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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCHC 1979-07-31 HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER COMMISSION MINUTES 29th Session July 31 , 1979 Hilo, Hawaii The twenty-ninth session of the Hawaii County Charter Commission was called to order at 3: 41 p.m. in the Hawaii County Councilroom, Hawaii County Building, Hilo, Hawaii by Mr. Spencer Kalani Schutte, Vice-Chairman. The roll recorded the following: Present: Mr. Harlan Cadinha (Arrived 4:51 p.m. ) Mr. Richard Ishida Mrs. Amy Iwamoto Mrs. Gloria Kobayashi Mr. Akira Omonaka Mr. Spencer Kalani Schutte Mr. Joseph Trulson Mr. Matsuo Yanaga mkt- yS?s .!_. U l/a,../ O N w JP-4;47-7- Absent 9-4%-77Absent Mr. Kimiaki Sakata and Mr. Herman Sensano Excused: Also Mr. Bill Kikuchi ; The Kikuchi Group Present: Mr. Stuart Oda, Attorney Ms. Frances Higa, Research Assistant Mrs. Joan Carnett, Secretary CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : The County of Hawaii Charter Review Commission shall now come to order. Will the record so note that in the absence of the Chairman Sakata, the Vice-Chairman Kalani Schutte is presiding. APPROVAL The Chair called for the approval of minutes dated OF MINUTES: July 18, 1979 with the following correction : Page 41 . . . .Mr. Schutte statement at bottom of page should be. . . "or how are you going to do that?" Motion was made by Mr. Trulson to approve minutes as corrected. Seconded by Mrs. Iwamoto and unanimously carried. COMMUNI- The following communications were considered : CATIONS: Comm. 83 : Letter from Edward Harada, Chief Engineer, Department of Public Works, dated July 23 , 1979 , regarding assignment of sanitary sewerage system to Department of Water Supply. Comm. 84: Statement of Stephen Yamashiro, Chairman , County Council , dated July 25 , 1979, regarding an alternate plan for the makeup of the council as a charter amendment. Motion was made by Mr. Omonaka to receive and file Communications #83 and 484. Seconded by Mrs. Iwamoto and unanimously carried. BUSINESS CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: We' ll go to the business of OF THE the day. We ' ll have discussion of public DAY: education of the charter election and also continue drafting revisions or corrections of the existing charter. Before I turn this over to Mr. Oda, is there any motion to dispense with the rules of procedure? Or suspend the rules of procedure? MR. TRULSON: What rules are we. . . ? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Let ' s suspend the rules of procedure. MR. TRULSON: In regards to what? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : So that we can discuss any back policies that may have been brought up that do not fall in line with Robert ' s Rules of Order. MR. OMOiiAKA: Regarding the agenda? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Regarding the discussion that may take place on the agenda_ relative to the portions ,that we are drafting now or shall we wait until later, if necessary? Okay, our legal counsel has something to relate to us. SECTION 3-2: MR. ODA: Mr. Chairman and members of the commission. As I stated last week, on the matter of the amendment of Section 3-2, based on the addition of Council Chairman Yamashiro ' s request as a third alternative, actually making it four choices with the present--if you consider the present section of 3-2--when I, with the assistance of Ms. Higa here, started to put together the ballot form, the language of that , it was obvious that it was going to be extremely -2- difficult, if not impossible. so we called the Lt. Governor' s Office and arranged to meet with them on Friday, last week Friday, for whatever assistance could be provided us in drafting the ballot language, based on the latest submissions regarding Section 3-2. Ms. Higa and I flew to Honolulu, Friday, and met with Mr. Tamashiro and a person named Bob Mailer, also of his office, the election office, and another person from the city clerk ' s office in Honolulu. Five of us and we discussed the options that were available to us as I presented it to the commission on Tuesday night, last Tuesday or Wednesday. After very thorough consideration of all possible ways in which to devise a fair ballot provision, none of us could come up with anything that we could consider to be fair or appropriate. On Monday, since I was tied up with other matters, I sent Ms. Higa back to Honolulu to meet with the individual--the ,corporation councsel ' s office in Honolulu, to meet with the deputy who was assigned to assist the Honolulu Charter Commission in drafting the Honolulu'' Charter amendment. n ballots. Ms. Higa spent all day in Honolulu discussing the problems and met together with Mr. Tamashiro and several others who had met with us previously. The only suggestion that they could come up with after thorough consideration of all options, was to come up with three options and all people vote on one of the three options. Not even considering the present provision. However, this is not to say that I agree that this is an appropriate ballot language, or anything like that. Let me try to explain the problems that I see in it based on the suggestion. that was made. (Frances Higa made the following chalkboard presentation) 3 OPTIONS NOT INCLUDING STATUS VOTE FOR ONE : Are you in favor of Option #1? ( 7 man) Yes No ►► ,► ►► " ►► Option #2? (9-0) '► ►1 91 " " " Option #3? ( 5-4) " �► MR. ODA: You will note, Mr. Chairman, that the status quo is not listed as one of the.7options. The reason it is not listed as one of the options is , first of all, and the biggest concern is that if it is listed as an option , what if it doesn ' t get a majority? _ Then even the status quo is subject to serious question if neither of the four options, if the status quo is listed. So we have a built in problem there. Now, so far as the three options up there are concerned, there would be a confusion as to who would be voting for the status quo because it ' s not listed. If you are saying that those who vote for "no" any one of those "no" options are, in fact, saying that they want status quo, that may not necessarily be true. -3- Now, because you have three options, it might be extremely difficult to receive a majority of the votes cast on ,any one of _those options. Therefore, you have a built-in bias in favor of the status quo under this particular method. This is, after much discussion, the best that some of the most experienced and knowledgeable people in this state could come up with. And, even, in spite of all their efforts--which I am very grateful for, certainly they tried to assist us in every way they can--they suggested that this is full of problems. They realize that it ' s full of problems and not, in fact, suggesting that this commission adopt this proposal. However, they did say that the best that the commission can probably do is to bite the bullet and to eliminate two options. Leaving only the status quo and one option to be voted upon leaving the possibility of a clear majority. They strongly recommended that I recommend to the commission it reconsider or whatever the number of options that it has because of the impropriety or difficulty of forming ballot language to conform to the statutory requirement of having a majority approve the particular amendment. I hope you can all understand why this is still a very incomplete proposition. It doesn ' t really change anything from what was proposed previously last week. You still have the problem of majority, which is the most significant one. And, when you imply that people are voting for the status quo simply because they vote no on one of these, that may be a wrong assumption. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. Seeing the problem that has been presented by the three options, I would like to move to amend Section 3-2 to have one option and that is option #3 , as it is now listed on the board, with the 5-4 council makeup. There would only then be the status and one option on the ballot. MR. ISHIDA: Mr. Chairman. Before any second is made, or not, can we have discussion? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Would there be a point of order on this? MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. I believe that we have amended the rules of procedure at a prior meeting so we could do what we are presently doing. A second to the motion would merely get in on the floor to discuss. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Mr. Trulson, it' s my under- standing that the rules of procedure was dispensed with for that particular meeting to accept such testimony. I don ' t think those rules have been suspended for this particular meeting. They would need a majority vote, I think , of the commissioners in which to suspend the rules of procedure for any particular meeting to introduce any past work. -4- MR. TRULSON: That was not my understanding. My understanding was that we had amended the entire rules of procedure for the whole charter and not just for one part of it. If it ' s only for one meeting, then I move that we suspend the rules of procedure again at this meeting to consider it. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : There is a motion on the floor to amend or suspend the rules---is that suspend the rules of procedure? MR. TRULSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : There' s a motion on the floor to suspend the rules of procedure. MR. ISHIDA: Second. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : There ' s a second on the motion. Any discussion? MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. Since this is such a critical item and we have Mr. Cadinha missing, and we ..have Mr. Sensano missing, and we have Mr. Sakata missing, and _.as our rules provide that next week will be the last day in which we can consider anything before final draft, so I would like to move to defer this until our next meeting when we can have all of our commissioners present and then make a final determination as to what we really will provide for in terms of ,,Secti.on 3-2. So I would move for deferment until next meeting. MR. YANAGA: Second. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: It has been moved and seconded to defer discussion on this one particular item, Section 3-2, until the following meeting. Discussion? MR. ISHIDA: I have a point of question on that. The passage of this motion, does that mean I won ' t be able to ask counsel further questions concerning these things? MR. OMONAKA: The intent of my motion is not to take action on this. I guess we can have a lot of discussion but to take formal action is what I 'm concerned with. So I 'd like to see Harlan here, Herman here and Kimiaki. That ' s the only intent of my motion. MR. ISHIDA: I think that ' s proper. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: It has been moved and seconded that we defer action on Section 3-2. Any further discussion? Mr. Trulson? MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. My motion would still be on the floor then. -5- MR. OMONAKA: The motion to defer takes precedence. MR. TRULSON: I 'm sorry, I don ' t agree with Mr. Omon ak a m' CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: The motion to defer has precedence. We may discuss this for any length but as far as taking action on it, it has been deferred until the next meeting. MR. TRULSON: We do have a majority of the members here to vote on any issue. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : That ' s taken into consideration, Mr. Trulson, however, because of it being such a touchy item it was suggested that we have the chairman and the other members here in order to have their input on the question. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Mr. Chairman, would it be possible for me to ask counsel a question? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Certainly. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Regarding the advice that was given you in Honolulu. . . MR. ODA: It wasn ' t advice, it was informal discussion. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Is the problem as has been stated still the majority? We cannot find a majority? MR. ODA: Right. MRS. KOBAYASHI : So a majority, according to the definition you gave us was. . . MR. ODA: Of the votes cast. MRS. KOBAYASHI : So a majority has to be two options, only? MR. ODA: That would result in a clear determination of a majority. Once you have three or four, the question of majority is extremely remote and you, in fact, are saying--in fact, making it practically, statistically, it may be very difficult, if not impossible for a majority vote to come about. MRS. KOBAYASHI : There is no' way the commission could amend the charter to say a "plurality"? MR. ODA: No. It cannot make its own law as it goes along. Unfortunately, or fortunately, one way or the other, depending on your outlook, because the charter has no provision regarding how votes are to be counted, the State Law in Chapter 50-10 and 11 would prevail. It requires a majority of the votes cast at the election for any proposition to be approved. -6- MRS. KOBAYASHI : And the Lt. Governor' s Office does not know of any ballot that was designed to take care of our problem? In the history of Hawaii? MR. ODA: Well , with the staff limitations that they have in terms of, you know, they don 't go back that far, of course, but I think they 're pretty knowledgeable people. They have pulled out some examples of previous elections throughout the state, some of which, you have seen. They even gave me an opinion written by the corporation counsel ' s office in Honolulu regarding the problems that they had with their charter provisions back in 1972. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Excuse me, Stuart, Gloria, is there any discussion on this motion that is on the floor now to defer? If not, I 'd like to call for the question. MR. TRULSON: I 'd like some more discussion. MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. The intent of the motion is that we wish to have the other three commissioners present and to have discussion--I 'd like to have more discussion on this but to take formal action on this thing, I would like to defer. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : I understand. The motion is to defer. Is it necessary for a roll call vote? MR. OMONAKA: Yes, I think so. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : That ' s what I 'm calling for. MR. YANAGA: The motion is to defer until next week? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : That ' s right. Ayes - Yanaga, Yagong, Noes - Trulson Omonaka, Ishida, - 1 Kobayashi , Iwamoto, Absent - Cadinha, Schutte Sakata, - 7 Sensano Carried. - 3 Discussion can continue. Action on Section 3-2 is deferred until next week. If you want to question Stuart some more. You may discuss. It ' s to defer action. MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. The intent of the motion was to stop taking formal action on this matter, but we can have more discussion. We can ask Stuart more questions. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: That' s right. We may ask questions. -7- MR. ISHIDA: I have a question. Stuart, are you telling us--you know,` you put this proposal on the board--are you saying that that proposal can be put to the electorate? Or are you saying that it cannot? MR. ODA: I don ' t particularly feel that it ' s appropriate. That ' s merely an example of what two days of discussions came out with and that ' s the best that about five minds could come out with in spite of the fact that there are quite a few problems with it. They also recognized that there are problems with this and in fact I don ' t think it ' s fair to the group who Ms. Higa and I sat down with to even say that this is their recommendation because they are not making this recommendation. Their recommendation, in fact, was for the commission to go back -to only two options. The status quo and one option. MR. ISHIDA: As far as this commission is concerned, what I want to be very clear here is you are telling us as far as you ' re concerned this is no good? MR. ODA: That ' s right. MR. ISHIDA: So we shouldn ' t even consider it? MR. ODA: Well . . . MR. ISHIDA: i just want it very clear so that there ' s no mistake. . . MR. ODA: For the record, that ' s right. There ' s no question then. I merely put that up there to give the commission an example of what transpired after two days of discussions. MR. ISHIDA: Then, is it my understanding that as far as your recommendation to this commission is going to be that probably the only valid means of sending this issue to the electorate is going to be that there will be two choices? One of which, must be the present system? MR. ODA: I believe so. The reason I kind of am saying it with a little reservation is because maybe there is some genius out there who knows better. i don ' t know. MR. ISHIDA: We have to depend on somebody. We ' ll just have to depend on you. MR. ODA: I just don ' t know of any way that --and I can assure you we spent hours on this thing considering all possible alternatives and with five minds, or six people, coming up with whatever options, and everybody else picking on it and trying to see what ' s wrong with it or what ' s good with it, it really brought home the fact that what may look good, initially, just would not stand under the statute. -8- The initial suggestion that I made last week which was the handout where you vote for the initial question as to whether you want to amend the Section 3-2 and you vote for one of two options, that , in itself, is also subject to some serious problems, as I re-examine those provisions. The reason is, of course, as you pointed out, Richard, that you cannot--this possibility of getting a majority of the votes cast from voting on the options is very difficult. So you are slanting it in favor of the status quo by virtue of that. So even the suggestions made last week , for all practical purposes, are no good. MR. ISHIDA: So all the alternatives that we discussed last week are out the window, then? MR. ODA: Yes. Basically, we have found a case involving this county. Some of you may be old enough to remember this one. Shunichi Kimura, Ralph Kiyosaki, and Herbert Matayoshi versus County of Hawaii and Margaret Kaaua. This was regarding a lawsuit involving the ballot language for the 1966 Charter provisions, approval of the County Charter. They had alternatives presented in the ballot. The basic issue in that case, the basic question in that case was whether. the votes on the alternative provision could count toward the majority of the votes cast. If you consider alternatives as options , here, for discussion purposes. The Supreme Court, in that particular situation held that you cannot add the votes on the alternatives together with -anything else to count toward the majority. It has to be counted separately. So, even reading into that case, I think the assumption we made_last week ,which Mr. Sensano and I both made was actually erroneous. We cannot look at the votes on the options separately and say, aha, you know, they amount to more than 50% and tally up all the yeses on the options. You can 't do that. Each option has to have a majority of the votes. If you have 100 votes in all, in order for option #1 to prevail you 've got to have at least 51 votes on option #1 , itself. According to the way I interpret that particular case. So it presents a formidable drafting problem. One person at the conference--meeting that we had said perhaps because of the number of alternatives or options that we have, perhaps it ' s not even possible to come up with any language. Maybe he' s right. To conform to law. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Is there any other discussion? MR. TRULSON : Mr. Oda, do you feel if thiswas proposed and put on the ballot and say anyone of the options 'you', want or the status of the same. . .this may be just a gut " reaction , it ' s hard for me to say, but, do you think the result could be successfully challenged? MR. ODA: If what were put on the ballot? -9- MR. TRULSON: Say this is put_onthe ballot. (presentation on chalkboard) Okay? One of the four can win. If they say 17 2 , and 3--say, 3 comes out with a plurality. Not a majority, but a plurality. Do you think it could be successfully challenged and defeated? MR. ODA: I have some concerns about doing something like that. First of all , it ' s the fact that you don ' t have status quo. . . MR. TRULSON: What if there was just an additional sentence? MR. ODA: Well , if you put. . . are you in favor of the status quo?. . .what you are,, in fact , doing is-- supposing the status quo itself doesn ' t pass by a majority? Then what happens if none of these get a majority? None of the four? MR. TRULSON : How about a sentence that states if none of these three get a majority, then it remains status quo? If none of the three receive a majority of the votes , the council makeup would remain as is? MR. ODA: You can do that, I suppose. . .but, anytime you have more than two options , the chances of any option getting the majority are extremely rare because you're going to vote for only one. . . MR. TRULSON: That 's what I 'm saying. If the voters know that the majority, not a plurality, a majority, or 50. 1%, do not vote for #1 , #2, or #3 , the status quo is the same. That can be part of our job as far as voter education is concerned. Now, the proponents of either one of those are going to have to do their homework and whichever side prevails, fine. The voters have their three choices. They understand that if 50. 1% don 't vote for #1 , #2, or #3 , the status quo remains as is. MR. ODA: That can be done but we simply cannot put option #4, as status quo. . . MR. TRULSON: That ' s what I 'm saying. That would eliminate that. MR. ODA: What you would , in fact, be doing if you list it, or even if you don ' t list it, you are, in fact, stacking it in favor of status quo because you have three options. It would be a built-in bias for status quo. But, if that ' s what the commission wants , that ' s what the commission will receive. MR. TRULSON: The commission , I don ' t believe, can make a decision on this. It ' s already been voted that it is deferred. So, it ' s really discussion. MR. ODA: Possibly, say, the commission votes to say that any option above does not obtain 51%, or more, of the votes cast, would result in status quo. It can be done. . . -10- MR. TRULSON: That would take care of the one question you had that referred to choice. . . . . . In other words, whether 50% would vote for it? That would take care of that part of the question. . . . . . MR. ODA: The other problem that I see with this is the fact even if you based it dn that fashion, those who are in favor--and there will be people in favor of status quo--how are they really in fact going to express their vote? MR. ISHIDA: What option? None of the above. MR. ODA: Well , if you put none of the above, that ' s option #4. And I think they have a right to express their views like anybody else. I would not like to be a party to any implied or assumed votes, like they did in the Con Con. If you let everybody vote for every option, you can see the problem, automatically. You can 't have every- body voting for every option, yes or no. You' ll never get a majority because every option will have a yes or no vote. There' s no way you can have a majority. If you split 100 votes three ways , automatically. . .the person who votes for option #1 will put no, no, on options #2 and 43, or, likewise, in the others who vote for option #3, vote no on options #1 and #2. So you have twice as many noes as you have yeses and you eliminate each other by virtue of the yes and noes. We thought about having everybody vote for every one and that ' s the kind of problem we ran into. We still have to come back to the majority of the votes for any option to pass. If you use the 100 vote example, how do you --beyond two options, how do you get, hope to get, a majority? It ' s very difficult. MR. OMONAKA: Can we define what is an item? Maybe we can--the first item will be say, 7 and no change, vote yes or no? MR. ODA: What ' s that? I 'm sorry. MR. OMONAKA: The law says now that the majority of the votes cast on any item for charter amendments. MR. ODA: On any proposition. MR. OMONAKA: Can we interpret option #1 and no change as one item? MR. ODA: No. It ' s any proposition receiving a majority of the votes cast in the charter election shall be considered approved by the electors. So if it' s--only 100 votes are cast, if option #1 is to prevail , it has to have 51 votes. This would be considered a proposition, a proposition, a prop- osition. (Each one. ) So you ' re splitting up 100 votes cast into three or four ways. How are you going to get 51 in any one proposition. Statistically, I suppose some mathmetician -11- can come up with all kinds of possibilities but it' s like gambling. I think all of you can see the problem. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Stuart, there has been no other case where options have been presented on the ballot or are they just the one or two? MR. ODA: They have in several samples that you got and I. asked that question to those who were present at Friday' s meeting and the response I got was that, hey, you don ' t want to try that in ' 79. The climate of public under- standing of those things was different ten years ago than it is today and I think they' re right. What happened in 1972, 1976, I think probably will not go unnoticed in 1979. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Tell me something else, Stuart, are these people that gave you this information, the same individuals who designed the Con Con ballot? MR. ODA: No,. the Con Con ballot was designed by the Con Con. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Did they have anything to do with it? MR. ODA: No. They just push the buttons and tally. As I say, the individual who did work on the Honolulu City and County' s Charter elections, said they had similar problems to this. In fact, almost the same problems. But their election was between the status quo and the amendment. The two options. So, it wasn ' t that difficult and they had a charter provision that they had to construe, _not thestatutorial language. So it wasn 't, you know, the kind of problem that we have of the number of options. They had only two options. I regret that I cannot come before this commission with a definite suggestion and say, hey, this is the answer to all" our problems but I might as well be honest, I couldn ' t-- nobody there that I talked to could come up with anything. The more you look into this the greater the problem seems to be because you see more skeletons in the closet the more time you spend looking into it. The intent, Mr. Chairman, is certainly to make a very fair ballot that everyone has a clear understanding of and tan express their desires on without any question as to I wonder if I 'm doing this. . .if I put an x here, I 'm doing something else? I would have to say that more than likely, unless somebody is a greater.'..:genius out there somewhere, as I stated, more than likely the only way available is to have two options. That I can see, anyway. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : And of those two options, one would be the status quo? MR. ODA: Right. Status quo versus either one of these. -12- Even in last week ' s proposal , I had the general question. . . are you in favor of amending Section 3-2?. . .that would be a vote on, the status quo, really. If you say, yes, then the one option is out of the way, right? Then, if you are, what option are you in favor of, #1 , or #2? The problem with that one is you have the same problems with this. The possibility you won ' t have a majority of the vote on the two options. On either of the two options. Because only the people who vote yes are coming down to vote, right? If 51 people voted yes, you are going to have to split up 51 votes between two options. How can you possibly have a majority? And you can ' t have even the noes come down to vote because that ' s inconsistent with what they voted up there. If they vote they don ' t want any change, how can they vote for an option, right? It doesn ' t make sense. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Stuart, the way you had it last week, where you had to answer yes or no on the first part of the question and then come down to the particular section, it does not relieve the majority on the bottom portion of that question? MR. ODA: That ' s right. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : The majority still continues? MR. ODA: Right. I initially thought otherwise but I have to correct myself because after discussion with the County gentlemen and reading the case on Kimura versus C y of options you cannot construe. that options, the vote on the any other way. IRthat particular case, it ' s like they added the votes for one of the o_pfions to the general question to get a majority vote. You can 't do that. Actually, I .tried to add part one and part two to get a majority. Part two was short, you know. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Any further discussion? ;Stuart, unless you have more to say regarding this particular section, before I get back to you, I ' d like to go to Bill Kikuchi. This is in regards to public education for the charter election. Is that all right with you? Bill , did you have something that you wanted to present? MRS. KOBAYASHI : Kalani , you had better explain to him what the problem is we're having with the ballot question. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Bill , have you been here long enough to see what our problems are as far as this ballot is concerned? This is only on this one particular section. I 'm going to give you the floor and you present whatever you have relative to your proposal and we' ll let the commission decide on it. MR. KI_KUCHI : Thank you. To get right into the thing so I don ' t hold you up, what I did was to develop an objective of this education program and I believe your intent -13- is to develop an understandable audio and visual approach for the proposed charter amendments and to develop, , a dissemination program that will reach the voting population of the County of Hawaii. To develop the audio visual we need to interpret the ballot for the proposed amendments in the most simplest manner and to develop support graphics for the narrative. MR. TRULSON: Excuse me, Mr. Kikuchi, could you speak into the mike? I 'm having a difficult time hearing you. Thank you. MR. KIKUCHI : What I did was I developed a short storyboard of what could be used in a graphic manner. What visuals #3 , 4, and 5 represent is the present council and narration would be supportive of the graphics . . . #6 and 7 are graphics and narratives for the creation of a reapportion- ment commission . . . These are the kinds of elements that can be developed for a voter education program. Using symbolic depiction of what is trying to be said so that it could be utilized in the different ethnic languages. Then the utilization of the visuals or the audios could be used for the audio visual slide show that we talked about. It could be used for brochures. It could be used for newspaper supplements and charts. The dissemination of the above elements with the audio visuals could be utilized for meetings, cable television, and possibly county fair booths. The brochures could be utilized at meetings as passouts, county fair, and to be available at the election divi_sion� office. C. Newspaper supplements--Hawaii Tribune-Herald, West Hawaii Today, Hawaii Hochi , or similar. Charts could be used at meetings, county fair, library, other public places. The audio visual economics for the project. The audio visual development would be a 12 minute production utilizing one slide projector and a playback cassette recorder. The reason for that is if we use one slide projector the county owns two so therefore there could be two simultaneous meetings going on. Brochure - contents would be proposed amendments with graphics and ballots. Language translations may be considered here. C. Newspaper supplements - contents would be proposed amendments, graphics and ballot. Provisions to translate into languages will be made. -14- D. Charts - visual development for the above will be enlarged for use at meetings, public display at county fair and other pertinent locations. The total economics comes down $6,500. The above economics does not reflect- printing costs and publication costs. If the total economics for this proposal are not within your budgetary constraints, the newspaper and printing industries pay a 15% commission to recognized advertising agencies, if the agencies make the placement. This could subsidize the further development of this proposal. Timetable. After receiving final ballot form: A. Audio Visual which would include the development of the story board, graphics, narration, synchronization, familiar- ization - 20 working days. B. Brochure - preliminary design and compre- hensive design for camera ready reproduction - 15 working days. C. Newspapaer supplement - confer with publisher ( a) mechanical specifications (b) deadline. Then proceed to develop preliminary design, client review, comprehensive design, client review and then publisher. - 27 days. This would meet your September 16 deadline. D. Charts - 20 working days. Select 15 appropriate visual developments , enlarge for display. There are 15 proposals. If the project is approved and we are to begin immediately and all the aud, ;o and visual elements were to start simultaneously, the following would be achieved.A. Audio visual - August 31 , 1979 ; B. Brochure - August 31 , 1979 ; C. Newspaper supplement - September 7, 1979 ; D. Charts - August 31, 1979. Questions? MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. The counsel for the commission is already working on the publication thing. Are you suggesting that in addition to what they will be preparing, which is required by law, that what you are proposing is in addition to that? MR. KIKUCHI : I would assist him in the develop- ment of the supplement. Utilizing the graphics that we develop for the audio visual. MR. OMONAKA: There is a legal requirement to print everything in the papers. Are you suggesting that in addition to that publication , you want another publication? MR. KIKUCHI : No, I 'm just talking about the audio visual development for the publication. Helping them to compose and layout the design. -15- MR. OMONAKA: I think Mr. Oda, to a degree, has done that already. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I think one thing, if I may make a comment, in talking with Mr. Kikuchi earlier, is the fact that if_ hedid what he can do for us, it would be a consistent message. We would be using the same graphics. When we go to speak and using the slide show, we would be giving the same explanation of what the charter amendments are. When you said based on economics , you said something about your breakdown was-the commission for15% was only for the newspaper costs? MR. KIKUCHI : For printing, or newspaper insertion. So, like if the supplement were to come under my direction and my placement , I would be paid from the newspaper or whoever the publisher may be, 15% commission. . . MRS. KOBAYASHI : If you only do the slide show, what would the charge be? Is there a breakdown that way? And if you were only to do the brochure? MR. KIKUCHI : $2,000 for the slide show. 11 , 000 for the brochure. I have it broken down. I ' ll leave a copy with you. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Bill , if you have a copy of that handy,- you could leave it with our secretary. I 'd like to have it filed as communication so we can refer to it. (Communication #85 ) MR. KIKUCHI : I will leave you three copies of the proposal plus the profile of, my company. Mr. Chairman , may I add a conclusion? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Certainly. MR. KIKUCHI : I would like to commend all of the County of Hawaii ' s' Charter Review Commission for your efforts to assure the voters of Hawaii County of their rights. The importance of the many months of work ;that you have accomplished is now culminating to its most important task and that task is to properly educate the voters of Hawaii County. The charter and its proposed amendments will affect the lives of the people of Hawaii County for many years. It is important;, I believe, to inform the people of this island in a consistent and understandable manner. I thank you for hearing us. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Any other questions that the members may want to ask of Bill while he is here? If there be none, I would like to thank you, Bill , for taking the time to come down here and a presentation so that we can consider it in properly addressing the public. Thank you. -16- MR. KIKUCHI : Thank you for considering us. RECESS : At 4: 42 p.m. the Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE : At 5 : 05 p.m. the meeting was reconvened. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : This commission is reconvened. Let the record show that Commissioner Cadinha is now present. ( arrived at 4:51 p.m. ) Stuart, do 'you have something to add to the revisions? MR. ODA: Mr. Chairman. As a formality, since we have to submit the charter provisions for translation into Ilocano and Japanese, I would request that the commission approve as a final draft--approve the final draft of the charter provisions except for Section 3-2, tonight, so that we can proceed with the translations. MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. I so move to the effect. MR. TRULSON: Second. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: It has been moved and seconded that the final draft ft of the charter be,' submitted to the County Clerk , with the exception of Section 3-2. Are you ready for the question? MR. ISHIDA: One moment, Mr. Chairman. On this second set of revisions that you gave us , we didn ' t go through it page by page, but, you know, there ' s just one typographical error that I know of that has to be changed. If we approve it we are going to assume that we are going to accept it as is, right?. MR. ODA: Well, so faras typographical errors, we ' ll have to make necessary changes. Certainly, I don ' t think this commission is approving typographical errors. MR. ISHIDA: That ' s what I want to be sure of. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : The motion is to the intent? Am I correct, Mr. Omonaka? MR. ISHIDA: I have difficulty in adopting something like this by intent, which is kind of a final draft. MR. ODA: Do you see any errors? MR. ISHIDA: There' s one in Article XIV. In Section 14-2, the; 5th line. . . -17- MR. ODA: We're aware of that. The correction has been made on the original submission to the County Clerk. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : What is the correction? MR. ODA: It should be. . .the council shall by resolution. .shall by resolution. That will be on page 50. You don ' t have a page number on yours? Article XIV. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: The 6th to the last page, I believe. MR. ODA: Second to the last paragraph, 5th line from the top. The latter half of that sentence there after the comma. . .the council shall by resolution. Why don ' t I have Frances Higa go through the typographical corrections and we can all make those and maybe the motion can incorporate those changes. MS. HIGA: i apologize for the errors, first of all . If other options , whatever the options will be, that will be added in , we,' 11 take care of that next time. Under Section 3-3. Reapportionment and Reapportionment Years - Subsection (g) the word "five" has been deleted. MR. TRULSON : Excuse me, what subsection is that? MS. HIGA: Subsection (g) as in girl. The first line of that subsection. Okay, everybody got that? The next correction is a typographical error. That ' s on that same section , subsection (i ) . The last line of that subsection. Reapportionment was misspelled. New Section 3-17. it ' s entitled General Plan. The 4th line. It starts with "county". . .it shall contain a statement of development objectives. . .development was mistyped. The next correction is on the next page, Section 3-18. Mandatory Program Review. The 3rd line from the bottom, the sentence begins with favorably. . .authorize it continuation at current. That ' s another typographical error. The next correction is in Chapter 2. Corporation Counsel , Section 5-2.2. Appointment and Removal. On the 3rd line beginning with "confirmed by. . . .the council and may be removed by the mayor" and the brackets were deleted, the brackets before "with" and on the next line following the word "council" that was deleted. Also on that page, Section 5-2.6. Term of Office was added.:: That was done at the last meeting. -18- Next correction was in Chapter 6, Department of Water Supply. Section 5-6.3. Powers, Duties and Functions. In the last paragraph under that section beginning with. . .in addition , all water. . .the words. . .and sanitary sewerage was deleted. And also on the 2nd to the last sentence of that paragraph the same words. . .and sanitary sewerage. . .was deleted. Also on Section 5-6.4. The next section, Board of Water Supply, under subsection (a) the 3rd line beginning with the word "work" and "sanitary sewerage. " Those three words were deleted. . . and sanitary sewerage. Are you all following me? Okay. The next correction is on subsection (c) of that same section. . .recommend to the county council water. . . and again. . .and sanitary sewerage . . .was deleted. The next correction is on Article XI . Removal of Elected Officers. It has to do with recall. Turn to Section 11-1.6 entitled Recall Election. About midway down through that paragraph, you' ll see the number ( 60) in brackets. The line following that beginning with the word "been." This should read. . .been presented to the council , the word or should be added. And then following. . .at the same time as any other. Okay, did you all follow that? In Article XIII , Code of Ethics. Section 13-3. Disclosure of Interest. Subsection ( a) . we' re on the 4th line beginning with the word "might. " Typographical error on that line. . .might reasonably tend to create. . .should be an e at the end of that. There was the one that Richard pointed out in Article XIV. Also on Article XV, Transitional Provisions. There were two changes. First of all , i believe it was at the last meeting we added ;a new _subsection regarding the Board of Water Supply. That language has been added in there. And also in what appears on your copy to be subsection (c) under Section 15-4, that section reads each county civil service, right now. Go down to the line beginning with the word "when. " It should read. . .when an employee ' s position which has been so affected. . .ed should be added. . . becomes. The last correction is on the next page. Section 16-5 which is in brackets. Referring to Temporary Budget and Capital Program. The word "Program" the PR'°_vvas capitalized and that should be lower case. MR. ODA: That ' s about it, so far as changes. There will be a new Section 5-2.6 regarding the Term of Office of the Corporation Counsel. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Mr. Omonaka, will your motion so include the corrections? -19- MR. OMONAKA: It would include that, Mr. Chairman. MR. TRULSON: Second. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Any further discussion? The question. Ayes - Cadinha, Kobayashi , Noes - None Iwamoto, Ishida, Absent - Sakata, Yanaga, Trulson, Sensano Yagong, Omonaka, - 2 Schutte - 9 Carried. Is there any further discussion on what we have just gone over? Is there any unfinished business? MRS. KOBAYASHI : Mr. Chairman, what about the presentation by Mr. Kikuchi? First of all , before I make a motion , do we have the moneys? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Well , to be very frank, we are out of budget because the printing, etc. , is going to be considerably more than we anticipated. It will be necessary to go out of budget and get additional moneys. To be very frank, Gloria, it does not look like we' re going to have enough money to do, or to make up this slide presentation that Bill presented. However, I can ' t say, for sure until we can get more input as to what ' s available and what the costs are going to be for the printing. We have just a ballpark figure and right now that ballpark figure looks closer to $17,000 of which we don ' t have the necessary appropriation at the moment. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Are you saying we are $17,000 in the hole? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: No, there will be enough money allotted but it ' s out of budget as far as publication and so forth is concerned. I don ' t know if there' s going to be--whether this can be squeezed in._-- Maybe we' re overshooting the cost. We are only projecting cost because Yasuki does not have the definite figures yet so we can get some of this information and get some feelers out for publication. Let me go over a couple of items and maybe I can explain it a little better. Just the interpretation portion for the Japanese is $2,800. That ' s just to interpret it. It has nothing to do with translating it. It does not include the printing. The Ilocano is $2, 700. Now, these are mandatory items that have to be put up. There' s the 19,000 circulation projected for the English version for the Tribune-Herald. It ' s $4, 300. For the West Hawaii distribution--that ' s just the distribution for that in 5 ,000 copies, is about $650. -20- Now, the printing of approximately 10, 000 copies which would include 5 ,000 for West Hawaii and the balance would be for the voting booths, you 're looking at another $500. So what Yasuki is looking at, roughly, is approximately $17 or $18 thousand dollars just for the basic cost of doing the legal printing. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Well , the next question then is what is the possibility of getting additional funds? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : It ' s possible, Gloria. How far we ' ll get to it, I don ' t know. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Based on hjs' timetable, we would need to start right away in order to get everything done . . . and the break down--I don ' t have a copy right in front of me but his proposal is broken down into categories. MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. What would be the procedure to seek additional funds for this work, as Gloria has suggested? And the timetable, whether rejection , or. . . ? What would be the procedure. to get these additional funds and how soon do we know if we' re going to get these additional funds or not? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Well , let me give you an idea of what we had in budget here initially. Publicity. . .there was only $4, 700 provided for that. That was just submitting it from the information we had received at that particular time. Not taking into consideration anything else. We are going over--or we are seeking additional funds presently through the Mayor' s contingency funds to make these additional dollars. It ' s very possible we could fit something like this in and get the necessary dollars to cover it, if I can recalculate this thing and set aside dollars that have been set aside for other items that we have not used which does' not amount to too much. Our legal counsel , no reflection, Stuart , because of the workload we have given to him, is pretty close to what has been budgeted and any override we would have to put towards that portion of it. You can make a motion , Gloria, if that be the wish of the commission. i will certainly do whatever possible to get the necessary dollars if you feel that-= or_ this body feels that they can make use of that audio visual within the time that we 're going to have allotted. MRS. KOBAYASHI : His proposal is a package proposal that can be broken down. It is for a slide show, work on getting a brochure created plus help in getting the newspaper supplement created, plus charts that can be used at a county fair booth or when we are asked to speak at various functions. That ' s the main reason I asked you. -21- I would like the whole package but if we can 't afford it, I ' d like to break it down. If not, I suppose I could make a motion that we approve this package and you find the money. But , you know, that ' s not a very responsible kind of motion. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Thank you for your consider- ation. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Looking at this, the largest portion is of $3 ,000 for the newspaper supplement. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Okay. Can we get some input from the other commissioners before we make a motion on this? Is there :a:possibility of some more discussion in :regards to putting this on and. . . MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman . I don ' t quite under- stand, or really know how we can effectively use what Mr. Kikuchi has presented. I had a very difficult time hearing him. I would have to read the minutes , next week , to know, really,what he said. I heard him mention $6,500. Was that the cost of his package? MRS. KOBAYASHI : That ' s the total cost. MR. TRULSON : That ' s the cost of his package? And included in that was a insert in the paper with. . . ? MRS. KOBAYASHI : No, he would work with counsel in creating the graphics that would make the newspaper tabloid more attractive. MR. TRULSON : Have we requested this of him? Or is this a proposal of his? MRS. KOBAYASHI : It ' s a proposal . I have talked to him. This is all preliminary talk. MR. TRULSON: What I 'm thinking about is using_ $6,500 to develop a video audio program. I 'm not sure exactly how we will use it. Will everybody here have access to it? Whenever somebody calls us to speak? We don ' t know if anybody will call us to speak. I mean, is it feasible? I 'm not speaking against it, I 'm asking questions. Is it a feasible thing to do? MR. ISHIDA: That was going to be my question. Assuming we do get this, how are we going to use it? Because I don ' t think that is in his proposal. MR. TRULSON: Depending on the type of organi- zation that you are talking to. It may be an organization that knows as much of what is happening as the person who is speaking. Do we need it? Who is it geared to? A special group? MRS. KOBAYASHI.: I think we are aiming at a mass kind of thing. Everyone. The idea that he came up with was a package deal so that everything that is--well , I guess we have -22- to decide, do we want--obviously, we need the newspaper supplement. MR. TRULSON: This we've already decided. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Yes, but he ' s saying that to help to make the newspaper supplement something better than just a piece of dry word on the paper, he can develop graphics something like what he showed us today. Also he can maybe take pictures in addition to that. As well as the newspaper supplement, he can develop a brochure that could be coordinated with the newspaper supplement. Something like campaign literature. MR. TRULSON: Okay, new developing these brochures, is the cost of printing included in that brochure? MRS. KOBAYASHI : No, this does not include the printing. He said this is all creative work. And along with that would be the audio visual . So you would use the same kind of graphics and photos, if necessary, in the slide show, brochures, and newspaper supplements and charts. He ' s offering to do four things for us. This is simply the creative aspect. MR. TRULSON: Perhaps some of the other commissioners will have something to say. MR. ISHIDA: I think the problem we're faced with is I think we 're going to need something. We have to do something to disseminate all this information but the problem is this, now, according to Bill ' s proposal , all right , he ' s going to have all of these now. . .the audio visual , brochures, newspapers, charts. . .he' ll have it, but now, where do we go from _there? That has to be taken into consideration before we say yes on this thing. He ' s talking about specifically for the audio visual things you can use for cable television , county fair, brochures, meetings, elections division. . .okay, fine. But, now, who is going to follow up to see that they get used at meetings , or how he gets it to the cable television, the county fair, I think that ' s the link that still has to be determined yet. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I haven ' t ever found out exactly how much the County Clerk ' s Office will do fo us. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Well , Gloria, like I said, the basic fi=gures that Yasuki- is •working on now is just the printing alone that they' re looking at. Right now, Yasuki says between $17 and $18 thousand dollars. Now, if we go this route with this audio visual type of thing, Stuart, is there a legal problem on the language? Does it have to be . . .are we looking at Ilocano and Japanese? MR. ODA: You mean on just the public relations aspect? -23- CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Yes , as far as this audio visual is concerned. MR. ODA: I don ' t see that there is. Not unless you' re going before a group just for that ethnic group. You don ' t promote an English program before a predominantly Filipino or Japanese speaking group. They are not voting on something. Iis merely a promotional mechanism and I don ' t think it ' s necessary to be in Filipino and Japanese. It would be nice but I don ' t see any legal problem with it. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Could I have some more input? Amy? MRS. IWAMOTO: Speaking about the language, according to Mr. Kikuchi , he mentioned that he will be using symbols in his graphics. Symbols are like a universal language. That it would be understood by people of different races who do not speak English® The illustrations that he showed on the charts were in symbols and I think this could be understood by anyone. MR. ODA: I might add, Mr. Chairman, I 'm not pushing any proposal or anything but I think I would like to have an attractive newspaper supplement and we need somebody to help us on the graphic aspect of it. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Have you talked with Yasuki ,' as to how far they' re going to go to set this up? Or is he letting the paper set it up, or are you supposed to set it up? MR. ODA: I think it ' s too much for me to handle something like that because it ' s beyond my expertise, to begin with and the other, I have a question of time, you know. Those two big concerns and I think if we are going to just submit words to the people in the newspaper, is one thing. We 're not submitting news, you know, we ' re submitting something that we want them to read so it has to be in a fairly attractive climate, in a method, so I really do feel that we need some help in a graphic excerpt putting it in a pleasant and attractive supplement to the people. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. It would seem, you know, we ' re faced with time and budget restrictions, perhaps we could utilize Mr. Kikuchi strictly as a! äd in, the supplement instead of going into the audio -visual aid. Perhaps that would be more palatable to the commission. MR. CADINHA: Mr, Chairman. I think it ' s important also when considering the time frame, I think it ' s important that this body approve all the proofs before they go out. Not that anybody would be slanted in the design of anything but to make sure that we have a completely objective PR piece that clearly states what changes are being proposed. That ' s always the danger of something being lost in translation is also there. -24- CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Are you speaking then in favor of it? MR. CADINHA: Whatever this body decides. But I think a consideration that should be made is that the proofs come back here for approval rather than just go to be drafted and finality and we read about it in the paper or see the film clip after it ' s being shown and it ' s not exactly or it doesn 't paint _very clearly` the picture that this commission is trying to convey. That is a problem with going with a commercial artist. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that we obtain the help of Mr. Kikuchi for the supplement which is going to instruct the voters and help the voters on the ballot and that the proofs should be screened by the commission before they are accepted. MR. CADINHA: Is that a motion? It__is?__:;Then I second that. MR. ISHIDA: Is the motion just Limiting to the supplement? MRS. KOBAYASHI : Bud, . what about a brochure? MR. TRULSON: I believe we have a supplement and we don ' tneed a brochure. . It' s my personal opinion. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I think a brochure would be written in everyday terms. Don ' t you think weneed a brochure explaining the amendments? MR. TRULSON: Didn ' t we talk about a brochure originally. I 'm looking at the duplication of effort. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I 'm looking at a brochure as like campaign literature. The newspaper supplement is going to be the charter as is. It ' s going to be very dry reading. MR. ODA: Well , there will be an introductory portion with, hopefully, layman ' s explanation of each provision. It ' s not meant to be all inclusive but, hopefully, at least it gives a brief digest of what is in the formal language of the charter. MRS. KOBAYASHI : How many pages are you using? MRS. ODA: Sixteen or seventeen. Somewhere around there. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Mr. Trulson , your motion is that we accept the proposal of Bill Kikuchi for the newspaper • supplement. That would be under Section C of his proposal here which says. . .Newspaper supplements - contents would be proposed amendments , graphics and ballot. Provisions to translate into languages will be made. $3 ,000. This is what your motion includet? -25- MR. TRULSON : Right and in addition that the proofs should be submitted to us for approval. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: All proofs will be submitted here for verification. MR. ISHIDA: Mr. Chairman , can we at the ,same time seek, possibly, additional funds to finance Mr. Kikuchi ' s proposal in full? So that if it ' s possible then _maybe we can have all these things. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Well , if some of his proposal does include the translation of languages, and - the set up of these things here, then I believe that it would as a result reflect on the proposed figure that the Clerk ' s Office presently has. And it may be lessened by the same amount that ' s put out for Kikuchi. The only thing is for the audio visual is , as you, yourself, stated previously, when is this going to be used within the time scope that we have and will it be used? The brochure, the newspaper supplements, we know, for a fact, those will be put out. Any further discussion? There' s a motion on the floor to accept the proposal of Bill Kikuchi for newspaper supplements. The provision of the newspaper supplements 'would be under Section C of his proposal. . . MRS. KOBAYASHI : Mr. Chairman. May I amend Mr. Trulson ' s motion to say that funds be sought to implement the total package, if available, he could be retained to do all of that. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: The intent of your motion is that if funds are available, the entire package be accepted? MR. ISHIDA: That additional funds will be sought. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Yes, right. Additional funds will be sought. MR. TRULSON : Mr. Chairman. I ' ll withdraw my motion and let somebody else make a new one, I 'm not in favor of that. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Nobody seconded my amendment. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Mr. Trulson has withdrawn his motion. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I move that Mr. Kikuchi be retained to work on the newspaper supplement. I would like to make the same motion Mr. Trulson made. MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman. Wouldn ' t the proper procedure be to seek funds first and should these be available then we can set priorities. I would like to go in that direction. And, of course, in terms of priorities, I think -26- • Mr. Oda pointed out what he' d like and perhaps, Mr. Chairman , we should form a subcommittee and work with Mr. Oda. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : That sounds very good. Gloria, would you chair that subcommittee? MRS. KOBAYASHI : I would be happy to. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: And work with Mr. Oda, the Clerk ' s Office, Yasuki ? MRS. KOBAYASHI : Are you going to give me any members? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Would you like to pick them or shall I volunteer them? MR. TRULSON: I 'd like to volunteer. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Thank you, Bud. Anybody else? MR. OMONAKA: Mr. Chairman, I so move to the effect that we request for additional funds for the purpose of aiding us in publicizing to the general public all of our actions. And have this subcommittee formed and they in turn work with Mr. Oda and the County Clerk and do whatever is necessary within their power that is appropriate. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Mr. Omonaka, just as a matter of information, I already have gone after the additional funds , in addition to what we have here and we are looking at an additional $15 ,000 over and ;above what we already have in the budget. So the additional funds have been tapped, so to speak. I don ' t know if it would be necessary for a motion of that nature. If this committee would investigate, we may be duplicating dollars or costs between the supplement that Bill Kikuchi has presented to us and that which Yasuki Arakaki suggested. And, possibly, with this committee working together with legal counsel and the Clerk ' s Office and Kikuchi , I think we could get some of these dollars shaved off and as a result we may be duplicating. Your motion is that we form a sub- committee, is that correct? MR. OMONAKA: No. Is it my understanding that you have the funds for these additional projects? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Yes, we' re going after $15 , 000 to cover this. Additional to what we have already have supplemented. We have a budget here of $30,000 for this half. That' s already been budgeted. In addition to that, we've gone after another $15 , 000. MR. OMONAKA: Has that been approved? -27- CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Yes. MRS. KOBAYASHI : You told me we didn ' t have enough money. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Yes, Gloria, but what I 'm saying is that includes the total budget. What I 'm looking at, we may have duplication of costs here between Kikuchi ' s presentation and that of Yasuki . Because there are some things in here where I notice that Bill in his proposal makes reference to provisions to translate into languages will be made. That ' s in the newspaper supplements;_ andunder the brochure he has language translations may be considered here and he' s looking at $1 , 000 on that. So, I 'm assuming this now and the only difference down here is in the bottom he says the above economics does not reflect printing costs and publication costs. Well , just the translation costs, you know, we're looking at over $6, 000 just between the translation , see, so we might be able to knock this down. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I second Akira' s motion. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Akira, let me get the basics of your motion 9 again. It ' s to form a committee to supplement? MR. OMONAKA: A subcommittee. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : A subcommittee? MR. OMONAKA: Yes, a small committee. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : To work with the Clerk ' s Office and legal counsel in preparing the. . . MR. OMONAKA: Along with Mr. Kikuchi. Now, I don ' t know what his end of the deal would be in terms of cost. He may decide, hey, under those basis, I don ' t want to come in. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: So your motion is just that a subcommittee be formed? MR. OMONAKA: If we have the funds. It was my understanding that we didn ' t, so we would request for additional funds for the purpose of dissemination of information to the public. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Is there a second to the motion? MRS. KOBAYASHI : I seconded it. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: It has been moved and seconded that a subcommittee be formed to disseminate information to the public regarding charter amendments. Get ready for the question. MR. OMONAKA: Question. -28- Ayes - Cadinha, Kobayashi , Noes - none Iwamoto, Ishida, Omonaka, Yagong, Absent - Sakata, Trulson , Yanaga, Sensano Schutte - 2 - 9 Carried. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Gloria, will you chair that subcommittee, please? And, Bud Trulson , and Amy, would you help in that? Is there any other unfinished business? MR. OMONAKA: You know, coming back , Mr. Chairman , regarding Mr. Cadinha' s concern about how language will be prepared and I think Mr. Oda has been with this commission and he understands the intent of the commission. So, if we get into an area that ' s kind of grey, I think the committee should report back. Otherwise, do you want to look at everything that goes out prior to publication? MR. CADINHA: I personally would. MR. ODA: I have no problems with that so long as we have the time. I hope we have the time to do it. I have a little bit of concern about that. When you say, proofs , are you talking about newspaper proofs? Do you want all those things brought in for approval? Is that what you are saying? MR. CADINHA: Let ' s go back to the full-on proposal. We have a slide program, right? And we have a:pamphlet. Audio visual - 12 minute production utilizing a slide projector. Brochure - $1 , 000. Newspaper supplements, Charts - some of the visual developments for the above to be enlarged. . .at meetings public display at county fair. . .The above economics. . . Okay, how do you graphically, or through the use of audio visual media explain. . . let ' s take a controversial subject, the districting or the water function? You can present the same alternative in two different ways and one would be a very positive way and one a very negative way. My concern is just that I would like to see what ' s going to be presented. MR. ODA: Oh , you 're primarily concerned about the audio visual aspect? MR. CADINHA: Yes, I don ' t think any language is going to say, this should be done or this should not be done. That ' s not it but 'once you get into this translation of the hard work and months - that we' ve put in here for consumption using pictures , using artists ' license, if you will , I have just gone through several brochures and publications, things like that and I have some experience in it and I know some of the things that come out are not what you intend when you submit it. When it goes into the mill . And I 'm being a little bit of a Dutch Uncle in wanting to see this stuff before it hits the press. -29- MR. ODA: The subcommittee, Mr. Chairman, is to do what? What is their duty, specifically? Their duties are specifically CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : p y to work with you and with the Clerk ' s Office and also Bill Kikuchi to program this thing out. Because like I said , Yasuki may be working on the printing or the language of translation and if, since Bill is involved, or may be involved with this, some of his provisions, or his proposal here includes translation. So what I 'm saying is instead of duplicating efforts , _if this subcommittee would work to coordinate the efforts. MR. ODA: Among other things , the subcommittee, I presume, is going to kind of give input as to format of the supplement and how the thing is to be arranged with the assistance of whoever else is available? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Yes. MR. TRULSON : Mr. Chairman. Maybe I misunder- stood the whole thing, but my idea of the subcommittee was the feasibility of this entire program. Now we 're talking as if we 've already adopted it and how we' re going to do it. The motion was , to my understanding, was to see if we are going to use part or all of Mr. Kikuchi ' s program, or none of it. Not how we were going to implement it. MR. OMONAKA: Well , the intent of the motion was to authorize the subcommittee to disseminate information regarding charter amendments and, obviously, they are not to duplicate work with the Clerk ' s Office. They do what they feel is right in terms of developing a. . . MR. TRULSON : We have not, as a commission, agreed to adopt any of Mr. Kikuchi ' s proposals. MR. OMONAKA: We are so authorizing the subcommittee to do that. MR. TRULSON : To do that or to study the feasibility and come back to this commission with what we think? MR. OMONAKA: The intent is to authorize them to, as a subcommittee, to work out the program. MR. TRULSON : I could not serve on a sub- committee to implement something that I disagree with. I 'm sorry. MR. CADINHA: Mr. Chairman. Could we reconstruct the motion? Mr. Omonaka' s motion? Thp verbiage? The exact wording? No, I 'm with you, Mr. Trulson , I didn ' t understand that. -30- MR. OMONAKA: The intent is that if we have enough funds , and my original understanding was that we did not have. - So the motion was to seek additional funds and if these funds are available, we have a subcommittee formed from within the commissioners here and they, in turn , work with Mr. Oda and with the County Clerk ' s Office and do what- ever is necessary to go out and publicize the amendments that we have worked on for the charter. MR. CADINHA: How much money are we . going to spend on this? MR. TRULSON : That was not the intent of my original motion. Mr. Omonaka, what you're saying then , in effect, is that we are adopting the plan and it ' s up to the subcommittee to go out and do it? MR. OMONAKA: . . . MR. TRULSON: So, what you ' re saying is--the way, I understand you is that we ' ll go out and we' ll avoid duplication but with the implication that we are going to take the proposal and pare off what we don ' t need. MR. OMONAKA: Whatever is necessary. MR. TRULSON : The motion then is actually two. We are a subcomittee and also we've agreed we are going to use Mr. Kikuchi ' s proposals and pare it down. MR. ISHIDA: Mr. Chairman. Bud, isn ' t it , in essence, that you_ ae talking about the same thing? The committee has to determine whether it ' s feasible or not. If it ' s feasible, you can go one step further, whether how you would like to do it. MR. TRULSON: I thought the committee was just going to study to see if it was feasible, _period. If it was not in total or in part, then they come back to this commission. I didn ' t realize that we were going to accept it and then go ahead and work on it. That ' s my misunderstandingof the motion. MR. OMONAKA: That is because we don ' t have that much time to continuously to meet to review every draft of document that d8 going to go out. 1`R. CADINHA: Mr. Chairman. How much money are we allotting for this? It seems rather openend.ed at this point. Do we have any idea? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: What we 're looking at is a proposal by Bill Kikuchi, that would not only present the audio visual production but would also produce a brochure that would contain amendments of graphs and ballot design and language translations, newspaper supplements. The contents would be proposed amendments, graphics, provisions to translate -31- it into languages. He suggests, or proposes, a number of items that would essentially have the end result of public information. But, in addition to that, some of his proposals lapse into the responsibilities that the Clerk ' s Office is undertaking. As a result, certain costs, and, as an example, I give you the translations, the language translations, these costs are included in projections.. that the Clerk ' sOffice are making but it ' s also included here in the portion of the proposal that Bill Kikuchi is making and for considerably less money. So, I believe, the intent of the subcommittee was to coordinate the efforts of what, legal counsel and the Clerk ' s Office with what possibly Bill Kikuchi can provide as to coming out with a ballot design, the newspaper supplement that ' s proposed and it ' s just a coordinating committee of this commission. Legal counsel feels that he can put in the necessary_ legal: language but does not have the expertise to do the supplements or the design of the supplements that will be circulated to the public. He feels he needs the expertise of someone like Bill Kikuchi that could do that. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. I somehow have erroneously got the feeling that we're paying $6,500 for ideas. A brochure v contents would be proposed amendments with graphics and ballot. Language translations may be considered. $1 ,000. But that doesn ' t include the printing costs and publication. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: That ' s true. MRS. KOBAYASHI : It ' s artwork , ideas and wording. Who' s going to do it? Is the commission going to do it? MR. TRULSON: If you're talking strictly on artwork, is the commission going to do it? I would think not. MRS. KOBAYASHI : I don' t think we would be doing the wording either. MR. TRULSON: You mean like the ballot, or the. . ? MRS. KOBAYASI: No, not the ballot, the laymen ' s language. MR. TRULSON: Of what? MRS. KOBAYASHI : , On explaining what the ballot means. MR. CADINHA: Okay, basically, then the intent of your motion was to give the responsibility and authority to the committee to go ahead and do this function however they determine it was best done and at whatever cost they wanted to do? Is that correct? -32- MR. OMONAKA: The alternative to that would be that this commission would have to meet anytime anything is published to go over the documents , if that ' s your concern. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Would it be proper then , Mr. Chairman , for me to make a motion that would give the subcommittee authorization to spend up to $3 ,000 in getting the newspaper supplements created? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Gloria, I think that right at• this particular time that is very vague as to whether that is going to be enough. If we are looking at what Bill is proposing and we are willing to take that as a figure, if that ' s what we 're looking at , that ' s one thing. But is it? Bud ' s earlier motion was that this particular portion be accepted for $3 ,000 for that particular Section C of his proposal which covers newspaper supplements. Contents would be proposed amendments, graphics and ballot. Provisions to translate into languages will be made. Stuart , are you under the impression that this section here, that Bill has proposed, would take care of what you' re trying to get accomplished regarding the supplement? MR. ODA: It seems to me it might. I 'm not sure. I 'm not absolutely sure, but I think it does. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Well , you know, this same section here, Yasuki is working with the printing people and they' re doing the same identical thing. MRS. KOBAYASHI : No, but who ' s getting the finished copy to the printers? MR. ODA: Yasuki is only working on printing costs only. That ' s all. MRS. KOBAYASHI : And Stuart ' s only working on the legal end, the legal language. Who ' s going to make the thing- flow so you can read it? And it will look decent? That ' s what Mr. Kikuchi does. I don 't think you can expect the commissioners to spend the time to create headings and pictures and do graphics. I suppose that ' s why the subcommittee was formed. I don ' t think we can do very much if we don ' t have any money to--or any authority to hire someone to do it. I would like the authority to hire Mr. Kikuchi, but I cannot hire him if I don ' t know to what extent I can use him. So, if at ths5time I could. . .if you would give me the authority to use him for the newspaper supplement and up to $3 , 000, it would help. At least the subcommittee could get something off the ground. And of course we will look into any duplication of efforts. If somebody else is doing it, we won 't. . -33- MR. CADINHA: Mr. Chairman. How much money do you have budgeted? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : We have a total budget for this session of $30,000. .If you want me to be very specific and itemize what we have allotted for publicity, that has been allotted on this budget. . .it ' s only $4, 700. We have got an addition $15 , 000 out of the mayor' s contingency fund, if we so need it. MRS. KOBAYASHI : But the $4, 700 did not include printing. Was that supposed to include printing? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Newspaper printing. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Out of the $4, 700? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Yes. Now, this was taken from a projection that was made by the mayor' s office. Just that $4, 700 was on the newspaper printing. It does:. .not include anything else. So as a result, there' s an additional $15 ,000 that the mayor has appropriated. The fact that it ' s available does not mean that it ' s. . . As of today, okay, let ' s put it this way. . .as of July 20, there is a balance of this session of $28,899. 76. Now if you want me to tear this projection apart'_t&: come_ .up, with a figure of what you can work with, then I ' ll do it. But what I 'm trying to get across is because there is money available, it doesn ' t mean that we have a carte blanche situation where we can just pull on anything that happens to be handy at the moment. That ' s what I 'm trying to say. MR. _CADINHA: Mr. Chairman. I would like to move that the committee be given authorization for spending $4, 500 for the purpose of highlighting the charter proposals, the changes that we have and getting the appropriate artwork and all the other stuff that they see fit. When their thoughts are finalized, I would like it part of that motion that the final product would come back here just for a quick review. If nobody else wants to be here, I will. At least they have perimeters set and I think $4,500. . .Gloria, can you live with that? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Mr. Cadinha? $4,500 for what? I ' ll specifically put itin a motion. MR. CADINHA: Specifically, that ' s their financial guidelines, this committee, that they can go out and spend. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: $4,500, specifically for what? MR. CADINHA: As they see fit. PR campaign. However they want to do it. For graphic illustrations, or a supplement for delivering a message. . .that gives them a perimeter. -34- CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Would that be for dissem- ination of information to the public? MR. CADINHA: Yes. MR. ISHIDA: I ' ll second the motion. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : It has been moved and seconded that this subcommittee be authorized $4,500 to be used for dissemination of information to the public. Any discussion? MR. ISHIDA: One simple question. According to your figures now, do we have that money? Yes or no? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : You didn ' t hear me. I said we had $28, 000 as of 7-20-79. MR. ISHIDA: Yes , but most of that is appro- priated , isn ' t it? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : I also said that if you wanted me to tear this whole proposal apart , I would. And give you the balance in dollars and cents. But, I don ' t know, I 'm just telling you what the balance is. MR. ISHIDA: No, you' re the one who would know more about the balance than we would. What do you think? Do we have that money to authorize them to spend? CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Don ' t ask me such a blunt question. How am I going to answer that? As of this day, this is what we have. Gloria, if you are in there first, you have $4,500. Any further discussion? Do you know the intent of the motion? Ayes - Cadinha, Kobayashi , Noes - None Iwamoto, Ishida, Omonaka, Yagong, Absent - Sakata, Trulson , Yanaga, Sensano Schutte - 2 - 9 Carried. Is there any other unfinished business? MR. CADINHA: Discussion. Mr. Trulson, are you still on the committee? MR. TRULSON: I resigned, I think . Yes, I' am. -35- • CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE : Any further business? Mr. Oda, Tuesday, August 7, at 3 : 30. Is that all right? MR. ODA: Next Tuesday is one of the Tuesday' s I can ' t be present. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Tuesday is when you wear the other hat. What about Wednesday? MR. ODA: Yes, Wednesday is all right. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Next meeting date will be Wednesday, August 8, at 3 :00 p.m. , Hawaii County Councilroom. There being no further business , the meeting will adjourn. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman. Before we adjourn, one question for counsel. The subcommittee meeting, does that have to be in a formal meeting. . .regarding the Sunshine Law? Any decision will come back to the commission. MR. ODA: Meeting with the printer and working out details, I don ' t see any need for that. CHAIRMAN SCHUTTE: Okay. Yes, 3 :00 p.m. on Wednesday. Not Tuesday. 3 :00 p.m. , Wednesday. ADJOURNMENT: At 6: 20 p.m. the meeting was adjourned. Next meeting date - Wednesday, August 8, 1979 , 3 :00 p.m. , Hawaii County Councilroom. / • /Joan Carnett RECORDING SECRETARY -36-