring as a park. And, I did run that by the radio frequency engineer, and unfortunately, it will not work so it would leave some people without coverage in Hawaiian Paradise Park. She also had a concern and wanted maybe a third party cell tower company to build the tower. While Verizon could do that, I didn't see the need for it. As far as I know, Verizon has always accommodated any carrier that wanted to come on their towers. So, we have no problem with that condition. I wanted to let you know you'll hear from the Young's here today. I did meet with them after the last hearing, and I provided some safety facts to them from the FCC and the American Cancer Society, and also a study that Harvard did explaining why, why they shouldn't be afraid of electromagnetic emissions on the tower. You received a petition that was gathered through the neighborhood and at the top it says, "Stop dangerous cell tower," and a lot of facts that they submitted to their neighbors were incorrect. And, I think that when you go to your neighbors and you tell them it's unsafe and I want you to sign this petition, if it was me and it was my neighbor, I probably would have signed it. Verizon would also like the opportunity, and they're asking that we continue this hearing again after, after testimony is received because they are doing their own petition where they're reaching out to their subscribers and asking them if they would like to have cell coverage and if they agree that this location is appropriate. I'd also like to bring the radio frequency engineer and explain to you folks why it's safe. I have the study here, and I would be happy to provide you with copies that Harvard did and it kind of explainsI like it because it's simple, the FCC information, and I'll give that to you as well, and then we also have the American Cancer Society has also explained that there's no credible evidence that cellphone towers cause cancer. So, I hope that this helps ease their mind about it, and I guess that's all I have to say for now. CLARKSON: Okay, Commissioners, any questions for the Applicant, Applicant's representative? EXHIBIT B 3 AGUINALDO: I do. Yes, I do have a question as far as—there was a recommendation from Mrs. O'Hara as far as elevation from what the proposed down Kaloli on the right, there is a designated location for a park. MARTIN: Yes. AGUINALDO: Okay. A park. MARTIN: Right. AGUINALDO: Now, why was, why, you mentioned about frequency. MARTIN: Placement AGUINALDO: Do you have, wait, do you have an elevation difference between 21st and that street? Shouldn't it be a higher elevation would be better frequency or not necessarily? MARTIN: No. AGUINALDO: Okay. MARTIN: It doesn't work that way and I can, if you grant this continuance, I'll have the radio frequency person explain it. But, it's actually the placement—the tower height, you know, elevation can be adjusted with the tower height and that's another thing I wanted to offer up if it helps. Verizon Wireless would be willing to reduce the tower height to 125, or maybe more if that helps. So, it's really the placement. So, you know, you moved it from, if we moved it from 21st Street and then moved it down to 25th Street, so on the other side that's how many blocks would be missing coverage. And, you know, it's such a small area that they would probably be missing coverage forever because it costs about a million dollars for the carrier to build and develop these cell sites, and it's just cost prohibitive to do something to cover those that would be left out. AGUINALDO: The reason why I ask that question is that like Leilani, Nanawale, they have `em in their park. MARTIN: Yes. AGUINALDO: You know, so basically it boils down to if you're a next door neighbor MARTIN: Yes AGUINALDO: having a satellite, you know, or cell tower next to you, how would you feel, yeah? So, kind of like the appropriated location of these cell towers to me, it's like if you go many different places, like again, I live in Puna, you see `em in Leilani at their park. You go to Nanawale, it's at their park. EXHIBIT B 4 MARTIN: That's right. And, that's why I went to the Homeowner's Association back in 2014. I went to them, and I asked for their help. That's where I started. I went to the neighbors, asked for their help. And, so I took this to the Homeowner's Association. At that time, they said I couldn't go in the park, and so Verizon designed these cell sites around where we could go. And unfortunately, this subdivision is so huge that it has to go where the people are. And, even if you did move it to the park, the park is surrounded by homes. So what, what guarantee do you have that those people wouldn't object to it? So, you just might be moving from one area to another area. CLARKSON: Well I have a question. How far away is this new park that was discussed as an alternative site from the existing proposed site? MARTIN: It's four blocks and then it's west of Kaloli. So, it's on the other side of Kaloli, four blocks west. CLARKSON: And, how big is the proposed new site compared to one of these, these are acre lots in Hawaiian Paradise Park. How big is the, the new area? MARTIN: I don't know. I CLARKSON: The reason I'm, what I'm getting to is if it's four or five blocks away, but it's in a much bigger area so that houses would be considerably farther from the tower than right next door as in this existing case, couldn't you raise the height of the tower a few feet and still get the coverage— MARTIN: No. I asked that CLARKSON: —that you get at a hundred and twenty five feet? MARTIN: I asked that of our radio frequency engineer. No, it has to do with the actual placement of it, the location of it, not the height. And, so if we were forced to move it to the park, so we would probably have about four blocks going the other way, going east, that would go without coverage. So, we wouldn't be able to cover the whole park. CLARKSON: You mean the whole Hawaiian Paradise Park, the whole area. MARTIN: Right. Cause we've already got approval for four others, and none of those are in parks. You know, like I said, we started with the Homeowner's Association. This is the fifth one. This would be the last tower that we would be requesting in Hawaiian Paradise Park, and we couldn't adjust another cell site in order to make up the difference, if that makes sense. SUZUKI (from audience): By the way, the HALL: —Wait, wait. Sorry. EXHIBIT B 5 CLARKSON: Wait, ma'am, there will be plenty of time to testify. Have you signed up to testify? SUZUKI (from audience): No, do I have to? CLARKSON: If you would like to, please sign up at the front desk. Any other questions from the Commission? RAFFIPIY: I have a question, Mr. Chairman. Who are the other cell carriers that will be on that tower? MARTIN: You know, the carriers can't apply for co -location until the tower is built, but the carriers that are on island right now are just the major four. There's AT&T, Verizon, T -Mobile, and Sprint. CLARKSON: And are these carriers also on the other four towers in Hawaiian Paradise Park? MARTIN: No. CLARKSON: So you—did they build their own towers? MARTIN: No, just like Verizon, we always have a preference to co -locate on a tower. It's less expensive. It just makes more sense. So, if you can find a tower to go on, you're gonna immediately go to that tower. You're not gonna build your own. So, we co -locate on each other's towers all the time as is the policy of the County Planning Department to do so. CLARKSON: But, maybe I'm confused, you're saying nobody has co -located on any of these other four towers? MARTIN: I don't have that information. CLARKSON: Oh. MARTIN: But as far as I know, they're all fairly new, and I don't believe that there has been any co -location applications, but I can find out for you. CLARKSON: Okay, I have one other question. Do you have any liability insurance that covers these towers for damage? MARTIN: Absolutely. Yeah, Verizon's a huge company, of course, they have a lot of insurance. CLARKSON: Well, my question would be why? The representation in the previous testimony was that these towers never fall down or cause damage to neighbors. Why would you bother to have liability insurance? EXHIBIT B 6 MARTIN: Well, in case somebody comes on the property and trips. Of course Verizon's the deep pocket, they're gonna, people are gonna go to them first so, you know, it's just standard business. All businesses have to have liability insurance. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. If there are no further questions REPLOGLE: I have sort of a question. So, what you're saying is technologically the tower cannot be moved if you wish to have cell coverage for the entire subdivision. MARTIN: That's what I said, yes. REPLOGLE: And it comes down to do you want to talk on the phone or look at a cell tower. MARTIN: Right. REPLOGLE: Is the choice the community has. MARTIN: Right, and I also brought some wireless trend facts here that was provided to me by Verizon Wireless and RootMetrics did a study, and they found that more than 75 percent of prospective homebuyers want strong cell coverage. So, if that's the case, you know, people are not going— REPLOGLE: No I, I get it. I'm just— MARTIN: —Yeah, right— REPLOGLE: trying to be clear on how would you say, the social choice here. MARTIN: Right. Yes, right. And so, that's why I said if, while we do this text campaign to find out if our subscribers really want service here. I mean if they don't want this tower here, and they don't want the service, and then Verizon can walk away from it. REPLOGLE: Okay. Thank you. RAFFIPIY: Mr. Chairman, I had another question. The Association, did they take any position on this? MARTIN: No, I did a presentation there, and I received a letter and unfortunately I don't have a copy of it, but I can provide that to you. A letter from the Association explaining that I did a presentation there and that there was no comments from their members that attended. And, I would say there was maybe 20, 20 people from the Association that attended. RAFFIPIY: Yeah, I think I would be interested to see a, the position of the association, the board. MARTIN: Okay. I'll can get that letter for you. EXHIBIT B 7 RAFFIPIY: Yeah, what they decide. CLARKSON: All right, thank you. If there are no further questions, please be seated, and at this time, I'm going to ask people who have signed up to testify to come up four at a time. The first four, Lauri and Courtney C. DEAGUTAR (from audience): DeAguiar. CLARKSON: Thank you. Lyan Youngs and Patty Egan. Okay, I'm going to swear you all in simultaneously here. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? TESTIFIERS: Yes. CLARKSON: The record shows they all said yes. We'll start on this end, and please introduce yourself, speak into the microphone, and proceed with your testimony. We're limiting testimony to three minutes, so if you see a card raised up, please understand what that's for. L. DEAGUTAR: My name is Lauri DeAguiar. I live at 15-1254 Railroad Avenue, and my home is the home in the picture. So it's, I said 70 feet in my report and it's less than that, just explaining. C. DEAGUTAR: My name is Courtney DeAguiar. I live at 15-1254 Railroad, and yeah, like she said, the aerial view house, that house to the right is mine. L. YOUNGS: My name is Lyan Youngs. We reside at 15-1244 Railroad Avenue. So, if you look at the location plan, we're Lot 104 [sic -414], which is adjacent to the cell tower as well. M. YOUNGS: My name is Mark Youngs. I reside at 15-1244I'm at that same residence, Lot 1014 [sic -414]. CLARKSON: I may have misundermiscommunicated here. You can immediately proceed after you introduce yourself to make your testimony. L. DEAGUTAR: Since we only have three minutes, my main concern is, which we can't use the health issue, just a close proximity of the tower, if it fell, it would crush my whole house. I mean, not to mention the safety part. I love to wake up in the morning, go on my front porch, drink my cup of coffee, and not wanna hear a hum or anything from this huge tower which would be really ugly. Our property values will go down. Who'd want that? I don't think she'd like that tower that close to her home. And, I think it's just BS about we need the cell coverage. We all can get WIFI in our homes. I don't understand. And, most of our neighbors, a lot of our neighbors we have squatters who fell on bad times. We have low income. They don't even have cell phones some of `em. So, I don't know. I don't see the high need. Dan Evans, the owner of the property told me that he fell on hard times, that's why he's thinking of putting the tower there. And, we were first told that it would only be 20 to 30 feet. I can't make this up, and I 10V1111.11 1.1 didn't have knowledge on the seriousness of this thing until I went and researched on my own. And, who'd want that? C. DEAGUTAR: Yeah, and in addition to my wife's comments, it's a 155 behemoth of a thing less than 70 feet away from my house. It's thisI'm opposed to it. M. YOUNGS: I'll be fast. From the beginning, as far as a, being a professional communication, letting us know on this whole cell form, you know, cell tower from Verizon, Ms. Martin, we have not received any communication. I had to go forward and find this information. We asked for a—there was a continuance. I wouldn't even known if Ms. Watanabe never, you know, emailed us or let us know. They didn't know ahead of time and so as far as information, I feel like this is just being pushed to just happen fast. And, if you look at the location, there's three houses right around this thing. And, the park that they're proposing on 25th? It's huge. It's like three different lots. C. DEAGUTAR: No, it's 20 acres L. DEAGUTAR: Twenty acres. M. YOUNGS: Twenty acres. But, that's what I don't understand. If you look in the picture, you see a tower with three adjacent houses right next to each other. That location doesn't make any sense and as far as property value, we know already we will lose. And, we cannot bring up the health issue. We cannot bring up any safety issues because it's already preapproved from Harvard or whoever else, but we don't know how far, those studies, ago, and all the research that I found was outdated. You know, all this research is done from before. All the new research that we found, you know, there's hard—yeah, very few to none. That's all I have to say. L. YOUNGS: Yeah, my name is Lyan, and just to elaborate on my husband, what he was saying, you know, when we researched, we couldn't find anything. There's really little government -funded research to tell us the safety risk and the health hazards. I mean, there is some stories from victims who live next to cell towers who have symptoms like headaches, nausea, sensitivity to electronic devices, and we're just worried because we have two little children who are three and two years old. Our neighbors also have kids. Like they're super susceptible to like stuff like this so, we oppose the tower being built, and we hope that you folks can take into consideration how we feel as neighbors. Thank you. CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions from the Commission for these testifiers? If not, thank you, you may be seated. So, the next four testifiers is Patty Egan, Barry Henry, Hope Henry, and Utae Suzuki. Please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? TESTIFIERS: I do. CLARKSON: They all said yes. Please individually, starting with you, Patty. Introduce yourself, where you live, and then proceed with your testimony. EXHIBIT B 9 EGAN: My name is Patty Egan, and I am currently in the process of starting construction on a house on 13th, just off of Kaloli. HALL: Oh, no, go ahead please, proceed with your testimony. CLARKSON: Go ahead with your testimony. EGAN: Oh, okay. I just have a few things to add about the perception about the health hazards of radio waves from a cell tower. I, too, am very concerned with health and exposure to anything that may hurt me, my granddaughter, my friend's family. And, according to American Cancer Society and several other scientific studies that I read, radio waves are not DNA disruptive. Actually, you can get more DNA disruption sometimes from your actual cell phone or routers in your house, and public exposure to radio waves from cell tower antennas is slight for several reasons. The power levels are relatively low, the antennas are mounted high above the ground, and the signals are transmitted intermittently rather than constantly. And, at ground level the emission of these radio waves is a thousand times lower than the limits for safe transmission set by the Federal Government. So, I think, you know, the concerns about high frequency radio waves is substantial but these are not the same thing. I also feel that having a cell tower there that would enable everybody to have access to connectivity is important for emergency such as we're looking at right now. If everybody has good connectivity, they can get that, plus the police and fire could use it. You got it, I'm done. Thank you. HALL: Oh no, you don't, you have a minute. H. HENRY: Hello, I'm Hope Henry, and I live at 15-1389 13th Avenue in HPP. I want to thank you for taking the time to hear my testimony today. I've been working on this cell phone tower for almost four years. I live in an area where I have to go outside to make a phone call and sometimes the calls drop three or four times in one conversation. I do not have a landline because as a retired person, I have a budget and I have to decide what I can afford. I can't afford a landline and a cell phone. And, so I decided to have a cell phone because it also, you know, if I'm away from my house, there's no payphones anymore. You know, I can't call and it's for safety reasons, it's better to have a cell phone with me. It worries me to think what would happen if someone tried to break in at night, and in HPP just recently we had two break-ins, one while people were sleeping upstairs. I don't know what I would do. I guess I would text a friend and hope they heard my text. I can't text the police department to say help me, 911. I'd have to go outside and say hi to the person breaking in to get help, and that's a horrible feeling to have. Or if I was ill, having a heart attack in my bed, you know, it's just not okay. When we had that missile alert, we closed all our doors, it was probably futile but, you know, what are you going to do when you have that kind of crisis? We closed all our doors. I couldn't call my kids. I had to text them. I want you to think about that if you think that you only have maybe only a little while to live and you can't call your children to say goodbye, you have to text them. EXHIBIT B 10 I also, we already have cell phone towers in our subdivision. This is not a new technology that people have been exposed haven't been exposed to. Our subdivision is growing and all of the citizens have the right to services. I understand that people wanna keep it country, but for me as a matter of safety, I need to be—have a cell phone. I have heard that people are proposing to put it in the new park. That would mean I would be out of coverage. I'm that person. I've been told that it would take another five years also, and if they were able to do it, and that's not fair to the people who have already been waiting, some for 15 years for service. Please assist us in making sure we can have the safety and security of cell phone service. Thank you. B. HENRY: Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Barry Henry, and I've been a resident in HPP for four years. During that time, I've become aware that there's a critical need for reliable and area -wide cell reception. I live at the end of 13th Avenue on the Hilo side of HPP, and I'm unable to get a decent signal on my cell phone unless I move out to my front porch. As residents in Lower Puna, the potential dangers that we face each year regarding weather and geologic events are unique, really I think, in the world. The June 27th flow of 2014 and the current seismic activity in Lower Puna point to the ever-present risk of volcanic activity. Additionally, the frequency of hurricanes and tropical storms threaten to disrupt our access to food, water, and medical services. One of the first things to suffer in these events is our ability to communicate with emergency personnel and family and friends. Additionally, I ask that you not be unduly influenced, by the radio waves cause cancer hype. I can understand that some people may not rely on the scientific method to justify their opinions, but there is no evidence that radio frequency waves cause any type of illness. A single study in the 70's that came to that conclusion has long since been debunked as junk science using false data and a small sample. There have been no peer reviewed studies that suggest any links to cancer. For these reasons, I request that you approve the cell permit. Thank you. HALL: It's on. CLARKSON: It's on. SUZUKI: Hi. Aloha everyone. My name is Utae Suzuki. I wrote one of testimonies brought to you prior to this meeting. I hope you all have read those with open heart and mind especially Lauri DeAguiar's circumstances are eye opening, okay, because County Planning Department accepted Cellco application based on Mrs. Danette Martin's statement, residents agreed for cell tower which was false. Okay, she came with a 20 -foot in the beginning. Now, I'd like to share my insight regarding this monstrous 155 cell tower in a few sentences. I live across, diagonally across from lot, Mr. Evan's lot. First one is unregulated federal telecommunication policy overshadows our basic civil rights to live in a safe environment. That's no brainer. I believe Cellco rep, Ms. Danette Martin, has provided false statement to County and lost her credibility to interact residents in a11360 degree surroundings at this particular lot. With honesty and most of all respectfully with her agenda. She approached the DeAguiar family and later target them singularly. I never heard anything about it until just this year. What goes up will come down one day, and there is no evacuation plan from potential collapse or fire of cell tower since we live on island with frequent earthquake. EXHIBIT B 11 Finally, it makes more sense to find more open and least populated area to build this huge tower. But again, first, Cellco must make sure from very beginning your proposal is clear and specify size of tower, the final size of tower, for everyone to see and fully understand by inhabitants. Holding neighborhood meeting will be very appropriate so they have a chance to decide for themselves. Please remind ourselves goodwill happens from bottom up, not top down. And, one thing I want, I'd like to make sure that the picture of a planned park, I think it's already starting this year. They are back-to-back one -acre lot, back-to-back twenty acres, I believe. So, it's pretty big. And, then across the street from 25 to 24 is Shipman is there proposal for, I believe it's a shopping center. So, that's big area. Okay, thank you. CLARKSON: Thank you. Any questions for these testifiers from the rest SUZUKI: Oh, and I gathered 47 signature just around the HALL: Please speak into the microphone. SUZUKI: just around the neighborhood. That's 47 signature. These are just along Railroad and the 21 sf and the Melia, which is 20th. CLARKSON: Thank you, we've all got a copy of your petition. Thank you. Any questions? I—you may be seated, please. We have two more people who have signed up to testify. Eileen O'Hara and Claudia Rohr. Would you please come forward? Please raise your right hands. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? O'HARA: I do. ROHR: I do. CLARKSON: Thank you. Ms. O'Hara please proceed. Introduce yourself, and proceed with your testimony. O'HARA: Thank you, Chairman. I am Eileen O'Hara. I represent District 4 on the Hawaii County Council. I am not a resident of HPP, but I am a resident of another rather large subdivision in Puna, Hawaiian Shores, Hawaiian Beaches, and I'm well aware how the larger subdivisions have worked through their homeowner associations to provide collectively held lands to place cell towers. This has been a very effective approach. We did it in Hawaiian Shores, we did it—they did it in Nanawale, and they did it in Leilani. And, that alleviates some of the land use conflicts that get started when you have small -lot subdivisions and a single lot attempts to move forward to place a large 155 -foot cell tower. I appreciate that Verizon Wireless is, has made some effort here to find alternative locations, but I don't think their search has been exhaustive enough. I also am well aware that people in the lower part of HPP need better coverage, which is one of the reasons that I pursued it when I was president of our homeowners association, and we placed a new cell tower about two-thirds of the way down our six -mile long subdivision. Unfortunately, the Verizon Wireless mappage that we EXHIBIT B 12 were given, as well as the AT&T mappage show that we were going to have very strong signals all the way down to the shoreline. I live on the shoreline. We didn't get any signal. The last ten blocks of both Hawaiian Beaches and Shores do not receive signal from that new tower because of the topography. So, you have to be a bit careful with the engineering design as to what actually occurs on ground. Another thing that's to be noted, I heard the representative from Verizon Wireless referred to being able to reduce the height of the tower. By reducing the height of the tower, you've also reduced the ability to add extra carriers, because they have to have at least a ten -foot vertical separation in order to operate on the same tower. So, if you reduce from 155 to 125, you've reduced the potential to have other carriers that'll want to site on that tower because they won't get the gain in coverage that they're looking for. I also understand that she tried to address the Homeowners Association in HPP, but when I investigated, it seemed more that she had gone to the office and talked to staff The way to address the HPP membership is to go to a membership meeting and request to be agendized on that membership meeting, and you will be addressing a hundred, a hundred and fifty residents of Hawaiian Paradise Park in that manner. As for other locations, where they're located, yes, we just acquired property, the County of Hawaii just acquired property to do a new County park and its 20 acres, but that's now in the County's hands. Right across the street from there is land held by Watumull Development Corporation. They were the original developers of HPP, and they have several 20 -acre sites that are there for commercial development. That might be a really good site. It's within three and a half blocks of where the current location is. Go close to a half mile to a mile down that roadway and you run into Shipman's land. Large 2,000 plus acre parcel that could also support. I've looked at the topography maps. There's some high points right there at the end of 22nd that might be adequate for the coverage that they're looking for in HPP. We need the coverage. I just wish they would do a more exhaustive search because these types of uses within small -lot subdivisions cause land use conflicts. HPP is 8,800 lots. We already have a lot of land use conflicts occurring in the park just under its current zoning. So, I don't think it's wise to exasperate that. That's just my feeling, and you've heard from the residents as to the need and as to their concerns. So, thank you very much. Appreciate. ROHR: That was very good. I'm Claudia Rohr. I don't live in HPP, but I was a realtor for several years and one of my pet peeves is that the Planning Department doesn't always enforce the law. When I was doing real estate, I investigated cell phone towers, and I sold a property that had a cell phone tower lease, and I believe the law says you have to own enough land that when it falls down you're leasing enough land that it won't fall on someone else's property. In other words, it doesn't seem like this portion is big enough. It would have to be 310 feet and circular so that it could fall down and not hit someone else's property. I don't know the law off -hand. I'd have to research it, but that was what my research was back in 2002 or one. Thank you. CLARKSON: Thank you. Are there any questions for either of the previous testifiers? If not, I have a request. IsShancy, are you able to put the map up? I'd just like to get a, kind of a EXHIBIT B 13 rough indication of where these other large lots are if they show up on any map that you have available WATANABE: Sure. CLARKSON: in relation to the, this site here. WATANABE: It doesn't really show up too well on this map. CLARKSON: Can somebody just—can you point out where the new County park land is? METTLER (standing near projector screen): This is the tip of it. CLARKSON: Okay. METTLER (standing near projector screen): You can see it there. So, if you're talking this distance and then you want something maybe down in the middle because you HALL: Sorry, can you come to the table, and speak into the microphone? ROHR: They want you to speak into the mic. METTLER (standing near projector screen): Oh, speak into the microphone. CLARKSON: Yeah, otherwise it, it won't be on the record. METTLER: Oh, sorry about that. CLARKSON: Can you please describe [Mr. Darrow handed Ms. Mettler a laser pointer; brief inaudible discussion.] METTLER (from audience area): Oh okay. Oh, I'm doing it wrong. Do the pointing for me, please. METTLER: So, you can see from the red, where the proposed site area is, then if you go down in between 24th Avenue and 26th Avenue is the park area. CLARKSON: And, that is approximately how far away from the proposed site? That— METTLER: I don't have a measuring tool. CLARKSON: Maybe—is that a thousand feet? HALL: Oh Shancy, go ahead and if you EXHIBIT B 14 METTLER: Oh no, not more than that. WATANABE: It's probably about 2,800 feet. CLARKSON: Twenty eight hundred feet? WATANABE: Yeah. CLARKSON: Half a mile. And, do we have any map that shows the, the existing coverage, the coverage plan? At one point we had, we had that. WATANABE: Yeah—the map on the right shows the all five sites. The proposed site is this one here. The green is the coverage. RAFFIPIY: Question CLARKSON: Okay there—the fourth— MARTIN: To be clear the yellow is also coverage but it's not as strong as the green. CLARKSON: The fourth site is the oneoh, now I'm confused. MARTIN: Northwest. So in between the—so you'll see Kaloli Drive there, so you've got it's in between. And, interestingly enough, the tower that's across the street, across the highway there, does not provide coverage to this area. It's actually getting its coverage from the tower at Shipman. Whatever coverage is there now when she talks about having to go outside her house to make a call, that coverage coming from Shipman Industrial. CLARKSON: Which is not, is that on that map? MARTIN: No. CLARKSON: Okay. MARTIN: Well, I guess it might be. If you look at the green up at the top left hand corner, that's probably Shipman Industrial coverage there. Maybe not, am I wrong? Ms. O'Hara tells me I'm wrong. I'm not sure. O'HARA (from audience): I'm not sure. CLARKSON: Now there was another—okay, so the, the site is the, okay I see. The one that the arrow seems to be pointed directly at, that's the proposed site? MARTIN: That's right. EXHIBIT B 15 WATANABE: Sorry, maybe I should describe this coverage map a little bit better. So sorry. Okay, so on the left is the three sites that are currently in use. The fourth site that was approved is in the pre -building permit stage. It's not fully constructed and operating just yet. So, this is the fifth site. The fifth site is this one here. The other four sites are here, one, two, three, and four. And, the one that's currently gonna be built that's in the building permit stages is this one here. CLARKSON: And, could somebody put the laser dot on the park area, and also there was another large parcel that looked like further down toward the fourth tower. WATANABE: The other park site? CLARKSON: Well can youI have a question about can you go back to the, the lot map again? What is the RAFFIPIY: Right there. CLARKSON: What is the, the parcel that is there off of Kaloli Drive by about, what is that, 15th? WATANABE: So, periodically throughout Paradise Park there are these open designated areas, not all of them have been developed. When you look at in the aerial, they're all just overgrown properties, but that proposed park site that they mentioned is this one here. CLARKSON: And what is that other WATANABE: It's another proposed open space area, but nothing's actually, you know, there's no development yet. And, so each one is about ten acres so the two of these area together about twenty acres. One, the park, I believe owns outright and the other one is owned in partnership with Watumull, so they have a joint ownership. And, I think that was part of the reason that you were having trouble with getting that site. MARTIN: That's right. CLARKSON: You tried to get that site, that— MARTIN: No, actually I talked to the because I did a lot of these sites in here, but when I first started I went to the Homeowners Association and I wanted to clarify, Ialthough I did go to the office several times, I did do a presentation at the board meeting, and I used a projector with a big screen and so there were, like I said, about twenty people there. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. My—at least I have a decent idea about where these other potential sites are. EXHIBIT B 16 WATANABE: Jeff also wanted me to remind you that in Exhibit 11 it shows a letter that the presentation was made back in 2015, before the Hawaiian Paradise Park Association. They had not commented on this particular application though. MARTIN: Did you receive that letter? WATANABE: It was part of your application. We included it as an exhibit. MARTIN: Oh, okay. RAFFIPIY: I have a question, Mr. Chairman. If you relocate that pole to one of these parks, how many customers you gonna lose and how many customers you gonna gain? What is the net gain or net loss if you relocate to one of these? MARTIN: Well actually, it's—it's either we cover the whole neighborhood or we cover, you know, I think we're moving it four streets so there would be like four streets in the middle. So figure four streets. We got Railroad—so somewhere around 16th Avenue, that area, and then four streets past that would probably have poor coverage. RAFFIPIY: So how many household, Ma'am, will you be losing or gaining. I'm kind of interested to know what would be the net loss or net gain as far as households in that area. MARTIN: You know, I don't know because I don't know if all of these are Verizon customers, and I don't know how many homes are built, and there's just a lot of things I don't know. RAFFIPIY: So, that's why it's just area coverage is the one that you're talking about. MARTIN: It's just, yeah right. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Ma'am. MARTIN: I also wanted to explain to you why we came to this. I know that Lauri DeAguiar had explained that she had talked to me. I gave you a letter and the reason why it was placed so close to their property is because they asked me to put it there. They asked me to put it there. We discussed giving them money to use their driveway for an easement access. They wanted it there because of security. They wanted it because of security, so I attached, for your information, the drawings that were provided to the DeAguiar's back in 2015 which shows the driveway, their driveway being used as the easement access. I've also given you the letter where I sent the easement document to them along with the subordination agreement. They decided not to sign that easement access and so we re -planned and brought the driveway in on 21st Street, but we planned it there and they did have knowledge about it and there was no talk of a 20 -foot cell tower. I would've never said that because I know, I've been doing this for 20 years now and I know that we have to be above the tree line. CLARKSON: Okay, thank you. Does any commissioner have any questions for any of the testifiers? Last chance. EXHIBIT B 17 RAFFIPIY: Okay, one more question, Mr. Chairman. Okay, now that we're talking about area coverage, what kind of—what area, what is the net gain, net loss of area that we're gonna lose or you're gonna gain if you relocate to one of these parks? MARTIN: You know, I had mentioned earlier that I could bring a radio frequency engineer in to talk to you about safety, but he could also explain to you about those net losses and gains. I am not an engineer. I don't have that information. So, if you would like to continue this hearing and get additional information, I'm requesting that. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Ma'am. I'm not really into the questioning the safety or anything, but I'm more, because you brought up the, you brought up that you will be losing area. MARTIN: That's right. RAFFIPIY: I wanted to know how much of a loss MARTIN: I'm sorry, I don't have— RAFFIPIY: if you MARTIN: I don't have that information. I'm assuming that it is the same area that, you know, if you move it—these rings, when they I'll explain my job to you. So, when I get an assignment from Verizon Wireless, they give me a ring of anywhere within this ring, go look for something. And, so we laughingly call it a search dot now because the towers have to be so much closer together because to meet the capacity. The smart phones use the capacity of ten regular phones and so these—and people are using so many devices in their house and so the need is, is growing tenfold. And, so these towers need to be closer together in order to meet the capacity. And, where was I going with this? REPLOGLE: The ring. MARTIN: Oh the ring, yeah, the search ring. So, they give you this search ring so as they're closer together and it really has to fit right into that ring. Right into that spot. You move it a little bit this way and then there's interference for this cell tower, move it the other way, there's interference or you're losing some coverage. So, I'm guessing that it's the same, same amount as, you know, as you're moving it that, that it, its coverage moves with it. And, that that area gets cut off, but I don't know for sure. RAFFIPIY: Thank you, Ma'am. CLARKSON: Thank you. We have to move on, Ma'am, I'm sorry. If there are no—the last question that I'd like to ask is, I know the lot is relatively small compared to 155 -foot tower, but is there some reason why the site location is on the edge of the property rather than trying to move it as far away as possible from the neighbors? Why it's right next to the house next door? EXHIBIT B 18 MARTIN: We can move it. We did that because the DeAguiar's asked us to, but the site could be moved. And, I might also suggest that we leave some of the, instead of doing formal landscaping around, to actually have it fit in better, we could move the tower over to the middle of the property away from them, and then leave some of the actual native brush there, you know, so that it wouldn't—it would be a good buffer. We talked about noise, too, and I wanted to mention to you that the—we've got an emergency generator and we have, and that only runs during emergencies. And, then we also have an air conditioner. So, an air conditioner, if a home was built next door, they could have an air conditioner. It wouldn't be any different. And, we don't have cars coming and going either. CLARKSON: Okay, and I understand you're going to be asking for a continuance of this hearing again? MARTIN: If you feel that it's beneficial. If the Commission feels that they would like to hear evidence from the subscribers of Verizon, how many within that area would like to have better cell coverage and if they agree to that location, if you would like that, or if you would like to have—if you think it would be beneficial to have a radio frequency engineer come explain to you why the coverage is necessary in this area, and the safety. That would be the only two reasons why. If you don't see any benefit in that, then no continuance. CLARKSON: I personally, and I can't speak for the Commission, but I would, you know, really like to talk to that radio engineer about why this location is the only possible location. It just seems to me from, I mean I only have a technician license MARTIN: I understand. CLARKSON: but it seems to me that coverage is dependent on power. Of course, that's limited. You probably operate at max power that you're allowed to. MARTIN: I don't think so. CLARKSON: Well, then that's a consideration. And tower height is another big MARTIN: I think that would be CLARKSON: In my understanding it's a, it greatly affects coverage. So MARTIN: —The engineer can very much explain that much better than I can. CLARKSON: Okay. MARTIN: I'm just a real estate agent. CLARKSON: Okay. EXHIBIT B 19 YEE: When youI think location is fairly important here. When you mention that you've, the DeAguiar's, you worked with them, and that's how you choose the location? MARTIN: Yes. YEE: I see body language that tells me they disagree with that. So, in your opinion, what's the source of the miscommunication? MARTIN: They decided that they didn't want to do the easement because Verizon requires that a subordination non -disturbance agreement be signed by their mortgage lender, and they didn't want to approach their mortgage lender and so we ended negotiations with them. But, I provided to you email evidence where I sent her and the landowner the drawings back in 2015. I also provided a copy of the letter when I transmitted the easement to her. So, if it's any incorrect, then my memory and my email is wrong, too. CLARKSON: If there are no further questions, thank you very much. Oh, you do? AGUINALDO: I do have a question, if I can ask the question, Mr. Commissioner, is with Shancy. So, basically if we all look at that map here, presently there are three sites in use, a fourth approved site is in the building permit stage. Which one is that, Shancy? Can you show me which is number four? And this proposed, Danette, is saying five? I just like to tell you folks it's kinda like what we call cell tower alley. It's kinda out—you know? It's kind of like MARTIN: It looks like that, doesn't it? AGUINALDO: I mean, in a cell tower business, wouldn't you want just one that can boost and, you know, you got, you got many pods. It's kinda like, you know, I mean in aI mean yeah, it's an ag zone area, but how many more of these towers in this subdivision that I don't think even you can answer. MARTIN: This is the last one, I'm told. AGUINALDO: Well, yes, you're told, but do you know they could've said the first one was the last one. Right? So, that's the one thing, I hear the concerns, I see the need of people. There's pros and cons, but again, from three to five now is like, what's going on? Is there other technologies that you can put up to boost these signals and, you know, frankly there were, you know, I was in a, went to a construction site within `Opihikao and Kalapana. Truthfully, I was blown away. I seen someone on a cell phone that there's no coverage there, and I said how did you guys get coverage? They were underneath a generator and they had a cell booster and I was just totally blown away that they had bars. And, I was just totally shocked. So, there's options. Now for you, Danette, if plan A doesn't work, what's your plan B, plan C, plan D in this area? Do you have a plan? MARTIN: Let me bring the, bring the engineer back next time, and I can have him answer those questions. EXHIBIT B 20 AGUINALDO: Okay. METTLER: I'm not an engineer, I don't know what they're backup plan is, if they have one. AGUINALDO: Thank you. MARTIN: Okay. CLARKSON: Thank you. If there are no further questions at this time, the Chair would entertain a motion to close public testimony. RAFFIPIY: I'd like to make a motion, Mr. Chairman, that we close public testimony at this time. IKEDA: I second. CLARKSON: It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor? COMMISSIONERS: Aye. CLARKSON: Opposed? Motion's carried. At this time the Chair would, I would like to receive a motion for a continuance of this hearing until we can have a full explanation of the coverage issue. Does that have to come from the Applicant? HALL: No. CLARKSON: No, okay. Unless there is a preference for any other motion for action. IKEDA: I'll move for continuance on this application. RAFFIPIY: I second. CLARKSON: All those in favor? COMMISSIONERS: Aye. CLARKSON: Opposed? Okay, this application is continued until a future date at which time we will have aVerizon will provide testimony of a radio engineer. The discussion ended at 10:40 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary Windward Planning Commission EXHIBIT B 21