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2017-10-27 Salary Commission Minutes
Page 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS SALARY COMMISSION MEETING Held at the Hawaii County Building, Puna Conference Room, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, 96720, commencing at 10:00 a.m., on October 27, 2017. REPORTED BY: TERI HOSKINS, CSR #452 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 CHAIRMAN: 2 HUGH Y. ONO, P.E. 3 4 BOARD MEMBERS: 5 FLORENCE K. IKEDA, VICE -CHAIR 6 THOMAS E. FRATINARDO 7 GEORGE W. CAMPBELL 8 JAMES W. HIGGINS 9 MILTON PAVAO, P.E. 10 HAROLD D. DOW 11 12 DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: 13 AMY SELF, ESQ. 14 15 HUMAN RESOURCES: 16 WILLIAM V. BRILHANTE, JR., EX -OFFICIO MEMBER 17 JENNIFER SAKAMOTO 18 19 ALSO PRESENT: 20 JAMIELYN MARTINES KIM KAILIPAKA 21 CRAIG MASUDA KEITH MORIOKA 22 MICHELE LAMKIN ROBERT BECKER 23 PAULA PAVAO NANCY COOK-LAUER 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 2 Page 3 1 CHR. ONO: Okay, I think we can start. 2 Why don't I call the meeting to order. 3 We need to start with roll call, and so 4 introduce yourself and do a short one -minute on, you 5 know, what you have done, or your background, so, you 6 know, we know what each other does and, you know, for 7 the benefit of our attendees in the audience also. We 8 can start with -- let's start with Amy. 9 MS. SELF: Hi, I'm Amy Self, Deputy 10 Corporation Counsel; so I'm the attorney that's 11 assigned to the Salary Commission to advise them on any 12 kind of legal issues that come up. 13 CHR. ONO: And you will be with us 14 continuously, right? 15 MS. SELF: Yes. 16 CHR. ONO: You're primary corp. counsel? 17 MS. SELF: Yeah, they just switched me over 18 to this. 19 MR. PAVAO: I'm Milton Pavao. I was with the 20 County for about 40 years, the last 17 of which I was 21 the Director of the Department of Water Supply. I'm 22 here because Hugh. 23 CHR. ONO: Thank you. 24 MR. HIGGINS: I'm Jim Higgins. I'm here 25 because of Hugh. We go back to the second grade. I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 4 was born and raised on Oahu, Navy for a few years, stockbroker for 40 years, and I've been retired now for 10 years. MR. CAMPBELL: Hi, I'm George Campbell, and I'm retired from Lawrence Livermore International Laboratory. I was involved in safety, security, environmental protection, head of -- well, the group which included planning, engineering and all of that. There was like a thousand people that I managed the day-to-day operations of. And I've only been on the island for five years, and I'm in Ka'u, Na'alehu. CHR. ONO: Yeah, George just got sworn in. MR. CAMPBELL: Sworn in this morning. CHR. ONO: Oh, was it this morning? MR. HIGGINS: Fresh meat. MR. CAMPBELL: I'm the low guy on the totem pole. CHR. ONO: That's right. You have no seniority. You know that. Go ahead. COURT REPORTER: Oh, hi. I'm Teri Hoskins, and I have been a court reporter here for about 13 years. MR. FRATINARDO: I'm Thomas Fratinardo, and I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 5 1 am from the east coast originally, but the United 2 States Marine Corps brought me here over 30 years ago. 3 And after Desert Storm, I went straight to the police 4 department, a career at the police department. When I 5 retired, I started serving -- even before, I was 6 serving on boards in Waikoloa and then a lot of 7 volunteer work. Just got to write an environmental 8 impact statement for the Laupahoehoe Experimental 9 Forest. Really interesting to be just involved in the 10 community other than wearing a uniform. 11 CHR. ONO: Harold? 12 MR. DOW: I'm Harold Dow. I live in 13 Kurtistown. I've been on the Big Island since '98. 14 I'm a retired medical doctor after 32 years in 15 emergency departments, originally in Texas and then 16 Washington State and then Hawaii. 17 I came to this commission as a result of a 18 conversation I had with one of the department directors 19 whom I had known in another capacity for a number of 20 years. He said, you know, "These boards and 21 commissions are in need of help. Why don't you take a 22 look and see if there's something that interests you 23 and something that you think you could contribute to?" 24 And so applied and I got vetted, and here I am. 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Bill Brilhante. I'm the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 6 1 Acting Human Resources director. That then makes me an 2 Ex -Officio member of this Commission. So, law 3 background, fire department background. That's pretty 4 much it. 5 CHR. ONO: Thanks. 6 MS. IKEDA: I'm Florence Ikeda, and I grew up 7 in Honolulu, but when I got married, I moved here, and 8 I have been here for I don't know how many years; but I 9 worked for the Department of Education for 30 years, 10 and I'm still helping the family business out. 11 CHR. ONO: Thanks, Florence. 12 I'm Hugh Ono. I'm retired government 13 engineer/manager. Been with the County of Hawaii, 14 DADS, and the Highways Division of the State Department 15 of Transportation. So over the past 20 years, I'm a 16 self-employed consultant in engineering and management. 17 Okay. With that said, you know, we have such 18 a small audience today, I'd like to find out who you 19 are in the audience. A couple of you asked to speak, 20 but perhaps we could start with Paula, I guess. 21 Oh, who are you? 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: I'm Jennifer Sakamoto. I am 23 our cost (inaudible) division head. 24 CHR. ONO: With DHERD? 25 MS. SAKAMOTO: No, with -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 7 1 CHR. ONO: I mean -- 2 MS. SAKAMOTO: -- the County, yeah. 3 CHR. ONO: -- Human Resources. 4 MS. SAKAMOTO: So, I help you folks gather 5 information, so the executive pay chart, like that kind 6 of information you want for us to research and provide 7 to you. 8 CHR. ONO: That was Jennifer? 9 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yes. Yes. I'm sorry I 10 couldn't make the last meeting, but I had -- 11 CHR. ONO: Yeah, you were -- 12 (Inaudible.) 13 Paula? 14 MS. PAVAO: I'm Paula Pavao, Milton's wife. 15 I'm just tagging along. 16 CHR. ONO: Supervising. 17 MS. PAVAO: Supervising. 18 MR. PAVAO: She's the boss. 19 CHR. ONO: We know. 20 MR. MASUDA: I'm Craig Masuda, Deputy 21 Corporation Counsel, section chief of the 22 Counseling/Drafting Division, but I'm here on my own, 23 representing myself, testifying. 24 CHR. ONO: I see you're going to be 25 testifying. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MASUDA: Yes. CHR. ONO: Keith? MR. MORIOKA: My name is Keith Morioka. I'm the Chair for the Application Commission. I'm just here to -- I guess just to visit. Someone had testified for us at the last meeting, so I didn't feel that it was necessary to testify again. Hopefully, not. MS. LAMKIN: Hi, I'm Michele Lamkin. I'm a new employee of the County, just started October 2nd, and I work with Jenny Sakamoto in classification and pay, so I'm learning the ropes right now. I came from private industry and spent about, I guess, 28, 29 years in private industry; but many years ago, in the early '80s, I did work in New Jersey for the Department of -- you know, for the state government, so I do have some governmental experience. MR. BECKER: Good morning. My name is Bob Becker. I am currently the Chairman of the Hawaii County Fire Commission. I've had a 40 -year career in the federal government, fire emergency management, working locally, regionally, nationally, and internationally. PETTY / A7T '? rT-3 T-) f�r7r� . Lou were at our last meeting. Yes, I was. I thought I saw you. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 9 1 MS. COOK-LAUER: Hi, I'm Nancy Cook -Lauer 2 with the West Hawaii Today. I'm a reporter and 3 covering the meeting to write a story; so look out, 4 reporter in the room. 5 CHR. ONO: Okay. So, what is fake news? 6 MS. COOK-LAUER: It's not in my vocabulary, 7 so I don't know. 8 CHR. ONO: Okay. With that being said, 9 let's continue on with the meeting. 10 We have statements from the public, so we 11 have two testifiers this morning. The first one that 12 signed up was Robert Becker, representing himself and 13 about the fire department salaries. 14 Robert? 15 MR. BECKER: Okay, thank you. I do have a -- 16 CHR. ONO: Does he have to turn on the 17 mic at all? 18 MS. MARTINES: No. 19 MR. BECKER: I have a copy of my statement 20 for everybody today, so you don't have to take notes. 21 Attached to the back of this is a copy of the position 22 description for the fire chief (SEE ATT. A). 23 MR. PAVAO: Question. Question for you. 24 CHR. ONO: Go ahead. 25 MR. PAVAO: I don't know if there's a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 10 1 possibility of a conflict of interest on the -- 2 listening to this and doing any action, because my 3 nephew is the fire chief. Is there a conflict? 4 MS. SELF: No, they're not taking any action, 5 and I don't -- I mean, unless you are benefiting from 6 whatever decision you guys make financially. 7 MR. PAVAO: So, it wouldn't be a conflict? 8 MS. SELF: No. 9 And if you wanted, you could even have the 10 commissioners vote on whether or not you should recuse 11 yourself if it comes to a vote that involves your 12 nephew. 13 MR. PAVAO: I'm sure whatever we take up 14 would involve -- 15 CHR. ONO: Yeah, I don't see any conflict 16 at all. It's just testimony. 17 MS. SELF: We can just wait until it gets to 18 that point. I don't think -- you're not even getting 19 close to taking action. 20 MR. PAVAO: I just wanted to put it out there 21 so there's no -- 22 CHR. ONO: So we know. 23 MR. PAVAO: -- no problems. 24 MS. SELF: Right. That's good. 25 CHR. ONO: Yeah, proceed. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 11 1 MR. BECKER: Good morning, Commissioners. 2 My name is Robert Becker, and I am the Chair of the 3 Hawaii County Fire Commission. Thank you for the 4 opportunity to make a statement before the Salary 5 Commission today. 6 As you continue your fiscal investigation and 7 make decisions on County agency head and deputy pay 8 inequities, I ask that you of course look at pay 9 inversion, but I also ask that you take more into 10 account than just pay inversion. Executives in public 11 service deserve pay that is commensurate with the 12 knowledge, skills, and abilities required by the 13 position. In many county departments, counterpart 14 positions and/or skill sets can be found in private 15 industry. That can't be said for public safety 16 positions, fire and police. Counterpart positions can 17 only be found in local, state and federal fire, and 18 police positions within the State and on the mainland. 19 Union fire contract negotiators look at mainland fire 20 department pay levels for comparable skills and 21 experience in setting their compensation requests, and 22 we should do the same for executives. 23 HFD is the second largest department in the 24 State in terms of paid staffing, but it's the most 25 complex in terms of diversity of required knowledge and ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 12 1 skills. HFD is the only department in the State that 2 staffs and manages the paramedic -based Emergency 3 Medical Services program as part of a paid work force 4 of 530 personnel dispersed throughout 19 fire stations 5 in the community. HFD is considered a combination 6 department that includes a volunteer firefighter 7 program housed in 20 volunteer stations with 8 approximately 130 volunteer firefighters. 9 Additionally, the department has rescue, hazardous 10 materials, water rescue, ocean safety, aviation, 11 wildland fire, prevention and inspection, training and 12 community paramedicine programs. The department's 13 response area is larger than all of the other fire 14 departments in the State combined, almost the size of 15 the State of Connecticut. Through the first nine 16 months of this year, HFD has already responded to 17 18,630 calls, a 5.3 percent increase from the 18 comparable period last year. 19 I realize that the Salary Commission only 20 sets the pay for the chief and the deputy chief, but 21 the problem goes deeper than that, and the current and 22 future health of the department is dependent on 23 adequately compensated, highly skilled individuals in 24 leadership positions. 25 The salary information you received for ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 13 1 County executives, deputies, and subordinates only 2 tells part of the fire department's story. Current 3 payroll inversion in the fire department actually 4 starts between the fire captains and the battalion 5 chiefs. The pay bands are so compressed that captains 6 take a pay cut to promote to a battalion chief 7 position. Fire department pay is also based on 8 additional contractual pay beyond base pay. Not shown 9 on the information you received is contract guaranteed 10 rank for rank emergency overtime that averages $15,000 11 a year per captain to cover for those on vacation and 12 sick leave. Rescue and HazMat captains also receive 13 8.126 percent additional pay over base per the 14 contract. Personnel receive holiday pay whether or not 15 they work the holiday. In the last promotion cycle for 16 multiple open battalion chief positions, only two 17 candidates remained after others eligible either didn't 18 apply or dropped out during the process over the pay 19 inversion issue. 20 At the operations battalion chief level, they 21 work 12 overtime shifts per year guaranteed by 22 contract, approximately $20,000. Bureau battalion 23 chiefs receive $4,200 in Bureau Opportunity Incentive 24 pay guaranteed by contract as do the assistant chiefs. 25 A short look back in time is also appropriate ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 14 1 when discussing executive pay. In 2005, the fire 2 department was reorganized and titles were changed 3 because of increased complexity and growth of the 4 department. Although the duties didn't change, 5 assistant chiefs were renamed battalion chiefs and were 6 downgraded from EM 07 to EM 05. New assistant chief 7 positions were established at the EM 07 level 8 supervising multiple battalion chiefs and other 9 programs. At the time, it was stated that this 10 situation was only temporary, but the issue has never 11 been addressed. 12 There is a proposal currently before the 13 mayor that would upgrade the assistant chief positions 14 from EM 05 to EM 07 and raise their pay to $132,744 15 plus contractual pay already in place. Also before the 16 mayor is a proposal to upgrade the battalion chiefs 17 from EM 03 to EM 05, upping the pay to $122,748 plus 18 contractual pay already in place. If these 19 rectifications of past inequities are enacted, the 20 inversion for the chief and deputy chief will be much 21 worse. In 2016, 26 fire department employees at the 22 rank of captain or above made more than the chief; 21 23 of them were captains. 31 employees made more than the 24 deputy chief; 26 of them were captains. These figures 25 don't include captains that retired in 2016 who may ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 15 1 have had lump sum payments for unused vacation time. 2 Both the chief and the deputy chief positions 3 work non -compensated overtime during emergency 4 call -outs and public engagements as I, and I'm sure 5 many of you, have personally observed. The fire chief 6 and deputy fire chief are the only HFD positions not 7 compensated with overtime pay. One of the reasons the 8 Fire Commission was established was to take the 9 politics out of the appointment of the chief. The 10 chief is not a political appointee; he is appointed by 11 the Fire Commission. The chief and the deputy chief 12 aren't in their positions just for the period of a 13 single administration; they are lifelong civil servants 14 serving the people of the County of Hawaii for their 15 entire professional careers. Attaining these positions 16 is the culmination of decades of dedication, 17 professional development, and plain hard work. 18 As all of you are aware, state law requires 19 that applicants for executive positions including the 20 fire chief be a state resident for one year to qualify 21 for the position. This requirement eliminates over 22 99.5 percent of the population of the United States; 23 literally thousands of potentially highly qualified 24 candidates are ineligible. Couple that with the fact 25 that all of the fire departments in the State are on ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 16 1 the same retirement system, the chances that a current 2 or retired chief officer in the State would apply for 3 the Hawaii County chief position are nil because they 4 would have to take a pay cut or lose retirement 5 compensation. To have a robust and highly qualified 6 applicant pool when Chief Rosario retires, we have to 7 grow our own within the department, and to do this we 8 need to have competitive pay. 9 The Hawaii County Fire Commission has created 10 an accurate and comprehensive position description for 11 the chief that we revalidate every year. We also hold 12 the chief accountable through established performance 13 elements that enable us to fairly judge the chief's 14 performance with as little subjectivity as possible. 15 We work with the chief to review the department's 16 specific program of work for every calendar year and 17 offer input based on commission member and public 18 input. I have provided the chief's position 19 description for you today. I urge you to review his 20 position description, the aforementioned program of 21 work, his performance elements, and other documents, 22 including, but not limited to, HFD organizational 23 structure charts to help further understand the scope 24 and the complexity of the chief's duties. 25 In closing, consider these figures for ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 17 1 comparative purposes: the chief of the smaller and less 2 diverse Maui Fire Department is paid $151,200 per year, 3 and the chief of the larger but less complex Honolulu 4 Fire Department is paid $185,112. In my research, it 5 was difficult to find fire chief positions in 6 California that were paid less than $200,000 per year, 7 and many of them had total pay and benefit packages 8 worth $300,000 per year or more, sometimes a great deal 9 more. Even the chief of a small city like Alameda, 10 California for example, with only four fire stations 11 and 87 personnel, paid their chief $243,000 with a 12 total pay and benefits compensation package worth over 13 $363,000 in 2016. I'm not suggesting that the HFD -- 14 Hawaii Fire Department -- chief be paid at this level, 15 but it must be understood that these figures are not 16 atypical within the fire executive community. 17 In summary, we need to pay our chief and 18 deputy chief as the highly skilled professionals they 19 are. It is paramount for the future of the department 20 to make senior positions attractive to rank and file so 21 that the best and brightest will compete for, and 22 promote up through, the ranks into these positions. If 23 we don't fairly compensate our executive leaders, the 24 whole of the fire department and the department's 25 ability to serve the public will suffer over time. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 18 1 Thank you for your consideration today. 2 Please don't hesitate to contact me for additional 3 documentation or if I can be of further assistance. 4 CHR. ONO: Thank you, Robert. 5 Any questions of Robert Becker? 6 MR. HIGGINS: Robert, thank you for your 7 presentation. Going on to the idea that these past 8 inequities are going to be resolved, is the odds of 9 that very good? Is the mayor likely to sign? 10 MR. BECKER: I haven't spoken with the mayor 11 about that. I know that the chief did present that 12 information to the mayor, and I guess it would be up to 13 the Salary Commission to talk to the mayor about where 14 that's at. I do know it has been presented to him and 15 it was not rejected out of hand. I'll say that. 16 MR. HIGGINS: Thank you. 17 CHR. ONO: Any other questions? 18 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. Thank you for -- 19 CHR. ONO: Any comment on -- 20 MR. BRILHANTE: Just for clarification, the 21 pay for the battalion chiefs and assistant chiefs do 22 not come under the jurisdiction of the Salary 23 Commission. That's a matter that comes under the 24 Excluded Management Pay Program, and -- 25 CHR. ONO: We'll be talking a lot about ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 19 1 that Excluded Management Pay Program, because this 2 commission and its members has to understand how that 3 works in order to work on some of the other things. So, 4 thank you. 5 MR. CAMPBELL: A comment. I certainly thank 6 you very much for your presentation, and I certainly 7 agree with the complexity of the fire chief's job. At 8 my last position, the fire chief reported to me, or the 9 fire department did, and so -- Lawrence Livermore 10 Laboratory was radioactive materials plus all of the 11 wildfire support. It was a complex operation, so I 12 really understand the abilities and experience that are 13 necessary for someone to lead a department like you 14 have -- like we have as a County; so I really support 15 what you have said here. 16 MR. BECKER: Quite literally, there's a 17 assistant chief position open right now; if the chief 18 quit his chief position and took the assistant chief 19 position, he'd get a raise. And that's two steps below 20 him. 21 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we have that same 22 situation in many of the departments, as I understand. 23 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 24 CHR. ONO: Yes. 25 Milton? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 20 1 MR. PAVAO: I have a comment. 2 First of all, thank you for the report. You 3 did a good job. 4 From the last meeting, when we were talking 5 about the police chief, I knew this thing would 6 snowball, because it's not only the police chief, fire 7 chief; everybody else. So my comment to you -- or 8 maybe if you guys ever thought of this, but one way to 9 solve the problem within each department -- and it may 10 not be good. I don't know -- have something similar to 11 the Department of Water Supply, where the board or the 12 commission, whatever it may be -- you folks -- have the 13 right to adjust the fire chief's salary without the 14 Salary Commission's -- in other words, it would require 15 a charter amendment to do that. That way, you can keep 16 abreast of things going on. 17 Because for the Salary Commission to do that, 18 you have to be constantly looking at everything that's 19 going on within all the departments, but if each 20 commission could do that by themselves, it would get 21 easier; you would be able to set the pay, and you could 22 look at the, you know, equity among ranks. That's just 23 a comment. And, like I said, that would require a 24 charter amendment. 25 I don't know if that's the right way to go or ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 21 1 if the Salary Commission is the right way to go, but 2 then again, that's also a snowball effect, because if 3 you do it, then the Police Commission certainly should 4 do it too, and I don't know what else -- what other 5 departments. But it's going to snowball. This whole 6 thing is going to snowball. 7 CHR. ONO: Just my comment. One of the 8 things that's different about the Department of Water 9 Supply versus you, your funding comes from the general 10 fund or those kind of sources -- 11 MR. PAVAO: Oh. 12 CHR. ONO: -- and the Water Supply is 13 somewhat autonomous; they have their own funding. So 14 that would be a significant difference. 15 But this is all interesting stuff, and we're 16 really going to get into it. I know that. 17 Any other questions? If not -- 18 MR. FRATINARDO: I have a question. 19 CHR. ONO: Thomas, go ahead. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: You did bring up the fact 21 that an assistant chief position that's available right 22 now, if the -- if the chief applied for it, he would 23 most likely get it. Is he considering doing that? 24 MR. BECKER: No. No, I think we're very 25 lucky that we have a very highly qualified chief, that ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 22 we all have full confidence in, on the Fire Commission. And I think, you know, it says a lot about his dedication and his willingness to do the right thing, that he's not just chasing the money. I mean, he's a guy that's very dedicated to his job, and I think he does a great job. MR. FRATINARDO. Thank you. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. CHR. ONO: Any other questions of Robert? If not, thank you, Robert. MR. BECKER: thank you. CHR. ONO: Next speaker is -- is it Craig Matsuda? MR. MASUDA: Masuda. CHR. ONO: Masuda. Okay. MR. MASUDA: Good morning, Chair. Good Morning, Commission. I'm Craig Masuda. I'm here in an individual capacity. And, yes, I am on vacation for one hour, so I think it's -- well, some of my background. I have been both deputy prosecutor for over 14, 15 years; I've been with the corporation counsel for about 14 years. So I'm getting close to my 30, looking at the high 3, but won't be able to retire. I think it's also important that the commission remember that all attorneys in the County of ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 23 1 Hawaii are appointed attorneys. They serve at will, 2 purely at will. You can just come in after lunch one 3 day, and they'll just say, "Okay, pack up. I want you 4 out by tomorrow," and you have no rights to argue about 5 it; you just pack up and leave. 6 And that's where your County attorneys, both 7 prosecutors and corporation counsel -- that's the 8 status that they have. They have no work protection, 9 no civil -- civil rights -- sorry. We do have civil 10 rights, but no civil service protection. 11 We have several new attorneys, young 12 attorneys, and our young attorneys are not like our 13 old-time attorneys like Bill and Amy in that the new 14 attorneys -- and I think it's true of all work 15 forces -- they don't have the -- they don't have the 16 sense of tradition and history. Everything is 17 immediate for them. I'm not saying it's just 18 Millennials, but the X Generation, the Y Generation. 19 And they look at what is our pay, and when I told them, 20 "Well, the last time we got a pay raise was almost ten 21 years ago," each one of them thought I was joking. 22 They couldn't believe the last time we got an 23 across-the-board raise was about ten years ago. 24 So the issue comes up for them of -- some of 25 them have been here over a year, some of them less than ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 24 1 that. And they're young. They're mobile. The work 2 force now is mobile. They're thinking, "Well, why 3 should I stay?" Maui -- you already have the 4 comparisons in pay given to you by Laureen Martin. She 5 submitted written testimony. And it's not a little bit 6 different; it's thousands of difference. And for Maui, 7 it's statutory. So, for them to say "I'm going to 8 invest in this island, invest in this position, and 9 stay long term," it's kind of hard for them to swallow 10 that when they think, "Okay, we'll get a raise every 11 ten years." They don't think in terms of ten years; 12 they think in terms of now, two years, three years, 13 probably, at the most. 14 What I'm asking this Commission to do is give 15 them some sense of hope, because if you tell a young 16 attorney now, "Wait ten years. You might get a raise," 17 that doesn't fly. That's not hope. Always remember, 18 too, that for us and for what you folks are doing now, 19 you're selling the top level. You're selling the level 20 of the deputy -- excuse me -- either the first deputy 21 and the prosecutor, and then the corporation counsel. 22 That doesn't mean that they are going to get automatic 23 raises. They have to earn those raises, right? But 24 without your folks' action, they don't even have hope; 25 and that's a pretty sad state of affairs when you don't ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 25 1 have hope. 2 I've already talked about the counties' 3 comparison. And, yes, we are officially number one; 4 we're the lowest -paid county attorneys in the State. 5 And that's not something we ever wanted to have; and it 6 sure makes it hard to attract attorneys. Like I said, 7 several attorneys, they -- two of them have roots on 8 the island, so they came from the mainland; they came 9 back home. But they also have family members on other 10 islands, so when the discussion of pay raises or even 11 the topic of Salary Commission finally having a quorum 12 comes up, everybody starts looking again. Everybody 13 starts dusting off their resume. 14 The amount of time we invest -- Bill helped 15 with supervision; Amy was, I assume, before in the 16 office; I'm a supervisor now -- we invest a lot of time 17 and effort in training these new attorneys. You can 18 come in from outside to have -- you know, and have 19 maybe six, seven years' experience. And that's very 20 preferable. That's what we usually want. But county 21 government and state -- county government is very 22 different from any other kind of practice of law you'll 23 ever see anywhere. 24 So, that's all I would ask of you folks is 25 just give these guys some hope. Give them some reason ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 26 1 to consider staying. 2 And I have 30 minutes left on my vacation, I 3 have a five-minute walk, so if you folks have any 4 questions... 5 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, I have a question. What 6 would you attribute to the fact that there hasn't been 7 a pay raise in ten years? What contributed to that? 8 MR. MASUDA: Lot of it was Salary Commission 9 not having quorum. Lot of it was Salary Commission 10 members -- and I'm not criticizing them, but I think 11 this is -- it was part of a issue; they did not take to 12 heart their role as, by Charter, as being separate. 13 Okay? It is not the Salary Commission's role, in my 14 belief, in my interpretation of the Charter, to balance 15 can the County afford it? What is the budget this 16 year? That's not your role. Your role is to see that 17 equity is done as far as pay is concerned. 18 I've been the -- I was -- well, I just came 19 back from prosecutor's after two years of not being 20 with the corporation counsel. But even prior to that, 21 probably 13 years as the legal counsel for Department 22 of Finance. Okay? I talked to Deanna, and I think 23 she's also testified before that whatever you folks do, 24 they can match it; the money can be found there. The 25 reason I say that is because it has to be found there. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 27 1 It's the law. And then they'll come up with a balanced 2 budget. Will it break the County? No. The heaviest 3 burden on the County as far as pay raises is also going 4 to be your bargaining units. 5 MS. IKEDA: Craig, how many attorneys are we 6 looking at? Number? 7 MR. MASUDA: Total? Probably about 30 to 40. 8 I don't know how many prosecutors we have now, because 9 some have left. And the prosecutor's office -- it's a 10 good -- it's a great training ground. I mean, if you 11 want to learn trial, it's a great training ground to 12 learn trial and go. I think last year -- I think 13 seven. 14 MS. IKEDA: So to be fully staffed, what 15 number are we looking at? 16 MR. MASUDA: For prosecutor's office, I don't 17 know. 18 MS. IKEDA: No, for corporation counsel. 19 MR. MASUDA: For corporation counsel, it's 20 15. 21 MS. IKEDA: Fifteen. 22 MR. MASUDA: And this is the first time we're 23 fully staffed in -- 24 MR. BRILHANTE: Years. 25 MR. MASUDA: -- nine? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 28 1 MR. BRILHANTE: Nine, ten years. 2 MR. MASUDA: Around there. 3 CHR. ONO: How many attorneys is that? 4 MR. BRILHANTE: for corporation counsel. 5 MR. MASUDA: Corporation counsel. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Just to clarify the record, 7 in your capacity, Salary Commission doesn't have the 8 authority to set the pay for the deputy corporation 9 counsel. What happens is pursuant to the language in 10 the Charter, the Salary Commission sets the salary for 11 the head prosecutor, Mitch, and the head corporation 12 counsel, Joe Kamelamela, and then the first assistant 13 prosecutor, Dale Roth, and the assistant corporation 14 counsel, Renee Schoen. So, you set those salaries. But 15 per Charter, the deputies can make a salary no greater 16 than 90 percent of the prosecutor or the corporation 17 counsel. 18 So what happens is there's that domino 19 effect, you know. If the prosecutor/head corporation 20 counsel's salary doesn't change, then there's no room 21 for the deputies' salaries to change. So that's what 22 Mr. Masuda is addressing. 23 MR. FRATINARDO: Can I make a comment? 24 CHR. ONO: Yeah, go ahead, Thomas. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: Coming out of the Police ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 29 1 Department, not only with the prosecutor -- prosecuting 2 attorney -- I worked with Mr. Masuda. I've also had to 3 sit with civil litigation as a witness. So the same, 4 when he comes out of corporation counsel, they're there 5 advising the police department on what our role is, not 6 to say how we need to testify; but we have -- we want 7 to have confidence -- our police department wants to 8 have confidence in both the corporation counsel and the 9 prosecuting attorney. We need those people to go to 10 for advice. We need -- the police department needs -- 11 and the fire department, they need to have that 12 resource to get the best, best advice. And I assume 13 that Craig is one of the two Hawaii attorneys that he 14 was referring to. There are two in your office? You 15 said there were -- there were a couple of Hawaii 16 attorneys in the office and the rest are from the 17 mainland? 18 MR. MASUDA: Oh, no, no, no. No, no. We 19 just had -- there's two new attorneys who came from the 20 mainland who lived in Hawaii before. They came back. 21 MR. FRATINARDO: Oh, okay. 22 MR. MASUDA: Those are the -- those two new 23 ones. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 25 So, for me as an officer, I relied on our ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 30 1 deputy prosecutor -- there's a deputy prosecutor in 2 every district. So in Waimea, we had Janet Garcia at 3 the time. I was in her office every day. And they 4 work until 10:00, midnight, sometimes, depending on the 5 case we have, the felony cases we had to investigate; 6 or on the civil side, when I was involved with -- when 7 Detective Pacheco murdered his wife in Waikoloa on 8 January 4th of 2002, I was appearing -- there were 9 several lawsuits against the County, and I got called 10 to appear before these lawsuits. And sitting next to 11 me at the time were two very, very competent senior 12 corp. counsel attorneys. 13 And that's -- for me to be able to -- to 14 depend on those attorneys to back me up in situations 15 like this, we need to be paying these people what they 16 deserve. 17 MR. HIGGINS: You know, listening to all of 18 this, the basic problem is not that previous boards 19 have been neglecting hope and wanting to encourage 20 high-quality people; the problem, as I read it from 21 what Bill just said, is that the top guns have not been 22 raised. 23 MR. MASUDA: Yes. 24 MR. HIGGINS: That's it. So, we're wasting a 25 lot of time talking about hope and all of that. If we ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 31 1 don't solve the problem of getting the top guns the 2 proper pay, nothing is going to happen below. 3 MR. MASUDA: Right. Exactly. And that's why 4 we're looking at, if you don't raise the top, there's 5 no hope for the bottom. 6 MR. HIGGINS: Okay. So, we have to solve 7 that. That's the problem. 8 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. Well, it would appear 9 to be. And I believe the climate within this 10 commission is that, number one, we want to take care 11 and address the immediate problem of this salary 12 inversion that's occurring. 13 Secondly, I believe that we're hoping that we 14 can take care of something and put something in place 15 that doesn't require every Salary Commission to go 16 ahead and make an adjustment, because these salaries 17 are very much directly related to the collective 18 bargaining agreements and what happens to the excluded 19 management level. So, when there's a bump in those, 20 that's what causes that inversion to occur. 21 So, I hope that we're able to do that, and I 22 believe, speaking for all the members of the 23 commission, I do hear sincerity in addressing that and 24 solving it. 25 MR. HIGGINS: Right on. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 32 1 MR. MASUDA: Well, thank you, because, you 2 know, that -- that does give hope, so thank you. 3 CHR. ONO: Thank you. 4 MR. MASUDA: Good to see you again. 5 CHR. ONO: Any other questions? 6 Milton, you have a question for Craig? 7 MR. PAVAO: Craig, was I correct in hearing 8 that this Hawaii County is the lowest of all the 9 islands? 10 MR. MASUDA: Yes. 11 MR. PAVAO: Wow. 12 CHR. ONO: We don't want to -- that's 13 bragging rights, isn't it? 14 MR. MASUDA: Yeah. 15 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 16 MR. MASUDA: Well, even the Cubs came around 17 sooner or later. 18 CHR. ONO: Any other questions of Craig? 19 Okay, if not, thank you, Craig. 20 MR. MASUDA: Well, I thank you for your time. 21 MR. PAVAO: So, how many minutes left of 22 vacation? 23 MR. MASUDA: Actually, if I run back now, I 24 will have to take three-quarters of an hour. 25 CHR. ONO: Is there anybody else from the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 33 1 1 audience that wants to speak at all? 2 Keith, do you want to say anything? 3 MR. MORIOKA: No, I think everything was said 4 that I hoped was said. 5 CHR. ONO: Again, Keith is the Chair of 6 the Police Commission. I really wasn't inviting him to 7 speak; I'm just being nice to him, yeah. Yeah, Keith's 8 son and I had worked together at the Department of 9 Transportation. 10 Okay. If not, can we continue on with the 11 agenda? 12 Next item is approval of minutes, and we have 13 none to approve, so there's no action on that. 14 Announcements. We have -- I -- is it -- 15 there's a couple things. Okay. Renee Schoen used to 16 be the corp. counsel assigned to this, and she no 17 longer is because, I believe what happened, she got 18 promoted, yeah. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 20 CHR. ONO: And her position is now going 21 to be one of those that we will deliberate on. So, 22 anyway, Amy has been assigned as our regular corp. 23 counsel, so Amy is with us now. 24 Welcome aboard. 25 MS. SELF: Thank you. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 34 1 CHR. ONO: And did you want to say 2 anything? 3 MS. SELF: Well, I'll be saying something 4 here pretty soon. 5 CHR. ONO: You will. Yeah. 6 She'll be covering some of the OIP stuff. 7 Also, something was brought to my attention -- 8 and, Bill, I don't know whether we want to mention it 9 here, but I've been made aware that there were requests 10 coming in from individual commissioners and going 11 through the Department of Human Resources, and it 12 was -- some of them were redundant, so we had several 13 people within the Department of Human Resources 14 responding to this. 15 So, if I'm not mistaken, Bill, did you want to 16 talk about how you want to handle this in the future 17 so, you know, we don't have people flying all over the 18 place, or employees, so to speak? 19 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. Thank you very much, 20 Chair. 21 I'm William Brilhante. 22 You know, what happened in the most recent 23 past, within the last several weeks -- and I 24 understand, and I have to commend the commissioners on 25 their eagerness and their desire to get a better handle ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 35 1 on the situation, as well as the desire to do your due 2 diligence to make sure that you are fully up to speed 3 and fully aware of, you know, everything that's going 4 on. 5 Unfortunately, in regards to that, you know, 6 I think several of the commissioners were taking it 7 upon themselves to directly contact the Department of 8 Human Resources as well as Corporation Counsel. And I 9 think what happened was, you know, I noticed my 10 personnel was kind of running around like chickens 11 without, you know, heads, trying to address your 12 concerns; because each of your concerns and each of 13 your requests are, you know, really important to us, 14 and we want to satisfy your requests and meet your 15 expectations. 16 And so what I did was, you know, during that 17 period of time, I had a chance to speak to the Chair, 18 and we came up with a recommendation that if there is a 19 request for information from either the Department of 20 Human Resources or Corporation Counsel, we would 21 request that if that, you know, request would go 22 through the Chair and then the Chair would then contact 23 either myself or, you know, Amy, and then we would 24 forward it to the most appropriate, you know, personnel 25 within our departments to properly respond to the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 36 requested information. I think just for, you know, economy of time and scale and, you know, everything, I think that would be the best course of action moving forward. So, again, it's just a request that we made to the Chair. ("T7 T�/lTT/l 7 don't hesitate -- TRT-) TI T NTT/l. should be. Is that okay with everybody. Sounds good. I think it makes sense. So That's probably the only way it CHR. ONO: Yeah. Don't call me, I'll call you. No, I'm just kidding. MR. BRILHANTE: We're not saying that. CHR. ONO: Yeah, just funnel your requests through either myself or Florence, and then we'll follow up on it. And if we don't, you can impeach us. MS. SELF: To add to that, if it is asking for information, though, I think that probably that should be added to the future agenda so that everybody has the same information -- MR. PAVAO: Right. MS. SELF: -- you know, so... ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 37 1 MR. FRATINARDO: So I have a question. What 2 is Glynis' -- or what is the cutoff time that you need 3 to know before? It's six days, right -- 4 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: -- before? Okay. So... 6 MR. BRILHANTE: The statutory requirement is 7 that we post the agenda six days prior to the meeting 8 date. 9 CHR. ONO: Okay. Any questions? Okay. 10 If not, I just wanted to mention, on these meetings 11 here, my style of conducting the meeting is to keep it 12 as meaningful as possible, so -- I would like to keep 13 meetings on time. I would hope that we could complete 14 all our business within a two-hour period. And if we 15 can't, that's okay, as long as it's meaningful stuff 16 that we're doing. So, at times, if the meeting is -- 17 the discussion is running away, I may ask that we 18 refocus on what we're talking about to keep it on that 19 item. 20 So, with that said, I don't think I have 21 anything else in the way of announcements. 22 The next thing is -- does anybody have any 23 announcement they want to make? Okay. 24 If not, the next thing is the communications. 25 As part of our material received -- we received a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 38 1 couple items. One was a document from William 2 Brilhante, who is sitting right here, and -- 3 Is this what we should be doing, receiving 4 this communication, Amy? 5 MS. SELF: Yes. 6 CHR. ONO: Okay. So let it be so noted 7 that this document dated October 24th, 2017 was sent 8 out to us via e-mail (SEE ATT. B). 9 And so, Bill, do you want to do a short 10 briefing on what this is? And then we'll enter it into 11 the record. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: Sure. Thank you very much, 13 Chair. 14 Again, William Brilhante. 15 This document dated October 24th, 2017 was a 16 document prepared by our office, specifically 17 Ms. Jennifer Sakamoto, in regards to a state-wide board 18 that she was sitting on as a representative of the 19 County of Hawaii Department of Human Resources. And 20 what this information captures is the comparison -- 21 or not really comparison, but the data that relates to 22 what private sector executives' pay are. And we kind 23 of related it back to a comparison to what our 24 governmental executives' duties and responsibilities 25 would be, and we kind of, you know, brought the two ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 39 1 1 together and did a comparison. 2 So, say, for example, if you go to page 9, 3 it's identified on the bottom right of this document. 4 If you look at the Chief -- on the top, it says 42.10. 5 It's Chief Financial Officer. And on page 10, you look 6 at 42.51, Top Legal Executive. And you can go through, 7 and those are the positions for each page. And then if 8 you look at the bottom, it says "Base Pay Salary 9 Range." Again back to page 9. If you look, the 10 bottom -most line is "Average Minimum Pay" and then 11 "Average Maximum Pay." 12 So, what it did was it took -- there was a 13 questionnaire that was submitted; information was 14 submitted by 189 private businesses within the State as 15 it relates to their executive pay. So that's what this 16 information relates to. 17 CHR. ONO: Yeah. And this document will 18 give you a good view of what the private sector is 19 doing. Am I correct on that? 20 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct. 21 And the reason that we compiled this 22 information was because the specific language of the 23 Charter says that this body is responsible to set the 24 County executive pay in comparison to both, you know, 25 other government sectors as well as private sector ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 40 executives as well. CHR. ONO: Any questions on that? MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. MR. PAVAO: I'm sorry. This doesn't take into account benefits, does it? This is straight pay? MR. BRILHANTE: This is straight salary. MR. PAVAO: Is there any way -- CHR. ONO: Oh, sorry. MR. CAMPBELL: Go ahead. MR. PAVAO: Is there any way that benefits can be counted? MR. BRILHANTE: It would be really hard for us to obtain that information -- MR. PAVAO: Especially from the private. MR. BRILHANTE: -- from the private sector as relates to benefits. So many of the private sector, you're looking at stock options and -- like that. You know, just not able to capture. And we can't even -- MR. PAVAO: This is the nearest realistic figures. MR. BRILHANTE: Across-the-board, yes. MS. SAKAMOTO: (Inaudible.) MR. BRILHANTE: There is a column -- there is a section here on each page. If bonus data was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 41 1 provided by the various sectors, then it would be on 2 the -- 3 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 4 MR. BRILHANTE: -- columns on the right -most 5 side of those. 6 MR. PAVAO: Is the bonus cranked into the 7 averages? 8 MS. SAKAMOTO: I think it's explained. If 9 you go across, this is the base pay, and then it has 10 the bonus data. 11 MR. PAVAO: No, no, I know that, but my 12 question is, is it -- you know, on the bottom line, the 13 average and maximum, is that cranked into that figures? 14 MS. SAKAMOTO: It doesn't look like it. 15 MR. PAVAO: So it's not -- the average does 16 not include the bonuses? 17 MR. BRILHANTE: That would be our 18 conservative, yes, that the bonuses have not been 19 averaged into the average minimum pay. 20 MS. SAKAMOTO: Because it says "Base Pay 21 Salary." 22 CHR. ONO: That's what you wanted us to 23 look at -- 24 MS. SAKAMOTO: Right. 25 CHR. ONO: -- is the base pay. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 42 1 MS. SAKAMOTO: The government doesn't provide 2 bonuses. 3 MR. CAMPBELL: So, we heard earlier from the 4 fire department comparison against mainland fire 5 departments, and I noticed this survey just includes 6 Hawaii for the most part. And so, is there any 7 consideration -- or do you look at some of the surveys 8 that are done on the mainland for government 9 organizations, in particular, for police and fire? 10 MR. BRILHANTE: I think the answer to your 11 question is two-part. First, this information captured 12 in this report, which is inclusive of Hawaii, 189 13 businesses within Hawaii. 14 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: As it relates to police and 16 fire, unfortunately, there's no private sector police 17 and fire that we can really realistically look at to 18 compare the County police and fire to; so that's why, 19 you know, within the state of Hawaii, it's hard to 20 find, you know, private industry comparisons for police 21 and fire. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: I understand that. So, the 23 question is have you -- or is it possible to consider 24 government police and fire from the mainland as 25 compared to Hawaii? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 43 1 MR. BRILHANTE: That would be for -- that 2 would be for you to determine, you know, if that's 3 how wide you want to cast your net as a board, you 4 know? Just historically and generally, we look at what 5 the local jurisdictions are providing for the 6 government sector, you know, the comparisons, what is 7 the mayor in the City and County of Honolulu, County of 8 Maui, County of Kaua'i making in comparison to the 9 County of Hawaii or, you know, the police chief or the 10 fire chief? But it's your prerogative. Is that 11 information that you're requesting that we take a look 12 at? We could probably obtain that information. 13 CHR. ONO: George, there's another 14 document that we received, too, that includes all the 15 jurisdictions throughout the state of Hawaii, so it's 16 really interesting to look at because, typically, when 17 you look at that, the County of Hawaii is at the 18 bottom. 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, I looked at those. 20 CHR. ONO: Okay. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: I did look at all of that. 22 And my concern is, and one, I think, that we needed to 23 work on as a commission is because particularly for 24 police and fire, that the complexity of this island is 25 more different than the other islands, as we just heard ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 44 1 this morning, and so what I'd like to see us consider 2 is comparison against some of the mainland -- 3 CHR. ONO: We can look at those. 4 MR. CAMPBELL: -- equivalent operations -- 5 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 6 MR. CAMPBELL: -- so we can come up with a 7 fair number to present to the board. 8 MR. BECKER: if I may, there's a website 9 called Transparent California; and if you go on there, 10 it has the data from the counties and the cities in 11 California about what pay is, what retirement is. You 12 can search it by city, county, name, title, from 2016 I 13 think back to 2010, and you can go on there and you can 14 see some of that data. 15 MR. CAMPBELL: Does that include county as 16 well as city? 17 MR. BECKER: Yes. 18 CHR. ONO: Part of the discussion that's 19 occurring now is something that will take place later 20 on, when we get into the details. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: I understand. 22 CHR. ONO: We're just talking about 23 receiving this communication for the time being. 24 So, any other questions on this communication 25 from Mr. Brilhante? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 45 1 MR. PAVAO: Just to say thanks. Really 2 helpful. Thank you. 3 MR. BRILHANTE: You would have to thank my 4 staff. They worked incredibly long hours to get this 5 information. 6 MR. PAVAO: Thank you, Jennifer. 7 CHR. ONO: Good job. Thank you. 8 MS. SAKAMOTO: Sure. 9 CHR. ONO: There's also another 10 communication. It's almost like a written testimony. 11 It's from Ms. Lauren Martin, or is that Laureen Martin? 12 MS. SELF: Laureen. 13 MR. BRILHANTE: Laureen. 14 CHR. ONO: And she's a member of the 15 Office of Corporation Counsel. And it's a pretty 16 comprehensive letter that identifies some of the 17 information as far as salary items with regard to being 18 a -- I think she's a deputy corporation counsel. 19 MS. SELF: She's the supervisor of the 20 Litigation Division of Corp. Counsel. 21 CHR. ONO: Okay. And, again, if you 22 haven't had a chance to review it, you can take a look 23 at it (SEE ATT. C). 24 MS. SELF: There's a lot of information 25 within this, to include sample bills and ordinances ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 46 1 from Maui County, which appears to be more current than 2 certainly we are. 3 MR. FRATINARDO: Very similar to what Craig 4 Masuda shared. Very similar. 5 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. 6 Any questions on this? Of course she's not 7 here to respond to them, but -- okay. If not, do I 8 need a motion to file this? 9 MR. BRILHANTE: You should file all of the 10 communications. 11 CHR. ONO: Treat it with one motion at 12 the same time? 13 MS. SELF: Yeah. 14 CHR. ONO: Okay. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: We have one more document is 16 why. 17 CHR. ONO: That's right. And this is the 18 one that was from your department, Bill, and this is 19 the executive salary jurisdiction comparison? Is that 20 what that is? 21 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct, Chair. 22 At the last meeting, there was a request by 23 Commissioner Pavao to have, I guess, a cleaner draft of 24 the information that compares the State, City and 25 County of Honolulu, Hawaii County, Maui County, Kaua'i ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 47 1 County executive salaries (SEE ATT. D). 2 So you can see the top portion is the 3 demarcation describing each jurisdiction. And on the 4 right -- the first column on the left -- I'm sorry. So 5 the column on the left going down are the position 6 descriptions as it relates to each position; and then 7 you can see the comparison salaries going across in 8 a -- I guess it's a clearly visible presentation. 9 And, again, I thank my staff for putting -- 10 you know, expending long hours to put this together 11 again. 12 CHR. ONO: So I actually looked at it, 13 and then I highlighted which ones are the lowest ones. 14 So, the column that you see all those orange things are 15 County of Hawaii. 16 Any questions on this? 17 I have a question. So, the positions on the 18 left are typically about the positions that we're going 19 to be looking at? 20 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct. 21 CHR. ONO: And they do not include the 22 deputies? 23 MR. BRILHANTE: If you look at the blue -- 24 let's use the blue highlighted boxes as our parameters. 25 The first box is -- we look at the governor, the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 mayors, and the prosecuting attorneys. 2 CHR. ONO: Yes. 3 MR. BRILHANTE: And the second blue 4 highlighted section is the department heads, and so 5 that information below that second blue highlighted 6 box. Then if you look at the third blue highlighted 7 box, that's information as it relates to each 8 department deputies. 9 CHR. ONO: Okay. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: And, you know, just a note 11 for clarification, a lot of the positions that -- you 12 know, on the state level or identified by other 13 jurisdictions, they're named differently, you know? 14 CHR. ONO: Right. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: So "prosecutors" is possibly 16 the same as a "deputy attorney general," and City and 17 County of Honolulu, their Department of Public Works 18 and Planning Department are combined into one, you 19 know, department. 20 So our staff took -- you know, they gave a 21 lot of consideration, and they did -- a lot of effort 22 went into the fact that -- you know, pulling out the 23 duties and responsibilities for each department and 24 kind of making sure that they, you know, were in the 25 same area of responsibility with, you know, the -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 49 1 throughout the State. So we kind of made that 2 uniformity. 3 CHR. ONO: Anyway, I know that this 4 document is going to be very handy when we start 5 deliberating, you know, more specifically. 6 And I think, if I'm not mistaken, that's the 7 end of our communications that we have received; so may 8 I have a motion to accept them and file these? 9 Is that what we do? 10 MS. SELF: Yes. 11 CHR. ONO: Second? Need a second. Okay, 12 seconded by Thomas. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Thomas Fratinardo. 14 CHR. ONO: Any discussion on that? If 15 not, all those say "Aye." 16 (All Commissioners responded affirmatively.) 17 CHR. ONO: Motion received and accepted. 18 MR. PAVAO: Comment. Bill, we really 19 appreciate this. This is really helpful. Thank you 20 very much. This is wonderful. 21 MR. BRILHANTE: Again, I would like to take 22 the credit because I'm just acting director, but I'm 23 going to have to give the credit to my staff. 24 CHR. ONO: Thank you, staff. So you guys 25 can show your appreciation more. So, if you have ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 50 1 nothing to do at night, yeah -- 2 MR. PAVAO: Read it, yeah. 3 CHR. ONO: -- good reading. Very 4 exciting. 5 Thomas? 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Question: The Fire 7 Commission came before us today, and each commissioner 8 of their board -- or I'm sorry -- each commissioner for 9 that board will act as that department's advocate. So 10 I'm asking what would be a good time for me to ask 11 that -- or present -- should I just ask before the end 12 of the meeting that -- would it be possible to have the 13 other commissioners that represent those salaries 14 that -- 15 CHR. ONO: Can I ask this, Thomas? You 16 know that plan that we created -- 17 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 18 CHR. ONO: -- over here? 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 20 CHR. ONO: And it's on the agenda. It 21 falls down here. Why don't we wait until we get to 22 that -- 23 MR. FRATINARDO: Gotcha. 24 CHR. ONO: -- and specifically discuss 25 where that fits in here. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 51 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 2 CHR. ONO: Okay. Sunshine Law. Okay. 3 So we thought it would be a great idea to have someone 4 give us a mini -briefing on the Sunshine Law. You know, 5 one thing we don't want to do is go through a whole 6 bunch of exercises over here and have our findings 7 compromised because we violated the Sunshine Law. And 8 following the Sunshine Law is not an easy thing, 9 especially if you're used to the old days like I am. 10 So, if you would, Amy, please. 11 MS. SELF: Thank you. 12 I'm only going to highlight sections that I 13 think would involve this commission. There's a lot of 14 stuff in the Sunshine Law that doesn't really apply to 15 you guys. 16 But the way I would like to start out is 17 explain that the whole reason behind Sunshine Law is to 18 have everything public, have meetings be held in front 19 of the public, so that it gives the public the 20 opportunity to participate with their government, how 21 policies are made, and whatever. What they don't want 22 to do is have back -door deals being done; so I find it 23 humorous that the legislature did not have themselves 24 have to comply with Sunshine Law. 25 So, it applies to boards and commissions ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 52 1 that -- and by the name "board," I'm talking about any 2 board that has -- you can call it -- it doesn't matter 3 what you call it: board, commission, community, 4 whatever, as long as it was created by law. And this 5 commission was actually created in the Charter, so 6 that's by law, and you have either advisory power or 7 decision-making power, or whatever; so you guys fit the 8 two-pronged definition because you actually make a 9 decision. There are other boards and commissions who 10 only give advice, but they are also covered, because it 11 covers advisory. 12 So the big issue is the permitted -- the 13 permitted interactions of the commission members. So 14 you start with the premise that everything -- the 15 general rule is everything must be done in front of the 16 public, but there are exceptions to that; and that's 17 what we call permitted interactions between 18 commissioners. 19 So, the first one is two board members can 20 discuss board business, things that will be coming 21 before the board or reasonably anticipated to come 22 before the board. Two members can discuss that outside 23 of the meeting that -- you know, meaning that it's 24 not -- you're not in the public eye, and you can 25 discuss board business as much as you want as long as ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 53 1 you don't commit to vote or try to tell each other how 2 to vote on a particular issue. So that's one permitted 3 interaction. 4 Another permitted interaction is what Tom 5 referred to at the last meeting, where he did the 6 acronym "PIG." That is a Permitted Interaction -- what 7 is it? 8 MR. FRATINARDO: Group. 9 MS. SELF: Group. 10 So what it is, is you guys were talking 11 about -- like, for instance, you are charged under the 12 Charter with -- the second part of your responsibility 13 is that the Salary Commission shall consult with those 14 boards and commissions which have appointing authority 15 for department heads. 16 So the discussion, I believe, at the last 17 meeting was kind of looking at that, because you were 18 talking about maybe it would be necessary to create a 19 committee to go investigate and gather information. 20 This might be one of the things that a Permitted 21 Interaction Group would maybe benefit the commission. 22 But that's something the commission needs to decide. 23 But you've got to keep in mind in order to do 24 that, it takes three meetings. And I still disagree 25 with OIP. I think it's ridiculous, but this is what ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 54 1 you have to do. So it takes one meeting where you 2 create the scope of what that committee is going to do, 3 and it has to be for a specific thing; it can't be 4 something that goes on forever. So you create a 5 committee; you describe the scope on the record; you 6 say which commissioners are going to be appointed to 7 that committee. So then that committee goes out and 8 does its investigation. 9 And then once you have something to report 10 back to the entire commission, then you have to get 11 that on the agenda, and then at that public meeting, 12 you -- the committee reports to the full commission its 13 findings. That's all that can happen at that meeting. 14 You cannot discuss it, the full commission cannot 15 discuss it, and you cannot take any action. So then at 16 a subsequent public meeting, that's when you can put it 17 back on the agenda again and the full commission can 18 discuss what was reported at the previous meeting, and 19 then if you want to take any action, you can take 20 action. 21 So, just keep in mind, if you are going to 22 create one of these committees for purposes of 23 gathering information or investigation or whatever, it 24 is going to take three meetings to do that. So some of 25 our boards and commissions run into deadline problems, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 55 1 so it's kind of difficult for them to do that. 2 Another way is -- and OIP would probably 3 disagree with me, but since it's already permitted 4 interaction for two members to discuss board business 5 outside of a meeting, I don't see any reason why two 6 members cannot go out, do the same thing, and then come 7 back, report, you can discuss, and take action. But it 8 always has to be on the agenda, and you have to have it 9 at a public meeting. 10 Some of the other things: There are other 11 exceptions to the general rule. Another exception to 12 the general rule is you can go into an executive 13 session to discuss matters with your attorney, which 14 would be me, and in order to do that, you have to take 15 a vote. Two-thirds of the membership has to -- 16 two-thirds of the members present have to vote in favor 17 of going into executive session. I don't know if that 18 will be necessary or not, but we'll approach that when 19 the time comes. 20 So, you go in to executive session -- it's 21 closed to the public -- and then, you know, you discuss 22 things with your attorney. If it's a matter of 23 something you need to vote on, then you have to vote 24 once you come out of executive session. You'll see 25 that on the council members agenda. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 56 1 MR. HIGGINS: Amy, sorry for interrupting. 2 On the executive session -- are there minutes 3 taken on executive session? 4 MS. SELF: Yes, there are minutes taken. You 5 always have to have minutes taken for every meeting. 6 But the minutes in the executive session are 7 confidential, not to be disclosed to the public until 8 such time as disclosing that would not cause a -- what 9 is it? I'm trying to think of the words. In other 10 words, once that issue has been resolved -- let's say 11 it's a court case in front of the -- we're going to the 12 county council to discuss settlement of the case. Once 13 that case is done, once it's settled, it's all pau, 14 then those minutes have to be made available if a 15 member of the public asks for it. 16 So that's why, you know, you want to stick to 17 specific things that can be discussed in executive 18 session. It's the duty/responsibilities of the 19 commissioners. That's what they're meeting with their 20 attorney about. 21 So, you don't want to go into executive 22 session and start talking about all this other stuff. 23 It's not something that really needs to be in executive 24 session, because those minutes will eventually be 25 available to the public. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 57 1 And since we're talking about minutes, some 2 of the other things that you needed to keep in mind is 3 the meeting agenda; and the notice of the meeting has 4 to be filed with the county clerk six calendar days 5 prior to the actual meeting. So, if you are going to 6 get things on the agenda, you got to make sure you 7 don't wait until, you know, the very last minute on the 8 sixth day, or whatever, or the first day of the six 9 days. Make sure you get -- give them enough time to 10 get this on the agenda, you know, because it's not -- 11 they have a lot to do when they start putting the 12 agenda together. And if it's not on the agenda, you 13 cannot discuss it. 14 And the agenda item has to be in enough 15 detail to allow the public to make a decision, "Do I 16 want to attend that or not? Is that something that's 17 of interest to me?" It doesn't have to be written like 18 in a book, but it does have to be in enough -- you have 19 to expand -- you know, have enough of -- 20 MR. BRILHANTE: Detail. 21 MS. SELF: Detail. Thank you very much. My 22 mind is -- I haven't had caffeine today. 23 MR. PAVAO: Question, Amy: Can an agenda be 24 amended? 25 MS. SELF: Yes. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 58 1 MR. PAVAO: During the meeting? 2 MS. SELF: Not -- well, okay. That's the 3 other thing. If you want to amend the agenda at the 4 meeting, you have to take a vote. There has to be a 5 two-thirds vote of the members to add it onto the 6 agenda, only if -- and here's the caveat -- only if it 7 will not affect -- let me see if I can see how they 8 described it in here. It can't be -- 9 MR. BRILHANTE: Significant. 10 MS. SELF: Significant importance? 11 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes, something like that. 12 MS. SELF: Or something to -- 13 CHR. ONO: In other words, no big 14 surprise. 15 MS. SELF: Right. It can't be something that 16 really needs to be in the meeting. Like if it's going 17 to affect the rights of the members of the public, then 18 no. 19 MR. PAVAO: And is there an opportunity to 20 comment? 21 MS. SELF: Yeah, because the public -- if you 22 wait until the meeting -- 23 MR. PAVAO: Right. 24 MS. SELF: -- to append your agenda, they 25 wouldn't know about it. So, that's why it's better to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 59 1 have it on the agenda before. 2 MR. PAVAO: But it can be amended as long as 3 it's not significant? 4 MS. SELF: Right. 5 CHR. ONO: They'll advise us. 6 MS. SELF: Yes. 7 CHR. ONO: Amy will advise us. 8 MR. BRILHANTE: Amy is very good counsel. 9 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 10 MS. SELF: The other way is like let's say 11 she's already filed the agenda, but there's still 12 another eight days or nine days before it has to be 13 filed with the clerk, so it's eight or nine days before 14 the meeting. If something comes up, then she could 15 actually file an addendum to the agenda with the clerk; 16 and that's fine, because it's before the deadline. 17 CHR. ONO: Question, Amy: Is it 18 permissible for us to send out an e-mail to the 19 commissioners, you know, asking them if they want any 20 item put on the agenda or not, and that is done before, 21 you know, the formal agenda? 22 MS. SELF: That should -- okay. I get a 23 little nervous when that happens. 24 CHR. ONO: That's why I asked. 25 MS. SELF: Here's the problem. I see no ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 60 1 problem if one commissioner calls you. It cannot be 2 more -- I mean, about a particular issue. 3 CHR. ONO: Okay. 4 MS. SELF: But then he cannot call another 5 commissioner, or you can't call another commissioner, 6 and ask, "Oh, what do you think about this?" you know, 7 because then that's considered a serial communication. 8 CHR. ONO: Okay. 9 MS. SELF: Same thing with e-mail. You 10 cannot have -- that's how the council got in trouble 11 one time is that one council member called the Chair, 12 and then that same council member that called the Chair 13 called another member of the county council and 14 discussed the same thing. So that's more than two 15 members discussing business outside of the meeting. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: In that situation, generally 18 what we're recommending, if the Chair is going to 19 solicit agenda items, we request that you send 20 individual e-mails to each of the members and then be 21 mindful of the serial communication aspect, you know, 22 just so that you don't violate that rule. 23 MR. PAVAO: In return. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, it says in the law 25 that it's two or more members, as long as we don't make ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 61 any agreement on voting. MS. SELF: No, it should just say two members. MR. FRATINARDO: In 92-2.5(e), two or more members of a board, but less than a quorum. MS. SELF: That's for the committee. MR. FRATINARDO: That's for the committee? MS. SELF: Yeah. MR. FRATINARDO: Okay, if you're creating a committee. MS. SELF: Yeah. CHR. ONO: So, for all purposes, if you have items that you want to go on the agenda or you think of something, just e-mail me directly. Okay? Or -- yeah, do it through me, I think. MR. BRILHANTE: And don't "cc" the rest of the commissioners. CHR. ONO: Yeah. MS. SELF: But I don't think he should even e-mail any of them. CHR. ONO: No, I'm not going to. MS. SELF: Should do directly with these guys. CHR. ONO: I see them enough. Yeah, we'll do our best to try and handle ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 62 1 this within the provisions of the law. 2 MS. SELF: Okay. 3 And the thing about -- let's see. So you got 4 your notice, your meeting agenda. The notice has to 5 state the date and time and location of the meeting. 6 It has to be posted also outside the meeting place, the 7 notice of the agenda, and then -- let's see -- if you 8 are going to -- we're not going to have 9 telecommunication, we're not going to have tele video, 10 okay, so I won't go into that. 11 The minutes -- and that's probably why we 12 have a court reporter here -- the minutes have to be 13 ready within 30 days after the meeting; so if a member 14 from the public asks for a copy of the minutes, they 15 have to be able to produce those in 30 days. If they 16 haven't been approved by the commission yet, then I've 17 always recommended that they put -- if they're going to 18 give it to the public, that they put a watermark over 19 each page so that the public knows that these minutes 20 have not been approved yet. 21 Let's see. For the minutes, the minutes do 22 not have to be verbatim, so you don't have to have a 23 transcript. Some of our boards do because they have 24 contested case hearings. This board is not required to 25 have a transcript of the meetings, but you have to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 63 1 describe, like, the gist of the discussions and any 2 kind of votes that were taken and how each member 3 voted; and if any board member requests certain 4 information to be in the minutes, then that needs to be 5 in the minutes. 6 The next thing I wanted to get into is public 7 testimony. You are required to accept public 8 testimony, orally and written. So, if someone submits 9 written testimony to you but they also want to testify 10 orally, you have to allow both. You can set a limit on 11 the amount of time for oral testimony, but the OIP has 12 never set a minimum; but the lowest I have ever seen is 13 three minutes, so I would advise not going below three 14 minutes, because that's been okay with OIP. 15 Permitted interactions. I'm trying to think 16 if I'm missing anything here. Do you think I've 17 covered it? 18 MR. BRILHANTE: I think you've got the bulk 19 of it. 20 CHR. ONO: Thomas, you're pretty akamai 21 with OIP. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, there's new stuff 23 coming into effect as far as -- well, I'm not going to 24 go into that. 25 MS. SELF: That would be July lst, 2018 -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 64 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Right. 2 MS. SELF: -- is when some of the new -- 3 there's a couple of new amendments to the statute. 4 MR. FRATINARDO: But I'm just reading -- and 5 for me, training is so important because of the lawsuit 6 factor and, just generally, Sunshine Law. It says, 7 "The new board packet section of the Sunshine Law 8 becomes a legal requirement for all boards starting on 9 July 1st, 2018, but I would recommend that you wait 10 until then to start doing it." And I guess they're 11 addressing people like Glynis, who put all the 12 materials together for us. 13 MS. SELF: That's available to the public 14 even now. I mean, if any member of the public wants a 15 copy of something that's discussed at these minutes -- 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Right. 17 MS. SELF: -- they can request it, and 18 they'll get it. 19 MR. BRILHANTE: And also, just to satisfy 20 that concern, Commissioner, is that the office of OIP 21 has come around each of the jurisdictions within the 22 past two or three months, and they have made a 23 presentation to the County of Hawaii which specifically 24 addresses the changes that would become effective in 25 July 2018. So that's something that, you know, each of ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 65 1 the counties' boards and commissions are, you know, 2 clearly aware of, and we've already started addressing 3 some of the issues that will be affected. 4 MR. PAVAO: I guess the bottom line is just 5 be mindful of the public's right -- 6 MS. SELF: Yes. 7 MR. PAVAO: -- to know. 8 MR. BRILHANTE: Exactly. 9 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: If you're going to err, err 11 on the side of caution. 12 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 13 CHR. ONO: Yeah, like I said, our 14 ultimate thing is we don't want to compromise what we 15 work on. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Exactly. 17 CHR. ONO: Anything else, Amy? 18 MS. SELF: I think that's it. If anything 19 else -- I mean, if anything ever comes up, I'll 20 always -- don't worry, I'll say something. 21 MR. PAVAO: E-mail us. 22 CHR. ONO: It's a little bit after 11:15. 23 I'm hoping that we can wrap this meeting up by noon, 24 but is there any reason for us to take a short break 25 now? Does anybody have to go to the lua or anything? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 661 1 MR. PAVAO: Good idea. 2 MR. HIGGINS: I do. 3 CHR. ONO: Okay, five minutes. 4 (Recess ensued.) 5 CHR. ONO: Okay. Next item on the agenda 6 is unfinished business, and I wanted to take this next 7 item, 7.A., out of order. Can we do that? 8 Can I do that? 9 MS. SELF: Yes. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. Let's move that "Draft 11 Plan" up as the first discussion item under 7.A. And 12 the reason is because the other two items, the update 13 on the new collective bargaining agreement and State 14 Compensation Plan, are part of this "Draft Plan" item; 15 so as part of our meeting agenda, something like this 16 was handed out. 17 And if you recall from our last meeting, we 18 decided to put together something that we would follow 19 as a plan to get through this process, because there's 20 so many different items. So what we tried to create 21 was a logical way of proceeding through this effort to 22 get to a final decision. And so, let me briefly go 23 through this. 24 There are four phases. One is the procedural 25 phase, which we will talk about the procedure and the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 67 1 process that we use to get from where we are today 2 hopefully through a final adoption of some kind of a 3 finding. 4 The second item would be the discovery phase. 5 So this is almost like lawyer talk, right, where you go 6 through discovery, you know, assembly of the facts and 7 whatever information is out there, to become part of 8 our decision. 9 Followed thereafter by developing our 10 criteria and what we intend to be looking for as a 11 third phase. 12 And the final will be alternative 13 analysis to determine, you know, specific alternatives 14 that we will be looking at. And lastly is adopting 15 that plan. 16 Hopefully, you have all had time to look at 17 this. And, anyway, what I would like to do is, if you 18 haven't, take a quick look at it now, and what we'll do 19 is we'll use this as a moment to make any adjustments 20 to this plan. What we're looking at is completing this 21 exercise by June of 2018; and it could be sooner or it 22 could be longer, but that's just the way that we 23 initially set it up. 24 And any comments? Is there anybody that 25 doesn't like this? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 68 1 MR. CAMPBELL: What's the -- we're already 2 dealing with the inverted salary problems we heard 3 about. And so what's the next schedule for union 4 contractual raises? What is the regular grace period 5 for County employees? 6 MR. BRILHANTE: As it relates to the 7 bargaining units that we are currently in agreement on, 8 HGEA and fire, there's a two-year window, so the 9 current contract will expire June 30th, 2019; with UPW, 10 they set it for a four-year window; and then finally, 11 SHOPO, police, they're proceeding with arbitration, so 12 they haven't come to an agreement yet with police. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: I guess what I'm trying to get 14 at is are all those employees going to get, by 15 contract, another raise in there to make the difference 16 between -- the disparaging we're talking about here 17 even greater than it is today by June? 18 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. 19 CHR. ONO: George, what I was going to 20 ask for -- and that's why I wanted to go through this 21 first, but there's another item on this agenda that's 22 an update to the collective bargaining -- 23 MR. CAMPBELL: What I'm trying to get to is 24 if we're going to take until June to get this done -- 25 and that's probably a reasonable time, you know -- are ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 69 1 we making the position that people have already, you 2 know, that -- the difference we have even worse by not 3 taking some action, some preliminary -- 4 CHR. ONO: You mean splitting out some 5 positions? 6 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 7 CHR. ONO: That allows for this in here, 8 you know. That's something we're going to decide. 9 Because there may be certain specific positions that we 10 may want to accelerate something to get it in place if 11 the information is there to do so -- 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. 13 CHR. ONO: -- so it doesn't lock us into 14 anything. 15 MR. CAMPBELL: All right. 16 CHR. ONO: Because I think there's some 17 urgency with, you know, maybe fire or police that may 18 be coming up. Especially if there's a vacancy coming 19 up and you have this salary inversion already in place, 20 it's something that this group may want to address 21 right away so that that applicant pool will be better 22 for that specific position. So, I don't see us as 23 limited in anything that we do. If we have to do it, 24 we'll do it. 25 MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 70 1 MR. PAVAO: Comment: I mean, are we going to 2 look at inversions only, or are we going to look at 3 equity among islands like what Mr. Masuda presented? 4 CHR. ONO: We're not limited to anything. 5 MR. PAVAO: Because I think that's just as 6 important as the inversions. 7 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. Part of what I see is 8 that, you know, we need to identify -- we have a good 9 start already on the positions that are 10 identified that -- first of all, it's the directors and 11 the deputies, first of all. And the weird ones are 12 council members, the legislative body, the council 13 members and administration, which would be the mayor 14 and the deputy. But those are primarily the positions 15 that I believe we need to address. Bill or someone had 16 mentioned we don't cover the deputies because there's 17 something built in -- 18 MR. BRILHANTE: Right. 19 CHR. ONO: -- that they can't make 90 20 percent. And that's taken care of by a different 21 process. Am I correct? 22 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. 23 And just to clarify that, you know, 24 unfortunately, some of the confusion may arise to the 25 fact that in the prosecutor's office and in the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 71 1 corporation counsel office, the deputies are your rank 2 and file staff. The number two in charge for the 3 prosecutors and corporation counsels are called either 4 first assistant or assistant. So let's not confuse 5 that with departmental deputies, you know. The 6 classification for a departmental deputy is, you know, 7 second in charge of the person in the department. 8 So that's -- just wanted that clarification 9 on the record. 10 CHR. ONO: If you prefer, we could hold 11 off on this and, you know, discuss it at the next 12 meeting. You can take a look at it, but, you know, 13 it's intended to be something that's kind of like just 14 a guideline so we can change it at anytime, anyplace. 15 MR. CAMPBELL: If we need something to get -- 16 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, my feeling on that is, 17 you know, we got Craig and then Amy. Are they going to 18 go back to their shop, and, you know, "We made this 19 presentation, and the board now knows that there hasn't 20 been a pay raise in ten years," and then you have the 21 fire guy, he's going to go back and say, "Hey, yeah, 22 you know, I talked to them," or "We're on the table," 23 and here we're talking about seven or eight months 24 more, although you're saying it's flexible. I just 25 don't want it to get around that, "Oh, these guys are ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 72 1 just sitting on their butts. They didn't meet for a 2 year" -- 3 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 4 MR. HIGGINS: -- and now, you know, everybody 5 is getting excited, "Well, they're meeting now, and 6 they know our problems," and we wait until June? That 7 just doesn't -- 8 MR. CAMPBELL: Doesn't sound -- 9 MR. HIGGINS: -- feel right to me. 10 CHR. ONO: I like my idea. I hear the 11 excitement in here about addressing this, and I think 12 we're all on the same page. So, like, I don't believe 13 we're locked into this. The sooner the better. And 14 one of the reasons for accelerating the meeting to 15 today was in the interest of getting into this. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Are we going to do this line 17 by line? I mean -- 18 CHR. ONO: No. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: No? But if there's 20 something in there, we can bring it up? 21 CHR. ONO: Anytime. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. Okay. 23 CHR. ONO: Anytime. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: In respect to collective 25 bargaining where you have an employee -- where the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 73 1 employees are -- they receive overtime, I don't -- 2 impact of overtime by subordinates. I think generally 3 that's something we shouldn't even have to worry about, 4 overtime. I'm worried more about middle management 5 that are getting the big salaries. 6 CHR. ONO: I can tell you why that's in 7 there. There are positions that are at a much lower 8 level because they receive overtime. 9 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay. 10 CHR. ONO: They make much more than the 11 department head -- 12 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure, sure. Okay. 13 CHR. ONO: -- by a lot. That's something 14 that would not be attractive to someone looking at 15 money -- 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 17 CHR. ONO: -- because it affects their 18 Retirement, too. 19 MR. PAVAO: Another comment, too. I think I 20 brought this up the last time. But we shouldn't be 21 afraid of the collective bargaining process if this 22 commission, instead of saying, "Okay, fire chief, 23 you'll get X -amount" -- instead of doing that, if we 24 put a caveat into our raises saying that, 25 "Hereafter" -- I don't know how to word it -- but ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 74 1 "Hereafter, the fire chief or police chief," or 2 whoever, "shall get a minimum percentage above the 3 highest paid." You know, then, that way, the Salary 4 Commission doesn't have to meet every time to adjust 5 salaries. 6 MR. HIGGINS: That's right. 7 MR. PAVAO: And I think that would be a much, 8 much more better way to do it to ensure that the 9 inversion never occurs again. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. And I would -- just 11 for my position, I would love to see these division 12 head salaries -- they're not only in parity with -- to 13 the collective bargaining, but like you just said, 14 every time they get a raise -- 15 MR. PAVAO: Right. Automatically. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Automatically. And where 17 this board doesn't have to meet but maybe twice a year 18 just to kind of fine-tune what's being done. 19 CHR. ONO: Exactly. 20 MR. PAVAO: The only thing, I'm not sure if 21 this Salary Commission has that authority or that 22 authority has to be built into the Charter. 23 MS. SELF: No, it's in the Charter already. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, we have the authority. 25 MR. PAVAO: We have the authority? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 75 1 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. Commission has the -- 2 MR. PAVAO: I know we have the authority to 3 set salaries, but do we have the authority to set a 4 percentage -- 5 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. 6 MS. SELF: Yeah. 7 MR. PAVAO: -- based on every -- 8 MR. BRILHANTE: Historically, there has 9 been -- this commission has set a scale for the 10 department heads and deputies based on seniority and 11 the like that, you know, allows for raises. 12 One of the things we provided -- and I -- 13 perfect opportunity to clarify -- 14 MS. SELF: Yeah. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: -- is, you know, at your 16 first meeting, there was some information provided 17 which referenced HRS 89C-3. It was the language that 18 discussed the excluded management salary, you know. 19 And I think there was some confusion. 20 The excluded managers, you know, in the 21 County, as, you know, we described during the last 22 meeting, is kind of like your mid-level managers, your 23 mid-level supervisors. And that salary, because 24 they're not considered to be collective bargaining 25 civil service employees, to a certain extent, they're ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 76 exempt, so that's exempt positions. Some of them, the HRS sets a provision that they're -- that although they're not within the collective bargaining units, that they get equal -- they get raises equal to whatever the collective bargaining members get, you know. So say a HGEA clerk gets a 2 percent raise. Then the same raise, 2 percent raise, would be afforded to that supervisor. MR. PAVAO: And that's something that we can build into our -- MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. And that was the primary reason that HRS section was included was purely for reference, something to look at, maybe a template to use. If the commission desires to set regular -- you know, set some type of mechanism for regular raises, annual raises or raises that will be tied into whatever the union members get. MR. FRATINARDO: Exactly. MR. PAVAO: Yeah. MR. BRILHANTE: So, that was the purpose of that. MR. CAMPBELL: Is that based on performance? MR. BRILHANTE: No. CHR. ONO: It's based on your position ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 77 1 level. 2 MR. CAMPBELL: So none of it is 3 performance-based? 4 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, I think that 5 performance-based, like, for example, the police 6 department and the fire department, yearly their 7 respective commissions will come -- they meet and they 8 give them a report card anyway, so -- and in general -- 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Give them a bad report card -- 10 MR. BRILHANTE: Just -- 11 MR. CAMPBELL: -- get a raise anyway? 12 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah, just to clarify, none 13 of the unions recognize performance-based -- 14 MR. CAMPBELL: I know unions. Sorry, I 15 didn't clarify. My question was for the people that 16 this commission would be setting salaries for. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: I think that's a -- 18 CHR. ONO: Their bosses. 19 MR. BRILHANTE: That's a slippery slope, 20 because -- 21 MS. SELF: There's a mechanism you use to -- 22 MR. HIGGINS: Performance. 23 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah, to grade. 24 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm just asking the question. 25 MR. HIGGINS: Good question. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 78 1 MS. SELF: The point that you're talking 2 about, that you guys are charged with -- 3 MR. FRATINARDO: That's a good question. 4 What do we get for your -- 5 MS. SELF: Like the department heads are 6 appointed by the mayor, confirmed by the council. 7 MR. CAMPBELL: I understand that. 8 MS. SELF: And some of the commissions are 9 appointing, yeah. 10 MR. HIGGINS: Bill, can we right now state, 11 without any hesitation, that we are in compliance with 12 the latest agreements? In other words, are we at 13 parity right now? I mean, I keep referring back to 14 the -- these guys didn't get a pay raise for ten years. 15 That tells me that we're not on parity with the state 16 statute that says we must be. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: The state statute that 18 requires that executive management to be in parity with 19 their subordinates, you know, their union counterparts, 20 in that regard, we are. 21 MR. HIGGINS: We are. 22 MR. BRILHANTE: The County is in compliance. 23 Excluded management compensation package was just 24 circulated and approved retro back to July lst of 2017, 25 this year, which was -- it coincided with the latest ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 79 1 union pay raises. 2 MR. HIGGINS: Terrific. 3 MR. BRILHANTE: As relates to the excluded 4 management, the County of Hawaii is in parity. As to 5 the department heads and deputies, some of them haven't 6 gotten raises in ten years. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 8 MR. BRILHANTE: So my answer to that question 9 would be probably not, but it's subjective and it's at 10 your prevalence. 11 MR. FRATINARDO: After the last meeting we 12 had, there was a lot of negative comments -- 13 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 14 MR. FRATINARDO: -- in the Hawaii Tribune - 15 Herald about giving these people pay raises, but I 16 think after the letter received from Ms. Martin and 17 from Craig Masuda, I would ask that -- you know, I 18 heard a comment saying, well, if these people were to 19 come up, maybe it would appear they were pandering for 20 more money. That's not the case at all. They haven't 21 received a pay raise in so long, I think it's incumbent 22 upon us. 23 But, also, I think what wasn't mentioned is 24 that when you have a new administration come in, I 25 think that we, as a Salary Commission, need to be ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 80 1 behind -- that new administration -- that mayor needs 2 to be able to put together the best administration that 3 he possibly can with the most qualified people. So, he 4 should be able to put out -- offer these people a 5 competitive wage to attract these people to that 6 administration. 7 MR. DOW: Absolutely. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: So we need to consider that 9 also. 10 CHR. ONO: You know what I'm starting to 11 hear? In my mind, I'm thinking we should do a two-part 12 thing. First we should try and take care of the 13 immediate problem at step one and set a salary that can 14 be implemented as soon as possible to take care of this 15 inversion. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 17 CHR. ONO: All the immediate stuff. 18 Then we'll go into part two to address what's 19 going to happen -- 20 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 21 CHR. ONO: -- in the outside. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: How we keep this from 23 happening again. 24 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: Because there's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 81 1 discussions -- I don't know; if we have a discussion 2 with someone who is not part of this commission from 3 the community, if it's a concern to a particular 4 commission member if they were privy to some 5 information, could we go into an executive session 6 about it? 7 MS. SELF: You mean -- 8 MR. FRATINARDO: About, say -- there's a -- I 9 won't even speculate. 10 MS. SELF: Well, you all can speak to people 11 in the community. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay. 13 MS. SELF: That's not a problem, as long as 14 you -- you guys are the ones that are covered by the 15 Sunshine Law. Not a single member in the community. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: And I think that's the 18 justification for why there's such a broad base, you 19 know, island -wide geographic, you know. You guys all 20 come from different -- 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 22 MR. BRILHANTE: -- parts of the island. The 23 expectation is you will be talking to your 24 constituents. 25 MR. CAMPBELL: Hopefully. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 82 1 MR. BRILHANTE: And you will bring that to 2 the table when you have discussions regarding a 3 particular item. You know, so I think that's the basis 4 behind that. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, just for example, I 6 know there's going to be judgeships available, and 7 attorneys that have a lot of seniority in the County 8 may want to -- very qualified attorneys may apply for 9 those judgeships. We might lose people -- 10 MS. SELF: We have lost people that way -- 11 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 12 MS. SELF: -- this last year. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: So, we can't be kicking the 14 can down the road anymore. Like you just said, I 15 think, it's imperative that we take some action. 16 CHR. ONO: With that said, can we put an 17 agenda item on for the next meeting to begin the 18 discussion about that immediate -- you know, I don't 19 know what it is we're going to do yet, but we need to 20 have it on the agenda. 21 MR. BRILHANTE: Yep. We can put an agenda 22 item that can relate to discussion regarding -- 23 CHR. ONO: This would be a priority 24 adjustment to take place -- 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 83 1 CHR. ONO: -- as soon as we are able to 2 do so. 3 MR. CAMPBELL: And if we do that -- 4 MR. PAVAO: Can you make sure that it's not 5 only inversion, but also equity among islands? Like -- 6 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we can do that. 7 We're -- 8 MR. PAVAO: Lowest paid corp. counsel. I 9 can't believe that. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: And we're also lowest paid 11 county council. 12 CHR. ONO: One second. Florence wants to 13 say something. 14 MS. IKEDA: On many of the items, I noticed 15 that we're kind of going around and 'round. Is it 16 legal, like, say, when we have one subject and 17 everybody give their written comments, and somebody 18 compile them, and then we have an open discussion, then 19 we can say like item 1, item 2? You know, like maybe 20 "John said this, and he believes in this, and Mary said 21 in item 2," but we have it all written, and somebody 22 had compiled them, and we come and we discuss them 23 openly? Can that be done instead of -- I feel like 24 we're saying -- some things we're just going 'round and 25 'round in circles, you know. So, is it legal to do ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 that? 2 MS. SELF: Yeah, you could send your comments 3 to Glynis, who can put that together for the next 4 meeting. 5 MR. HIGGINS: Well, this is only our second 6 meeting, so we are to be expected to thrash around a 7 little bit; but I think the chairman's idea of a 8 two-point adjustment to this, basically the near-term 9 problems to solve, and then we want to have a legacy 10 that continues beyond this meeting that takes care of 11 this kind of problem forever. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: Exactly. 13 MR. HIGGINS: So, I think as we move towards 14 that, we're going to probably thrash around a little 15 bit more, but -- 16 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 17 MR. HIGGINS: -- but we'll get it. 18 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you. 19 CHR. ONO: We seem to be focused. 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Get that in the -- if we can 21 put that on the agenda for the next meeting, is it just 22 for discussion, Amy? Do we have to have three meetings 23 if we wanted to make a decision, or -- 24 MS. SELF: No. You -- 25 MR. CAMPBELL: -- the whole group could ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 85 1 make -- so it could be on the agenda for discussion an 2 approval? 3 MS. SELF: Oh, yes, because that's what you 4 want. You want a public meeting. 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 6 MS. SELF: You guys can discuss everything 7 that's on the agenda. That's the whole purpose behind 8 Sunshine Law is to do it in the public. 9 CHR. ONO: We have a good reason to 10 complete this sooner than in July, because she's going 11 to have some knees replaced, so -- yeah, so this would 12 be early next year. So, this would be great if we could 13 get something in right away. 14 MR. FRATINARDO: So, the question I had 15 earlier about how we have to go through -- or we go 16 through -- each commission, the head of each 17 commission, chairman for each commission for each 18 department, I would encourage more -- not just from 19 corp. counsel, the attorneys, I would encourage -- I 20 would hope that we have people from Public Works and 21 different divisions that would give us their mana'o on 22 what they think as far as -- 23 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: -- shortages. 25 CHR. ONO: In preparation for the next ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 86 1 meeting, what I'll do is put together something that we 2 can follow for discussion and at least begin the 3 discussion of, you know, what they're getting paid now 4 and put it on a piece of paper so we can talk about and 5 what kind of target we're looking at for immediately. 6 And then we'll have to determine if there's going to be 7 an effective date. Is it now? Is it retroactive? 8 That kind of thing. 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 10 MS. SELF: He's referring to the section 11 under the Charter that says that the Salary Commission 12 shall consult with those boards and commissions which 13 have appointing authority for department heads. 14 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. 15 MS. SELF: So, you could even invite the chair 16 of each of those boards and commissions to your 17 meeting. 18 CHR. ONO: We should do that. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: That's what I was going -- 20 that's what I was -- 21 CHR. ONO: Okay. 22 MR. HIGGINS: I don't know about that. 23 MR. PAVAO: Me, too. 24 MR. HIGGINS: I don't know about that. I 25 think it's unnecessary right now. They're all going to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 87 1 come in and say the same thing. We've got the picture 2 loud and clear. We need to take action. 3 MR. CAMPBELL: We need to take some action. 4 MR. PAVAO: We know where we stand. 5 CHR. ONO: I was wondering whether you're 6 getting the picture or not, but I guess you are. 7 That's good. I think we collectively understand what 8 the situation is, and, therefore, very appropriate to 9 take care of something sooner rather than later. 10 MR. DOW: Do we need to go on record with a 11 vote regarding whether we think that salaries and 12 benefits have a reasonable relationship to compensation 13 in the public and private sectors? 14 MS. SELF: No, I don't. 15 MR. DOW: No? 16 MS. SELF: It's not really an action. 17 CHR. ONO: I think it's incumbent on us 18 to produce something -- 19 MS. SELF: Yeah. I think you just -- 20 CHR. ONO: -- that can withstand the 21 scrutiny -- 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 23 MS. SELF: Your responsibility per the 24 Charter is very narrow. And so, I think this is what -- 25 once you come up with something, then you would need a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 vote to take that action. 2 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, the facts and 3 circumstances are out there: They haven't received a 4 pay raise in a really, really long time. And how do 5 you retain employees when they're doing X -amount of 6 hours and they're having -- how do they support 7 themselves, especially where -- Ms. Martin, who is a 8 new attorney coming in, having to pay all these school 9 loans off, but they're working here? It's like, "Oh, 10 well, accept it. That's the way life is." No. They 11 need to be compensated for the amount of work that 12 they're doing. 13 MR. PAVAO: I think we all agree that they 14 should be. 15 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah. 16 CHR. ONO: So, allow me to work with Human 17 Resources on putting together an informational sheet 18 that we can work off of to be more specific. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you. 20 CHR. ONO: Okay? 21 MR. HIGGINS: Terrific. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, that would be a really 23 good thing, so we can make some firm decision and then 24 work on, as you suggested, the long-term plan. 25 CHR. ONO: A question on the meeting ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 89 1 locations. Does this group want to move it around the 2 island or just keep it here in Hilo? I know that -- 3 I'm probably speaking for the staff. It's probably 4 easier if it's here in Hilo. 5 Jamie? Jennifer? 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Does it say it has to be 7 somewhere? 8 MS. SELF: No. 9 CHR. ONO: I just need to throw it out 10 there, because if you're all happy this way, it's fine, 11 I think, with most of us. 12 MR. DOW: Can we do -- excuse me. We can do 13 teleconference from Kona if we have one member -- 14 CHR. ONO: No. I think, Harold, we 15 talked about that last time. There's a reason why we 16 couldn't do that. 17 MS. SELF: It's difficult to get locations 18 that have video conferencing available. So you would 19 have to -- Glynis to work that out in advance. West 20 Hawaii -- 21 MR. HIGGINS: I like the eyeball -to -eyeball 22 stuff. 23 MS. SELF: It would have to be the council 24 room, right? 25 CHR. ONO: So, leave it here? Okay with ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 90 1 that? 2 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 3 MR. PAVAO: I have a different opinion. I 4 think -- I think we owe it to the public to at least go 5 to Kona someplace where they have a lot of government 6 employees that can come, because for someone to travel 7 from Kona to here to testify or present something, it's 8 pretty tough. I think we have an obligation to at 9 least go to that side of the island. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. Do you want to leave it 11 up to the chair as to -- 12 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 13 CHR. ONO: -- if that pops up, we can 14 schedule accordingly? 15 MR. PAVAO: Yep. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. 17 MS. SELF: As long as the council room is 18 available. 19 CHR. ONO: Glynis is good about that. 20 MS. SELF: Doesn't the Planning Department 21 have a conference room that has video conferencing too? 22 So, that's two places that we can choose. 23 MR. CAMPBELL: About the same size as this 24 one. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: So do we have to introduce a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 91 1 motion regarding your plan, your draft plan? 2 CHR. ONO: I'm not sure. Do we need a 3 motion? We're not adopting it. 4 MS. SELF: No. 5 CHR. ONO: Using it as a guideline. 6 MR. CAMPBELL: It's just a guideline, so 7 shouldn't need a motion. 8 MR. PAVAO: The other thing, we talking about 9 teleconference, but teleconference is dangerous because 10 if somebody cannot make it, you got to cancel the 11 meeting. 12 MS. SELF: No, what you have to do is, on the 13 agenda, you have to indicate which locations that the 14 meeting is going to be video conferenced with. 15 MR. PAVAO: Right, right. 16 MS. SELF: And if you're going to have 17 members at those locations, you have to just indicate 18 that there will be commissioners -- 19 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, but our current situation 20 where you lose reception; because you lose reception, 21 you -- 22 MS. SELF: Yeah, if you lose the audio, you 23 have to stop. 24 MR. PAVAO: That's dangerous. That's too 25 dangerous. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 92 MR. CAMPBELL: But the council does it all the time. It's doable. MS. SELF: You just have to recess until they get it back up. MR. PAVAO: Risky, though. I would rather do it person-to-person. MR. CAMPBELL: Just leave it to the prerogative of the chair. MR. FRATINARDO: And now that we're basically all in agreement as far as the seriousness of this, what I always -- life comes into a factor sometimes, or things unavoidable, circumstances and so forth, and you're going to work on a sheet with Bill, but if something happens where someone gets sick or -- it's going to flow right to the co-chair? MS. SELF: Yeah. MR. FRATINARDO: Right. So I'm -- continuity. CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. MR. FRATINARDO: So we can -- so there's no like speed bumps, so we can actually get this -- CHR. ONO: No. But for now, I'll just take the lead, and if something happens to me, I hope it's not fatal -- MR. FRATINARDO: Subject to -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 93 1 MS. SELF: So, regardless of whether you want 2 video conferencing or you want to go there in person, 3 they're still going to have to find an available room. 4 So, you could just talk to Glynis about finding -- 5 CHR. ONO: I have a couple dates which I 6 think she touched bases with everybody here, and so let 7 me see. That would be kind of jumping ahead, but at 8 the next meeting, we probably would be talking about -- 9 we did touch on collective bargaining and the state 10 compensation plan. I would like to suggest we include 11 the discussion on how EM works, the executive 12 management positions. 13 I can tell you from personal experience that 14 I've been both. I have been an appointed official and 15 an EM, and I used to tell -- when I was appointed, I 16 used to tell my EM guys that worked under me, I said, 17 "I want to be just like you," because, you know, they 18 were getting paid more than me; and then when there was 19 a salary adjustment, they would get it right away. So 20 I -- and then so when I became one, I said, "I got my 21 wish. I'm just like you." 22 MR. PAVAO: And you know that's a good 23 system. 24 CHR. ONO: It is. 25 MR. PAVAO: EM system. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 94 1 CHR. ONO: That has merit for deeper 2 discussion here. 3 MR. PAVAO: I guess that's what this 4 commission should be looking at, that same type of -- 5 CHR. ONO: Absolutely. 6 MR. PAVAO: -- increase. 7 CHR. ONO: That would be the part, too. 8 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 9 CHR. ONO: Okay. 10 MS. SELF: So, if you could -- yeah, I know 11 Bill was explaining that whole thing to me, so you 12 could have that on the agenda to have -- 13 CHR. ONO: I will. I will. Thank you, 14 Amy. 15 MS. SELF: -- yeah, an explanation. 16 CHR. ONO: Next meeting date was -- when 17 we looked at the calendar, I think it was December the 18 13th or the 14th. 19 MR. PAVAO: What happened in November? 20 Didn't we meet in November? 21 CHR. ONO: Yeah, different things 22 conflicting. 23 MS. SELF: Do you have a meeting in place for 24 November? 25 MR. FRATINARDO: I would love to see us meet ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 95 1 in November. 2 CHR. ONO: I think she was having trouble 3 finding a meeting place. 4 MR. PAVAO: You can come to my house. 5 CHR. ONO: And there's people traveling, 6 too, so that's what's going on. 7 MS. SELF: Do we have a quorum? 8 CHR. ONO: Yes. Yeah. She's already 9 checked on that with everybody. Is that date open for 10 everybody, December -- 11 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, December I'm here, 12 because from the 12th to the -- 13 CHR. ONO: I think she did check all the 14 members. We're expecting a new member, too. His name 15 is Nelson Harano, will be an additional member to this 16 commission. 17 Okay. That being said, I think we're pretty 18 much ready for the next meeting. It's going to be a 19 good one. I think we should probably plan on a little 20 bit longer than our usual session. Looks like we're 21 going to do a little bit more work, so we'll see how 22 much time we have to set aside. Might have to go a 23 little bit longer. 24 MR. CAMPBELL: Did you pick specifically one 25 of those days or not? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 961 CHR. ONO: 13th. MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. MR. HIGGINS: Wednesday. MS. SELF: December 13th? CHR. ONO: December 13th, yeah. MR. PAVAO: Location to be determined or... CHR. ONO: It's one of these two rooms. MR. PAVAO: It's going to be in Hilo? CHR. ONO: Yeah. Okay. Florence, you want to add anything? MS. IKEDA: About your concern for Kona, we could do like some of the commissions do, go once a year and have a meeting in Kona once a year. CHR. ONO: We'll do that. MR. PAVAO: Yeah, I think they have a right to go, people on that side. CHR. ONO: We want Mr. Higgins to know what it is to travel a short distance. We don't want him wearing out our Saddle Road. MR. HIGGINS: I'm worried about my tires. MR. FRATINARDO: Then we can all go to lunch at Costco afterwards. CHR. ONO: Hilo people, they love to go to Costco. MR. HIGGINS: Can't beat it. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 97 1 CHR. ONO: Okay. Is there anything else, 2 then? We're about ready to adjourn the meeting. 3 MS. SELF: Dr. Dow? 4 MR. DOW: I have a question. 5 CHR. ONO: Sorry. 6 MR. DOW: I'm a little bit confused by this 7 handout from HR. There appears to be some positions 8 that don't apply to this commission, and I'm wondering 9 if there are positions that do apply that are not on 10 this list. For instance, is the managing director a 11 salary that we set? 12 CHR. ONO: I believe it is. 13 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yes. Yes. Everything -- I 14 don't know what sheet you're looking at. I didn't 15 prepare that, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. 16 MR. DOW: And we have no function relating to 17 the Civil Defense? 18 MS. SAKAMOTO: Civil Defense is civil 19 service, so that's determined in the EMCP pay scale. 20 CHR. ONO: So, Dr. Dow, what we'd do 21 is -- 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: If you look at -- 23 CHR. ONO: The sheet of paper. 24 MS. SAKAMOTO: If you look at this chart and 25 then you look at where it says "Hawai'i," those are the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 98 1 salaries that you folks set, except for the Water 2 Board. 3 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we'll set it up so that 4 we identify every single position that we need to 5 discuss. 6 MS. SAKAMOTO: There's a salary in that. 7 That's what you folks are responsible for. 8 CHR. ONO: Okay. And all the information 9 about each of the positions. So, I don't know how many 10 there are or how big the sheet is supposed to be, but I 11 don't think there's that many positions that we need to 12 discuss. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, we're the lowest of 14 everybody. 15 MS. SAKAMOTO: I'm not sure what your 16 priorities are, if you mentioned -- somebody mentioned 17 like vacant positions. We do have some vacant director 18 positions -- 19 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we'll -- 20 MS. SAKAMOTO: -- that kind of stuff. 21 CHR. ONO: We're going to do those, too. 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: So, we can help you identify 23 those. 24 CHR. ONO: We're going to do all of them 25 instead of piecemeal. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 99 1 Okay. And on these books here, typically 2 what I've been doing is just come and pick it up here, 3 but are the members -- can they take it home? 4 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. Right. Good question. 5 Because I want to read some of this stuff at home. 6 MS. SELF: I think maybe you take the 7 information. Just take the information out and give 8 her back these. Because she reuses these. 9 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yes, she does. 10 MS. SELF: What about the binders, though? 11 Does she reuse the -- 12 MS. KAILIPAKA: Binders, she normally -- 13 MS. MARTINES: She loads them for your next 14 meeting. 15 MS. SELF: Oh, so she wants them back after 16 the meeting. Okay. 17 MR. PAVAO: Says "Please Return." 18 MS. SELF: Take the information out and take 19 it with you. 20 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, leave the folders. 21 MS. SELF: Well, she's going to do it for 22 you. Oh, "For your own information." Yeah. 23 MR. FRATINARDO: Mine says you can keep it. 24 (Overlapping discussion.) 25 CHR. ONO: Okay. So we can take things ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 100 1 out, then? 2 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 3 CHR. ONO: Okay, great. I'm going to 4 take things out. 5 MR. PAVAO: Just leave the folder, yeah? 6 MS. SAKAMOTO: I'm sorry, can I just say one 7 more thing? Because I don't want to confuse you folks. 8 We added in the deputies for the corporation 9 counsel and prosecuting attorney, but you folks don't 10 set that salary. 11 MS. SELF: Right. 12 MS. SAKAMOTO: That's the only one that you 13 wouldn't set in that column, because that's by Charter. 14 And then you folks set the prosecuting attorney and 15 corporation counsel, and then they can set their deputy 16 salary according to that. 17 MR. PAVAO: Can you increase your budget so 18 we can take these folders home? 19 CHR. ONO: So, Jennifer, I'll be working 20 through your department. I don't know who I'll be 21 working with. 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: You can work through Bill. 23 CHR. ONO: Okay. 24 MS. SAKAMOTO: And then Bill will ask us to 25 help with whatever information you folks are ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 101 1 requesting. 2 CHR. ONO: Okay. 3 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yeah. 4 MR. PAVAO: You guys did a good job. 5 CHR. ONO: Any additional items? If not, 6 motion to adjourn? 7 MR. HIGGINS: So moved. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: Moved. 9 MS. IKEDA: Seconded. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. Everybody wants to go. 11 Moved and seconded adjourned. All in? 12 (All commissioners responded affirmatively.) 13 CHR. ONO: Aye. Okay. Good-bye. Thank 14 you. 15 (The meeting adjourned at 12:15 p.m.) i[ 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 1021 1 STATE OF HAWAII 2 ss. 3 COUNTY OF HAWAII 4 5 I, TERI HOSKINS, a certified court 6 reporter in the State of Hawaii, do hereby certify 7 that the foregoing pages are a true and correct 8 transcription of the proceedings in the above matter. 9 10 11 12 13 ( 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Dated this 7th day of November, 2017. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (80 8) 933-9800 Ms. Teri Hoskins, Certified Court Reporter, transcribed the aforementioned proceedings of the Salary Commission at its meeting held on October 27, 2017. Glynis Yamada, Secretary, Salary Commission, had incorporated some minor formatting/housekeeping revisions throughout the transcript. Respectfully Submitted, kkowit.., „odenadid Glynis Yamada, Secretary A''ROVE I• Hugh Y. Ono, P. E., Chair Salary Commission PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM SALARY COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HILO, HAWAII Date: ' (` �-1 7( 7 (Please print clearly) Support Oppose Comment Please list the item(s)you will be speaking on: Communication No. OR Subject/Topic: 2-c p�_ 5-�- ("I f F- S Name: 1200 F--,e f- i Representing: (Please indicate whether Self or Organization) ***For official use only: Speaker No. 0 PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM SALARY COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HILO, HAWAII Date: '11" ! 17 (Please print clearly) Support Oppose Comment Please list the item(s) you will be speaking on: Communication No. OR Subject/Topic: 4„y,4' ex/47 7r (% ply Name: e'4/6- de-f t tlW Representing: (Please indicate whether Self or Organization) ***For official use only: Speaker No. (.2_--) Statement to the Salary Commission Robert Becker Chair,Hawai'i County Fire Commission October 27,2017 Good morning commissioners. My name is Robert Becker and I am the chair of the Hawai'i County Fire Commission. Thank you for the opportunity to make a statement before the Salary Commission today. As you continue your fiscal investigation and make decisions on county agency head and deputy pay inequities,I ask that you of course look at pay inversion,but I also ask that you take more into account than just pay inversion. Executives in public service deserve pay that is commensurate with the knowledge,skills and abilities required by the position. In many county departments,counterpart positions and/or skill sets can be found in private industry. That can't be said for public safety positions,fire and police. Counterpart positions can only be found in local, state and federal fire and police positions within the state and on the mainland. Union fire contract negotiators look at mainland fire department pay levels for comparable skills and experience in setting their compensation requests,and we should do the same for executives. HFD is the second largest department in the state in terms of paid staffing but it is the most complex in terms of diversity of required knowledge and skills. HFD is the only department in the state that staffs and manages a paramedic based Emergency Medical Services (EMS) program as part of the paid workforce of 530 personnel dispersed throughout 19 fire stations in the community. HFD is considered a "combination department" that includes a volunteer firefighter program housed in 20 volunteer stations with approximately 130 volunteer firefighters. Additionally the department has heavy rescue,hazardous materials,water rescue,ocean safety,aviation,wildland fire, prevention and inspection,training,and community paramedicine programs. The department's response area is larger than all of the other fire departments in the state combined,almost the size of the state of Connecticut. Through the first nine months of this year,HFD has already responded to 18,630 calls,a 5.3% increase from the comparable period last year. I realize that the Salary Commission only sets the pay for the chief and deputy chief,but the problem goes deeper than that and the current and future health of the department is dependent on adequately compensated,highly skilled individuals in leadership positions. The salary information you received for county executives,deputies and subordinates only tells part of the fire department's story. Current payroll inversion in the fire department actually starts between the fire captains and the battalion chiefs. The pay bands are so compressed that captains take a pay cut to promote to a battalion chief position. Fire department pay is also based on additional contractual pay beyond base pay. Not shown on the information you received is contract guaranteed rank for rank emergency overtime that averages $15,000 a year per captain to cover for those on vacation and sick leave. Rescue and Hazmat captains also receive 8.126% additional pay ATT. A over base per the contract. Personnel receive holiday pay whether or not they work the holiday. In the last promotion cycle for multiple open battalion chief positions,only two candidates remained after others eligible either didn't apply or dropped out during the process over the pay inversion issue. At the operations battalion chief level,they work 12 overtime shifts per year guaranteed by contract,approximately $20,000. Bureau battalion chiefs receive $4200 in Bureau Opportunity Incentive pay guaranteed by contract as do the assistant chiefs. A short look back in time is also appropriate when discussing executive pay. In 2005,the fire department was reorganized and titles were changed because of increased complexity and growth of the department. Although the duties didn't change,assistant chiefs were renamed battalion chiefs and were downgraded from EM 07 to EM 05. New assistant chief positions were established at the EM 07 level supervising multiple battalion chiefs and other programs. At the time it was stated that this situation was only temporary but the issue was never addressed. There is a proposal currently before the mayor that would upgrade the assistant chief positions from EM 05 to EM 07 and raise their pay to$132,744 plus contractual pay already in place. Also before the mayor is a proposal to upgrade the battalion chiefs from EM 03 to EM 05 upping the pay to $122,748 plus contractual pay already in place. If these rectifications of past inequities are enacted,the inversion for the chief and deputy chief will be much worse. In 2016,26 fire department employees at the rank of captain or above made more than the chief,21 of them were captains. Thirty-one employees made more than the deputy chief,26 of them were captains. These figures don't include include captains that retired in 2016 who may have had lump sum payments for unused vacation time. Both the fire chief and deputy fire chief positions work non-compensated overtime during emergency call-outs and public engagements as I,and I'm sure many of you,have personally observed. The fire chief and deputy fire chief are the only HFD positions not compensated with overtime pay. One of the reasons the Fire Commission was established was to take the politics out of the appointment of the chief. The chief is not a political appointee,he is appointed by the Fire Commission. The chief and deputy chief aren't in their positions just for the period of a single administration; they are lifelong civil servants,serving the people of Hawai'i County for their entire professional careers. Attaining these positions is the culmination of decades of dedication,professional development and plain hard work. As all of you are aware,state law requires that applicants for executive positions including the fire chief be a state resident for one year to qualify for the position. This requirement eliminates over 99.5% of the population of the US; literally thousands of potentially highly qualified candidates are ineligible. Couple that with the fact that all of the fire departments in the state are on the same retirement system,the chances that a current or retired chief officer in the state would apply for the Hawai'i County chief position are ml because they would take a cut in pay or lose retirement compensation. To have a robust and highly qualified applicant pool when Chief Rosario retires,we have to "grow our own" within the department and to do this we need to have to have competitive pay. The Hawai'i County Fire Commission has created an accurate and comprehensive position description for the chief that we revalidate every year. We also hold the chief accountable through established performance elements that enable us to fairly judge the chief's performance with as little subjectivity as possible. We work with the chief to review the department's specific program of work for every calendar year and offer input based on commission member and public input. I have provided the chief's position description for you today. I urge you to review his position description,the aforementioned program of work,his performance elements,and other documents including but not limited to the HFD organizational structure charts to help further understand the scope and complexity of the chief's responsibilities. In closing,consider these figures for comparative purposes: the chief of the smaller and less diverse Maui Fire Department is paid $151200 per year,and the chief of the larger but less complex Honolulu Fire Department is paid $185,112. In my research,it was difficult to find fire chief positions in California that were paid less than $200,000 per year,and many of them had total pay and benefits packages worth$300,000 per year or more,sometimes a great deal more. Even the chief of a small city like Alameda, California for example,with only four fire stations and 87 personnel,paid their chief $243,000 with a total pay and benefits compensation package worth over$363,000 in 2016. I'm not suggesting that the HFD chief be paid at this level,but it must be understood that these figures are not atypical within the fire executive community. In summary,we need to pay our chief and deputy chief as the highly skilled professionals they are. It is paramount for the future of the depai tient to make senior positions attractive to the rank and file so that the "best and brightest" want to compete for,and promote up through the ranks into these positions. If we don't fairly compensate our executive leaders,the whole of the fire department and the department's ability to serve the public will suffer over time. Thank you for your consideration today; please don't hesitate to contact me for additional documentation or if I can be of further assistance. County of Hawai'i Fire Chief 2017 Position Description Appointed Position by the Hawaii Fire Commission $130,818 Annually DUTIES SUMMARY: Manages the Hawai'i Fire Department with strong vision,goal setting and strategic leadership in fire protection and suppression,pre-hospital emergency medical services,land and sea search and rescue,hazardous materials response,ocean safety,and fire prevention and public education for the County of Hawai'i;oversees the comprehensive firefighting,pre-hospital emergency medical services,search and rescue,aviation,ocean safety, volunteer fire,and hazardous materials programs;administers support services including auxiliary services, budget,fire prevention,and training for the department; responsible for all of the activities necessary to plan for, finance,direct,maintain,evaluate,and continuously optimize the organization for the efficient and effective delivery of all fire and pre-hospital emergency medical services under his/her authority; is the primary fire and emergency management advisor to the Mayor, Managing Director and County Council,and reports to the Hawai'i Fire Commission; performs other related duties as required. ESSENTIAL DUTIES INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE FOLLOWING: • Oversees the planning,direction,coordination,and is responsible for county-wide firefighting,search and rescue,aviation management,ocean safety,volunteer fire,hazardous materials, and pre-hospital emergency medical services operations through subordinate supervisors. • Oversees the planning,direction,and coordination of activities for auxiliary services,fire prevention, training,and pre-hospital emergency medical services bureaus of the department through subordinate supervisors. • Allocates resources for the most effective utilization of finite resources to meet strategic plan objectives while engaging cooperating agencies,volunteers,and the public. • Oversees all commands for extensive,complex,or catastrophic fire,search and rescue,hazardous materials or other emergency incidents as required. • Promotes and ensures implementation and adherence to a department-wide safety program in compliance with OSHA, HIOSH and NFPA standards. • Ensures effective management of all-risk incidents through department compliance with NIMS and ICS management principles common to all government agencies to ensure the immediate integration of resources in large and complex responses. • Prepares, updates and ensures compliance with the department's Continuity of Operations Plan (COOP) as a part of the overall county COOP program. • Reviews operational performance of the department to ensure appropriate tactics,optimum utilization of personnel, equipment,and facilities; Evaluates and approves recommendations for improvement. • Administers and manages the budget for the department including but not limited to grants,contracts, 1 and personnel requirements. Oversees the preparation and development of capital improvement budgets,prepares reports and documents as requested;represents the department and makes presentations at budget hearings before the administration and County Council. • Develops,implements and periodically reviews the department Strategic Plan and implements a yearly Program of Work to accomplish the strategic objectives. • Oversees and evaluates the performance of subordinates under his/her direct supervision;meets with senior staff and others as appropriate to evaluate activities,discuss problems,and collaborate on strategies for improvement. Encourages and provides pathways to develop the future leadership from within. • Issues,enforces and periodicallyleviews current rules and regulations manuals,and general procedural guides to all personnel to assure uniformity and effective emergency operations. Institutes corrective action when appropriate. • Oversees the department's training program from recruit classes through chief officers. Provides additional leadership,supervision and management training for company officers and above to provide"2 deep"trained leadership. Serves as a mentor to department employees. • Serves,or properly delegates, as a liaison with the Civil Defense emergency operations center(EOC)to ensure collaboration of inter-agency planning and logistics before and during all-risk events and community crisis. • Reviews department activity reports to determine compliance with department policies,procedures,and practices;prepares and submits periodic reports regarding battalion activities and needs. • Reviews recommendations made by promotion selection panels and selects most qualified candidates based on merit. • Oversees the department's record management system (RMS) program with senior department staff. • Oversees the department's public relations effort.Fosters open and effective internal and external communication,and ensures cooperation and collaboration throughout the department. • Reviews department activities and reports to determine compliance with departmental policies and procedures,safety practices,and OSHA/NIOSH requirements. Makes changes and corrections as needed. • Prepares and presents formal presentations and testimony before the County Council; presents legislative, public hearing and inter-agency planning and review testimony as required. • Serves as a member of the Mayor's cabinet,State of Hawai'i State Fire Council,Hawai'i Fire Chiefs Association's Board of Directors,and other state or federal-level special committees or task forces for special projects that require the Chief's direct involvement. • Serves as department liaison with other county,state,and federal agencies. MINIMUM QUALIFICATION REQUIREMENTS: • Must be a citizen of the United States and be a resident of the State of Hawai'i for one year prior to appointment,and five(5)years of training and experience in fire control including at least three(3)years of experience in a responsible administrative capacity,and • Possession of a valid State of Hawai'i driver's license(Class 3)or any other valid comparable driver's license. Knowledge of: Fire management organization,all-risk response and administration including leadership, supervision,training,and budget preparation and control; personnel management;principles,methods and techniques of firefighting and pre-hospital emergency medical services including types and uses of pertinent equipment;federal,local and State rules, regulations,ordinances,and laws relating to fire department operations; department policies, rules,practices,and procedures;and the geography and physical characteristics of the County of Hawai'i and its adjacent waters. i Ability to: Plan,organize,direct,and administer an extensive firefighting,search and rescue,aviation operation, 2 ocean safety,volunteer fire, hazardous materials,and pre-hospital emergency medical services operation;apply firefighting principles and knowledge in developing an effective firefighting,rescue,hazardous materials,and pre- hospital emergency medical services operation;conduct inspections and investigations of performance and conditions;apply good judgment in making management decisions;establish and maintain effective working relationships with subordinates and the public; and keep records and prepare reports. Special Working Conditions: Irregular hours,shift and weekend work,and exposure to hazardous and obnoxious conditions as required. Physical Requirements: Persons seeking appointment to positions in this class must meet the health and physical condition standards deemed necessary and proper to perform the essential functions of the position with or without reasonable accommodations. I i Physical Effort Grouping: Light 3 Harry Kim .o;NSY o S" William V.Briffiante,Jr. Mayor %G•.• i!. "•-°!,\ Acting Director o"Human Resources • • t% j I* "S�S'�.•;^`Nn—sof�•� HUMAN i-7,_JVuicEJ y, SOP H-. OCT 2 4 2U1? County of Hawaiii 12.!15--pH>=�_cr"NED; Department of Human Resources Aupuni Center*101 Pauaki Street,Suite 2*Halo,Hawaii 96720*(808)961-8361*Fax(808) 961-8617 website:http://hawaiicounty.9ov/human-resources e-maiG jobs@kawaiicounty.gov TO: Hugh Y. Ono, P.E., Chair and Salary Commission Members FROM: William Brilhante, Jr., Acting Director of Human Resources DATE: October 24, 2017 RE: Private Industry Salary Information Per your request for information on private industry salary data, attached are portions of the Hawaii Employer's Council 2017 Professional, Administrative, and Management Salary Survey that we participated in earlier this year. A total of 189 private companies and government agencies in Hawaii participated in the survey. We've selected the following groups that are comparable to some of our executive appointed positions under your review. HEC Salary Survey Title County of Hawai'i Title Chief Financial Officer Finance Director Top Legal Executive Corporation Counsel Chief Human Resources Officer Director of Human Resources We are also including other HEC Survey data that would be helpful in evaluating pay for other County of Hawai'i executive positions that are similar to the HEC descriptions, but do not necessarily incorporate the entire scope of work of our positions. HEC Salary Survey Title County of Hawai'i Comparable Title Top Construction Executive Director of Public Works Engineering Director Director of Public Works; Director of Environmental Management Chief Executive Officer Mayor Chief Operating Officer Managing Director ATT. B Hawaii County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employer. The data provided in the survey is reported in a number of ways including by number of employees, by revenues/operating budget (for entire company) and by industry. 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Y Y Y Y Y COUNTY OF HAWAII HUMAN RESOURCES 2017 OCT 25 PM 12: 28 October 25, 2017 Salary Commission, Hawaii County Aupuni Center 101 Pauahi, Suite 2 Hilo, HI 96720 RE: Review of salaries for executives and elected officials Dear Chairperson Ono and Commissioners: I am writing regarding the Commission's review and consideration of salary increases for executives and elected officials. Although I am a Deputy at the Office of Corporation Counsel, I am writing in my individual capacity. I became a Deputy for the County of Hawaii in August 2009. The only raise which I have received in the last eight years is a small increase in 2012 when I became the litigation supervisor.' The Deputies, both at Corporation Counsel and at the Prosecutors, have not received raises because our salaries are capped at 90% of the Prosecuting Attorney or Corporation Counsel's salary pursuant to Hawaii County Code § 2-144. Since the Prosecuting Attorney and Corporation Counsel have not received raises, the County Deputies have not received raises. Our office represents the County and its employees in a wide variety of litigation matters, including civil rights lawsuits, wrongful death actions and complex breach of contract claims. These cases often involve millions of dollars and must be handled by experienced litigators. Experienced civil litigators are essential to protecting the County and preventing large settlements and judgments. The failure to pay a competitive wage to Deputies hinders our ability to recruit and retain experienced civil litigators. Since 2009, the total inflation rate was 15.58%.2 As prices have risen, the Deputies' salaries have remained the same, which is effectively a pay cut. As a result, it has become increasingly difficult to make ends meet and provide for our families. While the Deputies' salaries have remained the same, virtually all other employees (who are not subject to the salary commission) have received raises 'Since I am only speaking from my personal experience, I am only commenting on the lack of raises since 2009, the year which I started with the County. ATT. C However, it is likely Deputies did not receive raises prior to 2009 as well. 2During this same period. Social Security gave cost of living increases totaling 14.6%. over the last eight years. For example, HGEA, Unit 13 received a total of 18% in raises from 2013 through July 1, 2019.3 The attorneys working for the County of Hawaii are the lowest paid government attorneys in the state. Deputy Prosecutors and Corporation Counsel for the County of Maui licensed for at least nine years are currently paid $119,943, retroactive to July 1, 2016, and effective July 1, 2018, Deputies will be paid $127,140. See attachment. Deputy Prosecutors and Corporation Counsel with the County of Kauai are paid $109,560. It should also be noted that the Office of Corporation Counsel on Kauai do not handle litigation matters. Rather, their litigation is handled by outside counsel paid for by the County of Kauai. This is unlike our office in which the litigators handle all lawsuits unless there is insurance coverage, in which case, the insurance company hires outside counsel. However, our office continues to monitor the litigation and protect the County's interests. Attorneys at the Corporation Counsel in Honolulu are paid up to $154,728 and non-supervisory Deputies at the Attorney General's office earn up to $136,320. As noted, the salaries of the Deputies are low compared to similar positions because of the lack of any significant raise in the last decade to the Prosecuting Attorney and Corporation Counsel. The Prosecuting Attorney's salary is currently $113,580 and Corporation Counsel is $110,244. These salaries are significantly lower than other comparable government positions. On Maui, the Prosecutor and Corporation Counsel are both paid $133,746. In Honolulu, the Prosecutor is paid $164,136 and Corporation Counsel is paid $154,728. On Kauai, the Prosecutor and Corporation Counsel are both paid $119,357. Paying a competitive and fair wage to County attorneys is also important because of the advance degree which is required of all attorneys. In order to be licensed to practice law, an individual must obtain a juris doctor degree which requires three years of law school. Attending William S. Richardson Law School, a public law school, costs approximately $34,000 per year (while living with a parent).4 Therefore, the total cost to attend law school is approximately $100,000.5 Since an advanced degree is required to be an attorney, and this can 3Although not a member of HGEA, Unit 13, attorneys are tied to this collective bargaining agreement ("CBA") for certain purposes including the determination of the employee's share health insurance premiums. 4lnformation was obtained from www.law.hawaii.edu/2017-2018-cost-attendance. The amount quoted is based upon resident tuition. Nonresident tuition is $53,104 per year. 5ln addition to law school, an attorney must also attend four years of college. University of Hawaii at Manoa's tuition is approximately $11,000 per year and 2 only be achieved at great expense, this should be a factor in determining the salaries of Corporation Counsel and the Prosecuting Attorney. In addition, I believe the Prosecuting Attorney and Corporation Counsel should be paid at the same level. Both positions share common attributes and qualifications and their job responsibilities are substantially similar. Both the County of Kauai and the County of Maui pay the Prosecuting Attorney at the same level as Corporation Counsel.6 I can think of no logical reason to pay Corporation Counsel less than the Prosecuting Attorney. Hiring and retaining the best individuals is important when filling Director positions. Directors hold key positions in the County and it is important to hire the best person. A good Director will not only run his or her department effectively, he or she will save the County money and avoid potential liability. In contrast, an inexperienced Director will make poor decisions which will not only frustrate the public and employees, but expose the County to liability. Having a competitive salary for these key positions is essential to the effective management of the County and to avoid liability. It would be penny wise and pound foolish to keep Directors' salaries low and not pay a competitive salary. Concerningly, due to the lack of raises for Directors, several departments currently have subordinates earning significantly more than their Department heads. Government entities are bound by specific laws and rules which differ from private business, such as procurement and civil service laws. Often the best person for the job is someone who has worked for the department for years and has the respect of their co-workers. However, given the inversion of salaries, why would anyone be willing to take a pay cut for the additional headaches and responsibilities that being a Director requires? Our County has been fortunate that despite the low pay, some employees have been willing to step forward and lead their Department. These individuals deserve more than just our gratitude and respect, they deserve a fair and reasonable salary which is more than their subordinates. Finally, I urge this Commission to put into place a mechanism where small increases will "automatically" occur on a regular basis. Small regular increases which do not require a complete review of the salary structure merely maintains the status quo. I believe a major reason the attorneys were not given raises for over eight years was because the Salary Commission was not adequately staffed and often lacked quorum. Steps should be taken to ensure that even if the Salary Commission is not staffed, small increases in salary will occur. room and board is approximately $13,000 per year. Therefore, an undergraduate degree would cost an additional $96,000. 6The County of Kauai has a "County Attorney" instead of a Corporation Counsel. 3 I believe the most reasonable way to provide for small increases (and ensure that Directors will not make less than subordinates) is to provide Directors with the same increases as the applicable CBA. Even though Directors and Deputies are not covered by a CBA, they do follow a specific CBA for certain purposes, such as determining their share of health insurance benefits. If increases are tied to the applicable CBA, they will fluctuate depending upon economic conditions and budgetary concerns while being consistent with what other County employees are receiving. I appreciate your willingness to review the salaries of the Directors and I know you will do what is fair and right for the County and its employees. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Laureen L. Martin 4 ORDINANCE NO. BILL NO. 61 (2017) A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 2.44.015, MAUI COUNTY CODE, RELATING TO SALARIES OF DEPUTIES CORPORATION COUNSEL AND DEPUTIES PROSECUTING ATTORNEY BE IT ORDAINED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE COUNTY OF MAUI: SECTION 1. Section 2.44.015, Maui County Code, is amended by amending subsection A to read as follows: "A. The corporation counsel and the prosecuting attorney shall have sole discretion to set the annual salary of each deputy in their respective departments within a range that is twenty percent greater or less than the allocated amount, provided that the annual salary of any deputy shall not exceed the salary of the first deputy corporation counsel or the first deputy prosecuting attorney, whichever is lower. The allocated amount for a deputy shall depend upon the number of full years that has elapsed since the deputy was admitted to the practice of law in any State or the District of Columbia, as of the beginning of the fiscal year, as follows: Effective [July 1, 2013] July 1, 2016 Years Allocated Amount 0 [$57,620] $61,077 1 [63,789] 67,616 2 [69,958] 74,155 3 [76,127] 80,695 4 [82,296] 87,244 5 [88,478] 93,787 6 [94,647] 100,326 7 [100,816] 106,865 8 [106,985] 113,404 9+ [113,154] 119,943 Effective July 1, 2018 Years Allocated Amount 0 $ 64,742 1 71,673 2 78,605 3 85,536 4 92,468 5 99,414 6 106,345 7 113,277 8 120,208 9+ 127,140" SECTION 2. Material to be repealed is bracketed. New material is underscored. In printing this bill, the County Clerk need not include the brackets, the bracketed material, or the underscoring. SECTION 3. This ordinance, upon its approval, shall take effect retroactive to July 1, 2016. APPROVED AS TO FORM AND LEGALITY: OZL- PAT'S K �% ONG Corporati• Counsel County of Maui 2017-0116/2017-0093 2017-05-03 Ordinance DIGEST ORDINANCE NO. BILL NO. 61 (2017) A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 2.44.015, MAUI COUNTY CODE, RELATING TO SALARIES OF DEPUTIES CORPORATION COUNSEL AND DEPUTIES PROSECUTING ATTORNEY This bill proposes to amend Section 2.44.015, Maui County Code, relating to adjustments to the salary plan for deputies in the Department of the Corporation Counsel and the Department of the Prosecuting Attorney retroactive to July 1, 2016 and on July 1, 2018. I, DENNIS A. MATEO, County Clerk of the County of Maui, State of Hawaii, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the foregoing BILL NO. 61 (2017) was passed on First Reading by the Council of the County of Maui, State of Hawaii, on the 19th day of May, 2017, by the following vote: AYES: Councilmembers Alika Atay, Eleanora Cochran, S. Stacy Crivello, Donald S. Guzman, G. Riki Hokama, Kelly T. King, Yuki Lei K. Sugimura, Vice-Chair Robert Carroll, and Chair Michael B. White. NOES: None. DATED at Wailuku, Maui, Hawaii, this 22nd of May, 2017. (4644 Z ) Z. .. ENNIS A. MATEO COUNTY CLERK COUNTY OF MAUI, TATE OF HAWAII Copies of the foregoing Bill, in full, are on file in the Office of the County Clerk, County of Maui, for use and examination by the public. Submitted by the Department of Human Resources Executive Salary Jurisdiction Comparisons POSITIONS STATE*** C&C HONOLULU HAWAII MAUI KAUAI** EFFECTIVE DATES EXCEPT AS NOTED: 7/1/17 7/1/17 7/1/14 7/1/16 7/1/17 GOVERNOR $155,592 LT.GOVERNOR $151,776 ADMIN DIRECTOR of the STATE $151,776 MAYOR $173,184 $132,000 $151,979 $132,000 M.D./ADMIN.ASS'T./DIR. $165,672 $119,004 $141,551 $122,536 DEPUTY M.D. $157,056 $115,008 $127,396 PROS ATTY $164,136 $113,580 $142,306 $119,357 1ST DEPUTY PA $156,072 $107,904 $135,190 $114,582 DEPUTIES:PA,Corp Counsel $54,912-$152,384(PA) $56,790-$102,222 $97,325-$113,154 $109,560 $69,816-Salary of the Corporation Counsel DEPT.HEADS DAGS,DBEDT,DCCA,DHHL,DHS, $144,552 DLIR,DLNR,DOA,DOH,DOT,PSD, TAX BUDGET&FINANCE $151,776 $154,728 $110,244 $131,118 $119,357 ATTORNEY GENERAL/CORP COUNSEL $151,776 $154,728 $110,244 $142,306 $119.357 HUMAN RESOURCES $144,552 $154,728 $99,000 $127,512 $114,582 INFO TECH $154,728 $99,000 POLICE $191,184 $130,818 $151,200 $127,313 FIRE $185,112 $130,818' $151,200 $127,313' MEDICAL EXAMINER $288,192 EMERGENCY SERVICES $154,728 PLANNING $154,728 $99,000 $130,732 $119,357 PUBLIC WORKS $110,244 $139,232 $119,35/ DESIGN&CONSTRUCTION $154,728 FACILITIES MAINTENANCE $154,728 ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES $154,728 $110,244 $139,232 LIQUOR $99,000 $132,432 $109,560 WATER $177,551(+) $121,000(+)(01/01/17) $135,884 $119,357 CUSTOMER SERVICES $154,728 ENTERPRISE SERVICES $154,728 HOUSING $99,000 $127,769(&HC) $114,582 LAND MANAGEMENT $154,728 PARKS $154,728 $99,000 $128,542 $119,357 RESEARCH&DEV./ECONOMIC DEV. $99,000 $109,560 ROYAL HAWAIIAN BAND $136,512 TRANSPORTATION $154,728 $120,299 DEPUTIES DAGS,DBEDT,DCCA,DHHL,DHS, $125,748-$132,972 DLIR,DLNR,DOA,DOH,DOT,PSD, TAX BUDGET&FINANCE $132,048-$139,632 $146,808 $104,502 $118,006- $114,582 1ST DEPUTY AG/CORP COUNSEL $132,048-$139,632 $146,808 $104,502 $135,190 $114,582 listoep) HUMAN RESOURCES $125,748-$132,972 $146,808 $94,284 $114,760 INFO TECH $146,808 POLICE $182,352 $126,894 $143,640 $114,582 FIRE $176,544 $126,894' $143,640 $114,582' MEDICAL EXAMINER $230,592 EMERGENCY SERVICES $146,808 PLANNING $146,808 $94,284 $117,659 $109,560 PUBLIC WORKS $104,502 $125,310 $114,582 DESIGN&CONSTRUCTION $146,808 FACILITIES MAINTENANCE $146,808 ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT $146,808 $104,502 $125,310 LIQUOR $119,188 WATER 169480(+) $110,000(+)(01/01/17) $121,288 $114,582 CUSTOMER SERVICES $146,808 ENTERPRISE SERVICES $146,808 HOUSING $114,992(&HC) LAND MANAGEMENT $146,808 PARKS $146,808 $94,284 $115,688 $114,582 RESEARCH&DEV/ECONOMIC DEV. $94,284 TRANSPORTATION $146,808 $108,269 LEGISLATIVE BRANCH 1/1/17 7/1/17 7/1/2014 7/1/2013 12/1/2009 SPEAKERS/PRES $68,880 MEMBERS HSE/SEN $61,380 COUNCIL CHAIRPERSON $71,520 $58,008 $82,225 $63,879 COUNCIL MEMBERS $64,008 $52,008 $76,475 $56,781 COUNTY CLERK $99,000 $119,357 $94,284 $114,582 DEPUTY COUNTY CLERK COUNTY AUDITOR $99,000 $117,000 $119,357 _ * Hawaii Fire includes Emergency Medical Services and Ocean Safety;Kauai Fire includes Ocean Safety ATT. D *"Salaries for the County of Kauai reflects the maximum salary each position may be compensated at. The respective appointing authority may set the salary of any new or existing non-elected appointee at a figure lower than the maximum salary. ***State departments have responsibility statewide on all islands. Maui's Budget&Finance does not include Budget. •Kauai's Public Works includes Environmental (+)Salary set by Water Board Last Updated 10/26/17