HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHC 1989-01-25 Minutes of
HAWAII CHARTER COMMISSION
January 25 , 1989
I. CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at approximately 4 :04 p.m.
by Chairman Robert Bethea. The location of the meeting was the
Department of Liquor Control, Conference Room, 101 Aupuni Street,
Hilo , Hawaii.
II. ROLL CALL
Members Robert Bethea, Chairman
Present : Sherwood Greenwell , Co-Chairman (arrived late)
Pete L 'Orange,
Francine Duncan
James 0 . Juvik
David Fuertes
Pamela Cushnie
Aileen Lum
Steven Nishikawa
Akira OmonAk-a
Karolyn Nagao, Acting Executive Secretary
Members Patricia Poppe
Absent :
Others Sam Page
Present : Fred Giannini, Corporation Counsel ' s Office
Marie Jacobs , Secretary-Admin. Asst.
Ronald Ibarra , Prosecutor ' s Office
John R. Hughes, KIPA
Janice Bibb, Director, Liquor Department
Gordon Pang, West Hawaii Today
III. REVIEW/APPROVE MINUTES OF 01/11/89
BETHEA : The minutes have been circulated. I have read
through them and I assume that everybody has read through them.
Obviously, they are not perfect , but (inaudible) verbatim
transcripts are usually. . .usually are not ; I leave it for the
Commission whether you want to approve them or whether or not , for
example, you want to approve them subject to the individual
members suggesting any corrections that the minutes would need.
What ' s the pleasure of the Commission?
GREENWELL : I move that we approve them as circulated. I
don ' t think there was anything of tremendous substance for
decision-making. It was a lot of opinions given out if anything. . .
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BETHEA : . . .we can record your, record your testimony--any
way that you would like to run it. If you want to go on with a
statement and then let us ask questions after you' ve finished the
statement or, if you would prefer, as questions occur to us, to
ask them. What would be your choice?
IBARRA: Okay. I ' d like to first give a brief overview of
how the present form of government was enacted and then cover what
is our present structure of organization under the County Charter,
and , since I don' t speak long , like some attorneys , you can ask
questions as we. . . as we go along. Feel free to ask questions.
Before I begin, I ' d just like to point out that for your
familiarization, there are certain references that you might want
to look at as far as the background of our County government , how
the Board of Supervisors were informed prior to this County going
into an executive-legislative type of government. And these
references are the State Statutes, Chapter 62, Chapter 46,
64--excuse me for jumping around but they pertain to different
sections--and 50, 52, 46 and 62, and these are the basic. . .
BETHEA : 50 and 52?
IBARRA : 50, 52, 62, and these. . .
BETHEA: We ' re skipping section 64?
IBARRA : Yes. These sections establish the Board of
Supervisor in all of the counties , especially the County of
Hawaii. For example , Section. . .Chapter 62 established the Board
of Supervisors in the County of Hawaii, which at that time
consisted of seven members. One was the Chair, as Mr. Greenwell
can tell you, six members and Chapter 64 then established the
department[s] under the Board of Supervisors which were the Fire
Department, Public Works, Recreation Commission and also the
Hospital Commission. Chapter 62, which created the Board of
Supervisor type of government, also authorized a clerk, auditor,
County attorney , treasurer and Chief of Police . And generally ,
the power of the board was to exercise general supervision and
control of public affairs of County, and supervision of all
subordinate officers. And the Chairman was elected, .presided at
the meetings and had general supervision of the County affairs and
managed the departments. And all this subject to the Board ' s
approval. So that was the old form of government, as an overview,
for the Board of Supervisors.
And, of course , in. . .beginning in 1963 when a Charter
Commission was formed and. . . One reference I left out was the
minutes of that Charter Commission, such as yourselves , when they
discussed what form of government the County of Hawaii should
have, and the minutes are available at the Legislative Auditor ' s
Office. I ' ve looked at them, and it ' s very interesting and
they ' ve done a lot of research on the forms of government. And
you might want to see why they selected the strong mayor versus
the city manager or maintain the Board of Supervisor type of
government. It ' s all in the minutes .
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C ieU lt: I second it.
,I1(U/k I second.
BETHEA : Alright. It ' s been moved and seconded that the
minutes as circulated be approved . Is there any discussion? All
in favor, please signify by saying aye.
COMMISSION : Aye.
BETHEA : All opposed. The motion is carried. The minutes
are approved. Ah, the next thing I have on my list, I 'm going to
ask Pete L'Orange to serve as our parlimentarian ; as those issues
come up , he can assist us in resolving them.
Would the record show that Co-Chairman Greenwell has joined
us .
GREENWELL : Thank you.
IV. DISCUSSION
A. Organizational Items
BETHEA: Ah , I do not know of any communication that came to
the Commission to the Mayor' s Office. . .
NAGAO : Just the handout.
BETHEA : Alright. There have been several handouts and I
will talk to you and people can remind me later about a method of
organizing all of this material that we have in front of us. We
have a number of internal items on our agenda that we need to
cover sometime before the end of the meeting--mainly, the. hiring
of an executive secretary , which is what you have charged me to
do.
Jan Bibb, bless her soul, has passed out a little sheet
which summarizes the negotiations I had with her and her office
space--if you want to talk about that a little bit and talk about
some of the other arrangements that have been made.
B. Guest Speaker : Ronald Ibarra
Topic : Charter and County Background and Operation
However, Mr. Ron Ibarra, who formerly was the Corporation
Counsel, and who also served as Managing Director of the County,
has come here to talk to us about the Charter as a legal
document. This is part of our Commission education program so
that as members we can get some view of what the Charter is
supposed to look like. And Mr. Ibarra is doing this strictly on a
voluntary basis and we appreciate it very much. I ' d like to ask
him to come before us now and he will be available for questions.
Ron, if you ' d like to sit up there so that. . .
IBARRA : Alright.
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BETHEA : Was that the 1963?
IBARRA: ' 63 was the beginning. So, that ' s the start.
BETHEA : Yeah, well this was. . .
IBARRA : ' 68. . .
BETHEA : Yeah, but this. . .this was the minutes that you ' re
referring to--the 1963 Charter Commission, or the 1968?
IBARRA : ' 63. Because at ' 63 we were still in the Board of
Supervisordays and so a group of people like yourself on the
Charter Commission, which was authorized by statute , then had the
task of deciding what form of government shall we have for the
County of Hawaii. And they took what , four or five years before
they could. . .came up with the present form of government . And I
say , it ' s interesting to read because they ' ve had speakers who
spoke on the city-manager-type of government , the strong-mayor-
type of government and other input from community groups prior to
making the decision as far as what to put out to the electorate as
far as the recommendation from the commission. So , I just mention
that because , you know, it ' s interesting reading and the
transcripts. . .it seems like it ' s verbatim. Like , I think Mr.
Greenwell was there , Mrs. Hale , and some of the names that you
recognize, and. . . .
GREENWELL : May I interject something? One of the reasons
we went to strong Mayor-type of government was because of the
obligating of the County by one of the supervisors of an amount
that was not authorized by the Board. And to get away from that
possiblility happening again, was one of the reasons why the
strong-mayor-type of government was considered the best , one
person that would be fully responsible.
IBARRA : So now I' d like to just give you a[n] overview and
discuss our present, as authorized under the County Charter, our
present form of government . I have a handout , which is an
organization chart , which you can follow with me. [Handout A. ]
And , when we talk about a strong-mayor-type of government , like
Mr. Greenwell said , actually the Charter authorizes two branches
of government : the legislative branch which is vested in the
Council and the executive branch which is vested in the Mayor.
Now, they are co-equal branches of government with different
functions , so when we talk about the strong-mayor type of
government, we ' re talking about a mayor who has veto powers .
And. . .you can have a mayor without a veto power and basically, the
mayor has no control or cannot veto what the legislative branch
passes. But when we talk about the strong mayor, that ' s what you
commonly talk about in municipal law , is a mayor with veto
powers. Okay. But , don ' t get me wrong. They ' re both co-equal
branches of government with different functions.
The Council, as the Charter says, is responsible for public
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policy making and legislation. And it can only act as a body, as
all of you know, nine members , and act upon the majority vote.
And whenever they take official action, they have to convene , just
like this Commission. They cannot take official action outside of
a meeting and their official action consists of , number one,
passing an ordinance, a law, or passing a resolution. And the
Charter prescribes that resolutions do not have the force and
effect of law unless under certain circumstances. Generally , the
laws that are passed by the Council are called ordinances. And
we. . .it ' s important to make the distinction, because ordinances
require two readings and a resolution requires only one to pass .
But , the. . .certainly , you can ask, what is public policy. And I
analogize it to like a corporation' s board of directors . You
know, you have the board that meets and sets the policies of the
corporation. And the executive branch, the mayor, is the one that
implements or carries out the directions of the policy makers.
So, under the Council, if you see , is a County Clerk. Also , I
didn ' t break it down further but there ' s also , the County Clerk
then appoints the Legislative Auditor. Okay . And the clerk is
responsible. . .is the is the a. . .is responsible for the elections
and he ' s also responsible for keeping the legal documents of the
County, executive orders that are sent from the Governor' s office
or other agencies. The clerk also. . .also is like a department
head on the legislative side. The clerk under the Charter hires
the. . . subject to the Civil Service laws of the state , hires the
necessary personnel for which appropriations have been made.
Now, when I say this is the organization chart pursuant to
Charter, as far as the executive branch, under the Charter, the
Charter also authorizes the mayor to delegate certain
responsibilities as he sees fit to various departments. So , if we
look on the executive branch, which is on the mayor ' s side , you
see under the mayor there is the managing director; and he seems
like the managing director has supervisory powers only for Public
Works, Parks and Recreation and Fire. And that is correct under
the Charter. And the rest of the agencies , by Charter, comes
directly under the mayor. However, I don 't know what Mayor Akana
is doing , but when Mayor Carpenter was in office , he. . .he
authorized the managing director [to have] supervisory control
over the other departments, as far as the day-to-day activities.
But , this is strictly Charter organization. I don' t think the
present administration is also following this. I doubt that they
are following this. Because I understand that the managing
director also is having day-to-day supervisory control over the
other staff departments[*] .
*The Carpenter administration named supervisory departments
"staff" departments (i.e. Finance , Corporation Counsel, Civil
Service , Safety, EEO , Information, and Planning for CIP purposes
only) . The other departments were referred to as "line"
departments (i.e. Aging, Civil Defense, Fire , H.R.A. , Housing,
Liquor , Mass Transit , Parks , Planning , Police , Public Works and
Water) .
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But if we go to the executive branch , as I said, all the
powers of the executive are vested in the mayor. This includes
the power to, yes.
L'ORANGE : Do you see any problem about (inaudible)?
IBARRA : No. No . Realistically . . .realistically , and it
certainly. . .realistically. . .the mayor. . .the mayor appoints the
managing director. So if the mayor tells the managing director, I
want you to supervise the rest of the 16 or 17 agencies , even
though the Charter says they ' re under the mayor, I don ' t think any
managing director in her right mind would say , hey mayor , the
Charter says you supervise . Because. . .
DUNCAN : Ron, what. . .what was the original (inaudible) now,
however , for breaking out of (inaudible) three under the managing
director?
IBARRA : Okay. If you look at the three departments under
the managing director, they ' re the most. . .they ' re the largest
departments in the County. Parks and Recs is the largest
department in the County with over 200 employees. Public Works ,
likewise. Fire. . .they ' re the largest line departments under
the. . .under. . .well , in the County organization. The rest , if you
like at. . .by it functions , they ' re either small line departments
that are overseen by commissions, or just pure staff . Like , for
example, in the Corp. Counsel, Finance , Planning , R&D,
Safety. . .they ' re all staff departments that should certainly have
direct access to the mayor for legal questions, financial
questions, planning , and research and development. . . responsible
for the development and assist in the. . .assist the public
secretary in obtaining federal funds , as well as the Safety
Coordinator, which is responsible for industrial accidents. So
they ' re basically staff. . .
BETHEA : Isn' t that the real difference , that they ' re staff ;
they perform a staff or advisory function. . .
IBARRA : . . .to the mayor.
BETHEA: Yeah, while the others are big operating
departments.
IBARRA : That ' s right , and I. . .
BETHEA : That ' s what it is.
IBARRA : And I think that another reason is that ,
certainly , I know some of you , or most of you here are managers in
your own occupation ; and as you know, you can ' t supervise too many
at one time. The span of control is. . .you can ' t be an effective
supervisor. But basically , this is the Charter setup. On the
right side, the staff departments authorized by County Charter,
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these are all the Corp. Counsel , Finance , Planning , Research and
Development, and Safety Department. . .they ' re all created by
Charter and directly supervised by the mayor. On the next line ,
Civil Service , Police, Liquor Control and Water Supply , now. . .the
Charter says they ' re under a Commission; however , the Charter also
says they come under the general administrative control over. . .of
the mayor. So , in that respect , the commission of those agencies
serve as policy makers for those commissions. But the
day-to-day. . .the administrative control falls under the .
supervision of the mayor. And, of course, some of these
commission[s] hears appeals concerning their director' s decision ,
such as Civil Service , when there is an employee in the County
that ' s challenging the director of Civil Service[ ' s]
decision. . .that person can appeal to the Civil Service
Commission.
As far as the Police Commission , the Police Commission is a
real strange case. The Police Commission in Hawaii County does
not have the authority--although they have the authority
indirectly , because they appointed the Police Chief , and the
Police Chief appoints, with the concurrence of the Commission, his
deputy--the Police Commission in essence cannot interfere ,
pursuant to the Charter , of the day-to-day activities of the
department. That is left to the Police Chief . And if the mayor
does not get involved in overseeing the day-to-day activities of
the Police Department , the Police Chief , in essence, would be
unsupervised. Okay. Because. . .I ' ll give you an example. There
are at times , unfortunately , when the public complains about
actions of a police officer. The Police Commission receives it
and will listen to it but basically has no authority to tell. . .or
direct, under the Charter--realistically, if they use their powers
right , they can because they appoint the Chief--but the. . . the
response always given is that the Commission cannot interfere with
the day-to-day activities of the Police Department. And that ' s
left to the Police Chief. However, under the Charter, you know,
the Charter vests the administrative supervision and control of
the department under the mayor. So , as Corp. Counsel, I ' ve taken
the. . .the opinion that then the mayor can intercede into the
day-to-day. . .into the day-to-day activities of the Police
Department. Similarly. . .
JUVIK : Excuse me.
IBARRA: Yes.
JUVIK : The. . .in this line, the Civil Service, Police and so
on. . .those department heads are not appointed by the mayor
obviously. They ' re appointed by the commissions. And, therefore,
it ' s not clear to me exactly if the mayor tells the Police Chief
to do something , a. . .
IBARRA : . . .and they don ' t follow it . . .
JUVIK : . . .where. . .and how. . .does that , however, break down?
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IBARRA : Yes , I thought of that when I was managing
director, because I had the responsibility of direct supervision;
and the next step I would have done was, certainly , appear before
the commission and tell them that I have problems with a
department head that they supervise . For example, I' ve a. . .on a
day-to-day basis as managing director, I rated all the department
heads. I evaluated them. And, certainly , if I felt that they
didn ' t comply with the mayor ' s general guidelines and the
administrative supervision and control, then I think our only
remedy is to come before the department and say , look , we ' ve asked
the chief or the director. . .Civil Service , Liquor , or even Water,
to do this administrative procedures, and they refused; please
take appropriate action. And. . . This. . . We also looked into the
matter as far as even suspending , you know, the department heads.
JUVIK : The basic rationale for having this buffer between
the. . .these particular units and the mayor is to. . .was to remove
these. . .
IBARRA : . . .political. . .
JUVIK : . . .from political. . .
IBARRA : . . .yes. . .
JUVIK : . . .interference. Was it not?
IBARRA : Yes. Yes, that ' s true.
BETHEA : Within the Police Commission , they went one step
further in--as I. . .as I understand it, and I ' ll ask Ron this
question. In the Police Commission, they went one step further
and said that the commission, unlike the Water Commission, shall
not interfere in any way with the administration of the
department, which was left to the mayor, I mean, which was left to
the Chief of Police , except for the language that said the Police
Department shall come under the general supervision. . .
IBARRA : . . .general supervision. . .
BETHEA : . . .and control of the mayor. So I think the idea
is they didn' t want the commission to be able to get in to
sensitive areas of the department , that the department might be
working on.
IBARRA : Yeah.
BETHEA : I presume that that ' s the reason for the
difference, I don' t know.
IBARRA : We ' ve had. . .we ' ve had cases where a citizen would
complain about green harvest , for example , to the commission, and
saythat we should not have thepolicego out on operation green
P
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harvest. And we should stop it--it ' s a waste of taxpayers ' money ,
etcetera, etcetera. And certainly I guess some of you have heard ,
like Mr. Bethea stated , that they should. . .you know , the members
shall not , of course , except for the purposes of inquiry and they
cannot interfere with administrative affairs of the department.
And so and so, you know, the administrative supervision comes
under general supervision and control. It was not tested, because
most of the departments, in fact , all of the department heads were
very cooperative in that respect. And their. . .
BETHEA : May I ask you a specific question, Mr. Ibarra? We
have this section in here which says the Chief of Police shall be
the administrative head of the Police Department .
IBARRA : Yes.
BETHEA : And then it goes on to say, it has (inaudible) of
the power and duties of functions as may be required by the Police
Commission, which throws in a little element that. . .a little. . . I
don ' t quite understand . But then there ' s a Section 7.7-2.7 which
says the Police Department shall come under the general
supervision and control of the mayor. Is there a conflict , or
should there be greater clarity in what is meant by the statement
that the chief is the administrative head and , at the same time ,
the Police Department shall come under the general supervision and
control of the Mayor? Is that. . .is there an uncertainty there?
IBARRA : The. . .the Police Commission has the authority to
promulgate rules and regulations. And they did promulgate rules
and regulations pertaining to the firing and the hiring of the
Chief. I would. . .I would. . .I would suspect that the Police
Commission, and I feel. . .should be allowed to a. . .to a. . .to tell
the Chief , as far as policies , as far as. . .as far as what his
functions and responsibilities are. And, as far as. . .certainly ,
Mr. Bethea, you can see there ' s a conflict , because if this comes
under the general control and supervision of the Mayor, but
yet. . .if there is a. . .the Chief can have other powers , duties and
functions as may be required by the Police Commission or provided
by law. (Inaudible) conflicts the Mayor (inaudible) remain under
general supervision and control. But I would say that the Section
C, which pertains to the powers , duties and functions should be
construed only pertaining to the broad. . .broad areas in the
department--powers , duties and functions--not necessarily the
general everyday operation [and] administration of the department.
JUVIK : Un-huh. Excuse me. Are you. . .are you saying that
should in case you raised (inaudible) green harvest , are you
saying that the Police Commission should be able to tell the
Police Chief, yes, carry on green harvest , or no, don' t carry on
green harvest?
IBARRA : No, I don ' t feel that the Police Commission should
have that authority , although I believe that the Police Commission
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should have the authority to investigate wrongdoings which ,
presently, they do not do. Honolulu department does and so
another reference is , of course, you have a long task ahead of you
and certainly, going to other jurisdictions. I know the Honolulu
Police Commission investigates allegations of police wrongdoing .
Our department does not. What happens is it goes back to the
department , you know, so it ' s like the department investigating
their own wrongdoing.
JUVIK : Un-huh.
IBARRA : And I know Honolulu commission does have the
authority to investigate wrongdoings but right now our department
does not have. Or at least it hasn ' t been exercised except for
purposes of inquiry .
JUVIK : So what does the Police Commission spend most of its
time doing?
IBARRA : Well, that ' s a good question and I' ve. . .I' ve
attended some Police Commission meetings and they last anywhere
from 5 minutes to 20 minutes. The. . .you know, I. . .to answer you
bluntly , I think the Police Commission just listens to what the
Chief tells ' em. You know, as far as crime rates , and. . .in fact ,
I' m not saying this is our commission , but there ' s a. . .there ' s a
danger of certainly of. . .of like any parttime agency just barely
rubber stamping the fulltime director ' s proposals , etcetera.
And. . .a. . .that ' s why I. . .when I was managing director, I felt that
it was imperative that the mayor' s office exercise the
provision--general supervision and control of the mayor--as to the
day-to-day activites, you know, such as reviewing overtime,
reviewing sick leave , all this day-to-day stuff, because if the
commission doesn' t do it , then no one will. The Police Chief and
the other department directors would go unchecked.
JUVIK : So you would assume, as well as the citizens ,
oversight (inaudible) keep track of the. . .what ' s going on in the
Police Department , in terms of public interest?
IBARRA : Yeah. I would think that the commission, yes. . .
getting input from the citizens and would tell the Chief , look ,
we ' re having. . .here we have a lot of marijuana problems, why don' t
you pursue marijuana. And not tell the chief , pursue it by doing
green harvest or undercover (inaudible) like that.
JUVIK : More so. . .acting as a liaison from the public to the
Chief , so to speak?
IBARRA : I. . . I. . . I think the. . .the. . .that ' s one purpose.
Because , supposedly , the commissioners are all lay people ,
supposed to be more accessible to the public , and the public has a
forum to go and express their their concerns. And that one
purpose, certainly , is the commission to. . .after hearing all of
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this , to address it at the commission meetings , as far as the
direction they ' d like the Police Chief to pursue. And, as I said,
as a practical matter, when your boss tells you something , you
know, you would follow it.
L ' ORANGE : What ' s you ' re kind of saying is that, I
mean. . .what I mean to is the broad , general parts of the Charter
are sufficient maybe in the practical day-to-day and it developes
rules, procedure and administrative suggestion coming through the
managing director as to how they operate , rather than to spell out
specifically that they shall do keep track of overtime and. . .
IBARRA : That. . .that ' s true. Yes. And that ' s. . .
L' ORANGE: . . .whatever.
IBARRA : And that ' s where I see the general supervision and
control of the day-to-day.
JUVIK : Although (inaudible) may present the complaints,
that might be part of some Charter. . .
IBARRA : Yes.
JUVIK : . . . (inaudible) .
IBARRA : Yes. Because, I think even our present
commissioners , when this recent incident regarding the department ,
and you know. And, you know, the comments made was our hands are
tied ; the Charter doesn' t allow us to anything except for the
purpose of inquiry.
BETHEA. Yeah. Under the under the Charter, would you
agree that that is the correct interpretation?
IBARRA : I think so.
BETHEA : I would think so too. Just reading in that book.
IBARRA: Yes. I think there ' s Corp. Counsel (inaudible)
that too.
BETHEA : Pardon me?
IBARRA : I think the Corp. Counsel ' s advise is similar too.
And that ' s why the Police Commission at that time did not act .
DUNCAN : Ron, would you say. . .
GREENWELL: We don' t have the authority (inaudible) .
DUNCAN : . . .would you say that the this probably applies
to all these departments that are authorized by Charter, I mean,
these commissions?
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IBARRA: All the departments--the Civil Service , Police ,
Liquor Control, Water Supply--has that last phrase, that shall
come under the general supervision and control of the mayor.
DUNCAN : Uh-huh.
IBARRA : And that ' s the provision that certainly we ' d use to
sort of pull the departments together. Because if the departments
feel that they are autonomous, that. . .because they have their own
budget--such as Water, and don' t have to have any Council
appropriation--then there ' s no person giving the agencies
direction and they go and that ' s what the problem I found as
managing director, sometimes the agencies all go different ways ;
and someone has to pull them together and give them leadership ,
set the direction.
GREENWELL : This also is another example of a strong mayor.
IBARRA: Yes.
DUNCAN : Uh-huh.
IBARRA : So, that ' s the a. . .that Civil Service is a creature
of also, not only our Charter but state statute. So, the. . .they
have to follow state law as far as the employment, the merit merit
system, etcetera. The. . .and of course , Civil Service is
responsible for the. . . and I 'll just give you a broad overview
of. . .collective bargaining and the personnel matters of the
County--the merit system, preserving the merit system. I take it ,
you know, these department heads will be coming before you folks
in the future , as far as their specific. . .
GREENWELL: Civil Service in a way should be somewhat free
of political pressure. There ' s nothing in any of these
sections. . .that last section that limits the general supervision
and control by the mayor. You could almost take over completely,
couldn ' t you?
IBARRA : Except that , Mr. Greenwell, that the state statute
prescribes the procedures that the director must follow, in the
hiring, terminating. So, in essence, the mayor can tell the
director like any other director, look , I want you to hire
Employee A. But the director should be strong enough and say,
look, he has to comply or she has to comply with the Civil Service
laws, that is, examination, be certified in the top five and then
the appointing authority interviews. . .
GREENWELL : That ' s in hiring and firing.
IBARRA : Yes.
GREENWELL : But there are other things in other departments
that he ' s given a great deal of authority over.
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IBARRA : But the. . . really, generally speaking , the mayor
has
a lot of authority , and should have , over his. . .over the
departments , just by the mere fact that they ' re all appointed
except the ones that are appointed by the commission. They can
all be terminated, except the Corp. Counsel , without the
concurrence of the Council. So once they ' re appointed and
confirmed, such as the Finance Director, Planning, R&D, P&R ,
Public Works and Fire, they can be terminated without cause ,
without concurrence of the Council. So that in itself is a. . .
GREENWELL: Going back to what I said earlier, the problem
was the purchasing agent purchased without the authority of the
Board of Supervisors at the suggestion of a supervisor. And this
is what they tried to get away from by going to the strong mayor
and having that one person in authority. Everything then had to
be approved of by the Council.
JUVIK : Excuse me, Ron. The commissioners themselves in
these , you know Civil Service , Police and so on, do not serve at
the pleasure of the mayor, do they?
IBARRA: No, they serve for a fixed term.
JUVIK : So, there , a new mayor does not automatically mean
new commissioners in those. . .
IBARRA : No.
JUVIK : . . .in those. . .
BETHEA : He ' s appointed. . . the mayor appoints and the Council
confirms.
JUVIK : Right, but they ' re not all going out when the new
mayor comes in?
IBARRA : No.
BETHEA: No.
IBARRA : The state commission, and I know certain governors ,
have asked resignations from their commissioners , even though they
don ' t automatically. . .are co-terminous with the. . .now that ' s
really political. But under the County Charter, these people are
not co-terminous with the term of the office of the mayor.
OMONAKA: Mr. Ibarra?
IBARRA : Yes.
OMONAKA : Coming back to the Police Commission.
(Inaudible) . . .problems that you observed. We find that the
commissioners are appointed by. . . in the district in which there ' s
37
a (inaudible) . And there the Police Commission ' s a good sounding
board for the. . .in the community, of a problem. You know, I' ve
seen it work where the commission member would go to the police or
to the administrator and discuss the problem (inaudible) . So,
despite the fact that you said that , you know, they do these
(inaudible) so (inaudible) .
IBARRA : Yeah.
BETHEA : Possibly arising from the potential clout that they
could have, in that they could fire the Chief .
ONONAKA : Yes.
IBARRA : Yes. And I 'm not saying don ' t get me wrong , I 'm
not saying the commissioners aren' t performing. . .performing a
useful function. I'm saying that I 'm just pointing out the area
where I think this committee. . .the commission should look into, as
far as the allegations against police misconduct and. . .as a result
of our recent incident. And I agree with you certainly ; they
reside in the district and they ' re more accessible to the public.
And, certainly , the even a one-on-one call to the Chief or the
department head, certainly would. . .hopefully, the department head
would take heed to that .
CUSHNIE : Ron.
IBARRA: Yes.
CUSHNIE : Excuse me. Is it difficult to fill the commission
positions?
IBARRA : No.
CUSHNIE : So you feel that there really is an honest effort
there on the part of the commissioners , to be accessible to the
public? You don' t feel that we ' re placing a burden on the public
by making so many commissions responsible for the day-to-day or
even general running of these departments?
IBARRA: I don' t think. . .first of all, there ' s. . .there
haven ' t been any problem that I 'm aware of as far as appointing
commissioners. I think certainly the mayor' s. . .lots of volunteers
out in the private sector, are willing to serve. I think once
they ' re appointed though, I think there should be more publicity
that they are the commissioners. And that ' s why, at least when I
was managing director, I asked the. . . all of the commissions. . .all
the commissions to at least publish, even though if they ' re not
required under state law, publicize their meetings , so at least
you get more public input. And that , once I know. . .once the
public knows of the commission within her district, that that
commissioner would be more accessible to the people when they
call. Although sometimes , depending on the funtion of the
38
commissioner who is performing, sometimes it is illegal to take
what they call exparte communication. For example , the commission
is acting as an ajudicatory body making a decision, as Mr. Bethea
knows. An exparte communication with the commissioner is
improper, and we tell the commissioner that. Look, if you ' re
having a planning commission hearing or something like that , it ' s
un. . .it ' s not proper for you to just meet with the petitioner and
receive all the evidence and. . .your fellow commissioners doesn ' t
know what ' s going on, and it ' s best to just bring it before the
whole commission to discuss. And, of course , I 'm not naive,
things like that do go on, but at least we tell the
commissioners.
I don ' t think the commissioners should be held responsible
for the day-to-day activities of the department , for the following
reasons. No. 1 : If they are held responsible for the day-to-day
activities, it ' s going to take a lot of time. And certainly , as
some of you know who ' ve been on the Council, how much time you
have to put in. But if you were involved in the day-to-day
activities of the department , it ' s going to involve more time and,
secondly , certainly that ' s what you have the department heads
for. The department heads should be. . .that ' s how I feel about
confirmation; if they 're not competent to run the department on a
day-to-day basis , then they should not be confirmed. However, I
don ' t feel the commissioners should be involved in the day-to-day
activities of the department. I think, certainly , like the
gentlemen here points out , that should be a sounding board for the
members of the community and certainly they should be a check on
the department head , as far as their getting out of control and
not complying with the policies.
CUSHNIE : Are you protected by a Good Samaritan Law?
IBARRA : The Good Samaritan Law. . .you ' re talking about if
you ' re. . .if you tried to rescue someone and in the process you ' re
injured, that you cannot be sued?
CUSHNIE : No, more generally in the sense that if somebody
did happen to complain against the Police Department, and if you
determined that the Police Commission had absolute authority , I
mean, where does the legality stop? You feel that has to be
better defined, who ' s legally responsible for policy.
IBARRA : I think, certainly, the. . .you ' re talking about
liability. And as far as a failure to act , the general rule in
municipal law is that, you owe the government agency, or the
government official or employee owes a general duty to the
public . And unless there is a special relationship. . .meaning that
I ' ll (inaudible) , that government official would not be liable for
the injuries suffered by the plaintiff. For examle, if you had a
person that was injured and called for an ambulance. Okay , in
Hawaii we don ' t have have the 911 service. So a person calls for
an ambulance and and the dispatcher says, fine, took the
address, makes no representation as how fast the ambulance will be
39
there, and the ambulance just goes along its normal course , but
didn' t reach the patient in time and unfortunately the patient
died, now the patient is suing the County , saying that you. . .but
for your slowness and things like that , not even. . .or, you could
have a 911 and things like that , the patient gonna die.
Generally , a government municipality will not be responsible ;
however, if the dispatcher told the caller that , don' t worry,
we ' ll be there in five minutes , and the ambulance then arrives in
ten minutes, and the patient died in this beyond five minutes ,
then, because of the representation, that is creation of a special
relationship--that kind of representation. And , therefore, in
answer to his question, generally the mere failure of a public
official to execute his duties would) not be deemed that the
person. . .or public official is responsible. I say generally.
Now if he violates a specific statute that says you must do
this and they don' t, well see, the statute creates that duty and
standard and under the law, the violation of that statute , if you
can show certain elements, raises presumptions of negligence and
infers that that person is negligent . . .the government official is
negligent. And we have that kind of a situation.
But, in response to the Police Commission, the mere failure
to act without (inaudible) would not. . .I don ' t think any court
would find the commission responsible. Certainly , I'm not talking
about the public outcry ; that ' s a different story.
BETHEA: Ron, while you 're talking about these departments ,
one of the things that I noticed is that I never could make the
connection of how Public Works , Parks & Recreation exactly got
under the managing director. I only saw the Charter, but. . .the
thing that. . .as you said , with respect to all of the departments ,
the things that tied them together, even those operating under
commission, is the general statement that they come under the
general supervision and control of the mayor. I noticed that with
respect to Public Works , Parks & Recreation and the Fire
Department, that their. . .that that language was not there. And
what it really seemed to be with respect to those two
parties. . .those three departments that there were a lot more
Council control in that the power of duties and functions are
prescribed by ordinance.
IBARRA: That ' s right.
BETHEA : With respect to the Civil Service Commission, you
have state statutes which control a lot of their activities. With
respect to the Police Department , the Chief, the Chief is the
administrative officer and he makes a lot of those decisions and
they aren ' t decisions that are made by the Council, so there seems
to be kind of another variable in there in that those three
departments are subject really (inaudible) pretty closely to the
County Council, what the the County Council decides. And they
don' t have that connecting line that , you now, subject to the
general supervision of the mayor. Is that because they fall under
40
the managing director and it ' s just assumed that the mayor will
have a. . .
IBARRA : No, I think, . if you look at the. . .aside from the
Police Department , basically , these are all the services that we
provide to the public. The basic governmental-type
services. . . (changed tape--some missing conversation) We provide
services to the public and certainly , I would say. . .I say that the
Council then can expand or delete their duties as necessary
as. . .so they can meet the public demand by ordinance.
BETHEA : Yeah.
IBARRA : So. . .
L' ORANGE : Ron? (Inaudible) commissioners (inaudible) when
they have how do you handle misconduct by a commissioner?
What ' s the. . .
IBARRA : Okay. In order for a commissioner to be removed,
he has to be by mayor and concurred. . .Council concurrence. In
fact, we had the. . .an incident a few years back, one of the police
commissioners was removed by the Council and. . .
L 'ORANGE : . . .what is wrong on this. . .what if the citizen
complains, what is the vehicle?
IBARRA : To the Mayor.
L' ORANGE: Oh.
IBARRA: Certainly the Mayor and the Council, because even
if the mayor says , I want to remove this commission, if the
Council does not concur, the commissioner cannot be removed. So
both sides have to of course , the mayor initiates and the
Council concurs.
BETHEA : Is that by ordinance or what. . .
IBARRA: Yes.
BETHEA : . . .is that?
IBARRA: Ah, yes. Boardsand commissions.
BETHEA : The what?
IBARRA : Page 13. . .page 27, 13-4. Let' s see here.
BETHEA: Okay.
IBARRA : B. Subsection B.
41
BETHEA: Uh-huh.
IBARRA : Members shall appointed to the mayor. . .by the mayor
and confirmed by Council and may be removed. . .
BETHEA : So that ' s the general section that applies to all. . .
IBARRA: Boards and commissions. 13-4, page 27.
JUVIK : Excuse me excuse me!, gentlemen. I appreciate your
comments on the commissions. I'm familiar with what goes on in
the Water Commission. What is the Liquor. . .Liquor Control
Commission? What does the commission have to do?
IBARRA : Well, the Liquor. . .they approve licenses.
JUVIK : This is the director?
IBARRA : Yeah. Licenses. Liquor licenses.
JUVIK : The commission itself?
IBARRA : Yes. The director processes the application and
presents it (inaudible) . And the commission will act on the
licenses, whether to grant or deny, ! pursuant to state law again.
See Liquor is again. . .is like Civil Service ; they have to follow
state law. As far as the elements necessary to be found in order
for a license to. . .to be given a license.
JUVIK : That ' s what I thought, so, I mean their. . . Aren ' t
they more or less constrained? I mean , do they actually have much
power? Or does that mean they can vote down the liquor license if
they don ' t like it, even though state (inaudible) .
IBARRA : Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Certainly, a lot of
times. . .even though the statute prescribes certain requirements
that they must follow before they can grant the license. Lot of
times these statutes are open for construc. . .interpretation and
the Liquor Commission, just like yourself , we all can interpret
things differently and , rarely , unless there ' s an abuse of
discretion, rarely will the Court overrule that , even though the
Court may not agree , unless it ' s clearly erroneous and an abuse of
discretion. So, I 'm saying the Liquor. Commission looks at the
elements required for a license to be granted , you know, the
minimum square footage. Some are definite. And, of course , hold
public hearings , take public input , before making the final
decision. But once they make the decision and certainly, we ' re
all human beings, they may make it in error, and then the
petitioner ' s recourse is to appeal that to the Circuit Court. You
know, to get the decision reversed.
L 'ORANGE : Entertainment permits also?
42
IBARRA : Yeah.
L' ORANGE : Entertainment permits?
IBARRA: Yes. Yeah.
BETHEA : Ron, just while we ' re talking about the departments
under commission , I noticed , and I never found the definition for
it if it ' s there , but sometimes with respect to the appointment of
the commission. . .of commissioners , you have two differences. One
of them, for example, in the Planning Commission, they use
language, they shall be representative of the community and of
County geographical areas. And then they will mention that. . .in
other things. . .in other commissions , for example , the Police
Commission, they require residence of the combined districts of
North and South Kona and they go specifically by districts. So
they say, you can have one from the combined district of this and
that, and with respect to some other commissions , they use
language, shall be representative of the community and of the
County geographical areas. So there are two different
qualifications. Does. . .if you know, and it may never have come
up , so I ' m not surprised if you don' t. Does this mean, without
saying it , that some of them you can have at-large people? Is
that what they mean by representative of community? And are
geographical areas the same. . .
IBARRA: I don ' t know.
BETHEA : . . .as districts?
IBARRA : I think, and certainly I never found the reason.
But from reading the minutes , I think that it depends on what the
commission function is. If it ' s a. . .if the commission. . .
OMANAKA : Probably rules and regs.
IBARRA : Yeah. Rules and regs or their authority would
pertain to certain geographical areas of the County, then you ' d
have the district member. Whereas if, like the. . .if it just
pertains to the County in general without pertaining, and you
don ' t need district input, then it would be. . . represent the County
community at-large.
BETHEA : Well, what I 'm saying, let me ask it this way : Is
there any ordinance. . .does this document as a legal document speak
for itself?
IBARRA: Yes .
BETHEA : Or is. . .does the Council have the right by
ordinance to give meaning to this thing?
IBARRA : No.
43
BETHEA: If it doesn' t, you see , then there is a specific
difference between the Planning Commission which says membership
shall be representative of the community and of the County
geographical area. That ' s the only time with respect to two or
three of the commissions they have that identical language.
Others talk about not representative of the community, but you ' ve
got to be a judicial district , the combined district of North and
South Kona, which district referred to what we commonly think of
as the judicial district. North and South Hilo. . .
IBARRA : District .
BETHEA : North and South Kona, Hamakua, etcetera. I ' ve
always been confused , what are the geographical areas of these
districts? Are they some other division?
GREENWELL : Judicial.
OMANAKA : I think, basically , I think in the police. . .in the
case of the Police Commission, they basically represent where a
substation is set up. You know, Ka ' u.
IBARRA : Ka ' u. Okay. The composition of the commission , as
you pointed out, is enumerated in the section pertaining to that
department. For example , Police Commission , it specifically
states seven members , two of whom residents of combined district
of North and South Kohala. Those are expressly stated. You know,
as far as, you cannot deviate. . .
BETHEA: Exactly.
IBARRA : . . .on that. And not by ordinance or anything
else. The only way that the Charter can be superseded is by state
general law. The state constitution, I think it was Article VII,
grants the counties the authority to have a charter form of
government , subject to general laws by the state. So. . .
BETHEA : It ' s important , I think , to know that .
IBARRA : So , what ' s. . . basically , the County Charter as we
call is , is the County constitution , which can only be superseded
by state general law. County ordinance says that are in
conflict. . .would be superseded by the state , I mean , by County
Charter.
BETHEA : Yeah. I want to pass on from this , because I don ' t
want to get bogged down. But I just point out to the commission
members that at one time they talk about geographical areas and
other times they talk about specific districts. If there should
be a difference, we really need to just clean it. . .think about
just cleaning it up. So, sir, would you go on then. . .
IBARRA : Yes. Okay.
44
an appropriation then. . .if you 're not going to follow the
appropriations. . .
BETHEA : That ' s the other side.
IBARRA: . . .and certainly , Mr. Greenwell said , you know ,
he 's in favor of a lump-sum type of appropriation, which is like
if the federal government. In the County ' s budget , the budget is
really by line item for a specific. . .for specific purposes, unlike
the line-item type of budget . And certainly , that kind of limits
the flexibility onr the administration. But I think the
percentage amount , because when. . .at least the last budget , I
went . . . I had. . . I met with each department head and I sat down with
them and went over line by line , asking then how you came up with
this figure and I had their accountant there to justify. And so,
a certain percentage of that I could just. . .
NAGAO : I hate to interrupt, but when there ' s a lot of
cross-talk, which just occurred , several of you talking over each
other, and talking at the same time, when I go to transcribe , it ' s
almost impossible to put it down and typewrite it. You can see by
the (inaudible) . If you could just be more sensitive to your
comments, maybe address the chair or something , it would be easier
on the transcription. Thank you.
BETHEA : Okay. The rules provide, and I think they are good
rules. Questions do not have to be asked from the chair and I
think that ' s better for us to be able to. . .any commission member,
to be able to address a specific question to whoever is
testifying. I think that ' s the more correct way of doing it. But
I guess we really do have to watch that , and I 'm as bad as
everybody (inaudible) been in court. . .
NAGAO : It ' s just a reminder.
BETHEA : Right. Okay. Ron, do you have. . .
IBARRA: Yes.
BETHEA : . . .other points that you want to. . .
IBARRA: Yes. There is the matter of contract in the
present Charter. . .
NISHIKAWA : Excuse me. Before we move on. . .I ' d like to
(inaudible) regarding the financial procedures. I heard a
complaint where the Council does not have enough time to work with
the budget when it ' s presented to them by the mayor.
IBARRA : Yes, right now, I believe that the. . .I forgot the
exact date where the. . .16th. . .16th of April , or May , was it?
JUVIK : May.
45
IBARRA: May. This is 10-3. Okay , it ' s 10-2, within ten
working days after the state Legislature , but not later than May
1st of each year, the mayor shall submit to the County
Council. . . so, May 1st , not later than May 1st , the mayor submits
the budget to the County Council. And the Council has up to June
30th to adopt it. . .to pass it. If not , the budget submitted by
the mayor is deemed the budget. So we have May and really June ,
two months. Certainly , the argument again. . .the pros and cons,
okay , is. . .the reason that the ten days after the close of the
state Legislature , but not later than May 1st of each year was
designated was because the state Legislature , I say generally , I
hope it ' s generally , gives the counties grants-in-aid. And so
when that comes out after the Legislature , that is generally
incorporated into the administration ' s budget , as far as having a
balanced budget submitted to the Council.
The argument against that is certainly well , let ' s leave
that open and see what we get from the state , and the Council
would then plug it in. So. . .
NISHIKAWA : What if we move the fiscal area. Rather than
starting in July , maybe in August?
IBARRA : Okay . I think if you do that, for general
accounting purposes , either you gonna. . .general accounting
purposes , your fiscal either go on calendar year or fiscal year,
which is July 1st , or the federal fiscal year, which is October?
And, you know, that ' s really a policy decision.
GREENWELL: Might be. . .mightn' t this fiscal year be set by
statute?
IBARRA : I don ' t think. . .I think as far as the Charter, as
far as budget submission. . .
GREENWELL : Oh, (inaudible) .
IBARRA: . . .it ' s entirely left to the. . .
GREENWELL : (Inaudible) County.
IBARRA: . . .yes , the Charter Commission.
GREENWELL : Yeah.
BETHEA : I don ' t know whether there is a legal prohibition
against having any other fiscal year, like you suggested , may be
possible. Like for organizations that aren ' t subject to federal
tax laws. Well, even though, you can have any fiscal year that
you want.
IBARRA : You might ask your finance directors, because there
might be some accounting problems as far as closing of the books
and paying of the bills for the fiscal year. I 'm not a
46
(inaudible) in finance , so that ' s a question you might ask the
finance director, if he has any objections as far as closing the
fiscal year. I don' t know , whatever you suggest . But that was
one of the points that was raised, yes.
DUNCAN : Ron , I do have a question. I think that your
suggestion of percentages might. . .might be a good approach. I
wonder, however, if the overall concern should be (inaudible)
misappropriation of funds. I think that the idea of flexibility
is extremely important in running a department . I mean , I know
even in private corporations when you do your budgets, at times
your priorities do change , as markets change , as situations
change. What is. . .in terms of evaluating t.his. . .how the funds are
used in different departments , how is this mandatory program you
view in Section 3-17 done in reality? Is that an effective
mechanism, for the Council to review how County funds are used,
and whether or not they ' re used effectively?
IBARRA: I. . .presently , at least , this program has been
carried out at the budget hearings. And certainly , if you look at
this mandatory program review , it says at once every four years.
And I think that ' s a very affective way, certainly, and I
discussed it with some of the Council members that said that , so
we don' t get shot dead when we. . .I 'm not the administration
anymore . . .so the administration doesn' t get shot down at the
budget hearing , that the Council committees can review programs
within their areas , such as Public Works , as far as whether or not
they want to fund sewage treatment plans or roads, etcetera, and
not just wait for the budget review time where it looks like the
administration and legislative branch is fighting because at that
time, there ' s a review and the Council may not agree with the
projects the administration submits. But if the administration is
giving notice ahead of time that these are the projects that we
want to fund, so that the administration can put in the
appropriate money funding this project , I think that would be
a. . .insure a smoother budget hearing. And sometimes politicians
want controversy .
L 'ORANGE : Is there anything in the budget process that
would preclude the administration and the Council getting together
on a budget in December--even before the Legislature? so that
you ' re going to the Legislature with the same program and you have
a preliminary review and all the time to look over it, and then
(inaudible) May 1st you do the official budget which has the funds
in there? It seems like procedurally the problem could be solved
if both sides would (inaudible) .
IBARRA : (Inaudible. )
L' ORANGE: . . .participate in the process .
GREENWELL : One of the problems is that the priorities of
the Legislature may be different than the priorities of the
47
Council. And the budget set up , let ' s say in December, could be
drastically changed by the monies appropriated to the County by
the Legislature , because of there not being funds for those
specific items they wanted the money for. The Legislature is just
about as picky as the Council is in setting up funds for specific
things .
DUNCAN : I understand , Pete , you saying that the County
should go with a common voice.
L'ORANGE : Yeah. That ' s it.
GREENWELL: Well , they do. But the thing is that the
Legislature doesn' t always give monies for the purposes the County
is asking for. And so the change in the budget may be a drastic
one.
L' ORANGE : Oh, I realize that, but when you ' re reviewing
it . . .if you reviewed it together previously , the two-month time
from May 1st to June 30th, you ' ve just gone over the changes
because of what your referring to , you 're not having to review the
whole thing in public hearing in 60 days.
BETHEA: Ron , could you go on with your particular
(inaudible) .
IBARRA : Yes. The other provision that needs to be looked
at is Section 13-13 pertaining to contracts. And. . .
BETHEA : 13-13?
IBARRA : Yeah. It ' s page 28 (tape change, lost some
conversation) the officer of the County to be the (unclear) . I
preface these remarks, as an aside. . .you may have the most
ironclad constitution or charter or contract , but if the players
aren ' t cooperative or follow the document , you ' re always going to
have problems. Whereas if you don' t have a document and you have
honorable players, I 'm not saying the players are not honorable ,
but you don' t have to have documents that are ironclad. But , the
contract section that authorizes onlythe
mayor to sign contracts
on behalf of the County comes up in the situation where the
Council may want to hire a consultant and the mayor may not want
to sign that contract. And , so now we have a separation of
powers ' conflict here. And certainly I researched this when I was
corporation counsel , that I' ve always told the department heads
that if the Council demands information, and the purpose of this
is, you know, the contract (inaudible) mayor.
But when the Council demands certain information, that the
department heads should cooperate fully as far as providing
Council with the information so that the Council can make policy.
The biggest complaint by the Council at times is that the
department heads do not share information, so how can they make
policy? And they cannot get their own consultant. But even with
48
this provision, the . . . says that the contracts signed by the
mayor. . .in certain situations I feel that the mayor' s duty would
be mini-stereo.
Once the Council establishes that they have demanded
information from the administration , for example Planning , and the
Planning Department Director and the mayor says, well , either
your ' e not going to have it or they don ' t provide it. And after a
reasonable time , the legislative branch should be authorized to
hire their own consultant to provide that information. And this
is established by Hawaii Supreme Court . It says, you have to
demand upon the adminis . . .Honolulu. . .City & County of Honolulu
case. . .you have to demand upon the administration the information,
allow reasonable time to be provided . If not , then you can hire .
And the purpose of this, you can see , is so that we don ' t
duplicate. You know, you don' t want to have the situation where
the Council is going out on their own hiring this. . .consultant ,
administration , although the purpose for which the consultant is
hired by the Council may be provided by the department. And we
have Planning , we have Public Works , engineers and things like
that. And we don ' t want to duplicate and waste the taxpayers '
money. But at a certain point in time , there again I say , the
players. . .you know , do not accept their responsibility , and then
certainly the Council should be allowed the opportunity. And at
that stage , though , even if you want to keep the contracting
authority as far as the signing of documents and the mayor, at
that stage the mayor has no choice (inaudible) . But the mayor has
to sign once the showing has been , and the Mayor has to sign the
contract.
GREENWELL : Mr. Chairman, this last year there was a problem
where the administration wanted an approval from the Council on
the Boyd Hansen contract for the Puna Rubbish Dump . And it seemed
at the time as though we were being told that this was to be
signed without the Council ' s having the opportunity to find out
just what was going to be signed , because we were going to be just
as responsible as the mayor. We eventually got the information.
IBARRA: Yeah. What Mr. Greenwell is talking about is , if a
contract requires an encumbrance of monies more than one fiscal
year, the Council must approve. And certainly the rationale
behind this is so that the Council is committed in funding , or
appropriating that money in the next fiscal year. And , now , the
question really comes down to if you are before the legislative
body and you present the legislative body with a contract for
approval, certainly I don 't see any problem with the legislative
body just rejecting that and say , we don ' t like the contract . But
where I would have a. . .well. . .an uneasy feeling is where the
Council, the legislative branch, starts dictating the
negotiation. Because that ' s again an administrative function.
GREENWELL: Not only that , but the only thing is we should
know what we' re approving.
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1
IBARRA: Yes , I agree.
BETHEA : Let me ask you specifically , where is this contract
language? And I have the contract 13 (inaudible) .
IBARRA : No, no, it ' s under the financial provision, Section
10. Okay , it ' s 10-11 , in the second paragraph, that any contract ,
lease or other obligation requiring the payment of funds from the
appropriations of a later fiscal , or if more than one fiscal year,
shall be made or approved by resolution.
BETHEA: Which paragraph of of 10-11?
IBARRA: The second paragraph, last sentence.
CUSHNIE: Mr. Ibarra, could the difference have been with
the Boyd Hansen contract that we were not, if I remember
correctly , we were not allocating money but rather we were
granting. . .
IBARRA : The use of. . .
CUSHNIE : . . .the use of the dock, which was a tangible asset
to Mr. Hansen?
IBARRA : In the. . .yes , and one of the legislative
responsibilities is again , authorized use of County property to
enter into a , like a , lease or a contract for the use of County
property.
BETHEA : Why doesn ' t this come up as a budget item? I mean,
you know, the Council sets up the budget. . .
IBARRA : Yeah.
BETHEA : . . .approves the budget. The County. . .if the mayor
want the County to enter into a contract , which is a cost to the
County, why isn ' t it part of the budget that the Council approves?
IBARRA: Okay. There ' s a loophole in there. First of all,
if you were a businessman that. . . selling services to the County,
say, maybe dirt , and you can get it cheap , or you want to buy dirt
for five years. Well the budget only goes to one fiscal year. So
how can you buy in the County without an appropriation? So by
having the Council approve that contract by resolution, you
essentially. . .the Council is committing itself to funding that
contract for a later fiscal year. How the administration gets
around that and. . . I don ' t know if it ' s. . .well , I haven ' t
recommended that they do this , not when I was corp. council
anyway. Yet they go year to year. You know , it ' s like , okay ,
five years , we ' ll just go for this year, or sign a year contract ,
and then get another one another year, another one another year.
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So they get around the. . .requiring appropriations of a later
fiscal year.
BETHEA : What I 'm asking is how do they make the first
appropriation that the Council has?
IBARRA : The first budget year. In the budget session. . .in
the budget hearing , there ' s again a line item that says
contractual services. And so you would have money appropriated to
enter into contracts.
BETHEA : Now is that specific though? Is it described in
the budget?
IBARRA : Contract services. . .contractual services is the
line item.
BETHEA : Yeah, but I mean, it doesn ' t say what contract?
IBARRA : No. But the fact that it requires money from
another fiscal year. . .a good example is utilities , telephones.
You enter into this equipment contract with Hawaiian Tel for these
new-fangled telephones for five years? You would need the Council
approval to commit to Council to appropriating the money for the
later fiscal year. You may have it for one year. But then you
have no authority to bind the County financially for more than one
fiscal year, because again in the Charter it says before any
contract will be signed under 13-13, the Finance Director has to
certify that there are appropriate funds to cover the contract.
And without an appropriation from the Council , the Finance
Director would not be able to certify that this five-year contract
has funds appropriated . He can appropriate up to the present
fiscal year but not beyond, as far as certification.
JUVIK : Excuse me , can I return just for one minute the. . .
what we were discussing earlier about the right the (inaudible)
right of the Council itself to retain consultants or , in the
conflict with the mayor. . .potential conflict with the Mayor over
this. You see , for example , in Honolulu with the garbage-to-
energy conversion and with the mass transit where the Council
may. . . I mean, it ' s such a complicated. . .technical issues are
involved that maybe Council feels they want a second opinion on an
administrative initiative , whether it ' s a. . .the kind of sewage
treatment plant or the kind of garbage energy plant, but they ' re
not necessarily willing to buy the administration ' s rationale or
costs or whatever. Yet they ' re constrained because they can ' t go
out and get. . .marshal the technical expertise that the
administration has at its call. And, so I guess what I 'm saying
is , right now the mayor has that. . .the mayor can stop them from. . .
IBARRA : Can? Yes.
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JUVIK: . . .finding a second opinion. Let ' s put it that
way. But I realize the other dangers that the Council increase
their own departments and so on. . .
IBARRA : Yes.
JUVIK : . . .and so forth. Do you see some mechanism for
resolution of that?
IBARRA : I think, certainly, the again, the players should
be forthright in saying they 're not able to provide that kind of
information that ' s requested by the Council. And -certainly, this
is the time where a consultant would be necessary. Right now, for
example , the corporation counsel ' s office , who represents both the
mayor as well as the Council , and under the corporation counsel
section, there is a provision that says if there is a necessity,
the County by two-thirds vote , can hire special counsel. . .to
advise. . .a lawyer. And how we interpreted this is, first of all,
the counsel being the chief legal advisor of the County , would
tell the Council, look, you asked me to. . . I have to represent
maybe the director of the department who ' s been sued ; I can ' t
represent the employee who ' s been sued because there ' s a conflict
of interest, so this requires a real necessity ; now let' s get
special counsel. And along that same line , I would think that if
the information cannot be provided by the administration,
certainly the Council should be authorized to get their own
consultant.
But then, you can see every question that the Council might
inquire into, you say , well , I don' t trust you in; I want my own
counsel.
GREENWELL : And (inaudible) .
IBARRA: And that' s the problem. That ' s really the problem
in a nut shell. The administration and the Council have to work
together as far as. . .
GREENWELL : Checks and balances.
IBARRA: Yes , checks and balances , and each have to carry
out their responsibilities and authority under the Charter. And
where we have ambiguity , like the transfer, those things are
raised. . .
BETHEA : We ' ve been at this an hour and fifty minutes , and
we ' re going to have to get some other business done. What ' s the
pleasure of the commission? Mr. Ibarra, I 'm sure on another
occasion if we asked you very nicely , you' d probably be willing to
come back?
IBARRA : (Nods yes. )
BETHEA : Is there something else that you particularly want
to emphasize now?
52
IBARRA: Well , there ' s another provision, and I think maybe
you should ask the department to follow up if they can provide you
with the input, is in finance , there ' s the bidding procedures , as
far as the amount when formal bids. . .and again, I think it was
$400 or $500 where you would need a bid. This is under. . .
BETHEA : Section. . .
IBARRA : . . .$500. . .no , it ' s. . .it ' s on Section 10-14,
centralized purchasing . $500. Which means , if you have anything
over $500, you need competitive bids in writing. And these
amounts were established 196. . .ten years ago and. . .
GREENWELL : Probably earlier.
IBARRA: . . .probably earlier. And when you talk to the
department heads , you can ask. . .especially Public Works , as far as
the real necessity for quickly fixing equipment when it ' s down ,
like the rubbish dump over the weekend. This requires competitive
bids if it ' s between $500 and $4, 000, and maybe it should be
raised, but, I just draw that to your attention. If the
department heads. . .won' t want to bring it up. I know I ' ve had
enough complaints about that.
When the limits are so high. . .so low that they have to go
competitive bids , they always look for a loop hole , and the loop
hole in this case is they just want to say this is an emergency .
But then to me sometimes they abuse the process , you know , by
trying to call everything an emergency , emergency , emergency.
They should be. . .emergencies should be an emergency , not the
norm.
BETHEA : So you ' d recommend more flexibility in. . .
IBARRA: In the amounts , yes .
BETHEA : . . .two and hold people to the emergency (inaudible) .
IBARRA: That ' s right. Yes.
BETHEA : (Inaudible. )
L'ORANGE : I have one general question that would to me ,
Ron. In 1963, ' 65 and ' 67, three different commissions looked at
the form of government we ' re now operating under. In 1979 the
Charter Commission again looked at the former government . In your
opinion, what reasons or things should we consider to have
us . . .trigger us to look at the former government again? I mean ,
to me looking at the past , it ' s been you know three different
commissions looked at it , picked it , the commission 10 years ago
reviewed it, what in your opinion should be there if we were to
take on the task of looking at changing the form of government?
53
IBARRA: I think , certainly , in my experience of course , I
wasn ' t in the Board of Supervisors, but I think this form of
government is adequate. Certainly , it ' s not the. . .without loop
holes or ambiguity. I would think that , and I firmly believe as a
lawyer, that one should not change the laws , but should let the
law work and just amend the area in which there are gray areas or
ambiguities.
Certainly, our Charter form of government , the mayor-Council
form of government , is not that old. And I don' t think we ' ve
given it enough time to work yet, as far as working out the bugs.
If we are going to change the structure every time there ' s a
little disagreement between the two branches of government, we may
be changing every ten years. What I would suggest , certainly , is
that the players be changed and. . . .
GREENWELL: That ' s happened .
IBARRA : And so. . .
L' ORANGE : I 'm not suggesting a change. I'm . . . I was just
curious as to what conditions you feel would be important for us
to even. . .because we could spend an awful lot of time going over
the managing director and all different forms that previous
Charter Commissions have already done.
IBARRA: But certainly , Mr. L ' Orange , on your own and the
commissions may able to look at the minutes of the prior
commission, and you can see. . . I remember when Dr. Markey came and
spoke about the city manager form of government , and Mrs. Hale was
advocating for the mayoral type of government while she was the
Board of Superv. . . Chairman of the Board. . .
GREENWELL: She was chairman.
IBARRA : Yeah. Certainly she didn ' t become mayor though.
So , I think, the minutes will. . .
GREENWELL : . . . (inaudible) story.
IBARRA: . . .prove interesting.
GREENWELL : One of the points though that you made today is
whether. . . I think should be. . .you said you told the department
heads at one point that they had to give the Council all the
information. That has been one of the problems. Because that
information has not been coming to the Council. And one of the
things it has created are some problems (inaudible) .
BETHEA : Mr. Ibarra, in your function both as a corporation
counsel and as a managing director, and. . .you ' ve outlined some of
the areas where the language is in conflict . I' d very much
appreciate it if other areas that you know of that occur to you ,
if you could simply reduce them to writing and let us know and let
54
us look at them, we ' re obviously very anxious to get the benefit
of your experiences . Because I read this thing and I can see
conflict that simply should be cleared up. One thing I think we
ought not to end up with, if we can help it , is a situation where
the County Clerk, for example , has to make interpretations that
the Charter should make. You know, that ' d be as clear as possible
on major issues. So I' d very much appreciate it if you would ,
just as things occur to you, if you could send them in to us. I
think it would be very valuable. And certainly we appreciate your
being here. I' d like to be able to call on you again as we get
through this.
C. Break
BETHEA : Is there any other questions that should be
directed to Mr. Ibarra? If not , I suggest that we take just a
short break, then we come back and there ' s administrative matters
that I need to we need to go through and then we can get out of
here as quickly as possible. I also want to discuss the
possibility for a subject matter for next week. But let ' s take a
brief recess right now.
D. Administrative Matters :
Office set-up and secretary
BETHEA : (Reconvened ; general comments) . Some of the
ministerial business of the community . At the last meeting , as
you will recall from the minutes, you asked me to find an
executive secretary for the commission. As Okira noted at that
meeting, it was a full-time job. I think I ' ve done that , and I ' ve
also arranged for some office space. I think most of you saw the
space which we got through the cooperation of Jan Bibb, and we
appreciate that very much. I think it ' s going to be helpful to
have the private space. And, in terms of the office , we ' ll be
able , as we understand it right now, we ' re still trying to get all
this together, to have a separate phone number, separate address ,
etcetera, etcetera. And I'll get in a little bit more to that.
With the cooperation of Susan Labrenz, we ' ve arranged for
our secretary to fill an exempt position in the Mayor' s Office.
And this works out very nicely in that it covers all of the bases
for employee. . .the details for employment , workers ' comp and all
of that type thing.
At the same time , it gives us an opportunity to employ a
person only for the life of the commission. That ' s the only. . .
that ' s the job limitation. And subject to funding and work load,
I met initially on this subject matter with Mike Benn and Merle
Egusa at the Civil Service Commission [office] and later with
David Luke who runs the commission [office ]. Again, their office
was extremely, cooperative. In order to do this , they got a Corp.
Counsel opinion that it could be done with an exempt position in
the Mayor ' s Office. We didn ' t need Council approval, which I.
think was absolutely correct. And they ' ve met with me to discuss
what the appropriate salary schedule would be; and they were very
helpful. They rushed through a job description and are in the
55
process right now in the next few days of completing what is
normally a much longer processof getting all of these things
formed up and ready to go.
As far as the person to fill that job, we had an application
from Marie Jacobs , who is sitting here now , and I have , as you
suggested, asked whether or not she would accept the job, and she
indicated that she would. We had strong recommendations for Ms.
Jacobs from Ron Ibarra, who had been her boss before. Actually,
she comes with a great deal of County experience and she had been
the executive secretary to the Corporation Counsel, as well as
having previous experience as a legal secretary , and then was the
executive assistant , or whatever the exact job is called, to Mr.
Ibarra when he was the managing director ; and in that capacity,
she kept the minutes of the cabinet meetings, etcetera, so she ' s
familiar with the procedures.
I also got strong recommendations from various people who
have been working with her in the present administration. And
Aileen Lum was also kind enough to interview Marie and the
recommendations were all solid , that she could be of great help to
her [us] .
So unless there are. . .well , let me put it this way, we ' re
still wrapping up all of these little things that you have to do
with the County. At the present time , Marie is working with Susan
Labrenz in the Managing Director' s office and there would
coordinate a date, for example, when the switchover would actually
take effect , but Mrs. Labrenz assures me that there ' s not going to
be a problem, that she ' s willing to do it , and this is something
that we could do very shortly , hopefully by the early part of next
week, which would give us a chance to really get in full swing
between now and the next meeting.
So that was what you asked me to do aside from buttoning up
the details. I have done it , and is there any objection from the
commission?
E. Motion to Accept Arrangement
GREENWELL : Do you want a motion?
BETHEA: Please.
GREENWELL : .I so move.
L'ORANGE: Second.
ONONAMA : Second.
BETHEA: Discussion?
DUNCAN : Mr. Chairman. I think it ' d be very nice if she
could introduce hereself and give a little run down on herself to
some of us (inaudible) .
BETHEA : Very good. Thank you. Would you to that please?
56
JACOBS : Now?
BETHEA: Yes.
JACOBS : Okay. As you know, my name is Rose Marie Jacobs.
I ' ve been with the County a couple of years. I ' ve been in Hawaii
almost 20, and during that time, I ' ve done mainly legal work for
different attorneys. Quite a bit of it ' s been on a part-time
basis, mainly in Honolulu, and. . .and that pretty much sums up my
secretary experience.
With the County, I worked for Ron when he was Corporation
Counsel, for seven months. I worked at the Mayor' s Office for an
additional year and maybe eight months, as Private Secretary to
the Managing Director. During that time , I had a great deal of
responsibility , besides taking minutes , transcribing, using
shorthand , dealing with a lot of people in the County system , and
knowing the secretaries , I did have a lot of responsibility
suspensing items, work items that were needed , from departments
and secretaries, follow-up work, research work. I worked with
Mayor Carpenter directly in some instances , with his work, also
his paperwork (inaudible) .
I 'm great at pushing paperwork. I'm a super typist, so I
can run through the minutes fast , I hope , given the proper
equipment. I don ' t know a great deal. . .a great many of you. I
guess I' ll have to look forward to getting to know you all. I 'm
fairly easy to get along with. I can either assert myself when I
need to or I can stand back and following instructions , depending
on what the job entails. I haven ' t seen a job description yet.
So I hope you 'll all welcome me. And thank you.
BETHEA : (Inaudible. )
JUVIK : (Inaudible) sounds qualified. My only question
would be, what are we approve. . .are we approving her hiring right
now or. . .
BETHEA : Well, you had asked me to go out and get a
full-time. . .
JUVIK : My only question would be what. . .do we have a rough
dollar idea of what we ' re approving?
BETHEA : We know what it ' s going to be based on, the
recommendations from David Luke , and I went over all of those , and
we looked at all the requirements. And it ' s what ' s called in
County parliance , an SR-18(G) level which pays $1990 a month.
That ' s twenty-three something a year.
JACOBS: This is basically on the same level as almost all
the private secretaries to department heds.
BETHEA: Yeah. When we went over it in some detail. . .and I
signed a job description and worked up a job description. I don ' t
57
have it with me because the County ' s in the process of doing it.
And quite frankly, I 'm still negotiating with them about when,
where and all of this type of stuff , and what type of equipment we
can get out of them, so nothing is totally up yet , except that I
felt, and that. . .do you go by Rose Marie?
JACOBS : I go by Marie.
BETHEA : . . .was very well qualified for the job. Good
recommendations, so I simply went for it.
GREENWELL : She also. . .
JACOBS : I think another issue was, that it was kind
of. . .that it was an emergency that Karolyn couldn ' t continue her
time spent on these things.
F. Commission Length and Budget
JUVIK : Is there a length, I mean, I realize for the life of
the commission, but I mean, could it be initially for a year or
six months or. . .
BETHEA : Well, what I. . .after talking further with David
Luke today , because we do have a budget thing , and right now,
we ' re not sure where we 're going and what the costs are going to
be. One of the first things I told Marie this afternoon that she
was going to have to do was a letter from me in her files that
said her job was really only during the life of the commission.
And aside from that , she is an at-will employee of this commission
and that it ' s subject to funding and work load. So that I could
not guarantee her that it would even last the life of the
commission. Let me just give you speak briefly on that.
Right now, I don ' t have any idea whether this commission is
going to want to have its recommendations put before the public at
a special election next February, or whether or not the commission
wants to wait for the general election in November. Somewhere
along the line, we ' re going to have to decide that. We may not be
able to decide that until we have some more information and a
better feeling about where we ' re going. If it were going to be in
November, and if we finished our work very early on, you know , by
next February or something, we might need to employ someone in
this capacity on a part-time basis. I think that it ' s going to be
full-time for a long time.
But when I discussed that, she was willing to accept the job
under those circumstances. It' s our money to control , but we have
to be careful about how we spend it. So , that ' s where we start.
L' ORANGE: Mr. . .there ' s something screwy as far as what our
previous had been. . .this is the budget here says that they had a
secretary 52 meetings , so that ' s once a week for 8 hours a day .
So one day per week. And public hearings. The total secretarial
budget was somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,700, and then they
go up to $3,500. We ' re talking about. . .
58
BETHEA: That' s right.
L'ORANGE . .that much in one month.
BETHEA: I don' t know. . .I've tried to find out about this
budget item. I don ' t know whether some of the work was done out
of a pool. As you know , the Charter has a secretarial pool
provision. And whether transcriptions were done, it ' s kind of off
in time. That ' s why this thing is sort of uncertain. I think
there ' s going to be , if we can utilize this person correctly , I
think there ' s goina to be a lot of work.
When we get into this work plan, then David and Patricia
have volunteered with a little coercing to try to come up with a
work plan along the lines that they talked about.
Yes, Karolyn.
NAGAO : I come out of the Mayor ' s Clerical Services Center,
it ' s called and (inaudible) about that. That ' s where i come out
of (inaudible) strictly clerical support for all of the mailings
(inaudible) under Office of Information & Complaints. (Inaudible)
think that would probably be available to (inaudible) .
BETHEA: Well now, he was asking in lieu of , really , you see.
NAGAO : I didn ' t know if you knew how it was (inaudible) ;
that ' s why I couldn' t (inaudible) .
BETHEA : Quite frankly, Pete, I didn ' t understand this at
all. When I look at the volume of minutes that are. . .that we
produced, they just an enormous amount of work, depending on how
frequently these meetings are held. At the same time , I. . .we
don ' t know over the long haul what the work load is. That ' s why
it was set up as an exempt position in the Mayor ' s Office. Marie
would be an employee, in effect , at-will. She wouldn ' t be subject
to the usual Civil Service regulations , so that if the workload
didn ' t deserve it, we can back down and look for look for
something else.
L'ORANGE : I 'm in favor of it, Chairman. What I 'm saying is
these budget figures are way different than what ' s in place
today. The Council felt they were very generous in giving us a
$100, 000, but the mileage is now almost double what the mileage
was, you know, at that time. The salary and wages were much
higher. I (inaudible) Corporation Counsel fifteen bucks an hour
or a legal counsel for fifty bucks an hour. We got to get a
realistic budget. The Governor was already told by a Council
member, we ' re not going to give you five cents more.
BETHEA: Well, that ' s why the job is going to have to be
ultimately subject to funding limitations. And I ' ve asked Akira
Omanaka to start working on the budget considerations. And , as a
matter of fact, he ran this down, but when I talked to people over
there, no one really had a handle on it. But. . .
59
NAGAO : We had a motion, and I' m curious who gave the
second. And I heard Pete. . .
L'ORANGE : Sherwood made the motion and Okira made the
second.
NAGAO : I thought I heard you say something?
L' ORANGE: I did too.
NAGAO : Okay. Thank you.
BETHEA: Is there more discussion on the. . .
GREENWELL : Question. Question.
BETHEA: All in favor of the motion, please say aye.
COMMISSION : Aye.
BETHEA : All opposed? Motion is carried.
Let me get to one thought I had. It ' ll be a fairly big job
for our new executive secretary. My files are in an absolute
mess. You know, we ' ve got these gobs of paper, we walk into the
meeting today , you hand us some stuff that. . .we ' ve got stuff that
Akira gave us, and all of which I think is very valuable. What I
propose to do, and I think the other commission members might find
it valuable, is to try to have our executive secretary set up some
sort of system for us where we put everything that is like
background material, material that we got from the last
commission, other Charters. . .and a file or two, and try to get it
organized so that we have a working file ; and I can see my
organized friend here has started to come up with some kind of a
system like that. But I think it could be very helpful to us ,
that. . . I 'm really proposing that. . .what we might consider doing is
dumping it all back and then coming up with some sort of system
over the next week, assuming that , well, maybe two weeks, as soon
as we can, to get it back to us in some organized fashion.
It ' s purely administrative, so it ' s no
(inaudible) .
BETHEA : So anybody that wants to take advantage of that , do
it. I'm going to try to come up with some sort of a system. You
know, I think I have this in my mind about how we can do it.
JACOBS : There is a system that you can use similar like to
the federal government, state government when they update their
tax books and their law books. And they give you little inserts
that are labeled for the date of the meeting. . .
BETHEA: Yeah.
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JACOBS : . . .page numbers, and then you can receive them in a
certain little pile and just stick them in a 3-ring binder.
BETHEA : Yes. We 'll work that out. And it ' ll be. . .whatever
we do, it 'll be available to the members of the commission.
As far as office equipment is concerned, Hugh Ono is looking
around for us. We ' re going to try to solve that problem. We ' re
also looking at seeing whether or not we have access to a word
processor on a pool basis. We don' t know all of these things
yet. The County has been very cooperative, but obviously , there ' s
a lot of things we have yet to do. We need to get some letter-
head, we need to get the office set up, we need to get our account
straight. We ' re trying to move on that.
G. Defer Rules Dicussion to Next Meeting
BETHEA : Things that I have left on the agenda, rules and
regulations, I don' t know whether we need to discuss those
further. We only adopted temporary rules ; if we read them,
they ' re not quite in the right form , perhaps because of
the. . .we ' ve been here 2-1/2 hours , we should let that go, unless
somebody wants to get into it , because another item is the
advertisement for attorney that Jim Juvik has come up with, and
then to fix the next meeting date.
Does anybody have objections to deferring a look at the
temporary rules until another meeting? Hearing no objections , we
will do that.
H. Hiring of an Attorney
BETHEA : We had passed out a copy of a proposed ad, which
I' ve already lost mine. That ' s why I need the oh, here ' s an
extra,
right?
L'ORANGE : No , that 's my copy.
BETHEA: Okay.
L'ORANGE : I' ll share. I' ve read it.
BETHEA: I did not read it. You know the. . .
JUVIK : Mr. Chairman, if you ' d like , these are all just my
recomm. . .my suggestions on the qualifications , but they ' re
based. . . I could just very quickly explain why I indicated those
specifically , if you don' t mind.
BETHEA : Okay , why don ' t you do that.
JUVIK: The duties , I think , I just followed. . . I just listed
what I thought were the duties. Maybe you can think of some other
ones, but I added the catch-all at the end. As far as
61
I '
qualifications are concerned, obviously a resident of Hawaii
County, and that ' s just a technical term, license to practice
before the. . .Hawaii Supreme Court , as all lawyers in the state are
licensed to do. And then I just put in 3 years. . .my. . .3 years in
the state of Hawaii. My thought here was that we don ' t want
somebody straight out of law school. We want somebody with some
experience , legal experience , in the state of Hawaii , three years,
five years , ten years , whatever. But, that was the reason for
that sort of experience requirement. Have demonstrated expertise
in administrative , municipal, and constitutional law. Those are
the three terms that generally describe the kind of law we ' re
dealing with here, as opposed to criminal or patent law, or some
other kind of law. I belive though (inaudible) perhaps we have
some (inaudible) . I blieve those are subheadings. . .subareas of
law that we ' re dealing with in this case. I. . .those I listed as
minimum qualifications. I also indicated some desirable quali-
fications, obviously not required but , obviously if somebody has
an applic. . .has working experience with the Hawaii County Charter,
so much the better. I also put general familiarity with and
sensitive to community values , that may be impacted by the
organiation or operation of the government. Again, the idea is
that somebody that has some (inaudible) and some feelings for the
way the County operates and so on. And finally I threw in
demonstrated community service. I kind of threw that in on the
idea that other things being equal , a lawyer that has a lot of
community service in his background is probably somebody that is
going to be. . .is going to kokua us a little as well as charge us
money. So that was the rationale there.
BETHEA: Okay. If I could just make a couple of comments .
The. . . I think one of the. . .you talk about desirable qualifi-
cations, people who have had experience drafting legislation, for
example , and the Charter is a piece of legislation, that would be
a very desirable thing. Sensitivity to the community values , I
don' t know, because I think we ' re going to establish the values.
We may not be interested in that person ' s opinion. Salary , I
don ' t think. . . I really don 't think we need a lawyer on a salary
basis; I think we need him on a part-time, some sort of hourly
rate basis, as and when we think it ' s necessary. As Akira pointed
out, probably good for him or her to attend the meeting. But I
would think we would want somebody that we could assign a specific
project to. You know, research this and research that. And pay
them on some hourly basis as opposed to trying to set up a salary
or a retainer.
JUVIK : Yeah, I think (inaudible ; missed communication due
to tape change) .
BETHEA: Let ' em (inaudible) .
JUVIK : Akira said that last time they just got a
flat. . ..they just paid a flat fee for the lawyer for the whole
period, right?
62
OMONAKA : No , I think he got paid by the hour that he put
in, you know. So a lot of times, like when we were. . .you know, in
our deliberations, just as you go , I mean, you ' re gonna want some
legal opinions, so by and large, he ' s been at the. . .our meetings
and our public hearings.
JUVIK : Did he also conduct research for you on legal issues?
OMONAKA : Everything that was required, by the commission.
BETHEA: And drafted, you say?
OMONANA: Yeah.
JUVIK : Right.
BETHEA: Then if you only use ' em when you need ' em, then
you only pay for it when you need it. That ' s why I think an
hourly rate.
UNKNOWN: Well, what ' s the hourly rate right now, I mean
you know, for. . .
BETHEA : You know, it varies. And hourly rates aren ' t a
very good indication of whether or not you ' re getting a bargain.
Because it ' s depending on the level of expertise in a particular
field. Somebody who may have a much higher hourly rate is going
to have a lower bottom line. But this work, I think, is going to
involve drafting and some research. And we may find some people
out there who are willing to do it, as you suggested, on something
less than their full fees. I don' t know how to respond if we
said, you know, make an offer. We may find somebody with enormous
experience who hasn ' t entered, and who would come up with some
very reasonable hourly figure.
GREENWELL : There was something on the radio the other day.
One thing an attorney should remember is, don' t put your fee so
low that people don ' t think you ' re any good. (Inaudible. )
BETHEA : I don ' t know.
JUVIK : Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, along those lines , I also
made contact with the dean of the Richardson School of Law in
Honolulu, because the law faculty at the Manoa campus is obligated
to do some community service and had a talk with some lawyers in a
general way, about. . .you know, what kind of, you know, what do you
want , and this give and take you ' re talking about the attorney and
the fee structure, and the dean indicated to me that there ' s a
possibility they might be able to kokua some specific help. And
they also indicated that it might be possible for us to make use
of a legal interm during the summer from the law school, that
might be able to do some research for the lawyer that we ' re
using. Because (inaudible) that ' s where a lot of the expenses
63
are. Additionally , I contacted the Corp. Counsel ' s office and
they ' re looking into the possibility of allowing us use of the
Weslaw computer link to the mainland , which is a system that acts
as a legal research information. And that would save the
commission the cost of actually establishing that link. We 'd have
to pay hourly charges on that system, but it ' s something that we
could offer the attorney that we hire , as a. . .
BETHEA: Well, a lot of the firms have that. As a matter of
fact, I think your thought about the university is a good one.
And I placed a call, for example, and this is one of the reasons
why I think the attorney for the commission should be a part-time
attorney , because we may be able to get some very substantial free
advice from the law school. I placed a call to Jon Van Dyke , who
I guess, teaches constitutional law there , and who, for example , I
have used on a private contract basis in filing a case in the
United States Supreme Court because I thought it would be more
efficient for the client. You know , somebody who , depending on
the area that you ' re dealing with. . .and I think there are some of
those things out there. For example , one of the things that we
probably are going to have somebody talk to us about is to be sure
that whatever we end up doing in terms of representation, is
pretty clearly constitutional. You know, the one man, one vote
rule. And that ' s. . .this was all done ten years ago , and there ' s
been no challenge to the system. And I have no information that
there ' s anything wrong with it . I. . .
GREENWELL : This goes back to 1966.
BETHEA: Well , as I tried , let me just give you an example .
I think we might be able to do something like that free. I say
this to illustrate why I think we want an attorney on a part-time
basis. We might be able to find somebody who is really up-to-date
on that, who has done a paper on it recently. One of the
questions that. . .when I looked at this thing, and when you have
at-large voting , you think, gee, that ' s one man, one vote , it ' s
all okay. And yet, as I think, well, did you (inaudible) to point
it out. . .somebody pointed out that that hasn' t always been the
case, because you can have a 45% minority who can ' t get a seat
because of block voting. I don ' t think we have those kinds of
concerns in Hawaii. But. . .or, voting per areas. One of the
things that. . .
GREENWELL : We have that, voting per area?
BETHEA: Pardon me.
GREENWELL : I think we have that, voting per area, where it
is that kind of majority that , in some areas , where there is a
minority in the island, they ' re not getting representation.
BETHEA: Yeah. Well. . .
GREENWELL : So , it does show up in a different way.
64
DUNCAN : Excuse me , can we get back to the issue of the
attorney? I think that we do have different options, and I. . . I' d
like to see us get back to hiring. . .the value of hiring someone
who ' s competent, someone who believes who wants to work with us
on this project. And I think that ' s where maybe Jim and I might
be kind of academic , but I kind of like his familiarity with and
sensitivity to community values. . .
BETHEA : I have no. . .
DUNCAN : . . .you know. And then the commitment to community
service, I think is a good one. I think we have to find someone
who is not only good, with some good legal expertise, but wants to
work with the commission on this particular project. Because it
is important to the County. I think, yes , we may be able to tap
into some some additional advice at the. . .at the law schools or
whatever, but we need some continuity. We ' re going to have to
have somebody that we have access to at all times.
BETHEA : Good.
GREENWELL: Mr. Chairman. . .
CUSHNIE: Mr. Chairman, in reference to someone who may call
and inquire about the hourly commitment, could we merely quote the
last commission used their lawyer 52 meetings (inaudible) meet
once a week for eight hours and also had 12 public hearings? I
think this will at least prepare an applicant to the understanding
that they need to give us about 500 hours over the next year. And
that ' s not full-time ; that would be perhaps (inaudible) and I
agree with Francine, that we need the continuity , so whether we do
have the people come in at various intervals, I think it. . .a
mimimum we should expect to have a lawyer once a week, eight
hours. Or available to us and available for 12 public hearings.
If this changes , it can be with everyone ' s understanding . But I
don' t think we can go into this nebulous agreement with somebody,
and not be fair to him as well as ourselves.
BETHEA : Well, are you really suggesting that you think it
might be about 500 hours?
JUVIK: I think most lawyers. . .a lawyer (inaudible) on the
job would probably want some minimum commitment , I mean
(inaudible) .
BETHEA : Oh, I don ' t think so. I have no objections to it .
I 'm just suggesting that. . .I think it ' s a good idea if you think
approximately 500 hours will be required. It gives them an idea
that it ' s not a 50-hour job and it ' s not 5, 000. If we think 500
is a good number, you know, that sounds good. Does anybody have a
problem with that?
L 'ORANGE : Yeah. In reading this further, I can see that
this was a budget prepared for the commission and I read it as
65
actual expenses. So if this was a budget (inaudible) so they ' re
using estimates (inaudible) . And what we need to know is what
they actually spent. And if we say 500 hours, I mean, let ' s just
say 500 hours, attorneys ' rates , I ' ve seen ' em $80 to $120 bucks
an hour, you know, we ' re talking $50, 000 bucks.
DUNCAN : I seem to recall that you were making a statement
earlier that there was a flat fee , because if you charge on a
per-hour basis, we ' ve bust our budget.
CUSHNIE : Was that is that correct , Akira?
OMANAHA : Yes, that ' s right (inaudible) asked Susan if we
could not have the breakdown for the expenditures for the last
Charter Commission, and she said she would have it ready. But I
don ' t have it.
CUSHNIE: This is not (inaudible) corrections?
L'ORANGE : No (inaudible) budget , I think. (Inaudible) the
same way that you did.
JACOBS : May I say something? We checked every place we
could possibly check for anything , and this is all we could come
up with. The cover page was basically estimates and kind of a
rough draft , one of their first ones. The other pages I finally
found in accounts. Now they don ' t keep any records back to 10
years to even show what the breakdown is under, you know, those
amounts that they used. And he had no other figurework at all. I
mean, they just all of that stuff was thrown out. And no
records were kept by anybody.
CUSHNIE : There may be a possibility it might be in the
previous minutes somewhere along the line .
BETHEA: Well, I think right now we just don ' t know how much
it ' s going to take . If, for example , we got (inaudible) simply
revising this Charter and trying to patch it up, and got into a
whole new system of government , we ' re not going to be able to
draft something within our budget. We ' re going to have to go back
and get the , you know, get the Council to do more, or say we can ' t
do it. I think we. . .get back in focus on this. We may have
budget problems. Could we ask them to sub tell us what they
would work for, you know.
JUVIK : I think that ' s going to be part of the process of
hiring a lawyers , the give and take on negotiating. . .if we quit
being negotiable , we can still simply add hours and begin to
evaluate.
BETHEA : Yep. But what I 'm. . .what your thought was, it
sounds very good to me , is there may be very experienced people
out there who would like the job, and because it is a public
66
service job , are willing to do it at 50% of their regular rate.
And so, if we ask them to quote an hourly rate, and let ' s just say
200 hours plus, you know , we don ' t know how long it ' s going to be,
200 hours plus, (inaudible) at some little indication and say. . .
UNKNOWN: Quote your rate.
BETHEA : We may find some very experienced guy or woman who
says , hey , this is terrific. I'm interested in that and I 'm gonna
do it at half rate or something.
CUSHNIE : At least this will initiate the initial. . .
BETHEA : And then, the idea is, we have their resume coming
in and their quote , and you can compare it , rather than sit down
and try to negotiate with everybody. . .
JUVIK : You want me to quote the rate in the response to the
ad?
BETHEA: Yeah. Quote an hourly rate, but just perform the
work for it. Please quote an hourly rate. Well. . .
OMANAKA : How would they know what to quote, you know
(inaudible) how long they been working? So
BETHEA : Well. . .
OMANAKA : . . .I would suggest that maybe we should go ahead
with the ad, with the understanding we 'll be interviewing this
period , and then we set up a priority in terms of what we would be
doing in terms of getting to the ultimate we ' d like to vote on
(inaudible) . From there , we can put it kind of a guestimate in
terms of what the number of hours we would be requiring. So for
now (inaudible) ahead of time, and let other things fall in place
later on. We ' ll tell whoever be interested , and we will be
revealing the work load, but in terms of price, that ' s going to be
negotiated , hourly rate or whatever it is.
BETHEA: And then let the search committee negotiate?
L' ORANGE: I don ' t see any problem with doing it both,
salary negotiable. Put in parenthesis, please quote your rate.
JUVIK : Certainly, I'm less concerned about the rate than
getting a good person. I mean, I think that ' s our first concern.
But we ' re not going to take the person that has the lowest rate
just because (inaudible) and I think those things can be handled
duringan interview rather than necessarily , I don ' t know not a
Y �
big deal.
BETHEA : So let ' s hear it again, Akira, maybe you got some. . .
67
OMANAKA : Can we start with the process of advertising and
let them respond to the committee? And the committee can explain
to them what we ' re up against in terms of hours worked, things
like that? I don 't think we need an attorney immediately ; we can
go to Corp . Counsel for help for now in, you know, the kind of
work that we ' re doing, so even if, you know, the attorney don' t
come on board for the next two or three meetings, it won' t hurt us.
BETHEA : What should you say on the salary thing then?
JUVIK : I just said , fee negotiable .
BETHEA : Fine. Does that meet with everybody ' s approval?
It would go out exactly this wording , fee negotiable.
JUVIK : A couple corrections (inaudible) typographical
errors. One other point that we should agree on , I just put in a
Friday , February l7th. . .figuring it ' d take a few days to get it
in, and it would give about two weeks to respond. I don' t know if
that should be longer or shorter. . .
BETHEA : It ' s pretty short .
JUVIK : Yeh.
L' ORANGE : How would you advertise? You mailed out to law
offices or, I mean, other than the newspaper? There are other
ways to. . .
JUVIK : I think we should put an ad in the West. . .in the
Tribune Herald and the West Hawaii newspapers and , I could say,
perhaps we could mail this advertisement to every attorney listed
in the yellow pages , but. . .
BETHEA : You could have. . .the bar association may have a
list of attorneys. I think they do , that you could simply mail it
to ' em.
JUVIK: You don ' t have to (inaudible) the bar association.
GROUP : (Inaudible. )
BETHEA : Can 't you anymore?
GIANNINI : It ' s not mandatory. It ' s you can. . .you can not
be a member of the Hawaii State Bar Association or the Hawaii
Island or the West Hawaii but still be a member of the bar.
BETHEA: I thought they locked it up. Well. . .
GIANNINI : You know, I 'm not a member (inaudible) .
BETHEA: Well, newspaper ads are expensive , as you well
68
know. You ' re gonna cover you 're gonna get about everybody
except for people who. . .I don 't even know anybody who doesn ' t
belong to the bar association, but there could be some.
CUSHNIE : If you ' re an equal opportunity, don ' t you have to
publicize it in the newspaper? Do any of you know?
BETHEA : I have no idea.
CUSHNIE : I think Honolulu Advertiser and one of the Hawaii
newspapers had a minimum of $40 bucks an ad. I don ' t see that . I
see it as an important (inaudible) .
BETHEA: Well , if you bury it, then nobody sees it. I mean,
those little ads, you ' ve got to do a little. . .weren 't you gonna do
a little. . .
JUVIK: I was going to do one on the. . .like the
Tribune-Herald, on the. . .where , you know, the job thing. . .they
have a . . .it ' s not a miniscule ad. . .
BETHEA: It ' s a big one?
JUVIK : Yeah. About that size. Maybe (inaudible) .
CUSHNIE : I think it ' s money well spent, especially if
you ' re going to be saving money by attracting somebody (inaudible) .
BETHEA: Does everybody agree to that? To do an ad? Let
the search committee decide how they wanna do it. That ' s you
(inaudible)
GROUP: (Inaudible. )
DUNCAN : Mr. Chairman, you did have a couple of
recommendations on the change of wording and their desirable
qualifications?
BETHEA : No , well, I just thought that drafting
legislative. . .experience in drafting legislation would be very
helpful.
GROUP: (Inaudible. )
JUVIK : Okay, I 'll add it. I can. . .if you 'll allow me the
descretion, I 'll add it.
BETHEA : Anybody have any objections to his going ahead with
that?
L' ORANGE : Mr. Chairman, I like the ads. But I ' d also like,
if there is a vehicle that we can get this out to, you know, fat
attorneys that are big accounts are not reading little ads looking
for work. And. . .
69
GROUP : (Inaudible. )
L ' ORANGE : . . .we ' re looking for someone that ' s quite
experienced. We might wanna get a. . .
BETHEA : Yeah. Okay. Why don ' t we leave that to the. . .
GROUP : ( Inaudible. )
BETHEA : . . .bar association. . .probably has a mailer, an
automatic thing they put on. . .
GROUP : (Inaudible. )
JUVIK : And, one thing, I can check to see if there are
lawyers in the phone book who are not under. . .who are not in bar
association lists, or something like that.
L' ORANGE : There might be a newsletter.
JUVIK : Huh?
L 'ORANGE : There might be a newsletter or some other vehicle
with. . .
UNKNOWN : (Inaudible) I will. . .
BETHEA : No objection. let ' s just assume you 're authorized
to spend up to $300 to get the word out. Alright?
I. Setting Next Meeting
BETHEA : Next item. , About the next meeting. . .Wed. . .only
Thursday night is not good , right?
BIBB : Oh , no, other people oh (inaudible) .
L' ORANGE : Mr. Chairman, I would prefer us meeting longer
and less often.
BETHEA : We ' ve met three hours.
UNKNOWN : (Inaudible. )
L 'ORANGE : Longer and less often would be really very
helpful (inaudible) . One meeting a month instead of two. Or
twice a month instead of four. Or whatever the work load
committee comes up with.
OMANAHA : Can. . .in the past, the commissioners used to go
for dinner break and come back and finish up. Not finish up , but
put in one hour, two hours more after (inaudible) .
70 -
BETHEA: Would. . .let me ask you this. And that may be a
good suggestion, because then people can. . .we could go at it a
little longer with a break. Would people. . .would you people
object to meeting about three weeks from now, where it would give
us a little change to get all of these things organized and the
internal structure arranged, and letterheads , and that type of
thing? And that would give about three weeks for David and
Patricia to look over their work plan and things of that nature.
I think once we get organized , we ' ll have a better feeling for how
frequently. Maybe we can meet once a month.
NAGAO : We have a motion (inaudible) , a motion to advertise.
BETHEA: A motion to what?
CUSHNIE : To advertise.
NAGAO : Advertise (inaudible) .
CUSHNIE : All those in favor?
NAGAO : (Inaudible. )
BETHEA : Alright. As I said, I heard no objections. So go
ahead , and I authorized $300.
NAGAO : Okay.
L ' ORANGE : It ' s moved and passed.
BETHEA: Done.
NAGAO : It passed. . .went right past me.
CUSHNIE : Are you thinking then (inaudible) approximately
three weeks?
BETHEA : Yeah. On a Wednesday.
CUSHNIE: That makes it just two days before our lawyer' s
deadline. . .resumes.
BETHEA : That ' s about. . .that deadline. I thought you were
gonna. . .
UNKNOWN : We didn ' t agree on whether (inaudible) I
understand (inaudible) whatever else (inaudible) with me .
JUVIK : I can (inaudible) you people. If we can get the
information out to (inaudible) to lawyers and also put an ad in
the newspaper but, I mean. . .
L' ORANGE : Chairman authorizes you to do it .
71
BETHEA: Yeah, fix a date. What you think. But , sure , do
we want to take that up at this meeting? One of the things. . .or
do you want to try to discuss the employment next meeting? I
think, David, you' re going to have a work plan. That ' s one little
item of business that we can discuss. If so , then you ' re gonna
have to, Wednesday , three weeks from now, would be what, the 15th?
UNKNOWN : The 15th?
BETHEA : Would be the 15th. Does that give you enough time?
JUVIK: Well, not if you want me to well, I mean, it gives
me enough time to run the ad, certainly. And we get some response
(inaudible) extend this and (inaudible) beyond that (inaudible) .
BETHEA : But Akira said we don ' t need then right away.
OMANAHA : Not for the kind of things we do now.
JUVIK: I don ' t think (inaudible) .
BETHEA: How about the 15th here? 4 o ' clock again?
UNKNOWN : (Inaudible. )
L'ORANGE : I' d like to meet earlier because for me, Bob, you
say 4 o ' clock, everybody ' s gonna work. 4 o ' clock for me, the
afternoon is shot anyway. I have to leave Kona by 2 o 'clock. I
have maybe one hour in my office. I' d rather meet at 1 or 2
o ' clock.
BETHEA: But then, you shoot the whole day.
GREENWELL : I ' d be shot anyway. Because you got four hours
out of the day just coming over and going back.
BETHEA: Yeah. I actually thought that it would take less
out of your work day if you have to leave at 2. Of course, if you
get there at 1. . .
UNKNOWN : We should have the next meeting in Kona.
BETHEA: Well, I think we ' re going to have to do that .
We ' re going to have to have to. . .one of the things we 're going to
have to get recording equipment and make arrangements , and find
out. . .
OMANAHA : Waimea, maybe.
BETHEA : . . .you know, the hotels generally have equipment I
found out today , so, that we could move to there very easily. I
don ' t think we can. . . I don ' t think it ' s fair for us to stick
people on the other side of the island and having to come over
72
BETHEA : . . .Ron.
IBARRA : And I just want to go over. . .basically I 'm. . . some
of the agencies as we go to the third row. Of course , the Water
Supply is also under a. . .is semi-autonomous because it has a
separate budget. Dr. Juvik knows. And , believe me , that ' s an
impossible situation to be in because Maui County , they were
considering whether or not the Water Supply should be brought back
under the executive branch, not having its own budget. And if you
ask me for my opinion , whether or not that should be done , I would
say, no. Because Water. . .the whole purpose of that again was
brought out. . .is to take the politics out of the Water Depart-
ment. And, certainly , water being so necessary, I would be afraid
to see the revenue. . .Water gets its budget from the water
revenues. They ' re a self-supporting business, as Dr. Juvik knows,
and I hate to see the budget go to the general fund and the County
supporting other County functions. Because then, you know, at
least in my four years in administration , I haven ' t seen any pro-
blem with the Water Department. And I can see if the revenues are
mixed with the general fund, and they come under the general
supervision and control of the mayor, they ' ll. . .and just put in
the entire general fund , I would see the Water Department fighting
for its share of the budget and I don' t think that would be an
efficient way of providing water to the taxpayers.
GREENWELL : Another thing to, with having it as it is now
set up, is that its bonds are considered to be high quality
because of it being run as a business rather than as a political
entity.
IBARRA : But, certainly, I agree with that. But then the
problem I saw in the Water Department was , and, well, we didn ' t
have a problem once we addressed it, was that it used to be the
water manager and the planning director don ' t get together. And
as a result , planning is not going along the same route.
Because. . .and what we tried to do was , certainly , bring them
together and tried to plan accordingly. Because. . .with the
necessary infrastructures and resources. But that we took care of
again under the clause again, general supervision and control.
BETHEA : Uh-huh , I see. Because they could be developing
the water system somewhere where the Planning Department ' s not
going to allow development. I see that.
OMANAKA : Another problem too is that the Water Department
doesn' t allow people , you know, apart from the (inaudible) .
IBARRA : Yes. Exactly like you generally pointed out. But
what we did was, when the Water Department lobbied , certainly , we
coordinated because we found certainly the Governor and
legislators were, fortunately at this time , contacting the mayor.
And there was a case where the Water Department was asking for
some money and the Governor said , well, to the mayor. What do you
73
want? You want this for water or you want this for your sewage
treatment plant? And the mayor says, well, I got priorities.
But , again, like the (inaudible) out , it ' s like the County
agencies are competing within us. . .within themselves and. . .
Certainly , but I say that could happen. But there is a mechanism
where it can be prevented and at least resolved.
The third line , department agencies authorized by County
Code and state statutes. So these are the enabling acts for these
agencies are. . .by either ordinance, like Office of the Aging , or
by state statute. Okay. And. . .
BETHEA: The . . .by ordinance , the County can. . .
IBARRA : Create a. . .
BETHEA: . . .create an agency .
IBARRA : Yes, create an agency. And Civil Defense is
by . . .well, it ' s a combination of state statute and ordinance.
Just like Aging. Housing & Community Development is, again. . .the
enabling act is originated for experimental housing in the state
statute. But then by ordinance, we also have a creation of that.
Mass Transit again, it ' s a combination by statute and ordinance.
And H.R.A. is also a combination by statute and ordinance. The
H.R.A. , for those of you who don ' t know , are responsible for
revitalizing areas in the downtown, not necessarily blighted
areas. And Mass Transit is responsible for providing mass transit
to the community. Housing provides affordable housing. And Civil
Defense , certainly, you understand that . And Aging provides for
aging programs.
L 'ORANGE : Where does the County Housing agency come in in
their responsibility for housing and development?
IBARRA : Where?
L'ORANGE : Yeah. I mean, you consider the Housing
Department. . .Housing under the mayor, but you 're. . .there ' s also
the County Housing Agency which is the County Council, do they. . .
IBARRA : Yes.
L 'ORANGE : Correct?
IBARRA : Yes. You would have then a line just
like. . .because they 're the policymakers again. The Housing which
is, again, created by ordinance , certainly are the policymakers as
far as Housing in the County of Hawaii and the Housing Agency ,
which is the Housing Committee, I call Housing, is the agency that
carries out and implements the policies that are set by the
Housing Agency, which is comprised of the Council. And. . .
74
BETHEA: Where does the Council get its authority to create
a department?
IBARRA : Create a department?
BETHEA: Yeah. I mean. . .
IBARRA : By state statute.
BETHEA: . . . all of these things that are. . .
IBARRA : That ' s what I said , by state statute.
BETHEA: State statute authorizes. . .
IBARRA : Creation of a Housing Agency.
BETHEA : By the. . .
IBARRA : By the County.
JUVIK : That ' s included (inaudible) and the department
doesn ' t. . .the County doesn' t need state approval to create a new
department, does it?
IBARRA : Okay. Now. . .that ' s a very good question, because
you see when you talk about municipal law , the general rule is the
municipal body can only act if it has its authority express or
implied. And so now, our authority is basically the County
Charter, or state law, state statute , or state constitution. You
cannot enact an ordinance to sort of bookstrap your authority .
So , if there ' s no authority to create , for example , an and this
was brought out for Kona , Mr. L ' Orange , for example , a parking
authority. See, it ' s no authority . . .
L ' ORANGE : By the state. . .
IBARRA : State statute, constitution, or County Charter.
L' ORANGE: ( Inaudible) do what the state allows?
IBARRA : You can ' t (inaudible) .
JUVIK : But , I believe (inaudible) in the City & County of
Honolulu, for example, they divided the planning department into a
department of general planning and long-range. . . I mean, they have
two, kind of, planning departments.
IBARRA : That ' s right .
JUVIK : That ' s it .
IBARRA: It. . .
75
JUVIK : Why don' t they just do it on their own?
IBARRA : Okay. One of the. . .the County gets its authority
in establishing a structure of government , as under the state
constitution, Section. . .Article 7, which states that the. . .I just
mentioned previously , that the County as far as the
mayor. . .establish. . .the Charter form of government and, in the
area of structure , administration and organization. The County
Charter can establish whatever form of government in which the
County (inaudible) . So what I'm saying is , if you feel you want
to revamp your Planning Department by following Honolulu ' s, amend
the Charter.
JUVIK : The state does not preclude us from doing that?
IBARRA: No.
JUVIK : But if we want to create a sanitation department,
and separate that from Public Works , we could do that?
IBARRA : Yes.
BETHEA : Yep.
IBARRA : Yes. But it has to be by Charter. You cannot do
it by ordinance unless the Charter says , by . . . sometimes you don' t
want the Charter to be so exact, because the Charter Review comes
up every ten years , and sometimes , deliberately , you want to make
it ambiguous and. . . so that you can fit in situations that you
haven 't foreseen. And certainly , well , you can leave it open by
saying that the structure shall be pursuant to ordinance. And the
ordinance then, the County Council would establish the form. And
that is easily amended.
But there are certain providions , and I ' d really like to
touch on real quick, that I ' ve seen as managing director, when we
talk about the, I don ' t say fight , but I say maybe the debates
between Council and the administration. . And I' d like to point it
out real quick where you folks may want to look at in the review,
is the section pertaining to appropriation and transfer within an
agency. Okay. The basic financial procedure is the mayor would. . .
BETHEA: What ' s that section?
IBARRA : Okay. 10-8. 10-8, right there. It says to the
extend that there are no available. . . Wait a minute. Let ' s see.
10-9, right here. The mayor excuse me, 10-9. Second paragraph,
Bob. The mayor may at any time during the fiscal year transfer
part or all of any unincumbered appropriation balance between
classification or expenditure.
Okay. Now the procedure, of course, is, and the argument on
both sides is, that the administration would come before the
Council and represent to the Council that these are the monies
that we need. And these are the purposes for which we' ll use the
76
money. And as a result , the budget has different , what you call ,
line items : equipment , maybe salary & wages , contractual
services, and various different categories of classifications .
And the practical problem is sometimes as you know, even in your
everyday living, it ' s hard to project to the exact number. If you
say that you' re going to buy a car for a $100 and you go out
there , and the car costs $105, now you only got a $100. So the
question is, should you go back to Council and get the $5
appropriated? And you can hear it from department heads. They 'll
tell you the Council will be busy 365 days a year, because every
one penny , or two cents , or five cents over, if you take the
strict interpretation, then you ' ll have to go back to Council
every time, which would certainly hamper the administration ' s
operation.
But on the other hand, now the Council certainly has a
right, and we haven' t litigated it. But I always felt , and I'll
tell you frankly , as corporation counsel, we haven' t had the right
case, but if the Council say had appropriated $100 for a car, and
the administration went out and bought $200. Now, I think now,
that much we all can see , well, if I knew it was $200, we wouldn' t
have appropriated the money and certainly maybe now the Council
should have the say in whether or not the administration
to. . . spend the money for that particular purpose. And so the
question is how much over, should the administration go back and
get Council ' s approval. Well, the. . .that section which says the
mayor may transfer, that ' s the authority that not only myself as
corp. counsel took, but in reviewing. . .before rendering another
opinion, I reviewed all the opinions from the first corp. counsel
which cited that language which would authorize the mayor to
transfer.
However, there is another provision, Mr. Bethea, that you
may see being inconsistent which is because there is. . .in order
for. . .
JUVIK : Excuse me, Ron. Which provision are you looking at?
IBARRA: Yeah. 10-11. 10-11. Okay. The first one was
10-9, the second paragraph that says the may may at any time, if
you have unincumbered appropriations (inaudible) you may
transfer. Then if you look at 10-11, no payment shall be
authorized or made and no obligation incurred against the County
except in accordance with appropriations duly made. So now
Council ' s position certainly is a, you came to us , we appropriated
money, $100; that ' s it. So why are you transferring money against
this provision?
GREENWELL : You and a number of the Councilmen have a
difference of opinion.
IBARRA : Well. . . but. . .that ' s the. . .
GREENWELL: It is value.
77
IBARRA: It is vague. But then again I also look at the
minutes and why each was put in. The Charter Commission, as far
as the discussion, and that ' s one thing I' d like to recommend,
there certainly , in reviewing Charter providions or recommending
new amendments , please , on the record , or on the minutes , please
state why you ' re doing this amendment so that , let ' s take. . .
GREENWELL: (Inaudible) clear enough.
IBARRA : Yes. The purpose , and so when the corp. counsel or
whoever interprets it , they look at that and say , this is what the
intent of the Charter Commission [is] . And so even though it ' s
not expressly stated , we can interpret it that way.
BETHEA : Let me be sure I have this Ron, because I had
looked at this language before. And it was very clear to me from
the first sentence that the second paragraph of Section 10-9, that
the mayor had a right to transfer between classifications or
programs within an agency. I presume that was for administrative
flexibility.
IBARRA : Yes.
BETHEA : What you ' re talking about is that potential
conflict between that and the first sentence of Section 10-11 , .
which prohibits any payment against the County except in
accordance with the appropriations. . .
IBARRA : Yes.
BETHEA: . . .duly made .
IBARRA : Yes. You see, in the government budgetary process ,
you need to have an appropriation. . .
BETHEA : Yeah.
IBARRA : . . .from the legislative branch before the executive
can spend.
BETHEA : You know. . .you know what one. . .occurred to me what
these problems come from. In the old days before we had all kinds
of computers and all kinds of fancy equipment that you could
actually go down line-by-line , you had to make a broad , general
appropriation to a department and then let the department ,
hopefully, administer it and expend it in a reasonable way to
accomplish the objective of the department. When, with computers ,
etcetera, we have given instant access to policymakers to go down
item-by-item, I mean, policymakers, the Council. There ' s a
temptation for them to try to make all of the decisions, the
administrative decisions , about whether what typewriters and all
of this other stuff , because it ' s so easy to recall.
78
GREENWELL : It had nothing to do with computers. It had to
do with the individual authority that the Council wanted. They
wanted to be able to specify. . .they wanted to specify exactly how
many dollars and how many cents were going to be used for a
certain item. They wanted this authority , and I was asked at one
time, would you allow us a blanket approval of an amount of money
for a department. I think that ' s great . Give ' em. . . they. . .the
department is going to need $1 and a half million dollars for the
year, give them that , but they have to live within that and budget
that money within the department, and come out in the end with no
over. . .with no overspending or anything of that kind. I can' t see
the difference (inaudible)
BETHEA : (Inaudible. )
GREENWELL : (inaudible) give them the authority to run it.
BETHEA: I know that that seems to be the rub, or the rub
point between the Council, how far does legislative-making go, to
what detail, etcetera.
IBARRA : The. . .one way to curb that is , and make it specific
that, certainly , if you want to limit the transfer, maybe you can
put in the provision, to be allowable pursuant to the percentage
established by law. So that when you give the Council the
authority to set the amount that the administration can transfer
within accounts up to a certain percentage. Well. . .
BETHEA : All right.
CUSHNIE : Ron, this summer, I think it was June , did the
mayor find a loophole or was he merely challenging that line over
the veto? I think it was in June, he attempted to transfer some
money according to his powers within the Charter. But was it a
loophole he found or was he merely exercising that?
IBARRA: Yes. . .he was merely , and this interpretation. . .and
if you look in the Charter minutes, okay , the Charter minutes
allows, you know, in the discussion, what you can glean from the
record, saying that, you know, we want the mayor to certainly be
able to like balance his books so to speak. And. . .but the minutes
were clear on one account which the administration should not
transfer, and we have not been doing it, is in salary & wages,
because you can see that ' s clear. That ' s easily established,
because everytime you come before the Council and you say , well I
want funding for these positions, and that ' s definite.
CUSHNIE : That ' s encumbered.
IBARRA : Yeah.
CUSHNIE : What was he going to use the money for? Do you
know?
79
IBARRA: I don ' t know what project. . .
CUSHNIE : Maybe it warrants looking into if there ' s an
exception. Something that ' s not encumbered or appropriated that. . .
BETHEA : I 'm not sure that I understand the difference
between encumbered and. . .
IBARRA : There is a thing that Corp. Counsel opinion, as far
as encumbered , meaning a legal obligation.
BETHEA : Where . . .okay. Let ' s face it that , would it be your
opinion that the department needs some flexibility. . .
IBARRA : Yes.
BETHEA : . . .for the funds? Because there can be unexpected
things. There can be overtime for an emergency or something. . .
IBARRA : That ' s right.
BETHEA : . . . like that.
IBARRA : That ' s right, and the reason for that, you need the
flexibility for that , because right now under the Charter, the
Council meets only twice a month; of course , they can meet more if
they need to, but there might be something that arises , an
emergency in the department , and if there ' s no legal interpre-
tation of the Charter, it allows the department head or the mayor
to make these transfers , then again , under the Charter, that
department head by transferring without authority , or the mayor ,
may be subject for removal from office , pursuant to I think it ' s
10-9. . . same. . .10-9, I guess. . .
BETHEA : Well, did you. . .you said. . .
IBARRA: . . .or 10-11.
BETHEA : I have a note, could put limitation on amounts that
can be transferred. . . that ' s. . .
IBARRA : By law, yes.
BETHEA : Well. . .
JUVIK : You can also put it in the Charter.
BETHEA: Yes.
IBARRA : Yes , but se . Keep realizing that inflation sets
in and. . .
BETHEA : But you could do it by percentage.
80
JUVIK : No by percentage. . .percentage.
IBARRA : Oh, that ' s true. You can put that in the Charter,
yes.
JUVIK : Or leave it to the Council?
IBARRA : Yes , by law , or you can put it 15 or whatever
percentage you feel. . .
BETHEA : Do you have any feeling about it? 15% or. . .
GREENWELL : You gave the wording , limited to a percentage
allowed by law. What was the percentage that you had. . .were you
referring to?
JUVIK : No , that ' s (inaudible) .
IBARRA : That ' s the language I suggested .
GREENWELL : Or just. . .we set up percentage of the
(inaudible) .
IBARRA : Yes, by law. You know, the commission sets it up
in the Charter.
GREENWELL : I was thinking it was a statute or something.
IBARRA: No. I just . . .
BETHEA : If you leave it to the Council to set it up , it
would be 100 of 1%. . .
IBARRA : See , that ' s the problem.
BETHEA: . . .of which (inaudible) .
IBARRA : And that ' s why. . .
BETHEA: . . .we ' d have to set our own percentage .
CUSHNIE : But are you also then defeating the purpose in
having flexibility , if there were a catastrophe and Public Works
needed $3 million dollars and they could borrow it temporarily
from wages , are we limiting ourselves by virtue of the percentage?
IBARRA : Okay . There are legal cases . . . I 'm glad you made a
point, and. . .which was never tested yet. And I thought of that
situation where you say borrowing is not a transfer.
JUVIK : Also , I think in a case (inaudible) Council ,
wouldn' t it?
81
GREENWELL: But you' d still have to have authority by the
Councilmen?
IBARRA : Yes.
CUSHNIE : But not if you have a meeting (inaudible)
scheduled and you have (inaudible) at-large , you have to do ten
days ' notice, if they had to pay for something immediately .
GREENWELL : Yeah, if there was a disaster and they needed $3
million dollars , I 'm sure there ' d be a special meeting.
IBARRA: Yes. And they only need one reading of the
ordinance. That ' s the emergency ordinance. That ' s the exception
of the two meetings.
CUSHNIE : So. . .
BETHEA : No, there ' s an emergency ordinance. . .
IBARRA: Provision.
BETHEA : . . .in the meeting. Does that fit in the Charter?
IBARRA: Yes. Yes , there is a. . .
BETHEA : . . .emergency meeting provision in the. . .provides. . .
IBARRA : For one reading .
GREENWELL : There is an emergency ordinance that can be
passed on one reading , where almost all. . .
IBARRA : Section 2-12.
GREENWELL : . . .ordinances have to be passed by two readings.
CUSHNIE: Mr. Ibarra, aren' t you though then weakening your
argument that there should be flexibility? Why else should the
mayor not be able to plan ahead?
IBARRA : I just want to be. . .make myself. I 'm not here
advocating for the administration as (inaudible) the Council.
CUSHNIE : Forgive me for asking you.
IBARRA : I' m just trying to be neutral and point out
the. . .and if you ask me for my opinion, certainly I ' ll give it to
you. But certainly , I don ' t feel I should give you my opinion ,
being the first speaker. And I don ' t want to lock you folks in
concrete. But certainly , that ' s the plus is. . .the administration
should have the flexibility. But the other argument is, you know,
like you heard it said , there ' s no sense you come before us with
82
here every time. But I know if I go to Kona, rather than lose a
whole work day, I ' d rather leave here at 2 . Then it ' s only three
hours out of my work day. But , you know, it ' s up to the
commission.
CUSHNIE : I ' d like to continue ( inaudible) the understanding
( inaudible) Iwashi ' s territory ( inaudible ) discretion.
BETHEA: 4 o 'clock okay?
CUSHNIE : 12 o 'clock. Well, I mean, we can make adjustments
( inaudible) .
L 'ORANGE : The reason I ' d like to meet earlier is that we
can meet longer and it means (inaudible ) to me. I mean, if we
meet twice a month, that ' s eight hours driving plus four hours '
( inaudible) . If we meet once a month, all I got is four hours
driving plus four hours meeting. I save 30% of the time.
JUVIK: I would think. . .you mentioned though, you know, I
would say, perhaps, I mean, there ' s a limit to even how long we
can be in one session, whether it ' s five hours or eight hours or
whatever . I think . . . if we were to want to have extended hours,
perhaps like if we met from three to five, or four to six and then
took a dinner break, and then after a couple of hours, then we ' ve
really spent four or five hours . . . I ' d rather push it into the
evening myself than be here ten in the morning till, you know,
five in the afternoon.
L 'ORANGE : Maybe my schedule is very strange, but I travel
to Honolulu a lot. It ' s the 6 :45 plane . You know, you ' re getting
up early, I mean, everybody' s work schedule is a little different,
I mean, just getting home to Kona at 11 or 12 o 'clock at night is
not my idea of a. . .
GREENWELL: Fun night .
L 'ORANGE : . . .fun night or, you know. The next day it ' s
difficult .
LUM: Mr . Chairman, don ' t they ( inaudible) not possible to
make them per diem so they can stay overnight (inaudible ) if they
want to stay overnight but, is that not possible?
BETHEA: Yes, it is . They can do that to accommodate. . . I
think we ' ve got to consider yet. . .
BIBB: Mr . Chairman, as you ' re considering all of these
hours, the instructions to my staff is that there shall be someone
here assigned to this office, because we have a lot of information
as well as equipment, ectcetera. So we stay to accommodate, so
please consider that for us .
83
GROUP : ( Inaudible. )
BETHEA: Let ' s get rid of this ( inaudible) .
L'ORANGE: Mr. Chairman, to make it simple, why don' t you
set the meeting for 4 o 'clock on the 15th. But let ' s, let ' s think
about this ( inaudible) .
BETHEA: Alright . Is that satisfactory? Is there any other
business to come before the . . .
L'ORANGE : ( Inaudible. )
BETHEA: ( Inaudible. ) All in favor? ( Inaudible. )
IV. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at approximately 7 :10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted.
, 7
R. Marie Ja s
Transcribing Secretary
Attachment 1 : Organization Chart
84
COUNTY OF HAWAII ORGANIZATION CHART
(PURSUANT TO.000NTY CHARTER, COUNTY CODE AND STATE STAiPUTES)
COUNTY 1
ELECTORATE
1 COUNCIL MAYOR j PROSECUTING
ATTORNEY
ICLERK
MANAGING
DIRECTOR
STAFF DEPARTMENTS AUTHORIZE?) BY CO TY .&•
PUBLIC WORKS PARKS & FIRE CORPORATION FINANCE PLANNING RESEARCH & SAFETY
RECREATION COUNSEL DEVELOPMENT
•
•
• DEPARTMENTS AUTHORIZED BY COUNTY CHARTER UNDER..COMMISSIONS*
CIVIL SERVICE POLICE LIQUOR CONTROL '
WATER SUPPLY
( semi-autonomous)
DEPARTMENTS/AGENCIES AUTHORIZED BY COUNTY GIDE/STATE__STATUTE1
OFFICE CIVIL HOUSING & MASS HAWAII
OF DEFENSE COMMUNITY TRANSPORTATION REDEVELOPMENT
AGING DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
oo
Ln
*Departments are under general supervision and control of the Mayor
HANDOUT A •
AN OVERVIEW OF
THE CHARTER AS A LEGAL DOCUMENT
by
Ronald Ibarra
I. HISTORY OF PRESENT FORM OF GOVERNMENT
A. State Statutes, Chps. 46, 50, 52, 62, 64 (p.3)
B. Board of Supervisors
1. Seven members (p.3)
2. Authority over Fire, Public Works, and
Recreation and Hospital Commissions (p.3)
3. Authorized a clerk, auditor, County
attorney, treasurer and Police Chief (p.3)
4. Exercised general supervision and control
of public affairs of County and
subordinate officers (p.3)
5. Chairman was elected official (p.3)
II. CHARTER COMMISSION FORMED IN 1963 (p.3)
A. Authorized legislative branch: Council (p.4)
1. Responsible for public policy making and
1111legislation (pp.4-5)
2. Acts as one body (9 members) with majority
vote
3. Convenes to take official action (p.5)
a) Ordinances - 2 readings (p.5)
1) Create department (pp.22-23)
b) Resolutions - 1 reading (p.5)
4. Appoints County Clerk (p.5)
1. Council should allow admin-
a) Appoints legislative auditor (p.5)
istration ample time to
b) Hires other personnel (p.5) provide info and/or hire
B. Authorized executive branch: Mayor (p.4)
outside consultant (p.35)
1. Veto powers (p.4)
2. Delegates responsibilities to
departments
3. Appoints the Managing Director (pp.5-6)
a) Supervisory powers for Public Works,
Parks and Fire (pp.5-6)
4. All other departments under mayor unless
he gives Managing Director further
responsibility (p.5)
85 . 1
•
1111 5. Civil Service, Police, Liquor and Water
operate under a commission (p.7)
C. Organized by State Statute (p.4)
D. Charter is superseded only by State law
E. Greenwell: Reason for mayoral government is
one person responsible (p.4)
F. Signs contracts (p.35)
III. CREATE SANITATION DEPARTMRNT (p.24)
A. Could be separate from Public Works (p.24)
B. Can be created via Charter (p.24)
C. Can leave structure open and let Council
establish form (p.24)
DEPARTMENTS
1. POLICE
A. Chief
1. Under supervision of mayor (pp.7,9) 2. Reco»nuends mayor retain
2. Powers, duties and functions as required
authority over (p.12)
by commission or law (pp.7,9)
• B. Commission
l'. No authority over daily police functions 3. Recommends Commission have
(p.7) authority to investigate
2. Appoints Chief - administrative head (p.7) wrong-doing (pp.7,9-10) but
not be involved in daily
3. Promulgates rules and regulations on affairs
operations (p.9)
4. Rubberstamps Chief's directives
5.' Members serve a fixed term (p.12) 4. Commission should be liaison
6.' Members appointed by mayor, from various between public and Chief
districts (p.12)
7: Doesn't feel commissioners are responsible 5. Not required by state law but
legally recommends commission
publicize meetings and
a) Employees owe general 'duties- to public commissioners (p.14)
b) Government municipality_generally not
responsible for liability _(pp.15-16)
c) If gives- -wrong info, is 'responsible (p.16
d) If statute or law disobeyed, negligence
S. Comiiiissioners are removed by Mayor and
11, Council concurrence (pp.13-14,27) 85 .2
2. PUBLIC WORKS •
A. Can be terminated without Council approval and
without cause (p.12)
B. Fixing broken equipment (p.39)
1. Needs competitive bids if amount is over $500
2. Can call an emergency and go before Council
3. HOUSING
A. Department
1. Operates by state statute and ordinance (p.22)
2. Provides affordable/experimental housing
(p.22)
3. Sets policies (p.22)
4. Created by Charter (p.23)
B. Council: County Housing Agency
1. Council controls (p.22)
. 2. Carries out policies department sets (p.22)
• 4. WATER 6. Water should remain
A. Department autonomous (p.21) with
separate budget
1. Semi-autonomous (p.21)
a) Own budget (p.21)
2. Under supervision of mayor (pp.7,21)
3. Greenwell: bonds are quality because it
was run as business (p.21)
4. Lobbied in conjunction with mayor's
office (p.21)
5. Appointed by commission (p.7)
B. Commission
1. Members serve fixed terms
5. LIQUOR
A. Director- -
1. Under supervision of mayor (p.7)
2. Processes liquor license applications
3. Appointed by commission (p.7)
'85 .3
B. Commission
1. Members have fixed terms
2. Approves liquor licenses (per state law)
and entertainment permits (p.18)
3. Interprets the state law (p.18)
6. CIVIL SERVICE
A. Director
l.' Under supervision of mayor (p.7)
2: Governed by County Charter and state 7. Should be free of
statute (pp.12,14) political pressure (p.12)
3. Responsible for collective bargaining and
personnel matters and preserving merit
system (p.12)
4. Appointed by commission (p.7)
B. Commission
1. Members appointed by mayor
2. Members serve fixed term
3. Hears appeals from director's decisions (p.7)
411, 7. FINANCE
A. Director .can be terminated without Council
approval and without cause (p.12)
B. Department created by Charter (p.7)
C. Director supervised by mayor (p.7)
D. Appropriations and transfer of funds permitted
between agencies (p.24)
1. Section 10-9 .(pp.24-25)
2. Mayor and departments can transfer funds
3. Appropriates amounts needed (p.25)
a) Additional amounts needed over original 8. Should clarify going to
appropriation must be requested from County for additional
Council (p.25) appropriations; put in
4. Cannot transfer salaries and wages (p.26)
provision (pp.26-27)
5. Council has emergency provision in Charter 9. Greenwell: in favor of
to get funds; 1 reading (p.30) lump-sum appropriation as
6. Council wants more time to work with opposed to line-by-line
budget (p.31) (p.31)
® a) Budget due within 10 days after state 0. Allows County to plan for
Legislature and not later than 05/01 (p.34) grants/funds (p.32)
85 .4
1110
b) Council must adopt by June 30th (p.32) 11. Nishikawa: change fiscal
year (p.32)
7. Contractual services (p.36)
a) Encumbrances spanning more than one 12. Suggested a percentage-
fiscal year'must be approved by Council type budget (p.33)
each year (p.36) 13. Re 7.a), keep flexible
for departments.
14. L'Orange: Can Council and
administration review
budget in December (p.33)
15. Consider reviewing
contractual provisions
(§13-13) (p.34)
16. Council shouldn't dictate
negotiation factors (p.35)
17. Be. able to hire outside
consultants (pp.37-38)
b) Administration authorizes use of
County property (p.36)
8. Bidding procedures (p.39) 18. Update/increase minimum
bidding amount (p.39)
8. PLANNING
A. Director
1. Can be terminated without Council approval
and without cause (p.12)
2. Supervised by mayor (p.7) 19. Planning and water need
3. Department created by Charter (p.7)
to work together (p.21)
4. Honolulu Planning Department (p.23)
B. Commission
1. Bethea: representative of community and
geographical areas (pp.19,20)
9. RESEARCH & DEVELOP 1C1
A. Can be terminated without Council approval and
without cause (p.12)
B. Created by Charter (p.7)
C. Supervised by mayor (p.7)
10. PARKS
A. Director can be terminated without Council
approval and without cause (p.12)
11. FIRE
111/ A. Chief can be terminated without Council approva
and without cause (p.12) 85 .5
1110 12. CORPORATION COUNSEL
A. Director terminated upon approval by Council
(p.13)
B. Department authorized by charter (p.7)
C. Department supervised by mayor (p.7)
13. CIVIL DEFENSE
A. Functions via state statute and ordinance (p.22)
14. AGING
A. Operates via state statute and ordinance (p.22)
B. Provides programs for aging (p.22)
15. MASS TRANSIT
A. Operates by state statute and ordinance (p.22)
B. Provides mass transit to community (p.22)
16. H.R.A.
A. Operates by state statute and ordinance (p.22)
B. Revitalizes downtown areas (p.22)
17. SAFETY
A. Responsible for industrial accidents (p.6)
B. Created by Charter(p.7)
C. Supervised by mayor (p.7)
• 85 . 6