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thing to do for the claims, you know, you get investigations or you get workers' comp, you get <br />employee fraud. I think it's highly skilled trained people are in the field today. To get a Civil <br />Service person to do that, I think would take a lot, a long time for him to really learn the ins and <br />outs. Would you be favorable in terms of outsourcing some of those things? <br />BEN: I think most definitely we could be outsourcing a lot of it. There's nothing <br />to prevent the current position to be engaging in outsourcing as part of the overall workers' <br />compensation program, but I still think you need that coordinator, even for the outsourcing <br />portion. <br />RAY: Didn't we -, haven't we been doing that? Didn't we -, wasn't there an <br />attorney that was contracted to do a bunch of that work the last few years? <br />BEN: There was an attorney to handle a certain amount of cases, and I think that <br />contract is over with. <br />RAY: Right. <br />BEN: But I'm assuming you're talking about investigations and claims <br />adjustments and -. <br />• HIGASHI: Yeah, I come from a background that we created HEMIC, which is a new <br />workers' comp insurance, and I've learned a heck of a lot about workers' comp, and workers' <br />comp is a big complicated field with a lot of specialists and -. <br />• <br />RAY: Okay. <br />HIGASHI: Having good employees or having good people doing the work saves the <br />employer a lot of money. But I think in this area, maybe outsourcing would be something to <br />consider. <br />RAY: Daryl, you had a question or a comment? <br />KUROZAWA: Yeah, I'm just trying to get a little clarification. Is the problem right now <br />that the Safety Coordinator is not doing what they're supposed to, or is it that there's no <br />cooperation between the Safety Coordinator and the departments? Or is it a combination of both? <br />BEN: I think it's a combination of both. Worker's comp, as Mr. Higashi pointed <br />out, is very, very complicated, and you really need extensive training on it. And the same thing <br />goes with the OSHA laws. And, you kno'v, I think it's hard to find qualified people to assume <br />those kinds of positions. So in terms of not knowing what to do, I think there's a little bit of that <br />involved, and also the part about that we mentioned there's no cooperation between the <br />departments. <br />29 <br />