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Another example on this , and I ' d like your comments on, is that Section 10 . 9 very clearly says that the mayor at any time during the fiscal year can transfer part of. . . or all of any unencumbered appropriation balance between classifica- tions of expenditures or programs within an agency or executive committee. So again that would tie in with these earlier provisions that I talked about , that this document at least contemplates a broader range of administrative authority than has been currently exercised because of the County Council willingness to get into all of the details of the budget . And I see that final statement as possibly a conflict between Section 10. 11 , the initial statement which, on page 20 says , "No payment shall be authorized or made and no obligation incurred against the county except in accordance with appropriations duly made. " Now it seems to me obvious that 10. 9 is an exception to that rule. Is that clear to you or maybe I don' t understand what the flap is about? MIZUNO: This transfer problem has been a problem since the past administration, I know, and it I believe it ' s still a problem. We' re still grappling with this and we ' re trying to get Corp Counsel to get . . . issue new rules and new opinions as to the legalities of transfers . I do see this 10 . 11 as a conflict . I believe the problem is that because the budget process is now gone down into the detailed level of budgeting, and that ' s the. . . that ' s what ' s been appro- priated, and the transfers , although they may be legal to make transfers , the appropriation amount was established by Council. It does not restrict transfers. However , the standing of the bonds must be in accordance with that which has been appropriated by Council . And I . . . BETHEA: See if I understand this then. Maybe this is the problem, because I think it ' s one of the functions of this committee to try to. . . this commission, if possible, to try to clear up confusion. What may be happening now is that the Council is getting down to such narrow appro- priations that it raises a conflict as to whether or not the mayor can make transfers between classifications of expendi- tures or programs within an agency. So that in other words you' re saying, that when you get down to these very specific line-by-line appropriations , then maybe that ' s what makes a conflict. MIZUNO: That ' s the cloud. CUSHNIE: Mr. Chairman? BETHEA: Yes. CUSHNIE: If I may just. . . I . . . it seems to me that the key word here is unencumbered. If an appropriation is made 267