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HERKES: <br />telephone. <br />IRVINE: Yes. Well, these folks consider this other stuff utilities as well, <br />which they often are. <br />We have a Public Utilities Commission and that's electricity and <br />YUEN: Yes, I think I can explain it. <br />IRVINE: Oh, good. <br />YUEN: I think the example that Sue just gave of San Luis Obispo, I think <br />that's just a name that they're calling their service. <br />HERKES: There's not really a definition? <br />YUEN: Right. When you speak of a public utility in the State of Hawaii, <br />there is a Public Utilities Commission and there's certain companies that are franchised <br />as public utilities, like the electric company and the phone company, and a few others <br />that are regulated and provide these services, but in fact, they're basically private <br />organizations. There's the theoretical regulation and control by the government, but <br />they're 98% privately run. And that example, in San Luis Obispo, that's just what <br />they're calling their organization there. <br />HERKES: Okay, thank you. <br />SANTANGELO: And I think the question came up for us, when we looked at this <br />Commission, and maybe I'm mistaken, but that really wasn't something we were going <br />to deal with. That again, like John said, that's the Mayor or the Council, and so we <br />started looking at the department more, because to me, the Commission has little or <br />no teeth at all. And where I'm coming from, and I'd really like to know from the other <br />members here is, are we interested in having our environmental issues handled <br />separately with different expertise, and therefore, are we inclined to look at a <br />department? <br />IRVINE: <br />not ready, yet - <br />Or a Division within Public Works. I mean mandate a Division. I'm <br />SANTANGELO: I, personally, would like to see it to be not within Public Works. <br />IRVINE: Well, depending if we're going to leave, quote, Engineer in charge <br />of Public Works or whether we were going to more of a management person, and then <br />underneath that, have the expertise in the various fields. <br />SANTANGELO: But you, yourself, in everything you've found, has it separate. <br />6 <br />