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too, it also says here that these people are appointed by the Mayor and approval of the Council but then on page 16, the last section, 8-5, it says the `Administrative Supervision - the department of water supply shall come under the general supervision and control of the mayor'. So you know, I don't see any autonomy there. I think it all goes under the Mayor has supreme power on this particular issue. And moving on to the Planning Commission, I would note - RAY: Dick, before you leave the water issues, do you have any thoughts or comment on the qualifications for the Manager being required to be a registered engineer? BOYD: I think that's a good qualification and I personally think a lot of the present Water Commissioner even though I'm involved in a lawsuit with the Water Department. I think a lot of Mr. Pavao and I think that he's a victim of being under the Mayor, if I might throw that out there. Did that answer your question? RAY: Yes. BOYD: Yes, I think you need an engineer there. Moving on to the Planning Commission would be another one where I feel as though and I should have opened with this. I believe that having appeared before the Commission so many times, the Water Commission, the people that were on the Water Commission are sincere people and I would never impugn their honesty but as this Commission is similar, you have different viewpoints, different perspectives. On Oahu, I was in real estate. I was a contractor. I did different things and I would come to the table with a different perspective were I still in those businesses. I'm not in those businesses anymore and I notice most of the commissions, if you look at them, they come to the table with a different perspective. I think we need to have more representation from different areas of the community. I don't think native Hawaiians have been given fair shift. I don't think environmentalists per se, have been given a fair amount of involvement in these commissions. The only reason I say that, I think that's important because if you look at the Planning Commission, in the last five years that I've been following this, there's been lawsuits against the Planning Commission and a number of them are in the Supreme Court now and they haven't won them all and it's all taxpayers' money going out there and I believe if the Planning Commission had a little more balance in there and there's a little more give and take amongst the Commission Members, some people might change their viewpoint a little. They might vote a little different but when everyone is of the same perspective, has the same viewpoint, and they don't hear - it's like a jury. When you go into a jury, if you've ever served on a jury, and sometimes you have your mind made up and then all of a sudden somebody gives you another perspective on something and you say, whoa, yeah, I didn't think of that. And I really believe that needs to come to the Commissions. And that's all I really have to say other than I support the fact that there either should be elected - Commissioners should be 11