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with a developer, is going to get the developer's money. So, it's not a question of a quid quo pro. It's a question of the person who doesn't agree with the developer doesn't have a level playing field. And if you have more of these seats that you need more money for, it means the people that do not support more and more development of everything don't have a chance to compete. So - SANTANGELO: Just one quick comment. RAY: John. SANTANGELO: I thank you. We need more dialogue like that. The money issue has been so hard for me because I guess I come from such an ideal world that - I won't go into myself, but I've seen people really pay their dues, really develop who and what they are, and they're not for sale. But it is a point, which one? At what cost do we go one way or the other? And because of your comments on other issues, I really do trust the depth and the integrity that you give, and so I thank you for that. Again, I didn't want to have the dialogue with everybody. I figured I'd pick on one person. It's been really hard. It's been hard for us because again, you see the good in your own heart of it, but do you put that in front of people so that it comes down to this 'why not'. So, in an issue like this, what would be your comment about putting this out and letting people vote on it, or really, what is the good or bad of pulling it off ahead of time? FRANKEL: The only thing is that it jeopardizes all your things on the thing. I've • seen e-mails going on already, `we've got to vote down everything the Charter Commission is recommending', and that's the risk you throw out there. SANTANGELO: Okay, thank you for articulating that. RAY: Okay, George has a quick question on the trails - MARTIN: Yes, one of your first statements was concern about the Planning Department changes and trails being left out of the loop. I know that there's a department within DLNR that specifically deals with trails. Do you see it possible to possibly put a mechanism in there to trigger them coming in, in an instance where a trail possibly is in question? I mean, because it is like John indicated to me, a County issue and this is a State agency, but they do have overwhelming power in this particular matter, yes? FRANKEL: There's a couple of issues. One is whether - I know that the Na'alahele Program doesn't have enough money to have enough staff to look at every subdivision application. What they do have, however, are confidential maps of every single trail on this island. I don't know if those maps have been shared with the Planning Department, and they may not have the legal ability to transfer that because some of these trails are strictly on private property. I'm not sure what the deal is with 16