2000-03-08 Charter Commission Minutes

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minutes 03-08-00Page 2 of 35 VICENTE: It’s in conflict with the U.S. Constitution and Declaration of Independence because when you read the Constitution, even the Admission Act, they cite Hawaii being treated under the Northwest Ordinance. We were never part of the Northwest Ordinance. That was under the Articles of Confederation which was short lived, only about two years. So, why they cite that in the Admission Act? And in keeping in tradition, they’re going to continue doing - Under that power, Congress had the authority to create a temporary government and turn that lands outside of the United States into states, but that was repealed. That’s Article 4, Section 3, Clause 2. It reads ‘Congress shall have power to dispose of’, meaning get rid of. That’s not a Article 1, Section 8 power, which is where Congress has to initiate. RAY: I’m not a constitutional authority. I’m not an authority on the Charter, so this is all really way over my head to respond, to tell you the truth. We’re just trying to do our job in regard to the Charter. VICENTE: But, can you usurp power over someone without their consent? Apparently Hawaii has two publics, for most people that don’t realize that. There’s a general public and there’s Hawaiian Homes Commission Act which defines one public, and I fall in between the two. I meet not the blood quantum nor am I in the general public, so I’m in limbo. And I find a problem. How can you run a government with two publics? The Constitution speak of only one, so there’s a lot of conflict in law going on right now. RAY: But, specifically, what’s your suggestion to us? We’ve been tasked, this body formed, as part of the Charter. Every ten years we do this review. So, if you had your druthers, ideally, what would you have this Charter Commission do? VICENTE: Well, if keeping with the U.S. Constitution, everything become nullified. We’re either in a state of nature or we’re in a state of anarchy. Anarchy is what exists right now because there’s conflicts in law, and I see that as anarchy. RAY: Chris, do you have any - Help me out here. I think I hear what you’re saying. I mean, I think basically you’re saying everything we’re doing is not a valid process. VICENTE: Just a waste of everybody’s time. RAY: In regard to your interpretation. VICENTE: I don’t want nobody usurping power over me because I’m not in agreement. It’s like a contract. I’m not in a contract with the County of Hawaii. I didn’t authorize them by consent, according to the Declaration of Independence, power to taxes by the consent of the governed. And if the public going to be in a couple of different publics, well, it’s kind of hard to be usurping power over everybody, yeah? I think it needs to be defined. Public Law 103-150 says one thing. The State Constitution says something else. The County Charter says something else. We got to know who we are. RAY: Anybody have any response to that? MARTIN: Yes. I’d like to refer to a question that I asked several meetings back when some of the individuals here came and asked several questions, and I asked if there was any validity to what they were saying, because as you said, John, it was over our heads, definitely over mine. But, being American Indian and knowing a little bit about that aspect, I can understand it. And I asked Chris, was there any validity, and I believe the answer came back. So, at this point again, I ask, does it warrant us going in any other direction than we’ve been going in? YUEN: Mr. Vicente is saying, if I understand you correctly, that actually the United States could not expand beyond the original 13 colonies. Is that correct? VICENTE: Not according to Article 4, Section 3, Clause 1. You have to be recognized as a State. The word "state" is defined in the Declaration of Independence. You have to be able to wage war, conclude peace, sign treaties and do all the things a nation state does. The State of Hawaii has no treaties, no nothing. It entered as a colony, and that goes back to the 1887 (indiscernible) Constitution and the so-called overthrow of 1893. Treaties was kept until 1898, the point that they were going to expire. That’s why U.S. citizen Dole, who became the so-called President under provisional government, never signed any treaties. The only treaty was with his own government, they called the United States. YUEN: Well, I don’t know how detailed you want me to be in responding to your question. On the first point, Mr. Vicente does not believe that the United States government lawfully constitutes beyond the original 13 colonies. There are a lot of ways to answer that, as a lawyer. I think probably the simplest way is to point out that the United States exercises apparent authority over the 50 states, and that this is recognized by all other countries in the world. This is the general definition for file://\\coh01\cohweb\council\charter_commission\minutes\minutes 03-08-00.html7/1/2011