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HIGASHI: My thinking, all along, is that if we have it in the Charter, it would be permitted, whichever Administration chooses to create it. If it's not in the Charter, 1 don't think they'll be able to do it. But as long as it's listed in the Charter, the department, and if the next Mayor chooses to move ahead, and timing is right, fine. I'd like to interject that I looked at the Charter allowing privatization in this field. There may be department, maybe managerial type operation, but not necessarily mandating an operational entity of government. So, I don't know. That's why we have a legal counsel, to kind of figure this thing out. I mean, that's just where I come from. We can create the department. We can create it in the Charter so it can be formed, but we need the flexibility, whether it's managed competition, or whatever, that we have that in the Charter so it's allowed, and not mandated to be a Civil Service type department. RAY: Okay. SANTANGELO: Mr. Chairman, addressing the vagueness of it, and really it isn't vague. But, if you just take the Department of Public Works, and you just model it right after that. Mr. Yuen knows better, but under Organization: There shall be a Department of Environmental Services, consisting of an Environmental Engineer, or something like that, and the staff necessary. This Environmental E=ngineer shall be appointed by the Mayor, confirmed by the Council, and may be removed by the Mayor. Then Powers and Duties. And it seems like all these departments are set up • that way. And here's this gigantic department set up with the powers, duties and functions of the Department of Public Works shall be prescribed by ordinance, and shall be exercised and performed by the department. RAY: And so, in your mind, would the Administration and/or Council be mandated to create that department? SANTANGELO: If this is voted on by the public and placed into the Charter, then there's a normal,governmentai way of fleshing this thing out that's been done in the past, and unless someone could show me the flaw in that, I would expect that that's how this would be done also. RAY: So in your mind, it would be mandated. SANTANGELO: Absolutely. RAY: That's what I didn't understand from Roland. Roland was saying that we enable the creation of it, by putting this in the Charter, but it's not necessarily mandated. HERKES: Mr. Chair, can I ask a question? Chris, is everything in the Charter mandated? if it's in the Charter, do you have to do it? YUEN: You can have a `shall' and a 'may' agency in the Charter.