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• RAY: Okay. Mr. Martin. MARTIN: On what Kevin is saying and I think what I'm hearing from across the room is that we go through the motions, put it forth and it doesn't even get a ground swelter. You can sell ice to an Eskimo, it's possible, it's been done before so with whatever we come up, if in fact we do want to come up and how we present it to the public is what's going to make or break the issue and any issue, whether it be the nonpartisan, whether it be this particular one that we're grappling with right now in the Managing Director, and it's not for us to decide, whether it be right or wrong, I think it comes out to what the public wants and it comes down to that ground swelter. I've heard some talk about it. Maybe not enough but I have heard some so are we willing to pursue it? And once we are, then how do we sell it is what it comes down to. RAY: I don't think we have to decide that right now. MARTIN: Oh sure, I'm not saying that but that's the jest of it. RAY: Marni. HERKES: Mr. Ray, I remember when we were hiring, was it hiring an attorney, we had a straw vote. No, it was hiring the secretary as to whether it was going to be Civil Service, we had a straw vote. Do you want a straw vote today? RAY: Ido, but - HERKES: That's what I think. You do, but when you mention more information, I just kind of went "oh" but I would like to hear that guy. RAY: You're not going to hear that guy. What you're going to get is basically the same type of stuff you've already gotten. It's going to be how ever many pages from the Institute of Government at the University of Georgia on City Manager form of government and what they think the pros and cons are, so I don't think it's going to be formatted in any different way than what we've already received. HERKES: I had an advantage probably, that I don't think anybody else in this room, in the League of Women Voters and the AAUW put on a forum and we had a Township Manager and a City Manager - They were both married to airline pilots so they came to Kona for vacation and we had them talk to us and the Head of the Neighborhood Board of Oahu. A lot of this material that they brought was from that City Manager so that information - It's very valuable to have somebody in that role talk to you about what it's like. RAY: Was that something you would like? 22